Jaysen's Helms 24

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by fallguy1000 »

I have zero faith in plywood edges exposed. You can hate me, but I would wrap the edges in 6 oz cloth. I bought some roseburg marine ply for a lid in my skiff. No epoxy, no nothin and about three years in, the edges are all delamed and when they get wet, they puff like a balloon.

I can't imagine the horror of your final product swelling on edges and being unable to function.

This is perhaps not the help you want, but a big caution. If you cover and encapsulate them, you only need to worry about cte.

Cte is about 3.4x10-6

3.4x10^-6 = (change in dim/orig dim )/change in temp

Say 70 degrees build, 110 degree operating max
Say 24" width

40•3.4x10^-6•24 = 0.003"

Wet wood is just gonna fail to function, so you'll need to close the plywood ends or it'll fail. In order to do the 45s, you'd build each one square and radius the ends to wrap them, then add back your overhang/underhang with bog.

Traditional boards use varnish to keep out the moisture and to keep the function.

..my 2 cents

Your method will be more work, but can be a better product done well.
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

Plan is to epoxy seal then paint or clear coat or varnish. I’m ok with short life span as these should be short term.

I’m avoiding glass as it requires more clearance planning.

I thought about using a 45 camfer bit on the edges but that will eat 1.5” of ply. I only have about 1” extra from this sheet (rest of sheet is bulkhead and “litter bucket” and structure for fuel tank).

I guess I could make the washboards out of just 2 pieces instead of 3 which would make the camfer bit work…
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by fallguy1000 »

The sun loves to bake the edges. And there is the trouble. Maybe if you get enough epoxy on the edges; you'll be okay.
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:19 am The sun loves to bake the edges. And there is the trouble. Maybe if you get enough epoxy on the edges; you'll be okay.
Great point. I will need to do something on the trim/retainer edges. In this case the washboard edges are by the trim/retainer pieces. When not in position they are stored below. The lower board will be in place during offshore runs but that will be much later so I'll have time to adjust.

I think Cape Man has some fancy ply edges on one of his builds. I wonder how he protected it.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm off to check the fit of my cardboard template and take a nap in a berth. Still need to decide which one. So many to choose from!
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

Piacere is a Hans Christian? Beautiful boats. Not too fast but who cares if you're cruising. Lotta brightwork. You have to have the money to buy and also the money to hire a little man from the village for varnishing.

In regard to the winch placement: Without being there it's a little hard to say. My first guess is that the main issue is those cam cleats. If you had a horn cleat a bit farther back, or a cam cleat with the right position and on a tapered block, the winch location is OK. Self-tailers would be cool, though. As to having two winches on each side, that's fine. Better to have too many winches than too few.

Why do you have to use a saber saw for those cuts? Even if you do, it should be relatively easy to plane them square. The companionway boards don't have to fit super precisely. As long as you have the angle as you describe, they won't leak. You certainly don't want them too tight for all kinds of reasons. I guess you've already got the wood but I can't recalling seeing plywood companionway boards for the reasons already mentioned.

I'll look in later. Gotta go teach. I'm so damn old I get bushed after a day of screaming at people. Actually, I don't scream. But I do get tired. :roll:
Last edited by terrulian on Sun May 16, 2021 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by fallguy1000 »

So, off topic.. On the other forum I enjoy.

I can @capeman, for example and he gets a notice his name was called. Can that happen here?
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Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by Jaysen »

terrulian wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am Piacere is a Hans Christian? Beautiful boats. Not too fast but who cares if you're cruising. Lotta brightwork. You have to have the money to buy and also the money to hire a little man from the village for varnishing.
Yes. Colleen is actually good at finishing. Most of the brightwork is in need of attention but the wood is good. The current owners were in last weekend and over the course of one box of wine they did about 30% of the forward deck. Considering that we would be free of "home" maintenance I would hope we could cover the bright ourselves.
terrulian wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am My first guess is that the main issue is those cam cleats.
My concern is the force on the deck more than the entrance to the cleats. Lewmar has little mounting data for the classics I purchased so I had to use the EVO (same sizes) directions. They indicate that the mounting needs to be "directionally aligned with the force applied". I don't know if that's because of the self-tailing aspect needing to avoid too many wraps or because... bigger. I mounted the hole pattern to match the EVO directional assuming the cars would be forward of the winch. I may need to open a support query with Lewmar.
terrulian wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am Why do you have to use a saber saw for those cuts?
Because it's that or a hand saw or buy a new circular saw. Given the lack of income we are only dropping $$ on things we have to have. Some would ask "then why are you spending any $$ on the boat?" My answer would be "because we can live on a tiny 24' boat if we have too." Not ideal, but something the Mrs is super concerned about. I'm picking up a dockhand job to provide a couple bucks while cutting our dockage way down.
terrulian wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:59 am I guess you've already got the wood but I can't recalling seeing plywood companionway boards for the reasons already mentioned.
Iv'e looked around. There are a number of ply washboards in our marinas. Cheap wood or unmaintained... terrible. The ones built with real ply and maintained seem to be pretty bulletproof. That said, if I get 3yr out of these we will be happy. In any event boards that fit right and don't leak are the need right now.
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:59 am So, off topic.. On the other forum I enjoy.

I can @capeman, for example and he gets a notice his name was called. Can that happen here?
That's a current limitation of the current software. I've looked at extensions but the few that might add that feature have issues I don't want to burden Jeff or BBC with (data privacy concerns). You can "cheat" it by PM'ing the person or fake quoting via

Code: Select all

[quote=capeman][/quote]
That looks like this though...
fallguy1000 wrote:
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by terrulian »

My concern is the force on the deck more than the entrance to the cleats. Lewmar has little mounting data for the classics I purchased so I had to use the EVO (same sizes) directions. They indicate that the mounting needs to be "directionally aligned with the force applied". I don't know if that's because of the self-tailing aspect needing to avoid too many wraps or because... bigger. I mounted the hole pattern to match the EVO directional assuming the cars would be forward of the winch. I may need to open a support query with Lewmar.
Unless those coaming tops are made of 1/8" ply, a substantial backing plate (say 3/8" meranti) should make the pull on the winches bulletproof. It doesn't have to hold the force of a foresail sheet on a 70-footer.
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by pee wee »

Jaysen wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:34 am [ There are a number of ply washboards in our marinas. Cheap wood or unmaintained... terrible. The ones built with real ply and maintained seem to be pretty bulletproof. That said, if I get 3yr out of these we will be happy. In any event boards that fit right and don't leak are the need right now.
How about edging the plywood pieces with strips of lumber?
Hank

fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Helms 24

Post by fallguy1000 »

So, off topic.. On the other forum I enjoy.

I can @capeman, for example and he gets a notice his name was called. Can that happen here?

<-----stayed in buffer?

Lots of places are hiring people from afar now. My wife's company is in a bit of a tizzy trying to unravel work from home. She's not having it. Anyhow, my point is, you can probably work from the boat for quite a few companies now post Covid.
My boat build is here -------->

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