Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

All,

I finished my ORCA 17 and floated it yesterday. It was very tippy, becuase I don't know much about kayaking!!! After reading up a little today I took it out and had a great time. It wasn't near as tippy and I felt very comortable in it. Now it seems pretty stable. I will take it out and roll it in shallow water with someone near by (want to see what that is like and get convidence I can get out if I inadvertantly roll). I have some pictures but I don't know how to put them up on the board. Right now it is all white. I figured before I took the time to give it a nice paint job I would get the scratches and dents from learning out of the way first. I built it qucikly and cheaply. I used West epoxy and exterior 1/4 inch plywood. I have both bulkheads in and I glassed the bottom and the top. It is kind of heavey, but built like a rock so I have a lot of confidence in its' ability to handle this beginners rough handling. For me it seems to paddle quite easily, so I am very pleased with the design and how it turned out. I also built my own rudder pedals and rudder. When I figure out how to put pictures up I will post them.

Ken[/img]

Would love to see pictures. One important tip for when you roll it, don't panic, and when you exit upside down, slide out as controlled and smooth as you possibly can, otherwise, you're likely to get a real bad bruise across the thighs.

can you get back in if you roll? or is this boat capable of an eskimo roll? i'm curious because i was going to build one for fun, but i would also want to play arould in the coastal waters.

I would say you can definatly roll this kayak back to the upright and seated position, there may be some boats that are difficult or impossible to right such as some sit on tops or hybrid type kayaks. It's very important skill that eskimo roll thingy but once you get the technique righting yourself with just your arms should be no problem (great if you lose your paddle). Getting back in can be a little tricky in deep water(after you bail all the water out).

Bob

I have the pictures on my computer now, but I don't know how to post them here. As soon as I figure out how to set up my web page on cox.net I will do so and post them.

Ken

I've seen a lot of S&G kayaks but never one made from anything as heavy as 1/4". How about giving it a ride on a bathroom scale so we know what "kind of heavy" really is. I only weigh 143 so anything over 55 lb. is out of the question.
Charlie

The designer, Evan Gatehouse, specifies 4 mm or 6 mm.
Experienced kayakers should build the light version but if this is your 1st kayak, it makes sense to build her with the thicker plywood.
You have the choice.

And some 6mm plywood is heavier than others (like BC pine) v.s. okume


As far as rolling, you will need:

1. Well braced thighs. Closed cell foam (Ethafoam backpacker's sleeping pads work well) glued with contact cement to the underside of the deck. Shape to suit your thighs.

2. A spray skirt (so the boat doesn't flood)

3. A mask while learning so you can see what you are doing

4. A friend to re-right the boat when you blow the roll.

Try to find a description of the "extended paddle roll". Whitewater boats, with small volume and lots of rocker roll easily. Sea kayaks do not and require a bit more technique. Your hip-snap matters - the boat has to come up first and your torso should follow along later.

I know how to roll but always intended to use a paddle float to recover and re-enter. It's much more reliable I think in real world conditions.

Check around your local paddle sports shops. They'll have the locations of rolling lessons....usually in an indoor pool with instructors, which is the best and safest way to learn the technique.

If you're an oaf like me, you'll get the technique but still need plenty of practice to make it work consistently.

If you're in shallow water, as in less than 5' deep, add a WW helmet to the list of items required. Practice your re-entry too.

All,

Finally figured out how to get pictures up. I put some in a gallery called Orca 17. I think this url will work: http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=12473

Forgive the paint and finish job. Didn't want to spend too much time on that until after I learned how to kayak.

As a beginner's it seems to be pretty good. My 16 year old son tried it Saturday and did great. Better than I did!

Ken

You did a nice job! How did you experienced the building time. I hope I'm able to float my V12 in a couple of weeks.
Have fun!!

Nice!

My orca is 'waiting' for couple weeks, work and travel stuff.

About the weight:

4mm okoume weights about 2 kg/m2
6,5mm birch weights about 4,4 kg/m2 (4mm 2,7 kg/m2)

So using exterior 6mm plywood might increase the weight a lot compared to 4mm okoume. Wood fibers tend to hold moisture quite well, so in humid places the plywood would be even heavier (moisture also lowers the plywood's strenght).

---edit---
Just a quick addition: My hull plywood pieces are weighting 17 kg's now. The seat opening is not cut and deck panels are still oversized (mostly ~5 cm or so).

Nice to see it floating. Looks good with the knuckle out of the water when empty.

I weigh close to 200 pounds with clothes and gear, so if floating with the knuckle (whatever that is?) above water when empty with me sitting in it is a good thing, that's good. I think the boat is close to 85 lbs, which is pretty heavy. The exterior plywood and the figerglass expoy coating, my first try, ads up. It paddles real well and I am very pleased with it, even if it is a bit heavy. It slices through the water pretty effortlessly, but I'm a beginner so I probably don't know what real performance is. I took it out a bit more towards the bay, the Cheasapeke, in 15 knot winds and played in the waves a bit on Monday. Didn't even come close to getting rolled or anything like that, so I feel pretty confident with its stability. It seems like a very good design and was very easy to make. My thanks to the desegners and providers of the very affordable plans.

Ken

What type of exterior plywood did you use? If it was BC type pine I wouldn't be too surprised about the weight.

4mm Okume is 13 lbs / sheet

Douglas fir 1/4" is about 26 lbs / sheet

Longleaf Yellow Pine 1/4" (common to Eastern/Southern US) is about 33 lbs / sheet.

You can see that with 3 sheets of plywood, weight differences between types of wood really can add up. However, you should take heart that a heavier kayak is more stable than an empty one, so a kayak built from 4mm okume will feel a bit more tippy than a heavy one like yours.

Evan,

I am ordering a set of plans for the Orca you designed...I am having a hard time finding Okume here in Norfolk Va and shipping really increases the overall cost of the wood...given my situation what alternative would you recommend? I do want a stronger lighter Kayak...

Also.,..do you know if Jacques is open for business post Frances? I have a money order made out to him and am waiting to hear whether he's open for business before I send it...

I used BC pine bought at Lowe's. I also glassed the top and bottom, seems like overkill now, but the fiberglass made it much easier to get a smooth finish verses the wood on the sides. I built it mainly to exercise with and maybe do some kayak camping on occasion, so being a little heavy is okay by me.
I think if I build another one or anything out of the exterior plywood I will run the planks through a planer and take off just enough to make it smooth and skip the fiberglass covering. I used the spray shield today and it worked good. If I can just figure out how to get in and out without getting wet or tipping over, I should stay pretty dry.


Ken

I've had my Orca out on the bay a few times now. I built a longer rudder. The kayak is pretty long and in the waves the stern comes out pretty quickly. If you get a bit of turn going you end up getting really turned by the wave. The bigger rudder should help. I've also got a spray skirt, which is nice to use, a pump, apaddle float and a spare paddle. I also have a rod hloder to do some fishing. I will go for a longer trip before the water gets too cold.

Ken

Boat plan on line is up and running. All is well. I received my orders couple of days ago.

Got my plans the other day...cant wait to get started......

hey fellow boaters i am 21 and i am building an orca 17 kayak for a school wood project. so far i have all the pieces cut out and everything is going great. I am going to continue work tomorrow on it and try to get everything stuck together with in 3 weeks. i am really liking this company they are so helpful and nice. the tutorials are simple and easy to understand and makes everything a breeze. so anyways about the wood topic. i purchased 4mm ockume plywood from canada at a pretty good price then the only thing that got me was the shipping it was about 40 dollars but i got exactly what i needed. you can look at this place called NOAH'S i am not sure what their website is but that is where i found marine plywood. being a youngster i am looking forward to trips and ALOT of them over the next 5 years or so. so i am trying to make the lightest kayak but that is strong aswell. since portaging SUCKS when you have to carry a really heavy boat around. i am a rather strong guy but i would like to make my life as easy as possible trying to make this kayak as easty to move around as possible. i don't know if i could handle the 85 lb kayak that is like having another member of the family or something. but i am glad to hear that you really enjoy it. i am an experienced kayaker so being really light shouldn't be a problem.

My ORCA will probably never be taken on a trip that requires portage. I'm not that strong! I'm planning on building a strip built expedition kayak for trips like that. It will be as light as it can be. This ORCA works well for me here in the Chesapeak and I'm looking forward to doing some fishing in it, too. We'll see how it does when I take it out on the ocean. I think it will do fine.

Ken

With 4mm okoume it will be about 45-50 lbs. First time builders tend to use more epoxy and do larger fillets than they need so make sure you build only small fillets (about 3/8" radius) and only wet out the fiberglass cloth till it is saturated (you can do this on a piece of 4mm plastic drop cloth material and then peel it up and place it on the seam)

For portaging can you use a small 2 wheeled carrier? - I used to use one when getting my kayak around, but your portages may be over rougher ground.

Beach wrote:I am having a hard time finding Okume here in Norfolk Va and shipping really increases the overall cost of the wood

Beach,

If you don't mind a long drive, you're within driving range of a marine plywood supplier in Annapolis, MD. Since they also sell other stuff that competes with Jacques I won't name them here, but if you go to my website and see where I bought the wood for my CC14, that's them.

Laszlo

All, just wanted to give an update on my Orca. I have fitted it with a rod holder and have been doing some fishing with it. I have taken it out in 2 foot waves in 10-15 knot winds and have had no problems. It will surf the waves, but if you get a little sideways it gets turned quickly. When I take it to the beach and the rolling waves there I fully expect to get dumped.
I am still very pleased with the kayak and can recommend it. It went together very easily and although I built it heavey I am pleased with the performance. I use it to execise twice a week and have found it to be the most enjoyable form of exercise I have ever tried. My arms are getting stronger, too!

Ken

It will surf the waves, but if you get a little sideways it gets turned quickly. When I take it to the beach and the rolling waves there I fully expect to get dumped.

A couple of hints when in surfing conditions - be agressive and forceful with your paddling. Expect and anticipate the wave that will tend to turn you, lean into it a bit, and dig with your paddle.

Surf landings are a skill like anything else. Start with beaches that shallow gradually; the breakers there are more gentle. Steep beaches produce "plunging" breakers that break all at once in a more explosive fashion and should be avoided until you get better. Paddle fast for the beach, and get out quick before the next wave hits. Keep the boat straight in the waves or you might go for a swim.

And as far as your arms, try pushing more with the upward arm as well as pulling with the lower arm closest to the paddle in the water. Let your triceps do some of the work.

Just for info, try to weight the kayak . You can use a usual "person scale" weight yourself an then take the kayak to your shoulder and weight again.

My orca (birch plywood) weights now 26,6 kgs (58,6 pounds). It's missing the seat and paint & varnish. I also did too big fillets and wasted more epoxy than I should have.

---edit---
It's funny how the small things adds weight, like my cockpit coamings (from plywood) weights 735 grams (1,6 pounds) without epoxy or tape. I guess the foot rests are weighting a pound or more. It all piles up...

I thought I would give a quick update on my ORCA and maybe hear from some other builders. I have used the kayak twice a week at a minimum for the last few months. It is very stable and I am very confident in it. I have caught a few strippers fishing with it, but one got away because as I took the hook out it started flipping around on the deck and I couldn't catch and stay upright. I haven't dumped once in it, excelpt on purpose. I am going to scale down the plans so that it is 16' long, so I only need one joint using two pieces of plywood. If I need to buy another set of plans to build another one I will. I'm am going to use 1/4 exterior plywood again, but this time I am going to plan off a little to make it smooth and a bit lighter. I am only going to tape the seams, using much smaller fillets and that is it. I will use latex primer to seal the wood and them paint it with exterior grade latex paint, instead of covering it with fiberglass. I am trying to build it as cheap as possible and get it as light as possible, also. Mainly just for fun and to see if it works. If it doen't work out, I won't have much invested anyway. I'll report on the results when I get it done. That might be awhile, because I am finishing a CLC three placer and am going to build a Surfyak with my son, after I fininsh the eight foot foldable kayak2 go with my other son. I think I have got the building bug.

Ken