Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Hello,

I have been lurking this site for a bit, we decided to build a GV10 to see if we are happy with the product and really our own ability. If this works well I am leaning towards a PH22 to replace my current boat. The GV10 has been ordered and me and my 9 year old son are excited to start on “his boat”. We ordered the CNC kit and the silvertip epoxy, I figured I would order it like I plan on the PH22. I am sure I will have a million dumb questions, but the “read first” section of the forum should be a big help.

Thank you
Scott

Scott, welcome to our Builders Forum!!! We very much look forward to watching you and your son build his GV10!!!! Jeff

First welcome to our group! Building with your son will be a great thing to do.

As for the dumb questions the only one is the one not asked. You might get two different answers on some things but that does not mean either is wrong. More than one way to skin any cat. When you really need help as the designer and get his answer. That is the great thing about this site, you get it from the man

It'll be a terrific father/son project he'll always remember and I look forward to seeing pics of it progressing. No fear regarding your ability: goofs and recoveries are great confidence builders. Off hand I can't recall any mistake I didn't make. Eventually I coined the term "Dougstered", meaning did it wrong, went oops, and did it over better. I bet a lot of great things happen that way.

Dougster

Welcome! And the only dumb question is the one not asked. You might want to buy a couple of yards of 6oz biax to apply to the bottom to get the feel of applying it for your PH22 build. You will be applying a lot of 12oz biax to it.

Have fun building the GV10 with your son.

Tom

Hi,

Read the tutorials about how to lay out panels at a bare minimum:

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... w-them.pdf
https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... -frame.pdf

The big one is a must read too:

https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... ue-101.pdf

And some of videos at the bottom of the page:
https://www.boatbuildercentral.com/tutorials/

You'll have fun.

Got everything unboxed and layer out on plastic. I filed all the puzzle pieces and dry fitted the sides and bottom. After I put the sides and bottoms together the next step is the frames. The instructions ask for thickened epoxy, is that what my gel magic is for?

No gelmagic is glue (well, epoxy glue). Thickened epoxy is epoxy with some wood flour mixed in to a consistency any where from honey to peanut butter, as needed. It can and often is used as glue as well and works just fine. It is very commonly used for fillets along joints. What is your intended use?

Dougster

Plans call for thickened epoxy for the frames, I bought a complete kit assumed it had what needed, also when I lay the boat over the jig- no instructions for strongback jig assembly btw, I use the same product for all the zip tie seams as well. I have seen some gv10 builds on a jig but one of them looks like they didn’t use a jig?

Have never used it myself, but Gel magic is a thickened epoxy which replaces making your own with wood flour.

Thank you cape man, I thought it was but wanted some confirmation.

Double post

[imgur2] https://imgur.com/u97Ogho[/imgur2]

Thoughts and advice? I need to clean up the edges, add nails for proper spacing, duct tape the back sides, then use gel magic on all the joints, correct?

What I can see looks good. I think you have a good plan. Just make sure the back half of the bottom does not have any hook or rocker.

I'd skip the nails. Just tighten up a few of the bow seams a bit with the zip ties. Then duct tape the inside seams, round off the outside seams. You're moving quickly.

No, no jig is needed as you can see. It's self jigging around the frames. When you go to put on the gunwhales, put a stick inside the hull at the top edge about 2-3' back from the bow so the hull panels are flexed out slightly. On some builds I've seen the hull get's a bit flat there. About your 2nd zip tie on the side seam.

Yes, use gelmagic for the seams.

Thank you Evan. I came out tonight to take a look, figured I would let the boat sit on the jig a few days to relax before I tried to get that last little bit of straightening up out of it. Well the outside edge of both of the bottom puzzles pieces is coming apart. Not sure what went wrong, using the silvertip mixed 2 to 1, wetted the edge real well, put together then applied on top. Let the pieces rest for 48 hours before moving them.
[imgur2] https://imgur.com/6PFJjMK[/imgur2]

You are going to need to pull those panels off and redo them. Get the joint flat again and put a layer of glass tape on both sides. The gel magic should have held, not sure what happened, but it can be fixed.

I didn’t use gel magic, just epoxy resin, were they supposed to be gel magic?

Did you just coat it with neat epoxy? If so that is the problem. You need to mix in wood flour to something like ketchup consistency to make a glue. No problem go ahead and pull it apart. Then make up some glue and put it back together. It is said you do not need to tape the joint but I would go ahead and lay some glass tape over the joint.

Correct I just used straight 2 to 1 epoxy, I feel like a dope now…lol. Guys I appreciate the help. So epoxy is just for use with glass, joining materials will always be a thickened epoxy such as gel magic. I will break it down, file, use gel magic, then lay 2 overlapping pieces of tape over the joint.

Grandbassslayer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:32 am Correct I just used straight 2 to 1 epoxy, I feel like a dope now…lol. Guys I appreciate the help. So epoxy is just for use with glass, joining materials will always be a thickened epoxy such as gel magic. I will break it down, file, use gel magic, then lay 2 overlapping pieces of tape over the joint.

You don't really need to overlap pieces of tape. One 6 inch wide over the puzzle joint will be plenty strong after you re-glue it. Heck, even one 4 inch wide would work.

You also use neat epoxy for sealing wood or precoating so the wood doesn't suck the epoxy out of you mix when you are laying glass.

Grandbassslayer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:32 am Correct I just used straight 2 to 1 epoxy, I feel like a dope now…lol. Guys I appreciate the help. So epoxy is just for use with glass, joining materials will always be a thickened epoxy such as gel magic. I will break it down, file, use gel magic, then lay 2 overlapping pieces of tape over the joint.

Easy mistake to make, easy one to fix. You've got plenty of dope-feeling left, don't worry.

Try using small zip-lock bags like a pastry bag for applying a bead of gel-magic where you need it, works great and is much neater than trying to apply with a knife etc. Syringes work great too but for really small jobs, there's a lot of cleaning overhead. I use a metal mug to hold the bag open, spoon in the mixed gel-magic, then cut a hole in the corner for the bead size i want and start squirting.

Got the 1st 6” wide tape down on all 4 sides, layer plastic wrap on them and weights. Will flip tomorrow, do the other side and get the boat back together. Any opinions on routing or sanding all the exterior edges? I don’t want sharp exterior corners, especially where the free board ties into the transom.

If it fits the angle a router is nice to use but it will not take very long with a sander either.

I use an angle grinder with 50 or 36 grit sanding disc (or 24 if you are brave)

Rounded corners are required anyway to help the fiberglass tape go around the corners

Heavy grit, light hand.

I practiced on some scrap and have my router set nice, should work well.
Thanks guys.

I took a belt sander to all the seams after I had all the zip ties pulled out, helped clean up all the seams and put nice rounded corners on them. I got all the exterior joints glasses with the 6” tape, good thing I got the slow hardener, still had one section that got away from me a little bit but nothiI can’t make work. Anyone thin the resin with alcohol before applying to boat? I saw a guy on YouTube do that and he said it helped a lot but I have not tried it. Pics to follow later tonight.

Do not thin epoxy! For epoxy to work right the mix ratio needs to be correct.

I was just tossing out ideas for when you do large areas. It would still be a 2:1 mix, then add the alcohol, he said it evaporates out after it’s later out. I dunno the channel is called “tips from a shipwrights” and he looks like an old school do it the right way kinda guy. Just curious if that was normal or not.

Thanks

I would agree with Fuzz. No need to thin our MarinEpoxy.
You will see a lot of different things on YouTube. Some builders, who are using a variety of different Epoxies, like to thin the first coat of epoxy in order to get it to "soak" into the wood better. You also see this a lot with the first coat of a varnish job. However, I have never had an issue with MarinEpoxy soaking in or creating a good bond to any core material. Simply ensure that the core is prepped properly (sanded, cleaned, and wiped down with a solvent) prior to applying your epoxy.

-Reid

Thinning resin might work well enough to get by (or not), but if you're looking to get the performance that it's designed for, don't thin epoxy! That old school advice was aimed at old school building methods, not composite hulls. If you want it thinner, buy thinner epoxy (I think the Silver Tip sold here is a bit thinner), or warm it up so it runs thinner, but adding solvents to resin will result in a weaker end product, especially important when laminating the hull panels. This building method depends on the strength of the glass more than a wood boat covered in fiberglass, the plywood (or foam) is a core; to stray from the design by adding alcohol to your epoxy . . I wouldn't do it in an important location.

Grandbassslayer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:24 am I was just tossing out ideas for when you do large areas. It would still be a 2:1 mix, then add the alcohol, he said it evaporates out after it’s later out. I dunno the channel is called “tips from a shipwrights” and he looks like an old school do it the right way kinda guy. Just curious if that was normal or not.

Thanks

Heavily debated topic. This article gives a pretty good synopsis of the pros and cons.

https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/th ... tem-epoxy/

I don't thin with solvents, I warm it up if needed and use slow hardener.

Please don't thin epoxy. It's designed to work correctly out of the bottle.

"Some guy on Youtube" is not a expert.

I had see that episode of tips from a shipwright where he did that. I thought it was interesting, but unnecessary. He is sponsored by totalboat and I would assume he talked to them about it as he mentions talking to some people about it before hand. I think this is one of those times where someone can be good at so many things(freehanding curves through an open tablesaw throat with no kickback ) but not have all the details right in other ways. that boat is a plank on frame anyway, so the strength of the fiberglass isn’t a critical component.

The hard part is you don’t know if it affects your epoxy unless you do some tests and prove it doesn’t. Not worth it for a small one off boat in my opinion.

Evan_Gatehouse wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:44 pm
"Some guy on Youtube" is not a expert.

I think Louis Sauzedde actually is an expert, who also happens to be on YouTube. But I agree in principle, lotta guys on youtube saying a lotta stuff that may or may not be accurate.

The gentlemen I was watching is definitely an expert. tips from a shipwright is his channel. I am good without thinning, just thought it was an interesting observation and wanted to hear from the experienced folks on this site.
Thanks
Scott