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FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:22 pm
by dborecky
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Jacques et al......,

I guess my last post got zapped..... I hope I did not offend with my very long detailed problems......

I got home and unzipped the boat sides and took it all off the frame/strongback.

Here is the are the measurments I got and how I took them.

Transom thickness at the clamping board is 1 7/16".

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The Transom to the Rear Frame measured from Bow edge to Transom edge is 36/ 5/8" at bottom of the transom.

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The Rear Frame transom edge to the Rear Seat Frame bow edge is 36 5/8"

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The Rear Seat Frame transom edge to the Front Seat Frame bow edge is 16"

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The Front Seat Frame transom edge to the Bow Frame bow edge is 36 5/8 "

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Here is some overall pictures with the skin off.

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Jacques, I did not get a chance to copy the numbers you put on your last message before the thread got zapped. I do appreciate all your help along with everybody else.

Sooooooo..... Where did I go wrong and what do I do to correct the problem???? :doh:

Derrick

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:36 pm
by mecreature

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:43 pm
by jacquesmm
I don't know how the thread was deleted. I found a wrong setting in this forum: any user could delete any thread! It's fixed and I posted the dimensions again one hour ago:

http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12123

Please compare to the drawing, I am getting confused by all the pictures.

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:48 pm
by jacquesmm
I tried to compare and your distances are wrong, sorry.
More than 1-1/2" total differences.

Plus, there is something wrong with the shape of the stringers but let's fix the distance between frames problem first.

One thing I did not post in the other thread is the length of the bow mold but it is on the plans. Your bow mold is 3/4" too long.

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:50 pm
by jacquesmm
I'm going to copy my messages in the other thread below.
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The whole thread dissapeared! Somebody must have clicked the wrong button, sorry.
Let's restart it.
dborecky had problems with panels fitting at the bow. After many exchanges, we discovered that the molds (frames) were not located properly.
At least we think that is the problem.
I will repeat the last post about the exact dimensions below.
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Frames (molds) locations on the strongback.
All these dimensions are on the plans but the tickmarks are difficult to see. The tick marks show from which side a mesasurement is taken.
The strongbacks are 127-1/8" long and we start measuring from the bow side.
The stern side of the bow mold is lined up with the forward edge of the strong back.
- From the bow mold (stern side) to the 1st mid seat frame (bow side): 36"
- From the 1st mid seat frame (bow side) to the 2nd mid seat frame (stern side): 16"
- from the 2nd mid seat frame (stern side) to the rear seat frame (bow side): 36".
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This is extracted from the plans:

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Except for the text under "molds spacing", that is how it is supposed to look on the plans but with the thickness of the lines, once printed, the tick marks are difficult to see. That is why I added the text about spacing.
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I will lock the otehr thread, let's discuss this here.

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:55 pm
by dborecky
I don't know how the thread was deleted. I found a wrong setting in this forum: any user could delete any thread! It's fixed and I posted the dimensions again one hour ago:

http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12123

Please compare to the drawing, I am getting confused by all the pictures.
Jacques,

Sorry about all the photos..... I thought they would help. I measured from the outsides of all frames not the insides so when you subtract for the thinckness of the wood 3/8 + 3/8 = 6/8 and the measurment I got was 5/8th for a total of 1/8th per frame width excluding the seat frames. Total of 3/8th off. Too short I think... :doh:

What do you think?... do I have a bad bow mold or did I mess up the stringers or .......

Thanks,

Derrick

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:12 pm
by AdamG
This is just me, but I'd mod the stringers to fit the curvature of the hull panels myself. Maybe butt block some extensions on them. You could put the hull panels back on, and get under and trim a peice of cardboard to fit the curvature, and then use that as a template. Cut the end 8" or so off of your stringers, and make a new end conforming to the hull shape template, and butt block them on. You lose a day or two of work, and some scrap, but the problem is solved. It's not that your parts need to match the plans exactly...they need to match to eachother, and have the bottom be fair and the curvatures be even and natural....

It also looks like if you moved the forward frame back about 1 inch or so, it would better fit the stringers, and give your side panels more room to bend to meet at the bow. Getting the hull panels on the molds takes a lot of tweaking and adjusting sometimes. I had to trim my panel edges a little here and there to get a better fit.

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:44 pm
by dborecky
Jacques,

Thanks for taking the time today on the phone. For those of you following this we figured my measurments were actually pretty good and only 1/8" here or there off. That would not explain the problem. We agree that the front of the stringers have been sanded too much and I lost too much curve but that should not effect the fair of the panels. We also figured that the bow mold was too long. I did pull the bow mold off this afternoon and measure it off the boat and it was very very close to the 38 1/8" called for in the plans. I cut off 1/4" from the straight edge and lowered the mold by about 3/16" or so and I started to stitch the boat very very lightly together. I will take a pick of what I have right now and post it for you all to see and for Jacques to take a look as well.

I was going to wait for this weekend but then I was in the garage and the wife was away so I started to cut and stitch again...... :lol:

Jacque,

Let me know what you think of these latest pics..

Derrick

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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:20 pm
by dborecky
Jacques et al,

I spent some time this weekend on the boat. I bit the bullet and just went with what I had. I will post the pictures in the sequence I did the process. I hope I did not mess up as It is now welded together and the stitches are cut.

I found that the Silvertip quick filet was not so thick and the consistency of thick honey. It tended to sag and drip some. I was not expecting this. This happened with each batch no matter how much care I used not to over mix it. It was actually better when it started to kick off.





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This shot is my motivation. I want the boat to be sitting right there!!...

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So there you have it. That is were I am to date. I hope I did not mess things up and we will see how it goes from here.

I wish the Silver Tip Filet material was thicker. It would be easier to use.

I guess I need to sand the edges and filet the rest then lay the tap on the edges and then the cloth. At least that is how I see it.

Derrick

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:12 pm
by baba101
You are a winner Derrick...

Its all easy from here onwards.....you are going to love this boat when its done...

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:38 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Derrick

The boat looks good to me. Everything seem fair and symmetrical. That's a good thing! :D I would pay some attention to the stringers as they don't make contact with hull at their tips. AdamG mentioned modifying them in some way and I agree. Butt blocks sound reasonable and would waste the least amount of ply.

Keep up the good work. You are doing great.

Huck

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:46 am
by jacquesmm
It looks good. I still don't understand the gap at the bow but it doesn't matter much.

I do not monitor this section. This part of the forum is to psot stories about building and completed boats. For technical questions, I watch the "Power Boats" section. That is why I ddi not respond: didn't see the message.

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:26 am
by dborecky
It looks good. I still don't understand the gap at the bow but it doesn't matter much.

I do not monitor this section. This part of the forum is to psot stories about building and completed boats. For technical questions, I watch the "Power Boats" section. That is why I ddi not respond: didn't see the message.
Jacques,

I understand and will post in that section for future questions. I think it should go together from here. I still don't understand why the filet material is so thin. Do I need to add filler to make it thicker?

I won't be able to do any major progress for a few weeks as I will be working for the next 12 days straight. I may find time to cut the glass and get ready for the glassing marathon. Thanks for your help.

Daniel,

Jacques told me that foam will help with the front stringer problem. I will wait till I get to that point and ask what to do then. Thanks for the encouragment.

Baba,

Thanks

Derrick

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:56 am
by AdamG
It takes practice to get the fillet material to the right consistency, and it depends somewhat on the resin brand, hardner speed, and filler you use, and the temperatures you are working in.

As the epoxy component of the mix starts it's set up reaction and gets warmer, it actually thins and gets more runny some before it starts hardening. This means you have to make the fillet mix a bit thicker sometimes, especially if you are filling wider gaps. Its almost as thick as cookie dough when I mix it using system3 medium speed. After it heats up when the reaction is going, it thins to a more peanutbutter like texture. If you start on the thin side with the epoxy fillet mix, it will get runny as the reaction starts.

Basically, when you get a good fillet mix, you should be able to scoop some up on a fillet tool, and the dollop shouldn't really move or deform at all if you hold it at any angle. When you mix it in the cup, it shouldn't sort of melt or run back down into the bottom..it should stay in the shape it was last stirred into. That's what worked for me at least.

It takes practice and experience.

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:01 am
by dborecky
AdamG wrote:It takes practice to get the fillet material to the right consistency, and it depends somewhat on the resin brand, hardner speed, and filler you use, and the temperatures you are working in.

As the epoxy component of the mix starts it's set up reaction and gets warmer, it actually thins and gets more runny some before it starts hardening. This means you have to make the fillet mix a bit thicker sometimes, especially if you are filling wider gaps. Its almost as thick as cookie dough when I mix it using system3 medium speed. After it heats up when the reaction is going, it thins to a more peanutbutter like texture. If you start on the thin side with the epoxy fillet mix, it will get runny as the reaction starts.

Basically, when you get a good fillet mix, you should be able to scoop some up on a fillet tool, and the dollop shouldn't really move or deform at all if you hold it at any angle. When you mix it in the cup, it shouldn't sort of melt or run back down into the bottom..it should stay in the shape it was last stirred into. That's what worked for me at least.

It takes practice and experience.

Adam,

I was using SilverTip. You are just mix 1:3 ratio and it is supposed to be all that you need to do. I found it to be kind of runny. I'm not sure why or what I'm doing wrong. You are supposed to just mix till it turns brown and not over mix as this can make it thin. I tried multiple batches and all turned out with a thick honey consistency and by no means was it like peanut butter. I would have loved that.

Derrick

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:03 am
by MadRus
I agree with Adam, that's exactly how thick I mix my fillet material too. That's why I always say, order more woodflour than they specify- twice as much. Saggy fillets are a PITA. Sturdy fillets are a good friend, especially when you're doing wet-on-wet.

Woops, I posted after you did.

Anyway, you might check with S3 to make sure adding woodflour won't hurt the fillet material you're using and then try thickening with it.

Want to add... mix the epoxy first and make sure you mix it according to instructions (S3 regular epoxy states at least 2 minutes of stirring) before you add the thickeners.

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:52 am
by AdamG
Derrick,

Are you using some kind of special fillet mixture specified by System3, or are you using just regular System3 Silvertip resin and your own filler to mix? If you aren't using a special fillet mix kit specified by the manufacturer, there really isn't some set fillet mix ratio. The only mix ratio is for the epoxy resin to harder, then you add the filler material on an as needed basis to get the consistency you want. Different fillers will require different volumes because they have different properties and densities due to particle size and shape.

I used some silica microspheres here and there because West Marine had some on sale, but it tends to cause bubbles when mixed for me. 95% of my fillet mix filler material is good old reliable woodflour. It mixes consistently and well, and is dirt cheap. I just mixed a small batch of epoxy resin/ hardner, and then spooned in and mixed filler until it reached the consistency I wanted. I never have measured filler one time, I always mixed each batch "custom" for the thickness I wanted depending on the size of the gap I was trying to fill, or if I was making a thinner mix for small fillets, or depending on the temperature. Mix it as thick as you need it to get the job done, if you are mixing your own filler. If you start to work with it and it sags or runs and looks too thin when you first start applying, scrape what you used up and put it back in your mixing container, stir some more filler in, and try it again...unless it is starting to set of course!

Mixing in the filler material isn't like mixing the epoxy..with epoxy you have to have the right ratio...with filler, it is pretty much as much or little as you need to get it to do what you need it to do.

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:28 pm
by dborecky
Adam,

I'm using Silver Tip EZ fillet.

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This is a quote from the product page.

"EZ Fillet is a wood flour-filled two-part putty specifically designed for stitch-and-glue wooden boat construction. Its ketchup-like, self-leveling consistency allows it to be measured by volume or weight. The resin (part A) is brick red in color while the hardener (part B) is a deep, dark green. A rich brown wood tone results when the two parts are combined indicating complete mixing. The putty thickens after mixing to form an easy to spread, thixotropic compound, which stays put and will not run or sag. EZ Fillet has been designed for superior strength and workability and can be used by itself to create smooth cosmetic fillets or as a structural fillet when combined with fiberglass cloth. EZ Fillet can be applied by spatula or caulking tube. A convenient pastry bag technique can be used by snipping off the corner of a plastic food storage bag and filling it with mixed EZ Fillet. Adjust the size of the hole to deliver just the right amount of EZ Fillet."

I just found that it was kind of thin and did sag and run some.

Derrick

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:53 pm
by AdamG
Strange. I suspect you can mix in a little woodflour with no ill effects if you need it thicker for filling larger gaps. You might want to test that theory in a small area or on some test wood, just to be sure. In my experience, thinner fillet material was ok for thinner gaps, 1/8 or so, but you need it thicker for larger gaps or it sags into the gap.

I'm be suprized if you have lots of problems with system3 premixes. I absolutely love QuickFair..it was WAY better than any fairing mix I tried to make myself. Never tried their fillet stuff before mostly because I'm a cheapskate, but the quickfair was absolutely worth the money for the amount of resin it saves trying to make good handmade fairing mixes.

Good luck.

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:20 pm
by dborecky
I spent a full day putting the glass on the bottom of the boat. I have decided that I need lots more practice to get it right.

A few things I did that I'm not sure of.

1. I put the glass on as a mirror image when I cut the front shape and by doing so ended up with two different sides of glass on the two halves of the boat. I don't know if that will make a difference.

2. I wet the whole bottom of the boat after taping instead of just one half. This led to the second half being very sticky when laying the second half and it would stick which made if very difficult to work with and get the air and wrinkle out.

Here are the pictures of the build so far.

The stern with two 4 layer ply blocks glued to make up the slight short edges of the stern. I then glued the blocks onto the outer edges of the stern to be shaped later when the boat is flipped.

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Two shots of the bow after the shaping and fitting but prior to the glass.

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The glassing was done wet on wet. I put the filet down then the tape then the glass cloth. I did put three layers of tape on the stern edges as I am going to hang a 25 HP tiller on the back of this thing.

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Here is a close up of the stern bottom side edge. As you can see it is really thick.

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Am area of poor lamination.

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Anther bow shot after lots of glass.

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Here is another shot of the spot that needs some work to fix the delamination.

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Here is a shot of the bottom.

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Here is a small line of air in the bottom that I'm not sure needs to be fixed. Unless told otherwise...

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I'm not sure if this is what it is supposed to look like or not. This was the first time I glassed anything and let me tell you it was a pain in the rear to do all that area in one day. I had my brother in law helping with the mixing and laying and it took all day yesterday......

Any input would be appreciated on what I need to do to fix anything you guys see that needs to be fixed prior to fairing.

Derrick

PS Jacques/Joel, Feel free to tell me anything that needs to be done or fixed to get the the fairing part....

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:20 am
by tech_support
It actually looks pretty good. Doing all the laminations in one day saved you a lot of grinding work and makes for a better laminate.

The extra layer of tape around the transom is going to make the fairing more difficult. To get an idea of how much you need to fair. take a long straight edge (a 4' level works well) rest it on the keel with one end on the transom. You can now see that there is a hook that needs to be faired. the last 4 feet ors o of that boat need to be a straight run (or close to straight as reasonably possible)

Same thing applies for the overlaps of Biax cloth around the bow – there is a lot of build up there.

You can beef up laminations on the inside without making for a bigger fairing project. Build ups of glass on the inside are easy to deal with. If the build up of the overlaps is in a hidden area like the inside of the transom then there is no real added faring work

Those small air pockets are no problem sand/grind then out and fill then with thickened epoxy

I recommend making/buying a long faring board.

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:47 am
by dborecky
Joel,

Thanks for the reply.

The spot on the side that is not laminated I was going to grind off and cover the whole edge of the overlap with a strip of glass but if you think I can just fill it with thickend epoxy that will be what I will do.

I already purchased the fairing board and 60 grit sandpaper from you all.

Do you think that the laying of the glass on different sides will effect anything? I can feel the longitudinal threads more on one side of the hull.

Can I lightly sand the bottom prior to fairing to get off the rough edges without hurting the glass?

Derrick

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:22 am
by tech_support
You should sand it lightly with the 60 grit board, or use an orbital sander. Your just "knocking down" the rough stitching, not really sanding any glass off. Then start to fair.

I would sand down some of those big overlaps, not a lot, but to help save fairing

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:50 am
by MadRus
I think that looks like pretty nice work to me. When you say delamination, are you sure you're talking about delamination or just a cloudy finish? Is the fiberglass actually lifting away from the plywood or previous layers of glass? Or are you just talking about the way it gets sort of milky looking? In my experience, that's something that happens from overworking the glass and resin sometimes, but it doesn't mean it will delaminate.

I think it looks pretty darn good.

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:08 am
by dborecky
I think that looks like pretty nice work to me. When you say delamination, are you sure you're talking about delamination or just a cloudy finish? Is the fiberglass actually lifting away from the plywood or previous layers of glass? Or are you just talking about the way it gets sort of milky looking? In my experience, that's something that happens from overworking the glass and resin sometimes, but it doesn't mean it will delaminate.

I think it looks pretty darn good.
Thanks for the comments. I have one spot that is delaminated on the right side. It is about 3 inches in diameter. It is near the rub rail edge and I must have missed it when working in the resin. You can see it in the pictures as a small circle. I may grind it down and patch or just fill it with resin. I have not decided which would be the best way to deal with it.

Joel,

Thanks for your input. I can use either the orbital or the fairing board but am a little scared of the orbital as I can get carried away with that thing and do real deep damage.....

Derrick

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:53 am
by dborecky
I did some work on the boat. I was able to add two layers of rub rail to one side. I could have done more but had to wait overnight for the expoxy to dry before adding the second one. I need to remove the clamps tonight. I may have time to add the third layer tonight and be done with one side.

I will put some pics up soon of all the clamps used to just put on one rub rail layer.... Home Depot loves me!!!

Derrick

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:28 am
by Daddy
Derrick, in case you need some more you can make lots of "clamps" for little or nothing by using split rings of pvc pipe. There are pictures somewhere in the gallery of glueing on rubrails using these clamps.
Daddy

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:31 am
by ks8
It was only a matter of time until someone glued their hand to a hull...

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:34 am
by dborecky
Daddy wrote:Derrick, in case you need some more you can make lots of "clamps" for little or nothing by using split rings of pvc pipe. There are pictures somewhere in the gallery of glueing on rubrails using these clamps.
Daddy
Thanks for the suggestion. I have about 60+ of the less then 1 dollar clamps and unless I build a much bigger boat will not be needing more for the time being.....

I do have the plans for the PH18 but decided to build this one for now. I'm enjoying watching your build. I am going to be fairing soon and you make it look way to simple.

Derrick

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:41 pm
by familyman
Derrick: Did you still want to try to get together. I am almost done fairing and I might be able to at least show you what not to do and possibly save you a little trouble. 813-448-9223. I am in oldsmar.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:24 pm
by dborecky
Bryan, I called during lunch and got a message with kids talking. I'll try and give you a call later...

Well... I am crawling along in progress in my few minutes here and there. I have now laminated and glued three layers of 1/4 Oku ply to one side for the rub rail. I still need to do the other side but if feels good to have done one side. I still am not decided on trying to figure a way to glass or make stronger the rub rail. From what I understand, this is supposed to supply structure and I would hate for it to fall apart...

Here are the latest pics of the progress...

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I used Gel Magic and that stuff is like steel.... It also sets up nice and is easy to use.

Now back to building one baby step at a time...

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:26 pm
by Lon
I like this boat. And when done you can sell your clamps and buy a motor. :D :D :D

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:08 pm
by dborecky
Lon wrote:I like this boat. And when done you can sell your clamps and buy a motor. :D :D :D
:lol: My wife took a look at the clamps on the boat and said "what are you going to do with them all when you are done with this boat" I of course said.......... Build another boat of course... :D I don't think she was amused....

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:40 pm
by jacquesmm
A clamps porcupine!!!

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Wow, never seen so many clamps :P

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:34 am
by maxgsx
The old addage

"If a jobs worth clamping, it's woth clamping well"

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:27 am
by ks8
I like this boat. And when done you can sell your clamps and buy a motor.
... a motor ... home! :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's got to be some sort of record. So, how many cpf did you use?

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:34 am
by dborecky
ks8 wrote:
I like this boat. And when done you can sell your clamps and buy a motor.
... a motor ... home! :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's got to be some sort of record. So, how many cpf did you use?
I had some in the garage already maybe 7 or so. I picked up 30 on my way home from work the other week. Last weekend I used the 30+ on the front section of rail and went back to Depot to pick up another 30 for the back half. So more then 60 but less then 70... :wink:

The reason is I wanted the edge to be perfect and needed them in the front so that it would not slide up or down. It worked really well. I could have used less for the back where there is less curve but I had them and just used them as I was working my way from front to back.....

I am a perfectionist. They actually are pretty cheap clamps.

Derrick

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:29 pm
by familyman
Derrick: That is my message with the kids talking. You can either leave on on that line if we are not here or you can try my cell at 727-366-1565.

I wish I would have had half of those clamps! So perfectly lined up too... Monk would be proud.

Later,

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:48 pm
by clearncalm
Hey Derrick, you had such a good thread going it's a shame to loose it. What the current status? I'm building the same model boat and am a little ahead of where you were on your last post. I just wish I could figure out how to post pictures.[/img]

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:26 am
by FLYonWALL9
NO WONDER I can never find clamps :!: :D I guess I am saved
with using wood screws :roll:

The boat really looks good though :wink:

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:56 pm
by clearncalm
Derrick, nevermind about my previous post. I see where you've started a new thread, asking about fairing.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:04 pm
by dborecky
I have been fairing away on the outside. I should be done soon and then can flip and glass the inside.

I can no longer search the forum from work. For some reason the network filters it out when I click on it from the main page. I find this strange as it does not block out other forums. It must be something in the name.

I will keep you all posted on the build.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:28 pm
by timoub007
You may be able to back door it with the old IP addy. Not sure if J and the Webmaster have turned that off or not, but I know it worked for a while anyway.

I hate big brother!

Tim

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:09 pm
by dborecky
timoub007 wrote:You may be able to back door it with the old IP addy. Not sure if J and the Webmaster have turned that off or not, but I know it worked for a while anyway.

I hate big brother!

Tim
Tim,

How would I go about doing that?.... :doh:

Derrick

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:23 pm
by timoub007
I think this is the old 209 IP addy. You'll have to try this at work and see if it works.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/index. ... 5924d08e1d

Only work around I can think of, but still may not work for ya.

Tim

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:54 pm
by dborecky
I have not been on in some time. Other projects took over my life for a little while but back to the boat.

I can only view the forum with Tim's address above but can't sign in to post so have not been active at all. I have some time from work to view and post but by the time I get home I am beat and the last thing I want to do is get on the computer.

Tim, can you tell me how to sign on using another method???????

I can't believe that some of the FS 14's have been built and are now running and Joel has a great looking FS 12.

I think I talked a friend into working on the boat with me on his off week ends. I told him he could use the boat when he wants and that got him motivated.

Build on,

Derrick

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:30 pm
by ks8
Try logging out of Bateau, if you are currently loggen in, and then delete your cookies...

BUT, beware... when you clear cookies, you may lose user and password info from some sites that logged in automatically, which is not a problem if you have them written down to re-enter next time you logon to those sites.

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:08 am
by dborecky
I don't know why but I was able to log in today for the first time in some time from work..... It may be a just luck. I hope not but we will see...

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:41 pm
by dborecky
Soooo... after a long time not doing a thing, I'm now going full bore for the time being. Here is a few pics of my adventures to date. I used the string and screw method to see if the boat was alighned right and put the stringers and frames in to balance it out as well then started the glass work. The high temps prevented us from glassing the whole boat in one shot but I don't think that will effect the strength.

I did use an extra layer of ply for the clamping board and an extra layer of glass tape on the inside and outside edge of the transom edges since I'm putting on a 25 HP. I may put some knees in the transom as well. I have to check with Jacques on that one when I get to that point...

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I was wondering if I need to really grind/sand down the keel where the epoxy had pooled so that I can get the next layer as close to the other glass as possible?????.....

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:04 am
by tech_support
[/quote] was wondering if I need to really grind/sand down the keel where the epoxy had pooled so that I can get the next layer as close to the other glass as possible?????.....

not really necessary here. Ideally you would have all the glass tight and compressed together. With Epoxy its OK, though. Just grind/sand it so that there and hard edges for air bubbles.

Glad to see your back at it.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 am
by dborecky
Joel,

I'm going to light sand the wood that is epoxy coated and dry but do I need to re-wet the coated wood prior to putting the glass down or can I place the glass cloth down on the other side and wet it through the glass?

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:05 am
by dborecky
It has been raining like crazy over here but the up side is that the temp was kept down by the rain.

I decided to take advantage of the rain and glass the other half of the inside of the boat. It took about 3.5 hrs for me and my son to glass half of the inside of the boat. The filet's and tape had already been laid in from the prior session.

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:58 am
by tech_support
Im sure that I am preaching to the choir, but 3.5 hours is too long for one side of the boat 8O

If you want to work faster, mix larger batches (at least 6 oz.) and use a roller or spreader to apply to epoxy. The only way it could take that long would be if you mixed small batches and wet out with a chip brush.

Joel

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:41 am
by dborecky
shine wrote:Im sure that I am preaching to the choir, but 3.5 hours is too long for one side of the boat 8O

If you want to work faster, mix larger batches (at least 6 oz.) and use a roller or spreader to apply to epoxy. The only way it could take that long would be if you mixed small batches and wet out with a chip brush.

Joel
I mixed 12 ounce batches and used a chip brush to work it in. The results look much better then the other side.... I will see what it looks like when it drys.

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:03 am
by dborecky
I am now starting to put the stringers in the boat and have fitted the jig back in the hull with some trimming of the bulkheads. The butt block kind of causes the two middle bulheads to warp some when I put a straight edge to it.... Here are some pics of the latest.

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Soooo that is were I am right now.

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:16 pm
by dborecky
Ok... So I'm now fixing the mistakes I made in the past. I decided to cut the shape of the wood I needed with a jig saw and RO sander to a near fit and then useing Gel Magic to glue them together. Here is a picture of my work so far tonight. I have to wait for it to dry then I will use epoxy/wood flour to fill in any voids and make filets to lay the glass tape and finish up putting in the stringers.....

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Please chime in if anybody sees anything wrong with what I'm doing.....

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:05 pm
by MadRus
I think it looks perfect, just don't forget to do the popsicle stick thing, to avoid a hardspot where the little pieces stick out here and there. You'll be all set now.

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:56 pm
by dborecky
MadRus,

Thanks for the tip. Both stringers are now actually floating on the spot welds I placed to hold them in place. That Gel Magic hardens fast. I was actually just able to take the clamps off and sand down the rough edges where the clamps were. Much easier then waiting till it turns hard as stone....

I'm ready to filet and glass the stringers in. I just have to find the time needed to do it.....

Derrick

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:06 pm
by dborecky
I have now sanded around the stuck stringers and cut the tape for the glass job. Here is the pics of the job so far...

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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:30 pm
by dborecky
Today my son and I taped in the stringers. Wet on wet is that way to go for sure....

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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:05 am
by TomW
Yep, put down the filet then the fiberglass tape. It helps if you have the fiberglass cut to length. Do one side at a time.

Tom

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:06 am
by dborecky
Tom,

We actually put all the filet's down then went back and put down the tape. The tape was premeasured. We did have to touch up the filet prior to the last two sides. It was actually great because my son did one stringer and I was doing the other. Almost twice as fast except I'm still quicker then him.

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:36 am
by dborecky
Joel, Jacques, or anybody,

I am at a point that I need some input. Let me tell you how the boat will be used. I am going to bottom paint the boat and leave it in the water for long periods of time. It will not be covered for the most part and will have no electronics to worry about as I am using a pull start motor. Which means no bilge pump.. 8O I am going to put a sole in the boat above the stringer and fill the area with foam. I would appreciate all ideas at this time.

I need enough foam to keep the boat afloat in the event of a severe summer storm/shower even if the cockpit gets flooded. I need to figure out a way to accomplish this and am at the point of putting the bulkheads in. I would like to keep the foam sealed tight so no water will ever get into it.

Here are some of the ideas I was thinking of.

Compartment one is in front of the front bulkhead. I was going to leave this one empty to the hull with a water tight hatch on the bulkhead face. I would put a hole at the base of the bulkhead and allow drainage to the rear. Now the hard part. I still can't figure out all the drainage issues so help is appreciated.

Compartment two is in front of the bench seat and I was going to foam fill between the stringers and put a sole on top of it. I was going to bypass the compartment with a PVC pipe wrapped taped down with fiberglasss prior to the foam to drain compartment one.

Compartment three is under the bench seat. I was thinking of puttiing foam between the stringers and toping it with a mini sole I would then bypass under it with the same PVC fiberglass tape thing.

Compartment four is between the bench seat and the rear bulkhead. I was going to foam fill between the stringers and put a sole on top. I was going to extend the PVC from the compartment one to drain under this as well. I am putting a water tight hatch in the middle of the bench seat for storage.

Compartment five is the rear deck. I was going to wall off an area for the rear bilge where compartment one drains to as well as the yet not mentioned sole level. I was going to put a large water tight hatch on top of the rear deck. I was thinking of building a a box around where the engine clamps kind of like Joel did to make a bilge area to the floor of the hull. I then need to come up with a plan for the rest of the area. One idea is to add a sole over the stringers around the box and put foam under it as well. I would then do the same PVC fiberglass bypass for the front compartment into the box/bilge in the rear. I just can't picture how this would look or work. Any help would be appreciated.

The sole needs to drain as well. I was thinking of having the area in front of the bench seat drain through a PVC fiberglass arrangment through the bench seat a sole level to the rear of the bench seat then to the rear to the bilge through another PVC fiberglass arrangment. That would leave the bench compartment sealed and dry but I know water can get in there as well from time to time so I need to drain it as well... :doh: Another hole in the rear of the bench seat next to the bypass maybe? :doh: I could then put a plug on the inside of this one to prevent water from coming in from the rear sole?... I would just pull the plug from the inside if water got in the bench seat and let it drain to the rear sole and into the bilge.

Ok that's all I got for now. Is the above drainage idea sound? Will there be enough foam to keep her afloat in the worst case rain filled night?

I have a buddy with an old Boston Whaler and I noted that is was afloat full of water after a bad rain storm in the Keys. In the morning we started it up and got it up on plane. He pulled a plug in the rear compartment and the boat drained right out. That is kind of the goal I'm trying to reach here..... :help:

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:04 am
by jacquesmm
That will be difficult.
The boat is small and you want to find enough volume to support a 25 HP? It is almost impossible.
Solutions would be to raise the sole to an unacceptably high level and/or to fill almost all the space under the rear seat.
Just to fill the seat is not sufficient.
I will have to do complete flooded hydrostatics.

The boat is not designed for what you plan. The engine is too heavy and anyway, it is not designed to drain. There is a limit to self bailing, small boats can't be self bailing with a big engine.
I will try but I need to know the weight of your engine and everything that will be in that boat at the dock.

I have another solution. Since I have the FS12 prototype and want to keep it at my dock, I was faced with the same problem.
I can't pull the boat up the canoe ramp: too wide and I can't put it in the boat lift: I have 2 other boats.
My solution is simple: a davit.
You can buy a small new one for less than $ 1,000.00 or, as I plan to do, fix an old one that my neighboor wants to throw away.
A single davit it sufficient with a properly rigged sling.
The advantage is that with the davit, I can do easy maintenance on the small boats, lift the engine etc.
Please consider that before I do the calculations.

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:16 am
by Cooper
Sorry, double post.

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:20 am
by Cooper
An alternative solution might be this:

Buy a nice battery (the agms from Cabelas are nice). Connect a bilge pump with integrated float switch. Put some hose on the pump so it can reach overboard. Add a cheap solar charger to the battery. You could probably build a wooden battery box with handles and attach the charger to the lid so it's easy to move around. Leave that in the boat when you're not using it.

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:48 am
by jacquesmm
With the rain we have here in the summer (Florida), you will need a larger bilge pump. I would not trust a pump.

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:22 pm
by BruceM
How about a custom canvas cover? I have one on my gv-11 and it only only takes a minute to put it on and off. A couple of bent supports of white oak and the rain sheds fine and any epoxy is sheilded from the sun too as a bonus.

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:43 am
by dborecky
Thanks for all the replies. At this point, I will build the boat as I planned. I cut limber holes at hull level down the middle before deciding to put a sole all the way from the front to back with a small bilge in the rear. I will then put a limber holl at sole level all the way to the bilge. I will fill the floor below the sole with foam.

I only need to tack the front bulkhead in place then I can remove the jig.... 8)

I have decided something here. I really this boat building thing but I hate to fair. I don't think I can express my displeasure to the whole fair thing.... 8O

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:21 pm
by dborecky
I have been slowly plugging away at the boat and now have all the bulkheads taped in.

I'm going to cover them with a light cloth of some type for added protection. I'm not sure what weight or type of cloth to use. I will have to ask Joel/Jacques which would be best for this...

Here are some pics so far.

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Soooo there you have it for now...

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:42 pm
by rjezuit
How thick is that transom? Looks awful wide for a small boat like that. Is that what is specified, or did you beef it up? Rick

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:52 pm
by dborecky
rjezuit wrote:How thick is that transom? Looks awful wide for a small boat like that. Is that what is specified, or did you beef it up? Rick
Rick,

I added an extra layer of ply to the clamping board and an extra layer of biax tape to outside and inside transom edges. I'm may put knees on both rear transom edges and turn them into rod holders. I glassed all the way up from the inside as well.

I did this because I am putting a 25 HP Yamaha two stroke tiller on this thing.

Derrick

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:43 pm
by dborecky
Slow going and here is some new things I'm getting done....

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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:14 am
by mecreature
Looking good.. I am interested to see how this turns out..


I had a good weekend working on the my D-15.. The cooler temps are nice... I have renewed spirit... and a long weekend coming up..

Keep it up..

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:48 pm
by dborecky
OK... Here we are after a long time...... I have been working little by little on the boat. If I didn't have to work sooo many hours, I would have had this boat done ages ago. Here are the latest pics. I would like to get it done for the builders meeing in Crystal River but I'm not sure. I will try.....

The front bulk head with sole and under sole...

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Bench seat sole and under sole...


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Rear deck under sole. The sole for this part is getting the final glass on it so no pics of it in place.

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I extended to sole past the last bulkhead and made a bulkhead the level of the stringers at the point where the stringers make an angle to the transom... Here is the rear sole and under the sole....

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Here is the bow area.

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I need to make a small area that is above the level of the sole behind it so that the water will drain out onto the deck. I will do that next. I will then put foam under all the decks. Then I will flip the boat finish the fair on the bottom and flip it back to glue down the decks and put in the seat top, bow deck, and rear top deck....

Soooooo what do you all think so far???....

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:55 pm
by dborecky
I'm starting to try and get organized since I want to get the boat done by the meeting at the end of April. That sounds like a lot of time but I work about 80 hrs/wk or so on average. This does not give me lots of time to work on the boat and I'm suprised that I have gotten as far as I have.

Here are a few pictures from today.

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Here is my to do list.

1. Finish the cleats in the bow compartment for a floor that will be above the sole behind it.

2. Make a small sole for the bow and glass coat it.

3. Measure the bench seat top and trim the one cut from the plans to fit. Then glass coat it.

4. Measure the rear deck and trim the existing deck cut from the plans to fit and glass coat it.

5. Drill holes for sole drainage in all compartments then..... Fill under all soles with foam and make it flush.

6. Flip the boat before glueing the sole and finish the fair job. I'm still not sure how best to fair after reading and trying this.. I WILL need advice on this. :doh:

How should I support the boat now????.... :help:

7. Install a skeg

8. Prime the bottom

9. Roll and tip the sides and bottom paint the bottom. The boat will be kept in the water for the most part.

10. Flip the boat back and glue in all the soles. Tape all the soles in.

11. Install cleats for the bow deck, bench seat top and rear deck.

12. Fair the inside of the boat.

13. I'm going to put 3 hatches in this boat. One in the front bulkhead, one in the bench seat top, and one in the rear deck top. I was thinking of using these in cream. http://www.armstrongnautical.com/pdf/deckplates.pdf

The 10X20in ones.

14. Fair inside of boat. Prime in all compartments. I was going to use Tuff Coat in cream color on the sole with the outside edges rolled and tipped in cream and the bulkheads rolled and tipped in cream as well as all vertical surfaces.

15. Glue in the front deck, bench seat, rear deck and tuff coat the center with roll and tip outside edges all in cream

16. Put motor on back and launch boat!!!!!!!!!!!

I forgot the front U Bolt and the two rear U Bolts........

Now that I put it all in writing I'm not sure I will be able to get finished by this April....... I may have to get a lift on someones boat at the Crystal River event.......

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:56 pm
by dborecky
I forgot to mention the drain plug.....

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Now that I put it all in writing I'm not sure I will be able to get finished by this April....... I may have to get a lift on someones boat at the Crystal River event.......
Looks real good 8) But I'd bet a case of beer (not Belikin!) that you ain't gonna make it :lol: In which case, you can ride with Tom and I in my GF 16, which is finished.


My list is a lot shorter, and I'd almost bet I won't make it either :cry:
Best of luck with it though. Everything takes me 2- 3 times longer than I estimate before starting a task. I try to get at least one thing, one something done every day, but there are a lot of somethings that go into a finished boat.

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:21 am
by dborecky
Larry,

I'm not sure if that is a good bet or not..... I put in one cleat in the bow compartment and drilled 6x 1.5 inch holes last night. Two more holes in the first bulkhead then fill and redrill to 1" for plugs.

I would like to get the bow compartment cleated and then foam fill the whole thing and flip by this weekend... But we will see..

I may take you up on your offer for a lift if you have room. I do have my wife and child coming so there may not be enough room in your boat.

I may take you up for that case of beer. What do you drink?

Derrick

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:45 am
by davidtx
dborecky wrote:... drilled 6x 1.5 inch holes last night. Two more holes in the first bulkhead then fill and redrill to 1" for plugs...
What are these epoxy lined holes for?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:02 am
by tech_support
davidtx wrote:What are these epoxy lined holes for?
They are the insurance that moister has no way of every getting to your plywood. Its a small extra step, but really is worth while if you want the boat to last a LONG time

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:54 am
by TomW
Yes David I drill them out 2-3 times the size of the screw or fitting and 1/4" past the depth and then once the epoxy is set up drill the epoxy for the screw. This seals the wood.

Like Shine says
a small extra step
but one worth doing.

Tom

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:50 pm
by ks8
Looking like one tough little boat is coming together nicely. :)

I can relate to the work hours. Of course, keep a weather eye on the health and relationships with that sort of schedule. *stuff* can sneak up on you, while you're falling asleep watching tape wetout. I'm tempted to name the next boat, for many reasons, if I can come up with a shorter way of saying it... *we do this together*. :)

I've got much less to do than you or CL, and I question april! But it is possible... hmmmmm.... I forgot a few mods... :help:

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:51 pm
by davidtx
I understand epoxy lining screw holes, but I couldn't figure out why you would line 1.5" holes - those would be some big screws...

-david

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:37 pm
by dborecky
KS,

I will keep you all posted with each step I make. 8O I just may make it. I think it will all depend on the quality of the finish I end up with. I know I could make it with a very rough work boat finish but for a true quality finish like I have seen on here, it may take much longer.

I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to painting. Then again, I had no clue how to build a boat and I think I built a tank instead.... I'm scared to weigh this beast.

Davidtx,

I am putting holes starboard and port on each compartment so that water will drain from the front of the boat at sole level all the way to the rear bilge compartment. I drilled 1.5" holes slightly below the sole level and will fill with epoxy/wood flour mix then after it sets up, I will drill in my 1" holes through it at sole level. Water will then just run to the back of the boat and into that deep area in the back for easy manual pumping out or pulling the plug on the trailer......

Derrick

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:29 pm
by ks8
dborecky wrote:I'm scared to way this beast.
:lol:
dborecky wrote:I am putting holes starboard and port on each compartment so that water will drain from the front of the boat at sole level all the way to the rear bilge compartment. I drilled 1.5" holes slightly below the sole level and will fill with epoxy/wood flour mix then after it sets up, I will drill in my 1" holes through it at sole level. Water will then just run to the back of the boat and into that deep area in the back for easy manual pumping out or pulling the plug on the trailer......
Keep it open and have that fire extinguisher handy. Bilge and proximity to fuel spills or pooling... it seems a good idea to keep it very open and breathable, *just in case*. If there is a rainbow on the bilge water, sponge it out and rinse the sponge. :)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
This is certainly a better bet than I made with Huck :lol: I drink Corona.

5 people in the GF might be tight :help:

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:10 pm
by ks8
If you spill the beer, have a clean sponge to sponge that up, to wring it out back in the glass... :P

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:44 pm
by dborecky
This is what I got for tonight....

Holes drilled...

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Holes blocked with duct tape on one side and filled with epoxy/wood flour..


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ks8,

I was going to plug the boat compartments when it is sitting in the water overnight to reduce the risk of sinking.... I will leave the plugs out when I use the boat. The back deck is open where the engine sits in the deck. I'm not sure where the portable gas tank will be placed yet.

Larry,

I will bring a case of Corona regardless of the winner on this one 8)

Derrick

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:43 pm
by dborecky
The race is on and I may not finish but at least I'm getting stuff done.

Here is what I go so far. Slow steps are adding up... 8O

I made the sole for the bow and glassed it. Here is me putting it together from multiple parts of scrap ply..... I used cardboard to make the shape then traced.

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Drain holes sanded flush after filling with wood flour epoxy..

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I drilled 1" holes at deck level throught the epoxy wood flour filled holes...

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I almost missed on a couple but there is some epoxy wood flour mix between the wood and hole... :oops: I just wonder if it is enough... :doh:


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I then started foaming under the cleats....................

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So Larry........ I am not where I wanted to be at this time but am plugging away....

Don't forget. I am putting a tiller on this thing so I don't have to worry about electronics or steering cables....

Derrick

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:04 pm
by ks8
Have you planned the location of the cupholders yet?

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:22 am
by dborecky
ks8 wrote:Have you planned the location of the cupholders yet?
ks8,

No idea on the cup holders. I may just have to bring a cooler with the holders in the lid... :lol: I do want to put some rod holders in this boat though and have not figured on the best way to do this.

Ideas?

Derrick

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:52 pm
by ks8
Yes, many ideas. They are born out of necessity. With a small boat, it can not be all things to all people all the time. But with some thought, and some universal mounting structures, you can customize it readily for a particular outing based on the likely joys of the crew on that day. My CV16 can become a camper, a fishing boat, a picnic boat, all with reasonable expectation for its small size, with the simple swapping out of a few versions of some accessory structures. It is very easy to do. I can show it better once I get some of them finished myself, but until then, I thought out some positions and incorporated the mounts for those structures into the permanent hull.

I was inspired somewhat by a Renault convertible (we had two), many years ago, that had a soft top and a hard top. In later years they both needed the hardtop, or, the doors could not be opened, since the unibody floor rotted out so badly, but that is another story! Nothing some stout angle iron and aluminum tubing couldn't cure, for awhile anyway.... :lol:

List all the things you'd like to have in the boat.

Then list how many you can reasonable have at the same time.

Then modularize accordingly with the real estate you've got, but with some way to make it all clean even if none of them are installed. When I've got this implemented myself I'll post pictures to show what I mean. For now, have fun with those lists. :)

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
No electronics, no steering :?: No cup holders :doh: Seems almost like cheating. Looks good!

What is your preferred beer?

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:58 pm
by dborecky
Larry,

The lack of moving parts makes for less for my kids to break.. 8) No dead batteries are a good thing as well. I think the fairing/painting will be the hardest part by far.

I usually drink darker beers like Sam Adams Lager or Ale. I drink other dark european beers as well. I will drink a Corona if it is really hot and I'm thirsty.

I work for the next 12 days straight so will have to build when I find the time.... This is what slows me waaaayyyy down...

Derrick

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:35 pm
by ks8
There are several sorts of rod holders. Which sort were you hoping to put in, and how many, and where? Each type mounts differently and therefore may require a particular sort of structure which you would attach it to.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:05 am
by dborecky
ks8,

I'm thinking of 4 - 6 rod holders. I'm just not sure where to put them. I guess I could use the plastic ones mount them to the bulkheads or I may be able to put one along the side about the level of the bench seat. I could also put some in the rear deck on the sides. I do have two Lee brand holders in my garage but they would need to be cleaned up. I think they are stainless.

Derrick

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:04 pm
by ks8
So then I'm assuming they will be *in use and active* rod holders, rather than *stowed away* holders.

Because I enjoy striper fishing, and going for blues, I needed a mounting scheme that could handle a large shock, particularly the way a big blue can hit and run. I did not want that load on the boat's topside panel or directly on the frame, so I will be adding other structures to which the rod holder is then mounted, spreading such loads over a much larger area with no worries at all.

Problem is, with a small boat, you run out of room quickly for such things, and want the install to be as clean as possible. So for me, I have a removeable rear seat/ cooler module, and two rod holders are mounted in that, angled essentially over the transom and away from one another, symetrically, well, close enough because of the offset *kicker* engine. This gets triple duty out of the removeable structure, and looks fairly clean, and definitely spreads the loads around.

With the FS14, you probably have more room than me (no cuddy), but the same ideas might apply, ie, get double or triple duty out of any structure(s) you add, by having some of those rod holders mounted there as well. Of course, you want them in ideal positions, but that doesn't always happen if the best load support is in a less than ideal position. That is where those removeable sort of things come in handy. Let's you put what you want where you want it, just watch the ever disappearing real estate.

Everyone has their own approach. You asked for ideas... :)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:58 pm
by dborecky
ks8,

Good thoughts. I was thinking of one set up on each side in the stern deck for trolling and one on each side above the bench seat from bow to stern for stowing them. The way that this boat is built, I don't think that the stress from a strike will put excessive stress on the deck. I could put a backer plate/block behind the holders in the deck if I have to but I did glass both sides of all decks.

DJB

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:03 pm
by ks8
Sounds like you will be able to have a stompin' good time on the water in that boat! :)

Pictures as you get 'em... 8)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
My GF 16 is a no-frills, no electric, nothing to break kind of boat too. Except it does have a fishfinder/ gps chart-plotter that runs off a lawnmower battery :wink:

I built these rod holders for it using 1 1/2" PVC electrical conduit. Good as store bought, if not quite as pretty. The bases are easy. Just a plywood rectangle, drill a series of holes in a line with a hole saw. Then split the rectangle in half and cut it to size.

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I'll probably have this boat at Crystal River. We've had nothing but cold and rain for the last month and my hull work is getting no where.

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:16 am
by dborecky
Larry,

Looks good. was thinking of something like that but not sure on the placement. I like that camo boat!!! 8)

I was thinking of a mower battery for future electronics. I would add them at a future time if needed.

I have a few questions? What size is that Merc and what's the WOC on that thing? It also looks like you bolted that engine on instead of clamping it on?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:44 am
by Cracker Larry
David, it's a 25 Merc and yes it's bolted on. Not sure what WOC means :doh:

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:05 am
by dborecky
Larry,

oops.... WOT :oops:

Derrick

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sorry Derrick,
With just me, in flat water about 40mph. Too fast. But it tames down to around 30 with 2 people, which is still too fast in most conditions. I never run it wide open except an occasional spurt. With an average load and conditions it will run about 24 at 2/3 power and burn less than 1 GPH.

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:03 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
That Mercury is an amazing engine. I had one on my GV 13 and it was flawless. Would push my boat with 4 adults. Shame they are getting harder to find all the time.

Huck[/u]

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:10 am
by dborecky
Larry,

40mph 8O on a flat bottom boat!!!!!!!!! I bet your chiropractor loves you!!! :lol:

I'm wondering how mine will run with the 25 yamaha on the back. It is turning into one heavy boat. Good thing I beefed up the transom...

I wouldn't mind picking up another new in the box 25hp for later use...

Derrick

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:42 pm
by dborecky
Ok... Here is where I'm at at the moment. I ran out of foam... :cry: I was hoping to finish that part this weekend so I could flip and finish the bottom fairing.

My question is how much more foam do you think I need to buy to finish filling in what I got left????? :doh: I used the full 2 gallons so far...

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The foam comes in half gallon and 2 gallon sizes on this site and I think that a half gallon may not be enough and I know that 2 gallons will be too much....

Do you all have any thoughts????

Derrick

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:06 pm
by TomW
Derrick it looks like you have plenty now to provide full flotation for the FS14. I would get a 1/2 G. put all the scraps in the large forward compartment and start there. Then do the small one. You really do not need to foam all the compartments to meet CG flotation requirements or to keep the boat afloat.

Tom

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:08 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick if your like me, get two gallons. If you are building a livewell or cooler you will need it later. I think a half gallon wil not be enough....Richard

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:11 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Tom you post faster than me. I thought Derrick was trying to fully foam below the sole.

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:04 am
by dborecky
Thanks guys!!!..

I looked on line for local foam and the 1/5 hallon size was 99.00 8O The same thing on this web site is about 33.00. So after a few seconds thought I ordered the 2 gallon kit from here.

Tom, you may be right about the floatation of this boat. I did build it HEAVY which has me worried. I also worry about my kids. If they were to flood the boat in the winter, I want them to be able to get all the way out of the water to prevent hypothermia.

Derrick

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:58 pm
by dborecky
I need some suggestions on how to make the transom edges look better. If you followed the build from the start, you will see that I had to add some height to the transom edges by glueing blocks to both sides due to the sides being too high. I thing glassed over them hole thing and sanded the sides by hand to try shape them the same. I'm not too good at that sort of thing and they don't look great at the moment. They are not equal and I'm not sure how to fix it. Here are pics. They don't show it as good as I would like but you will get the idea.

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Soooooo..... any suggestions on how to make it look "perfect"?????? or at least better?....

Derrick

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:09 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Spread the arc out over a greater distance. Ruff it out with a sawz-all or jig saw. Slick up the top with a belt sander and you will be good. :D ...Richard

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:50 pm
by timoub007
Before you get to sanding or cutting any more off of the high side, find a large piece of cardboard. Trace out the existing shape on to that cardboard and "fix it" on the that. You can easily draw/cut to get the look you want and then transfer that back to the boat. Mark the desired shape with a Sharpie and then sand/cut down to the line.

I agree with Richard about spreading out the arc too.

T

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:46 pm
by dborecky
I had a greater arc going but got too excited with the orbital sander and now I'm getting lower and lower on the stern. I think I need to build up some more hight not sand more down..... :doh:

I don't think I understand what you guys are suggesting....?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:52 pm
by dborecky
Here is a pic of the early fix for the two low transom edges. I then sanded this down to the present shape. I think I sanded too much off on one and they don't match. I'm not sure what you guys are suggesing I do. I like the idea of the sharpie and cardboard shape but not sure what shape would be best.

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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:18 am
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick, try this.

Hold up a piece of cardboard across the back of your transom. Have someone get in the boat with a pencil and outline the transom profile you have now. Using a pencil, sketch what you think looks good on one side. Cut the shape on one side only. Fold the template in half and duplicate the shape to the other side of the template. Put the template back on the transom and mark the new shape of the transom with a sharpie.

This is how we once made egg shaped millwork templates pre CNC router era. Maybe it will work for you :)

Richard

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:24 am
by dborecky
OK.

I have been thinking about this. I am horrible at "free style" wood work. Give me a tool for cutting straight lines with no room for mistake and it will be straight. Free had with a sander and the end result will be poor, especially if I'm trying to make the sides match.

How about if I make a straight line at the rub rail level at the same angle as the rub rail. That would be at a slight upward angle. Then I could just sand a tad bit to get rid of the sharp transition angle on the inner edge??.... Do you think that would look OK? I know that it would not look as nice as a nice flowing arc but I dont think I have the skill to do that by hand. I actually know that I don't have the skill.....

Derrick

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:46 am
by Cracker Larry
I would draw the arc rubrail to rubrail and cut it out freehand with a circular trim saw.

In lieu of freehand, draw and cut a pattern on a scrap of 1/4 plywood. Clamp this pattern to the transom, the width of your saw shoe to blade, below the cut line. Then you can let the saw follow the pattern, just like a curved fence. If you take your time with layout and set up, the cut will be easy.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:22 am
by dborecky
I managed to flip the boat with the help of two friends. That boat is HEAVY..... :oops: The floor is not even in yet.... Oh well....

I found that the rear starboard side is not as fair as it used to be prior to putting in the stringers and bulkheads. I need to figure out how to fair this beast. I'm going to need lots of suggestions as I don't have a clue and am trying to fair as fast as possible.

I can only get 4 ft of the back of the boat level before it starts to rise to the bow and arch slightly. I hope that is enough planing surface. :doh:

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:39 am
by jacquesmm
The last 4 to 6' are the most important.
I wonder why the boat is heavy, it should not be.
I suspect you have been generous with the resin.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:08 am
by dborecky
Jacques,

I did glass all the way up the sides on both sides of the hull and used lots of resin for the inside of the hull. That was not intentional. It just happened. I did use light glass for the bulkheads. I have all cleats for the sole in place and I have foam filling the entire area under the soles. That foam is heavy before it expands. I don't have the sole in yet..... I guess it all adds up.

I will be working on the fairing this weekend.

I think I can get the last 4 feet bow to stern level as can be. I wanted to get 5 feet perfect but I don't think that is possible at this time..... I will work on it and post some pics.

Thanks...

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:54 pm
by dborecky
Here is my attempt at fairing the bottom of the boat. I put on LOTS of fairing material and am just sanding it all away by hand to make a smooth surface. I'm still not sure what I'm doing but I do know that I use A LOT of Quick Fair.

Any comments or suggestions welcome...

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So I'm sanding away and hope to be at the high build primer state very soon......

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:01 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick I think it looks darn good. I really liked the way the quick fair sanded. Are you using a air file to sand? It worked pretty good for me.

Richard

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:25 am
by dborecky
Richard,

I don't know what an air file is. :doh: I'm just using the fairing boards I got here at BBC.

Derrick

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:34 am
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick it's an air powered fairing board. I used it with 40-180 grit 3M paper. Sweet little tool...Richard

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:30 am
by mecreature
Looks like its working to me. Those boards do rip right thru it.

Looks like you might be creating yourself more work then you need though. maybe not...

seems I have been applying to little fairing materials in spots and have to go right back over it with another thin layer.

One thing sure you will get a nice fair surface using that board.

You are getting close. 8)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:55 pm
by dborecky
I had my boys helping this weekend. I continued to sand and fair. I have to say that it is as bad as I remember when the boat was in this position before....

I put a giant dend in the fairing and put a little more to fill in any grooves today. I think I'm almost ready for high build primer. I have to still glue on the middle skeg but I did cut it out of strips of 1/4 inch ply this weekend as well.

Of note, I had these plastic saw horeses and noted that the legs were flexing. It said that it could handle lots of weight.... NOT. I was in the process of building 2X4 saw horses when the rear one gave out and the boat fell on the transom edge. Loud noise but not one got hurt... The transom edge didn't even have a mark...

Here are pics of my middle boy making the saw horses from 2X4s. He was actually making them when the failure occured. If only I could predict the lottery numbers like I could predict the failure of the saw horse...

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It was nice having the two boys working. That son of mine can sure sand with the best of them...

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:12 am
by bernd1
Hi Derrick,

how heavy is our 25PS outborder?.....about 45kg/ 90 Pounds?
Which parts did you change/ add that your boat can support this engine?
Have you thinking about the trim - a lot of weight with you in the stern.

I'm interested about this. Thanks for reply.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:26 am
by dborecky
Bernd,

Here is the numbers as far as the Yamaha outboards go..

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/pr ... specs.aspx

As you can see there is a 26 lb difference between the 15hp and the 25hp. This is for 2 stroke motors.

With 4 stroke motors there is not a significant difference as noted on this page.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/pr ... specs.aspx

I did change the build slightly due to the increased horsepower as follows.

I put three layers of tape on the transom edges both inside and outside and took the glass cloth all the way up the outer transom and the inner transom for a total of 8 layers of glass on the transom edges. I also added an extra layer of ply for the clamping board. I was thinking of putting some knees on the inner upper transom edges but have decided not to at this point. I think it is strong enough as is. We will see.

If I did it again, I would only use 2 layers of tape on the outside and 3 layers of tape on the inside with the cloth all the way up the inner and outer transom. That would make fairing the bottom of the boat easier. I would still add the extra layer of ply for the clamping board.

I also added a sole to the boat covering the entire bottom and filled with foam under the sole. I think this will shift some weight forward and help with any balance issues. I will know for sure once I put the motor in and float the boat.

Derrick.

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:22 pm
by bernd1
Hi Derrick,

thanks for fast reply. About the balance I considered and came to a result that maybe is a step foward.

If the sole isn't glued already you could install a flexible electric pipe from the stern to the front under the sole. In this pipe you could install a fuel tube that comes out of the sole in the front of the boat there two fuel tanks are - you just have to check for enough space.

2 tanks with 25litres about 50kg -the problem occures when one tank is empty (25kg) less weight. But as I said, a little step forward.

Well, I'am sure you will solve this problem if it appears.

Good luck for your further building

Bye
Bernd


:?: :idea:

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:05 am
by dborecky
I have been trying to get this thing ready for April and not sure if I'll make it but at least I'm getting things done. I worked 72 hours last weekend so I was unable to do anything on the boat at that time....

I put the skeg on the boat and didn't round the edges prior with a router... :oops: That caused me to not be able to glass around it and I was going to use a flat plane as suggested but I tried on a board before hand and didn't like the results sooooo..... this is what I did.

I glassed the top surface with 12 oz biax. I waited till that dried trimmed the edges and put a filet down. I then glassed both sides. I trimmed that this morning and noticed a tiny gap on the outer edges. Less then a 1/16 of an inch.... I started thinking :doh: I came up with an idea that I have not seen on the board. I noticed that Gel Magic gets really hard when dry and difficult to sand and wondered how hard it would be if I added some graphite to it. :doh: I had plenty of Gel Magic so I mixed a nice batch and put in about 25% by volume of graphite. I mixed it up and coated the whole skeg with the thick mixture... 8) I will wait till it is semi cured and sand lightly then fair with quick fair.

I have also been sanding my butt off on the sides while the skeg is being put on. I am almost at the point of good enough.. :roll: I may have to just accept some non fair areas or never get done. I just don't know how much the high build primer will fix. I guess we will see. I wish one of you experienced guys could see it in person and tell me when enough is enough..... :(

Here are a few pics of where I'm at..

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There you have it. The sides are more fair then in the first photo as I sanded a lot while the glass was being applied to the skeg..

Derrick

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:06 pm
by JASmine
Derrick
I'd love to stop by and see your work. Is that possible?

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:14 am
by dborecky
JASmine wrote:Derrick
I'd love to stop by and see your work. Is that possible?
JASmine,

No problem! I would love to have you over to take a look. I'll email you my cell phone number for you to contact me. If you don't get the email, let me know.

Derrick

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:31 pm
by donk
Derrick, I was going through your site and came across the picture of the clamps. Made me smile, my wife and I were checking out a new store in town, "Ollies", one step up from dollar general, anyway they had six packs of clamps for $2.99, I put 4 packs into the cart. I was thinking of ya bud!! My wife asked what I was going to do with them, when I told her I'd need them for the boat I was going to build, her reply was "WHAT BOAT"!!!

To late now, it's started.
'
don

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:18 pm
by dborecky
Donk,

I did go crazy with the clamps but they were cheap and it was easy to keep the rail going exactly the way I wanted that way.

I would love to see pics of your build. If you find some time, which I know can be a challenge if you are like me, you can either post them on this site or a site like photobucket. I found that one easy due to the automatic sizing.

Wait till your wife gets wind of your next build. I know a great way to get her going...... Order a set of plans and see what she says.. 8)

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:06 pm
by dborecky
My plan for this weekend is to put all the high build primer on the hull. The skeg took longer then I thought to finish but I finally did. I did not have time to do the primer today and am planning to do it staring in the morning. I figured that since the hull was ready I would add a little graphite and epoxy to the rub rail and the last 3-4 feet of hull bottom. I heard that this could be a good thing in case of grounding. I figure it will be the last barrier of defense.

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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:12 pm
by dborecky
I tried to get 4-6 coats of high build primer on the boat but the temp today alowed for only 3 coats of primer. I did put them on heavy and hope that it is enough..... We will see. I had more left in the container and hate to waste that stuff but it got too late and it will have to just harden in the container.

I used a larger roller the yellow thin one. It did leave roller marks on the boat. I hope I can sand it in a few days.

Derrick

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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:11 am
by mecreature
Looks good to me..

So you priming and painting over the Graphite/epoxy on the bottom?

How was the epoxy/graphite to work with.

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:19 am
by donk
I'll be glad when mine gets to that point!!! Looking good!

I'm about ready to start glassing. So far so good.

don

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:36 am
by bernd1
Hi Derrick,

nice boat - If you visit Germany I invite you for barbeque and painting :lol:

I'am curious how the boat is running with your 25PS engine - fasten your seat belt, stop smoking, check your oxygen mask.....ready for take off. :wink:

.....good work.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:50 pm
by dborecky
mecreature wrote:Looks good to me..

So you priming and painting over the Graphite/epoxy on the bottom?

How was the epoxy/graphite to work with.
The epoxy/graphite is very easy to work with. I mixed it about 25% graphite by volume and it actually makes the mix slippery. I rolled it on with a tight foam roller sold here and it came out very nice. I only put one coat on and I did not sand it much. If you sand it, I would do that sooner then later. The longer you wait the harder it gets to sand.

I put it under because I wanted to work on the boat and I didn't have time to prime that day sooooo...... I made up something to do. It will only provide protection for the inner layer if the outside is scratched/gouged to that level. 8O

Don,

Keep it up and you will be where I'm at in no time...

Bernd,

I can't wait to see what she will do. I'm going to have to weigh this thing when I'm done to see how over build I made her. I think she will still go pretty good with the 25hp.

I will take you up on the BBQ if/when I make it over to Germany. I can even throw a few strokes of paint on for ya... :D

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:02 pm
by dborecky
I need to sand the high build primer off as soon as possible but have only a little time after work to do it. I was able to do almost half the boat tonight and hope to do the other half tomorrow night. Here is where I'm at so far...

I used 220 grit sandpaper because I get over excited and didn't want to take off too much. I have a quesion? :doh: Do I need to rough it up prior to adding another few coats of high build epoxy primer?..

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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:18 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick, as cool as it is just put on more primer if you need to. The S3 gray primer dries so slowly that I am sure you are ok. If you feel you need to ruff up with 220 grit then that is ok. The boat is looking good. :D

Fair on ye mighty sailor :P May the fairing gods smile on thee :D

Richard

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:01 am
by dborecky
Rich,

I'm using Sterling High Build primer not S3. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:44 pm
by dborecky
Another step reached today. I'm 98+% finished fairing the outside of the hull and a friend let me borrow a trailer to put the boat on while I finish it. I was able to get another friend to help me flip it to finish the inside. Here are some pics of todays damage. :lol:

Cracker Larry..... I'm getting closer... 8)

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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:32 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick, looks good. You gotta be happy right now. :D

Any chance you can strap a motor on the boat and take CL'S cerveza at the meet? That would be a gigantic accomplishment. 8)

Good luck.....Richard

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:32 am
by dborecky
Richard,

I'm trying to get this thing done but I have my doubts. I'm going to glue and tape the sole in this week. I will then need to glue the rear deck/mid seat/front deck cleats on. Then glue/tape the decks on. I then have to fair the inside and paint.

I am trying to get it done though. I may have to just get Cracker Larry's beer ready... :oops: But then again.... I may pull it off and have it ready... 8)

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:14 am
by donk
Derrick,

Looking like a boat to me!!

Keep on keeping on, with a little luck you'll get er done by the meet.

don

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Cracker Larry..... I'm getting closer...
You sure are, but so is April 25 :lol:

The hull fairing looks great!

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:16 pm
by dborecky
I had to work all weekend..... :? I was able to glue the whole sole in though and start to fill the gaps with epoxy/wood flour mix with the little time I had. Here is where I'm at..... I ran out of 12 oz biax tape... I was pre cutting for the deck when I ran out.

Cracker Larry,

It is going to be a very tight thing but I just may make it.....

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Slowly plugging away....

Derrick

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:35 pm
by dborecky
I was able to glue/filet and tab the whole sole in. I was able to trim the front casting deck to size and glass one side tonight after work. I am going to try and sand the inside hatches and coat with pigmented epoxy during the week. I will then put the cleats in for the two deck and middle seat top. I still need to trim the rear deck to size and cut the whole for the engine and all the hatches.....

The list just goes on and on..... :roll:

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I'm working overtime but may not finish by the meeting...

Derrick

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:19 am
by chicagoross
"The list just goes on and on..... "

Yeah, buddy, that just about sums up this disease we all have...
:D

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:59 pm
by dborecky
I think CL is going to get his case of beer but I will keep on plugging away. I worked on it this weekend and here is where I am.

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There is only one coat of beige epoxy in it. I put one teaspoon of pigment in an almost full clear plastic cup. the small ones. That was enough for a single coat using the white foam roller.

Here is a question. I used 12oz biax on the bottom of the seat and 6oz cloth on the top of the seat. The lid I'm using won't work if I frame it out with a wood frame. :doh: I think the seat top is very stiff as is. I wonder if it will be too weak? :doh:

Derrick

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:24 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Derrick, the boat is looking great :D . You wil be fine with your seat with that heavy biax on the bottom.

You put up a good fight, but I think you may have to pay up on the bet :P

AA

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
It is indeed a good fight, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings :lol:

Boat looks great though. Don't rush it. The finish and details take longer than the actual building. The seat will be plenty strong enough.

This works out good for me, since I lost a case to Huck. Huck wants Belikin, are you going to Belize in the next week by any chance :P

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:16 am
by TomW
Derrick looking good. Yes take your time, the finish work does eat up the time and requires the most detail.

If you have a trailer go ahead and bring her as is if you don't mind it will give some of the guys that are new or thinking of building something a chance to peak into the inards of a partially done boat.

Tom

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:47 am
by dborecky
Richard,

Thanks. I thought it was stiff enough.

CL,

I'm still going to continue to work on it but I will put a case of Carona on Ice just in case...

Tom,

I was going to trailer it but I need to have the front eye and rear eyes to secure it to the trailer prior to dragging it anywhere......


Derrick

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 pm
by donk
Derrick,

Keep pluggin. You just might get er done.
Anyway it's good to see your back at it. I like seeing the pictures, gives me something to shoot for.

I gave up on fairing, tired of putting on expensive stuff then sanding it off, followed by putting on more. Decided to flip it, complete the inside and that will determine how well I finish the outside.

don

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:47 am
by dborecky
donk wrote:Derrick,

Keep pluggin. You just might get er done.
Anyway it's good to see your back at it. I like seeing the pictures, gives me something to shoot for.

I gave up on fairing, tired of putting on expensive stuff then sanding it off, followed by putting on more. Decided to flip it, complete the inside and that will determine how well I finish the outside.

don
I can understand the flipping. I did the same thing. The boat then started to get heavy and I flipped finished the fairing at that point. I realized I have to put it in the water to find the water line before I can paint it soooo..... I have to finish the inside and flip again to paint...

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:18 pm
by dborecky
I was able to do a little work on the boat this week. Not much but some. Here is a pic of the seat area with three coats of epoxy with beige pigment. This is a very rough fair job as I did not want to waste time under the seat.

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Joel told me about these flip up cleats that just require two holes to install. I ordered them and got them the next day. I was not sure what to expect but they are fantastic looking in both quality and function. I was very impressed. Here is a shot of one of them.

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Keep building,

Derrick

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:48 pm
by ks8
Under the seat looked ok with one coat, but three coats sure covers better. Looks good! Nice cleats too. 8)

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Love the epoxy pigment in the lockers. I did it and have been very happy with it.

Those happen to be the same cleat's I used and they are great! Your boat is looking really good. Kinda' making me want to build one!

Take your time and you will be happier in the end!

Huck

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:25 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Any building recently? You know summer is here and those boys are going to want toys to play with!

Weather and boat have both been great. I/We have put 20-30 hrs on since the meet and hope for a great summer. I am starting to plan some fishing trips with friends and hope to see you guys again this summer. We might need to plan a trip to Savannah for canoing with CL. We could be his first booking!

Huck

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:31 am
by dborecky
Daniel Huckleberry wrote:Any building recently? You know summer is here and those boys are going to want toys to play with!

Weather and boat have both been great. I/We have put 20-30 hrs on since the meet and hope for a great summer. I am starting to plan some fishing trips with friends and hope to see you guys again this summer. We might need to plan a trip to Savannah for canoing with CL. We could be his first booking!

Huck
Daniel,

How are you guys doing?!!!!!!!!!!!

I have done a little building but not enough. I hit a wall with the new puppy in the house.

I have drilled out the rear bilge hole and the holes for the bow eye. I have to still drill out the hole for the two transom eyes. I have not figured out how I'm going to get the front eye on from the inside. :doh: I don't know if a wood wedge or a metal wedge would be best.

I did drill out and fill and redrill holes for the cup holders and the rod holders. The rod holders will be sticking up above the rear of the bench seat some. I had to do that or I would not be able to clean under them. They will be mounted on either side of the rear seat.

I need to really hit it hard because my oldest kids will be here starting 20 June and I would like to have it done by then.

Did you pick up the Strike. I looked at them and they look pretty nice.....

I am planning a week trip to the Keys the end of July if you guys are interested.

A trip to see CR would be great as well. Maybe a long weekend?

Derrick

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:14 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
We are doing well. Sounds like you are still making progress. A little is better than none!

Our school's are done this week (I think) so it had me thinking your deadline might be sooner.

Don't know what to tell you about the bow eye as I have yet to do a conventional one :? . I think CL did a nice shot of how his was done with a wood wedge. Maybe Wobbly as well. They looked good to me.

Probably won't make the key's trip. Crystal River will definitely happen again, though. We are contemplating another tow vehicle so we will probably wait until then to do another long trip.

No progress toward the Strike yet. I am trying to get something done on my old speedboat before I bring another one home. I should really go make a deal with the guy before he lets it go to someone else, though.
Problem is, I just found out I will be moving in my job soon so I won't be home like I am now :cry: . I will have to figure something out, I guess. One of the places I could be going we (coworkers) and I have a house rented that has a large, vacant tractor shed on the property....just right for a rebuild away from home!

Huck

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:10 am
by dborecky
I have been working slowly on the boat. I had to go to Miami this past weekend to listen to my older son play electric guitar in a competition...

I have rigged the front for the bow eye. I put a strip of wood with two over sized holes drilled in it. I did not wedge cut it but just put tons of wood flour expoxy on the back to fill the gap and pushed it in place. I then put duct tape on the bow eye bolts and pushed them in place. I squirted in wood flour epoxy into the holes around the bolts in the front and back trying to avoid any air. I came back later in the day after it had set up and realized I couldn't get the eye out. I had to take a wood block and hammer on the inside bolts to get it to budge. I kept on and it finally came out. I'm glad I didn't wait till it was fully cured or it would have stayed as is. I then fileted and glassed over the wood last night. i will drill out the holes throught the glass. I drilled and filled four 7/8" holes in the stern for the back eyes. Slow but steady and I may have a boat very soon.

Daniel,

Why don't you and Jessica plan a trip over to my place? We can get a room ready and you can put your boat behind the house. I think you would like the area. Let me know and we can plan it.

Derrick

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:56 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
We will. Just waiting to see what my work will be bringing in the near future. Then we will plan some trips.

Daniel

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:50 pm
by dborecky
OK....

I hung the engine off the back to see how big a hole I would need to cut in the deck for it to drop into...... Guess what :doh: It hangs on the back without any hole cut into it.

Now the question is do I leave it without a hole cut in it and have the ability to seal it. I would just put a hatch in the top or do I put a hatch and cut a hole in the back. I could also put a small hole that I could seal for the gas line to go into.... :doh:

I also don't know which fin is supposed to be level with the bottom of the boat..... I think the transom may is too high... 8O I DO NOT want to have to cut the transom down!!!!! :(

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Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:15 pm
by Lon
Cavitation plate is first big plate above the prop. Looks to be about 1 1/2" below the bottom in your photo.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:58 pm
by jayb01
I believe that the motor is too low. Most need to have the bottom even with the cavitation (bottom) plate.

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:11 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
She's too low, my friend. Lon and jay have it right. I guess I will have to drive down and help you hang that engine. Let's pick a weekend VERY SOON! You've done well and I would skip the cut-out in the deck if you can tilt the engine up. I have some idea's/opinion's for the fuel line if you need them.

Huck

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:46 am
by TomW
Hi Derrick, I just got back from a couple of weeks goofing off. Your boats looking good, guy. Agree with everyone, you need to raise the motor a couple of inches so the large cavitation plate is even with the keel.

Best to all of you.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:34 am
by bernd1
Daniel Huckleberry wrote:She's too low, my friend. Lon and jay have it right. I guess I will have to drive down and help you hang that engine. Let's pick a weekend VERY SOON! You've done well and I would skip the cut-out in the deck if you can tilt the engine up. I have some idea's/opinion's for the fuel line if you need them.

Huck
.....that's interesting - I got the technical manual from Honda, Yamaha and Mercury - and there were always a few inches distance between keel and cavitation plate.

In some cases about 1 inch inan other case were 2 inch recommended.
I will search these drawings and post it.

Derrick, the boat looks good - hope to see it floating soon :)

Bye
Bernd

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:09 am
by chicagoross
My mercs (30hp and 40 hp) manuals both said 0 - 1" below the boat hull; at 0" I had a little cavitation at high speed and had to lower to 1"; it was on a flat boattom boat if that makes a difference.

That said, that looks like more than an inch...

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:04 am
by bernd1
..here they are

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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:15 am
by dborecky
Thanks for all the input...

Daniel,

I forgot to tilt the motor when I had it on the boat... :oops: I will have to throw it back on and take some measurments of the distance from the bottom of the boat to the cavitation plate. Then we will know the actual distance.

I was thinking of a water tight fitting in the back to allow the fuel line to run into the back compartment.

Daniel, just tell me what weekends work for you and we will make it happen.

Bernd,

Thanks for the info.

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:21 pm
by dborecky
I am trying to finish this boat in the next couple of weeks. My boys are over for 5 weeks and I would like them to be able to use it for most of that time......

I did manage to do some more work today. I have the hatch thing figured out. I have two 6 gallon and one 3 gallon tank that will fit in the back hatch.

I was able to rough fair and epoxy pigment the inside of the last two compartments. I glued the front casting deck and the bench seat on. I now need to

Glass tape the front deck and bench seat on.

Cut the opening for the rear casting deck hatch.

Put in all brass drain tubes

Fair the inside and paint.

Float the boat, mark it then flip and bottom paint and side paint.

Glue and glass tape the rear deck.

Hang the motor at the proper distance and............. DONE..

Not many more things left.

Here is pics from this weekend.

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There you have it!!!!

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:45 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Looks good, Derrick. I know the boys will be excited as will Jen. The list is great. Chem them off one at a time and before you know it, it's done.

Huck

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:51 pm
by TomW
Derrick you'll be done in no time with that short list. Hope you get some time off when your boys are over. Have fun with them they grow up so darn fast.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:02 am
by dborecky
I started to fair the inside of the boat on Sat with my son. I decided to put the boat in the water on Sun to mark the water line. I had the motor on the boat and a full of gas sooooo..... I decided to see how she ran. The back deck was not in place. She gets up on a plan fine with me and my two kids with some pep. I did not push the motor as I was breaking it in. We ran if for about 1 hr then back to the dock. My wife then wanted to go for a ride. So it was my three sons, my wife and I in the boat. It lost a lot of its pep with that much in the boat but was still able to get on a plane. I finally marked the water line with a half a tank of gas and no gear in the boat. I will be glueing in the back deck and tapping it in the next few days.

I did have a whole drilled in the rear transom the was slighly smaller then 1" and put one of those self expanding screw in rubber stoppers to block it. I think that some water was able to make its way in the bilge through it so I am going to just glue in a brass tube to block the area up and hope it does not corrode on me...

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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:55 am
by tech_support
:D Maiden voyage! Congratulations

Dont mean to rain on the parade, but when I read
The back deck was not in place.
I got a little nervous - the casting deck glassed to the transom/sides provides for some stiffness. There was a post this morning on the same issue with another fs14.

I know you over built your transom, so in your case I'm sure th boat was fine. Most of our boats are monocoupe in design, so all the pieces bonded together give the stiffness

Joel

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:09 am
by dborecky
joel,

I must have made it pretty thick as I could not detect any flex at all despite the fact that the back deck was not in place. The boat is overbuilt and heavy. I'm almost scared to weight it... :help:

The lamination for the back was three layers of biax tape inside and out of transom. An extra layer of ply for the clamping board and I put the cloth all the way up both sides of the transom.

I did see the other post as well about the FS14 and transom flex. I could jump on my transom and not notice any flex. When I get my rear deck glued and taped the thing will be a tank!!! I could even hang a 40 on the back..... 8) :lol:

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:37 am
by steve292
Congratulations!
I have followed this thread,& know how hard you have worked to get this far.Well done ,the boat looks good,I hope you and your boys enjoy it.
Regards,
Steve

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:07 am
by donk
Derrick,

You got yours in the water a long time before I'll get mine done. It looks good and it floats, don't get much better than that.

Enjoy, don

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:08 pm
by rjezuit
Nice looking boat. I guess that could be called a "workboat finish" on the interior. Any idea on speed? That 25HP looks like alot on a boat that size. It must scream with a light load.Rick

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:12 pm
by dborecky
rjezuit wrote:Nice looking boat. I guess that could be called a "workboat finish" on the interior. Any idea on speed? That 25HP looks like alot on a boat that size. It must scream with a light load.Rick
The boat is not finished yet. I was just putting it in the water to know the water line for painting of the hull bottom. The back deck is not even glued/taped yet. It was just sitting on the cleats.

I have no idea as to speed. The motor was new in the box and I was breaking it in. I did not push it. When I finish the boat, I'll bring a GPS and see what she does. "Workboat finish" would at least have some sort of paint for UV protection...... My son and I have not decided if we are going to go textured throughout the inside or go all out smooth like the outside.... I'm thinking non-skid the whole inside with the product sold here and be done with just a little more fairing...

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:20 pm
by TomW
Derrick glad you were able to finally able to get her on the water. Sounds like the 25 is just right with 4 people. I'd use nonskid on everything but the seats. Moving on them can be a pain with nonskid all though not bad if you put a coat of cleat coat over the nonskid.

Say hi to Jen.

Regards,

Tom

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:58 pm
by fishingpix
Congratulations on the sea trial Derrick! It may have made shine nervous about the back deck, but I was happy to hear that it supported the load since I'm putting the 20hp 4 stroke on mine... after I add another 3/4" thickness to the transom and a couple gussets as recommended. I'm curious, how thick is your clamping board?

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:05 am
by dborecky
David,

I'm not sure of the total thickness. I laminated it just like the plans said to but with the addition of an extra layer of ply. I did put a large filet at the lower edge of the clamping board and glassed up the inside surface. I did not add any additional wood layers to the transom itself just the clamping board.

I hope this helps.

I can tell you that when I cut out the hole for the drain plug at the bottom, it was pretty thick as designed.

Let me know and I can measure the thickness for you if you want.

Derrick

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:14 pm
by fishingpix
Thanks Derrick. No need to measure, I was just curious. I've added a 1 inch piece of mahogany to mine and I was thinking about doing what you have done with the fillet under the clamping board and then glassing over that before I put in gussets. Gotta go back to the wood flour well...

-David

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:40 pm
by dborecky
I am now done with all the glass work. The rear deck has been glued and glassed today. That Gel Magic sure sets fast in these hot Florida days.... I was able to glue it at about 1230 pm and it was set enough by 530pm to filet and tape in the rear deck...... Now all I have to do is fair the inside, prime, paint, and put the hardware on.....

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:08 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
She looks great, Derrick! I know you will be glad to get her done. It must be rewarding to work with your sons like that. I know they are proud of what you/they are doing, as well.

BTW, are you planning on taking it on the Key's trip?

Also, did you like how well the Gel Magic worked? I have been considering springing for it to glue the sole in on the Pachanga. Do you think it is worth it, and how far do you think it went?

Thanks, and good luck

Huck

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:21 pm
by dborecky
Huck,

Thanks. I don't think we are taking it to the Keys but I may see if a friend can tow it down. I will be towing the big boat. There another group going with us that is not bringing a boat and I may have them tow it.

The Gel Magic is some awesome stuff. Very tuff and strong. A bitch to sand. I would highly recommend it. I don't know how far it goes though. I use way too much of every thing. I have not done a cost comparison on mixing your own VS Gel Magic. I think you can get away with less Gel Magic. The stuff is tough as nails.

Derrick

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:40 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Ease and speed are VERY IMPORTANT when working alone, one might say priceless. I think I will give it a shot.

Have a great trip. Hope to see you in August. We will be in Maine until at least the 10th but we will plan to be down some time during the month.

Huck

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:14 am
by dborecky
I had two coats of Sterling on the sides but lots of dust specks and some small runs. :oops: I have less then ideal conditions to work in. The garage is cramped with poor lighting and LOTS of dust from prior sanding. I sanded down the boat and went to far in a few spots going down to the primer. :oops: I got the boat ready for painting friday night and put four coats on over the weekend. I kept the garage door closed the whole time and did not go into the garage except to paint. The lighting is poor and it was hard to see the side to tip it..... ANYWAY... I looked at it last night when I got home from work and guess what??... Dust specks and a few small runs but also a few spots that looked like either I missed the tiping due to poor lighting or something got on it between the coats. There are only two or three of these spots and they are no bigger then 2-3 inches or so. I'm almost out of paint but I do have good coverage. I think I will just leave it dust and all. I need to put the bottom paint on next and flip.

Derrick

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:42 am
by TomW
Derrick this may be to late for your lighting problem, but I solved mine by going to Lowes and Walmart and getting 6 of the flood type lights with the reflectors and clamps on them. They have about a 10' cord with them and then putting 23watt flourescents in them which is the equivalent of 100W regualar bulb. Led them all to a common HD extension cord hung in the rafters which went to a plug.

Tom

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
I want to hear a swordfish story, Derrick. Did you catch any?

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 am
by dborecky
Cracker Larry wrote:I want to hear a swordfish story, Derrick. Did you catch any?
Larry,

I was not able to fish like I wanted to. I had to ferry the family to the reef and sand bar and Key west and..... Out of the 7 days I fished 1.5 days. The 1/2 day was running out to try for daytime swords. We dropped a rig down 1500ft to the bottom. We did 2 drifts in one spot and 2 drifts in another spot. We had one hit at about 1450 feet that really shook the rod but did not hook the fish. The Squid was half gone.... The guy I was with was not into it like I was and wanted to try something else so we went to deep drop in 600 feet and picked up some Snowy grouper/ Grey tile fish/ and Rosies.

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
Oh well, at least you caught some fish.

Sorry we couldn't get together for dinner.

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:16 pm
by dborecky
I was able to paint the sides with Sterling and then put three coats of bottom paint on. Now I will flip Prime and paint the inside and put on the hardware. Fit the motor and done...... 8O

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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:45 pm
by ks8
That is some glossy paint. Nice. :)

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
Looks real good Derrick 8) But your garage is a mess :help:

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:59 pm
by ks8
And the healthy population of fishing poles...

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:50 am
by Daniel Huckleberry
Derrick

I dare you to wear that life jacket that's under the transom! Makes me itchy just looking at it!

The boat looks great. Can't wait to see it.

Huck

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:36 pm
by dborecky
KS8,

The paint is glossy but has lots of dust... I was going to buff it out with wet sanding and then polishing but decided I can always do that after my boys learn to drive the boat. :lol: Every rod has a different use and you can never have too many rods... 8)

Larry,

I'm waiting to get the boat out of the garage then your being invited to the garage organizing party!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

Huck,

That life jacket may be itchy. I will use it for show when the cost guard shows up for a safety check.

We need to get together!!!!!!!!!! :idea:

Derrick

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:50 pm
by dborecky
I worked on the boat this weekend. I can't believe all the little details that need to get done to get the darn boat done...... I drilled and filled and sanded and drilled lots of little holes for the hardware before the final fairing and high build primer. Then sand and paint.....

Here is what I got so far.

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That last shot shows a hole that I decided to place in the rear deck. I am going to put a bulkhead fitting here so that I can have a water tight fuel line going from inside the rear compartment to the engine. It is an Idea I think will make for a clean deck.

Derrick

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:59 pm
by dborecky
I think I have the longest build for the FS14. I was one of the first to start these plans.... :?

I was able to fair and sand the inside and finally said good enough and put on one coat of Sterling high build primer with a white cigar roller, one with a thick larger roller, and a final coat with a cigar roller. It is thick enough I think.... :doh:

It actually looks really good. I wish I didn't have to sand and paint it.... :(

Here are the pics of the build to date... :P

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Lots of pics but I couldn't resist the ones with my son in them.... :lol:

I'm so close to done that I can taste it.... 8)

Now........ Which boat should I start next???? :doh: :help:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:44 am
by ks8
Now that you know the fs14... build another one. Should take a couple weeks, else be done by the time your son is driving. :)

Looks real clean! 8)

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:41 am
by tech_support
looks great. Very impressive level of finish for a first build :!:

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:02 pm
by donk
You can finally see the light. It's looking real sweeeeeet!!!

I was going great guns until I erupted. I developed a rash on my forearms, between my fingers and on my forehead. Damned if that isn't exactly where System Three says you will develop an allergy. I went to an allergist just for confirmation and sure enough her response was that she had never seen a reaction as bad as what I had, had to show me off to the entire staff.

I've got the bottom faired, under the circumstances, good enough. I need to prime and paint then flip and put on the seat tops, prim and paint and she'll be done.

This will slow me down but it won't keep me from completing the build.

Again, good job.

don

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:10 pm
by Pat4
looks very good!!! Nice paintjob!

After 1 year with a 9,9 HP motor on my boat I'm switching to the same as you've got; a 25 HP.
I'm now making some adjustments because of the extra weight I'm going to hang on to the boat.

I'm a little concerned about the weight but 'I have a need for speed' :D

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:16 pm
by TomW
You asked for it here goes the PH18 or XF20 for the flats, something in between your big boat and the FS14, the HM19? :lol:

You are doing a good job Derrick, nice to see your family again and hope all is well with all.

Tom

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:57 pm
by dborecky
ks8,

I think one model of the FS14 is enough. I would want to make a different boat. :P The little guy would be driving at this rate...

Joel,

Thanks for the compliment. :)

Donk,

That is a shame about the allergy. I hope you can stay safe and still build. Winter building in a full suit may be an option.

Pat4,

The 25 is a great motor. It looks like you have a 4 stroke. That is heavier then mine. I can't wait to get performance numbers on mine. I did build the boat very very heavy so we will see how she runs...

Tom,

I have both of those plans along with the TX 18 and a GV11 among others.... I do have eveything I need to build a GV11....... I was thinking of making a very light model with work boat finish in record time from start to finish..... We will see....

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:14 pm
by Pat4
watch this. Yours is going to be faster (less lbs for your engine)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikn4eaPbH3M

Patrick

Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:44 pm
by TomW
dborecky wrote:Tom,

I do have eveything I need to build a GV11....... I was thinking of making a very light model with work boat finish in record time from start to finish..... We will see....
Let's see Derrick? record time? 2 yrs? :lol: :lol: :P :P

Go for it guy your boys will love it!

I'm not one to talk I started the repairs on the Mirror late last year and still haven't finished her. Part was weather last spring(to cold couldn't heat the garage enough). Part other things coming up. Part procrastination on my part.

Tom

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:10 am
by dborecky
Pat,

That is some great video!!! 8)

What kind of prop do you have on the boat and how far did you set your cavitation plate from the bottom?

Tom,

I think you win as far as time for a build...... I know I will have this boat done and may have a second one done before you finish with any of yours... 8O :lol:

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:50 am
by Pat4
dborecky,
It's the 'standard' prop on a 25 hp 4 stroke Bigfoot Mariner/mercury. (don't know which prop that is )
The cavitation plate is about a half inch below the bottom of the boat.

I think I have to bring more weight in front... a little twist of gas and the boat has an uprise of 30 degrees.
Just a little bit more gas an she planes.
Until around 5 mph she stays horizontal (above that speed I can't look over the bow when I'm sitting) and over 13, 15 MPH she planes. So that makes it difficult to go on speeds between 5 and 15 MPH.
I think extra weight in front is the answer...

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:00 am
by gk108
A doel-fin or similar might help the pitching up problem, but you would lose a little off the top speed.
That was a cool video. No question about why it's a Fast Skiff 14. 8O

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:29 pm
by dborecky
I had some time this afternoon to do some final work on the boat.

I was able to tape off the area for the Kiwi Grip. I then had to sand inside the tape and up to the tape edge. I don't know how to do that without messing up the tape so I had to patch the tape that I over sanded on..... :oops: I only had a few small spots of tape messed up. I think it will be ok. I will take a picture of the tape job before applying the KG for you all to see what I'm doing.

I was hoping to get some done but it got too late....

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Derrick, sorry I missed your call earlier. The taping takes a long while doesn't it :lol:

Are you using 3M blue tape? I didn't have any trouble with the sander tearing the tape.
.. a little twist of gas and the boat has an uprise of 30 degrees.
Just a little bit more gas an she planes.

Until around 5 mph she stays horizontal (above that speed I can't look over the bow when I'm sitting) and over 13, 15 MPH she planes
That's normal for a small boat with some HP. My GF 16 does the same thing and it's got a Doel Fin. She either wants to plane or she wants to idle, not much in between. The trim is perfect at idle or planing. In between is useful for pulling the plug and draining shrimp water :wink:

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:26 pm
by dborecky
I had some time today so I plugged away at finishing the details. I taped the boat the other day and sanded it. I then washed it with denatured alcohol with the wipe on wipe off method.

I put the Kiwi Grip on and pulled tape all afternoon with only a few defects that are hard to tell and maybe only I and those in the know can see.... :?

Here are the pics of todays work....

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There you have it. Now I wait for it to dry really well before starting to put on the hardware.... I'm just not sure how long I have to wait.. :doh:

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sweet 8) Give it a couple of days.

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:06 pm
by Gramps
Geez you guys are killing me. Great work D! 8)

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:09 am
by steve292
Thats nice work. How did you find the Kiwigrip to work with?
Steve

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:57 am
by dborecky
Steve,

The Kiwi Grip is easy to work with. I put it on like Joel/Shine showed us and it worked really well. First you plop a buch on and then you spread it out with a trowel. I used the West Marine small plastic one. I used the medium teeth. Joel used the small teeth when he showed us. You then used the special roller to put on the texture you want. The lighter the end pressure the less the texture.

The problem is getting the tape off without touching the wet KG you just placed and messing it up.... I did that only a few times.

The stuff does dry fast depending on the temp but I had plenty of time putting it on with a temp of about 85 degrees or so and moderate humidity. Do not put it on in direct sun or it will dry very fast and you will not have time to deal with it....

Good luck.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:47 am
by tech_support
Everyone just remember this is his first boat building adventure :!:

Boat looks great, nice tape job. looks you putting in pop-up cleats?

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:51 am
by dborecky
Joel,

I'm using the ones you mentioned. The flip up stainless cleats. You just drill two holes to mount them.

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:40 pm
by TomW
Very nice Derrick, won't be long till launch. Know you have limited time to work on her but you sure make up for it when you do.

Tom

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:32 pm
by dborecky
I'm done with the boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :!: :!: :!:

All I need to do is hang the motor. I'm going to have a small bracket made to clamp on to the transom so I can raise the motor to the best performing height....

Here are the final shots of the boat prior to hanging the motor...

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So there you have it. My first boat done!!!!

Now to try and figure out how to register it....... :doh:

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:51 pm
by topwater
Very very nice , love the drink holders.
which boat is next :?:

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:10 pm
by bernd1
How long did you build for that ugly boat :P - it s a joke :lol:

Very, very nice boat with an perfect paint job.

I would be happy if mine once a day has 50% of this paint job :roll:

Enjoy the boating - Date for launch ?

If I think about the 25HP on Pat's FS14......it will move fast, very fast with a 2 stroke engine....about 104 pounds weight I guess.

Be careful in turns first time with her :P

Enjoy it !


Bye
Bernd




By the way.....FS17 or OD18 the next one :?:

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:35 pm
by Gramps
Great work! I love the cup holders 8)

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's real pretty Derrick 8) Very nice job :D

Where did you get those rod and drink holders? I've never seen any like that 8)

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:48 pm
by steve292
Nice....I like the rod holders,nice paint job too. :D 8)

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:23 pm
by ks8
Yes, nice overall. :D

Slick cup holders. Got close to the same sort, but plastic. I like the shiney ones better. Certainly stronger than the ones I've got too. 8)

Nice masking on the KG too!

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:37 pm
by flatpicker
Man, that boat looks awesome. Love the hull paint color.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:46 pm
by cape man
Very, very, nice. She will definitely turn some heads at the ramp.

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:59 pm
by TomW
Great boat Derrick. Love the color and the SS. Those rod holders will come in handy.

Tom

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:32 am
by stickystuff
Derrick, Registration is easy. Just take receipts and a couple of pictures to tag office. Register as home built boat. Takes about 15 minutes to do. I took all receipts and stapled to a sheet of paper and made copies. of them for the tag lady. Very simple process. Boat looks fantastic. :) . Check with small outboards.com. Great priceing on engines and not to far from where you live.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:18 am
by dborecky
CL,

I got the stainless rod holders and cup holders here.

http://www.tempress.com/catalog/advance ... =stainless

Ken,

Thanks for the help on registration. Now to find all those receipts in the garage.... :doh: I already have a 25hp 2 stroke tiller ready to mount.

Thanks for the compliments everybody. It was an adventure to build and it is nice to have the first build under my belt... :D

I'll post the official launching here.... I'll even bring a hand held GPS for details.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:32 am
by donk
Derrick, what a great looking boat. As several have already said, the paint looks damn good. I also like the rod holders and cup holders.

What make hatches did you use? I like how they turned out tool

Again, congrats. You should be proud.

don

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:41 am
by dborecky
donk,

I used Armstrong hatches for the front and middle seat.

http://www.armstrongnautical.com/

They didn't make a large enough one for the back so I used Bomar for the back and got a big one.

Here is the site I got the Bomar at.

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/H ... tches.html

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:12 am
by gk108
Derrick, that looks great. :D

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:40 am
by Aripeka Angler
stickystuff wrote:Derrick, Registration is easy. Just take receipts and a couple of pictures to tag office. Register as home built boat. Takes about 15 minutes to do. I took all receipts and stapled to a sheet of paper and made copies. of them for the tag lady. Very simple process.
Derrick the process that Ken used didn't work for me. I think the tag office makes up the rules on the fly here in Pasco County.

I had to call the FWC and they sent an officer out to inspect the boat and reciepts prior to going to the tag office. It was still pretty easy. The tag office here refused to title the boat without the FWC inspection.

It took about 3 days to get the officer out to do the inspection. He said that they are doing it this way now to prevent stolen boats from being retitled as home made boats. Give the tag office a call. It may be the same in Pinellas County as here. :doh:

Your boat is looking nice :) I would like to come by and check it out sometime....

Richard
PS GO RAYS :D

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:15 am
by dborecky
Rich,

Thanks for the info. I'll go by the tag office and talk to them about it. My neighbors son is an FWC officer.

You are welcome to come by anytime. Give me a call.

Derrick

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:09 pm
by Daniel Huckleberry
Derrick,

She looks really great! I know you are proud. I really like the beer, err....drink holders. I have been looking at them as most of my hardware came from tempress, as well.

I can't wait to come down to see it in person. We are really going to try to make that work this fall. I am just waiting to hear about a new contract right now then we can plan some trips based on where I am working.

I love the boat. You know you are making me want one!

Huck

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:23 pm
by dborecky
Huck,

I look forward to seeing you guys again of course. We would have a great time!!!! 8)

I'll call you soon....

Derrick

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:14 pm
by stickystuff
Anything under 16 ft. does not require FWC Inspection. I was told this by tag office.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:41 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Ken you are correct. I am linking the data required to title a home made boat in Florida. The key word in the form is the tag office may require a visual inspection of a boat less than 16 feet. Sometimes I have almost got into fights with the local tag office during the registration of trucks or cars.
In any case, the state requires any boat that has a motor to be titled.

Derrick here is the form. You may be OK if you don't get a anal registration agent. :doh: Good luck.....


http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87002.pdf

Richard

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:55 am
by dborecky
I mounted the motor on the back of the boat!!! I cranked too hard on the bolts and seperated/cracked the primer and paint on the aluminum bracket... :oops: I need to sand it down and tape it off and re-prime and paint.... :?

I did say what the heck and put her in the water to see how she would run. I adjusted the tilt on the engine so that it is parallel with the rear bottom of the boat. The performance of the boat is great. I did not bring a GPS but I will next time. With just me in the boat it does barely porpoise at top speed but just barely. With my wife and 2 y/o on the bench seat it does not do it at all. The top speed is good but I could use a little more. 8) I did not push the engine other then very short runs at top speed due to keeping the engine at 3/4 throttle for this part of the 10 hr break in period. I still need to use 25/1 oil mix as well. This may have an effect on this as well. I really don't know. :doh: I ran over to a friends boat an let him take a ride. I only had my cell phone but took some shots of him in the boat. He was not on a plane in these shot. I wish I could have taken them on a plan. Next time. The boat handles great as well even in turns. I may try different props to get it to run at it's ultimate ability.

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
She looks pretty on the water Derrick! As the engine breaks in all those moving parts loosen up a little and your top end will increase. Maybe as much as 10%.

My cell phone tells me I missed a call from you on Friday :doh: Hope it wasn't important. Call me back.

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:54 pm
by jacquesmm
The boat looks good, congratulations.

When alone in the boat, you must (MUST) sit in the middle with a tiller extension. That will eliminate porpoising, give a better hole shot and better top speed.

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:01 pm
by donk
Derrick, she sure is looking nice. I'll bet you're glad that this one is almost behind you so that you can start the next one.

I'm still plugging away. The outside is almost done and the inside is really starting to take shape. I've got to figure out how and where to run my batter, lights and fuel lines.

Again, congrats, don

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:06 pm
by dborecky
Don,

If I had put electric and fuel lines in, I would have run them under the sole on either side of the stringers in different tubes.

The boat sits great as is but I don't have a battery...

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:13 pm
by donk
derrick, I plan on doing jus that. I'm going to put in a half sole, on eithor side of the stringers. Probably put the battery in the center seat and the fuel tank up front.

The problem is that the sole runs into the hull before it reaches the front frame. Oh well, with enough pondering I'll figure it out.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:27 am
by dborecky
I was thinking of a name and came up with the reason for the build. My three kids.... sooo how about "My Three Fry" Here is a sample of what I came up with .

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So what do you all think? :doh: I'm not set on the lettering or the fish but these are the only fish I could at this point.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:56 am
by cape man
Love the name, and the fish are cool to me. Better, bolder font is all I would change.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:02 am
by TomW
Love the fish and name Derrick, its perfect. Font is so, so I could live with it but there are better one's out there.

Tom

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, needs a different font. The flying fish are cool. I think the name may look better under the fry, but what do I know :doh:


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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:16 pm
by Dog Fish
I think you got it there Cracker Larry that looks good, I think you are in charge of names and layout now. 8O

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:12 pm
by donk
Agree with Dog Fish. Looks better cleaned up.

don

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:03 pm
by TomW
That looks much better. Good job Larry!

Tom

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's easy, no particular talent on my part :? With this website you can design your own in a few minutes. Pretty cool 8) Prices seem reasonable too.

http://www.boatletteringtoyou.com/lettering/

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:57 pm
by tobolamr
And here I was planning to spend $250 and have the decals done by a local pro for me...

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:26 pm
by Dog Fish
Larry thanks for that site, it's very cool. I was coming up with all kinds of names, colors and lay outs. It was fun. 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:26 pm
by dborecky
I worked on the big boat today due to the port engine not wanting to turn over. I found the large positive cable cracked in half in the harness.... Smelled of ozone and burnt rubber.... 8O Anyway, I now have to get a whole new assembly or rig the one I have... Another day.

I dropped the FS14 in and took a GPS this time. I had about 4 gallons of gas myself at about 190 lbs and a friend who is 240 lbs. Total of 430 lbs of people.
The boat does 28mph with the present stock prop. I may need to change the prop out but I bet with the right prop it will do a little over 30mph with that much weight in it. Not bad and she runs really nice. 8)

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:46 pm
by chicagoross
28 mph in a 14' skiff with two big guys sounds like it's running pretty sweet to me. Don't think I'd be worrying much about another expensive prop... :D

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:54 pm
by dborecky
After using the boat, I realized that a rub rail is a must. I saw Joel's at the builders meet and decided to try and put one of those on in black. I drilled then overdrilled and now I've filled....... Here is what I got so far.

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I also got a tiller extension to try out and a tiny tach to see what rpm's I'm running with the current prop.... 8)

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Very neat work Derrick :D You'll be glad you installed the rubrail.

You're garage is still a mess though :P And I think you need another fishing rod :lol:

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Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:36 am
by dborecky
CL,

I should have the rub rail on by the end of this weekend.

I do need to organize the garage before I start the next build. Was that an offer to come over and help? :idea: :idea: :doh:

A man can never have too many rods. :lol: As you can see, they are well organized and up off the ground. :wink: 8)

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:31 am
by tech_support
that looks great, I did mine the same way :) - "drill and fill"

That rubrail lays out straight and it comes pre-drilled. It was so easy compared to the "kits" I have used in the past. Never again. I liked that material enough I found the manufacturer and ordered a pallet of the rubrail and insert (in black and white) :!:

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:33 am
by tech_support
shine wrote:that looks great, I did mine the same way - "drill and fill"

That rubrail lays out straight and it comes pre-drilled. It was so easy compared to the "kits" I have used in the past. Never again. I liked that material enough I found the manufacturer and ordered a pallet of the rubrail and insert (in black and white) :!:
I like the snoopy rods between the standup 30's :)

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:15 am
by dborecky
Joel,

That is the best rod rack I have ever seen. You do have to alternate small and big rods so they fit... The snoopy rods catch the biggest fish 8)

By the way, I picked up another spear gun this week.. I think you would like it. :wink: I'm going to start to increase my spear fishing. I'm thinking of close in with the FS14 and free dive.

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:45 pm
by TomW
shine wrote:
shine wrote:that looks great, I did mine the same way - "drill and fill"

That rubrail lays out straight and it comes pre-drilled. It was so easy compared to the "kits" I have used in the past. Never again. I liked that material enough I found the manufacturer and ordered a pallet of the rubrail and insert (in black and white) :!:
:)
Does that mean your going to be selling the rubrail in the store! :D

Tom

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:00 am
by tech_support
yes, we have an order for a pallet

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:21 am
by Old E.
shine wrote:yes, we have an order for a pallet
Who makes that rubrail?

You like it better than the "flexible" ones you stretch as you put on? I have put those on before (TACO brand) , but cant remember if they are pre-drilled? I know that they are a pain to pull off and line your holes back up!

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:24 am
by tech_support
yes, its pre-drilled every 6", and because its rigid you can very easily line the rail back up so the holes match the "drilled and filled" epoxy plugs

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:26 am
by Old E.
shine wrote:yes, its pre-drilled every 6", and because its rigid you can very easily line the rail back up so the holes match the "drilled and filled" epoxy plugs

10-4. That helps. how do you cut and make the cut look nice?

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:10 am
by dborecky
E,

Joel used a heavy duty shop razor. I tried a razor but then found that those Japanese backward cutting flush hand saws from home depot worked great. I just used 200+ grit sand paper to do the fine work in the end. I'll post pics when I'm done. The only problem is there are no end caps available from the front or rear. You have to angle the cut like you would for moulding on the floor or ceiling. I'm not great at that and filled the gap with black 5200 which I will either sand or cut with a razor to shape. :doh: I will see how it turns out and post the pics. From the side so far it looks great.

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:10 pm
by Old E.
Hmmmm.... Take pictures. :D

That black 5200 is nasty to work with!

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:52 am
by tech_support
I used a standard razor that fits a utility knife (the sort for cutting drywall). "Irwin" is the brand name and they are the best, the are sharp and hold and edge for along time. We go through A LOT of box cutters in the warehouse and the Irwin blades are great. They cut through the rub rail with a just firm hand pressure

BTW, we have this rubrail now in stock, here is the link (its in the hardware section)...

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... P_1235_blk

here are the dimensions

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Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:25 am
by Old E.
Is the price right on that??? Or is it sold by the foot?

Edit: nevermind... I just saw the "per foot" part. :oops:

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:00 pm
by dborecky
Old E,

I would have taken a pic already but the wife is out of town with my camera.. :roll: The 5200 can be a mess but I found that if I wear latex gloves and use a rag with mineral spirits, I can do a decent job of working with it. The mineral spirits cleans up any mess instantly. The mineral spirits do break down the latex though... I would prefer a cap in the front and nice neat end caps for the rear but I think it will turn out decent just not show boat decent. I will take pic but you will have to wait for the wife to get back.. :?

If you are really in tampa, and are ever near/in Tarpon Springs, you are welcome to come by and look in person.

Derrick

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:10 pm
by Old E.
I don't get over that way very often, but I may end up taking you up on that. Too bad they don't make end caps... I'm actually surprised to hear that. Thanks for the info!

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:33 pm
by Old E.
Anyway, I wonder if this might work for you:
http://tacomarine.com/item--1-3-8-Rub-R ... -1870.html

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:02 pm
by dborecky
Old E,

That's funny you sent that link. The place I got the rail from sent me those for a few bucks. They would work but I didn't like the look of them in person. It looks better just cut flush and filled with plack 5200. They are very thin black plastic and bulky.

I'll get the picks up when the camera is back. Again, if you are over in my area, let me know. We could even put the boat in the water for a little ride. 8)

Derrick

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:05 pm
by Old E.
10-4. Thanks!

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:23 pm
by dborecky
Old E,

Here are some pics of the rub rail installed. I could take some out in the sun for a better view if you want. Just let me know.

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I also had to return the trailer I borrowed so this is the new one that fits like a glove... 8)

Derrick

Re: FS14 build saga continues......

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:04 pm
by Old E.
Looks great, and so does the boat! The bow and ends look good, from the pix.

Now, get out there and put those fishing poles to good use. :P

My buddy was jumping tarpon down at Egmont today.