Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
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Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Hi all. Please see pix. Just wanted an opinion on these cracks around the traveler. This area takes a lot of stress. What's the best course of action - monitor and see if it gets worse, fix immediately, or to be expected on a 44 year old sailboat? The boat is a 1977 Schock Santana 28 and the area of the deck the traveler is attached to is a molded part of the top deck and cannot be removed. Thanks for your input.
Last edited by SchockSantana28 on Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
It looks like it has cracked on the bolt holes. That would seem to indicate there is not a backing plate being used to distribute load OR that those bolts were tight and the rest loose. Can you see the back side of those bolts/screws? Is there a backing plate?
At first glance those cracks look pretty bad. Given that the traveler is holding your main, I would consider it "critical" until you can prove it isn't.
At first glance those cracks look pretty bad. Given that the traveler is holding your main, I would consider it "critical" until you can prove it isn't.
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Looks like someone overdid some stay tension. Care to comment?
Go adjust stays on ends opposite the crack and see if tension on the stays changes the cracks.
I'd say you overdid the tension at some point. The big question is did you do it or did the boat flex midship.
I am no sailor, but I understand well how improper tension can literally break a boat.
You'll get better support for this question on boatdesign.net.
Jaysen is a sailor here. Over there they get some architects and more sailors responding.
If she flexes on light stay tension; you are screwed. Ground it. If it flexes under heavy tension; stop and try to understand a time it may have encountered such forces. Bottom line is you need to understand the cause. Is the mast moving on its foot? Did the stays get overtensioned? Did you have a grounding event that weakened the midship and the normal stay tension caused it? etc
Go adjust stays on ends opposite the crack and see if tension on the stays changes the cracks.
I'd say you overdid the tension at some point. The big question is did you do it or did the boat flex midship.
I am no sailor, but I understand well how improper tension can literally break a boat.
You'll get better support for this question on boatdesign.net.
Jaysen is a sailor here. Over there they get some architects and more sailors responding.
If she flexes on light stay tension; you are screwed. Ground it. If it flexes under heavy tension; stop and try to understand a time it may have encountered such forces. Bottom line is you need to understand the cause. Is the mast moving on its foot? Did the stays get overtensioned? Did you have a grounding event that weakened the midship and the normal stay tension caused it? etc
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
The crack that looks open on the top. Is that a rubrail? Hard to tell by too close up pic. But it looks more open on the top which means to me the ends of the boat were tighter and now looser at some point unless not a rubrail and I am completely confused.
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Jaysen, most of the cracks are not at bolt holes, but that's a good question and good advice. I'll try to see what kind of support there is for the traveler behind the bolts. Thanks.
Jaysen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:31 pm It looks like it has cracked on the bolt holes. That would seem to indicate there is not a backing plate being used to distribute load OR that those bolts were tight and the rest loose. Can you see the back side of those bolts/screws? Is there a backing plate?
At first glance those cracks look pretty bad. Given that the traveler is holding your main, I would consider it "critical" until you can prove it isn't.
Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
After 44 years you look in pretty good shape. Those are small cracks and since they are only in part of the bolts holding the traveler down you are in pretty good shape. First, why do you say the traveler cannot be removed, most are made to be removed in case they break and replaced. They are after all a breakable part of a sail boat. That is why they are bolted down, like yours is. But you do need to take care of it pretty quickly like Jaysen says. You do not want to let those cracks grow if they are.
One way to check how the cracks are working is to mark them with a permanent marker to see if they are growing or if they have stopped and have stabilized. Where is the one with the wood at, no 3 down? It was probably caused by the wood being glued to the fiberglass and splitting not the fiberglass and is now stable. Just fill the gap. But mark the gap in case it opens further. Fill the wood gap also with some exterior wood putty and stain and varnish.
Tom
One way to check how the cracks are working is to mark them with a permanent marker to see if they are growing or if they have stopped and have stabilized. Where is the one with the wood at, no 3 down? It was probably caused by the wood being glued to the fiberglass and splitting not the fiberglass and is now stable. Just fill the gap. But mark the gap in case it opens further. Fill the wood gap also with some exterior wood putty and stain and varnish.
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Thanks FallGuy. I just posted on the other site as well.
Just for clarification - the first image shows the general area where the cracks are. All the close-ups are around the raised traveler mounting area shown in the first picture.
thanks,
Just for clarification - the first image shows the general area where the cracks are. All the close-ups are around the raised traveler mounting area shown in the first picture.
thanks,
fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:49 pm The crack that looks open on the top. Is that a rubrail? Hard to tell by too close up pic. But it looks more open on the top which means to me the ends of the boat were tighter and now looser at some point unless not a rubrail and I am completely confused.
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Fallguy, the stays are further forward. The traveler allows the mainsheet termination to be moved allowing for more control of the boom position relative to centerline. This like like the mainsail or mast was severely loaded but tension on the main not released.
Typically there is a backing plate running opposite side of the glass to distribute load. In those cases you’d see cracking around the top. The “point cracking” near those screw holes is the most bothersome. The end cracking isn’t great either.
Typically there is a backing plate running opposite side of the glass to distribute load. In those cases you’d see cracking around the top. The “point cracking” near those screw holes is the most bothersome. The end cracking isn’t great either.
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
Thanks Tom,
I meant that the raised deck housing area for the traveler is not removable, not the traveler itself. In fact I should remove the traveler to see if there are any clues underneath.
I'll mark the cracks to see if they grow.
thanks for the input. -steve
I meant that the raised deck housing area for the traveler is not removable, not the traveler itself. In fact I should remove the traveler to see if there are any clues underneath.
I'll mark the cracks to see if they grow.
thanks for the input. -steve
TomW1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:35 pm After 44 years you look in pretty good shape. Those are small cracks and since they are only in part of the bolts holding the traveler down you are in pretty good shape. First, why do you say the traveler cannot be removed, most are made to be removed in case they break and replaced. They are after all a breakable part of a sail boat. That is why they are bolted down, like yours is. But you do need to take care of it pretty quickly like Jaysen says. You do not want to let those cracks grow if they are.
One way to check how the cracks are working is to mark them with a permanent marker to see if they are growing or if they have stopped and have stabilized. Where is the one with the wood at, no 3 down? It was probably caused by the wood being glued to the fiberglass and splitting not the fiberglass and is now stable. Just fill the gap. But mark the gap in case it opens further. Fill the wood gap also with some exterior wood putty and stain and varnish.
Tom
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Re: Deck cracks around traveler. Critical or cosmetic?
We have seen on the other forum boats where the mast stay tension has been too great; sources vary, but overtensioning the stays CAN and has broken boats. The mast doing something bad as well like moving hard and crewting the stay tension.Jaysen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:40 pm Fallguy, the stays are further forward. The traveler allows the mainsheet termination to be moved allowing for more control of the boom position relative to centerline. This like like the mainsail or mast was severely loaded but tension on the main not released.
Typically there is a backing plate running opposite side of the glass to distribute load. In those cases you’d see cracking around the top. The “point cracking” near those screw holes is the most bothersome. The end cracking isn’t great either.
A structural analysis is needed. You need to understand what happens to the vessel under scenarios I suggested or others I as a sailor missed.
Something broke the boat across the hatch opening and it is broken on both sides unless I misonterpret the pictures. And I don't know the material that the rubrail is made from, but cracking that is not good and you can determine the typical strength of the rail if the material is known. And thus, you can almost determine the forces the boat was under.
But I feel like you are not telling us something.
Tom-the boat flexed enough to crack the rubrail. That was no small problem unless I am misunderstanding the closeups which can happen.
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