Jaysen's Helms 24

[glossieblack]

I know you've been attracted to serial-hybrid drive chains for years, but for your Helms 24, I reckon Mrs J is calling it right.

[Jaysen]

Less her repeated applications of fry pan to my cranium and more the uncovering of all through holes for drive train being fully glassed closed. I would need to pull out if the water for an extended period of time and would wind up needing to manufacture some conversion from “sail drive” to “shaft drive”.

Mrs point is that for $us2,000 I can get a brand new motor and custom internal tank and be sailing. She’s big on the “shut up and take me sailing” right now.

No matter how you stack it, a new tohatsu 6hp sail pro unit makes sense.

Hybrid drive all day if I get a big boat.

[Jaysen]

Jeff, not sure if JM is willing to comment, but I would like his opinion if he is board for the day...

On the Helm, there is a wood compression post underneath the mast (post is in great shape). There is bulkhead ply to port, door then more ply to starboard. It appears that there are gaps between this ply and the cabin top and sole. The ply DOES NOT extend below sole and appears unsupported other than a reinforcement ridge under the sole (tough to see with the limited access). Previous owners have pretty well ruined the ply via cutting holes for radios and screwing things into it. Current ply is 1/2" cabinet ply. Might be marine, but it is, it isn't high quality. I honestly believe it has been replaced at least once before.

Questions:
1. Do I need to be concerned about "high end" marine ply here? Mrs is leaning toward painting?
2. If I get into this and find that it is structural (fully supported to hull and under load) does that change the answer? My understanding is that it shouldn't be as the load should be entirely on the compression post vs no post (bulk head distributed load)
3. Current bulk head appears to be using some type of packing material between bulkhead and mounting point that is then covered with fabric. I don't know what this packing is for. Does anyone know what it is for and what a suitable replacement would be?

Thanks.

[jacquesmm]

1 don't know the designer intent. It may be that he consider the master post sufficient and that what you describe is not structural in which case, you can do what you want.
In my designs, I make the master bulkhead structural. It helps preventing buckling of the master post but here, I don't know. The design approach is completely.
There can be a problem mixing two methods. If the designer counted on some flexibility, a very stiff bulkhead will work against that. Stay with the designer intent.

[Jaysen]

Thank you Jacques. I'll just cut to the current sizing. I'm also seeing that I should dismast to reduce any stress before removing the current bulkhead.

Thanks again!

[fallguy1000]

Jeff, not sure if JM is willing to comment, but I would like his opinion if he is board for the day...

On the Helm, there is a wood compression post underneath the mast (post is in great shape). There is bulkhead ply to port, door then more ply to starboard. It appears that there are gaps between this ply and the cabin top and sole. The ply DOES NOT extend below sole and appears unsupported other than a reinforcement ridge under the sole (tough to see with the limited access). Previous owners have pretty well ruined the ply via cutting holes for radios and screwing things into it. Current ply is 1/2" cabinet ply. Might be marine, but it is, it isn't high quality. I honestly believe it has been replaced at least once before.

Questions:
1. Do I need to be concerned about "high end" marine ply here? Mrs is leaning toward painting?
2. If I get into this and find that it is structural (fully supported to hull and under load) does that change the answer? My understanding is that it shouldn't be as the load should be entirely on the compression post vs no post (bulk head distributed load)
3. Current bulk head appears to be using some type of packing material between bulkhead and mounting point that is then covered with fabric. I don't know what this packing is for. Does anyone know what it is for and what a suitable replacement would be?

Thanks.

Pictures?

[Jaysen]

Pictures?

Nothing I asked someone-who-shall-not-be-blamed-for-not-knowing-the-parts-of-a-boat to take pictures of came out. I should be able to get to her tomorrow and will take proper shots then.

In her defense, someone-who-shall-not-be-blamed-for-not-knowing-the-parts-of-a-boat was very happy to help and very apologetic of the quality. I really am lucky that she is as eager to "get to sailing" as I am. I don't see many guys my age with a spouse as happily supportive as mine. Seems like a more common thing here in BBC land so maybe we are all doing something right.

[terrulian]

I don't know if you remember, but my Ericson 39 split athwartships under the main bulkhead. I don't want to go into great detail about how this happened but it was due to this basic fact: In all sailboats, the mast is pushing down and the shrouds and stays are resisting that force. There needs to be very positive structural rigidity between the chainplates and the mast step. I couldn't quite visualize from your description whether this may be compromised, so like fallguy I would like photos. I hope I haven't intruded on Jacques territory and I also hope I have this correctly visualized.

[fallguy1000]

I don't know if you remember, but my Ericson 39 split athwartships under the main bulkhead. I don't want to go into great detail about how this happened but it was due to this basic fact: In all sailboats, the mast is pushing down and the shrouds and stays are resisting that force. There needs to be very positive structural rigidity between the chainplates and the mast step. I couldn't quite visualize from your description whether this may be compromised, so like fallguy I would like photos. I hope I haven't intruded on Jacques territory and I also hope I have this correctly visualized.

It sounds like you have a better handle on it.

I am mostly curious about the packing material bit.

[Jaysen]

Images

The two segments of bulkheads we are talking about. Note the ridge that runs the cabin roof all the way to the deck junction


Note the smiling boat bling.

Here are some pictures of the areas the have me questioning if it is structural. As I pick at that fabric... that is all it is. It looks like upholstery fabric stuffed to fill the gaps.



But then there is this. Inner shroud chain plates. There is a solid section of wood from the built up ridge to the bottom of the chain plate that I think is bearing the load into the ridge. The ply doesn’t make contact with the cabin top in that area.



Still trying to get images below. Mrs is less smiley when I start throwing sails and cushions at her.

Edit: can’t get images from below because the mid section is glassed from hull to cabin sole. Don’t know if it is solid fore/aft as there is no inspection hatch that I can find. The wood stops at the cabin sole. Same “fit” with gaps ranging from 1/6 to 3/8” stuffed town fabric.

This is fun.

In other news we have completed the official transaction! Just need to complete registration with state. That marks the happiest boat owner day...