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PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Fellow Boat Builders,

I am starting my PH 18 and would love your input regarding some minor design changes. :doh:

I would like to modify the traditional bench seat in the back to fold up and down similar to what is seen on a Cayman (Ranger Boats). This reduces the distance from where a person sits and where their feet rest on the floor, making for an uncomfortable position. Can I drop the cockpit about 3 inches to make up for some of the loss? The modification looks to be rather easy and require minimal adjustments in the stringers and two bulkheads. I can reinforce the stringers toward the front where it looks like taking out 3 inches might make them a little thin.

I am also interested in moving the bulkhead that is just behind the console toward the front of the boat a little, maybe 8 or 10 inches, to increase the size of the deck space in front of the poling platform.

I would like to have the front deck be shaped in more of a rainbow fashion, similar to a Mitzi skiff. This will allow more room for fly line.

I hope to be acquiring some BS 1088 Okoume from an acquaintance at a greatly reduced price. The sizes I will receive will require me to build the stringers, bulkheads, and deck with ½ inch Okoume instead of the required 3/8 inch. I see this as an advantage considering the design changes I am planning to make.

Any thoughts from fellow builders or the designer will be most helpful.

Sincerely,

Casey :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:43 am
by JimW
flyfish2743 wrote: Can I drop the cockpit about 3 inches to make up for some of the loss? The modification looks to be rather easy and require minimal adjustments in the stringers and two bulkheads. I can reinforce the stringers toward the front where it looks like taking out 3 inches might make them a little thin.

I am also interested in moving the bulkhead that is just behind the console toward the front of the boat a little, maybe 8 or 10 inches, to increase the size of the deck space in front of the poling platform.
Welcome aboard Casey, I'm just a builder but have some feelings on this: Dropping the whole cockpit 3 inches will take away the self bailing feature. This is dangerous if it's raining hard and the boat is at a dock. The boat can sink! Also dangerous to take a wave into the cockpit. I know one PH18 that swamped the cockpit drifting an inlet at night for snook. If his cockpit was 3 inches lower the boat may have sunk. Try to think of another solution to your folding seat desires. It's a huge change for the desire of a seat feature.

You can ALWAYS add another bulkhead rather than moving one. In the aft area it's not always a good idea to move bulkheads. That aft planing area needs to be well built and to the design specs.

I was born in Ft. Worth.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:35 am
by Doug
It would not be self bailing anymore which I find a huge advantage. Jim Pelligrino dropped the sole in a much smaller area for a bass boat version but I don't think you could drop the entire cockpit area w/o affecting the stringers in the front too much. I thought about the same thing but decided against it. Too much work and not particulary functional when fishing.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:42 am
by tech_support
welcome.

I would keep the sole height for the reasons mentioned above.

As for using the 1/2" Okoume; its fine for all those parts you mention (flat parts), it will not add much weight and since your using Okoume your going to be on the lighter side anyway.

One thing to remember is that you will need to account for that added thickness when spacing your molds/frames on the jig. If you do not take note of what face you are measuring from one mold to the next, you jig could end up a couple inches too long for the side and bottom panels (1/4" difference for each mold adds up)

Post some pictures when you get going :)

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Doug, you stated, "It would not be self bailing anymore which I find a huge advantage." Why the advantage?

Shine, do you think it can be dropped any distance?

Casey

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:25 pm
by Doug
It depends on where you fish.

Freshwater lakes and fish its nice to have self bailing, saltwater fishing in the bays and gulf its a must have IMHO. I have a large (2 1/2") drain in each rear corner so if you take water over the side, which you will in a Phantom, it drains very fast w/o batteries. Even a big Rule bilge pump is going take many times longer to dump the water.

Also the boat gets full of mud when I wade or gets fish slime/blood so wash down with a bucket is easy and goes back in the water instead of the bilge where you have to clean it out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:31 pm
by tech_support
All your changes are possible ........

I am also interested in moving the bulkhead that is just behind the console toward the front of the boat a little, maybe 8 or 10 inches, to increase the size of the deck space in front of the poling platform.
You make another one 8 to 10 inches forward, but the other one will still need to be there below the sole (its a floor frame at that point). Its a matter a spacing between supports. The portion above the sole can be open - just keep 3" of the frame along the sides.
I would like to have the front deck be shaped in more of a rainbow fashion, similar to a Mitzi skiff. This will allow more room for fly line.
The deck shape is defined by where it meets the side panles. The only way to get the rounded deck it to have the casting deck overhang the sides, you will just need to make your casting deck thicker to support the weight cantilevered over the outside of the sides

As for the self bailing cockpit: its a good idea a myriad of reasons which I cant really go into right now. its pretty basic - you want water that makes its way into your boat to also make its ways out. there are A LOT of potential problems when water that comes in does not go out
:)

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
A LOT of potential problems when water that comes in does not go out
To say the least :help:

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You guys make a heck of a lot of sense. I will probably keep the floor right where it is. :wink:

And Doug, I misinterpreted your first post. It sounded like you found it an advantage not to self bail. That was why I asked.

I would love your thoughts on the hatches. I do not want any hatches in the front of the boat at all. I like the idea of accessing that area through the bulkhead and am not fond of fishing while standing on a wobbly hatch. However, it looks like a couple of hatches in the back will be needed for various things. I would like the back bench seat itself to be a hatch door. Do you guys like having a lot of hatches. They look like they will increase weight and build time. :?:

What are your thoughts on placing the batteries up in the front of the boat close to the gas tank? :?:

Thanks for all the advice, and do you guys know of any PH builders here in the Dallas metro?

Casey

P.S. Shine, thanks for the heads up on the wood dimension. I was definitely going to keep and eye out for that.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:44 pm
by tech_support
you are correct that hatches add time, unless you buy ready made ones

You will need at the very least one hatch towards the bow. That forward casting deck is very long and there is no way you would be able to reach all the way up there.

On the PH16 I built, I had 9 hatches plus a motor well hatch 8O That was way a lot. On the Aquasport we made 6 custom hatches and used 4 more pre-made

On the FS17 Im building now I will keep hatches to a minimum, and I may use pre-made hatches from bomar

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Shine,

I was planning on eliminating not only any hatches toward the front, but also placing the lights under the deck, mounted to the hull, and not installing a deck cleat, not even a pop up one. I feel very strongly about not having anything that can possibly snag my flyline.

I can see it now. There is a 150-pound tarpon 95 feet off the bow and my fly line gets caught in the little groove between the hinge and the deck. Oh man, there goes the fish of a lifetime! :x

Do you think I can cut a small square just large enough in the front bulkhead to allow access to possibly install the trolling motor batteries or the engine battery? I could easily shimmy on my belly under the deck to access this area. I have little need for storage. One of the nice things about fly-fishing is it is not very gear intensive, so the loss of the space does not bother me. All I need is four rods and a couple of gear bags and I’m set.

Casey

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:10 am
by TomW
Casey, just remember you will have to keep your gas tank and your batteries seperated by a bulkhead. Also the power lines and gas lines can't run in the same space. Just something else to think about as you plan her out. Also by the time you extend the deck you will probably have plenty of room for a nice wide hatch in the bulkhead.

Tom

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Do you think there is a way to accomplish placing the tank and batteries in a safe manner, while still having no hatch on top, in the front of the boat and would this help in weight distribution? Another PH owner suggested this to me last year while brainstorming on improvements he would make were he to build another one.

Casey

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:49 am
by tech_support
flyfish2743 wrote: is a way to accomplish placing the tank and batteries in a safe manner, while still having no hatch on top, in the front of the boat and would this help in weight distribution?
How will you get the batteries out? Not through that little hole in the frame. You really need at least one hatch

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:54 am
by TomW
I really don't know. How far back are you coming with the casting deck. How hich off the sole is it. What size gas tank will you have. One or two dee cycle batteries.

I tend to think that you will need a hatch. There are many available that have hidden hinges and inset latches. See Bomar and Tempress. Main reason it that moving 80lb deep ciycles sideways is very difficult. Connecting them properly in a tight space even more so. You also have to be able to fasten them down properly as you would not want them bouncing around up there. Just putting them in a battery box is not an option, they will move around in the box.

Maybe put the hatch all the way forward wil the hinges aft and the latch forward would be the answer. Don't know. Then custome gas tank behing that.

Tom

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:55 am
by Muddler
Fly,


Image

This is the layout of the foredeck on my PH18. I fly fish 90% of the time from this deck and have not had a snagged line yet. I installed Bomar hatches, and the cleats are recessed. I fish a lot in Louisiana and have had some large Reds with flyline all over the place and never a hang up. The Bomar hatches have pretty close tolerances on the hinges and lids. All of the edges are well rounded on the hatches and the cleats. The lids are pretty stout and support my fat arse.

I had many of the same questions and fears you have mentioned. The only real problems I have had were with tangles in the line which I had stripped in, that goes ripping off the deck when I get a hookup.

The PH18 is a great platform for shallow water fishing. Very, very stable. You and your partner can stand on the gunnel and have no fear of tipping the boat. It is a rough ride in rough water, but that keeps the blood flowing.

Good luck with your build.

Muddler

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:38 am
by Cracker Larry
I've got a combination of Tempress and Sure-Seal hatches. Both are flush, no protrusions, easy to stand on, strong, and they are lighter than the plywood they replace.

Image

Image

12 hatches on this boat, no wasted space anywhere 8)

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:12 pm
by TomW
Fly, Muddlers PH18 is an outstanding example of the PH18's. Have seen and been on it at the Annual Meeting in Florda last spring. You can trust what he tells you. I'm sure Muddler would be glad to discuss the boat or fly fishing if you use his e-mail button to contact him.

I didn't say before but I plan 3 large hatches in a 42" deck in my build. Hinges will be hiidden and latches inset.

Tom

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Muddler and Cracker Larry,

You guys have constructed some great looking boats! Larry, the grip on your boat, is that an after market product that is adhered to your fiberglass or is that built into the finish?

Casey

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
Casey, it's called Kiwi Grip. They sell it right here

http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=62

Great stuff!!

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That stuff looks great. What is the coverage of one gallon? Any downside? Do you think it would be excessive to use it on all deck surfaces and the cockpit floor?

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
I did all that with just a little over a half gallon. I think a gallon is rated at 80 sq. ft. but it seems to go further than that.

The only downside of using it everywhere is that it would make the boat harder to clean. That's why I've left smooth channels around the edges.

Also the stuff dries fast and you should work with small areas. The directions say 1 sq. meter max, but you can work a larger area than that.

I wrote up the application in my build thread, start here...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... ddd04a6ddc

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
What do you guys think of the way this particular boat enters the water at the V? Do you think this would reduce hull slap or make it easier to pole?

(It's the 16 footer in the lower left corner of the page)

http://www.ankonaboats.com/

Ideas? Thoughts? Advantages? Disadvantages? Can it be duplicated?

I hope you guys enjoy the new Avaitar! Tell me if its to much and I'll change it.

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:35 am
by Muddler
Just a little detracting for me.

Muddler

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
I changed it back. I thought it might be distracting, but hopefully you got a kick out of it for the day it was up. I had a dog that did that same kinda thing!

Muddler. I will post our last two emails, as you suggested, up on the forum. :) Thanks for all the advice.

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here was my email to Muddler,

Dear Muddler,

I appreciate your input on the forum. I am really learning a lot from everyone who has ventured before me. I looked at the picture of the hatches on the front of your deck, which look great by the way, but am still undecided. How far does the top of the hatch come up above the deck? Is that about 1/2 inch?

Take a look at this picture.

http://mitziskiffs.com/images/mitzi17frnt200.jpg

I just love the almost totally unobstructed deck that this boat has. The only thing I would change is to eliminate the pop up cleat and place the light under the deck. I also would like for the deck to sweep toward the center console as seen here,

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/floorp ... =saltwater

but with more of a U shape matching somewhat the front deck of the boat. This would give me more storage under the deck. I could just slide bags up under the deck to keep them out of the way and give me a larger casting area.

I am not trying to sound stubborn, but do you think there is any way possible to place the fuel tank and trolling batteries near the bow of the boat without any access point other than a hatch or a hole in bulkhead B? I have no qualms with putting the batteries in some type of enclosure up near the front or even in front of bulkhead A that is only accessible when the gas tank is pulled out. I was planning on installing a plastic removable tank of about 15 gallons or so. I understand that this would require a person to shimmy up on their belly and set the heavy batteries into place. This seems as if it would help distribute the weight in the boat a little more properly.

Thanks for all your input.

Sincerely,

Casey


Muddlers Reply…..

Casey,

The link to the picture of the hatches was too small to tell what the hatches looked like.

Yes, the Bomar hatches stick up about 3/8" to 1/2".

You could trip on the edge, but my hatches are not a threat of catching a flyline on the deck, neither are the cleats or front light. If you want totally flush hatches, check the gallery, search for "hatches". The search should turn up some of the custom jobs some of the builders have come up with. I will look and post the links in the forum.

I built the decks pretty much to spec. and find that I have more then enough room.

The ease of access is important, to batteries and fuel system components. I have already had to change out a battery while fishing. I have a 19 gallon tank under the front casting deck along with two batteries that power my trolling motor. The cranking battery is at the transom. It was easy to swap a trolling motor battery with the cranking battery when we were an hour from the dock and the cranking battery died.

What size motor are you going to install? A 70HP (recommended) will consume about 7 gallons per hour+- at cruising speed. I usually burn 1/2 to 3/4 tank when fishing all day, 15 gallons may be a little small if you are making a couple of long runs and doing some trolling looking for the fish.

In the end it’s your boat and mine suits the way I fish and where I fish. I have plenty of dry storage, easy access and uncluttered decks. I also have several built in options such as chair mounts in the fore deck and aft, and rod holders in the gunnels (2-each side). My trolling motor is currently mounted at the transom, which I plane to change for a bow mount early next year.

Best of luck,

Muddler

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Muddler,

My motor is a 90 HP Merc Mariner.

I'll take your advice and bump the fuel tank up in size a bit more. The plans show one 12-gallon tank and have two side by side as a suggestion. What do you think of the two 12 gallon tanks side by side?

Casey

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:05 pm
by Doug
I built flush hatches. A lot of work but look good and no way to catch a fly line.

Image

Here is my website on building them

http://dskogman.tripod.com/Hatch.htm

I used foam on my new skiff and it makes lighter hatches.

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Doug,

I remember looking at your web page about a year ago and it was just a few hours ago I was searching on google for it again. Perfect timing! Thanks for the link.

What kind of foam are you using and is it plenty strong to stand on? How much weight do you think it will shave off? How necessary do you think back support is on the back bench seat?

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:24 am
by Muddler
Casey,

Check this link, it shows the construction of a hatch system with drains which might better suit your desires:

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=210

Muddler

PS. The 24 gallons should give you some to spare, Like I said, its all about where and how you fish.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I like how flush these hatches are. Very nice!

Here is the gallery for my boat stand. I designed it to be mobile and have only built the rolling base. The top will be next. It will hold the hull in an inverted position as well as upright and will be micro adjustable in at least 6 locations to create a level surface.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=904

The boat will be at just the right height for me to work in a standing position, so as not to kill my back.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Seats on flats boats, do you guys use them? I'm talking the type you see on a bass boat that swivel and mount into the metal bracket on the deck.

99% of my fishing is fly-fishing, and I find myself standing up a lot. However I wanted to know what the other Phantom builders thought. For those of you that have the mounts installed in the boats, how often do you find yourself breaking out the seats and using them, specifically the fly-fishermen?

An option I was thinking about using was portable chairs with non-abrasive feet. I could just set them up when needed. They have the added advantage of resting anywhere on the deck itself, and not being tied to just one location.

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:55 am
by Muddler
Fly,

I mainly fly fish also; however, there are times when we anchor out and fish the mouth of a cut or drift fish. If you anticipate rod fishing install the mount and if all you do is fly fish, being able to sit in a soft chair and lean back feels soooooo gooood.

Muddler

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:44 am
by Doug
Depends on how old you are. I've been known to carry a fold up camp stool but I'd never put bass boat style seats in a fly fishing boat. :wink:

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:07 am
by Muddler
Old Enough!

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I will be receiving 11 pieces of Okoume 1088 plywood this week for my PH 18! The purchase was only $400 for the wood and $200 for shipping. These pieces were left over from another boat builder’s project. He originally was going to build a bigger boat but scaled down quite a bit.

:D

I'll order the remainder of the wood probably sometime in the spring.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:24 am
by OysterBreath
Muddler, you must have great line management skills. I look at those hatches and cringe. I know I will be building the FS18 when I get around to it. It will be my first build. I'm a little worried about hatches though. I'd like to have a few but I think it may be more than what I'm ready to handle so I've been considering having none. I still have mixed feelings about it but I will take a look at those production hatches. I think Doug's hatches are top notch! I tried to take a closer look at his hatches page but Tripod keeps acting up.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:49 am
by Chalk
Here is what I made for my boat - learned alot from the initial screw ups - but it is worth the pain and agony of sanding to me..still need to build the hatches

Image

Image

Image

Image

I built a mold and sprayed it with PVA.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:39 am
by OysterBreath
Hey, what is PVA?

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:51 pm
by Chalk
OysterBreath wrote:Hey, what is PVA?
Polyvinyl acetate - You can buy from Bateau

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
All of these are fine examples of hatches. If I can even come close to what has been displayed I will be just fine. :)

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:06 pm
by OysterBreath
flyfish2743 wrote:What do you guys think of the way this particular boat enters the water at the V? Do you think this would reduce hull slap or make it easier to pole?

(It's the 16 footer in the lower left corner of the page)

http://www.ankonaboats.com/

Ideas? Thoughts? Advantages? Disadvantages? Can it be duplicated?

I hope you guys enjoy the new Avaitar! Tell me if its to much and I'll change it.
I've been hearing good things about it.
Check this out:
http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 1221482057

I think a s&g boat about the size of the copperhead with a straight transome and rounded chine built like the FS18 would be a home wrecker! =P~

Spray Rails

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am not real fond of the spray rails that are installed on the Phantoms. What do you guys think of modifying the bottom of the boat a little. I want to start at bulkhead B and head toward the bow of the boat. Do you think this would accomplish the same effect without the protrusion of the spray rails? Who knows, it might even enhance the look a little bit.

I would like the input from any Phantom builders and possibly Shine and jacquesm. Here is a schematic of my idea. The arrow points to the adjustment and it is exaggerated on the drawing. I’m thinking maybe a slight adjustment that at its deepest point into the hull goes maybe 2 inches. I was thinking the addition of a couple of small stringers could stiffen up the hull in this area as well. I drew the new stringer in red.

Thanks,

Fly Fish

Image

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:50 pm
by Doug
No need to modify the bottom to do this. Just add a triangular piece of wood at the chine as I did:
http://dskogman.tripod.com/Spray_Rails.htm
Helps some but I added spray rails later anyway. They help some also but if you are running into the wind with a good chop you still get wet.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:19 pm
by TomW
Another way to do it is like the OB15 and 18. You extend the side panel down a couple of inches and fill in with an epoxy milled fiber, cabosil mix to form the reverse chine. This is much easier than what you propose, you really don't need the extra stringer. Also instead of going flat go slightly angled.

Tom

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom and Doug,

Between both of your suggestions, which one do you believe will reduce the spray the most?

Which one would look the coolest? :P

Tom… I assume you mean slightly angled inward and upward toward the center of the boat.

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have cut out the stringers and bulkheads. Here is an article I wrote after completing the step.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the size of the gunwale? The plans appear to have the width at 12 inches. I was thinking about bumping this up to maybe 14.

Any thoughts?

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:42 am
by TomW
FF yes inward and upward. Take a gander at the OB15 Gallery on the Main page I beleive there is a shot of her head on with the sprayrail ending at the bow. Doug's looks about the same.

Either way will work about as well. My way you fill in the gap with epoxy, microfibers and silica to form the shape, his you form the shape with wood. Depends which your more comfortable doing.

Tom

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Currently I am researching fuel tanks and am curious to know what other PH builders thoughts are.

I am looking at putting two fuel tanks under the forward deck. What kind of tolerance is there between the cockpit sole and the underside of the deck?

One type of tank I am looking at using is 8 1/4" tall. However it says to add another 4" in height for the filler. It is a Moeller tank and sells for only $89. I believe they no longer make this model. Here is a picture of the tank. It is part number FT1306.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... fullsize=1

Another option I am looking at is also a Moeller. Here are the dimensions: 32.00 L x 10.19 W x 10.19 H. Product # 032513. I set up my stringers and bulkheads and it appears that both tanks will fit between the bulkheads but I am not so sure on the vertical room because I am unfamiliar with the parts that attach to the top of the tank.

Please let me know what you guys think.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... =903&pos=2

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:45 am
by Cracker Larry
Notice the tanks in the first picture have the fill and vent pipes oriented horizontal. It will not require much additional space to make the connection, just an inch or 2, as the hoses approach the tank from the side. This is the best bet.

The second tank has the fill and vent pipes vertical. This will require aa least an additional 6-8 inches above the tank to make the hose connections. That fill hose is very stiff and does not bend easily or tightly.

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

Thanks for the reply. I have called the seller and asked them to get me the exact height of the tank (the one with the horizontal fill). Hopefully it will be less than 12 inches tall.

Here is the link to my boat building blog

http://caseysboat.blogspot.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

The height of the tank, just above the horizontal fill line, is 10 3/4 inches. It looks like it will work fine. What are your thoughts? The seller also reduced the price down to $79 a tank.

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. "Tanks" for all your help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Realize that I'm not a PH builder, I'm a GF and OD builder, so I'm not familiar with what you have to work with space wise. I just wanted to point out that a vertical fill tube will require 6-8 more inches for the hoses than a horizontal setup. Me, I bought a big 40 gallon tank with horizontal fill and vent pipes, then built the deck over it to fit the tank. You don't have to make the deck height exactly as the plans say. Put a small hatch over the fittings to access the clamps. I'd show a picture but the photo gallery is still down.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
After a little further review of the plans it appears that there is exactly 12 inches from the sole of the cockpit and the underside of the deck. I should be good with two of these tanks and plan to make the purchase tomorrow. Thanks for the insight.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does anybody know who made this boat with the modified chine? It's a PH-15. How difficult of a modification would this be? I have a lot of time and enjoy tinkering around. I have no intention of changing anything behind the second bulkhead so as not to mess up how the boat performs on the water.

Here is a picture of the boat.

http://www.bateau.com/boats/PH15/slides ... 20006.html

This is a good looking boat in the next photo. However, I like the construction of the stringers and the bulkheads much better on Jacques' design. How hard do you think it would be to modify the chine at the very front of the boat to look a little more like this boat? Is that a spray rail just above the chine near the stern of the boat? This guy's paint job is beautiful! Once you click on the link, scroll down a little to see the side profile.

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/hankinson ... pho-2.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think? that's one of Ken Owens builds in the first picture. He goes by Stickystuff on here.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:48 pm
by TomW
Larry I'm pretty sure your right that that is one of Ken's builds. It may even be his foam build that he did for his freind.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom and Larry,

You are correct. I sent a message to Ken and it was his boat. He replied with a friendly and informative message. Thank you both for your help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:28 am
by tarhull87
flyfish,

Do you have any other information on the build of that Hankinson Flats Flyer?

I found one build and it appears that build is based on framing and battens and plank on frame, a bit different from stitch and glue.

I'm in the midst of deciding between the PH18 and that too now that I saw your post, what are you thinking? I like the bow lines of the flats flyer a bit, but I'm not too sure about the construction compared to the phantom.

-Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mike

Unfortunately I have no other info regarding the Flats Flyer. However, after cutting out the bulkheads and the stringers and looking over the plans very closely, I highly recommend the Phantom over the Flats Flyer. It looks much easier to build and the design is so simple and appears to be very strong.

I agree on the lines of the bow of the flats flyer. I think that this builder’s paint job helps the look as well and it has a nice photograph. I bet a Phantom with the same paint scheme and a good pic would probably look just as nice. I do like the lines of the bow so much that I am currently brainstorming with another Phantom builder about slightly modifying the hull near the bow to look a little sleeker.

I purchased some balsa wood at the hobby shop to build a second model of the Phantom with some slight modifications to the deck and the bow.

Here is my blog. It has some nice photos of the first model as well as the recent cuts of the bulkheads and stringers. caseysboat.blogspot.com (you will have to copy and past the url.)

I also just added a pic of the new fuel tanks I purchased.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:26 am
by tarhull87
Thanks for the thoughts in such a timely manner.

I came across another build of the flats flyer, this one by a guy named Casey Jones.

Here is a photo of his boat, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/ ... flyer4.jpg
and
http://www.flatsflyer.4t.com/photo.html

The thing about this guy is he built the PH18 before he built the flats flyer,you can see it in the background of one of the pictures on that second link, and in the PH18 gallery on here, its the yellow boat with the tiller motor, and said he enjoyed the process of the FF more than the PH18 stitch and glue, so I'm not totally made up my mind either way.

What kind of things have you considered for modifying the bow on the PH, I'm interested in hearing more.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Maybe Jacques or Shine would chime in on the differences from a designer’s point of view. As a wood worker, the Flats Flyer does look appealing because of all the cool looking construction.

Modifications

I am considering lengthening the side panels to extend the boat’s length toward the bow by 9 to 12 inches and hopefully make the two top panels of the hull create a chine that is 6 inches or so under the tip of the bow.

Here is a photo of what I am of talking about. This chine comes down a little lower than what I see in my minds eye. The builder of this boat has been very helpful and informative.

http://www.bateau.com/boats/PH15/slides ... 20006.html

Look at my blog post, the one just before the post on the fuel tanks, and you will see some of the other modifications I am also considering. Your input, and anybody else’s, will be most helpful.

1. Spray Rail/Rub Rail modification.
2. Chine modification to reduce spray.
3. Deck modification to widen gunwales and make the front deck sweep more into the gunwales.

http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:25 pm
by BassMunn
Just a note to add to the questions about the Phantom vs the Flats Flyer.
When I first started looking at these plans, I was sold on the Flats Flyer at first, I prefered the look of the bow like you guys do and the pictures of that Black and White one looked so cool.
I did a lot of scratching around and eventually contacted Casey Jones because he was the only person that I could find that has built both.
Firstly that Black and White boat is the 19'9" version, when you buy the plans you get the measurements for the 17'6"; 18'6" and 19'9".
Casey said that the PH16 that he built (the yellow one, with tiller arm) was a fantastic boat, he said that the Flats Flyer although more rewarding and challenging to build for a woodworker was like a barge (his words not mine), he ran a 30hp on the PH16, he is running either a 115hp or 130hp on the Flats Flyer.

Also if you look through the BOM for the 2 boats you will see that the Flats Flyer uses way more Ply and Lumber, which obviously adds weight. Although I still prefer the look of the Flats Flyer I chose the PH16 based on my lack of experience with woodworking and the cost of materials.

Have a look at my PH16 build thread "BassMunn's PH16", once the picture gallery is up and running again, you can see how I did my spray rail and reverse chine (the reverse chine was a suggestion from Ken Owens and I'm very happy I did it).

The other 2 suggestion you want can be done with a bit of planning, I am building mine as a Bass Boat so have extended the front deck backwards into the cockpit and will be adding gunwale strips on top of the deck to more closely resemble a bass boat as opposed to a flats boat deck layout. I am only about to start fitting the deck panels so the gunwales are a ways off still.

I also picked up that the Phantoms bow was changed at some stage, all of the older built boats have very pointy side panels whereas my plans had a blunter point. Umm how do I explain this.
Look at this bow http://www.bateau.com/boats/PH16/slides ... man_1.html
as opposed to this bow http://bp2.blogger.com/_E7n-ZsZ1Ojo/R9w ... ig+030.JPG

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn,

I like the name! I assume the second pic with the boat on the trailer is the newer design? I believe I have the old plans. I wonder if the new plans had any changes to the stringers or bulkheads and if Jaques would email a pdf of the new plans so we could make the adjustments to the hull panels.

I worked up a schematic in Photoshop and Illustrator of what changes I want to make to the Phantom along with a scale push pole platform drawn in. Most of my fishing is with a fly rod... hence the gray circle. Let me know what you think.

http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/

Can you describe a reverse chine for me?

Thanks for all your input! :)

P.S. Since my boat will be a poling skiff, it is a nice to know that the Fltas Flyer is heavier and more "barge like." I want a boat as lite as possible so as not to blow out my back polling in 7 inches of water to that tailing red!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:12 am
by tarhull87
The reverse chine is a concept where as the bottom runs out toward the chine it flattens horizontally and then, at the chine, it hooks down slightly. This way there is a bit of chine that both helps with stability and turning, as well as spray factor.
Essentially a properly formed spray rail would for this same the same concept , but it may be a bit higher on the boat.

I did notice the BOM on the flats flyer, quite hefty with all that framing and whatnot considering the Phantom is almost all plywood, and the Phantom build looks a bit more straightforward, not to mention the plans are much cleaner and printed out.

I'd like to know which style of bow I'd get if I were to order PH18 plans now, I prefer the pointed bow to the blunt tip.

-Mike
soon to be PH18 builder I think.

P.s. This is a pretty good look for the boat here, http://www.bateau.com/boats/PH18/slides/PH18_chris.html
It's all about the paint job and how you decide to deck the boat, I'm partial to those teak cockpit soles.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:31 pm
by Doug
I don't think the plans have changed. I beleive the difference is one is a PH16 (mine) and the other is a PH18.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:19 pm
by BassMunn
No Doug the second photo is also a PH16 built by Desert Diver, my boats the same. I hadn't even noticed it until one of the other PH16 builders asked me if I had changed something on my build.

Here is a pic of my hull with first coat of primer, you can see the difference in the front section, this was built to the plans I got, no changes. I got my plans in Oct 2008, but I'm not sure which is the newer design. Maybe mine was an upgrade or maybe mine were a set lost on a shelf somewhere, I don't know. :doh: I'm pretty happy with it though :D

Flyfish you can see my reverse chines in this picture, It is basically just a spray rail extended all the way to the transom.
The spray rail idea I stole from Doug's boat :oops: :D , his spray rail looked the best that I had seen on these boats, I just added the reverse chine after a suggestion from Ken Owens (stickystuff).

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:46 pm
by BassMunn
Flyfish I just had a look at your blog and your drawings look nice. Not sure how you are going to extend the bow, although my bow side panels have the thicker point it still has the same bow curve as the other Phantoms. The bow is pretty blunt so lengthening the panels will probably cause it to flare out a bit more which on this boat would probably look pretty nice and decrease spray, but I'm not a boat designer so I would wait for Jacques on this one.
To increase your gunwales is a breeze - Only bulkhead C is affected and you just cut the centre part of bulkhead C out with the 13" dimension instead of the 12". And then obviously the wider gunwale deck panels.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:28 pm
by Doug
Well it sure looks different. Maybe Jacques dropped the chine some at the bow to make it easier to build. Quite a few early ones had droopy bows (mine included).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:30 pm
by tarhull87
BassMunn,

How did you create the spray rail/reverse chine? I have seen a piece of trim used and epoxied underneath the chine and then planed flush with the hullsides, is this the route you took?

As for the PH18 plans, I'd like Jacques or Shine to chime in and say whether the bow would appear to be blunt tipped or pointed?

flyfish, it sounds like we may have pretty similar builds and have similar goals in mind, a bit of flare up in the bow and a wider gunwhale which does seem pretty straightforward.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn,

That is a nice looking hull. I think I must have the other design because the bow of my model looks very different than your boat.

The reverse chine makes sense. This is what I had drawn on my blog but I did not know what to call it until you explained it in further detail. I am thinking I could manage the lengthening of the bow but it may require the most forward bulkhead to be widened just a tad (2 or 3 inches). I look forward to hearing from Jacques on this. I am quite a ways from making any cuts to the bottom and side panels and have a lot of time to plan these modifications.

Currently I am working on the platform of the poling tower. I hope to buy the epoxy kit from Bateau when I am ready to glass up the hull but needed something to experiment. To hold me over I ran down to West Marine and purchased a small amount of epoxy and filler, West System Brand. Is this stuff any good? :?:

flyfish2743

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:54 pm
by BassMunn
Doug wrote:Well it sure looks different. Maybe Jacques dropped the chine some at the bow to make it easier to build. Quite a few early ones had droopy bows (mine included).
He might have, I noticed the way you built yours up in the front. I do have a bit of a droop as well, but I think that was my fault by not supporting the front enough. I think it would have been worse had I used the other plans.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Define droop... are you refering to the deck drooping some toward the tip of the bow? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:16 pm
by BassMunn
tarhull87 wrote:BassMunn,

How did you create the spray rail/reverse chine? I have seen a piece of trim used and epoxied underneath the chine and then planed flush with the hullsides, is this the route you took?
Yes that's exactly how I did, here's some pics to give you an idea.
I used a concave piece for the bow area and then switched to a 1" x 2" plank ripped at an angle from point to point

The bow area
Image

Close up of the concave piece, you could also use an angled cut piece here instead like Doug did on his boat, I just found that this piece bent easier so used it.
Image

This is what I did for the reverse chine, I just had to blend the 2 pieces into each when i did the shaping and fairing.
Image
I Glassed these over once they were trimmed nicely.

This is how the spray rail came out
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tarhull87,

What kind of fishing do you do? I almost exclusively fly fish for both fresh and saltwater species.

I am trying to plan everything around flyfishing and have spent many hours upon a flats boat. However I want there to be a balance between the function and the aesthetics of the boat. One of the best flyfishing boats is ugggllly. The Mitzi Skiff. And some of your better looking flats boat are a real pain to fish on.

I plan to make bead on top of the deck that runs from the tip of the bow to about were the gunwales start, adjacent to the outer edge of the deck. This will aid in keeping the fly line on top of the deck as well as help the person casting on the front deck know when his or her foot is close to the edge of the boat (they will feel the bead under their foot).

Does anyone have any thoughts of how to make this bead?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn,

What do you think of extending the side panels down and filling in the void with wood and epoxy... another builder suggested this and said other Bateau boats are build this way as well.

This hull looks great. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cDwlGlLOaew/S ... onboat.jpg

flyfish

P.S. I will let Ken know we are talking about these items... his expertise will be most helpful.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:26 pm
by BassMunn
flyfish2743 wrote:Define droop... are you refering to the deck drooping some toward the tip of the bow? :doh:
Because of the stresses of the panels trying to straighten themselves you sometimes find that the bow area droops slightly.
It can be corrected by lifting and supporting the bow area when you glue the decks on. Mine has a slight droop but actually like the look of it. From bulkhead B to the bow point my deck drops by about a 1/4". I was planning on tapering my gunwales down at the bow anyway so doesn't really concern me.

The West Marine stuff - I have no clue, I'm from South Africa and don't get the stuff here. But from what I've read on this forum it's Ok but not the best. The stuff Bateau sells sounds like it is better.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:32 pm
by BassMunn
flyfish2743 wrote:BassMunn,

What do you think of extending the side panels down and filling in the void with wood and epoxy... another builder suggested this and said other Bateau boats are build this way as well.

flyfish

P.S. I will let Ken know we are talking about these items... his expertise will be most helpful.
You can as long as the chine gets it's correct amount of Glass tape with no air bubbles, those joints are very important. I suppose you would build up the gap first and then tape over them. You would need to round the edges of the chine to lay the glass and then build up the edge again like you do with your transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You mean the transom nor the chine can be rounded over? They both must be formed at a 90?

After laying up the glass you must build up the edge again? Did I interpret this correctly?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:55 pm
by BassMunn
You need to round the edges slightly to get the glass tape to lay over them without causing air bubbles. A sharp edge will cause airbubbles which has no strength. I'm not talking a huge rounded edge, but it needs to be rounded.
Once you have glassed the corners properly, you then build up the edge again with epoxy/woodflour mix and shape it to make the edge sharp again. From what I've read the Chine edge doesn't have to be sharp but the transom edge is critical to boat performance.
If you read Shines FS17 Low Sheer build you can see how he built up the transom and chine edges to make them sharp

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:21 pm
by tarhull87
flyfish,
I fish mostly in saltwater up here in Virginia, but am planning on relocating down to Florida and love the rivers and backcountry fishing available down there. Not a big flyfisher but I like the looks of a clean, smooth deck.

A comment on the overhanging side panels.. I had been considering the OB15 as another option, and that boat uses this concept to create a reverse chine. One thing though is that I feel as if you may have to adjust the bulkheads to accomodate the change so things meet up properly. The use of trim pieces seem like a better alternative to adding this effect as an afterthought to the design.

-Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:13 pm
by tarhull87
Another thing I Just was given the idea about, and makes it kinda cool for a flats boat, is a glassbottom viewing panel kinda thing, how might this be integrated, or is there a best way to do it?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You may be right about the trim pieces. It looks like it would be easier to stitch the panels if the side panel did not over hang the bottom panel. Maybe we will be lucky enough to hear from an OB15 builder on this.

As for the glass.... that is way out of my league. If it were a scuba/snorkel craft for transporting people to their dive site then it would be a neat addition. My fear would be tearing the heck out of the glass by knocking it on oyster beds and sandbars. It also raises some maintenance questions concerning the possibility of leaking.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn,

Do you glass over those screws or do you back them out after the epoxy dries?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:59 am
by BassMunn
Remove the screws once epoxy is dry and then fill the holes with epoxy slurry as well. No screws are left in anywhere in the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cool... that is what I figured. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:53 pm
by tarhull87
flyfish,

What kind of info did Ken Owens give you regarding the modified chine that he did on that PH15?
That combined with a bit of deck overhang is a nice aesthetic.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have not had a chance to talk with him yet but hope to soon.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:07 pm
by tarhull87
Hey flyfish,

Where did you find those casters for your boat stand?
I like the concept, I'm thinking of something similar but with plans just to level the base instead, essentially creating what you have constructed in the pictures up until this point.

-Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I found the casters at Lowes as well as the threaded shafts. Home Depot and Harbor Freight will probably have some as well. Harbor Freight's selection might be better than Lowes or HD.

I plan to put a pipe on the threaded shaft and then build the deck that will hold up the boat. I have designed it to be custom for building the boat upside down or right side up. It should make it very easy to fiberglass and paint the boat and will work in any garage no matter how unlevel.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:46 pm
by tarhull87
Cool, thanks for the info.

You don't by chance have a drawing of that plan you could email me or post on here do ya?

Also, are those 18 foot 2x4s you have there? That's a rare find for me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I sure don't. The design is in my head. :doh:

I think the 2xs were possibly 14 footers for the top of the T and 8 footers for the bottom (cut short to fit of course). I could measure them if you would like, it is currently dissembled. Do you have access to 14 or 16 footers? You could always change up the design a little. However the way I have designed with the threaded shafts is quite handy and reduces the necessary hardware.

You want to consider the length of your garage. The garage in my home I am building should allow me to build right up to 20 feet or so. My plan with the stand was to open the garage door and roll the Boat out a couple of feet so I could access it from all sides while building. Once I move into the new place I plan on finishing the stand.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:40 pm
by tarhull87
I was curious as to the length because I didnt' see a break in the side board and was wondering where it was.
The 2x4 laying flat must come together over top of a solid vertical oriented 2x4 i guess, so that the break is offset by a solid piece underneath.
That sound right? I guess a bit confusing to type out.

Yeah I am going to be building the 18 footer as well.
Hopefully starting in May, when I am done with the school semester. I figure I can get the stand put together before then though.

I've got my plans and read over em a bit every day to both curb the excitement and learn more about the build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This is great! We are starting ours at about the same time.

Look at the following pic on my blog.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cDwlGlLOaew/S ... ot+058.jpg

You can see how the top of the T is one long board and the two boards underneath are separated by the 4 x 4 post. There are three 4 x 4 posts that make up the stand and there is a 24 inch threaded shaft running through each post and the top of the T. This is then bolted together with a washer and a nut on both the top and bottom of the post and the 2 x 4 that makes up the top of the T. I also added a board under the junction in the middle to stiffen up the assembly.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=15720

I had to route groves into the 4 x 4 post to make room for the bolts that hold on the casters. I used 6 400 lb casters. This will give me plenty of strength to hold up the stand and two people working on the boat (assuming they have to get in the hull).

The builders gallery has a lot of photos of this assembly. I will post another blog update when I finish building the stand. It will probably be a few months since I do not plan to build the hull at my current residence. (Lord Willing)

Here is the blog. You may already have this address and this may be where you saw the pics of the stand.

http://www.flyfishingmonk.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:03 pm
by tarhull87
Good deal. Yeah I check out your blog every once and a while looking for updates.

My question still remains.. That top board of your T is only 14 feet, how will the jig fit when it is longer than that? Will the next stage of this stand extend the length of the boat?

I am thinking the upside-down build around the bulkheads on level ground is the best way to go, and I dont see how that could fit on a 14 foot long setup?

Am i missing something?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You got it... the next stage of the stand will extend/surpass the length of the boat. It will overhang the base on each side by a minimum of 2 feet. I remember designing it this was so I would not trip over the base when I walk around the boat. This was also to allow me to sit in a chair while working on the transom and the bow. My goal is for the boat to be high enough off the ground so as not to kill my back, not so high that I can not reach the keel, and not so low that I can not sit in a chair and work as well.

The next level will be much more complex. It will be designed to cradle the hull like a trailer as well as rest flat so I can work on the boat while it is upside down.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:48 pm
by tarhull87
wow thats gonna be a big operation. I might stick with the simple flat base and then work off some temporary supports until it gets to be ready for a trailer.

Sounds like a great idea though, and a very crafty one. I'm thinking more about simply leveling the flat base by adjusting the heights of the wheels, my garage is pretty level as it is.

I may order some 2x4x18s so that i can make a nice flat square rollable surface that the entire boat will fit on, thats kinda what my plan is.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You may come up with a way to put just the caster on a threaded shaft. Then you can thread the shaft up and down somehow to adjust for levelness. I figure I can accomplish the next level with two 2x6s, each 20 feet long. They will be made level by simply adjusting the 6 shafts that prop them up in the air.

I will then come up with something that will simply prop up the boat from the keel when it is right side up, while still using the two 20 foot boards to support the hull from the underside. I may even hinge the two 20 foot boards just above the center threaded shaft to give them the ability to cradle the hull a little better. I am thinking that three more short threaded shafts right in the center of the three 4x4 posts will do the trick for supporting the hull at the keel. All 9 of the threaded shafts will then be micro adjustable by simply rotating the nut to make the stand nice and level. If I roll it to another side of the garage I will simple put a level on the stand and rotate the nuts until it is level again. If I have concern for the two 2x6s warping I might add a 2x4 along the top to make them more rigid and to give me more surface area for holding the boat.

I was able to throw the stand, as you see it, together in a weekend. Once I thought it through it did not take to long to build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:41 am
by tarhull87
I am thinking that my easiest method is to build the stand 8x16, the bow bulkhead is 3 feet back from the tip of the bow anyways, so I feel the tip of the bow can overhang the platform.

This guy did it like that.
http://www.boatbuilder.freeservers.com/ ... heads1.jpg

The difference in mine being that the stand would be the full width of the boat so the entire bulkheads are supported with no overhang, that way the hullsides can rest level on the base as well insuring a level deck.

I could even build a small pulpit of sorts on the 16x8 stand to support the bow with little weight.

The issue is just finding a way to not use seperate boards to run the length of the stand, because a solid piece will be easier to get level then if there are three individual pieces, mind you secured together, trying to get level.

Think this sketch seems reasonable?
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... at=0&pos=0

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:02 pm
by TomW
Tarhull don't do it that way. There is always an angle to the sheer and the frames very in height and you won't be able to rest them on the frame as you have it drawn. I would highly recommend that you follow the instructions that come with the plans for building the frame it is tried and true and you will not gain anything by trying to improve on it. Feel free to ask other builders if they have any suggestions but don't go the way you are suggesting it won't work IMHO.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:36 pm
by tarhull87
One of the recommended build methods is to set up all the bulkheads upsidedown on a flat level surface though?

Like this, http://boatbuildercentral.com/howto/phantom_howto.php

Wouldn't my plan work for that method?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:59 pm
by TomW
Sure go for it. I'd forgotten about that How To. I might put a center piece down the middle to give the frames something to set on in the center also.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:16 pm
by Jimmiller
For my 18PH I build it out of 2x8x16 it work ok .I put 8 caster under it.I put my
bulkheads 24ins offthe ground you got to get under to put tape on the seams.
Image

JIM

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:23 pm
by BassMunn
I did pretty much the same with my jig. To centre everything I found the centres of my building jig at front and back and ran a length of fishing line between the 2 of them. I used the fishing line to line up my centres when installing each bulkhead.
All of the bulkheads lay on an even plane when upside down with the Phantoms so you can use this method, but you have to be very carefull that you install the transom at the correct angle and height.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:56 pm
by tarhull87
I don't have my plans on me, do you guys think this tank could fit up in the bow of the Phantom?
Is it too high of a capacity? 32 gal aluminum. I've got one I could use.

http://www.rdsaluminum.com/images/59049_m1.jpg

Thanks,
Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:45 am
by TomW
Mike it might not fit in the bow but why not build it in under the console. It will still be forward of the CG and with that much gas you can go miles and miles.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:05 am
by Muddler
Mike,

I have a PH18 and have a 20 gallon mounted in front of the second bulkhead. It sits on a platform I constructed above the hull and between the two inside stringers. It is about 2-3 inches below the front deck. I have a 70 Hp Yamaha and can fish for a couple of days with a lot of pretty long runs to several fishing spots. Unless you need to run more then about 3 hours at WOT, a 20 gallon should do. If I remember correctly the "Rule of Thumb" for a 70 HP is 7 gallons per hour at WOT.

I also have two batteries mounted in the front area and the boat sits nice and flat in the water. The designer of the boat saw it at the last Florida Builder's Meet and liked the way the weight distribution made it sit in the water.

Good luck with your build.

Muddler

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:04 pm
by tarhull87
Good deal, I thought a small tank might be more suited for the boat, but I have a 32 thats in great shape... may or may not use it.

Muddler,
Could you give me a few more details on this platform you created, this is exactly what I am hoping to set up. Length, strength, etc.

-Mike

p.s. flyfish, sorry to hijack the thread, you can have it back when you post more progress!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:32 pm
by Muddler
I'll check to see if I have pics, there may be some in my gallery here. 32 gallons is pretty big, what are the dimensions of your tank? The tank I had was narrower then the two inner stringers. I epoxied cleats along the stringers and the second bulkhead and cut a piece of ply to lay on top. you will want to encapsulate the ply in epoxy before you put it in to make it impervious to the gasoline. The tank is strapped to the pylwood sheet with two straps. Fill and vent are through to front deck. I have been told water will get in the tank through the vent but this has not been a problem as yet. the boat was splashed in 10-2007.

Muddler

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:35 pm
by Muddler
Mike,

Click on my name and send me an email address where I can send you a picture of the Tank Compartment.

Muddler

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tarhull87,

I see the thread went in the direction of fuel tanks. Here is what I ordered off of eBay. They appear from the dimensions to be small enough to fit under the front deck.

http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/2009/04/fuel-tanks.html

Muddler - Did you have any problems with the vibration damaging the batteries? I would like to put the trolling batteries under the front deck as well but also had concern for igniting any fumes from the fuel tanks. I would like to place only the starting battery under the center console.

Here are the batteries I was considering ordering.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_p ... /index.php

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:31 am
by TomW
Tarhull batteries and fuel must be in seperate compartments. There cannot be any electrical connection other than the fuel sending guage and the grounding wire in the fuel compartment. This is a standard CG rule and a make sense rule if you think about it.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
What are your guys thoughts on beefing up the deck a little from 3/8 to 1/2? I already have 2 extra sheets of Okoume in 1/2 at the house and would only require me to pick up 2 more sheets. This will give me something a little more rigid to stand on. Any downside other than increasing the weight 20 lbs or so?

I am also curious to know what your thoughts are on taking some of the weight out of the bulkheads with a 4 inch hole saw. Is this a totally bad idea? Or could it be done if they were placed in the correct positions? Here is jacqusem's thoughts concerning making holes to lighten the bulkheads. I found it on the following thread. See quote below.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... to+lighten
Lightening holes are fine and can be cut in all bulkheads. respect a 3" offset form all edges.
You can alos use 1/4" for the benches sides and 1/4" for the frames. You will have to use temporary framing during the assembly.
No shortcuts on the transom.

I don't know if I would lighten the D15 much, it could make the boat "bouncy".
Here is another thread with CrackerLarry's info regarding an FL12's bulkheads.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... ds#p185136

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Have any Phantom builders managed to get the draft less than 6 inches? If so how?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:25 am
by TomW
Casey sorry your October 16 question didn't get answered, but I would not use 1/2" as the 3/8" specified is plenty strong enough and using the 1/2" only adds weight affecting performance and draft.

Now for this question. Yes it has been done by people using Nidacore for all the interior and decking. This reduces the weight by 100-150lbs maybe more. It is expensive for an inch of draft or less, probably 3x the cost. 6" is pretty dang skinny and you won't find many production boats that skinny. The manufactured flats boats I've seen are 7-10" in the style your building.

Good luck on your build and keep asking questions.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Thanks for getting back to me. And thanks for the input! What are you thoughts on taking some of the weight out of the bulkheads, if I stay 3 inches or so in from the edges?

That's a bummer on the 1/2 plywood recommendation, I was hoping to hear a, "Go for it!" I have 2 extra sheets and would only need to pick up 2 more for the deck.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:54 am
by TomW
Casey the bulkheads are so small on that boat I don't know how much you will gain except right at the middle ot he boat. Try it, you have to leave a 3" outside band all the way around the bulkhead and I'll be honest I'd leave a 1-2" vertical band right in the center as a support with a boat as wide as yours.

Really if you want to use the 1/2" you can it adds a little weight, but so be it it's your choice especially since you already have half of it. Like I said it will add weight and when I do my prop calcs for you guys each 100 lbs is roughly a mph depending on the boat.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you again for the input. You guys that help us newbies so much. Chopping on the bulkheads to take out a little weight sounds like fun. The tinkering with ideas is half the enjoyment.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am planning to pick up my hardwood for the boat tomorrow and was wondering what you guys thought of the outboard clamp being assembled of okoume ply versus dimensional mahogany. I have an extra sheet of 5/8 BS1088 okoume but will purchase the dimensional if it is the better route to go. If the choice is dimensional, is there a preferred species of mahogany? I assume Honduras is fine.

Thanks in advance,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:24 pm
by TomW
Plywood is fine and unless it is specked for your boat should be used. Double check you nesting diagram and see if the clamping boards are on it from ply. If so you have your answer. If not then any type of Mahogany will do, but preferably Phillipine it's best as far as rot resistance of the mahoganies. It might also be listed as Indonesion. Honduran mahogany is pretty in woodworking but is not as rot resistant, more like pine.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Not sure what you mean when you say, "see if the clamping boards are on it from ply." Everything appears to be showing the use of hardwood adjacent to the ply transom on the plans.

I will see if they have the Phillipine in stock.

Thanks for the help Tom!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:32 am
by Muddler
You read the plans correctly, the Clamp calls for mahogony to be used. I would think you could lam up some ply with FG between, and get an acceptable clamping board. Only Jacques could really say, and he may have posted somewhere else as to what would be acceptable for similar applications. I am not really sure why the plans call for dimensional Mahogany over ply I am sure there are definite advantages. Have you made a search?

I used Philippine Mahogany, there was some GEL epoxy in the epoxy kit I purchased, and I used it to attach the clamp to the plywood transom. The gel has excellent gap filling capabilities, very good for this type of work, in my opinion.

What ever you do, be sure to FULLY cover the clamping board with epoxy, it is an area of rot waiting to happen, when you have it coated all over, put on another coat for good measure. Be sure to seal the holes (inside) which are bored through the transom for mounting the motor. There are some excellent discussions about drilling the holes oversized, filling with epoxy/wood flour, and the coming back and drilling the mounting holes with the bolt hole size so the hole is completely sealed from the invasion of water.

Best of luck,

Muddler

Enjoying my PH18!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:08 am
by Cracker Larry
I am not really sure why the plans call for dimensional Mahogany over ply I am sure there are definite advantages. Have you made a search?
It's a matter of grain orientation. Ply of the same thickness as dimensional lumber only has half the grain running in the needed direction for strength, so it would take twice the thickness in plywood to get the same strength.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the input - this makes sense. I'll go with the hardwood and specifically look for the Philippine mahogany.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:43 pm
by TomW
Larry is exactly right and that is why I said look to see if it was on the nesting plans out of plywood or solid hardwoods. A lot of the boats do use plywood and some do use a hardwood clamping board. It depends on the Scantling that Jacques calculations require for the transom.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:10 pm
by BassMunn
I used layers of Ply for my clamping board after Jacques approval for my PH16

Here's the link for reference, JM's post is at the bottom of page 1
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17782

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
In light of BassMunn's comments and the designer's input on his thread, I think I am leaning toward using layers of Okoume for the transom. I tried my local wood store for the Philippine mahogany outboard clamp but not luck. All they had was Honduras.

I have quite a bit of Honduras mahogany left over from a desk I built that I was thinking of using for the 1 x 1 cleats under the cockpit floor. Is this a bad idea? I'm also curious if I may use okoume ply for the sheer clamp and the cleat under the gunwale. I have enough 1/2 stock to easily build up the 1 x 2 nominal.

Thanks for all the help.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:49 am
by TomW
Casey Okoume is no more rot resistant than Honduran mahogany just coat it with epoxy and it will be fine for your cleats. Just remember we pre-drill oversize and fill everything with epoxy anyway. Okoume is African mahogany and is similar in rot resistance to Honduran. Meranti is made of the good stuff and comes from Indonesia.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:47 am
by cottontop
Casey, Look at some of "StickyStuffs" threads. He used Ply laminated. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cottontop - I searched and searched but no luck. Was it his PH16? I was hoping to find some picks but could not get the builder's galleries to work.

I am planning on changing the shape of the cockpit up a bit toward the bow and the flexibility of the ply for the cleat would be much easier to work with. Same goes for the sheer clamp. Any reason not to use it if I beef it up just a tad to compensate for the grain orientation? Assuming the grain going perpendicular to the length of the board is not adding much benefit in strength.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:38 am
by cottontop
Casey he has built a couple of Phantoms. One foam and one conventional. The conventional was the one using the ply for the transom. It was a PH16. Contact him on this forum. He is on here quite often and will fill you in with details as soon as he see's it. I'm going to build a PH 18 soon. I plan on using his method for transom on mine. I think he used 2 pieces of 3/4 inch ply, fiberglassed on each side, then glued together. john

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:42 am
by cape man
Casey,

Didn't go back through your whole thread, but I used some clear (no knots) southern yellow pine (2X10) for the clamping boards, based on input I received here. I went through every board they had in stock to select them, knowing that I needed strength. I also spent extra time and attention to coat them 3 times with epoxy, built solid filets, taped them on, then covered them with 12 oz biax, and overdrilled all the holes for the motor mounts and transom U-bolts. Wood only rots if it gets wet, and then is exposed to oxygen, neither of which should ever see the inside of my clamping boards (or any other wood on my boat). With the ply, clamping boards, and all the laminations, the transom is solid as a rock. Save the expensive mahogany for a place where you'll see it and clear coat it. Just my $0.02.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:28 am
by Cracker Larry
Save the expensive mahogany for a place where you'll see it and clear coat it. Just my $0.02.
Mine too. SYP or douglas fir will work just as well as mahogany.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Decisions, decisions....

I appreciate all the input and look forward to thinking further on this topic.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:45 am
by SmokyMountain
I'm building a PH18 too. I broke down and got African mahogany this last weekend for the clamp board. I would have gotten white oak (half the price) as a substitute, but the place I was at didn't have white oak or any other piece of wood that was a 1 foot wide and an inch thick in the same weight / density/ strength class. The African is strong and solid but I feel like its a sin to paint over it. It's a nice pice of wood and expensive... $55.00 for a 7.5 foot x 1foot piece. If I could have found a suitable substitue I would have.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:08 pm
by TomW
Andrew African mahagony is Okoume and not very rot resistant, the same as regular pine. Make sure you coat it with a couple of layers of epoxy and when you bore your engine mounting holes you over drill them and fill with epoxy and then redrill the right size. Your only real gain here was the solid board. White oak would have been better, Douglas fir, Southern yellow pine and Meranti 1088 Ply even better.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:25 am
by Doc_Dyer
ciao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:20 pm
by TomW
40 years experience working with wood. I posted a discussion earlier on characterists on both hardwoods and softwoods in boat building. Here I'll give you the summary chart. http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5e.html There is one major discrepancy on it and that is with the mahoganies the African and Honduran are only for the heart wood and can basically no longer be gotten, which is a shame they are beautiful woods in furniture. I tried to get some for a project 4-5 years ago and couldn't find enough for it, apparently the funiture companies have it all accounted for. The sapwood can be gotten but it is not rot resistant. It's been so long since I saw real African mahogany I just lump it all together as non-boat building wood. I would never, ever use Okoume(Gaboon Mahogany) if I did not have to. It is fine coated with epoxy and proprerly drilled and epoxy filled. Basically, yes it has similar characteristics to basic pine found at Lowe's or HD as far as rot resistance, and basic strength, when put together in Ply form then it is stronger and can be used in boat building, I would prefer a stonger wood for a solid peice though.

I am by the way using Okoume in the upper panels on my boat because of it's bending qualities and lighter weight. I'm not totally against it in boat building it just has to be coated.

Andrew if that was really African mahogany you could have gotten it was probably sap wood and you don't really want it anyway.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:08 pm
by Doc_Dyer
ciao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
you are saying that African mahogony is has the same characteristics as regular pine?
So you are saying that JM ( the designer) is wrong in using Mahogany for the clamping board :doh: :doh: :doh:
I don't think he's saying that Bradley, just that a good piece of Southern Yellow pine, longleaf pine, will work just as well, maybe better. SYP is not "regular pine" like the white pines you see in big box stores. Many of our 200 year old homes are made of it, unpainted. It doesn't rot and it's very strong. You can't even drive a nail in it without pre-drilling the hole. It's as strong and rot resistant as any mahogany. Not as pretty though. The Southeast SYP forests were logged for hundreds years to build ships all over the world.

Some softwoods are harder than some hardwoods :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:08 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Some softwoods are harder than some hardwoods :wink:
Very true, Balsa is classified as a Hardwood

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:21 pm
by Doc_Dyer
ciao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:24 pm
by Doc_Dyer
ciao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:31 pm
by TomW
Doc_Dyer wrote:per the web site quoted by Tom

MAHOGANY, AFRICAN
(khaya, utile)
32 lbs. per cubic foot, 2.67 lbs. per board foot
Very similar to genuine mahogany, it comes from Africa. Color ranges from light pink to bright red or reddish brown, but is not as variable as mahogany. The wood is hard, strong, decay resistant, of low shrinkage, and seasons well. There are several species of so-called "African" mahoganies, but those listed above are the most suitable for boat building.

MAHOGANY, HONDURAS
(Mexican mahogany)
34 lbs. per cubic foot, 2.83 lbs. per board foot
True mahogany grows in the West Indies, Central America, the northern part of South America, and some in the southern part of Florida. The types frequently used in boating are called Honduras and Mexican mahoganies. Color varies from deep red to reddish brown in the heartwood, with sapwood a pale yellow. The heartwood is decay resistant, fairly strong, and seasons well, with low and uniform shrinkage. Hardness, weight, and strength can vary depending on where the lumber is from, with the Central American variety being more variable.


these seem to be very much alike, and if the Designer wanted you to use pine from Lowes or Home depot he would have put that in the BOM :doh:

sorry for the hijack and soapbox rant...
just reached my limit :roll:
If you can find Khaya or Utile in the states show me where. As it says above only the HEARTWOOD of Honduran/Mexican mahogany is rot resistant. Haven't seen any HEARTWOOD in a long time, as I said in my last post as far as I know it is going to the furniture manufactures. Different parts of trees have different properties and not all parts of each tree is suitable for the same project. Just as I wouldn't use new cut Southern Yellow Pine that they grow now. There are places where you can get old growth where the wood is worth using. If you don't know what your talking about don't talk.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:43 pm
by Doc_Dyer
ciao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:46 pm
by TomW
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry he refered to the wood at Lowes and Home Depot
At our Lowes and Home Depot I can buy Southern Yellow Pine,although I'd rater get it from a lumber yard. I use it for cleats and clamping boards. It's good stuff.
if the Designer wanted you to use pine from Lowes or Home depot he would have put that in the BOM
Not necessarily, he might spec the best wood that was available to him at the time, in his location. There is maybe a small section of the USA that has good SYP available. I don't know it's widespread availability. Once you encapsulate it in fiberglass and epoxy, it probably doesn't matter if you use cardboard :lol:
just reached my limit :roll:
I know that feeling. Think Irie :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:02 pm
by PJPiercey
It's been so long since I saw real African mahogany I just lump it all together as non-boat building wood. I would never, ever use Okoume(Gaboon Mahogany) if I did not have to. It is fine coated with epoxy and proprerly drilled and epoxy filled. Basically, yes it has similar characteristics to basic pine found at Lowe's or HD as far as rot resistance, and basic strength, when put together in Ply form then it is stronger and can be used in boat building, I would prefer a stonger wood for a solid peice though.
:roll: How can you go from African Mahogany to Gaboon :doh: There's lots of African Mahogany available around here. I use it and it's a very good wood for solid pieces.

Okoume Pounds per cubic foot maximum 25

African Mahogany Pounds per cubic foot maximum 36

There are only two African mahogany species. The Latin names (genus and species) are Khaya grandifoliola and K. senegalensis.

Okoume has the name of Aucoumea klaineana, so it is not even in the same genus as African mahogany. Its properties are not that close either.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:11 pm
by PJPiercey
If you don't know what your talking about don't talk.
Tom has posted over 6,700 times. The above quote takes the cake. He has posted ZERO pictures of what HE can build. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:33 pm
by TomW
Yep agree with below! No more from me! For those that know me they can find pictures of my thread prior thread and repair build.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:55 pm
by StngStr
a pissing match about wood? really? This is a man's thread about building his boat. Not for the two of you to argue about who knows more about wood.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
It appears that there are a handful of suitable choices that may out live either us or the boat's practical use. I will most likely use what is readily available, cost effective, and easily acquired, assuming it will meet the requirements for rot prevention and strength. For me this happens to be the two extra sheets of Okoume 1/2 BS1088 I have stored at the house. One sheet for the console and one most likely to be chopped up and used for the cleat, sheer clamp and transom. The left over Honduras mahogany I have from building a desk, which has been taking up to much shop space for to long, will most likely get used for the cleats under the cockpit floor.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:15 am
by cape man
It appears that there are a handful of suitable choices that may out live either us or the boat's practical use. I will most likely use what is readily available, cost effective, and easily acquired, assuming it will meet the requirements for rot prevention and strength.
Perfect. Sorry for all the ranting and if I contributed to it in any way. Seal everything well and you'll be fine. So much of the ranking for wood for boat building is based on traditional wooden boat building which is not really applicable with the stitch and glue sytem. The only place this is not true is in marine ply, and that has more to do with the lack of voids and adhesives used to make it.
The left over Honduras mahogany I have from building a desk, which has been taking up to much shop space for to long, will most likely get used for the cleats under the cockpit floor.
A perfect solution to both problems...need cleats and need to clean up!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:43 am
by TomW
Yep great idea. I apologize for getting off base. :oops: Don't normally do that.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am excited that there is this much activity on the thread. Everybody's expertise and input has been most helpful. I look forward to posting up more questions and comments soon.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Pitch me your ideas. I have been working on the push pole platform and am wanting to add a lip so the person standing on the platform will feel the edge without looking down. Something tall enough to still feel with shoes on. I also want it to be aesthetically pleasing and capable of draining. Which means it will not actually go all the way around the perimeter.

Any thoughts? Here are some pictures. http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/ This is my blog and you will see the pics under the three paragraph post addressing this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's going to look great Casey 8)

How about some teak molding strips or battens?

Image

Image

These people have about any kind of teak molding you want.

http://www.buckwoodcraft.com/teak_moldi ... ak_Molding

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:43 pm
by cape man
or if you have any more of this...
The left over Honduras mahogany I have from building a desk, which has been taking up to much shop space for to long, will most likely get used for the cleats under the cockpit floor.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man, Cracker Larry,

Ok - you guys got me thinking. A combination of ideas. I can first rip some 1 x 3 dimensional mahogany on my table saw. I could then route all four edges to make a nice batten on both sides. I rip both battens off the top and bottom of the 1 x 3 on the table saw. I then cross cut the battens on the band saw to make them nice and flexible so they will curve around the corners of the platform. Kind of like those hand made wooden snakes you see with the lifelike painting design on them. If they break no worries... its scrap wood. What do you think??

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:00 pm
by Cracker Larry
Unless I misunderstand, wouldn't the corners be best left open for drainage? No need to worry about the corners, just the 4 sides

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:03 pm
by cape man
I then cross cut the battens on the band saw to make them nice and flexible so they will curve around the corners of the platform.
Perfect! It's called "kerfing". Check this out.
http://www.allwoodwork.com/article/wood ... g_wood.htm

Talks about kerfing and other methods for bending wood. I love teak, but I also love the idea of using scraps you have been holding onto for something just like this. Either should set that platform off beautifully and assure anyone looking at it knows right away it is yours.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man,

Nice web page. This is exactly what I was needing. Very helpful.

I tinker with this idea some and see how it pans out.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:03 am
by cape man
Check this out...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=220

An early FS17 using kerfing to make the coming on the gunwales. Check out the end of his build and see how nice it came out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hey - That does look nice. This turned out very slick. I hope to do something similar. I would like one up on the bow as well so the fly line will stay up on the bow a little better and may be less prone to sliding off in the wind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Has anyone used the Evinrude concealed sidemount rigging? If so do you have any pics of it? I like the idea of it being low profile but can't seem to find any pics of it installed.

Thanks!!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:06 pm
by cape man
Casey,

email evinrude. Can't find a pic either. Looks like a side mount with guts inside the console instead of outside.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man,

Yeah, I think I will have to. Even on their page they are lacking a pic. Have you had any experience with their I-Command gauges?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
What are your thoughts on the Minn Kota's Trim and Troll set up. I have seen pics of another Phantom with them installed. Do you know who's it is?

From a weight distribution stand point I will have a 320lb Evinrude 90 on the transom. The starter and two trolling batteries will be located under the center console and the two fuel tanks installed under the front deck.

Are trim tabs even needed on the Phantom 18?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:58 pm
by SmokyMountain
What are your thoughts on the Minn Kota's Trim and Troll set up.
Casey,

I'm building a PH 18 and plan to use the troll and trim. I primary use a fly rod too and like the idea of nothing cluttering up the deck. ( I'll also put in cleats for a bow mount trolling motor just in case.) There was some posting on Florida Sports forum a while back about that set up and the guy liked them. He said once you get used to the controls it was great. I also plan to use a 90 etec or possibly a Yami F-series 4 stroke. I believe the weights quite close. I haven't decided where to put the trolling batteries, like you, probably under the console to help distribute weight.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew,

Thanks for responding. How is your build coming?I have been more or less in accumulation mode for tools and hardware. I just set up the coolest vac system in my shop for the build. It's a 2 HP 230 volt set up with dedicated 4 inch lines that go to all the major tools and one 2 inch line that comes down from the center of the garage ceiling. It is 20 feet long and perfect for cleaning in and around the boat. I am picking up some more materials this weekend in Austin.

Here is my blog for the build. http://www.caseysboat.blogspot.com My most recent pics are of the deck to the casting platform.

What epoxy do you plan on using? I really like the looks of the Silvertip kit Bateau is selling for the PH 18. Price seems fair and the amounts I'm sure the material usage is well thought out. If you go with the etec do you plan to use I Command?

Casey

PS I LOST MY PLANS!!!!!! I don't know where they are to save my life!!!!! So very frustrating. I had them in a three ring binder inside plastic sleves and for the life of me don't know where they ended up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have managed to misplace my boat plans....... what a travesty. I can not find them anywhere!!! I hope the lil one did not put the folder in the trash. :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:43 am
by tech_support
please send an email to the order desk and see about getting new drawings. You will have to pay only printing and shipping

orders@e-boat.net

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Shine - Thanks for the info. I will do this.

I have another question for you regarding the epoxy kit you guys sell for the Ph 18. I recall on the plans that the fiberglass is not required to come all the way up the sides of the hull but was a suggestion. I plan to fiberglass the complete hull. Does the 3M kit have the necessary amount for this or do I need to have some added when I place my order?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:28 pm
by tech_support
You will need a little more if your going to glass all the way up the side. You can wait to order more until you run out, then you have a better idea of how much more you will need.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good call. That's what I will do. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Since my plans are missing I got a quick question I can't answer until my next set arrives. I need your help filling in the blanks. 9 - 1/4 inch sheets are for the hull. 5 - 1/2 inch sheets are for the ____________. And 8 - 3/8 sheets are for the _____________. I'm picking up some wood tomorrow but trying to remember what 4 x 8 sheet goes to what part on the boat. Can you help? Man lost plans are a bummer.

Thanks

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:22 pm
by TomW
Casey I'm guessing on the 1/2" but they are for the transom and for the sole, probably 3 for the transom 2 for the sole, though they all could be for the transom. The 3/8" are for the bulkheads/frames/decks. Hope that helps.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Thanks for your help on that last post. Now, assuming I stick with the ply I have for the deck and sole I am only 2 sheets of ply short of a full boat.

I recently picked up the bow nav light and the base for the stern pole light. I have also acquired an excellent trailer from my father. It is only about a year old. Both fuel tanks are in the garage as well as the push pole platform. Next I plan to finish up the boat stand and then order the epoxy kit from Bateau.

Lord willing the construction of my PH18 will take place after a friend and I build his Orca 21 and after the Texas heat has passed. We picked up his plywood a few weeks ago and plan to purchase the plans in the next week or two. I'm sure I'll pick your brain when we start tackling the epoxy.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Shine - Located plans. :)

Do you guys think the Neoprene Fuel Tank Pads and the Tank Hold Down Kit will work for the following tanks?

http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/2009/04/fuel-tanks.html

The height is 8 3/4 inches and the width is 13 1/2.

Neoprene Tank Pads - http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... 9443_1%2F4

Tank Hold Down Kit (With Strap) - http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... 2784_9013A

I am a little leery of the straps coming lose from the vibration. Does anybody know the dimensions of the Tempo's Fuel Tank Hold Down Kit? Maybe I should use them instead.

Here is the Tempo Hold Down Bracket http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... 103-300090

I am also wondering, do I use a "T" fitting to split to both tanks for the fuel fill line and one deck fill? And if so does Bateau sell a "T" for this?

Thanks - Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:36 pm
by JamesT
Casey, my name is James and i live just east of Dallas, could you email me at James_teena1994 on the Y? i'd like to ask you a couple of questions,

Thanks in advance.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
JamesT,

I just sent you an email.

Sincerely,

Casey Short

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:34 pm
by tech_support
Those are permanent tanks, the webbing straps are only for temporary/removable tanks. You should either use those metal brackets (I did not look to see if they fit your tank of not), or you can make your own. You can make your own brackets to hold the tanks from plywood.

Separate fills and separate vents for the two tanks. Use a fuel line valve to select the tank you want to pull from, or both. Its normal to see this selection valve ahead of the fuel/water separator.

with 36 gallons of fuel, you will be able to run to Mexico and back :!: Seriously, that's a lot of gas for a light boat. I think I had the same size in my PH16, and with an old 2 stroke 40 hp (not the most fuel efficient motor) I rarely used close to half a tank. If you take her on multi-day camping trips, the extra fuel would certainly be nice to have. Dont let the fuel sit though, rotate the tanks as much as possible.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Shine

Great - I'll probably just make some tank hold downs out of ply then. As for the two tanks - the camping is exactly what I am thinking. I plan to camp on the gulf to go hunting for reds. The extra fuel capacity will come in handy. Two fills and the valve makes sense to me.

Thanks for responding so quickly.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Shine - do you know anybody who will be shipping wood to the Dallas metro in the next 3 to 6 months? Is an order just something that happens when it happens? I need to pick up a couple sheets of 1/2 inch 1088 okoume and wanted to piggyback on a larger order and kick in some cash to help with the shipping. What are your thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:37 am
by TomW
Casey most of the guys there in Texas have found a supplier in Dallas or Houston don't remember which. Ask Dougster.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

I found one in Houston but it's still a good distance away. I picked up some 1/4 ply in in Austin but they lacked the 1/2. There is a company here that can order the 1/2 in Meranti 1088 but I was trying to stick with all Okoume. All the other wood I have for this boat is Okoume.

I may just have the Dallas store pick me up a couple of pieces of Meranti and not look back. However, I wanted to try to give Bateau some biz as well. I plan to purchase the epoxy kit from Bateau.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Any thoughts on fuel vents? How far forward in the hull do they need to be to avoid catching spray? Or is that even a problem?

Here are a couple I like. Both are low profile and look classy. The first one is by Attwood and the second by Whitecap.

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... mount-vent

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/google/c ... ?vp=163560

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Or better yet - How about these Perko options with the fuel vent included in the fitting? And it's 45 degrees so it makes the tight fit under the deck a little less difficult.

http://www.iboats.com/Combination-Gas-F ... _id.237345

http://www.iboats.com/Vented-Fill-With- ... _id.341927

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Captain's log Stardate 2010.8.2

Sweetness. The deck fills arrived today. The bow nav light as well as the stern nav light base have recently arrived as well.

On a side note. My buddy's Orca 21 plans came in the mail last week. As soon as he has the funds for the epoxy kit he will have everything he needs to complete the boat. This will allow me to get some fiberglass practice in before working on the PH18.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
After your boat is built, what do you do to make it legal in the state of TX? Any ideas? How does one go about certifying an amateur boat? I'm sure there is a thread on this somewhere. Does the Coast Guard have to inspect it?

Thanks in advance,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:18 pm
by JamesT
I built my father in law an FL12....He took it down to the TPWD in Garland.. They have an inspector look over it, took about 10 mins. Gave him his hull number, then he just had to wait a couple of weeks for all of the paper work to go thru and get it all finalized.

I'd call the TPWD or go see them, get any necessary paper work you need, schedule an appointment with the inspector (think he only does it once or twice a week) and ask any questions you have then. Nothing worse than running all over town trying to appease the government.

Also a good idea to take pictures, save receipts, your plans...just in case it's so nice that cant believe you built it :D .

All seriousness, he had it all done in a day, with out near as much headache as you would think.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:11 am
by hooter
funny...I stopped by TPWD here in Kerrville today to ask the same question in anticipation of my build completion.

1) schedule a hull inspection with GW. James T is correct only every week or two to do this so anticipate you completion early.

2) fill out a couple of forms. One is a boat description another is tax proof. The lady I talked to said keeping your receipts is a PITA and it is easier for all involved for you to sign an affidavit that states what materials you purchased and that you paid taxes at the time of purchase. This way you can avoid a stiff tax bill at the time of registration and the poor lady behind the counter doesn't have to go through your Home Depot receipt and separate out the cabinets for your home and the zip-ties for your boat stitching.

3) motor form. pretty straightforward BUT...if you purchase a new motor online you need SIGNED copy of the invoice. not sure why but she said make sure you do it to make you and their life easier.

hOOter

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hooter and James,

Thank you for your input. Very helpful!

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I sent these back to the seller. They sit up to high for my liking. They appear that they could easily catch a toe or catch the fly line.

http://www.iboats.com/Vented-Fill-With- ... _id.341927

I'm thinking about going with something like this.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... +Plate+Cap

And then fitting it with an elbow like this.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... 11221&BASE

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:21 pm
by TomW
With the new one you will need a seperate 5/8 vent that will have to run out the side of the boat, as well as a grounding wire run from the fill to the grounding screw on the tank and then the negative or seperate grounding buss bar.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Makes sense Tom. I will order the appropriate parts.

I assume the vents are manufactured with a check valve. However, should I have concern with where the vent is located on the hull. My tanks are under the front deck. I was planning, assuming I go with the deck fill I described that does not have the vent built in, to mount it as close to the tanks as I could and just under the deck to keep it as high as possible.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:06 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:After your boat is built, what do you do to make it legal in the state of TX? Any ideas? How does one go about certifying an amateur boat? I'm sure there is a thread on this somewhere. Does the Coast Guard have to inspect it?

Thanks in advance,

Casey

A game warden inspects it. Only takes a couple of minutes. Here's a link to a list of offices and phone numbers. Just call and make an appointment. They will be surprised and impressed. Most of the boats they inspect aren't of the quality turned out here. :)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/bo ... locations/

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Steven. Very helpful indeed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
After talking with the distributor it looks like the deck fill from Perko and the 90 from Grako will work for my application.

This will require me to select a vent. Any thoughts on the one below? How far forward in the hull do they need to be to avoid catching spray? Or is that even a problem?

Here are a couple I like. Both are low profile and look classy. The first one is by Attwood and the second by Whitecap.

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... mount-vent

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/google/c ... ?vp=163560

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Any thoughts on the one below?
Those are good vents. Get the 90 degree barb fitting and angle it up, and make a loop in your vent hose higher than the fitting. Any water that come in will hopefully run out.

Image
How far forward in the hull do they need to be to avoid catching spray?
No matter where you put them, they will get some spray. Sometimes they will even get buried underwater. That's why you want a vent loop :wink: In a small boat I'd try to keep them in the front half of the boat and as high as possible, but leave room above it for a hose loop. You could install a clam shell over it for spray protection, but it won't help a bit if the vent goes underwater.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:01 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Any thoughts on the one below?
Those are good vents. Get the 90 degree barb fitting and angle it up, and make a loop in your vent hose higher than the fitting. Any water that come in will hopefully run out.

Image
How far forward in the hull do they need to be to avoid catching spray?
No matter where you put them, they will get some spray. Sometimes they will even get buried underwater. That's why you want a vent loop :wink: In a small boat I'd try to keep them in the front half of the boat and as high as possible, but leave room above it for a hose loop. You could install a clam shell over it for spray protection, but it won't help a bit if the vent goes underwater.

Image
To hijack this for a minute but on the same subject, what about the Fill/Vent fittings? CL I know you used one of these and I was planning on doing the same. Do you need to put a vent loop in that also? Pretty hard to do in your case and mine? Just curious.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:51 pm
by TomW
LarryB you should always try to have a loop in the vent as a precaution against water getting in there.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:17 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
Any thoughts on the one below?
Those are good vents. Get the 90 degree barb fitting and angle it up, and make a loop in your vent hose higher than the fitting. Any water that come in will hopefully run out.

Image

That's the one I went with and did exactly as Larry describes. Mines right in front of the casting deck bulkhead. Mounted with just enough room above for the hose to arch up. Course it's not launched yet, so I'm no expert, but I liked it better than any other I reviewed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry, Larry, Steven and Tom,

I wondered if you guys were using loops or not. We use to do a similar thing in the pool industry for the same reason. I'm glad you guys brought it up because I would have gone with the straight and probably not used the loop.

I ordered the 45 degree Fill/Vent fitting from Perko. After measuring it I ran into three problems. The first was after installation the fuel cap will rest very high above the deck. This would create a potential trip hazard and the fly line could tangle around the cap as well. The third problem I could foresee running into is the fuel fill line having to dip a little and then incline back up to the tank in order to work. This would create a place for fuel to rest in the fill line. Probably not a major problem but an issue nonetheless. I sent it back. This is what I had ordered. http://www.iboats.com/Vented-Fill-With- ... _id.341927

I am planning to go the route of using a Perko deck fill that rests much closer to the deck and joining this with a Graco 90. This will get the fuel line above the tank. Here is what they look like.

Deck Fill

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... +Plate+Cap

90 degree fitting.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/1/ ... e-npt.html

As for the fuel vent, I'm leaning toward the Attwood or the Whitecap. They both look nice.

Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
What are your guy's thoughts on pop up cleats? I'm looking to install two toward the front and two toward the back of the boat.

My concerns are height, trip hazard and line entanglement. My fav so far is the Flat-Top Cleat.

Here is the URL. http://foreandaftmarine.com/FT-400.htm

Here are some others options.
Vestus - http://www.vetus.nl/seamail/april_2007/seamail.html
Atwood - http://parts.cycletrader.com/eshopprod_ ... CLEATS.htm
SeaDog - http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP8 ... rce=google

I'm not to keen on the look of the Accon.

Thanks for all your help.

PS. Next up - Folding Push Pole Hooks and Bow and Stern U Bolts. (If that is what they are called.) :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
what about the Fill/Vent fittings? CL I know you used one of these and I was planning on doing the same. Do you need to put a vent loop in that also? Pretty hard to do in your case and mine? Just curious.
Yes, but since my fitting is on top of the deck it's impossible to make a bend above it, but you still want to make a loop in the hose, actually a full circle, to act as a water trap. Mine is just below the bow deck.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:44 pm
by Larry B
Cracker Larry wrote:
Yes, but since my fitting is on top of the deck it's impossible to make a bend above it, but you still want to make a loop in the hose, actually a full circle, to act as a water trap. Mine is just below the bow deck.
:oops: :oops: :oops: I'm gonna have to buy more 5/8" :oops: :oops:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Today I ordered the following!!!

2 - Perko Deck Fills marked "Gas"
2 - 90 Degree Graco Fittings
10 - AWA S/S Clamps with Tail Tips
2 - Attwood flush mount Vents
1 - S/S Bow .5 Inch by 3.5 U Bolt
2 - S/S Stern .5 Inch by 3.5 U Bolts

However, I need input on what size cleat to purchase, the 4" or the 6". I plan to install two near the bow and two near the stern. I'll save 6 lbs total by going with the 4" but I'm concerned it will be a little small for the rope.

Here are the specks on the cleat I plan to purchase. http://www.flattopcleats.com/products.htm I may just order both sizes and send back the size I don't like.

Thoughts?

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. I purchased the domain http://www.flyfishingmonk.com to start my blog about building the PH18. My old blog is http://www.caseysboat.blogspot.com. I'll move the old posts over and I'll let you know when I get some posts up. SWEETNESS

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:02 am
by cape man
I used the smaller cleats along the gunwales (2 on each side) but in hind sight wish I had gone for larger ones in the rear for when I want to drop a stern anchor. Getting a thick line secured is hard with those little cleats. I think they are plenty strong, but they barely take one wrap before the teeth are full. They work fine for mooring at a dock.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man,

Great advice. I will go with the 6 Inch then.

Thank you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cleats have been ordered. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Can you shorten a stern light?

The base that works best with my poling platform I already own. However, the pole length of the stern light is way longer than needed for the one meter rule.

It is a two pin Perko 1049 and the lights that are compatible have the numbers 1401, 1441 and 1461. Can I modify it or will I have to stick with their shortest of 33 inches. I don't mind doing a little soldering either.

Thanks!!!

Casey

P.S. I installed a 2 HP industrial vacuum system in my garage for the rest of the build. It picks up dust from the table saw, band saw, router, two floor sweeps and one 2.5 inch line that descends directly over the center of the boat. And to top it all off it has a remote start! Way cool!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:57 am
by cape man
There's nothing inside the pole except two wires so you can easily shorten the pole. The trick will be getting a good connection and seal at which ever end you decide to work at, the base or the light. Both of them are just a compression fitting (no threads).

The dust system sounds great!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man,

Thank you for the input!

I hope to blog on the vac system in the future so other people may get some good ideas from the set up. It went together very easy. Maybe some fellow boat builders will find it helpful.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm starting on my buddy's Orca 21 tomorrow. We're cutting out all the wood. This will give me great practice before I start on the Phantom epoxy in the fall.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question concerning the push pole platform.

I'm working on the toe rail for the top of my platform. Do you guys have any suggestions as to height? I have some 3/8" and 1/2" scrap I can use. I'm also considering a toe rail for the bow as well.

This would get the job done but I'm not to fond of the look. http://www.dolphinboats.com/pdf/16-Back ... r_2010.pdf

However, this one looks great but I would go with a white finish instead of natural. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cDwlGlLOaew/S ... h/pic1.jpg

Any thoughts? Concerns?

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. This week I have been helping a fellow builder cut out an Orca 21. Very cool boat. It's coming along nicely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:12 am
by cape man
The 1/2" rounded over sealed and painted would be my choice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Cape Man for the input.

I received my 6 inch (qty 4) cleats this week from Flat Top Cleats. These things are sweet. They appear to be very robust and will only come up above the deck 1/8 inch.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cape Man

I ended up using the 3/8 inch for the toe trim on the push pole platform. I had more of it.

I set the 1/2 and 3/8 next to one another on the floor and noticed that under a tennis shoe they could each be felt pretty well.

1/4 inch under the tennis shoe almost went unnoticed. The platform is coming along nicely.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm looking to purchase the push pole holders and here is the one I am considering. It's from Attwood. Any thoughts? Other options?

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... le-Holder0

Thanks in advance.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:47 am
by SmokyMountain
'm looking to purchase the push pole holders and here is the one I am considering. It's from Attwood. Any thoughts? Other options?

That looks good. I know there are a few other out there, I think the main thing to consider is how to drain the water out of the base. Those have a optional drain cup or you could make some yourself.

Check this website out http://www.polecatpushpoles.com/products.htm . The have a Po-Lock Push Pole Lock Down Device, I know on my buddies Ranger if you are in the chop the push pole will bounce our of the the flush mount ones. You have to zip tie it....sort of a pain.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:10 pm
by MarkOrge
Not to sound selfish, but could we get some pictures or are you posting on the pix site? (couldn't find)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge,

Good call. I have been relying on links for pics since I have been more in the part acquisition mode. However, I will try to get some pics up of the progress of the push pole platform. I'm going out of the country in Sept and, Lord willing, plan to start on the hull in Oct when it cools down.
I will definately post more pics.

Currently I am working on a design for the center console with my father. He is going to put it into Autocad. Once the design is done I will post the pics for feedback.

Sound good?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew,

Thanks for the link. I was wondering where to purchase parts for the push pole. Now I know. I'm planning on ordering the pole kit from Bateau but did not know where to find the ends.

As for the hold down kit you suggested, do you think a bungie cord around the two cleats on that side of the boat would suffice? It may save me a few bucks, a little weight and a little time.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:36 pm
by Cracker Larry
Here is a link to some push pole ends that's been on our local Craig's List. I'm not affiliated, just passing on the link :wink:

http://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/1910948967.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:39 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Andrew,

Thanks for the link. I was wondering where to purchase parts for the push pole. Now I know. I'm planning on ordering the pole kit from Bateau but did not know where to find the ends.

As for the hold down kit you suggested, do you think a bungie cord around the two cleats on that side of the boat would suffice? It may save me a few bucks, a little weight and a little time.

Sincerely,Casey
Once a year a guy will tell the story about how his push pole will fly off while he is running hard to stay in front of a storm but, most often you hear the story about how it flew off when he hit a pot hole on the way back from the ramp. Every time I hear the story I flash to an image of the pole digging into a wake or bouncing off the pavement and then I just don't want to think about what happens next! The only time I have seen a good bungee is while it is still in the wrapper on the shelf.

I don't think it is a necessarily a bad idea to buy one of those packs of 500 or 1,000 nylon cable ties and quickly locking the pole in place until you get back home. Plus, those things are like duct tape. You can always use them for something. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Cracker Larry!

Sitandfish - good point.

So I was at my dad's this weekend. We put a new edge on the low angle block plane my buddy and I are using to build the Orca 21. I looked away for one sec and somehow sliced the heck out of the back of my finger!!! Watch those hand planes when the blade is out fellows. Man are they sharp!!!! After all the hours in my wood shop over the years this is my first legitimate injury. It should close up in a week or so. nasty cut....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:04 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Thanks Cracker Larry!

Sitandfish - good point.

So I was at my dad's this weekend. We put a new edge on the low angle block plane my buddy and I are using to build the Orca 21. I looked away for one sec and somehow sliced the heck out of the back of my finger!!! Watch those hand planes when the blade is out fellows. Man are they sharp!!!! After all the hours in my wood shop over the years this is my first legitimate injury. It should close up in a week or so. nasty cut....
But you still have all 10 fingers?

The couple guys that I know with 8 say that it improved their golf game.

Do you play golf? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
My golf game could only go up from here. But my fly tying would take a dive.

Fortunately by God's grace I still have all 10. It was the weirdest thing. The blade was on the sharpening stone, which has an arm that holds the blade firm as it rotates. My father turned the machine off and took off the device that holds the blade onto the sharpening station. I simply picked the blade and the clamp that holds it up. I had my Nikon in one had so I could get a pic for my blog. While rotating the blade I sliced it all most all the way to the bone!

But good news! I am caught up on my Tetanus shot. I got a booster last year for a trip to India.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:31 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:My golf game could only go up from here. But my fly tying would take a dive.

Fortunately by God's grace I still have all 10. It was the weirdest thing. The blade was on the sharpening stone, which has an arm that holds the blade firm as it rotates. My father turned the machine off and took off the device that holds the blade onto the sharpening station. I simply picked the blade and the clamp that holds it up. I had my Nikon in one had so I could get a pic for my blog. While rotating the blade I sliced it all most all the way to the bone!

But good news! I am caught up on my Tetanus shot. I got a booster last year for a trip to India.
Both of the boys I am thinking of didn't even skip a beat in their lives when the fingers came off. I knew them before and after. Not sure why he gave us ten but, these guys are shining examples that as long as the spirit of life is still in you... the number of parts you have really doesn't matter. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
A good outlook on life is very important. (hopefully I won't ever lose a finger)

So I need to address a problem and get some feedback.

Two very nice Perko deck fills arrived today. Each one has a 90 degree Groco fitting that will receive the fill hose by the use of AWAB 316 Stainless hose clamps. Here is the problem. I can tell from measuring the tank that there will be a low spot in the fill line as it approaches the tank of about 1/2 inch. I'm not worried about the few ounces of fuel resting in the line because the Graco fitting is quite deep. However, I'm curious to know if it would keep the boat from passing inspection, or if this is even something they will look at.

I really like the fuel tanks I have and don't want to swap them out. Should I drop the tanks into the sole an inch or so, or just install and not look back. I won't have any hatches in the front deck so if I drop them a little in the sole I'm not too worried about water collecting. There will be no exposure to the elements. Dropping them an inch or so would most definitely hold them in place too. I just don't know how fond I am of the extra work.

Casey

P.S. I also received the bow eye and the two stern eyes today along with the Attwood fuel vents.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
I wouldn't worry about it Casey. Nobody is going to inspect it, and it will work just fine like that. If you get too much dip it might make it slow to fill, but 1/2" isn't a problem. Mine dips at least that much and it will take fuel as fast as the pump can pump it.
A good outlook on life is very important. (hopefully I won't ever lose a finger)
Fingers are over rated :wink: I've only got about half of mine, and I get by just fine. We make do with what we have :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry,

That is exactly the answer I was hoping for. I knew you would comment. I was just worried I was going to have to get super custom with the sole.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry, Andrew, Cape Man, SitAndFish and all other boat builders...

I need some schoolin on how this boat drains? I have some kind of idea but I'm not to sure.... :doh:

Parts? Hardware? Thoughts? Concerns? Things to know before glassing the bulkheads and stringers?

When water gets in, where does it go?

Thanks!!

Casey

P.S. I template cut the toe rail for the poling platform this evening. It's coming along nicely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:26 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Cracker Larry, Andrew, Cape Man, SitAndFish and all other boat builders...

I need some schoolin on how this boat drains? I have some kind of idea but I'm not to sure.... :doh:

Parts? Hardware? Thoughts? Concerns? Things to know before glassing the bulkheads and stringers?

When water gets in, where does it go?

Thanks!!

Casey

P.S. I template cut the toe rail for the poling platform this evening. It's coming along nicely.
I hope you are ready for the 10 pages to follow, concerning drains. :D

Well... I'll just give you my take on the cockpit area. I have posted this picture of TJS Redchaser's FS18 build many times.
Image
He routed the sole out a bit and added blocking to the side for thickness. Then later drilled a hole for a standard brass drain. One on each side will drain a tremendous amount of water (speaking from experience). I NEVER like the idea of moving water from a cockpit to a lower area (like a bilge). I always want it to move directly outside. Here is his boat in water. You can see the drain hole right above the water.
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:30 am
by TomW
ff first your going to foam most of the compartments under the sole for flotation using the two part foam. Leaving only the compartment under the motorwell not foamed. This leaves no place for water to get into under the sole. This is after you thourly(sp) coat the interior of the hull with epoxy. After that you lay down the sole and on the PH18 it is designed to be self bailing so you can put in scuppers in the transom so that it drains on plane and at the dock or on the trailer. I don't like scuppers on the side because the first time 3 guys go over there to look at the fish being landed water comes in.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:51 am
by SmokyMountain
Cracker Larry, Andrew, Cape Man, SitAndFish and all other boat builders...

I need some schoolin on how this boat drains? I have some kind of idea but I'm not to sure....

Casey,

I'm wrestling with the same thing. The plans show drains going through the transom from the cockpit. They are self bailing as Tom said. I'm considering installing the drains on the sides too. Tom makes a good point about everybody on one side. However, this is a very stable boat. I was on Muddler's at the 2009 meet.... it didn't move when I walked on the gunnels around the boat. I keep flip flopping on where I'm going to install them..... :help: probably as shown on the plans. I'll use some type of scupper with a check valve flap.

Theoretically, no water should be draining to the bilge on the Phantom unless it comes through the locker hatch above or lockers from the stern deck. (another topic of discussion....gutters 8O ) All of the front deck and cockpit should self drain through the drains mentioned above. Also, as other have said and I'm slowing leaning :D .... don't worry about everything at once the issues will arise as you get to each step....easier said than done... :oops:

One thing that I wish I already done earlier and haven't is cut out the thru hull holes for the thru hull transducer and live well intake. I would do it like Seth on his build; before fiberglassing the outside :oops: . I'll have to go back and skim a 1/16" or so and re-glass...no biggie but extra work.


I'm sure other will have better insight ....
Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:53 am
by Cracker Larry
A boat this size will not self bail at rest with a load in it, no matter if the drains go out the side, or out the back. If 3 people walk to the back, water will come in no matter where they are located. Think about it, water finds it's own level. In either case, the sole is the same height. It won't change anything and you'll need to leave them plugged either way with a load in the boat. The only time I pull my plugs is on the trailer, or when left empty at the dock. Only once have I ever needed to drain the cockpit while in the water, and that was when I pulled the plugs to sink the boat 6 inches, so we could go under a low bridge. Once I cleared the bridge I just put the boat on a half plane and all the water ran out the drains, then I plugged the holes again. I do have another drain in the center of the motorwell bulkhead that drains to a sump with a pump, which I can also plug, and a transom drain in the sump. All my drains are 1 1/4.
I have posted this picture of TJS Redchaser's FS18 build many times.
I like the way TJS recessed the deck. Wish I had thought of that :doh: Huck did the same thing on his TX18, but he made the recess the full width of the boat, like a ditch 8) I've got a pic of it somewhere, wish I had seen it too, before I built mine.
Here is his boat in water. You can see the drain hole right above the water.
The problem is, nobody is in the boat. It won't be above the water once a person climbs aboard.

Image

Image

Image

Drain height with boat empty. It will self bail just fine when empty. Good for leaving it at the dock in a rain storm

Image

Drain height with Mrs. Cracker in boat. It will still self bail.

Image

Once I get in the boat, the drains, and the sole are below waterline. No matter if it drains out the transom, or drains out the side, the sole will still be below waterline and the water will still come in with the drains open :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:07 am
by Cracker Larry
I found the pics of Huck's TX18 cockpit drains. Very cool idea :!: Wish I had thought of it.

Image

Image

Also this drawing in his gallery

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok fellows. What you are saying makes sense.

I like the idea of the drain going out the transom more than the side the side. I also like the "notch" in the sole as well.

You think I could notch the sole and then take that toward the transom? I could notch 3/8 inch and then exit the water through a drain pipe that takes it out toward the transom. This pipe could also pick up any water that collects in any of the stern hatches.

Is a scupper with a check valve needed? I assume I simply use a plug and pull it when necessary. As for the motor well, could I eliminate it altogether by purchasing a jack plate? Jack plates.... there is another topic of conversation!

Thanks for all the education!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:36 am
by Cracker Larry
You think I could notch the sole and then take that toward the transom? I could notch 3/8 inch and then exit the water through a drain pipe that takes it out toward the transom.
No reason why not, that's not a bad idea. In a small boat, side drains or transom drains is just a matter of preference and ease of install. Neither one will work better than the other.
Is a scupper with a check valve needed? I assume I simply use a plug and pull it when necessary.
I've never seen a scupper or flap valve that will actually make a tight seal. If the drain goes below the water, which it will, water will come in. On a larger boat with the sole always above the waterline, that's the way to go. But on a small boat I'd stick with standard plugs, or you're going to have wet feet.
As for the motor well, could I eliminate it altogether by purchasing a jack plate?
No, not really unless it has a lot of set back. You have to have space for the engine to tilt.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:40 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:...Is a scupper with a check valve needed? I assume I simply use a plug and pull it when necessary....Casey
You are right. No matter where you eventually drain the water, out the back or out the side, you will have to keep a plug in the drain. And that is not a bad thing. As Larry said, you will likely only have to pull the plug when she is back on the trailer.

Here is the problem. The further aft that you put the drain the the lower it will be. All (with few exceptions) boats are lower at the motor. A drain through the transom means it is more likely to be at or below water level.

I'm not a big fan of running a tube from the cockpit to the transom when you can simply go directly out the side. I have drain lines on one boat from my cockpit and worry about breaks and they are ALWAYS filling up with sludge (mud and minnows and that green slime stuff that comes up with the anchor). :wink:

At least you have some choices.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm not a big fan of running a tube from the cockpit to the transom when you can simply go directly out the side.
My feelings too Mark. Why complicate things by running drains through the motorwell bulkheads, and having them interfere with bait tanks and battery compartments which would normally be in those lockers. If there was any gain, it may be worth it, but ultimately you are getting the exact same drainage by going out the side, with a lot less complications.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm tracking...

So how exactly does the drain plug work there. Is the plug put in from the inside? The outside? Do the wings of the plug hang outside of the hull or is it inside where it may bet caught on fly line or a shoe etc...

Maybe I'm not to sure what plug options are out there.

Do I still need a sump for the motor well or does it also sit above the water line?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
My plugs go in from the inside. They are toggle type plugs and I toggle them up and back. Never had a shoe or fishing line caught on them. Tried to find a good pic, this is the best I can come up with right now. Look just below the left eye of the Cobia my son is releasing...

Image
Do I still need a sump for the motor well or does it also sit above the water line?
I like a sump for a couple of reasons. My entire hull is foam filled except for the sump, which is below water line. Basically the sole level is the water line. There is no open bilge area under the sole. The sump catches any nuisance water and can be pumped out, or drained through the transom drain. It also gives the only access to the outer hull, which is needed for bait well water pick up and fish finder transducer mounting. See my sump pic posted earlier.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:39 pm
by steve292
I put my drains thro' the transom, & whilst they work fine I wish I'd saved myself the hassle & gone out the side. The drain tubes take up lots of room in the stern lockers & were a pain in the ass to fit, plus they are a hassle to clear if they block with leaves(30mm tubes). FWIW I have flapper valves but still plug the inside of the tubes.
Steve

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
The drain tubes take up lots of room in the stern lockers & were a pain in the ass to fit, plus they are a hassle to clear if they block with leaves(30mm tubes). FWIW I have flapper valves but still plug the inside of the tubes.
Steve
Yep, our point exactly :wink: Thanks Steve.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So do I still use those nice stainless drain scuppers? I can't tell if these other boats have them or not.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, just use a standard brass drain tube and flare it in place, like these. Go with the 1 1/4", not the 1".

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:41 pm
by sitandfish
I ended up going out today and luckily had the camera. Here is what I have been talking about.
Image
This was after a few hours of fishing. We put the boat in and threw the cast net a dozen times and got the boat a bit dirty but, not dirty or wet enough to need to pull the plugs out and drain any water or slime.

Fished and enjoyed (many) a couple beverages and put the boat back on the trailer without ever taking the plugs out. Washed the boat and pulled the plugs to let the soapy water out. Simple brass drains that run out each side with simple drain plugs. $12.00 worth of hardware. :wink:

Fishing report: caught trout, flounder, red fish, and blue fish. Only had a couple hours to fish. It's Wednesday. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:51 pm
by sitandfish
Here is a closer look at the starboard plug.
Image
You can see that the shallow trough only runs over several inches. After 12 years of fishing out of this boat I can tell you that we never pick up more water than can be held in these little pockets. I worry that if the trough is cut all the way across then it will just get filled up with dirt and slime. Just my 2 cents (times 12 years). :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. Cool. All this makes sense.

Do they make this in a stainless steel? This will keep the look and feel of the hardware consistent. :D

P.S. Here is another boat I'm working on with my buddy. It's his Orca 21.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24393

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:07 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Ok. Cool. All this makes sense.

Do they make this in a stainless steel? This will keep the look and feel of the hardware consistent. :D

P.S. Here is another boat I'm working on with my buddy. It's his Orca 21.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24393
Yes.. they definitely make them in stainless. Drain and plugs. So instead of $12.00 you will spend $24.00. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:15 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Ok. Cool. All this makes sense.

Do they make this in a stainless steel? This will keep the look and feel of the hardware consistent. :D

P.S. Here is another boat I'm working on with my buddy. It's his Orca 21.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24393
Those are my favorite boats... the Phantom and the Orca.


Ummm and the Pangas.


Oh,


and the Sprots Boats. Well.. the Sports boat and the V12's.


And I love the CV's!


But, I really like the C19's! :wink:

Hard to mention how much I like the C19's without mentioning the CS25!!!! Man that's a great boat.


Ohhhhhh man, did I mention the Abaco23!?!?!?

I love the Abaco23.

Now if you want to talk about a beautiful boat... it's the LB26...

I'll shut up now...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sitandfish,

Great reply! Very funny. As I read the list of boats I thought what about the LB26 and you mentioned it! Nice boat.

Excellent point with the trough. I'll keep them small.

I'll do some looking for the stainless steel drain pipe with a flange. If you come across one surfing the web let me know.

Thanks for all your input and help. I am very appreciative toward all those that chime in and offer assistance.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:13 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Sitandfish,

Great reply! Very funny. As I read the list of boats I thought what about the LB26 and you mentioned it! Nice boat.

Excellent point with the trough. I'll keep them small.

I'll do some looking for the stainless steel drain pipe with a flange. If you come across one surfing the web let me know.

Thanks for all your input and help. I am very appreciative toward all those that chime in and offer assistance.
You will NEVER see the stainless drain. Just use brass. But buy a stainless plug. That is all you will see. Jamestown Distributors Dot Com. Of I can send you one that is laying out in my garage. I saw it on the floor today. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
"NEVER" huh? That's weird. Hmmm. I wonder why they make so many things in stainless but they don't make that?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Would this work?

The Moeller flanging tool works on brass and aluminum pipe. I could maybe make my own. Would aluminum work for a drain tube if being used in the salt? The will primarily be used in fresh water though.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ging+Tools

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:11 am
by gstanfield
Since you are flaring it the brass will be a lot easier to work than the stainless. You might could look around enough and find a piece of stainless tube the right size, but why fight the extra work trying to flare it without it splitting on you when the brass just plain works better. PLus with the plug in plce you cannot see the drain tube so what does it matter if it is brass or stainless :D Aluminum would work if you're dead set against brass :wink:

I'm not saying that stainless cannot be worked, I've done a lot of stainless fuel and brake lines on cars, but I've also wasted a lot due to it splitting when trying to flare it, even when using the right tool. :x

George

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:13 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:"NEVER" huh? That's weird. Hmmm. I wonder why they make so many things in stainless but they don't make that?
Oops. What I meant by never was..

Because the drain plug is black rubber and it covers the drain hole you will never "SEE" it. You can't see the drain because the plug is alway in the way. Look at the picture I posted and you should see what I mean. Just put in the brass drain sleeve and use either aluminum or stainless drain plugs. Stainless are nice but... it's just a plug. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:15 am
by sitandfish
Thanks, George. You type faster than me. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:23 am
by sitandfish
sitandfish wrote:
flyfish2743 wrote:"NEVER" huh? That's weird. Hmmm. I wonder why they make so many things in stainless but they don't make that?
Oops. What I meant by never was..

Because the drain plug is black rubber and it covers the drain hole you will never "SEE" it. You can't see the drain because the plug is alway in the way. Look at the picture I posted and you should see what I mean. Just put in the brass drain sleeve and use either aluminum or stainless drain plugs. Stainless are nice but... it's just a plug. :doh:
Here is a beautiful stainless drain plug.
Image I promise that the aluminum ones are pretty too. :wink:
I like the ones that fold over and they are easy to find in aluminum
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
So maybe I'm confused. Does the flare go to the outside or the inside on these brass tubes? It looks like only one end is flared.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:59 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:So maybe I'm confused. Does the flare go to the outside or the inside on these brass tubes? It looks like only one end is flared.
No confusion. The answer is both. When you buy them, one end is flared and once you slide it into the hole you flare it out on the other end to make both ends flared.

C Larry has the tool and will lend it to you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:03 am
by gstanfield
If both ends were flared it would be kinda hard to install, that's why you have to flare the other end after it's installed :wink: :D

George

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. That makes sense. I assumed they had to be flared but when I saw the statements that you did not see it when the plug was in I second guessed my assumption that maybe the outside is not flared. Because it seems that even the flared end will still be seen with the plug. Sounds like the brass will work fine then.

So here is a new Q for you.

I'm leaning toward the Evinrude 90. However the 90 is lacking in the electronics area and will not communicate with the I - Command gauges when relaying trim setting. It will require a dedicated trim gauge. However, the 115 HP will.

There is a 70lb difference in weight. I'm OK with either. Evinrude suggests jumping up to the 115 and going with the Rogue prop claiming that the hole shot with the added power is worth the trade off in weight. What are your thoughts?

I do have a concern for draft. I will have no hatches in the front, helping to save on weight. The fuel tanks will be in the front, then the ice chest, batteries in the console, no bait or live well. I'm trying to distribute the weight as best I can. I hope to have the Trim and Troll motors as well.

What additional increase in draft do you think I will get by jumping up the 70lbs to the 115hp? I know the answer is that the extra power is not needed, but I'm curious nontheless.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:19 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Ok. That makes sense. I assumed they had to be flared but when I saw the statements that you did not see it when the plug was in I second guessed my assumption that maybe the outside is not flared. Because it seems that even the flared end will still be seen with the plug. Sounds like the brass will work fine then.

So here is a new Q for you.

I'm leaning toward the Evinrude 90. However the 90 is lacking in the electronics area and will not communicate with the I - Command gauges when relaying trim setting. It will require a dedicated trim gauge. However, the 115 HP will.

There is a 70lb difference in weight. I'm OK with either. Evinrude suggests jumping up to the 115 and going with the Rogue prop claiming that the hole shot with the added power is worth the trade off in weight. What are your thoughts?

I do have a concern for draft. I will have no hatches in the front, helping to save on weight. The fuel tanks will be in the front, then the ice chest, batteries in the console, no bait or live well. I'm trying to distribute the weight as best I can. I hope to have the Trim and Troll motors as well.

What additional increase in draft do you think I will get by jumping up the 70lbs to the 115hp? I know the answer is that the extra power is not needed, but I'm curious nontheless.
That 16' production boat I posted a picture of has a 70hp. If it had a 115 it would sit like a rocket ship. Nose straight up. I'll leave my comments there and let the others talk about the newest features of props and motors. My stuff is all tired and rusted... including me. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:59 am
by SmokyMountain
Casey,
I love your questions (seriously) and this topic. I've been considering the exact same things but have not posted. :oops: Keep them coming.

After reading through the thread this past day, it looks like side cockpit drains are the way to go. Simple effective The transom starts to get busy with all the holes / appurtenances ..... I'm strongly considering the 90 / 115 etec also or may be the Yammie F-series 90. ... :help: with a hydraulic jack plate.

Are you considering a power pole or stake out stick with a bracket?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well, the weight difference between the 90 and 115 is 70lbs… about 10 more pounds larger than a blue top marine trolling battery. I would love it if someone could stand on the back of their PH 18 with a 90HP and let us know how much that sucker will go down in the stern with an extra 70 lbs… now that would be nice! I'm leaning toward the 90hp.

As for the power pole. I like those a lot. However, simply using the push pole on the boat for jamming down into the sand/mud seems like the most reasonable option. I’ll already have the pole, no extra weight and that sucker can be stuck deeper than a power pole.

Every guide I fished with, from the Yucatan to Belize and from the Keys to the Bahamas, used their push pole with a simple rope to tie off with. And it’s one less thing to purchase and maintain. With all that said… I may end up getting one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fiberglass question. I understand that fiberglass needs a rounded edge to lay over an angle properly. I'm working on the toe rail for my platform and was curious to know what to route it to on the inside of the edge. The outer edge will have a larger 1/2 inch round over but the inner edge will need something smaller. I tried a 3/16 and then glued up a mock up piece and filleted the edge. It at appears as if the fiberglass will transition nicely over the platform and up and over the toe rail. See pic. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... fullsize=1

Will 3/16 round over work?

Update on drain pipe: I heard back from the distributor and they have a 1 inch aluminum drain pipe that they say will work fine. This will give me my "stainless" look and feel. However, I know its been recommended to use 1 1/4 but I imagine the difference will be ok. I'll toss an extra plug in addition to the two in the boat just to be safe.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
I heard back from the distributor and they have a 1 inch aluminum drain pipe that they say will work fine. This will give me my "stainless" look and feel.
Don't do it :wink: It will only look good for a couple months, then it will pit all up and corrode. Use the brass tubes, they'll last forever, and use 1 1/4". There is a huge difference in the amount of water it will drain, like twice as much. Get over the stainless look :lol: Stick with what is tried and proven to work. Have you ever in your life seen a boat with aluminum drain tubes? No. There is a good reason for that :wink: Trust us :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry,

I'm so glad you speak your mind. You remind me of my father. I love it. I'm gonna start calling you Father Larry. :D

I guess I will have to go with the brass then. Did you see my toe rail pic? Do you think that will work with the fiberglass?

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. I just picked up 6 36 inch Jorgenson clamps. Hopefully I now have enough clamps. This gives me a total of 26 clamps in various sizes. I also picked up a nice 1/2 round over router bit. The shop is falling into place.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Cracker Larry,

I'm so glad you speak your mind.
You can count on that my friend :wink:
I'm gonna start calling you Father Larry. :D
Please don't, lightning may strike :lol:
Hopefully I now have enough clamps.
Are you sure?

Image
Did you see my toe rail pic? Do you think that will work with the fiberglass?
I'm sorry, I missed it. Can you give me a link?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry,

Yikes! Maybe I don't have enough..... ahhhh man. Another trip to Home Depot.

Here is the pic. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 1227&pos=0

Thanks!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yikes! Maybe I don't have enough..... ahhhh man. Another trip to Home Depot.
You can use drywall screws to temporarily hold things together too :wink:

I'll need to find the context that goes with this pic, stand by

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Dry wall screws. Check.

We have been using them to screw panels together that are a mirror image of one another to run through the band saw.

In that pic is a toe rail that will run around the poling platform. Here is my blog with the post about the platform. http://caseysboat.blogspot.com/search/l ... 27s%20Boat

I'm working on a 1 inch wide toe rail that runs around the top. Actually it will be a little little less than one inch when both sides of the toe rail are rounded over.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
Very nice Casey, I don't see a thing wrong with that 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Most excellent!

I will proceed and post up a pic of the final product.

Thank you for the help.

Casey.

P.S. I was standing by the band saw holding my iPhone waiting for your reply. I'm firing up the blade right now!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Watch the fingers. Of all my tools, I love my band saw the best 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
The toe rail came out very nice and I still have all my fingers.

I plan to put the inside 3/16 inch edge on tonight and maybe even get it glued to the platform. Next will come the wood under the platform that goes all the way around. I don't know what to call it. Its like the reverse of an inwale and installs around the perimeter directly below the toe rail.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:28 pm
by tech_support
light woven, 4 or 6 oz will take that bend. Unfortunately, though, it will need some splits to take the turn of the toe rail. Nice wood work by the way :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Shine!

I'm using the platform as a testing ground for the epoxy and fiberglass. This and my buddy's new Orca 21 were cutting out. I understand he is going to order your epoxy kit for that boat. Both of theses smaller projects will help me get a feel for working with this stuff.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:14 pm
by cottontop
Casey, Your thoughts and skill really show in your craftsmanship. Beautiful work. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you John!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I found that if i run home for lunch I can squeeze in a little work over the lunch hour. Sweet!

I routed the inside edge of the toe rail. It worked out well.

My wife, Summer, reminded me of some bookshelves I need to finish! Doesn't she know that there are fish to catch!?!?!?!?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Crackery Larry - you were right. I need more clamps. I used 28, every woodworking and "C" clamp I own, just on the toe rail for the poling platform.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, I've done this before :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am currently considering the following. Any thoughts? Suggestions? Concerns?

Evinrude 90 HP. http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Engines/E ... _90_INLINE

I Command Gauges - http://www.evinrude.com/BRPHtml/Evinrud ... /index.htm

Rogue Prop - http://shop.evinrude.com/products/83714/Rogue

Teleflex Control - http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... 0-control/

Teleflex Hydraulic Steering System - http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... board-pro/

Teleflex Helm (Or something similar from Teleflex) http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... -steering/

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:46 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:I am currently considering the following. Any thoughts? Suggestions? Concerns?

Evinrude 90 HP. http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Engines/E ... _90_INLINE

I Command Gauges - http://www.evinrude.com/BRPHtml/Evinrud ... /index.htm

Rogue Prop - http://shop.evinrude.com/products/83714/Rogue

Teleflex Control - http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... 0-control/

Teleflex Hydraulic Steering System - http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... board-pro/

Teleflex Helm (Or something similar from Teleflex) http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... -steering/
What is your console going to look like? Exactly based on the Bateau design. Sorry if I missed this in earlier discussions? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Controls and steering are great choices, but I like Yamahas :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry,

I'm leaning toward American. I never really cared about the American vs foreign thing until I was permit fishing with a guide a few months back. He said with such conviction he only purchased American. It actually made me consider my purchase. So I gave Evinrude a look. Does Yamaha make a two stroke? Why do you prefer the Yammy?

Sitandfish,

My father and I are working up some plans. I'll send them to you when we're done.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
Why do you prefer the Yammy?
Because they are the best outboards in the world.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:13 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Cracker Larry,

I'm leaning toward American. I never really cared about the American vs foreign thing until I was permit fishing with a guide a few months back. He said with such conviction he only purchased American. It actually made me consider my purchase. So I gave Evinrude a look. Does Yamaha make a two stroke? Why do you prefer the Yammy?

Sitandfish,

My father and I are working up some plans. I'll send them to you when we're done.
Understood. Yami is the best boat motor. Fortunately, there are a few other good motors but... Yami is the best.

Just go around to the honest boat mechanics and ask them what they think. :wink:

My argument is that if America wants to build the best boat motor... they can. Yami builds the best right now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:16 am
by Cracker Larry
Just go around to the honest boat mechanics and ask them what they think.
Or ask any commercial fisherman who makes their living with outboards. 95 out of 100 run Yamaha.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Which Yamaha would you suggest? What makes them better?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yammy just lost 5 points for a lame home page. It's not viewable in my iPhone browser.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:04 am
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Yammy just lost 5 points for a lame home page. It's not viewable in my iPhone browser.
To bad iPhone isn't made my Yamaha. If it was, then it would work. :wink:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/pr ... /home.aspx


Just kidding. Apple has always been one of the best American products. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
I enjoyed that reply. That was funny.

Cracker Larry and SitandFish, I will have to give the Yamaha some consideration.

Here is a new question for you guys. Ice chests.

I'm leaning toward the Yeti with the aluminum bracket. I'll put it right in front of the center console.

Yeti - http://store.yeticoolers.com/products/Y ... kets.html/

But I also found this Ice Chest too.

Frigid Ridged. http://www.frigidrigid.com/chests/chests.htm

Any others for consideration? Do you have any favorites?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, I use Igloo. I'm sure the Yetis are a fine, FINE! cooler, but the fish we catch require at least 100-150 quart size. We usually carry 3 -150 qt. coolers offshore, and at least a 100 qt. inshore. The 155 Yetis go for about $550 each 8O and those aluminum brackets are another $250 8O. If your pockets are that deep, you probably can't find a better cooler, but mine aren't that deep and an Igloo keeps my fish cold just fine :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry,

If I had that many coolers I would be leaning toward the Igloo as well. That's a lot of coolers!!!!

This cooler will only be used for food and cold drinks. I never keep any of the fish. Crazy I know!!!! I just always let them go. Not that I don't like keeping fish. I do, I just like watching them swim away to be caught another day. As for trips where I keep the fish I've always hired a guide and he has all the right stuff for storing the catch.

As for the expenditures on some of these parts, like the Yeti, my mother and father are helping out. You gotta meet them someday. They are the most generous people I know. They sent me this letter the other day with some money and it said the following.

Casey,

Dad and I get blessings watching you spend some of your inheritance now - then after we die. Better now than then, right :) its more fun we say. :) Baby is coming - build build build!!

Mom and Dad
(The smiley faces were hers)

As you can see in this letter, we're having another little one so I hope to finish the boat before child number 2 comes along.

Dad only buys the finest, so when I researched the coolers and showed him the Yeti he said, "You gotta pick that up. And to make it easy just add in the aluminum brackets."

So that gives you a little back story.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Very cool, Casey 8) If I were you, I'd buy the Yeti :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Then I'll lean towards the Yeti. It looks like fine cooler.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OK Cracker Larry - Here is a question about Jack Plates and the Teleflex Control. Can the Teleflex control that has both trim and tilt switches be rigged to tilt the motor with on one switch and the trim for a Jack Plate on the other?

Here is the model I'm thinking of specifically. This has the trim switch, the tilt switch and the neutral lock.

Teleflex, RH Top Mount Control (Lever on the left) Black Handle w/ Chrome Body and Chrome Insert. Tilt, Trim, Neutral. CH7500-210110

http://www.chmarine.com/acatalog/Data_Sheet_7500.pdf

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:11 pm
by Cracker Larry
You sure can. That's the same control head I have, it's a very good unit. I've got an unused switch I'll hook to something one day, that would be a good use for it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Awesome. I think that is the control I will get.

So I'm out of the country two weeks in Sept, mission field in India, and when I get back I hope to make my purchase for the fiberglass and epoxy from Joel (Lord Willing). In addition to the fiberglass for the sides of the boat, what should I order?

Does the fiberglass schedule have glass on the cockpit floor? The deck? If not, I really would like to glass these surfaces. I think I've read some people double up the hull's bottom with graphite. Did I read this right? Should I do the same?

I also really like the the Kwik Grip and would like to use it on all surfaces I stand on including the poling platform. Thoughts? Concerns?

Do the fiberglass/epoxy kits from Bateau come with any application tools for applying the epoxy? I assume they don't. What should I get? Any favorite tools you would suggest above and beyond the basics? All I have so far are a few black plastic sticks and a spreader from West System.

I would like to do the skeg and the strakes like SmokeyMountain's boat. What should I order extra to accomplish this? Those look great.

Thanks guys for all your helpful feedback.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:54 pm
by SmokyMountain
Does the fiberglass schedule have glass on the cockpit floor? The deck? If not, I really would like to glass these surfaces.


Yes, I believe it does. I'll be putting the 12oz on the cockpit floor and the lighter on the decks and cover with the kwickgrip.
I like the kwickgrip ... you can control with the texture with the nap of the roller .. 8)

Do the fiberglass/epoxy kits from Bateau come with any application tools for applying the epoxy? I assume they don't. What should I get? Any favorite tools you would suggest above and beyond the basics? All I have so far are a few black plastic sticks and a spreader from West System.
No application tools included. I get as many paint sticks as I can every time I go to Lowe's / Homedepot :D Get some spreaders and some chip brushes... I like spreader over rollers because you get a good lean glass job without as much epoxy waste...

Oh, if you don't make your own fillet go ahead and order the 1.5 gallon EZ fillet kit.
I would like to do the skeg and the strakes like SmokeyMountain's boat. What should I order extra to accomplish this? Those look great.

As you go along each step of the build things fall into place ... thinking of it all seems a bit overwhelming ..one step at a time :D


Thanks... that was Joel's idea from his FS17... You will need to order some chopped fiberglass, milled fiberglass, and silica. (Joel had his formula somewhere on his build page.) When I make a slurry / fillets, I use System III general epoxy.. its supposed to better for that stuff and costs a little less... so go ahead and get a gallon kit of that too.... 8O

When you get your kit ...bateau has a lot of the ancillary stuff too. Have a safe trip and take some good pics!!

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you Andrew for this reply. Very helpful!

I'm considering ordering the push pole kit at the same time as I order the epoxy kit. Any suggestions as to the length? My poling platform is 48 inches tall and of course is going on the PH 18,hence the name of the thread.

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. I have completed my install of 14 48" florescent lights in the garage. That place lights up like an operating room and the vac system will suck up the table saw and any other thing that gets in its way. Now all I need to get is a large air filter from my father's shop. He's gonna loan me his for the build. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:12 am
by gstanfield
As to tools, I really like the west brand rollers for rolling on epoxy, saves a ton over trying to use brushes. there are other folks who prefer other brands of roller and I've used others with god enough results, but I like the super short "nap" of the west ones best. I also like the west spreaders with the differnt size notches for spreading mixed epoxy when bonding two pieces of wood with woodlfour mix.

That and I bought some small 2" wide rollers (I think Corona brand) that are awsome for applying small amounts of epoxy or working in small areas like gunnel tops and inside compartments. Those I found local, everything else I buy from bateau.

Oh yeah, mixing cups. Lots and lots of mixing cups. I use them and toss them aside and once a week go through and flex them a bit and pop out the epoxy resin that was left over inside so I can reuse them. :D

George

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Nice. Then I will try to grab all this stuff too when I make my Bateau purchase.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Since I don't bait fish I assume I'll never need a bait well. If I do I can grab a portable one. However, I'm interested in putting in a live well under the bench seat for the occasional tournament. I don't really want to install all the stuff for it but want to put in what is necessary now, in case I decide to use the space for a live well in the future. Is this possible?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:13 pm
by TomW
Sure the main thing you'll need to run is the plumbing from it back to the area under the motorwell where you would install the pump. That is the one thing you could not do later. Think it through and decide where the plumbing would come up and then install it so it is inconspicuous in that area.

If you do ever decide to use it you can then connect a pump to it in the motorwell, run a wire, and connect an aerator to the pipe in the seat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:20 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:Since I don't bait fish I assume I'll never need a bait well. If I do I can grab a portable one. However, I'm interested in putting in a live well under the bench seat for the occasional tournament. I don't really want to install all the stuff for it but want to put in what is necessary now, in case I decide to use the space for a live well in the future. Is this possible?
The livewell and baitwell can be used for the same purpose if the species of fish you plan to keep alive are not so big. It is great to build your own custom boat, built 100% to your needs. Just remember that it is rare that a boat is built and not eventually turned over to someone else's purpose.

"Grabbing a portable one" on a boat like a PH18 is probably not a reasonable solution to most people. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Just remember that it is rare that a boat is built and not eventually turned over to someone else's purpose.
Excellent point, and just what I was thinking. Almost anyone buying a boat like that would expect live wells. Or, your needs and interests may change in the future. Never say never. You might even meet us at Boca Grande for a builders meet, and wish like heck you had a good bait well. Anything like that is a LOT easier to install now than later.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:00 pm
by sitandfish
Cracker Larry wrote:
Just remember that it is rare that a boat is built and not eventually turned over to someone else's purpose.
Excellent point, and just what I was thinking. Almost anyone buying a boat like that would expect live wells. Or, your needs and interests may change in the future. Never say never. You might even meet us at Boca Grande for a builders meet, and wish like heck you had a good bait well. Anything like that is a LOT easier to install now than later.
Yep. I was kind of thinking that something that is built-in can be used for a different purpose but... something that ain't there can be used for NO purpose. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:29 pm
by gstanfield
I'm not a bait fisher either 99.9% of the time. On my old production boat from several years ago I used the bait wells as ice chests to hold my Mt Dew (was under 21 at the time) It was pretty handy since I could easily drain it when the ice was melted and all I had to do was drop a case of Mt Dew and a bag of ice in it on the way to the lake, no work, no fuss :D :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:47 pm
by sitandfish
gstanfield wrote:I'm not a bait fisher either 99.9% of the time. On my old production boat from several years ago I used the bait wells as ice chests to hold my Mt Dew (was under 21 at the time) It was pretty handy since I could easily drain it when the ice was melted and all I had to do was drop a case of Mt Dew and a bag of ice in it on the way to the lake, no work, no fuss :D :D
You moved from Mt. Dew to Jameson? Never heard of such a thing? We'll, this would take a whole new thread to explain! We should probably leave flyfish's thread alone with this one. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Great feedback everybody. So how about this as a solution.

I install two hatches under the bench seat with say a 70/30 split. 30% can be allocated for a bait well and the other 70% can be allocated to the live well. I run two drains, two fill lines, and two sets of wires for the aerators. Voila, they're there if I need them!

So CL, can you explain what each pump is doing for me?

Image

And this? Is it to aerate/circulate the well?

Image

How do you get water into your bait well and live well? Exactly where is it coming from?

Thanks for all the help!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:35 am
by gstanfield
You moved from Mt. Dew to Jameson
I now have a mortgage and children, I didn't back then :D
Exactly where is it coming from
Under the boat :wink:

I'll let Cl explain his setup, but I think you're seeing a bilge pump and a livewell pump that gets water from a through hull fitting and pumps it to the livewell.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I think that is what's happening too. We'll see what he can teach us.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:15 am
by Cracker Larry
The large pump is the bilge pump, a Rule 2000. The small 500 pump is the bait well pump. It's connected to a sea cock and a through hull fitting. It pumps water from outside the boat into the bait well through that spray bar. It doesn't recirculate, it's a continuous flow of fresh water.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:25 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I called Minn Kota today and got the installation manual for the trim and troll. Figured you would want a copy. Uploaded to bateau, click the link to review and download. I need to go ahead and see what wiring was required, so I can configure my chase tubes in the near future.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... sions1.pdf

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Andrew!

I wonder which trim tab to go with, the stainless steel option or the composite option? I assume the composite. I would sacrifice a little strength to save a little weigh.

Cracker Larry,

Can a person use just one sump pump to pump water from the bilge as well as fill the live well and the bait well? Here's my thought. When I want water for the bait and live wells I simply pull the plug on the bilge, let water flow in and pump it into the wells by the turn of a valve. When they are topped off I turn the valve back to its normal setting and pump the bilge dry. I did a lot of plumbing work over the years and see how this could easily be accomplished with the use of a few valves.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:08 am
by TomW
Casey no, you need a continuos flow of water into the baitwell and livewell. You can't just fill them and let them sit. That is the reason for Larry's two pumps, two different purposes. One continuos running to the baitwell, one for pumping out water if needed. The total cost for pump, valve and scoop will be less than $100 dollars and give you the proper setup for your livewell and baitwell. An 1100 gph pump should give you more than enough capacity to split off and provide water to both the bait and livewell sections of your setup.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Understood. Thank you Tom. I'll start looking at some pumps. If you have a fav please let me know.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:00 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, what Tom said 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Do I need trim tabs on this boat?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:34 am
by Doc_Dyer
SmokyMountain is putting tabs on because of the troll-n-trim setup

this eliminates everything on the front deck for flyfishing

Bradley

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
That is the same type I hope to end up with. I'm just curious to know if it is a "must have" for the performance of the boat.

If they're not put on does it result in a considerable loss of performance?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
does it result in a considerable loss of performance?
Not a "must have", but they would be a considerable improvement. Any planing boat of substance will benefit from trim tabs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:25 pm
by TomW
Casey can't go wrong with the Rule bait pumps, or Rule bilge pumps over 1500gph I don't like Rule bilge pumps under that size.

Casey here is the cheapest prices I have found on bilge pumps: http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/ ... age_1.html

You can even get the 2000gph for less than $90 not seen anywhere else.

As far as bait well pumps you can't do better than here they have all the accesories and a lot of advice:

http://www.livebaitlarry.com/index.php

One thing you'll want to do when your planning your baitwell and livewell is an area for the plumbing and control valves.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks CL and Tom


This info is from an email I had with Joel Shine.

I am planning on purchasing the PH18 Silvertip epoxy kit, assuming no
unforseen circumstances pop up, after I arrive back from an overseas
trip on the 25th of September. Before I place the order I want to see
what other items you suggest.Here is the list I have compiled so far.

1. Phantom 18 - Silvertip Epoxy Kit. Please note, I am lengthing the
very tip of the bow just a bit. I will need about 16 more inches of
glass. There may already be enough in what is supplied.

Joel, "Maybe, it depends how you glass the inside, but there will plenty to make continuous lengths on the outside. You may get a little more for the inside"

2. Extra fiberglass to fully cover the sides, deck, sole and center
console, if not already included. I understand a lot is included but
thought I would ask just to be safe.

Joel, "Check the plans, but the biax cloth may not wrap all the way to the sheer. If its does not, and you want to cover it with glass, you can just get an extra length of 12 oz 50" and cut it down the middle to give (2) 25" strips to cover each side. To cover the sole and decks, I would use 6 oz"

3. 1 extra sheet of fiberglass for my poling platform. It has 1/2 inch
and 3/16 inch rounded edges. The dimensions are approximately 41 X 30
and it has a 2 inch lip that hangs down around the platform.

Joel, "I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you wanting to stiffen up and old fiberglass poling platform? If so, please start another thread on the subject. just adding glass may not be the best thing to do"

4. 2 gallons of expandable foam.

Joel' "You will need 4 gallons, but you dont have to get that until later"

5. Graphite for the bottom of the hull. I don't fully understand this
part but read a little about it. I guess it is more resistant to
abrasion. Can you explain it for me?

Joel, "Its a subject that been beaten around a few times. I will do a search"

6. Epoxy and fiberglass mix for the skeg and strakes as a substitute for
wood, similar to what Sitandfish did. I read on his thread you had made
up some concoction that worked well for this.

Joel, "I used milled fibers and some chopped glass to make mine. I cover it in my FS17 building tutorial...."

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16831

http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=13


7. The necessary rollers and applicators, spreaders, brushes etc. I hear
some people really like the West System rollers? I already have mixing
sticks and cups to mix in but no rollers or brushes. I have one spreader
from West System. Is it cheaper for me to get brushes locally?

Joel, "For most every application I use the 7" west system rollers...."


http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... _cov_7in_2

8. 5200 Marine Adhesive Sealant from 3M (enough for a 1.25 inch Taco
rub-rail).

Joel, "probably 2-3 tubes, then some more for your thru-hulls/hatches/hardware etc."

9. Carbon Fiber Push Pole Kit. What length do you suggest for this boat?

Joel, "Depends how deep you fish, but 18' is normally plenty"


10. Anything else you can think of that will be necessary for the first
stage of this boat.

Joel, "nothing more for the first stage, you really only need the epoxy glass and wood right now. Primer, paint, hardware, poling platforms, rubrail, etc.. are down the line a little ways"

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:56 pm
by SmokyMountain
Do I need trim tabs on this boat?
Like Bradley said and I want a good hole shot in shallow water.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
6. Epoxy and fiberglass mix for the skeg and strakes as a substitute for
wood, imilar to what Sitandfish did. I read on his thread you had made
up some concauction that worked well for this.

Joel, "I used milled fibers and some chopped glass to make mine. I cover it in my FS17 building tutorial...."
I just made a 36" replacement strake for a boat I'm repairing. I used a 2" aluminum angle, covered in packing tape for a mold, blocked the ends with tape covered cardboard. Used some wedges to slant it to make the angle I needed. Chopped glass and wood flour for the filler. It came out perfect :D

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:54 pm
by TomW
That looks nice Larry. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Very cool.

Is there a lot of scrap left over after trimming the cloth from the lamination that can be used for this? Or is the blend of fiberglass fibers something I need to pick up?

Fuel line question. I will have two fuel tanks. What kind of valve should I use for determining which tank the motor pulls from?

Here is one I found. It's made by Golan and looks tough. Is this any good? Do you have a favorite? I don't know anything about this stuff.

Image


Update: Poling platform coming along nicely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:56 am
by TomW
That's a mean looking valve Casey, I'm used to the bronze ones like this Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been looking at that one too. This one just looks so beefy! How does that brass one mount exactely?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:29 pm
by TomW
I've just made my own bracket near the fuel tank. I do like the one you found as it's labeled and there won't be any mistake on what is going on. It can also function as the shut off valve as you need one of those near the fuel tank. If I had my choice I would go with it. Can you give me the website for it so I can take a look at it more. Thanks! 8)

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom - you bet. http://www.golanproducts.com/fuel_valves.html

CL. Is this what I need for the live and bait well?
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... +Fittings#

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:29 pm
by TomW
No Casey this is what you need it provides some straining of large debris before pushing water up the inlet. http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/S ... AINER.html Perko also makes one and it is for sale at the same site.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
CL. Is this what I need for the live and bait well?
No, I like the one Tom suggested. His link is a couple dollars cheaper than mine too 8) but I like Hamilton Marine. I like Jamestown also, but I didn't find this product on their website. You can count on quality products from either of them.

Image

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... ,2242.html

Not only does it strain sandwich bags and weeds, but it scoops water when you are moving and you only have to use your pump when you are sitting still.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. I like that part. Sounds handy.

I have an opportunity to maybe pick up some trim and troll tabs from Minn Kota for about 950 instead of the normal 1750. However, I would need to order the tabs and am not sure what size to get.

They have 9 x 12 and 12 x 12 available. Both will work according to Minn Kota, but the 12 x 12 may be overkill.

Thanks!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
9X12 for a boat your size will be plenty.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks CL!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:08 pm
by SmokyMountain
have an opportunity to maybe pick up some trim and troll tabs from Minn Kota for about 950 instead of the normal 1750.
Pick up two and I'll send you some money!!! :D :D Seriously...

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:00 am
by amyweaver29
Thanks for all your suggestions. That'll get me started.

Regards and God bless.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Anybody familar with the porta jack plate?
http://www.portaproducts.com/

Amy - Welcome to the Forum.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:14 am
by TomW
Okay we are talking about a totally different product than a jackplate. This is a Jack Bracket. This sets the motor back much like a bracket does 17-27" and is not good for your 18' boat. You need to stick to a 4,5,6" Jackplate on your PH18 in order to keep from having to much LCG change on your boat.

Brackets are good for larger boats and with Bateau boats can be used on boats starting at about 21' with changes in weight compensation, before that there is to much change in the LCG to move the motor back that far. Our boats just don't weigh enough to support brackets in the smaller sizes and for that matter neither do most production boats. As far as I know through my research there is only one company in the US offering a bracket on a boat under 20' and it's for there 196CC.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Thanks for the info. I will avoid this for the Phantom.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a few questions concerning health and epoxy.

Is dry epoxy a carcinogenic when breathed in?

Should I be wearing a mask if I am doing light sanding with a finish sander or a sanding block?

I have a nice vac system and try to vac as I sand but can still see it a little in the air.

While mixing epoxy I have been wearing gloves and can smell the epoxy but I am mixing such light batches for my poling platform the smell is not very strong. Should I be wearing a mask while mixing too?

Thanks

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:49 am
by TomW
Casey no epoxy is not carcinogenic and is less hazardous to your health than cutting or sanding wood. But yes always wear a particulate mask nothing in your lungs is good. :D I'd hate to give you all the EPA rules that wood working shops have to adhere to.

No need to wear a mask when mixing the slight smell is not hazarouz and is just the Part B mixing with the Part A. It never hurts to wear a mask but you would need to wear a Fumigant mask, this is the ones with the cans on the sides to keep it out, not just a simple particular filter mask. The mask I have is from when I ran my nursery and can filter everything so I can't even smell bleach through it. A good one is $35-50. But again there is no real need for it. Just use a fan to disperse it if you have a problem with it.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:29 am
by Swamp Skiff
I can't speak to the health hazards of the liquid epoxy. I would(and I will) take Tom's word on that. If you have any questions you can always get the MSDS sheet for any product from the seller or MFG. You can even get one for water believe it of not, it is a chemical. They legally have to supply them on request. Now the dust is definitely not good for you. I am a potter, and that is something that I am keenly aware of and have to deal with. The dust in and of itself is probably pretty inert, but unless the particulates are soluble they can cause serious health issues with long term exposure. Keep in mind that if you use a solvent to thin or clean with that is a game changer. If you do get a respirator, get cartridges that deal with VOCs for solvents in addition to particulate filters. Now I'm not saying if you breath in a little dust you will develop lung related health issues, but this sort of thing is cumulative. A little here, a little there, and not just from boat building well you get the point. Oh, if you can, don't dry sweep dust, you send the really fine stuff that suspends right back into the air. If you can't wet vacuum/mop it, at least use a sweeping compound. If you are building a boat or two over a lifetime you should be just fine, but no sense in risking it. Sort of like pumping gas and getting a nose full of vapors, not that big of a deal, but you wouldn't put some in a bucket and then stick your head in it on a regular basis, right?

Swamp

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Swamp Skiff and TomW - thanks for the feedback.

I keep a pretty clean shop and will try to be more aware of the dust particles. I have two really nice masks for HVLP painting and will use one when stirring up a lot of dust.

Good point on wetting the dust before sweeping it too. I've never thought of that. I'm also going to see if my father will loan me his Jet shop filter to use during the build.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:58 pm
by TomW
Sound like your masks will work fine Casey. Just make sure they have a P95 or P99 particulate filter in them and your good to go. And wear them any time your sanding! 8) I use a HEPA filter in my shop vac to catch the finest of particulates. It's washable so the $30 or so is not so bad after the initial outlay.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom. I will look closely at the filters to make sure I don't need to upgrade.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm almost ready to cover the platform with fiberglass. Here are pictures of the progress below.

I have a couple questions. I posted them below the pics.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

So my question is this. Do I need to add any cross members under the platform after I fiberglass? I am thinking along the lines of a simple "H" configuration of wood on the underside to beef up the platform and keep it from bowing.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom and Swamp Skiff - Here is the filter type I have on my masks. I think I'm good to go.

MSA GME-P100 Cartridge:

P100-Particulate Filter (99.97% filter efficiency level) effective against all particulate aerosols

* Closure Filtration Grade = P100
* Quantity = 2 per package
* Resistance = Organic Vapors, Chlorine, Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine Dioxide, Hydrogen Chloride, Hydrogen Sulfide, Ammonia, Methylamine, Formaldehyde, Hydrogen Fluoride, Mercury Vapor
* Type = Cartridge/Filter
* Usage = Contaminants

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:13 am
by TomW
Your good to go! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:22 am
by cottontop
Your craftsmanship is outstanding. Is the young man onthe paltform your fishing partner? He sure looks ready to go! Continue the good work. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:59 am
by Swamp Skiff
Looks good. You should even be ready to go into a gas station bathroom! :D

Swamp

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:23 am
by tech_support
thats fantastic !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Guys!

Yeah. The little dude will soon be my fishing partner. I can't wait to get him out on the water. I want the first time out in the boat to be with him and my father. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll catch his first fish! In that pic he though it was fun to hide behind the sanding block.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Minn Kota Trim and Troll 24 volt ordered today. Wow - end of the season is the best time to pick up boat parts on clearance.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:07 pm
by SmokyMountain
Minn Kota Trim and Troll 24 volt ordered today. Wow - end of the season is the best time to pick up boat parts on clearance

Hey Casey,

You wouldn't mind giving out where you got your trim and troll on Clearance would you? I am ready to order one too if I can get a good price. If its friend / owner thing I understand. Check my stats for my e-mail address.

Thanks

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew,

I put in a request for you last night with the seller to see if he could find another one. He is on eBay and has a dealership in WI. Not sure of the name of the dealership but his eBay name is jrgent1.

He is going to contact me if he is able to find one. He did not have one in stock but he is going to check with his distributor. Hopefully we will hear back from him.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:16 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I really appreciate that!! 8) Didn't see your post on my thread till just a few minutes ago. Didn't look on the board last night and saw your topic this afternoon. If he can't no big deal. If I run across a good deals, I'll be sure to let you know.
:D
Again Thanks!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
My wife and I and 12 other coworkers are heading to India tomorrow. Pray for our safety.

To follow us on Facebook while we journey to several ministry sites all over the country, click the link below.

http://www.facebook.com/gospelforasia.

I look forward to getting back on the build later this month. I'll try to get some shots of the boats they use in West Bengal, lots of water there.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Yall be careful over there Casey, good luck with your mission 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:06 am
by TomW
Casey may God look over you and help you in your work. Be careful and take care!

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom and Larry. Were headed to the airport now. Have a great weekend.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Back safely from India. I'm recuperating from 11 flights and 2 train rides in 14 days. It was a great trip. Amazing stuff going on Asia with the organization I work for.

When I got back home the Minn Kota Trim and Troll had arrived in the mail. It is one sweet set up. Seems very durable. I look forward to installing it on the boat and testing it on the water. Now that I'm back from India and the cool weather has arrived, it's go time for the build! (Lord willing and there is no major event on the horizon :) )

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:33 pm
by cape man
Glad you're back safe. India is definitiely on the list. Bet it was an eye opener. Spent a month in Indonesia, with a couple days each in Singapore and Hong Kong. Asia is amazing!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It sure is. I would love to visit more parts. Amazing places to see. Amazing people too. The nationals we work with are some of the most gifted and selfless men and women on the planet. People in India really like America as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question about the boat stand.

I am building the stand and was curious about the height. I am planning on starting with the hull upside down on top of the bulkheads and stringers. I'm thinking about 2 feet high for the deck and then sitting on top of that for the bulkheads and stringers. I think this would place the keel between say 4 and 5 feet. I'm six feet tall so this may help keep me from leaning over to much.

Should I go higher? Lower? I really want to avoid to much bending over.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew told me to shoot for 2 feet or less.

The boat stand is coming along nicely. I hope to have the deck on top of the strong backs soon and then I'll place on the bulkheads and the stringers, which are already cut. At that point I'm sure I'll need some input.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Advice needed.

I have been acquiring the parts as I get closer to the build.

I have located a Lowrance HDS-10 Insight USA Multifunction Fishfinder/Chartplotter for $1,500 new. It's a clearance item. My boat will be used for bass fishing all the time and this looks to be one heck of a unit. Should I try to get it? I haven't seen this item for less than $2,000. http://www.lowrance.com/Support/Rebates-and-Promotions/

I have also located a Detwiler hydraulic jack plate with the fancy dial for $800. It retails for $1280. I'm not sure of the setback on this item yet. I was leaning toward a Bob's jack plate but came across this deal. I assume it is the 6 inch set back. They make both a 6 and 8. The item is new. View the PDF here: http://www.marinetechproducts.com/read_ ... me=372.pdf

Casey

The boat stand is almost complete. I need to install one more board and check to see if it's level. After that I'll be ready to place the deck onto the strongbacks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
Advice needed.

I have been acquiring the parts as I get closer to the build.

I have located a Lowrance HDS-10 Insight USA Multifunction Fishfinder/Chartplotter for $1,500 new. It's a clearance item. My boat will be used for bass fishing all the time and this looks to be one heck of a unit. Should I try to get it? I haven't seen this item for less than $2,000. http://www.lowrance.com/Support/Rebates-and-Promotions/

I have also located a Detwiler hydraulic jack plate with the fancy dial for $800. It retails for $1280. I'm not sure of the setback on this item yet. I was leaning toward a Bob's jack plate but came across this deal. I assume it is the 6 inch set back. They make both a 6 and 8. The item is new. View the PDF here: http://www.marinetechproducts.com/read_ ... me=372.pdf

Casey

P.S. The boat stand is almost complete. I need to install one more board and check to see if it's level. After that I'll be ready to place the deck onto the strongbacks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:14 am
by TomW
FF I'd go ahead and get the Lowrance at that price you can't go wrong. It is $500 below what anyone else is selling if for. Just make sure it is new, in the box, never used, with all the parts.

As far as the jack plate you can get a Bob's through here with the 10% discount and free shipping and pay for the dial for about the same as what your paying for your Detwiler.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

I'm looking to use the Teleflex CH7500 for my throttle control. It has two toggle switches for trim and tilt. I asked Teleflex if I could use the second toggle switch for the motor on the Bob's Jack Plate and they said, "that will work as long as your jack plate does not require more than 5 volts to work."

Do you know how much voltage the Bob's unit draws?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:22 pm
by TomW
No, but they have an on line tech support line that got back to me the same day or the next day when I e-mailed them. http://www.bobsmachine.com/request-support.cfm

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent TomW.

I will check with them.

Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Has anybody used one of the Teleflex Tilt helms? I am curious to know if it is very robust.

I know I will use the boat from a standing position as well as a sitting position and think the flexibility of the tilt sounds nice. However, if going with a fixed helm is better I will go that route.

Here is the one I am looking at.

http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... -steering/

Thanks for your input.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:12 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm looking to use the Teleflex CH7500 for my throttle control. It has two toggle switches for trim and tilt. I asked Teleflex if I could use the second toggle switch for the motor on the Bob's Jack Plate and they said, "that will work as long as your jack plate does not require more than 5 volts to work."

Do you know how much voltage the Bob's unit draws?

Sincerely,

Casey
I really think they meant 5 amps, not 5 volts. Everything in the boat runs on 12 volts :wink: If the unit draws more than 5 amps then you have to install a solenoid in the circuit.

You will like the CH7500, it's a very good control box.
Has anybody used one of the Teleflex Tilt helms? I am curious to know if it is very robust.
Yes, it's robust. Good stuff 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
CrackerLarry,

I thought 5 "volts" sounded odd. Amps makes a lot more sense. I'm contacting Bob's today to see what they say that pump draws.

Thanks for the input on the helm. I've been kinda leery of a tilt on a boat. I worry about there being to much play. In a car of course you just sit but in a boat I feel I'll be hanging on to that steering wheel a lot. I'll look into the tilt options a little more then.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
CrackerLarry,

I heard back from Bob's. Their switch is fused at 5 amps. They say it should work just fine.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:30 pm
by TomW
Great! :D I told you there responses were fast! :lol: :lol:

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah. Very impressive. I'm leaning toward the 4 inch ultra.

I have been acquiring part numbers for the steering assembly. Next will be gauges, the fish finder and other miscellaneous parts. Then I'm going to email this to different retainers to see if I can pick up some decent "end of season" discounts. :)

I'f you know any good retailers willing to discount their parts for year end liquidation let me know.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:25 pm
by cali123
I would like to add my two cents about the tilt helm. I have had an 18ft. stern drive with hydraulic steering and a tilt helm for about 14 years. I have really enjoyed the flexibility of steering positions offered by the tilt. I owned a bassboat for many years with an outboard and standard helm. It worked just fine. In either case , I did not find myself having to hang on to the steering wheel for support. Your sitting or standing positions should be set up to support your body so you can safely control the boat.I found a good used Morse rack with tilt on ebay for my xf20. The tilt mechanism has a tight and positive drive coupling to the helm. I havent splashed the boat yet but I am very confident that I will love the tilt. Hope this helps. Shelby :!: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Shelby this is good input. Helpful. Thank you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question regarding the transducer and one about Lowrance's Insight maps.

Do you guys prefer the transom mount or the through-hull design?

Are the preloaded insight maps any good?

Thanks

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:51 pm
by TomW
Casey any of the transom mount transducers can be made into shoot through the hull transducers. You just have to cut out the plywood in the area around where you want it to be and place clear epoxy in its place. As far as the Insight charts I don't know. I have always used the older Lowrance units that don't support them. Cracker Larry has not heard good things about the new Lowrance units and after some research I agree with him, I think they rushed these to market, the old ones were top of the line. You might want to reconsider and go with a Hummingbird.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I keep finding good things and bad things about both. For example, the guy that is selling this unit replaced his Hummingbird 9 Inch sidescan with the Lowrance 10 Inch sidescan about a year ago and loves it. He does not normally sell the Lowrance but happens to have a couple he picked up at a discount and is reselling them.

Whats nice is he is selling the unit so cheap that I can hang onto it, new in the box, for it a little while. If I decide to go with the Hummingbird I can sell it for a tasty profit! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:03 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I'm going to install a thru hull. Like Tom said, cut a whole and fill with epoxy. I looked at some of the manufacturer specs and as long as there are no voids you are good. (At least from my understanding) I'll adding some milled fiber in with the epoxy for strength. I think Majorgator installed one on his build a few weeks ago.... check that out.

As for Lowrance units, I have not had good luck and I have friends that have not had good luck.(Other Lowrance units not HDS) I like the look and function of the HDS but probably will not go with one... Also, their customer service is lacking....but your gettg an excellent price which would be a major factor.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew,

I like this epoxy idea. I'll look into it a little closer. I prefer to avoid the through hull, not only for the savings, but I dislike the idea of an unnecessary hole in the hull.

Thank you for your input on the Lowrance too. I wonder if there is anybody on here who has had luck with the Lowrance HDS that may want to chime in. I understand they are getting ready to release another software release... that may fix a few bugs.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Has anybody seen the new stainless steel gauge from Bob's Machine Shop? I'm not to fond of the black or white gauges. I know they haven't released it yet but wondered if any pics were out there that may give us some idea as to what it looks like.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
Nevermind... I heard back from Bob's.
Dear Casey,

We do have the bezel completed, it is actually a polished stainless steel bezel (looks like chrome) so will have a longer life!

Picture attached. (it is the black gauge with the bezel installed, but can also be installed on our white gauge)

Bezel is $9.95

The gauge is $159.95 + 9.95 for the bezel.

Let me know if I can help further.

Best regards,

Steve

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. I'm curious about draft in relation to engine weight. So I found this quote.
jacquesmm wrote:The first prototype had a draft of 6" with a 70 HP on the transom and I standing at the console.
Deadrise at the transom is 2 or 3 degrees.
(Don't judge a boat by it's deadrise only).
I don't know what negative degrees mean, sorry.
And then this quote...
jacquesmm wrote:From memory, I believe that 70Hp was 270 lbs.
I have seen the PH18 with engines up to 125 and owners were happy.
The 4 stroke 90 hp Yamaha is 369 pounds. How much additional draft do you think this 100 lbs makes when compared to Jacquses' prototype? Are there any "general" mathematical equations or "rule of thumb" guestimations to help determine how much the transom will go down with the additional weight? To reduce weight I'm using Okoume and eliminating all but maybe 3 hatches.

I'm also looking at adding the Bob's Ultra Light jack plate which weighs 29 lbs plus the pump. The boat will be fitted with Minn Kota trim and trolls as well. We weighed the motors and they are 18 lbs each plus the weight of the actuator and tab. This will also require two trolling motors (Optima Blue Tops). They'll either be in the front of the boat, next to the fuel tanks but in a different compartment, or under the center console. The starting battery will be under the center console.

And last but not least.... Just how much of a concern is the increased draft, or am I splitting hairs on this stuff? I would love some feedback from other Phantom owners, specifically their HP, make and model. Heck! I would even buy a drink for the guy who adds 100 pounds of weight to the back of his Phantom and tells me how much it sinks!!!!! :lol:

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:08 am
by TomW
FF as long as you move weight forward like the batteries in the console the extra 100lbs will lower you no more than 1/3". This is a result of the Displacement of the boat and the PPI being what they are. Jacques doesn't give displacement for the PH18 but let's assume 1900lbs, a reasonable amount for an 850lb boat, PPi would then be around 375-400lbs based on the width of the PH18. PPI is the additional 1" of draft that adding that amount of weight would be lost.

So in effect for 100lbs of weight you would lose about 1/4" in draft 100/375 or 400. Basically not much at all. So moving the batteries to the console will be all you need to bring it back to level trim with the !/4" loss.

Hope that explains it.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
This helps a lot. Thanks TomW. I appreciate all the insight.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

Would you suggest placing all three batteries under the console, assuming they will fit? Or should I go with the thicker gauge wire and place the two trolling motor batteries under the front casting deck as planned?

I've read where builders, upon completion of the boat, have wished their batteries were more toward the front. Some even chose to move them under the front deck after construction.

If the weight distribution is better under the front deck then I don't mind the extra expense for 8 or 10 more feet of thicker gauge wire.

As always, thanks for your time.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:50 pm
by TomW
Two batteries 150lbs or so. I'd put them closer to the trolling motor for less loss through the wires to it. I assume you'll have a livewell in the back and they will help offset the water in it also.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The trolling motors will actually be off the transom mounted to the trim tabs. The speed control for the motors will prob be under the console. So were talking only about a 6 to 8 feet run from behind bulkhead a to the speed control. However I will have to measure this. Would I be able to recover most of the loss to resistance by simply upping the wire thickness?

As for the live well and bait well I will have them but they will rarely be used. I don't bait fish nor do I really keep the fish I catch so I will rarely be offsetting the weight of the water back there.

Here is the line up of heavy items. 2 13 gallon fuel tanks followed by an ice chest followed by the center console with starting battery followed by the jack plate, motor and trolling motors. So there are really only two choices (console or front deck).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cont.... Can I use scrap 1/2 okoume laminated together for the support that holds up the sole? I'm referring to the wood that is added to the top edge of the bulkhead and stringers... Not sure what it's called.... A cleat maybe?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:13 pm
by TomW
In your trolling situation then I'd put them in the front part of the console. Depending on wire size you could still put them in the front but remember to do your wire math first, you have a lot of wire going from the motor to the batteries and back to the motors.

Sure just glue up a bunch of 1/2 to 1/2" at one time then rip it 1" wide. There you have it 1" x 1" cleats. You can even do 1/2 " with 1/4" and have 3/4" inch cleats, all depends on what you have for scrap.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good TomW.

I'll place the batteries where you suggest and install conduit just in case they need to be moved to the front for ballast.

I'll also plan to use the plywood scrap for the cleats.

I just picked up the vent hose for both tanks as well as the electrical wire for the front nav light and the cockpit LEDs. West Marine was having a 1/2 off sale for misc odds and ends.

Thanks for the advice.

Casey

PS Who makes the best, most high end, marine electrical supplies? (Switches/fuses/breakers/LED lights etc...)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:09 pm
by TomW
I have Blue Seas marked for all my stuff and I believe CL used them for all of his.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. I'll check em out. Thanks

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:26 am
by TomW
FF I should have said for the main electrical like battery and other switches, buss bars, circuit breakers, etc use Blue Seas. Anchor for the wire ends, they have shrink wrap fittings, once you crimp them on. For lights Perko and a couple of others are okay.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

The stern light is Perko. The bow light is Aqua Signal. The one package of butt connectors I picked up, for dry locations only, is a package of Ancor butt connectors that are not the type that heat shrink on the ends. Should I skip these and go with the kind that have the ends with the heat shrink? I was planning on using the heat shrink in the areas where water may find its way onto the wires.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Casey, use heat shrink connections on EVERY wire :wink: There is no place on a boat that water won't find it's way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:21 am
by gstanfield
Yep, and not only water, but vibration is a big enemy of electrical connections and heat shrink helps a ton with that too and boats certainly see a fair amount of vibration both on the trailer and out across the water. :D

Not that CL needed me to back him up, just adding to his already good thought :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:56 am
by TomW
What they said and I'll use heat shrink tubing on larger wires that I can get it on, to double it up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
I hadn't considered vibration but I thought it made more sense to use all shrink wrap connectors as well. I'll go this route. So what about soldering the connections and then shrink wrapping them and avoid the crimp all together. I have seen crimps fail in the past and it seems a good solder would last a very long time.

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:19 am
by TomW
Nope Coast Guard prohibits soldering, must crimp, soldering can break from the vibration/pounding of the boat. You use a double crimp with a good set of crimpers. Stephen just showed the set he got in his post. They are $45-60 and rachet. Only crimp don't do anything else. Maybe we can get a set on the tool exchange.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ahhh... Coast Guard. Good call. I need to read those regs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:25 pm
by JimmyB
Hi Tom,

Interesting, where can I find the reg on solder? So far I didn't see anything in 33CFR, I could have missed it.

Thanks, Jimmy

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:34 pm
by TomW
It's in the Boat Builder's Handbook somewhere just don't have the time to look it up now.
http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/ ... tions.aspx

But think about it would you prefer a soldered joint for your life to depend upon that I guanantee will crack over time on a boat or a crimped one that will never come loose when properly done with the proper tool.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:40 pm
by cali123
I found the crimp versus solder info. very interesting. I have always leaned towards soldering (being ignorant of the regs). Anyway I wanted to add that I always try to cover the elecrical connections with liquid electrical tape as an added moisture barrier. I have found it to be especially effective when used on bolted terminals like the guages. When it comes time to remove the fastner, the coating doesn't interfere. I really enjoy learning from the experience and knowledge of others. Shelby :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Shelby. Sounds like a good idea. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:52 pm
by JimmyB
TomW wrote: But think about it would you prefer a soldered joint for your life to depend upon that I guanantee will crack over time on a boat or a crimped one that will never come loose when properly done with the proper tool.
Ok, is that a rhetorical question? :D

Actually I was just curious about any regulation that might exist. ABYC standards (E11.16.3.7) say solder should not be the sole means of making a mechanical connection in any circuit. Since soldering wire makes stranded stuff solid, this creates a hard spot at the end of the soldered wire. This is just like laying a rod on the gunnel while dragging on a big AJ. The solution of course is to keep the solder to a minimum required to do the job and secure the wire. Also, make the guys who do dumb stuff with fishing rods bring their own gear.

The benefit to solder is like the "lock and key" thing. If solder is in there, than there is no room for corrosion. In that case butt splices utilizing "correctly applied" crimps and shielding such as heat shrink tubing (I like the adhesive lined stuff, just don't leave it on the dash in the Carolina summer sun) will do an ample job. Where I have used solder successfully with no attributable sinkings and/or loss of life :lol: is on terminal ends such as ring connectors. Even with all the space age "polymers" and such the wire end can still get exposed to the air. (salt air, or any air, on the beach my refrigerator door was rusting in an air conditioned and dehumidified house) After crimping a terminal end (per ABYC standard) on the wire, I tin, or apply a small amount of solder to the exposed wire end, than slide the heat shrink into place and apply. If your using blind, or closed end terminals this is of course not necessary, but a proper set of crimpers is.

This is also a good upgrade when using less than a "proper" crimping tool. Not that I am endorsing the practice but I've done many a job with the crappy type, again with no loss of life! At the end of the day marine grade wire, quality hardware and good tools will do nicely. Unless of course you just like to solder, but than a good understanding of ABYC standards on the subject would be warranted.

Best Regards, JImmy

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
More good input from Jimmy. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:48 pm
by TomW
Your right Jimmy it was the ABYC standard not the CG rule that required the crimp not solder. First with the shrink wrap fittings you can't get any solder into the wire so that elimates the need for the solder. That is the purpose of them. Second if you double shrink wrap them you have the same epuipment with you and do it at the same time you do the fitting.

I'll also say that at some point it time that hard point of solder will crack in that fitting and will slowly allow corrosion to enter.

But do it however you want it's your boat and good fishing! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

I took back the simple butt connectors and purchased a package of 25 shrink wrap butt connectors. I also managed to get the final three pieces of Okoume BS1088 needed. Now I'm getting even closer to making my epoxy and fiberglass purchase from Shine. Sweet!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:48 am
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:TomW,

I took back the simple butt connectors and purchased a package of 25 shrink wrap butt connectors. I also managed to get the final three pieces of Okoume BS1088 needed. Now I'm getting even closer to making my epoxy and fiberglass purchase from Shine. Sweet!

Casey
Hey Casey,

Have you found local supplier for Okoume?


Steven

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

Had I have not had to acquire the wood materials over a few purchases because of cost, that and I picked some up from another builder, I would have just ordered from Shine here at Bateau.

Bateau's prices are very competitive. Since I purchased it in three batches I did not go that route. I purchased the majority from another builder after he decided not to go with such a large boat and the rest came from Austin and Houston. PM me if you want more detail.

Hope this helps.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
A couple recommendations needed...

1. Best place to purchase Blue Sea electrical parts? Pricing? Expertise?

2. Does anyone know any builders that have installed or own a set of Minn Kota Trim and Trolls?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:07 pm
by TomW
For the BlueSeas try Boatersland Marine and Jamestown Distributers. Jamestown has a greater selection but Boatersland usually beats them on price. http://www.boatersland.com/ http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/main.do

Boatersland also has very good prices on other things and if you can wait for there Christmas sale things are even cheaper.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent. Sounds like a plan.

Thank you

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:05 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Steven,

Had I have not had to acquire the wood materials over a few purchases because of cost, that and I picked some up from another builder, I would have just ordered from Shine here at Bateau.

Bateau's prices are very competitive. Since I purchased it in three batches I did not go that route. I purchased the majority from another builder after he decided not to go with such a large boat and the rest came from Austin and Houston. PM me if you want more detail.

Hope this helps.

Casey

Thanks Casey. I bought all mine from Houston Hardwoods. I need some 1/2" as I ran short for the sole in the stern lockers. I have a full sheet of 1/4", so I can laminate up what I need. When I Built the GV11 years ago, there was a place in Dallas that carried it. Was bummed when they stopped. But the drive to Houston wasn't bad. Took the wife and made a day trip. Their prices are great and their selection is phenomenal.

Steven

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah, I've had no luck finding it here either. How far is Burleson from Dallas?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:11 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Yeah, I've had no luck finding it here either. How far is Burleson from Dallas?
On on the southside of Fort Worth. About 30 miles from Dallas. I work in Irving off of 161.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
We ought to go out on your boat some time. You can give me a few building pointers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Has anybody made their own anchor pin similar to the stickit anchor pin? I think I would like to make one as a lighter, cheaper, alternative to the power pole. I suppose I could buy one. Making one may be more trouble than it's worth. Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:47 am
by callyb
I haven't made one, but I'm going to... After I started looking around to see what other people had come up with I came across this link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZOwRFn1kyE

If you look in the description for the video, he put the link for the electronics. (make sure you buy the sealed actuator)

Here's a link for the fiberglass rod.... :doh: I don't know what I did with that link? I did a quick google search and couldn't find the place I was going to purchase from. I'll find it later I guess. Anyway, I am pretty sure they were in South Carolina.

I hope this helps... After I priced everything out, it should be around $350-$400 in material for an 8' setup.

Carl

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:41 am
by Cracker Larry
Joel has (had?) the fiberglass rods and aluminum brackets available here.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:50 am
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:We ought to go out on your boat some time. You can give me a few building pointers.
Definitley. Been thinking about going soon. Haven't been out on the GV this year. Not wanted to take time away from the build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I think I'll just go the route of using the rod and storing it in one of rod tubes. Something 8 to 10 feet with a spike on one end and a T on the other. Then if I don't like it I may build or invest in a power pole. Any idea how long those rods are? I'm thinking building one may be easier than shipping a long rod.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:01 pm
by TomW
The rods are only $25. The brackets $75. I'd e-mail them and ask for a quote on shipping. I don't think you can build one of the proper density and strength for that price.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - what boat are you building?

Tom - makes sense.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm on the hunt for popup push pole hooks.

Anybody know the difference between the Attwood vs the Accon? Preference?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:30 pm
by TomW
ff I forgot to put the page up with the pole and bracket on it. It also has an automatic e-mail connection over on the right of the page for questions. http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=26

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:47 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Steven - what boat are you building?

Tom - makes sense.


OB19

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=210

I completed a GV11 a few years ago.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW - Thank you.

Steven - Sweet!

I'm looking at the Rex Marine battery boxes. Those things look tough. So are they any good? Do the terminals have to be covered?

http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/me ... tboxbilopt

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:10 pm
by Steven
Those are some cool looking boxes. Awful pretty to be hiddent in a compartment. I'd prefer the terminals be covered, as in a normal battery box. Anything shorts across the posts and you'll have lots of excitement.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good point on both accounts. The reason I'm interested is for the fit around the optima battery. It looks like it would not be loose or wobble around any.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Pole holders. I'm considering putting this one at the front and the standard two holders toward the back.

http://www.myboatsgear.com/mbg/product.asp?prodID=1447

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Good stuff 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent.

So is it a good idea to have one as a "closed" ring toward the bow and the one in the middle and toward the stern open? I assume that the front ring would be pretty easy to "thread" and the middle and back two hooks would best be left as hooks and not rings.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Casey, most boats use 3 open rings, pop up or not. The open side of the fore and aft brackets face in and the open face of the center bracket faces out. The pole is sprung across the center and follows the gunwale fore and aft. A closed circle really isn't necessary, but if I used one I would put it towards the bow.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:02 am
by SmokyMountain
I love your research Casey. You are making my life a lot easier. 8) 8) I like the idea of a closed ring in the bow. When do you think you will get started? I'm about done with my sheer clamps, will be reflipping next weekend.... :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew - thanks.

I have the bulkheads and stingers and transom cut out and the boat stand almost done. The poling platform is almost done. I hope to set the bulkheads and stringers up soon so I can start to work on the hull. Recently though I have been in part accumulation mode. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does the fuel vent have to be grounded?

I'm highly considering the new Minn Kota Talon over the other manual and automatic options. That thing looks great.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:46 pm
by TomW
Casey the fuel vent and fill need to be grounded only if they are metal. Even then the vent doesn't have to be grounded if it is not attached to the fuel fill. CL used a one part fill and vent that Perko makes that means only one hole in the hull and I am using the same thing. Others have done the same thing. In fact Shine sells one here in the store. They are made of a plastic and don't need grounding at all.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Originally I had ordered the one piece plastic from Perko but it did not fit well. The neck would force the fill line to bend down to low.

So I ordered the metal fuel fill and fitted it with a Graco 90. Now it will fit but it required the separate vent, which is metal. So I guess I can skip the ground wire for the vent.

Would it be best practice to go ahead and ground it just to be safe?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:44 pm
by Cracker Larry
No need to ground the vent fitting. The fill is grounded to prevent static discharge when filling the tank.
Sec. 183.572 Grounding. Each metallic component of the fuel fill system and fuel tank which is in contact with fuel must be statically grounded so that the resistance between the ground and each metallic component of the fuel fill system and fuel tank is less than 100 ohms.


Here is more than you wanted to know http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/33CFR_Fuel.html
also http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/fuel.html

Remember to make a loop in the vent line to act as a water trap :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent CL!

What size grounding wire for the fill then? Will 18 work?

I'm at the store now.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Is there a standard hose size for the drain cups on the lights and push pole hooks and such?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
What size grounding wire for the fill then? Will 18 work?
No, 12GA for grounds :wink: Hope I caught you in time.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Is there a standard hose size for the drain cups on the lights and push pole hooks and such?
I don't know if there is a standard. Most I've seen are 1/4", but they could be anything.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
CL. You did respond in time. However, my phone had died. I'll be on that side of town again tomorrow and will plan to pick up the number 12 wire. I'll call mtg for the tube diameter.

On the tubbing. Do I simply run the water that collects in the bow nav light and from the front and middle push pole hooks into the cockpit? Or do I run the drain hose all the way back to the back? I figure if there is water in the cups then it's prob coming in the cockpit as well.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:07 am
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
What size grounding wire for the fill then? Will 18 work?
No, 12GA for grounds :wink: Hope I caught you in time.
Not to hijack the thread, but this brings up a question. I planned on grounding the fuel fill to the ground wire for the sending unit. I wasn't planning on running 12GA for the sending unit, so I'm not sure I'd need 12GA for the ground from the filler to the connection for the common ground. Am I off base here? Do I need a separate ground 12GA ground wire run from the main ground block?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:29 am
by Cracker Larry
Steven, it doesn't matter if the fill is grounded at the tank, or grounded at the buss, whichever is easier to route. Typically a #12 wire is run from the fill fitting to the ground fitting on the tank, and another #12 run from the tank to the ground buss. As long as everything is tied to the common ground. See this pic...

http://newboatbuilders.com/images/Fuel_Tank.jpg

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Do I simply run the water that collects in the bow nav light and from the front and middle push pole hooks into the cockpit? Or do I run the drain hose all the way back to the back? I figure if there is water in the cups then it's prob coming in the cockpit as well.
Whatever. I would probably drain them to the cockpit, that's what I do with my cup holders anyway.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:42 am
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:Steven, it doesn't matter if the fill is grounded at the tank, or grounded at the buss, whichever is easier to route. Typically a #12 wire is run from the fill fitting to the ground fitting on the tank, and another #12 run from the tank to the ground buss. As long as everything is tied to the common ground. See this pic...

http://newboatbuilders.com/images/Fuel_Tank.jpg
Thanks. That is what I am planning to do. I'm running duplex to the tank, and wasn't planning on running 12GA.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
CL

In addition to the common ground, are the "tank gauge ground" wire and the "tank gauge sender" wires typically designed into one harness from the mfg? Say from yammy or evinrude...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Look at the above pic again Steven. There should be 3 wires run to the tank (not counting the fill fitting ground, which makes 4) You will have a sender +, a sender -, and the tank ground should be a separate wire. I used #12 triplex. The sender will work fine on an 18 or even 22 ga wire.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:34 am
by Cracker Larry
In addition to the common ground, are the "tank gauge ground" wire and the "tank gauge sender" wires typically designed into one harness from the mfg? Say from yammy or evinrude...
No, well, I don't really know. Maybe if you use the Yamaha or Evinrude gauge package it might be, but I used Teleflex gauges.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:21 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:Look at the above pic again Steven. There should be 3 wires run to the tank (not counting the fill fitting ground, which makes 4) You will have a sender +, a sender -, and the tank ground should be a separate wire. I used #12 triplex. The sender will work fine on an 18 or even 22 ga wire.
FlyFish, if you'd like this moved to a new thread, I'll happily ablige if this is not helpful for you.


That's not how Moeller's gauge instructions show it. They show 2 wires to the sender. I don't understand the need for an isolated ground. Sorry if I'm being dense. The sender has two connections. A center threaded Lug, and a spade connector on the outer edge.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:32 pm
by JamesT
I think what he is saying, is that if it is a metal tank it should be grounded. Then the sender has to have a seperate ground in order to operate the sending unit, you could ground the sending unit to the same ground wire for the tank.
Im not an expert like some here, but this is the same principle used in cars, its just much easier because there is usually a piece of metal nearby to ground it to. The tank is grounded, the sender is grounded, and the fuel fill is grounded. Im not for sure if you have to run dedicated circuits back to the buss or battery, or if you could just splice them in to one common wire.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Never make a splice on a boat wire that you can avoid. Run dedicated wires.
That's not how Moeller's gauge instructions show it. They show 2 wires to the sender. I don't understand the need for an isolated ground.
They are only showing you what is required to make the sender work, not what is required to meet grounding standards. While it does sound redundant, they are 2 separate circuits with 2 separate functions. The sending unit uses current in the milliamps and would work fine with even a 28 GA wire. But the ground is a bonding system to protect the boat and fuel from high voltage static discharge, lightning strikes, contact with power lines, whatever. It may be required to handle a large amount of current and high voltages. Even most plastic tanks have both a sending unit ground and a bonding ground. Even though they are common points, industry standards require both.

You could probably go all your life and never have a problem just using one, as long as it is large enough, but that's how to do it right :wink: Here is a pic of mine, the spade fitting is the sender ground, the phillips screw is the bonding ground, center of course is the sender+. I had some 12/3 wire, but you could do this with small duplex for the sender and a large ground.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:41 pm
by TomW
Larry great explanation and picture. Since you have that up, I keep meaning to ask where you got those clamps from?

Thanks, Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:49 pm
by Steven
Thanks Larry. The Pic clarifies your point well. I don't recall a separate bonding screw on my sending unit. I will double check tonight. If not, I will run a separate bonding wire back to the bus. Not any trouble since I haven't pulled any wires yet. I just want to be certain to do the wiring right, and one time. Gotta find a good book on DC boat wiring. Any recommended links?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:52 pm
by JamesT
Cool...thanks for the explanation CL.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This is all very helpful. I'll pick up enough wire to ground the vent and the sending unit independently. The tanks are plastic and I see no ground lug for them so I'll skip any ground.

Thanks!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
I keep meaning to ask where you got those clamps from?
I don't remember Tom. It was either Hamilton or Jamestown.
Gotta find a good book on DC boat wiring. Any recommended links?
They sell a pretty good one right here http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=SPA002

There is also another good one called the 12 Volt Dr. For Boats. Amazon.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
I picked up the drain tube for the bow nav light. The drain cup was manufactured cheap. The hardware is nice but the plastic is extremely thin. Even putting on the drain hose the plastic started to crack. I'm gonna make a new one.

Using the cup as a mold, I'll place fiberglass and epoxy inside and then pop the cup off after it cures. Bingo! New cup.

So my question is what can I apply to the surface of the cup, which is smooth, to keep the epoxy from sticking?

Thanks!

P.S. I acquired the ground wire for the tanks and the deck fills. (16 gauge).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:10 am
by Steven
If it's smooth plastic, it will probably pop right off without the need for any release agent.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good Steven. I'll give it a try.

So should I go with breakers or fuses? I like the look of the breakers better.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:47 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Sounds good Steven. I'll give it a try.

So should I go with breakers or fuses? I like the look of the breakers better.

I bought a BlueSea switch panel which uses fuses. Very nice panel.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:12 am
by TomW
Casey you can go with something like this, http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... Fuse+Panel , which has the fuses, or like this which also has the fuses, http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... Fuse+Panel CL used the 2nd one and I think I'll use the 1st one. From the discussions here at Jamestown and at the BlueSeas sight I don't see much difference in the two as far as water tightness. The fuses come with both, they just use different types.

CL may have more info and experience than I do, he's the electrical expert in the group.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Steven and Tom. Maybe CL will chime in with some info as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:39 am
by Cracker Larry
I prefer fuses myself, I think they are more reliable. My reasoning is that breakers are a mechanical device that can and do fail. Breakers go bad sometimes even if they aren't tripped. If a fuse goes bad you can easily replace it, but if a breaker fails you can't do anything about it on the water, except bypass it, then you have to figure if it was tripping because of an overload, or just tripping because it's bad. Can't beat that Blue Sea equipment, good stuff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks CL. I'll look into fuses a little closer.

I ordered the Macco push pole holders. They look like they'll do the trick.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:56 pm
by TomW
Casey you really can't go wrong with either of the fused switch panels I listed above. While they come with fuses you may have to change out to smaller sizes on some circuits. I'm with Larry on the circuit breakers, they can fail on there own and then your out of luck. With a fuse you just replace it and your good to go. Or it fails again and you know that there is a definate problem with that peice of equipment.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW and CL,

Today I picked up the wire for the trim tabs and the trolling motors along with the 150 Amp fuse for the trolling motors and a 30 Amp fuse for the trim tabs. Blue Sea stuff. The fuses are sweet. The fuse assembly mounts directly to the terminal post on the battery. Very handy.

I also picked up a ProMariner ProSport20 Plus. It will charge all three 12 volt batteries independently and mounts under the console. It's suitable for high performance batteries. I have yet to get the switch panel. Hopefully I'll purchase it next.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:22 pm
by Steven
You ever listen to the fishing show on the weekends on KRLD? They are tearing up the White Bass and Hybrids on most of the Lakes. Grapevine is on fire. I'm feeling the urge.

You going with a 24V Trolling motor?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

I'll need to listen to this show. I have never heard it before. Sound's cool. I would like to go fishing as well. I may hit Lake Fork over the Thanksgiving weekend.

Yes, I have purchased the Minn Kota trim and troll 24V. It has two 80lb thrusters, each mounted to the trim tabs.

How is your build coming along?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:03 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Steven,

I'll need to listen to this show. I have never heard it before. Sound's cool. I would like to go fishing as well. I may hit Lake Fork over the Thanksgiving weekend.

Yes, I have purchased the Minn Kota trim and troll 24V. It has two 80lb thrusters, each mounted to the trim tabs.

How is your build coming along?

Casey

It's on Sat. and Sun. Mornings. Must come on about 5AM. I listen to it on the way to work. Build is good. Primed the undersides of the side decks today. Tomorrow they get glued down. Almost done with major construction.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Awesome. I hope to get in a lot of building the next few weeks... Lord Willing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
My Accon push pole hooks that recess into the deck came in today. They are very well built.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about cutting the hull and the time it takes to do it in relation to my epoxy order.

I have my bulkheads and stringers cut out and almost ready to go on the boat stand. My question is how quickly do I get to the tabbing stage? From your experience of where I am should I go ahead and order the epoxy now or does cutting and messing with the uniformity of the hull and the zip ties take longer than one expects?

I'm shooting for Thanksgiving weekend and will have at least two full days of work with my dad as a helper to cut the hull and stitch it together. Will we find that were are just sitting there twiddling our thumbs with nothing to do after say the first day?

Thanks for your input.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:15 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:I have a question about cutting the hull and the time it takes to do it in relation to my epoxy order.

I have my bulkheads and stringers cut out and almost ready to go on the boat stand. My question is how quickly do I get to the tabbing stage? From your experience of where I am should I go ahead and order the epoxy now or does cutting and messing with the uniformity of the hull and the zip ties take longer than one expects?

I'm shooting for Thanksgiving weekend and will have at least two full days of work with my dad as a helper to cut the hull and stitch it together. Will we find that were are just sitting there twiddling our thumbs with nothing to do after say the first day?

Thanks for your input.

Casey
Do you have your transom laminated and your side and bottom panels glued/taped together. Zipping the panels loosely over the frames takes a couple of hours with two people. Not much to that. Fussing with getting it the way you like it can take a while depending on how careful you are setting up the frames/jig, and how nicely the panels are cut. Was this a kit? If it goes well you you could get it zipped together and glued between the zip ties in one day if that's all you have to do. Mileage varies. :)

Tip: Use 2" long pieces of 1" pvc under each zip tie to aid with maintaining a nice gap and fair curves. If the jig is assembled accurately, and the panels are cut accurately, it isn't hard to tie together. Just make sure it looks fair and the bottom running surface is flat where it's supposed to be.


Also, don't forget to duct tape the underside of the seams before gluing. Awful hard to clean up cured epxy drippings from concrete. ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Your transom comment answered my question. If I need to start there, then I need to order my epoxy kit first and have it ready and jigged up on the stand by the time my father arrives.

Does it matter where the splices for the stringers are? The way I cut the stringers out of the plywood, I have the splices for all four stringers in the same location across the boat from port to starboard. Do I need to do anything special for beefing up the splices than what is already called for in the design. This did not occur to me until after I made the cuts.

I have cut pieces to glue adjacent to the ends of the stringer sections, where they butt up to one another (I know there is a correct name for this piece of wood) that are about 2 feet in length and about the same height as the stringer itself. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for your help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:13 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Your transom comment answered my question. If I need to start there, then I need to order my epoxy kit first and have it ready and jigged up on the stand by the time my father arrives.

Does it matter where the splices for the stringers are? The way I cut the stringers out of the plywood, I have the splices for all four stringers in the same location across the boat from port to starboard. Do I need to do anything special for beefing up the splices than what is already called for in the design. This did not occur to me until after I made the cuts.

I have cut pieces to glue adjacent to the ends of the stringer sections, where they butt up to one another (I know there is a correct name for this piece of wood) that are about 2 feet in length and about the same height as the stringer itself. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for your help.
If you cut them out per the plans, build them as specified. Spanning the joints with butt blocks will add strength to them. You'll have several layers of glass tape on each side of the stringers and 1x cleats on both sides for the sole to glue to. All of the components add up to one strong super structure. If you then foam in between with marine expanding foam, you'll add more strength. But you do want the stringers built properly.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Well... I have already cut them, per the plans, the joints are just in a different location. I'll just pay extra attention to beefing the splices up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today I ordered the Silvertip Epoxy Kit from Shine.

I also picked up the wiring for the jack plate, the drain tube for the push pole hooks and the tube for the baitwell and livewell.

I'm getting a little closer every day.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:41 am
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:Well... I have already cut them, per the plans, the joints are just in a different location. I'll just pay extra attention to beefing the splices up.
Hi Casey.
I'm getting back to my build after some corrections to changes that I made on my PH18. :oops:
The stringer joints are in different locations so just adjust for where end up. Some may be at the bulkheads if I remember right. :doh:
If you butt block, I'd leave a top space for the cleat that your sole attaches to. You'll probably have to fillet the edges of the blocks when you tab in the stringers so not to cause air bubbles.

When you zip the hull and sides, use the pvc spacers and leave all the ties very loose. then start at the bow to get the 4 cuts to come together and fit properly. With everything loose, you'll be able to move the panel so you can get a good fit. When I did mine, I went back to front and wound up starting over cause the bow didn't align worth beans.

Make sure that you support the bow before you do the fitting of stringer, bulkheads, rub rails, etc. The bow will droop when it's flipped if you don't and the other components won't fit right. Sad to say, I learner the hard way. :x

I taped heavy black plastic to the floor of my garage so I wouldn't have to worry about drips or accidents.

I'm sure most, if not all of this you already know. I'd haven't read you entire thread. So If I'm repeating , just ignore me.
I'm also wondering if you have pics.

Later, Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D,

All of this info is helpful. I was unfamiliar with these tricks/methods. The more you can teach me the better.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:18 pm
by TomW
Casey get everything cut, glued together, spliced and whatever else before your dad gets there. Get the frame set up and square. If you have the bottoms cut you can even go ahead and cut the fiberglass 6" biax just measure along the seam and leave it a little long, same with the chine seams. Roll it up and mark it with a Sharpie.

When It says wet on wet don't forget that means 24hrs more if it's cool. So if you can get the boat lined up in one day and get the seams down one day and go with the fiberglass the next your still good.

Get out the Lamination Schedule and know it by heart and go through how you are going to do everything by step.

When you do your tack welding how are you going to do it. A gallon heavy freezer ziplock bag with a small hole in the corner works well but takes a little practice. Do that now. Make sure you have tape under the seams so any excess doesn't fall through. Once that sets round it over so you have a nice round 1/2" curve for the fiberglass and fill in any gaps and the holes for the zipties.

Really just go back through the tutorials they will help a lot.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

I was planning on using the heavy freezer zip lock bag trick. Either that or some cake frosting bags. I'll get in there and start looking over the tutorials. I was also planning on duct taping the inside of the hull, which will be inverted on my stand, to keep the mess down and the material to a minimum. I like the round over trick. The epoxy arrived today.

My father and I have been working up a wiring schematic for the boat. Just about anything you can add to a flats boat to increase its performance, we have it added.

I'm sure I will have some questions real soon.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm starting to tinker with the butt blocks tonight. How long do the butt blocks need to be? The plans say 8 inches wide, but it does not give a length. Or do they mean 8 inches long? 8 inches tall?

I am also considering just using fiberglass only. The plans say it can be done either way. Any preference?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:11 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:I'm starting to tinker with the butt blocks tonight. How long do the butt blocks need to be? The plans say 8 inches wide, but it does not give a length. Or do they mean 8 inches long? 8 inches tall?

Thanks,

Casey
What are you joining with the butt blocks? Normally they'd be as long as the panels are wide. 8" would be the width.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
These are for the stringers. Should I just go with fiberglass instead and not use the butt blocks altogether?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I received an answer in Andy's thread. I'm simply going to use the fiberglass and scrap the butt blocks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got two of the stringers spliced together tonight. It went well. I plan to knock out the other two tomorrow night.

I have a question regarding the transom. The plans show two dimensions from the center line that create a small cut out in the back of the transome. The cut out is 39" long by 2 3/8" tall.

To make this cut the plans show two dimensions, one that is 1' 7 1/2" on the outside and 1' 7 1/8" on the inside with a radius of 2" on the inside. Am I to understand that this cut out tapers from the longer distance to the shorter distance with the radius cut gradually crossing both dimensions? It's not very clear to me.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:33 pm
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:I got two of the stringers spliced together tonight. It went well. I plan to knock out the other two tomorrow night.

I have a question regarding the transom. The plans show two dimensions from the center line that create a small cut out in the back of the transome. The cut out is 39" long by 2 3/8" tall.

To make this cut the plans show two dimensions, one that is 1' 7 1/2" on the outside and 1' 7 1/8" on the inside with a radius of 2" on the inside. Am I to understand that this cut out tapers from the longer distance to the shorter distance with the radius cut gradually crossing both dimensions? It's not very clear to me.
If I remember right, that's because the transom is angled back 17 degrees or so(I forget exactly) so the shorter cut lets the top of the transom stay parallel to the top of the shear line. I think that when I cut mine, I angled the saw. If indeed this is what your referring too. If not "never mind".

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
UncleD,

Here is what I am referring to. I'll pull the image back down after I figure it out so as not to leave an image of the transom online. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... at=0&pos=0

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:20 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:I got two of the stringers spliced together tonight. It went well. I plan to knock out the other two tomorrow night.

I have a question regarding the transom. The plans show two dimensions from the center line that create a small cut out in the back of the transome. The cut out is 39" long by 2 3/8" tall.

To make this cut the plans show two dimensions, one that is 1' 7 1/2" on the outside and 1' 7 1/8" on the inside with a radius of 2" on the inside. Am I to understand that this cut out tapers from the longer distance to the shorter distance with the radius cut gradually crossing both dimensions? It's not very clear to me.

Thanks,

Casey
The difference between 1' 7 1/2" and 1' 7 1/8" is 3/8". If you make the 2" radius at 1' 7 1/8" and then roll the top edge at 3/8" the the resultant point would be at 1' 7 1/2". That's what it looks like to me.

Man... it you can hit all those points than you are a great wood worker. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That makes sense. I'll sketch it up on the wood and see if that is where the radius falls.

Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:09 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:That makes sense. I'll sketch it up on the wood and see if that is where the radius falls.

Thank you.
Probably like this:
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:13 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

To get a good 2" radius use a hole saw.
Image

The image as sitandfish has show is good except you really don't need the 3/8" radius the longer dimension should go about tangent to the 2" radius. You could put the 3/8" radius with the sander after you are done cutting so you do't have a sharp corner and it looks pretty too :D .
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:03 am
by sitandfish
SmokyMountain wrote:...The image as sitandfish has show is good except you really don't need the 3/8" radius...
The example is just to show him how the numbers add up. The radius he should use is the radius that he is typically using on the rest of the boat. Like on the edges of the console and around the motor well and around the edge of the cockpit and on the edge of his poling platform and....

Well, you probably get the point? :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:59 am
by Steven
sitandfish wrote:
SmokyMountain wrote:...The image as sitandfish has show is good except you really don't need the 3/8" radius...
The example is just to show him how the numbers add up. The radius he should use is the radius that he is typically using on the rest of the boat. Like on the edges of the console and around the motor well and around the edge of the cockpit and on the edge of his poling platform and....

Well, you probably get the point? :wink:

Agreed. These are older plans and it seems Jacques was putting in a little too much detail. Round it over to whatever looks right.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You guys make sense. Thank you.

Does every square inch of the stringers and bulkheads receive a layer of biaxel cloth? If so, is it easier to epoxy cloth over everything first and then assemble the bulkheads and stringers and glue them into the hull?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:51 pm
by sitandfish
flyfish2743 wrote:You guys make sense. Thank you.

Does every square inch of the stringers and bulkheads receive a layer of biaxel cloth? If so, is it easier to epoxy cloth over everything first and then assemble the bulkheads and stringers and glue them into the hull?
No. Sometimes having cloth between two pieces of wood would be bad (or at least not as good). Glue wood together and then glass over the joined pieces.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:03 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:You guys make sense. Thank you.

Does every square inch of the stringers and bulkheads receive a layer of biaxel cloth? If so, is it easier to epoxy cloth over everything first and then assemble the bulkheads and stringers and glue them into the hull?
No. Assembl and tape everything. Glassing frames is optional. I'm glassing all exposed wood.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:08 pm
by SmokyMountain
Does every square inch of the stringers and bulkheads receive a layer of biaxel cloth?
Look at your lamination schedule. Don't have the sheet number in front of me but it's on a 11x17 sheet. The stingers eventually get glassed to the top, but the main point is to attach them to the hull and bulkheads....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. I checked the lamination schedule and I believe I understand it. However, I don't see anything specific to the transom other then the plans saying "same specs" for the tabbing lamination schedule on one section and "double epoxy fiberglass seams" on another section.

Steven said the following.
Steven wrote:Do you have your transom laminated and your side and bottom panels glued/taped together?
Question 1. Do I need to laminate the transom with cloth on both sides before I set up my stringers and bulkheads?

Question 2. The plans also say to saturate the bulkheads and stringers before installation. Does this mean just the edges, assuming all of the glassing in the boxes will finish saturating the rest of the bulkhead and stringer surfaces?

Question 3. The plans say, "Bow and Transom seams: 2 layers staggered 2 inches." The transom seams make senses but what exactly constitutes the bow seam? I can tell where it starts but where would it end? And by stagger do they mean the 2 layers of 6 inch tape is overlapped in in such a manner that the overall seam is 8 inches in width?

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:17 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Ok. I checked the lamination schedule and I believe I understand it. However, I don't see anything specific to the transom other then the plans saying "same specs" for the tabbing lamination schedule on one section and "double epoxy fiberglass seams" on another section.

Steven said the following.
Steven wrote:Do you have your transom laminated and your side and bottom panels glued/taped together?

Question 1. Do I need to laminate the transom with cloth on both sides before I set up my stringers and bulkheads?

"Nope. All the glass work happens after you get it all stitched together."

Question 2. The plans also say to saturate the bulkheads and stringers before installation. Does this mean just the edges, assuming all of the glassing in the boxes will finish saturating the rest of the bulkhead and stringer surfaces?

You should coat the edges to seal them. You will saturate(pre-wet) areas when you glass. For example. When you are going to tape seams, you coat the area the glass tape will cover, create the fillet, then after the fillet is sufficiently firm, apply the glass. Pre-wetting the wood prevents the wood from soaking epoxy out of the glass. This would cause a weaker lamination.

Question 3. The plans say, "Bow and Transom seams: 2 layers staggered 2 inches." The transom seams make senses but what exactly constitutes the bow seam? I can tell where it starts but where would it end? And by stagger do they mean the 2 layers of 6 inch tape is overlapped in in such a manner that the overall seam is 8 inches in width?

The Bow seam is were the side panels meet to form the bow. The stagger is as you state.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:32 pm
by SmokyMountain
Question 1. Do I need to laminate the transom with cloth on both sides before I set up my stringers and bulkheads?
ANS: I believe Steve is talking about laminating the clamp board onto the transom. :?: I did it a after, but you could do it now too.
You will eventually glass both sides, but you may want to wait for the clamp board...saves a little glass/epoxy
.
Question 2. The plans also say to saturate the bulkheads and stringers before installation. Does this mean just the edges, assuming all of the glassing in the boxes will finish saturating the rest of the bulkhead and stringer surfaces?

ANS: I think that means to put a coat of epoxy on to saturate the wood so you will always have a water barrier since they may not be completely covered in glass. I haven't done that yet :oops: , but will....I was waiting to see what gets glassed... by pre-coating it also ensured you don't starve the fiberglass when epoxying.

Question 3. The plans say, "Bow and Transom seams: 2 layers staggered 2 inches." The transom seams make senses but what exactly constitutes the bow seam? I can tell where it starts but where would it end? And by stagger do they mean the 2 layers of 6 inch tape is overlapped in in such a manner that the overall seam is 8 inches in width?

ANS: I took the meaning of the bow seam to go where the keel flattens out a little past bulkhead B. You are right on the overlap with a total of 8". I used a sharpie marker to make the overlaps.. but I'm a little anal. 8O, but takes the guess work out of it and make glassing quicker.

Once you start it all come together.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you Andrew and Steven for the answers. Very helpful.

I am heading to purchase the zip ties, duct tape and the 1" PVC for stitching the hull. I also have a lot of Popsicle sticks to use as shims.

Anything else I should get?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:12 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Thank you Andrew and Steven for the answers. Very helpful.

I am heading to purchase the zip ties, duct tape and the 1" PVC for stitching the hull. I also have a lot of Popsicle sticks to use as shims.

Anything else I should get?

Thanks,

Casey
Acetone or denatured alchohol for cleanup. I've switched to the alchohol. Seems to work good and isn't as toxic as the acetone. Plastic drop cloth.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Plain old white vinegar will clean any uncured epoxy off tools or your hands, and not nearly as volatile as acetone or alcohol. I do use both for some things, but vinegar will handle most epoxy clean up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Vinegar. Good to know.

Is the 2 inch rigging tube plenty big, or has anybody found that they wish they had steeped it up a bit to 3".

Update


I picked up the zip ties and three 1" pieces of pvc. I cut two of them into 2" pieces and saved the third just in case I need to make more.

I also picked up a Milwaukee hole saw kit to make the radius cuts into the transom. The Porter Cable hole saw I had purchased is pathetic. My forstner bits only go up to 1 7/8ths . I'm taking the Porter Cable bit back.

I also cut several blocks of wood at perfect 90s to jig up the bulkheads and the stringers on my boat stand. Things look good for this coming Thursday when I get to work with my father on stitching up the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:07 pm
by Steven
You will be amazed at how quickly you have an upside down boat hull in the shop. I've used vinegar as well. It does work well and is safer. I just can't stand the smell. I've started using rubbing alcohol to clean epoxy of of me. That works exceedingly well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I can clean my tools and have some salad dressing. Perfect!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That vinegar is the shiznit. It works great. Now I smell like an Italian restaurant.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:21 am
by Steven
I'm not too far from you. I'm happy to stop ny if you need an extra set of hands.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:38 am
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:Vinegar. Good to know.

Is the 2 inch rigging tube plenty big, or has anybody found that they wish they had steeped it up a bit to 3".
I'm going with 3" tubes, one on each side to the back and one to the front, just in case. I one had 4" tube on the ol' baymaster and it was very difficult to change out any thing through it.

Sorry that I didn't understand the transom cut question. I'm putting in a tunnel so I actually raised the clamping area. I just eye-balled the raised radius at the clamping area , but that's just me.

I'm also glad to know about the vinegar. I use acetone for cleaning the rollers and denatured alcohol for wiping surfaces before applying epoxy.

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:53 pm
by TomW
Don and Casey, don't use vinegar for wiping down surfaces it is good only for cleaning. It will leave a residue when wiping down surfaces. After all it is only 5% acid to 95% water good for cleaning. For wiping down, use the alcohol for if you don't want to use the acetone, which is really only nail polish remover. Don't see much difference in the two.

I really get tired of people telling how dangerous acetone is. Bull puppy. Women have been using it more than we ever will all there lives. Keep the space ventilated and wear a the proper mask, which you should be anyway as the wood dust will kill you faster than the acetone will.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Tom, acetone is extremely flammable, vinegar is not. It's toxic to breathe, vinegar is not. It's absorbed through your skin, taking everything it dissolves with it, vinegar does not. Women don't wash their hands with nail polish remover. Vinegar doesn't need a proper mask or good ventillation. Acetone cost $5 a quart, vinegar cost $1.50 a gallon 8)

Agree, don't use it to wipe down wood. I use alcohol for that. Vinegar for body parts, and cleaning epoxy off the dogs :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:37 pm
by sitandfish
Cracker Larry wrote:...Vinegar for body parts, and cleaning epoxy off the dogs :lol:
How did that happen? :doh:

Oh, that's right. It's a dog! :lol: :roll: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Should every piece of wood be wiped down with acetone or alcohol every time before applying epoxy?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, that would be overkill :lol: It should always be de-blushed if it already has epoxy on it, but that only requires water. Alcohol or acetone cleaning is necessary if the surface gets contaminated by grease, oil, kerosene heater residue, greasy hand prints, bird poop, that sort of thing. You also use it, or something similar, for a final cleaning prior to painting. As long as the wood is clean, you don't need to do anything else.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great. All I did when I was splicing the stringers together was wiped the dust out of the pores with a damp cloth after sanding. I waited for any moisture to dry and then I applied epoxy and proceeded with the fiberglass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:17 pm
by TomW
Cracker Larry wrote:Tom, acetone is extremely flammable, vinegar is not. It's toxic to breathe, vinegar is not. It's absorbed through your skin, taking everything it dissolves with it, vinegar does not. Women don't wash their hands with nail polish remover. Vinegar doesn't need a proper mask or good ventillation. Acetone cost $5 a quart, vinegar cost $1.50 a gallon 8)

Agree, don't use it to wipe down wood. I use alcohol for that. Vinegar for body parts, and cleaning epoxy off the dogs :lol:

Larry what did I just say, don't use any Acetone or any chemical without a mask and especially wood fibers. is no more flammable than alchlhol that you still need to have to wipe down the the boat for it's final priming. :wink:

The use of denatured alcohol is just as dangerous as acetone. Look at the MSDS sheets sometimes. I'd rather work in pure acetone than in pure denatured alchol over a period of time. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry what did I just say,
This...
I really get tired of people telling how dangerous acetone is. Bull puppy. Women have been using it more than we ever will all there lives. Keep the space ventilated and wear a the proper mask
And then this..
don't use any Acetone or any chemical without a mask and especially wood fibers. is no more flammable than alchlhol that you still need to have to wipe down the the boat for it's final priming. :wink
The use of denatured alcohol is just as dangerous as acetone. Look at the MSDS sheets sometimes. I'd rather work in pure acetone than in pure denatured alchol over a period of time
Seems a bit contradictory :?: I'm talking about washing your hands and tools, Tom. I don't want nothing that needs an MSDS to wash my hands with.

I'd rather just use vinegar :? That's what I just said. Vinegar. I was only suggesting it for cleaning hands and tools. Don't blow a gasket, I ain't the BWM. No mask, no flames, no intrusion into your blood stream, cheap, food grade.. :doh: Use your acetone and alcohol, OK with me, it could be dangerous to brain cells though, more so than white vinegar I'm sure.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So fellows it sounds like there are a few good options which can be selected based off of your tolerance for smell, safety concern, budget, availability and application. Thank you for the info!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol:
Women have been using it more than we ever will all there lives
I don't know about you and your woman, Tom, but me and mine don't come close :lol: In the last 5 years I've built 4 boats, and rebuilt or repaired 4 more. Got the pics to prove it. In that time I've been through at least 50 gallons of epoxy, got the receipts from Joel to prove that :help: In applying those 50 gallons of epoxy I've scrubbed my hands at least 5,000 times. 10 times a day or more is not uncommon. My wife couldn't come close in 3 lifetimes to using that much solvent, and hers is only on her finger nails, not up to the elbows like I am. Do you really think acetone or alcohol in those quantities would be as safe as vinegar?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:21 pm
by TomW
I don't want nothing that needs an MSDS to wash my hands with.
That's funny :lol: :lol: Denatured Alcohol needs an MSDS sheet as well as White Vinegar. :lol: Any chemical used in industry does. I've read all three of them and acetone is no worse than denatured alcohol or vinegar. They will all kill you in about the same amount of time. 8O Just in different ways. :P

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, I know you've read and done everything. White vinegar is food. It doesn't need an MSDS for anything. Do you use acetone in salad dressing, or make pickles with denatured alcohol :doh: Come on Tom, give it a rest.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
With you gentlemen's permission I will call the cleaning substance portion of the "PH 18 Build in North Dallas" complete. :wink:

Let's start a new topic.

I need a little help understanding the back portion of the boat between the transom and bulkhead E. I'm planning on having the electronics to the trim and troll set up on the port side, the transducer, sump pump and live well/bait well pump in the center and the hydraulic pump and the 2 stroke engine oil tank on the starboard side.

Question 1. Do these compartments need to be independently closed off from one another? I plan to have a hatch for each compartment. The gutters for all three hatches could drain to the middle I suppose.... not sure where they drain actually.

Question 2. Do I need a different sump pump for both the live well and the bail well, or can I get by with only one pump large enough to handle both of them and a couple of valves?

Thanks!!

Casey

P.S. Update: I ordered a lot of ancillary items from Joel today for the boat along with the push pole kit.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:10 am
by Steven
1) In most cases you only need to isolate compartments when you are isolating fuel from electric. Are you planning on having a seperate fuel filter/water trap? It's a wide boat so you could add more partitions to create additonal spaces.

2) I suppose you could use one with valves. Not as convenient as having two switches to seperate pumps though.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:58 am
by SmokyMountain
My thoughts

1. I plan on isolating all my compartments at this time. I am planning on tying the hatch gutters to the cockpit drains that run to the transom.

2. I think two pumps would be better. Look at CL's sump configuration in the builders gallery for a good example.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, 2 pumps. The bilge pump pumps water out the boat and it needs to be a big one, 1500 gph or more. The bait pump pumps water into the boat, it can be much smaller 500-800 gph is plenty for a small well.

I'll help you find the pic...

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Steven - would be honored to have your help. After this weekend with my father I'll see how far we get and maybe we can get together on the glassing of some of the boxes. You can give me a few pointers. I am planning on installing a water/fuel separator. So If I understand you correctly, it will need its own compartment isolated from any electrical, correct?

CrackerLarry - Are you suggesting then a total of three pumps then? One for the bait well. One for the live well and one for the bilge?

Andrew - Are you running the cockpit drainage all the way to the back to the transom and not directly out the side as some have done? They guys on here made a good case for taking the cockpit drainage out the side. However, your plan seems reasonable.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:22 am
by Steven
Correct. You need the fuel separated.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:27 am
by Cracker Larry
CrackerLarry - Are you suggesting then a total of three pumps then? One for the bait well. One for the live well and one for the bilge?
No, not necessarily. I'm sorry, I misunderstood the question :oops: My live well/bait well is one in the same. I only have one well. With 2 wet wells, I don't see any reason not to use 1 pump to feed both, except for maybe redundancy. If you're holding live bass for a tournament, a back up pump might be a good idea. Depends on how much it's worth to you to keep it all alive :lol: Bait can be real expensive or hard to get sometimes also. A bait pump cost $50, but pinfish cost $10 a dozen, and shrimp $30 a quart. I think that if I were going to have 2 wells, I'd use 2 pumps and rig a way to cross them over, where each could back up the other. Might as well T off a wash down hose too :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:08 am
by Uncle D
I think that if I were going to have 2 wells, I'd use 2 pumps and rig a way to cross them over, where each could back up the other. Might as well T off a wash down hose too :wink:
Those are great ideas. Especially the wash down hose. I gut and gill the catch before the run in so that would make cleaning a lot easier. Gosh, I need to start a notebook so I can copy and paste Ideas.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
CL - So I would probably be better served with one bait/live well then huh? I like that idea better anyway... saves me some money and work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't know my friend :doh: Depends on what you need and what you want and what kind of fishing you do. If you're into tournament bass fishing you might need 2 catch tanks, one for each angler. If you're into tournament red fishing, they have rules on the size tank and flows for holding live Reds. Check with the IFA on that. If you use a variety of baits, you might want 2 bait tanks. Pin fish and shrimp don't play well together, crabs don't play well with anyone in the tank. Sometimes I've had shrimp, pin fish, white bait and croakers in the well all at the same time, over night. Needless to say I lose some bait :lol: It would be better to have 2 tanks sometimes, but you have to give up storage. I usually get by just fine with 1 tank myself, but occasionally a second one would be nice. That's when I get out the bucket and the aerator pump :lol:

One more tip on bait tanks, plan the over flows real good. My 1" overflow fitting can't keep up with the 800 gallon bait pump, so I have to valve the pump output down some to keep the tank from overflowing. If any trash clogs the strainer, the tank will overflow. What's important is where it over flows when the drain clogs. The bait well is at the transom port side and I angled the top slightly towards the transom. When the bait well overflows, it runs into the motor well and out the motor well drains. NOT into the cockpit! We often leave the boat in the water over night with a full bait well running. If (not if, but when, it does it all the time) the overflow drain clogs, you do not want that pump filling up the boat all night long 8O I've seen quite a few boats sunk by their own bait pump :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I haven't bait fished in years and probably won't anytime soon. I'm doing the bait well more fore the next guy. I don't plan to sell the boat but if i kicked the bucket I would like for my wife to be able to sell it and that may be something the next guy desires.

However, I would like to try a few bass tournaments and a few red fish tournaments. I'm easily withing driving distance of fishing for both and the primary reason I'm building this boat is for those two species.

So I'll look into the regs for the live well for the reds. Do the bass tournaments only require the fish to be separated? If so maybe the size of the live well is not as critical and I can simply add a temporary divider if I fish a tournament.

Thank you for the pointers on the overflow.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:07 pm
by TomW
I'm with Larry you can get real complicated real fast if your tournament fishing. But the PH18 is made for that. Most of the tournaments are going artificial only now, don't know about the Redfish. So a small 20 gallon baitwell might be just the thing. I also don't do much live bait fishing either.

For the overflow always at least double the size of the inflow of the tanks. If your inflow is 3/4" you want 1 1/2" outflow or 2".

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:50 pm
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:I would like to try a few bass tournaments and a few red fish tournaments.If so maybe the size of the live well is not as critical and I can simply add a temporary divider if I fish a tournament.
Casey, Some of the Red Fish Tourneys do have a size requirement for the live well. Not sure about BASS or others. Might want to research before you build it.

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:24 pm
by MarkOrge
For B.A.S.S.....I am VP/Treasurer of Hawgtown Bassmasters and Treasurer of Ontario Bass Federation Nation, I have seen lots of tournement rules and never seen a minimum size on livewells, but each club/Fed Nation can implement tournement rules of their own easily too. I can tell you that most stick with at least 25 gallon. It is the cause/effect we watch out for - dead fish penalties and proof you can/did identify yours from you non-boaters fish to avoid DQ.

Most prefer a split livewell like what comes with your average factory boat to accomplish this, but lip tags can do the same.

Back to dead fish - up here if we are pulling smallies from 25' and surface temp is hot (75 F +) an insulated livewell helps. At the Team Ontario Qualifier this year on Lake Erie most guys were throwing ice in the livewell in the afternoon.

When I get to that point, my PH18's livewell will be located as suggested in the plans, but wider above the stringers. I'll also be insulating it with min 2" foam from HD (light cheap and we have the room) This will make it better then any factory boat, or better than any marine cooler for that matter (in case I want to fill it with beer and ice when we are camping) I am not going for the split well, I want to keep it simple, and it is the non-boater's resposnibility to identify their fish anyway. Lots of O2 helps too...

Just my 2 cents

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
The Redfish Tour itself doesn't specify, but they say it has to be deemed proper and adequate to hold the catch limit of both contestants. In Florida it has to have a minimum size of 18 gallons.

Edit: note that in Florida the limit is 2 per person, in Georgia it's 5 per person, in SC it's 3 per person. I don't know what the upper gulf coast states limits are, but build it big enough for a 5 fish state :wink:

Rules compliments of http://www.redfishtour.com/2010rules.html
9. BOAT AND MOTOR: All boats must be a minimum of 15 feet in length. Each boat must have all required U.S. Coast Guard safety equipment. In addition, it must have a functional bilge pump and live well space, properly aerated to adequately maintain a live limit catch of Redfish by both contestants. For competitions held in Florida, a minimum live well size of 18 gallons is required. The Tournament Director shall have the sole responsibility for determining whether aeration and capacity is "proper and adequate".
I don't know squat about bass tournaments, but I feel sure they have similar rules.

Edit: My bait well is insulated too. In the summer our water temps get 95 degrees 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:48 pm
by BassMunn
I would suggest 2 pumps per livewell, 1 filler pump on timer and 1 recirculating pump. A filler pump don't work so well when your boat is sitting on the trailer waiting for your weigh in. Attwood do a full recirc kit (500gph) for $23 from Amazon.
When you have 5 big fish in your well you need to be pumping fresh water in often, but when the water surface temp gets too high it's better to switch over to recirc and cool the water with ice (cooler water holds more oxygen). It's better to have the options at a flick of a switch. An insulated livewell is important but doesn't mean much if you're pumping hot water into it.
I lost a tournament 3 years ago because my single livewell pump died half way through the day and I lost 2 of my fish. That $23 pump cost me $2000 in prize money.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:10 pm
by TomW
I'm like you Casey still trying to figure out what size to install. There are 3-5 bass tournaments within 60 miles of here and a Walleye tournament or two also. I'm also going to use one of these. http://www.livebaitlarry.com/index.php? ... r6nm0jkr42 I went to a BASS tournament while I was out in Iowa this year and a lot were using this system, then there were those that were using the fancy OX generators at $500. :lol: Those guys are serious! 8O

The PH can be designed so many ways with tanks it will be hard for you to decide. But I would have at least 1 25gallon, and a 15 gallon. That's 400 lbs of water. I'm leaning towards 1 25 behind my leaning post on my C18. If you want a second tank plumb it forward to the weight will be forward will be in the forward casting deck for the person fishing there to use.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:04 pm
by MarkOrge
Good points. I am going with at least 1 recric and 1 fill, which can be left running and overfill will dump out the side.

Next, I am not sure if they are cheap, and I am also not sure if I like "quick disconnect" anything below the waterline....but these guys look like they have some nice package set ups:

http://www.flow-rite.com/marine

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
A filler pump don't work so well when your boat is sitting on the trailer waiting for your weigh in.
Most of our tournaments require weigh in by water only. Not on a trailer. That's a DSQ around here, too much chance for cheating :wink: That's why every locale and fishing situation has different needs. I have no need of a recirculating system myself, but there are good reasons why you do 8)
An insulated livewell is important but doesn't mean much if you're pumping hot water into it.
When our water temp gets above 90 degrees I put a bag of ice in the bait well, even though using a continuous water flow. The insulation helps a lot and 1 bag of ice lasts all day. So does the bait :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:52 pm
by TomW
Mark I don't like that Flowright set up for one reason. That is that is the the 1 1/8" overflow, that is to small. Larry's 1" doesn't work and an additional 1/8" is not going to be much better. I think you can do much better on your own with Rule pumps and proper sizing of the inlets and outlets. You want at least double the outlet to inlet size from everything I have learned. Here are two sources that can help in providing the things you need. http://www.livebaitlarry.com/index.php http://www.baitwells.com/default.aspx Both have information on how to set up your baitwells and what you might want to do for your boat. Especially LBL.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you guys for all the input on the live well and bait well. I will try to take everything into consideration and come up with a set up that will work for both redfish and bass.

I now have the stringers and bulkheads set up on the boat stand. Things are coming along nicely. My father is here helping me. We are having lots of fun.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:30 pm
by Steven
Lets see some pics.
Happy thanksgiving!!

Re:

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW, And everybody else with some helpful input.

I need your input on your following statement. It's regarding the the reverse chine.
TomW wrote:FF yes inward and upward. Take a gander at the OB15 Gallery on the Main page I believe there is a shot of her head on with the spray rail ending at the bow. Doug's looks about the same.

Either way will work about as well. My way you fill in the gap with epoxy, microfibers and silica to form the shape, his you form the shape with wood. Depends which your more comfortable doing.

Tom
We are preparing to cut out the side panels and the bottom of the boat. How far should the reverse chine extend beyond the bottom of the boat. Were thinking coming down 1.5 inches and back towards the keel at an angle with a distance of about 3 inches. Similar to the OB15 picture found here but with a little more angle back up.

Image

Please let me know what your thoughts are.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:59 pm
by Steven
I don't think you can extend the side panels for the reverse chimes on the ph. I think you add it on after taping the chine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:03 pm
by TomW
Casey there are two ways to form the reverse chine one like your talking about doing and extending the sides panel. The second is by adding the chine to the completed and fiberglassed bottom before painting. Either works well. I like the second method which Side Slippa used on his OD17 and JoeH did on his P19. That way I don't have to mess around with offsize panels on the sides.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:51 pm
by Steven
The other issue with extending the sides is you lose the easy registration of the side to bottom panel alignment. I'm also of the opinion that there might be some design concerns that Jacques or shine might need to address regarding the lamination schedule if you go the route of extending the sides. There would have to be changes to make sure the strength is maintained.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom and Steven,

I'll discussed this part of the design to get a feel for which approach is easier.

We're lengthening the boat about 14 inches at the bow to make it look a little more sleek. It's coming along nicely. We've created a side panel out of 1/2 foam to see how it looks and to get an idea of how to make the adjustment for the revers chime.

Extending the side panels down 2 inches seems to be pretty easy, at least with the foam.

Here is what I found online about the OB18
Building method:
The OB18 can be build as a stitch and glue boat, without any jig or strong backs or in a more traditional manner, on simple molds. The plans provide all the dimensions for either method.
A particularity of this design is the built-in chine concept. Instead of adding a strip of wood at the chine, we designed overlapping panels. This is easier to build and produces a tapered chine much wider than what could be obtained with battens. It is more efficient, stronger and much better looking. This hard reverse angle chine keeps the boat dry even in heavy seas conditions.
Maybe I can draw up what we're thinking as a lamination schedule for the chime in Autocad and can past it up here. It would be nice to see just how they are laying up the chine on the OB18.

I'll try to post up a pick tomorrow as well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:57 am
by AussieBoater
Casey,
I'm building an OB15. If I had the choice, I'd cut your side panels as the plan and add the reverse chines later. It was a real PITA trying to stitch the panels together on my ob15. if the stitches are too tight, you get flat spots in your chine... LOTS of fairing then...:)

Hope this helps, enjoy the stitching, it gets exciting when you start to see a boat appear. Hell... it's all exciting!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:53 am
by TomW
Casey as I said it's just my preference. Taking the side panels down means you need to fill in the back side with a mix of epoxy, fiberglass fibers, woodflour and silica.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good fellows!

Progress is coming along nicely. Do both parchment paper and wax paper serve well as an anti-stick surface for making a smooth finish?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:31 pm
by Steven
I wouldn't use anything with wax. Plastic or peel ply are best.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:26 pm
by TomW
Definately don't use anything with wax unless it is small parts like Richard is doing now. Peel-ply or thin plastic works fine for small areas if you get the wrinkles out of the plastic.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good. What works best for the large areas?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:28 am
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Sounds good. What works best for the large areas?
Peel Ply is the best. Plastic is a "poor mans" peel ply. Frankly, I never found plastic worth the effort. If you use really thick plastic and cut it to the shape of the panels, it would probably work ok.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Wow we had a productive weekend. I got some good pics and hope to have time to throw them up tonight.

Peel Ply sounds like that's what I need to get then. Is there a preferred brand of peel ply?

I have spliced the hull sheets together and have the bottom of the hull stitched together. After the splices dried I can see a handful of air pockets under the epoxy in the fiberglass. Not very many. I also see where the epoxy soaked into the wood and the fiberglass and left some little bitty voids. Were talking tiny little things.

1. Whats the best way to fill the pockets?

2.
I assume I just mix up some more epoxy and fill in the voids. Correct?

Thanks guys.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:28 am
by TomW
Casey best thing for the bubbles is a syringe just stick it in and fill the bubbles.

You might as well buy it from Shine he sells both the West brand and another. Don't be shocked at the price 8O http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=28

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm assuming a sheet of peel ply is a one time use?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:00 pm
by TomW
Yep it soaks up extra epoxy and can come up in peices.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom - I picked up a couple of syringes tonight and plan to order the peel ply on my next Bateau order.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the completed boat stand. It's micro adjustable. I was able to get it level with my garage floor in about 3 mins by using a simple wrench. Worked like a charm. Here is the full picture. It is just the right height to work next to as well as under for stitching. Here is a link to the full pic. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 5720&pos=2

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here she is. As you can see. We have redesigned the bow. It's now about 1.5 feet longer and comes to a sharper point. Here is the full picture. The pic is so large it is cutting off the end with my father. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 5720&pos=1

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the bottom of the bow stitched up. You can see the new shape that is taking form. The reverse chine will come all the way around the bow of the boat and back down the other side. Here is the link to the pic since it is cutting off the side of the pic in the post. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 5720&pos=0



Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:28 am
by TomW
Reduce your pics to 640 x 480 and they will show all on the main forum. That is the limit for it. Otherwise it cuts it off like you have seen.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Great. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:48 am
by Steven
Looking Good!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Steven. I am pleased with the progress so far.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
I ordered the teleflex tilt helm. Received the hydraulic driver yesterday.

Two 8 foot Minn Kota Talons have been ordered for the transom. Both due to arrive in a few weeks.

Blue Seas stuff is up next along with all the wiering harnesses for the motor.

Lowrance HDS is also planned for the console along with the side scan and the sonic hub. We may even go all out and put on Lowrance's new radar. :)

Another Jamestown Distributor order is on the horizon too. Does it ever end?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:48 am
by Cracker Larry
Does it ever end?
Not that I've ever noticed :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
That's what I'm afraid of. Yikes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:11 am
by Cracker Larry
If it does, you'll probably build another boat :wink: It's a sickness.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah... I'm already eying the FS17 for my son. He is only 2.5 yeas old so I have some time to save up for the wood and such. :wink: I'm thinking maybe when he is 8 or so. That would be a lot of fun.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question concerning filleting the chine.

Do I need to epoxy the edges of the wood before I apply the filleting material? I am using SilverTip filleting kit.

If so I suppose I should do the edges tonight because I hope to do some filleting tomorrow night.

Thoughts?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:57 am
by topwater
Precoat edges and fillet wet on wet

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you topwater. Makes sense.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Check it out! The New Phantom 19' 4" with Reverse Chine. :D

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:07 pm
by Brettitt41
Looking good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks!

The transom was put into place tonight and we made sure the boat was level with the world using a laser. We also triple checked the hull for any twist. The design of the boat stand made it very easy to adjust tings level with the world.

The reverse chine needed very few zip ties. I only used 9 on one side and 11 down the other to get the desired gap for the fillet. Now I'm ready to start the fillets.

I also need to round up that the recipe for making the skeg out of epoxy and fillers. I'm wanting to use the same stuff to fill in the reverse chine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:52 am
by wegcagle
Looks good from here.

If you looks at Joel's FS17 build he talks about using a epoxy/fiberglass to make his strakes. Just a word of advice when you mix the epoxy and lots of fiberglass shreds it doesn't make the mixture more gravity resistent, but it does make it really gelatinous and tough to work with. Add wood flour to make it more putty like in consistency. Both the wood flour and the fiberglass chunk makes the end result alot harder/stronger.

Sounds like a good project you've got there. Take lots of good pictures

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:08 pm
by TomW
Shine actually used a mix of epoxy, wood flour, milled fiber, and silica. To much milled fibers can cause it to be lumpy if your not careful. Search his build, I don't think he gave an exact formula. In one of his strakes his helper even put some carbon in to make it black as I recall. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys.

I started a new blog about the boat and my love for fly fishing. I'm going to write several posts about the build and would like to take your best tips and write them into each post. Hopefully it will help future builders and drive more business toward Bateau as well. Here it is. http://www.flyfishingmonk.com I have been working very hard on it. I have not posted yet, only completed the lay out and link structure.

Since I'm preparing to do the fillets next I thought I would start there with my first post. You guys have any pointers for the fillets? Topwater informed me to wet the edges of the wood first before applying the fillet, and to apply wet on wet. Steven taught me the duct tape trick and to apply the tape to the under side to catch the material as well. Anything else?

P.S. You can also sign up to receive emails when I post on the blog. I would love to get your comments and feedback as well. The email sign up is on the first page and is very easy to submit. Just select the topics you want to receive notifications on. Oh yeah.... and it's all about fly fishing. SWEETNESS

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:17 am
by wegcagle
One thing I wish that I had done was to make sure the bow bend has a nice, even, gap. Mine was too tight and now I have a bow dip in that section of the hull. It's mostly just annoying to me, because I know it's there. No one else has even seen it.

The tip I learned (after the fact :x ) was from Fonda. He used the bow mold, stitched it up well, and then the section that was too tight he took a hack saw shaving the edges until it laid down perfectly.

Looking at your pictures, I don't think you have that problem, but it's tough to tell over the internet.

The other thing is how to mix and apply the putty. I personally like Spokaloo's method best. He (and I ) mix the putty consistency material in a kitchen pastry bag, cut the tip, apply the putty, and then throw the bag away

Others like using zip lock bags or even caulking tubes. I think the key is to try all of the ideas, and figure out what works best for you.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:09 am
by Cracker Larry
You guys have any pointers for the fillets? Topwater informed me to wet the edges of the wood first before applying the fillet, and to apply wet on wet. Steven taught me the duct tape trick and to apply the tape to the under side to catch the material as well. Anything else?
Yes, after you make the fillets let them get just a bit tacky, then using a small 1" brush, brush resin on the fillets to smooth them out. This will make them perfectly smooth and save a LOT of sanding. If time permits, go ahead and lay the tape before the fillet cures.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:16 am
by wegcagle
That would've been a good one to know a couple of years ago. :? :lol:

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:54 pm
by Uncle D
Cracker Larry wrote:after you make the fillets let them get just a bit tacky, then using a small 1" brush, brush resin on the fillets to smooth them out. This will make them perfectly smooth and save a LOT of sanding.
wegcagle wrote:That would've been a good one to know a couple of years ago.
I'm glad to know it now.

Casey, When you flip her, you will defiantly need to support that extended bow. I had that problem on my PH. I got a lot pulled out but the advice was too late getting to me before I glued on rubrails. Consequently, I had to do some trimming on the forward bulkheads and the stringers. BTW, it is looking very nice.

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thaks Don!

Can you expound on the following for me just a bit. I don't know if I am totally following.
Uncle D wrote:Casey, When you flip her, you will defiantly need to support that extended bow. Don
Thanks CL. That brush trick sounds like a great idea.

Will. How even of a gap? I'm curious to know if 1/8 inch is too small of a gap or not. If so I can open it up a bit more with a hack saw as you described. What do you mean by bow dip?
wegcagle wrote:One thing I wish that I had done was to make sure the bow bend has a nice, even, gap. Mine was too tight and now I have a bow dip in that section of the hull. It's mostly just annoying to me, because I know it's there. No one else has even seen it. Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm curious to know if 1/8 inch is too small of a gap or not.
No, not at all. Perfect 8)
That brush trick sounds like a great idea.


It works :D I first brush epoxy on the wood and let it soak in some, then build the fillets while that's still wet, then brush out the fillets with more epoxy. For making the fillets, mostly I just use a metal tablespoon. I can fill the joint, pack it in good and shape it with the back of the spoon, and trim the excess glue with the front side of it. Then brush it out smooth as a baby's butt.

Image

If you're going to tape the joint try to do it now while the epoxy on the fillet is still wet, again less sanding and less waste.

Dinner is ready, got to go....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
CL,

I mocked up a practice fillet about 3 inches long to get a feel for what the material was like to work with. It seems pretty easy.

Is now the time to shape the underside of the bow to be a nice uniform point as it tapers from the very tip toward where the bottom panels flatten out. I'm reffering to where both bottom panels come together near the bow. And by point I mean a smooth transition of where the two angels of the bottom panels meet, of course leaving some round over for the fiberglass to lay down smooth.

This is also the area of the boat where I have the 1/8th inch gap. It seems like it would be easy and not require that much fillet material. It's not until it gets flat that the gap opens to 1/4 inch and even 3/8th inch in some areas. In those places of course the transition of the two angles coming together is not much at an and the majority is covered up by the skeg.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Don,

I reread your post and believe I understand what you are referring too. Is the concern here a droop in the bow? Is that what happened to you and why you had to adjust the bulkhead and stringers? Here was your post.
Uncle D wrote:Casey, When you flip her, you will defiantly need to support that extended bow.
Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:52 am
by Cracker Larry
Yes, I think so anyway. Most of these boats will tend to get the droopy bow syndrome if you don't support them and/or use a bow mold. That's why you see so many different sheer lines in boats built from the same plans.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
CL. I sent you a reply just prior to Don's reply as well with a question regarding fillets. Thanks for clarifying the bow question.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:40 am
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:Is the concern here a droop in the bow? Is that what happened to you and why you had to adjust the bulkhead and stringers?
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes, I think so anyway. Most of these boats will tend to get the droopy bow syndrome if you don't support them and/or use a bow mold. That's why you see so many different sheer lines in boats built from the same plans.
Casey, sorry I didn't get back to you, I had left for the day but yes, that was what I was referring to and Larry's explanation hits the nail on the head.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you Uncle D

Does a person have to have a VHF radio on their boat by law? If so can it be a hand held?

I did my first set of fillets today and they worked very well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm making progress.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:27 am
by SmokyMountain
Looking good!! 8) 8).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:00 am
by Uncle D
Very nice Casey. VHF not required, at least nobody here in the Laguna has em' except the offshore guys and even then I don't think it's required. Just smart when offshore. But you are going to need that FM for your favorite tunes. That is necessary for state of mind. :wink:

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Andrew.

Uncle D,

Good call. Gotta have the tunes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The fillets are fun to do.

My Minn-Kota Trim and Troll indicator switch came in today.

Two 8 foot Minn-Kota Talons should arrive next week - one for each side of the poling platform. :D

The wiring diagram is almost complete. The wiring for the engine should arrive next week, along with the control and ignition.

Things are coming along nicely.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:51 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm looking forward to seeing those Talons mounted 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:59 am
by SmokyMountain
'm looking forward to seeing those Talons mounted
Yeah, me too!! 8) I didn't know those existed till you posted. I will more than likely have one on my transom. Looks a lot better than the power pole.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:29 am
by thb
Casey,

Wondering what is the advantage of having two of these expensive mothers on the back end of your boat when one seems like it would do the job nicely based on their website advertising.

Tom in Steinhatchee :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Good question. One will stop the boat. Two will keep it from spinning.

People who use shallow water anchors of this type have found that current or wind will quickly spin the boat around until it is pointing downwind or down current. Two locks it into place.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
The Talons have arrived. They look awesome!

I finished filleting the transom and have started up the chine and center of the hull.

The two part foam arrived today.

Next part to order - jack plate.

All the engine wiring should arrive this week.

I have also started writing for the blog. I don't have the first post up yet but I will soon.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm putting together my order for the Jack Plate. So far I have the jack plate and the gauge. Should I go with a Transom Backing Plate? I assume so to even out the load. The parts are all from Bob's Machine Shop. So far I haven't found the bolt kit on their webiste though. Anyone have a link to it?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:43 am
by Cracker Larry
Casey, I made my own backing plate, I'd either make it or buy it, but you will want it. The bolts for engine mounting were included when I bought my Bob's jack plate. Here is the link for the others..
http://www.bobsmachine.com/Products/jac ... oltKit.cfm

You do know that Joel here sells Bob's jack plates at 10% less than the Bob's website don't you :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yes sir I sure do. I'm picking the items up from Joel. I'm just usig their site for education.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I tried using a RotoZip to widen a few of the gaps on the hull for the fillets. It worked great. Hold on tight! It can get away from you.

I ordered the jack plate from Joel today.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:28 am
by Uncle D
Casey, sound like you pretty much have most everything together. How's the boat building coming along.

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Don,

Thanks for asking.

It's coming along. I have been prepping the bow for the fillets trying to get everything to lay down nice along the transition. The transom is now fully filleted on the outside and part of the chine has been tabbed.

I'm now running a string from the transom to the very tip of the bow to get a visual of how straight things look. I used a laser to make sure there was no twist in the hull.

Slowely but surly!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today I purchased at a good price a Lowrance HDS 10, a StructureScan, four transducers and a nice West Marine VHF650 marine radio. All of these items were slightly used but were still in their boxes. Crigslist rocks.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:24 pm
by BassMunn
Nice - That HDS-10 with the LSS-1 module is incredible. It's like watching high def TV of what's below (and to the side)of your boat 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn -Yeah, I can't wait to tinker with it. I hope to over Christmas.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hey Fellows - I wrote my first blog post on my new blog, http://www.flyfishingmonk.com.

The post is "How to Build a Micro-Adjustable Boat Stand in 6 Easy Steps. Here is the post.

Here is the stand. Let me know what you think.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:05 pm
by Uncle D
I started not to send this but only want to help if I can.

Image
Leveling nuts at the back mid and forward sections of the strongback along the length beam supports.
Image
This is the reason I have the "droopy bow syndrome". Never supported the bow till after the inside was glassed and rubrails were on.
Image
Here I added a support under the forward bulkhead then a cradle under the bow rubrails to straighten the droop as much as possible. I don't have a pic of the strongback by it's self, but you can get a general idea of it.

The reason I'm showing you this is when I first built the strongback and the hull was upside down for stitch and glue, and I just had 2x4x8's across the leveling rails. All this worked fine. For the flip right side up, I cut cradles using the bulkheads as patterns for the cross supports using 2x6's and 2x8's at the bulkhead locations. I also laid these across the leveling rails of the strongback. Now here was the problem...the cradles had the hull up too high. It became too hard to do work on the inside leaning over and I'm 6"-4". I finally had to cut the cradles down to fit between the leveling rails so I could drop everything down as low as possible.

Please don't get wrong, yours looks very good. Just want to share my experience with all the plus and minuses.

Merry Christmas
Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:I started not to send this but only want to help if I can.
Don,

Please, always let me know what's on your mind. I don't want to miss any steps or pass up any good tips from you and the other fellows.

This is great feedback. Exactly what I needed to help me plan for the flip. I'll make sure to shore up the bow section and get the boat low to the ground as you have advised.

So far the filleting is coming along nicely. I'm really enjoying the build.

All of the wiring for my engine came in yesterday.

Thanks again and keep the good input coming my way.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm looking for some input regarding an additional spray rail, as seen on the flats boat in the upper right hand picture on the following website.

http://www.texasflyfishingnews.com/

Notice the black additional rail just under the rub rail. I have modified my hull with a reverse chine. However, I'm considering something similar, only more custom and matching the boats color.

What are your guys' thoughts?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:55 pm
by TomW
Casey not sure what picture your directing us to look at could you bring it up on here.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:40 pm
by Steven
Kinda ugly. Not sure you'll need it with the reverse chimes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, it's a gimmick. A good hull won't need that.

Merry Christmas :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:41 am
by TomW
Image

Is this the one your directing us to. Then no way It's to high for a spray rail on the PH18. If you want one put it 2-3" above the water line so when your on plane it is 5-6" above the waterline. That is the only way it would really be effective on the PH18. Run it from the transom about 12-14' forward. You don't need to take it all the way to the bow unless you want to. You'll also want a minimum 1" wide, 1 1/2 is better. Otherwise no need to do it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys for the input. That's the one I was referring to Tom.

I keep seeing similar modifications to various flats boats out there. I spoke to one of my friends yesterday who has owned five different flats boats and his first suggestion was to add some type of spray rail as seen in the photos.

The deck of my boat is already going to come out over the edge of the hull and then there will be a lip under the edge to give me something for the rub rail to install into. This may serve to reduce some spray as well.

Decesions decesions....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I'm using BlueSea Weather Deck switches and they're only rated to 15 amps, both the breaker and the fuse style.

Do you guys know of a good relay or solenoid switch I can use for the shallow water anchors? They each require a 30 amp fuse and I would like to control them from the Weather Deck but will need some type of 30 amp relay switch that is controlled by the switch on the weather deck.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:10 pm
by TomW
Casey I looked at the Installation Instructions for the Talon's today, something bothered me when you said you wanted to control them from the weather deck. You don't need another switch or fuse. They come with the inline 30A fuse and you connect them directly to the main battery switch so they are on once you turn the main power on. There is also a green wire that goes to the ingnition switch that sounds a warning horn if you start the boat while they are deployed.

BlueSeas makes 30 or 40A switches if you still want to control them from the weather deck but it isn't necessary. Look for an anchor windlass switch or a toggle switch/w boot that will meet your needs. It is an extra couple of connetions you have to make that introduce ineffiency into the circuit and be prone to failure.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW,

Thanks for the help. I'm following what you're saying and familiar with the horn. However, the reason I'm interested in the switch is to totally shut the power off to the anchors all together. Here's why.

The horn honks when the anchor is deployed. But the user could accidentally deploy the unit while cruising and really do some damage. I don't think the horn helps in this situation and if it did beep it may be hard to hear. I can see the remote going into my pocket and getting triggered. Those little things always get jostled around and triggered (think car alarm here).

So that's why I'm interested in the switch. Then I can be a little more intentional when I'm ready to use them. And if I'm going to traverse a few miles of water I won't have to worry about the remote getting triggered.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:33 am
by TomW
I hear what your saying on the accidental deployment. :oops: The main thing would be to make sure you use the same size wire that is on the Anchors to the switch and keep the run as short as possible. I'd go to the BlueSea or Anchor sites and find the switch you want then try to find it on the web with a search. I looked at Jamestown Marine fast for you and didn't see anything that would fit your needs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
I will try both of those manufacturers. Thank you sir. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:10 am
by pole-position
Steven wrote:Kinda ugly. Not sure you'll need it with the reverse chimes.


Can someone please direct me to where in this, or any other thread, that tells how you made the reverse chines? Thanks in advance for y'alls' help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:40 am
by Cracker Larry
If you need a solenoid, I think they would probably supply it. If not, when I've needed them in the past for winches and such I just get a generic starter solenoid from NAPA or Western Auto. A riding lawnmower size would work fine, cost about $12.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Pole-position,

I made the reverse chine by allowing the sides of the boat to drop below the bottom of the hull by about 2 inches. Now I'll go back and fill in the chime with epoxy. However, I may build it up with some wood first then finish off with epoxy.

I hope this answer helped some. If not, I'm sure we can clarify for you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:01 pm
by pole-position
^
thanks for the reply---after several searches, there seems to be more than one way to skin this cat though this method seems to be the easiest. Wonder if you could use scrap pieces of foam core in order to save a little weight / add a little strength ( ??? )

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - thanks, I just saw your reply.

Pole-position - not to sure if strength will be a problem. Consider the thing when it's done will be one long triangular beam with fiberglass on three sides. As for the weight savings, may save a little.

Maybe someone will chime in on that point. I have not worked with foam, but I like the sound of it. I wonder if you could fill it with a little 2 part foam, cut the excess and then glass over the top of that.

Maybe Larry or Tom will chime in. I think Ken is familar with the foam as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
I wouldn't use foam. The chine area gets a lot of contact with the bottom, and foam isn't good at impact resistance. I'd mold them out of epoxy and glass. Or glass covered wood.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That's kinda what I was just thinking in my head. It seems like a place that takes some abuse.

I just snapped a pic of what I have going on with the chine. Maybe it will be of help for Pole-Position. I think I will go the glass covered wood route.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:58 pm
by sds
That's kinda what I was just thinking in my head. It seems like a place that takes some abuse.
That being the concern, I'm curious how you plan to glass that chine joint? As is, you can't really complete a smooth, radius tape joint.

I'd say definitely any filler needs to be structural, and you probably want to get Jacques' approval on your scantling plan.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm planning on building it up first and then glassing over it, taking the glass from the bottom panel, over the reverse chine, and then up the side. The inside will be glassed like normal.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:13 pm
by sds
Should work, as long as you match the spec'd scantlings around the ply edge. What that would entail is beyond me. I don't think you want the chine joint to depend on the side panel not delaminating. I'd get Jacques' approval.

cheers, Scott

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:04 pm
by AussieBoater
flyfish2743 wrote:I'm planning on building it up first and then glassing over it, taking the glass from the bottom panel, over the reverse chine, and then up the side. The inside will be glassed like normal.
That is the method used on the OB15, as designed by Jacques. mine has tape (6") over the chine/join, then glassed over with cloth.
Casey, I was thinking 2" seems high. I'm not sure of your deadrise, use a level and check how wide your chine will be. Side Slippa built his OB17 with the same chine, his ended up roughly 3" wide. The chine on my OB15 is about 3" wide, I think it was roughly 1.25" high.

just a thought...

Paul

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Paul and Scott,

I was using some OB pics as a gauge. Getting input from you and others as to the height is helpful. I'm right at 1 and 5/8ths inches at the back and will taper down a tad toward the bow, so I assume I'm ok.

We cut three different triangular blocks as gauges and set them on the bottom of the hull to get a feel for the dimensions. We then selected the one that "looked" right.

However, it may be to tall.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:42 pm
by pole-position
thanks for posting the pics, flyfish; I am sure I and others would be appreciative of your posting additional pics of your progress so idiots like me can figure out how to do it properly. Also, I would also like to see how you're doing your gunnels as this is what I would like to do ie extend the rubrail @ 3" past the sides on the outside....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet. I sure will. I'm also posting up stuff on my blog. I just posted on building a boat stand and another post about working with fillet material. Did you buy your plans yet?

As for making the gunnels a little larger, I plan to do this as well. I'm simply going to extend the deck out over the edge 3 inches and then add two more pieces of ply underneath to build up a surface.

This will give me something to install the rub rail into and give me a little more guard for the spray. However, I'm going to round the edge underneath like an inverted "U" (a little different than what is show in the pic) to help curve the spray back downward. Ken suggested the "U" after he saw my pic.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:45 am
by TomW
Casey since the rubber rubrail rests on the bottom wood peice I would also carry it into the side of the boat. This will give you a much stronger rubrail construction and there will not be any gap for dirt or grime to get up inbetween that bottom peice and the hull. You really want to avoid those if you can. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

Makes sense. I'll try to work up a new cross section and put it up for review.

Thank you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Has anybody else used a Roto-Zip for opening the gap between two panels for filleting? It works great.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:32 pm
by topwater
Yes i have.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I knew there was a good reason to have that tool. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Amazing temp here in Dallas. I get to work on the boat allllll weekend long.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:20 pm
by tobolamr
You have? So where are the pictures? :lol: We'd love to see your progress!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr - here you go.

Plum bob for center-line. I used dry fly hooks, size 18, and beads strung on a line that marked my center-line from the transom to the tip of the bow.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Here I am Roto Zipping the center line of the hull. The panels were touching in a couple of places.
As seen in the pics, I installed a vac hose right above the boat, as well as an extension cord and 14 florescent lights.

Image

I'm also tracking progress on my blog. http://www.flyfishingmonk.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:30 pm
by tobolamr
Really good idea on the Plumb Bob rig - I had never even fathomed such a thing... Now I'm adding that to my "list of things to make the boat build easier" :lol: Looking good! Do you have to wear shades with all that light?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks! I kept wondering how will I ever check the panels for a perfect center line. Since I love tying flys I thought hey... miniature plum bobs!

As for the light, it is bright. I love working in a bright shop. It's bright enough that I can crawl under the boat to work on the underside for the stitching and not require a light.

I'm getting ready to post up our designs for the center console and the wiring diagrams next. They are still in concept form now but they are about 95% complete as drawings.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is my conduit diagram. I still plan to put another one or two conduits toward the front (one for a transducer and one for a second HDS unit). I didn't want to scale these down any because you would not be able to see the detail.

I've followed that up with a pic of the console. I have side views of the console as well as a wiring diagram. I was going to post them but either my web is way slow tonight or the builder gallery is not working properly. If you click on one of the pic URLs you'll see the other pics. They uploaded but then they got real slow.

We're prob looking at moving the gauges up and next to one another and then spacing the jack plate gauge beneath them. Our plan is to build the console out of plywood as a template and then build the real console out of the marine grade ply. My father has worked up all of these drawings for me on his Autocad.

All electrical is Lowrance and Evinrude stuff.

Feedback welcome. Let me know if I need to change anything or if I missed anything. Thanks!

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... at=0&pos=5
Image
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... 5720&pos=2
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:55 am
by tech_support
In quickly[*] looking through your sketchs of the console, i cant see anything that pops out as unworkable. Hydraulic steering makes fitting things in a tight space a lot easier than cables.

I did not see it from the drawing, but I suppose you have a dedicated chase for the fuel line?

BTW, I think your jackplate shipped out last week :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Joel for looking things over.

Yes, we do have a dedicated chase tube for the hydraulic lines. We have the sport tilt steering with a SeaStar hydraulic cylinder as well. The chase tube is a single line going straight back toward the transom from the console and is not thick like the others. It's a 2" chase and is shown coming up directly under the control.

Thanks again for looking over this.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:03 pm
by Uncle D
Lookin' good Casey. Glad you got a lot of time on her.

Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:31 pm
by sitandfish
shine wrote:...I did not see it from the drawing, but I suppose you have a dedicated chase for the fuel line?...
flyfish2743 wrote:Thanks Joel for looking things over.

Yes, we do have a dedicated chase tube for the hydraulic lines...
Just double checking because, I'm not sure you answered Joel's question and I don't know where your fuel tank is going to be. As he said, "I suppose you have a dedicated chase for the fuel line?" :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sitandfish,

Opps....I misread his post. Thanks for pointing it out.

There are two tanks in the front of the boat between bulkheads A and B. The fuel line chase tube is not show on the diagram, just the electrical chase tubes and the one line showing the engine control. I'm thinking of placing it up high just under the gunnel but haven't thought it through yet. Any thoughts?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of the reverse chine.

I'm using a long batten, that's a little thicker than the hull, clamped adjacent to the reverse chine to remove any flat spots.
I tabbed the hull first, then clamped that batten to the chine. The thinner hull material took on the nicer curve of the batten. There was one small flat spot where the two panels were spliced together. A couple other spots looked suspicious too. It seems to have done the trick.

Because of the reverse chine, the hull required very few stitches down the side, one every couple of feet or so. We placed a few spacers between the bottom panels and the sides and then added a few Popsicle sticks to get the side panels within a tolerance of 1/8th inch or so off the center line of the boat.

I'll continue to use the batten as I work my way around the hull. So far I'm diggin' this reverse chine.

Note on the last photo with the clamps. It appears that there is a flat spot or a dip but what you're seeing is the edge of the clamp hanging over the batten.

Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
The jack plate arrived today. It's a nice piece of equipment.

The Lowrance SonicHub also came in. Very cool.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Anyone near Beaufort SC interested in a day of fishing for reds?

So I'm getting ready to have my second child in April and my wife and I are going to get away for a few days in Beaufort SC. She calls it a Babymoon. She wants to spend one day at the spa and told me to go fishing!

So I'm curious to know if anybody wants to try to get away for a half day or a day of fishing for reds. She's thinking to plan her day at the spa on Feb 3rd or 4th.

Any interest?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:08 am
by Cracker Larry
I'd be glad to take you fishing Casey. That time of year has about the worst weather possible, but if we can get a decent day I'm up for it 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

Fishing with you would be great! My wife booked a hotel there in Beaufort, something with good reviews but not quite sure where. We'll be driving into town. If the weather is not suitable for fishing maybe we can still catch lunch and talk boats. But man it would be great it we could hook into some fish.

I only own fly fishing gear... and lots of it. Multiple weight rods, floating lines, sinking lines, sink-tip lines and can tie up some flies as well. I also have a lot of cold weather fishing clothing. My schedule the 3rd or the 4th is pretty flexible.

Let me know what you have in mind.

Sincerely,

Casey

P.S. I told my wife Cracker Larry responded and she grinned and was like, "Crakcer Larry, I recognize that name from your conversations on the forum." Yeah, you Tom and the others are pretty famous around here. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:40 pm
by TomW
Is that famous or infamous? :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Are you driving from Dallas, TX to Beaufort, SC with a pregnant woman, just to get away for a few days 8O Dang, I'll really have to try to find some fish after all that :help: If it ain't sleeting and it's above freezing, we'll get out on No Excuse and chase some reds.

A fly rod is good this time of year when the fish are spooky. Anything from 7-9 wt. WF floating line, clousers, deceivers, that sort of fly. I'll bring spinning rods too. Fishing will be tough, but not impossible :D Catching fish on the other hand..well, ya picked the worst possible month of the year but we'll see what we can do. We don't have to actually catch one to have a good time, do we, but we might catch a few :lol:

If you aren't locked in to a hotel, there is a nice, funky little waterfront Bed and Breakfast that Mrs. Cracker and I stay in sometimes. We like it, and it's a different experience from a hotel, old south if you like that sort of place... http://www.beaulieuhouse.com/

I'll block off the 3rd and 4th, and we'll pick the best weather day as the time gets closer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That reminds me of the classic movie, The Three Amigos and the infamous El Guapo.

Enjoy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGtHhAfe8w

On a side note. I have one chine tabbed to the bottom of the hull. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - just saw your message. Some how I over looked it earlier.

Sounds great. You know what they say, "A bad day on the water is better than a good day..."
I've been skunked plenty of times and still love every min of it. Just hanging out and checking out this boat of yours will be half the fun.

As for the travel, we're actually flying into Jacksonville, FL and then driving up. That was the closest we could get to Beaufort on Southwest. We had a couple $50 tickets.

As for the bed and breakfast, I would prefer to go that route over the hotel any day. However, were keeping an eye on the budget. Something about saving for the kid's college yadda yadda yadda... :wink: I would love to stay in that place. It looks great! Hopefully next time.

I'll bring along an 8 and a 9 weight and load up on the flys. This is gonna be awesome. I must warn you in advance. I'll prob ask you a million questions about boat building.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:09 am
by Cracker Larry
Sounds good Casey, it's a short ride up from J-ville, maybe 3 hours. Sun is finally shining today and I'm going to try to find some fish :D

I'll send you a PM with my contact info. Looking forward to it 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry! Good luck on the water. Enjoy the sun.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Progress Report.

I've filleted most of the chine on both sides and have 15 small places to fill where the zip ties were. Next I'll start the center line fillet.

I've also started working with the scrap ply, shaping it to fill the reverse chine. Things are coming along nicely.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:37 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

Sound like you are making good progress. A word of advice, don't get all excited and rush the keel, I had a small dip at around bulkhead D that I didn't notice until it was too late. I fixed it with some extra glass laminations, but a 2x4 pushing it up a 1/8" would have fixed the problem.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew,

Thanks for the heads up. I will keep a close eye on it.

Here is what the reverse chine is looking like so far.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I'm looking to shortening the skeg to maybe 1/2 inch instead of 1 1/2 inches to decrease draft and then adding 2 or 4 strakes. I've also added the reverse chines.

Don gave me some feedback. He's eliminating his skeg all together to minimize draft. Does anyone else have any feedback? Thoughts? Concerns?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:50 pm
by TomW
I'd keep the skeg on the boat as designed Casey. The skeg on your motor is going to be lower than the skeg on the boat anyway. :wink: Forget the strakes altogether unless your going to be running 50 or more most of the time, as CL pointed out on another post they are on production boats as stiffeners, It will make the boat easier to fair also.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

I'm concerned with draft (while poling) and hole shot. Speed is not a concern.

Looking at my hull in the garage, and again at the plans, it appears that the V goes down some in front of the skeg before the hull starts to come back up to the transom. But it doesn't come all the way down past the skeg.

What if I just evened off the skeg to the same depth as the deepest point on the V? This would set the skeg at its full depth for the last one foot and then gradually taper into the hull over the next 4 feet, setting it flush with the hull's deepest point around bulkhead C. I drew on my plans the depth of the new skeg.

Will the two reverse chines that drop down 1.5 inches on each side not play some kind of role that the skeg plays in stabilizing the boat at higher speeds? What is the adverse effect of eliminating it all together?

Sincerely, Casey

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:35 am
by tobolamr
flyfish2743 wrote:What is the adverse effect of eliminating it all together?
VERY good question... And to add to that question: If you didn't use the skeg, would you then be inviting chine walking with those reverse chines without the skeg? :doh: From what I understand, no skeg & no strakes or reverse chine means you will slide in turns - which even my production bass boat does. I'm very interested in the answers from those "in the know" on this one!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:44 am
by TomW
Let's start at the top:

Poling, is 1 1/2 inches really going to take you away from fish? Everybody answers yes of course but, really! There are very few production boats that can draft 7 1/2" and then you pay for them. 8O Or they are more like the FS18.

Hole shot, your motor will be lower than it is anyway!

The forward hump in the keel I beleive is an optical illusion on the plans. You would have had to cut the stringers to a different shape instead of straight to make that shape forward of frame C. The boat would also plow and be ineffiecent coming up on plane. So put a straight edge on the plans and your keel. I won't recommend reducing it.

The reverse chines will help some. Eliminating it altogether will mean slowing down a lot on turns. Well at least to what your comfortable sliding around with. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:15 am
by Cracker Larry
I agree with Tom on all counts. I'd build it with the skeg just as it's designed, and no strakes, as designed. The designer really does know what he's doing. If it needed strakes he would recommend them, and if it didn't perform better with a skeg he would not have put it on the plans. Most production boats would have a skeg but they are hard to mold, which is why they don't.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:24 am
by Prarie Dog
I'm with Tom and CL on the strake issue. That phantom should be a fast boat and you need it to track in corners. You can take it from me that passengers will say some really rude stuff when the boat is trying to slide up under a Live Oak or into the bank. Puts a damper on the fun and gets the adrenaline going. That skeg might also help the boat track while you are poling it and they are absolutely right about fairing around strakes. It is a pain in the a%%.
Regards, Paul

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:50 am
by tech_support
Will the two reverse chines that drop down 1.5 inches on each side not play some kind of role that the skeg plays in stabilizing the boat at higher speeds? What is the adverse effect of eliminating it all together?
yes, they will help with turning, quite a bit - while on plane. They wont do anything when turning/docking.

With your chine flats and a couple of strakes, your phantom will turn as well as a boat like this able to. If you can live with a couple extra inches of draft, a skeg is nice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good folks. Thanks for all the feedback. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
As a point of clarification.... or maybe just semantics. I'm still learning these boat terms. :)
TomW wrote:
The forward hump in the keel I believe is an optical illusion on the plans. You would have had to cut the stringers to a different shape instead of straight to make that shape forward of frame C. The boat would also plow and be inefficient coming up on plane. So put a straight edge on the plans and your keel. I won't recommend reducing it.
Tom,

I think what dictates how deep the V of the hull is around bulkhead C is not the stringers but the angle of the V itself, which is determined by the height of the bulkhead on its center point.

What I mean by dip is there is a general decline of the keel starting from the bottom of the transom, which is 11 1/2 inches tall, then gradually sloping downward toward bulkhead C, which is 2 feet tall, and then back up towards the tip of the bow.

So this optical illusion is indeed a decline of 1/2 inches from the transom to bulkhead C and then back up.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:18 pm
by TomW
Have you laid a staight edge on the plans? There is no dip on the study plans large drawing and they are taken straight from the plans after Jacques has drafted them and is finishing them up. It just doesn't make sense design wise Casey for Jacques to have distorted the front of the boat that way when it should be the cleanest part when entering the water. It would cause numerous problems.

There is no dip in this boat:

Image

or clearly on this one:

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:30 pm
by Doc_Dyer
TomW,

You can not see what he talking about in those photos

You can only see it on an upside down phantom hull

It looks like the way the hull is stitched that there is a hump in the bow
It may be an optical illusion... None the less

Look at Andrews pictuesc

Bradley

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

What Bradey is calling a hump on the inverted hull I am calling a dip on the plans. And by dip I mean the lowest point. I also have a scaled model of the boat and it indeed has a hump/dip as well.
Doc_Dyer wrote:It looks like the way the hull is stitched that there is a hump in the bow
It may be an optical illusion... None the less
In reference to the following question.
TomW wrote:Have you laid a straight edge on the plans?
I started out with a straight edge on the plans. I measured down from the water line to the lowest point of the hull and then measured down from the waterline to the bottom of the transom and drew a straight line through the skeg. That is how I ended up with the first photo I put a few posts back. I checked it three times to see if I was parallel with the waterline.

I inserted the photo again.The lowest point below the waterline on the plans appears to be at bulkhead C, which jives with the following bulkhead dimensions. Notice the deepest bulkhead being C and that E gets even shallower and then it drops again toward the transom.

A at height at center of bulkhead is 21 1/4"
B at 23 7/8"
C at 24"
D at 23 1/8"
E at 22 3/4"
T at 23 1/2"

This is how it also looks on the physical boat on my stand. It looks as if the lowest point is indeed bulkhead C, with the exception of the skeg dropping below this 1 inch or so.

Notice that the line cutting through the skeg is parallel to the water line.

But then again.... maybe I'm looney. :P

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:52 am
by TomW
A at height at center of bulkhead is 21 1/4"
B at 23 7/8"
C at 24"
D at 23 1/8"
E at 22 3/4"
T at 23 1/2"
Casey I see where your going wrong. Your not taking into account the change in height of the gunnel from the transom to the bow. To get the correct level of the keel measure to the baseline. That is what it is for. Nothing else really matters. Your pushing down and it's the gunnel that should be moving up. :D

I can tell your not taking the slope of the gunnel into account as you show B at 23 7/8 and A at 21 1/4.

The other way to do it is to draw a straight line through the keel and measure down from the bottom of the gunnel boards. It works I just did it with an architectural ruler, found the scale of the scale drawing in the study plans and your numbers and ran it. I can get within less than an 1/8" doing that. There is a definite slope from bow to transom. Not much but a total of about 4", if you measure down from the bow to the keel line and compare to the transom. That's less than a 1/4" a 1'.

Hope this makes sense now.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Tom,

I'm not measuring form the gunnel down though. I did see the slope in the gunnel from the bow to the transom, however it is above the water line. I'm using the waterline and measuring down to the bottom of the hull at bulkhead C and then again at the transom and there is a definite slope back upwards. Make sense?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:45 am
by TomW
Gottcha! Jacques has said in prior posts never to use waterlines to measure, they are randomly drawn line and may or may not be straight. I have 7 plans now and I doubt if more than 3 have waterlines on them. Always use points on the boat. That is why I was having trouble with the numbers you were coming up with as I have the same drawing you are using and everything is fine using the bottom of the gunnels to the keel. :wink:

You said you were off a 1/2" that can very easily be introduced by an iaccurately drawn waterline. So let's forget the waterline and check it using the Baseline or draw a straight line along the keel and meaasure down from the gunnel on that picture

The waterline has no bearing in building your boat 8) .

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent! That is where I was headed with my next question which was going to be, "Is the waterline accurate?" but I didn't want to sound like a terd questioning drawings that have been out for several years. I thought something looked funny.

So should it pretty much be a straight line from the bottom of C back to the Transom because I'm still confused with bulkhead E being so much shorter than D and T. It seems like it would cause an upward arc in the hull between D and T if I force the hull to rest the same distance off of all three bulkheads.

When I apply even pressure on the bottom of the stitch between C, and all the way back to T, the result is a nice fair line all the way down the keel. If I pull down on the hull to rest an even 1/8 inch distance off of the center point of all the bulkheads then I result in an upward arc into the hull between D and T.

Do I make any sense? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:55 pm
by TomW
Sounds like E is shorter for when you flip it and you didn't quite get it in the right spot when you put it on the frame. These things happen. :D The keel should be even and straight, like you have it. :D Stitch it that way, get some tape on to lock it in and then do your fiberglassing. The other option would be take off the bottom wood and raise frame E, I don't think you need to do that as long as everything is straight and level with no dips at frame E, or get underneat and shim it to height at frame E.

The only concern you have right now it the bottom of the boat. You want it as fair as you can get it so you don't have to do a lot of fairing and sanding. The keel should be straight, the panels should lay flat and smooth and fair. They should make nice clean bends at the front approach to the bow. Don't worry about the height of frames or anything else they come out when you flip it to fiberglass the inside and you can correct any mistakes or find out why they are what they are then. I purposely made all mine oversize as I have two side panels and did not know what the alignment would be in the end. I'll cut them to height later.

Hope this all makes sense

Dang it I'm getting more snow! :lol: You want some? :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:42 pm
by Doc_Dyer
SmokyMountain wrote:
A view from the stern. You'll notice a dip right past the panel splice. 8O (Between bulkheads D & E) I'm going to scribe around the low area and cut some extra fiber glass to fill that area. I'll probably do that a couple of times and then fair (within that area) using wood/ silica to get it close before using faring compound. (Want that area to be strong for attaching the skeg.) This could have be avoided if I took the time like Joe did and noticed it :oops: I was just too excited to be tabbing the boat. A 2x4 support would have fixed it.....

Image

Andrew
Bradley

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:31 pm
by TomW
Thanks Doc! 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom and Bradley,

I'm sure the bulkheads are resting properly because I have them on the same straight back and leveled with a laser and traditional bubble levels. I have already shimmed. It took very little and this made the keel nice and true. Looks like I'm good to go. I will double check everything and proceed with tabbing the keel.

It's just odd that the bulkheads do that, and obviously on more than one hull. :doh:

New Question: Do I need to double wrap the splices on the stringers with biaxel fiberglass before I glue them into the hull or is just one wrap on both sides sufficient?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:25 pm
by TomW
That will happen after the flip and just follow the plans, otherwise you'll end up way over the required amount of stuff you need. Your lamination schedule will tell you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:27 pm
by Steven
Had that same type of dip on by GV11 and OB19. Thought I did better on the OB of shimming it before gluing. Still had to fair a dip there. No big deal though.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

Did the bulkhead look a lil short?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:18 pm
by Steven
I don't recall thinking that. Read enough posts where small dips had to be faired out and didn't give it much thought. I added a few layers of 6 oz. cloth in the dip and then faired over it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. Well I'm approaching that section of the hull so I hope I get it right. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
I just finished the third post for my fly fishing blog. Hopefully some future builder will find it helpful.

The blog is flyfishingmonk.com.

The tag line is Praying You Catch Many Large Fish. :lol:

Here's the article and it has some pictures of the progress. Cutting Out The Hull Panels on Your Flats Boat

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Questions about transducers.

So I'm putting three transducers on my boat. One for the front, one for the back with a water temp sensor and one that mounts to the bottom of the jack plate for the side scan sonar.

I assume the time to cut holes in the hull and fill them with epoxy is now, before I fiberglass the outside of the hull. Is this correct? Where would the best place to locate these transducers? I'm thinking one just to the side of the skeg, maybe 8 inches to the side, toward the very back. And the one up front being just in front of bulkhead B.

Thoughts? Advice.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:37 pm
by TomW
Sounds like a plan Casey. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So is that a green light... thumbs up?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, the time to do it is now. You'll want to have every hole in the boat drilled, filled and re-drilled before you prime and paint. Otherwise you'll just screw up your paint :wink:

I'm going out in the morning and do some redfish scouting. It's still cold, low 20's tonight and maybe 50 tomorrow, but Raymond and I are going to bundle up and see if we can find some fish :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sweet! I hope you get into some! I can't wait to get out there in Feb. It's just around the corner. I hope to buy your lunch and pick your brain for a lil while about some ideas for the boat. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm building some fairing boards.

So I purchased one 4" x 36" 80 grit belt and one 4" x 36" 120 grit for making fairing boards. My next task is to fair the splices in preparation for the fiberglass.

I also purchased one 4" x 24" 120 grit belt for making a smaller board. For handles I picked out comfortable cabnit handles, three for each 36" board and 2 for the 24" board.

I'm planning on ripping some scrap plywood and attaching the belts with spray adhesive. Am I on the right track here? Any thoughts to the length/width/grit etc...?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'd keep the length to 30" or less unless you really want a work out :help: I'd make 2 boards, one flexible out of 1/4" plywood and one stiffer in 3/8 or 1/2". For rough fairing mostly 60 and 80 grit. I wouldn't use 120 until after the primer is on.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:22 pm
by TomW
Yep keep them to 30" unless your 6'3" and 275lbs like I am. :lol: Then I only made them 34" long. I'll disagree with Larry the stiff board shoud be 1/2 or more. I made mine out of 3/4".

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good info

I'm 6 feet so I suppose I can start with maybe 32 and loop off the ends if I feel it's a lil long. And I can always add wood to make it a lil stiffer too. I have a lot of 1/4 so I could start with 1/4 and then laminate additional pieces of 1/4 to stiffen it up until it felt suitable. Sounds like this approach would be easy enough to do.

I'll report back.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:52 am
by Prarie Dog
FF, those fairing boards are good if you're into bodybuilding. I used an airfile, which is an autobody tool, to sand my boat with. Final sanding was done with a 6inch DA Sander. The body guy that helped me finish my boat laughed when he looked at the fairing boards we had built and used. I know a lot of guys have finished their boats with them, but if your glasswork is a little rough using a powertool is probably a good bet. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:45 am
by TomW
Don't know if we mislead you somewhere Casey you will need two boards. One stiff and one flexible. The stiff should be 1/2 to 3/4 for the flat parts of the the boat and the flexible should be 1/4" for the rounded areas of the boat. Not many of us have access to airfiles that PD mentioned above.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:08 am
by SmokyMountain
I'm planning on ripping some scrap plywood and attaching the belts with spray adhesive. Am I on the right track here? Any thoughts to the length/width/grit etc...?
Casey,

I purchased a roll of 80 grit fairing sand paper from Jamestown distributor with sticky back already on it, instead of going the belt sander route... another option.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
Andrew, A good option. Did you go through the whole role or would I be better suited to just purchase individual belts? How wide is the sandpaper on the role? I'll start with these belts just to hole me over but I like the idea of having a whole role. What grit did you find you used most and do you have a quantity to suggest?

Tom -
I was only starting with two flexible boards and only have the 8 splices to fair out, which are only about 8" in width. However, you are correct. I had forgot about the stiff board. I remember seeing them as an option from 3M but had not given it a second thought since. And looking at the four splices toward the back of the boat, the are indeed in the flat areas of the side and bottom panels of the hull.

Prarie Dog - I like the sound of going with the tools. However, I do not have access to this tool. I did purchase a 5" inch orbital sander and a finishing sander from Bosch as well as a larger electric sander/buffer.

Larry - I'm tracking now on having one flexible and one "stiffer," meaning almost "fixed" to a flat position. Our fishing day is just around the corner. WOOT!! WOOT!! I'm planning on tossing my boat plans into my bag and maybe having you talk me through the lamination schedule for a few mins, if that's cool.

Thanks everybody. All very helpful.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:19 am
by Uncle D
Prarie Dog wrote:FF, those fairing boards are good if you're into bodybuilding. I used an airfile, which is an autobody tool, to sand my boat with. Final sanding was done with a 6inch DA Sander. The body guy that helped me finish my boat laughed when he looked at the fairing boards we had built and used. I know a lot of guys have finished their boats with them, but if your glasswork is a little rough using a powertool is probably a good bet. :D
Image

PD is this the tool you are referring to and if so will my 5 gal 3/4 hp compressor run it

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:25 am
by Cracker Larry
UncleD, I think this is the tool referred to. Most people call them air files, but I think they are technically called a straight line sander. Basically a pneumatic long board. It takes a heck of a compressor to run one, 5 gallons won't come close :wink:

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:28 am
by Uncle D
Thanks CL, looking forward to Popeye arms.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Our fishing day is just around the corner. WOOT!! WOOT!! I'm planning on tossing my boat plans into my bag and maybe having you talk me through the lamination schedule for a few mins, if that's cool.
That's cool. I'm not familiar with building that boat, but I've always got an opinion :lol: I sure hope we can get some decent weather when you come. The redfish are there if we can get to them. Got a new rod we need to bend :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:40 am
by pole-position
Has anybody got the link for the website that Joel ( ?? ) posted a while back that made a powered fairing board....I believe they made them in both electric and air powered, and were available in lengths longer than the airfiles.

Also, has anyone tried them out? I'm too old for this much manual labor.......

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - sounds good to me. Is that a new fly rod you purchased, or a spin rod? I can shoot a whole fly line but casting with a spin rod makes me look like a tool. :lol:

Fellows - so does anybody know of a decent priced air file? Maybe a website? Powered fairing board, I like the sound of that. What if you just bolted a couple finishing sanders to the top of the fairing board. Maybe one on each end and hold onto them for handles. They are light and they vibrate well. Maybe something like this. http://www.toolup.com/bosch_1297dk_14-s ... etloc.aspx

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:34 am
by Uncle D
flyfish2743 wrote:. What if you just bolted a couple finishing sanders to the top of the fairing board. Maybe one on each end and hold onto them for handles. They are light and they vibrate well. Maybe something like this. http://www.toolup.com/bosch_1297dk_14-s ... etloc.aspx
I was thinking of a couple of RO's on each end. :doh: :lol: I really don't need bodybuilders arms.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry - sounds good to me. Is that a new fly rod you purchased, or a spin rod?
It's a spinning rod, and I didn't purchase it, I built it :wink:

Image

Fellows - so does anybody know of a decent priced air file?
The one I showed a pic above is from Northern Tools, it's not expensive, about $60 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 6636_36636

Here is another from Harbor Freight, it looks like the same tool and it's only $29 http://www.harborfreight.com/2-3-4-quar ... r-280.html

Image

These are about 18" long. I've seen people bolt a longer fairing board to the bottom. Remember, it takes a heck of a compressor to power these.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:52 am
by Cracker Larry
I can shoot a whole fly line but casting with a spin rod makes me look like a tool. :lol:
Maybe we can give each other lessons :lol: I can hit a tea cup at 100 yards with a spinning rod, but I'm a danger to myself and everyone around me with a fly rod :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:36 pm
by Steven
SmokyMountain wrote:
I'm planning on ripping some scrap plywood and attaching the belts with spray adhesive. Am I on the right track here? Any thoughts to the length/width/grit etc...?
Casey,

I purchased a roll of 80 grit fairing sand paper from Jamestown distributor with sticky back already on it, instead of going the belt sander route... another option.
I purchased a roll of velcro backed 80 grit sandpaper from rockler woodworking supplies. The store in Arlington has it. Then I purchased a roll of industrial strengh stickyback velcro from the Hobby store. I've seen it in HD as well. I tried the sticky back sandpaper but it was not easy to remove for changing sheets. The heat from sanding makes the glue hold tenaciously. The Velcro is wonderful, so I made several different sized sanding "devices".


12 bucks from Harbor Frieght. It is a nerf like foam and has a thing flexible metal shoe. It is very comfortable to use as you have a lot of positions you can hold it. I stuck the velcro to it and it rocks. I have stiffer ones for various degrees of curvature.

Image


Northern Tools has some inexpensive ones.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200335210

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - Wow - those are beautiful rod wraps! Lessons sound good. I'm an FFF (Federation of Fly Fishermen) certified instructor and absolutely love teaching. Back in my college years I would teach one lesson and it would pay for my entertainment for the whole weekend, eating out, taking the girl friend out etc... and still leave some funds left over for more gear. Casting instruction is one of my fav things to do, next to fly fishing of course. Actually... I need to renew my certificate.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - How long is that yellow thing? Great ideas.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry - Wow - those are beautiful rod wraps! Lessons sound good. I'm an FFF (Federation of Fly Fishermen) certified instructor and absolutely love teaching.
Thanks Casey. I'm a certified Klutz with a fly rod :help: I've used them a little off and on all my life, but never was much good. I built a nice 9 wt. last winter and matched it up with a Lamson reel. Really sweet outfit. It took me half the winter to get all the wraps done. It's 4 piece, 9' rod with lots of wraps :help:

Image

Image

Image

I had all intentions of really learning to use it for redfish. It just frustrated me and the fish to no end and I got a new ear piercing and a feathered eyebrow hoop. And no, I'm not into body piercings :!: When Richard (Aripeka Angler) told me he was going to Alaska last summer, I asked him if he had a travel fly rod to take for salmon. He said no he didn't, and I said yes you do, and I gifted it to him :D We've been eating salmon ever since, and it's in much better hands now 8)

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:40 pm
by AussieBoater
pole-position wrote:Has anybody got the link for the website that Joel ( ?? ) posted a while back that made a powered fairing board....I believe they made them in both electric and air powered, and were available in lengths longer than the airfiles.

Also, has anyone tried them out? I'm too old for this much manual labor.......
Here is the link Joel posted. I have not tried one...


http://flexicat-tools.com/flexicat-products.php

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:46 pm
by TomW
Powered air sanding boards like the one shown start at about $350-400 as I recall. They are not a cheap air tool. Check Northern Tool if anyone is going to have a reasonable priced one they will.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:59 pm
by Prarie Dog
Guys, Larry is right on the nut about the compressor. I bought a five hp compressor with a 60 gallon tank to run this sander. The sander is noisey as hell and takes a fair amount of strength to operate. It is still much better than a manual fairing board. There are a lot of online body shop tool places that sell them for about $125 (Ingersol Rand). The compressor will run you about a grand by the time it is plumbed and wired. Should have bought the compressor years ago. The kids can air up bike tires for a coupla weeks without running the compressor. :D All this equipment will probably cost me some serious jewelry down the road, right now I'm trying not to think about it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW - Good Call. I may find my biceps are larger after this boat is built. This will help with the casting.

Larry - Those are some amazing rod building skills you have. Very impressed. I would be more than happy to give you a few casting pointers, we can have you catching red fish on a fly rod in no time. I have a couple pics of reds I've caught but I have only chased reds with my fly rod a few times. The pics were before I went digital. I'll see if I can scan them and post them up.

Prarie Dog - Yikes! Looks like Ill be going with the manual fairing boards.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:04 pm
by tobolamr
The other positive thing about a good, heavy compressor is for painting. If you want, then you can buy a conversion HVLP gun to run with that big compressor, and lay down one heck of a finish. Just passing on what rolls through my brain...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:09 pm
by TomW
All things considered that's a pretty cheap set-up for something you'll have down the road PD. Didn't realize you could get pneumatic sanding boards so cheap.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:14 pm
by Prarie Dog
Tobolamr, that was one of the reasons I bought the big compressor. Right now I am plumbing the shop with galvanized pipe for an in place air system. After getting as far on this boat as I had I realized that I needed to run a HVLP setup, good quality air sanders and all my impact wrenches that, when using, I had to sit around and wait for the compressor. Don't have to wait anymore and am not limited to hobby tools when I want to do a project. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:43 pm
by TomW
You the Man now! 8) That is great we love our toys. :wink: I can't be without power in my shop for the woodworking tools or vacumning the dust up. I still get to much dust. :(

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:48 pm
by SmokyMountain
Yikes! Looks like Ill be going with the manual fairing boards.
Manual fairing boards build character... :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have purchased a dedicated HVLP set up for painting the boat. Fortunately, it doesent require this large of an aircompressor. I'm afraid I would not have room to place a large one in my garage. There is this stinkin big boat in the way!

I did install a large Delta vac system and a Jet air filter to help too. :D Yeah. Gotta love the tools!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:56 pm
by pole-position
AussieBoater wrote:
pole-position wrote:Has anybody got the link for the website that Joel ( ?? ) posted a while back that made a powered fairing board....I believe they made them in both electric and air powered, and were available in lengths longer than the airfiles.

Also, has anyone tried them out? I'm too old for this much manual labor.......
Here is the link Joel posted. I have not tried one...


http://flexicat-tools.com/flexicat-products.php

Thanks for posting........I don't want to hijack this thread, but my question is this: why don't you use peel-ply, especially on the bottom, when glassing? I know it takes more epoxy, which would result in a bit heavier boat and a little more expense, but wouldn't the labor savings on fairing be worthwhile?

Sorry for the dumbass questions, but coming from someone who has never built a boat and despises having to sand, I was curious as to what everyones thoughts are.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:02 pm
by Prarie Dog
PP, you don't have to worry about the question. I was a dumbass on my build for not using peel-ply (looked expensive) and for not being more careful doing my laminations. I went through a lot of fairing compound and sanding materials fixing my mistakes. It won't happen again. I plan on fairing my next boat with a fraction of the materials and work than went into the first one. Now I may not need all this crap. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Manual fairing boards build character...
That's right Andrew, and it builds muscles too :lol: We need those for fighting the monsters. If we could get Bradley on that fairing board for a few weeks then maybe he wouldn't lose so many fish :lol: :lol: He might need to get a bigger rod though :idea:

Image
I would be more than happy to give you a few casting pointers, we can have you catching red fish on a fly rod in no time. I have a couple pics of reds I've caught but I have only chased reds with my fly rod a few times.
Then I'd just have to build another fly rod :lol: It will be my pleasure to watch you catch a few. I love watching people fly fish who are good at it. I took Doc Dyer (Bradley's) dad and a friend of his fly fishing for cobia and reds last spring. Bradley's dad is a master of the fly rod and a pleasure to watch, so was his friend Steve. Poetry in motion 8) My spinning rod caught more fish though.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:54 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Steven - How long is that yellow thing? Great ideas.
Not sure. I'll measure it tonight. I don't find the sanding that difficult. For me, it's more tedium and how much time I want to spend on that elusive "perfect" finish. I'll do a good job on it, but it won't be yacht finish. Did the same on my GV11. You wouldn't know it's painted if I didn't tell you, so it's good enough.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - Yeah, a spinning rod can be deadly!

Steven - Thanks.

Does anybody know what width the rolls of sanding paper come in?

I'm planning on using peel ply.

Prarie Dog and Pole Position - I invite any and all questions relevant to building these stitch and glue boats. So those questions were great. I glean a lot of good info from the tangents.

I find this forum addictive! :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:19 pm
by Steven
The foam sanding block is 16"

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:21 am
by TRC886
Prarie Dog wrote:Tobolamr, that was one of the reasons I bought the big compressor. Right now I am plumbing the shop with galvanized pipe for an in place air system.
Make sure that your air drops come from the top of the pipe...this reduces the chance of getting water in your tools :!:
Cracker Larry wrote: I built a nice 9 wt. last winter and matched it up with a Lamson reel. Really sweet outfit. It took me half the winter to get all the wraps done. It's 4 piece, 9' rod with lots of wraps :help:

Image

Image

Image
Absolutely flawless :!: Just what we expect from you :D :D

BTW, you mentioned something about a sewing machine on another thread. Would you like another one :?:
flyfish2743 wrote:I find this forum addictive! :help:
Amen :!: :!: :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - This makes me want to finish my 3 wt bank I have in the other room. It's a Winston 2 piece 9' for dry fly fishing. I looked at your pics over again when I got home. Those are some fine wraps.

Steven - thanks.

If I picked up another air compressor that would make four! I need to quit acquiring tools.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Air compressors.

This is what I'm using in lieu of a large air compressor/HVLP set up. My rig is outfitted with an Accuspray gun, 25' hose and a portable 2 quart pot, in addition to the 2.5 gallon pot on the unit. It's so quiet you can almost have a normal conversation over the noise of the compressor
http://www.spraytechinc.com/portal/us_c ... 01161.html


Fairing Boards.

The fairing boards are coming along nicely. I decided to build 3 boards. One flexible board that's 1/4 X 4 X 32. One 1/2 X 4 X 30 and one 1/2 X 4 X 24. They are almost complete.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:38 am
by Steven
That's a nice looking unit. I think you need a test subject to hone your spray skills. I'll be happy to roll the OB19 your way when it's time for paint. :)

I'm considering spraying with either an HVLP gun and my compressor, or a dedicated HVLP unit. Haven't sprayed much before, so I'm a bit intimidated by it, but the thought of rolling and tipping this monster is not appealing. I rolled and tipped my GV11 and it came out nice, but it is time consuming and I'm concerned about making it all the way around in time to have wet edge where I finish up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I would have to build a 4 car garage first! :D

I've used both kinds and spraying with an HVLP is not all that hard. As you know there are a couple of ways to supply the air to the gun but where the rubber meets the road is with the gun itself. A quality gun makes a big difference. You may find that one of these units is a good choice.

http://www.fujispray.com/

You will have to fill the pot more frequently if it mounts under the gun but that's no big deal. I place my air compressor under a tarp in the corner of the shop or I set it outside. I then run a 25' hose to my 2 quart pot. I then place the 2 quart pot into a plastic Christmas tree stand.

The bolts that normally hold the trunk of the tree hold the pot securely into place. This keeps me from tipping the pot over when I pull on the 10 foot hose that goes from the pot to the gun. I give the hose a tug and the whole thing scoots along on the floor behind me.

For painting the boat, depending on how much paint I use, I'll probably skip the 2 quart pot and use the 2.5 gallon pot on the unit. Check Craigslist for a used unit. The one I picked up cost me $400 with the gun and its in good shape. New the gun and the unit would have cost around $2,100.

I spray both laytex and lacquer through my gun. The thing works great and lays down one heck of a finish.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:31 pm
by Steven
Great info. I've sprayed a few pieces of furniture with an HVLP sprayer 16 yrs. ago. My compressor will drive a gun, so probably will go that route. I do like the Hitachi units. My big problem is space. Just not enough room in the garage unless I completely empty it and put the boat on a diagonal, which isn't completely out of the question. I'll cross that bridge in a month or 2.

Have you decided on a paint?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That's how my boat is laid out right now, resting at an angle in the garage.

As for paint, I have not decided yet. I haven't really even started my research on paint yet.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:42 pm
by Doc_Dyer
Cracker Larry wrote:
Manual fairing boards build character...
That's right Andrew, and it builds muscles too :lol: We need those for fighting the monsters. If we could get Bradley on that fairing board for a few weeks then maybe he wouldn't lose so many fish :lol: :lol: He might need to get a bigger rod though :idea:

Then I'd just have to build another fly rod :lol: It will be my pleasure to watch you catch a few. I love watching people fly fish who are good at it. I took Doc Dyer (Bradley's) dad and a friend of his fly fishing for cobia and reds last spring. Bradley's dad is a master of the fly rod and a pleasure to watch, so was his friend Steve. Poetry in motion 8) My spinning rod caught more fish though.
8)

Larry you forgot about the seal team...they throw a fly all day long :wink:
it helps that one is right handed and one is left handed. keeps them flies on the outsides of the boat 8)

off topic....that sucks ass about the book thief....nobody likes a crook

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry you forgot about the seal team...they throw a fly all day long
Yes they certainly do. From daylight to dark :!: I haven't forgot. And compared to me, you and Andy are experts for sure. Here you are casting to tarpon at Boca Grande. Dang that was a pretty sight, all those tarpon rolling out there. 8) Can't wait to get back.

Image

But Leroy just makes it look so easy. He really is the smoothest fly caster I've ever fished with, not that I've had a ton of experience with it, but enough to recognize competence. One thing certain, I aint picking up a fly rod with him on my boat. Although I'm sure he would be gracious, he would laugh at me all the way back to Tennessee :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Gotta love fly fishing.

Three fairing boards are now done. I just need to attach the sandpaper.

Steven - Here is the paint pot set up with the Christmas tree stand. It holds a 2 quart pot perfectly and keeps it from tipping over.

I set it at my feet and then use a 10 foot hose that I run up to the gun.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question about fairing over the splices.

So I planed down the edge of my panels about 1/16th of an inch to allow room for the fiberglass and epoxy splice.

Things seems to be fairing out nicely with the fairing boards and the 5" orbital sander. However, there is about a 3 inch by 1/4 inch section where I sanded down to the wood right on the seam of the splice. Everything is fine with the joint but I'm wondering when I cover this section with the fiberglass for the hull if that will be enough strength.

I would prefer not to layer over this little spot because I would then have an ugly bump to fair out again. I could always take the wood down deeper and fill it in with some fiberglass, but I would rather not.

Do I need to worry about this? Thoughts? :doh:

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:35 pm
by Steven
I'm a bit confused. Can you post a picture? Fairing doesn't start until the hull is completely glassed. You only knock down the edges of the tape and the selvage strings before covering with cloth. Then you fair.

Ok. Re-read and I think I get it. Were on the seam did you sand through? Right over the joint? If so, put a patch piece over it. The bump will be insignificant and very easy to fair out. Quick fair makes quick work of it. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok Steven,

I think that answered my question. I was curious as to how much to sand out the imperfections of the epoxy and fiberglass on the splices but it sounds like it's not something I really worry about until the final fairing process. Correct?

Here is the pic you requested. You can see the lighter color wood. It's pretty small. I posted up a pic of my paint pot for ya. It works like a champ.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:33 pm
by Prarie Dog
Flyfish, what seam is that? It looks like a flat section but maybe it isn't. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
PD - it's flat. It's about 4 feet from the transom. It's also right next to the reverse chine where it's gonna be stronger that all get out. I'm thinking I could just toss a small block on the inside of the hull and not look back it's so small. Or maybe skip the block all together and just rely on the next layer of fiberglass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:45 am
by Steven
All you want to accomplish on your splices and chine tape before glassing is to knock down the edges and the rough selvage strings that hold the fiber together. Your main goal is to allow the cloth to cover the splices with no air pockets at the raised edges of the tape. That sand through is right on the joint it appears. I'd cover it with a 6" long piece of tape at the same time I do the cloth. The resulting bump will be very slight if you do it wet on wet. When you fill the weave with a thickened slurry, it will all but disappear.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - sounds good. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Next up from Bateau

Peel Ply for the hull.

More Fillet Epoxy for the reverse chines.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got sidetracked working on an Orca 21. I hope to be back on the PH18 by Wed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
My father and I worked on the keel tonight. It's nice and straight with litle to no dips or rises in the hull.

We ripped a long 8 foot batton on the table saw and used it as a guide. I hope to tab the keel and have it filleted in by this weekend. Then I can finish up the reverse chime and start glassing the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:00 pm
by Steven
Be sure to check the planing surface between the keel and chine as well. Nows the time to shim out any dips.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - good call. I will keep an eye out for this.

Thank you,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
The keel is coming along nicely with about 1/3 tabbed. I only have two little flat spots between bulkhead A and B, near the keel, that need to be adjusted. Then I will finish tabbing it from bow to stern.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:52 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:The keel is coming along nicely with about 1/3 tabbed. I only have two little flat spots between bulkhead A and B, near the keel, that need to be adjusted. Then I will finish tabbing it from bow to stern.
By tabbed do you mean "spot welded"? You can glue the entire seam with putty, pull the ties and fill in. Once it's all cured, sand to a nice radius and then tape the joints. I've seen some pictures where builders but small glass tabs on before pulling the ties, but it is not necessary. The glue is plenty strong if you won't be moving the hull. You want the glass tape to be one long piece. from bow to stern. If you do it in pieces for some reason, you'd need a 6" overlaps.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

By tabbing I mean spot welding. I'm hitting the spots between the zip ties, cutting them out and then filling the gaps inbeteeen the spot welds.

Looks like I'm on the right track. :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
I built a scaled version of the Phantom a little while back for fun.

Scroll down below the post to see all the photos. Each thumbnail will take you to a larger pic. The window wiper worked great as a rub rail!

Here is the post.

http://www.flyfishingmonk.com/articles/ ... your-boat/

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:27 pm
by Steven
Hey Casey,

We've organized a Texas builders meet in July. Completed boat is not a requirement. :) Check it out if your interested, we'd love to have you.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25550

Steve

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
I was with Casey today and told him about it. He hadn't heard yet but he wants to come. Great guy, I enjoyed his company. You will too 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:37 pm
by Steven
Thanks Larry. Did you guys have any luck?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:41 pm
by Dougster
Hey Fly, that model is sure neat. What a cool way to start a build. Would have saved all kinds of troubles on my Nina and been fun too.

Learnin' as he goes Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
Did you guys have any luck?
We never launched the boat. Weather was terrible, even for me :lol: raining, windy and 40. We watched it at one ramp for a while, drove to another ramp hoping for better, but it wasn't. So I took him for a ride around the area, we went and visited Raymond, went and had lunch, talked about boats and fish all day. We're going to try again on Sunday.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Dougster for the compliments on the model.

Larry and I had a lot of fun today. I got several questions answered. The Mexican food was great an I got to give "No Escuse" a look over. Awesome boat.

So far I'm getting the "no go" for Sunday. :( Something about a vacation and being uncomfortable in a car, much more a boat. And then she played the seven months pregnant card. :wink:

As of now it looks like I won't be able to join you and Raymond... And yep, officially bumbed. Pray she changes her mind!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:31 pm
by gstanfield
And then she played the seven months pregnant card
Yeah, today my wife played the eight months pregnant card. I stood my ground though, told her in a stern non-compromising manner that she can't keep using that pregnant excuse much longer, as a matter of fact I was stern enough that I told her I won't listen to it at all next month :wink:

Well, that's my version of how it happened and none of you were around so I'm sticking to it (unless she happens on the forum...)

George :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
As of now it looks like I won't be able to join you and Raymond... And yep, officially bumbed. Pray she changes her mind!
Did you tell her I'd be gentle? Keep working at it. You've got my cell, call it anytime. Give me an hours notice on Sunday and we can still do it.

Dori has to go to Atlanta Sunday morning for work, I've got a fishing pass all the way to Thursday :D

It was a pleasure spending the day with you. I really enjoyed it. Sorry it's February :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

Looks like on Sunday I'll be staying on land unfortunately. I greatly appreciate the invite and really had a lot of fun on Friday. We'll definately have to try this again in the future. There're some reds out there just waiting to chomp down on a clouser. 

Thanks for all the good boating info too!! I look forward to our next adventure.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:04 pm
by Cracker Larry
Me too Casey, it was a pure pleasure. You know how to get in touch with me. I'm hoping our paths will cross again 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Let's definately plan on it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:
And then she played the seven months pregnant card
Yeah, today my wife played the eight months pregnant card. I stood my ground though, told her in a stern non-compromising manner that she can't keep using that pregnant excuse much longer, as a matter of fact I was stern enough that I told her I won't listen to it at all next month :wink:

Well, that's my version of how it happened and none of you were around so I'm sticking to it (unless she happens on the forum...)

George :lol:
George,

I totally missed your post. That was funny. I'm sure it went something like that.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:25 pm
by gstanfield
:D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
It finally got above freezing and I finished filleting the keel.

Now I'm onto filling in the reverse chine with wood and epoxy. But first I'm going to use a laser to double check that I have no twist in the hull.

On a side note:
I hope to hook into a few of these fly fishing the pre-spawn on Lake Fork here in TX. 36 of the 50 largest bass caught in TX came from this lake. And 20 of them were during the months of February and March.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:49 am
by gstanfield
Very nice, I sure do miss me some bass fishing :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah - bass fishing rocks!!

I finished up filleting the keel. Here is a pic after I pulled the final few zip ties.

Image

gstanfield - Here is another bass I recently caught. This one on a four weight. He hit the surface just before a storm rolled in. Right after the pic the temp dropped about 10 degrees. You can see the storm clouds looming in the background.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:16 am
by gstanfield
Beautiful fish :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:49 pm
by tobolamr
Nice Bass... I'm so jealous... And I can hardly wait for ice out!!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
It would make a good grouper bait :P

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks tobolamr and gstanfield.

Larry - I'll see if I can find a couple tarpon pics. ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

Is this a little better? I have a pic of a larger one around here that I caught on an 11 weight. I'll find it and scan it.

I caught this guy with a 12 weight. We saw him cruising all by himself about 200 yards out and set the fly in front of him at about 70 feet out. He took it on our second attempt. Munch Munch.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:13 am
by Cracker Larry
There ya go, much better, Casey 8) That's what I'm talking about :lol: :lol: The background looks familiar, Ambergris Cay, Belize?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
That's right - just south of the San Pedro a few miles. You really know your water!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:06 am
by Cracker Larry
:lol: We used to spend a lot of time there. One of my favorite places on God's planet 8) The boat looks familiar too, was it one of Capt. Bicho's?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Boy I agree with that statement sir.

As for the boat, I can't recall the guide's name.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Slowly but surely I am getting this reverse chine where I want it. I hope to proceed with filling in the chine soon.

Here is the new bow. This Phantom will be closer to 19'6".


Image
Image
Image

I noticed after I finished filleting the hull panels together at the chine that the last 8 feet or so was not a straight line out at the chine but dipped down about 1/4 inch a few feet from the stern. This was symmetrical on each side.

To remove these dips I added thickened epoxy to the top of the panel to make the chine perfectly smooth and true from the tip of the bow to the back of the transom. This will only make the chine look better when the boat is on a trailer because when it's in the water it's obviously under the water line. Here is how I added a little more width to the side panel. I made a form with a piece of ply and some duct tape.


Image
Image

At this time I also crawled under the boat and shimmed the bulkheads and stringers to eliminate any dips and flat spots. I bridged the higher epoxy of the splice with tongue depressors and a batten. I placed a small weight at both ends of the batten and allowed it's natural curve to show me where the hull needed to be shimmed. Anywhere the hull diverted from the curve of the batten I added or removed shims. It seemed to work pretty well.


Image

I plan to post about this, and all the other stuff I'm learning about boat building, on my blog.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
This evening I dressed up the very tip of the keel.

I layered up about 6 pieces of masking tape and filled in the pockets from the fillet epoxy with thickened epoxy. The reason I used the masking tape was so I could then sand down the little bit of excess epoxy flush to the wood, in preparation for bringing the reverse chine around the keel perfectly symmetrical on both sides. Here are the pics. You can see how he epoxy is raised just a little bit in the last pic.

Image
Image
Image
http://www.flyfishingmonk.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:26 am
by SmokyMountain
Looking good Casey!! What are you going to fill the reverse chine with?

I'm glad you are taking the time to shim everything just right. I rushed that part of the build a little because I was so excited to have a boat.... nothing major, but would have saved me a little time and angst in the long run.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Andrew!

I'm going to fill most of it in with strips of ply as seen in the photo, each strip getting progressively smaller. The photo is kinda bad because I took it with my cell on the way out the door this morning. I will then make the top of the strips flush with thickened epoxy. I think it will work. I have cut about 40% of the strips so far. They are easy to rip on the table saw.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
stickystuff wrote: The more concave cup you can get on your spray rails the better. Check out smartrails.com. I think that may have a web site if you do a google on smart rails. Expensive for a piece of plastic. You may be able to duplicate them out of wood if you have access to a shaper or router table with the correct bits.
stickystuff and everybody else,

I've made a reverse chine that goes from the bow to stern and it is coming along quite nicely. Any thoughts on the angle of approach from the tip of the chine back up to the hull? I know we have talked about this before in the past but it has been so long since I addressed it with you.

Here is a sketch of what I have in my mind. What I was planning on going with the angle is about what you see in the picture. I plan to over hang the edge of the hull with the deck and to smooth out the underside of the rail as a reverse "U" to catch more spray. The rub rail is not in the correct location either but you can see what I'm going for at least.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:14 pm
by Steven
My memory is not the greatest. There was a good discussion on reverse chime design. I think it might have been in sideslippa's build thread. I think it was said that too much negative angle could induce problems. Parallel to the water line was what I recall was correct.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:12 pm
by Steven
It was in sideslippa's build thread


http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=140

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:12 pm
by Steven
It was in sideslippa's build thread


http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=140

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:55 pm
by TomW
You want a slight reverse angle, thus the name reverse chine. 5 - 10 degrees is good. You want them to direct the water down. A flat chine will induce slapping on plane in a small boat and you don't want that. On big boats with deep-V's they use the flat chines to reduce rolling at anchor. The chines are basically out of the water anyway on a deep-V at speed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
It looks like I will coming in right around 19'6" for this hull when it is all said and done. Maybe even an inch or two longer. Sweetness...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:20 am
by TomW
Go Casey! :D

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:58 am
by stickystuff
The reverse chines i am adding are on or let me rephrase between the spray rail and center of the hull. I will take a couple more pictures and you can see what I am talking about. The flat pieces of plywood you have, to me, will not work very well. I took 1X3 and on table saw tilted the blade so it would rip them edge wise from 0 to 3/4. On the leading edge you need to bevel from the 3/4 edge bask at least 8" to the short or 0 edge of the strake. You want a very sharp entry for the water to flow smoothly. I will post or have larry post them for me. Looks great so far. I would def. change the strakes from what you have.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:52 am
by fishin'
Stickystuff, I think you misunderstood he isn't talking about strakes. That batten is just laying on the hull so he could see how fair the curve of the hull was. It isn't a permanent strake. hope this helps.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
fishin' wrote:Stickystuff, I think you misunderstood he isn't talking about strakes. That batten is just laying on the hull so he could see how fair the curve of the hull was. It isn't a permanent strake. hope this helps.
Stickystuff,

Fishin is correct. The batten was just a guide. I actually don't have any strakes planned for the hull, only the reverse chine and the skeg.

The area in question is the angle of the reverse part from the bottom of the hull down to the bottom of the chine (speaking as if the boat were upright). I can easily play with the angle. The side panel drops down from 1.5 to 2 inches below the bottom panel running the full length from bow to stern. The area where the chine drops down from the hull the most is right where the V approaches the water.

So now that I'm preparing to fill in the triangular gap I have some room to play.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:04 pm
by stickystuff
Sorry, I missunderstood. some of this boat talk messes with me. I know what it is just not the n ame of stuff. I always wanted to do that to my PH16 when I built it. Didn't realize at the time it was that simple to do. My ph was my first complete boat i built from scratch. Been around boats most of my life and at one timeback in 1975 i was in training as an Evinrude mechanic. All this new electronics and the like is way over my old bald head. leave it for the younger guys. Boat does look very good right now. Keep it up. Only took a year and a half for my first build. actually took over a year for all three boats.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
stickystuff wrote:I always wanted to do that to my PH16 when I built it.
Then I'm on the right track. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
I wrote an article about flats boats and put It up on my blog. I'm working on another article for people considering building their own boat. Maybe more people will buy plans and join our little community. :P

Here is the article on flats boats. Enjoy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:56 am
by Uncle D
Good write, Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Don!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Now that I'm back from a business trip to Nashville, I hope to get back onto the build tonight.

When I was away I wrote an article on cutting stringers and blulkheads and threw it up on my blog. Maybe some new builders will find it helpful.

Fly Fishing Monk - Cutting Out Your Stringers and Bulkheads

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:02 pm
by gstanfield
Casey I meant to say this to you before, but those articles are very well written and laid out.

George

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you George! That is very kind.

I enjoy it and writing about boats makes it even more fun. I do a lot of copy writing here at work so I figure the more I write about boats the better my writing skills will improve all together. And hey, it just may help a fellow builder or two. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:06 pm
by Steven
Great work on the articles and the life work. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Steven.

I write for the USA office and assist with the creation of various projects to raise awareness of the needs of people in Asia. I'm fortunate that my father is helping me pay for the boat or else this project would continue to be in the "dream" section of things to do before I die.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:12 pm
by Steven
That's awesome. Very nice that your father can help out. I'm sure he'll be enjoying it as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah. We are having a lot of fun.

Today I reached a milestone. The bottom edge of my reverse chine on both sides from bow to stern is now symmetrical within a 16th of an inch or less.

Now I plan to proceed with glueing in all of my ripped ply to fill the void the over hanging panels has created.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm gettin on the water today and tomorrow to fish for some bass!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
We got skunked. We didn't see anybody catch any fish. Still a little cool.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:16 pm
by gstanfield
At least your water is liquid :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That cold huh? Bummer.

This weekend my buddy and I leveled the hull. We checked it with both a laser and a water level. We found both to be just as accurate. The laser was cool but it requires more set up time. The clear hose was a piece of cake and took less than five mins for the whole process.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It's difficult to work on the boat tonight. I can't get the people of Japan off my mind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:33 pm
by Royce
The devastation is so vast and so total. Add in the nuclear issues that they are battling and it's almost incomprehensible. My heart goes out to the people of Japan. Their losses are monumental.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Royce - Hopefully they will get everything put back together. I pray for them every day.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
If you check the levelness of your hull with a hose and water - put a few drops of food coloring in each end of the hose. It helps to see the water level a lot.

I'm still working on the reverse chine. I have the line where the reverse chine meets the underside of the hull on the starboard side completely marked, and 3/4ths of the dimensions marked on the port side. It's looking pretty cool if I do say so myself.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I need advice.

After I finish up the reverse chines I plan to cut the holes in my hull for the transducers, one in the front of the boat and one in the back. I purchased a nice hole saw kit for this. Cutting the holes is easy. However, I'm curious to get other builder's thoughts on the size of the holes, how best to work with the epoxy and which thickener to use.

My transducers are about 2.5 inches in diameter. I'm thinking to maybe over size the holes to 3.5 or 4 inches in diameter.
Then I'll need to fill this hole back in with epoxy. Thoughts on how to best go about this?

I'm planning to screw a piece of plywood, an inch or so larger than the hole, onto the underside of the hull (and placing a piece of wax paper or partchment paper over it first) and then using the wood to hold the the thickened epoxy in place until it cures. Thoughts? Ideas?

I have West System 404 High Density Adhesive Filler. This is the product I am planning on using to thicken the epoxy with. Is this the right stuff? I assume this product will still allow the sonar to easily pass through the epoxy.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:35 am
by cali123
I am not familiar with the filler that you propose to use but I wanted to remind you that transducers hate air bubbles so try to be careful. After some trial and error I feel that heavy polyethelene film (not painters plastic) or clear packing tape works the best as a release agent . Good luck, Shelby

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:36 am
by cottontop
Casey, If you have time do a quick search on "Cracker Larry's" site. He did these and they turned out real nice. Be careful of the thickener. From what I've read here there can't be any bubbles. Your writing is interesting and you build is beautiful. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:47 am
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I used milled fiber and some silica for mine and turned out good. The silica will help against the slurry sagging. Also, you don't really need to screw the plywood plug to the underside, duct tape works fine and no holes. You won't be leaving the tape on the hull long enough to get a sticky residue. Like other have said the main thing is to minimize air bubbles.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:09 am
by topwater
I used milled fiber, silica, and chopped glass. I just covered a piece of cardboard with packing tape
and used duct tape to hold it in place. Came out nice and smooth.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
cali123 - I'll keep an eye out for any of those sneaky bubbles. Any tips on getting them to the surface? I know I used to use a little heat when doing rod wraps on fly rods. The heat would bring the bubbles to the surface.

cottontop - I will check out Larry's build and see what I can dig up. Thank you for the compliments. Your last name doesn't happen to be Bennett does it? A John Bennett left a nice comment on my blog. I wrote him back on the blog but I wanted to thank him, here on Bateau, for the comment. I'm working on two more articles this week. One on splicing the stringers and one on building fairing boards. Both are coming along nicely.

SmokyMountain - Good call on using duct tape. I've been using it for holding my shims into place but it did not occur to me to use if for this application.

topwater - I guess i will need to round up some silica...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep Casey, Cottontop's name is John Bennett :wink:

What are you needing to know?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry!

Well, we're just discussing the options for the epoxy mix required for filling in the void in the hull for the transducers. Looks like it can be tackled a few ways (silica, milled fiber, chopped glass, etc).

I have West System 404 High Density Adhesive Filler and was wondering if I could just use it or if I should order some silica, milled fiber or if I should add some chopped glass.

Any tricks on how to eliminate all the air bubbles? I have used a little heat on rod wraps before and it seemed to quickly bring them to the surface.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:41 am
by cali123
When you mix the filler, stir it, don't whip it. Leave the mix thin enough that the bubbles will rise when you tap the mixing cup . Remove as much air as you can before putting it in the hole then tap the underside of the hull with a rubber hammer to get the bubbles to rise. Heating the mix will obviously shorten the kick time but will improve the viscosity enough to help expell the air. Hope this helps. Shelby :D :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Shelby,

That does! Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:04 pm
by Steven
I was thinking about the bubble problem. They sell real cheap vacuum sealing kits for food. Seems like mixing in one of the containers and then pulling a vaccum for a couple of minutes would remove the bubbles. Just leave enough head space so you don't pull any epoxy up the tube.

Also, packing tape is just stretchy enough that you can pull it tight over the bottom of the hole for a no sag dam. Duct tape can leave bits and pieces stuck to the epoxy. Packing tape comes off clean.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well, we're just discussing the options for the epoxy mix required for filling in the void in the hull for the transducers. Looks like it can be tackled a few ways (silica, milled fiber, chopped glass, etc).
Gotcha. Don't copy me on my transducer, I would do it differently if I were doing it again. For the hull plug I cut circles of biax cloth, about a dozen of them, and a mixture of milled fibers, chopped glass and a little wood flour for fillers. No silica at all, that's an anti-sagging filler, just sand really. No need to shoot those sound waves through sand :doh: No need to shoot them through an inch of any dense filler either, that's the mistake I made with mine. It's a powerful unit, supposed to work to 5,000 feet, but it can't mark bottom fish deeper than 150', and it can't even find the bottom if it's deeper than 300' :doh: In coastal waters it works fine, but not worth a dang in deep water. It's trying to work through too much glass.

I cut and filled the hole early in the build, before I even glassed the hull, so it's got about 3 layers of glass over it too

Image

You can't hardly see it here

Edit: I'm wonder it that new air chisel might knock this thing off :idea:

Image

This is how it looked on the inside before glassing in the transducer. The round area not colored

Image

Then used a plastic butter container for a mold and glued the transducer over the top, used milled fibers, chopped glass and wood flour for this.

Image

Anyway, that's how I did it and it isn't very satisfactory :? Doing it again, I'd put the transducer right against the glass on the outer hull skin and fill in around it, so it only has to shoot through 1/4 inch or so of glass. Or I'd spend the $200 for a good flush mount through hull transducer, like an Airmar :wink: Before I go back to the Keys this summer I'm going to have to make some changes on mine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ahhh man it sounds like I may want to consider using a through hull transducer. But I dislike cutting a hole through the hull and having hardware permanently mounted through.

Ok... here is an idea.

What if I cut out the hole, wrap the wood that comes out of the hole in tape and insert the wood back into place. I then proceed to sheet the bottom of the hull and when I flip it over i pop out the wood and glue the transducer directly onto the two sheets of fiberglass, similar to what you have with your epoxy and butter container trick. It's just that I'm now only talking about going through about 1/8 of fiberglass and paint.

And then I can skip this hull plug epoxy bit all together.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
What if I cut out the hole, wrap the wood that comes out of the hole in tape and insert the wood back into place. I then proceed to sheet the bottom of the hull and when I flip it over i pop out the wood and glue the transducer directly onto the two sheets of fiberglass, similar to what you have with your epoxy and butter container trick. It's just that I'm now only talking about going through about 1/8 of fiberglass and paint.
I think that would be just fine. Perfect 8) It's a shame to buy a good fish finder then kill it's sensitivity like I did.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You guys also fish a lot deeper water than I will. Most of my fishing will be in about 30 feet or water or less. Anything deeper and it gets difficult to get the fly line down there to the fish.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, around here I'm usually less than 40' myself, and almost never over 100', so it works fine in my home waters. It's just when I fish deep that it's a problem, but once in a while I do fish deep and I want it to work then too :lol: Just giving you a heads up on the sensitivity issue, it really does dampen the signal with all that glass. I had my boat almost 2 years before I even knew how bad it was, but now that I know, I've just got to fix it. I'm obsessive sometimes :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:22 pm
by gstanfield
I'm obsessive sometimes
You? Never woulda figured :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So should I drop the dough, or will two layers not affect it?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:34 pm
by cali123
I have cleaned off the inside finish and epoxied in a transducer on several plastic boats wih good results. Direct contact with the water is always the best. When I do my xf20, I am going to mount the transducer on a seperate mounting board on the transom. I know that using the skimmer type rig can be a pain in the butt. I am concerned with getting air-free water when running on plane.I think that having some adjustibility will help to offset the negatives of having a transducer hanging in a kill zone. Shelby :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:23 pm
by Steven
What happens if you need or want to change depth finders? Seems one mounted through the hull gives more flexibility.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:07 pm
by Fonda@kauai
I'll second what Larry said about the Airmar transducers. Best I've seen yet and most guys here use them. The flushmount units stick out about 3/16" at the most. A 600w Xducer coupled with a midrange Furuno sounder like the FCV 620 or the 7000F allows us to clearly see onagas and opakapaka at 100+ fathoms. I did a solid circular glass plug like Larry also, but it will be drilled through to mount the xducer and is only to protect the hull from water intrusion.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
You fellows all bring up good points.

We'll there will be no shortage of transducers on this boat so hopefully I will not have to swap one out. I'll have three transducers for my Lowrance HDS-10. One in the front, one in the back, and one sonar structure scan that will be mounted off the bottom of the jack plate that's designed for side scanning and down scanning. It gives you some crazy detail.

Since I'll primarily be fishing in shallow water I think I will go with the shoot-thru-hull set up and glue the transducers to the hull. This will keep me from having an object that extrudes below the hull and will allow me to avoid a hole in the hull. And I already have the two shoot-thru-hull transducers. I think I can minimize what it has to shoot through down to two ply of fiberglass and 1/8 or so of epoxy, which may be shallower then what the shoot-thru-hull has minus the two ply of fiberglass.

I also understand, from what I am reading, that when a boat is cruising at any decent speed the shoot-thru-hull transducer does a better job of picking up the bottom than a thru-hull transducer because the water flows under it better. However, 3/16ths of an inch is really small. Another consideration is there are a lot of stumps around here in the water I fish. Going over a stump may be a little easier with the smooth shoot-thru-hull set up than with the thru-hull set up.

I think for the shallow stuff I'll primarily be using the side scan and bottom scan sonar anyway and the shoot-thru-hull style probably wont give me much trouble in the places I fish. That and this craft probably wont see water much water deeper than what's in the Laguna Madre and the bass lakes of Texas and Oklahoma (That is unless Larry convinces me to follow him to the Bahamas some day.)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:51 am
by Fonda@kauai
Solid reasoning. No sense making another hole if you don't need to 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Fonda,

Though purchasing more gadgets is always fun!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This weekend I tested the transducers I purchased. I wanted to do this before I committed to gluing them into the boat. They worked fine.

I also finished up an article on splicing together your stringers.

Here is a new landing page where I've started putting the articles in one place. Maybe it will help another builder. Enjoy. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Can anybody educate me on tips and tricks for using peel ply?

As I approach this part of my build I figure I need to start to do a little research. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:39 am
by Fonda@kauai
A lot of people have trouble with the technique but it works very well for me, and is probably the reason I'm only a gallon of resin over BOM on a 22 ft. boat. Basically the peel ply has to be laid down while the resin is still very thin and hasn't set at all. Then, starting at one end use a hard squeegee of some kind (I use a popsicle stick on it's side) slowly press the bubbles/excess resin toward the other end. Always work in one direction, from one end to the other. And always apply the plastic and squeegee it out on the resin you just poured before mixing more epoxy, you gotta do it in sections as you go. Work out as many bubbles as you can, the surface tension of the resin should hold the plastic down and not allow new bubbles to enter. Smaller strips of plastic are easiest to deal with, like when using it on 6" tape, but much larger areas can be done. 12" wide strips of plastic are still easy. Just have a pair of scissors handy to cut a slit in the plastic here and there to relieve where the plastic bunches up on curved or large surfaces. Don't worry about where the plastic overlaps and if some resin gets between pieces of plastic, it'll still peel up just fine. I'll do a small pictorial tomorrow and post it in the Anything Else or Resin section if you can wait for it :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:10 pm
by Fonda@kauai
Tutorial is in the Resin section.....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fonda@kauai,

Thank you for taking the time to do this and for replying. Very helpful.

Casey

Hear us a link to Fonda' s tutorial. http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 99&start=0

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I took some time off from the boat to spend 4 days on the water. (see the 2nd to last pic) I did get my reverse chine all mapped out.

I used a channel from a temporary office wall, the piece of trim that goes between the panels, as a batten. It works well for laying over the curvature of the hull. A batten cut from a piece of plywood would not work since it can only bend in two directions, and not 4. This channel can bend in all four directions and still keep a true line.

Here is the channel. You can see it on the right side.

Image

Here is a closer shot of the channel. I screwed it to the hull in a few places.

Image

In this pic you can see the line I scored from the channel just above the reverse chine. This line lets me know where to have the reverse chine meet the hull. It's been mirrored on both sides. Don't confuse it with the line on the side panel. That was the original measurement for the panel before we made the design change.


Image


Here is why I spent some time on the water. It's absolutely beautiful out there right now. The bass are biting and the weather is perfect. And look at this amazing sunset. Hard to not admire creation. You can see my buddy in his float tube


Image

And last but not least... I dropped my drill. I gotta pick up a new wood bit.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
I finally got my first strip glued into my reverse chine tonight. I hope to knock out a strip or two per evening... maybe more. Now that I have done one they should go faster.

I made three fairing boards a few weeks ago. They work really well. I'm writing a blog post on how I made them. It's coming along. I had no idea writing about boats would be just as fun as building one. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm still making headway on the reverse chine. Baby arrives in less than two weeks!!! I hope I still get to hang in the garage some after the arrival.

I knocked out some fairing boards and wrote about it on my blog. Here is the post. Building Fairing Boards in 5 Easy Steps. I like how they turned out. The are very comfortable and I find I use them a lot simply as a glorifed sanding block.

Here are a few pics.

Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
For the reverse chine I'm working on now I like the harder back surface. However, what, if any are you guys using between the board and the paper for padding? Have any of you used cardboard?

Or maybe the 3M Hookit Marine Fairing Board System? You can convert your DIY boards by attaching their stuff to your board and then using their sandpaper. Anyone played with that stuff?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:46 am
by Steven
I use a hook and loop sandpaper from Rockler woodworking. I bought it from the store in Arlington. It was 18 bucks for a 10 yard roll of 3" wide paper. I bought a box of heavy duty Sticky Back Hook and loop tape from Michaels to stick to the board. This is tenacious stuff and works very well. The sandpaper seems very good quality to me. I use 80 grit but the sell it in other grits as well. The hook and loop provides just enough cushion. I also use this for replacement pads for my Multi Tool. I just cut one out to shape as needed. Much cheaper than buying them.

Originally I was using spray adhesive but it was a pain to remove the sand paper and there was no cushion.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:00 am
by topwater
I get all my sandpaper from supergrit.com i buy 36" belts and cut what i need for my boards. what ever is left over
i use on my small sanding blocks. I also use there spray glue and the paper peels off easy. I dont use any padding
on my boards. They have a great selection of paper there you can get any type any width any kind of paper there.
I got this site from Evan when he was rebuilding his cat. Also they sell psa rolls if you dont want to mess with
the glue, check it out i am sure you can find anything you would need there.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
topwater - I'll have to check out supergrit.com. Sounds like we are doing the same thing.

Steven - I remember when you were making your boards you mentioned this setup from the store in Arlington. I would like to have gotten down there to check it out. It sounds pretty cool. I hear ya on the spray adhesive. I can see if a person went overboard that it would be difficulty to get off. I peeled some off the other day and it came off relatively easy but had I had applied more glue than I did it would prob have torn the paper as I took it back off. I really like the replacement paper for your multi tool idea. I'll have to try that... If I can ever round up a replacement head for my multi tool.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:14 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:topwater - I'll have to check out supergrit.com. Sounds like we are doing the same thing.

Steven - I remember when you were making your boards you mentioned this setup from the store in Arlington. I would like to have gotten down there to check it out. It sounds pretty cool. I hear ya on the spray adhesive. I can see if a person went overboard that it would be difficulty to get off. I peeled some off the other day and it came off relatively easy but had I had applied more glue than I did it would prob have torn the paper as I took it back off. I really like the replacement paper for your multi tool idea. I'll have to try that... If I can ever round up a replacement head for my multi tool.

Well, I am the king of overvboard. Plus the paper I was using might not have been stout enough for it. What kind of multi-tool do you have? The one think I did notice is I get less clogging on the sandpaper with the hook and loop. Guess the cushioning affect helps that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:What kind of multi-tool do you have?
It's a Porter Cable Profile Sander but I don't have any of the profile or flat pads for it. I picked up the tool for nothing at Home Depot planning on picking up the pads or an additional tool, giving me two tools for use with the pads.

I can see how the cushion from the hook and loop might help with keeping the paper from clogging. I have a big eraser for getting wood out of the sandpaper but I haven't used it on one of the fairing boards yet. I use it on my Jet sander. I suppose it may work.

Side Question - Does anyone know if Larry has started another build yet? He mentioned that he was planning on starting a small flats boat. If memory serves me right, the FS18. I hope to build that boat someday too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are two pics of the reverse chine build up.

I've started to lay in the pieces of wood. They're kinda like batons but I don't know what to call them. Any thoughts? They're pretty easy to fit using a table saw and and band saw. I had to purchase more clamps today to speed up the process.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:13 pm
by WindKnot
Just read through all 80+ pages of this build. I am taking in every bit of information I can as I am looking to do almost the exact same build. You are going to get plenty of looks with that "engine shade" on North Texas / Oklahoma lakes. I get funny looks and questions all the time while fly fishing out of my kayak! :lol:

Great info, guys!

Cole

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cole,

Welcome to the forum! I'll tell people the engine shade is to keep the sun from peeling off the motor's decals.

80 pages of forum readings can take some time. Hopefully it was informative. Thanks for signing up to receive my blog updates and I hope you find them helpful and entertaining. And tanks for leaving the comment on there too. After I finish blogging about the build I plan to blog more specifically about fly fishing.

My buddy and are building a kayak as well. He purchased the plans from Bateau. It's the Orca 21. If you're ever down here in N. Dallas let me know and you can swing by and take a look-see at the flats boat.

Casey

P.S. Excellent profile name by the way - "WindKnot"

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:04 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote:Cole,
I'll tell people the engine shade is to keep the sun from peeling off the motor's decals.
I like that, I am going to have to remember that for future reference.
flyfish2743 wrote:80 pages of forum readings can take some time. Hopefully it was informative.
I learned a lot. Some of your ideas / options are right with what I am wanting to do on my build. I am hoping to get started in June.
flyfish2743 wrote:If you're ever down here in N. Dallas let me know and you can swing by and take a look-see at the flats boat.

I am in the Dallas area at least once a month. I am originally from the Dallas area, I moved up here with my fiancée who is attending TU Law.
flyfish2743 wrote:P.S. Excellent profile name by the way - "WindKnot"
Thank you, I have no problem with windknots but I couldn't think of another good fly fishing profile name.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:54 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:
Steven wrote:What kind of multi-tool do you have?
It's a Porter Cable Profile Sander but I don't have any of the profile or flat pads for it. I picked up the tool for nothing at Home Depot planning on picking up the pads or an additional tool, giving me two tools for use with the pads.

I can see how the cushion from the hook and loop might help with keeping the paper from clogging. I have a big eraser for getting wood out of the sandpaper but I haven't used it on one of the fairing boards yet. I use it on my Jet sander. I suppose it may work.

Side Question - Does anyone know if Larry has started another build yet? He mentioned that he was planning on starting a small flats boat. If memory serves me right, the FS18. I hope to build that boat someday too.

The eraser might be tough going. Lots or resistance. I use a brush head on my shop vac and vaccum the sanding block and surface frequently. This takes care of the clogging problem pretty good.

Larry is building the FS18. Already bought the wood but is waiting to finish the transom replacement he's doing I believe.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm
by WindKnot
Casey,
What motor are you going for?

I am leaning to either the yami 90/ 1115 or even the Zuk 115. There is only a 45-47 pound difference. With the minimal layout I have in mind, I am leaning more to the 115. I do not carry a lot of gear with me on the water so that should offset the weight difference in the motors, imho.

Here is the anchor, I am going to be using.
http://www.wanganchor.com/

Great looking build, we need more photos!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote: The eraser might be tough going. Lots or resistance. I use a brush head on my shop vac and vacuum the sanding block and surface frequently. This takes care of the clogging problem pretty good.
That makes sense. I will try this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot wrote:Casey,
What motor are you going for?

I am leaning to either the yami 90/ 1115 or even the Zuk 115. There is only a 45-47 pound difference. With the minimal layout I have in mind, I am leaning more to the 115. I do not carry a lot of gear with me on the water so that should offset the weight difference in the motors, imho.

Here is the anchor, I am going to be using.
http://www.wanganchor.com/

Great looking build, we need more photos!
I've seen those anchors. Very cool indeed. I think some guys on here have built some similar ones. I was looking into using one of those but ended up picking up two of the new MinnKota Talons. One for each side of the motor. Bateau also sells a kit for a push pole. I picked one up. You may look into it as well.

I'm going with the Evinrude 115. I was leaning toward the 90 but it's a 3 cylinder. After talking to the fellows over at the Evinrude forum they say the 115-4 cylinder is a much smoother engine. Which makes sense.

I don't mind the extra power since I lengthened the boat 1.5 feet and have about every electronic gizmo under the sun purchased for this thing. As for the gear, I'm the same way. Us fly fishermen don't really have all that much stuff to tote around. But then again my wife would argue with this. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:54 pm
by Steven
Have you found a goor source for Evinrudes down here Casey?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - I haven't. I was planning on mail ordering it from that guy out east that moves a ton of motors. I can't remember the places name but he seems to have the lowest price. Any suggestions?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:21 am
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:Steven - I haven't. I was planning on mail ordering it from that guy out east that moves a ton of motors. I can't remember the places name but he seems to have the lowest price. Any suggestions?
Ed's Marine Superstore?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:37 pm
by WindKnot
Steven wrote: Ed's Marine Superstore?
I didn't know of this one, his prices seem good. Thank you.

Have you guys asked about shipping quotes?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah Steven - That's the one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Windknot - I'm digging the profile pic. Is that a Tibor? I love those reels. I have three of them and hope to one day own the Pacific.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:28 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote:Windknot - I'm digging the profile pic. Is that a Tibor? I love those reels. I have three of them and hope to one day own the Pacific.
Good eyes. I have 3 as well and am kind of a gear junkie so I am constantly trying new gear, getting rid of old gear. Everyone is partial to rod companies, so who do you fish?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:36 pm
by tobolamr
Flyfish - Say, you are lengthening the boat to 19' 6" - I am guessing that is all in the cockpit length? Just curious. I seem to be skipping over that in the thread when I look for that. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot wrote:Good eyes. I have 3 as well and am kind of a gear junkie so I am constantly trying new gear, getting rid of old gear. Everyone is partial to rod companies, so who do you fish?
Windknot,

My 0, 8 and 12 weights are all Sage. My 2, 3, back up 3, 4, 5 and 6 weights, are all Winstons. My 7, 10, 11 and 13 weights are all Scotts. Most of my other reels are all Abel except for one Orvis CFO that I use on my 6 weight and a light Sage (Waterworks reel) that I have for my 0 weight.

Do you tie flies? It's a lot of fun.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Flyfish - Say, you are lengthening the boat to 19' 6" - I am guessing that is all in the cockpit length? Just curious. I seem to be skipping over that in the thread when I look for that. Thanks!
tobolamr - I actually added the extra lenght in the very tip of the bow to make a larger casting area on the front deck. This will now give the angler a whole 6 foot diameter circle for which to stand upon. I dropped the chine down about 7 or 8 inches at the tip as well. The original design had the two bottom panels and the two side panels meeting at the tip of the bow just under the deck. I wanted the chine to terminate a little lower. Here is what I ended up with below. It worked out just as my father and I hoped.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:38 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote: Do you tie flies? It's a lot of fun.
Yes I do, I love it. I just haven't had much time here lately.

Is there a certain model of a flats boat look, that you are going after? I really like the Mavericks style and I can see this hull design looking very similar in the final product.

Try building a scale model of your flats boat first.

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
You know I haven't really given it much thought as to which other boat this Phantom will be similar too.

However, it's beginning to look a little like a Maverick. It appears that the chine on the Maverick stays a little more horizontal with the water as it approaches the bow. We wanted ours to creep up just a tad more.

I first built a scale version of the Phantom 18 and then studied it over and over until I settled on which modifications I wanted to make. That's what's nice about building your own flats boat. You can tweak it exactly how you like. :D

Hobby Lobby will have everything you'll need to make a model.

Here is a pic of it.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Flyfish - Say, you are lengthening the boat to 19' 6" - I am guessing that is all in the cockpit length? Just curious. I seem to be skipping over that in the thread when I look for that. Thanks!
tobolamr - Look at the bow in the pic of the model I just posted up and you'll see how the bow is a little more aggressive in it's approach up toward the deck and how the chine also goes to just under the deck. The last 5 feet or so is where I made my modifications. I stretched this out 18 inches or so and dropped the chine down about 7 inches.

I also posted a picture of the boat as it is now a few posts back for you to look at too... for comparison.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:00 pm
by tobolamr
FlyFish - Thanks for the pic & bringing me up to speed. The 6' radius for the fisherman makes a lot of sense... So how much more ply did you need to make this happen? :doh: You're doing a great job on keeping track of this build - I am going to keep my eyes on this one!

Thank you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:25 pm
by WindKnot
tobolamr wrote: So how much more ply did you need to make this happen?
I am wondering the same thing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It was the same amount as what the plans called for. I just extended the side and bottom panels of the hull out on the 6 pieces of 1/4 inch marine plywood the original design was nested on.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:35 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote:It was the same amount as what the plans called for. I just extended the side and bottom panels of the hull out on the 6 pieces of 1/4 inch marine plywood the original design was nested on.
I would love to drive and pick up some Okoume for my project but it looks like I am going to have it shipped.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
There really isn't a good supplier in OK and the only one in Texas are in Houston and Austin, and they don't carry every size you need. Shipping is prob your best option. If you plan to modify the hull don't get the pre-cut wood panels.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:55 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote:There really isn't a good supplier in OK and the only one in Texas are in Houston and Austin, and they don't carry every size you need. Shipping is prob your best option. If you plan to modify the hull don't get the pre-cut wood panels.
I don't plan on it. I want to build basically everything myself. I think I am going to do scarf joints as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You can. However, the designer doesn't call for a kerf. The butt splices are way strong. I blogged on the splices I did for the stringers and am working on a post now for the hull panel splices. Maybe you will find them helpful. Here is the post.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Using scarf joints may require several extra sheets of plywood. The nesting is usually very tight and a lot of the panels will extend end to end on a sheet of plywood. If you scarf, you will need an additional 6 inches on the end of every splice to net the same length.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:59 pm
by WindKnot
Good info, guys. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:15 pm
by stickystuff
Usually when JM designs for butt blocks, he places them where they aren't visible. Usually in a compartment or seated area. They are plenty strong and don't need scarfing. I real scarf takes a lot of practice or have the or a scarfing jig. Not worth the extra work or money. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Windknot - You can take to the bank what stickystuff and Cracker Larry say. These fellows know their boat building. Smart dudes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Windknot - depending on how you want to go about splicing your Phantom, two or four butt blocks may fall withing the cockpit, since the cockpit is so large.

However, they're under the gunwale, so it's nothing major. I chose to use fiberglass instead of butt blocks for this reason. Now, with a little bit of fairing work, I can hide the splices on the inside.

The splice on the outside of the hull has four inches on each side of the butt joint planed down 1/16th of an inch. The fiberglass splice now rests inside this "valley", flush with the outside of the hull

If your building the 16 or the 15 foot Phantom, then the splices will even be that much easier to hide.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:17 pm
by WindKnot
flyfish2743 wrote:Windknot - depending on how you want to go about splicing your Phantom, two or four butt blocks may fall withing the cockpit, since the cockpit is so large.

However, they're under the gunwale, so it's nothing major. I chose to use fiberglass instead of butt blocks for this reason. Now, with a little bit of fairing work, I can hide the splices on the inside.

The splice on the outside of the hull has four inches on each side of the butt joint planned down 1/16th of an inch. The fiberglass splice now rests inside this "valley", flush with the outside of the hull

If your building the 16 or the 15 foot Phantom, then the splices will even be that much easier to hide.
You answered exactly what my next question was and that is with fiberglassing the splices instead of butt blocks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:13 am
by cottontop
Windknot, I wholeheartedly agree with all the fella's above. They know their stuff. Like "flyfish" I chose to use the fiberglass splice. It's not hard and it is extremely strong. Good luck on your build. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cottontop - good to hear from you. :)

So I shimmed the second half of my hull on the bulkheads and stringers to remove any flat spots and I leveled out the hull one last time in preparation for closing the reverse chine. I used two different kinds of lasers and a long tube filled with water to level this boat. The tube trick is the way to go, much faster. Skip the lasers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
On another thread some of our boat building friends had a couple questions about making the Phantom-18 10% larger and my build came up. Here is what I posted up on that thread. I thought this may be helpful for anyone building the Phantom and reading this thread too. Here was the post.

Hey guys,

gstanfield is correct. I'm building the 18 and I have stretched it 1.5 feet. However, it did not change the nesting plans any. The longer hull and side panels fell within the allocated sheets. I only changed the last three feet or so. Visit this link to follow the build on my blog. Here is a quick run down of what we did.

We spliced the side and bottom panels together before we drew the measurements on them. Image

Then we took a batten and bent it over the keel and out to our desired length, which was about 19"4" (which will give me about 19'6" or 19'8" once the deck is on).Image

We then took an 8 foot foam insulation panel from Home Depot and used it as a template. We simply shaved it with a knife until we got the look we wanted for the side panel. Image

We drew all of our measurements onto the plywood. We added two inches to the bottom of the side panel to have the overlap for the reverse chine. We were generous with our measurements knowing we could remove wood but not add it back. However, the foam was very accurate to within 1/2 inch or so.
Image

We cut the bottom panels pretty large and once we had the side panels in place, we simply shaved them with a power hand planer to fit within the inside of the side panels.Image

Here are a couple of shots to give you an idea of how it's turning out. We accomplished our goals. One was to drop the chine down about 6 or 7 inches from the deck, where it terminates at the tip of the bow. The other is we wanted to make the front casting deck larger. This accomplished both and created a larger anchor locker as well.
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Very little boat building this week becasue I'm at the hospital now waiting the delivery of my second child. :D

However, I'm getting to blog about boat building, so that's cool. Right now I'm finishing up an article on planing butt joints to make the transition over the splice more fair. I used a Bosch hand planer to do mine and it worked great. Hopefully some readers will find it interesting.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:44 am
by gstanfield
Congrats on the little one. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:08 pm
by cottontop
Good luck on this 2nd birthing. Keep us all posted. I will keep you all in my prayers. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks George and John we need all the prayers we can get.

They have pudding cups!!! These things are great for mixing small batches of epoxy. I'm gonna stuff myself with pudding all day long. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:49 pm
by gstanfield
:lol: 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's great Casey :!: I sure hope all goes well. You are supposed to be helping her breathe and holding her hand, not blogging 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:21 pm
by tobolamr
And NOT eating her pudding!!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:20 pm
by SmokyMountain
Congratulations Casey :!: I hope all goes well. You know that pudding will put you in the doghouse... 8O .. for the next ten years you wife will say ... "all he could think is that stupid boat while I was in labor.... :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Wise words gentlemen... and GUESS WHAT????

The baby has arrived and mother and child are well. Elise Noelle born at 2:30 pm and weighing in at 7lbs 9oz. What a gift from God.

It's been a productive day. One new baby and one new blog post. I put it up earlier this morning when the wife and I were waiting for things to really kick in. She actually mentioned she was glad I brought in my computer. Now It's time I go hold this little girl. If I can talk her mohter into giving her up. :D

Here is the new blog post. How to Plane Your Hull Splices Nice and Smooth

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:42 pm
by TomW
Congratulations on the new little one Casey glad mom and babe are doing fine. :D 8) Guess the boat building will slow down for a while! :lol: Thanks also for your fine documentaton. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:18 pm
by tobolamr
Congratulations!!!!! On the baby, not the blog post. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:31 pm
by Joe H
Congratulations Casey to you and you wife, you reminded me it's my brothers Birthday today, he's in Oregon, I'll give him a call.

Again, congratulations, what a gift!

Joe H

Oh, enjoyed your blog.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:10 pm
by Steven
Congrats Casey. That's awesome. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:14 pm
by Royce
Congratulations Casey!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks everybody! It's going well. I get two weeks paternity leave. Maybe I can squeeze in a little work on the boat while all the family is resting for thier daily naps. Here are some pictures, one of the new girl and two of the boat.

Elise Noelle Short. Norn April 13, 2011. This little gift from God is adorable. I'm totally smitten.

Image

Phantom 19' 6". Born Thanksgiving 2010. I cleaned up the garage some and thought it would be fun to get a couple wide angle pics.

Image

I really like how bow and chine modifications are turning out.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:46 am
by cottontop
:P Casey, your little girl is beautiful! Aren't they little miracles and gifts from God. Good luck to you your children and your wife. The blog is great as usual. Thr boat is really coming along. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
John,
cottontop wrote:Casey, your little girl is beautiful! Aren't they little miracles and gifts from God. Good luck to you your children and your wife. The blog is great as usual. Thr boat is really coming along. John
They sure are. And thank you for the compliments and encouraging words.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I just ordered more fillet material, some peel ply to test out, a 2 yard roll of West System release fabric, a 1/2' radius roller, and some other miscellaneous items. I can't wait to get back on the build. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:29 pm
by WindKnot
Casey, congrats on the newest addition! She is adorable.

Work has been so crazy, I haven't even had to time to think about boat building! In this economy, I am thankful that I am staying busy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Cole,

Man I remember those days in the outdoor leisure business. You gotta get it while the gettin's good. I look forward to you starting on your boat! Let us all know when you begin.

Casey

Splicing Hull Panels

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
I thought I would post up some pics on here from when I spliced my hull panels. I used a power hand plane to take off about 1/16th inch of plywood to give the fiberglass and epoxy a place to "nest". It worked out pretty well. Here are a few pics I used in my blog post.

Image

Image

Image

This was a piece of scrap cut off the end of a splice. The arrow is pointing to the transition from the wood on the right, to the start of the epoxy splice on the left.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:13 pm
by TRC886
Congrats on your girl :!: She's a purdy lil' thing, and I'm glad to hear that she and mom are doing well :D

That splice looks GREAT :!: I almost couldn't find it even with the arrow 8O

trc

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks TRC! She's steeling my boat building time and I don't mind one bit.

I'm pleased with how the splice turned out. It was a fun part of the construction.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:02 am
by SmokyMountain
Splices looks good. I did that on the outside of my hull panels and had to do very little fairing in those area.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:06 pm
by Joe H
I just ordered more fillet material
Are you using West System 405 Filleting Blend ? The reason I ask is I tried it yesterday and an 8.0 oz can doesn't go very far, okay to work with but I have nothing to compare it to.

Joe H

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Splices looks good. I did that on the outside of my hull panels and had to do very little fairing in those area.
I knew some people on here have but I wasn't sure who has. I'm glad it worked out. Then I'm on the right track.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Joe H wrote:
I just ordered more fillet material
Are you using West System 405 Filleting Blend ? The reason I ask is I tried it yesterday and an 8.0 oz can doesn't go very far, okay to work with but I have nothing to compare it to.

Joe H
Hi Joe,

I'm using Silver Tip's EZ Fillet. Here is what it looks like. It comes pre-mixed and works really well.

I wrote a blog post about it here.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:51 pm
by Joe H
Thanks Casey, everyone seems to like the ez fillet, I'm going to have to pick-up a small amount and try it.

Joe H

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:56 pm
by Prarie Dog
Casey, are you using Marine Epoxy over the EZ Fillet or are you using something else?
Thanks, Paul

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:13 pm
by Doc_Dyer
Joe H wrote:Thanks Casey, everyone seems to like the ez fillet, I'm going to have to pick-up a small amount and try it.

Joe H
You will love everything about EZ Fillet EXCEPT the price tag 8O 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Prarie Dog wrote:Casey, are you using Marine Epoxy over the EZ Fillet or are you using something else?
Thanks, Paul
Prarie Dog - I'm using SilverTip's Laminating Resin with slow hardener. It's what I picked up with the kit I purchased from Joel. I also have some West System Epoxy. However, It only represents maybe 5% of my epoxy. I had purchased it before I got the larger kit as something just to meddle with.

I sometimes mix 404 High Density Adhesive Filler from West System into my epoxy to make a thicker batch, but just for little tasks.

Your right Doc, it is kinda pricey.

Leveling the Hull to Eliminate Twist

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
So this last week or so I worked on another blog post. I like the title the most.

Leveling Your Boat’s Hull – Modern Technology Verses The Ancient Egyptians

I have a tendency to overcomplicate things, this was one of those times.

Here's a picture from the post of the water level we used to eliminate any twist in the hull. The tubing was the way to go. That's red food coloring we've dropped into each end of the hose so we can see the water level a little easier.

Image

Here are a couple lasers I also used to measure the hull.

Image

Image

Image

If you want updates for when I post on the blog you can sign up here. I only email out cool stuff.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:38 am
by Fabio
Congrats on your lovely baby! My first son Francesco was born on April 16th (2005)
as something said: 'they open a window on an entirely new world' :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Fabio, and welcome to the forum.

And they sure do open a entirely new window. Who would have thought you could love one of these little rascals so much? They're great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:42 pm
by tobolamr
they open a window on an entirely new world'
And they sure do open a entirely new window. Who would have thought you could love one of these little rascals so much? They're great!
Yes they do! Well said! I couldn't agree more!


Say, flyfish, do you have any more pics of your water level system? Or is there a link I should refer to for a touch more info on how to accurately use that system? I've got ideas, but thought I'd ask the guy who had it figure out already. :wink: That could save a whole lot of people a whole lot of headache & time. Thank you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:58 pm
by TomW
T a water level system is very simple. Clear tubing. Colored water. Put water in tubing. Hold one end at where you want level to be hold other end to where level will be and mark. I should add to calibrate hold ends together and mark them when water is level.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:55 pm
by gstanfield
...I should add to calibrate hold ends together and mark them when water is level.
I'm confused on this one Tom. The water will always be level regardless of any mark you make on the tubing, what exactly are you calibrating???

I've used this method on dozens of construction sites when preparing footings and slabs or plumbing drains 20 years ago before lazer levels :D I've never marked the hoses nor even found a need to, just hold the hoses in the approximate area on each end and the water will be level from one end to the other :wink:

Here's a nifty how to with pictures that may help if someone is having trouble visualizing it.
http://www.deckmagazine.com/article/64.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:10 pm
by TomW
Naw George I just like to mark the ends at the same height with a black mark. That way if you can't see the other guy you can holler mark. No big deal. If the ends of the tubes are marked equally it makes it easy to mark the level. Especially over long distances. You don't have to, like you say. But doing it but it makes it easier. It's the engineer in me! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:23 pm
by gstanfield
OK, I see what you're saying :wink: For me I think the mark would be a distractor and I'd forget the water and just line up the two marks and be way off :oops:

I did see a guy staple one to a pole on one end and mark it every inch so he could use it for calculating drop over a long distance, but the same could have simply been achieved with a tape measure. I guess whatever works 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Say, flyfish, do you have any more pics of your water level system? Or is there a link I should refer to for a touch more info on how to accurately use that system? I've got ideas, but thought I'd ask the guy who had it figure out already. :wink: That could save a whole lot of people a whole lot of headache & time. Thank you!
Good question. It can seem kinda tricky at first. But once you start playing with it it starts to make sense. This post may help as well. Leveling Your Boat’s Hull – Modern Technology Verses The Ancient Egyptians

It's easy. Fill the hose up with water so you have a foot or so of hose on each end without water. Have somebody hold the other end at the opposite side of the boat, as seen in the pic below. My boat is currently upside down so I was leveling the hull to eliminate twist. Of course it will work for leveling the deck as well when the boat is right side up.

Image

The water, as the Tom and gstanfield stated, will find its own level in bout 3 seconds. Have your friend place the water level even with the edge of their chine, or some specific place on the hull. Then place the hose up to your chine, opposite side, and see how far the chine is from the water level. In the picture below, the hull would need to go down some to be level with the other side.

Image

Moving up one side was easy because I put a lot of thought into the stand before hand, anticipating the adjustment. We simply used a wrench to lift the stand. Below is a picture of the stand, its adjustable in 7 places. However, if your stand is fixed you will need shims, playing cards work well as a micro shims. Here is an article on how I built the stand.

Image

Then simply get the hull to be level with the water line. The water line will dip in the middle so use the lowest point of the water line as your mark. Food coloring makes it much easier to see. This is what it will look like.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:58 pm
by TomW
Good description FF. In this case no need for baseline marks as your trying to find how far to adjust one side to the other and you have some good help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good point on the baseline mark.

Splash/Spray Rail

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
In addition to the fairly aggressive reverse chine I am building, I'm considering installing an additional spray rail that hangs below the edge of the deck, just inside the rub rail.

I would like everybody's input regarding this additional spray rail, specifically from people who have made the Phantom. StckyStuff and Doug, among others.

Here is what I am considering (not necessarily the same aesthetic design but you get the idea).

Image

Mavrick has something similar.

Image

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:38 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's interesting. I've got no idea how much good it will do, but it looks cool :D Raymond's Maverick doesn't have that but his is several years old. Might would help, we crossed Port Royal last weekend in a serious blow, remember the big bridge going into Beaufort? I had to ride on the poling platform to keep my head above water :lol: :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:45 pm
by gstanfield
I'd personally leave it off if it were my boat. You'll have a decent sized rub rail on there and the reverse chine should help out enough that that thing would be a waste of time I think. I've been wrong before of course, but I really just don't see a big benefit to a little piece on the bottom side of the rub rail. To me a spray rail should be lower than that if you're going to add one.

just my thoughts :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
I tend to agree with George about that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:35 pm
by tobolamr
Thanks for clearing up my question on the water level - as you stated in your blog post, I made that harder than it really was! My head was not thinking right, and you guys got it straightened out! Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr - You bet.

Larry - I remember that place. That is the bridge you said sometimes has waves coming over it. It looks like it could be a rough ride there for sure.

George - I suppose I could always add one later if I really needed it. I may go ahead and construct some just to have them look the same color as the boat, and then if I need'em, I got'em.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
A day for reflection.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:06 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:A day for reflection.
Yes it is.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:42 pm
by TomW
I agree Casey and one of joy on Sunday.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:16 pm
by stickystuff
If you are really concerned about getting that wet I would invest the money and get smart rails.It made a huge difference on my phantom. Here is what I would do. Go on the smart rail website. (Google it) Look how it is set up. Then with an already confused brain think about how you could make one your self. I started out with a piece of 3/4" square stock and epoxied another piece of 3/4 inside corner mold on it.This allowed the water to hit the rail and curve back down for the most part. All in all at one time or another you will get wet. This is the price you pay for this kind of hull design. Sacrifice shallow water running due to flat bottom and get a little wet or go deeper v hull and limit yourself to water depth. A lot of people have tried diff designs. I started out with wood trim and ended up with the smart rails. The only problem I had with the smart rails was I didn't have enough of it to go further back with them. For me it was a great change. A heck of a lot dryer. Just wish I had another 4 ft. for each side. As far as the extra spray rail like the Maverick, ?????Your call. Looks kinda YOU GALLY to me. (Ugly)
Check out smart rails and then decide.$$$$ :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW wrote:I agree Casey and one of joy on Sunday.


I wish this forum had a "Like" button similar to Facebook.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
stickystuff wrote:As far as the extra spray rail like the Maverick, ?????Your call. Looks kinda YOU GALLY to me. (Ugly)
Check out smart rails and then decide.$$$$ :doh:
Yeah, the ones on the Maverick do look youggggellly. If I went that route I would make them look more native to the color and design of the hull. I'll look into these Smart Rails.

Thank you for the input!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
More pics of the reverse chine laminates. There won't be any droop in this hull because the reverse chine is making this a very stiff boat all the way to the tip of the bow.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My estimated time on this project, not counting research, is right at 178 hours of actual work. Wow! It really adds up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
What are your guy's thoughts on a sacrificial keels, something that can be removed, serviced, and screwed back on again?

I'm also interested in your input about Keel Guard or Keel Shield products for beaching your boat on the sand.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:23 am
by topwater
Flyfish i had a keel guard on my triton bass boat for 10 years and it worked as advertised.
I use to launch from an old ramp that wasnt taken care of on a river and when i came back in
i use to have to beach the boat every time so i could get my trailer. It really saved the front
six feet of my bow from alot of damage. This was in new england nothing but mud and rocks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:30 am
by Cracker Larry
What are your guy's thoughts on a sacrificial keels, something that can be removed, serviced, and screwed back on again?
I think it's a bad idea. The keel should be permanent and strong enough to handle what comes it's way. That aint no small skiff, can you imagine how much work it would take to flip it upside down after all the rigging is complete? :help:

No experience with the keel guard, but plenty of experience with rocks and oysters. A couple of layers of glass is almost bullet proof :wink:

Happy Easter to you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:57 am
by TRC886
I don't currently use a Keel Guard, but I very well may when I get my boat back in the water. I've had this boat beached extensively, and you can see where the sand has worn into or through the gel coat. What you're looking at is a drop light under the hull; the light is glowing through the 'glass where the gel coat is thin...on the keel.
Image

Most of my river friends, running 23-25' sport boats (Baja, Stingray, etc.), use it. These boats are beached extensively too, and as topwater said, the product works as advertised 8)

trc

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll do some more research on the keel guard.

Larry - Did you put a metal piece on the keel of your Dory? What are your thoughts on adding a metal strip to the bottom of the keel?

Happy Easter to you too!

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 pm
by BassMunn
I Like the idea of the keel guard but on my Phantom it would be a waste as the skeg seems to hit bottom first. Still can't figure out why they make them so short :doh: When I launched my boat they had a big event on at the main slipways so I had to launch off a little PWC slipway that unbeknown to me, unlike the nice soft sand at the main slipways it had shale rock ready to pounce. I put a few big gouges and even punched one hole into my skeg when I parked her, but all of them where in the rear half of the hull. Note to self - tough is more important than pretty on the underneath of a hull.

Over here most of our sea fishing is done via beach launching. When we beach we hit the beach doing 25-30mph which puts immense strain on the keel. All of our sea boats have an aluminium keel strip running from bow hook to transom to deal with this abuse, but it is excessive abuse that your Phantom won't endure

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry - Did you put a metal piece on the keel of your Dory? What are your thoughts on adding a metal strip to the bottom of the keel?
Yep. Build it to take whatever may come it's way :wink: You don't want to do it twice. The OD18 has a skeg rather than a keel, but it's permanent.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote: The OD18 has a skeg rather than a keel, but it's permanent.
What exactly is the difference between the keel and the skeg. My plans do call it a skeg. I get the terms for this part of the boat swapped in my head. In Delvn's book he seems to refer to them both as skeg and keel. He also mentions stem. :doh:

What kind of metal is that on your boat?
BassMunn wrote:I Like the idea of the keel guard but on my Phantom it would be a waste as the skeg seems to hit bottom first. Still can't figure out why they make them so short.
They seem to come in all sorts of lengths. At least that is what I'm finding on ebay.
BassMunn wrote:Note to self - tough is more important than pretty on the underneath of a hull.
I'm with ya. I'm planning on going with two layers of fiberglass on the entire outside of the hull and then using graphite under the water line like on Larry's Dory.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
What exactly is the difference between the keel and the skeg. My plans do call it a skeg. I get the terms for this part of the boat swapped in my head. In Delvn's book he seems to refer to them both as skeg and keel. He also mentions stem.
In general a skeg is an aft mounted appendage, starting aft of the middle of the boat and extending very close to the transom. A keel is a center appendage, beginning forward of the mid point. It can extend to the transom, or it may stop at a point much shorter than the transom or may even run the full length of the boat, but it is balanced on the mid point of the boat. Think of a surf board. The center fin is the keel, the fin at the rear of the board is the skeg. Same with a boat. There are many types of skegs and more types of keels, but that is the general difference.

Wikipedia definitions which aint the best..
A skeg (or skag) is a sternward extension of the keel of boats and ships which have a rudder mounted on the centre line. The term also applies to the lowest point on an outboard motor or the outdrive of an inboard/outboard. In more recent years, the name has been used for a fin on a surfboard which improves directional stability and to a moveable fin on a kayak which adjusts the boat's centre of lateral resistance. The term is also often used for the fin on water skis in the U.S.A.

Non-sailing keels

The keel surface on the bottom of the hull gives the ship greater directional control and stability. In non-sailing hulls, the keel helps the hull to move forward, rather than slipping to the side. In traditional boat building, this is provided by the structural keel, which projects from the bottom of the hull along most or all of its length. In modern construction the bar keel or flat-plate keel performs the same function. There are many types of fixed keels, including full keels, long keels, fin keels, winged keels, bulb keels, and bilge keels among other designs. Deep draft ships will typically have a flat bottom and employ only bilge keels, both to aid directional control and to damp rolling motions
A stem is a forward mounted appendage which does the same function, but generally extends from the keel to the bow.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:39 pm
by Steven
Mine is sacrificial. Too sacrificial. THE mess up of the build, if you will. Already planning on changing it when it's on a trailer and I can get to it. Not looking forward too it. Sanding off the graphite layer is going to be the pits. :oops: Make it bullet proof just like the hull. And I'm going with a keel guard for sure. We don't have docks on most of the lakes around here so you have to beech. And we don't have sandy beeches. The lack of docks bugs me. I didn't put a keel guard on the GV11 and I have some gouges in the paint. Won't make that mistake twice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:59 pm
by TomW
Casey here is the way I have always kept them seperated. Stem, like a flower stem it is the upright portion of the bow and may have an additional peice of wood to strengthen it. Keel, in a v-hulled boat the lowest angle where the bottom panels come together, in a cat or tri there may be more than one keel. Skeg an additional peice of metal or wood added to the keel to help in steering.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry and Tom - That clears things up and helps a lot. Thank you.

The wiki def mentions the "Bilge Keel". As aggressive as my reverse chine is, starting at the bow and going all the way to the transom and dropping down 1.5 to 2 inches along this lenght, would it serve somewhat of the same purpose as the center skeg? Just curious.

What do you call the center line of the hull where the two bottom panels come together, before the stem, keel or skeg is attached? Is it just called the center line of the hull?

Larry - On the bottom of your skeg, what kind of metal is that? Aluminum? Stainless?

Steven
- Thanks for the heads up on the lack of docks in our area. I'll look at this keel guard a little closer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:11 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry - On the bottom of your skeg, what kind of metal is that? Aluminum? Stainless?
It's aluminum flat bar, 1/4" X 1 1/4". Just wait until you come back and hear that sucker crunching oysters :lol: We'll crunch them up all day long, then you can look underneath when we haul her out. It won't have a scratch :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:21 am
by TomW
Casey I'd put the skeg on the PH18 it has very little steering control at high speed and tends to do a lot of sliding in turns. It won't affect your draft as it will still be higher than the motors skeg. But check with some other PH builders to see what they think.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW wrote:Casey I'd put the skeg on the PH18 it has very little steering control at high speed and tends to do a lot of sliding in turns. It won't affect your draft as it will still be higher than the motors skeg. But check with some other PH builders to see what they think.
I'm thinking more along the lines of limiting draft while at rest, not while moving across the water. I'm loading up so much hardware on this boat that ever inch I gain back will help. I want to minimize it as much as I possibly can.
Cracker Larry wrote: It's aluminum flat bar, 1/4" X 1 1/4". Just wait until you come back and hear that sucker crunching oysters :lol: We'll crunch them up all day long, then you can look underneath when we haul her out. It won't have a scratch :D
I'll plan for one of these then, and I can't wait to get back out there to SC!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:55 am
by TomW
I'm thinking more along the lines of limiting draft while at rest, not while moving across the water. I'm loading up so much hardware on this boat that ever inch I gain back will help. I want to minimize it as much as I possibly can.
Gotcha! :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More goodies arrived from Bateau. I always like packages full of boat building stuff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
And it's your centennial, your thread just hit 100 pages 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:And it's your centennial, your thread just hit 100 pages 8)
Woot Woot!!!!! :lol:

This paternity leave rocks! I'm getting serious work done on the boat and all our friends keep bringing us food! So I sand with one hand and eat with the other. I need to have more kids. :P

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have been building up some laminates of wood on my reverse chine by simply adding filler to the regular System Three laminating epoxy. It has worked well.

However, I have some gel magic for vertical glue joints, I just have more of the regular stuff and would prefer to use it. Anybody see a problem with this? I mean realistically I'm looking at about 12 laminates making up the reverse chine, which will then be covered in two layers of fiberglass when I cover the hull. I think it's gonna be fine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I think I answered my own question. Here are the properties for the laminating epoxy and the GelMagic. They both are stronger than snot and more than enough for this little boat.

Laminating Resin

Tensile Strength, psi (ASTM D638) 7,900
Tensile Elongation (ASTM D638) 8.0%
Tensile Modulus, psi(ASTM D638) 390,000
Flexural Strength, psi(ASTM D790) 13,000
Flexural Modulus, psi(ASTM D790) 420,000
Heat Deflection Temperature, ° F 128
Compressive Strength, psi(ASTM D695): at yield 13,000 at failure 26,000

GelMagic
Tensile Strength, psi 7600
Tensile Elongation at break 7.0%
Flexural Strength, psi 13,000
Flexural Modulus, psi 410,000
Compressive Yield Strength, psi 13,000
Heat Deflection Temperature, ° F 140

I also read on the bottle where they have directions for thickening it with filler for this type of application.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:15 pm
by TomW
flyfish2743 wrote:I think I answered my own question. Here are the properties for the laminating epoxy and the GelMagic. They both are stronger than snot and more than enough for this little boat.

Laminating Resin

Tensile Strength, psi (ASTM D638) 7,900
Tensile Elongation (ASTM D638) 8.0%
Tensile Modulus, psi(ASTM D638) 390,000
Flexural Strength, psi(ASTM D790) 13,000
Flexural Modulus, psi(ASTM D790) 420,000
Heat Deflection Temperature, ° F 128
Compressive Strength, psi(ASTM D695): at yield 13,000 at failure 26,000

GelMagic
Tensile Strength, psi 7600
Tensile Elongation at break 7.0%
Flexural Strength, psi 13,000
Flexural Modulus, psi 410,000
Compressive Yield Strength, psi 13,000
Heat Deflection Temperature, ° F 140

I also read on the bottle where they have directions for thickening it with filler for this type of application.
You got it Casey! Laminating resin is fine if you have it. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent! Thanks Tom. I'll keep chugging away then.

Epoxy Cure Time

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
:help: I mixed up four small batches of epoxy about 50 hours ago. It's SilverTip resin with slow hardener. It has not set up yet. It is acting like it wants to but it is still tacky. If I poke through the surface that has somewhat cured it is even more sticky on the inside. It was a new bottle of epoxy that I opened.

The hardener is the same bottle I have been using since day one. Tomorrow morning I'll be right at 72 hours. The temps have been in the low 60s. Thoughts? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:14 pm
by topwater
Flyfish i use silver tip and slow for all my boat so far, my shop is 65 degrees all winter
and it is always setup dry to the touch in 12 hours or so. Sorry for the bad news :(

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Well Casey, I hate to say it, and I know you probably don't think so, but you probably mixed it wrong. The only batches I've had not set where when I mixed 1 part resin to 2 parts resin :P

Seriously I doubt it's bad epoxy. Mix a 3 ounce test batch, use it on something else and see what happens. Then get out your scrapers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:21 pm
by wegcagle
Yeah, I once mixed 2 parts slow hardener with 1 part medium hardener :oops: :oops: :oops:

As Larry has said before...It's ain't nothing but a thing. You can try to get some heat to it to see if it'll set. Worst case scenario scrape/sand it off, curse alittle at yourself, scratch your head, curse some more, regain your composure, and get back on it.

It has certainly happened to just about everybody who's mixed epoxy.

She's looks beautiful from the peanut gallery :D

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I figure I mixed wrong. However, this means I mixed four consecutive batches incorrectly, which seems odd when I have mixed prob 50 other small batches for the reverse chine in the same manor with the same cups. I clean the cups after I measure and they all worked. The only thing I know I did differently was grab a new gallon of resin. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
A small test mix will point to the error, either way. That's all you can do. I've never heard of bad epoxy, but there are things I've never heard of :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm sure it user "Casey" error. I prob spaced out. I'll do a test batch just to make sure.

To safeguard against this I'm going to measure the two products in two separate cups of the same size and set them adjacent to one another. Then I can quickly do a visual/mental check to see that the ratios look proper, which in my case is a 2:1, before pouring them into the same container.

Well... I'm off to Home Depot to pick up a heat gun and lacquer thinner. This will make a good blog post. I'll turn lemmons into lemons aid. "Come on Colton! We're going to Home Depot!!" :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
wegcagle wrote:
She's looks beautiful from the peanut gallery :D

Will
Thank you Will.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:22 pm
by Steven
flyfish2743 wrote:I'm sure it user "Casey" error. I prob spaced out. I'll do a test batch just to make sure.

To safeguard against this I'm going to measure the two products in two separate cups of the same size and set them adjacent to one another. Then I can quickly do a visual/mental check to see that the ratios look proper, which in my case is a 2:1, before pouring them into the same container.

Well... I'm off to Home Depot to pick up a heat gun and lacquer thinner. This will make a good blog post. I'll turn lemmons into lemons aid. "Come on Colton! We're going to Home Depot!!" :D
I'd caution against the two cup method on small batches. The smaller the batch the less room for error on mixing. You won't get all the material out of the cup you pour from. Anything I mix less than 6 oz. I do with pumps. I've never had a batch not cure. I occassionaly pump into a graduated cup just to ensure the pumps are pumping accurately. They're always right on the line. I make sure to puncture a relief hole on the bottle and I always prime the pump the first use of the day.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'd caution against the two cup method on small batches. The smaller the batch the less room for error on mixing.
Well, not really. The error tolerance is the same at about 10%. I haven't used pumps in years, tried them a few times and threw them away. I mix batches as small as 3/4 ounce in mixing cups. I buy these little 1 oz. graduated cups from mudhole.com and you can mix 1 cc to 2 cc with them if you want. 100 cups for $3.99. That's 4 cents each :!: They are great.

http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog ... ixing-Cups
Well... I'm off to Home Depot to pick up a heat gun
Heck, ya need one of those anyway :lol: You'll be wiring soon and have a lot of heat shrink tubing to install. Look at it as a good excuse to get another tool :lol: Everybody needs a heat gun.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:28 pm
by Steven
Cracker Larry wrote:
I'd caution against the two cup method on small batches. The smaller the batch the less room for error on mixing.
Well, not really. The error tolerance is the same at about 10%. I haven't used pumps in years, tried them a few times and threw them away. I mix batches as small as 3/4 ounce in mixing cups. I buy these little 1 oz. graduated cups from mudhole.com and you can mix 1 cc to 2 cc with them if you want. 100 cups for $3.99. That's 4 cents each :!: They are great.

http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog ... ixing-Cups
Well... I'm off to Home Depot to pick up a heat gun
Heck, ya need one of those anyway :lol: You'll be wiring soon and have a lot of heat shrink tubing to install. Look at it as a good excuse to get another tool :lol: Everybody needs a heat gun.
The error tolerance is the same but It seems like it would be easier to make a +10% error on a smaller batch. Those cups look great. One of my biggest wastes is from not being able to mix less than 3 oz. easily. I bet I've trashed gallons of mixed putty that I didn't have a use for after mixing too much for a small job. Gonna order some of them. Tried the little medicine cups that come with childrens tylenol, but they're not graduated for mixing epoxy. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:33 pm
by cali123
I bought Anchor brand glass measuring cups from Wal Mart. They have straight sides so there is no guesswork. I mixed down to one ounce with absolute accuracy. Smaller amounts were measured with the small cups that C L suggested. I used a lot of epoxy and never had a bad batch. When I finished the three gallon containers, I was way under 10% error. I did use small paint paddles to scrape the cups each time. :!: Shelby

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:34 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, I've wasted many gallons on small jobs too, until I found these. They have graduations all around, CC, ounces, teaspoons, drams, and you can accurately mix a teaspoon and a half with them. I mix in one cup, 2 parts to one part. Cost 4 cents. One word of caution, once you pour in the hardener the markings come off :doh: So pour the resin first :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have been mixing small batches in clear film containers. I marked the outside in 1/4 increments. It was worked well up until now. I don't remember smoking any weed on Tuesday night. I don't remember smoking any weed ever.

I must have totally missed something... it's just odd it happened on 4 batches back to back when I have almost become robotic with mixing these small batches with the film containers. That night I think I filled the container to the top for the resin and then to the 1/2 mark for the hardener... but obviously not.

So I now have the heat gun. I also picked up lacquer thinner that says on the front its great for cleaning epoxy. Is there anything special I need to do to the wood after I use the lacquer thinner?

As for the pumps, I just had one go out on my West System set up so I may not go back to them. It just gave up the ghost and it wasn't even all the way through the hardener container. However it was getting old.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't remember smoking any weed on Tuesday night.
Weed does that to you :lol:
I don't remember smoking any weed ever.
I'd be lying if I was to tell you that :lol:
Is there anything special I need to do to the wood after I use the lacquer thinner?
No, I don't think so, not sure that is even necessary. I've never gone to those extremes anyway. The couple of times I couldn't remember if I smoked weed on Tuesday, I just scraped it off, cleaned it with alcohol and moved on. It will be be fine Casey.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great. Thanks Larry!

Hey! When you coming to Texas anyway? You could swing by Steven's, Uncle D's and my place all in one trip. We would all feed you and Dory as you make your rounds.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:40 am
by Cracker Larry
When you coming to Texas anyway?
I don't know :doh: Only been there a few times in my life, not counting changing planes. Drove through the panhandle once going to California. Don't remember much but flat land with no trees and oil rigs. I think it was on a Tuesday :lol: I shrimped off the coast around South Padre one summer when I was a teenager. That was my kind of place but never made it back. Spent a week in San Antonio for a school, and a week in Dallas for another school.That's the only times I've been to Texas, except for switching planes and heading south. I know the airports pretty good. I'd really like to make the Texas meet this year, but with the Boca Grande meet in June and Mrs. Crackers vacation in early July, well ...hmmm..heck, it still could happen. Ya just never know. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well, It is the second largest state in the US. I figure you can find some cool stuff for you and the wife to do. :wink:

The Paloduro Canyon is beautiful. It's the second largest canyon in the USA. Quiet and scenic. It's one of my fav places in TX.


http://www.palodurocanyon.com/

As for the progress on the epoxy mishap. I tested a batch and its almost as hard as a rock. The only thing I can figure is I mixed the same ratio or I got them swapped.

I est about another 1.5 hours and I'll be back where I was before I put on the laminate. I'm thinking the angle grinder is going to speed things up quite a bit. I just tested it out and it looks like it's going to do the trick.

Thanks for everybody's input on this.

Casey

Chine Tripping

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I had lunch wiht Steven today and we were talking about chine tripping.

A courtesy search for chine tripping and chine walking with the words flats boat resulted in basically nothing. I figured some flats boat would pop up on some forum with the problem, but I did not see anything.

Do you think the reverse chine I am building onto the PH would give me any problems?

It's basically going to be a cross between the two following boat's reverse chines.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:25 pm
by Steven
I did some searching too, Casey. I found a few hits on boatdesign.net and thehulltruth.com for tripping with reverse chines. Not a lot of great detail. Pointed out as more of a problem on flatter V boats :) traveling at higher speeds and making sharp turns. Don't know how much merit to put in them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:31 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm not an expert on that, but I think chime tripping is more prevalent on flat bottoms that tend to slide in a turn. I've never seen it be a problem with V-hulls. Might be on some very shallow Vs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
That makes sense guys. I'm glad it won't be an issue. Thanks for looking into/brainstorming on it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm back on track after the epoxy failure. I've continued with the reverse chine, taking extra caution with the epoxy measurements and making sure to stir and stir and stir.

Live Well and Bait Well Pickups

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
As I approach fiber-glassing the hull, I want to round up any necessary hardware that will be coming through the bottom of the hull. This will give me not only the hole size, which I'm sure I can get online, but the object's approximate size.

Since I'll have both a live well and a bait well, will I need one of these for each well, assuming I have a pump for both the live well and the bait well?

Image

I also have two transducers going into the bottom of the hull. They will be glued just inside the fiberglass and will only have to sound through about 1/8 inch of epoxy, glass, graphite and paint. Anyone have any suggestions on placement? Port? Starboard? I'll have one in the front of the boat and one in the back.

Am I missing anything else that will be going through the bottom of the hull?

Thanks guys,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:03 am
by stickystuff
A cyprus stump. Ask me how I know.LOL 8O :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:05 am
by stickystuff
Chine tripping. I think Jacques first hull design on the OD 18 was notorius for chine tripping. Thats why he changes the hull bottom design.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
stickystuff wrote:A Cyprus stump. Ask me how I know.LOL 8O :lol:
I'll glue one in so I don't have to mess with it on the water. It will be my "preemptive-stump."

Re: Live Well and Bait Well Pickups

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:59 pm
by wadestep
flyfish2743 wrote:As I approach fiber-glassing the hull, I want to round up any necessary hardware that will be coming through the bottom of the hull. This will give me not only the hole size, which I'm sure I can get online, but the object's approximate size.

Since I'll have both a live well and a bait well, will I need one of these for each well, assuming I have a pump for both the live well and the bait well?

Image
Casey

Just as another option, you could use a single, larger, thru-hull and have it service both the live well and bait well. Just put a T in after the seacock, and simple in-line on/off valves after the T. That way you only need 1 hole through the hull for raw water, but can still shut off the water flow to either pump. Plus, you have 2 valves between the outside and each pump, incase of failure of one.

wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I was kinda thinking the same thing.

Good to see someone else thinks this is a good idea too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:24 am
by Cracker Larry
I'll third that opinion, that's what I would do.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Do you guys think a 1.5" will work? Or is that overkill.

They make it in .75", 1", 1.25" and 1.5".

I think the suction side of these pumps are .5 or .75 so doubling that would get me up to 1 to 1.5. However, I'm not real sure.

It will need to be able to supply both the live well and bait well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:41 am
by tech_support
flyfish2743 wrote:Do you guys think a 1.5" will work? Or is that overkill.

They make it in .75", 1", 1.25" and 1.5".

I think the suction side of these pumps are .5 or .75 so doubling that would get me up to 1 to 1.5. However, I'm not real sure.

It will need to be able to supply both the live well and bait well.

Casey
3/4" would probably be fine, but I do not think 1.25" is it too much, especialy since you will use both wells at the same time. I have never wished I had a smaller capacity to circulate water. You can always restrict flow with the size of pump and nozzles. I suppose you will use separate pumps for each well?

I will be putting a 1.25" on my seacraft, splitting it to feed wash down and a 40 gallon live well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
shine wrote: I suppose you will use separate pumps for each well?
I was thinking separate pumps, unless there is a good workaround. I doubt I will use either one very much. I haven't kept fish in my boat or bait fished in over 10 years.

However, if I tournament fish, I can see the live well coming in handy. And until my little children get old enough to fly fish, I will probably be doing some bait fishing with them.

Do you sell this kind of hardware? Or is it easier to go to one of the other places? (as in more of a nuisance for you then it is worth).

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:06 pm
by stickystuff
You are a funny man Casey. NO! It was not one of my most favorible moments.She still floats.Haven't seen her since I sold it. Over on the east coast around Melborne somewhere. Can't even remember the guys name that bought it. Miss ol Woody. :cry:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
:)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think the suction side of these pumps are .5 or .75 so doubling that would get me up to 1 to 1.5. However, I'm not real sure.
Yes the suction side of most pumps are 3/4. From what I remember of Cracker math, pie are squared should answer the question :lol:

A= pi (R2)

for a 3/4 inlet A= 3.1416 X ( .375 X .375) The area is .44 sq. inches

For a 1' inlet A= 3.1416 X ( .5 X.5) The area is .78 sq. inches. Almost twice as much. Probably large enough to easily supply 2 pumps.

For a 1 1/4 inlet A= 3.1416 X (.625 X .625). The area is 1.227 inches. Almost 3 times larger than a 3/4 inlet. More than large enough for any 2 pumps on a 18' boat :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent! And did you mention pie? Chocolate is good but it may make a mess on the boat, so let's settle for something with white iceing.

As for the math, that makes sense. I'll go with that 1.25 then.

Thank you for your time with this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:23 pm
by tech_support
flyfish2743 wrote:
shine wrote: Do you sell this kind of hardware?
Casey
not really, or at least not yet ..... I recently got set up directly with Forespar, so in the near future we will stock a range of marelon plumbing fittings. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great. Thank you for the update.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
And did you mention pie?
Pecan. Squared :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:41 pm
by Steven
shine wrote:not really, or at least not yet ..... I recently got set up directly with Forespar, so in the near future we will stock a range of marelon plumbing fittings. :D
How soon. I need a 1 1/2" Marelon inline valve. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:
And did you mention pie?
Pecan. Squared :lol:
:lol: Thats funny.

A few questions regarding hatches.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
A few questions regarding hatches.

To reduce weight and to make the build go faster, I'm looking to make only 4 hatches StickyStuff (Ken) has mentioned that he wished he had made fewer hatches on one of his Phantom's. I think Dougster (If that is the correct user name) stated the same about his Phantom.

Here are the four hatch locations.

- One hatch in the front deck (anchor locker).
- One hatch in bulkhead B to access the fuel tanks.
- One long hatch under the bench seat to access the live well and bait well.
- One hatch in front of the motor to access the the area between bulkhead E and the transom.


With only one hatch in front of the motor, will I have enough room to access the area between bulkhead E and the transom? This is what is shown on the plans and I like it. I don't plan to store anything back there that I'll need to get to when on the water. I plan to mount on the starboard and port sides the electronics for the trim and troll, the fuel water separator, oil for the engine and the pump for the jack plate. In the center, at the very bottom of the boat, will be the pump for the bilge, the bait well, and the live well.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Casey

P.S. I'm not at this part of the build yet. However, I would like to start to round up the hardware so it's ready when I need it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a pic of the latest reverse chine work. It's coming along nicely. The chine is CRAZY stiff now that I have added the laminates. There will be zero droopy hull when I turn this boat over.

You can see in this pic the shop lights I installed before I started the build. I put up 14 48" fluorescents. I also added the Jet air filter and a Delta vac system, both with remotes. You can see one of the branch lines for the vac system under the shelf behind my right arm. These additions to the shop are making all the difference.

My mom took this pic this morning as I headed off to work. She came down to visit for a few nights and help with the new baby. She's also helping me on the boat, handing me clamps and such. She's great.

That reminds me... I better get a mother's day gift! :!: :!: :!:

Did any of you guys see my post just before this? I'm still needing some feedback. Thanks.

Image

Re: A few questions regarding hatches.

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:39 pm
by timmydafool
flyfish2743 wrote:A few questions regarding hatches.

To reduce weight and to make the build go faster, I'm looking to make only 4 hatches StickStuff (Ken) has mentioned that he wished he had made fewer hatches on one of his Phantom's. I think Dougster (If that is the correct user name) stated the same about his Phantom.

Here are the four hatch locations.

- One hatch in the front deck (anchor locker).
- One hatch in bulkhead B to access the fuel tanks.
- One long hatch under the bench seat to access the live well and bait well.
- One hatch in front of the motor to access the the area between bulkhead E and the transom.


.

hmmmmm... :doh: This looks alot like an email I received recently... did I inspire some thinking?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ha. Actually I swiped it off the forum, two posts back, and pasted it into your email. I had just been considering it before you and I got to chatting about them via email.

However, I'm still waiting on Ken to chime in..... :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Planning on ordering the remainder of the Blue Seas electronics this weekend. I almost have all of the hardware and electronics rounded up. Once she is complete and we have started to either buy a trailer or build one, I will probably order the motor.

Casey

Drains for live well and bait well.

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm planning on supplying the live well and bait well with one 1100 GPH pump.

I will have over flows that go out the back, but I'm curious if anybody see any problems with having the live well and bait well tanks drain into the bilge?

Thanks

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:48 pm
by cape man
Take the drains out the back or sides, not to the bilge. Just have to pump it out again which makes no sense. My baitwell overflows through the side of the boat and works great. 1.5" hole at the waterline in the well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote:Take the drains out the back or sides, not to the bilge. Just have to pump it out again which makes no sense. My baitwell overflows through the side of the boat and works great. 1.5" hole at the waterline in the well.
Capeman,

Capeman,

I was planning on the overflows going out the back, similar to how yours go out the side. What I'm referring to is the drain at the very bottom of the live well and bait well tanks. I wasn't real interested in making another hole in the bottom of the transom for these drains and assumed I would either just drain them into bilge where they would drain out the bilge through a drain plug when I trailer the boat. Still a bad idea?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:52 pm
by cape man
That'll do fine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cooool

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:40 pm
by timmydafool
On my Key west the baitwell and fishbox drain out the transom I like that better cuz they can drain while still in the water... without putting water in the bulge.
The one flaw to that design that is most prevalent to me is that if you intend to use your bait tank for a drybox for the day you HAVE to remember to put the plug in. there is nothing worse than wanting to dry off after playing around swimming and such to find that water had backwashed into the compartments and soaked everything...

I've figured out that every time I reverse or come off plane the back splash is enough pressure to force water back into the compartments and bait tanks... :roll:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well I'm afraid that my bait well and live well may sit below the water line so the only way for me to drain it while on the water will be to pump it out. And if I'm going to pump it out I figure the bilge is the best place for it to empty. While on the trailer I can just pull the plug on the bilge compartment and let it drain out that way.

I'll sketch the plan I have in my head up on paper and get your feedback. You can tell me what you think. Maybe the transom will work after all.

Stuff i plan to order this week.

I was hoping this last weekend to round up a lot of the little odds and ends I still needed to order for the boat... but it didn't happen. A wedding in Oklahoma got in the way. Maybe this week.

I plan to order some sweet billet boxes for the future blue top optima batteries. There will be three batteries total.
A few killer fuse boxes and breaker panels from Blue Sea along with some bus bars will hopefully be ordered as well. Along with a light for the inside of the center console and a red and white dome light to be mounted under the poling platform.

I hope to also order a Rule pump for the bait well and live well along with a high speed water pick up grate for the hull, maybe some plumbing odds and ends and possibly the bilge pump.

Any thoughts on the size I should get for the bilge pump?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 4:46 pm
by tobolamr
Well, I own a boat with live wells and tourney fish, so I figure I can be of a little help here! :lol:

Bilge pump size - I think the bigger, the better. Stickystuff can tell the tale again of how he put a small stump through the hull and ran it 4 1/2 miles to the ramp again... But I know when my 500gph dies, I'm putting in something over 1,000gph. Just my thoughts.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've got a 2000 gph bilge pump in my OD 18, and an 800 gph bait well pump that can back it up if necessary. It ain't never been necessary :D But if it ever is, I want the water going out faster than it's coming in.

Pump for Bait Well and Live Well on Flats Boat

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - Do you think I will need a sump pump that big?

For the bait well and the live well I think I'm gonna order the 1100 GPH tournament series dual port pump from Rule. It will feed both wells. We calculated the volume. Assuming we design the compartments below the bench seat to have a 20 gallon bait well and a 50 gallon live well, this pump should be the ticket. Here is the description of the pump.

Brand new design. Innovative pump design includes new features like a quick one hand push-button motor cartridge removal system, rotatable base that allows you to position the discharge nozzle at any location, and threaded nylon hose barb attachments, which allow for various hose mounting options. Also included is a built-in dual port option, water-cooled housing and a positive snap motor cartridge locking mechanism.


As for the bilge, is there an advantage to the pump set up where the pump is up high and a hose goes to the bottom of the bilge?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:06 am
by Cracker Larry
Larry - Do you think I will need a sump pump that big?
I don't know, I do. Depends on how big a stump you hit, I reckon :lol: Ya never know what the future might bring. If it brings a lot of water I want to be able to pump it out. 99.9% of the time no, I don't need a pump that big. 99.9% of the time I don't need life jackets, flares, first aid kit, or EPIRBS either. My experience with boats has taught me to always plan for the worst and let the best take care of itself.
As for the bilge, is there an advantage to the pump set up where the pump is up high and a hose goes to the bottom of the bilge
No.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
I knew that would be your answer. :wink:

I'll order a large bildge pump then. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I think I have narrowed it down to the following pump. I believe this is the pump you have Larry. Maybe it's overkill. I could drop back a size and save on some weight and space and still be at 2,200 GPH.

http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/runo12vodcbi8.html

Thoughts

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Well, I own a boat with live wells and tourney fish, so I figure I can be of a little help here! :lol:

Bilge pump size - I think the bigger, the better. Stickystuff can tell the tale again of how he put a small stump through the hull and ran it 4 1/2 miles to the ramp again... But I know when my 500gph dies, I'm putting in something over 1,000gph. Just my thoughts.
I just now saw this. Good input. I'm looking at either 2,200 or 3,100 depending on the bilge pump.

I'm sure I am over thinking it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think I have narrowed it down to the following pump. I believe this is the pump you have Larry.

Very close. That one will be fine but I prefer to get them with a separate float switch, rather than the built in type.

From that same site, this is the pump I have. http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/runo12vodcbi5.html I use it with the non-enclosed float switch here http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/ruflswmo35an.html This will save about $50 too :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Do you also have a three way switch on your console?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, that's not necessary and I don't like them wired like that. The automatic side is wired straight to the battery, always on, no switch, no fuse, nothing. The manual side goes to a rocker switch on the console, which is fused.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok that makes sense. Why do you dislike the internal switch? I'm game for whichever is best, just curious.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:40 pm
by BassMunn
Agree with Larry on the large bilge pump and on the separate float switch. If either the switch or the pump pack up you only have to replace 1 part not the whole setup.

A bilge pump needs to be situated at the lowest point of the boat pumping up and out to allow the maximum amount of water to be removed from the boat.

For your livewell water level question I have a few suggestions.
Firstly you could install a 500gph aerator pump in the well and just plumb it out the boat, it's known as a pump out feature. It won't get all the water out but will get most of it.

I run 1 main drain for my livewell which acts as both an overflow and a drain, I used a stand pipe which sets your water level in the well depending on the height and then I just unscrew it and the well drains until it gets to water level. In my boat this left about 4" of water in the well. When you jump up on plane the balance drains out, but will come back in as soon as you come off plane. As soon as you stop screw the stand pipe back in and it keeps the water out.
I did install another drain which just dumps into the bilge to clear the last 1" of water out the well when it's on trailer.
I fitted my pipe right in the centre of the well to prevent fish getting stuck between the pipe and the sides of the well, but it looks odd

Here you can see the stand pipe removed
Image

Here it is screwed in
Image

The outlet from the well is the fitting on the left hand side, the right hand side is the livewell intake
Image

Another option you could do is to run 2 drain holes out the well, 1 at livewell water level and 1 for the draining and just join them to a T joint and plumb the final pipe out the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. So the bilge is all figured out then. I'll order the pump and the switch.
BassMunn wrote: Another option you could do is to run 2 drain holes out the well, 1 at livewell water level and 1 for the draining and just join them to a T joint and plumb the final pipe out the hull.
I like what you have suggested. Thank you for taking the time to post.

I found a pump that will move 1100 GPH into the live well and bait well at the same time. It's split with some kind of T inside the pump. That sounds like the ticket for filling it up. However, I was planning on going through the bottom of the hull with a high speed pick up. I see you chose to run your pickup out the back. Any reason? It seems like it would struggle to pick up water while on plane.

I plan to use the area under the seat between bulkheads D and E (70 percent for the live well and 30 percent for the bait well). I think I'll drop the stringers just 2 inches in this area to deepen the wells. This will still give me the 6 inches of fiberglassed stringers required for strength. I then plan to beef up between the stringers some just to be safe. This will make the the total depth of the live well and bait well 14 inchs. We estimate a maximum of 25 gallons for the bait well and 75 for the live well, assuming I even filled it to the top, which I doubt I will.

Thoughts?
Cracker Larry wrote:I use it with the non-enclosed float switch here http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/ruflswmo35an.html This will save about $50 too :wink:
Larry - Why preference on the non-enclosed?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:32 pm
by Steven
BassMunn wrote:Another option you could do is to run 2 drain holes out the well, 1 at livewell water level and 1 for the draining and just join them to a T joint and plumb the final pipe out the hull.
That's how I did mine. I was going to go with the stand pipe but decided I didn't like having a fitting I couldn't easily service and I didn't plan for handling any potential water under that area of the sole. It's completley sealed and foamed. I have easy access to all the fittings on the front side of the well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
What kind of fitting did you use for the drain in the well and for the drain through the hull?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
So now that I have the pump figured out, Rule Non-Automatic Bilge Pump 2000 GPH, I'm researching which switch to get.

After reading threads that people are having so many problems with Rule switches, including myself (we had a heck of a time with them in the pool industry), I think I'm leaning towards the Ultra Pump Switch Sr.

From what I'm finding people are getting, 10 and 15 years of use with this switch with no problems or maintenance. It also has a lifetime warranty and comes with a high water alarm. I understand you still have to keep the bilge clean, which I would do anyway.

I looked into the Water Witch a lot tonight as well and I think I'll pass on that one. It sounds like it gets pretty finicky with just a little bit of dirt or oil. It would be my second choice. I do like how compact they look.

As for my question earlier to Larry about the reasoning behind the open switch vs. the covered switch, I found the answer. I didn't doubt he had a good answer, I just was curious to know what the reasoning behind it was. Below is what I found and here is the website. If I was leaning toward the Rule switch I would be going with the one he suggested.

Open Versus Covered Switches. The enclosed float switch would seem like the ideal solution to switch fouling problems except for one thing: you can't see or test the switch. Further, the enclosed switch is just as likely to become clogged with sludge and things like hair in the bilge as the open switch. Only now you can't even see it. The only problem they really solve is water surge damage. The open switch is the better choice as long as you clean it once in a while, and locate it so that its protected from water surge.

A related question. Can you even sink a Phantom? With all the foam I suppose not. I wonder what this guy had? :help: :help: :help:

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:46 am
by Cracker Larry
As for my question earlier to Larry about the reasoning behind the open switch vs. the covered switch, I found the answer. I didn't doubt he had a good answer, I just was curious to know what the reasoning behind it was. Below is what I found and here is the website. If I was leaning toward the Rule switch I would be going with the one he suggested.
Open Versus Covered Switches. The enclosed float switch would seem like the ideal solution to switch fouling problems except for one thing: you can't see or test the switch. Further, the enclosed switch is just as likely to become clogged with sludge and things like hair in the bilge as the open switch. Only now you can't even see it. The only problem they really solve is water surge damage. The open switch is the better choice as long as you clean it once in a while, and locate it so that its protected from water surge.
Yep, that would have been my answer too :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:48 am
by wadestep
I think you can't go wrong with the decisions you've made. Just for the record, however, you can test the closed float switches. There's a knob on either side that you use to manually lift the enclosed float, thus making sure the bilge pump comes on. I have a closed version, and test it every time I go out.
http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/rupl20amp12v.html
"Manual testing feature allows for operations check"
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Wade and Larry- Good input! Wade, I did not know they had a test on them. Thank you.

So now I seem to have the sump pump, live well pump and automatic switch with alarm all ready to order all selected.

A few questions about drains and scuppers.

I understand a scupper is basically like a check valve for a boat. Is this correct?

What kind of through hull fittings do you use for the various drains? I see Attwood makes some really nice ones. I also see some plastic ones. I would prefer to go with metal. I assume you are using a through hull bulkhead fitting for the sump pump drain and for the live well and bait well drains that have to plumbed. I also assume you are using a brass tube for a drain in the bilge that is closed with a plug. Is this correct? Any suggestions as to which ones to order? I don't mind spending a little extra.

I'm also interested in finding a good through hull fitting for the thermometer cable that is attached to my transducer. There is also a cable for the little water wheel that tells me speed over water. I have found a nice plastic one from Jamestown Distributors that allows the cable to be sealed and then exits the transom at what looks like a 90 degree turn downward from the transom wall. However, I would like to find a metal one but haven't seen any that really jump out to me. All of them appear to simply pass the cable through the transom but not at an angle downward. I have found some nice mini clam shell vents that would work too I suppose...

As for the hull I plan to drain out the side like Larry's with brass pipe.

Thoughts? Feedback?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:35 pm
by Steven
Thu-hulls below the water line should be Marelon or Bronze/Stainless. For my livewell drain, I have a 1 1/2" Bronze thru-hull. That's what I picked up the day we had lunch. The pickup is bronze and I'm going to use a Bronze threaded drain for the bilge.

If you use enough flotation foam, it will be unsinkable. The main concern with keeping water out is stability. Floating upsided down is better than sinking, but only marginally so. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:If you use enough flotation foam, it will be unsinkable. The main concern with keeping water out is stability. Floating upsided down is better than sinking, but only marginally so. :)
I'll paint on the bottom of my hull, "If you're reading this I'm screwed!" in big bright letters.

Sounds good on the hardware. Keep an eye out for any nice ways to run cable out the transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:47 pm
by tobolamr
flyfishingmonk wrote:I'll paint on the bottom of my hull, "If you're reading this I'm screwed!" in big bright letters.
If you actually do this, I will personally drive down and take you out for dinner. I promise!

For what it's worth, my temp gauge on my ProCraft has its' own fitting that is attached to the hull just above the bottom of the hull. It works and gives a reading even at WOT. Don't know if that helps, but it's what I know! :doh: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:54 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote: I'll paint on the bottom of my hull, "If you're reading this I'm screwed!" in big bright letters.
My brother from the Coast Guard would be most appreciative as well. :D He tried to get me to buy white graphite so I could cover the bottom of my hull in checker board pattern. Black and white are fine just as long as there is a pattern that catches the eye. 8)

But, I was to lazy to tape off that much space. :oops:

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:50 pm
by Cracker Larry
Floating upsided down is better than sinking, but only marginally so. :)
Oh no, floating upside down is far preferable to sinking :!: You can lay on that hull bottom much longer than you can tread water :lol: Almost all outboard power boats will roll upside down when swamped, you can pretty much count on that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:30 pm
by Alabamajon
Almost all outboard power boats will roll upside down when swamped, you can pretty much count on that.

I'm new here so I hope I did this right, but with upright flotation as now required in smaller boats under a certain size they should not capsize, agree older and those above that size will turn turtle. I have been looking at a lot of boats to replace my tired old flats/bass boat, so have been bombarded with rules on what's best what you should look for why buy mine or mine or mine, so when I found this site I almost breathed a sigh of relief.

I pulled 4 people out of a SeaRay that forgot to put a plug in or some other dang fool thing, that were standing in it up to the gunnels, called the Sheriff and waited till he came and towed as I sure couldn't in my flats boat with all that water in it.

And I sure agree with Mr. Larry that laying on the bottom is preferable to any other alternative.

Jon

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry and Alabamajon - I have two part foam here at the house that I ordered with the epoxy so it will be unsinkable but I suppose capsizing could happen easy enough. And Alabamajon, welcome to the forum.

Mad Dog - I like the checker idea. I did not know they made white graphite. Or are you pulling my leg?

tobolamr - Will doing anything crazy for safety on the underside of the hull constitute a free dinner? Can you round up a picture of this ProCraft fitting?

I cast a fly rod tonight for my buddy to see if it was any good before he purchased it. It was. The fellow we purchased it from has stage four tongue cancer and had just finished up his 38th radiation treatment. You could tell it was really taking its toll. My buddy and I prayed for him right there in the Lowe's parking lot. It was heart breaking. :( He left in good spirits :)

This is prob a stupid question, but what about scuppers for the cockpit drains instead of the fitted drain pipe? Attwood makes some really nice ones that seem like they could be cut down to size to fit. Here is a pic.

Image

Here is the best option I have found for the wires to the thermometer and the paddle wheel.

Image

Do you guys know of a threaded through hull fitting for the drain in the bilge that is stainless steel and not bronze?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:22 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote: This is prob a stupid question, but what about scuppers for the cockpit drains instead of the fitted drain pipe? Attwood makes some really nice ones that seem like they could be cut down to size to fit. Here is a pic.

Image

Here is the best option I have found for the wires to the thermometer and the paddle wheel.

Image

Do you guys know of a threaded through hull fitting for the drain in the bilge that is stainless steel and not bronze?
Not clear on the scupper question. That's what they're designed for so I know I'm missing the point. :) Do you mean to drain from the cockpit into the bilge for pumping out?


I like the fitting for the wires. Needs to be above the waterline if it's not Marelon.

West Maring Garboard drain

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I like that drain plug. It looks like a good one. I see it's from Attwood.

As for the through hull fitting for the cables, I'm not sure if its Marelon. However, it would be above the water line.

Here is what I mean by scuppers for the cockpit drain. Larry has a nice set up on his Dory. He used a couple of the drain pipes below and they empty right out the side. Normally a simple plug would be put in to keep any outside water from coming in.

What I'm curious to know is could a person use the scupper from Attwood and not have to mess with the plugs, assuming the threaded pipe was cut flush inside of the hull. However, I figure the nut would keep the pipe from resting flush with the recess in the bottom of the sole and may trap water and grime.


Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 pm
by Steven
Gotcha. They make separate scupper flaps you can attach on the outside over the hole. Most reports on the flapper scuppers is they are not very effective. From Attwood as well:

Image

Larry's solution is good because you only have the plugs pulled if you have to drain a lot of water, in which case, you won't be worried about a little water back washing in. On plane very little watter would come in. Incidental water goes into the bilge and is pumped out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Makes sense. I'll order the pipe. However, I thought these were the only drains in the cockpit. Are you suggesting I need it to drain to the bilge as well?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:12 am
by Cracker Larry
with upright flotation as now required in smaller boats under a certain size they should not capsize, agree older and those above that size will turn turtle.
Welcome to the forum Alabamajon! If you believe that, I've got some ocean front property for sale in Idaho :lol: Outboard boats when completely swamped are very unstable and most hull designs will roll over with the slightest provocation or wave action. I ran a tow and rescue service for several years out of Savannah before Sea Tow came to town. I've salvaged dozens of sunk boats and almost all outboard powered boat were capsized. The power head of the outboard will hold it upside down. Here is a late model 19' Mako with approved level flotation. She is almost level anyway :lol:

Image
I pulled 4 people out of a SeaRay that forgot to put a plug in or some other dang fool thing, that were standing in it up to the gunnels,
I'd be willing to bet it was an inboard/outboard? With inboards the weight on the engine tends to keep them right side up. With outboards, the weight of the engine tends to keep them upside down, generally speaking.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:20 am
by Cracker Larry
I thought these were the only drains in the cockpit. Are you suggesting I need it to drain to the bilge as well?
I do, I have one 1 1/4 drain in the center of the cockpit that drains to the bilge sump.

Image
What I'm curious to know is could a person use the scupper from Attwood and not have to mess with the plugs, assuming the threaded pipe was cut flush inside of the hull. However, I figure the nut would keep the pipe from resting flush with the recess in the bottom of the sole and may trap water and grime.
Huck used those same scuppers for the side drains on his TX18. He cut the threaded pipe flush to the hull side, but the big nut keeps it from being flush to the bottom. He solved this by making a trough, or ditch? along the back edge of the sole. The TX has a very high sole too. None of those flapper things will keep the water out if the sole is not above water, and I'm not sure how you could plug it? Plumber's expanding pipe plugs maybe? If you can't plug it tight, I don't want it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:33 am
by Prarie Dog
Steven wrote:Gotcha. They make separate scupper flaps you can attach on the outside over the hole. Most reports on the flapper scuppers is they are not very effective. From Attwood as well:

Image

Larry's solution is good because you only have the plugs pulled if you have to drain a lot of water, in which case, you won't be worried about a little water back washing in. On plane very little watter would come in. Incidental water goes into the bilge and is pumped out.
These scupper/flappy things are worthless. I have them no my GF and wish I had never seen them. Grandpa is now building some blocks to put the tubes in so that plugs can go in the inside. If you ever boat where it's cold they are NFG.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:49 am
by Cracker Larry
If you ever boat where it's cold they are NFG.
They are NFG where it's warm too :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'll go with the pipe then. I thought the scuppers looked kinda problematic.

I like that drain to the bilge as well. Thoughts on recessing it in the floor verses in the bulkhead?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:50 pm
by Uncle D
Personally I like CL's set up. I will probably go with it on mine. I'm going to go one step further though. I'll add about a 1/2 in. backing under the sole and mill down the area in front of the drain so I can lower the drain level or even below the level of the sole.

edit:Casey, you posted before I finished typing, but that's where I was going.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:36 pm
by tobolamr
http://www.blueheronmarine.com/NMEA-018 ... T80-S-6523

The above is kinda like what I have. My wiring runs out through the wiring tube coming into the motor well, and then runs down the outside of the transom to the fitting like in the URL above. Mine is plastic, though. It was on the boat when I bought it. So my wiring does NOT go through my hull.

It's not that the painting of lettering on the bottom is "food-worthy." It's just fun! And fun sometimes earns an "Atta Boy!" :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:51 pm
by davidtx
Uncle D wrote:Personally I like CL's set up. I will probably go with it on mine. I'm going to go one step further though. I'll add about a 1/2 in. backing under the sole and mill down the area in front of the drain so I can lower the drain level or even below the level of the sole.

edit:Casey, you posted before I finished typing, but that's where I was going.
That sounds like what Huck did on his TX-18. It gives you a gutter across the back and lets you lower the drains. I wish I'd seen it before I installed my sole.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:It's not that the painting of lettering on the bottom is "food-worthy." It's just fun! And fun sometimes earns an "Atta Boy!" :D
You know I'm just teasing.

That little thermometer is a lot like the one I have.

As for the recess, I was planning on putting one in each corner so if gunk collects it only collects in the corners and not the full width of the cockpit sole.

Now with Larry's additional suggestion for one in the middle, I will add one there as well. But I will have to put it in the floor and pass it down under the bulkhead through the floor, since the live well will be there.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:39 pm
by Steven
davidtx wrote:
Uncle D wrote:Personally I like CL's set up. I will probably go with it on mine. I'm going to go one step further though. I'll add about a 1/2 in. backing under the sole and mill down the area in front of the drain so I can lower the drain level or even below the level of the sole.

edit:Casey, you posted before I finished typing, but that's where I was going.
That sounds like what Huck did on his TX-18. It gives you a gutter across the back and lets you lower the drains. I wish I'd seen it before I installed my sole.
I saw it and fully intended to do that and completely forgot to. Still kicking myself for that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
now that's a bummer

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I am planning on having two dry storage boxes to the left and right of the bilge. I'm wanting them to drain into the bilge so I can easily clean them and in case I spring a leak in one of the boxes.

I think I would prefer to go out the bottom of the dry storage rather than out the side into the bilge. I wasn't planning on installing a pipe but just a piece of hardware that will hold a plug. My thought is to remove the plug and allow the water to go down through the box below and into the bilge via a small half moon cut out at the bottom of the stringer. I would make sure to have the two part foam clear just enough for the water to flow out. I would also do the same from my front two hatches but those I would run with a PVC drain pipe.

Thoughts?

Here is what I found. They are both bronze. I like the one that looks stainless better. I also like that the plug sits flush. However, there is a large price difference between the two.

Image

Image

On a side note. My 4 week baby just barfed all over me.... ahh well.

I am thinking this for the bait well and live well overflow dome. I like the looks of this one the best.

Image

And I am thinking this for the bait well and live well drain. I will pass this through bulkhead E and into the bilge area where it will meet with the overflow drain and go out the transom via a through hull fitting.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:25 am
by Steven
How will you shut off the drain? I'm having a heck of a time finding a simple valve for this. I used a 1" through hull. I figured it would be easy to find a small inline valve.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Are you referring to the drain at the bottom of the live and bait well? I was planning on using a plug, but I suppose you could use an inline ball valve as well. Maybe go with a through hull fitting that you can thread the ball valve onto right after it comes out of the live well. Are we talking about the same thing here?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Image

On a side note. My 4 week baby just barfed all over me.... ahh well.
Some days you wish infants came with one of these. :D

Seriously though, I have this drain on my boat. The threads are standard pipe. If you want a flush plug I would pick up a PVC pipe plug with a square or hex drive. That way you save $$, have a flush fitting and no corrosion issues.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:48 am
by Steven
A plug will work but on mine, the hole is larger than a standard 1" plug. :oops: I'd suggested finding a plug to fit your drain before installing it. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven and Mad Dog - Makes sense on both accounts.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:01 am
by Steven
I think I'll run to the toy store today and test their various plugs on the through hull I used for the drain.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
I was considering going there but then got looped into a lunch.... something about my best friend here at work having his last day on staff. Don't they know I'm trying to build a boat!?!?!?!?!?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:04 pm
by Steven
They have the drain you are going to use. I'll see if any plugs fit the ones they carry. I'm heading over.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Coool. Let me know.

I may get by there tomorrow to check it out and to pick up some filler.

Thank you for your help.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:20 pm
by Steven
They didn't have a stopper big enough. The biggest they had was 1 1/4". Thos type drains have a large opening and then neck down to the hose size. Plus, you'll need a stopper that doesn't have a lip. The bottom of the drain hole is flush with the L piece that is bent forwards. Might be hard to stopper.

Bass Pro shops has a remote operated drain valve that fits a 3/4" hose. Less than 30 bucks and compact. Would be nice to drain the tank at the flip of a switch. I might reduce my hose down and use that if I don't have luck with a stopper. I think the 1 1/4 will work on mine. If not, I'll by a chemistry bottle type stopper of the correct size and replace the rubber with that. You might be able to do that too, since they don't have a lip.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I know the pool industry has a lot of different stoppers as well for leak detection. They are beefy and not very expensive. They come in about every size under the sun.

Here is an example. The handle makes them easier to stick into a bulkhead fitting.

http://store.leaktools.com/mm5/merchant ... y_Code=BHP

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
Plumbing supply stores carry rubber expansion plugs in every standard pipe size.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
good call!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I may just end up putting a ball valve in the hose since where the bulkhead fitting passes into is the bilge and then out the transom.

Hatches, Latches, Hinges and Springs

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everybody,

I'm researching hatches, latches, hinges and springs. Does anyone know of a hidden latch that could be designed to incorporate a pull of some sort to release it? The reason I suggest this is because I hate having stuff that potentially catches the fly line or wiggles while standing on it.

I'm also interested in any threads you know of that have some really nice custom hatches.

I think I will use a billet style hinge like this.

Image

And maybe a gas spring to keep the hatch open.

Image

Here is what I found for a latch. However, I'm thinking about custom making one that is totally hidden and is opened with a pull. Any suggestions?

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:24 pm
by Steven
I've been mulling over the latch question for my rear deck hatches. I'm thinking about rare earth magnets and a recessed integrated pull.

Gonna have to give Larry's suggestion a try for the livewell plug. 1" is too small, 1 1/4" is too big. The 1" plug is actually 7/8' diameter. The 1" drain is a true 1" inside diameter.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
We'll find a plug that will work sooner or later.

Will these magnets have the strength to hold the hatches closed considering how much of an impact the boat has on the water? Do they make something like this for the marine industry?

It sounds like a neat idea

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:20 am
by Steven
They are extremely powerful. A small 1/2" diameter has 8# of pulling force. If you glued a couple in the hatch and a couple with poles opposed where it closes, you'd have 32# of force holding it closed. Not sure how well it would work in practice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I did a search last night and it looks like people are using them on kayak hatches with some success.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

I was getting ready to order my Rule bilge pump, the one like yours, and was wondering if it's worth going from the 2,000 Rule up to the 2,000 Rule Gold?

I see it's a few more bucks but it comes with a better warranty. However the warranty can be a pain to collect sometimes when ordering online. I cant find a weight for it.

A related question... are the Johnson pumps any good. I see they make a 2,200 GPH pump. Just curious.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
was wondering if it's worth going from the 2,000 Rule up to the 2,000 Rule Gold?
I've had both and I really think they are the exact same pump with a better warranty. I've never seen a Rule pump fail and never known anyone to ever need the warranty. I don't know anything about about Johnson pumps, never used one, never even seen one I don't think. Rule pumps work. There are very few mechanical things in this world as reliable as a Rule pump. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, and finish that boat :lol: You're thinking too much :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Quit trying to re-invent the wheel, and finish that boat :lol: You're thinking too much :lol:
LOL. I figured you were thinking that. The good news is I'm running out of things to buy. :D

I'll order the boring ol' plain jane pump then. :wink:

I did just order a Rule 1,100 GPH pump for the live well, along with an assortment of parts.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
Productive boat building day. I put in about 6 hours and was able to order several items.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:05 am
by nc_robbie
6 hours of building will help you sleep good tonight I spent the day on mine too….so many boats to build and we only get 80pluse years to get them all in….have fun!!!

Rob

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good point Rob. I hope we get to fly fish in Heaven. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
I've been working some in the evenings and ordering boat parts on my lunch hour. I ordered a nice little light for underneath the console today, along with the switch for the bilge. Here is the light I ordered.

Image

I'm also planning on mounting a 7" dome light under the poling platform. It has both a white light and a red light built in and will be on a dimmer switch from BlueSeas. I hope the dimmer switch will run the LED. The mfg of the switch says it will and the mfg of the light says it should be compatible... we'll see.

Image

Does anybody have any suggestions for the cockpit lights? I'm thinking four sets of LEDs, two on each side, mounted just under the gunwale. They will be on a dimmer switch as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:10 am
by davidtx
I like your light choices. I've got blocks for four of those little red 4-LED light sets under my gunwales. That's four on each side, one between each pair of frames. Prarie Dog has half that number and thinks its going to be pretty bright in my boat. Its good to know that you can put a dimmer on them.

I was going through an old folder of paperwork and found a thread on "things to make sure you do" that I printed out. One item was to have lights in the lockers. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm wondering how you would switch them. With my luck, I'd leave them on and run the battery down.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:49 am
by callyb
Casey,

I don't know if you found this thread before or not, but I have kept it in my favorites for some time now. I hope you find it useful.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21055

Best regards,
Carl

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:42 am
by Uncle D
I think I'd go with red and white LED's. In the plane, I find while red is less blinding, I can't see details as well without brighter white light. I know it's an old age issue but you'll get there too!! :wink:

I've gone to "SuperBrightLED dot com" and I think it would be cool to have the three color strips, one red one white and one to show off. :D

Here's a link if you want to check out the weatherproof flexible strips... http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/ ... xible.html

Have fun, Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I wonder if they have multiple colors in one strip that you cold cycle through! I'll check it out. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:41 pm
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:I wonder if they have multiple colors in one strip that you cold cycle through! I'll check it out. :D
Yes they do but it's RGB

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
ahhh no white huh?

I just got back from West Marine, what Steven affectionately calls the "Toy Store." I picked up some electrical items and purchased a three inch roller frame to try out Steven's idea of cutting down the 9" roller into three smaller rollers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:07 am
by nc_robbie
How lucky you are not a marine store within an hour from me…sometimes it sucks living in the hills…but I still have ebay!!! Hope your build is going well. :D :D :D
Rob

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah. Without the internet, I think all of us backyard builders would really have a difficult time.

I just squeezed in another two or so hours on the hull. It's coming along. Nothing pic worthy but I should have some stuff to snap here in a couple weeks.

Now to wash the epoxy off the underside of my left arm....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:06 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:Now to wash the epoxy off the underside of my left arm....
Na, just pull it off really fast :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:10 am
by nc_robbie
I have used hand cream, wd40, mayonnaise, and diesel to get polyester off when I was working on boats in the past (helps it slip off). So far I have used wd40 and hand cream to help remove epoxy and both worked fairly well. Just remember if you are not bleeding, sweating or covered in some crude product your not having fun or getting it done!
Rob

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:37 am
by SmokyMountain
Use vinegar. CL posted that trick sometime a ago. Works great!! A lot better and cheaper than using alcohol.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:36 am
by Steven
I use Rubbing Alcohol. It's pretty cheap and very effective. Vinegar does work well also, I just can't stand the smell.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:16 am
by SmokyMountain
I just can't stand the smell.
Yeah, the tub sink always smells like I'm making pickles :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have vinegar, mineral spirits and alcohol at the house. However, I keep using the vinegar. It seems to work well and I don't mind because it washes off easy. I never thought to use hand cream or WD40.

I got my Rule 2000 GPH pump and my Ultra Pump Switch Junior in today. This pump is much smaller than I figured it would be and this switch is much beefier than I though it was going to be. Both good news.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question.

Should I use two hose clamps on the vent hose connection, or will one work? I purchased two for each fill connection.

I picked up some Anchor Hocking measuring glasses and shot glasses. Someone suggested them for small batches. They look like they will work great.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:07 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:Question.

Should I use two hose clamps on the vent hose connection, or will one work? I purchased two for each fill connection.
For small batches I use those plastic Jello shot cups you can buy but the hundred at Party City. Or, Sam's and Costco carry small dispensing cups restaurants use for condiments and such. Use them and toss them.

For measuring very small batches I discovered that infant dosing syringes work great; one for the resin one for the hardener. Much easier than a measuring cup and they can be cleaned for multiple uses.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hey I like those ideas!

I ordered a boat load of blue seas parts today. All sorts of cool stuff.

Pretty soon, all I will have left is the motor and parts for the trailer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:32 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Question.

Should I use two hose clamps on the vent hose connection, or will one work? I purchased two for each fill connection.

I picked up some Anchor Hocking measuring glasses and shot glasses. Someone suggested them for small batches. They look like they will work great.
I'm double clamping everything, just in case. I was doing some more looking at some boats at the new Cabelas in Allen. They use the crimp on clamps and only one per connecton even on the fuel feed lines. :doh: :help:

I ordered some of those plastic ones Larry suggested from Mudhole. Don't know why, but I ordered 200. 8O They do work well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
I think I know the type you are talking about. I like those. Those are handy little clamps. I will look to double clamp them then.

Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Anybody out there own an Edson steering wheel? I realized I haven't purchased a steering wheel yet. I'll be putting it onto a Teleflex helm that I picked up off eBay.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Or maybe a Schmitt steering wheel?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok... maybe this question then. Anybody have any suggestions as to steering wheel size? I am thinking on the smaller size. One reason is I can get a good deal on a steering wheel I like that is 13". The other is that I have so much stuff planned for my center console that a smaller wheel may be better for accessing all of the switches and such and so I don't cover up any gauges.

I'm also planning on putting on a power knob.

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
While was at the auto store picking up a new battery, I looked at the various sizes available to get a feel for the difference between 13 and 14 inch. I like the 13 a lot. Looks to be the size.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
You seem to be talking to an empty house. :lol:
Anybody out there own an Edson steering wheel?
Sure, that's probably the best and nicest on the market. Many high end boats come with Edson wheels. They are great if you've got extra $, but dang it man, some of them cost more than a hydraulic steering system :help:
Ok... maybe this question then. Anybody have any suggestions as to steering wheel size? I am thinking on the smaller size.
Mine is 15 1/2 and I don't think I'd want it much smaller. I like as large a wheel as will fit, within reason. You can move your arms to reach a switch and move your head to read a gauge :lol: But then, I bought the helm and wheel before I built the console, so I could size everything to fit me from a standing position. With hydraulic steering, 13" might be fine, but with mechanical steering you gain some leverage with a larger wheel. I'm sure you've seen some large sailing yachts with with 4' or 6' diameter wheels, it's all about mechanical advantage.
I'm also planning on putting on a power knob.
Also very nice, especially with wet hands on a stainless wheel. Save some money to start the next boat though. You've got the fever, I recognize it :lol:

I don't know about 13 and 14" batteries. Are you comparing group 24 to group 27 sizes? If you've got a serious trolling motor draw, I'd go with group 27s for that, size 24 would be fine for the engine and normal electrical use.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:32 pm
by gstanfield
I think he meant that while battery shopping at the auto store he checked some 13 and 14 inch steering wheels, but maybe I'm just reading into it because my mind was thinking about wheel sizes :wink:

I'm kinda with Larry on larger wheels, maybe it comes from my first car and daily driver until about 2001 being a 1965 Imapala SS with that great big 18" steering wheel :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:I think he meant that while battery shopping at the auto store he checked some 13 and 14 inch steering wheels, but maybe I'm just reading into it because my mind was thinking about wheel sizes :wink:

I'm kinda with Larry on larger wheels, maybe it comes from my first car and daily driver until about 2001 being a 1965 Imapala SS with that great big 18" steering wheel :lol:
George was right. I was referring to the wheel size. I hear ya on relating to a steering wheel you like in a car. After looking at various sizes of wheels at the auto store, the 13 seems really nice. I found a decent deal on a SS 13" Edson with the Power Knob and the Comfort Grip. I figure I could always sell it on ebay once I have it, assuming I want to step it up a size.
Cracker Larry wrote: With hydraulic steering, 13" might be fine, but with mechanical steering you gain some leverage with a larger wheel. I'm sure you've seen some large sailing yachts with 4' or 6' diameter wheels, it's all about mechanical advantage.

Save some money to start the next boat though. You've got the fever, I recognize it :lol:
I figure if I go all out on this Phantom, then every boat after this will seem like such a deal that I won't be able to pass up the opportunity to build it! The helm I have purchased for this boat is a hydraulic tilting helm from Teleflex.

Below is a pic of the console design with a 14" wheel. After studying it, the 13 may give me a little bit more visibility/access to the gadgets and gizmos, especially to the HDS screen from a seated position. (see pic) It would also save me a little space above my knees. :doh: On a side note. I got in another 6 hours today on the boat.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:31 pm
by gstanfield
It looks like you've definitely done your homework as always and with that hydraulic steering the small wheel should be wonderful :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:05 am
by stickystuff
You guys that know how to do this cad work makes me envious. I have worked with blue prints and even drawn my own for years. Just wish I had enough sense to learn how to do this.very cool consol layout. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:07 am
by stickystuff
By the way, with hydraulic steering 13" is plenty. Love the Edson wheels.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Ken,

I have to give the props to my dad up in Oklahoma, he's the AutoCad expert. We discuss layout ideas and I send him dimensions of the selected products. It was a treat this weekend because he was in town for a car show and helped me on Saturday.

It's always great working with Dad because it only takes about 1 min for him to be up to speed on where I'm at on the build and then were up and running. He always improves the process too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:21 pm
by Steven
What are the Instrument Gauges? I'm planning on running all my gauges through the HDS unit. My father just set his boat up that way. I'm trying to go minimalist on my console as much as possible.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
They are I-Command Evinrude programmable gauges that connect into the NMEA-2000 network and will provide up to 4 data options per gauge. They're made by Lowrance.

I might squeeze in another, maybe 2, 2 inch gauge up above the three inch gauges since there is a little bitty teeny weensy section of space left that could house another gizmo or too. :wink:

Speaking of gadgets and gizmos, has anybody used one of these? Are they worth having? Talk about having every option available.

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Marine ... =homebbr3g I am curious to know if something like this would really get any use or not.


Image

Steven - you mentioned the boat collision. My buddy's sister-in-law literally got her face ripped off when a boat plowed over the boat she was on. The dude she was with was obviously not being careful. They were out on the water in the dark and did not have any navigation lights on.

The other boat, a large powerful speed boat, went right over the top of them. I wonder if the speed boat had been equipped with one of these if this may have been averted. We usually stay out until after dark and then head to the ramp. The ability to read buoys and other boats out there on the water in the dead of night sounds like a nice safety feature.

A lot of lakes around here have those large trees that stick out of the water too. This thing would pick those up and put them on the HDS screen. Of course it will also pick up weather patterns too. Mounted off the port side of the poling tower this thing would give me about 2 miles of visibility. I would make a bracket that allowed me to put it on just when I needed it.

http://www.starmarinedepot.com/Lowrance ... Radar.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:39 am
by Steven
That is cool. Not terribly small at 19" diameter. Would be great on a T-Top, not so sure about anywhere lower. Didn't read all the details. Does it specify recommneded mounting height?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Seems a bit much for that boat :lol: The radome needs to be mounted high over your head for sure, otherwise you might as well stick you head in a microwave oven. Not good for brain waves :help:

Next boat, Casey :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:54 am
by wadestep
Unless YOU want to glow in the dark, please put the radar on a level that doesn't irradiate you!
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:58 am
by Steven
Supposed to be safe. :)


Virtually No Radiation for Safe, Flexible Installation on Any Boat
Lowrance Broadband 3G Radar transmits at 1/10,000 the power of typical pulse radars, emitting 5-times less energy than an average cell phone! So, Broadband 3G Radar is safe to mount in locations never before possible. Plus, with the lowest DC power draw of any X-band marine radar, it's the first and only radar ideally suited for sailboats and other fishing or cruising boats with limited power

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:59 am
by wadestep
I just actually read that also, and was coming back to admit my error. Interesting concept.
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
These are suppose to be safe enough you can be right next to them. It seems it hasn't really been until recently that these things are showing up on bass boats. Im sure its because the older models werent as safe. With this new technology it's now doable for them. I was reading about one guy who bass fishes and uses it to navigate the fog.

I'm sure it's overkill and it should prob go on a future boat as Larry suggests, but overkill is so much fun! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:29 pm
by Bluefish2
Radar on a bass boat? Considering the increase in brain tumors from cell phones (maybe) Then it might actually be safe. Anything RF or microwave Bad, Lower power good.
As for usefulness, they use them in Cape Cod Bay to find birds and tuna. They help keep you off the rocks too, so maybe on a bass boat could be useful. Fog keeps the yahoos off the water. This is some thing to consider but not until the OB19.
BF2

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So thats what your building next? The OB19? Sweet!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I'm looking at the discharge on my live well motor and it's 1" 1/8". The pick up is 3/4. Do you guys see any problems using 1" 1/8" for the overflow? I would like to use this to keep it consistent with the other 1" 1/8" discharge of my rule bilge pump.

This will give me two through hulls that match in size.

Thoughts?

Thanks - Casey

P.S. Tomorrow, all of my cool Blue Seas stuff comes in. I'm still waiting on my order from Live Bait Larry.

P.S.S. Jury duty selection tomorrow. I wonder what that will bring.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:55 am
by Steven
Discussed this with cLarry when planning mine. His overflow doesn't keep up with the intake. I used 1 1/2" for the drain. It is one major hole in the transom. :) I overdrilled and filled and redrilled. It was so large I glassed it too with some 3.25 oz. cloth for extra measure. :) If you want to be consistent with the through hull size, just use a valve to meter the intake to match the drain capacity, which is what CL does.


Just tell the judge you're a great judge of character and would make a great juror. You'll be able to tell if the accused is guilty or not just by the way he/she looks. ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Discussed this with cLarry when planning mine. His overflow doesn't keep up with the intake. I used 1 1/2" for the drain. It is one major hole in the transom. :) I overdrilled and filled and redrilled. It was so large I glassed it too with some 3.25 oz. cloth for extra measure. :) If you want to be consistent with the through hull size, just use a valve to meter the intake to match the drain capacity, which is what CL does.


Just tell the judge you're a great judge of character and would make a great juror. You'll be able to tell if the accused is guilty or not just by the way he/she looks. ;)
This all makes sense. I may just not worry about them matching and go with 1 1/8th for the bilge and 1 1/2 for the overflow. Maybe Larry will chime in.

Excellent idea with the Judge. And to make things even more odd I'll always look at him/her straight in the ear so it seems like I'm trying to look him in the eye but yet something is still just a tad off. And for extra measure I'll add a clicking sound after every complete thought I utter in the court room.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:56 am
by wadestep
Or, just tell the judge that you're building a boat, and how many hours you have into it, explain about sniffing epoxy and breathing dust, about paint fumes, whirling saw blades, and wives angry about the mess. Then he'll know you're insane for sure, and let you peacefully go back to your world of fairing and fillets. (unless of course he/she has BBV as well, then the plan would backfire.)
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good call!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:15 pm
by tobolamr
I now know that my 750 gph 3/4" inlet live well pump can overflow my rear, large live well... That is, if both of the 1 1/4" drain lines aren't working right. :doh: Just an FYI there. I'm looking forward to seeing the final decision on this part of the build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The pump I ordered is 1,100 GPH which may makes it even more difficult. I wonder if I should bump it up to 2". for the overflow drain. :doh:

However, it looks like most strainers for the overflow bulkhead fittings only go up to 1 1/2". See pic. I would prefer to keep them at 1 1/2". If I go with a 2" overflow drain maybe I could cut the inside diameter of the strainer a little larger to work with the overflow fitting.

The pump will fill both the live well and the bait well and both will have control valves before the inlets.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:39 pm
by tobolamr
Uhhh this is gonna sound a bit "redneck" but I will share it nonetheless. I don't think this is the best of ideas, but it does work!

One of the guys in our club left the tail of his live well pipe stick out about 2". Then he got some fiberglass screen, and a hose clamp, and put that over the end of that tail and tightened it down. I've been fishing against him for 4 years now, and he's had that in place for well over 7 years. And he fishes 2-4 tournaments a week with that rig. :doh: Now, I realize that a real spin-on strainer would be far, far more practical and preferred. But hey, there's always more than one way to accomplish most goals!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That's not a bad idea. I could probably custom make something that will work if the regular strainer, cut a littler larger, doesn't work.

My Blue Seas breaker panels, power hub, fuse block, dimmers, switches and dash socket came in today. It's like Christmas!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:01 pm
by tobolamr
Oh, and on the drains for that live well - I think 2 lines might work. The question is, would the live well pump be on constantly, or be on a timer switch? I fill mine on manual and then switch over to a timer after it gets half full and the first fish is in the well. Then it kicks on and off automatically for the rest of the tournament. So it fills up, then has time to drain out. And for the most part, my spray bar was out of the water... Anyways, just sharing what I observed last Thursday. I hope it can help in some way. :doh:

God knows I'm itching to build!!!

OH! That reminds me - I may be asking you more about how you extended the nose of the boat to 19'6". I'm going to re-read the posts first, though, and see if I can glean the info from there or from your blog first.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:The question is, would the live well pump be on constantly, or be on a timer switch?
I never really gave it much thought. I have never kept the fish I caught for a weigh in, nor have I ever fished a tournament. I would like to fish a tournament. I haven't bait fished in prob 20 years.

All of my fishing is with my fly rod and I've always let the fish go immediately after I caught them. The bait well will be more for my son or if we plan to catch something we want to eat. The live well would be for the occasional tournament, or if I catch such a nice fish that I want to get a really good pic of it. Then I can throw it in the live well and set up my Nikon D200 for the picture.
tobolamr wrote:OH! That reminds me - I may be asking you more about how you extended the nose of the boat to 19'6". I'm going to re-read the posts first, though, and see if I can glean the info from there or from your blog first.
You bet. I will be more than happy to help. I am about 3/4 done with filling in the reverse chine and it is coming along very nicely. At least I think it is. This is my first rodeo. The reverse chine and the extended bow are the only tow changes I made to the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:20 pm
by tobolamr
Whenever I've kept fish, I've usually packed them in a cooler full of ice. :doh: Maybe that's a northerner panfish thing?

As for the live well drains - If the live well will not be used regularly, and when you DO use it, you'll watch your water level... Then 2 drains could be OK. Right now I just fish the 5 small club tourneys a year, so my live wells don't get a huge workout. When I get into the other tourneys I want to fish, I will probably go from the 750gph to a 1,000 or more pump like you are. And then, the drainage will be very, very important!!! For now, I can live with the idea that 5 times a year my live well in the back will fill up and drain out as the tourney progresses.

The other thing you could do is install an Oxygenator system. http://www.keepfishalive.com/ Guys that convert to this seem to swear by it... I am strongly considering one of these, especially as it seems that warm water holds less oxygen than cool water. Just a thought...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
After reading over the LiveBaitLarry page I opted to just go with the overflow to simplify the process. Are you suggesting that I use two overflow drains on each well in addition to the drain at the bottom? I was thinking of just going with one large overflow per well and one small 3/4 drain at the bottom of each well. I would only use the 3/4 drain to drain it out completely at the end of the day.

Can you show me an example of this circulating timer? I'm all about complicating my electrical system to the "inth" degree.

As for keeping fish, I would prob use the live well and just fill it with ice and drain it at the end of the day. I will have a Yetti cooler but then I would lose the space for all my good eats and drinks. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think a 1 1/2 overflow would be plenty large enough. You can make a strainer of any size by using a heavy duty tupperware container. They come in a multitude of shapes and sizes

Image

Drill a hole in the center of the lid the same size as the thru-hull fitting with a good snug fit. Put the lid over the inside of the fitting, flush to the hull. You could secure it with a second nut. Use a hole punch or 1/4 drill and punch a lot of holes in the bowl. The bowl easily snaps on to the lid, and removes for easy cleaning.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry! I was wondering where you were at.

Great idea with the Tupperware! What are your thoughts on the overflow size? We're working with a 3/4 pick up on a 1,100 gallon pump with a 1- 1/8" discharge. Say I pumped all the water into just one well at the full rate, do you think a 1 1/2" would empty it fast enough?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
See above :D
I think a 1 1/2 overflow would be plenty large enough.
I've been painting a boat :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ahh I must have totally over looked that. Probably because I'm squeezing my responses in between projects here at work. :wink:

I hope you have some pics for us to see!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:03 pm
by tobolamr
Are you suggesting that I use two overflow drains on each well in addition to the drain at the bottom? I was thinking of just going with one large overflow per well and one small 3/4 drain at the bottom of each well. I would only use the 3/4 drain to drain it out completely at the end of the day.
Yes. My large live well has 2 large overflow drains draining to port and starboard. They are just above the water line, and I can just make out a trickle sound as they drain. My bow live well has a single overflow, and it drains directly through the hull directly under the live well itself. Each of my live wells has a 3/4" OD drain line, and a plug inside the live well itself. OH! The overflows, in my mind obviously, control your max fill level. Just to be clear.
Can you show me an example of this circulating timer? I'm all about complicating my electrical system to the "inth" degree.
Uhhhhhh... Like this? http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... 4&bih=638# Mine is built into my boat. I turn the toggle switch to Automatic instead of Manual, and then i can change how often the pump kicks on. It runs for a certain amount of time and shuts off. Kinda looks more like this one: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... 0&type=pla

I have it and I do use it - kinda one of those things that you don't realize how nice it is until you've tried it. I hope this helps!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
They are nice. I don't have one, but my buddy Raymond that I fish with a lot has one just like that. You can conserve the batteries, and keep your flow rate under control. I need to get one of those :idea:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hmm.. Where to fit this on the console.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:44 pm
by Steven
The strainer was a struggle until I came up with this. I used a THMarine 1 -1/2" thruhull drain with a THMarine overflow tube cut down. I notched the cleat for the thru hull to maximize the volume of the well. The timer is cool but it will only prevent an over flow if your pump isn't capable of filling the remaining space above the drain before the timer shuts off. Not likely with your large capacity pump. I used a spray head that is adjustible so I can adjust it to keep it from overflowing if the drain can't keep up.

THMarine overflow tube:


Image

Cut down it fits snugglly into the through hole.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok I see what you are doing. Makes sense. I wonder if they make a timer that you can simply wire behind the console that you cycle through by simply turning your pump switch on and off. Prob not. I'm just spit ballon here...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
I can't believe I'm getting stoked about bait and live wells. I dreaded messing with this stuff since I don't bait fish and since I have never been in a tournament.

tobolamr - Thanks for the info on TH Marine! They have the coolest products.

Steve and Larry - Instead of making my own, I think I will go with this one for the overflow, one on each tank. It's the size you're suggesting I use, 1 1/2", and it's got the bulkhead and filter all in one package.

Image

And I really like your suggestion for this product. Especially if Raymond has had good luck with them. He has a nice looking Maverick. I am assuming that is the one it is on.

Image

And this is the coolest - remote controls for your drain and fill valves on the live and bait wells! :lol:

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:53 pm
by tobolamr
And this is the coolest - remote controls for your drain and fill valves on the live and bait wells!

:help:

Mine never worked. But then again, I bought a used boat. (shoulda built....) If you DO go that route, make sure your push/pull cable is securely anchored up to the exit point so it doesn't flop around and break off. Neat and fun, yes. Practical? :doh: I suggest an inline shutoff valve like they use in house plumbing instead. Not remote, but way more friendly. Just my thoughts - not that they mean much... :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I do want input. Were the ones you used from the same manufacturer? I was looking on some forums and it looks like people are having luck with them.

I can see how if they were not installed correctly (rigid) then they would give you fits. The technology is pretty simple, not much different than a cable driven steering helm. I can see it making things easier, I would prob make my decision to fill up the live well while on the water and would prefer not to crawl back down under the poling platform to finagle with the valves.

I'm gonna call the manufacturer and ask them which product they have the least headache with. It looks like there are three different ones to choose from. The cable on this set up would be a pretty short run to. I imagine that would improve the performance.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:53 pm
by tobolamr
Casey, I was about to post and update what I originally posted there. You are on the right track!

Now that you mention it, mine was set up by a drunken monkey. 18" vinyl hose from the live well, to the remote shut-off, to 32" vinyl hose to the transom thru-hull. Covered with a piece of plywood to act as a false floor above the bilge - and that piece of plywood was the routing aid for the push-rod to that valve! DOH! :roll:

I guess that I've also learned that I like the KISS principle - Keep It Super Simple. Less stuff means less stuff that can go wrong. But, at the same time, if you want it, by all means, GO FOR IT! :lol: I did realize that you are right, and those are on most bass boats I've looked at. They must be worth something. But I usually use the stoppers in the bottom of each live well. Simple. Easy to fix. Cheap. I dunno. Maybe I'm a simpleton?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Simple is good. I plan to go pretty simple on my next build, which will hopefully be the FS18. Uber-light.

This one I figure I'll go allllll out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:13 pm
by tobolamr
Sweet. All out is awesome! Thank you for recognizing my sharing my opinion, and not trying to force you around. I appreciate that a lot.

I really, really enjoy seeing progress on this one. Keep it up! You're doing great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Totally man! I rely on feedback to help me improve the build. Good stuff.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Simple is always better. The simplest solution that can still do the job is always the best in salt water. Most anywhere else too :D And then there are some jobs that don't even need doing to start with :wink: My arm attached to a valve handle is 1000 times more reliable than any mechanical gizmo. That stuff ain't likely to work a month in my waters.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I know...... But these gizmos are so much fun!!!

I'm considering ordering one just to get my hands on it to see how well it's built. If it's junk I'll abandon the idea. If it seems robust I may continue to play with the idea. The valve is pretty straight forward so it doesn't scare me any. The part that is the novelty is the push rod.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:09 pm
by Steven
They stock those valves at Bass Pro Shops.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'll try to swing by and check one out. I need to make my quarterly drive over there to see all the amazing fish they have in their acquarium.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:33 pm
by Steven
Working in Irving is great. Many a lunch is spent there.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I was thinking the same thing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Whats the name of that fancy restaurant there in the same building?

If I'm over there on a day you are out and about maybe we can catch another lunch.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:45 am
by Steven
Not sure, but let me know what day your headed over and I'll meet you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:51 am
by tobolamr
The valve itself is fine. You are correct that it's the push rod that's junk. And please remember - I'm in Wisconsin. I'm saltwater stoooopid. :wink:

Are you using a trolling motor? Or are you strictly going to be push pole?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So the push rod was made by T-H Marine then?

The boat will have a trolling motor. Actually two. I have the 24 Volt Trim-and-Troll set up from Minn-Kota. Here is a link.

http://store.minnkotamotors.com/categor ... im-N-Troll

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:07 pm
by tobolamr
To be honest, I have no idea. But I would think the push rod was made by T-H, or at least supplied by them. I would think it would come as a package deal type thing. :doh: Gotta remember - it was in a boat built in 1989. I bought it in 2009. It was definitely in there for 20 years.

Forgot about that trolling motor set up. I can't wait to see how that works out for you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I would imagine they have improved the technology some since 89'. Maybe not.

Yeah this motor set up looks to be very cool. I have rounded up the trim and troll, the tabs and the switch for the console as well as the electrical needed to install it. I still need to get the batteries and the battery trays. I hope everything I am trying out helps other builders select products for their boats.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:26 pm
by tobolamr
Which batteries do you plan to use to power the trim-n-troll?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm planning on using Blue Tops from Optima along with a billet box. I have made the front locker compartment about twice as big as it was normally designed. Since they are able to take a real beating I will most likely be installing them up there to help balance out the boat, considering I have just about every piece of hardware available bolted to the back of the boat.

Here is a list of items I have planned for the boat. Most of them have already been rounded up.

Lowrance HDS-10 Chart Plotter with Side Scan Sonar and Sonic Hub. Two Transducers. Hydraulic Teleflex Helm, Blue Seas Electronics, Evinrude Controls and I-Command Gauges. Miscellaneous electrical components (bilge pump, live well, navigation lights, horn, cockpit lights and other devices). A West Marine Radio. 3 bank Professional Mariner Pro Sport battery charger. Two Muller fuel tanks with Perko hardware. Four Flat Top cleats. Three Attwood push pole holders. Two Talon shallow water anchors from MinnKota and a Trim and Troll also from Minnkota. A hydraulic jack plate from Bob’s Machine Shop. A poling platform. A Yeti Cooler. Taco Rubrail. Silver Tip Epoxy, Okoume Marine Plywood. Perko Stern Light. Aqua Signal Bow Light. T-H Marine Live well pump control, Rule Bilge, Rule live well pump, high speed water pick up, and...

I’m out of breath…

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:42 pm
by hooter
flyfishingmonk wrote:Here is a list of items I have planned for the boat. Most of them have already been rounded up.

Lowrance HDS-10 Chart Plotter with Side Scan Sonar and Sonic Hub. Two Transducers. Hydraulic Teleflex Helm, Blue Seas Electronics, Evinrude Controls and I-Command Gauges. Miscellaneous electrical components (bilge pump, live well, navigation lights, horn, cockpit lights and other devices). A West Marine Radio. 3 bank Professional Mariner Pro Sport battery charger. Two Muller fuel tanks with Perko hardware. Four Flat Top cleats. Three Attwood push pole holders. Two Talon shallow water anchors from MinnKota and a Trim and Troll also from Minnkota. A hydraulic jack plate from Bob’s Machine Shop. A poling platform. A Yeti Cooler. Taco Rubrail. Silver Tip Epoxy, Okoume Marine Plywood. Perko Stern Light. Aqua Signal Bow Light. T-H Marine Live well pump control, Rule Bilge, Rule live well pump, high speed water pick up, and...
8O 8O 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
:D :D :D

I think I'm sacrificing about 1.5 to 2.5 inches in draft for all the extra goodies. I really like gear, I use it when I have it so I assume it will be the same if its bolted to my boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have been rounding up the last bits and pieces of hardware for this Phantom.

I'm researching the rigging and am wanting feedback/options on the cleanest way to rig the motor.

The motor will be mounted to a 4" jack plate and the boat has a motor well.

I was looking at some of these. Thoughts?

Rigging Flange and Hose
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Rigging Flange with Fuel Hose Port & Hose Union
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Tri-Shape Rigging Flange - Hose Fits Over Flange and Into Base - Designed to Prevent Water Leaks - Fits 2" Hole
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Zippered Rigging Sleeve
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok. After consideration and and feedback from you guys and brainstorming with my padre, I'll abandon the remote valve idea from T-H Marine.

So I'm thinking of using the two valves below. The Y Valve for diverting the water to the live well and the bait well, and flange mounting sea cock for just above the high speed pick up. I still haven't figured out what exactly to use on the drains. I may use some from the same company.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:28 am
by timmydafool
Casey,
I was reading back through your thread to see what bilge pump and stuff you went with and realized i totally missed the discussion about interior lighting... If you haven't already check these guys out they make complete sets for bass boats and would work great on a flats boat... I'm pretty much positive it's what i'm going to go with:
http://bluewaterled.com/

Also where did you order your bilge from? I need to replace the one on my key west and wanna upgrade it.

-tim

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:49 am
by Steven
I like the riggling hose, but you'll need a second hole to accomodate the steering cable or hydraulic lines, depending on which way you go. I'm using one hole with a boot for the wiring harness and steering. The fuel will come through the motor well deck using aThru-Bulkhead fuel fitting.

There was quite a discussion in the past on using flanged seacocks, versus inline ball valves. I wouldn't go to the extra expense and work to use a flanged seacock. There's no danger in our small bilge areas that a misplaced foot is going to do damage. A Marelon inline valve is perfect. They are also straight threaded, so they will screw onto the pickup properly. I'm using Marelong inlines on the bronze pickup and the 1 1/2" bronze thru-hull for the livewll drain.

If you go with the flanged sea cock, you will have to ensure the hull panel has parallel sides where you install it. In my bilge, with all the overlapping tape from the stringers, there isn't an area like that. I'm fighting that same problem with the 1 1/2" livewell thru-hull. There's layers of staggered tape on both sides of the transom, so the nut doesn't make flat contact. I'm having to grind the area to be parallel with the outer side. A finicky pain.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I like the rigging hose, but you'll need a second hole to accommodate the steering cable or hydraulic lines, depending on which way you go. I'm using one hole with a boot for the wiring harness and steering. The fuel will come through the motor well deck using a Thru-Bulkhead fuel fitting.

I wouldn't go to the extra expense and work to use a flanged seacock.


Steven - What is the best way to go about this second hole for the helm? I have a hydraulic helm from Teleflex. What is the advantage of the Thru-Bulkhead fuel fitting over running it through the rigging hose? Just curious.

Is this the valve you would suggest instead of the flanged seacock?

Image Image
timmydafool wrote:...where did you order your bilge from? I need to replace the one on my key west and wanna upgrade it.
Tim - I'll check out the lights. They look cool. Here is where I got my Rule 2000 http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/runo12vodcbi5.html. I also purchased an Ultra Pump Switch Jr. made by these guys - http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param ... itch_price from Shuster Corp. http://www.shustercorp.com

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:25 pm
by boatdog
heres a site to check out before you give up on the remote valve idea

http://www.flow-rite.com/marine/product ... s/v1-valve

i havent used these valves but i plan to on the next boat

sean

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
boatdog wrote:heres a site to check out before you give up on the remote valve idea - sean
Sean - I really like the look of those valves. However, I looked closer at my plans and determined that I can actually reach all of the valves necessary to fill and drain both the live well and the bait well from where I sit behind the helm. I took for granted just how shallow the dept from the top of the deck to the the bottom of the bilge actually is. It may be just as much work to reach for a control as it would to reach for the valve itself.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are 4 questions for everyone who's ever fished on a boat with a live/bait well.

The way I have the plumbing laid out, I can only drain the wells all the way when I'm on plane. All of the fill and drain valves, as well as the pump, are located in the box with the bilge. I like it this way to eliminate any possibility of a leak into another compartment from a lose fitting.

I also have the overflow and the fill very close to one another to keep them in the bilge. I don't know if this is a problem. I assume it won't be because the inlet will have a spray head on it and should keep things pretty stirred up, along with the rock of the boat.

Once I kill the motor, how much time do you think I have to turn around and shut the valve before the water works its way back into the wells?

Is this even important? Or have you guys found you don't mess draining it until you pull the boat out at the end of the day?

Assuming there is not enough time to reach the drain valve, is it worth plumbing it to drain into the bilge as well, so I can pump it out if I'm on the water? :doh: :doh:

For a higher rez version of the photo below click here.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 11:32 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:I like the rigging hose, but you'll need a second hole to accommodate the steering cable or hydraulic lines, depending on which way you go. I'm using one hole with a boot for the wiring harness and steering. The fuel will come through the motor well deck using a Thru-Bulkhead fuel fitting.

I wouldn't go to the extra expense and work to use a flanged seacock.


Steven - What is the best way to go about this second hole for the helm? I have a hydraulic helm from Teleflex. What is the advantage of the Thru-Bulkhead fuel fitting over running it through the rigging hose? Just curious.

Is this the valve you would suggest instead of the flanged seacock?

Image Image

The valve is the same one Larry used and is the one I have purchased. I don't think there's an advantage necessarily to the thru-bulkhead fuel fitting. It will result in more hose clamped fittings which is a disadvantage IMO. But, my fuel hose comes into the bilge, not one of the stern lockers, so the bulkhead fitting makes sense. One of the guys drilled a hole just big enough so the fuel line fits snuggly and provides a water tight seal. Can't remember who.

I'm using a standard boot for all the 'stuff' that has to route out to the motor. I'm not sure how you'll get away with not using one for the helm 'stuff'. Does the tube you have pictured have ports on the bottom side for controls?

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 11:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I'm not sure how you'll get away with not using one for the helm 'stuff'. Does the tube you have pictured have ports on the bottom side for controls?
I don't think so. I assume there would be the large tube, in your case a boot, that has the electrical stuff and maybe the engine control, and then the hydraulic hoses would pass through two small plastic bulkhead fittings by themselves. This conversation has reminded me that Teleflex makes a little fitting for this. I suppose that is how it would work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Anyone? :doh:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Here are 4 questions for everyone who's ever fished on a boat with a live/bait well.

The way I have the plumbing laid out, I can only drain the wells all the way when I'm on plane. All of the fill and drain valves, as well as the pump, are located in the box with the bilge. I like it this way to eliminate any possibility of a leak into another compartment from a lose fitting.

I also have the overflow and the fill very close to one another to keep them in the bilge. I don't know if this is a problem. I assume it won't be because the inlet will have a spray head on it and should keep things pretty stirred up, along with the rock of the boat.

Once I kill the motor, how much time do you think I have to turn around and shut the valve before the water works its way back into the wells?

Is this even important? Or have you guys found you don't mess draining it until you pull the boat out at the end of the day?

Assuming there is not enough time to reach the drain valve, is it worth plumbing it to drain into the bilge as well, so I can pump it out if I'm on the water? :doh: :doh:

For a higher rez version of the photo below click here.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:28 am
by cape man
Once I kill the motor, how much time do you think I have to turn around and shut the valve before the water works its way back into the wells?
Not sure what you are asking here, but if you are talking about the valve on the bottom drains, not the overflow, then it will start refilling pretty soon after coming off plane if the bottom of the live well is below the waterline.

However, I think this is no big deal at all. I have a drain plug on the bottom, inside of my well that runs out the side. If left open I'll get about an inch of water in the well. I use my well two ways. As a storage compartment I turn the valve off above the pump, and plug the drain. As a live/bait well, I open that valve, and plug the drain. When at rest I run the pump. Under way the scoop pushes plenty of water through the line without the pump. I have a 1.5" overflow that is about 1" below the level of the inlet that also runs out the side. You routing everything through the transom is fine. As drawn your wells should work just fine. I never drain the well completely until off the water on the trailer. If I ever had to do it on the water, I would turn off the pump and the valve above it, open the bottom drain until it got to the waterline, replug it, and then bail ot the 1" of water. Because my drains are along the side, the water gets forced in while on plane and the drain open. Your's is an improvement as the drain is out the back.

Biggest problem with a lot of live/bait wells is not having a large enough overflow, placing the overflow too high, or having too small a mesh on the overflow screen and the water not being able to get out as fast as it comes in. I use mine for live bait coming out of a cast net, which also includes a lot of grass and other debris. If not careful the overflow gets clogged and the well overflows through the lid. No big deal as it just runs out the transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote:
Not sure what you are asking here, but if you are talking about the valve on the bottom drains, not the overflow, then it will start refilling pretty soon after coming off plane if the bottom of the live well is below the waterline.
Hi Cape Man,

Thanks for the response. The valve I'm talking about is the valve on the drain of the live well. Where the drain comes out at the bottom, it joins with the overflow line and both go out the transom. When I'm ready to drain I just open the valve and let it run out the line the overflow is connected too. The valve on top of the pick up would already be closed.

I thought about using a plug in the drain but then I though it would be easier with a valve and I wont have to rely on a plug holding back the water. I would normally have a plug in the thru-hull for extra measure and would pull it out when I would use the live well.

It's the valve going to the drain that I wonder if I could close right after coming off plane, just before the water flows back up through the drain into the well. If I'm with a buddy I am sure he could turn them off before I slow it down.

However, if you have found you normally don't mess with draining it all the way until your back on the trailer then it's probably a mute point and I should not really sweat it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:47 pm
by WindKnot
Casey,
Where are the photos? :D

With work being so crazy, I am going to start my build sometime this winter.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot,

The building hasn't been anything real exciting lately. But the new baby is! She has taken a lot of my time. That's her in the photo below.

As for the boat, I've been spending all my time on the reverse chine and ordering parts. I'm about 2/3-rds of the way done with the reverse chine.

I've been using my scrap ply to fill in the void and to make the boat extra stiff to eliminate the droopy nose. It's stiffer than snot! It's like having one solid beam down each chine, only stronger. Here are the pics.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:21 am
by cottontop
Enjoy your young children. The baby is beautiful. I spent a lot of time with my kids(never enough. They grow up in a hurry. My son will be 36 tomorrow and my daughter 32 on June 28th. They have given us 3 wonderful grandsons. The build looks great/ It sure should be strong. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks John,

Good to hear from you. A lady at church said this very thing last week. I'll be sure to do it.

I read on Stevens thread you were narrowing down your hull options. Did you select a boat yet?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today I hooked up and landed a new Edson stainless steering wheel with Comfort Grip and Power Knob for $104 including shipping. Sweetness!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's a very good buy 8) did they have 2 of them?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Actually the shipping was an additional $12. They had three of them on eBay and they sold for $104, $85 and $107. I won the first one. I really like to hunt for a good price and usually check eBay and Craigslist before I make a purchase to see if what I'm looking for cones across at a decent price. This guy may post up more.

I think the next purchases of higher cost will be the Yetti and the stuff from Raymond. I'll prob pick up the Yetti from my long time friend who manages the coolest fly fishing store in OKC.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:44 pm
by tobolamr
Sorry, just getting back into things after the interesting weekend. :roll:

Okay... Once you get off plane, anything below the waterline will immediately begin filling up. Yes, if you hurry and plug it, you can stop it without a lot getting back into the well. In mine, we had 10" of water in the rear live well at rest. But then again, I'm pretty sure that sucker drafts 20" at rest, too. A hog of a production boat, that it is.... :lol: I usually leave my wells unplugged when not in use, and let them fill/drain - I like them to drain and dry out after a tournament. When I'm not tourney fishing, I usually don't think about them.

All of your plumbing stuff being in the bilge is kinda "industry standard" practice, in my humble opinion. I'm not expert, though. Mine has it all in the bilge. But then again, the whole boat is the bilge... :wink:

As for overflows and fills - I have 2 fills, each located directly above the drains. I've never thought twice about it. It works. But then again, I'm pretty attentive about keeping water flowing through the wells. Haven't had a fish die on me yet!

I hope this helps!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr - sounds like I'm on the right track then. Thanks for the feedback.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:33 pm
by tobolamr
I wanted to clarify something in my last post...
Mine has it all in the bilge. But then again, the whole boat is the bilge...
Please keep in mind that my boat at this time, and the time of that posting, is an '89 production fiberglass hull. So the whole hull bottom acts as the bilge. Anyhoo, not that important here, but just so if this gets referenced in the future they know it's not one of Jacques' boats.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good clarification. No prob.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This Edson Steering Wheel Rocks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics.
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:41 am
by peter-curacao
Nice wheel!!! expensive?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
It wasn't bad $104 plus shipping. I picked it up on eBay.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:58 pm
by Steven
That is super nice and is the same one I'd like. Gonna be hard to find that kind of deal.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm sure another one will show up on eBay at a good price. There are 9 on there right now for $260 which still isn't that bad.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:17 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:It wasn't bad $104 plus shipping. I picked it up on eBay.
Wow that's a steal congrat's good job Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Peter,

Have you started a thread specific to your build? I so I would like to follow it. You may have and I may have just over looked it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:25 pm
by gstanfield

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks George. I don't remember seeing that one. What an amazing boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:35 pm
by gstanfield
You're welcome. It is indeed a nice build he has going.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:50 pm
by peter-curacao
Thanks George you beat me to it Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Has anybody ordered anything from LiveBaitLarry.com. I placed an order over two weeks ago, maybe going on three weeks now, and haven't seen or heard anything from them.

I called and left a message but no response. I see no way to contact them via email. My order just says "Processing."

:doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is what I'm thinking for the paint scheme. However, not specifically this color. I like how the blue wraps around the reverse chine about an inch or so.

This boat's reverse chine looks quite a bit like the reverse chine on my boat. They appear to be about the same size.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:08 am
by Prarie Dog
Casey, I bought my livebait tank from those guys. Got it in about 6 days. Don't understand why you're having a problem. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:12 am
by Steven
I like the paint scheme and the idea of wrapping it around the chine. I'd like to do that, but my support bunks are too close on my support frame. Hmmm.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Prarie Dog wrote:Casey, I bought my livebait tank from those guys. Got it in about 6 days. Don't understand why you're having a problem. :doh:
Hopefully they will come through. I assume the processed the credit card but I will have to check.

Fortunately it was only about $135 order and it hasn't slowed me down any, but they had a couple of fittings that I could not find anywhere else. I can have my cc company cancel the charge if they don't follow through. I'm not upset, I just look forward to having more boat goodies to rummage through.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

What do you mean by the quote below? I don't fully understand what a support bunk and a support frame are.
...but my support bunks are too close on my support frame. Hmmm.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:23 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Steven,

What do you mean by the quote below? I don't fully understand what a support bunk and a support frame are.
...but my support bunks are too close on my support frame. Hmmm.

The Strong back. I have padded bunks right along the chine to give proper support to the hull. Since the chines and keel were the strongest points on the hull, I wanted them to bear the weight, particularly after the flip before any internal framing was completed. I could block the boat up off the frame though for painting. The graphite is right up to the edge of the spray rail, so I've been trying to figure out how to tape this and make it work. Wrapping under would solve that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm tracking now. For some reason my mind was stuck on the boat and I wasn't thinking about the boat stand. That makes sense.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm approaching the completion of the reverse chine laminates right along the same time I've pretty much exhausted my scrap Okoume. Here is what it looks like.

I will fill in the last 1 inch of the reverse chine, the side closest to the keel, with one more plywood strip and epoxy filler. You can see a pencil line on the hull, that is where the reverse chine meets the hull. For some reason I could not get the picture to rotate. This is a pic of the last couple of feet toward the transom.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:37 am
by peter-curacao
There you go.
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Nice Thanks!

I tried using the edit feature but it doesn't seem to be working.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My LiveBaitLarry order finally arrived after 30 days. At least the items were correct.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
What do you guys think is the best location for the fire extinguisher? I may be running out of room under the center console.

What is the very best one made? Best mounting hardware? Best size?

Thanks in advance.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:00 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:What do you guys think is the best location for the fire extinguisher? I may be running out of room under the center console.

What is the very best one made? Best mounting hardware? Best size?

Thanks in advance.
Best space is the CC I think but since you out of space there, maybe under the gunwale ?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good call. I was thinking under the gunwale just today. Are the mounting brackets able to hold one upside down in a horizontal position? I wonder if it would cause problems.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
Different ones have different mounting requirements. To be "approved" you have to mount them per mfg. instructions. I don't know of any other than Halon that can be mounted upside down, but horizontal is OK with most of them. I like the CC location myself. You want it where you can get to it in a hurry, and you don't want it in a place that a fire is likely to start between you and it. Mine is on the port side of the CC where I can reach it from the helm, and it's protuberance is protected by the T-top legs. If I did not have the top, I would recess mount it into the side of the console. Something like this, but you could build it in ..

Image

Under the gunwales is OK too if that works out better. My space is limited there. A good rule of thumb is that you can reach it from the helm, with little effort.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I never thought about recessing it. I agree that I would like to keep it within arm's length. I'll check out this Halon.

Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
I will soon be drilling the hole for my high speed intake strainer. The pick up has 4 holes for screwing it to the bottom of the hull. The screws were not supplied.

What lenght screw should I use?

How thick of a backing plate should I use?

I'm thinking 1/2" thickness and screws that are 3/4" in lenght. This should give me about 5/8 ths inch bite.

Here is what it looks like.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Bump :D
flyfishingmonk wrote:I will soon be drilling the hole for my high speed intake strainer. The pick up has 4 holes for screwing it to the bottom of the hull. The screws were not supplied.

What lenght screw should I use?

How thick of a backing plate should I use?

I'm thinking 1/2" thickness and screws that are 3/4" in lenght. This should give me about 5/8 ths inch bite.

Here is what it looks like.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:42 pm
by Cracker Larry
I used a 3/4" backing plate and 1" screws with the same pickup.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:37 pm
by MarkOrge
I really like that recessed fixture! My last two placements weren't bad, but I would the extinguisher from time to time with my shin :|

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:I really like that recessed fixture! My last two placements weren't bad, but I would hit the extinguisher from time to time with my shin :|
Ouch. Good call. I will see if I can come up with the room in the console to recess it on the starboard side down low.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:34 am
by ksm330
This may be overkill, but my thoughts are that this pick-up is being mounted to the underside of the hull, and could potentially be hit by the bottom or other obstructions (seeing as how this is a flats boat, shallow water is likely in it's future). By using "screws" that could potentially be stressed by said impact on said shallow bottom, you are open to the risk of water infiltration to the hull core. In this type of install (transducers and other bolt-on through-hull) we would typically install a backing plate, mark the holes then drill out over-sized and fill with epoxy. We would then re-drill the holes out and through-bolt the pick-up with a healthy dose of sealant (5200 or the like) around the bolts & pick-up tube. We would use a drop of loc-tite COMBINED with lock nuts or lock washers to secure.

Again, these are just my thoughts, do with them as you will.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
ksm330 wrote:This may be overkill, but my thoughts are that this pick-up is being mounted to the underside of the hull, and could potentially be hit by the bottom or other obstructions (seeing as how this is a flats boat, shallow water is likely in it's future). By using "screws" that could potentially be stressed by said impact on said shallow bottom, you are open to the risk of water infiltration to the hull core. In this type of install (transducers and other bolt-on through-hull) we would typically install a backing plate, mark the holes then drill out over-sized and fill with epoxy. We would then re-drill the holes out and through-bolt the pick-up with a healthy dose of sealant (5200 or the like) around the bolts & pick-up tube. We would use a drop of loc-tite COMBINED with lock nuts or lock washers to secure.
I have glued three 1/4 laminates of ply together for the backing plate, giving me 1 full inch of wood to screw into once the backing plate is glued to the inside of the hull. I'm planning on drilling over sized holes into the hull and backing plate for all four screws and the 3/4 inch pick up pipe. I figured I can start with the screws, and if they every get loose I can simply drill the hole all the way through and proceed with the bolts 5200 and loc-tite. I'll use the 5200 either way.

To avoid hitting it on the bottom it will be located close to the skeg and the skeg will be the lowest point... so hopefully I will avoid knocking it but I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am needing to order a couple thru-hulls for my bait well and live well drains.

Should I go with stainless or chrome plated bronze? What do you guys suppose is the best option? I am kinda leaning towards the Attwood.

Here is a Groco stainless.

Image

Here is a Perko Chrome Plated Bronze.

Image

Here is an Attwood Stainless Steel

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:12 am
by cottontop
I'd say go with the stainless. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:08 am
by Steven
I went with Bronze since the scoop is bronze. Less galvanic corrosion opportunity. I think. ;) If you go stainless, I'd pick the Groco since it has a bonding nut.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I went with Bronze since the scoop is bronze. Less galvanic corrosion opportunity. I think.
I believe this comes into play when two dissimilar metals are adjacent to one another. The scoop and the thru-hull will be separated by a lot of plastic.
Steven wrote:If you go stainless, I'd pick the Groco since it has a bonding nut.


Do these things have to be grounded if they are not apart of the fuel system? I assume they would only need grounding if it's a fill line or a vent line. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:37 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:I went with Bronze since the scoop is bronze. Less galvanic corrosion opportunity. I think.
I believe this comes into play when two dissimilar metals are adjacent to one another. The scoop and the thru-hull will be separated by a lot of plastic.
Steven wrote:If you go stainless, I'd pick the Groco since it has a bonding nut.


Do these things have to be grounded if they are not apart of the fuel system? I assume they would only need grounding if it's a fill line or a vent line. :doh:
Actually they should be bonded. A stainless and bronze fitting, when in the water will be at different potentials, which will allow galvanic corrosion to occcur. Bonding them together brings them to the same potential, so the corrosion between them can't occur, or is minimized. At least that's how I understand it. I intend a bit more research in short order as I'll be installing those fittings.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

You are making a big assumption here... and that is that my boat will actually be in the water. I keep finding less and less time for fishing. Which means I wont have to worry about any corrosion. :D

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. They would be easy enough to bond because they are so close together.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:30 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Steven,

You are making a big assumption here... and that is that my boat will actually be in the water. I keep finding less and less time for fishing. Which means I wont have to worry about any corrosion. :D

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. They would be easy enough to bond because they are so close together.

I feel ya. The closer I get to done the further away the end seems. I haven't been out once this year. Just want to get this done and get on with some on water fun.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Agreed. So even if they metals are the same are you suggesting they still be bonded?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:41 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Agreed. So even if they metals are the same are you suggesting they still be bonded?
That's what I"m not certain about. I planned on bonding them anyway. Was actually going to ask CL about it, as I remember he's shared some good info in the past. I'll see if I can find the old thread on it. Seems like it was a lengthy one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great. I would like to learn more about this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:24 pm
by Ellsworb
flyfishingmonk wrote:I will soon be drilling the hole for my high speed intake strainer. The pick up has 4 holes for screwing it to the bottom of the hull. The screws were not supplied.

What lenght screw should I use?

How thick of a backing plate should I use?

I'm thinking 1/2" thickness and screws that are 3/4" in lenght. This should give me about 5/8 ths inch bite.

Here is what it looks like.

Image
Where exactly on the hull are you mounting this?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ellsworb wrote:
Where exactly on the hull are you mounting this?
This will be located on the port side, about 4 inches from center line, and probably a few inches behind where the skeg ends. The skeg will hand down a little lower than the bottom of the strainer.

On the opposite side I am planning on the transducer. It will shoot through the hull.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:12 pm
by Ellsworb
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Ellsworb wrote:
Where exactly on the hull are you mounting this?
This will be located on the port side, about 4 inches from center line, and probably a few inches behind where the skeg ends. The skeg will hand down a little lower than the bottom of the strainer.

On the opposite side I am planning on the transducer. It will shoot through the hull.

Casey
Excellent. I am trying to figure out the optimum place for my strainer inlet for my OD18. Optimally, it would continue maximum flow of water to the baitwell while underway. That's the goal at least.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it seems like a reasonable place for it.

Hopefully Larry will weigh in on the bonding questions.

I think I may go with John's recommendation and order stainless and then bond it like Steven's just to be safe.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I'm deep in epoxy today and needing some input fast because I may be at this section tonight and I want to put wet on wet.

In the pics you can see the transition from the reverse chine into the bottom of the hull. How much of a curve do you guys think I should have here? It's easy for me to add epoxy to make the curve of the transition longer and more gradual.

The 4th photo is kind of what I have modeled it after. Their radius is not very large. The last picture is what I think I will end up with but the pic is not close enough to tell what the radius is.

Thoughts. Thanks!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:44 pm
by timmydafool
Casey,

the reverse chine you are putting on your phantom is very similar to the one on my Key West. I just looked at the transition and it is maybe a soft approx 3" radius. this coffee cup fits the radius perfect and it is 3 1/4" in diameter.

Image



hope this helps

-tim

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:59 pm
by Steven
Boats pulled from molds will have more generous radius to aid in pulling from the mold. I would probably just put 1/2" fillet, which will be enough for the 12oz. cloth to lay down smoothly.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Timmy and Steven - Good input.

I may land somewhere in between these two, which should look pretty good.

Thanks fellows!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
I checked what I have already shaped and it looks to be a 1 to 1.5 inch radius. A 2.5 inch hole saw rests nicely into the transition.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:35 pm
by chopperman
casey,

I just spent several days and read through your entire thread. You have a wealth of information about rigging. I have learned a lot from your questions. I will start my rigging in the months to come, so I am trying to learn everything I can about it now.

Also, I am in the Arlington/Grand Prairie area twice a year for helicopter training. I would love to hook up with you and talk boat building :lol:

-Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Helicopter training? That's awesome!!!!!

Just let me know when you're in town next and we can definitely hook up. I may put you to work on the boat. :wink: I have also been keeping up with your 16. It looks like things are coming along nicely.

It's like a boat store here at my house with all of these parts lying around. I have them tucked away under the couch, on the book shelves, in the kitchen cabinets, under the master bed, in the filing cabinet, the laundry room and the garage. And that is no joke. And I'm getting ready to order more! I was telling my dad just today that I think I probably have 95% of the stuff rounded up with the exception of the motor and the trailer. I may try to get my hands on a Yeti cooler this weekend.

One thing I learned this evening while shaping the concave portion of my reverse chine is that the West System 403 is'nt near as easy to work with as the 404. They are like day and night different. I picked up two containers of the 403 because they were out of the 404. I'm taking one back and getting the 404. Once mixed it shapes 100 times better with a spatula. The 403, even when mixed pretty wet, still seems to stick and botch up a lot, creating a lot of little pockets as if it was mixed dry. I'm sure it's good for laminating but it ain't working for me on this reverse chine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:22 am
by chopperman
I just left Texas a week ago. I will be back next fall. I'll let you know when it gets closer. I would realy love to learn to fly fish. I tried it a few times many years ago and still have the fly rod. A couple of the guys broke out their fly collections at the Southeast Boat Builders meet. Very cool stuff 8)

I have not tried any of the West System products. As far as fillers I have found that a mix of woodflower and silica sold here is best for fillets. I use woodflower by iteslf for glue. For fairing, I copied Joel and used a mix of woodflower and silica for the first layer to cover the cloth. Then I tried the microballon silica fairing mix for a few more applications for easier sanding. The real cats-meow is quickfare. It is extremely easy to work with and worth every penny. I will use it to fair my decks. I have read that Silvertip E-Z Fillet is nice to work with also but more expensive.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:22 pm
by tobolamr
flyfishingmonk wrote:I have them tucked away under the couch, on the book shelves, in the kitchen cabinets, under the master bed, in the filing cabinet, the laundry room and the garage.
ROFL Next thing you know, you'll be raided by the FBI, confused as having marine contraband around! :lol: Keep up the great work! Any new pics yet? How's the family? Been fishing?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:I just left Texas a week ago. I will be back next fall. I'll let you know when it gets closer. I would realy love to learn to fly fish. I tried it a few times many years ago and still have the fly rod. A couple of the guys broke out their fly collections at the Southeast Boat Builders meet. Very cool stuff 8)
I would be more than happy to teach you some fly fishing tricks. Most of my play money I made through college was from casting lessons and managing a fly shop. I absolutely love the sport.

Today I asked my three year old son, "Who made the fish?" He answered, "God." I said that's right. And then he proceeded to inform me that, "But man made the flies." I said, "Oh really, which man?" and he pointed at me and said, "You Did!!!"

The other day my wife told him fish eat worms. He corrected her by saying, "No they don't. Fish eat flies. Birds eat worms." I can't wait to teach him to fly fish.
chopperman wrote:The real cats-meow is quickfare. It is extremely easy to work with and worth every penny. I will use it to fair my decks. I have read that Silvertip E-Z Fillet is nice to work with also but more expensive.
Quickfare came with my Phantom kit but I haven't played with it yet. I imagine it will make things easier. I've already burned through 3 quarts of E-Z Fillet on the hull and reverse chine. That stuff is great. It's easy to work with. The reason I've picked up the 404 is for filing in the space for the reverse chine. I didn't wanna burn through all my E-Z Fillet. I picked up another three quarts and am saving it for my stringers, bulkheads, sole and deck.
tobolamr wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:I have them tucked away under the couch, on the book shelves, in the kitchen cabinets, under the master bed, in the filing cabinet, the laundry room and the garage.
ROFL Next thing you know, you'll be raided by the FBI, confused as having marine contraband around! :lol: Keep up the great work! Any new pics yet? How's the family? Been fishing?
I always wonder if people think I'm mixing meth when I'm walking around with my filter mask on. But no FBI agents yet. Unfortunately no fishing either. I keep putting in the extra downtime on the boat. As for the pics of the boat, here is the latest. It's of the reverse chine I am filling in.

Image

The family is doing great. We just got some pics taken at JC Penny. I though it was going to be boring but it was actually a lot of fun. This is Colton Luke.

Image

This is Elise Noelle. It means Christmas is God's Promise, which I think is totally cool!

Image

And here is the whole fam!

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:24 am
by chopperman
You are truely blessed and have a very nice looking family :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:You are truely blessed and have a very nice looking family :wink:
Thanks! Yeah, they are pretty great.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:28 am
by Joe H
You have a very nice looking family!

I just picked picked up some 406 for fillets on my stringers and frames to the hull, I hope it's better then the 403.

Joe H

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:25 am
by tobolamr
You have a wonderful family! And yes, you are blessed!

You know, I realize that what I'm about to ask/say is a bit late, but it just kinda dawned on me: I wonder if one could have saved a lot of work on that chine by using wood to fill in the majority of it instead of filler? :doh: Get the size roughed out, lay in some epoxy/wood flour slurry, press in some piece of trimmed stock, let set up, and then finish fairing over it? All I know for sure is when I get to my build, this Reverse Chine is going to be in it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Joe H wrote:You have a very nice looking family!

I just picked picked up some 406 for fillets on my stringers and frames to the hull, I hope it's better then the 403.

Joe H
Thanks Joe! Let me know what you think of that 406. The way I was using the 403 was probably not the best application for it. It seemed to light and fluffy if that makes sense. The 404 spreads more like icing which works well for filling in the reverse chine.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:You have a wonderful family! And yes, you are blessed!

You know, I realize that what I'm about to ask/say is a bit late, but it just kinda dawned on me: I wonder if one could have saved a lot of work on that chine by using wood to fill in the majority of it instead of filler? :doh: Get the size roughed out, lay in some epoxy/wood flour slurry, press in some piece of trimmed stock, let set up, and then finish fairing over it? All I know for sure is when I get to my build, this Reverse Chine is going to be in it!
Thanks tobolamr!

I did fill it in with wood... and a lot of it. I used several 1/4 inch strips glued into the chine to fill it. At first I was just gluing in one 6 foot strip at a time and it was taking forever. Then I got up to gluing three strips of six feet at a time, all stacked on top of each other, but staggered on the ends a few inches. If I was to do it again I would purchase an extra sheet of 1/2, 5/8 or maybe even 3/4 inch ply and would laminate up a couple strips at a time. This would have made for much faster work.

I had considered the route you have suggested and this may have been a better way to go. I had a lot of scrap so I went the route of gluing in the strips with as close as a tolerance as I could get to save on epoxy. However, the trade off was time.

Here are a few pics of the process.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I picked up a big ol' thing of 404. I shouldn't run out now. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My fish finder has two transducers and one side scan sonar. I'm planning on installing one transducer in the bilge and the side scan just below the jack plate (per manufacturers recommendation).

As for the second transducer, should I go ahead and install it toward the front?
Would this give me any significant advantage?

I understand bass boats oftentimes have two transducers, one in the front and one in the back. If I go this route, I'm thinking about locating it under the ice chest which is a little more than 1/2 way towards the front, any further than that and the "V" of the hull seems to get too aggressive.

Thanks in advance.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:12 pm
by tobolamr
Casey, regarding the transducer:
If I'm fully on the same page on the setup you have, I believe a good number of folks may opt to use the trolling motor mounted tranducer for that. IE, the transducer already built into the trolling motor head. Otherwise, as mount it as far forward as you can so it's as useful as it can be to you. Buuut, I'm freshwater inland fishing, so maybe it's different offshore/flats fishing? :doh: When I get my new trolling motor, it will have the sonar built in already. Here's hoping this helps!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey, regarding the transducer:
If I'm fully on the same page on the setup you have, I believe a good number of folks may opt to use the trolling motor mounted tranducer for that. IE, the transducer already built into the trolling motor head. Otherwise, as mount it as far forward as you can so it's as useful as it can be to you. Buuut, I'm freshwater inland fishing, so maybe it's different offshore/flats fishing? :doh: When I get my new trolling motor, it will have the sonar built in already. Here's hoping this helps!
tobolamr,

I have a trolling motor, actually two. However, they will be mounted on top of the trim tabs. They-re trim and troll motors that MinnKota offers. The set up I am referring to would be a transducer shooting through the bottom of the hull. I may go ahead and put it on, maybe on the opposite side as the one in the back. There would be maybe an 8 to 10 foot difference between the two.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:05 pm
by tobolamr
Forgot about those trolling motors! Sorry! :oops: I wouldn't see why that wouldn't be a good solution. I have to confess a similar plan on my current boat, if it would have had a chance of working.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm approaching the step where I fiberglass the hull. Since the temps are in 100s and even my small batches of epoxy are sometimes kicking off, I'm thinking about proceeding with drilling and filling all of the holes for the hull first and possibly finishing up the poling platform. Maybe by then the temps will be coming back down.

These include holes for the following hardware; jack plate, shallow water anchors, trim tabs, bait well and live well overflow drain, temp sensor, speed sensor, bow eye, stern eyes, bilge drain, cockpit drain and any others I have forgotten. I have already drilled and filled the holes for the high speed pickup strainer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:50 am
by Cracker Larry
Good idea Casey. Put a little tint in the filler so you can see it easily under the glass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hey I like that idea. I suppose the gray tint that is used for the inside of the hatches will suffice?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:50 pm
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:Since the temps are in 100s and even my small batches of epoxy are sometimes kicking off
I know I'm waiting for the temps to drop. I glued my strakes and even in the morning I still had a mess. I must love sanding. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it gets pretty tacky huh?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So now I need to start to think through the installation holes for the jack plate.

Any advice for me in this area?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I started a thread about transoms to get a feel for how to proceed. I will put my discovers on this specific build thread as I continue the work. I figured transoms was a good enough topic to have on it's own.

If you have time, please comment on my questions. Here is the thread. Transoms and jackplates and all the cool stuff you bolt on.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been measuring the the items for the transom (Jack plate, Trim and Troll, Shallow Water Anchor) and it appears that I will have to order a smaller set of trim tabs. I have 9 cord by 12 span. I think 12 cord x 9 span will be the way to go. This will give me three more inches of room to work with for squeezing my shallow water anchors in between my trim tabs and the legs of the poling platform.

If there is still not enough room and they anchors want to bump into the poling platform, I will have to order or make a small extension bracket for the anchors to move them away from the transom. Minn Kota sells this. Hopefully I won't have to order them.

I measured all the hardware for the transom and emailed the measurements to my father in OK. He is going to sketch them up on AutoCad for me to see if we can squeeze in the anchors without a bracket. I could find out really quick if my boat weren't upside down. From simply taking some measurements with my tape measure it looks like my margin of error may be an inch or less. So I guess we better go the Autocad route.

It's 11:53 PM and the outside temps just finally fell below 90. No epoxy for me tonight. That garage feels like an oven.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:50 am
by thb
I would knock a hole in the wall and hang a small room A/C unit in it and keep on building. :lol:
If the wall is wood use chain saw, if concrete use concrete cutoff saw. It would be cool by this afternoon.
Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
You know I have considered adding a couple of registers to the ceiling with a big directional valve of some sort that I could pull to flow cool or warm air into the garage. Maybe I should look into this a little closer. Hmmmm

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:36 am
by cali123
You know I have considered adding a couple of registers to the ceiling with a big directional valve of some sort that I could pull to flow cool or warm air into the garage. Maybe I should look into this a little closer. Hmmmm
That type of heaing/cooling system would work well. Just make sure that there is no intake in the garage. You want a "total loss" system because it is explosion proof and will expell any bad air in the work area. Good luck

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cali123 - that's sound advice. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am looking for a classy stainless drain for the very far back/center of my cockpit floor. I'm planning on having two drains in the back corners that flow through the hull, but I figure one in the middle is a good idea too.

However, I' also considering construing my cockpit floor to be about 1/4 inch higher down the middle so water is forced the sides. This would allow me to skip the middle drain all together. I would prefer this route.


Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:48 pm
by Prarie Dog
Casey, think I would skip the middle drain even without making the sole high in the middle. If you catch a wave underway, believe the correct technique is to go full throttle which will jam all the water against the back frame, then drain out at the corners. IMHO one in the middle is overkill. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I was thinking this but then got different suggestions from others earlier when I brought it up. I think I will go with what you are suggesting and skip the center drain. You make a good point. I have never been in a boat that did not go from side to side from one min to the next.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:36 am
by davidtx
I haven't taken a wave yet, but based on how fast water drains out my 1 1/4" drains when washing it here on a sloped driveway, I'm thinking about 3" drains. :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Really!?! Maybe I should reconsider having three drains.

Do you guys know of a good way to pass wire through the transom? I have three wires to pass through, one for the temp, one for the speed wheel and one for the side scan sonar.

I have seen these but the hole is only 3/4 inch thick and would still require cutting and splicing the speed wheel and the side scan sonar.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:00 pm
by Uncle D
Last time I did something like that, I measured the cable end, cut a hole for that size, ran the cable and then sealed the hole.I think I placed clam shell cover over the outside to make it look good. My .02, Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Don,

You bring up a good option. Those clam shells look pretty classy.

I have looked at them in the past and have found 2 sizes. I need to look a little closer at the smaller one and see if I can get away with a large enough hole to accommodate the screw on fitting but small enough to still be hidden by the clam shell.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:11 pm
by Doc_Dyer
uhhh,

any new photos??

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I will have to get some more rounded up. I'll see what I can do. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:00 pm
by tobolamr
For what's it's worth on the wires... Mine run through the motor well, then over and down the transom. :doh: Works fine by me!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does it look clean? I like a really clean deck for fly fishing. That line seems to get caught on everything! It gets pinched between things, caught on cleats, pulled this way and that, etc... Line entanglement can really ruin a shot at a big fish!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am getting ready to order my brass Moeller drain tubes. I'm looking at the 1-1/8 wide by 2-1/4 length.

How long are the little black plugs that snap into these things? I want to order the 2-1/4 lenght drain tube but only if it doesn't protrude outside the end of the tub and past the hull. Looking at the picture of this plug below it appears as if the lenght of the plug is less than 2 inches and that I would be safe with this lenght. I imagine they would not make the tube shorter than the plug.

Thoughts?

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
Doc_Dyer wrote:uhhh,

any new photos??
Here you go Doc. These are a few pics of the high speed pick up. Please don't miss the post just before this one. It has a couple new questions. :D

I am drilling out the holes for in the hull and backing plate and filling them with epoxy.

I cut the hole for the strainer but had to sand it out just a tad to get the perfect fit.
Image
Here I am getting ready to fill in the holes for the mounting screws.
Image
I haven't sanded it smooth yet but here is what the hull looks like.
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:05 pm
by tech_support
reading through your thread for the first time in a while. I really like the way you tapered the hard chine by gradually reducing the number of layers as you approach the bow - great idea.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Joel!

It seems to be working. I've finished about 5 or 6 feet of the reverse chine toward the bow on both sides. Since this area tapers so much toward the bow it took some patience and concentration getting the thickened epoxy to be symmetrical and uniform on both sides. Now what's left should be a piece of cake since it's pretty uniform from there back.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:59 pm
by WindKnot
Man, I can't wait to start my build this winter!

Here is a little footage that has me pumped to get started.
http://vimeo.com/26241779

Casey, I hope things are good and you are staying cool in this nightmare weather pattern we seem to be stuck in.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
shine wrote:reading through your thread for the first time in a while. I really like the way you tapered the hard chine by gradually reducing the number of layers as you approach the bow - great idea.
Here are a few more pics of the progress.

Image
Image
Image
I still need to fill in some on both sides as you can see in this pic. I glued down the flat piece, with the screws in it, to make a guide. I removed the screws. The outer edge on the chine is about 1/16th higher than all the inner laminates. I will fill with epoxy and run a trowel from the higher outer edge to the outer corner of the flat piece of wood. This will give me a consistent angle all the way down the lenght of the hull. Notice the pencil line. That is roughly where the reverse chine will meet with the hull.
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot wrote:Man, I can't wait to start my build this winter!

Here is a little footage that has me pumped to get started.
http://vimeo.com/26241779

Casey, I hope things are good and you are staying cool in this nightmare weather pattern we seem to be stuck in.
Don't you know it! i can't wait for this heat to pass. I just pulled in my poling platform to measure it for an Autocad drawing. I figure I will move forward on the build where I can. It's sitting in here in my office now.

I look forward to seeing your build. It's great you are starting yours behind mine so you can learn from my mistakes.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:54 pm
by davidtx
flyfishingmonk wrote:I am getting ready to order my brass Moeller drain tubes. I'm looking at the 1-1/8 wide by 2-1/4 length.

How long are the little black plugs that snap into these things? I want to order the 2-1/4 lenght drain tube but only if it doesn't protrude outside the end of the tub and past the hull. Looking at the picture of this plug below it appears as if the lenght of the plug is less than 2 inches and that I would be safe with this lenght. I imagine they would not make the tube shorter than the plug.

Thoughts?

Image
My plugs are 1 3/8" long. They fit 1 1/4" drain tubes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
davidtx wrote:My plugs are 1 3/8" long. They fit 1 1/4" drain tubes.
Thanks David,

Sounds like that 2 1/4" by 1 1/4" will be just the ticket. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Next up. Poling Platform. My platform is small enough to be worked on inside the house. I'm planning on drilling out the over-sized holes for the nav light and the mounting bolts and filling them with epoxy. I hope the wifey doesn't mind the sawdust the forstner bits creates. If I'm sneaky I can vac it up before she even knows it hit the floor. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:45 am
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:I hope the wifey doesn't mind the sawdust the forstner bits creates. If I'm sneaky I can vac it up before she even knows it hit the floor. :D
I'll refer you to the thread just started in the Bilge...

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26858


MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
nice thread

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
wegcagle wrote:I installed my jackplate to the same height as I was going to mount my outboard. (for me 20")

Will
Hi Will, or anyone else...

Can you clarify how the 20" comes into play? Where exactly is this measured from and to where? Bottom of the transom? Bottom of the skeg? Is the 20" to the center line of the prop? More clarification will sure help.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:08 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:
wegcagle wrote:I installed my jackplate to the same height as I was going to mount my outboard. (for me 20")

Will
Hi Will, or anyone else...

Can you clarify how the 20" comes into play. Where exactly is this measured from and to where. Bottom of the transom? Bottom of the skeg? Is the 20" to the center line of the prop? More clarification will sure help.

Sincerely,

Casey
Measuring the engine?

From the mounting bracket, where it rests on the transom, to the cavitation plate. Rule of thumb for engine mount is for the cavitation plate to be at the line extending from the bottom of the transom. So a 20" engine shaft mounted on a 20" transom would line up the cavitation plate with the bottom of the hull.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks MadDog!

So does anybody out there have a favorite place to purchase their hardware, nuts, bolts etc...?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
I just answered that in another thread :lol: Jamestown Distributors, or Hamilton Marine. Both are great, good price, quality and service.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/u ... &page=GRID

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... 2,896.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:51 pm
by wegcagle
Hey Casey,

Maddog is right. When I said 20" I meant that's the standard outboard length (or at least the easiest to find) for the size motor I will be using.

Here's a picture.

Image

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:05 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Next up. Poling Platform. My platform is small enough to be worked on inside the house. I'm planning on drilling out the over-sized holes for the nav light and the mounting bolts and filling them with epoxy. I hope the wifey doesn't mind the sawdust the forstner bits creates. If I'm sneaky I can vac it up before she even knows it hit the floor. :D
Wish I could move the whole boat inside with this heat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:23 am
by TRC886
Mad Dog wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:
wegcagle wrote:I installed my jackplate to the same height as I was going to mount my outboard. (for me 20")

Will
Hi Will, or anyone else...

Can you clarify how the 20" comes into play. Where exactly is this measured from and to where. Bottom of the transom? Bottom of the skeg? Is the 20" to the center line of the prop? More clarification will sure help.

Sincerely,

Casey
Measuring the engine?

From the mounting bracket, where it rests on the transom, to the cavitation plate. Rule of thumb for engine mount is for the cavitation plate to be at the line extending from the bottom of the transom. So a 20" engine shaft mounted on a 20" transom would line up the cavitation plate with the bottom of the hull.

MD :wink:
I'd like to add that the 20" dimension is a vertical dimension...squared up from the bottom of the hull and not measured along the angle of the transom. More importantly, measure your specific engine. Some of today's motors are longer than they are supposed to be.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23459

If you add a skeg, and it extends to the transom, you may have to mount the motor a little lower. Otherwise, during turns the skeg will throw the water away from the prop and you'll spin-out. (The keel of a V-hull does not have this problem, although sometimes, the prop will lose some bite and the engines' RPM will increase a little.)

trc

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TRC886 wrote:I'd like to add that the 20" dimension is a vertical dimension...squared up from the bottom of the hull and not measured along the angle of the transom. More importantly, measure your specific engine. Some of today's motors are longer than they are supposed to be.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23459
Thanks for the clarification. I was measuring it down the transom and not vertical. However, when I measure down from the bottom of the hull to the top of the transom it's right at 21", and this is without taking the skeg into account. Should I take the transom down another inch? The eTec installation manual says the motor will work with transoms ranging from 19 to 21.
TRC886 wrote:If you add a skeg, and it extends to the transom, you may have to mount the motor a little lower. Otherwise, during turns the skeg will throw the water away from the prop and you'll spin-out. (The keel of a V-hull does not have this problem, although sometimes, the prop will lose some bite and the engines' RPM will increase a little.) trc
I'm thinking of stopping the skeg short of the transom maybe 2 feet or so so it doesn't interfere with the transducer that's in the bilge.

Will - I went on the eTec owners forum and asked to see how close the eTec is to 20". Thanks for the pic.


Steven - Yeah, the poling platform is the only thing small enough to bring indoors to work on. My dad's shop has AC. He's up in OK. Maybe one of these day's when I'm more settled and the house is paid for I will invest in a proper AC for the garage. Until then I suppose the laundry room will have to suffice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
When I measure down from the bottom of the hull to the top of the transom it's right at 21", and this is without taking the skeg into account. Should I take the transom down another inch? The eTec installation manual says the motor will work with transoms ranging from 19 to 21.

When I hold the jack plate up to the top of the transom I am coming in right at 21.25" to the top of the jack plate.

The motor's mounting bracket allows me to go up from there an additional 2.25". Which moves me even further from my desired 20". It looks like I may need to drop the jack plate down a couple inches and make the correction back up with the motors mounting bolts. Any further correction can be made with the jack plate itself.

Am I making any sense? It's 100 degrees in this garage and I may be losing it.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Bump. ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:07 am
by Cracker Larry
It looks like I may need to drop the jack plate down a couple inches and make the correction back up with the motors mounting bolts.
No. You are always trying to reinvent the wheel :lol: The jack plate is designed to mount in the standard engine mounting holes, in the standard location. The key word here is standard :wink: Or universal. Both the hole spacing and the distance from the top of the transom to the holes are industry standard. Transom are usually drilled with a jig that hangs from the transom lip, which indexes the holes in the correct location.

Image

This location will give you plenty of travel. My transom is also about 21.5", but I was able to mount the engine on the lowest mounting holes and still have way more than enough range of travel on the plate.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok Cool. Just making sure. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, (at least not on this part :wink: ) I'm just not familiar with the tolerances of this "20 inches" they reference. I get nervous when measuring and don't want to miss anything.

Thank you for your help with this!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:10 am
by Cracker Larry
8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
How was your Boca trip?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:16 am
by Cracker Larry
The Boca trip was great :D The Keys trip was great too :D I tried to slide in a Texas trip this weekend, before another Florida trip next month, but I ran that one up the pole and it didn't fly very well :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Maybe I can make the the TX trip next year. I assume my boat will be done by then. If you make it to that one we can hook up on some fish!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:41 am
by Cracker Larry
When are you coming back this way? Fall redfishing will be good here 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
You know, I may be out that way to help a ministry with some web related stuff, but it hasn't been put on the calendar yet. Other than that, I'm not real sure. Maybe if I'm lucky something will pop up in Atlanta or someplace close. I really want to chase some reds in that boat of yours!

I would use some vacation if I wasn't already planning a stay-cation to work on the boat and a vacation to see the parents.

Maybe something will come together next spring.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I tell ya what, this boat building even in 100 degree weather is really fun. I just ordered a load more of small parts. Valves, thru hulls, aerator control, drain plugs, drain tubes, etc...

So I need to think through the placement of the bow and stern eyes and how to go about reinforcing the bow eye. Any comments?

Here is what the front looks like. What would be the best place for the bow eye in relation to the bow roller?

Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:53 pm
by chopperman
flyfishingmonk wrote:I tell ya what, this boat building even in 100 degree weather is really fun. I just ordered a load more of small parts. Valves, thru hulls, aerator control, drain plugs, drain tubes, etc...
When I was in Dallas a few weeks ago, the 100 degree windy weather felt like a blow dryer was held up to my face. Your hull looks great :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Chopperman,

Thanks for the compliment! I look forward to getting it glassed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:00 pm
by Uncle D
Lookin' good Casey. Fun starts with the fairing. 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks - I hope it goes well. I have easy fair stuff from 3M. Maye that will help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:09 pm
by Steven
Hey Casey. Larry sent me a template for the motor holes. Your welcome to borrow it if you like. We can meet up one day next week for lunch.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

That would be great. Andrew was going to send me one. I'll try to catch him before he mails it to me and he can keep it for the next builder.

Just let me know what day your available. We can hit up chipotle again if your game.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the latest. I have been working on the poling platform. It's the only thing small enough to pull inside to escape the heat.

This is the underside. I'm going to span across the wood over to the aluminum with an additional piece of aluminum, screws on each side. I was wanting to keep from having to attach it from the top so I called my dad up in OK. He came up with this novel idea.

Image

Here is the special cut out I had to have for the stern light. You can see the cut out picture on the iPad. It required two holes.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:40 am
by SmokyMountain
Looking good Casey!! 8) What is the general LxW dimension of your platform? I've been trying to decide how big I want mine. I haven't decided if I'm going to buy a fiberglass one pre-made or make it myself.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Andrew,

The width is 41 and the depth is 29. I have several pics of how I made it if you want me to post them.

Yesterday, Steven told me he has a jig for the holes in the transom so please hang onto that one for the next builder. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Casey, just as a heads up, the template I made for Steven is cardboard. The jig that Richard made Andy is CNC cut wood and would probably be a little easier to use. Your choice of course, both will do the job.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hey Larry thanks for the head up! I'll see if I can go ahead and get Andrew's.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:09 pm
by davidtx
I have a wooden jig that may be easier to get to you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
David that sounds good too. If you would like to drop it in the mail I can send my address.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:44 pm
by davidtx
flyfishingmonk wrote:David that sounds good too. If you would like to drop it in the mail I can send my address.
Give me a shout next week after I get back from POC.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Will do! Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I have been laying out all the stuff for my transom (trim and troll setup, shallow water anchors, jack plate and the other odds and ends). I figured the best way to go about insurig a perfect fit was to build a replica of the transom. It's coming along nicely. The biggest delema is making sure the shallow water anchors dont bump into the poling platform. It looks like I will have to add a spacer to push them out away from the transom a bit. I'll post pics as soon as I finish installing the hardware on the mock up transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
The pic ain't pretty but you can see what I did. I mocked up a transom and two feet of deck on my table saw to see if my trim and toll set up, my shallow water anchors and the poling platform would all get along. They do on the port side, within about an inch or so.

I hope to install the other anchor on the starboard side tomorrow to see if they will fit over there as well. The cowling over the motor on the anchor sits to the left of the mast and it may bump into the side of the poling platform's back leg. I can either move the poling platform frame toward the front a little, which is prob fine and would make it a little easier to install to the deck, or I can put a spacer block between the transom and the anchor's mounting bracket to move the anchor away from the poling platform a little.

I'm glad I went this route because I've already managed to miss drill one hole. It's the hole for the bulkhead fitting that allows the electrical cord for the trolling motor to pass through the transom. The instructions simply say to eye it. Well I eyed it and I was to high under the actuator for the wire to make the bend through the through hull fitting when the actuator was in place. I drilled a second hole an inch lower. I still probably need to drop it down a little or move it over under the shallow water anchor bracket. You can see it under the actuator on the starboard side.

We're also planning on adjusting the poling platform to where it will either fold forward or easily come off all together so this boat can fit inside a garage. We're working up a few good ideas. I want to be able to take if off for bass fishing assuming the back deck may be more utilized without the platform in the way.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:06 am
by Mad Dog
Sweet! Two Talons and tab mounted trolling motors! You're all set, dude. A clear deck with all the shollow water aminities.

I can't tell from the pics, are the Talons leaving you enough room to work your push pole?

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
thanks Mad Dog.

The mast of the anchor rests about an inch or so from the port side back leg of the poling platform. I think it should be good. I hope. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:52 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:thanks Mad Dog.

The mast of the anchor rests about an inch or so from the port side back leg of the poling platform. I think it should be good. I hope. :D
After I posted the question I thought about the electric pushers. The only pole you need is the one with a reel on it! :D

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You mean the only pole I need is the one with a fish on it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:30 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:You mean the only pole I need is the one with a fish on it.
Exactly!!! :D

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well if I can't epoxy stuff in this heat, I can still make some progress.

It's 12:13 AM and still 99 degrees outside.

Here is the result of the mock up transom. It looks like everything will fit.

After adjusting the shallow water anchors to have a little bit of a rake, which made things look much cooler as well, everything lined up just perfect. Pretty soon I'll start drilling and filling the holes in the transom. The epoxy I can mix inside and then walk out and pour it into place.

Image

Here are a few shots of the mock up transom.

Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:40 am
by gstanfield
Nice! I like how you did that, that'll let you do the job just once on the real thing :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:Nice! I like how you did that, that'll let you do the job just once on the real thing :D
Thanks George.

So far I estimate at least 60 holes in the transom to drill and fill for mounting all of the hardware. I hope I don't forget any of them.

There was one I already mis-drilled. It was for the trolling motor wire that passes through a thru-hull fitting. The directions simply said to eye it. The first place I positioned it was too high for the actuator to go on. Now I know just where to put it for the real thing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:53 am
by Uncle D
Now you can use the mock-up as a jig. Wham Bam....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:01 am
by davidtx
Uncle D wrote:Now you can use the mock-up as a jig. Wham Bam....
Good point. Do you still want me to send the motor hole jig? Alternatively, I could just send the dimensions and you could add to your new jig.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Now you can use the mock-up as a jig. Wham Bam....
Well... this would work If I was a little more intentional on the exact location of the holes I drilled into the mock transom. Everything is within maybe a 1/2 inch or so and my holes are not going in perfectly straight into my mock transom. I was using it more or less just as a test to see if everything would indeed fit.
davidtx wrote: Do you still want me to send the motor hole jig? Alternatively, I could just send the dimensions and you could add to your new jig.
I recently found the dimensions online and was considering, as of last night, making a jig and using my jack plate as a jig for the jig. I will let you know if I still need it. Thank you for your willingness to help with this!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Casey, I think you've finally ran out of room to bolt stuff on that boat :P Looks great 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Casey, I think you've finally ran out of room to bolt stuff on that boat :P Looks great 8)
Thanks Larry! I figure if I have it I'll use it. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:10 pm
by davidtx
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Uncle D wrote:Now you can use the mock-up as a jig. Wham Bam....
Well... this would work If I was a little more intentional on the exact location of the holes I drilled into the mock transom. Everything is within maybe a 1/2 inch or so and my holes are not going in perfectly straight into my mock transom. I was using it more or less just as a test to see if everything would indeed fit.
davidtx wrote: Do you still want me to send the motor hole jig? Alternatively, I could just send the dimensions and you could add to your new jig.
I recently found the dimensions online and was considering, as of last night, making a jig and using my jack plate as a jig for the jig. I will let you know if I still need it. Thank you for your willingness to help with this!
I did something with my jig that worked well. I screwed 2x4's over the hole locations and drilled holes with my drill press. This gave me a guide to keep the hole square. I drilled the first hole 1" and used it for the over-sized epoxy hole. I then used some 1" oak dowel to fill those holes and re-drilled with the drill press at actual size for the final holes. I find it hard to get square, concentric holes on the angled, thick transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
David,

That sounds like pretty cool idea. I think I will try it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got to looking at the jack plate and it appears that I will be able to make a jig using the jack-plate without having to dismantle anything. I should be able to construct in maybe an hour or so.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:53 pm
by chopperman
Great planning on the transom. I wish I would have drilled all of my holes earlier. I'm going to nominate you for coolest transom :lol: Don't forget to leave room for the outboard :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:32 am
by timmydafool
Where do you get all those wonderful toys? Man what are you gonna do with all those anchors and tabs and motors and stuff...? If those electric anchors add too much weight you could cut one out and replace it with one of these: they are probably all I will be useing...

http://www.wanganchor.com/

I've been practicing my fairing arms on drywall lately... :cry: I hate sanding that stuff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:37 am
by wegcagle
Did you see that Joel sales those here. $100 for the full package 8)

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... takeholder

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:44 am
by timmydafool
wegcagle wrote:Did you see that Joel sales those here. $100 for the full package 8)

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... takeholder

Will

I knew I'd seen them somewhere for cheap... thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:49 pm
by chopperman
wegcagle wrote:Did you see that Joel sales those here. $100 for the full package 8)

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... takeholder

Will

I bought mine. Very well made :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:05 pm
by wegcagle
Me too :wink: I also got a replacement pole after I accidentally sawed the original one in half while it was hidden behind a piece of ply I was working on :oops:

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
LMAO Will :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:26 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:David,

That sounds like pretty cool idea. I think I will try it.

These work well too.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:Great planning on the transom. I wish I would have drilled all of my holes earlier. I'm going to nominate you for coolest transom :lol: Don't forget to leave room for the outboard :wink:
Thanks chopperman,

It's coming along nicely. Today the Atwood transom drain that Steven recommended came in along with an aerator control and a three way valve for the live well and bait well. I also got my Muller drain tubes and a couple plastic Perko Stern pole light holders to hide the light somewhere under the gunwale. A couple of thru-hulls came in for the transom as well but they were the wrong size. The vendor is sending me the correct ones.

Timmy and Wegcagle,

I have seen those stake out poles before and they are very cool. I would like to get a couple of those for the FS18 if I build it. That stinks that you sawed your steak out pole in half. Better that then your leg!!!

Steven,


That thing looks like it would do the trick. Great! One more cool to buy. Directed toward my wife - "Honey! we need to discuss something for the shop. I'm sure you will love it!"

Andrew! I got the jig. It looks like it's gonna work great. Thanks!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:54 pm
by Mad Dog
Steven wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:David,

That sounds like pretty cool idea. I think I will try it.

These work well too.

Image
I have a Craftsman brand. Don't buy that brand. The part holding the chuck snapped in two when a hole saw got bound up. It's not warrantied for life. I checked. The replacement part was two thirds of the original cost. It's on the shelf, still busted. There are better brands at Woodworker's Supply. Spend more for a better tool.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hmm maybe the 2 X 4 idea is looking better better.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:10 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:Hmm maybe the 2 X 4 idea is looking better better.
Just saying to shop around for a quality tool. I bought a $30 tool that didn't last . :x

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
For about $100 you can buy a table top drill press. Use it to drill straight holes in a 2X4, then use the 2X4 as a drilling guide on the hull. Everybody needs a drill press :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a 14" floor stand Delta here at the house. I picked it up at Lowes. I actually talked them down to $350 for their floor model drill press AND their floor model jointer, the combo for $350. I then sold the jointer for $250 to make room for building the boat and kept the drill press. It was a smoking deal! It came with a light and a laser and everything. :D

The benefit of course of that smaller contraption is you can hold it anywhere.

I'll knock out some 2 X 4s.

I wrote another article for fun. Bevel Edge Chisels – A Must Have for Any Boat Builder. I probably need to read it over a couple more times to make sure I eliminate all the typos.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:11 pm
by Steven
Mad Dog wrote:
Steven wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:David,

That sounds like pretty cool idea. I think I will try it.

These work well too.

Image
I have a Craftsman brand. Don't buy that brand. The part holding the chuck snapped in two when a hole saw got bound up. It's not warrantied for life. I checked. The replacement part was two thirds of the original cost. It's on the shelf, still busted. There are better brands at Woodworker's Supply. Spend more for a better tool.

MD :wink:
That's from Rockler and has been used for lots of holes. Not fragile at all. Just drilled two 1 1/4" drain tube holes for the cockpit.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote: That's from Rockler and has been used for lots of holes. Not fragile at all. Just drilled two 1 1/4" drain tube holes for the cockpit.
I can see the benefit of this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everybody,

Two questions.

1. I have a paddle wheel for Speed Over Water. Is it worth putting on? It looks simple enough. I will have GPS and I have read the benefits of having it, but I'm curious to know if it's worth dorking with. The other device is the temp sensor. This I am going to put on.

2. Below is a pic of the jack plate between the two shallow water anchors. I'm planning on an Evinrude eTec 115. Just as a guess, do you see that the shallow water anchors will give me any problems with the turning of the motor?

The third pic is of the transom drain.

Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:03 pm
by Steven
I would install the paddle wheel. GPS gives speed over land. Paddle wheel gives speed relative to current. If I'm trolling and want to pull the lures through the water at 3 knots, and I'm moving with a 2 knot current, at 3 knots GPS my lure will only be doing 1 knot through the water.

Did you see if there is a diagram for the etec with measurements and arc's of swing. I know Suzuki provides one. Measuring is the only way to know for certain.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good Steven. I will install it then. I drilled holes into the transom for it this evening. It's going to work out well. I'm going to come right out from behind the jack plate and the wires will pretty much be hidden for the paddle wheel, the temp sensor and the side scan sonar.

A friend sent me a link with the info on the motor's swing. I need to look at it a little closer, but it looks like I will be OK.

Have a great Monday!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
I ordered more thru-hull fittings this week. Two MinnKota fittings for passing the wires to the shallow water anchors through the transom, and three Groco fittings for draining the bait well, live well and bilge.

I'm almost done mapping out all the holes for the transom. When I am I'll add them all up and let you know how many I have to drill and fill.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are the thru hull drains for the live well, bait well and bilge. I could go with one drain for the live well and the bait well and combine the 4 hoses in the bilge (2 hoses for the overflows of each well and 2 for the drains for each well).

However, I think two independent drains will be a cleaner/safer set up because I can keep the hoses separate for each tank's overflow and drain. I also see this as a fail safe. Say I am only using one bait well, but both wells are draining through one thru hull, and this drain has a plug, then I run a good risk of filling up the other well, which may be holding gear that should not get wet. The Bob's Machine Shop backing plate was just bolted on as a reference but will obviously be on the other side of the transom.

In the pics below you will see my mock transom. The wires coming out are for the temp, speed wheel and the side scan sonar. If you guys see anything that looks funny please speak up now, because I am preparing to drill holes into my real transom. Everything is symmetrical, it just doesn't look it from the angle of the pics.

Thanks - Casey

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:32 pm
by Steven
Will you be able service the transducers with the wires routed behind the jack plate? Seems like it would be tough to unscrew the wire keepers if you have to replace a transducers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hmm good call. I'm looking at it now and your right, their ain't a lot of room. I'll change some stuff around and post it back up to get your input. I think it looks much cleaner routed behind. Fishing through the holes in the transom, and even refilling the holes with sealer should not be hard, but i can sure see your point with the fasteners.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok Steven - How about this?

All the fasteners are accessible under the jack plate and I can pull the wires up snug enough to rest aganist the transom until the 3M sealer dries.

Thoughts?

Casey

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:50 am
by Steven
That looks better. I'm planning on an HDS unit as well. How large do the holes in the transom need to be for the transducer plugs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:59 am
by Steven
I have a large thru hull low on the hull for my livewell drain. It was a pain to fit because the inner and outer skin of the transom is not perfectly parallel close to the bottom. In the bilge I have several layers of tabbing and cloth so there is a bit of a taper towards the bottom. This could be avoided by using larger widths of 12oz. cloth for tape, instead of the standard 6" wide tape. This would put the seem edges above the location of the thru hulls. I had to do a lot of grinding on the insde to get the nut flange to sit flush. Something to consider.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Great! I think the instructions called for a 7/8ths but I measured the plug and it was a little larger so I bumped it up to 1 inch and it worked well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:16 am
by Uncle D
If you have to replace those thru hulls, with the wires running behind the jackplate, are you going to have to pull the engine/jackplate to have enough room?? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven and I were just looking into that. At first I was setting up myself for a potential problem and he caught it, so I changed it. The only fasteners that now hold on the wires are just below the jack plate and I can reach them. It looks like I will be able to fish the wires out from behind the plate. I'll test it once tonight just to be sure.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
So here is the stern eye placement on the mock transom. Do you guys seen any problem with it's location? I know they're pretty straight forward. The duct tape shows the location of how far the rub rail will hang down and the duct tape also shows what a 2 inch overhand would look like.

The bottom picture is of the cables passing through the transom for the shallow water anchor and the trim and troll set up. The fittings are hidden behind the mounting brackets and above the water line.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:58 am
by davidtx
flyfishingmonk wrote:So here is the stern eye placement on the mock transom. Do you guys seen any problem with it's location? I know they're pretty straight forward. The duct tape shows the location of how far the rub rail will hang down and the duct tape also shows what a 2 inch overhand would look like.

The bottom picture is of the cables passing through the transom for the shallow water anchor and the trim and troll set up. The fittings are hidden behind the mounting brackets and above the water line.

Image

Image
You might want to check where the other end of the strap is going to be on your trailer and then mockup the strap path. You've got lots of stuff back there that you don't want a strap rubbing on.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
davidtx wrote:You might want to check where the other end of the strap is going to be on your trailer and then mockup the strap path. You've got lots of stuff back there that you don't want a strap rubbing on.
Hi David,

I am planning on custom building the trailer and this is about the only spot I have that is unobstructed. I think if I pull the strap straight down or down and away from the boat I should be good. Anything more toward the keel is incumbered by the trim tabs, shallow water anchors and motor. I may be stuck with this as my only option. I was looking at a couple other flats boats of similar size and they had them located in this position. I suppose I may have to get creative with trailer. :doh:

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:05 am
by Uncle D
Try your U-bolt at the same angle as your sheer instead of vertical. I know, It's just a matter of taste or eye candy. Temps are going to drop soon. Time to gear-up. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
That does sound like a good tweak. I'll try that tonight and I'll post up a pick.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:10 am
by Steven
Uncle D wrote:Try your U-bolt at the same angle as your sheer instead of vertical. I know, It's just a matter of taste or eye candy. Temps are going to drop soon. Time to gear-up. :D
Agreed. Canted will look much better.

Are you building your trailer your self, or have you selected a builder. I'm looking for a builder now and it's a challenge. I found one 3 hours south. 2200.00 base price for an adjustable 4 bunk aluminum trailer. I want to have it done by the end of
Sept.

Unrelated: Have you already purchased your Etec?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Steven,

I may build the trailer myself. My father purchased a new welder and we're thinking about building one out of aluminum. However, we may go the custom route with a mfg. Not sure. I haven't thought out that far.

As for the eTec, I have not purchased it yet. I have purchased everything but the motor and the control cables. I was thinking about going with mail order to find the cheapest price, and then installing the software and programming the engine myself with a PC. I purchased the motor interface cable, and I'll pick up the software when I get my engine.

What are your plans for your motor?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:14 pm
by Steven
I think I solved the trailer problem.

http://boat-trailers.net/Home/tabid/38/Default.aspx

They say they're the only manufacturer of boat trailers in Texas that are NMMA and NATM Certified for what that's worth.

$2250.00 includes Single axle/galv. torsion, welded Aluminum Frame, LED lights and Galv. wheels. with 4 Adjustable bunks. Alum. wheel upgrade is 85.00/whl. Looks like a trip to Galveston before the end of the month. I'm not sure how much you could save building one yourself. If I was an accomplished aluminum welder, I'd look into it, but seems like it would be risky without experience building them.

Looks like the best deal I can find on a 4 stroke Yammy is $8000.00. Whittle Boats up in your neck of the woods. :) Fun and Sun quoted me $8200.00. I'll probably get them to meet Whittles price because they are not too far from me. Do you have a ballpark idea of what you expect the ETEC to run with shipping?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Those do look like nice trailers. I ordered some trailer plans from another boat building website ad it looks pretty straight forward. I have a buddy here at work that used to weld in the service as a professional welder. I may have him help me build it if he's available. However, that looks like they make a quality trailer. That would be the easier route to go. I wonder if they have tongues that break over? My goal is to be able to store the boat in my garage. I bet they do.

As for the motor, I anticipate to be out about $8,500 for the 115hp.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:17 pm
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:As for the motor, I anticipate to be out about $8,500 for the 115hp.
COOL, I like horsepower. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:51 pm
by Steven
Have you identified an a retailer for it? It weighs about the same as the 90 4 stroke.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
As in have I found a place to purchase it yet? No sir. Do you know of a good place? I am mainly concerned with the lowest price since I will install and program the motor myself.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:26 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:As in have I found a place to purchase it yet? No sir. Do you know of a good place? I am mainly concerned with the lowest price since I will install and program the motor myself.
I don't. I just submitted a quote request on Evinrudes sight to see what a local dealer comes up with. Does Evinrude require a Dealer inspection for warranty. I know Yamaha does.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hmmm I don't know... I can ask over at the Evinrude owners forum and see what they say.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I just submitted a quote request on Evinrudes sight to see what a local dealer comes up with. Does Evinrude require a Dealer inspection for warranty. I know Yamaha does.
I asked the guys over at the Evinrude forum to see how it works with the warranty and the DIY guys.

I will look for that 1/2 shank 3/4 cove bit. Maybe a Whiteside. I like their products.

I think this is what you guys were talking about. Man it's a toss up. They both look good to me.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:40 am
by SmokyMountain
I asked the guys over at the Evinrude forum to see how it works with the warranty and the DIY guys.
The Suzukui guys I bought my motor from said I could rig it and before starting it let them inspect it; that way the warranty is still good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
That sounds reasonable. I'll look into that. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:36 am
by davidtx
flyfishingmonk wrote:
I think this is what you guys were talking about. Man it's a toss up. They both look good to me.

Image
I vote for this one, but then again, I'm biased :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:00 pm
by Uncle D
Yea, me 2

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:06 pm
by Steven
Hey Casey,

I got a reply back to my quote request on Evinrudes site from Lynns Marine out by Cedar Creek.

"Price of a new 2012 90 HP ETEC engine is $9145.00 plus the rigging kit. My sale price on overstocked engines is $7560.00 plus the rigging kit. The price of the 115 HP ETEC engine is $8590.00 sale price."


He has some 2011 overstock 90's. I'm waiting on a quote back for adjusting the cables and doing the initial programming and startup. I'd feel better about having them do it. Reduce any future complications.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:11 pm
by davidtx
Steven wrote:Hey Casey,

I got a reply back to my quote request on Evinrudes site from Lynns Marine out by Cedar Creek.

"Price of a new 2012 90 HP ETEC engine is $9145.00 plus the rigging kit. My sale price on overstocked engines is $7560.00 plus the rigging kit. The price of the 115 HP ETEC engine is $8590.00 sale price."


He has some 2011 overstock 90's. I'm waiting on a quote back for adjusting the cables and doing the initial programming and startup. I'd feel better about having them do it. Reduce any future complications.
Wow, $1,000 more for an E-tech 90 than what I just paid for my 90 Yamaha.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:32 pm
by Steven
davidtx wrote:
Steven wrote:Hey Casey,

I got a reply back to my quote request on Evinrudes site from Lynns Marine out by Cedar Creek.

"Price of a new 2012 90 HP ETEC engine is $9145.00 plus the rigging kit. My sale price on overstocked engines is $7560.00 plus the rigging kit. The price of the 115 HP ETEC engine is $8590.00 sale price."


He has some 2011 overstock 90's. I'm waiting on a quote back for adjusting the cables and doing the initial programming and startup. I'd feel better about having them do it. Reduce any future complications.
Wow, $1,000 more for an E-tech 90 than what I just paid for my 90 Yamaha.

Was the Yamaha 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - Thanks for the pricing info. Do you know if that $8590 is for a 2012?

David - Those Yammys are that much less huh? Sounds like you got a good price.

Don and David - Thanks for the feedback on the Stern Eye.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:44 pm
by Steven
He didn't specify on the year model for the 115 but I suspect it's 2011. I wouldn't worry about that since the warranty starts with purchase.

Definitely slant the stern eyes. :)


If David got a 4 stroke for that price, I'll drive down next week and pick one up if there's any left. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:50 pm
by Uncle D
I'm thinkin he had a 2 banger, but I'll wait for his answer

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:21 pm
by Steven
Uncle D wrote:I'm thinkin he had a 2 banger, but I'll wait for his answer

Me too. But still might consider it if they have any left.

Casey,

The Evinrude is NMEA 2000 compliant, but still requires a Tach with Systems Check according to the GM I've been dealing with. I haven't researched yet, but I seem to remember you plan on running gages through your HDS unit also. You might already know this. From a quick check it appears to be just a Tach with warning lights. See some for 80 bucks on ebay. Not sure why that functionality wouldn't be there over the NMEA network.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:12 pm
by Coast
The picture on on page 76 shows a four stroke - "davidtx's TX-18"

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:28 pm
by davidtx
4-stroke. F90TLR.

See: http://www.lmcboats.com/new_vehicle_lis ... ard+Motors

Yamaha was running a special when I bought mine so I got some extra years on the warranty for $90 (it was either 2 or 3 extra years on top of the 3 year). I don't know if its still available. I dealt with Frank and he was very helpful.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:33 pm
by Steven
Thanks. I'll give him a call. The best price I can find one is $8k even. Which is what he has on his web site.

Now back to your regularly scheduled PH18 build. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:40 pm
by davidtx
sorry about the thread jack. :oops:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
Local dealer add on new 4 stroke Yamahas, advertised on Savannah craigslist. These prices can be negotiated. They might still have some 2 strokes in inventory :wink:

http://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/2551407315.html
ALL NEW UNITS, MOST STILL IN THE BOXS. !!!NOW IS THE TIME TO REPOWER YOUR BOAT!!!


F50- $5,995

F60 $6,495

F70 $7,248

F90 $8,265

F115 $9,570

F150 $12,156

F250 $14,900

MANY MORE MOTORS IN STOCK, COME SEE WHY LOCKWOOD MARINE HAS BEEN ONE OF THE TOP 100 BOAT DEALERS IN THE US. FOR 6 YEARS CALL 912-832-6250 THANKS

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:06 pm
by wegcagle
WOW :!: Nice prices. 8) C.L. can you talk him into overbuying in about 2 years ? :D :lol: That 60 sure would look good on the back of a GV15.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:21 pm
by MarkOrge
FYI on the systems check - you can get the system check set of warning lights by itself with no tach from Faria, and alleviate the need for the tach if you want. I went with the tach and check when I bought my 115 a few years ago but you can separate them if you want, you may need to split the harness, I can't remember and with my build underway my engine is in storage.....not sure of that helps....

http://faria-instruments.com/cgi-bin/si ... &id=GP9836

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Casey,

The Evinrude is NMEA 2000 compliant, but still requires a Tach with Systems Check according to the GM I've been dealing with. I haven't researched yet, but I seem to remember you plan on running gages through your HDS unit also. You might already know this. From a quick check it appears to be just a Tach with warning lights. See some for 80 bucks on ebay. Not sure why that functionality wouldn't be there over the NMEA network.
This seems like it would be redundant. When I look through the install manual for the gauges and wiring harnesses etc... it doesn't have anything for the plain jane system check. I figure it doesn't since the NMEA spits out all this info and the gauges have alarms with them to notify you when somethings triggers a system check code. :doh:

You are correct about the HDS. The console will also be equipped with two 3" gauges.

On a side note. I got some great work done last night on the hull and the poling platform.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:03 pm
by MarkOrge
I think know what you mean, I am sure the plug for the system check and the plug for the tach are separate...sincere apologies if I am incorrect.

I suggest this as on my last boat I used the Faria combo gauge and the "system check" portion is quite small along the bottom, and once when I had an alarm I had to squint with my aging eyes to see I was low on oil. I am considering just tach and the larger display of the stand alone system check for my next boat. An extra guage I know and no other beneifit but just my $ .02 ...

Cheers!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You are correct, they are separate cables. I'll look into seeing if I need both. Thanks everybody for your feedback on this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You are correct, they are separate cables. I'll look into seeing if I need both. Thanks everybody for your feedback on this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am approaching the fiber-glassing of the hull. I am shooting for the second week in October. I have about a dozen things left to do on the boat between now and then.

I have purchased samples of two different release fabrics from Joel to experiment with. Has anybody worked with the peel ply, West System release fabric or any similar products? I'm looking for tips, tricks and what to avoid.

Thanks

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:52 am
by Uncle D
Here Casey, check this out. Hope this helps. I rolled my hull, probably should have at least used a squeegee but I feel I didn't use too much extra epoxy. I kept rolling thin and pushing forward.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... t=peel+ply

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Don. I will check it out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:27 pm
by chopperman
Uncle D wrote:Here Casey, check this out. Hope this helps. I rolled my hull, probably should have at least used a squeegee but I feel I didn't use too much extra epoxy. I kept rolling thin and pushing forward.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... t=peel+ply
I just read that tutural. I'm going to give it a try. I always end up with a couple of air pockets that just don't seem to lay flat when wet. Thanks :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:49 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

On small jobs I think the peel ply would work well, but when glassing the outside of the hull I would keep it simple. I just used a bondo spreader / squeegee. I got a good thin job with no bubbles.. just my opinion :wink: I would definely get someone to help you, it will go alot faster.

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am taking that week off of work and my dad is coming down from OKC to lend a hand. I think I have also rounded up a buddy from work as well that is going to help with the mixing. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
What's the best way to go about filling holes in the transom after you drill them out? I have West System 404 but the epoxy still seems to sag a bit.

I'm thinking of duct taping both sides and simply filling it with a syringe from the top. I believe this will be my best option and will come out the smoothest. I also have ez-fillet. It will adhere without sagging, but I'm leery of using it for mounting hardware.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:58 am
by Steven
I tape one side with clear packing tape. It stretches taught. Then use a childrens syringe to fill. On the big holes for the overflow drains, using a dowel is advisable. That's a good sized amount of epoxy, and when it kicks it will get very hot. I cover a board with packing tape and screw a dowel to it as long as the hole is deep. Then screw or clamp the board to one side with the dowel centered. For these, I taped a small length of straw taped to a childs medicine syringe and fill the space around the dowel, starting at the bottom and working up and out.

If you try to fill the holes perfectly flush, the epoxy will shrink and you will have a small depression to fill. I always overfill slightly and sand down flush.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
I was planning on filling the middle with a dowel. However, how are you keeping the epoxy from sagging? When you thicken it up does it still not sag or is it hard to pump through the syringe? My transom is not flat so gravity is against me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:10 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:I was planning on filling the middle with a dowel. However, how are you keeping the epoxy from sagging? When you thicken it up does it still not sag or is it hard to pump through the syringe? My transom is not flat so gravity is against me.

I use wood flour and mix to a consistency that's a little looser than for fillets. You can inject it in and tape it up faster than it can sag out. Tape half way up the side you fill from to start. You want some sag to make sure it flows and doesn't leave any pockets. Another way is to make it more putty thick. Work it in from both sides and then tape. I prefer the first way because I think the wetter mixture bonds better. At least in my mind it does. Holes are of course pre-wetted, so it probably doesnt' matter.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
OK I got ya. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:00 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:OK I got ya. Thanks!

The childrens syringes I use are the ones that come with prescriptions. They don't have any rubber. All plastic so no worry about silicon contamination. Alcohol or Acetone do not hurt them, so they can be reused over again. I think I've only used 2 the entire build, and I"ve filled a lot of holes. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. I have a couple of west system syringes. After I burn through those I'll sweet talk the people at CVS into hooking me up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:59 pm
by chopperman
Steven: Great idea on the syringes. I think I have a few in the medicine cabinet. How are you cleaning out the inside of the syringes? Are you cleaning them wet or breaking the epoxy out after it sets?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:09 pm
by wegcagle
Keep a cup of acetone, pull the syringes apart and just toss them in the cup. At the end of the work session you can just wipe off the syringes and let them dry. This is what's worked best for me.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:02 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:Cool. I have a couple of west system syringes. After I burn through those I'll sweet talk the people at CVS into hooking me up.
No need to sweet talk them. You can buy them for about buck. I bought a 12cc and a 6cc to measure out micro batches of epoxy. Works great, easy to clean and reuse them many times.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Nice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:36 pm
by davidtx
Mad Dog wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Cool. I have a couple of west system syringes. After I burn through those I'll sweet talk the people at CVS into hooking me up.
No need to sweet talk them. You can buy them for about buck. I bought a 12cc and a 6cc to measure out micro batches of epoxy. Works great, easy to clean and reuse them many times.

MD :wink:
Now you tell me :roll: I never did come up with a good way to do micro-batches.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:51 pm
by gstanfield
I bought a few dozen of them from CLC along with their super handy fillet tools 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fillet tool? What's this fillet tool you speak of old wise one?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:57 pm
by gstanfield
First off, I'm not advertising for another site. In fact I like most of the plans here better than the ones on there. I do however like some of their tools that they offer for sale :wink: For $4.75 I like them and have used a ton of them. I cut them apart with a fine kerf Japanese pull saw and as long as you wipe off the goop you can continue reusing them time and time again. It gives you multiple options for fillet size and allows for consistency by using the same radius on all fillets. :D

Image


EDIT:
Joel or JM, if you don't want this posted here delete and please accept my apology. I only post it since you guys don't offer the same thing :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
After I burn through those I'll sweet talk the people at CVS into hooking me up
Funny, about 2 weeks ago I went up to the local CVS just to get some syringes for epoxy, I had bought them there in the past. The pharmacist asked if I had a prescription that required a syringe and I told him no, I was using them for glue. He wouldn't sell them to me :!: I argued with him for 5 minutes, no success, then drove right next door, literally, to the farm supply store. They had cases of them on the shelves, any size you wanted, no prescription required. A 3 pack for $1. Crazy world :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Blame it on the libs. It's prob somehow their fault.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:10 pm
by gstanfield
Larry, you probably looked went in covered with white dust from sanding and he thought you were a Heroin addict :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:04 pm
by Mad Dog
Cracker Larry wrote:
After I burn through those I'll sweet talk the people at CVS into hooking me up
Funny, about 2 weeks ago I went up to the local CVS just to get some syringes for epoxy, I had bought them there in the past. The pharmacist asked if I had a prescription that required a syringe and I told him no, I was using them for glue. He wouldn't sell them to me :!: I argued with him for 5 minutes, no success, then drove right next door, literally, to the farm supply store. They had cases of them on the shelves, any size you wanted, no prescription required. A 3 pack for $1. Crazy world :doh:
Just to be clear, I was talking about infant dosing syringes, not an injection syringe (ie needle). I have no idea why CVS would need a prescription for dosing syringes. :doh:

Image

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:15 am
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I made a lot of fillet tools with different size hole saws too. If you already have hole saw just cut some out of your scrap and find the size you like... easy breezy. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:38 am
by davidtx
SmokyMountain wrote:Casey,

I made a lot of fillet tools with different size hole saws too. If you already have hole saw just cut some out of your scrap and find the size you like... easy breezy. 8)
Did you glue the holes on the end of sticks?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been cutting them out of 1/4 Masonite. Seems to work kinda well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:08 am
by Uncle D
I went to Horrible Freight and bought the bulk pac of body spreaders then with my super duper scissors, cut em to the shape I needed then usually toss em. Oh and now I know the secret for micro measuring epoxy. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:36 am
by cali123
Fillet tool? What's this fillet tool you speak of
I agree that every boatbuilder needs a good selection of bondo spreaders but after a couple of questionable filletting attempts, I headed for the bag of leftover kitchen utinsels. I found a tablespoon that had the shape I was looking for. They are shapable (if you want) ,shape the fillet nicely,reuseable,and have a handle already attached. For a larger radius,use a soup spoon . :idea: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:54 am
by SmokyMountain
Did you glue the holes on the end of sticks?
No, didn't think of that ... :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:55 pm
by Mad Dog
davidtx wrote:Now you tell me :roll: I never did come up with a good way to do micro-batches.
UncleD wrote:Oh and now I know the secret for micro measuring epoxy. I went to Horrible Freight and bought the bulk pac of body spreaders then with my super duper scissors, cut em to the shape I needed then usually toss em. Oh and now I know the secret for micro measuring epoxy. :D
Dang it! I should have patented the secret before I gave it to world. :roll: :D

You guys will find lots of opportunities to use that trick. In building and rebuilding there isn't much need for such tiny batches but once you start doing touch ups and such they come in very handy.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:58 pm
by Mad Dog
SmokyMountain wrote:
Did you glue the holes on the end of sticks?
No, didn't think of that ... :doh:
It's probably just me but I had to go back reread the previous posts before this one made any sense at all. How do you glue a hole on the end of a stick? :doh:

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Everyone knows how to glue a hole on the end of a stick! :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:25 pm
by Steven
Mad Dog wrote:
SmokyMountain wrote:
Did you glue the holes on the end of sticks?
No, didn't think of that ... :doh:
It's probably just me but I had to go back reread the previous posts before this one made any sense at all. How do you glue a hole on the end of a stick? :doh:

MD :wink:

Wasn't just you. :) ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question... Has anybody used the little tube of dye from Evercoat before? Larry suggested filling the holes on my transom with dyed epoxy to make them easier to see. I like this idea. I picked up a small tube of black dye at West Marine that says it's compatible with epoxy. I only plan to use it on the holes and nothing else.

Thoughts?

Thanks - Casey

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:20 pm
by Steven
Good idea. I remember seening shine do that.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well the work area became a mess, but I got some real progress done the last few days.

86 holes. Now its time to fill'em back up.

Image

Here is my template with all my notes on it.

Image

Here is the mounting bracket for the shallow water anchor.

Image

This is the trim and troll set up.

Image

And Colton found that the Jack Plate made a great place to play hot wheels and airplanes.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:56 am
by gstanfield
Image

WOW 8O That's a whole lotta holes :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:19 am
by Cracker Larry
8O 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:44 am
by timmydafool
8O You might wanna add an extra gallon or 2 of foam to make sure its unsinkable with all them holes... :lol: man thats gonna be awesome with all those toys on the back...

if I ever get around to building :roll: I'll probably just have a motor and tie down loops. One step closer though just got shelves to build in the baby room then finish the laundry room do some plumbing, tape, mud and paint the hallway, and then completely redo a bathroom...and the baby wing is done. One good thing though the bedroom is done, and it came out great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:57 am
by Uncle D
gstanfield wrote:Image

WOW 8O That's a whole lotta holes :!:
This is the New Bateau Lite transom design 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well, since I am the flyfishingmonk I figured it needed the boat to be "holy."

Timmy - Get that house done so you can start on that boat!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:02 pm
by chopperman
"Holy Cow" :lol: Looks great! You saved a lot of work by pre-planning your holes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks. I'm hoping it will help.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:32 pm
by Mad Dog
All that pre-planning was a grand idea. You know everything will fit and now you can do all the filling in one step. Unlike me, I had the hull painted and realized I needed a few more holes. :cry: Nice job. :D


MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks MD. I hope to start filling the holes maybe tonight.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:41 pm
by tobolamr
timmydafool - you're not the ONLY one waiting to get a build going! :roll:

Casey - you sure did swiss cheese that transom... But it's gonna be awesome!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
"Casey - you sure did swiss cheese that transom... But it's gonna be awesome!
Thanks bro!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My goal was to get some of the holes filled in last night with black epoxy but this heat has picked back up. The next cool front is getting ready to pass through again so it will be nice to be back up an running. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:04 am
by Uncle D
Glad you guys will at least get that cooler air. It's not going to make it this far South. :x

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
It looks like it is already cooling off. It is in the 80s now. I almost have the mock transom dismantled and all of the hardware stored back in their boxes. Hopefully tonight I will be back in full swing on the epoxy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am almost done with filling the 86 holes.

I tried two different brands of packing tape, Target and 3M, and both leaked really bad. I then sealed the wood about 2 inches around each hole to get the tape to stick better, but they still leaked.

I should have gone with my guy\t originally and that was to use the gray electrician's bundling tape. I used it for the fillets and it worked really well. The downside is you cant see the epoxy filling up which is no big deal because you know when it's full, it starts to ooze out the top.

Today I used the new tape on several holes and I have not seen a single leak. I will know more in the morning.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
I just pulled the electrician's bundling tape off and it was a total success over the clear packing tape. No epoxy leaks at all. I also thickened the epoxy just a tad on this round befor i dyed it black and that may have helped too. But it was still plenty liquid to pull up into the syringe. The tape came off so sticky I could use it again but I won't risk it. Epoxy was perfect. For the last 10 holes on the transom I'll skip the filler and go straight epoxy and see if it slips under the electrician's tape.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:26 am
by Steven
Hmmm. I never have any leakage. heavy duty 3M holds strong. Why no filler on the last holes?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Oh just because I'm curious to see if the tape is sticky enough to keep a seal without the little bit of added filler. I wonder why the packing tape was leaking? Maybe I had the wrong tape. I did not toss in any filler on those batches and even on the third batch with the new tape I hardly used any. It sort of worked with the packing tape, but prob 1/3 of the holes leaked. It just doesen't seem sticky enough. I'll post up some pics of the 86 holes when it's complete. Hopefully i can work on it tonight.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
For clarification - I have been taping the holes and filling through the top with a syringe, not packing the hole with thickened epoxy and taping over. Maybe that's the difference. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:47 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:For clarification - I have been taping the holes and filling through the top with a syringe, not packing the hole with thickened epoxy and taping over. Maybe that's the difference. :doh:

Well, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. The filler adds strength to the "ring" of protection I think. May not make a difference. I tend to over think these things. I use a syringe as well, with filler added. I put the 'loose' putty inot a ziplock with the corner snipped, and use that to put the putty into the syringe. You can inject a pretty thick mix, but you do want it loose enough to fill in the hole with no voids. I precoat the holes first either with a small acid brush or a pipe cleaner.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:54 am
by wegcagle
I add wood flour filler and use a zip lock bag with the corner snipped and no syringe. I tape the inside (bottom), make the epoxy mix about syrup consistency (maybe alittle thicker, but not peanut butter thick). That has seemed to work perfectly for me. Then I put a piece of tape across outside hole (or top) and press on the tape a bunch to work the epoxy around in the hole. I have occassionally had an air pocket when I pull the tape off. Not a huge deal, because I will then use peanut butter thick epoxy and fill in the pocket.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Your guy's methods make sense. I know the stuff by itself is crazy strong so I'm sure I will be fine. However, I'll go ahead an add some more filler to these last holes for good measure. As for the other 1" to 1.5" of wood that makes up the clamp. I will add filler to that as well. Then everything will be crazy strong. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:53 pm
by dbcrx
You do want to add some sort of filler. Epoxy may be strong stuff, but on it's own it is very brittle. If you're screwing into it, it may chip or crack. Adding a filler will give it more "body" for drilling and screwing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. Then the epoxy I build up on the back half of the 1/2 inch ply I will make sure to add the filler. The only holes I am screwing into of any consequence that have the non-thickened epoxy will be the trim tabs. And even those holes are over-sized more than necessary. Do you think it's worth drilling them back out and refilling them with the thickened stuff.

I'm not positive all additives add strength and are used more for volume - to keep things from sagging. Wouldn't you have to use something more like a blended fiberglass to gain any real noticeable strength?

However, after reading the West System 404 literate, I have some of this in the garage, they do market it as adding strength.

The real question is, "How important is it that I use thickened epoxy?" If it is crazy important, then should I go back and drill the holes back out and add the thicker stuff? I don't mind doing it but I would prefer not to.

Looking at this data it seems like it will be plenty strong without.

TYPICAL CURED PROPERTIES:
Tensile Strength, psi (ASTM D638) ............................................................................ 7,500
Tensile Elongation (ASTM D638)...................................................................................11%
Tensile Modulus, psi(ASTM D638) .......................................................................... 325,000
Flexural Strength, psi(ASTM D790) .......................................................................... 12,500
Flexural Modulus, psi(ASTM D790) .......................................................................... 350,000
Heat Deflection Temperature, ° F .............................................................................. 119
CompressiveStrength, psi(ASTM D695): at yield ........................................................... 12,000
at failure ........................................................................................................ 22,000
Maximum Service Temperature ................................................................................ 160°F

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:59 pm
by dbcrx
Yes, there are all sorts of different additives. Silica is just for thickening (to prevent sag) and so therefore will not really add anything to the epoxy. Then you basically have two sort of filler additives - microspheres/microbaloons and glass microfibers. The spheres/baloons are what you want for just filling holes, the glass microfibers are more for structural fills. So the West systems stuff you have will do you fine.

I'm affraid those numbers don't really mean anything to me. I'm not a scientist, just have a good few years of hands on experience!

I take it your filled holes are going to be glassed over as well? In which case you may be ok as you are, just make sure pilot holes for any screws are drilled to the right size so you don't have to force the screws any more than you have to.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah the numbers don't mean much to me either but they look outstanding!!! :D

Yes, the plan for the transom is to have two layers of biaxel on the outside and then the standard transom clamp on the inside.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good news. I emailed Silvertip Tech support. They called and said it was fine and that the additive did not result in any significant increase of strength. Nice. I can proceed.

Thank you guys for your input on this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:39 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Good news. I emailed Silvertip Tech support. They called and said it was fine and that the additive did not result in any significant increase of strength. Nice. I can proceed.

Thank you guys for your input on this.
Guess my phone reply didn't completely work. :) This is good to know. I read in Wooden Boat a few years ago where they did some failure testing of Bronze Keel bolts embedded in epoxy. I don't believe they used any filler and IIRC the diameter of the hole was twice the diameter of the embedded bolt. The bolt failed every test. I don't remember the depth the bolt was embedded as a ratio to its diameter though. At any rate, sounds like you are good to go. I'm relieved for you. :)

Steven

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

Man I am relieved too. I was cool with drilling and filling again but didn't want to do it if I could avoid it.

That is some interesting test results. I bet my original tape was the problem. I think it was the cheap stuff.  Thanks for all of your help and direction with the build. Much appreciate appreciated!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I finished up the rest of the holes. Everything worked great. I went ahead and added a little thickener. Now onto finishing up the reverse chine and practicing with the fiberglass by covering the poling platform. Then I will soon be ready to cover the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:17 pm
by Uncle D
I guess I thought you had the hull already glassed. Your gonna have fun soon. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Oh man yeah. I wanted to do the holes first so the glass would be over the epoxy and planing out the hardware allowed me to keep working even with the extreme heat.

If you have any pointers please pass them along.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:10 pm
by Uncle D
Get some help and cool weather. Really though I layed out the cloth over the hull dry (port side) so I could fit it. Then rolled one end of the cloth toward the center of the hull then the other end to the center. I rolled on epoxy on half the hull, unrolled the cloth onto the wet epoxy then did the same thing to the other half. After that I rolled epoxy on the layed out cloth. I didn't have help so that allowed me get the cloth in place and layed flat. I did the port side first and let it harden for a day, then did the starboard side the next day so it was still "wet on wet" but so the cloth wouldn't get tacked to the work I had already done. Might have been able to do it all in one day had I had some help. But the way that I did it waiting a day, I was able to sand the cloth at the overlap to knock down the threads. Same with the 6" taped seams, chine, transom and skeg seams. (I think skeg is the right term) I use more epoxy than I should have but I didn't use a squeegee. I used a laminating roller for any trapped air. That's it I think. :doh: Also seems like I only mixed 12 oz. at a time. And later I layed another layer of cloth between all the seams for extra abrasion and to build it up a little so that I'd have less fairing to do.(Got that from Joel's FS 17 build) Mostly it all worked out good. Hope this help a little. Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you Don for the feedback and input.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I just drilled the holes for the two bras cockpit drains. Next up are the holes for the fuel vents.

I'm looking to place the fuel vents just behind bulkhead A and as high under the sheer clamp as I can without bumping into it. This places the vents about 5 feet back from the tip of the bow. I will have a loop in the hose as it goes from the tank to the vent.

Any body see any problems with this?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:31 pm
by Steven
That's exactly what I did with my vent. Mines a little higher off the water than your's will be. :) But that should work good. What style vent did you choose?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

I picked up a couple Attwood vents. They look really good.

I drilled the holes for the vents tonight. I like their positioning on the hull.

Next up are the holes for the bow eye. Per our email discussion about trailers, and the pic of BassMunn's boat you sent me, it looks like I will install the bow eye just below the chine and anticipate the bow roller just above the chine.

Here is BassMunn's pic you showed me. I thought I would toss it up on here. Man he built a fine boat.

Casey

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:13 pm
by tobolamr
Yes he did. I keep teasing Bassmunn that I'm going to send him airfare to come up and help me fair and paint when I get my PH or MG going! His reply has always been "NOT IN WINTER!" :lol:

Casey, you are really taking this boat to the extreme, with all the goodies you're adding. I'm very, very interested in seeing how you progress. Keep up the great work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey, you are really taking this boat to the extreme, with all the goodies you're adding. I'm very, very interested in seeing how you progress. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! I am having a lot of fun building it and can't wait to use it. Thanks for the confirmation with the eye as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:52 pm
by Steven
I'm not crazy about the down angle on his winch line. I would like to see it pulling straight or slightly downward to lock the bow into the roller.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:55 pm
by wegcagle
Steven, if you look really close you'll see that the downward line is actually the back up chain that's welded to the trailer. The line locking the bow to the roller is straight, maybe alittle upward.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, Will has a good eye. A slight upward pull is what you want. Looks perfect to me. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good feedback fellows. Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
All 92 holes on the hull have been drilled and filled from transom to bow.

Now time to sand and fill a few holes in preparation for covering with fiberglass. I also have to finish up the reverse chine, not much to do there, and work on the transducer locations at the mid and rear of the hull. Then I will cover the poling platform as a practice before moving to the hull. I'm hoping to have all this finished up by the week of Oct 10th, that is my target week for covering with fiberglass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:18 pm
by gstanfield
92 Holes! That's quite the accomplishment right there. Congrats on one more step completed :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks George!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I tested two products while laminating the poling platform. I used West System's release fabric on the bottom and Peel Ply on the top. I am going to go ahead and use this material for laminating the hull. It makes one smooth surface. I'm ordering it today.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
14 yards on order from Joel. Now things are falling into place if I can just get what's left on the reverse chine finished up and the hull sanded. And if I am really fortunate I will get to flip it next week too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:11 pm
by cottontop
Are you going to use a combination of both the release material and peel ply or just peel ply? You're getting close now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Just the peel ply. I had order 2 yards of both just to get a feel for how easy they were to work with. They both seemed very similar.

Yeah I can't wait to get this thing flipped.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Another 4 hours clocked in on the boat. The day for fiberglassing the hull is fast approaching. Now all I have to do is finish up what's needed to ready. We are looking to cut out all the glass and to seal the hull that night as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:06 am
by gstanfield
Sweet! Any progress is good progress, she's gonna be one heck of a nice boat when you're done 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:28 am
by Steven
Glassing is a big milestone. Make sure you have a nice radius on that chine so the glass will wrap around smoothly. Are you going to fair the outside before flipping?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:Sweet! Any progress is good progress, she's gonna be one heck of a nice boat when you're done 8)
Thanks George!!! I will try to post up some pics of the progress on the poling platform and the reverse chine maybe tonight. It's been a few weeks since I posted up pics of any progress.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Glassing is a big milestone. Make sure you have a nice radius on that chine so the glass will wrap around smoothly. Are you going to fair the outside before flipping?
I'm planning on taking it down to maybe 3/8th to 1/2 half radius on Wednesday or Thursday, assuming the epoxy goes well tonight. It's a pity to work so hard to get this perfect razor edge from the tip of the bow to the transom only to go back and sand it down.

What do you think is the smallest radius I can get away with and still have the fiberglass cooperate?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:24 am
by Steven
I'd go wih 1/2" You don't wan't to be fighting the glass to get it to stay down. You'll be building it up again regardless, so no need to go too small.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good. I'll sand it down to 1/2. Thank you for the feedback.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:25 pm
by thb
Casey,

If it were my build I would leave the chines with sharp edges. Run the glass cloth on the bottom of the hull first up to the chine edge and then sand it down flush to the chine edge. Then put another piece of cloth up the sides down to the sharp chines and then sand it flush after cured. This way you can keep your sharp chines and still have everything glassed.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
thb - but there isn't one later of glass over the chine at all right now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:30 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:thb - but there isn't one later of glass over the chine at all right now.
Right. You need to round it and glass it according to the lamination schedule. You build it back up to a sharp edge after the glass work is done.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:38 am
by Cracker Larry
You need the strength of the overlapping glass on the chine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Although I definitely appreciate everybody's brainstorming and feedback.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the poling platform. You can see the dark spots. They are black epoxy for mounting the stern light and the screws to hold the platform down on the frame. The two in the center, just above the large hold for the stern light, are for fasteners that hold wires that go to a dome light which will be mounted underneath.

Image

Toe rail detail.

Image

Side profile.

Image

Here is a shot from the bottom. The circle in the middle is for the dome light and the two pieces of wood on either side are where the platform will bolt to the aluminum frame.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:33 am
by chopperman
Wow, Really nice woodwork, Casey :!: I like the dome light idea. Great place for it. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress of the reverse chine. It's almost complete. You can see where the bow eye will go. The black epoxy is filling the holes. You can also see the fuel vent hole on the side too.

Image

Here it is as it approaches the bow.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:Wow, Really nice woodwork, Casey :!: I like the dome light idea. Great place for it. :wink:
Hey thanks!! The dome light placement was my dad's idea. He helped me map out all the electrical and was like, "You need a light here with a red and white bulb option." So that's what I did. He will finally get to see the progress this weekend. He Is coming to TX to help me with the fiberglass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:18 am
by cottontop
Great work? She sure is coming together! You will be glad for the help on the fiberglass. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:58 pm
by thb
It looks like your chines are solid wood and epoxy now. Pretty rigid and strong now. How many layers of tape and glass are going to be on the inside at the chines??? Shouldn't that should provide plenty of strength???

One layer of biaxial over the outside of the chines just seems like overkill to me.

What I was saying is that this overlap of biaxial at the chines could be replaced by one layer on the side butting into the bottom cloth layer at the chine area.

The way I see it is the chines now act like a solid beam based on how they were built. What benefit is obtained by sanding in a radius and putting cloth over the outside of the beam. It is still a beam with no deflection compared to the adjacent bottom and side skins.

Just thinking outloud.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:27 pm
by Steven
With no glass you're relying completely on the strength of the bond between the plys to keep the panel intact at the joint.

This construction method relies on the glass for strength. You can make a lot of changes and modifications but you must respect the lamination schedule and the scantlings. Rounding and then building back up the edge is a trivial activity in the grand scheme of all that goes into a build. It's just a little time to do it right and not worth jeapordizing the boat or the passengers to save a little time.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have been planning on rounding and building back up the whole time and sticking with the original lamination schedule. I am not comfortable with having a joint there. However, I appreciate the different opinions. Makes for good discussion.

My plan as of now is to seal the boat Friday night and then tape the chine and keel and then follow that with the rest of the fiberglass. Everything will then be followed up with peel ply. The peel ply should be here by Friday. I plan to add an extra piece of fiberglass to the transom and the bottom of the hull to reduce fairing.

Thoughts? Input?" Tips?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:53 pm
by tobolamr
I'm sure you've done this, but just for goodness' sake - make sure to check your hull now for hook or rocker - a bulge or a dip in the hull as you come to the transom. Several folks have found these in the water plane area, and filled them in afterwards. Usually, with the comments that "Gee, I shoulda checked for that before glassing the hull." Just an observation from the builds I've watched happen - and a tip I've got in my collection for when I build!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:55 pm
by Steven
I like prewetting the tape. I lay out a long enough piece of plastic, wet out the tape and squeegee out the excess resin. Roll it up and then unroll it onto the joint. I even did this where multiple layers are called for. Just offset the two pieces, wet out and roll them out. It's much quicker than wetting out while stretched out over the hull and I feel I get a better glass to cloth ratio. On the chines, if you wet out on the hull, you end up fighting gravity to keep the resin from running down and off the tape.

Since you'll have help, after wetting out the first piece, one of you can be appying the tape while the other is wetting out the next piece. You'll make quick work of the tape this way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Make sure to check your hull now for hook or rocker - a bulge or a dip in the hull as you come to the transom.
Good call. I have been keeping an eye on this and keeping things nice and square as I built up the chine. We looked the hull over for dips and bulges and eliminated any we found. I plan to double check for squareness and look her over one last time for anything odd.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I like prewetting the tape. I lay out a long enough piece of plastic, wet out the tape and squeegee out the excess resin. Roll it up and then unroll it onto the joint. I even did this where multiple layers are called for. Just offset the two pieces, wet out and roll them out. It's much quicker than wetting out while stretched out over the hull and I feel I get a better glass to cloth ratio. On the chines, if you wet out on the hull, you end up fighting gravity to keep the resin from running down and off the tape.

Since you'll have help, after wetting out the first piece, one of you can be applying the tape while the other is wetting out the next piece. You'll make quick work of the tape this way.
I like it. I will plan for this. Thank you for the feedback!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:15 pm
by tobolamr
If you want to line your wet-out area in plastic, you can go to a bedding store and ask for one of those bags that beds come in. The bags are the same size as the bed x2, and are fairly heavy. We have a lot of customers that use them for all sorts of things, and we do tend to just toss quite a few away. Should be able to get one for free at a bedding store. Hope that helps!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:If you want to line your wet-out area in plastic, you can go to a bedding store and ask for one of those bags that beds come in. The bags are the same size as the bed x2, and are fairly heavy. We have a lot of customers that use them for all sorts of things, and we do tend to just toss quite a few away. Should be able to get one for free at a bedding store. Hope that helps!
Good call. There is one right by my house. I will ask. Thank you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:58 pm
by WindKnot
Casey,
I am still following and will be down in the Dallas area late this month. Lets get together so I can see the progress!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot wrote:Casey,
I am still following and will be down in the Dallas area late this month. Lets get together so I can see the progress!
Just let me know when. Sounds like fun. There is a great pizza joint right down the road we can catch a meal at.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
The boat is ready to sand. I plan to this evening and then plan to seal all the wood tomorrow night in preparation of fiber-glassing Saturday morning.

I fell asleep on the couch the other night. My wife knew I have a list of things to accomplish on the boat before the fiber-glassing stage on Saturday. She woke me up and said, "Come on! This boat ain't gonna build itself!"

I started to doze off last night too and I said, "Have any more encouraging words for me to get out there and work on this boat?" She looked at me and said, "You wanna fish out of a float tube the rest of your life?" What a good wife. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:17 am
by Cracker Larry
That's funny right there :lol: :lol:

I think Summer wants to be boating by summer :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:That's funny right there :lol: :lol:

I think Summer wants to be boating by summer :D
I like the poetry in that. Hopefully I can actually get her out on the boat.

I need to mount a large red and white umbrella on the boat for her to sit under.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
I need to mount a large red and white umbrella on the boat for her to sit under.
Raymond can build you a really cool custom umbrella mount 8) Color optional :lol:

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Very Cool! I may need to do something like this.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
A friend and I sanded about 90% of the hull tonight. I plan to finish the rest of the sanding tomorrow night and maybe even seal the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The peel ply for the hull arrived just in time. Well done Bateau. Now I am all set to fiberglass this hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:59 pm
by tobolamr
*chanting* Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! I look forward to a LOT of new pictures come Monday! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet bro. My D200 is going to burn through a lot of picture. I am thinking about setting it up on a time delay and having it capture the progress.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:08 pm
by tobolamr
If you're going to go THAT far, why not set up a web cam and also broadcast it to your blog? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hey now there is a thought. You know... working online for a living doing web marketing, you would think I would know how to set up a web cam for my blog... but I don't.

Speaking of web marketing, I just finished a HUGE Christmas project called Forgotten Christmas. Here is the website. I wrote all of the copy and created and produced the animation. I wanted to tackle consumerism, and the interference it brings to families during the Christmas season, head on. My hope with this video is to change the minds and hearts of people and to try to get them to look towards the needs of others this Christmas season. Check it out.

Here is the main video on this webpage. Turn up the volume because the soundtrack is killer. I hired a company to do a custom score.

Here is a video of me talking about how it works in churches, how the rubber meets the road so to speak.

Hopefully it will motivate those who have the resources to help others this year. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
So far so good! Please pass along any tips for our fiberglass work for Sunday.

Here is the sanding of the hull. We rounded over the edge of the chine. This is my dad. He is a very hard worker.

Image

This is me just watching. Just Kidding.

Image

Here is the sealed hull. We only used 30 ounces of epoxy. We squeegeed the epoxy on and I pulled off any excess with a 7" roller. The frame was put on a broom handle so it made it super easy to reach the keel without having to hang over the chine. Sometimes this created little bubbles. When it did I went over the surface with one final pass of the spreader and it took the bubbles away.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:07 am
by gstanfield
Looking good. I'm still amazed at all the holes in that transom. Are you sure you can't think of something else to add to this boat? :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:11 am
by gstanfield
Maybe some underwater lights?

Image

Just razzing you brother, this boat is very well made and will be one sharp craft when you're finished 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:Looking good. I'm still amazed at all the holes in that transom. Are you sure you can't think of something else to add to this boat? :lol:
I know - isn't that crazy! There are 86 holes in the transom and 92 in the boat when you add the fuel vents, the side drains and the bow eye.

I KEEP finding dried epoxy on my Nikon. This camera is going to be fully coated by the time this boat it done.
gstanfield wrote:Maybe some underwater lights? Just razzing you brother, this boat is very well made and will be one sharp craft when you're finished 8)
I'm good for it, no worries there. Those are some sweet lights!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:58 am
by gstanfield
I KEEP finding dried epoxy on my Nikon. This camera is going to be fully coated by the time this boat it done.
8O :help: careful with the Nikon :!: I can't wait to see this boat in person one day at a builders meet 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:02 pm
by Steven
No pictures yet? :) Must still be hard at work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:No pictures yet? :) Must still be hard at work.
Oh man you have no idea. We just finished up. We worked late last night. Slept in. Go started around 11 AM this morning and worked non-stop until a few minutes ago. It's 1:30 AM now.

We did manage to get the hull completely glassed today. We did wet on wet from the tape to the peel ply. The boat has one layer on the sides and two layers on the bottom. We didn't have enough for the transom so I'll have to order more glass for it and the rest of the boat. However, we still plan to flip it tomorrow and I'll just finish up the transom when I get some more glass.

Here is a pic from our camera we set up with a time delay. This is us just finishing up the peel ply. Below that are a couple random shots.

Image

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:38 am
by gstanfield
Wow, looking good. Also looks like you shoulda had enough scrap from the bow area to cover the transom too :wink:

When do we get to see the time lapse video?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
I need to try to get them into a video for sure. The overhanging fabric is actually the peel ply. The fiberglass had only a few odds and ends laying here and there that would have made a quilt work of a transom lamination. We managed to save some of the larger pieces for the boxing phase. Looking back I'm glad we didn't have enough glass because the tape and glass that wrap around to the transom could use some attention before I glass. A lot happens back there with the lamination that the ends kinda make a mess.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:25 am
by gstanfield
ahhh, I can see that now that I know what I'm looking at :oops:

You guys have made another milestone though, it's nice to have help :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:49 am
by tech_support
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:
We did manage to get the hull completely glassed today. We did wet on wet from the tape to the peel ply. The boat has one layer on the sides and two layers on the bottom.

All the tape and the biax in one day, wow, that's a lot of work. I would give it a couple days before flipping though. The epoxy, while hard, will not have most of its stiffness for a couple days.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:40 am
by Steven
Looking good. I remember the pain. Though it's nothing compared to the pain of doing the inside. :) A little something to look forward too. It's worth it though, to get it done wet on wet.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:49 am
by tobolamr
WOW that's a lot of work in that amount of time... I look forward to more pics!! And the time-lapse video! And pics of how it looks after the peel ply is removed! And And And!!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
shine wrote:I would give it a couple days before flipping though. The epoxy, while hard, will not have most of its stiffness for a couple days.
Makes sens. So what's my next step? I don't want to do the final hull work at this time and would rather get it flipped sometime soon so we can start on the inside. Once the inside and deck are complete I plan to flip it and finish the final fairing and painting and then flipping it onto the trailer.

So my main question is this. What should I do at this stage before flipping to start on the inside of the hull? And by this stage, I mean since the epoxy is green, should I go ahead and seal it with another coat of epoxy? Should I go ahead and put on the quick fair since the epoxy is green, and then sand fair when we flip it back over? I'm really not up for completely finishing the hull at this time. Thoughts?

Sincerely,

Casey

I hope to post more pics soon! Thanks Steven and Tobolamr.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:09 pm
by Uncle D
That was a lot of work.If it was me I'd do the QF and then the bottom. Didn't you say you were going with the graphite??
Anyway, Looks great Casey.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Graphite is correct, I'm just ready to work on something other than the bottom. I think I will be that much better at sanding and fairing in the future after I have had more experience sanding and fairing any exposed areas of the inside of the hull and cockpit. Then I can apply what I learn to the outside of the hull. I am also leery of having the outside finished when I still have so much work needing to be done on the inside and deck. I fear damaging the hull or getting epoxy on a finished surface, especially with a 4 year old boy running around.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Once the inside and deck are complete I plan to flip it and finish the final fairing and painting and then flipping it onto the trailer.
Casey, if it were me, I would only flip it once. Consider that once your frames and decks go on she won't fit on that jig anymore. And it will be heavy too! If it has a console you can just about forget about flipping it again after completing the inside. Right now she is shored and braced up nice and steady, almost ready for some long board work. No need to postpone it :P I'd go ahead and fair it now, completely finish the bottom (graphite?) and give the sides 1 or 2 coats of primer. Don't finish paint those yet because you still have 6 months to mess them up again, but have them faired and primed so they will be almost ready for finish paint in the future, with the boat right side up, after the inside is complete.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:43 pm
by Uncle D
Cracker Larry wrote:And it will be heavy too!
X2 :wink:

Just don't go too crazy with the QF. I'll pass along what everyone told me...it's the bottom, don't get too anal. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
How do you suspend it to paint it when it's right side up?

The console is designed to unbolt. I agree it would be heavy.

As for the boat stand, it can be made flat again pretty easy.

But the real reason is I'm just ready to work with real power tools again, to construct and build, and not with the sanding. Uhg....

But I'm sure waiting to flip is probably what I will do.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I follow you Larry. I over looked you saying the graphite is done and then you simply have the sides. No suspension of the boat needed. Got ya.

I'll wait.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I have dads help for one more day... Do I fill the weave with thickened epoxy and then seal the one last coat before the QF?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:48 pm
by Steven
A slurry of micro ballons to fill the weave if you have it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have some Weat System filler that may work. It seems to cooperate well. Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Never mind. It looks like what I have will work. I'm all set.

Tks

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:42 am
by chopperman
Casey, Thank you very much for inviting us to your home this evening. Your family is wonderful and the chili was the best :D
Your boat is really coming along nicely :wink: You're going to have a fine fly fishing platform when you're done. Keep up the good work!

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

It was our pleasure. I appreciate all the good feedback and insight on the fairing, sanding and flipping. I'm looking forward to the progress. Tell your friend thanks for joining us too. It was great hanging out.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:57 am
by cottontop
Casey, She sure looks goooood! I'm glad you decided to wait on the "flip". You'll be glad you did too when she's done. It's hard not to get in a hurry after you've put in so much time. Flipping once is the best idea. John 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:35 am
by tech_support
I think everyone else has said it, but I would only flip it once. Flipping twice just ads to the total amount of work, its just wasted time IMHO. If it were my boat, I would fair it all the way on the bottom (maybe even paint the very bottom), and fair and prime up to the sheer. I would not paint the sides until the end.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yep. That's what I'll do. I'll finish the bottom all the way to the chine. Where I plan to diverge a little, after discussing it with Chipperman last night here at the house, is I will wait to fair the sides after I finish the deck and cockpit. The reason is inevitably I will damage even the primer working ok the rest of the boat. Another reason is their is some wiggle on the side of the boat near the sheer that will come out with the sheer clamp, then I won't have to fight that wiggle while fairing because the 1x2 will pull it out. The sides are very fair as it is since I planed the splices and then used the peel ply.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Now that I have this hull covered, I plan to fill the weave with a filler slurry mix. However, I have a question about the chine. We of course riunded it over for the fiberglass to lay over it. When I build it back up, what is my goal with the roundover? 1/4 inch? 3/8ths? Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:20 am
by tech_support
the more sharp the better.

Build up the chine with a more hard filler like wood flour/silica/milled fibers. A chine with heavy build up of micro balloons (fairing) will get dented pretty easily

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok I have some 404 West System that should do the trick then. Gracias!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a photo series of our lamination. To make it easy I simply say left and right to identity the sides of the boat from the perspective of the photo.

Step 1. We glassed the bottom from the right gutter of the reverse chine over the keel and halfway to the other side of the reverse chine on the left. The gutter of the chine on the right completely hide the seam. We did this after epoxying the keel tape and taping the left side into place. We waited to tape the right so we would not bump it while we walked around the boat. However, by this time we had just finished taping the transom as well.

Image

Step 2. We glassed from this seam over to the sheerline on the left. The glass went over the chine and down the side of the boat. This resulted in only one seam to hide on this side of the boat.

Image

Step 3. Then we glassed from the gutter on the left side of the boat, across the keel and halfway to the reverse chine on the right.

Image

Step 4. We then glassed from this seam over the chine on the far right and down to the sheerline. This resulted in two layers on the bottom and one on the sides.

Image

Step 5. We added peel ply to the left side of the boat and I really took my time working the glass underneath smooth. The peel ply was 60 inches wide so it was wide enough to go from the keel all the way to the sheerline. It took a total of 14 yards.

Image

Step 6. We added the peel ply to the right side and did the same. This time I was so tired I did not smooth it out as much and there was a little bit more weave exposed on this side of the boat after it cured. But boy once it cured, there was little to no seam where the tape goes down the keel or the chines or where the sheets of glass come together on the bottom of the hull. Everything appeared to be a success.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:57 pm
by Steven
Looking good. Now it's Sand, Sand, Sand!!!! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yep it's already begun. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:07 am
by SmokyMountain
Looks great Casey!! Like Steve said " sand, sand, sand, sand..." Did I ever tell you I like to sand :doh: 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks!

I suppose sanding ain't that bad. That's where I'm headed now.

Pics of the cured fiberglass.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are pics of the cured fiberglass.

The peel ply worked really well. These pics are before I started sanding down any small high spots. There were some areas that had the weave show through. You can tell from the pics it's noticeably different from the others.

Image

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Image

Here is the sealed hull.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
This was hard to photograph at night. However, I like how you can see the boat's lines.

Image

Sanding the high spots.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a few pics of the sanding of the hull before the Quick Fare goes down. I wanted to hit any high spots first. Seems to be working well. I also found that a small hand plane really does the trick. Much faster than sanding. You can see in the pic where I have knocked the top off of three high spots. I use the big fat eraser and the small wire brush to pull particles out of the sand paper.

The pic at the bottom is my dad touching up where a little bit of the seam of the peel ply stuck to the hull. Unfortunately he went back home on Tuesday so things have slowed back down. He taught me my carpentry skills. He has moved on from carpentry to cars. However, his latest car he is overhauling has a wood frame so he will get to use both his carpentry skills as well as his mechanic skills. It's a 32 Franklin.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:10 am
by gstanfield
Looking good pard, very sharp lines :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks George!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:11 am
by cottontop
Isn't it hard to get it so "shiny" then have to make it dull again? When I built mine, a neighbor came over and asked me if I really knew what i was doing. She couldn't believe someone would work so hard to get something so shiny---then make it dull. When I got done she understood. Keep up the good work. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good observation. A little disheartening. But I suppose in the end it will be smooth and nice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:38 am
by cali123
[quoteI like how you can see the boat's lines.][/quote] She sure has a pretty bottom :!: 8) :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
:lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:15 pm
by Uncle D
Nice senor, every time I'd sand mine, it seemed the hull would grow. :roll:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Then it won't fit in my garage!

You know what? I actually found the filing of the weave with thickned epoxy and a spatula to be the most grueling part so far.

Next up:

I found a couple of bubbles on the keel to cut and fill and then I plan to build back up the sharp edge of the chime and the keel with thickened epoxy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I should not have gone to the wood store. I went in to buy some cabinet scrapers to aid in the fairing and came out with a Jessem Master R Slide. However, the new slide was only $225, marked down from $600. I couldn't pass that up!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:32 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:I should not have gone to the wood store. I went in to buy some cabinet scrapers to aid in the fairing and came out with a Jessem Master R Slide. However, the new slide was only $225, marked down from $600. I couldn't pass that up!

Woodcrafters? Any more left?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
I had to google the dang thing just to see what yall were talking about. That looks really cool, I could ruin some wood at a faster rate with something like that. It wouldn't look right connected to my $200 table saw though :lol: And the $200 saw also included a sliding miter, but wait, and a router table! None of which are very accurate but neither am I. God bless epoxy :D Probably a good thing there isn't a Woodcrafters in Savannah, I have a hard enough time going to Lowes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Woodcrafters? Any more left?
Yep. You might call out there. I only saw the one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:I could ruin some wood at a faster rate with something like that.
Nothing like a fine saw to ruin an even finer piece of wood.

You know, I'm convinced a guy could build one of these boats with just a jig saw, an orbital sander and a hand drill.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I started building back up the round over on the reverse chine. I made one pass down one side. It looks like two passes will be what's needed to get it back to a 90. I plan to then sand it fair and use this edge as what I will fare to for the reverse chine... If that makes any sense.

I went to the state fair last Tuesday. While I was there I picked up some radiant barrier insulation for the garage door. I started installing it tonight. It looks like it's really going to help. My garage faces south and takes a beating from the sun. It's sometimes like a cooker in there and gets much hotter than outside.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More chine round over work today and I insulated my garage door with radiant barrier for woeking in the dead of winter. I can already feel the difference.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:56 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:More chine round over work today and I insulated my garage door with radiant barrier for woeking in the dead of winter. I can already feel the difference.
When it gets cold, don't use Kerosene heat. It produces a film that can cause bonding issues.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I remember reading that. I have two electric heaters that I used last winter. I may contact my business partner at my old company and see if he has any infrared heaters lying around that he didn't install into backyard living spaces. Maybe he will make me a deal on one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:40 pm
by gstanfield
...in the dead of winter...
I didn't think Texas had a dead of winter :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well nothing like WY. But last Feb we had some days dip into the teens and that makes for some chilly boat building. Dec, Jan and Feb get cold enough to be uncomfortable. We also had an ice storm shut down DFW and Love Field last March as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:37 am
by gstanfield
Yeah, I know it gets chilli down there, I was just razing you pard :lol: :P :wink:

You gotta have it warm enough for epoxy to set 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Oh I know. And with this slow hardener thongs get extrrrrra slow.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:37 am
by wegcagle
And with this slow hardiner thongs get extrrrrra slow
You can't put the word "hardener" and "thongs" in the same sentence without a little chuckle :lol: Guess I'm still a 15yo boy at heart.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
iPhone autocorrect is hysterical!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Has anyone used graphite for the inside of the hatches and bilge? I figure if it's so strong and cheap, why not use it for my last coat.

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:41 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Has anyone used graphite for the inside of the hatches and bilge? I figure if it's so strong and cheap, why not use it for my last coat.

Thoughts?
I considered it, but it will make things awful dark. The tint comes out really nice and is no more or less work than using graphite.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah I was wondering about how dark it would be. I may use it for the anchor locker up at the front and maybe the bilge. The live-wells and other areas I may go the gray route. It's probably a minor detail either way.

So what are the tricks to getting a fine finish with epoxy mixed with graphite? Tips on making it smooth? Eliminating bubbles? Etc...

Thanks in advance.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:18 pm
by Steven
Use a flour sifter and sift the graphite 2-3 times. I used a mixing paddle on the drill. It seemed to make a good consistency mix. I have no problems with clumping. I did have problems with dust, and roller particles. Use epoxy compatible rollers. I buy the ones here now. I even built a plastic room but it didn't stop the dust. Painting is going to be a blast. :help: The mixer I use does not whip the mix. I'll try to find a picture and post it.


Edit:

Found it. Got it from Home Depot

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I wonder if running my air filter for 10 hours or so the night before will do the trick with the dust. I can make a plastic booth around the boat and set my Jet filter in it. It filters down some pretty small stuff. Its the 1000 CFM Model

Have you considered adding something to thin the epoxy? I was reading on the Silvertip site that you can add a chemical to thin it. However, I don't remember the exact chemical. I would have to look it back up again. I was also wondering if heating the epoxy up a little with a heat gun would bring all the bubbles to the surface. We use to do this at the fly shop after we would wrap guides on a fly rod. The bubbles would come right out.

Fiberglassing on the inside of my hull.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Since the lamination schedule does not call for fiberglass to go all the way up to the sheer on the inside of the hull, I think I want to run the biaxial from the joint of the cockpit all the way up to the sheer. It calls for tape, but to take the glass up from the top of the tape is only another 8 inches. This may reduce some of my fairing on the inside as well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:19 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:I wonder if running my air filter for 10 hours or so the night before will do the trick with the dust. I can make a plastic booth around the boat and set my Jet filter in it. It filters down some pretty small stuff. Its the 1000 CFM Model

Have you considered adding something to thin the epoxy? I was reading on the Silvertip site that you can add a chemical to thin it. However, I don't remember the exact chemical. I would have to look it back up again. I was also wondering if heating the epoxy up a little with a heat gun would bring all the bubbles to the surface. We use to do this at the fly shop after we would wrap guides on a fly rod. The bubbles would come right out.

The filter will help. You'd really want it to intake in the tent and exhaust out side of it if possible. I'm going to make a plastic paint boot with some Hepa house filters and a fan or two when the time comes.

I never had any problems with air bubbles, so I don't think it's a concern. You don't want to heat it and speed the reaction. You want it to stay as fluid as posible for as long as possible to flow out and level well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:The filter will help. You'd really want it to intake in the tent and exhaust out side of it if possible. I'm going to make a plastic paint boot with some Hepa house filters and a fan or two when the time comes.
For the filter sitting in the booth, I'm referring only to the epoxy coat. As for the intake and exhaust for the painting, you bet. Those chemicals are nasty nasty nasty. My HVLP spraying on furniture in the past was in a paint booth with an intake and an exhaust. For a cheap set up, we want to make sure we are pushing air rather than pulling air. If your pulling air it will require a specific type of sparkles motor. If your pushing air, then I suppose the fumes in theory never reach the motor.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:56 am
by Uncle D
Casey, I didn't do this but others have said to mix in the graphite slowly. a little at a time.

I waited to add the hardener till after mixing. Never was an issue. I did have to strain for small clumps but like I said, I didn't mix it in slowly. Overall mine came out good. I think I'll graphite the anchor locker. Maybe the bilge too. I do have a lot of green tint to use too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Casey, I didn't do this but others have said to mix in the graphite slowly. a little at a time.

I waited to add the hardener till after mixing. Never was an issue. I did have to strain for small clumps but like I said, I didn't mix it in slowly. Overall mine came out good. I think I'll graphite the anchor locker. Maybe the bilge too. I do have a lot of green tint to use too.
Mixing the graphite before the hardener goes in, now there is an idea. Good input. I'm curious to know what you think of the anchor locker or the bilge being done with the graphite when/if you choose to do it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Question. Are you guys taking your fiberglass all the way up to the sheerline on the inside of the hull?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:25 am
by Steven
I taped the sole to side joint with 12oz. biax then covered the insides with 6 oz cloth. I have a lot more side than you do, but you're adding a lot of weight with accessories so you might try to shave weight wherever you can. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds like a plan. I think I will do the same then and go with 6 oz.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:31 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:I'm curious to know what you think of the anchor locker or the bilge being done with the graphite when/if you choose to do it.
Mostly the anchor locker, just cause it's probably gonna bang around at times.
flyfishingmonk wrote:Are you guys taking your fiberglass all the way up to the sheerline on the inside of the hull?
I will, if for nothing more than for any abrasion. I don't think I want a 1 foot gunnel on mine. I'm thinking 4 or 6 inches. I'll want more walk around room inside the cockpit. Besides, I'd fall off the boat if I stood up there. :oops:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:I don't think I want a 1 foot gunnel on mine. I'm thinking 4 or 6 inches. I'll want more walk around room inside the cockpit. Besides, I'd fall off the boat if I stood up there. :oops:
I am leaning toward the 1 foot, maybe even a little larger. In addition to walking around, I like the convenience of it being a seat all the way around the cockpit. Makes it easy to lean over when I am releasing fish too. The larger surface is a little more comfortable on my stomach when I stretch over the water to pull out a hook.This helps to keep me from having to pull the fish up and out of the water.

In my facebook album titled "Fly Fishing" you will see a picture of me releasing a nice tarpon from a panga. The larger gunwale of the flats boat would be a little more comfortable than the panga.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I ordered 12oz Biaxial for the inside of the hull and 6oz woven for the sides above the Biaxial. I also ordered graphite, pigment and peel ply. All from Bateau.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So where the chine meets the transom, am I correct to grind down the really tall spot where the tape from the chine goes over the tape from the transom. For example, there are the two strips of tapes covering the transom to the chine, and then one tape for the chine, and then one layer of fiberglass over all of this, making it 4 layers high. Things get pretty tall there in that one 4" x 4" spot. I don't want to grind it down if I'm not suppose too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, don't grind them off, those layers are there for strength. No need to put them there just to grind off :D Feather the edges of each layer with your sander and 80 grit, then fair it all to the adjacent surfaces.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Considering all the other transitions have 3 layers except those two corners, which have four, I thought I would ask.

Thanks for getting back with me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:24 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Considering all the other transitions have 3 layers except those two corners, which have four, I thought I would ask.

Thanks for getting back with me.

There is extra overlap there so grinding it down some is fine. I staggered my overlaps to end up with 3 layers at the corner junctions.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I suppose I should have staggered. Good trick.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
I almost have the sharp edge of the reverse chine built back up on both sides. I plan to use this edge as my guide for fairing both the side and the bottom of the hull. Soon I plan to start the fairing process.

How sharp do you guys take the keel near the tip of the bow? I kind of like the round over look and believe it will take more abuse with a little larger round over than with a sharp edge like the chine. Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:49 am
by Cracker Larry
I kind of like the round over look and believe it will take more abuse with a little larger round over than with a sharp edge like the chine. Thoughts?
I agree.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent. Thank you. I'll go with that then.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:56 am
by Steven
I did a nice round radius. I'm going to use a keel guard as well. All our lakes have rocky shores. My GV11 has taken a beating.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been looking at those keel guards I like the looks of those. I think I will paint the sides of my hull blue, then white under the chine and the bottom black with graphite. I may run white all the way back from under the chine. Even if it does look ugly with white on the black. Or maybe I will run white back from the underside of the chine to the graphite and black from there back. hmmmm. I over think the aesthetics.

What color are you ordering?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:57 am
by Steven
I haven't settled on a color scheme. I 'm thinking of painting the spray rail and small area on the bottom at the bow that wasn't coated with graphite a contrasting color to the rest of the Hull. I figure the spray rail is most likely to get damaged, so breaking the color there will make for easy repair without having to repaint the hull sides. I'm going to try to pick a scheme that has the lower paint the same or very similar to the keel guard color so it blends in.

Side note: I'm drilling out the console and had two blow outs on the back side. I was driling slowly and easily I thought. A backer board would have helped, but on the next build, I'll add a layer of cloth to the backside of any panels I'll be drilling through to prevent this from happening again. Not a big deal to fix, but just added work. A piece of cloth would have taken mere minutes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm planning for blue on the sides, breaking to white just under the chine, and then graphite just below the water line. So this will lead me with a funny looking keel guard. Maybe I will run two pieces of keel guard to make the transition... maybe not. Who knows.

I am about 95% built back up with the sharp edge for the reverse chine. I hope to be at the fairing stage soon.
Steven wrote:Side note: ...on the next build, I'll add a layer of cloth to the backside of any panels I'll be drilling through to prevent this [tear out] from happening again. Not a big deal to fix, but just added work. A piece of cloth would have taken mere minutes.
Good call. I will keep this in mind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:01 am
by Uncle D
I still haven't settled on colors either. I know it will be green or blue. Julie said paint it the Texan's colors. That would mean adding red to the mix. On the inside decks and sole, I'm thinking of a cream or light kiwi-grip and cockpit hull sides the same as the outside primary color. Maybe... :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm going with kiwi grip, or something similar, as well for the deck, sole, and the poling platform. That stuff looks pretty nice. I plan to have a toe rail on the front deck to try to keep the fly line from blowing off. I will keep the toe rail smooth so it's not abrasive against the fly line. Same for the outer and inner edge of the gunnel, outer edge of the back deck, and the toe rail on the poling platform.

More articles on my boat building blog.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Anglers and Builders,

I spent a few hours writing a few more articles for my blog. I hope some of you find them helpful.

Casey

Boat Building Tools - You Can Never Have To Many

Bevel Edge Chisels - A Must Have For Any Boat Builder

Metal Brush - Handy for Cleaning Fillets


I also did a quick bio called "The Monk."

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:55 am
by Steven
I'm still deciding on Kiwigrip or a polyurethane type non skid. The Kiwi Grip is really easy to apply and doesn't require any primer. But it is hard/inflexible under foot and I have difficulty cleaning it. It might go on with a less agressive texture if it is thinned a bit so the peaks slump down some. I have mixed feelings about it having used it on the GV11. Originally, all the non skid was non-skid added to paint. I like the look and feel of that, but making it all look consistent can be a challenge for me. I had to do some minor repair in front of the middle seat, so I used Kiwi Grip over that. It covers so well, very little fairing is required. The two cleaning issues are removing black scuff marks, and a stain in an area where water sits after a rain. I tried a bleach solution without much success. I think it's a good product and I'm going to order a quart and do some more testing. If I can get a fiinsh that is not too rough, I will consider using it. On the decks, it can't be so rough you can't sit on them.

I checked with the manufacturer of Durabak, and it can go on without primer. Have to abrade with 32 grit. But they recommend a primer that is compatable with moisure cure polyurethane. I'm sure the S2 high build will work. But that adds expense and work.

My father had a similar material applied in the cockpit of his TwinVee to cover gel coat cracking. They didn't get it mixed right. The manufactured applied this under warranty. It is a polyurethane coating and it is painted. It's soft underfoot and provides good footing. I'm going to see if he can find out what brand it is. It's held up well for a lot of years.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:57 am
by Steven
Your metal brush link goes to the chisel page. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:31 am
by Mad Dog
The texture of Kiwi Grip can be adjusted in the application steps without sanding. As I recall, working KG as it begins to set will create a higher more aggressive texture. The loopy-goopy roller lifts the product which then stands proud because it is stiffer. I practiced on scrap wood to get the softer "feel". I worked smallish areas as quickly as possible which let the texture settle a bit. I have good traction and no discomfort on bare feel.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Your metal brush link goes to the chisel page. :)
Thanks for catching that. Fixed it. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mad Dog wrote:The texture of Kiwi Grip can be adjusted in the application steps without sanding. As I recall, working KG as it begins to set will create a higher more aggressive texture. The loopy-goopy roller lifts the product which then stands proud because it is stiffer. I practiced on scrap wood to get the softer "feel". I worked smallish areas as quickly as possible which let the texture settle a bit. I have good traction and no discomfort on bare feel.

MD :wink:
Is the finish consistent?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:01 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:Is the finish consistent?
Here are some pics of the finished product.

Image

Image

If you check out Shine's FS17 build he will better pics
Image

and I think there is a tutorial. I am very satisfied with the KG.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Looks good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:33 pm
by Steven
I think my problem was it was hot when I applied it. By the time I rolled it out, following the tutorial instructions, it had begun to tighten up and I ended up with sharp peaks. Thining would have helped. Applying when it's cooler would as well. I"m gonna order a couple quarts next week for the GV11. I need to clean it up to sell it. Some minor repairs, a nice non skid and some fresh paint should move it down the road. It does look great applied and consistency is not an issue.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote: I"m gonna order a couple quarts next week for the GV11.
How difficult is it to sell a home built boat?

I guess you will find out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
First off, it's not "a home built boat", it's a "custom built boat" with composite construction, epoxy resin, dah, da, da. It's all in the marketing :wink: I've never had a problem selling one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:17 pm
by Steven
CL beat me to it. Everyone who sees it doesn't believe it's wood. They think it's aluminum for some reason when I tell them I built it. A Garvey is so uncommon down here, I get questions at gas staations and at the ramp.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
Garveys, especially flat bottom Garveys, have always been very popular in this area and along the east coast. They are versatile boats that do a lot of things well. I could sell GF16s faster than I could build them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I think it would be fun to build a kayak and sell it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:48 pm
by gstanfield
Drift boats are pretty good sellers around here. I started one last year and sold it before I had it halfway finished. A guy at work wanted to build one and I sold my plans, frames and strongback to him as a "kit" and let him finish it. I'm thinking about building one while I wait for the house to sell, might sell a driftboat and have some extra Christmas money...hmmm

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I would really like to build a drift boat. Those are so pretty. A jon boat would be fun too. And a panga. And while I'm at it an LB26. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:32 pm
by Steven
It never ends. I've had GF16 plans for years. Thinking it will be the next build. A boat the kids can take to the lake.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:02 pm
by gstanfield
No sir, it does not end. That's why I stole my signature line from a guy on another "wooden boat" forum :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:49 am
by Uncle D
:?: :?: :?: Nothing in Nov. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:17 am
by gstanfield
Novemeber is still new, maybe he's ben so busy working on the boat that he hasn't had time to post :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I've been busy for sure. Work has kept me going. I'm in Oklahoma this week, and Colorado next week, meeting with people to tell them about our mission in Asia. I'm preaching in a church on Sunday so I've been preparing for that. This will be the first time I've ever preached before to a whole congregation. 8O But I think it will be ok because the message is coming along nicely. I spoke to a small group last night and they loved it! One guy said he could have listened for two more hours. Another thing that stole some time is I keep writing future articles for my blog. I really enjoy the writing.

As for the boat. I've built up the reverse chine. The other day my buddy and I scraped off all of the little annoying high spots on the hull with furniture scrapers, and I ground off and sanded the high spots on the transom in preparation for the fiberglass. We didn't have enough fiberglass to cover the transom when we covered the hull, and the extra glass came in last week. As soon as I finish the transom glass, I will build up the round over on the transom and rough sand the hull. Then I'll be coating her with Quick Fair.

If you guys have any fairing suggestions or tips please unload them now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:41 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
If you guys have any fairing suggestions or tips please unload them now.

Liberal application of QuickFair. Here's what I seem to run into. I apply a thin layer of quickfair. Sand. Repeat. The surrounding area gets sanded each time and you can cut through the epoxy to the glass if you're not careful. On future builds, I will use a thicker layer of quickfair, trying to get enough on to do the job once, with maybe a little spot work after.

I'm about to apply a couple coats of epoxy to my CC and leaningpost/livewell, becuase I'll cut into the glass with the final fairing if I don't build up some. A bit of a waste of epoxy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
How thick do you suggest?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:50 pm
by Uncle D
I'm not even going there on QF. I'll trade laying up glass any day over QF. 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:36 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:How thick do you suggest?
That's the skill.. It's wonderfull stuff, but applying it is part art. Like drywall mudd. Best I can tell you is get it thick enough to longboard down. It shrinks some when curing, so if you do a nice skim coat it will likely be a little low.

Next boat, I'm buying 5 gallons and applying it like crazy. I don't mind the sanding. It sands easy and if I sand off half of what I apply, oh well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
To me the boat currently looks very fair in many places, especially the sides. I will do as you say, starting with a thick coat, and see how it goes from there.

Thank you for your input.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Everybody does it differently, but I start with a thin mixture (slurry) of blended filler and epoxy just to fill the weave. This is real thin, put on with a plastic spreader. Give it a light sanding with 80 grit and fill it again mixing a little thicker slurry.. Another light sanding and I switch to Quick Fair. A thin coat with the spreader, then longboard. Another thin coat with the spreader, then longboard again. Should be about done and ready for high build primer. My entire OD18 took one 1 1/2 qt. kit of QF, and it's pretty fair :wink: It depends a lot on the quality of the FG job. My first boat required a lot more fairing than my last one did.

Next boat, I'm buying 5 gallons and applying it like crazy.
8O 8O What are you building, a TW28 :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:29 pm
by tobolamr
Nah, Larry, I think I've gotten my first hint that someone wants to build my PH22 for me! :D

You know how it goes - different strokes for different folks! I can't wait to build and actually get this experience. :roll:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:01 pm
by Steven
hahah. 5 gallons might have been a bit of an exageration. And I would have built the PH22 if my garage was 4' longer. :)


He's already filled the weave. And I did mine as you say. The areas that give me a pain are when having to fair the transition of a couple layers of 12 oz. And on the console and Leaningpost/Livewell. But I've gotten much better. I'm on my 2nd 1 1/2 quart order, I think. Maybe 3rd. Hard to remember.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven is correct. I have already filled the weave. I did two coats using a West System spreader and epoxy mixed with filler.
Cracker Larry wrote:It depends a lot on the quality of the FG job. My first boat required a lot more fairing than my last one did.
As for the fiberglass job, I think I did ok because I used peel ply over the hull and laid down all the tape and glass wet on wet. There seems to be very little transition from one piece over the next. Hopefully this will reduce the work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I was in OKC the night of the earthquake. Pretty amazing stuff. It gave a good shake and man was the sound loud.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Another interesting day in Oklahoma. Tornado Warning, Earthquake, Severe Storm and Flash Flooding all in one day. Gotta love visiting this state.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:53 pm
by Mad Dog
You need to get back to Texas. I don't think your karma is good for OKC. :D :P

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
For real. I show up and the whole state starts to fall apart.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:24 pm
by Steven
Just don't bring it back with you. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Finally home from a long business trip. I did get a little fishing in. I'll try to post some pics in the next day or so. I hope to get back to the build this week.

Fishing in Colorado

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of last weeks trip. The temps fluctuated between 30 and 35 degrees. We had the best luck at night. There were many more fish than these pics here. These were the best of the pictures and the fish. None of these fish were snagged. We used mysis shrimp patterns and small midge patterns. My buddy sat on his net and broke it. I'm gonna fix it with a little fiberglass and glue. Doug, the guy in the middle of the last pic, caught the biggest fish. I had the best numbers and Jeff's fish were consistently large. Other than a blown transmission and a blown fuel line in the Excursion. It was a good trip. I got 187,000 out of that transmission. I'm shooting for 300,000 out of this new one. I have a new maintenance trick schedule I'm gonna try out. :D

Image
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:54 am
by MarkOrge
Wow, makes me wish I was back in BC !

That Dog is Georgeous, is that your's ?

Sorry if this is a highjack - 4 or 5 weight on the dry ?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Not a highjack at all. 5 wt with nymph. Sometimes a dropper. All below indicators, split shot above the knot. 6X. Sometimes 7X. 10 to 12 foot leaders. However, the picture of the double, both fish were taken on streamers. There was some dry fly action but the fish seemed more interested in subsurface. The drys they were sipping were midges, tiny little buggers too.

As for the dog, that was my buddy's in Colorado. He was taking the picture of the three of us. It was a fine dog.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:22 am
by MarkOrge
Most don't know 75% of a trout's diet is sub surface...... aren't those chromer's pretty?

I was in Calgary Alberta for about 14 years, give me a call sometime and we can chat about the Bow River.

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Most don't know 75% of a trout's diet is sub surface...... aren't those chromer's pretty?

I was in Calgary Alberta for about 14 years, give me a call sometime and we can chat about the Bow River.

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing !!
Agreed. Considering the life cycle of an insect I would push that upwards to 90+.

I would like to learn about this bow river. I hope by bow you mean rainbow and by rainbow you mean big and by big you mean pig because I love me some fat bacon hooked on the end of my fly line. If not an overweight bow then a brown, cut, cutbow, dolly, char, salmon or steelhead will also be juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine. :D (I assume it has to do with bow and arrow or some kind of bend.)

What's a chromer?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am hoping to get back to my build in the next few days. It's been busy around the Short house.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:19 am
by chopperman
flyfishingmonk wrote:I am hoping to get back to my build in the next few days. It's been busy around the Short house.
Looking forword to seeing your progress :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Last night I got some work done preparing the transom for two layers of glass. I found some air pockets under some of the weave where the glass was stacked 3 or 4 layers high. A Dremel tool takes these out easy. Kinda like drilling out a cavity.

Enjoy the time with your families.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Off topic... but are there any diesel engine owners out there?

I started a new thread in anything else.

Diesel Engine Owners

Bandsaw Tires

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I blew a bandsaw tire the other night. I went to Rockler today and picked up some new urethane tiers. They went on in about 30 mins with the help of one small furniture clamp. I took off both wheels. Heated the tires in water. Stretched the tires over the wheels. Easy fix. Now my bandsaw is up and running again.

I cut out the glass for the transom. I just need to cut a little peel ply and then epoxy it on. Then I'll proceed with the fairing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:21 pm
by MarkOrge
Hi Casey, I am just getting cuaght on threads.... yes huge rainbows in the Bow River. My best friend who is now on the coast used to guide there so I got lots of free 'help'. The stretch of the Bow downstream of Calgary, but above the Carsland Weir is, per cubic meter of water, pound for pound, the second highest trout producing stream in North America. Honestly I don't recall which is #1, I think in Montana...

My personal best is a 12 lb brown caught on a zonker. A 12 ld brown feels like a 15 lb rainbow, no kidding. As soon as the basement is finished I'll be adding my favourite/largest fish to the other dead things on the wall (in graphite of course)

The caddis hatchs in the summer are insane, you need a bug hat but it's worth it as the fish just gorge themselves. Grasshopper are fun in August against the undercut banks. The neat thing about them is you aren't tossing a #18 midge gently, you can just flop them down (in the water of course LOL)

I actually want to try smallmouth bass on top water fly this summer - from a PH18 of course!

I almost have the deck of mine done, I'll post the pix as soon as it is finished. Any pictures in the mean time just look messy and won't make a lot of sense... can't wait to get the stations cut and inplace for the hull foam !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Oh man I would love to fish that sometime with you. That would be awesome!!!

Yeah we all look forward to seeing your progress.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I fiberglassed the transom last night. Two layers of glass followed by peel ply. It worked out well.

Transom Glass

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Pics of the transom glass with peel ply.

Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:25 am
by Steven
Looking good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:36 pm
by timmydafool
Looks awesome!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks! The reason for the cut not being straight is it lays adjacent to a layer of glass that wraps around the bottom. I need to fill a couple bubbles but all in all, after I pulled back some of the peel ply, it looks very smooth.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:48 pm
by chopperman
flyfishingmonk wrote:Thanks! The reason for the cut not being straight is it lays adjacent to a layer of glass that wraps around the bottom. I need to fill a couple bubbles but all in all, after I pulled back some of the peel ply, it looks very smooth.
Of course it's smooth, Monk 8) You've got a real talent for nice glass work :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the compliment! It's pretty fun to work with.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
Today I sanded and prepped the transom for a layer of fairing epoxy. Before I apply the fairing epoxy I need to build up the edges on the bottom and sides of the transom where the round over is. I plan to do this in the next couple of evenings... hopefully.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Last night I filled the weave, very little to fill because of the peel ply, and started building up the edges.

I picked up 8 two inch washers for the jack plate and some more 404 Adhesive Filler from West Systems.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
I started building up the edge of the transom with thickened epoxy. It's going well. I have found two or three light passes are easier to work with, allowing 12 or so hours of cure between each pass. It seems easier to build up a sharp edge because your not fighting the sag.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
I epoxied the second pass to build up the edge of the transom. One more light pass and I should be good to go.

I also cleaned out the two wood plugs for the fish finders. Now all I am left with is the two layers of biaxial fiberglass and whatever fairing epoxy and graphite epoxy to shoot through.

My wood plug idea worked out well. What I had done was I cut out a 2.5 inch plug. However, I didnt cut it out all the way. I left 1/4 inch of wood at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock positions to keep the plug in place. I then put tape over the plug so the cloth over the hull would not adhere. This was before I covered the hull. From the underside I used a dremil tool to knock out the tabs and a chisel to dig out the plug. Worked like a champ.

Now my fish finder will only have to shoot through maybe 1/8 th of material.

Fish Finder

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is how I removed the plywood for the transducer.

Before glassing the hull, I cut out a circle but left 4 small tabs to hold it in place. I then had my dad squeeze packing tape down into the groove, i was under the hull pulling the tape tight, until we covered the cut out. We then glassed the hull.

After it cured, I cut out the four tabs with a dremel tool and then chewed out the wood with a chisel. It worked great. Here are the pics.

Image

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:47 am
by chopperman
Very Impressive, Casey. You're ingenuity never ceases to amaze me 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:Very Impressive, Casey. You're ingenuity never ceases to amaze me 8)
Thanks for the compliment!!! Hopefully some of the ideas will help other builders. :)

Last night I cut out a few bubbles on the keel and plan to fill them tonight and cover some of the larger bubbles with a little bit of fiberglass. After I build up the edge of the keel and sand it back down I plan to cut out my skeg and strakes, shape them, and proceed with the fairing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm glad you posted that Casey :D It reminds me that I need to cut that same hole in my FS18 before I glass it. I've finished the taping, so glass is next, but you reminded me that the transducer hole is actually next 8)

I'll cut the hole, wrap the plug in plastic, put it back in place and hold it in place with tape until the outside is glassed. Then it will be simple to remove it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:I'm glad you posted that Casey :D It reminds me that I need to cut that same hole in my FS18 before I glass it.
I'm glad it jogged your memory.
Cracker Larry wrote:I'll cut the hole, wrap the plug in plastic, put it back in place and hold it in place with tape until the outside is glassed. Then it will be simple to remove it.
I though about doing it that way but was concerned the curvature of the wood may make a rise in the glass as it tries to flatten back out. That's why I chose to go with the tabs, it maintained the curvature. However, this was just my speculation. It may not be a big deal a all. What I would change was I would make my tabs only 1/8 inch and not 1/4 inch. Just a thought.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:10 pm
by Cracker Larry
My bottom is flat at that location, so curvature won't be an issue for me. I won't use tabs, just some Gorilla tape.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:My bottom is flat at that location, so curvature won't be an issue for me. I won't use tabs, just some Gorilla tape.
You gotta love the Gorilla Tape!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
It is some SERIOUS tape 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I haven't used any Gorilla products yet. I need to try some of them out.

I would suggest gluing a knob on the inside of the cut out to assist in pulling it out. The glue that squeezed down into the groove between the wood and the tape really secured the plug into place. A knob of wood glued to the plug would have made it much easier to remove. The tighter you can make the fit of the plug, with the build up of tape, the easier that thing should be to remove because then you wont have to fight with the epoxy like I did.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
Excellent idea, thanks 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet. I just don't want you to have to spend 20 mins digging it out with a chisel like I did, risking the possibility of damaging the glass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You know you have the world's coolest wife when she says she really wants to watch something "Christmasey" for Christmas Eve and follows that up, in all seriousness, by suggesting "Die Hard." (the TV filtered version of course) So hot chocolate and Die Hard it is. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:54 am
by dbcrx
flyfishingmonk wrote:You know you have the world's coolest wife when she says she really wants to watch something "Christmasey" for Christmas Eve and follows that up, in all seriousness, by suggesting "Die Hard." (the TV filtered version of course) So hot chocolate and Die Hard it is. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

Image
Funny you should mention that. My wife was having a bit of a xmas film marathon the other day and followed love actually with die hard.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it's a crazy movie. I hear they are making another one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
I saw this on Hooters. I wanted to have the pic on this thread for future reference.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I have finally started the fairing (It's been busy here at the Short's house).

:?: How far out are you guys floating the transition from the higher seams out into the wood panel? For example. The seams that wrap over the transom on the sides, I have started with a 12" inch float from the highest point on the edge toward the middle of the transom. It looks like it will suffice and seems pretty smooth. Does this description make sense?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:30 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I didn't have a specific measurement to blend the tape in... if it looks fair to the eye and you really can't tell there is a difference in elevation your good. 8)

Andrew

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good! Thanks

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Are you guys using 60 or 80 grit for prepping the laminating epoxy before the fairing epoxy goes down? I have both. 60 seems a little aggressive... Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:47 pm
by chopperman
Casey,

With biaxal, I've used either 60 or 80 grit with the RO sander depending on what I have on hand. All you're doing is sanding off the strings and any epoxy that floated over the glass. You can rub your gloved hand over the glass and it should feel relitively smooth with the strings sanded off. You will also want to sand the edges of the glass, where it transitions from one layer to another, to give it a smooth transition.

Just be carefull not to sand through the glass to the wood. I have few areas where I had to put a patch piece of glass on to fix my sanding errors. :oops:

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok makes sense. I don't think I have sanded through any places. It all looks good. I'll play around with both grits then. Thanks for the info!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Copperman - So I cleaned the area I'm working with up with 80 so I didn't go to deep and then did one quick pass with the 60. I have my first coat of QF on the transom and am prepping for the reverse chine. Then I plan to proceed with the sides and the bottom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of the recent progress.

Image

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:46 pm
by gstanfield
Wow, those are some sharp lines :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:35 pm
by SmokyMountain
Looking good Casey!! Those lines will cut you 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks George and Andrew!

PS - Today I prayed everyone on the forum, and all those reading it, would have a safe 2012.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Looking good Casey!! Those lines will cut you 8)
We were joking about this over the holidays.

I applied QF to the reverse chine on both sides. Tomorrow I hope to start to apply it to the bottom of the hull and maybe get my second coat over the transom and the chines.

Here are a couple more shots of the actual edge.

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:32 am
by gstanfield
Wow again, very nice sharp edges. Your hard work will certainly pay off my friend.
PS - Today I prayed everyone on the forum, and all those reading it, would have a safe 2012.
Thank you sir, very much. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:47 am
by Uncle D
Good job Casey. Hope you don't spend 3-4 months on fairing on the hull like I did. The bottom of the boat makes for good practice. The sides and inside of the boat is what really counts. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Good job Casey. Hope you don't spend 3-4 months on fairing on the hull like I did. The bottom of the boat makes for good practice. The sides and inside of the boat is what really counts. :wink:
Thanks! I plan to go with graphite/epoxy for the bottom. I will use this sharp edge to mask in about 3/8th inch from the chine. So all I plan to fair right now is the bottom and a few inched down from the chine (which is actually up from the chine since the boat is upside down). I think it will be real similar to yours. However, I plan to stop just under the water line toward the bow and then go with white on up to the underside of the reverse chine. I think maybe yours goes all the way up to the reverse chine near the bow, at least from what I see in the pics.

After the deck is glassed down I will fair up from the chine and the bottom of the transom to the top of the sheer. I plan for this to be my last step, after the completion of the inside and top deck of the boat. Then that will split my faring work in half.

It's amazing how strong this QF seems yet is so easy to sand. Cool stuff.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:04 am
by cali123
Just for what it is worth, It is waaaay easier to sand the sides before you flip because the sides angle towards you. Once it is flipped it would help a lot if you could raise one side of the boat at a time so that the side is at least vertical. Great job. :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
cali123 wrote:Just for what it is worth, It is waaaay easier to sand the sides before you flip because the sides angle towards you. Once it is flipped it would help a lot if you could raise one side of the boat at a time so that the side is at least vertical. Great job. :!:
Well I should clarify. Since there will be more glass from the deck to the side yet to come, I will prob only concentrate on the bottom 1/3 of the side panel for now. The sides are in pretty good shape since I planed the splices and used peel ply. However, you make a good point that I have been mulling over, and that is how much to tackle now, in light of this future glass, since it is inverted. Hmm...

And thanks for the compliment!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:02 pm
by cali123
All I had to sand after the flip was the primer on the sides. If the boat wasn't so big (Xf20) , I would have flipped it upside down for final sanding. Just trying to help. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
cali123 wrote:All I had to sand after the flip was the primer on the sides. If the boat wasn't so big (Xf20) , I would have flipped it upside down for final sanding. Just trying to help. :)
Keep the suggestions coming friend. I like all the input and feedback I can get.

Tonight I got in an hour and sanded with 80 grit on the orbital sander. It's coming along nicely. I'll post pics after I finish sanding everything.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:53 am
by Steven
Biggest time waste I found was trying to beto exacting with the application of quickfair. Next build it goes on thick and is sanded starting with 36 grit for shaping and then moving up to 80 for final smoothing. And I need to come up and see your build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Biggest time waste I found was trying to beto exacting with the application of quickfair. Next build it goes on thick and is sanded starting with 36 grit for shaping and then moving up to 80 for final smoothing. And I need to come up and see your build.
That process sounds easy enough.

Do you ever find yourself up towards 121 and The Colony/Frisco area?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:30 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:Biggest time waste I found was trying to beto exacting with the application of quickfair. Next build it goes on thick and is sanded starting with 36 grit for shaping and then moving up to 80 for final smoothing. And I need to come up and see your build.
That process sounds easy enough.

Do you ever find yourself up towards 121 and The Colony/Frisco area?
No really. But I'd find my way up there anyway. Maybe one evening after work sometime.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That would be cool. I would like your input and assessment on how things are looking. I'm about 10 to 15 mins from West Marine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:15 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:That would be cool. I would like your input and assessment on how things are looking. I'm about 10 to 15 mins from West Marine.
I"m only 10 minutes from them as well from the other side. What nights are good for you?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote: I"m only 10 minutes from them as well from the other side. What nights are good for you?
For having you come over prob any night but Tuesday. On Tuesdays I have prayer group. We can feed you too!!!! My wife makes amazing meals!!!

We are good this Thursday and open all next week (except Tuesday). I'm getting close to spreading this QF on the bottom of the hull. I have some on the transom and the reverse chine now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:45 pm
by Steven
I'll check with my bride to see if this Thursday looks good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great. I got the OK from mine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:52 pm
by Steven
Tomorrows good to go with the bride. I'm off at 3. What's a good time for you?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:19 pm
by WindKnot
Casey, that hull looks fabulous!

Great work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Tomorrows good to go with the bride. I'm off at 3. What's a good time for you?
Does 6:30 work? That gives me enough time to get home from work. Do you like fajitas?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
WindKnot wrote:Casey, that hull looks fabulous!

Great work!
Thanks!! I surpassed 435 hours last week. Slowly but surely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:29 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:Tomorrows good to go with the bride. I'm off at 3. What's a good time for you?
Does 6:30 work? That gives me enough time to get home from work. Do you like fajitas?

Everybody likes fajitas, but you really shouldn't go through any trouble. 6:30 will be good. You can email me your address. I still have your cell number if it hasn't changed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent. I look forward to it!!

I'll send you the address.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
I plugged away another 1.5 hrs last night and finished sanding the majority of the bottom of the hull with 80 grit.

I also took two 24 inch rulers and, using them as forms, taped them to the edge of the reverse chine to even out the raise where the tape wrapped up and over the lateral edge of the chine and transom. The chine kind of swept upwards toward the very end where the tape was laid and this appears to have made it more fair. It's prob overkill but oh well...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven came over for dinner and we had an excellent evening discussing boats. I learned all sorts of stuff. Thanks Steven!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:27 pm
by TRC886
8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:16 am
by cottontop
Looking nearly perfect! Love your sanding boards. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:32 am
by Steven
Had a great time last night Casey. Thanks for inviting me into your home, and thank Summer again for a delicious Fajita dinner. You have a beautiful family. It's great to be able to talk with someone who shares the boat building passion. I had to tear myself away.



His boat looks great. Those reverse chines are something to behold. No spray issue on this one. Just about ready to rev up those long board muscles. Some filling and sanding and he'll be ready for Graphite on the bottom. I may be a convert to release fabric now. So much less weave filling to be done.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it was great. Thanks for the compliments. So hopefully this weekend I can get some of the QF on the bottom and start with the long boards just as you have suggested.

Casey

To Skeg or not to Skeg.

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
After discussing with Steven and Don, and evaluating my own desire to reduce draft, I am looking to eliminate the skeg and adding strakes.

Here is a reply I received from shine regarding skegs awhile back. I asked, "Will the two reverse chines that drop down 1.5 inches (which actually ended up being almost 2 inches) on each side not play some kind of role that the skeg plays in stabilizing the boat at higher speeds? What is the adverse effect of eliminating it all together?"
shine wrote:
yes, they will help with turning, quite a bit - while on plane. They wont do anything when turning/docking.

With your chine flats and a couple of strakes, your phantom will turn as well as a boat like this able to. If you can live with a couple extra inches of draft, a skeg is nice.
Here is how the reverse chine ended up. It's pretty aggressive and should help in high speed turning, as stated above.

Image

I am looking to do add strakes similar to what Ken (stickystuff) did on his client's PH 15. Here is what he did.
stickystuff wrote:Just a note. As you can see from the hard left turn how tight the turn is< that is the reason I did the reverse chine. As the boat turns it leans to one side or the other. When it lifts up the reverse chine which has a 1" lip allows it to grab the water and hold it from sliding so much.When I built my PH16 I added strakes but did not use the reverse setup. It would grab but not as well and would still slide considerably. The reverse did the trick. Made all the difference in the world. I held them 10" away from the edge of the tunnel and 12' apart from the outside one. Tunnel side stake was 54" long and outside was 46". I think those were the measurements. any how the inside longer than the outside. It works that's all that matters. :D
I am thinking of just adding one on each side since the chine is quite a bit more aggressive on this boat than on his client's Phantom 15.

Here is a pic.

Image

Apparently they worked fine. Here Jacques chimed in.
jacquesmm wrote:Great result. Ken had a good feel for the design of those strakes. He reports no cavitation and much improved turning radius.
To reduce wear and tear on the keel I'm looking at running a keel guard a pretty good lenght from just under the reverse chine near the tip of the bow to as far back as I can take it. I remember seeing the keel guard come in very long lengths.

Everything above is open for discussion.

Casey

Strake Positioning

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is where I am thinking to position the strakes. Two long strakes at 19.5 inches from the keel, this allows them to be 7/8ths inch high and 7 feet long, the same lenght as the skeg in the plans. However, 5/8ths shorter in depth. I feel the difference is more than made up in the depth of the chine.

If I go this route I think I will create a form out of 1 x 6 pine from Home Depot or Lowes. I will then tape it and fill it with glass and epoxy. The hypotenuse of the triangle will be at 3" and 3/16"ths, the short leg that's perpendicular to the hull will be 7/8ths, and the long leg that's glued to the hull at about 3. However it wont be a true triangle because it will be flat on the top and not a completely sharp edge. It's just easiest to describe it as a triangle.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think it would be fine Casey. I made some a while back using 2" aluminum angle for a mold, and tilting it to get the triangle shape I wanted.

Those reverse chines really look good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:I think it would be fine Casey. I made some a while back using 2" aluminum angle for a mold, and tilting it to get the triangle shape I wanted.

Those reverse chines really look good!
Thanks for the compliment and the feedback. I'll get started on these strakes then and see if I can crank out some work.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Do you think I should do four shorter ones like on Ken's boat? Or just two longer ones like I have suggested? The longer ones sound easier and faster and I don't have to content with getting in the way of the speed wheel, the transducer or the high speed pick up. Keep in mind that this boat is longer, pushing maybe 19' 6". I don't know if that matters or not.

My thoughts with keeping the strakes to two and the same lenght as the skeg is simply to cover what I lose with the skeg.

Progress of the Strakes

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The progress on the strakes is coming along nicely. Here is what I have so far.

Profile. The line below the cut is the strake's hypotenuse at 3 inches. I like the look at 4, that is what it is cut at now. The transition seems nicer (not that anyone will see it under the boat). I am leaving a 1 inch flat shelf on the bottom of the strake so it will slide over something I ramp up onto like a rock or a stump.

Image

Here is its positioning directly between the keel and the chine. This also keeps it between the high speed pickup and the stringer for the trailer bunks.

Image

The core of the strake will be plywood. Three layers of 1/4 inch scrap are stacked to form the profile, this will be set down into a form I will make with MDF you see under the plastic.

Image

Good thing my wife keeps so much laundry detergent on hand. ;) I'm gonna use it for weight.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:21 pm
by MarkOrge
NICE !

I really liked your idea of the form to lay them up - Tres Cool !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:NICE !

I really liked your idea of the form to lay them up - Tres Cool !
Thanks! I hope to glue them up tonight.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I was able to laminate up the plywood core of my strakes tonight. The steps are going fast since it's not detail work. I ripped and sanded and glued up the core of the strakes in maybe 2 or 2.5 hours.

Hopefully tomorrow I can work on the MDF form. I was looking at some aluminum gutter that may work for the form but I am much more comfortable with the wood. I can machine it and change the angles faster. For some reason wood working and I get along so I figured I would stick with the wood. I'm also hoping to create a round over so I don't have to sand the edge of the strake afterwords to get the glass to lie over it. I will see if I can get creative with a round bit.

Here are the pics of the progress. I wetted out each laminate on each surface before slapping them together.

Image

I draped the plastic over the laminates then added lots of weight.

Image

I also added some spacers under the weights to make sure I was applying pressure to both sides of the middle laminate. The spacers I use for my clamps are 1/4 inch ply so they fit nicely.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The glue cured and here is how they look so far. Next up is the form.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the plan for the form. A few cuts with the table saw on the MDF, two or three passes with the router, a few sheet-rock screws and I should be all set. You can see the round-over bit, the MDF and the profile of the jig in this picture.

I plan to somehow make the end of the form with foam and have it terminate with a 12 inch taper from the bottom of the strake until it disappears into the hull. I also plan to reinforce the strake with glass as well as glass it to the hull. I'm also going to use up a can of 403 that I purchased as filler but never used. I am all set up for my cuts, now I just need my lovely wife to help with the cuts. It's an 8 foot board.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:04 am
by Steven
Why not just laminate a board to the proper thickness and then rip the desired profile on the tablesaw. You could quicly taper the ends however you like with a block plane.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Why not just laminate a board to the proper thickness and then rip the desired profile on the tablesaw. You could quicly taper the ends however you like with a block plane.
Wellll... I really didn't want to use a wood core at all to begin with. I wanted it to all be glass and epoxy. So I was planning on making the mold and filling it up. Then I got to thinking, "I have enough 1/4 scrap here to fill 70% of it with wood and still leave 1/4 inch of epoxy and fiberglass between the wood and the water."

I thought about ripping a couple 1/2" strips of okoume on the table saw and slapping them together but the 1/2" is still in sheets in my closet and there isn't enough room to rip them. So it kinda developed into what you see now. I will lay up a layer of glass or two for the top of the strake, set the wood core in place, and then trowel epoxy over the wood.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:23 pm
by Steven
That makes sense. They'll could see some abuse.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:That makes sense. They'll could see some abuse.
Yeah I figure they will get raked over some stumps, stones and oyster beds. Hopefully I tear the heck out of em'. Then it means I'm doing me some FISHING!!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:22 pm
by MarkOrge
thanks for a visual on the strake mold !! i was wondering how I was going to pull that off ... :-)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hopefully I will get it assembled tonight. Ill post some more pics for you once I do.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote:Hopefully I will get it assembled tonight. Ill post some more pics for you once I do.
Well this is as far as I got. Tomorrow evening I hope to screw the form together and maybe even start with the epoxy. You can see from the pic it's a tight squeeze getting a cabinet saw positioned to rip with a 19' 4" inch boat in the way.

The two boards on the left are cut with 90 degree angles. One will get routed to make the round over so the glass will lay over the strake. The larger board to the right is cut with an angle on both sides.
I must have been singing in this pic. Who knows...

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Update on the peel ply. I was discussing with Larry on his tread if this stuff is worth using. Not sure if it is or not but it seemed to be pretty smooth. Here is the post I put on Larry's blog. Keep in mind. He is on like is 47th build. I aint even finished the one... :? Maybe it's worth using maybe not. Either way. Here are the pics. He didn't use it on his new FS18 and the glass job looks AMAZING.
flyfishingmonk wrote:Larry - Here are some close up pics of transition between peel ply covered fiberglass and uncovered fiberglass. This is the 6 oz I used on my poling platform. The 12 oz difference I assume would be even larger. However, I don't have any pics of a transition on the 12 oz since I was able to cover it all with peel ply. I can definitely feel the difference with my hands. It's even more noticeable than what is shown in the pic. However, I'm not sure if its worth using either but it sure came out smooth.

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Update on Flats Boat Skegs.

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is my update on the skegs. The form is pretty much complete. I need to cap one end and fill the other end with foam to make the transition of the strake into the hull. It came together pretty quick. You can also see the plywood core in the picture too. You can also see in the pic the round over on the strake so the glass will lay over it.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:59 am
by Steven
From what I could see on my visit, the areas that were smooth from the peel ply had enough resin to fill the weave. I guess there are two schools of thought here. If you apply enough resin to end up with a smooth surface, then you have less post layup work to do. However, you are using straight resin to fill the weave. This will be heavier and take more resin over all than if you used a blended filler to fill the weave post layup. It really comes down to personal preference. If you can perfect the technique and get a uniform smooth surface, you would save a considerable amount of time. It will be far faster to sand the resulting surface than to sand after filling the weave. Not sure if this would amount to a lot of time saved on a smaller build, but on a larger one, like a trawler, it would be significant.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah that makes sense. On the poling platform I don't think the filling of the weave where the peel ply was will even be necessary with the exception of maybe one pass for good measure, same with the transom. I only used the epoxy on the transom, maybe 1 oz, when I had the extra oz from another batch and was looking for some place to use it. As for the hull, you are right. I didn't lay up the peel ply as fast there as I did on the transom and there was more weave to fill in various places. Which tells me for a person to achieve the smooth finish with peel ply you gotta get it on fast after the layup so as to smooth it out before the epoxy starts to set .

Progress of the Strakes

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I started on the first strake today. I first epoxied in two layers of 12 oz glass, poured in epoxy, and then placed in the wood core. I filled in any room that was left with thickened epoxy. I will have to run one more skim coat to fill any voids and then I can pop it out of the mold.

Here is a pic of the glass and the core. I will have to get more pics of the process on the next strake. I didn't stop to take any while I was working. For January this weather is amazing!

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:51 pm
by MarkOrge
Casey, in the picture of you ripping on the table saw, are you singing to Boston or Lynard Skynard? Or are you like me lately using you daughter's playlist tuning into Hedley, Katie Perry, Ke$ha etc.... LOL

Back to boats....I hope I did not miss something, but what are you using for release on your strake mold?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mark - good guess!! Skynyrd''s greatest hits is in my cd player in the garage now!! So that was prob the one. Now if you can guess which song I was singing I will be totally amazed!! :!:

As for the mold release, I used packing tape.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
First strake is in the form. Hopefully I can get the second one in tomorrow. I hope to pop it out of the form in the morning.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:04 am
by MarkOrge
Way to funny! I have to guess; either the the first word in the first line of "Gimme Three Steps" or "Call" in "They Call Me The Breeze". I have to fess up; i have been a huge Skynard fan since high school when i bought the wrong but newly released cassette at the mall by accident if you can beleive it. i almost returned it when my friend said "heh, let's listen to it just to see what it's like, it looks to be a live album". "One More From The Road" turned out to be the music of choice for us cool people for many a campfire and bush party back in '77/'78 in a place called Vernon, British Columbia, Canada (north of Spokane)

LOL

I'll be building one of those molds for sure !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Way to funny! I have to guess; either the the first word in the first line of "Gimme Three Steps" or "Call" in "They Call Me The Breeze". I have to fess up; i have been a huge Skynard fan since high school when i bought the wrong but newly released cassette at the mall by accident if you can beleive it. i almost returned it when my friend said "heh, let's listen to it just to see what it's like, it looks to be a live album". "One More From The Road" turned out to be the music of choice for us cool people for many a campfire and bush party back in '77/'78 in a place called Vernon, British Columbia, Canada (north of Spokane)

LOL

I'll be building one of those molds for sure !
It may have been "Gimme Three Steps, or maybe "That Smell" - all classics. Be careful typing those years on here, you're aging yourself. :wink:

Here is the progress so far. This is the pic of the strake popping out of the mold. I unscrewed one side to get to it.

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I gave the top of the strake a nice round over so the glass would lay down.

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Here is what the nose of it looks like.

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And here is an end profile. I haven't sanded it any so the tape on the end of the form made it look a little funny. However, once I hit it with a little sand paper the round over and other edges will clean right up. Now I'm off to church. Maybe the wife will let me work on the other strake tonight

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:42 pm
by MarkOrge
Is that resin or Canadian ice?

PS: I am not worried about aging myself anymore, I am in fact one of the world's oldest living teenagers ! (It's all in the head...)

Sweet strakes Casey, I can't wait to catch up to you !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks. I hope they turn out well. I just finished up the second strake. I still need to make one more pass of thickened epoxy over the top of the form here in a couple hours and then I will pop it out of the form tomorrow.

All in all I am pleased with how they turned out. If anybody wants a form for a strake, come get it. It will be under my boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Looks great Casey, nothing wrong with that 8)
I am in fact one of the world's oldest living teenagers ! (It's all in the head...)
No you ain't, I got you by ten years :lol: But you're right, it's all mostly in the head. I say mostly, because some days now my mind takes on a mission that my body finds tough to complete :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Looks great Casey, nothing wrong with that.
Thanks!!
Cracker Larry wrote:...some days now my mind takes on a mission that my body finds tough to complete :help:
Ha! Like building a boat?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:39 pm
by Cracker Larry
Naw, that's still easy :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Naw, that's still easy :D
Nice. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:09 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:If anybody wants a form for a strake, come get it. It will be under my boat.
Just saw this nice Casey. Send that form to Paul. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:If anybody wants a form for a strake, come get it. It will be under my boat.
Just saw this nice Casey. Send that form to Paul. :lol:
Thanks Don!.

I'll box it up. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is what the strake looks like. The second one is still curing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:23 am
by SmokyMountain
Looks great Casey!!! I like that cross-sections. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Looks great Casey!!! I like that cross-sections. 8)
Thanks Andy!

The second one is ready to pop out of the mold. The mold was flat on the bottom of the strake and the boat has a little curvature to it so it wobbles a little when I rest it on the hull. I have placed some weights on the strake to see if the epoxy will bend to the curvature. It "ain't no thang" if it don't. I will just put a little more thickened epoxy on the underside to make up the variance and will fair it out with QF.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:19 am
by MarkOrge
Nice job!

Question; can you just adhere it to the hull with epoxy or is it a must that one use a layer of cloth over the entire piece then fair it out? The part looks to be plenty strong enough...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:47 am
by Uncle D
Great looking strakes, Casey. I mentioned Paul because they are trying to figure out what to do about strakes on the GF-12

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Nice job!

Question; can you just adhere it to the hull with epoxy or is it a must that one use a layer of cloth over the entire piece then fair it out? The part looks to be plenty strong enough...
I agree, the strake itself is crazy strong. It has two layers of biaxial glass inside. However, I suppose I should glass it with at least one layer for good measure. I hate the though of hitting it with a stump, and since it is essentially a beam, the stress making it de-laminate from the hull. I hope to hear from Larry on this. Maybe he will chime in. I already have the glass; It's scrap from the fiber glassing of the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Great looking strakes, Casey. I mentioned Paul because they are trying to figure out what to do about strakes on the GF-12
Ahh I was thinking of a different builder. Am am happy to give it to anybody that wants it. A person could easily make a smaller strake with this form in both depth and length, depending on where they place the foam to shorten it, and depending on how much epoxy they pore into it for the height.

Do you have the link to Paul's thread?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:45 pm
by Cracker Larry
I hope to hear from Larry on this. Maybe he will chime in. I already have the glass; It's scrap from the fiber glassing of the hull.
If it were mine, I'd glass over it :wink: Sure came out nice, mighty fine 8)

Link to Paul's thread... http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=110

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:
If it were mine, I'd glass over it :wink: Sure came out nice, mighty fine 8)

Link to Paul's thread... http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=110
Excellent. Thanks for the compliment and the link to Paul's thread. I have plenty of glass for two layers. Which I think is what the skeg called for. Should I bump it up to two? If there is any concern with just one, then I would prefer to do two. I was thinking one with 12 oz and a second with 6, since the 6 lays down a little smother. I think I have enough 6.

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'd use 2 layers, but I've never been accused of under-building anything :lol: Never been accused of my boats falling apart either :D 12 and 6 would be good. I find the 12 to be easier to fair, the weave is tighter.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:I'd use 2 layers, but I've never been accused of under-building anything :lol: Never been accused of my boats falling apart either :D 12 and 6 would be good. I find the 12 to be easier to fair, the weave is tighter.
Ok that makes sense. Then I'll just slap two layers of 12 on her call it done.

Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah. Better to use 2 layers of equal size tape and overlap them about 4 inches over the strake. This will give you a 8" footprint of tape. It will be stronger and easier to fair with the edges staggered.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Yeah. Better to use 2 layers of equal size tape and overlap them about 4 inches over the strake. This will give you a 8" footprint of tape. It will be stronger and easier to fair with the edges staggered.
Ok. I'll do that then. That is easier than what I would have done. I like the stagger idea. Thank you.

Strake Mold

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
Got my nice camera back. Dad needed a lens to take some pics of a church he designed and helped build down in Brownsville. I loaned him my whole setup. Now that I have it back, these pics are a little better.

The second strake went smoother.

Here it is coming out of the mold.

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This pic is of me trimming off the excess glass at the nose.

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This is a detail pic of the round over.

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Phantom Strakes

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is how they look on the boat. Next up I will glass them in.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:46 am
by cottontop
Those sure are sweet. My grandfather always said if you do it right the 1st time you won't have to do it again. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
cottontop wrote:Those sure are sweet. My grandfather always said if you do it right the 1st time you won't have to do it again. 8)
Thanks! I knew I always liked that man. :)

I'm pleased with how they turned out. Next I plan to fill two noticeable low spots with some lightly thickened epoxy, then glass down the strakes, and then proceed with the fairing process.

If you see anything I should change or adjust, or have any tips along the way, please let me know.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Looks good to me. You will need a fillet between the hull and the outside edges so the tape will conform.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Looks good to me. You will need a fillet between the hull and the outside edges so the tape will conform.
Yeah I am planning on using some EZ Fillet or mixing some thickened epoxy. I think I have plenty of the EZ Fillet left because I had to order a second batch since I went through so much on the hull modification and the reverse chine.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions?

How sharp should I make the outside edge after glassing? I was planning on building it back up with epoxy, similar to what I did on the reverse chine, and then sanding it over with maybe a 1/8th or 3/16th round over. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:21 pm
by Mad Dog
That's some very nice work as usual Casey. 8)

I was thinking about the location you are showing and how that relates to the stringers. When your hull is sitting on the trailer will you be able to line the bunks directly under the stringers without them sitting on the strakes? It may not be critical but I have heard that it is better for the hull to rest on bunks directly under the stringer.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mad Dog wrote:That's some very nice work as usual Casey. 8)

I was thinking about the location you are showing and how that relates to the stringers. When your hull is sitting on the trailer will you be able to line the bunks directly under the stringers without them sitting on the strakes? It may not be critical but I have heard that it is better for the hull to rest on bunks directly under the stringer.

MD :wink:
Thanks MD!

Good call. Steven mentioned this before I started making the strakes so I planned their location between stringers. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have cut out the glass for the strakes. However, I don't want to wrap the two pieces of biaxial fiberglass around and down the transom because it is faired out with QF.

So instead of wrapping the thick two layers of biaxial down the transom, I was thinking of removing some of the QF with a palm sander and using some 6oz to come off the back end of the strake and down the surface of the transom a couple inches. Every other square inch of the strake will have the normal two layer 12oz biaxial glass with built up edges. I think it will still be plenty strong and well adhered to the hull because of the way I constructed the strakes.

Can you see any potential problems with this?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
It doesn't need to wrap the transom, I'd just run it flush.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
EXcellent. That is the answer I was hoping for. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:42 pm
by Steven
I like the idea of the 6oz. cloth. I've become very paranoid about not glassing over any joints. I have several in the GV11 that I didn't do and they show cracking along the joint. In your case, it would be purely cosmetic if it happened.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the input. Then I suppose I will slip a little 6oz in to be safe. It will be easy enough to do.

Anyone know how wide trailer bunks typically are?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
6" is typical. 8" for larger boats.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Great. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm hijacking my own thread here for a bit. I took a weekend off from the boat to volunteer my time to conduct some interviews in the Oklahoma prison system. It was an incredible experience. My Dad and a ministry he volunteers with are planning to build a chapel inside the grounds of every prison in Oklahoma.

Two are complete, two are under construction. There are 17 more to go. These chapels give the prisoners the opportunity to have more classes to help them integrate back into society (Celebrate Recovery, Marriage Classes, Parenting Classes, Bible Study, Church, prayer) as well as an opportunity to find Christ.

My dad is placing the chapel right at the entrance of the prisons, just inside the grounds, so when the prisoners show up in their shackles they see the building. And from my interviews, I can tell this gives them much hope.

The chapel, totally unlike any other building on the prison grounds, is just amazing. Once I stepped into the chapel it was like I stepped out of the prison into a totally different world. It was so interesting to talk with the prisoners, one with a 20 year sentence, two with 10 year sentences and 1 with a 7 year sentence, about the changes in their lives taking place because of the chapel and the volunteers that worked there. Hopefully we will finish the mini-documentary in a month or so.

I also interviewed a warden, a chaplain and an ex-offender about the difference taking place in the lives of the men and women. The ex-offender teared up several times. Today, he is a pastor of a church of 400 people and helps manage 100 apartments that give ex-offenders a place to begin a new life. He had an 80 year sentence and amazingly, got out in under 7. He is now a grandfather and has a family of 20 including he, his wife, their kids and their grand kids. He didn't look like a grandfather. He looked so young. Similar programs have happened in other states and the the numbers show it makes a difference with recidivism (the frequency that a person comes back into the prison system).

Spending time with all of these people was humbling experience. I realized how in many cases, only a few bad decisions separated me from them.

Here are a few pics of one of the woman's prisons. This was a minimum security prison and even then, was still intimidating. Many of these offenders have several more years to serve.

The older fellow, Glenn, is my father, and the younger guy, Matt, is my camera man. Both are very talented individuals. We shot everything with DSLR's in 1080/HD to achieve a more cinematic look and feel for the video. I get to do the fun part, the directing.

Tonight I will post up some pics of the work I got done this weekend.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Spending time with all of these people was humbling experience. I realized how in many cases, only a few bad decisions separated me from them.
Yep, mostly that, and circumstance. Good luck with that Casey 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:21 pm
by peter-curacao
It's good to read there are still people like you and your dad, thanks for sharing 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:
Spending time with all of these people was humbling experience. I realized how in many cases, only a few bad decisions separated me from them.
Yep, mostly that, and circumstance. Good luck with that Casey 8)
Man that's so true about circumstances. I was thinking the same and failed to mention that aspect. Thank you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:It's good to read there are still people like you and your dad, thanks for sharing 8)


Dad's the real brain behind it. I'm glad I have an opportunity to make some kind of impact. The state of Oklahoma has been great to work with.

Grinding down the high spots on the strakes.

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I had a couple of high spots near the front of the strakes. To tell me where to grind, I marked it off in red. After all the red was ground down I looked it over and marked the high spots again. After three passes with the marker/grinder they were both the same. Here are a couple pics of the progress. Working with a grinder makes things very fast. Today I got one strake glued onto the hull and plan to put the second one on tomorrow after work.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:51 am
by stickystuff
There you go. I was hoping I described how to do the cuts right for the entry of the strakes. Actually pictures are better than mine. Guess thats where the high dollar cameras come into play.Looks good and keep plugging along. It will all come together. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Ken! I hope to glass over them this week. Your thread did come in very helpful.

New Question.

How much should I build the edge back up after I glass the strake? I was thinking maybe a 1/8th round over. Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:37 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:How much should I build the edge back up after I glass the strake? I was thinking maybe a 1/8th round over. Thoughts?
1/8th is good. Just round enough to hold the epoxy/graphite "paint". You want it to bite into the water.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks. Then I'll sand it at 1/8th.

I got the second strake epoxied down and just checked for level with the hull. It's looking good do far.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 pm
by gstanfield
To detour back to your own hijack, thanks for what you guys are doing. I'd love to see the video when you have it finished if you don't mind sharing it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:To detour back to your own hijack, thanks for what you guys are doing. I'd love to see the video when you have it finished if you don't mind sharing it.
Detour anytime! We are working on it now. I will for sure show it when it's done. If you're a praying man say one for us as we piece this together.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:27 pm
by gstanfield
I am and I certainly will :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you George. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:19 pm
by MarkOrge
More on the hi-jack...that is an amazing initiative, with some really heart warming results!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:More on the hi-jack...that is an amazing initiative, with some really heart warming results!
Thanks Mark. My buddy and I have been going over the interviews and it looks like the footage and the audio turned out well. Now I just have to piece it together so it will encourage people to help build the chapels. I think we will need around $6,000,000 to build the 17 remaining chapels.

Dad is about to finished up a 10,000 sf chapel that he volunteered to help design and build at Camp Gruber, an Oklahoma National Guard Maneuver Training Center. It was totally designed around the needs of the soldier, all the way down the the hardwood floor and tall base board to allow servicemen's and women's grubby boots to feel right at home. Here is the progress. It was designed after a chapel that once stood on this base years ago. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oklanation ... 499877155/

Pray the work continues and that the service personnel and prisoners find peace and hope in these buildings.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
This evening I floated with thickened epoxy the edges of the strakes and filed the 90 degree angle to take the bend of the 12oz glass. After a little more epoxy work and some light sanding I will be able to glass. Maybe that will happen this weekend.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:34 am
by Uncle D
Look's good C-man.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks!!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Not sure if this is anyone's type of humor or not, but this Onion article is very funny.

Fish At Pretty Good Place In Its Life Right Now

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GULF OF MEXICO—Pausing a moment from swimming around its shallow coastal habitat to speak with reporters, a 14-month-old Atlantic tarpon admitted Tuesday that it was currently at a "pretty good place in [its] life" and "couldn’t be happier." "I feel good. I've got my health, I've reached full maturity, the autumnal migration went great—I really can’t complain,” said the 5-foot Megalops atlanticus, stating that it had everything a pelagic fish could ask for, from abundant sources of crab and grass-shrimp to zero predators in its visual field. "And this ambient water temperature and elevated salinity level feel great on my fins. Things just seem to be going my way right now, I guess." The herring went on to say that it didn't want to jinx itself, but it had to admit its spawning prospects were looking "real good" too.

On a side note. I was considering naming my boat "Shiver Me Tarpons". Then I though long and hard about "Spotted Fever" in reference to the tail of a red fish. However, I think I have landed on "The Fifth Day". Anyone know what that is in reference too?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:11 am
by wegcagle
I like The Fifth Day.

God said that the ocean shall teem with living creatures, and flying creatures shall fly over land. (May not be exact, but this is the way I remember Sunday School teaching it to me :D )

At least I think you're referring to Genesis.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Will - I sure am. You gotta love the memories of Sunday school. I think that one will be the name. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:47 am
by Uncle D
My buddies guide service is "Fifth Day Guide Service" out of Palacios. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
That is such a cool name for a guide service!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:17 am
by gstanfield
I like The Fifth Day :D

The fish humor was good too, thanks for sharing 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:I like The Fifth Day :D

The fish humor was good too, thanks for sharing 8)
:D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:55 pm
by hooter
During the building of my skiff I had the plans for a decal on the false frame of the cockpit

"Fifth Day Boatworks" with a tailing redfish and a pintail getting off the water in silhouette. (a play on words for Hells Bay Boatworks as I was building a shallow water skiff and the 5th day creation references mentioned). I finished the boat, fished and kinda forgot about it. Even mentioned it to my graphic designer friend but it never happened.

newly interested with the talk but it gets my vote for the name.

I liked that 5th day...!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
hooter wrote:During the building of my skiff I had the plans for a decal on the false frame of the cockpit

"Fifth Day Boatworks" with a tailing redfish and a pintail getting off the water in silhouette. (a play on words for Hells Bay Boatworks as I was building a shallow water skiff and the 5th day creation references mentioned). I finished the boat, fished and kinda forgot about it. Even mentioned it to my graphic designer friend but it never happened.

newly interested with the talk but it gets my vote for the name.

I liked that 5th day...!
I like the sound of the logo. Very cool. You should go ahead and use that logo idea with that name. I like it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:09 am
by MarkOrge
Luke 5:6 !!

I am assume we are all OK with this particular hijack .....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:12 am
by gstanfield
Good one Mark 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:42 am
by Mad Dog
Isn't it amazing what good things can happen when we do what Jesus tells us? 8)

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
For real. We go the opposite direction and we always seem to get into all sorts of crap. I'm speaking from experience. Everything was/is set up to protect us, I just sometimes forget this unfortunately.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question regarding the following two fiberglasses. The one on the left is 45/45 Biaxial. The one on the right is as well. Both are from Bateau. Why is there such a difference in the weave? :doh:

I am getting ready to glass both over the strake. The tighter weave has already been cut as the second layer.

One additional question. I have the bottom layer lapping from the edge of the strake over the hull 3.5 inches. I have the top layer lapping from the edge of the strake 4 inches so the edge of the bottom layer is under the top. I assume 4 ins't overkill. I think this is what Larry suggested if I remember correctly.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:09 am
by chopperman
I noticed the difference also with my last order. I never put the two side by side, but I did find that the last order had a tighter weave. I'm curious also :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Maybe Shine is using a different vendor. It looks like this will be easier to wet out and won't require near as much filling of the weave.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I hope to get time to epoxy on the glass later today.

Still a little sanding yet to do.
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Layer 1.
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Layer 2. I didn't pay to much attention lining them up for the pics.
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Peel Ply. I went ahead and placed a little glass at the very end that wraps around the transom just to be safe.
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Glassing the Strake

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
The first strake was glassed down tonight. I am finally getting closer and closer to the fairing and then will only be a few steps away from the flip.

Here I am smoothing out the peel ply over two layers of 12 Biaxial cloth.

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Here is a close up of the peel ply. You can see the excess epoxy puddling on the surface in the out of focus foreground. Everything went pretty smooth.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:26 am
by chopperman
Looking good, as always, Casey :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:08 am
by Uncle D
Little sanding, little fairing, little graphite. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:Looking good, as always, Casey :wink:
Thanks!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Little sanding, little fairing, little graphite. :D
Yeah I hope it's just a little.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Bump...
flyfishingmonk wrote:Question regarding the following two fiberglasses. The one on the left is 45/45 Biaxial. The one on the right is as well. Both are from Bateau. Why is there such a difference in the weave? :doh:

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:16 am
by Cracker Larry
The one on the right looks like 6 oz. cloth to me, the one on the left is 12.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:34 am
by wegcagle
The one on the right looks like 6 oz. cloth to me, the one on the left is 12.
I REALLY hope not C.L. because all of the 12oz biax tape that Joel sent me for by build looks just like the one on the right. My 12oz biax sheet looked like the one on the left, but the tape rolls looked like the one on the right. Maybe I should've asked the same question a while ago :?:

Now I'm getting nervous :?

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:43 am
by Steven
All of my 12oz. tape looked like the right picture, and it was definitely 12oz. Seems like I might have had some cloth with a tighter weave like the left.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:21 am
by Cracker Larry
It's easy enough to tell. Cut a square yard of it and weigh it :wink:
I REALLY hope not C.L. because all of the 12oz biax tape that Joel sent me for by build looks just like the one on the right.
I really hope not too 8O I will say that a while back I ordered a roll of 12 oz. tape and when it came it looked a little thin to me. I compared it to some 12 oz. tape I already had and it was obviously not 12, it was 6. I emailed Joel and he replaced it with 12.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
Holding it in my hand it feels heavy. However, I grabbed 7 square feet to weigh on the mail scale at work.

I can hear it now, "Hey Casey! Get back to work. Go help some more people in Asia."

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:19 am
by Cracker Larry
Need 9 square feet to make a yard :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I figure I can divide to get it close enough.;) I didn't have a tidy square yard and this was the closest I could get to come up with something to use in the equation without hopefully guessing. It's what I managed to piece together for the strake. I tossed it in a plastic baggy. It's here on my shelf.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Well it's heavier than 6oz and the first shipment of glass and tape appear to be exactly the same fabric. Here is what the weight came to.

I measured it a little more accurately. I have roughly 6.75 square with me. Assuming 12oz per yard, each square foot should weigh 1.333 oz. So at 6.75 sq feet I should be around 9oz.

However, this glass weighs 7.6oz on the mail scale, which is heavier than 6oz per yard for sure but not quite 12oz either. If the glass is a perfect 6.75sf, which it's relatively close, then each square foot would weigh 1.13oz and a yard would weigh in at 10.13. So my guess is that I have glass classified as 12oz, even if it's a little shy by an oz or two.

The difference could be in the manufacturing of the glass, the mail scale, the glass stretching as I laid it out to cut the square shape for the strake, my math or the glass isn't quite 6.75. However, I think my math and the scale and my measuring are relatively accurate.

Even if it is closer to 10 than 12, I don't think I'll loose any sleep over it because I used to layers on the bottom, 5 on the keel and 3 layers on the reverse chines, which were already super solid.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have hardly touched my boat in two weeks. I was moved to a new position at work and man it has been wearing me out. They put me in charge of changing the voice of the ministry, to move away from journalism and toward engaging, creative, persuasive copy-writing. 8O It's so mentally challenging that I sometimes get home and just pass out around 7:00 pm.

However, I seem to be acclimating and did finish up a little work on the boat. I was able to epoxy the second strake and sanded both of them in preparation for Quick Fair. Hopefully tomorrow I will start building up the edge of both strakes and maybe even get to put down some QF.

On a side note, I may even get out for a few hours in the next coming days and chase some bass!!!!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:56 am
by tobolamr
flyfishingmonk wrote:On a side note, I may even get out for a few hours in the next coming days and chase some bass!!!!! :D
I am so so wishing I could join you!!!!! Still a foot of ice on our lakes. :cry:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:On a side note, I may even get out for a few hours in the next coming days and chase some bass!!!!! :D
I am so so wishing I could join you!!!!! Still a foot of ice on our lakes. :cry:
Man now that sounds cold

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
It's 80 degrees in Georgia :D Big storm coming soon though, no fishing here today.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That's some nice temps. Ever since I started on the boat I haven't done as much fishing. Which is cool because this building is fun!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Strakes are down and I started adding QF today. There isn't much contrast in this pic but the strakes can still be made out.

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Here is what I did at the very end just to be extra safe.

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And here are some bass flies I tied up.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:32 pm
by gstanfield
Wow, those are some big ol nasty flies 8O I've never tried anything larger than my 9ft #5 with a wooley bugger on it. What size gear are you using with those big boys?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:41 pm
by Cracker Larry
Looks like good redfish flies too 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Looks like good redfish flies too 8)
Larry - They just might. :D
gstanfield wrote:Wow, those are some big ol nasty flies 8O I've never tried anything larger than my 9ft #5 with a wooley bugger on it. What size gear are you using with those big boys?
I will be using my 8 weight. Check out these tarpon flies below that I tied up on 6/0 hooks for my 12 weight. My thumb looks tiny next to them. The bottom pic is the leader straightener. The top pic is a massive Wolly Bugger for bass. It's huge and is tied with dual weed guards. I think I tied it on a 3/0. It's about the same size as the tarpon fly.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:32 pm
by gstanfield
Wow, that's some impressive gear you have there :D I still can't figure out how to trick a rainbow into taking a fly from me :oops:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
I still can't figure out how to trick a rainbow into taking a fly from me :oops:
Tip it with a worm :wink: Or a piece of sweet corn :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:40 pm
by gstanfield
:lol: Good idea Larry, except the department of Game and Farce here in Wyoming has decided that I cannot use corn to catch fish. :roll:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:55 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dang :doh: It's rules like that turn normal thinkin' folks into criminals :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Dang :doh: It's rules like that turn normal thinkin' folks into criminals :?
Those are the rivers I like to fish the most, the ones with the regulation. Typically, when it comes to trout fishing, when the bait fishermen leave a controlled river the catch and release boys keep tossing them back and then the pigs get huge. Like these two below. Its totally different than saltwater fishing. You don't have the whole ocean to repopulate the water.
gstanfield wrote:Wow, that's some impressive gear you have there :D I still can't figure out how to trick a rainbow into taking a fly from me :oops:
Both were caught on wolly buggers, on a regulated river.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:55 am
by AussieBoater
gstanfield wrote:Wow, that's some impressive gear you have there :D I still can't figure out how to trick a rainbow into taking a fly from me :oops:
George, i don't think they will take them out of your hand... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am
by gstanfield
Well maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've been tying on my fly then putting a bobber about 18" above the fly and letting it drift downstream letting out line until my spool is empty and then reeling it in and trying again. I've yet to have the bobber go under water :doh: :?
Those are the rivers I like to fish the most, the ones with the regulation...
That's all I have to choose from out here, but I really don't mind it to be honest as I can catch fish out here pretty easy :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:Well maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've been tying on my fly then putting a bobber about 18" above the fly and letting it drift downstream letting out line until my spool is empty and then reeling it in and trying again. I've yet to have the bobber go under water :doh: :?
George, are you fishing the bobber below an ultra light spin rod? What kind of fly? A woolly bugger?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:24 am
by gstanfield
that was actually a joke implying that I tied a fly on my fly rod, clipped on a bobber and just let it float downstream until it ran out of line :wink:

In all seriousness I've tried a variety of flies from nymphs, wolley buggers, grasshoppers, etc and have never really been too successful with them. I always get frustrated and grab my ultralight with a spinner after about an hour with the flyrod.

One day I may break down and hire a guide for the day just to learn what I'm doing wrong, but a guide isn't cheap and I am :wink:

Any suggestions for flyfishing the North Platte? Know of any good websites to better learn flyfishing in general? I'm all ears 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:that was actually a joke implying that I tied a fly on my fly rod, clipped on a bobber and just let it float downstream until it ran out of line :wink:
I figured you were serious since a lot of guys actually do this. :)
gstanfield wrote:In all seriousness I've tried a variety of flies from nymphs, wolley buggers, grasshoppers, etc and have never really been too successful with them. I always get frustrated and grab my ultralight with a spinner after about an hour with the flyrod.

One day I may break down and hire a guide for the day just to learn what I'm doing wrong, but a guide isn't cheap and I am :wink:

Any suggestions for fly fishing the North Platte? Know of any good websites to better learn fly fishing in general? I'm all ears 8)
Well I suggest going to the river with only a fly rod and keep trying up different flies and lengths of leader and split shot size until you feel you are bouncing the fly right along the bottom. I typically fish with an indicator that can easily be adjusted for depth and I get the fly down to the bottom. Oftentimes my leader is 1.5 to 2 times the length of the depth of the river or hole I am fishing. Start with that, and give yourself more than an hour, and you will begin to hook up on some fish.

For fishing the Platte I would look into the Fly Fishers Guide Series of books. They cover the Platte really well. They have written these books for several states.

Hope that helps!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 pm
by gstanfield
Thanks, I'll give that a shot when the weather warms up some. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:Thanks, I'll give that a shot when the weather warms up some. :D
Sure thing. If you have any fly fishing related questions ask anytime. I managed a fly shop for 6 years and have been fly fishing now for 17. I just love it!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
I started the fairing process and now have mixed six 3/4 cup batches of quick fair and applied it to the where the two layers of 12oz glass cover the strakes. It seems to be going well. :) I havent started the sanding process yet.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:41 am
by Uncle D
Ahh, the fun begins.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fellow Builders,

What grit sand paper are you taking the quick fair down to as a final pass with a long board before adding the epoxy/graphite to the bottom of the hull?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:39 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

I took mine down to 80 grit before I primed the hull. I would assume the same for epoxy / graphite. Have fun sanding.... :lol: I'm close to final fairing for the sheer and fairing of the decks where quwi grip is not going.... not really looking forward to it..

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:49 pm
by Uncle D
I did 100 or 120 grit before Graphite/Epoxy. And for primer, Joel said just to use neat epoxy instead of high build. But either would be fine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Casey,

I took mine down to 80 grit before I primed the hull. I would assume the same for epoxy / graphite. Have fun sanding.... :lol: I'm close to final fairing for the sheer and fairing of the decks where quwi grip is not going.... not really looking forward to it..
Andy - Do you think stepping on your fly line, on top of kiwi grip, could damage the line?
Uncle D wrote:I did 100 or 120 grit before Graphite/Epoxy. And for primer, Joel said just to use neat epoxy instead of high build. But either would be fine.
Neat epoxy?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:47 pm
by Steven
I used high build just because there there is so much contrast with the differnt colors of fairing materials/wood and epoxy. Makes it really difficult to see what you are doing. And I can attest to the bonding strength of the high build. My wife has a nice SS mixing bowl with a splash of white primer that only comes off using a very shart instrument to scrape it off. :) It is bonded very well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Is it necessary to use primer under the epoxy/graphite? Or are you referring to the rest of the boat's surface?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:20 pm
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:Is it necessary to use primer under the epoxy/graphite? Or are you referring to the rest of the boats surface?

Nope. Graphite is just another filler. You may want to put a coat of neat (no fillers) epoxy over Quick Fair just to make sure it is sealed.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok so that is what you guys mean by "neat" epoxy. I was planning on doing this to first seal the fairing compound and then following up with the graphite epoxy. So it sounds like I am on the right track.

Thank you!




Side note: I just ordered two rolls of sand paper for my fairing boards. One is 80 grit and one is 100 grit. I picked up Velcro for the boards at HD.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:39 pm
by SmokyMountain
Andy - Do you think stepping on your fly line, on top of kiwi grip, could damage the line?
That's a good question. I think if you had hard sole shoes on yes. Barefoot or soft sole booties / sandals probably not. I'm going for the softer texture on the Kiwi Grip. The aggressive stipple will tear up your knees. I'm going to do some test textures before I start slathering that stuff on my deck. :D I don't know about you but most of my fishing I have sandals, booties or bare feet. In the fall / winter I'll have to be a little more careful where I step on deck, but that will be the case no matter what kind of finish you have on deck. Get to sanding!! :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:34 pm
by cottontop
Boat sure is looking fine. Where did you order your sandpaper from? John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Andy - I'm real interested to get your feedback as you test the grip.

John - Thanks! I ordered it from Online Industrial Supply. It was about 40 bucks for the two rolls. That included shipping.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I feel I have hardly even started sanding and I have gone through 3/4 of the QF that came with the kit just towards the back of the boat. I have been using it to float out the transition of the two layers of 12 oz glass that covers the strakes.

This transition goes from these two layers back up toward the keel where there are five layers. I think this is where most of the material is getting used because I am bridging the float from the two layers of the strake over to the center line of the keel which is the top of the five layers. This valley must be pretty deep. :?

On the outside of the strakes I have feathered it out 12 inches. The strake on the left side of the photo has the build up of the bottom edge. I had some black dye so I used it since this will be one of the lowest places on the boat, and since I will have a black graphite finish, I figured I might as well make it black so when it gets nicked it will still match. (as if anybody will ever see it... sheesh).

Here is what I have so far. Slowly but surly.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:33 pm
by callyb
Hi there guys. I know I don't post much, but someday I'll get around to building... :roll: I mean I've only been toying with the idea for the last ten years.

Anyway Casey, I've been following your build and saw this question which made me think of an old build I have bookmarked. I hope it helps give an alternative idea to the roller application. This is the way I plan on applying non-skid to my Checkmate (once I get the floor done).
Andy - Do you think stepping on your fly line, on top of kiwi grip, could damage the line?
Image

Here is the link to the build thread: http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8715

I believe it was applied with a knock-down gun. I have applied bed liner with this method with a high level of success before, but I think an undercoat gun might produce a similar texture with the kiwigrip also.

Just a thought. I hope it helps.

Cally

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
callyb,

Hey I like that idea a lot. I have shot quite a bit of wall texture on the walls of a few houses and at my old company we used a hopper to spray a thick decorative concrete treatment that I imagine is very similar to this material. I need to look into this further.

Thank you for the great suggestion.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Surprisingly, I enjoy the sanding. It's like a workout but with immediate results. I took Steven's advice and put Velcro on the longboard and ordered long rolls of hook and loop sandpaper. It works real nice.

On a side note, I'm looking forward to today's primary race in Michigan. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today I picked up one of the small, yellow, rubber sanding boards from Harbor Freight. Steven suggested it. Looks handy and will compliment my 24" and 36" inch boards nicely. I ordered 3 more quarts of fairing compound from Shine along with some epoxy and a couple of odds and ends.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:45 pm
by Steven
I love those foam sanding boards. I now have 2. :) What did I tell you about quick fair. 5 gallons next time. :) Well, maybe a couple any way. I think I've used about 9 qts. I've probably sanded off half as much. :oops: I'm much better with it now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I love those foam sanding boards. I now have 2. :) What did I tell you about quick fair. 5 gallons next time. :) Well, maybe a couple any way. I think I've used about 9 qts. I've probably sanded off half as much. :oops: I'm much better with it now.

I don't feel like I have sanded off to much. The high spots I really worked over were some ridges along some seams. As for the sanding of the QF, I don't feel like I have sanded off too much. I'm trying to stick to just filling the low spot as much as possiable. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have officially surpassed 500 man hours. This does not include research, time spent purchasing products or time spent on the forum. I have a feeling that once I get if flipped it will go a little faster since everything from there on out is a little more straight forward unlike all the custom work I have done on the reverse chine and the 2.5 extra feet I added toward the bow. Slowly but surly. :D

I added Velcro to my small 3M block sander and to the foam sander from Harbor Freight. Works like a champ.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
I actually enjoy the sanding better than applying the QF. I think it's because it's therapeutic.

I picked up a nice fire extinguisher and a mounting bracket at a car show in Oklahoma last weekend. Looks to be just the thing I'll need.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:16 pm
by tobolamr
Are you sanding so hard you're starting a fire???? :lol:
Any new pics?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Are you sanding so hard you're starting a fire???? :lol:
Any new pics?
I'm like the speed of lightning! I had three fires start up on me last weekend! :D

You know the pics don't really show much. I'm currently using a long 48" rule to check the flatness of the last 6 feet of the hull. The areas in between the keel-line, the strakes and the chine are the main areas I have been focusing on. Although I did add QF to about 20% of the bottom of the hull near the bow last night.

It's coming together, slowly but surely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:25 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:I have officially surpassed 500 man hours. This does not include research, time spent purchasing products or time spent on the forum. I have a feeling that once I get if flipped it will go a little faster since everything from there on out is a little more straight forward unlike all the custom work I have done on the reverse chine and the 2.5 extra feet I added toward the bow. Slowly but surly. :D

I added Velcro to my small 3M block sander and to the foam sander from Harbor Freight. Works like a champ.
Yikes. That's why I never counted the hours. I have velcro on all my sanding blocks now. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I have Velcro on all my sanding blocks now. :)
Yeah I'm glad you mentioned that. Works like a champ. I picked up a finish sander this weekend at Lowe's. It's just a little hand held rubber shoe with hook and loop on the base. Looks to be a nice little sander for detail work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:40 pm
by Boater45
Looks great!! I really like your strakes!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Boater45 wrote:Looks great!! I really like your strakes!!
Hey thanks Boater45!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Honey-e-dos, volunteer work and getting hooked on a TV show on Netflix with my wife have kept me from the boat -- but not totally.

So on the plans it says the last 6 feet needs to be nice a flat. Just how flat is flat? Measuring from the transom the hull begins to slope maybe a 1/16 inch as it approaches the 4 foot mark. The slope then picks up to about an 1/8th as it finishes off towards the 6 foot mark. From there the beginning of the slope toward the bow really begins. This variance seems to be symmetrical on both sides. It this within tolerance?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:09 pm
by nc_robbie
Great work, I have been out of the loop for a while and have missed your progress…keep it up its looking incredible. You will have her on the water in no time now!!!
Oh, yea have to keep up on them honey-do jobs or the wife may put you on couch therapy….Rob
8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
nc_robbie wrote:Great work, I have been out of the loop for a while and have missed your progress…keep it up its looking incredible. You will have her on the water in no time now!!!
Thanks Rob!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
Bump. :)
flyfishingmonk wrote:So on the plans it says the last 6 feet needs to be nice a flat. Just how flat is flat? Measuring from the transom the hull begins to slope maybe a 1/16 inch as it approaches the 4 foot mark. The slope then picks up to about an 1/8th as it finishes off towards the 6 foot mark. From there the beginning of the slope toward the bow really begins. This variance seems to be symmetrical on both sides. It this within tolerance?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:58 am
by Uncle D
Casey, I'm gonna venture to say that you are about as close to flat as you need to be unless you want to get anal about it. That said, Get er finished Ol' Son!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Casey, I'm gonna venture to say that you are about as close to flat as you need to be unless you want to get anal about it. That said, Get er finished Ol' Son!!
Excellent. Thank you for the feedback. I'll proceed. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:53 am
by SmokyMountain
Casey, I'm gonna venture to say that you are about as close to flat as you need to be unless you want to get anal about it. That said, Get er finished Ol' Son!!

DITTO!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:38 pm
by tech_support
It this within tolerance?
yes, that is better than most boats

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Awesome. Then I'm on the right track

Thanks Shine, Smokey and Don.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:05 am
by Uncle D
?????

What's up :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
For real.

I took a contract side job that will finish up this weekend.

Hopefully I can be back on the boat in the next week or so. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:39 pm
by nc_robbie
We look forward to seeing you back at it again at full steam….but I know job brings money and we all have to live…Rob :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
nc_robbie wrote:We look forward to seeing you back at it again at full steam….but I know job brings money and we all have to live…Rob :!:
Thanks Rob.

Yeah. I put in an extra 80+ hours the last two weeks or so, in addition to my regular work, and the job is now done. So that's nice. Maybe I can get back on the boat in the next week or two.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I still haven't touched the boat any this month. I am trying to pull off some backyard renovations before I get back on it. A pavestone patio for the kids and several flower beds for the wife. It looks like small raised garden is in the works too. So hopefully I will be back on it soon. I'm ready to finish up what's left on the fairing and get this thing flipped.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Did the builders galleries change? I'm having trouble getting into that section of the website.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:55 pm
by tobolamr
Casey, I think it's from the server change. I think it's going to get ironed out over the next few days.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey, I think it's from the server change. I think it's going to get ironed out over the next few days.
Excellent. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got back on my build this weekend after a 1.5 month hiatus. I have a question about fairness.

The plans call for 6 feet flat from the transom toward the bow. How much variance can this have toward the back where the tape on the transom is? If I fill fairing compound between the rise in the tape on the transom all the way forward towards the 6 foot mark I will be filling forever. Will 12 to 24 inch fair work from the higher area where the tape is on the transom? This will give me about a 1/8th inch variance in the flatness as it slopes off the higher tape on the transom.

Casey

P.S. Over the last 30 days I did manage to round up a couple new fly reels for the boat. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:17 pm
by nc_robbie
Its good to see you at it again…..keep us informed on your progress….Rob

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:10 pm
by Bluefish2
Casey,
You can never have enough fly reels.
I decided to add a fifth popup cleat so my fs17 is as fly line friendly as possible.
Now how do I store the 4 piece spinning rods? so they don't catch the fly line?
Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
nc_robbie wrote:Its good to see you at it again…..keep us informed on your progress….Rob
I sure will. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Bluefish2 wrote:Casey,
You can never have enough fly reels.
That's what I'm trying to convince my wife!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm making progress. I can see the hull's fairness really taking shape.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:23 pm
by Flea
Hi Casey, i noticed the builders gallery amongst a few other functions around here have not been working lately. Have you managed to get any more recent pics?

Flea

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Flea wrote:Hi Casey, i noticed the builders gallery amongst a few other functions around here have not been working lately. Have you managed to get any more recent pics?

Flea
I haven't. It appears to be working now so I will upload a few more when I get some more progress done. Right now the pics between the various layers of Quick Fair will not show much. I plan to upload a few once I approach the stage where I seal the Quick Fair with epoxy. And then I'll add more pics of the epoxy with the graphite additive. At that point I think I will go with ordering the trailer and will flip this Phantom right over onto the trailer. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Bump.
flyfishingmonk wrote:I got back on my build this weekend after a 1.5 month hiatus. I have a question about fairness.

The plans call for 6 feet flat from the transom toward the bow. How much variance can this have toward the back where the tape on the transom is? If I fill fairing compound between the rise in the tape on the transom all the way forward towards the 6 foot mark I will use so much QF. Will a 12 to 24 inch fair work from the higher area where the tape is on the transom down toward the rest of the 6 foot flat area? This will give me about a 1/16th inch variance in the flatness as it slopes off the higher tape on the transom.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:40 pm
by Steven
1/16" tolerance is fine. I doubt you'll find a production hull that good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good! Thanks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:09 am
by Flea
Im looking forward to the flip! woohoo..

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks. I'm getting closer and closer. I think I'll start researching for the trailer and and when I flip it, I'll put it right on the trailer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
It was a good weekend for boat building. I was able to juggle a birthday party, shopping with the wife for groceries, time with the kids, exercise, lunch with the friends, and church, and still manage to get in about 6 or 7 hours of building! :D I'm still on the fairing, but I'm finding I'm having to do very little sanding between coats of QF. I believe it's because of the detail I'm taking using the 14 inch taping trowel and 24 inch skip trowel. They really curve well over the hull. I also shaped the tip of the bow where the two revers chines meet. Once that area is complete I will post a pic. A 5 inch grinder sure does a great job of taking down any high spots. I had two where I glued on the strakes.

I sanding the sides tonight, about 16 inches down from the chine. Tomorrow I hope to get a lot of QF on the bottom and also plan to float down the side of the hull from the reverse chine with the dry wall taping trowel 14 inches to fully hide the tape. There isn't much step down from the tape over the chine to the fiberglass. I think it may be because of the peel ply. It really flattened it out nicely.

Casey

P.S. On a side note. My wife and I are getting some training on Saturday with a ministry called Open Table to lean more about how we can assist helping a homeless person get back on there feet. It looks like a pretty cool program, very successful. For you praying people out there - pray it goes well.

P.S.S. For those of you that were following the thread awhile back, I wrote and directed a short film about the prison chapel program in Oklahoma. We finished it. Some people get teared up watching it. This video is about 5 mins long and designed to be shown in small groups and Sunday school classes. Here is the link.

Prison Chapel Video for Small Groups

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:38 am
by Flea
Your doing a good deed there casey, with the homeless. i know how it feels. i have only put my life back together 6yrs ago. i am a reformed alcholoic. i lost my house, wife, kids and was left with only the shirt on my back. It wasnt till i meet the salvation army they put me through a 10 month rehab program.they i went to a halfway house after graduating, met my new wife shortly after, and have been married for 2yrs now. i have been sobor since that day i moved into that rehab. My life could not be any better now. i know how quick i can loose it all if im not on gaurd. i put things into my daily life to stay sober,but wouldnt have it any other way. i am forever gratful to the salvos, and god. if you saw me now you would never believe the life i had. you cant save everyone but without people like youself, not many would be able to help them selfs. God bless, leigh. ps, cant wait to see your ph splashed

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:54 am
by Mad Dog
flyfishingmonk wrote:P.S. On a side note. My wife and I are getting some training on Saturday with a ministry called Open Table to lean more about how we can assist helping a homeless person get back on there feet. It looks like a pretty cool program, very successful. For you praying people out there - pray it goes well.

P.S.S. For those of you that were following the thread awhile back, I wrote and directed a short film about the prison chapel program in Oklahoma. We finished it. Some people get teared up watching it. This video is about 5 mins long and designed to be shown in small groups and Sunday school classes. Here is the link.

Prison Chapel Video for Small Groups
Casey, I'm standing with you in prayer. I'll have to wait until I get home to check out the video, but I'm looking forward to it.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Flea wrote:i know how it feels. i have only put my life back together 6yrs ago... God bless, leigh. ps, cant wait to see your ph splashed
Man I'm glad things are going so much better for you. Thank you for sharing. It's good to hear the human side of people on this forum. Various members have been through difficult things. Praying they continue to look up.
Mad Dog wrote:Casey, I'm standing with you in prayer. I'll have to wait until I get home to check out the video, but I'm looking forward to it. MD :wink:
Thanks MD.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:16 pm
by MarkOrge
Prayers of support from Canada on your upcoming inititive !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Prayers of support from Canada on your upcoming inititive !!
Thanks Mark!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:36 pm
by gstanfield
I'll add you to our prayer list my friend. :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
gstanfield wrote:I'll add you to our prayer list my friend. :!:
Thank you George!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:33 pm
by LeakinLeana
Awesome ministry, just joined this forum but is nice to see how faith and boat building seem to go hand in hand. Enjoyed your thread.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:39 pm
by peter-curacao
LeakinLeana wrote:Awesome ministry, just joined this forum but is nice to see how faith and boat building seem to go hand in hand. Enjoyed your thread.
He was a carpenter if I'm well informed :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 pm
by gstanfield
A carpenter who hung out with a bunch of fishermen. I think he'd certainly approve of wooden boat building :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
LeakinLeana - Welcome aboard!

Peter and George - you gotta love it! Carpenters and fishermen, good company.

As for the boat. I just cant bring myself to live with this dip from the transom out to the flat portion of the hull, specifically the slight valley created by the tape around the transom. I'm floating it out 48 inches toward the bow. By then it looks like I may be toward the curve in the hull at that point. So now I need to order more QF. Call me crazy. I hope Shine and his crew are in the office tomorrow because I'm gonna need this QF by Friday.

Good news. I recruited my father to help me. He's coming down for two days. Finally some assistance. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:12 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote: Call me crazy.
Okay Crazy.. :help: :lol: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
:lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My next 3 Q of QF is on it's way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:22 pm
by cali123
Perfect will be just fine! 8) 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:04 pm
by Flea
Any more updates on your build my friend. Sorry need my fix!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah! Just got through putting on a whole cost of QF. Next cost scheduled for around 3:30. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:50 pm
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:Yeah! Just got through putting on a whole cost of QF. Next cost scheduled for around 3:30. :D
Move your left hand one space to the left. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:41 pm
by pee wee
Maybe it's a Freudian slip- QF isn't inexpensive . . .

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ha ha! Blame it on this darn iPhone.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:20 pm
by tobolamr
Pictures? Pictures? I'm going through fresh picture withdrawl here, man.... NEED PICTURES! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:58 pm
by Flea
tobolamr wrote:Pictures? Pictures? I'm going through fresh picture withdrawl here, man.... NEED PICTURES! :lol:
\n

Yeah, what he said!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
All right. Here they are. I added a couple family pics too.

We were able to get two coats on the bottom of the hull.

I used a 48" ruler to float out the last 4 feet perfectly smooth with 0 to 1/32 tolerance. I tape the ruler so it's easy to clean. I used it several times before pulling off the tape, cleaning it with a brush and vinegar. I also used a 24 inch and a 14 inch trowels.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:36 am
by Flea
love those lines on the hull, chines look great, and your edges look nice and crisp! lovely touch with the family pics, you all look very happy, cant wait to see the smile on there faces once shes splashed!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Flea wrote:love those lines on the hull, chines look great, and your edges look nice and crisp! lovely touch with the family pics, you all look very happy, cant wait to see the smile on there faces once shes splashed!
Thanks Flea!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:49 am
by Cracker Larry
The boat's looking great Casey 8)
love those lines on the hull,
Forgive me, but Summer has the nicest lines in that last pic :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:The boat's looking great Casey 8)
love those lines on the hull,
Forgive me, but Summer has the nicest lines in that last pic :D
Thanks Larry!! Yeah. I have to agree. That wife of mine is just an amazing woman. I love her so much.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:37 pm
by tobolamr
Casey - Thanks for the pics. I'm glad you know I'm just adding some humourous drama when I go nuts over pics from your build! Your family looks great! I'm glad there's another man out there who is also very amazed by his wife - I know I sure am amazed by my 'ette!

Keep the pics and build updates coming! I can't wait to see this get splashed!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey - Thanks for the pics. I'm glad you know I'm just adding some humourous drama when I go nuts over pics from your build! Your family looks great! I'm glad there's another man out there who is also very amazed by his wife - I know I sure am amazed by my 'ette!

Keep the pics and build updates coming! I can't wait to see this get splashed!
I'll keep em coming. Hopefully I can continue with some decent progress. Maybe this boat will be flipped over before the next millennium.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:47 pm
by Flea
Casey, im sure you will have her flipped before the next millenium, keep plodding along mate. Doesnt matter how long you take, your doing a great job. Cant rush something thats meant to give you enjoyment. cheers, Leigh.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Flea.

I continued building up the edge of the strakes last night. I have one more coat of thickened epoxy to add to one strake and then I can fair them next.

After they are fair I will proceed with maybe two more coats of QF over low spots of the hull that I can see and feel with my hand. At that point I may proceed with the epoxy coat and then the final graphite coat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fellow Builders,

I'm planning on an 1/8th inch round over on the strakes and a 1/4 inch round over on the chine and transom and keel.

Thoughts? Feedback?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:38 pm
by Seadation
flyfishingmonk wrote:Fellow Builders,

I'm planning on an 1/8th inch round over on the strakes and a 1/4 inch round over on the chine and transom and keel.

Thoughts? Feedback?

Casey
Hello Casey,

Those roundovers will work. I would go 1/4" and 3/8" personally, but I like "soft" edges.

Fair Winds,

David

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent! Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:33 am
by Steven
On the transom, you want it as sharp as you can get it, with just enough radius to hold paint. It should be a very fine edge.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cool. Then I'll keep it sharp. It's still razor sharp now. I'll flatten it just enough for the paint then.

Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:23 pm
by Seadation
Steven wrote:On the transom, you want it as sharp as you can get it, with just enough radius to hold paint. It should be a very fine edge.
Hello Casey,

I misunderstood. :oops: The underwater, trailing edge of your transom needs to be sharp. I was thinking of the above-water edge of the transom for rounding over.

/david

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got ya no worries.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
To Everybody,

So it's time for me to start thinking trailers. Any thoughts on a tongue that is removable or a tongue that breaks over? I would like to be able to keep this boat in my garage at an angle.

To Steven,

Now that you have your trailer, do you like it?

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:42 pm
by Seadation
flyfishingmonk wrote:To Everybody,

So it's time for me to start thinking trailers. Any thoughts on a tongue that is removable or a tongue that breaks over? I would like to be able to keep this boat in my garage at an angle.

Sincerely,

Casey
If you buy a new trailer the builder should be able to make you one with a folding tongue. Otherwise, places like Cabelas sells something like this. DIY installation doesn't look too difficult.
Image

As far as brands, I'm very happy with Magic Tilt. I've had two of their aluminum trailers over the years. I believe they are made in Florida. Some other brand made nearer to you might be cheaper.

Did you want an aluminum trailer?

/david

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I think I would prefer aluminum. It will get used in the salt.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:26 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:To Everybody,

So it's time for me to start thinking trailers. Any thoughts on a tongue that is removable or a tongue that breaks over? I would like to be able to keep this boat in my garage at an angle.

To Steven,

Now that you have your trailer, do you like it?

Sincerely,

Casey

I'd have gone with a folding tongue if it would have allowed the trailer to fit in my garage.


I'm really impressed with the quality of the trailer. There was a mishap with the length, which I failed to catch on the buyers order, but they fixed it at no cost by sending me a replacement tongue. Their customer service is fantastic. The price was better than anything I could find around here, and it's all aluminum with stainless hardware. Perfect for saltwater. I'd buy from them again for sure.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:17 pm
by Boater45
Check this folding coupler out made by Fulton, bolt on and fits a 3"x3" I just ordered one. http://ecustomhitch.com/i-8202995-fulto ... r-kit.html

I found a trailer on Craigslist for $175!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven - It is a Horizon trailer.Correct?

Boater 45. - Craigslist is a good idea. I may look around on there some and see what I dig up. $175 sure is a good price. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Never mind Steven, I found the pics of your trailer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Horizon isn't picking up their phone. It's disconnected. Maybe they will respond via email.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
Next coat of QF coming up. The low spots are disappearing before my eyes. :D

I think I may be down to the final two coats. The batches I'm mixing are very small now because one batch goes so far.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am considering this instead of graphite so I can have a boat with a white (white-ish) bottom.

http://sandblastingabrasives.com/hexago ... e-781.html

Thoughts?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:39 pm
by Steven
Interesting. I wonder if it would provide the same UV protection the graphite seems too. Definitely would require some testing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hmmm... I never thought about the UV protection. Apparently guys are using them on kayaks and having some good results.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:45 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Hmmm... I never thought about the UV protection. Apparently guys are using them on kayaks and having some good results.
Roll on a few coats of primer first. I did under my graphite. Then it won't matter. Worse case if it is a problem years from now, just sand and reapply.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:47 pm
by Mad Dog
For a bottom coat I don't think UV protection is a big issue since it gets little direct sunlight. Go fo it...

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:45 pm
by MarkOrge
Maybe "UV" means "under vahta"
Like underwater with a German accent
Underwater protection LOL sorry had to say it and make you grin

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Maybe "UV" means "under vahta"
Like underwater with a German accent
Underwater protection LOL sorry had to say it and make you grin
ha ha :)

I think I will order the white and slap it under there and not look back.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:42 am
by cottontop
Casey the boat is coming along nicely. What Steven says is a great idea. There have been a few builders who have added the graphite, then painted it too. It allows them to see how the bottom is fairing under their fishing conditions. It does give addl. "uv", but again, the bottom sees very little sun. Keep up the fantastic work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks CottonTop

Thank Steven.

Is the primer applied with a roller?


I haven't started looking into the primer process. I have an amazing HVLP set up that I could use too.

However, would I get better adhesion just skipping the primer and putting the final coats onto the bottom with the product mixed in? It seems that the product mixed into the epoxy may be sufficient UV protection as it is. Then I could skip the step. The boat should never see direct sunlight on the bottom especially since it has a reverse chine that wraps all the way from bow to transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:33 am
by Uncle D
Casey, do what feels right for you but when I did mine, Joel said use straight epoxy for primer then graphite.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Casey, do what feels right for you but when I did mine, Joel said use straight epoxy for primer then graphite.
I think I like this bet because then I can skip the primer step.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I was applying more QF and was getting along fine when I decided to shut it down. At that moment it was like all the june bugs in North Dallas decided to fly into the garage and land on the boat. Dern June Bugs. I figure I'll see foot prints all up in my biz tomorrow morning.

Researching Trailers.

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm researching trailers. Horizon is out of business. Coastline is not wanting to return calls. I got ahold of a nice lady, but she didnt have time to talk and quickly got off the phone after taking my number. I left a second message. Maybe they will call back.

So I'm wondering about EZ Loader Trailers. There are two dealers within reasonable distance. Anyone owned one of their trailers? They were very helpful over the phone.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:01 am
by MarkOrge
I got a smokin deal from from my local Pheonix Trailer dealer, but that may not help you at this stage or in your area...FYI

http://www.phoenixtrail.com/

LOVE your boat man,

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:I got a smokin deal from from my local Pheonix Trailer dealer, but that may not help you at this stage or in your area...FYI

http://www.phoenixtrail.com/

LOVE your boat man,

Mark

Thanks Mark. I am enjoying the build.

Being way up there in MI I don't know if it will help. I wonder if they ship to Dallas or have dealer down here. I may try to contact them.

Any one else on EZ Loader trailers?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:28 am
by hooter
flyfishingmonk wrote:Coastline is not wanting to return calls. I got ahold of a nice lady, but she didnt have time to talk and quickly got off the phone after taking my number. I left a second message. Maybe they will call back.
My advice....(for what it's worth) you cannot find a better trailer for the money than Coastline. Fantastic product but I can understand your frustrations. If you persist, you will not be sorry. They are doing trailers for a lot of the Texas boat manufacturers, knocking them out in mass in a couple hours from templates that are all the same. The custom trailer for the "home built guy" is some extra work becuase they have to weld the bunks to match the boat that may be a little different than their "standard trailer". They will do it, but others make you pay out the nose for this service. Why have a trailer that doesn't fit your boat that you have slaved over for years?

Call and ask for MARTY. He is the guy you need to talk to. Owner, operator, can do man. Great product at great price. See also HooterFS18 build for some production pics. You will probably have to load the boat and take it to them for the final custom fit.

And that nice lady you spoke to is quite possible Marty's wife. Try not to piss her off....ask me how I know. That was a close one that almost cost me....ALOT!

hOOt

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
hooter wrote:My advice....(for what it's worth) you cannot find a better trailer for the money than Coastline. ...

hOOt
Hopefully they will call back form Coastline. I will give them another shot if I don't hear from them and will ask for Marty.

I sent emails to six trailer mgfs and Magnum out of Houston got back to me very quickly and was very professional. They offer a saltwater package.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:14 am
by hooter
I can understand your concerns.

I bought coastline through word of mouth from several respected fishing legends.



interestingly....if you can build a boat out of wood, you can build a trailer out of aluminum. The torsion axles are available online (and pretty cheap ~$300-~400 or so). I beam aluminum and square tubing is readily available. SS bolts and brackets are available. A ready made yolk and winch can be bought. Wheels/tires/lights and you're there. You could build one without having to weld a thing. I only bring it up as an option...If I can get a spare minute of time back in my life and start another build, I'll consider doing it myself.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
hooter wrote:I can understand your concerns.

I bought coastline through word of mouth from several respected fishing legends.

interestingly....if you can build a boat out of wood, you can build a trailer out of aluminum. The torsion axles are available online (and pretty cheap ~$300-~400 or so). I beam aluminum and square tubing is readily available. SS bolts and brackets are available. A ready made yolk and winch can be bought. Wheels/tires/lights and you're there. You could build one without having to weld a thing. I only bring it up as an option...If I can get a spare minute of time back in my life and start another build, I'll consider doing it myself.
I think building one would be a lot of fun. I work with a guy here at Gospel for Asia that use to be a professional aluminum welder for the military. I purchased a set of plans for building one as well. I wonder, if after having all of the supplies rounded up, if we could pull it off in a weekend. Hmmm.....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:04 pm
by CraigLam
Or, you can do what I did. Learn how to weld. I went to Cerrito College for one semester and learned how to stick weld. I was "in the same boat" so to speak. Everytime I needed something welded, it cost me a fortune. The small trailer I wanted for my OB 15 was about $3,000 new. Even used ones were very expensive. Finding a friend who can weld is also an option. Unforunately, I didn't know anybody that could. 18 weeks later, I now can stick weld, mig, FCAW, and braze. Not only can I make my own trailer, but, I have alot of projects around the house I need to do. For me to build a custom trailer with all the bells and whistles from soup to nuts, is about $700, tops. Channel steel, axel, tounge, crank, tires, leaf springs, and fenders. Even wiring. Cerritos even has night school. It was a blast.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
CraigLam wrote:Or, you can do what I did. Learn how to weld. I went to Cerrito College for one semester and learned how to stick weld. I was "in the same boat" so to speak. Every time I needed something welded, it cost me a fortune. The small trailer I wanted for my OB 15 was about $3,000 new. Even used ones were very expensive. Finding a friend who can weld is also an option. Unfortunately, I didn't know anybody that could. 18 weeks later, I now can stick weld, mig, FCAW, and braze. Not only can I make my own trailer, but, I have alot of projects around the house I need to do. For me to build a custom trailer with all the bells and whistles from soup to nuts, is about $700, tops. Channel steel, axel, tongue, crank, tires, leaf springs, and fenders. Even wiring. Cerritos even has night school. It was a blast.
Now that does sound like fun. But this dern boat eats all my spare time!! :D

I have access to a new Lincoln mig welder. All I will have to pick up are the parts necessary for making it work with aluminum. Building one sounds like a lot more fun than buying one. So do you know where I can find an adjustable bunk bracket like this one below? Or I may weld the bunks into place, but having them adjustable seems like an easier installation since they just bolt on.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:28 pm
by hooter
http://www.sturdybuiltonline.com/2-inch ... p_707.html
this

plus

1/2 x 3 in Ubolts and some 2 x 2 square tubing, carpeted bunks and...... a custom built trailer is happening.

Of note. I've ben warned that given the flexibilty of aluminum, the weld is the first point of failure. SS bolts used in trailer construction for the crossmembers is a stronger long term solution. I was AMAZED at how much flex there is in a 20 foot section of aluminum I-beam.

also check out http://www.dexteraxle.com/home_ - their marine torsion axle is on my coastline.

hOOt

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hooter,

Very cool. This input is helpful.

The SS bolt construction makes it even easier to assemble.

Maybe I will look into this a little closer. I wonder how I can work around the bending of the I beam on the sides. My buddy said he may be able to bend it, and if it doesn't work we simply cut and weld, assuming I purchase I beams long enough. I could also reinforce it on the back side with a thick long piece of aluminum, bolted into place.

If you have any detailed pics of your trailer I would like to see them.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Maybe I will look into this a little closer. I wonder how I can work around the bending of the I beam on the sides. My buddy said he may be able to bend it, and if it doesn't work we simply cut and weld, assuming I purchase I beams long enough. I could also reinforce it on the back side with a thick long piece of aluminum, bolted into place
Casey, I wouldn't do it. Professional trailer manufacturers bend those aluminum I-beams for a reason, it is better and safer than welding. Keep looking, you will find a trailer :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote:Casey, I wouldn't do it. Professional trailer manufacturers bend those aluminum I-beams for a reason, it is better and safer than welding. Keep looking, you will find a trailer :)
And give up this fast? I did hear back from Magnum in Austin and their price was much more reasonable than the others. No returned call from coastline yet.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:59 pm
by Aripeka Angler
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Aripeka Angler wrote:Casey, I wouldn't do it. Professional trailer manufacturers bend those aluminum I-beams for a reason, it is better and safer than welding. Keep looking, you will find a trailer :)
And give up this fast? I did hear back from Magnum in Austin and their price was much more reasonable than the others. No returned call from coastline yet.
I have been watching your thread, there is no give up in you :) I just think a do it yourself aluminum trailer is not a good idea for a $30,000 dollar custom built masterpiece...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote:I have been watching your thread, there is no give up in you :) I just think a do it yourself aluminum trailer is not a good idea for a $30,000 dollar custom built masterpiece...
Well that's kind of you to say. My father is saying the same thing about buying one and not building one. I guess I should listen to your guy's wisdom. :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:38 pm
by hooter
In my trailer construction, the guys bent the aluminum with a hydraulic wood splitter at the proper point to the proper angle. They have wooden blocks to cushion the wood splitter contact points at the aluminum interface. They apply gentle pressure a little at a time to achive the desired precalcualted bend. check it with a protractor and you have a bent aluminum I-beam...

Not trying to stir the pot, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Did they heat it any?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:44 am
by hooter
negative. no heat. cold bend.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
hooter wrote:negative. no heat. cold bend.
Interesting.

Boy the spread on these aluminum trailers is big. I'm getting 2,600 to 4,200.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:48 am
by topwater
Late to the party and thought i would throw my hat in. I use to weld alum. its not the same as welding steel,
its a whole different animal. You have to be real good at it if you want a strong end product. It takes alot
of practice, and very good equipment. You dont want to breath the gas that is given off when welding alum.
My helmet was supplied with fresh air and over pressure to keep the gas out. The helmet alone cost $ 1500.00
Our welders were set up to weld just alum. Miller pulse migs with push pull cobra guns, very expensive. You
could buy a alum coil gun for a regular welder but its not the same. If you dont do this for a living i would just
buy a trailer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:52 pm
by TRC886
I've never owned an EZ Loader, nor have I ever really checked one out closely, but I've been familiar with the name for many, many years. The ones that I've glanced at did not strike me as especially good or especially bad; they're just "normal" trailers, very similar to others on the market. I don't think that you will be unhappy with one :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:23 pm
by Steven
I priced EZ Loaders and they were more expensive than the custom trailer I bought. Building one was not something I was interested in and I wanted welded Aluminum. Finding one was a pain, but it was worth the work. I would keep looking into coastline. You have plenty of time and I"m sure this is overwhelming busy time for them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:22 am
by CraigLam
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I'm a professional cabinet maker. I've been a C-6 for about 41 years, and I even buy cabinets from Ikea once and a while 'cause it's cheaper than I can make them. Sometimes, like Steven said, if you look around long enough, you can find what your looking for. However, a custom built trailer is second to none. It is exactly what you want. Although, I had to do 18 weeks of school to achieve my cert. Maybe you can pick one up used, and beef it up. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you guys for all the feedback. I have been getting various quotes and will try to get ahold of Coastline again.

I am also going to try to keep an eye out for a nice used aluminum trailer that I may be able to modify.

I did get a quick response from a trailer mfg called Kokopelli out of Phoenix. It sure looks like they make a nice trailer too.

http://www.kokopellitrailers.com/

**New Question**

There is a guy here in town that does fiberglass repair work and gel-coating on boats. He can gel-coat the bottom of my boat at a reasonable cost and then I would do the sanding and buffing on the gel coat to get it nice and shiny.

What do you guys think of gel coat? The sanding sounds like a burden, but supposedly it lasts a really long time.

The rout I am leaning is to complete it with the graphite bottom and take take it to a guy with a paint booth and have him simply paint the bottom with white paint and at that point I wold then flip it onto a trailer. I would then take it back to him to finish painting the sides after I complete the deck. I have a really nice HVLP set up in my shop but am leery to tackle this part. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:37 am
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:Thank you guys for all the feedback. I have been getting various quotes and will try to get ahold of Coastline again.

I am also going to try to keep an eye out for a nice used aluminum trailer that I may be able to modify.

I did get a quick response from a trailer mfg called Kokopelli out of Phoenix. It sure looks like they make a nice trailer too.

http://www.kokopellitrailers.com/

**New Question**

There is a guy here in town that does fiberglass repair work and gel-coating on boats. He can gel-coat the bottom of my boat at a reasonable cost and then I would do the sanding and buffing on the gel coat to get it nice and shiny.

What do you guys think of gel coat? The sanding sounds like a burden, but supposedly it lasts a really long time.

The rout I am leaning is to complete it with the graphite bottom and take take it to a guy with a paint booth and have him simply paint the bottom with white paint and at that point I wold then flip it onto a trailer. I would then take it back to him to finish painting the sides after I complete the deck. I have a really nice HVLP set up in my shop but am leery to tackle this part. :doh:

Gel coat will not adhere to the epoxy. There may be tie coat methods that could work, but why would you want too go that route? Do you just not like the look of a black bottom? I'm with you on the painting. At some point I'm having mine sprayed professionaly. I love the boat building. I hate the painting. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
I guess there must be a coat that ties them together because he has done it before on similar projects. He aparentely has been working with this stuff for 15 years, but I don't think I want to mess with sanding it and buffing it.

As for the look of the epoxy, I do prefer avoiding it and going with just white. That's one reason. That large ominous black object floating over the 200lb tarpon just may spook him off. Thats the second. ;)

However, I am planning to order the white graphite (the substitute discussed a page or two back on this thread) and if it looks good enough then I will simply skip any bottom paint and have the exposed hall above the waterline painted white at the same time I have the sides painted blue. I understand the white graphite is more of an off-white actually.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:56 pm
by Uncle D
Hey Casey, just ran across this, have you tried them...

Tex-All Aluminum Custom Trailers
10549 Commerce Row
Montgomery Tx, 77356
281-802-9151

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:16 pm
by Seadation
Hello Casey,

I will put in my personal endorsement of Magic Tilt trailers. I own two of their WELDED aluminum models at the moment and have found them to be very nice trailers. I just checked their website and they have numerous 'dealers' in TX; not sure if any are in your area...didn't see any with a "Dallas" address. When I was looking for the trailer for my FS14, I told the guy I need a trailer for a v-hull 14' boat that was such-n-such wide...they offered a couple trailer models and prices and that was that. To me, a "custom" trailer is one that is the correct length and width and has the bunks, side guides, and bow stop properly adjusted. Don't get me wrong, I use my trailer EVERY time I use my boat, so I appreciate a nice trailer. Whichever brand you choose, I DO recommend torsion axles if they are available. They give a smooth ride and there are no leaf springs to rust (leaf springs aren't 'galvanized').

I would also put in a plug for a WELDED trailer. I mean no disrespect to owners of bolted-together trailers; they get the job do too. First, fasteners, especially in saltwater applications, will eventually fail (even SS fasteners). Second, a properly-welded joint is more rigid than a bolted joint. You don't see many 'bolted-together' steel trailers. Granted, welding aluminum is entirely different from welding steel, but a trailer company that manufactures aluminum trailers will be set up to properly weld the joints.

Fair winds,

/david

disclosure: I have no financial or other interest in Magic Tilt Trailer or ANY trailer fabrication business :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:58 pm
by dbcrx
flyfishingmonk wrote: The rout I am leaning is to complete it with the graphite bottom and take take it to a guy with a paint booth and have him simply paint the bottom with white paint and at that point I wold then flip it onto a trailer. I would then take it back to him to finish painting the sides after I complete the deck. I have a really nice HVLP set up in my shop but am leery to tackle this part. :doh:
If you've already got the spraying gear why not do the graphite and have a go at spraying the bottom yourself, where it doesn't matter too much if it doesn't come out perfect.

I wouldn't bother with gel coating it, it's too much hassle. Although, all the work is in getting the surface smooth enough to begin with and with sanding/polishing it, so if you do decide to go down this route then why not just apply the gel coat yourself too?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
dbcrx wrote:If you've already got the spraying gear why not do the graphite and have a go at spraying the bottom yourself, where it doesn't matter too much if it doesn't come out perfect.

... if you do decide to go down this route then why not just apply the gel coat yourself too?
Well I dont like doing things twice. I'm good on the trigger of a HVLP gun with laquer and thinner for wood, but I have never tried working with boat paint or gel coat. :?


Uncle D and Seadation
- As for the trailers, I will check out the Magic Tilt and the Tex-All. Thanks for the info!

It looks like the Magic Tilt has two dealers very close to my house.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
by Steven
They Magic Tilt custom adjustable sounds like just the ticket.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:06 pm
by MarkOrge
Just my two cents, why go to the trouble and expense of using epoxy resin then "paint" it with "gel coat" Gel coat is just pigmented styrene resin. The only reason it is even in existense is so that manufactureers can just spray it into t afemale mold, lay up, and pull the part.

Two part marine paints are VASTLY superior the this as a coating, and heck, if you are going to pigment resin make it pigmented epoxy?

I just don't see the logic in apllying an inferior product over a superior product ... gel over epoxy. And as stated, it reall has challenges - epoxy sticks to everything and nothing but epoxy sticks to epoxy !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark - Cuz I'm just maily hearing out ideas about the gel coat and was wondering if anyone had used it. This gentleman who does gel coat sounded so confident that I wanted your guys take on it. He wasnt really trying to sell me so much as he was stating it as an option. He also suggest Awlgrip.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:They Magic Tilt custom adjustable sounds like just the ticket.
Agreed. These Magic Tilt look pretty nice. And being right up the road is super handy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:28 am
by cottontop
Casey, I have an all aluminum Magic Tilt. My OD 18 has been on it for 7 years now. They make a very fine product. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:03 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Steven wrote:They Magic Tilt custom adjustable sounds like just the ticket.
Agreed. These Magic Tilt look pretty nice. And being right up the road is super handy.

IN all my searching I never found them. Definitely would have been closer than Galveston. :) I

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:IN all my searching I never found them. Definitely would have been closer than Galveston. :) I
For sure. I just got off the phone with Phil Dill boats and the salesman was very helpful. He is going to look into pricing for me. Hopefully something works out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:35 pm
by tobolamr
Casey,

Say, I am by NO means trying to stir the pot or anything. I am attempting to seek first to understand, and see what you are thinking about in this matter: Are you trying to achieve a specific finish that can only be done at this point in gel coat? :doh: Or is it just this fellow said "Hey, I do it all the time!" and has experience in that area? Or do you prefer to have someone else do the paint application? Or...?

Who knows - maybe someone has an Epoxy metal flake system now, and someone on the site can teach us about it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey,

Say, I am by NO means trying to stir the pot or anything. I am attempting to seek first to understand, and see what you are thinking about in this matter: Are you trying to achieve a specific finish that can only be done at this point in gel coat? :doh: Or is it just this fellow said "Hey, I do it all the time!" and has experience in that area? Or do you prefer to have someone else do the paint application? Or...?

Who knows - maybe someone has an Epoxy metal flake system now, and someone on the site can teach us about it!
tobolamr - Good questions. I'm just mainly looking for discussion on the topic. I find the different finish options interesting. I most likely will go with painting over the "white graphite" option just so it looks nice (knowing I will get some scratches on the bottom of courses). My goal is white on the bottom, blue on the sides, and white on the deck. Preferably I will find someone with a paint booth to either shoot it for me or allow me to use the booth. Worst case scenario I will put up plastic and shoot it myself. As for the gel coat, I brought it up mainly because this fellows input was interesting and was curious to know if anyone had used it on their boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:36 pm
by tobolamr
Ah, understood. I'm a big "spangly metal flake" finish junkie, so I understand. I have yet to find a company that makes a marine LPU in metal flake like I am looking for. I was just made aware that Awlgrip makes metallics now, so I'm looking that route for top coat just because I want metallic, durnit! :lol:

http://www.awlgrip.com/support-and-advi ... ards.aspx# <--- color chart in metallic

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:14 am
by dbcrx
tobolamr wrote:Ah, understood. I'm a big "spangly metal flake" finish junkie, so I understand. I have yet to find a company that makes a marine LPU in metal flake like I am looking for. I was just made aware that Awlgrip makes metallics now, so I'm looking that route for top coat just because I want metallic, durnit! :lol:

http://www.awlgrip.com/support-and-advi ... ards.aspx# <--- color chart in metallic
Not sure about the awlcraft metallics, but Awlgrip (the marine paints) only have gold and silver and are only a basic metallic not really a metal flake finish. Plus they still have to be clearcoated, so you may as well just use any car metallic paint then use a marine LPU clearcoat over it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
dbcrx and tobolamr - I haven't really looked into the metal flakes. Sounds interesting.

So tomorrow I am ordering yet another batch of Quick Fair. I think Steven was right. I should have ordered 3 gallons! :?

This will be my fourth 3 quart kit and I think it will do the trick because the hull is really taking shape. What's interesting is I don't feel like I am sanding that much off.

New Question: What's the best way to apply the epoxy graphite to the hull, making it nice and smooth? Rollers?

Bonus Question! I am thinking I want to go with the 3M Dry Guide Coat for the next phase of my fairing. Any one used this for identifying low spots?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:56 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote: New Question: What's the best way to apply the epoxy graphite to the hull, making it nice and smooth? Rollers?
roll and tip. be good practice for the topcoat if your going to brush. Keep it thin too. if you get a little dust, bugs etc., Just give er' a light sanding then hit it again. But remember, it's the bottom. :wink:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Bonus Question! I am thinking I want to go with the 3M Dry Guide Coat for the next phase of my fairing. Any one used this for identifying low spots?
Heard it was good, but any ol' can of spray paint lightly applied will do the same. Look at Joel's FS 17 build. Shows it in great detail

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:49 am
by gstanfield
I'm a big fan of the dry coat, it's an improvement over spray paint in my opinion. I have used a lot of the 3M, but lately I have been buying the Mirka which is just as good, but less costly:
Image
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/mirka-d ... 17595.aspx

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:26 pm
by Steven
I used the 3M after trying splatter painting. Dry Guide is the only way to go. In the words of the immortal Tony the Tiger, It'ssss Grrrrreeatttttt!!!!!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:37 pm
by tobolamr
Casey - I'm NOT trying to hijack!!! :help: :D
dbcrx wrote:Not sure about the awlcraft metallics, but Awlgrip (the marine paints) only have gold and silver and are only a basic metallic not really a metal flake finish. Plus they still have to be clearcoated, so you may as well just use any car metallic paint then use a marine LPU clearcoat over it.
I failed Chemistry. :roll: BUT! I thought this was kinda like the whole gel coat discussion - bonding problems between the flake/candy color/epoxy clear coat ??? If you can do that, then please tell me, because I'm ALL over it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey - I'm NOT trying to hijack!!! :help: :D I failed Chemistry. :roll: BUT! I thought this was kinda like the whole gel coat discussion - bonding problems between the flake/candy color/epoxy clear coat ??? If you can do that, then please tell me, because I'm ALL over it!
That's no hijack. I like the different discussion. I may look into it. After being dead set on something like a midnight blue for so long I don't know if I'll venture from it or not.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:13 pm
by tobolamr
Casey, I'm totally not trying to change your course. I'm just trying to get some clarity on this topic. It seems to have been a hot potato of sorts, and there's some general consensus on how to get a good job. But it usually ends up with going to a different paint system that can't achieve the desired look.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey, I'm totally not trying to change your course. I'm just trying to get some clarity on this topic. It seems to have been a hot potato of sorts, and there's some general consensus on how to get a good job. But it usually ends up with going to a different paint system that can't achieve the desired look.
I'm lost... what exactly is the question? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:I used the 3M after trying splatter painting. Dry Guide is the only way to go. In the words of the immortal Tony the Tiger, It'ssss Grrrrreeatttttt!!!!!!!
Excellent. I will order some. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:09 am
by dbcrx
tobolamr wrote:Casey - I'm NOT trying to hijack!!! :help: :D
dbcrx wrote:Not sure about the awlcraft metallics, but Awlgrip (the marine paints) only have gold and silver and are only a basic metallic not really a metal flake finish. Plus they still have to be clearcoated, so you may as well just use any car metallic paint then use a marine LPU clearcoat over it.
I failed Chemistry. :roll: BUT! I thought this was kinda like the whole gel coat discussion - bonding problems between the flake/candy color/epoxy clear coat ??? If you can do that, then please tell me, because I'm ALL over it!
Actually it confuses me somewhat too. I've always been of the opinion that you can't put a 2 part paint over a 1 part paint, and have had issues when trying to do so (but have also done so without problems once), but the metallic base colours are normally a 1 part paint (waterbased), but are then coated with a 2 part clearcoat. Maybe it's because they're now waterbased that it works, but for some reason it does. And in the case of the Awlgrip this is what their system is too, except the clearcoat is polyurethane not epoxy.

Maybe that helps you some?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:10 pm
by tobolamr
Sorry guys - I was rushed and harried at work when I posted that. I now have more time! And I've had more time to become more succinct. :D

So let me ask it like this: So it is chemically and durable to put down S3 Primer, then automotive metal flake finish, and then put the Awlgrip/Sterling/Whichever outstanding Marine clear over the top? Especially if it's water based? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:53 pm
by dbcrx
Yes that should be fine. in my experience you can put pretty much anything on top of an epoxy primer. I haven't actually used a marine clearcoat, but I have used other 2 part clears to cover metallic bases so there's no reason a marine one wouldn't work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
I'm leaning toward the look of just the basic paint.

Steven - Do I have to wait until the primer stage to use the Dry Guide Coat, or can I go ahead and use it during the fairing process? It seems like it will help with both stages and would simply work the same either way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:21 am
by Fishwater
flyfishingmonk wrote:I'm leaning toward the look of just the basic paint.

Steven - Do I have to wait until the primer stage to use the Dry Guide Coat, or can I go ahead and use it during the fairing process? It seems like it will help with both stages and would simply work the same either way.

I'm using it for fairing. Really works well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent. If the dry coat remains in the lowest of places after sanding with a long board, are you hitting these low spots with a steel brush before applying more fairing epoxy, so as to allow the fairing epoxy to adhere to the next layer of cured fairing epoxy and not to the dry coat?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:28 am
by Steven
Until you put on primer, I don't know how you could see it. I've never tried, but with the multicolor coating, I don't think it would be much help. When applied over primer, it looks like you did a charcoal rub. You could use some white spray paint and do a splatter and then a light long boarding. But, if you can't see or feel any depressions, you're probably ready for primer. Immediately after the first coat of primer, do a very close inspection for pin holes. Fill them before proceeding.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thank you Steven. Makes sense. I'll play with it some.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:46 pm
by tobolamr
Thank you guys for putting up with my questions on paint. I'm still a little confused, but I feel that I've been properly educated quite a bit. :D Much appreciated! Now to go make more notes for when I finally get to build something! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:16 pm
by tobolamr
And yes, I'm slow on the draw...

Back on page 192 you were showing off some bass flies you were tying... How much would some of those run a guy to have you tie them up for him in that nice red & black, crayfish, and then black & blue combos? 2 of each? :doh: You can shoot me an e-mail about it - my nick at yahoo.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:And yes, I'm slow on the draw...

Back on page 192 you were showing off some bass flies you were tying... How much would some of those run a guy to have you tie them up for him in that nice red & black, crayfish, and then black & blue combos? 2 of each? :doh: You can shoot me an e-mail about it - my nick at yahoo.
Sorry tobolamr, I have been so busy I haven't been on the forum much. The next time I drag all my tying stuff out and tie I will let you know.

As for the boat. I have made very little progress over the last three weeks. However, I did have a big life change. I finished up several responsibilities at Gospel for Asia and took a position at a firm called Pursuant. I now will be advising several ministries across the country on their communications to sponsors and donors.

This was my first week and I've already been fortunate enough to meet with Dallas Theological Seminary and Wycliffe Bible Translators. So far it seems to be a good fit.

Now that I am settled in I have been able to work two times on the boat since Monday. After I get all of this QF on and sanded down I will put up some pics. I did get my 3M Dry Coat product in the mail a few days ago. So hopefully some progress will be just around the corner.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:20 pm
by tobolamr
Glad to see you're still around! And congrats on the changes! And no problem on the flies - I understand how life gets "busy." That happened to us last week, too...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everybody,

Just touching base with the community.

This weather is hot. The garage is hot.

Ready for September.

I plan to be back on the build then. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everybody,

Just touching base with the community.

This weather is hot. The garage is hot.

Ready for September.

I plan to be back on the build then. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:25 am
by Steven
Summer heat is a killer. I didn't do much work during summers, which does prolong the buid. It's just no fun when the cup starts melting before the epoxy is even fully mixed. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah the work time just gets cut in half. Makes for a lot of unused epoxy,

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah the work time just gets cut in half. Makes for a lot of unused epoxy,

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:32 pm
by tobolamr
Is it at least cooling off by you yet, Casey? We finally got below 90's last week! With evening low's in the mid 40's...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It dipped a little over the weekend. But today is high is 101!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:57 pm
by MarkOrge
OK I don't feel so bad now...nothing done but some sanding here and there on mine through the summer,plus new job with multiple contracts in transiton is soaking up my time. So much for fall launch, but I have another full winter to git 'er done !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My thoughts exactly. What kind of work do you do?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:21 am
by MarkOrge
Facillty Management outsourcing, or the client side but mostly now on the outsourced side. Before this position I did about a year and a 1/2 with a U.S. firm - AMD out of Austin TX, after they bought ATI (graphics cards) In case you never heard of AMD they are Intel's competition for PC boards etc. I have been all around the block with Corporate Real Estate, lots in the airline world. I am now with a medium sized company that is growing gangbusters here mostly in Canada (we are already spreading into the U.S.A. but that end is slow $$) I have Managers overseeing trophy towers, Universities, schools, public housing, you name it and we will triple in size over the next 12 - 18 months.

Not to hijack, but I caught up with my son out west just 5 mins ago on a subject near and dear to your heat - ministries. He is invited to attend, and move on to teach/mentor in a junior position as instructor for a Christian camp for aspiring teenage guitar players. The proffessionals attending are phenominal - people that have played for Elton John, Eric Clapton, referenced by Steve Vai,the list goes on. I am so proud of him - decades ago he and I were clawing our way though life - me as a single parent starting my career over in order to care for him better and he, well, I am just blessed we all survived and he in not only saved, but help me too and he is always in the lead if you know what I mean. Again, sorry for the hijack..but I knew you would like at least some of the history....

We will meet next year !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Facillty Management outsourcing...lots in the airline world.... you name it and we will triple in size over the next 12 - 18 months.

We will meet next year !!
Man that is very cool! Sounds like you are involved in some great stuff. Have you worked much with architects as it relates to airline maintenance facilities? My father use to own, and recently sold, his architect firm in Oklahoma City, Frankfort-Short-Bruza.

He still works there as a consultant and really knows his stuff related to airline maintenance facilities. You two should talk. His firm does work in several different industries. Here is some of their aviation work.

http://www.fsb-ae.com/#markets/aviation ... nce_center.
MarkOrge wrote:
NI am just blessed we all survived and he in not only saved, but help me too and he is always in the lead if you know what I mean. Again, sorry for the hijack..but I knew you would like at least some of the history....

We will meet next year !!
It's no hijack at all. That is very encouraging about your boy and your walk with the Lord. Ain't nothing more important than that. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Finally I have some work on the boat scheduled!

This weekend my dad is coming down to look at the traveling Vietnam Memorial Wall. He is designing a new permanent home for it. It will be located in Enid, Oklahoma. After he sees the wall on Friday he will be heading over to my place to assist me with the boat. We'll be spending two days attempting to tidy up what's left with fairing the bottom. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:04 pm
by tobolamr
Sweet! We are looking forward to PICTURES! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Sweet! We are looking forward to PICTURES! :lol:
You bet I will. I will try to upload some on Sunday evening or Monday.

i just went out there and put in an hour sanding the hull. It's still 90 degrees in the garage.

I am so ready for this hot weather to pass. It looks like cooler temps are coming for the weekend. :D

Here are a few pics of a project I helped a buddy on. He is building a 14 inch telescope (that is the size of the mirror) so I am assisting him with all of the cuts. No epoxy for this project so the heat doesn't create any problems other than being just really uncomfortable. The ring we cut out is for the upper truss assembly. His name is Jon. Good fellow. I plan to recruit him for when we flip the boat.

Image

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Image

I also took advantage of the down time from the boat to improve the intake on my Excursion. I modified the new filter housing to pull from two locations. One behind the fender, still protected, and one from the front, which is where the intake normally pulls from. I just made a large whole in the radiator housing and covered it with stainless steel mesh from the old filter. Now she is ready to pull a boat down the the coast. Another nice thing about this Excursion - No Cat. It came that way and has the sticker under the hood to continually pass inspection. :D

Image

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:29 pm
by tobolamr
No Cat as in No Caterpillar Diesel?

That 7.3L diesel ought to tow the Phantom without even thinking about it. I know my '95 F-150 with a 5.0L doesn't think twice about towing my Procraft 1950V, which weighs in over 3,000Lbs. But hey, what do I know? :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:No Cat as in No Caterpillar Diesel?

That 7.3L diesel ought to tow the Phantom without even thinking about it. I know my '95 F-150 with a 5.0L doesn't think twice about towing my Procraft 1950V, which weighs in over 3,000Lbs. But hey, what do I know? :lol:

Yeah, even without any upgrades it was plenty big. Those motors pull 30,000 plus lbs.

No cat as in no catalytic converter. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Finally a break in the weather. We had record heat this week but today the temp dropped and we got some great work done.

It feels as if we are nearing the end of the faring process. The Quick Fair was easy to work with and not setting up to fast at all. It's amazing how much heat affects the productivity. Here are a couple of pics. Nothing really appears to have changed with the actual build but believe me the low spots are disappearing with every additional, targeted coat of QF. My mom and dad are in the first picture. And that's me and my father in the second.

Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fellow Boat Builders,

I will soon be applying the coat with the graphite in it (actually I think I will be using the white graphite substitute).

How man seal coats of epoxy will I need between the coat with the graphite and the quick fair coat?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:25 am
by Cracker Larry
None really, or no more than 1. You will use at least 3 or 4 coats of the epoxy graphite, that will be plenty.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok excellent. Thank you!
Cracker Larry wrote:None really, or no more than 1. You will use at least 3 or 4 coats of the epoxy graphite, that will be plenty.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I just finished my third fairing coat for the weekend.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I am fast approaching the need for a trailer and was curious to know if anyone knows what a Coastline trailer would run me with the saltwater package. The boat is right at 19 Feet not including the overhang for the deck. I have a call into them and will hopefully hear from them tomorrow.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Another three hours put in on the boat this evening. I ordered more Quick Fair. I am getting better at this fairing. Slowly but surly. Now I have a balance between mixing not to much and not to little and keeping it wet on wet as I make my way down the side of the boat.

I hope to order the trailer in the next few weeks. I will be putting the "white" graphite on it. And off to the races with the inside.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Question: What are you guys doing to reinforce the back side of the bow eye?

I'm thinking something similar to this. I pulled it off of Wadestep's thread.

So now I have 4 layers of smaller biax, followed by 5 layers of 2foot x 1foot biax. Then I'm going to use 3/4" ply backing, followed by stainless steel backing plates, then a washer, then a nut.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:52 pm
by whosmatt
too many clicks... how do i delete this post?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:55 pm
by whosmatt
flyfishingmonk wrote:Question: What are you guys doing to reinforce the back side of the bow eye?

Casey
I don't see a link to what you're referring to, but something like this works:

Image

That's 2 small plates of 9mm ply bedded in epoxy and wood flour. You could swing the boat around in a circle and it would still hold, I think. It's pretty solid.

EDIT: btw that glass isn't dry; it's coated with white tinted epoxy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
whosmatt wrote:too many clicks... how do i delete this post?
Ahh don't worry about it. It's cool.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
whosmatt wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Question: What are you guys doing to reinforce the back side of the bow eye?

Casey
I don't see a link to what you're referring to, but something like this works:

That's 2 small plates of 9mm ply bedded in epoxy and wood flour. You could swing the boat around in a circle and it would still hold, I think. It's pretty solid.

EDIT: btw that glass isn't dry; it's coated with white tinted epoxy.
Ok I see. I was thinking something similar but with maybe with more glass.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:25 pm
by whosmatt
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Ok I see. I was thinking something similar but with maybe with more glass.
I don't really see the need for more glass in this scenario since the force is presumably transmitted in a straight line perpendicular to the bedded blocks. The blocks serve the purpose of distributing the load over a larger area. I am, however, not an engineer or designer so perhaps I'm wrong on this.

Matt

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:18 am
by Cracker Larry
I do it just like Matt.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
That makes sense.

Thanks fellows!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
My next order will be for the following.

http://sandblastingabrasives.com/hexago ... e-781.html

I am getting close to the stage of needing to put on the final coats of graphite epoxy. I still plan on painting it afterwords to make it really shine, but this stuff will be on the bottom for when I scrape through the paint. And since it will be white, maybe the scratch wont be as noticeable.

Casey

P.S. The fairing is coming along nicely and the boat is really starting to take shape.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have selected a trailer mfg. The group I am interested in is http://www.texallaluminum.com/.

The guy has been very responsive to my questions and seems to have a fair price and all the options I want. (removable tongue, aluminum trailer, aluminum bunks, welded bunks, vinyl bunk covers, aluminum wheels, saltwater package, and a pretty good turn around.

I never did hear back from Coastline trailers. I tried 3 or 4 times, both calling and email.

Casey

P.S. I also received my "white graphite."

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:17 pm
by Steven
How will they fit the bunks? Do you have to get the boat to them?

Steven

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

Yep - I will have to get the boat down there somehow. I think I may just roll the stand on a U-hall flat car trailer and run it down to him that way. Then his crew can grab it and flip it there and onto the trailer for the fitting of the bunks.

At least that's what I'm thinking...

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Questions: I was doing some sanding and some surface prep with a metal brush and found three very small spots where the QF had not cured. I obviously did not mix it well enough. There seems to be a balance between mixing it too much and having it heat up and get to tacky, and mixing it too little and having this problem with it not properly curing in a couple places.

So far I don't think I have covered anything tacky with new material because I am careful to sand anything and always hit the discolored areas a little extra to make sure it has cured.

Other than scratching the surface with the head of a screw driver and my fingernails looking for anything at little tacky, are there any other tricks to locating this problem?

If I did cover any tacky spots, will these show them selves and be problematic in the future even with more QF and then the graphite epoxy over it?

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:10 am
by wadestep
Sorry this is about 2 weeks old, but the only reason I reinforced my bow eye to the extend I did is because I plan on towing the boat by it - at planing speed. It is definatly overkill for normal useage of getting on and off the trailer.
I also used an oversized towing eye. All this is not worth the cost/weight if you're not going to be towing your boat on the water, but I needed that spot to be as strong as the transom.
Image
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Wadestep - Makes sense. Thanks for the info!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
A few pics. Almost ready for the white graphite coat on the bottom. Then I'll flip it onto the trailer. That reminds me... I need to order that trailer.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:12 am
by cottontop
Casey you have one fine looking building partner. The boat doesn't look half bad either. John

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
cottontop wrote:Casey you have one fine looking building partner. The boat doesn't look half bad either. John
Thanks John! He's a great kid. Last night he was spiderman for halloween. Good times.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:32 am
by tech_support
super sharp, your going to have a very pretty skiff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
shine wrote:super sharp, your going to have a very pretty skiff
Thanks Joel!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:59 pm
by Steven
Looking sharp Casey. You'll need that bottom protection for sure. I've roughed mine up quite a bit on these rocky shores of ours. If you are planning on installing a Keel Guard, I'd recommend doing so before flipping. Will be much easier that way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Looking sharp Casey. You'll need that bottom protection for sure. I've roughed mine up quite a bit on these rocky shores of ours. If you are planning on installing a Keel Guard, I'd recommend doing so before flipping. Will be much easier that way.
I sure am. However, I will be painting over the bottom after I finish the top. A guy up the road has a cavitator and a paint booth and I plan to hire him to paint it. The cost of him painting it was not all that much more than me ordering the materials and doing it myself. At that point I plan to have him slap on a keel guard. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:05 pm
by AtTheBrink
Looking good FlyFishingMonk! That will be a great boat for you and your family!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:12 pm
by tobolamr
Good to see you back at 'er, Casey! And it looks like your helper was enjoying helping out! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
With my Forgotten Christmas contract complete (here is what the video and website look like this year http://www.forgottenchristmas.org) I now have time to get back to work on the boat. =)

This weekend I applied a little more QF to some spots I am wanted to touch up. I'm almost done with the bottom of the boat and 40% done with the sides.

Today I crawled under the boat and added about a 5 x 5 inch of 12oz glass behind the bow eye so it would be reinforced for the 4 hour journey from the trailer manufacturer back to Dallas. I hope to order the trailer this week, and possibly paint the bottom with the white graphite in the next two or three weeks (it's not really graphite, but the characteristics are similar).

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:53 am
by pee wee
flyfishingmonk wrote: paint the bottom with the white graphite . . . (it's not really graphite, but the characteristics are similar).

Casey

Would you mind sharing with us what it is and why you are choosing it? The boat's looking great, btw.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:35 pm
by Steven
Are you planning on trailering it before getting the framing installed?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote: paint the bottom with the white graphite . . . (it's not really graphite, but the characteristics are similar).

Casey
Would you mind sharing with us what it is and why you are choosing it? The boat's looking great, btw.
Hi Pee Wee - Sorry for the delay. I over looked these responses.

Well I ordered a product called "white graphite" from the following group. https://sandblastingabrasives.com/hexag ... e-781.html I thought I would give it a try. I like that it's why because I want to paint the bottom white, and if I get a scratch I am hoping that this undercoat will not show the scratch as much, since it will be white as well.

Hope that answers your q.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Are you planning on trailering it before getting the framing installed?
Well it will only make the drive from the MFG to the house. At that point I will be installing the stringers and bulkheads a few steps out. I was going to put a few temporary 2 x 4 down the side to stiffen it up, kinda like bulkheads.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:48 pm
by Steven
How are they going to keep it from twisting when fitting for the trailer? Without frames it will be quite flexy, even with the built up chine.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:How are they going to keep it from twisting when fitting for the trailer? Without frames it will be quite flexy, even with the built up chine.
Steven,

Here is what I was thinking for additional support.

I get some of that black foam that they use on copper pipe. Wrap three bulkheads on the edge, where they will meet the inside of the hull. Lay them into position and screw some 2 x 4s on the inside of the hull, up at the sheer and along the length of the bulkhead, to tack the bulkheads into place. I could add a couple diagonals, or one or two going from bulkhead to bulkhead (I have plenty of plywood). I think that would suffice for temporary support for the welding of the bunks and for making the trip too and from the trailer manufacturer.

I will be sticking around the day they weld on the bunks and can double check with the trailer builder that we are square before he proceeds. He seems pretty laid back and willing to help, knowing it's a custom build.

Bad idea? Thoughts?

Casey

P.S. And I will have my dad (architect/engineer) along with me to double check my assumptions too. He's uber-smart - wayyyyy smarter than me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

But then again... the more I think about it, I already have used short 2 x 6s to stiffen the stringers and bulkheads. If memory serves me correctly, every stringer is temporarily screwed to every bulkhead. I had forgotten just how stiff the assembly already is. I think I will just lay the whole bulkhead and stringer assembly into the hull, shoot a could screws through the side of the hull near the top into a block on the bulkhead, throw some ratchet straps around it and head down the highway. With the 2 x 6s holding the stringers and bulkheads together, that boat shouldn't twits on me at all when we fit the trailer to it, and then I can easily check for squareness by measuring the bulkheads.

Here you can see the 2 x 6s between the stringers in front of bulkhead B. The 2 x 6 on the top is receiving screws from both stringers and the bulkhead.I cut them very square with my Dewalt miter saw.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:29 pm
by Steven
After you lift the hull off, grab the back corner of the jig assembly and lift it up. I suspect it will lift, twist, a lot more than you think. There's nothing there to really counteract the torsional force. Screwing it in like you suggest might work well enough though. I've never seen how they fit the boat for a custom trailer. Do they suspend it in a sling and build the trailer to it? When they fit it, use strings to check for twist. From the transom corners across to a point 2/3 or so forward. When the strings just touch at their intersection, you are twist free. If you can crawl under it, mark along the stringers and frames with a sharpie on the hull to mark their positions. It will allow you to get them in their precise location after the flip.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:After you lift the hull off, grab the back corner of the jig assembly and lift it up. I suspect it will lift, twist, a lot more than you think. There's nothing there to really counteract the torsional force. Screwing it in like you suggest might work well enough though. I've never seen how they fit the boat for a custom trailer. Do they suspend it in a sling and build the trailer to it? When they fit it, use strings to check for twist. From the transom corners across to a point 2/3 or so forward. When the strings just touch at their intersection, you are twist free. If you can crawl under it, mark along the stringers and frames with a sharpie on the hull to mark their positions. It will allow you to get them in their precise location after the flip.
They do suspend it above the trailer and then fit the bunks to the shape of the hull. I have lifted it like that before, and you are correct, it does flex easy. I will add these suggestions to my list of "to dos" to make sure it is nice and square. Any other input, please drop it in here.

Thanks!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping the following pics into my thread for future reference for the cut outs of my rod holders.

Image

I got them tack glued into place with epoxy, and a couple of dabs of hot glue on each frame. Tomorrow I'll fillet and tape them in. The hot glue is the ticket, just leave a couple of 1/4" dry spots for the hot glue and coat the rest of the edge with epoxy glue. Stick them in place using squares and whatever it takes to align them, hold it a few seconds, and then you can turn it loose and move to the next one.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Royalties may be involved :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Royalties may be involved :D
When I start mass production I will send your cut. However, at the rate I build thsse things, I suggest not using the funds for retirement planning. :?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:46 am
by Steven
When you flip the hull over will it be going on a Cradle of some sort? Will this be the cradle used to complete the build? If so I would build the cradle upside down on the boat now to get a good fit. When you flip it and put the stringers and frames back in lined up to your marks. Get everything square and twist free. Once you're happy with it, and check that the bottom has not distorted in any way, I woud tack in some small blocks to hold the stringers and frames securely to the bottom. They could be easily cut out with a multi-tool. This way there shouldn't be movement when they suspend it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:When you flip the hull over will it be going on a Cradle of some sort? Will this be the cradle used to complete the build? If so I would build the cradle upside down on the boat now to get a good fit. When you flip it and put the stringers and frames back in lined up to your marks. Get everything square and twist free. Once you're happy with it, and check that the bottom has not distorted in any way, I woud tack in some small blocks to hold the stringers and frames securely to the bottom. They could be easily cut out with a multi-tool. This way there shouldn't be movement when they suspend it.
I am planning on the trailer being the cradle. I will then pull the wheels, fenders and tongue off the trailer so I can get around it to complete the build. I am planning on just dropping the stringers and bulkheads into the boat and screwing them in up high near the shear. The stringers and bulkheads are already screwed together with 2 x 6s cut square on a miter saw. So that whole assembly is very square. There will be foam between the stringers, bulkheads and the hull. Placed there temporarily for the ride there and back. The boat and bulkheads will be suspended above the trailer for the fit of the bunks. The bunks are all aluminum.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping this pic in my thread for future reference. This item looks great. I want to someday build the FS18 and something like this would be fantastic.

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Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Both sides on the bottom of the hull are almost ready for white graphite (HBN Powder).

I have some work to do on the sides (just the 8 to 12 inches from the chine up) and a little on the transom, and I am ready to roll on the 5 coats of white graphite. That is after I sand down the chine and keel nice and smooth and mount in the bow eye. The bow eye should not take much time.

However, I will go slow on the chine and keel. Any suggestions for making a perfect radius, please make them now.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping silentneko's bait well pics in for reference. This is a cool idea and should work well with what I have in mind.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping in this comment for future reference.
SmokyMountain wrote:I did the line drawing. If had to make the gutters again, I would router out the channel as a rectangle and then fill with liquid fiberglass (epoxy & milled fiberglass) and re-router in to the glass to make a completely waterproof channel. It will save a lot of time and pain trying to lay light glass fabric in the channels. As far as performance, I would also put more than one drain hole in each gutter, so the channels won't fill up and drain in the locker. This has happened to mine when the boat is on the trailer sitting on a slight slope.
http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... 9443_1%2F8
wadestep wrote:i did like SmokeyMountain is saying, based on his advice:
Imagewade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a couple questions!

So what your thoughts on the placement of the speakers? I have two that come with my Sonic Hub, which will go with my Lowrance HDS. I was thinking of tucking them up toward the front some place. However, my fuel tanks are just inside the bulkhead at the front of the cockpit. But there may be room for them to be installed there. I don't think I can tuck them up in the corners in the front because of the tubes that receive the tips of the rods. But I may be able to make something work and still accommodate the rod tips.

Another question is fire extinguisher placement? Thoughts on this one? I figure the closer to the console the better. However, if it is customary to be placed some place tucked away, I may just install it up near the front out of the way.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:40 am
by Cracker Larry
Another question is fire extinguisher placement? Thoughts on this one? I figure the closer to the console the better. However, if it is customary to be placed some place tucked away, I may just install it up near the front out of the way.
Casey, I wouldn't tuck it away somewhere, nor would I put it up front, unless there was another one in the stern. You never want to have to cross the fire to get to an extinguisher. If you were in the stern and the console started burning, you might not could get past it to get to the bow. I want mine where I can reach it instantly from the helm.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good. That's what I was figuring but was curious on your take. I think I may tuck it just under the gunnel on the right of the console, easily within reaching distance of the driver and easy to pop out of the holder with one hand.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:35 am
by Cracker Larry
Just make sure that it's visible and that everyone on the boat knows where it is before you leave the dock. As a continued tradition from my charter boat days, I always give newcomers on the boat a short safety tour. Point out the fire extinguishers, the life jackets and throw ring. Show them where the flares and first aid kit other safety gear are stowed, the location of the pump switches and battery switches, and how to work the radio to call for help. The life you save may be your own.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Just make sure that it's visible and that everyone on the boat knows where it is before you leave the dock. As a continued tradition from my charter boat days, I always give newcomers on the boat a short safety tour. Point out the fire extinguishers, the life jackets and throw ring. Show them where the flares and first aid kit other safety gear are stowed, the location of the pump switches and battery switches, and how to work the radio to call for help. The life you save may be your own.
This is very good input for sure. I will do this. Thank you!!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a few pics of the fairing process. The strakes are about done. As is pretty much the rest of the bottom of the boat. Next up I will tidy up the sides. I already have one side in pretty good shape. Then I will round over the keel, chine, and knock down the sharp edge of the transom just a little bit. Then I will install the bow eye and paint on the 5 coats of HBN.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Sweet looking hull Casey 8) You've done a fine job of fairing it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The progress on the sides is coming along very well. Here are a couple pics. In between the groups of tongue depressors I had identified areas I wanted to fill in a little more using a 24 inch knock down trowel up on its edge. Those work very well.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I tell you what, pushing down on the bottom of the hull is not near as bad on the back as pushing into the side. Uhg...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 am
by SmokyMountain
Your absolutely right on that one. Fairing the sheer is a pain on the best of days!! Keep up the good work! 8) Fair small areas at a time. Before you know it you'll have one side done, before you'll have to fair it again 8O .

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some progress I am making on the bow eye. I did not like the original pilot hole location after I faired the bottom of the hull. They were off about 1/16 of an inch. So I filled them and redrilled them.

However, after I drilled the bottom hole for the bow eye, I can tell my positioning on the top pilot hole was still a little off by about 1/16 or so. Since I am fairing the sides I simply filled it again and will redrill the new pilot hole and be all set for making the next hole. Here are the pics. The bottom pic has the new pilot hole. But I filled that one in too, since it is not on the centerline of the top shank of the u-bolt. Tonight I also applied QF to one side of the hull.

In this pic you can see the pilot holes are each about 1/16 to the right of the centerline of the keel. I dyed the epoxy black so it would show up.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Your absolutely right on that one. Fairing the sheer is a pain on the best of days!! Keep up the good work! 8) Fair small areas at a time. Before you know it you'll have one side done, before you'll have to fair it again 8O .
Thanks Smokey!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

Last fall we talked about the round over of the keel. I'm working on that part now. Ho round is round? What is too much and what is not enough. Here is a comment below from last year. Next up will be the chine. I have already knocked the edge off the strakes.

Thoughts on the radius for these?

Casey
Cracker Larry wrote:
I kind of like the round over look and believe it will take more abuse with a little larger round over than with a sharp edge like the chine. Thoughts?
I agree.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:17 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think about 3/8 is a good radius.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the quick response!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Larry - This might not be enough, but what's your take on it?

Casey
Cracker Larry wrote:I think about 3/8 is a good radius.

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Here are a few of the bow eye installation. The one at the very bottom is after I filed on the surface to make it flat. I will clean this back up by applying QF again and sanding it smooth.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
That radius looks fine. I'm wondering why didn't you put the bow eye on the stem?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:04 pm
by AtTheBrink
That is kind of an odd location for the bow eye isn't it? I would think you would want it to be a little higher... could be just me...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker and AtTheBrink,
Cracker Larry wrote:That radius looks fine. I'm wondering why didn't you put the bow eye on the stem?
AtTheBrink wrote:That is kind of an odd location for the bow eye isn't it? I would think you would want it to be a little higher... could be just me...
Fly line has a tendency to fall off, or get blown off, the front of a flats boat. And when this happens, it inevitably seems to find its way around the eye. It's not the hook that catches, but the line. The hook is usually in your hand or in the air. If an anchor is hooked on the bow eye it can be even more frustrating, sometimes getting tangled in the d-ring or the rope. If the fly line drops off, and the boat drifts forward, it will almost always get caught when it is getting pulled back up from under the boat.

So I wanted to position it up as hi as can be. However, the more the eye is set forward, the greater the likelihood of it catching when a few loops of fly line get flung over the front of the boat, so I did not want it set right at the chine, or on top of it, but back a couple inches.

Fortunately for guests who spin fish, they will not have to content with this. But my friends who fly fish will sure appreciate its position being tucked up under the chine like it is. Hopefully this is the sweet spot. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:40 am
by Uncle D
I had to place my bow eye in about the same place. Mostly because on the PH, that was the easiest place to reenforce with backing plates and I don't have the sheer you do at the point of the bow. Fairing looks good and so does your strakes. Especially how they ended at the transom.
Don

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:I had to place my bow eye in about the same place. Mostly because on the PH, that was the easiest place to reenforce with backing plates and I don't have the sheer you do at the point of the bow. Fairing looks good and so does your strakes. Especially how they ended at the transom.
Don
Thanks Don! I am having fun with the build and am glad to be back into it. Your boat is looking great too!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:27 pm
by tobolamr
Casey - it's good to see you moving along again! She's looking better and better every new pic we see!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey - it's good to see you moving along again! She's looking better and better every new pic we see!
Thanks! I can't wait to get this thing flipped.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I was out of town most of last week and before my Saturday evening flight back I was able to fish a pond within walking distance of where I stayed. It was glad I packed my fly rod. A friend of mine took me to the pond. I did not even know it was there. I caught this pig on my 8 weight with a green and white deceiver minnow.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:24 am
by AtTheBrink
Nice bass!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:17 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, that's a fine bass on a fly rod 8) I'm not much of a fly fisherman, but when I do, I usually tie on a deceiver or a clouser. I think those 2 flies will catch about anything that swims.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Yep, that's a fine bass on a fly rod 8) I'm not much of a fly fisherman, but when I do, I usually tie on a deceiver or a clouser. I think those 2 flies will catch about anything that swims.
Thanks! Yeah you gotta love the deceivers and clousers. Those things are easy to tie, easy to cast, and catch fish.
AtTheBrink wrote:Nice bass!
Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:37 pm
by tobolamr
Nice fish porn! Where's the boat porn? :lol: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
yeah I'm hoping to get back out in the garage this week. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello everyone. I am doing some measurements for my trailer. Does anyone know the deadrise on the PH 18 at the transom?

Thanks.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I rounded up about 15 measurements for the trailer manufacturer. Here are a couple pics. I hope to make the order this week.

It looks like the total length of this boat from the edge of the deck at the transom to the edge of the deck at the bow will go about 19" 4" to 19" 6", depending on the deck's overhang.

Anyone know the deadrise of the PH 18?

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
All my measurements are complete and I double checked the COG. It looks like I am ready to get the trailer ordered. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:45 am
by wegcagle
Anyone know the deadrise of the PH 18?
Not the easiest answer, but you could make a right triangle and determine the actual deadrise.

sin (angle you want)= height of the right triangle (opposite)/length from the keel to the chine (hypotenuse)

Will

Edit:

Here's a quick sketch as I am a visual kind of guy

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Excellent! Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The trailer has been ordered. =)

We are equipping it with four aluminum bunks like the ones in this catalog.

http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alumin ... onents.pdf

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
mjxlange wrote:So much negativity today I felt the need to get out of the house, so what better thing to do but work on the boat. Did a bunch of sanding and added what I hope to be the last skim of quick fair. I am going to finish sanding next week give it a coat of epoxy and try to get the thing flipped to start on the inside.
I could not agree more mjxlang. A very sad day. I look forward to working on the boat this weekend with my 4 year old. I'm so glad I have him.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
FREE BOAT STAND!!!

So I am just about to finish up with the bottom of the hull and will be flipping this boat and putting it on the new trailer.

I have a killer boat stand up for grabs!!! If you want it it's yours. I plan to keep the hardware (casters, threaded rods, bolts, washers and pipe) because I want to build a couple more boats in the future, specifically a drift boat and the FS18. This hardware can easily be picked up at Ace, Lowe's or Home Depot.

As is, the boat stand could support any number of hulls between 14 and 21 feet. However, you could easily modify the stand to suite your width and lenght. The stand is micro-adjustable in 6 locations. Here is a blog post I wrote about it back when I had time to blog.

http://www.flyfishingmonk.com/articles/ ... ps-part-1/

Let me know if you are interested. It will be another couple of weeks before I plan to dismantle the whole thing. I have already taken off the front that originally supported the tip of the bow.

Image

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:44 pm
by AtTheBrink
Your garage looks so empty without the boat in there. Did you have to take the boat to the trailer guys?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good question. This pic was taken before I started the boat. Currently it is still on the stand. I hope to take the boat to the trailer guy sometime next week. That is if everything goes according to plan.

Casey

Chase Tubes

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping this in for future reference.

Chase Tubes
wadestep wrote:I would recommend using epoxy/woudflour 'glue' to fasten the chase tubes where they penetrate through the frames. I also foamed the compartments where the conduit is, which will provide support with 100% contact. (ie put the chase tubes in first, and then pour the expanding foam around them.) Finally, I put in about 2-3 extra 'sub-frames' between the stringers where I though the conduit needed extra support - ie runs greater than 3' or any unsupported 90 degree bends.
Try using some scrap 1/2" ply, cutting a hole through it, sanding up some of the conduit, and epoxy gluing it in the hole from both sides. 3 days later, break it apart, see how had it is to do, and see if you are happy. That's how my conduit is installed.

If you want stronger than that, sand the conduit, wrap it in fiberglass/epoxy, re-sand, and then glue that into the plywood hole with extra strips of fiberglass around the joint. That's what I did with my cockpit drains, and it looks nearly indestructible.
wade

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:30 pm
by tobolamr
Casey,

I hope and pray all is well with you and your family!

Say, did you ever get those 5 coats of HBN applied yet? :doh: I am thinking I missed it somewhere. I know your trailer is inbound, so I was curious if I've missed that step or not. I'm also very curious to know how it ends up working out compared to Graphite. Have you put a small test patch on a scratch piece of ply and tried it out at all before coating the hull?

Oh - and do remember to let me know when you're tying up more of those bass flies... I may just request a few, and send a check to you to get me a few made up. I wonder how they'll work up here in "cold water" lakes?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for asking. After a couple of ER visits and a crazy bug that went through the house, we are all doing well. =)

As for the HBN, I have not applied it yet. I hope to in the next week or so. I am just about to wrap up the fairing and then that will be next. I have a few spots on one side of the boat i want to work on.

That reminds me. I need to post a question for Larry regarding the application.

As for the flys, I have not forgotten. Next time I tie some bass flies up you are top of the list. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
And here is the question for Larry.

So when I apply the graphite coat, you suggested wet sanding. However, this will not be the final coat. I am still planning on painting the bottom. So it will still get sprayed with all the necessary coats. With this in mind, how critical is the sanding of the coats of graphite epoxy.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:16 pm
by AtTheBrink
I would sand it down to point where I thought the high build primer would cover any remaining roller stipple/orange peel. It will be a lot easier to sand the.primer than the graphite.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:I would sand it down to point where I thought the high build primer would cover any remaining roller stipple/orange peel. It will be a lot easier to sand the.primer than the graphite.
That sounds like a reasonable idea. I am having it professionally painted so I am sure they will hit the surface with sandpaper one last time as well before they start with the primer.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a few pics of the latest progress.

I will soon be rolling on the graphite and flipping it onto the trailer. A little light sanding on the transom and it will be smooth. The side you see below is pretty much done but needs a little light sanding. The other side is what I am working on now.

The bottom two are of the bow eye. I have been working on the detail of the epoxy that rests just under the stainless steel plate. I used the tape to get the epoxy flat without having the plate stick to the boat.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a question for the group about lamination (I seem to have misplaced my lamination schedule).

When I fiberglass the deck onto the sheer, how many layers of 12oz laps down over the side? Will one layer on the outside suffice? The deck of course will be fixed to the inside of the sheer and the coming as well (I think I have these terms correct). I find it easier to fair with fewer layers.
Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:24 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think one layer is plenty. That's all I've ever used anyway.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:I think one layer is plenty. That's all I've ever used anyway.
Excellent. Thank you!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:28 pm
by tobolamr
flyfishingmonk wrote:Next time I tie some bass flies up you are top of the list. =)
Well it's good to know I'm on someone's list where it's not the s--t list! :lol: Thank you sir! Just e-mail me when it gets close to time and we'll go from there.

Very nice job on the bow eye clean-up. Good ideas.

Glad to hear you are feeling better, too!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Next time I tie some bass flies up you are top of the list. =)
Well it's good to know I'm on someone's list where it's not the s--t list! :lol: Thank you sir! Just e-mail me when it gets close to time and we'll go from there.

Very nice job on the bow eye clean-up. Good ideas.

Glad to hear you are feeling better, too!
Thanks Buddy!!!!

I don't keep a s--t list. I default on the side of grace. Unless we are fishing and you catch a bigger fish then me. Then I'm pissed!!!! :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:47 am
by chopperman
Nice to see your progress. Looking good as always! Merry Christmas :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:55 pm
by SmokyMountain
Casey,

Looking great!! Larry is correct on the deck. One layer biax. I can copy (PDF) and send the lamination schedule if you would like. I have a large format copier at work. I don't think Jacque would mind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
chopperman wrote:Nice to see your progress. Looking good as always! Merry Christmas :D
Thanks chopperman! I'm having a lot of fun. I'll be in your neck of the woods soon working with a ministry down there. I'll send some details via email. Maybe we hook up and chase some redfish!! And Merry Christmas!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
SmokyMountain wrote:Casey,

Looking great!! Larry is correct on the deck. One layer biax. I can copy (PDF) and send the lamination schedule if you would like. I have a large format copier at work. I don't think Jacque would mind.
Smokey,

Thanks! That would be helfpul. Merry Christmas!

Casey

P.S. Did you build a drift boat? If so, which one? I would like to build one of those sometime in the future.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am now Yeti equipped. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:46 am
by Southern Gent
Casey, a Yeti cooler and a new Aluminum Trailer, Santa was good to you., Bill

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Southern Gent wrote:Casey, a Yeti cooler and a new Aluminum Trailer, Santa was good to you., Bill
Agreed!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am picking up the temp trailer tomorrow and hope to find time to take the boat to the trailer mfg in the next few weeks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:21 pm
by Steven
flyfishingmonk wrote:I am now Yeti equipped. =)

Nice. I want to get one for in front of my console. We need to hook up for a day on Texoma chasing Stripers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't keep a s--t list. I default on the side of grace.
I like that. My New Year's resolution :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:
I don't keep a s--t list. I default on the side of grace.
I like that. My New Year's resolution :D

Good Call!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:I am now Yeti equipped. =)

Nice. I want to get one for in front of my console. We need to hook up for a day on Texoma chasing Stripers.
Steven,

I would love to! Let's plan to get out on that nice new boat of yours!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I picked up the trailer today for taking the boat down to the manufacturer.

Now I just need to find a day that works for getting down there.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:11 pm
by AtTheBrink
Casey, are you going to Seadrift for a Coastline trailer?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:Casey, are you going to Seadrift for a Coastline trailer?
Mike,

I ordered a Tex-All Aluminum trailer from Montgomery TX. This temporary trailer he lent me sure seems nice.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:19 pm
by AtTheBrink
Did they come in under Coastline on price? I might have to check them out and get a price from them.

Looked at their website, looks like they do good work. Nice of them to lend you a trailer!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:Did they come in under Coastline on price? I might have to check them out and get a price from them.

Looked at their website, looks like they do good work. Nice of them to lend you a trailer!
I was never able to get a price from Coastline. They never would call or email back. I tried calling two or three times and emailed two or three times. I did talk to one woman for about two minutes and she had to go and said she would call back but never did. Coastline looks to have a fine trailer. However... I eventually had to give up.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:34 pm
by AtTheBrink
Sounds like a good reason to shop elsewhere to me. I would have done the same thing. I am a stickler for service too. Anyway, these guys are a lot closer to you, so you'll save money on gas. These days, that ain't chump change... I'm still a ways away from buying a trailer. I have a galvanized trailer I am going to use for a while.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
I tried to round up a free one my buddy had on his land but it didn't happen. However, he did give me a very old Mercury 90hp motor that I looked to overhaul but it was simply too shot. So I sold it on CL for $250.

I suppose this new trailer will be amazing. We went with every option. Even the one he dropped off for me to use to bring him the hull is nice. My wife said, "If the trailer he lends out is this nice, I imagine the one you ordered is really going to be amazing."

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The last little bit of QF went down on the bottom of the hull today. The sides are about 60% done as well as the transom. What remains for the QF for both the sides and transom will be applied after the deck is installed.

Next up are the four coats of white graphite for the bottom of the hull. The trailer is ready, all except for the aluminum bunks which we will get custom welded to the hull next weekend.

I'll work on getting some pics loaded up. :)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are two pics the trailer mfg sent me.

Since we are working with such a tight space (two car garage) for such a large boat, we put the winch on the swing tongue to shorten the overall length of the trailer as much as possible.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got my second coat of white graphite down tonight. It seems as if the small foam rollers puts the product down much smoother than the yellow short nap epoxy rollers. But I will be able to tell more when it cures.

I used a yellow roller for the first coat and it worked but it was a tad bumpy. Not much though. I sanded down the little bumps. The yellow rollers seem to hold up better than the foam. I went through two yellow rollers the first coat and three foam rollers for the second coat. Both were coming apart on me.

Man this epoxy with the hexagonal boron nitride is hard stuff. I sanded the first coat with 100 grit paper and it ate it up like nothing. The paper was shot in no time. I picked up fifty 150 grit pads for my orbital sander to use for the next coat or two and an additional 20 pads of 220 for the final coat. After that I will leave it for the painter to block sand with 320 before he sprays it.

What I like is this white graphite is not messy at all. And I do I have to strain it. I just simply pore it into part A, mix thoroughly, and then pore part B in to complete the mix. Any small clumps that roll on I simply smash with my finger and roll over them another pass or two and they totally disappear.

There was a piece of left over epoxy that cured. It was about 1/8th inch tick and about 1/2 inch long. I tried to break it but couldn't. It's some strong stuff.

I'll post up pics soon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:55 am
by jorgepease
I am curious has anyone tried using lambswool pads to spread the epoxy? That's what I used to use when applying poly to floors.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:22 am
by MarkOrge
Stupid question - white pigment with epoxy for bilge paint ? I ask because I bought some pigment for this particular reason...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
jorgepese

I have not head of anyone using that product before. The rolling action makes it nice and consistent but I suppose anything is worth a shot.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

I think that is a great question. I'm planning on trying to pick up some white pigment to tint the next two or three coats of this product. The HBN is white but not as white as the pigment will be. So I think the pigment will be a good addition.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:40 am
by Southern Gent
Lambskin for Poly floor finishes and working 2 part epoxy finishes appear different to my view.

I too did Floor work for years using Lambskin ( Throw it in a bucket of thinner , wring it out the next day and back to work )

Most of us throw away the rollers and brushes used with epoxy, too expensive to clean up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Very good point. It seems like it may leave streaks too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does anyone know if the West System pigment is compatible with System Three Laminating Epoxy?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:38 pm
by AtTheBrink
You are painting over this right? Why add the pigment? I remember reading somewhere on here that the pigment can weaken the epoxy by like 5 or 10%. Just something to think about.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thats a good point. I spoke with the West System tech support and they said it reduced the strength by less than 1/2 of percent.

The reason I was considering it was if I scratch through the white paint then at least the undercoat would be white. However, since I don't have any System Three pigment I may hold off and just go with the natural off white color of the HBN.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress. Photos 1 through 7 are the White Graphite coats. No pigment was added. White pigment would have really made the bottom look great but this hull will eventually get painted. The remaining pics are of the final fairing stages on the bottom of the hull. I have one more coat to put on tomorrow night and then it will get custom fit onto an aluminum trailer on Sunday.

I ended up going with a 1/4 round over for the chine and where the transom meets the sides and a 1/8th round over for the strakes. The transom has more of a 1/16th on the bottom.

Higher rez photos are in the gallery. http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=1227

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:00 am
by Southern Gent
Casey, That is looking so good. I too like the "White Graphite ". I have changed my mind a couple of time on my deck color but i'm still going with a white hull.

Keep up the good work

Work Safe

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:40 pm
by MarkOrge
She is gorgeous ! Nice clean straight lines !!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks MarkOrge and Southern Gent!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:41 pm
by Uncle D
Looks great Casey, nice shiny hieny. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:52 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:
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Wow 8O are you sure you are not a real monk?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Peter-Curacao,

My wife probably thinks I am since she hasn't seen me all week!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:30 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:Peter-Curacao,

My wife probably thinks I am since she hasn't seen me all week!

Casey
Rofl I meant because of the very nice and patience work you do! ahh you know that! 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
:D
thank you sir!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:00 pm
by AtTheBrink
Very pretty work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Mike!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got the fourth and final coat of White Graphite on today This stuff would have looked great with white pigment in it. Another builder who doesn't plan to paint is definitely going to have to try it. The final coat will be dry by tomorrow and I plan to flip it tomorrow afternoon and place it on the trailer.

I'll make sure to get pics.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:58 am
by Southern Gent
Casey, It's probably Time to take the Wife out to dinner. But the Real question is How much ( Beer, Coffee & Lemonade ) does it take to get your Flipping Crew on Site?

Work Safe

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Southern Gent wrote:Casey, It's probably Time to take the Wife out to dinner. But the Real question is How much ( Beer, Coffee & Lemonade ) does it take to get your Flipping Crew on Site?

Work Safe
Good point. I do need to take her some place special.

As for the flipping crew, I just called them and told them not to worry about coming over. My father and I managed to flip the boat with it still in the garage. We suspended it from the rafters and flipped it over like a rotisserie chicken. It worked great. Now we are headed over to get the temporary trailer to roll under the boat. Then we will lower it down onto the trailer. :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
So we got her flipped with just my dad and I. (Dad's idea of course - smart fellow) We took a rod and clamped it to the transom and ran a strap over a 2x4 into the attic. We took another strap and ran it through the bow eye and up over the bracket that held the garage door spring onto the header. We supported this area with an extra piece of plywood. We then lifted the boat with one of us pulling down on the strap and one of us pulling up on the boat. It was pretty easy to lift it and roll the stand into the driveway. I figure the whole boat weights about 200 lbs at this point.

Once in position we rolled it like a chicken on a rotisserie. The boat was about 1/2 inch wider than the clearance between the floor and the garage door but it flexed so easily on the edge of the sheer that it rolled over nicely. We then began to roll the trailer up into the garage in preparation for lowering the boat onto the trailer. At that point, three of my friends that did not get the memo that they were no longer needed for the flip, arrived. I held onto the thick yellow webbing as we lowered the boat square onto the trailer and "presto" we were ready for the road. We shored up a few places on the trailer with some foam and duct tape for it to better cradle the hull. Remember this trailer is just a loaner to get us to the manufacturer so it wasn't a perfect. We also adjusted the wench as well.

Since my three friends were there still wanting to help and had missed the grand flip, I put them to work disassembling the boat stand and it was done in about 15 minutes. It's loaded on the Excursion now and will be going to Will's.

Here are some pics.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:16 am
by Boater45
Congrats on the filp!!

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:57 am
by Cracker Larry
Well done! That attic access hatch was in just the right spot 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:26 am
by peter-curacao
Congratulations and thanks for the cool pics 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:06 am
by wegcagle
Congrats :!: The boat sure does look big on the inside after the flip doesn't it 8)

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:22 am
by MarkOrge
Will is right - a whole new perspective.

Way to go Casey. On your previous slides I was admiring how straight and true the lines were along the chines and strakes - your patience and attention to detail really show !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:56 pm
by AtTheBrink
Good job on the flip! Now the real fun begins! You get to make it look like a real boat.

What does the back of t-shirt you were wearing in those pictures say? Can a Water Buffalo plant a church?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:55 pm
by Joe H
Congrads on the filp, nice looking family.

Joe H

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:17 pm
by willg
I met Casey, his dad and son today as he was getting his trailer fitted. Let me tell you, the hull is flawless and looks as good as you might expect from the pictures. Beautiful, precise craftsmanship. It was also nice to meet three fine gentlemen!

I now have Casey's boat stand and will either use it myself or will help get it to anyone who may be interested in it, just let me know. I am in The Woodlands, TX.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:27 pm
by Southern Gent
Casey, You and your Dad did a great flip. Man what a great looking rig. Work Safe

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:23 pm
by chopperman
Casey,

Congrats on the flip :!: Your hull looks great 8) I'm sure you were relieved to get the hull safely on the trailer.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:30 pm
by Hope2float
Great pictorial of the flip, nice family and good memories to have with your dad. You will never forget that one.
Dave

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Well done! That attic access hatch was in just the right spot 8)


Thanks Larry. It was a very handy placement for sure.
peter-curacao wrote:Congratulations and thanks for the cool pics 8)


You bet Peter. I have enjoyed your build as well!
wegcagle wrote:Congrats :!: The boat sure does look big on the inside after the flip doesn't it 8)

Will


You are correct. It looks huge. There will be tons of room for gear!
Boater45 wrote:Congrats on the filp!!

Will
Thanks!!
MarkOrge wrote:Will is right - a whole new perspective.

Way to go Casey. On your previous slides I was admiring how straight and true the lines were along the chines and strakes - your patience and attention to detail really show !
Thanks Mark. Hopefully the deck and sole will look as good as the hull.
AtTheBrink wrote:Good job on the flip! Now the real fun begins! You get to make it look like a real boat.

What does the back of t-shirt you were wearing in those pictures say? Can a Water Buffalo plant a church?
Thanks for the compliment! The back of the shirt says Gospel for Asia, a ministry my wife and I have supported for years. They work among the poor in Asia. There are dozens of cool gifts donors can purchase that are given to those in need. The missionaries of the organization find people that will be good recipients of the charity (those in really bad situations) and in doing so oftentimes have an opportunity to share about the love of Christ. One water buffalo can impact a whole family much like a good education can here in the west. Here is a video I did the voice over for that explains it. https://www.mygfa.org/p/choose/waterbuffalo/ However I noticed a glitch in the narration. I notified the ministry to see if the can fix it. :D
Joe H wrote:Congrats on the flip, nice looking family.

Joe H
Thanks Joe! They are wonderful.
willg wrote:I met Casey, his dad and son today as he was getting his trailer fitted. Let me tell you, the hull is flawless and looks as good as you might expect from the pictures. Beautiful, precise craftsmanship. It was also nice to meet three fine gentlemen!

I now have Casey's boat stand and will either use it myself or will help get it to anyone who may be interested in it, just let me know. I am in The Woodlands, TX.
Thanks Will! We enjoyed meeting you and getting to hang out. I hope you get to build your boat.
Southern Gent wrote:Casey, You and your Dad did a great flip. Man what a great looking rig. Work Safe
Thanks Southern Gent!!!
chopperman wrote:Casey,

Congrats on the flip :!: Your hull looks great 8) I'm sure you were relieved to get the hull safely on the trailer.
Thanks Mark!!!!
Hope2float wrote:Great pictorial of the flip, nice family and good memories to have with your dad. You will never forget that one.
Dave
Thanks Dave! I look forward to making more memories with him out on the water. As he drove back to Oklahoma he said I'll see you when you are ready to paint it. Of course I hope to get him down here sooner to help me with some of the inside of the boat. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
The trek down near Houston to pick up the trailer went well. Here are some of the pics. I am pleased with the trailer. The reason the one center bunk is offset is to work around the high speed pick up. The last picture is a good shot of the folding tongue.

Next I am going to pull off the wheels and fenders and tongue and put the two I beams under four adjustable jack stands. The beams will then be leveled with a water level.

Then I am going to block the hull up from the trailer to get it up off the bunks. I will place the blocks on top of the aluminum I beams and directly under the chine where it is as hard as a rock and will not shift the hull any or create any flat spots. The suspended hull will then be ready for the glass, stringers and bulkheads. At that point I will rest it back down on the bunks and make any necessary bunk adjustments with stainless steel washers.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:04 am
by AtTheBrink
Nice trailer! I like the pictures of your kids walking around in the boat, cute kids!
Thanks for explanation of your t-shirt, that sounds like an awesome mission you are involved with. What church are you with up there?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Mike! We attend Centennial Curch in Frisco TX and love it. It's the perfect size and they have sound teaching. I actually worked for Gospel For Asia for four years and really enjoyed. They do some great work. The church we attend does a lot of work in Haiti with schools and orphans. It's pretty cool. Here in a few days I'll be giving some seminars and workshops at New Tribes Missions. They are a great organization as well. They work in some incredible areas of the world too. I may even get to fish a 1/2 a day while I'm at it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:28 am
by Uncle D
Lookin' real good Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:Lookin' real good Casey. :D
Thanks Don!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I spent a few mins in the garage and removed the fenders and steps on the trailer to get them out of the way. 15 more minutess and the break lights will be removed as well. One bolt for the swing tongue and 4 bolts for the axel and I will be able to work around the boat without anything in the way.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:31 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice looking trailer, Casey 8)

I would consider removing the wheels also to lower the working height. It's going to be real tough on the back, leaning over the boat to do all the glass work, stringers, frames and such. That, or build a scaffold all the way around it. That's what I did with the FS18 using concrete blocks and boards. You will make a million trips up and down though.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 am
by Uncle D
Cracker Larry wrote:Nice looking trailer, Casey 8)

lower the working height. It's going to be real tough on the back, leaning over the boat to do all the glass work, stringers, frames and such.
X2 After my flip, it seemed the inside got wider. I'm 6'-5" and lowering my strongback all I could, I still had a hard time bending and reaching.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Nice looking trailer, Casey 8)

I would consider removing the wheels also to lower the working height. It's going to be real tough on the back, leaning over the boat to do all the glass work, stringers, frames and such. That, or build a scaffold all the way around it. That's what I did with the FS18 using concrete blocks and boards. You will make a million trips up and down though.
That is what my father is encouraging as well. What do you think of raising the boat up to a level that is more like a work bench? This boat is not as deep on the sides as "No Excuse."

And then stepping on the tire to walk into the boat to work on the inside.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:
Cracker Larry wrote:Nice looking trailer, Casey 8)

lower the working height. It's going to be real tough on the back, leaning over the boat to do all the glass work, stringers, frames and such.
X2 After my flip, it seemed the inside got wider. I'm 6'-5" and lowering my strongback all I could, I still had a hard time bending and reaching.
What about it being higher and then I can reach the inside of the chine in a standing position and can walk into the boat to work on the inside.

Remember... I'm only 36 too. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:14 pm
by Cracker Larry
And then stepping on the tire to walk into the boat to work on the inside.
Do you realize how many thousands of trips you will make up and down that tire, carrying tools and materials :?: :help:

I'd lower the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:47 pm
by AtTheBrink
Cracker Larry wrote:
And then stepping on the tire to walk into the boat to work on the inside.
Do you realize how many thousands of trips you will make up and down that tire, carrying tools and materials :?: :help:

I'd lower the boat.


My boat has almost no sides and is a lot narrower than yours and lowered my strongback down to 18" from 24" and I wish I had gone down as low as 12". And I have the most screwed up back in the country. You wont regret lowering it, if you use jackstands you can adjust it to you liking.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is what my father is encouraging as well.
Thoughts?
Your father is a smart man, you've said so yourself :D

Remember... I'm only 36 too.
With age comes wisdom, and really sore backs :D Listen to us old men, have I ever steered you wrong? You've got a year's work ahead inside of that boat, make it easy on yourself now :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds great gentlemen. I'll see if I can pull the whole axel.

Thank you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
I looked a little closer at how the torsion axel is constructed and it does not hang near as low as I thought so I will keep it on. =)

I rearranged the garage tonight and moved the table saw and the work bench in preparation for cutting strips of wood for the sheer.

Next up is to pull the tires/wheels and lower the boat as suggested.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:02 am
by Boater45
If you have the space it might be more practical to build a movable working platform....just my .02$

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Boater45 wrote:If you have the space it might be more practical to build a movable working platform....just my .02$
Oh man the space is tight. 2 car garage with a 20 foot boat at an angle and surrounded by wood working equipment (table saw, router table, drill press, band saw, lathe and a work bench).

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:22 pm
by tobolamr
I'll believe it when I see it... (picture request, if you would be so kind, if you please!) :wink: :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:I'll believe it when I see it... (picture request, if you would be so kind, if you please!) :wink: :D
Picture of which part? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:47 pm
by tobolamr
The whole full garage! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:10 pm
by AtTheBrink
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Boater45 wrote:If you have the space it might be more practical to build a movable working platform....just my .02$
Oh man the space is tight. 2 car garage with a 20 foot boat at an angle and surrounded by wood working equipment (table saw, router table, drill press, band saw, lathe and a work bench).

Casey
I feel your pain Casey! I am building mine in a single car garage! Tight work space is an extreme understatement!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:The whole full garage! :lol:
You got it! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:
Boater45 wrote:If you have the space it might be more practical to build a movable working platform....just my .02$
Oh man the space is tight. 2 car garage with a 20 foot boat at an angle and surrounded by wood working equipment (table saw, router table, drill press, band saw, lathe and a work bench).

Casey
I feel your pain Casey! I am building mine in a single car garage! Tight work space is an extreme understatement!
Oh man yeah. I took the fenders and the break lights off the trailer. They just looked like an accident waiting to happen. Next up will be to remove the swing tongue.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:38 pm
by AtTheBrink
Kinda funny how those guys just put in all those hours of hard work to build your trailer and now you are taking it apart. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:18 pm
by TRC886
flyfishingmonk wrote:And then stepping on the tire to walk into the boat to work on the inside.
I would not do this :help: Years ago, I was standing on the front tire of a large tractor, checking the coolant level. When finished, I kept a firm grip on one of the front end loader arms until I (thought I had :roll: ) my foot firmly planted on the ground. As I continued stepping down, I found that my foot was actually inside the tire rim, and I twisted my ankle very badly :oops: I was limping for months :help:

Next up is to pull the tires/wheels and lower the boat as suggested.

Casey
Smart man :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:Kinda funny how those guys just put in all those hours of hard work to build your trailer and now you are taking it apart. :D
You know when I was pulling the fenders I had that very thought.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TRC886 wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:And then stepping on the tire to walk into the boat to work on the inside.
I would not do this :help: Years ago, I was standing on the front tire of a large tractor, checking the coolant level. When finished, I kept a firm grip on one of the front end loader arms until I (thought I had :roll: ) my foot firmly planted on the ground. As I continued stepping down, I found that my foot was actually inside the tire rim, and I twisted my ankle very badly :oops: I was limping for months :help:

Next up is to pull the tires/wheels and lower the boat as suggested.

Casey
Smart man :!:
Ouch!!!! That's reason enough to put it on the floor!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:The whole full garage! :lol:
It's a tight fit but manageable. I moved the table saw from the back right to the front left so I can rip sheets of plywood and strips of lumber for the sheer.

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Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Next up (after dropping the trailer as low as I can, and crawling on the inside to sand the wood and fillet keel, I'm going to suspend the hull above the bunks 1/2 inch to laminate the inside with 12 oz glass. The reverse chine is so strong I will raise it and level it at four points (two at the transom and two 2/3rds toward the bow). This will eliminate any flat spots or deformed areas on the hull that the bunks may be creating.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:06 am
by wegcagle
Looks good Casey.

Before you start fiberglassing the insides, I would temporarily put in your bulkheads, and put a few straps across the sides. If you let the boat sit for a while without stringers and bulkheads it has a tendency to sag outward.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
wegcagle wrote:Looks good Casey.

Before you start fiberglassing the insides, I would temporarily put in your bulkheads, and put a few straps across the sides. If you let the boat sit for a while without stringers and bulkheads it has a tendency to sag outward.

Will
That makes a lot of sense. I will do that.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am
by wegcagle
Here's a picture of how CL supported the sides before putting in the frames/stringers on the FS18. For a visual.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=750

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:08 pm
by Uncle D
I'm not sure if you are able to use the bow frame on your modified PH but regardless, make sure your bow isn't drooping cause it will, I know :oops: unless you want it to. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
wegcagle wrote:Here's a picture of how CL supported the sides before putting in the frames/stringers on the FS18. For a visual.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=750

Will
Uncle D wrote:I'm not sure if you are able to use the bow frame on your modified PH but regardless, make sure your bow isn't drooping cause it will, I know :oops: unless you want it to. :wink:
You both make great comments. Regarding the sides, I have some orange straps that should help with this. Fortunately there is not a lot of flex because the side of the boat drops down below the chine three inches to create the reverse chine. The excess wood and epoxy used in the chine holds the sides in place very securely and appears to have eliminated any bow droop as well.

Here are a couple shots of the laminates that stiffen both the sides and the bow. And then the addition of the five layers of fiberglass around the chine (three layers of tape and two layers of lamination) also create some serious stiffness. However, I will check both of these items you guys suggest.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:21 pm
by tobolamr
Thanks for the garage pic, Casey. It looks packed in there!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Thanks for the garage pic, Casey. It looks packed in there!
I can't buy anymore power tools! They won't have a home.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:57 am
by tobolamr
Oh no, I see spots for a few more tools to go... :wink: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Oh no, I see spots for a few more tools to go... :wink: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I had an opportunity to have dinner with Mark and his wife. He showed me several things on his PH18 and I learned a lot. It was a great evening of "boat talk". Thanks Mark.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:25 pm
by AtTheBrink
Casey, you didn't happen to catch the color of his boat did you? Is that Sterling "Sky Blue"? If it is, that settles my paint color.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:Casey, you didn't happen to catch the color of his boat did you? Is that Sterling "Sky Blue"? If it is, that settles my paint color.
I believe it is Jay Gray. http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/Sterl ... _chart.pdf

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:54 pm
by AtTheBrink
I am going back an dforth between those two colors. I haven't seen a boat painted in sky blue yet so I can't make up my mind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:I am going back an dforth between those two colors. I haven't seen a boat painted in sky blue yet so I can't make up my mind.
Decisions Decisions.

I can say this. His paint job looked fantastic!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:31 pm
by MarkOrge
Heh Casey, here is a site that helped me come up with my plan (90% sure anyway)

It is Sterling Flats boats. The look close to a Phantom and you just select the "colors" link and you can see the boat with almost 20 different colors on the side.

http://www.americanmarinesports.com/ams_Sterling.html

cheers,

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:59 pm
by jorgepease
great link, I needed this too

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Heh Casey, here is a site that helped me come up with my plan (90% sure anyway)

It is Sterling Flats boats. The look close to a Phantom and you just select the "colors" link and you can see the boat with almost 20 different colors on the side.

http://www.americanmarinesports.com/ams_Sterling.html

cheers,

Mark
Very Cool!

I'm digging the Cobalt Blue. The plain black looks cool too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:40 pm
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote:
AtTheBrink wrote:I am going back an dforth between those two colors. I haven't seen a boat painted in sky blue yet so I can't make up my mind.
Decisions Decisions.

I can say this. His paint job looked fantastic!
Some time back that is what I ordered, Jay Grey and I'm going with the grey Kiwi-Grip too. Hey Mark, ready to paint another Phantom?? :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That jay gray is very nice looking color.

I dropped the trailer down a lot and pulled off the axel so it does not stub my toes. I removed the swing tongue and wench as well. The trailer is I placed the two trailer tires at the transom and have a pice of plywood I will place on top of them to create a nice step.

The boat is low enough to step over the side and up into the hull. But it is still uncomfortable. The plywood and tires will allow me to easily step over the transom and into the boat. What I like about the current height is the trailer is still off the ground a few inches, which lets me slide wood under it to store. And this places the gunnel at a comfortable height to work on.

Next I am going to lightly sand the inside of the hull and fillet the chine, transom and keel.

Then I'm going to suspend the boat up off the bunks a half inch or so by supporting it at four points along the chine, two on each side. At that point I will proceed with glassing the inside of the hull. This will keep me from having any flat spots created by the trailer's weigh resting on the bunks. The boat is so light it's easy to lift with one hand to allow me to slide 2x4s on top of the trailer's I-beam to raise the boat above the bunks.Two 5 inch 2x4s stacked flat and a little foam and the boat is up off the bunks.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:50 pm
by MarkOrge
Casey - hope this is not a hi-jack....

Uncle D - I haven't started to paint - so I'll take that as a compliment to my primer ?? :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Doesn't bother me any. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
I began sanding the inside of the hull last night. It's coming along nicely. I figure another 2 hours of sanding, and some light grinding, and I will be ready to begin the fillet and epoxy.

After flipping it I could get a little better look at the 12oz used for the hull splices and I see a few air pockets that I will need to slice up and fill with epoxy. Then to the fillets.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I took a dermmel to the handful of air pockets I saw on the splice on the inside of the hull. I completed the sanding and will take a metal brush to the cured epoxy (splices and area to receive the fillet) and then I will be ready to vac out the inside of the hull and begin the process for glassing the inside.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are the latest pics.

The one with the duct tape is covering the fiberglass lamination on the outside of the hull. This is where the transducer will go.

The pic with the I-beam of the trailer is of the screw adjustable jack stand I used. I have four of them. Something I rounded up from my father's garage. I would not trust a car on them. One of them has already begun to collapse. But they work great for the trailer. You can see in the pic the axel has been removed, same for the fenders, the guide poles, and the light brackets have been turned to the side.

The last one is of the step I made to get in and out of the back of the boat.

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Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:50 am
by AtTheBrink
You got Superman working on your boat!?!? You'll be finished in no time!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:You got Superman working on your boat!?!? You'll be finished in no time!
He's a good little helper.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question regarding the lamination schedule for the boxes.

It says the following:

"Tab stringers and bulkheads to hull with biaxial tape on putty fillets." That part I got. It's this line...

"Cover inside of stringer boxes with fiberglass at keel, overlap chines, cover stringers to the top."

So does that mean cover each box with fiberglass, or only the center ones that are adjacent to the keel? That is what the photo looks like. But the "at keel" part is throwing me.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I epoxied the chine and keel on the inside of the boat to seal the wood in preparation for the EZ Fillet

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:12 pm
by Uncle D
I was confused by that too. I can't remember the reply I got but post that in the "power boats" section for JM.
What I did was glue and tape the stringers (twice because I didn't read the plans correctly :oops: ) and then covered stringer and bulkheads in cloth completely. I covered everything because I wanted to though. Supersealed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:I was confused by that too. I can't remember the reply I got but post that in the "power boats" section for JM.
What I did was glue and tape the stringers (twice because I didn't read the plans correctly :oops: ) and then covered stringer and bulkheads in cloth completely. I covered everything because I wanted to though. Supersealed.
So I understand that I am to tape them once and then cover the excess exposed wood, going back over the tape, with a larger sheet of cloth. Does that sound correct? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:38 pm
by Uncle D
It's been too long for me to remember Casey. But check with JM or Joel. I don't think you would have to cover everything in cloth, that's just what I wanted to do.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:It's been too long for me to remember Casey. But check with JM or Joel. I don't think you would have to cover everything in cloth, that's just what I wanted to do.
Thanks Don. I'll check.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
The inside fillets are complete.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:48 am
by AtTheBrink
Looks good Casey. You aren't working wet on wet on your seams?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
AtTheBrink wrote:Looks good Casey. You aren't working wet on wet on your seams?
I would like to but time is not permitting it. I have to work in these smaller chunks...

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:41 am
by Uncle D
flyfishingmonk wrote: I have to work in these smaller chunks...
I know all about that. Persevere.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have sanded and vaced the fillets and cut out all the tape for the keel, chine and transom.

Next up I will cut out the fiberglass lamination. I plan to fiberglass the inside this weekend. Dad is coming to town so that will be a big help! He and mom are driving down to see a movie premier that my wife is volunteering with. It's a documentary about adoption developed to raise awareness of all the red tape the gov and lawyers have put in place for international adoption. It's a total racket. Maybe the doc will lead to some change.

Casey

P.S. And on a side note - today is my 10th year anniversary. Still going great after 10 years. We went out for sushi.

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Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:25 am
by Cracker Larry
Congrats to you and Summer on 10 years 8) I'm not sure what looks better, her, or those plates of sushi :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Congrats to you and Summer on 10 years 8) I'm not sure what looks better, her, or those plates of sushi :lol:
That was some amazing sushi. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:33 pm
by Uncle D
WTG Summer and Casey. Here's to another 10+++ :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:WTG Summer and Casey. Here's to another 10+++ :D
Thanks Don!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:13 pm
by tobolamr
Congrats on 10 years!

And watch that one plate of sushi - it looks like someone put a jig-n-pig in there on the far right... j/k!!!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Congrats on 10 years!

And watch that one plate of sushi - it looks like someone put a jig-n-pig in there on the far right... j/k!!!! :lol:
LOL

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:34 am
by MarkOrge
Congratulations !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Mark!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Today my father and I glassed about 70% of the inside of the hull. We plan to finish up the remaining portion in the morning.

I'll post pics soon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:53 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:Today my father and I glassed about 70% of the inside of the hull. We plan to finish up the remaining portion in the morning.

I'll post pics soon.

Casey
Can't wait for it, everything looks very good 8) , o yeah a little late but congrats.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:
flyfishingmonk wrote:Today my father and I glassed about 70% of the inside of the hull. We plan to finish up the remaining portion in the morning.

I'll post pics soon.

Casey
Can't wait for it, everything looks very good 8) , o yeah a little late but congrats.
Thanks Peter!

Everything went well but I ran our of epoxy. I'm lacking about 12 or 16 oz or so. I have a few dry spots in the weave to come back and fill.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I sanded my stringers and bulkheads and laid them in the boat to start to study the layout. Here are a few modifications I plan to make. Thoughts?

For bulkheads A, B and C, I plan to cut out any excess wood under the sole, leaving 3 inches for the layers of 12 oz tape that adhere the hull to the stringers and bulkheads. I'm planning on this for two reasons, to shave off a little bit of weight maybe, but also to make the numerous pipes of conduit easy to put into place. It won't take long to cut out the wood with my jig saw.

Between bulkhead D and E I plan to drop the sole a couple inches, making sure to leave space for the 3 inches of wood for fiberglass tape plus the 2 inch conduit. This will give me greater room in that hatch, which will be divided into two compartments, each equipped for bait well/live well circulation.

I plan to floor the sole between the transom and bulkhead E and D with 1/4 inch plywood to reduce weight, as well as everything forward of bulkhead B. The cockpit floor will have 1/2 inch ply. This will allow me to use the 1/2 ply that I save for the sheer, coming and the transom. Hopefully I won't have to pick up another sheet of wood.

Casey

The sole in front of bulkhead B I plan to drop two or three inches to make room for my fuel tanks and to give me more room in the hatches. The hatches will have drains that go to the bilge.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:57 pm
by tobolamr
Casey,

I think you may want to double check between D & E... I don't have my plans in front of me, but sole = cockpit floor, and I don't think you really want to do that. As I recall, the folks who have had to do a lot of reinforcing to accommodate that change, which added a lot of weight. And I also think from past questioning that Jacques has always said not to do so, as the floor of the cockpit is structural.

I may also have my bulkheads mixed up in my head. But, better safe than sorry! Just trying to save some weight and headache!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:Casey,

I think you may want to double check between D & E... I don't have my plans in front of me, but sole = cockpit floor, and I don't think you really want to do that. As I recall, the folks who have had to do a lot of reinforcing to accommodate that change, which added a lot of weight. And I also think from past questioning that Jacques has always said not to do so, as the floor of the cockpit is structural.

I may also have my bulkheads mixed up in my head. But, better safe than sorry! Just trying to save some weight and headache!
tobolamr,

I will still have all the floor structure, they will just vary a tad between D and E. I understood that as long as we have the 3 inch requirement for the bulkheads then we would be good (I will actually still have around 5). Now I also have two massive reverse chines and reinforcement under these bulkheads with two solid strakes that both have two additional layers of 12 oz. I was considering tossing in one additional 1/2 reinforcement under the live well/bait well floors that runs perpendicular between D and E just to add a tad more reinforcing.

At the end of the day I will end up with even more glass and fiberglass than the original plans (2 layers on the bottom instead of one + reverse chines + strakes + extra 1/2 perpendicular pieces under bait well/live well floor). The trade off is a little less height for the stringer between D and E and the sole being 1/4 instead of 1/2.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:37 pm
by Uncle D
If I remember right, between D and E where the livewell would normally be, there is no sole on the plans. The live well could extend to the hull.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Uncle D wrote:If I remember right, between D and E where the livewell would normally be, there is no sole on the plans. The live well could extend to the hull.
Good call. I just pulled the plans to double check and there is a big void in the sole for the live well. The sole is 3/8ths and runs from A to E. So in front of A there is no sole and behind E there is no sole so I may put in some 1/4 just to finish it off. This would also reinforce the transom a little more.

So what I will plan to do between D and E then is simply drop the stringers just a tad to make a little more room and floor in the whole area with 1/4. I will run one stringer up all the way to the top to give me a 60/40 split, thus creating the bait well and live well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:42 pm
by Steven
Jacques is always very adamant about not cutting down stringers. I don't recall any exceptions to that rule. I would definitely get his or Joel buyoff on that. Stringers are beams. All the load is carried to the edges away from the center, which is why you can cut holes for chases without compromising the strength of the beam. Cutting the edge is huge change and would cause point loads at the cut.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven,

That makes sense. I would not be dropping it much and would reinforce it with extra wood and glass. I'll put a thread together and post it for Jaques and Joel to comment on.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the modification I am wanting to make. This presents it in a little more detail.

I think if we take the extremely solid reverse chine and the addition of the two strakes, each with two layers of biaxel fiberglass over them, into consideration, we are plenty strong for this modification. The hull itself also has an additional layer of fiberglass on the bottom, and the 12 oz glass goes all the way up the outside and the inside will be glassed all the way to the top as well.

The first pic is of the modification and is a cross section of the sole between bulkheads D and E. This requires only removing a little bit of the top of each stringer and has one additional piece of plywood that runs from the bottom of the bait well to the deck. I am also wanting to add one additional support beam across the top of the bait well to give the hatch something to rest on, since the hatch will also be the bench seat.

The reason I want to make the change is to gain an extra 2 to 3 inches for the depth of the live well/bait well. This will give me around 12 inches for the water and still give me an additional 2 to 3 inches of space between the bottom of the hatch and the water's surface. Here is the link to a larger pic that you can click on for better resolution. http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pid=47973

The second picture shows the original design on top of the modification design.
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pid=47974


The third is of the strake and chine that both span over D and E.

The fourth picture is of the wood laminates that build up the chine.

The fifth picture is of the strake. You can see the extra two layers of glass that curves over the epoxy strake.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everyone.

I have hardly spent any time building the last 20 days or so. I've been studying to take the insurance exam (TX Life, Health, and Accident) and took it the other day and passed it with flying colors. Next up is the Series 65. So I may have my nose in a book for the next few weeks as I prepare for it as well. Hopefully it will go as smooth, or smoother, than the insurance exam. I plan to be back to building very soon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:48 pm
by Mad Dog
Sounds like a career change coming up. 8O With those credentials you could be working for us. Good luck!

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mad Dog wrote:Sounds like a career change coming up. 8O With those credentials you could be working for us. Good luck!

MD :wink:
Hey Thanks MD! I appreciate the encouragement. I have had my nose in a Series 65 test book the last two weeks. Only now am I getting back to the forum to take a quick look at what all is going on.

The boat continues to rest in the lonely garage. Hopefully, I'll being back on some of the work toward the end of May.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:55 pm
by tobolamr
How are things going, Casey? Long time, no post! :D Just curious to check in on you, and see how things are going.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
tobolamr wrote:How are things going, Casey? Long time, no post! :D Just curious to check in on you, and see how things are going.
Howdy! Things are well. I havent worked on the boat in about two months. I have been traveling with my job and working on positioning myself into more of a financial advisory role (in addition to sales and marketing) for my consulting work with individuals, companies, and non-profit organizations. So that's been taking a serious chunk of my time. I hope to get back on it soon.

Thanks for asking!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I'm just dropping in to give a quick shout out to everyone. I still have not made any progress since the flip. I passed my insurance exam with flying colors. I am now deep into studying for the securities exam. Maybe then I will be back on the build.

Have a great day Bateau2 friends!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:12 am
by Mad Dog
Good to hear form you Casey. Congrats on the insurance exam. I'm sure you will do well with the securities exam as well. Stay in touch.

MD :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mad Dog wrote:Good to hear form you Casey. Congrats on the insurance exam. I'm sure you will do well with the securities exam as well. Stay in touch.

MD :wink:
Thanks Mad Dog!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
A little update on life.

I passed my securities exam. It went very well. :D

I am having a baby boy in February. :D

I signed a contract to build a home with a 3 car garage. The wife gave the OK for all the bays to be dedicated to boatbuilding. That is one of the nice things about living in TX - decent weather. The house should be complete around the end of February. :P

I preparing my current home to sell. :help:

Planning to put in the stringers and two bulkheads before moving the boat to temporary location - the place we will live between this house selling and the other one being complete. This will stiffen it up for the move.

Casey

P.S. Thanks Mad Dog!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:59 pm
by Steven
Congrats all the way round Casey. Are you moving in the same area? We need to get together and hit Texoma when the top water action starts. Cold weather fishing. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Congrats all the way round Casey. Are you moving in the same area? We need to get together and hit Texoma when the top water action starts. Cold weather fishing. :)
Steven,

Sounds great. I would love to. I will be moving up off of 380 in the north part of Little Elm, just east of Denton. Still very close.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:07 am
by Steven
Right on my way to Texoma. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:01 am
by Cracker Larry
Dang Casey, you've got a lot going on! Congrats to you and Summer 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
@Larry - Thanks! Transition is always fun. I hope you are well.

@Steven - That's just what I was thinking.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:07 pm
by willg
Congratulations, Casey! You've got a full plate, for sure. I wish you great luck with it all.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Congratulations, Casey! You've got a full plate, for sure. I wish you great luck with it all.

Will
Thanks Will!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It's a boy!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:42 am
by wegcagle
Congrats Casey! I wish the best for the newest addition, and a speedy recovery for your wife.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:02 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:A little update on life.
I am having a baby boy in February. :D

Casey
Hmmm I always thought monks didn't ...... :lol:

Congratulations on all wonderful stuff happening in your life at the moment 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:34 am
by MarkOrge
Casey - congratulations from north of the 49th. Wow. You are blessed.

Cheers !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys! I'll post up a pic when the little tike is born.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Guys! Long time no talk. I have sold the house and am building a house with a 3 car garage. Once I'm in it I hope to be back on the build.

In the meantime, I have a question about the bottom of an aluminum boat for saltwater, specifically over oyster beds.

My buddy just got a newly restored aluminum boat and it has a two part enamel on the bottom. I was telling him about how we use graphite in our epoxy to make it really abrasion resistant. Would something similar work for aluminum? And if so would he need to take off the paint and epoxy the bottom of his boat with 4 or 5 coats to protect it?

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:23 am
by Cracker Larry
Welcome back Casey!

I wouldn't use graphite on aluminum. Graphite is carbon and it's electrically conductive. This could cause a current flow that may eat up the aluminum by electrolysis. A lot of folks around here use truck bed liner like rino liner.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:46 am
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Welcome back Casey!

I wouldn't use graphite on aluminum. Graphite is carbon and it's electrically conductive. This could cause a current flow that may eat up the aluminum by electrolysis. A lot of folks around here use truck bed liner like rino liner.
That in first place made sense Larry,but when I was thinking further ( I know I shouldn't do that :wink: )isn't epoxy also an isolator what isolate the dust particles from each other and the boat? Not trying to be a wise ass, I'm just asking 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:23 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm sure the epoxy would isolate to some extent, but don't think I'd risk it. Some scuffing may be all it takes to break down the insulating property of the epoxy.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:40 pm
by Shamrock Kid
Hey CL, how do they get the rhino liner smooth? Or do they just leave it as is and not worry about it. Does it effect performance ( ie cause a drag)?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:28 am
by willg
Casey, good to hear from you. If your garage turns out like mine, you still won't be parking your cars in it till that boat is done.

I'm looking forward to seeing you get back to your build!

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hey thanks for the feedback guys!

Baby number three will be any day now. The house should be done by the end of Feb. Hopefully I will be back at it in April or May.

Casey

Will - Who said anything about parking cars in it. Garages are for projects. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Baby Jude has been born. Now if I can get this house closed on the 28th I hope to be back on the build.

Here is the new little guy.

Image

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:26 am
by Steven
Beautiful. Congratulations!!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:56 am
by Cracker Larry
Congrats Casey and Summer 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry and Steven!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:16 am
by willg
Beautiful baby, Casey. That's what it"s all about. Congratulations to you and your family.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:33 am
by wegcagle
Just awesome :D Congrats to you and Summer :!:

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:08 pm
by 94Virago
He definitely looks like a boat guy. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:24 pm
by tobolamr
I'm late to the party...

But congrats on the new little boy!

Any new pics of the boat? I saw that your boat stand was moving around, and would absolutely LOVE to see boat pics! AND a family pic, perchance?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Will, Will, tobolamr, and Virago!

He is doing great. The house is now complete and a guy is coming over next week to install the garage door openers. I now have a 3 bay garage for completing the boat. I'll post up some pics as soon as I get the boat in the garage. It's still in storage. I might have it as soon as this weekend.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
After installing 90 feet of four inch rigid pipe and flexible hose, the vac system is almost back online. =)

Now I have to fix the end table on the table saw, order a part that broke on my bandsaw, install the lights, and level the boat and I will be back in business.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
I Purchased ten 8-foot fluorescents to hang in the garage and the necessary stuff for wiring. Hopefully the lights will be back on soon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
About 75% of the garage lighting is complete. Dad and mom visited for Memorial day, and we got some good work done. Hopefully this week I can finish what's left.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:25 am
by mindunderwater
Any chance a local builder-to-be could drop by for a look?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
mindunderwater wrote:Any chance a local builder-to-be could drop by for a look?
Of course! Allow me a few more weeks and I will have the garage back in working order and all the lights back on. Then it will be easier to see what is going on with the build.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:58 pm
by mindunderwater
No worries :)

If you need a hand I'm familiar with the 'messy garage' concept :oops:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
If I come across any heavy lifting I'll call ya!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Picture time.

Here are some shots of the new lighting and one shot of part of the vac system. I picked up 10 eight foot light fixtures. Four for the third car bay, and six for the two car bay. If I need to replace a ballast I can just disconnect the whole fixture. If I move, I can take them with me. They give off a lot of light but it is kind of hard to tell from the pics. I have 6 more to install. And that ugly pigtail light came with the house. I dislike those things. I have been replacing bulbs that burn out with LEDs. I like em. They are a little expensive but if they last as long as they say they will that will be a plus. And the new ones look really good.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Lights are installed. It's nice and bright.

Next up:

Organize the garage.

Install two new outlets.

Repair the table saw.

Level boat.

Finish boat.

It's doesn't sound that hard really. :wink:

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:35 am
by pee wee
Good lighting is worth the trouble to install. Question: it looks like your dust collector is outside (like it should be), do you also have an air cleaner hanging from the ceiling? That would be a good combo, better for yor health and make cleanup easier.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote:Good lighting is worth the trouble to install. Question: it looks like your dust collector is outside (like it should be), do you also have an air cleaner hanging from the ceiling? That would be a good combo, better for your health and make cleanup easier.
Hi Pee Wee,

Actually the dust collector is on the inside, unfortunately. The photo of it passing through the wall is it going to the other side of the garage (from the third car bay to the two bay).

I do have an air filter hanging from the ceiling. You can see part of it in the photo below. And when things are really dusty, I wear a mask. For this set up I installed five gate valves with hoses to the equipment, and in two places I have floor pickups to sweep dust up, one in each bay. :)

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:41 pm
by MarkOrge
So what size flat screen are you hanging in there to have sports games on while you work on the boat LOL ?

Nice Garage !! AKA "Man-Shed"

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:So what size flat screen are you hanging in there to have sports games on while you work on the boat LOL ?

Nice Garage !! AKA "Man-Shed"
80".

;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The work has begun... again. I sanded the inside of the boat to clean it back up and added some epoxy to a few spots that did not wet out when I laminated it (I had run out of epoxy). Next up will be for me to tab the stringers into place and then to epoxy them all in.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
So here is a question for ya. I understand that we can cut out excess weight from the bulkheads, under the sole, as long as we keep 3 inches top and bottom (I suppose more so on the bottom so the wood can be laminated with fiberglass tape). So does the same go for the stringers? Looking at them, there is quite a bit of wood that could be removed and would still allow for three inches against the hull, and three inches under the sole.

I don't mind the extra work and my stringers and bulkheads are 1/8 inch thicker than they need to be because I got a deal on the thicker wood, same for the sole and deck. Keep in mind, I have these crazy thick solid wood chines running the length of the hull on both sides as well making the boat extra stiff and very strong. See pic.

Image

Thoughts

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:49 am
by AtTheBrink
I wouldn't cut anything out of the stringers. In theory it may sound good but that is the backbone of your boat. I would leave them be.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:03 am
by Cracker Larry
Leave em be, Casey. How much weight could it possibly save, 5 pounds?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah maybe 5 to 7. It looks like quite a bit of wood. If it's not absolutely required for the structure, then I would prefer to remove the excess. The additional benefit is for placing the chase tubes. There are quite a few chase tubes - we have EVERY electronic under the sun going into this boat. It would require less time to cut the excess out now, then dorking with trying to get it right for the tubes. The holes would already be there.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:28 am
by MarkOrge
For what it is worth Casey, I had the exact same thought. My stringers are light in core (2" Divinicyl H80) but the layup schedule is huge - 4 X 1208 wrapped over and on to the hull. This was 3 gallons (give or take) resin plus cloth per X time 4 stringers ! When I did the calculation on what it would save me after drilling out 2" hole saw (10" high at best - 3" top and bottom) it really doesn't gain us anything.

Cheers Bro !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:04 am
by tech_support
You might have more work in cutting and sealing up all the holes vs. just running the chase tubes and cutting sealing where you need to. Its your boat though :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Side Note: I forgot how much I love this forum and missed the discussion! You guys are great to dialogue with.

Casey

P.S. As for the holes, I'll mull it over a little more. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:20 pm
by mindunderwater
Looks like you're back in action. Can't wait 'till I can get a look at it. I'm trying to decide if the PH16 is too rich for my blood...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You will have to get down here and see this boat.

casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:11 pm
by mindunderwater
Let me know when :) I can't wait...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
How does your next weekend look? This weekend I have to work but next weekend I will not be near as busy.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:10 am
by mindunderwater
Lots of thumb twiddling scheduled until I can order my plywood. Extra paycheck month is WIN :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Nice! Which boat did you decide on?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:34 pm
by mindunderwater
I haven't. I was going to build the GF16 but I'm going to get to build ONE boat... so considering the PH16 and a few others. Mostly I want to see the build methods in place.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Well when you see this PH18/20 you will definitely get to see what the PH16 is like since they are pretty much the same thing.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I cut the excess wood out of the stingers and really like how it went. It was easy and went pretty quick. They are already noticeable lighter. I'm not a good judge of how much something weighs but the stack of wood sure looks tall. Unfortunately I don't have a scale sensitive enough to weigh it so I'll have to swing by the UPS store or someplace with a small scale. I can see it now - me in the produce line at Target with 20+ pieces of marine grade ply stacked in the stainless steel pan above the mangos.

Next up will be the extra wood in the bulkheads. Once I get those cut out I'll post up some pics, weigh the whole batch, add a little extra weight for the savings in glass and epoxy, and post up the total weight. I can tell you this. The stringers look really cool, like the ribs in the wing of an airplane. It's a shame they will be covered up by the sole.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:34 pm
by AtTheBrink
Not trying to pee in your cheerios or anything but did Jacques or Joel weigh in on this? Hope it all turns out good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
I would NOT have cut those holes without Jacques OK 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
shine wrote:You might have more work in cutting and sealing up all the holes vs. just running the chase tubes and cutting sealing where you need to. Its your boat though :)
jacquesmm wrote:He probably thinks of lightening holes but the stringers are too low for that.
He should leave at least 3" all around the holes and with stringers max. 10" high it's not worth the troubles.

Also, remember that a boat is designed for a certain weight. It is nice to be stay within the designed weight or reduce it a little bit but if you make her too light she will not float as designed. One problem that could happen in power boats is chine walking: dynamic lateral instability. If the chines are not sufficiently immersed at planing speed because of the boat being too light, she will become unstable.
I imagine if it had been a major problem then I would not have seen the above. However, with the solid chine, and we are talking crazy solid thick wood all the way down the length of the boat, an additional layer of glass on the bottom, the additional solid strakes that are 6 feet in length, the thicker wood than what the plans called for on the stringers, deck, and sole, and me adhering to the 3 to 3.5 inches on the top and bottom of the stringers, I think it's plenty strong. In addition, consider the reverse chine alone easily has 10 times more wood in it than what I just took out of the centerline of the stringers.

As for the longer spans between bulkheads B and C and C and D, I did not run the complete length of them for the cut outs, but left a span of wood bridging the top and bottom of the stringer, if that makes sense. I plan to run glass up that span of wood to the sole as an added measure.

Casey

P.S. Here is a pic of what the chines and strakes look like. The strakes have two extra layers of 12oz glass, and are epoxy with a wood core. The chines are solid wood laminate. You know they talk about the PH sagging when it is set up right. This boat has no sag that I can tell. It's crazy stiff.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:40 pm
by Steven
Well, supporting it's own weight, and managing the dynamic loads a boat is under are vastly different things. Can you post some pics of the stringer work? It probably sounds worse than it is. :) Especially if your going to foam everything in.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:27 am
by jorgepease
Nice work!

If you bored holes through the center and did not cut the edge or spine that would be much better but I would definitely at least epoxy coat the cut edges to make sure the stringers are sealed against water intrusion.

I know foam is required for boats under 20' but I hate that stuff, it may not absorb water but it holds it up against your bulkhead or hull and promotes rot. I would foam into plastic bags and not directly to a wood or glass surface because the initial structural support is lost fairly quickly anyway, the low density foam is very friable, just a matter of time before it crumbles.

I am over the 20' limit so I did not have to comply with that reg.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:19 am
by Steven
Foam isn't required at all in a home built boat in the states. However, it is pour in place and there is no way for water to get into the compartments, and even if it did, it couldn't get between the foam and panels, and even if it did, the epoxy won't let any water through. I drilled through the deck in a couple place after 2 years in use and have air pressure release through the hole. Properly built, the sub floor compartments are even air tight. I've also dug out some foam during some mods and there is no crumbling with modern 2 part closed cell foams.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote:Well, supporting it's own weight, and managing the dynamic loads a boat is under are vastly different things. Can you post some pics of the stringer work? It probably sounds worse than it is. :) Especially if your going to foam everything in.
Thanks for responding Steven and jorgepease,

I will plan to get some pics this week and post them up. I basically just made sure the wholes were large enough for the conduits outside diameter. I have the two part foam I ordered from Shane I plan to use in all of the compartments with the exception of the bilge.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:22 am
by Walkers Run
Steven wrote:Foam isn't required at all in a home built boat in the states. However, it is pour in place and there is no way for water to get into the compartments, and even if it did, it couldn't get between the foam and panels, and even if it did, the epoxy won't let any water through. I drilled through the deck in a couple place after 2 years in use and have air pressure release through the hole. Properly built, the sub floor compartments are even air tight. I've also dug out some foam during some mods and there is no crumbling with modern 2 part closed cell foams.
Good to know my boat is full of that stuff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:27 pm
by jorgepease
Steven wrote:Foam isn't required at all in a home built boat in the states. However, it is pour in place and there is no way for water to get into the compartments, and even if it did, it couldn't get between the foam and panels, and even if it did, the epoxy won't let any water through.
I couldn't find the home built exemption to flotation foam for home built boats in the USCG boat builders handbook. Does it also apply to electrical and fuel?

I agree if you keep it sealed tight you should be ok for a long time, here is a good read from GlenL on flotation foam https://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/weblett ... ation.html

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks! I'll check it out.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I hope everyone is well. I have a question about fuel tanks. The pic below is of two fuel tanks I plan to install between the sole and the deck, just forward of the bulkhead at the front of the cockpit (the one just in front of the ice chest on a flats boat).

What is the best method for installing a tank like this? What type of material should it rest on? I have seen some straps that look promising, but I think I would prefer something more permanent, maybe a way to hold it on all sides with wood/fiberglass. My plan is to be able to remove it through a hatch if I need to service it.

Thoughts?

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:06 pm
by Cannonball
If you want the ability to remove it and have good access I would use some heavy duty zip ties you can get in the electrical dept of lowes or home depot. Nothing to come loose or rust. I just screwed a couple stainless eyes to the deck and then looped two 4 foot ties and cut of the slack. It is a little unconventional, but it's in there solid. Zip ties are the 21st century rednecks duct tape 8) I put the neoprene pads under my tank that came with the kit.

By the way did I really just see that you've been working on this for like 4 or 5 years? I had a friend just start building this boat and was wondering how steady you've been working on it? Time per week/month?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cannonball wrote:If you want the ability to remove it and have good access I would use some heavy duty zip ties you can get in the electrical dept of lowes or home depot. Nothing to come loose or rust. I just screwed a couple stainless eyes to the deck and then looped two 4 foot ties and cut of the slack. It is a little unconventional, but it's in there solid. Zip ties are the 21st century rednecks duct tape 8) I put the neoprene pads under my tank that came with the kit.

By the way did I really just see that you've been working on this for like 4 or 5 years? I had a friend just start building this boat and was wondering how steady you've been working on it? Time per week/month?
Cannonball,

I'll look into those zip ties.

As for your question about working on this 4 or 5 years. I begun working on it heavily in the spring of 2010 and continued on and off until about a year and three months ago. Then I stopped to build a house, take the series 65 and four insurance exams, and to have a baby. Now we are moved in, I have completed all my exams and passed with flying colors ( :) ) and am now back at it (while I attempt to build a new company).

I am going to try my best to stay on it for the final push. Right now I am at 845.5 hours of build time. I have all of the hardware and electronics purchased with the exception of the motor. So fortunately a lot of the time for messing with getting parts is behind me. I also plan to have a guy do a professional paint job on it, so that will save some time as well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:40 pm
by Cannonball
Wow, I see. Having kids slows things down to a crawl. I was trying to get mine done before the little one came, but no dice and it has been hard to work on ever since. Good luck.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:36 pm
by Steven
Hey Casey,

Glad you're back at it. Be sure to give plenty of space around the tanks for swelling. I went a little more than Moeller specified and it still wasn't enough. It's pressing into the bulkhead so hard the top of the tank is warped making the fuel sending unit unusable. Moeller says it's not a problem like that, but I don't like it. I'll be installing a custome aluminum tank in the winter I think.

You can install them on 1/4" neoprene strips sold on the site. Strap It loosely to allow for expansion. The Zip tie idea is interesting. Not sure if I'd trust it in a sealed compartment or not. I glued in supports over the top to hold it in place padded with the same neoprene. The looseness of the fit is a guessing game. I didn't guess too well I suppose. :) I put a little dab of foam in the front 2 corners to keep it from shifting forward. Stole that idea from Larry.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Nice. This is very helpful!

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:58 am
by mindunderwater
If you have time this weekend just shoot me a msg off list.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It looks like this weekend is shaping up to be crazy. However, next week life should be back to normal. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a couple of questions.

Conduit
The conduit seems pretty straight forward. However, I figured it is best to get some feedback. I intend to use flex PVC in varying widths depending on what I am pulling through the chase. On the ends I'm considering rigid slip/slip sweep 90s. Is there anything special for the fuel line? Is it better to run it up under the gunnel instead of under the sole? If so, would it be in a chase tube? I will have a fuel filter most likely in the starboard box adjacent to the transom. I will also have a fuel valve that I am considering hiding up under the gunnel. Thoughts?

Rod Holders/Tubes
Now for the rod holders and the tubes that protect the tips. What have you guys found to be the best design for both the construction of the holders that pull the rod against the bulkhead, and for the tubes?

Half-Moon Drain Cut Outs
So about the little half-moon cut out right in the center of the base of the bulkheads for draining purposes. Is this still needed if I am filling all of the boxes with foam? From the sound of this foam expanding into every nook and cranny, it seems that water would not have the freedom to flow out or even get in for that matter. However with the half-moon cutout the water in the bilge could seep up into the cut out.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:24 am
by AtTheBrink
I used 1¼" thin wall PVC for rod tubes. They turned out pretty good. The schedule 20 will bend a little if you need it to. I just roughed it up with 60 grit where I glued it, the thickened epoxy sticks to it, well, like glue...
For the rod holders under the gunnels I doubled up 3/8" plywood, covered it both sides with 12 oz glass and cut out a shape that looked good to me. To hold the rods in place, keep them from bouncing out, I used short pieces of thin bungee cord that loops around a button. The button is made for bungees on kayaks. I was please with how it all turned out. There are pictures of all of it in my build thread and in the gallery.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:41 am
by Steven
Running the fuel line in a chase under the sole is a typical install. I used a Moeller inline valve close to the tank, but my tank is under the front deck so a hatch on the bulkhead gives easy access. No reason not to run it under the tunnel if that works better, just be sure to run it in a dedicated chase. Make sure to leave room for rod holders if you're planning on some.

You don't need limber holes for the sealed compartments. They'll probably be air tight and the foam renders them useless anyway.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Mike and Steven. Very helpful.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
I was able to get a little time in on the boat with my dad for the holidays. We begun construction of the center console, building the base. I'll post pics when we make more progress.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I want to make a huge shoutout today to MindUnderWater!

Eric was a big help. We laminated several boards together that will make up the frame of the center console, and we laminated two of the three transom pieces together. Lots of boards, lots of epoxy, and lots of good conversation.

Thanks bro!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:08 pm
by mindunderwater
... Or How I Learned to Stop Trying to Figure Things Out and Love Building the Boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
Update: I picked up a nice little anchor from BassPro. I like the looks of it. It's made by Chene for boats 12' to 25'. I also picked up a rope for it and an stainless steel shackle. Now I only need the chain. I wanted to get my hands on one so I can see how everything will fit in the front locker.

The base to the console is done, as well as the posts for the internal frame. The posts I made by laminating scrap Okoume together. Hopefully this weekend I can get some time in on the console frame. I think I am going to cut out the wood floor next and dry fit it into the boat with the stringers and bulkheads to get a feel for all of the chase tubes and equipment. Sometime in there I will laminate the transom with all three pieces of ply.

Two of the plywood pieces for the transom have been laminated and will now need to be drilled and filled for the hardware that mounts to it. Then I will glue the two laminates onto the transom with thickened epoxy, and draw it up tight through some of the hardware holes. Then I will scratch my head and figure out what step to tackle next.

I think I am going to try to find another HDS to supplement the Lowrance 10" that I have for the console, and hope to mount it to the front deck someplace. Maybe an 8".

Cheers!

Casey

P.S. Larry - I sent you a side ping to your email via the form.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:39 pm
by mindunderwater
Let me know if you need a hand. I'll make sure I'm a bit better prepared this time.. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
Casey, sorry, I didn't get a PM. Email me direct LTeuton at aol dot com, or call me. You should still have my number.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry,

I'll give you a call so we can catch up.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the center console. I chrome escutcheons for the other two gauges. The base is basically a box, as shown in the bottom two photos and it will be bolted to a stainless steel frame that will be bolted to the center stringers between bulkheads C and D. The console will sit on top of a piece of ply that can be replaced if it ever gets water damage, like a sacrificial board. I am also considering four rubber feet four or so inches in diameter, to hold if a 1/4 off the sole instead of the plywood. Either way should work well. I will need to get some custom work done for a couple of grab rails for the center console, and a seat with a removable backrest. I plan to get these from Raymond (I think that is his name - Larry's friend).

It looks like I will need to pick up a couple sheets of plywood. I had to use one to laminate the two extra 1/2 pieces for the transom, and I think I will need a little more 1/4 for some hatches, etc. Next up will be cutting and filling all the hardware holes for the transom, and continuing the progress on the console. I have not made any progress on the hull other than taking out excess ply in the bulkheads and stringers for making things easier with all the chase tubes.

Hopefully after the transom is complete I can proceed with glassing the stringers and bulkheads.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:14 am
by mindunderwater
Be careful lest it become self-aware and start leaving the fridge open... Looks well thought-out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
If it becomes self aware then maybe it will even catch my fish for me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello forum, I hope everybody is going great!

After two or so years of building a new company, http://www.provisionretirement.com, building a new home with a three car garage for finishing the boat, and having a new baby boy (that gives us three future anglers), I am finally back on this project.

So for my first question. I laminated two 1/2 pieces of ply together to bulk up the transom, giving me a total of 1.5 inches. mindunderwater helped me with the lamination.

So do you guys run the extra 1 inch of extra ply all the way from the top to the bottom of the transom? Is it over-kill to do that? If not, I don't mind removing the 6 or so inches to reduce weight, per what I see on the plan.

Thanks in advance.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:11 pm
by willg
Casey, you've been a busy man over the last 2 years. It's good to see you'll be back on the build, and I'm looking forward to your updates.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Casey, you've been a busy man over the last 2 years. It's good to see you'll be back on the build, and I'm looking forward to your updates.

Will
Thanks Will! It will be nice to reconnect with people.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
After reviewing the plans a little closer, I plan to lop off the excess wood, since the plans only have the outboard clamp coming down from the top of the transom 12 inches. Toward the sides of the boat I will allow it to extend all the way down because the trim tabs mount into the transom, and the extra wood thickness there will be helpful for the mounting hardware.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:19 pm
by TomW1
Hi Casey welcome back as I recall you're putting a !!5HP on the back of that boat. So I would go ahead and glue the extra wood on it.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote:Hi Casey welcome back as I recall you're putting a !!5HP on the back of that boat. So I would go ahead and glue the extra wood on it.

Tom
Good point Tom. Thoughts on removing a smaller section toward the very bottom of the transom? What I am looking to cut out would be roughly 8 inches tall at the deepest point (very center of the transom) by 42 inches long. This would save me from having to fill 16 holes with epoxy for the second two layers.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:01 am
by Steven
Hey Casey. Good to see you back at it. It's probably strong enough as is, even with the extra power. There's a log of framing adding strength to the transom. I'm sure there's a safety factor engineered in for us non-professionals. :) Maybe Jacques will chime in with his blessing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:58 pm
by TomW1
flyfishingmonk wrote:
TomW1 wrote:Hi Casey welcome back as I recall you're putting a !!5HP on the back of that boat. So I would go ahead and glue the extra wood on it.

Tom
Good point Tom. Thoughts on removing a smaller section toward the very bottom of the transom? What I am looking to cut out would be roughly 8 inches tall at the deepest point (very center of the transom) by 42 inches long. This would save me from having to fill 16 holes with epoxy for the second two layers.

Casey
Would this be like flattening the keel. If so it can be done. Just do it as the keel raises. So it might be 8" at the stern and 0 at the front of it. Some of the commercial boats have these flat keels others do not, there are both advantages and disadvantages to both of them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Tom,

This would be just simply eliminating the excess wood that is not needed, the wood that rests under the transom clamp.

I marked in blue the wood I plan to cut off with a jig saw, saving me a lot of time filling the oversized holes with epoxy. You can also see how the transom comes down on the sides to allow the Minn Kota trim-n-troll (trim tabs with trolling motors) to mount into the thicker wood. This also provides thicker wood for the two Minn Kota shallow water anchors to mount into.

This is still larger than what the plans have for the transom clamp, which is 12 inches tall and runs the width of the boat. The motor will be offset with a 4" jack plate. The pic is a little distorted since it is three photos cropped together with the panorama app on my phone.

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Here is the transom laminates next to the original template.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:43 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think that transom needs a few more holes :lol: Dang Casey 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:11 pm
by pee wee
No need to cut out a portion to save weight, just drill two more holes!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote:No need to cut out a portion to save weight, just drill two more holes!! :lol:
Cracker Larry wrote:I think that transom needs a few more holes :lol: Dang Casey 8O
I finally came up with a name for the boat, "Swiss Cheese"

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got in a little bit of fishing a few weeks ago. Canada trip for pike and walleye, with the family, on the fly rod. =)

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:56 pm
by TomW1
Dang Casey that is a lot of holes. I feel you are removing a lot of wood on the transom that you don't need to. Can you reduce the height and width of the piece that you want to remove and replace it with a solid piece. I would also ask Jacques about this. The transom needs to be a strong piece for the motor be supported.

Nice fishing trip 8)

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote:Dang Casey that is a lot of holes. I feel you are removing a lot of wood on the transom that you don't need to. Can you reduce the height and width of the piece that you want to remove and replace it with a solid piece. I would also ask Jacques about this. The transom needs to be a strong piece for the motor be supported.

Nice fishing trip 8)

Tom
All of those holes are getting filled with thickened epoxy, they are the mounting holes for the following: jack plate, 1 bilge drain,2 livewell drains, 2 u-bolts, trim tabs, shallow water anchors, and a few minor things like a side scan sonar and a speed indicator wheel.

As as for strength, I am not too worried. The total transom thickness is 1.5 inches of 1/2 marine ply. The photo of the swiss chese board is of the second two laminates. I understand others have used ply laminates for their transom.

Here is Jacques's comments regarding a P16.
jacquesmm wrote:No clamping board anymore but yes, the full transom will be 1-1/2" plus fiberglass.
You have to cut the stringers shorter or better, cut notches fro them in the extra plywood.
Do not forget to double all the biaxial tape all round transom, motorwell, stringers to transom etc.
One of our 1st builders mounted a 125 on a PH16 that way and he clocked it at 55 mph.
But I also just came across this in the same convo:
jacquesmm wrote:1. Build the whole transom to the same thickness than the clamping board.
2. Double tabbing all around.
So I will forego cutting out the section at the bottom and will increase the glass per Jacques's comments.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:40 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't think you will have a strength issue when all are filled. That's just a lot of holes for a lot of stuff :lol:

Nice fish, and you look just like your Dad. Wish mine was still here to fish with.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:29 pm
by Newt
Cracker Larry wrote:I don't think you will have a strength issue when all are filled. That's just a lot of holes for a lot of stuff :lol:

Nice fish, and you look just like your Dad. Wish he was still here to fish with.
Well, you know all about that! LOL

Newt

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Larry!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got all the holes backfilled and both sides of the transom laminates sanded and ready to be sealed, along with the transom itself.

Next up I will glue the transom laminates using Silvertip GelMagic and will add two more additional pieces of fiberglass tape all along the transom joint on the inside. This will double the fiberglass for the transom. Then I will proceed with the stringers.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:28 am
by MarkOrge
Glad you enjoyed coming up our way !

Where did you go ?

PS: next time you come if you are nearby we can get out on "Tangles and Snags". Flyfishing with poppers for Smallmouth is a riot.
Some fantastic Canadian Shield scenery if we drive just 1.5 hours north to Georgian Bay.... Walleye, Pike, Muskie, both kinds of Bass. We have plenty of room at our place too so don't worry about accommodation.

Hopefully my boat is going to the paint shop soon.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Glad you enjoyed coming up our way !

Where did you go ?

PS: next time you come if you are nearby we can get out on "Tangles and Snags". Flyfishing with poppers for Smallmouth is a riot.
Some fantastic Canadian Shield scenery if we drive just 1.5 hours north to Georgian Bay.... Walleye, Pike, Muskie, both kinds of Bass. We have plenty of room at our place too so don't worry about accommodation.

Hopefully my boat is going to the paint shop soon.

Hey Mark! We fished Reed Lake. It was great. I was so out of the loop on the boat building community the last year that I did not think about it. I apologize. Next time we are up there we will have to hook up and fish.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress has been made. The stringers and transom laminates have been sealed. Next up they will get glassed into the hull.

I began sealing with a plastic squeegee, and then a brush, and then found my rollers. I used a 3 inch roller and forgot how fast the rollers are at sealing. To me it is by far the preferred method.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:55 pm
by MarkOrge
No apologies necessary ! Heck Peter from Caracao was right in Toronto for a couple days and it couldn't work out... it was during the week and the start of Pan Am gems, and I haves large chuck of City buildings to manage that include the Security contract s so had time to work and sleep and that was it for a few days.

I assume it was Reed Lake Manitoba? Sounds like some great fishing - and on the fly too !

Following your build - glad to hear you are getting some time to work on her !

Cheers,

Mark

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well it has been FOREVER since I posted. I hope everyone is doing well.

A lot of great stuff has been going on. I have successfully launched two new companies over the last 36 months, built a new home and had a third kid in the last 24 months, and started my masters in Family Financial Planning (think investments for families).

With all that said, I did manage to get some work done recently. I laminated the transom today with a friend using SilverTip GelMagic. Now it is 1.5 inches think from top to bottom. Next up I will glass in the transom, and then on to the stringers and bulkheads. At this rate I may get the bulkheads in by say.... 2018. ;)

See ya in two years. jk

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:26 pm
by stickystuff
Casey Jones, Is that you. Ken

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:25 pm
by TomW1
Casey good to hear from you on the forum. Any photos. You still fly fishing or to busy to wet a line.

Tom W

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:08 pm
by willg
Casey, glad to see you're back at it. Now let's see some pics ...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
stickystuff wrote:Casey Jones, Is that you. Ken
It is, and it's nice to be back.
willg wrote:Casey, glad to see you're back at it. Now let's see some pics ...
I will plan to get some taken.
TomW1 wrote:Casey good to hear from you on the forum. Any photos. You still fly fishing or to busy to wet a line.

Tom W
I sure have. Fortunately work took me to FL where I had a chance to fish with a client and caught a red and a drum. I also caught some small specks on a shrimp fly, under the light docs at night.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:06 pm
by TomW1
:D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I was able to get some time in the garage, and worked on filling the fillet around the transom laminates. Next up I will glass the inside of the transom, and then prep for the stringers and bulkheads. Tonight I am ordering more epoxy, fillet, and fairing compound.

Hopefully I will get to work some more on it this month.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:07 am
by LGF
Casey

Just finished reading your entire build, so let me start off by saying Congrats on the two kids that you guys were blessed with, congrats on passing all the exams with flying colors, the build of your new house, refitting the entire garage, or as mine is called "ManCave" and finally congrats with building "Swiss Cheese" :D with such perfection and diligence. Truly amazed !

I am about to start this mad-hatter process, just hoping I could get it build in much less time :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:22 pm
by willg
Good to see your back on it, Casey. Keep us posted.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Will!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Casey

Just finished reading your entire build, so let me start off by saying Congrats on the two kids that you guys were blessed with, congrats on passing all the exams with flying colors, the build of your new house, refitting the entire garage, or as mine is called "ManCave" and finally congrats with building "Swiss Cheese" :D with such perfection and diligence. Truly amazed !

I am about to start this mad-hatter process, just hoping I could get it build in much less time :lol:
Thank you sir. I am glad you are starting a build. It really is a lot of fun.

Here is what I realized, and it made me depressed when I came to this conclusion. The building is so much fun that I don't know what I would do if I finished it. Ok, I suppose I would just build another one. But I figure better safe than sorry, so I'll drag it out and plan to fish on it the day I die - at age 95. ;)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:14 am
by LGF
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's exactly what I am suffering from, I have to be busy all the time, either with some project or another 2 at least :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thankfully I also suffer from a dreaded illness in that I cannot once started leave anything alone until it is finished :help: and I am calling it a "dreaded illness" as it sometimes (almost always) drains the finances severely.

Started on the cowl for the right side of the boat so long as I am awaiting the plans to arrive. Will start with the build of the jack-plate probably this weekend already, thankfully I have completed the previous project that can help with doing this properly, being "EVO 2.infinity" my 4 axis CNC Machine, (EVO = Evolution, 2 = 2nd frame I constructed, and infinity = always have something to add or improve, at least that's what my mind tells me :lol: )

Will also design and cut the switch panels this week, those are planned for 6 illuminated rocker switches and panel mount fuse holders for each circuit. Might have enough time to make some mock-up/s of the bilge and live well circuitry too and check that it functions the way I intend, timers, bi-directional use of the live well pump/s and lights (hi-powered LED blocks) for areas that traditionally require me to wear a headlamp.

No, I am not trying to compete with you in attemting to attach as much gizmo's and gadgets to the rig as she will be able to carry without having the waterline level with the rub-rail, I am getting old, so I have to make things easy for myself and sight amongst other things is becoming an issue :lol:

Best regards
Henk

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:38 am
by Fuzz
I feel for you but totally understand. I have no need for another boat but I really want to build another one. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:21 am
by LGF
I just hope the Phantom doesn't act like the rest of my obsessions, tools and fishing gear, in that "One can never have Too Much" :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:26 am
by LGF
Just returned from the electronics shops with a 2,5k bill already, oh dear, but I accidentally bumped into the shelf that contained flexible strip LED's and thought of illuminating the hatches with these that will automatically turn the hatch light/s on when the lid is opened. This is the single most annoying characteristic I have and this is the same problem I face when going into a tackle store to pick up just one thing and then end up leaving with a trolley full of stuff. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote:I feel for you but totally understand. I have no need for another boat but I really want to build another one. :doh:
Maybe my next one will be smaller. I'm thinking origami.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Just returned from the electronics shops with a 2,5k bill already, oh dear, but I accidentally bumped into the shelf that contained flexible strip LED's and thought of illuminating the hatches with these that will automatically turn the hatch light/s on when the lid is opened. This is the single most annoying characteristic I have and this is the same problem I face when going into a tackle store to pick up just one thing and then end up leaving with a trolley full of stuff. :lol:
It's like legos, but way more expensive. You can just keep connecting things, connecting things, and before you know it you have spent $30,000.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm
by LGF
Oh please NO, our Rand is way less than your $, the exchange rate is R14.00 /1USD so by the end I would've spent roughly R420 000, ouch!

Maybe I should stick to building a scale model ONLY! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyhow, suppose it's too late now, designed and "g-coded" the one switch panel tonight, will cut it out tomorrow. Have the descriptions of the switches and switch holes coded. Planning on inserting flat LED's into slots around the perimeter of the middle layer of plexi-glass so that it illuminates the text that will be machined out to a depth of around 2mm from a 3mm plate.

Also fixed up some nav lights for the rear by removing the old tungsten bulbs and replacing those with high powered LED strips, 3 to a dome and they are way more brighter than the old bulbs could ever be.

Tomorrow I should be able to start in all seriousness on the cowl, just still need to get measurements for dials and the HDS before I start glassing the face of the cowl, pilot side.

When are you venturing into the workshop again Casey, I need a fix of your GR8 skilled work, some eye Candy please?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:When are you venturing into the workshop again Casey, I need a fix of your GR8 skilled work, some eye Candy please?
Sounds like you are making some progress. I hope yours goes faster than mine!

As for venturing into the shop again, I was able to this week. I fillet epoxied the transom laminates, which went well. And tonight I managed to glass the inside of the transom, taped the seams, and doubled the glass where the jack plate installs. I feel pretty good about it all.

Next up, stringers and bulkheads. Hopefully soon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:46 pm
by willg
Casey, when you tape in the stringers, I would highly recommend that you wet out the tape at a comfortable table height rather than wet it out in place. It's faster and won't take the same toll on your body. Build on, bro.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Casey, when you tape in the stringers, I would highly recommend that you wet out the tape at a comfortable table height rather than wet it out in place. It's faster and won't take the same toll on your body. Build on, bro.
I hope to tape them in soon. Excellent advice. I will do just this. Thank you!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made a lot of progress this weekend. I finished up the transom, specifically double-checking some of my measurements for the hardware, and drilled several holes through the other two laminates.

I had three friends come over to help me lift the boat about two inches above the bunks, suspended in four places - two at the back to the front, along the reverse chine. This was to eliminate any flat spots from the bunks. We used a water level to make it true (clear hose with red dyed water).

Next I placed the stringers and bulkheads in, and have positioned the outer two stringers, which I plan to tab in first. Then I can use them to position the height of the inside two stringers.

Between bulkhead A and B, on the top of the outside stringers, I cut off about 1.5 inches to drop the tanks down a little to give a proper slope from the fuel fill to the tank. Neither of these stringers go all the way to bulkhead A per the plans, and just on the outside of these stringers are the solid reverse chines. Each tank will have its own compartment that drains into the bildge in case of a massive fuel leak. From there it could drain out the drain plug. The tanks can be serviced via a hatch.

I have loads of pics and will try to sort some and load them up. You will see where I cut some of the wood out of the stringers and bulkheads to make it easier to run the chase tubes and to conserve a little weight, the scrap will be used for cleats. I imagine some people will disagree with this step but with the added solid reverse chine and the solid strakes I'm not concerned, and I left three to four inches for the biaxel tape.

So far so good.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Picture time.

So these first two are of the final transom glass.

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These pics represent where I began drilling out the epoxy plugs, and used the router to recess the bulkhead fitting into place. The throat of the fitting did not have deep enough threads to go all the way through the 1.5 inch transom. These fittings are for draining the live wells.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
And some more pics...

Here I suspended the hull above the bunks to eliminate any flat spots while I tab and glass in the stringers and bulkheads. I leveled the boat, and plan to glass in the stringers. Then I plan to level the boat again just to be safe, and then I will glass in the bulkheads.

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Here I am tabbing in the stringers, starting from the back of the boat just tabbing in a few spots each evening as I have time. You can see where I glassed an extra layer on the inside of the hull where the jack plate installs.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a couple of additional pics, one of where I cut a little off the top off the stringers between bulkhead A and B, to make room for the fuel tanks. These are the outside stringers. I am not worried, because right through this section is the super thick reverse chine.

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This is a shot of the tank vent.

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Here are a few sweep 90s for the chase tubes. Odd thing, I found 5 of them on the highway, exactly what I was needing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
The boat is drooping a little toward the front, and I know this is common. It does not droop much because of the reverse chine.

I set a stool under the tip of the bow and adjusted it. Any thoughts related to droop?

Next up I will work my way forward tabbing in the stringers, but an considering the droop and stool before I move forward.

Thanks,

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:24 am
by BarraMan
Any thoughts related to droop?
Yeah, happens to the beer of us from time to time.

Try laying off the alcohol for a while! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:58 am
by Wouter
Hi Casey,

Your build is coming along nicely!

I've got the same issue with my transom fittings, not having long enough thread shanks, I never even considered it when I bought the fittings 8) . A bit of a slip up, but I'll make a plan. Not sure what I'm going to do yet as I don't have a router! I might just epoxy them into place.

As to the bow droop. I had the same thing. I also tried a stool/spacer under the bow, however it just lifted the whole boat and didn't get rid of the droop, at least not to my satisfaction. I ended up placing spacers under the bow with a hydraulic jack and placed weights on the stringers between bulkheads c and d, the weights were used to counter the lifting force in the front. The hydraulic jack made it easier to get the exact amount of lift needed and worked very well. I also used a laser level to make sure everything was still plumb. It took a while to get it all set up, but it was worth it.

I hope you get it sorted!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Wouter,

I do have a small jack I am using that is setting on the stool, so it sounds like I'm on the right track. Thanks!

BarraMan,

I wonder if that will take care of the migraine too.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Forum,

Do I have to sand System Three Silver Tip EZ Fillet after it cures, before glassing in the 6 inch tape? I am not sure if I will be able to apply the fillet and glass in the same day from a time standpoint, wet on wet - and of course the tabs that hold the stringers in place have cured as well. I will be using System Three Silver Tip epoxy.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:21 am
by topwater
I dont think you would have a problem glassing as long as you do it with in 24 hour window , 12 hours would
be better. I used silver tip on my boat and did a lot of glassing this way. There is a lot of info on the System three
site.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made some trays to wet out the glass tape for the stringers and bulkheads. I wish I had done this sooner, when I was glassing the hull. I used packing tape on the inside so I can pull all of the cured epoxy back out. Next up, glassing in the stringers.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:51 pm
by BarraMan
Each to their own, I guess. That seemed like a really messy way to apply glass tape, although I know it is commonly used.

I rolled some epoxy onto my fillets if they weren't still wet, then laid the tape down and wet it out with little hard foam rollers. A much neater and cleaner way to do it IMO, if a bit more expensive in roller costs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:22 pm
by topwater
I just rolled some 2 by 2 in plastic and clamped it to the work bench , at the end i have a old cardboard
roll from some 6" tape and i roll the wet tape on to it and roll it back off on the work surface. I use a chip brush and a spreader to wet out the tape , squeeze out the excess epoxy and lay the next section of tape in the tray . ended up using a little
less than 1 OZ per foot of 12 OZ tape. You can lay a lot of tape this way real fast :!:
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote:Each to their own, I guess. That seemed like a really messy way to apply glass tape, although I know it is commonly used.

I rolled some epoxy onto my fillets if they weren't still wet, then laid the tape down and wet it out with little hard foam rollers. A much neater and cleaner way to do it IMO, if a bit more expensive in roller costs.
Good feedback. I have rollers (both foam and the metal type), and will try both to compare. The tray way may indeed be a more wasteful approach, or it may be the rollers. I do one outside stringer with the tray and the other outside stringer with the rollers, and will post up my thoughts. Which ever one seems easier I will do the two inside stringers with that method.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about fillet size. So how big is big enough when making a fillet for a stinger and a bulkhead? The plans call for a 1 inch radius, yet the PH18 kit came with an amount that in no way would cover that much epoxy fillet for the stringers, yet along all of the other fillet construction. I blew through the kit batch long ago and will probably eat up all of a second order just with the stringers.

The 3/4 radius looks really good. I just applied it to one stringer, but can build it up to 1" if totally necessary.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:26 pm
by glossieblack
I've found an approx. 3/8" radius fillet for the stringers worked fine. The wetted 12 oz glass takes that shape without drama.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Sounds good. The outside of the stringer is a smaller angle, I went ahead and used 3/4 since I cut my tool to that radius, and it looked suitable. The inside is already a very large angle so it did not take much epoxy to smooth out that fillet. I was only able to work on one stringer time wise and plan to glass it in tomorrow morning.

Slowly but surely.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:11 am
by willg
Casey, like Glossieblack, 3/8" radius has worked for me. I bought 500 count boxes of craft sticks from Walmart and used them for virtually every fillet. Use one, then toss.

I hope the glassing goes well today. IMO though doing it wet on wet would be easier.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Good to hear form you Will. I read your post after using 3/4 on the outside of the stringer and a little less on the inside.

Boat and family pic time!

I was able to go wet on wet from the fillet to the glass. I completed one stringer this weekend, and that was all. Had to carve out some time for family and other odds and ends.

I found using the tray to be 1,000 times easier than using a squeegee and a roller or brush for applying the glass tape dry to the hull or to the hull that has wet or tacky epoxy. There is virtually no waste, and putting on the glass was super easy after wetting it out in the tray. I then scraped the tray with the squeegee and used any excess on any dryer spots, flattening out any bubbles with a squeegee. I used the other methods when I glassed on the tape for the hull and transom and can see that this is the preferred method, at least for me. Here are some pics.

This is what the 3/4 fillet ended up looking like. It worked very well. 3/8th would be even easier and use less fillet material.

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First I wet out the glass in the tray, starting with the bottom layer of glass.

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Here is a shot after everything was wet out. I used a squeegee to wet it out.

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I then set the whole tray in the boat and slid it along as I flipped the glass up onto the stringer.

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Here is the completed stringer.

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Here is the smaller tray I made for smaller pieces of fabric, like the fabric I cut for the transom. It worked like a champ.

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And here is the tray holding the tape just before applying to the boat.

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I also used the remaining excess epoxy, added some filler, and used a tongue depressor to push the thickened epoxy into any low pockets or dry spots on the glass where the epoxy had settled, like right here at the very tip of the stringer. It was hard for the glass to make it around the tip so the thickened epoxy filled in the matrix where it lifted a little.

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Here is an updated pic of Summer and I. We obviously weren't looking at where the camera was. And one of my youngest I snapped just after getting him out of his car seat. He is growing up too fast.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I picked up Class 200 irrigation pipe for the chase tubes, because it is lighter than schedule 40. I am using schedule 80 on the ends, since I found 5 on the highway.

I glassed in the second stringer today. I have the two center stringers to glass in and then I will begin on the bulkheads.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
topwater wrote:I just rolled some 2 by 2 in plastic and clamped it to the work bench , at the end i have a old cardboard
roll from some 6" tape and i roll the wet tape on to it and roll it back off on the work surface. I use a chip brush and a spreader to wet out the tape , squeeze out the excess epoxy and lay the next section of tape in the tray . ended up using a little
less than 1 OZ per foot of 12 OZ tape. You can lay a lot of tape this way real fast :!:
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Your work looks great, and very clean. I worked on another stringer today and the box used for wetting out the epoxy is definitely the way to go. I have a portable box, which makes it easy to wet out on the work bench, and then rest the whole box in the hull of the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Quick question for other PH18 builders, and maybe most Bateau designs assuming many of the lamination schedules are the same with similar sized boats.

It appears as if the stringers and bulkheads are taped with 6 inch tape, and then the whole box is covered with biaxial glass. Is that correct?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:59 am
by willg
Casey, you need the tape on each joint in each stringer box, but you do not need to biax the whole box on top of that. I understand the confusion, I was confused as well. This has been gone over a couple of times in the forum but I couldn't begin to tell you where.

Here's mine.
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Casey, you need the tape on each joint in each stringer box, but you do not need to biax the whole box on top of that. I understand the confusion, I was confused as well. This has been gone over a couple of times in the forum but I couldn't begin to tell you where.
Very helpful! Thank you!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This heat is nuts! To beat the heat, and to make working on the boat in the winter comfortable, I ordered a split ac/heater, 18,000 BTU for the garage. This will help with all of my projects. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:04 pm
by jorgepease
good system, looks great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Finally got back to the boat. I almost have the new AC fully installed. A little bit of electrical work and an AC guy to vac the lines and it is good to go.

I finished glassing in the stringers. Now I am working on fitting the bulkheads. I only need to round up one sheet of 1/4 inch Okoume ply, but other than that I pretty much am done purchasing any wood.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:45 pm
by Jeff
flyfishingmonk, get us some updated photos when possible!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote:flyfishingmonk, get us some updated photos when possible!! Jeff
Will do!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:28 pm
by TomW1
Casey glad to see you back at it. I bought CL OD18 so if you ever want to take a vacation up this way I'll put you on some of the best trout streams in the east. Take care guy and best wishes to you and the family.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote:Casey glad to see you back at it. I bought CL OD18 so if you ever want to take a vacation up this way I'll put you on some of the best trout streams in the east. Take care guy and best wishes to you and the family.

Tom
I would love that Tom!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a couple pics of the stringers. They turned out nice. Since I lengthened the boat about 2 feet I had to add a little more wood to the two middle stringers at the very bow, just to conserve some of the fillet epoxy.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the first floor section going down. I fortunately cut it almost exactly to fit on the first pass. I had to shave about 1/4 off in two small sections on each side, and notched for the middle bulkhead, and it fell into place. The gap looks bigger than it is between the deck and the inside of the hull. It is about 1/4 to 3/8ths.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:17 pm
by glossieblack
Very nice work. I bet it felt like progress starting to get the sole dry fitted. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:34 pm
by Jeff
Very clean work!! Nice!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys! Yes it feels good to see the actual floor of the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:52 am
by LGF
Nice Casey, needed to see this to get me motivated again, December seems so far away.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Nice Casey, needed to see this to get me motivated again, December seems so far away.
You can do it. Here I am after all these years still working at it.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got the second section of floor fitted.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:15 am
by LGF
I know I'll make it, just going through some slightly stained waters now, anyhow enough of the negative.

That is sure looking Good Casey.

Just a question, how did you go about getting the sheer curvature in the sole as per your last picture? I have an idea of measuring the width of the section of the sole, cut those two cuts, lay it against the sheer on one side and use the washer/pencil trick to profile at least one edge, cut that and use the off-cut to duplicate the other end from two points referring to the length of the sole section.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:18 am
by LGF
Also just a note, is the sole still going to fit once you've glassed your bulkheads in, looking at the far right of the fisrt picture in your post?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Also just a note, is the sole still going to fit once you've glassed your bulkheads in, looking at the far right of the first picture in your post?
I'll trim the corners of the sole to fit the radius of the fillet. Looks like I will need to take off maybe 3/8 or so to make room. Good eye!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:I know I'll make it, just going through some slightly stained waters now, anyhow enough of the negative.

That is sure looking Good Casey.

Just a question, how did you go about getting the sheer curvature in the sole as per your last picture? I have an idea of measuring the width of the section of the sole, cut those two cuts, lay it against the sheer on one side and use the washer/pencil trick to profile at least one edge, cut that and use the off-cut to duplicate the other end from two points referring to the length of the sole section.
I'll snap a pic of how I measured it and will post it for ya.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:I know I'll make it, just going through some slightly stained waters now, anyhow enough of the negative.

That is sure looking Good Casey.

Just a question, how did you go about getting the sheer curvature in the sole as per your last picture? I have an idea of measuring the width of the section of the sole, cut those two cuts, lay it against the sheer on one side and use the washer/pencil trick to profile at least one edge, cut that and use the off-cut to duplicate the other end from two points referring to the length of the sole section.
Here is what I did for the curvature. I simply started with the widest measurement and cut my plywood (see photo - 40.5 x 2 = 81 inches ). I then took 4 more cross section measurements on one foot center, for a total of five correction measurements. I then marked a centerline on the plywood, and marked 1/2 the distance both ways to get the right symmetry. I then set a batten down to mark the curve along the lines and made my cut. On the second floor piece I did not have to make any additional cuts to the curve. Fit like a champ and took very little time. I slowed down a bit on my measurements for it, so that made a difference.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:35 pm
by LGF
Sorry Casey, I suffer from having too much of a perfectionist streak in me, had cost me dearly in the past, Case in point I even rebuilt a perfectly good machine, just because I thought it wasn't good enough. Double the cost, double the time and the outcome was not that much better, :lol:

Thanks for the explanation and it is Much much easier the way you've done it. Learning something new everyday!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet. I'm not sure how other people have done it. I have heard some use a card board template. This way seemed easy enough, was quick, and gave just the room needed to push the fillet epoxy down into the groove.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does anyone know any reason that I couldn't use 1/4 inch ply between the second to last bulkhead and the last bulkhead instead of 1/2 ply? I imagine the 1/2 is used because the plywood works out well for cutting out the floor of the boat with the sheets on the plans. However, I plan to have it be built into two fiberglassed wells, one for bait and one for the fish, and it will only hold gear 95% of the time.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote:Does anyone know any reason that I couldn't use 1/4 inch ply between the second to last bulkhead and the last bulkhead instead of 1/2 ply? I imagine the 1/2 is used because the plywood works out well for cutting out the floor of the boat with the sheets on the plans. However, I plan to have it be built into two fiberglassed wells, one for bait and one for the fish, and it will only hold gear 95% of the time.

Casey
I am going to guess this is fine, as I picked up a sheet of 1/4 Okoume today, and plan to start cutting it up for some of the sole sections that are not human weight bering (a small area near the bow that will hold life jackets, the bait well, and the live well). The figure the bait well and the live well will already be extra strong since I will be glassing those in to such a degree that they have nice rounded corners, and every square inch glassed to keep keep the structure strong and water tight.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of the progress of the sole, the area toward the bow for the fuel tanks. Here are some pics. These took a little more time to fit. I made a first pass measuring similar to how I did the two large sole ply pieces, and then crept up to the right measurement with additional passes using my jig saw.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:03 pm
by LGF
Looking very good Casey.

How are you planning to secure the fuel tanks? And, will you have separate fillers or just the one on port side?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Looking very good Casey.

How are you planning to secure the fuel tanks? And, will you have separate fillers or just the one on port side?
Good questions. Not sure yet how I will secure them. What is the conventional method?

I have a fuel fill for each side.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This makes it all worth it - all three kids hanging out as we work on the boat. Jude, our youngest, loved vacuuming up the sawdust, and double checking the measurements of the live wells. :D

The wood for the base of the live well fit nicely, as did the floor for the front locker (the one Jude is standing on between the fuel tanks). The one board behind the pic of Jude with the tape measurer is just a scrap piece.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:57 am
by LGF
You're moving on nicely now. And it's about time LOL, the dry spell went on for too long :lol:

I've seen fuel tanks secured with either straps anchored to the "floor" and again at the "wall", in you case that would be the panels the tanks are resting on and against. Have also seen some High Density foam spacers between the tank/s and the wooden panels.

Another is a method similar to your vehicles battery clamp, threaded rod with a bar running across the top.

Just remember that you're using plastic tanks and they do contract and expand depending on temperature. I would serious investigate some sort of automatic adjustable i.e. have a spring on one end of the belt/bar that would compensate for the fuel tank distortion.

Think I'll be fitting a stainless tank, seems there's a place just up North from here, about 30 min drive that makes tanks for "kit-cars" according to specs supplied by the customer and the "nice nice" about it is that it costs less than the "plastic" tank/s for the same capacity.

I suppose you're placing bait and live well up front to help with weight distribution? Remembering that you 18' Phantom is actually 20' if I'm not mistaken?

On the filler cap/s. Is it the convential method of placing them in the shear as opposed to on the deck next to the gunnels? I am asking as I'm thinking of water being forced into the system being on the shear. Also wondering if filling wouldn't be easier if it was located on the deck rather than on the shear?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:56 am
by Cracker Larry
On the filler cap/s. Is it the convential method of placing them in the shear as opposed to on the deck next to the gunnels? I am asking as I'm thinking of water being forced into the system being on the shear. Also wondering if filling wouldn't be easier if it was located on the deck rather than on the shear?
It's against CG regulation to mount them in the deck. They can't be placed anywhere that allows a fuel spill inside the boat. The conundrum is it's against EPA regulations to put them where a fuel spill could end up in the water :doh: They should be on the gunwale somewhere.
Think I'll be fitting a stainless tank, seems there's a place just up North from here, about 30 min drive that makes tanks for "kit-cars"
Are you sure they are stainless and not aluminum? I don't think stainless takes are approved for gasoline. Speedy Tank will build you a fine custom aluminum and dimension you want. They cost about $10 per gallon, plus about $100 shipping. They do a great job.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:49 am
by BarraMan
If those are Moeller tanks you can buy Moeller restraints for them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:52 am
by Jeff
BarraMan/Cracker Larry, can you guys tell me where Speedy Tank and Moeller are located and if possible I would like to have their website address. Thank you in advance, Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Larry, LGF, BarraMan,

Thanks for the feedback! As for the tanks, they are Moeller. Since I already own them I think I like the ratchet strap idea and will make enough space for expansion. They will be accessable through a removable side panel from the center locker, so if they fail in the future I can fix them or replace them.
Cracker Larry wrote:It's against CG regulation to mount them in the deck. They can't be placed anywhere that allows a fuel spill inside the boat. The conundrum is it's against EPA regulations to put them where a fuel spill could end up in the water :doh: They should be on the gunwale somewhere.
The area I had in my mind was either on the gunwale or the deck. Sounds like the deck option is out. I was originally planning to place them just back from the front deck on the gunwale so they are out of the way of the person fishing on the front deck, less places to snag fly line on. So CG is ok with the 12 inch gunwale? It seems like a spill there would run both directions, in the boat and over the side. Thoughts?

I took a pic of where I want to install them and uploaded it into my builder's gallery but am having trouble getting the url of the pic from my phone to place into this thread. I can post it later or you can see it by going to this link. See the small circles on the scale model.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pid=61669

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:01 am
by Cracker Larry
Speedy tanks only sell direct.

http://www.speedytanks.com/

Moeller are carried by almost every marine supply store. Just do a google search on Moeller gas tanks. Thousands of them. 58, 200 according to google :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:04 am
by Cracker Larry
Casey, glad to see you back at it :D Your family has certainly grown since I met you. 8)

Is this the picture you were trying to post?

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:19 am
by Jeff
Thank you CR!! I will look at both tank suppliers just for my own education!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Casey, glad to see you back at it :D Your family has certainly grown since I met you. 8)

Is the picture you were trying to post?
Thank you sir. I hope you are doing well, and I look forward to the next time we can connect. The last few years have been so busy with the growing family and new companies. Things have been getting more normal the last 6 months, allowing me the time to dive back into the boat.

That is the correct picture. I wonder if those fuel fill locations are accepted.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Those locations should be fine. Maybe the next time you come it won't be 35 degrees, windy and raining like it was the last time.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Those locations should be fine. Maybe the next time you come it won't be 35 degrees, windy and raining like it was the last time.
Even with the rain it was a good time hanging out and looking over plans!

Thanks for the heads up on the fill location. Ill pull them back from the deck onto the gunwales.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Has anyone used one of these for their fuel tank (first pic)? This looks like a decent product for securing the fuel tanks. I like the lock feature.

As for the straps to secure the boat to the trailer, I am looking at a product from the same company. Thoughts?

Here are the pics of both.

BoatBuckle Kwik-Lok Gas Tank or Battery Box Tie-Down Strap - 1" x 4'

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BoatBuckle G2 Retractable, Ratcheting Transom Tie-Downs - 2" x 43" - 833 lbs

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:00 pm
by seaslug
Speedy Tanks built my little 5 gallon tank for my FS18 and they were a pleasure to deal with and got my measurements including fitting locations dead on. Not cheap, but hey it's for a boat. Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:03 pm
by Cracker Larry
It gets cheaper by the gallon. They have built 5 custom tanks for me. the largest being 55 gallons for a big Grady White. Every one was almost perfect, except for Rogerdog's GF18 which they missed my fitting specifications a little bit, but it was still workable. The 55 gallon was just over $500 plus $100 shipping. I think we got the 34+- gallon tank for the GF18 for about $500 shipped, A 20 gallon tank for an FS18 I think was about $400 shipped. They are epoxy coated and every fitting and mounting bracket exactly where you want it. Usually, almost :lol: They are a good company to deal with.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:06 am
by LGF
Sorry for the post -jacking Casey?

Larry, so what you're saying is the Aluminium tanks is the way to go and also "speedytanks" will ship International?

As for the location of the filler caps? Just a thought, remember we stay in Africa, and as recently discovered with the fish finder dilemma we have different regulations etc. than you guys over there. The thought, if I am to install portable plastic fuel tanks and need to fill those, the filling will be done below deck that also creates a serious, even bigger, chance for spillage. my main concern is with water getting into the fuel, seen what that does and the boat wasn't built for the swell we encountered!

I'd much rather have a recessed area in the fore deck, as close to the tank/s as possible, with the filler cap/s raised within the area and a drainage pipe from the lower parts of the recessed area to the bilge.
An alternative could be to place it in the slant of the gunnel towards the outside, building a bass-rig, but to then get some sort of latch type cover that could have a proper rubber seal. just a thought.

sorry for the jack Casey.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
No prob LGF. Interesting stuff.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about livewells and baitwells.

Will two 30 gallon wells suffice? Or if I need to, I can make one smaller, and one bigger. Basically I have the whole width of the boat to work with, which is about 7 feet long, and 2 feet wide.

I can fit two 30 gallon wells under the bench seat, and still leave the middle for dry storage. They would each be about 30 x 23 x 12, which is actually a 34 gallon capacity, but I would not fill them to the top, so I estimate closer to 30.

I rarely if ever fish with bait. I usually chase bass and red fish with a fly. However, with the kids, I think they would prefer to bait fish while they are young. So the wells may get some use.

Here is a pic of the layout. I prefer not to go below the top of the stringers. I pretty much have all the hardware purchased, and just need to think through the size.

Do you ever see a need for something larger than 30 gallons? If so, I would make one 30 gallons, and one closer to 50, and eliminate the dry storage in the middle. This layout is what is shown in the pic (40% bait well, and 60% live well, going all the way across the width of the boat).

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:14 pm
by LGF
:lol: shelved this stumbling around with the size issue for now, my issue was with depth of the wells seeing as the height between the top of the sole and the underside of the deck, makes for a rather shallow well. Thought of sinking it through the sole a measure or two so that it would fit between the stringers, but then it limits the size circumference of the wells and also have the tendency to mess up the layout of having them close side by side in the middle of the width of the boat.

As for the sizes you're looking at, the 60% live well seems very large. Even the 40% well seems rather excessive to what I'll be needing. The biggest I plan on installing is two 16 gal wells which is quite a lot of water especially with automated aerators on a 1, 3 or 7 minute cycle.

On the lighter side if you install the 60% size well, you could always take the boat home, lift the hatch, get the kids on the deck with rods and reels and they could "fish" your catches from the small pond on your boat! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah I think I am leaning toward the two 30 gallon on the sides, even with the limited height constraint. So the height I am not too worried about, simply because the volume of water is so large, and of course for bait, they will be ok in 10 inches.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:46 pm
by Marshall Moser
If you don't fish with live bait, why the two wells? I'm going to put one in the center and storage on either side.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Marshall Moser wrote:If you don't fish with live bait, why the two wells? I'm going to put one in the center and storage on either side.
Good question. I plan to be able to have live bait for the kid's fishing. I think the action will be better and it will keep their attention. They are 8, 5, and 2. I might even convince my wife to reel one in. And of course they will mainly be used for storage when not in use. The only thing that will distinguish them from lockers will be the fill, the drain, and the more rounded corners.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:38 pm
by Marshall Moser
If you insulate around them, they can be fish boxes/coolers. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Marshall Moser wrote:If you insulate around them, they can be fish boxes/coolers. 8)
I had the same thought.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:00 pm
by LGF
One more thought I am battling with is how to install baffles onto the top sides of the wells. Thought of making a plug and the starting with gelcoat build the wells, add insulation, and finally cover with a sheet of ply, which would then be built into the hull/onto sole, under the deck and against the bulkheads, however due to the smaller diameter the baffles would create, this would not be possible. So I might still build the plugs and then the wells starting with the gel, but then how do I add the baffles afterwards.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:08 pm
by BarraMan
I also rarely bait fish, but I have 2 x 40 US gallon live-well/icebox/ballast tanks in my boat. They are both plumbed to pump water in and out and both have overflow outlets. At this stage only one has a closed loop recirculating aerator.

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They are both insulated with 8" of Microlen foam underneath and 2" of foam in the sides. I will use them for storage and as iceboxes as required and for keeping dinner in good condition if I am away fishing in some remote location. Occasionally I will pump them up with ballast water to produce a good wake for wake boarders in my family.

My boat is BIG so I could put 8" of foam under them to get the bottom of the wells up a bit and to get more flotation foam into the boat. Not really applicable to a Phantom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:53 am
by Walkers Run
I fish a lot with live bait. I have a dedicated 30 gal. live well on the center line. And two insulated boxes that are plumbed as live wells also. I have yet to need anything but the 30 gal.
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan - those look really good.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Walkers Run - that is very helpful info. I think then if I just use two 30 gallon, one on each side with dry storage in the middle, I should be good to go.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I glassed, on one side, the inside of the boat with 6 oz. This is the wood exposed above the sole. I wanted something to protect the wood from it getting bonked with fishing reels, gear, feet, etc. Next up I will glass the other side with 6 oz.

The epoxy plug for the drain tube worked out, at least I think it will be close enough once I get the floor glued down and then glassed in. (see photo of the black epoxy).

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:53 pm
by danieloldhouse
Sorry guys, can someone explain me the difference between livewell and baitwell? :oops: I tried to find a translation but couldn't find one

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
danieloldhouse wrote:Sorry guys, can someone explain me the difference between livewell and baitwell? :oops: I tried to find a translation but couldn't find one
I just think of a baitwell as the one the bait goes in, and the livewell as the one you toss your catch in before either releasing it back into the water after a weigh-in, or before cleaning it at the end of the day, which could be 8 or 10 hours after the catch.

If they are one in the same, you run the risk of your catch eating your bait.

Hope this helps.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:16 pm
by jacquesmm
Live bait is kept in a livewell while in a baitwell, you keep any bait, live or frozen.
The livewell is a more sophisticated version of the baitwell with a circulation pump, drain etc.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
And there you have it. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:50 pm
by danieloldhouse
Thank you Casey and Jacques, now it's all clear

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:59 am
by LGF
:lol: what about a live-bait-well? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just kidding, thanx for explanation, never thought of the frozen baits, but then again I only use that fishing in the surf off the beach.

Casey, your build is also coming in very well now. Just a question, when you make the epoxy "plug/s", how do you make them. Do you just mix epoxy with fiber and cabo and plug it into the hole? Do you guys cut recesses on either side of the hole to ensure the plug stays in the hole, meaning that the plug will form a lip on the in and outside of the hole, yet flush with the wood?

And then lastly, obviously it gets glassed in I suppose?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote:Casey, your build is also coming in very well now. Just a question, when you make the epoxy "plug/s", how do you make them. Do you just mix epoxy with fiber and cabo and plug it into the hole? Do you guys cut recesses on either side of the hole to ensure the plug stays in the hole, meaning that the plug will form a lip on the in and outside of the hole, yet flush with the wood?

And then lastly, obviously it gets glassed in I suppose?
Good question. I have wondered the same but ended up just filling the oversized hole, and then glassing both sides. I assume the glass will hold it in, and the bond into the wood fibers will suffice. However, I suppose one could tear out but it would take a lot of pulling on whatever is inside it. So the drain tubes and the fuel vents should be fine, no stress on them.

As for the transom, it's three inches thick so there I am not worried, especially since I have a backer plate for the boat motor.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:27 pm
by BarraMan
Epoxy loves wood so much that it bonds to it like crazy. Make a test model - cut a hole in a piece of ply and fill it with epoxy/woodflour, then once hardened see if you can bust it out. I suspect the ply will break before the epoxy-to-wood bond lets go.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:49 pm
by LGF
Casey that's what I thought too, but still think that a lip on either side of the ply would strengthen the plug's hold. As for plumbing and the likes I don't think it's all that necessary, but will endeavor that on the more stressed points, i.e. jack-plate bolts through the transom, trawl motor area and the bow and transom eyes.

As for the transom being 3'' thick, how does one get the ply panels to be one laminate, without any deformation wrt being thicker at one end than the other, also, are you planning on installing transom knees? Can't remember if you posted something like that yet.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
To achieve the notch, it may be easiest to take a round rasp and open the end of the hole up like a flange on both sides. I imagine that would be quick and would ensure the strength you are looking for. However, I agree with BarraMan, the glue will bond and the wood would then break with stress probably with our without any notch or flange.

As for the knees, I am not planning on adding any. However, I may make three lockers toward the back of the boat and building them with 1/4 ply and glassing them in would add more strength, because of the dividers and glass.

Regarding the transom laminates, I made the boat with the original plans of 1/2 ply, then laminated to pieces together flat on my work bench that were the same measurements as the inside of the transom. I then cut them even smaller around the edges and took off some of the fiberglass with a 5 inch grinder to get the two additional laminates to lay really flat, and then used thickened epoxy to glue the two new laminates to the inside of the transom.

Below is a picture of the additional two laminates, and then the final three laminates together.

Casey

Image

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:32 am
by danieloldhouse
It's always amusing for me to see your transom Casey, it looks like you used your boat on the D-Day :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
danieloldhouse wrote:It's always amusing for me to see your transom Casey, it looks like you used your boat on the D-Day :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's from my army of trained termites. They went a little overboard.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:23 pm
by danieloldhouse
As for the livewell, what do you think guys about Flow-rite? It looks like they make a good product and, for me, an important aspect is that they sell worldwide having their own online shop but I'd like to know your opinion or if you have other suggestions

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
danieloldhouse wrote:As for the livewell, what do you think guys about Flow-rite? It looks like they make a good product and, for me, an important aspect is that they sell worldwide having their own online shop but I'd like to know your opinion or if you have other suggestions
I am not too familiar with them as this will be my first livewell. However, I think some of the parts I ordered are Flow-rite.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:26 pm
by danieloldhouse
Thanx Casey, what do you think about the quality of the materials they use?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
danieloldhouse wrote:Thanx Casey, what do you think about the quality of the materials they use?
Now that I look closer I am not sure it is the same mfg. Here is a pic of what I have picked up. They all seem to be made of pretty high quality.

The valves are Forespar. The pump is a Rule. The ringed fitting is basically a Banjo coupeling and I plan to use it to connect a water hose to flush the livewell/baitwell system. The other directional valve I am not sure and would have to do a little digging. But it looks similar to the company you mentioned.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have been working on the cockpit coaming. However, I see two different dimensions for the coaming. I see 2 x 3/8ths on the instructions, and on the plans it is larger, I think 2 x 1. I ended up using 1 3/4 x 1/2, and have glass up both sides of the hull under the coaming. I figure it will suffice. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. So far it is coming along very well and seems nice and rigid.

I am learning to work much faster, and not worrying about the detail of cuts for example, since the thickened epoxy covers and fills a lot of gaps. One example of this is the quick cuts on the bandsaw for the coaming splices (see wavy cut in splice pic).

You can see how I have managed the splice. The cuts toward the bow are a little more funky because the wood bends only in one direction, so the splices will be much larger. When it is glued up I will post more pics.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:05 pm
by cape man
So far it is coming along very well and seems nice and rigid.
Looks good to me and if it's stiff enough for you it will work. I have to say it...

Looks like your coming is coming along fine. :D 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote:Looks good to me and if it's stiff enough for you it will work. I have to say it...

Looks like your coming is coming along fine. :D 8)
Thanks! Tonight I hope to epoxy more pieces on.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:37 pm
by danieloldhouse
flyfishingmonk wrote:
danieloldhouse wrote:Thanx Casey, what do you think about the quality of the materials they use?
Now that I look closer I am not sure it is the same mfg. Here is a pic of what I have picked up. They all seem to be made of pretty high quality.

The valves are Forespar. The pump is a Rule. The ringed fitting is basically a Banjo coupeling and I plan to use it to connect a water hose to flush the livewell/baitwell system. The other directional valve I am not sure and would have to do a little digging. But it looks similar to the company you mentioned.

Casey

Image
Thanks for the picture, the fittings seem different from the ones sold on Flow-rite's site, but however they look sturdy, the Rule pump as I understand is one of the best on the market for that use

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
Rule pumps are all I ever use. Never seen one fail, or catch on fire either.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Cracker Larry wrote:Rule pumps are all I ever use. Never seen one fail, or catch on fire either.
That is encouraging, because I purchased two of them. One for the sump, and one for the wells.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The coaming on the front of the boat is coming along nicely.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I ordered an electric hand planer from Makita to make fast work of leveling out the coaming and the transom to receive the deck. I'll post up how it goes once finished.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:37 am
by willg
Hey Casey, good to see your latest work. Looks great, keep it up!

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Hey Casey, good to see your latest work. Looks great, keep it up!

Will
Thanks Will!

Today I finished the coaming with the exception of a little more epoxy. Next up I plan to level it out with this little gem. I am headed to the hardware store to pick up a 78 inch level to help with the work.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I picked up this 96 inch level to help with the coaming, and the other parts of the boat like the floor and deck. Dad and I are also working on a project at a ministry in April and this will come in very handy.

Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 am
by Eric1
That's gonna be very handy! I may pick one up for my build!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:56 am
by Jeff
I agree with Eric, very useful tool!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:38 am
by topwater
Be careful , it can turn into WMD . Ask me how i know :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
topwater wrote:Be careful , it can turn into WMD . Ask me how i know :wink:
How do you know?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:01 pm
by cvincent
Your coaming looks nice and level, good job. I may have to pick up a power planer/WMD in the near future.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:08 am
by Fuzz
Those power planers can be real handy, or real bad, I used mine to remove a butt block that was on the wrong side. Just took a couple of minutes and I had a nice big pile of saw dust.
Your boat is looking good. Keep it up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Looking good Casey! I don't own a power plane either, but I've got at least 6 hand planes. I love using hand tools when I can, and the swish of a sharp plane shaving wood is very satisfying to me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:18 am
by topwater
Just take your time with it and do not try to take to much off in 1 pass. I have ruined more than one part i was
making by being in a rush or not paying attention to what i doing .

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys. I will proceed with caution regarding the power planer. Fortunately I grew up using my dad's Bosch. So I will take it slow.

Agreed Larry, the hand tools are definitely nice. I need to get something to sharpen mine.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
A question regarding the placement of the fire extinguisher.

Is there any regulation related to where it is placed on a boat? I was thinking of the center console, on the side, out of the way.

Any feedback will be helpful.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:58 pm
by Fuzz
I do not know about regs but I can tell you it needs to be placed where it is easy to see and to get at whens things are going bad.
I had a fire on a boat once, the crew had placed the extinguishers up in the forepeak instead of where I told them to. Trying to find them almost cost us the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:07 pm
by cape man
On the side of the console and visible. I tell everyone that gets on my boat, "there's the extinguisher, the life vests are there, and the horn and flares are here." Something happens to me I'll need them to act.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:49 pm
by Cracker Larry
On the side of the console and visible. I tell everyone that gets on my boat, "there's the extinguisher, the life vests are there, and the horn and flares are here." Something happens to me I'll need them to act.
X2

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote:On the side of the console and visible. I tell everyone that gets on my boat, "there's the extinguisher, the life vests are there, and the horn and flares are here." Something happens to me I'll need them to act.
Thanks guys! That is where I will put it.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote:I do not know about regs but I can tell you it needs to be placed where it is easy to see and to get at whens things are going bad.
I had a fire on a boat once, the crew had placed the extinguishers up in the forepeak instead of where I told them to. Trying to find them almost cost us the boat.
Thanks Fuzz - good input!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
I had an opportunity to work with my dad on the center console. We worked three days on it. Dad is the brains of the operation, having built projects as large as airports, to as small as church chapels. We had such a great time while my mom and wife got to hang out with the three littles.

I had built the base and frame sections awhile back, and we had the dash cut out. The frame pieces work as both the round over on the outside and a large fillets for the inside in one piece. On the dash I will have to do a little round over work, but not much.

My favorite part is where the mounting board for the helm locks into a horizontal frame piece as a key. I also like how the steering column and throttle control are coming together.

I plan to have Larry's friend make a couple of small grab rails for it. I am working on a niche that holds the fire extinguisher, and it will be mounted on the right side of the center console, where it is easy to see and grab.

Here are the pics of the progress. The last pic is of me working on the table saw. Too much dust has collected in the tilt and lift mechanism and I have to clean it. The gears have never been cleaned and I have had it for almost 15 years, so it is getting a little stiff.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:24 pm
by poleposition
^
Really pretty work.....

On the fire extinguisher, I see a lot of inserts on the side of the console---makes for a nice visible presentation that doesnt get in the way. There are quite a few pics here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=fire+ex ... C_8QsAQIHg

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:44 pm
by danieloldhouse
8O nice console Casey! You're doing a beautiful work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:53 pm
by TomW1
Really nice work Casey! :D

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:25 pm
by terrulian
Excellent joinery. :D
Yes, clean the saw! I tuned up mine about 6 months ago and was very pleased with the difference.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:04 pm
by seaslug
That's a beautiful console, and some outstanding workmanship and planning. And to build it with your dad is that much better. I have a son that will be 15 this winter, and I hope someday he'll be interested enough to get involved in one of my building projects.... Had the same issue with my thickness planer after years of use, where I could hardly turn it up or down. Amazing what a little cleaning and lube will do.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks everybody! I like how it is taking shape. It is a lot of fun. Projects with family are the best, and we had three generations out there last weekend.

The table saw is back in order. Works like a champ. I also glued up part of the helm mount/steering cowling. I like how it is coming along and plan to work on the top rounded part of the steering cowling next.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:58 am
by Dustinwg
Casey, console is coming along great! Really like how you worked out the corners, that will make glassing a lot cleaner and easier.

One question though, what do you have going in on the starboard side of the console? Where you have the kerf cut plywood?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Dustinwg wrote:Casey, console is coming along great! Really like how you worked out the corners, that will make glassing a lot cleaner and easier.

One question though, what do you have going in on the starboard side of the console? Where you have the kerf cut plywood?
Good question. That is a housing for the side mount throttle control. I did not like their binnacle mount control box. It was plastic and we thought a nice custom box would look better.

This picture shows the throttle control with more detail.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:42 pm
by Jeff
Casey, send me more photos of your console as I would like to use them on the website!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
You bet. I sure will.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made some more progress. This evening I started on the steering cowling and it is going well. This is as far as I got before I had to shut it down. I hope to start back up on it soon.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:19 am
by peter-curacao
Really nice work, maybe a idea for you're next more complicated shapes, use 2 parts foam covered with biax, it really shapes very nice with a sander, I used it on the corners of my cc.
Again just an idea, also you can leave the foam or peal it out once the shell is hardened, here's what I mean.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:59 pm
by willg
Casey, really nice design work and craftsmanship. That is going to be a very sharp console!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:Really nice work, maybe a idea for you're next more complicated shapes, use 2 parts foam covered with biax, it really shapes very nice with a sander, I used it on the corners of my cc.
Again just an idea, also you can leave the foam or peal it out once the shell is hardened, here's what I mean.
Thanks Peter. I remember your nice work when you build this. Great idea with the foam!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:40 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Casey, really nice design work and craftsmanship. That is going to be a very sharp console!
Thanks Will! I am glad I have had an opportunity to work on it some.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made a little more progress tonight on the steering column. I used 5 min epoxy for this section of the console. It made working with the strips of wood pretty quick, because as it was setting up I would be cutting the next strip to the right length and cutting on the angles on the ends of the strips so they would lay relatively flat against the wood.

Eventually I will sand it smooth, taking down the high edges and filling any low spots. But that will probably come later after I have glued up the majority of the console.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:01 am
by terrulian
8) 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:51 am
by peter-curacao
Looking good, just one remark you do know that 5 minute epoxy isn't recommended for long-term bonds don't you?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:Looking good, just one remark you do know that 5 minute epoxy isn't recommended for long-term bonds don't you?
Not to worry, it's going to get glassed on both sides with the good stuff, and the 5 min has a 4400 psi strength. The part that the helm mounts to will also be glued and glassed with the product from Bateau. If I had used the slow cure it would have taken days to accomplish what took two sittings with the 5 min epoxy.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:58 am
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote:
peter-curacao wrote:Looking good, just one remark you do know that 5 minute epoxy isn't recommended for long-term bonds don't you?
Not to worry, it's going to get glassed on both sides with the good stuff, and the 5 min has a 4400 psi strength. The part that the helm mounts to will also be glued and glassed with the product from Bateau. If I had used the slow cure it would have taken days to accomplish what took two sittings with the 5 min epoxy.

Casey
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More progress on the console. The bottom two are of the niche for the fire extinguisher.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:23 pm
by peter-curacao
You're putting a lot of work and detail in that, that's gonna be a mighty fine console! very nice work Image

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:You're putting a lot of work and detail in that, that's gonna be a mighty fine console! very nice work Image
Thanks Peter! I like how it is taking shape. I hope to jump back into the project next weekend.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:30 pm
by willg
Looking good, Casey!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Looking good, Casey!
Thanks Will!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Dad came to town this weekend while mom was at a quilt conference. We worked two and a half days straight, and got a lot of work done.

We managed to set pretty much all of the conduit, and positioned the console (pics below). We started with four stainless steel plates, each six by nine inches. We took off a little extra metal with a worm drive saw. We then picked up a couple of bits for steel and drilled three holes in each, two for under the cockpit sole, and one for above the inside floor of the console. The Dewalt bits worked well.

After we got the four plates positioned we then worked on the base of the console, cutting with a jig saw four slots in the base, that allow the metal to pass through. Two stainless steel angle iron pieces will then old the console down onto the boat. We will drill the holes for the angle steel after the console is installed for the last time, getting the whole much closer than we could now. The console will actually sit on four rubber feet, each 1/2 inch thick. Below the sole, each stringer is reinforced with 1.5 inches of plywood that runs between the bulkheads, along the top of the stringer, and is three inches tall.

After we had the console positioned, we began working on a piece that will glue between the stringers under the console, designed to hold all of the sweep 90s into place for when the sole and console are installed. Starting with a template, we than drilled out the holes for this piece, and clamped it between the stringers.

We also used this piece as the template to cut the holes into the bottom of the console. At that point we spent several hours fitting into place all of the conduit, bending the pipe with a heat gun to have the chase tubes work around the bulkheads and stringers. I found it easiest to heat the pipes directly above their location, while sitting up on the bulkheads. You could look directly down to see where the bends needed to take place.

This is class 200 irrigation pipe with schedule 40 elbows. The pipe starts to bend with a 1,000 degree heat gun after about three or four minutes of heating. The pipe gets really flexible. We used furniture clamps to squeeze out any flat spots in the pipe or areas it began to buckle. Looking back I probably would have preferred to use a flexible pvc. However, these pipes seem as if they will give some sort of rigidity to the boat, at leas that is what I am telling myself.

Here are the results. Now I am working on the console again, specifically where the fire extinguisher goes.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:43 am
by glossieblack
Just lovely work. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:40 pm
by danieloldhouse
Casey when you start boring, it's really frightening :help: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's coming along very nice, beautiful crew too!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Daniel and Glossieblack! I like how it is taking shape.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:51 am
by justin_dwyer
Looks awesome Casey, well done mate!!

Looks like you are managing to get some work in around time with the freckles, good on you :)

Cheers

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Justin! The kids are fun to have around. Colton, my 8 year old, started woking with epoxy this week as we applied glue to the center console mounting boards. Lots of fun.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the mounting boards glued onto the stringers, and a couple pics of the fire extinguisher niche.
The base of the niche has a slight slant, maybe 20 degrees, so it does not hold dirt or water. The top is at a 90 to the side. I plan to reinforce the back and the inside of the niche, where the fire extinguisher mounts, with a little extra glass since it is only 1/4 thick ply.

The circle to the right of the extinguisher is for the speaker to the sound system. It has two speakers, one on each side of the console.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
Gluing up the console is coming along well.

Here are some pics of my kids and installing the helm to make sure that the fill/overflow/air bubble tube will gradually come up at an angle as per the owner's manual. It almost does. I will have to modify the 90 fitting. I have a nylon fitting that worked well getting cut, heated, and then stuck back together with the melted plastic. The bond was tight enough to tighten the fitting into the top of the helm pump. However, I am going to make another one some of the threads got a little melted. I plan to be more careful the second time around.

My oldest was a big help with the ratchet tightening the nuts onto the bolts from the inside of the console.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:37 am
by Jeff
Great photos of your helpers!! Amazing the places they can get into and help you with!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:36 pm
by willg
Casey, wouldn't the fill hose being routed higher than the fitting satisfy the mounting requirements, such that you could use the metal fitting that came with the unit? I think that'd be more reliable than a re-jiggered plastic one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The problem is the fitting is so tall it climbs up into the steering column so high that it then has to come back down a ways to get out from under it. In the plans it looked ok, but seems tight now that it is built.

I was looking it over last night and if I go with a quarter inch inside diameter fill hose, and a thin wall outside diameter, then it will help a lot and may fix the issue.

If not, after playing around with the nylon it seems to "glue" back together with just a little bit of heat. One way that would work would be if I park the boat on a slight decline when I fill the helm and lines, then there is probably no problem.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:51 am
by willg
I understand what you're saying about the metal fitting. Have you assessed it when it's maximally screwed in? Maybe I'm wrong but in your pic it looks like it could screw in more deeply. When I installed mine I could get more rotations in with a little persuasion, and it didn't seem to be too much. Or might be you could whack some of it off with a dremel, or find one pre-fab with a shorter thread run?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:I understand what you're saying about the metal fitting. Have you assessed it when it's maximally screwed in? Maybe I'm wrong but in your pic it looks like it could screw in more deeply. When I installed mine I could get more rotations in with a little persuasion, and it didn't seem to be too much. Or might be you could whack some of it off with a dremel, or find one pre-fab with a shorter thread run?
Hi Will,

I tried tightening and it seemed as if it would not go any tighter. I found a nice 1/4 od 90 that, when cut, slides down lower right into the thread portion, once I opened the threaded portion up a little. It appears to have fixed the issue. I will simply epoxy it into place. It would probably work even not epoxied into place with how tight the 90 seats down into the threaded id.

If for some reason it leaks, I might just put the plug right into the pump at that time, since it will be filled. I can always get it back out and loosen up the helm to fill it again if it needs to be serviced.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Regarding hatches...

I am planning for one horizontal hatch at the bow of the boat to access the anchor, batteries, and fuel tanks. There will be one vertical hatch that access the space between the fuel tanks toward the bow, accessed from the cockpit. Thoughts on the best way to build this? For the hatch at the bow, I plan to have a channel drain the hatch through a tube, and a drain tube in the hatch itself as well, that will drain to the bilge.

I then plan to have one long hatch that access the lockers under the bench seat. Is this a bad idea? Or should I make three hatches. I am not sure how heavy it will be if it is the hatch for all three compartments.

I then plan to make the bilge hatch according or similar to the plans, with it at an angle, so the steering and throttle control can come out of the side and up to the motor. this will drain either over the side, or into the bilge. Not really sure. Thoughts?

As for the two hatches on either side of the bilge, I plan to have them simply drain into the center lower spot of the bilge, basically onto the top of the bilge hatch, since it is lower.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:07 pm
by willg
flyfishingmonk wrote:Regarding hatches... There will be one vertical hatch that access the space between the fuel tanks toward the bow, accessed from the cockpit. Thoughts on the best way to build this?
I have three vertical hatches on my console, the covers of which were cut from the console wall so they will be flush when in place. I made a rim for the lids similar to what I did for my deck hatches. The two hatches in the front of the console don't need to be accessed regularly, just if I want to get to the batteries or console wiring. For those I will hold the lids in place with finish washers and screws. The hatch on the other (back) side will close with a slam latch. I have a set of take-apart hinges so when I need to get in there I can either open the lid a little or can easily remove the lid to make more room. I haven't installed those lids yet b/c I want to paint them first, but I'll post a picture of what I did so far.
I then plan to have one long hatch that access the lockers under the bench seat. Is this a bad idea? Or should I make three hatches. I am not sure how heavy it will be if it is the hatch for all three compartments.
I think one long hatch lid might be heavy and might be hard to brace well enough. I think it'd be better to have separate hatch openings for each of those spaces you plan.
I then plan to make the bilge hatch according or similar to the plans, with it at an angle, so the steering and throttle control can come out of the side and up to the motor. this will drain either over the side, or into the bilge. Not really sure. Thoughts?

As for the two hatches on either side of the bilge, I plan to have them simply drain into the center lower spot of the bilge, basically onto the top of the bilge hatch, since it is lower.
I don't think there'd be a problem doing the drains as you describe. FWIW all of my aft-most compartments are connected with limber holes so any water that gets in will drain to the bilge and get pumped out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Will for the feedback. Very helpful.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
A few more shots of the progress. I stiffened up the underside of the dash for the benefit of the helm. I assume, now when I put the helm pump and steering wheel on, it will be very solid.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:34 pm
by peter-curacao
Looking good, you have a very comfy thinking chair 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote:Looking good, you have a very comfy thinking chair 8)
You gotta have a nice one to sit in for sure!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:30 pm
by willg
Casey, these are the hatch openings in the front of my console. The lids will be held in place with finish washers so I think it will look OK. The bottom one will be covered by a cooler and the upper one with a cushion. I didn't want the hassle or extra cost of hinges and latches for these spaces. I routed out a channel for foam weatherstripping which will compress with the lid in position. I think that should work to keep water out. I thought about also doing that for my deck hatches but decided against it.
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote:Casey, these are the hatch openings in the front of my console. The lids will be held in place with finish washers so I think it will look OK. The bottom one will be covered by a cooler and the upper one with a cushion. I didn't want the hassle or extra cost of hinges and latches for these spaces. I routed out a channel for foam weatherstripping which will compress with the lid in position. I think that should work to keep water out. I thought about also doing that for my deck hatches but decided against it.
Great info. I have a similar hatch configuration. One behind the cushion, and one in the front. This helps give me some ideas. Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
The work continues. The first pic here is looking up from the inside of the console storage compartment. The underside of this piece of wood will have the radio and a receiving doc for an MP3 device or an iPod, so tunes can be played through the Lowrance HDS. You can see the two circular holes cut out for the speakers. It will be installed at a slant, so the radio will be facing somewhat upwards, and hidden behind the compartment door.

The next pic is of the top of that same piece of wood, and above it rests the dash. I just laid the items that will be installed on this board, but will work on their final placement at a later date. You can see the niche for the fire extinguisher to the right. This is looking in through where a hatch will eventually be installed that will be behind a cushion that rests above the cooler.

The third pic is of the holes where the conduit will come up into the console and up onto this board, and into the gadgets and gizmos on this bard and the underside of the dash. The wires will be hidden from the storage compartment. However, you will still see the throttle/shift cables on one side, and 1/2 of the speakers toward the back, and the fire extinguisher niche on the inside of the storage compartment.

The last pic is of the face plate to the steering pump/helm mount. The face plate goes down into a cross member like a key. I had not seen it from this angle until today, so I was not sure how it had ended up looking.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:34 pm
by TomW1
Nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:56 pm
by Jeff
Well done and nice organization on the inside of your console!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello builders.

I have a question about draining the compartments where the fuel tanks are stored. I will have two fuel tanks on the boat, each in it's own compartment. Is it wise to put a drain at the bottom of the compartment, with a hose to the bilge, in case there is ever a large leak from the tank's fittings, or say it is ruptured by hitting a sunken log or piece of debris.

Would a drain to the bilge create a hazard if fumes settle down this line toward the bilge? Seems like it would. So maybe it needs to go to it's own fitting that is overboard, through the transom via a bulkhead fitting. If it did drain to the bilge, could it simply be plugged where it enters the bilge, in the event that it is ever needed. Or can it be discarded all together, and a spill simply creates a mess that needs to be hosed out with water.

I don't see any other way to adequately drain a fuel spill out of this compartment if that happens, and a drain would allow me to flush it out. Or is this off limits.

Here is something I found from Jacques.
jacquesmm wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:20 am There is no rule about that. You, the builder, decide if you want some compartments sealed and some others open.
The sealed ones are sealed = no drains, the open ones should drain.
Holes to drain should be in the lowest corners. Those holes are named limber holes.
If there is a sealed compartment between open compartments, we may use a PVC pipe to drain from one to the next one.

USCG accepts sealed compartments as buoyancy volumes. You can fill any compartments with foam but that is another issue.

Sealed or open and drained compartments are not better or worse. It is a matter of choice, of utilisation of the compartment.
As the designer, I leave that choice to the builder.
In small boats, you can here and there have an open compartment that does not drain but you must not forget to empty them from time to time. A limber hole is easier.
Here is another quote I found from the designer, but not sure if it is in the right context.
jacquesmm wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:40 am Fuel tank should be sitting on neoprene pads. Use neoprene between tank and straps.

I like limber holes everywhere but it is an option. I also like them larger than 1" diameter: 2 or 3.
If you want to keep the tank compartment sealed, run a half PVC pipe in the bilges, covered with glass tape.

Tutorials: there are pictures of drain holes and limber holes all over the gallery but not assembled in one tutorial.
Type drain hole in the search filed of the forum and you will see hundreds of links.
Seems like if you used limber holes then the drain to the bilge would be ok as well, especially if it was plugged and checked periodically.

And then I found this which I think I like best.
gw204 wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:37 am All of the Gradys I have owned had one length of PVC that ran from the forward bilge to the aft bilge with no openings into the fuel tank compartments. The tank compartment then had a separate drain to the aft bilge that was plugged with a standard rubber bilge plug. That plug remained in place all the time and was there to allow periodic draining of any water that collected in the tank areas.
Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:12 am
by willg
Casey, please wait for someone more knowledgeable than I, but fwiw I put a drain from my fuel tank compartment to the bilge area. I think the chances of a spill are low, but if it happened I'd rather have it drain to a more manageable location such as the bilge, and not the fuel compartment. For me, getting a collection of gas (or water) out of there would be a pita.

Good to see that you're at least doing some head scratching on your boat, if not actual building. If it's the latter, post up some pics!

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:12 am Casey, please wait for someone more knowledgeable than I, but fwiw I put a drain from my fuel tank compartment to the bilge area. I think the chances of a spill are low, but if it happened I'd rather have it drain to a more manageable location such as the bilge, and not the fuel compartment. For me, getting a collection of gas (or water) out of there would be a pita.

Good to see that you're at least doing some head scratching on your boat, if not actual building. If it's the latter, post up some pics!

Will
Thanks Will. I went ahead and picked up the fittings to run drains to the bilge from both fuel tanks, and purchased a bulkhead fitting for where it flows into the bilge that will receive a plug so I can plug it off from the bilge completely and can inspect the line from time to time when the boat is trailered and powered down. I figured this would be the safest, yet would still give me the ability to drain the compartment incase of some tank failure.

I took a few pics and will post them up.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a few pics. The first is of the valve assembly that I have set up for filling the two live wells. The following pics are of the high speed pick up fitting that goes through the bottom of the boat. There is a custom base plate I made for the bilge. The last is of some safety stuff I picked up.

You can see on the picture with the trailer where I had them cut the bunk, and move the last three feet over so as not to hit the high speed pick up.

I had such a busy 4th quarter that I hardly touched the boat. It was a very very good fourth quarter, but busy. So now I hope to put some time in on the boat and not go so hard at work.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:08 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Casey.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:55 pm
by Jeff
Throw ropes are great!! Very nice to have one on the boat!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it seems like a reasonable purchase. I ordered a few more odds and ends for the live wells and now I can get back to work, since the schedule has lightened up some. - Casey
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:55 pm Throw ropes are great!! Very nice to have one on the boat!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fellow Builders,

I need hinges and latches for hatches. What are the preferred parts and methods?

I primarily fly fish so I want to be very careful with anything that may snag the fly line.

I will have a total of ten hatches.
I will have one hatch in the front of the boat on the deck.
One on bulkhead C facing the cockpit.
Three under the bench seat.
Three in the back of the boat.
Two on the center console (one to access wires and one to access storage). Will had some good ideas for this part that I liked.

Thanks in advance!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:49 pm
by TomW1
Casey this is the type of hinge you want it is inset into hatch and wood surrounding the hatch. They are available from most good marine suppliers.
http://greatlakesskipper.com/gem-lux-2- ... inges-pair

The same with the latches they can be inset. http://greatlakesskipper.com/gem-produc ... s-set-of-4

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom - I like the looks of that latch. I am uncomfortable with the hinge, as I was looking at one of these online. It seems that the second hinge would not allow the side of the hatch with the hinge to be as tight, causing extra wiggle. Thoughts on this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-2-Pack ... dog+hinges

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the drains for the fuel compartments. I removed wood to recess the fitting in flush with the floor. It will be epoxied in place. There is one for each tank and the line will meet in the middle with a Tee. The rigid pipe under the tank is for the fuel tank level sensor. The last photo is of the overflow drains for the live wells.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
After a fair amount of experimentation, as can be seen by the multiple rings in the first picture, I determined how wide and thick I want to make the wooden support flanges around the bulkhead fittings that serve as a drains for the live wells.

Since quite a bit of force is applied on the fitting seating the overflow drain tube, I am going to glue two plates under the live well floor. The fitting itself will rest just below the floor of the live well about 1/16 of an inch or so so it will completely drain.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:17 am
by glossieblack
As usual, beautifully thought through and executed build details. She's going to be a stunner. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:17 am As usual, beautifully thought through and executed build details. She's going to be a stunner. :D
Thank you for the kind words!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tom, and other builders,

I am liking the look of this latch a lot, the one Tom recommended. I also like their friction hinges that they offer as well.

Thoughts on the 2" vs the 2.5" inch? Seems like the larger would be a little easier to place your fingers into to open. I am leaning toward the 2.5".

http://www.gemlux.com/catalog/latch-compression

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a little progress I made on the bilge bulkhead. I routed out the inside a bit to allow the bolt to thread on. By happenstance a pocket of air was in the epoxy plug and the router bit jumped, creating the perfect place for the grounding screw.

The last pic is of the rabbit bit. I usually try to buy Whiteside, and that little set is very convenient, having many sizes of bearings.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
I found a pice of 4 inch drainage pipe in the garage. After cutting it up, I do not like the radius. Too small. The corners in the live wells still seem too tight with this.

I found a 6" x 24" riser pipe made of pvc at Home Depot, but it is simply too heavy. I am going to play around with some more ideas.

But here are the pics of the first 4 inch drainage pipe.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:07 pm
by TomW1
flyfishingmonk wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56 pm Tom, and other builders,

I am liking the look of this latch a lot, the one Tom recommended. I also like their friction hinges that they offer as well.

Thoughts on the 2" vs the 2.5" inch? Seems like the larger would be a little easier to place your fingers into to open. I am leaning toward the 2.5".

http://www.gemlux.com/catalog/latch-compression

Casey
Casey one caveat with Great Lakes make sure they have the quantity of what you want before you order. They are a reseller of left overs from manufacturers and others so may or may not have the quantity you need of what you want.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:51 pm
by willg
flyfishingmonk wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56 pm Thoughts on the 2" vs the 2.5" inch? Seems like the larger would be a little easier to place your fingers into to open. I am leaning toward the 2.5"
Casey I have the 2" model, non locking. It's plenty big enough in my opinion. I'm not at home now but I think I have 10 of their latches I'm not using. They sent the wrong model to me and mailed me the 10 I wanted for no additional cost. Awesome company and service! I don't think you'd want them b/c they are locking and the lock occupies some of the finger pull space but if you want them I'll mail them to you gratis.

Also, I have their friction hinges and really like them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:01 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Fantastic workmanship. I may borrow your idea for the fire extinguisher, I think that's a great way to mount it.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:07 pm Casey one caveat with Great Lakes make sure they have the quantity of what you want before you order. They are a reseller of left overs from manufacturers and others so may or may not have the quantity you need of what you want.

Tom

Thanks Tom. Good advice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:01 pm Fantastic workmanship. I may borrow your idea for the fire extinguisher, I think that's a great way to mount it.
Thanks! I used small brass nails to hold the 1/4" ply in position as it cured. I will leave them there since they will get glassed in on both sides, and are not close to any water.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:51 pm Casey I have the 2" model, non locking. It's plenty big enough in my opinion. I'm not at home now but I think I have 10 of their latches I'm not using. They sent the wrong model to me and mailed me the 10 I wanted for no additional cost. Awesome company and service! I don't think you'd want them b/c they are locking and the lock occupies some of the finger pull space but if you want them I'll mail them to you gratis.

Also, I have their friction hinges and really like them.

Will,

I would love to have them! Allow me to at least pick up the shipping. I can send a FedEx label via email.

I was actually even considering the locking over the non locking. So this is perfect!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:25 am
by willg
Casey, I replied to your email. Btw, the friction hinges I used are their model FH-1681-SD, 1/5" wide and 2.75" long. I think they work great for my build.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:25 am Casey, I replied to your email. Btw, the friction hinges I used are their model FH-1681-SD, 1/5" wide and 2.75" long. I think they work great for my build.

Will

Will,

I like the looks of those, since they have 6 screws instead of four.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:25 am Casey, I replied to your email. Btw, the friction hinges I used are their model FH-1681-SD, 1/5" wide and 2.75" long. I think they work great for my build.

Will
Thanks Will for the latches! I will check them out and see if they will work. If not I will definitely pay it forward.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
After a research project in NY, I am back home and working on the boat. Here are some pics of the progress on the drain for the live wells, and the compartments for the fuel tanks. The first three are of the live well drain bulkhead reinforcement plates. The bottom two are of the fuel tank drains. All are recessed to be flush with the bottom of the compartment or live well.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:25 am
by LGF
Very Well Thought-out there Casey, currently sitting with an issue where the drain was attached like a through-hull fitting and needless to say, not all the water drains out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:25 am Very Well Thought-out there Casey, currently sitting with an issue where the drain was attached like a through-hull fitting and needless to say, not all the water drains out.
Thanks Henk!

Here are some shots of the cured epoxy. The top of the bulkhead fitting rests about an 1/8 below the live well's floor.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:08 pm
by LGF
Also looking very good Casey. Are you going to fill the void around the fitting with thickened epoxy and sand that level with the livewell floor? I've been wondering about finishing off such an installation with specific reference to the hole in the fitting and layer of glass in the live-well.

Thought of routing out a recess, even if it means the entire thickness of the live-well floor( with a solid backing of course) then glass the well, epoxy glue the fitting into the recessed hole and fill and smooth the voids around the fitting and sand the entire filled area flat. Even thought of recessing the top of the floor around the fitting and building that up with glass and then sand it all down to a level.

Thinking is that the fitting will be securely housed in place and no matter what vibrations etc etc will cause it to shift in any way matter or form and cause a leak! Perhaps it's just me overthinking things as always!.? :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
LGF wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:08 pm Also looking very good Casey. Are you going to fill the void around the fitting with thickened epoxy and sand that level with the livewell floor? I've been wondering about finishing off such an installation with specific reference to the hole in the fitting and layer of glass in the live-well.

Thought of routing out a recess, even if it means the entire thickness of the live-well floor( with a solid backing of course) then glass the well, epoxy glue the fitting into the recessed hole and fill and smooth the voids around the fitting and sand the entire filled area flat. Even thought of recessing the top of the floor around the fitting and building that up with glass and then sand it all down to a level.

Thinking is that the fitting will be securely housed in place and no matter what vibrations etc etc will cause it to shift in any way matter or form and cause a leak! Perhaps it's just me overthinking things as always!.? :lol:
Henk,

I plan to epoxy the fitting into place, and then glass right up to the hole when I glass in the floor. I suppose you could tear out a hole, and put a fitting on the hose, and then glue it into place with epoxy, may be easier than building the floor up, depending on the size of the live well. If the live well is small, then maybe build up the floor. Or I suppose always use a sponge.

Not sure about the leaking in the future. I worry about the same. I am planning on using a hose with two hose clamps, and then dabbing on epoxy onto the hose clamps. Then gluing in the floor. I suppose if it leaks some, it will find it's way to the bilge any way.

Here is the hose I am using, along with the barbed 1.5" connector I am using to bring the hose through the bulkhead. What will then enter the bilge will be just the two barbed connectors, from there a hose will connect it to the bulkhead fitting that exits the boat. The hose seems very strong, and was picked up at West Marine. The other pics show the three box layout, with the drain pipes coming up in the two live wells. The center will be dry storage. I will eventually cut the overflow pipes to the right height. The overflow drain is pulled out of the corner some to allow for the radius to be added to the corners.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made more progress tonight, cutting holes for the fuel tank compartment drain tubes that pass through bulkhead B (first and second photo). I also fit in a bulkhead fitting for draining the front hatch (next three photos), which will connect to a drain in the locker between bulkhead A and B that I have not worked on yet. And I am preparing to epoxy in a plate that I have added that will add more strength in case the high speed pickup takes a hit from a stump (last photo).

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:55 am
by Eric1
Looking Good my friend.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:55 am Looking Good my friend.
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:18 am
by pee wee
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 am I made more progress tonight, cutting holes for the fuel tank compartment drain tubes that pass through bulkhead B (first and second photo).

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Are you planning to do something extra where the hose passes through the hole in the bulkhead? I would think, with vibration that hose will get a wear spot if you leave it like it is.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:18 am
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 am I made more progress tonight, cutting holes for the fuel tank compartment drain tubes that pass through bulkhead B (first and second photo).

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Are you planning to do something extra where the hose passes through the hole in the bulkhead? I would think, with vibration that hose will get a wear spot if you leave it like it is.
Great question sir. I plan to glass it in. Right now I am dry fitting everything before I proceed with glassing the bulkheads and floor, so I don't forget anything or have it not fit when I start the glassing.

Next up I am going to fit the hoses that drain the live wells, and come up with enough length and flex to tighten the hose clamps before setting the floor down on top of the stringers.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:49 am
by peter-curacao
I'm not sure but I think you weakened your stringers significantly with all those long slotted holes I see, could be nothing but maybe it's an idea to ask Jacques to be sure?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:51 am
by pee wee
I should have known you had a plan, the rest of your build has been so methodical. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:51 am I should have known you had a plan, the rest of your build has been so methodical. 8)
Well thank you sir. With so little time to build, it leaves me lots of time to think through the process. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:49 am I'm not sure but I think you weakened your stringers significantly with all those long slotted holes I see, could be nothing but maybe it's an idea to ask Jacques to be sure?
Great comment Peter!

But ahhh! It's a little late now. With as many chase tubes and drain tubes running to and from I am glad I did it, because there would be a boat load of holes in the stringers and bulkheads and each one would have had to be done one at a time, and put just in the right place. The open holes have made placing all the tubes in much easier.

I searched the threads quite a bit for how much could be cut out, before making the cuts, and concluded that as long as I leave a minimum of 3 inches on all sides I would be good. I actually left more than 3.

Regarding strength, I added a solid reverse chine all the way from front to back that has given the hull significant rigidity, almost like adding two additional 4 inch by 4 inch thick stringers along both sides of the craft. I also added two 6 foot strakes that are solid wood and epoxy, and glassed down with two extra layers of 12oz glass, almost like adding two more stringers (although not as substantial as the reverse chine). In addition to this, some extra tape was glassed down the length of the keel, but this was because I eliminated the skeg and wanted more protection. However, it makes it more stiff.

There will be additional wood added to the top of the stringers between bulkhead D and E, and E and the transom, essentially making the two center stringers in the last 4 feet of the boat an additional foot tall from length to width (if that makes sense). These are for the compartments and will be glassed in much like the bulkheads are glassed against the stringers.

The I-beam of the original plan is still intact, with only the center parts of the stringers cut out. It should be fine.

Then again, it may break in half on the water. 8O

Some additional wood may be added to lock in the chase tubes, and the natural place for this would be to glue them to the top and bottom of the stringer, spanning the whole the tubes pass through, but I have not got to this part yet.

Here are some pics of all the extra wood and glass.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:29 am
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:16 am Great comment Peter!
But ahhh! It's a little late now.
Sorry I didn't see it earlier. :oops:
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:16 am Then again, it may break in half on the water. 8O
:lol: I don't think it will be that bad!
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:16 am Some additional wood may be added to lock in the chase tubes, and the natural place for this would be to glue them to the top and bottom of the stringer,

That might be a good idea, better safe than sorry, maybe just glue pieces into the slots, to keep the weight down?

Your doing a great job btw 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the compliment Peter. I'll tinker with the additional wood. I always assumed I would add some just to hold all of these crazy pipes and hoses in place - kill two birds with one stone.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:25 pm
by BB Sig
One of the purposes of keeping the wood in the frames is to create a sealed chamber for flotation. Not a big deal if you put in foam or never break the boat in half! :D

Your build is inspiring.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:25 pm One of the purposes of keeping the wood in the frames is to create a sealed chamber for flotation. Not a big deal if you put in foam or never break the boat in half! :D

Your build is inspiring.
Good point. And thanks BB!

I plan to foam every compartment below deck. I purchased that two part stuff form Bateau. I hope it is still good as it has been in my garage for years.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got some more work done on the drains. This time it is the drain for the locker between bulkheads A and B, between the fuel tanks.

Here are some pics. It will sit flush like the others. I have not cut out the hatch yet, but there will be one right in front of the drain.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress on the front locker and the two compartments for the fuel tanks. The drains are almost complete.

The drains for the live wells are now epoxied into place. The bulkhead is leaning to one side, and you can see where the pvc and drain hose will pass through.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some progress I made on the bilge. To make things look a little nicer, I am using barbed nipple fittings for bringing the hoses that drain the live wells through bulkhead in front of the bilge. Below these barbed fittings are two bulkheads that drain the front of the boat, one that goes to the fuel tank's compartments that will be plugged, and one to the front hatch and locker.

Do you guys have a drain to the bilge from the cockpit, in addition to the drains that go out the side of the boat's hull through the brass drain tubes?

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:42 am
by Jeff
Flyfishingmonk, really good work on your plumbing, very organized!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:42 am Flyfishingmonk, really good work on your plumbing, very organized!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here I am working on the chase tubes that go into the front locker, where I will have the trolling motor batteries and the starter battery mounted to offset the weight toward the back of the boat. One tube will be for all of the bigger gauge cables and one for the wires for the horn and the navigation light. I am using a heat gun to shape the pipe, so it runs along the contour of the hull.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:01 pm
by BB Sig
Looks good. I used the same technique to do my wiring in the boat shed. Works great. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:01 pm Looks good. I used the same technique to do my wiring in the boat shed. Works great. :)
Thanks BB!

Yeah it's pretty easy to work with if a person is patient, allowing time to let the heat do it's thing.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress. All of the chase tubes are complete that go toward the bow. There is a little bit of adjusting left for those that go toward the stern.

The 90 that is going toward the bow that does not have a pipe, only goes the length of the 90, is for the wire that goest to the transducer. You can see a spot on the hull where the transducer will be glued, and ultimately accessed by a small hatch.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
This is bulkhead A. I have a square cut out to allow me in the future to take out the fuel tanks and replace them, or service them, if they need repair. I am going to bolt a cover back on the square so the area will remain very rigid. I did not want to take them out into the cockpit of the boat, because that hatch (in bulkhead B) will be too short.

The next photo is of the floor for the very front hatch, where the batteries will be installed. It is 1/2 ply that I plan to further reinforce. The board was not big enough, but that is ok. I will just use 1/4 inch ply to finish the small portion that still needs to be covered with floor - there will not be any weight on that section.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Every flat's boat I have been on has given me a challenge with rod storage, and the bungee cords just don't seem to work well. The problem with storing fly rods is the reels all get in the way if stored right on top of one another. I imagine the spin guys have similar problems, but not sure.

The top pic is how I plan to organize the fly rods so the reels don't get in the way, and the following pics are how I plan to mount the rods, positioning the mount right where a rod balances naturally in your hand. I plan to tweak it just a but, but for the most part you can see how it works.

I may change up the direction of the grain pattern, vertical instead of horizontal for strength. The real ones will have rounded over corners, and I will turn the dowel out of mahogany. I will also make the dowel longer on each side so it is easy to grab and pull out of the round pocket on the under side. There will be a total of six, three on each side.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:33 am
by Eric1
That's really nice work there!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:20 am
by Jeff
Wow, fully agree with Eric!!!! Wow!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:45 am
by BB Sig
Love the mounts. Something like that in an FS13 would be nice. Did you use a router to cut the groove for the bungee cord?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Eric, Jeff, BB! I like how it is coming together.
BB Sig wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:45 am Love the mounts. Something like that in an FS13 would be nice. Did you use a router to cut the groove for the bungee cord?
BB - I used a 1/2 cove bit. Makes a perfect groove. I plan to round over the edges with maybe a 1/4 or 3/8th to finish it up. I may get to do that today, and will post a pic if I do.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I had a chance to round over the edges, and make a couple more modifications. The prototype is now complete, and I am ready to make six of them.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:40 pm
by Dougster
Very cool. I can see that on my SK14 build. Dunno what a "cover" bit is though. I'm looking forward to seeing them mounted on you PH18.

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Dougster wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:40 pm Very cool. I can see that on my SK14 build. Dunno what a "cover" bit is though. I'm looking forward to seeing them mounted on you PH18.

Dougster
Thanks! And sorry, that was a typo. Cove bit. I will go back and correct that post.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 pm
by MrPaul
Nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
MrPaul wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 pmNice!
Thanks Paul!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:05 pm
by TomW1
Casey you always do such excellent work that boat is going to be a show piece.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:05 pm Casey you always do such excellent work that boat is going to be a show piece.

Tom
Thanks Tom! I will be happy when it is all done and the kids are out on the water having fun.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:00 pm
by willg
Pretty dang nice there, Casey!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:00 pm Pretty dang nice there, Casey!
Thanks Will!

Here are a couple more pics of some progress I made tonight.

These are the six holders I am going to shape like the prototype. And the mahogany dimensional stock will be cut into 8 wood blanks (two extra) and turned to replace the pine dowel that was used for the template.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about a drain for the main cockpit. I am planing on having the two through hull drains that go right out the side through the brass drain tube. However, they will typically be plugged.

I am considering one drain for the cockpit floor that goes to the bilge, where I have an automatic pump that dumps water out toward the top of the transom. Is that typically how a boat like this drains, or is it usually out a through hull that has a scupper?

I usually am a fair weather fisherman, and will typically be on calm water, so I figure simply running a drain to the bilge will suffice. Then, if I take a big wave on the rare occasion I am crossing some open water, or a heavy rain, I will have the two drains that go through the hull as back up.

Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:45 pm
by cvincent
Your are doing excellent work on this build. Your drain idea appears to be a standard setup with self bailing cockpit to scuppers either through the sides or through the transom. If you do place an additional drain from the cockpit into the bilge, your idea of a bilge pump should work fine. On my build I do not plan to drain the cockpit into the bilge area. I will only have the self bailing scuppers and a bilge pump in the bilge as backup, but no direct drain to the bilge. I am not drilling limber holes in my bulkheads, so I don't expect that water will enter the bilge area.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:27 am
by TomW1
Casey it's always prudent to have a drain hole going to the bilge so that the bilge pump can pump can handle any excess water. I also recommend a 1500 or 2000 gph pump these pumps are made to professional standards and will last longer and handle a lot of water.

Second do not route your scuppers out the sides. Very, very bad idea, almost guarantees water in the boat. Use drains out the back with scuppers.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:45 pm Your are doing excellent work on this build. Your drain idea appears to be a standard setup with self bailing cockpit to scuppers either through the sides or through the transom. If you do place an additional drain from the cockpit into the bilge, your idea of a bilge pump should work fine. On my build I do not plan to drain the cockpit into the bilge area. I will only have the self bailing scuppers and a bilge pump in the bilge as backup, but no direct drain to the bilge. I am not drilling limber holes in my bulkheads, so I don't expect that water will enter the bilge area.
Great feedback, and thank you for the compliment!

I assume with the two part foam and having every box under the sole encased it does seem that the holes that pass to the bilge are maybe unnecessary doesent it.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:27 am Casey it's always prudent to have a drain hole going to the bilge so that the bilge pump can pump can handle any excess water. I also recommend a 1500 or 2000 gph pump these pumps are made to professional standards and will last longer and handle a lot of water.

Second do not route your scuppers out the sides. Very, very bad idea, almost guarantees water in the boat. Use drains out the back with scuppers.
Hi Tom,

Thank for the reply. I was referring to the drain holes (brass tubes) that go from the cockpit directely to the sides as simply being there in case of an emergency, but other than that always being plugged, and not having a scupper. I figure if I take a lot of water I can always pull the plugs and let it drain and plug them back up, or use a scupper plug which temporarily create a scupper in the brass tube until you pull it back out and plug it again with the regular plug.

Now as for the drain in the floor that I plan to place directely aganist the bulkhead and located behind the center consoul, I am thinking to have it run to the bilge, where there is a Rule 2000 pump with an auto switch.

The light rain and occasional spray water that cimes in I'll let the pump take care of, and the heavy rain or wave over the side I can pull the drain plugs in the cockpit.

Now as for a scupper in the bilge, I was not planning to have one since there is the Ruel 2000 pump and a bilge drain. From some reason I am not fond of scuppers.

This may clear up my plan, which I think works... I think.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made more progress on the rod holders. I have been experimenting with the dowel size, turning it out of mahogany. I tried the one that looks like a spindle, and it does not work as well. Too fat. The knot in the bungee gets in the way. The maple prototype dowel worked well, but it needs to be a little longer so it is easier to grab a hold of and pull it out of the hook. The one in the middle I think will be the ticket.

Mahogany is my favorite dimensional lumber to work with. Softer in density, easy to sand, and looks pretty. Of course it is all going to get painted white. Tomorrow I will clamp, in two groups, there of the hooks together to make sure the curve is perfect by sanding them together. Then they will get drilled and the edges rounded. I cut them about a 1/2 long in length, so I can cut the angle for them to be glued to the hull. I am going to work on a way to reinforce where it glues to the hull as well, and have some ideas in mind.

I also made the hooks, but need to drill them out and round them over. That's the third photo.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:06 am
by Walkers Run
I just got caught up on your build. Wow! I love your attention to detail. Thanks for sharing.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
Walkers Run wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:06 am I just got caught up on your build. Wow! I love your attention to detail. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks! It's nice to be making progress again. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am making some base plates for the rod holder hooks, with 3/8th inch okoume, and will cut the hooks parallel with the sole. I will wait to drill the hole for the bungee until I know the center point between the hook and the base plate.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress on the rod holders. Rounded edges for the base plates. Drilled holes for the hooks, cut the holes square. Filed the square to match the angle of the hull. Next up I will finish the base plates (5 left to file), and then on to working on the hooks and turning five more dowels.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:44 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:44 am Beautiful work!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:11 pm
by Fuzz
Dang I wish I had the wood working skills that some of you guys do. As Jeff said beautiful work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:11 pm Dang I wish I had the wood working skills that some of you guys do. As Jeff said beautiful work.
Thanks Fuzz! I'm sure you can do this kind of work, it just takes patience. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made a lot of progress this weekend on the rod holders. The base plates are done, and the hooks are almost done. I still have some routing to do for the cove and edges, and one more hole to drill into each one. I then need to turn 5 dowels. Other than that they are ready to have the face plates glued to the hooks, and then after the sole is in they can be glued to the inside of the hull.

I may spot glue them into place with hot glue to get the measurements for the holes and PVC tubes for bulkhead B, and the hooks for bulkhead C. Then I can pop them back, peel off the glue, off and proceed from there. The kids have some low heat hot glue sticks and a little gun that would work perfect.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:59 am
by Eric1
Well Done my Friend! Those are awesome!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:19 am
by BB Sig
WOW! Great work!

What kind of drill press are you using and why did you choose it? I like power tools and I have to start building my inventory slowly but with the right ones. I only like to buy them once if I can help it. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:25 am
by cvincent
Excellent craftsmanship Casey! You phantom will be one of a kind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:59 am Well Done my Friend! Those are awesome!
Thanks Eric!
cvincent wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:25 am Excellent craftsmanship Casey! You phantom will be one of a kind.
Thanks! Let's hope it floats. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:28 am
by willg
cvincent wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:25 am Excellent craftsmanship Casey! You phantom will be one of a kind.
I agree completely. Your creativity and craftsmanship are very impressive. I really enjoy your updates.

And I bet it floats, too ...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:19 am WOW! Great work!

What kind of drill press are you using and why did you choose it? I like power tools and I have to start building my inventory slowly but with the right ones. I only like to buy them once if I can help it. :lol:
Hi BB,

If you are building a shop, the two power tools that could basically build a whole boat are the hand drill and the jig saw. I kid you not. Almost 95% of the work is with these two tools or can be achieved by these two tools and a long t-square. Everything else just helps with the other 5%. These two you probably already have. Every year or so for the last 15 years I have tried to get one nice tool, either a large power tool or a nice hand tool. Only the bandsaw was a used tool.

As for the drill press, I have a Delta. I picked it up at Lowes along with a Delta jointer, after working them down to $350 for the pair. I figure the deal was worth about $700+ as they were both floor models. I then sold the jointer since I really don't use one and almost covered my cost. So it was just about free. Maybe some day if I build cabinets or something I will pick up another jointer.

Here are a few brands I like, and in the order I like them. Maybe the list is helpful if you are looking for additional tools.

For large power tools: Powermatic (table saw), Robert Sorby (lathe), JessEm (router table w/Portercable 3.25), Jet (bandsaw), Delta (drill press), Delta (vac system). I picked up a slide for my table saw that is made by JessEm but I really don't have room in the garage to install it. It was such a good deal I could not pass it up. Hopefully when we move again I will have room for the slide.

I saw the vac system in your shed. It's perfect for the job! I have a similar Ridgid, but older. Those are perfect for boat building.

Most of the fine cutting tools are Bosch, and the more rough stuff is the Ridgid (drills, sawzall). Some Porter-Cable, I recently picked up a Makita hand planer for working on the boat, because it had really good reviews. I like reviews, and I try to avoid making a decision off of just the best deal. I also like Milwaukee but don't own any. I have had a few Hilit's in the past they are amazing (hammer drill, hand drill, lasers).

For power hand tools, I own Bosch, Porter Cable, Ridgid, Dewalt and a few more that I can't recall. I got rid of most of my old Dewalt, because it just gave up the ghost. Mostly battery powered tools. I imagine the newer generation of Dewalt are great.

Some brands really excel in one area (i.e. Dewalt with miter saws) and others in another (Porter-Cable 3.25 fixed base router motor). So try to avoid brand allegiance, but select the best tool for the job. Even consider Harbor Freight if it is a tool you will only use maybe 3 times in your life, or if you know the task will destroy the tool.

Hope this helps!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:28 am
cvincent wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:25 am Excellent craftsmanship Casey! You phantom will be one of a kind.
I agree completely. Your creativity and craftsmanship are very impressive. I really enjoy your updates.

And I bet it floats, too ...
Thanks Will. Encouraging words help a person press onward!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:40 pm
by BB Sig
Thanks for the advice! 8O I wasn't expecting that amount of advice...

I've already got a lot of good powered handtools (drills/planer/sawzall/jigsaw/biscuit joiner...) a used Rigid Planer and a 12" Rigid miter saw ($100) on off demo. I recently (last year) bought a Grizzly G0175P. This was sort of a compromise as I bought a hybrid but made sure it was 220v capable. I am not a professional but knew I didn't want a contractor saw.

I am looking more towards the other larger equipment such as a floor standing drill press. It takes up more room but I hate buying something that is limiting when I need it. All the compromises I have made "for the time being" have been permanent ones because "they mostly work." I would rather make do without until I can get the right tool for the long haul. Buy right and buy once is my goal but sometimes I just can't wait. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:40 pm Thanks for the advice! 8O I wasn't expecting that amount of advice...

I've already got a lot of good powered handtools (drills/planer/sawzall/jigsaw/biscuit joiner...) a used Rigid Planer and a 12" Rigid miter saw ($100) on off demo. I recently (last year) bought a Grizzly G0175P. This was sort of a compromise as I bought a hybrid but made sure it was 220v capable. I am not a professional but knew I didn't want a contractor saw.

I am looking more towards the other larger equipment such as a floor standing drill press. It takes up more room but I hate buying something that is limiting when I need it. All the compromises I have made "for the time being" have been permanent ones because "they mostly work." I would rather make do without until I can get the right tool for the long haul. Buy right and buy once is my goal but sometimes I just can't wait. :lol:
I like it! I figured the long response may also help other readers.

I used to have the drill press in the corner, and it fits well there since they are tall and not wide or deep. On larger pieces of wood I was drilling a hole in I would walk the machine out a foot or so. Worked well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Doing a little brainstorming on the cockpit drain. =)

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:24 pm
by TomW1
Casey as always your work is impeccable, you will have the best looking PH18 ever built on here. That drain looks awesome. As a hint since it is plastic both Krylon and Rust-Oleum have primers for plastic that allow you to paint over them with another paint. Rust-Oleum Automotive Plastic primer would probably work well with our boat paints, but as with any new process I would test it first.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:24 pm Casey as always your work is impeccable, you will have the best looking PH18 ever built on here. That drain looks awesome. As a hint since it is plastic both Krylon and Rust-Oleum have primers for plastic that allow you to paint over them with another paint. Rust-Oleum Automotive Plastic primer would probably work well with our boat paints, but as with any new process I would test it first.
Thank you for the compliment! I will have to check out this plastic primer. I had never even considered a primer for plastic. Makes sense!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:54 pm
by willg
Casey, that drain would definitely allow a lot of water to pass but do you think you need that capacity? And it might never happen but I'd also worry about something important slipping through those slots. Just a thought...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:54 pm Casey, that drain would definitely allow a lot of water to pass but do you think you need that capacity? And it might never happen but I'd also worry about something important slipping through those slots. Just a thought...
Maybe so, like a favorite hand tied fly or something! I am thinking of cutting it just shy of 24 inches, and having it rest between the two center stringers. The drain cover would come off pretty easily, being held down with just a few screws. Under that I am planning to have a simple tray that collects the water, with a 1.5" drain fitting in the center to chase the water toward the bilge.

At least that is as far out as my brainstorming has gone.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:50 pm
by willg
OK, I understand those plans. As always, you've been thinking!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:50 pm OK, I understand those plans. As always, you've been thinking!
Thanks! Hopefully this idea will work, and will look cool as well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
All right friends, here is the new cockpit drain design I have been working on. I like how it turned out. Next up I will install a small tray below it with a 1.5 fitting to take the water to the bilge. This drain sets between the two inside stringers.

I routed the drain to only be 1/4 inch tall on the edges, and the rabbit cut is about the same, with the end goal of having the drain grate rest just below the cockpit sole.

On the bottom photo I have used the router to take the edge off of the bottom of the drain grate. On the photo second from the bottom, I am testing the rabbit depth and width before using the router bit on my hand held, since there are several ballbearings to choose from. I cut out the square using a jigsaw against a fence that was clamped down. Once the floor is glued down I will clean up the wood's edges with epoxy and will do a final sand on the drain grate before installing it. It's made of plastic and is easy to work with.

I cut the center of the drain grate out because it has some predrilled holes for screws to fix it to the floor, and I wanted the screw heads to be symmetrical. I will drill and countersink two additional holes, and the grate will be held down by a total of four stainless steel screws. For anyone who wants to use a similar idea, it is a three foot section of NDS 540 Mini Channel Deck Drain Cover, and it comes in other colors. I purchased it on eBay for $16.00.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:47 am
by Eric1
I like these! I may have to copy your work. I'm planning to use an outboard bracket and I'm not sure if I can use scuppers on the transom.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 am
by topwater
That's a pretty slick setup 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:47 am I like these! I may have to copy your work. I'm planning to use an outboard bracket and I'm not sure if I can use scuppers on the transom.
topwater wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 am That's a pretty slick setup 8)
Thanks guys! I just picked up some hose and clamps for the drain, and anticipate the fittings coming in soon (barbed nipple for passing through the bulkhead, bulkhead fitting for the drain. I'll post up more progress as I finish up the drain idea.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:50 pm
by Steven
I like the drains but I'm concerned that when stepped on you might get some separation in the plies in the transition of your rabbet. The lip is not real thick and may flex. If room, I'd glue a block underneath a few inches larger all the way around. They use a pattern bit in the router to cut the drain hole to it's existing size. I'd also glass the rabbit with some 3.25 oz cloth. I will take the 90 at the transition. I get real paranoid about plywood edges as a weak link, especially in cutouts in the sole where there will always be plenty of water.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Steven wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:50 pm I like the drains but I'm concerned that when stepped on you might get some separation in the plies in the transition of your rabbet. The lip is not real thick and may flex. If room, I'd glue a block underneath a few inches larger all the way around. They use a pattern bit in the router to cut the drain hole to it's existing size. I'd also glass the rabbit with some 3.25 oz cloth. I will take the 90 at the transition. I get real paranoid about plywood edges as a weak link, especially in cutouts in the sole where there will always be plenty of water.
Good call Steven!

I'll stiffen it up between the stringers, making the tray that catches the water be the support for the underside.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some more progress. I cut the slots in the sole for the stainless steel plates that bolt the center console to the hull. I set the plywood that makes up the sole on the brackets themselves to mark where the notches needed to be cut.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:01 am
by Eric1
That console isn't going anywhere! Well Done.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:45 am
by Jeff
Nice console!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
I made some progress lately. Here are the finished rod holders below. The ideas seems to be working well.

I have been epoxying in the fittings that bring water into the bilge or pass through the bilge through the transom (live well, bait well, two drain tubes, cockpit drain). This gets me one step closer to glassing in the bulkheads.

I have also managed to begin cutting out the deck. I had to, because I needed some of the wood for the sole.

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Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:32 pm
by Fuzz
Very nice looking work :!: And it looks like you have a great helper to keep you on track :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 12:32 pm Very nice looking work :!: And it looks like you have a great helper to keep you on track :D
Thanks! Yeah that little guy is a lot of fun to have around.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:27 pm
by TomW1
Glad your back at it Casey have missed you innovative ideas and nice clean work.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 11:27 pm Glad your back at it Casey have missed you innovative ideas and nice clean work.

Tom
Thanks Tom!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Forum,

I am needing to purchase a fuel filter/water separator. Thoughts on best option? I am looking at the Racor 120R-RAC-01. This is the one with the see through drain bulb. However, I am game for any others as well.

I am planning on mounting it and the Evinrude oil tank for the 2 part mixture in one location, on the starboard side between the last bulkhead and the transom.

I have made some more progress on the boat, specifically the live wells, and the cockpit drain. I'll try to post up some pics.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:22 am
by BarraMan
I have dual Yamaha filter/water separators - made of resin resin, so they definitely won't corrode/rust. They have a red ring on the bottom of the see-through bowl that floats on water so you can easily see if there is water present (never have). They have met my expectations. Not cheap, but seem to be good!

Cheers

Lee

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:29 am
by seaslug
I've had the Racor on my boat since it was new in 2004 and I would recommend looking for a different filter. Every time I need to change out the filter I have to put the unit in a vise and destroy the filter to get it off the housing, even breaking the plastic the last time. It's not leaking , amazingly, but it's poorly designed and sometimes takes me an hour just getting the filter off. I've read other guys reporting the same problem.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:22 am I have dual Yamaha filter/water separators - made of resin resin, so they definitely won't corrode/rust. They have a red ring on the bottom of the see-through bowl that floats on water so you can easily see if there is water present (never have). They have met my expectations. Not cheap, but seem to be good!
Hi Lee. Thanks for the input. Can you shoot a pic of it? Or maybe a part number. I am curious to see if I can find a resin one too, and like the sound of the red ring.
seaslug wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:29 am I've had the Racor on my boat since it was new in 2004 and I would recommend looking for a different filter. Every time I need to change out the filter I have to put the unit in a vise and destroy the filter to get it off the housing, even breaking the plastic the last time. It's not leaking , amazingly, but it's poorly designed and sometimes takes me an hour just getting the filter off. I've read other guys reporting the same problem.
Wow, good input. Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:56 pm
by TomW1
Casey, Racor are the best but get the metal tank ones and change the filter every 6 months. This was Cracker Larry's maintenance schedule.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:19 pm
by willg
Casey, assuming the link below works, it will take you to the page on my thread where I asked a similar question about fuel filters. Following Larry's advice, I went with all metal for the filter (the head and disposable can).

https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100

Waiting on some new pics from you ....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 pm
by cape_fisherman
seaslug wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:29 am I've had the Racor on my boat since it was new in 2004 and I would recommend looking for a different filter. Every time I need to change out the filter I have to put the unit in a vise and destroy the filter to get it off the housing, even breaking the plastic the last time. It's not leaking , amazingly, but it's poorly designed and sometimes takes me an hour just getting the filter off. I've read other guys reporting the same problem.
I changed racors on a twin engine a couple months back. Boat on a lift...15 minute job...no issues.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape_fisherman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 pm
seaslug wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:29 am I've had the Racor on my boat since it was new in 2004 and I would recommend looking for a different filter. Every time I need to change out the filter I have to put the unit in a vise and destroy the filter to get it off the housing, even breaking the plastic the last time. It's not leaking , amazingly, but it's poorly designed and sometimes takes me an hour just getting the filter off. I've read other guys reporting the same problem.
I changed racors on a twin engine a couple months back. Boat on a lift...15 minute job...no issues.
Maybe they have fixed this issue then.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:16 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:19 pm Waiting on some new pics from you ....
I took some pics, now to get them posted.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok here are a couple of the latest. Not a lot of progress, but some.

This first pic is of the drain tray that rests under the long channel drain.

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The drain tray has a slope of about 1/8 per 12 inches to move the water toward the 1.5 drain that will be glued to the bottom of the tray. I used an electric plane for making the slope, after finding two scrap pieces that were almost identical.

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Next up here is what I plan to work on.

1. Finalizing the positioning of all of the chase tubes, and gluing them together
2. Finish a few more oversized holes that need to be drilled and filled that are adjacent to the live well and bait well. Specifically for the mounting bolts for the fuel and water separator, the 2 cycle oil tank, and an electronic box that works with the trim and troll set up.
3. After that I will begin glassing in the bulkheads, Lord willing.

My wife and I plan to build a new home on a piece of property we purchased. This will be the third new home we will have built since I began this boat build. Homes, babies, work and life keep getting in the way of completion, but I would not change that. I mean once the boat is done what will I do with my evenings? I guess build another one. Maybe the FS18 or a drift boat. :D

However, I do hope to finish the boat before we move into the new house, because moving all the boxes of parts, setting up shop, and positioning the trailer with wheels removed, is getting old.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is one more pic of the cockpit drain. Next I will epoxy the 90 with the baseplate to the tray, which will be epoxied to the underside of the sole.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:29 pm
by Eric1
That's going to be Nice!! Good thinking!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:11 pm
by BarraMan
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90794-46866 (Large Water Separator / Fuel Filter 8mm inlet) A$174.19
90794-46875 (Large Water Seperator / Fuel Filter 10mm Inlet) A$174.19
90794-46868 (Replacement 10 Micron filter > 250HP) A$50.40

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:29 pm That's going to be Nice!! Good thinking!!
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:11 pm Image

90794-46866 (Large Water Separator / Fuel Filter 8mm inlet) A$174.19
90794-46875 (Large Water Seperator / Fuel Filter 10mm Inlet) A$174.19
90794-46868 (Replacement 10 Micron filter > 250HP) A$50.40
Thanks BarraMan for the clarification!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is more progress on the cockpit drain. The first pic is of the tray being epoxied down to the underside of the sole. The second is of the sole in place, and the third shows the drain cover on the tray. The next two pics are of the epoxy plug used for the live well/bait well fitting that passes through the bulkhead. One shot with just the whole, and the other with the fitting in place.

Then a few random pics of other items I am working on - spacing for the Trim N Troll and the 2 stroke engine oil container. These will mount between the transom and the last bulkhead toward the transom. Now I am working on the final fit for the chase tubes, in preparation for glassing the bulkheads.

The last pic is of an old air filter (used 1 month so not real dirty) that makes a great work location for mixing epoxy. It helps soak up any spills or drops from mixing. If you get it on your hands, simply use the metal on the filter to scrape it off, same goes for scraping off any excess epoxy off of the mixing sticks, if you plan to use them again. And if you swap filters every month, then you continue to have a fresh mixing station for soaking up more spills, etc. What can I say, I like to recycle. =)

Casey

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Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:23 pm
by Jeff
Casey, you do some really nice work!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:23 pm Casey, you do some really nice work!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:41 pm
by cvincent
Nice work Casey! I am currently using one of the sierra fuel water seperator kits with the spin on filter. I change the filter out every year. The filters are available at academy, amazon, west marine, etc.. and are reasonably priced. I used this kit on my DF200 suzuki for the past 8 years with no problems.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:41 pm Nice work Casey! I am currently using one of the sierra fuel water seperator kits with the spin on filter. I change the filter out every year. The filters are available at academy, amazon, west marine, etc.. and are reasonably priced. I used this kit on my DF200 suzuki for the past 8 years with no problems.
Thank you sir. Excellent feedback. I ended up picking up a Racor, because it happened to be what the dealer I have purchased all of my Evinrude parts from uses. Here's hoping it works!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More progress. Here are the chase tubes coming up through the locker floors.

The pic of the wood with all the holes is me experimenting with the tubes that will hold the tips of the fly rods when they are stored under the gunnels.

The plan is for the pvc pipe to be recessed into the back side of the bulkhead, and the front to be a smaller hole that lines up with the inside diameter of the pvc and has a 3/8th round over to make it look nice and clean. It took a few tries but I found the right depth that will work with both the drill and the router's ballbearing surface.

It is sad not having Larry around to comment on all of our progress. =(

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some updates on the rod holders. I am working on the spacing of the holders, thinking through the hooks that will eventually be cut into the bulkhead in the middle of the boat, and the angle I want the rods to rest in relation to the hull. They will probably angle inward toward the center of the boat some because of their length. If they have to bend too much they may never rest on the hook that will be cut into the middle bulkhead, so I think I know a simple fix for this, one that moves the tip toward the centerline but still plenty under the gunnel.

A typical fly rod is 9 feet long. At least most of mine are. I have one a six weight that is long at 10' 6", and a few trout rods that are 8' 9", but all of the bass and salt fly rods are 9', with the exception of a shorter 13 weight. The top holder will probably be able to store even the 10' 6" because this is such a long boat.

Interesting fact, this Phantom is actually a 20 foot boat, and not an 18. I would like to rename the thread the Phantom 18 (Phantom 20) in North Texas, to be more accurate. Not sure how to do that. Maybe an admin can.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:03 am
by Browndog
Those are some mighty nice fly rods and reels you got. Keep up the good work on the boat. It is looking great and is an inspiration for me to follow.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Browndog wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:03 am Those are some mighty nice fly rods and reels you got. Keep up the good work on the boat. It is looking great and is an inspiration for me to follow.
Thanks Browndog! Hopefully I can get some more work in this weekend.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have cut the boards for the coaming. Later I'll post a pic - pretty basic strips of 2" x 1/2" ply that are each going to be 11 feet long. They will bow toward the centerline, creating a larger front deck.

Today I am hoping to tab in the first two bulkheads closest to the transom.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:20 pm
by Eric1
Glad you're making some progress. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:20 pm Glad you're making some progress. :)
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here I am squaring up the first bulkhead. It has some slight warp so it took a bit to get it perfect. I used some aluminum I have for the trailer. I also drilled and filled three holes that will be used to mount the directional valve for the live well and bait well. Next up I will double check the level of the boat with a water level and will then tab in the bulkhead.

One pic is where I am sealing the edges of the bulkheads. Another of the boards I cut for the coaming. One of my youngest Jude, he loves to clean saw dust. The last two are of the progress on the center console. I am working on sanding it smooth, and filling some holes and low spots. The round over for the helm column is working great. Next on the center console, I will round over the edges, and begin to glass the inside in a few key locations for strength. Then I will mess with the hatch for the front and back, and will proceed with glassing the outside.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
I just came across this post from Cracker Larry and it warmed my heart. I had never seen it before. I guess you never realize the impact of words on a friend.

Casey
Cracker Larry wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:48 pm
What ya gonna do :?
Casey (Flyfishingmonk) gave me some real good advice a couple of years ago. Always default to the side of grace. I've tried to follow that advice ever since, sometimes it ain't easy, but it works. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Life is too short to worry about the little things. I've still got a boat to fair in the morning either way, and another one to build when this one is finished :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Does anyone have any opinion on the best way to dress up the transom area as it relates to the various things that go to the boat's motor.

Here is what I am looking at so far. The first is pretty straightforward and is from TH Marine. The second is for the hydraulic steering from SeaStar, and I specifically like how the hoses come equipped with two small bulkhead style fittings and some extra material that covers the exposed hose from UV light.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:53 pm
by Jeff
Casey, great quote from Cracker Larry. I had not seen this one either!!! Thanks for sharing!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The first bulkhead has been tabbed into place. Yes!

The green food coloring makes it easy to eye the water in the level.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:25 pm
by glossieblack
Bit of a milestone Casey, and looking good. Enjoy! 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:25 pm Bit of a milestone Casey, and looking good. Enjoy! 8)
Thanks Glossieblack!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:55 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Nice looking work Casey! I really like the rod holders! I may have to rob some ideas from you.

On a side note, Cracker and I had a personal conversation about your suggestion of "Default to grace".
On a fishing trip a couple of years before he passed I noticed that he had mellowed a bit.
I questioned him and he mentioned your statement, I'm 100% positive it had a profound affect on him.
He buried a couple of hatchets after that here on this forum...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:31 am
by Eric1
Looking good Casey!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:52 am
by Dougster
Great build, even better advice :wink:

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:32 am
by willg
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:15 pm Does anyone have any opinion on the best way to dress up the transom area as it relates to the various things that go to the boat's motor.

Here is what I am looking at so far. The first is pretty straightforward and is from TH Marine. The second is for the hydraulic steering from SeaStar, and I specifically like how the hoses come equipped with two small bulkhead style fittings and some extra material that covers the exposed hose from UV light.

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Casey, your build is coming along nicely. The console is very cool, too.

Just my opinion, but unless you need the fuel bulb to be above the deck I think it's better to have it below deck. Less chance of getting caught on something and I think the rigging tube looks neater/cleaner by itself. I have a bulb just below the deck where the rigging tube comes out.

R.e. the hydraulic hoses, I agree that those look nice. You just need to make sure the hoses are the right length for your application. The hose ends won't pass through those bulkhead fittings. For my build I got the hoses by themselves and passed both of them as well as the jackplate wires through a common fitting. If you have a motor guy who will work with you, maybe he'll let you take some hoses with those bulkhead fittings home to test fit in your boat.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:08 am
by swglenn
Depending on the motor you buy some motors don't use a fuel bulb. My Mercury doesn't have one and the dealer said don't put one on. I installed one temporarily because he started the motor off of a pony tank. When I got it home and filled the main tank I used the temporary fuel bulb to fill the fuel lines and the fuel filter and then removed the bulb.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:31 am Looking good Casey!!
Thanks Eric!
Dougster wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:52 am Great build, even better advice :wink:

Dougster
Thanks Dougster!
Aripeka Angler wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:55 pm Nice looking work Casey! I really like the rod holders! I may have to rob some ideas from you.

On a side note, Cracker and I had a personal conversation about your suggestion of "Default to grace".
On a fishing trip a couple of years before he passed I noticed that he had mellowed a bit.
I questioned him and he mentioned your statement, I'm 100% positive it had a profound affect on him.
He buried a couple of hatchets after that here on this forum...
Aripeka - this realization is humbling. It's great to see how one conversation can have such a positive impact.

Thank you for sharing, and thank you for the compliment on the boat.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
swglenn wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:08 am Depending on the motor you buy some motors don't use a fuel bulb. My Mercury doesn't have one and the dealer said don't put one on. I installed one temporarily because he started the motor off of a pony tank. When I got it home and filled the main tank I used the temporary fuel bulb to fill the fuel lines and the fuel filter and then removed the bulb.
Good point. I just did a search and it looks like the Evinrudes do have one for their fuel line. I had never thought to check, and just assumed they all did.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:32 am
Just my opinion, but unless you need the fuel bulb to be above the deck I think it's better to have it below deck. Less chance of getting caught on something and I think the rigging tube looks neater/cleaner by itself. I have a bulb just below the deck where the rigging tube comes out.

R.e. the hydraulic hoses, I agree that those look nice. You just need to make sure the hoses are the right length for your application. The hose ends won't pass through those bulkhead fittings. For my build I got the hoses by themselves and passed both of them as well as the jackplate wires through a common fitting. If you have a motor guy who will work with you, maybe he'll let you take some hoses with those bulkhead fittings home to test fit in your boat.

Will
Will - great advice. I will move it below deck, and have ample room for it in the compartment that will house the fuel filter and the 2-stroke engine oil.

Regarding the hydraulic hoses, I will make sure the dealer will allow me to swap them out if a set is too short or two long. Do you have a pic of this common fitting you used? I had not considered the hoses I will have for the hydralic jack plate, and a bundle of hoses going through one common fitting makes a lot of sense.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:36 pm
by seaslug
I didn't have the benefit of the additional inches from sole to underside of the gunwale on the FS18 or the FS14 LS, to stagger the height placement of the rod holders, but your design and execution is brilliant. What a beautifully thought out build, and look forward to seeing more in the future. Mike

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:16 am
by BarraMan
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:28 am
willg wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:32 am Just my opinion, but unless you need the fuel bulb to be above the deck I think it's better to have it below deck. Less chance of getting caught on something and I think the rigging tube looks neater/cleaner by itself. I have a bulb just below the deck where the rigging tube comes out.
R.e. the hydraulic hoses, I agree that those look nice. You just need to make sure the hoses are the right length for your application. The hose ends won't pass through those bulkhead fittings. For my build I got the hoses by themselves and passed both of them as well as the jackplate wires through a common fitting. If you have a motor guy who will work with you, maybe he'll let you take some hoses with those bulkhead fittings home to test fit in your boat.
Will
Will - great advice. I will move it below deck, and have ample room for it in the compartment that will house the fuel filter and the 2-stroke engine oil.
Regarding the hydraulic hoses, I will make sure the dealer will allow me to swap them out if a set is too short or two long. Do you have a pic of this common fitting you used? I had not considered the hoses I will have for the hydraulic jack plate, and a bundle of hoses going through one common fitting makes a lot of sense.
Casey
Ditto to all of the above!

I have two fuel tanks each with their own filter/water separator and bulb in a below deck compartment adjacent to the motor well. The hose from a three-way tap runs through the bulkhead via a neat plastic support fitting.

TH Marine Bulkhead Strain Relief
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My hydraulic steering hoses, jack plate hoses and engine throttle/gear shift/ battery and electronics cables all run through a single large Yamaha bulkhead thru-fitting and covering sock.
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
seaslug wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:36 pm I didn't have the benefit of the additional inches from sole to underside of the gunwale on the FS18 or the FS14 LS, to stagger the height placement of the rod holders, but your design and execution is brilliant. What a beautifully thought out build, and look forward to seeing more in the future. Mike
Thanks Mike! It will be fun to see people build some similar rod holders.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:16 am
I have two fuel tanks each with their own filter/water separator and bulb in a below deck compartment adjacent to the motor well. The hose from a three-way tap runs through the bulkhead via a neat plastic support fitting.

My hydraulic steering hoses, jack plate hoses and engine throttle/gear shift/ battery and electronics cables all run through a single large Yamaha bulkhead thru-fitting and covering sock.
Very nice sounding set up. I'll check out this Yamaha fitting. Thanks!

I found this on the SeaStar website, and looks to be a good option for the hydraulic hoses for the helm. This is the first time I have seen one with metal, and not plastic.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Bulkhead E has fillets, and is almost ready to glass in. I think I will fit and fillet all the bulkheads first, then run the gauntlet with the glass boxes.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about fuel valves. I have two tanks for this boat, and am planning on placing two on/off valves, one for each tank, just under the gunnel on the starboard side. Graco makes a nice valve for this. I plan for two valves and one T or Y fitting after the valves. I like this better than the three way valves.

So here is my question. How often does a person ever adjust these valves? Once they are adjusted do you basically leave them alone? If so, what are your thoughts on placing the valves right next to the fuel filter in a locker by the transom, as opposed to under the gunnel where they are immediately accessible from the helm. If I go this route, I would thread the valves right into the Racor filter, and run tow fuel lines to the filter. :doh:

The Racor filter came in, it is lighter than I would have thought.

Looks like a decent product.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:13 pm
by BarraMan
Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "adjust"? They are on/off taps - don't you just turn them on or off?

Is it your intention to have both tanks turned on all (most?) of the time and drain fuel from both tanks? I run mine separately - the intention being that if I am going to run out and back to somewhere I go out on the smaller tank when it runs dry swap to the larger tank to get home - with a reserve margin for error.

I fish in some very remote places so with two tanks, I opted to set up two independent systems: two tanks, two filters/water separators - the only commonality being the fuel line from a three way tap to the motor. My two fuel systems run to a three way tap with an outlet to the motor. I have had no issues with my three way tap.

My filters/water separators and three-way taps are all in the aft-most port compartment. Is that an issue in the event of a problem/fire? I don't know! I have two large fire extinguishers easily accessed in the front of the cockpit and figure that quick access to them is more important than quick access to the fuel on/off tap.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:13 pm Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "adjust"? They are on/off taps - don't you just turn them on or off?

Is it your intention to have both tanks turned on all (most?) of the time and drain fuel from both tanks? I run mine separately - the intention being that if I am going to run out and back to somewhere I go out on the smaller tank when it runs dry swap to the larger tank to get home - with a reserve margin for error.

I fish in some very remote places so with two tanks, I opted to set up two independent systems: two tanks, two filters/water separators - the only commonality being the fuel line from a three way tap to the motor. My two fuel systems run to a three way tap with an outlet to the motor. I have had no issues with my three way tap.

My filters/water separators and three-way taps are all in the aft-most port compartment. Is that an issue in the event of a problem/fire? I don't know! I have two large fire extinguishers easily accessed in the front of the cockpit and figure that quick access to them is more important than quick access to the fuel on/off tap.
Good input. Yes by adjust I mean on/off. These tanks are the same size so I suppose I will just pull equally from both sides. As for the valves, I was wondering if fire was a concern as well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:12 pm
by BarraMan
As for the valves, I was wondering if fire was a concern as well.
I have my fuel system on the port side of the boat and all my electrics on the starboard side, the only place they come together is at the motor which is hanging off the transom - so I figure I have the possible fire issue as well covered as I can.

Fire is the scariest thing that can happen to a boat - particularly in remote "croc" country where the boat is essentially your life support system. I never know when I am gonna meet up with one of these!

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28' croc - shot in Northern Australia in 1957

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMann,

Yeah a run-in with that would be nuts!

I have so much stuff going on this boat I don't think I will be able to separate it that nicely. I am thinking the two control boxes for the trolling motors and the jackplate pump being on the port side of the bilge. Then the two stroke oil container and fuel filter being on the other side of the bilge.

At least that is where I'm at. Now as for the fuel valves, I am leaning toward under the gunnel, for safety reasons.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:33 pm
by BB Sig
:help: WOW! I'd hate to run into one of those even in a boat. He looks like he could swallow an FS13! 8O

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:46 pm
by Fuzz
Barraman I think the proper thing to say is "you need a bigger boat" Dang what a monster :!:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:33 pm :help: WOW! I'd hate to run into one of those even in a boat. He looks like he could swallow an FS13! 8O
BB Sig, you never did see the hidden forum threads of Bo-Diddley from the Everglades? He was in an FS13 when he went missing, and some believe was eaten by a big crock with a clock in his belly. The crok had the clock. Not Bo - may he rest in peace. Well... at least in pieces.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:15 pm
by willg
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:28 am Do you have a pic of this common fitting you used? I had not considered the hoses I will have for the hydralic jack plate, and a bundle of hoses going through one common fitting makes a lot of sense.

Casey
Casey, I'm having some computer issues keeping me from loading my own photo, but this is the cable boot and ring I have, and the web site where I got it.

https://www.carolinaboatoutfitters.com/ ... cription=1

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:15 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:28 am Do you have a pic of this common fitting you used? I had not considered the hoses I will have for the hydralic jack plate, and a bundle of hoses going through one common fitting makes a lot of sense.

Casey
Casey, I'm having some computer issues keeping me from loading my own photo, but this is the cable boot and ring I have, and the web site where I got it.

https://www.carolinaboatoutfitters.com/ ... cription=1
Ok I see now. Cool. Thanks for sharing!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:27 pm
by willg
Fixed it. On the left is the standard rigging tube with everything going to the motor. Two hydraulic hoses and the jackplate cable go through the other boot.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:27 pm Fixed it. On the left is the standard rigging tube with everything going to the motor. Two hydraulic hoses and the jackplate cable go through the other boot.
I like it. Looks very nice. Thank you for the clarity!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:10 pm
by Jeff
I agree, very nice and organized look!! Nice, Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Man it is getting hot in TX. I am hitting pause on the boat while I insulate the garage doors, because this heat is making epoxy work very difficult. I have slow hardener and it still thickens and cures very quickly. I installed a split AC and had a professional look at it today to pull a vac on the line and start it up. Very soon I will have a garage with 75 degree temps in it. As for the boat. I glassed in one side of the first stringer I installed. Now to order more supplies while I complete this garage cooling project.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:54 pm
by cape_fisherman
Switch to tropical hardener & it will help. Contact your manufacturer & get them to mix something for you.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:53 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape_fisherman wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:54 pm Switch to tropical hardener & it will help. Contact your manufacturer & get them to mix something for you.
I was not familiar with that hardener. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:01 pm
by cape_fisherman
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:53 am
cape_fisherman wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:54 pm Switch to tropical hardener & it will help. Contact your manufacturer & get them to mix something for you.
I was not familiar with that hardener. Thanks!
West makes a tropical hardener...as do others. A friend of mine uses another brand and says it takes TWICE as long to kick as West tropical.

They are out there...you just have to inquire. Many times companies will custom mix to your specs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:45 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape_fisherman wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:01 pm
West makes a tropical hardener...as do others. A friend of mine uses another brand and says it takes TWICE as long to kick as West tropical.

They are out there...you just have to inquire. Many times companies will custom mix to your specs.
Another helpful thought. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The garage insulation is almost done, as is the split AC install.

Here are some pics of the insulation. It came together nicely. 1/2 air space, created with foam glued to the metal door, then radiant barrier facing out to keep the heat out. 1 inch of foam, radiant barrier facing in to keep the cool in in the summer, and the heat in in the winter.

I will be back to building in no time.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:23 pm
by BB Sig
I've thought of doing the same thing to my garage but it is not my primary boat building area except for the FS13 I am building now. I am tempted to through some 2" foam up in the boat barn to cut down on some of the heat. I window unit might be in store for the barn as well.

I'm loving the detail of your build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:23 pm I'm loving the detail of your build.
Thanks for the compliment. Yeah this heat is a killer, and the cold weather just makes your bones hurt.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:53 pm
by cvincent
It has been miserably hot down here in LA. I have two window units on my garage which do a good job of keeping the area comfortable. Insulating your garage door will make a big difference. Your boat is looking great.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:53 pm It has been miserably hot down here in LA. I have two window units on my garage which do a good job of keeping the area comfortable. Insulating your garage door will make a big difference. Your boat is looking great.
Thanks cvincent. I hope the AC guy finishes it up this weekend.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
Oh man get a split AC for your garage if you are in a hot climate. It makes all the difference in the world. If I have one piece of advice for your boat build, it is this. Make the room climate controlled for heat and cold. Even winters here in Dec through Feb make it no fun to be in the garage. After insulating the garage door and installing the AC I enjoy being out there for hours on end. The epoxy is much more cooperative, and does not flash near as fast.

So, after a very busy season at work, I was able to get some progress done, and now have the second bulkhead tabbed into place, and I added some 1/4 inch ply to the bilge box.

On tabbing in the bulkheads, I am finding each one has a slight warp so I am using boards along the top to hold it into place, mixing sticks along the bottom for the right measurements, and then I clamped a level and an aluminum bar along the top to take out any warp while the epoxy cured.

Because my dad and I made the boat 2 feet longer, the front bulkhead ended up being smaller by about an inch on all sides. Instead of using up a ton of epoxy, I simply added wood back.

If you plan to build the PH18 with a redesign similar to what we did, to make it longer, use a scrap piece of plywood for that front bulkhead. Then when you build the hull upside down on the bulkheads and stringers, you can come back and take a perfect measurement for fitting in the actual bulkhead. We played with the shape of the hull until we liked how the chine looked, so having a perfect measurement for that bulkhead before hand would be difficult.

One pic of the second bulkhead, one of the bilge, and one of the added wood to the stringer. Also, don't use blue masking tape, as it sticks to epoxy, at least on the non-sticky side of the tape. Next time I will use packing tape. However, the last time I used packing tape it left a lot of sticky residue. Anyone know of a packing tape that epoxy does not stick to, and will not leave a residue when pulled back off the wood?

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm
by Eric1
Glad to see you back on the build. It's looking great!
I've found cheap duct tape performs well with epoxy. It may leave a little residue on your wood but it will wipe off with laquer thinner and a rag.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm Glad to see you back on the build. It's looking great!
I've found cheap duct tape performs well with epoxy. It may leave a little residue on your wood but it will wipe off with laquer thinner and a rag.
Thanks Eric, and good input on the tape!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:44 am
by pee wee
Also, no matter which tape you choose, the shorter the time the tape is on there the better.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:44 am Also, no matter which tape you choose, the shorter the time the tape is on there the better.
Good call!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress, and one little boy being silly. =)

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:10 pm
by Eric1
The boat's coming along well. Glad you're building memories along the way. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:10 pm The boat's coming along well. Glad you're building memories along the way. :D
Thanks Eric! Slowly but surely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:54 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I want to give a shoutout to the e-boat guys who handle the selling of building products to the Bateau community. I made a mistake on my online order that they caught and made right, resulting in more building materials for less cost than what I had originally ordered online.

Great service guys! Keep up the good work!

And finally I found a pair of gloves that I like, the Gloveworks seem to be the best ones I have tried. Others seem to tear during use. I picked them up from Bateau.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:22 pm
by Jeff
Casey, Thank you very much for your kinds words!!! Really appreciated and thank you for your continued business with us!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:50 pm
by narfi
I really like the textured orange gloves I bought from here,
http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... L_box_N_HD

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
narfi wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:50 pm I really like the textured orange gloves I bought from here,
http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... L_box_N_HD
Yeah those are the ones I am referring to. Good stuff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have the front bulkhead filleted into place, and next up plan to glass wet on wet with the fillet, using EzFillet, and the epoxy from System Three Silvertip.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a new idea I am going to try.

I have glassed with the 6 inch biaxial tape three different ways so far.

The first was to simply put the tape on the boat and pour epoxy on the tape and push it around with a chip brush and a spreader. It kinda works. I always wet the wood with the brush first.

The second was I made two trays (one short and one long) and laid the glass flat on the bottom of the tray. I then poured epoxy on the glass, and spread it out with a spreader. I then lifted the whole piece of tape and applied it to the boat. It's ok. It seems like you get a lot of waste in the tray.

This last time I rolled the tape up and poured epoxy onto the roll, and opened the roll and poured it into the roll. This was in the bottom of the tray, and seemed to keep the waste at a minimum. I would then unroll the tape and put it on the boat. I have liked this approach so far the best. Any dry spots I simply fixed by adding more epoxy with a chip brush.

So here is what I have made. I took a paper towel roll, and cut it in half, and then taped the two halves together to form a rounded tray. I then put a milk carton cap at each end. I put tape over the whole contraption to seal it.

Now I plan to roll up the tape, and pour epoxy on it to wet it out, with just enough. Since the tray is so small it will minimize the waste.

I will let you know how it worked. Here are a couple of pics. One of the tray I have used in the past, and you can see all of the excess epoxy. No matter how hard I try with a spreader to get the epoxy out, it still seems to collet and waste.

The second is the new contraption. Here goes...

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well that idea worked pretty well! (See previous post). I imagine someone has done something similar.

I had very little waste, and if you put a piece of fiberglass that you are going to put on the boat, under the tube, and spills simply get soaked into the glass you are getting ready to use. I can see how this is helping me avoid using too much epoxy, or wasting a lot. If you fold the glass tape like a taco, and pour into the center, it works well. Then I simply pored some here and there on any glass that was not soaked with epoxy. I also used my fingers to push the epoxy into the glass.

It works well for the bulkheads, because the glass tape is shorter. But for the long pieces used on the hull, and the stringers, I think the tray works really well.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:38 pm
by TomW1
Casey you sure do come up with some interesting ideas and they work. Man I looked at the time stamp do you ever sleep. :lol:

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:38 pm Casey you sure do come up with some interesting ideas and they work. Man I looked at the time stamp do you ever sleep. :lol:

Tom
Thanks Tom! I try to get at least 30 minutes of sleep every night, to say alert and healthy!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tired of doing epoxy, I am shifting over to some woodworking, specifically cutting for the floor cleats. Here is some of the progress.

I built a desk about 15 years ago out of mahogany, and fortunately had a lot of the dimensional lumber left. So on the boat it goes.

The last pic if of the desk, I use it every day for my work.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Because of the fiberglass tape, the cleats do not rest flush with the bulkheads and stringers, so I am hitting the ends with a disc sander to get them to rest more flush, minimizing the thickened epoxy I need.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:47 pm
by pee wee
Yikes! That's some expensive wood you're using for cleats, but they look great! You're making progress and cleaning out the wood storage at the same time, I suppose. Is that Phillipine mahogany?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:47 pm Yikes! That's some expensive wood you're using for cleats, but they look great! You're making progress and cleaning out the wood storage at the same time, I suppose. Is that Phillipine mahogany?
I don't remember what it is, I think it is Philippine, and it's beautiful. Too bad it is going to get covered up. Three of the five boards are warped and would be difficult to use for furniture, but when cut into strips the warp is minimized and they seem to work well. Yep, cleaning out the shop and using old wood - killing two birds with one saw... I mean stone.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:12 pm
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:11 pm
pee wee wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:47 pm Yikes! That's some expensive wood you're using for cleats, but they look great! You're making progress and cleaning out the wood storage at the same time, I suppose. Is that Phillipine mahogany?
I don't remember what it is, I think it is Philippine, and it's beautiful. Too bad it is going to get covered up. Three of the five boards are warped and would be difficult to use for furniture, but when cut into strips the warp is minimized and they seem to work well. Yep, cleaning out the shop and using old wood - killing two birds with one saw... I mean stone.

I can truly say the whole boat is made of mahogany. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:55 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Casey!!! Good use of the warped wood!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:38 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:55 pm Nice work Casey!!! Good use of the warped wood!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Another find that will work well for cleats.

I have all of this scrap from the center console, and plan to use it in the transom area since it is lighter than the dimensional lumber.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
I am dropping this pic in here to remind myself to reinforce the bulkhead that holds the rods, so there is more surface area for the rod to rest against, and to make it look visually better.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some progress on the cleats, cutting them all out to make sure I have enough wood.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the bilge. I have taken the box all the way up, and am reinforcing with 12oz 6" biaxial. The strip on the top right comes down a little further to reinforce the plate for the high speed pickup.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Got some cleats done. Little by little.

I found that using a lot of thickened epoxy, clamping in the middle, and coming back to scrape off the excess after five minutes worked really well and sped up the process. Basically over gluing and letting the excess fill in any gaps. Many of the cleats were warped so they worked really well with the low spot between the higher fiberglassed areas on the top of the stringer. Some I sanded to make them fit a little better.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:10 pm
by Eric1
Nice work! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:10 pmNice work! :D
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:55 pm
by Jeff
Very nice!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:29 pm
by TomW1
Nice Casey

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I got a little more work done on the cleats. My 3 year old loves helping with the sanding. He goes around and around the boat sanding all sorts of stuff.

I am reinforcing the front locker for three batteries. C-clamps and wood screws work well for holding cleats in place.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:24 am
by Jeff
Really nice work Casey!!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:24 am Really nice work Casey!!!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am using clamps for holding some cleats as they dry, and screws for others. Progressing is happing slowly but surely.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:00 pm
by pee wee
Step by step, it's coming together!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:20 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:00 pm Step by step, it's coming together!
Thanks pee wee!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a couple pics of the back port and starboard lockers.

Port side has the controls for the trim and troll.

Starboard has all the engine stuff including the 2 stroke engine oil and fuel filter.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Update time. Here is the progress on the rod holders. It may look like three simple holes, but getting them just right took some doing. I see bulkhead B and C as my biggest single hurdle remaining, before the top deck, and both require some fitting for the rod holders.

After getting the holders spaced just right, I proceeded with bulkhead B for the holes that will receive the fly rods. Spacing with the foam templates made it easier to try different dimensions for the rod tubes. The six holes going through bulkhead B each have an 1/8 inch round over. The tubes for the rods seat in an oversized hole that will be reinforced with a plate on the inside of the bulkhead. The inside diameter of the tube is just a tad larger than the hole in the bulkhead side facing the cockpit, the hole inside located between bulkhead A and B is oversized just a tad to receive the pvc, 1' class 200. It's light and easy to bend with heat. The rod tubes may also serve as vents for the fuel tank compartments, but not entirely sure yet.

With the six rod holders in position near bulkhead D, I can now get the measurement for the hooks on bulkhead C. I had to get the rod at the top low enough to be below the fuel fill elbow and hose near bulkhead B, yet high enough to be on top of the second rod, and the reel high enough to be above the drain tube that will be at the back of the cockpit. I used the my largest rod and reel set up to space everything out, a 12 weight sage with an Abel Super 12 reel. The reel I plan to someday own, the Tibor Pacific, is just a tad larger then the Abel Super 12, so it will also fit once I pick it up. You know, just in case I go fishing for ginormous tuna or a sail fish. =)

And a few pics of the kids just for fun. My youngest loves it in the shop. Next up, I am working up a design in my mind for the hooks that will install in bulkhead C, a mix of router work and red EVA foam shaped as slots of some sort to receive rods.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:24 am
by justin_dwyer
Nice work, looks fantastic!! Love your rod holders ;)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:46 am
by Jeff
flyfishingmonk, looks like you have got some really good help!! Nice rod holders!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys! I like how it is coming along.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some progress on my center rod holder that will be attached to bulkhead C. I am using EVA high-density foam and ordered a couple blue blocks to practice with. It will most likely fit it with red to match the rest of the rod holders. The final will hopefully look like the drawing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:01 am
by peter-curacao
Very nice 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:01 am Very nice 8)
Thanks Peter!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
This weekend I finalized how I plan to hold the rods in place at bulkhead C, and I like how it is coming together.

Basically it will be like this first picture, but finished with a little more round over. I ordered two foam blocks to work with, and then two miss cuts ate up all of the foam for the concept design. I was able to get more that very day thanks to same day shipping. Gotta love living in Dallas.

I finished up gluing 1/2 inch more wood to the bulkhead to beef it up some where the foam attaches. I made four templates for the bulkhead, and the forth did the trick.

The foam took way more attempts to get the router, table saw, and chop saw to cooperate with the foam, and to land on a size I like. Basically, I found that if you set the router to the highest speed, and take your time, and try approaching the bit from different directions, and use another foam block to reduce tear out, then it will finally take shape.

I also worked on a drain for one of my lockers, and some more work on the cleats. Soon I hope to glass in the last two remaining bulkheads, B and C. Then on to finalizing the cleats. But first I have to get these rod holders done, and work on a vertical hatch for bulkhead B that will be accessible from the cockpit.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:47 am
by Wouter
Nicely done!! Looks awesome!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:11 am
by Eric1
Very nice indeed! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:34 am
by cape man
Those are awesome! Excellent idea.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:40 am
by willg
Casey, very cool! That foam should work great to hold your rods securely.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys! Now on to working on the last two bulkheads and the first hatch.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is bulkhead C with the extra lamination of 1/2 ply for the rod holders. I like the 1" thickness of the bulkhead above the cockpit floor. Looks better than the 1/2".

I used a long level to get the correct height, and will finish the underside and cockpit coaming when I finish the deck.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:13 am
by Eric1
Really looking good! Carry on!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:13 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Casey, really like what your doing.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Eric and Tom!

I am almost done fitting bulkhead C, and plan to tab it in with fillet epoxy soon. Building another house is getting in the way again. :?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:20 pm
by TomW1
Ah Casey another house don't ya know those cost money and the pain in the arse it takes to move, plus your time to over see that it built right. :lol: I missed a 3 way switch in the master bathroom so don't have one from one entrance to the master bath still irks me after 3 years. :(

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:20 pm Ah Casey another house don't ya know those cost money and the pain in the arse it takes to move, plus your time to over see that it built right. :lol: I missed a 3 way switch in the master bathroom so don't have one from one entrance to the master bath still irks me after 3 years. :(

Tom
Isn't it the truth that one small detail can lead to frustration. Well, my wife and I picked up 1.3 acres that we plan to build on, and I am hoping to coincide the the home completion with the boat completion so I don't have to move a 1/2 built boat a third time.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
I now have the second to last bulkhead tabbed into position. Tomorrow I hope to glass it into place.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:37 am
by Eric1
Very Nice Casey! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Man ol man filleting and boxing in a bulkhead is a lot of work, when you are working alone, especially when laying wet on wet in one full sweep from fillets to glass. Fortunately this is the second to last bulkhead.

I like how the transition from the extra laminate worked out against the bulkhead. I needed an angle so the glass would lay smooth along the transition. Fortunately I found a piece of scrap from the center console that worked perfectly.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Bulkhead C is glassed in. Here are two pics. Next up will be to trim the excess cloth, begin work on a bracket that is right next to this bulkhead that holds all the chase tubes, and then proceed with bulkhead B. But before bulkhead B I have to order a couple hinges and a slam latch from Gemlux. I'll probably order on Monday and hopefully have them in time for next weekend. Tomorrow will probably be less boat building since there is church, a lego Porsche I am building with Colton, and some survey work I plan to do for the new home. But if I am lucky I will squeeze in some work on the boat.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More progress on the cleats. =)

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
UPS delivered the latch and the hinges. I like both. However, I am going to send the top mount hinges back and go with the flush mount. I imagine they will be a little more work to fit into the bulkhead and hatch, but I can tell these top mount will catch the fly line, as they set up pretty high.

The picture below is where the first hatch will go, which is Bulkhead B, right in front of the cockpit. I plan to store life jackets and a ring buoy.

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I am dropping this next pic here so I can come back and reference it later, as I have not thought through how I want the hatches under the bench seat to be. Something like this may work.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Super pumped! Dad came down to lend a hand this weekend on the boat, and we are planning on cutting our first hatch tomorrow in bulkhead B and glass it in. Then on to what ever is next. And mom gets to see her three grand babies, so she is super happy.

We got some good brainstorming done tonight on the hatch, and finalized it's location and design.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:06 am
by Eric1
I hope you and your Dad have fun with the build! smile a lot!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:06 am I hope you and your Dad have fun with the build! smile a lot!! :D
Absolutely! Lots of fun and good stories from dad. - Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is today's progress. We finalized the opening for the front hatch, and got the bulkhead tabbed into place. We recessed flush mount hinges while we were able to work with the hinges. Tomorrow we will glass it in. I am glad I put in the split AC/Heater. It is making it very nice to work even when the temps outside at night are dropping into the 40s.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:24 am
by TomW1
You are to good my friend from the first time you started her till now. I know you will bring her up here for some cold water trout to get away from the heat in the summer. :D That is going to be a fishing machine. Take care and hope all goes welllllllllllllllll.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:16 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:24 am You are to good my friend from the first time you started her till now. I know you will bring her up here for some cold water trout to get away from the heat in the summer. :D That is going to be a fishing machine. Take care and hope all goes welllllllllllllllll.

Tom
Save room for my big butt!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:52 am
by cape man
Great job on the hatch. That will really make the boat.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Eric and Tom!

The last bulkhead is in! If you have done one of these you know how long they take. Here is a great pic of dad. I was so glad he got to come down to visit. He stayed just ahead of me working with fillets, while I worked with the glass. I like to use a level to straighten the bulkhead as it cures into place, and I nail a couple boards into the other bulkheads to hold it right into position as well.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:20 pm
by Eric1
That is really looking great! I confess, I'm not looking forward to this part of my build. :(

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:20 pm That is really looking great! I confess, I'm not looking forward to this part of my build. :(
Thanks Eric!

Yeah, it is no small task.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
And the cleats continue. Nothing picture worthy. If you have seen one cleat...

Next up will be fitting the reinforced areas for anchor points (ice chest, batteries, fuel tanks, electronics, etc).

But over the Thanksgiving break I hope to work on the console with my dad while I'm up in Oklahoma. I plan to take it with me and Summer and the kids so we can maybe make some more progress.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:03 am
by Eric1
Happy Thanksgiving Casey, Y'all have fun! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:09 am
by pee wee
If you keep moving like this, you'll run out of things to do (other than go fishing!). Nice to see such progress, and it looks good as usual.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:03 am Happy Thanksgiving Casey, Y'all have fun! :D
Thanks Eric, and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family as well!

pee wee wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:09 am If you keep moving like this, you'll run out of things to do (other than go fishing!). Nice to see such progress, and it looks good as usual.
Yep Pee Wee, I joke with my wife about this. Thanks for the compliment!



Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
I hope everyone has a very happy Thanksgiving. I put the center console in my Excursion and brought it up to OKC with the fam so Dad and I could work on it. So thankful for that SUV because it has such a large area behind the third seat that I could still fit in the console and lots of luggage.

I purchased a nice piece of Mahogany today at Woodcrafters in OKC to use on the framing for the hatches. Mahogany is my favorite wood to work with. To bad it will be hidden or painted.

The cleats are almost done, and here are some pics of the cockpit floor set in place, and the floors for the lockers. They are not epoxied in yet. I still have a fair amount of work to do before that step. The front locker has only one chase tube but will end up having two when it is complete, thus the large cut out.

Dad and I spent a fair amount of time working on his restoration of a 1930 Cadillac, so we haven't gotten much boat building done the last two days. But the work on the Cadillac was fun. The last pic is of the brainstorming for the measurements for the access panel on the front of the console. Tomorrow we hope to work on the console, and Friday is dedicated to shooting guns. I picked up my son his first rifle, an AR style 22 for plinking targets. He is going to love it. We may even get some fishing in.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:17 am
by Eric1
Really nice work Casey! I would love to see the Caddie if you can post a picture or two! I glad to know you are another family that shoots too. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:56 pm
by TomW1
Casey Happy Thanksgiving sounds and looks like your having some fun and moving along on the boat.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Eric and Tom,

It is coming along. Eric, I have put some pics of the 1930 Caddy at the bottom of this post, along with another cool project my dad totally restored, a 1930 Franklin. I am looking to mimic the colors he chose for the Franklin for the boat. Pearl White. Royal Blue. Beige Leather.

These pics below are of the work on the center console. One is of a nice piece of mahogany I picked up for the cleats.

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And now for a couple of the cars...

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And the boys fishing...

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:09 am
by topwater
Is that a Flathead V8 :?:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 am
by Jeff
Beautiful old cars!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:07 pm
by Eric1
Thank you for the pictures! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:30 pm
by TomW1
Nice Casey.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

TopWater, I am not entirely sure. It is a V8, that I do know. It was completely rebuilt, along with the transmission at a shop up in Minnesota that specializes in cars from the later 1800s and early 1900s. I figure dad has another year or two to go until it is complete. We worked on the vaccumms pump for one of the window wipers in between working on the center console.

Today I picked up a nice pair of binoculars and a spotlight from West Marine. They had a good sale on both for Black Friday / Christmas season. I also got a decent assortment of various screw sizes, one of each, for thinking through all of the hardware that will be installed. This will allow me to work up a list of exactly what I need for each item that will be bolted or screwed onto the boat.

I plan to custom fit under the console holders the following items: First Aid Kit (blue Plano Guide box), radio, deck for the MP3, flare gun (orange bag), and binoculars. There will be plenty of room for all of these items and them some space left over. Each will tie down in some way so they are not jostling around when we are running across the water. These items will be dedicated to the boat, so I can leave them in place and not have to drag stuff back and forth from the garage to the bat every time I plan to go fishing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:05 am
by willg
Casey, I picked up the same spotlight as you. I charged it up over the weekend - it's bright! Like other West Marine gear, I hope it holds up. What model binoculars did you get?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:05 am Casey, I picked up the same spotlight as you. I charged it up over the weekend - it's bright! Like other West Marine gear, I hope it holds up. What model binoculars did you get?
Hi Will,

Good to hear from you. Hope you and your family had a happy Thanksgiving. The binoculars I purchased are the Coastal 200. The price was $99. The price may always be $99, but the sticker said they were half off. You know how they sometimes mark items high to then display a reduced price to entice the buyer. Worked on me I guess. :P

My next purchase will be tie downs for the fuel tanks.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Builders,

I am beginning to think through where I will reinforce all of the items that will need to have anchor tie downs (i.e. cooler, electronics, batteries, fuel tanks, etc).

I am wondering specifically about the fuel tanks. I see various methods used, like ratchet straps, and some solid straps. I will have access to the tanks through a hatch, and am wondering what is the best way to go about anchoring in two 13 gallon Moeller tanks.

So far I am leaning toward the fuel tank ratchet straps. Thoughts?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:46 pm
by TomW1
Casey it really depends on the Moeller tank you have. Moeller designs there tanks for two systems of anchors. One is the wide metal anchors which will have a wide spot in two places on the top/side of the tank. Then the strap system which will have two narrow strap size areas molded into the into the top/side of the tank. The molded areas keep the tank from any fore or aft movement. You will be able to tell real quick which your tanks are designed for by the width of the slots. Moeller sells the strap system and the metal hold downs for each tank. If you go to the Moeller site moeller.com and look up you tank the will list tank hold down kit that works for your tank with the tank if you go to description.

My preference is for straps.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Tom for the input.

Straps it is. I figured a strap would be easiest looking at the grooves that are in the fuel tank, but I had not found a strap I liked. Most were buckles and some I read about have poor reviews. Then I found these - stainless steel from Amazon. The seem really beefy. I ordered one to look at, and then ordered the other three.

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As for the rod tubes. I have three more or so to bend, and they are coming together very well.

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Here is a picture of the three holes for the tubes. I will sand them smooth.

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I also finished up several of the cleats and used other wood and objects to bridge over to the outside cleats to have them level with the inside, while the epoxy cured.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:57 am
by Eric1
Looking good my Friend. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:59 am
by cape man
Ditto! That is going to be a very sweet layout.Nice details.

I like the strap. Going to get a couple for tying down Hermine on the truck rack.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:23 am
by OrangeQuest
It is always good to stop progress when you don't like something and then use something else or do it different. It's all in the details.

Nice build Casey, very nice. And I really like the older cars.

Ken J

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Casey. Why 4 straps. Don't over strap the tank as it needs to expand.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Eric, Cape Man, and Orange Quest, Tom - I am working on the tanks at this very moment.
TomW1 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 pm Looking good Casey. Why 4 straps. Don't over strap the tank as it needs to expand.

Tom
Tom - there are two tanks, so I purchased two for each tank. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress.

On the outside of the tanks, the strap will go through the 1" beam that helps keep the tank in place. On the inside, the strap will go through something like a footmans loop, but more substantial. I'm playing with an idea for the inside, and ordered a u-bolt that should come in the mail soon. If the u-bolt idea works, I'll order three more. They will be installed horizontal, and will be epoxied into the inside stringers. I'll take pics of that part when I get there, as it is a bit hard to explain where the u-bolts will go.

There is a 1/2 inch for expansion (bottom photo), and I will add some drain holes so both sides of the compartment drain into the corner drain incase the tank leaks, or I take a log through the hull.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:38 pm
by TomW1
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:25 pm Thanks Eric, Cape Man, and Orange Quest, Tom - I am working on the tanks at this very moment.
TomW1 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 pm Looking good Casey. Why 4 straps. Don't over strap the tank as it needs to expand.

Tom
Tom - there are two tanks, so I purchased two for each tank. =)

Casey
My bad forgot you had two tanks. :oops: I think my brain is dead from the snow and cold. :lol:

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The cold will make anyone forgetful. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:59 pm
by Jeff
Nice Casey, very well done!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Working on the anchors for the cooler holders. These will be glued under the sole.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:59 pm
by willg
Casey, nice work. Well thought out plan, but that's what we've come to expect from you!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:59 pm Casey, nice work. Well thought out plan, but that's what we've come to expect from you!
Thanks Will, and Merry Christmas to you and your family.

I plan to do some work next week on the center console, and my dad gets to join me. Working with him on a project is always a lot of fun.

I'll be sure to post pics.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well December was busier than I had expected with work activities. I had planned to take a lot of time off and work on the boat but you know how that goes.

I did get some time in on the center console, specifically the frame for the door to access the storage. My three year old, Jude, helped with cleaning up the saw dust. He loves being around and asking how all the tools work. While I worked on the console, my dad worked on the seats for his 1930 Cadillac. The frames are wooden. Actually, most of the cab is wooden.

I used a dado blade to make the rabbits.The table saw cuts faster than the router table.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:56 pm
by Eric1
Looking good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:45 pm
by Jeff
Always good to have family help!! Your build is really looking good!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:45 pm
by cvincent
You are doing a fine job with this build and your kids having fun is a bonus.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys for the kind words! I look forward to getting back on it in 2018!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the idea I am working on for the fuel tanks. Insteaad of a footman's loop I am going with this. So far it is coming together.

Four will be used on the inside stringers, two for each tank. The other side of the tanks will have a slot for the straps through the wood that holds the tank in place. I will not be using the plate or the nuts, as the u-bolts will be set in epoxy.

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As I finalize the idea, I will post pics.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:36 pm
by Jeff
Good planning Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:36 pm Good planning Casey!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some more progress. This pretty much completes the wood prep between bulkhead A and B that are below the sole, which is the area just beneath the lockers for the fuel tanks and life jackets.

Now I will work in front of bulkhead A where the batteries will be installed, then on toward the back of the boat.

I have cut some extra pieces of mahogany for the u bolts that will hold down the fuel tanks.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about glassing the sole and deck. Are builders using 6oz?

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:57 am
by cape man
6 oz should be more than enough.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:59 am
by Jeff
I agree with Cape Man, 6 oz is fine!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Cape Man and Jeff!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got a fair amount of work done today, working on all of the drain tubes for the lockers.

I have ones drain system that ties the two fuel tank compartments between bulkheads A and B to the back locker between bulkhead E and transom, which holds the fuel filter and the 2 stroke oil tank. This system drains into the bilge with a bulkhead fitting (bottom right of photo). This gets all of the lockers with either fuel or oil on one drain system.

The other lockers that all have electrical components or general storage are on a separate drain system. I figured I will generally keep the system to the fuel tank and oil tank compartment plugged just for safety - to keep any fumes out of the bilge. But it is there if I need it. Say I take a stump but don't puncture a fuel tank for example.

In this old photo you can see the two bulkhead fittings that drain into the bilge. The one on the right to the fuel tanks, and the one on the left go to the other lockers. The three barbed nipples above go to the bait well and live well (left and right), and the one in the middle is for the drain coming from the cockpit.

Next up finishing a little cleat work. Then a few minor repairs to the fiberglass on the inside of the boat's hull (from air bubbles I cut out). Then on to to gluing in the chase tubes with PVC glue. After that will be 2 part foam, and then on to epoxying in the sole.

I am really getting motivated to finish because Summer wants me to build her another house. If I don't finish it will be the fifth time I will have moved the boat and/or wood shop during the build. She is not bugging me about it. She never bugs me. But I know she wants to move to the new property and so do I, for the bigger garage. :D


Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:05 am
by cape man
...because Summer wants me to build her another house.
And I thought my Honey Do list was big! 8)

You better get at it!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:02 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Casey and now you have to build a house!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yes I am looking forward to the house project. It will be fun. Hopefully if I finish the boat this year I can work on the house next year. Here is some progress on the boat.

The pic below shows the four blocks that will have the u-bolts that will hold down the fuel tanks. I also added a stiffener so the 1/4 inch ply I used for the floor of this compartment will not vibrate. Its the compartment for the life jackets.

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This is of a stiffener I added that will be just in front of the cooler where a person would stand.

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This pic is also a stiffener for where the captain will stand just behind the center console.

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Here is an additional cleat I added to the fuel tank lockers. There are two tanks so cleats for both.

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The last is me attempting to get every drop of epoxy out of this batch before I order more. With the cooler temps this stuff moves like molasses. I set up the container to just drip in the glass, and it took a good 15 minutes to fill 3 oz.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:44 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I started working with the two part foam. Wow, that stuff will expand on you while still mixing. I started with 10 oz as a trial, and counted to 210 mixing. At 180 it would have been perfect. At 210 it started expanding and overflowing the container so I pored it into the boat. A little got on the floor, which then managed to get on the bottom of two of the kiddos feet. But we had a good time. I tried to talk the kids into foaming in a Lego pirate but they pulled him back out - felt bad for him they said. So no Lego pirate.

On a separate note, I cleaned off the epoxy and glass that was over the plug that I had removed where one of the through hull sounders will go. It turned out really nice. I will epoxy the sounder right to the top of the layers of glass and epoxy that are on the bottom side of the hull.

I remember Larry sharing on his boat that his attempt to shoot through some of the wood failed, and to get it as close to the water as possible. Here are the resulted.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:54 am
by TomW1
Casey things are looking good. You may launch by June or July. :D Hopefully. My estimate. :roll: Know you have things that keep you from building all the time.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:54 am Casey things are looking good. You may launch by June or July. :D Hopefully. My estimate. :roll: Know you have things that keep you from building all the time.

Tom
Thanks sir! That would be amazing to be on the water that soon. Maybe if I shoot for June 2018 I will make it by June 2019. :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:19 am
by cape man
I replaced my GPS sonar last year and getting the epoxied transducer out was a true PITA. Had to grind it out! The new one is glued on top of the hull with a very liberal glob of marine adhesive that will be MUCH easier to get off of and when I need to. Works just as well. I also took the boat out, disabled the bilge and put a few inches of water in there. Watching the display I moved the transducer around the plug to get the best picture before glueing it down. Did all that on the water.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:19 am I replaced my GPS sonar last year and getting the epoxied transducer out was a true PITA. Had to grind it out! The new one is glued on top of the hull with a very liberal glob of marine adhesive that will be MUCH easier to get off of and when I need to. Works just as well. I also took the boat out, disabled the bilge and put a few inches of water in there. Watching the display I moved the transducer around the plug to get the best picture before glueing it down. Did all that on the water.
That sounds great. I will plan for the same. Was it the 3M stuff? - Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:40 pm
by TomW1
Casey depending on which sonar you have you may have to hang it off the transom to take advantage of the 180 degree feature. I have looked at a couple of them to replace mine which is going on 10 years old. If your only going fishing down then mounting like your talking about is fine.

Thanks for the prayers. I am hoping for the best.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:40 pm Casey depending on which sonar you have you may have to hang it off the transom to take advantage of the 180 degree feature. I have looked at a couple of them to replace mine which is going on 10 years old. If your only going fishing down then mounting like your talking about is fine.

Thanks for the prayers. I am hoping for the best.

Tom
Hi Tom,

Hope all is well. I actually have three, one that is a side scan sonar that hangs off the back, and two that shoot straight down through the hull. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:18 am
by cape man
I think I used the clear "Goop"...I'll check.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:18 am I think I used the clear "Goop"...I'll check.
Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:02 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about the seam for the two main plywood panels that make up the cockpit floor.

Are you guys glassing along the top an extra layer across the seam, in addition to the glass you are placing on the cockpit sole itself? I plan to take a 16th off the two panels with my planer, like I did on the hull, and lay glass along the bottom all the way across. Then I plan to glass over this to cover all the square footage of the sole. I ordered all the necessary materials from Bateau.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:16 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I always tape my cockpit floor seams before laying down the cloth. It's the correct procedure, unless you are building some super light something boat where 16 ounces is a concern.
Awesome to see you are making great progress on your boat.
Looking great, take care.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:54 pm
by TomW1
Casey yes tape the seams and land the joint on a frame. Then tape it with 6 oz. and lay down your deck fiberglass.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka, thank for the compliment and feedback. Tom and Arkpeka, I assume only the top side is getting taped on tghe seam? Am I interpreting you correctly.

I figure someone could tape the under side before dropping it in place but seems with the frames there it would not be needed.

Tom are you meaning to tape the seam twice and then go over with the glass? Or just once and then glass?

Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:18 am
by willg
Casey, here's the sole of my PH18. I planed out 1/64" from either side for a piece of biax tape on the up side. After taping the edges of the sole to the hull I covered the whole thing in 12 oz biax cloth. 1/64" was the lowest setting on my planer and it worked out well. Two reasons I wouldn't try taping the down side of the sole: one, I don't think it's necessary and two, a fully assembled sole would be unwieldy and possibly impossible to install. On my build at least that would have been the case due to maneuvering around the chase tubes and the rod holders at bulkhead C.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:20 am
by TomW1
Just once Casey. Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Will, Tom,

That is what I thought. I just wanted to make sure I was understanding you guys correctly.

Looks like the 4 gallons of foam that came with the kit will only cover about 4 to 6 boxes. So I called the friendly guys at Bateau to inquire about more foam and they said that more is not necessarily better, because it adds weight and what's there is plenty for safety.

So I may pick up a little spray foam from Home Depot just help lock in chase tubes and drain tubes in some key areas, not so much for flotation.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 am
by BarraMan
I’m surprised by this response. I would have thought the weight of cured foam would be minimal but the added structural strength and rigidity significant.

I foamed every closed space in my boat

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 am I’m surprised by this response. I would have thought the weight of cured foam would be minimal but the added structural strength and rigidity significant.

I foamed every closed space in my boat
Yes I have been going back and forth on purchasing more foam (more weight and more work) vs. adding foam and gaining some rigidity. However, the boat is plenty rigid without.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Are you guys double hose clamping drain hoses for locker drains under the deck? It seems redundant since it is a low pressure system, they will rarely see water, and what may leak is only some drain water which I am not too worried about. I plan to slap epoxy on each hose clamp and encase it in foam before putting down the sole.

Thoughts?

Casey

P.S. Regarding the pics below - I reused some closed cell foam I had and recycled it in the foam. See the blue. It was what was left over from my experiment for the rod holders. I have found that milk jugs work perfect for mixing foam. After it cures you can crack it back off the jug and reuse the jug again. I have three I rotate. As for the brass fittings, I am epoxying them into place as bulkhead fittings for the drain lines that come from the push pole holders, locker hatches, and the front bow light. All of these hoses will feed into the drain system under the sole.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:26 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Casey,
One hose clamp per connection is a huge plenty on the drain hoses. If you are worried about it coming loose, put some 5200 on the fitting before you slide the hose and clamp on.
On the foam discussion, if it were my boat, I would fill the entire area under the sole with foam. It's a big boat, a few pounds won't matter.
The horror stories of pin holes letting water get trapped under a sole have completely changed my mind about half completed foam jobs.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:26 pm Casey,
One hose clamp per connection is a huge plenty on the drain hoses. If you are worried about it coming loose, put some 5200 on the fitting before you slide the hose and clamp on.
On the foam discussion, if it were my boat, I would fill the entire area under the sole with foam. It's a big boat, a few pounds won't matter.
The horror stories of pin holes letting water get trapped under a sole have completely changed my mind about half completed foam jobs.
Thanks Aripeka! Sounds like a plan. I went ahead and picked up 4 more gallons of foam just to be safe, but appreciate the guys over at Bateau for not immediately jumping to sell me something that is not required, but in this case simply desired.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:26 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Casey, if you haven't met the BBC guys in person, stop in and visit them the next time you are in Florida.
They are truly nice folks.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:37 pm
by Jeff
AA, thank you for the kind words!! Casey, the additional foam is clearly your choice, we would just never push a product for the sell!!! Although I must say, you can never have too much buoyancy foam, especially if you are in trouble!!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:37 pm AA, thank you for the kind words!! Casey, the additional foam is clearly your choice, we would just never push a product for the sell!!! Although I must say, you can never have too much buoyancy foam, especially if you are in trouble!!!! Jeff
That is what I like about you guys, you encourage where it is needed, and are realistic when required, and communicate the areas where it is the builder's choice.

5 Stars for Bateau2!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Builders,

Anyone have any thoughts on this product or have you seen it? It looks like a good alternative to something being rolled on.

http://www.seadek.com/t-about.aspx

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:11 pm
by Jeff
Casey, Seadek is an excellent product and they are continuing to improve it every year!! It is pretty expensive if you cover a big area but I have not heard any complaints on Seadek!!! It is widely used here in Florida!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:11 pm Casey, Seadek is an excellent product and they are continuing to improve it every year!! It is pretty expensive if you cover a big area but I have not heard any complaints on Seadek!!! It is widely used here in Florida!! Jeff
Thanks for the feedback. Do you guys offer it on the site?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:40 pm
by Jeff
Casey, no, Seadek is sold through dealerships and all of the delearships in Florida are sold!! It is very likely that there is a dealership in a major city close to you and if not I am confident they have “approved trained installers” all over the US!!! If you can’t find one close, call me on Monday and I will get you one of the dealerships in Florida to help you!! They would then send a installer to take laser installation requirements and comeback and install!! We have one in Stuart, Florida but I don’t have their contact details here at home!! Again, sorry for the delay of your order!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hey don't sweat that order, weather delays are normal. Sounds good on the Seadek, I think the company I am having paint the boat may install it. I saw them share something on it on their FB page.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:34 pm
by TomW1
Casey this is what I found when I searched Seadek Texas. https://www.seadek.com/blog/yacht-servi ... boat-expo/ There are probably other vendors.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:35 pm
by Tugboat
We use sea deck for all the boats that we manufacture great looking and comfy to stand on the only complaint we have is that the local cats love them to sharpen the claws on makes for short work and makes them look ratty pretty quick

Frank

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Tugboat wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:35 pm We use sea deck for all the boats that we manufacture great looking and comfy to stand on the only complaint we have is that the local cats love them to sharpen the claws on makes for short work and makes them look ratty pretty quick

Frank
TomW1 wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:34 pm Casey this is what I found when I searched Seadek Texas. https://www.seadek.com/blog/yacht-servi ... boat-expo/ There are probably other vendors.

Tom
Tom and Tugboat - thanks for the input. So avoid cats. Check!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
We have been making great progress on the chase tubes and drain hoses.

I find that bending the class PVC is very easy and you can bend it to within a 1/4 of what you want. For example, the two pipes seen below, bent both to perfectly lie in the keel. I find that if you simply clamp the pipe to a ladder, with something just below the pipe for it to rest on when it has been heated up, and you can bend withing a very accurate tolerance. In my situation, using the table of the drill press, since it easily moves up and down, has been perfect for allowing the pipe to bend and then rest on the table and cool into shape.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:24 pm
by Jeff
Cool bends Casey and also looks like you have some good help!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:18 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:24 pm Cool bends Casey and also looks like you have some good help!!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:22 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I have a question about hoses. I purchased the hose (see the black hose in the center), and after working with it I am finding that the side wall is very thin. I am going to swap it out for another kind and plan to just pick some up at the local West Marine.

They will take this back, which is cool because they typically don't take back cut hose.

The two types I am looking at using are as follows, Series 148 or Series 162. Both are reinforced clear PVC suitable for below waterline applications, which is what I need as these will be for the recirculation of the water from the live well and bait well back out below the water line.

Anyone have any experience with below waterline hoses, to a degree that you have an opinion on them?

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:31 am
by reefie
Anyone have any experience with below waterline hoses, to a degree that you have an opinion on them?
I use Flow-Rite/Kwik-Lok fittings and hoses - top quality and innovative gear https://flow-rite.com/marine/qwik-lok

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
reefie wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:31 am
Anyone have any experience with below waterline hoses, to a degree that you have an opinion on them?
I use Flow-Rite/Kwik-Lok fittings and hoses - top quality and innovative gear https://flow-rite.com/marine/qwik-lok
reefie, those look great. If I had not already purchased all the hose for the above water line part then I would have loved to use this. Once it needs replacing, this will be perfect!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
Any time I need to mix a small batch of epoxy, I simply grab one of these from the fridge, eat it real quick. Clean it out and I'm ready to mix.

My oldest son helped me with the chase tubes, feeding them through the bulkheads and stringers. The youngest thought the sweep 90 looked like a mustache.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:11 am
by cvincent
Casey,

I purchased the same type of black hose you have. I have only used one section of hose at this point to connect a drain in my center console seat compartment. Are your hose clamps cutting through the outside of the hose? I looked at the Series 148 and 162 hoses and according to the descriptions, both would work below the waterline.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:15 am
by narfi
Nice mustache!!



I mustache you a question....


I would do more but I really mustache.....

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:11 am Casey,

I purchased the same type of black hose you have. I have only used one section of hose at this point to connect a drain in my center console seat compartment. Are your hose clamps cutting through the outside of the hose? I looked at the Series 148 and 162 hoses and according to the descriptions, both would work below the waterline.
The clamps are not cutting through the hose, but the sidewall of the hose I guess is the concern, according to the mfg. So I plan to use it in the bilge, where I can change it out, but for under the deck I think I will land with the 148 or 162 below the waterline, as you mentioned.

Casey
narfi wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:15 am Nice mustache!!

I mustache you a question....

I would do more but I really mustache.....
The little guys loves joking around. Usually he is in the boat with a fist full of HotWheels or Legos. I'll use your jokes on him. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am making my own little bulkhead fittings out of barbed nipples. This is for the small 3/8 drain hoses I will be installing under the sole to drain the bow light, anchor locker hatch gutter, and push pole holders. All other hatches gutters will drain either into the cockpit sole or over the side.

Here are the results. The last couple of pics are of the 5/8" drain tubes I am using for all of the lockers. And the very bottom pic is of my latest Bateau order of all the good stuff for the last push on the build.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:28 pm
by Eric1
Nice work!! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:28 pmNice work!! :)
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:21 am
by cape man
I see a very shiny boat in your future with all the Quick Fair 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:56 am
by Dougster
Very nice work with those fittings. I hope to remember that so thanks for the pics.

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:40 pm
by TomW1
Very nice Casey. Those should work well.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:47 pm
by Lucky
What is the beam width of the PH18?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:12 pm
by Fuzz
Lucky wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:47 pm What is the beam width of the PH18?
The study plans say 7 foot 5 inch.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:29 pm
by Lucky
I had read somewhere that the Flats Flyer was not as wide, but it’s comparable at 7’ 6”. Maybe it’s planned cockpit size that was different. Anyways, this boat is turning out nicely.

-Lucky

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Lucky wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:29 pm I had read somewhere that the Flats Flyer was not as wide, but it’s comparable at 7’ 6”. Maybe it’s planned cockpit size that was different. Anyways, this boat is turning out nicely.

-Lucky
Lucky,

Thank you for the compliment. I took a tape and measured my hull and it is right at 7' 5.5". It will top out at 7' 9.5" with the deck. It seems really big.

I can not remember why at the time I went with the Phantom 18 over the Flats Flyer, but I remember looking at both. I did like the longer look of the bow on the Flats Flyer so I lengthened my Phantom to achieve a longer, sleeker looking hull. The hull is right at 19.5' and with the deck it will be just under 20.

Even the hull as planned is really nice. This adjustment did give me quite a bit more room in the locker in front of bulkhead A. For anyone looking to do this, we used 1/2" insulation foam as a template before cutting the hull. If you go this route, make bulkhead A out of cheap plywood and then once the hull is done, fit the bulkhead with the marine grade ply to the shape of the hull, as I had to add wood back to bulkhead A since the bow grew and came off bulkhead by maybe 15 inches.

Here is the foam. And the look it achieved.

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**************

Now for some updates. My mom and dad came down from OKC so dad could help with the sole. We managed to get all of the drain hoses fit, the PVC glued into place for the sweep 90s, and epoxied four panels down. That Gel Magic is so easy to work with. Each hose clamp was incased in epoxy on the screw. I used a lot of reclaimed foam from electronics. The hard white foam that appears to be closed cell. It helps to fill a lot considering the price of the two part foam. I also used some spray foam from the hardware store to touch up some pockets. Great Stuff in Gaps and Cracks works well to shoot into low spots, but does not go very far. You can see all the stuff we put into the boat for weight.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:21 am
by cape man
Your father looks like he is really enjoying himself!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:28 am
by Jeff
Casey, good to know you have really good help!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:10 am
by Eric1
Isn't "Great Stuff" open cell foam? Won't it saturate with water?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:24 am
by OrangeQuest
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:10 am Isn't "Great Stuff" open cell foam? Won't it saturate with water?
I was wondering that also. I have used it in one of my kayaks years ago and as much as it was exposed to water I don't remember it being an issue. But over the years it did break down where the sun hit it. Never noticed it gaining any weight.

This is the answer from DOW: GREAT STUFF(TM) is not considered waterproof and unless it is covered with a waterproof material, it will likely absorb water and break down over time, if submerged or frequently exposed to water. If you would like to apply GREAT STUFF(TM) to fill a small gap or crack that is susceptible to moisture, we would recommend using a waterproof caulking material, such as a silicone-based caulk to seal over top of the GREAT STUFF(TM).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:10 am Isn't "Great Stuff" open cell foam? Won't it saturate with water?
Great question. I am using it as a void filler to reduce sound and fill the gaps where I need to lay glass and resin. For example, around the chase tubes that come up through the floor of the lockers, or around drain fitting hoses or small low spots just below the floor.

I spray it in just before dropping the floor in place. It would have some flotation properties, but if I'm getting water there I have bigger issues - either a whole in the boat or someone cut out a section of the floor. I think the 12 or so gallons of 2 part foam will keep me afloat. And that does not include all the other recycled foam I entombed in the expanding foam. I am foaming every box under the floor.

Below are the two areas I am referring to.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:33 am
by flyfishingmonk
cape man wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:21 am Your father looks like he is really enjoying himself!
Dad is a hard worker and we have a lot of fun laughing and coming up with ideas.
Jeff wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:28 am Casey, good to know you have really good help!! Jeff
Working with dad and my three kids makes for a lot of fun.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
I got a decent amount of work done this week on the boat. The back two locker floors are almost ready to be epoxied on the cleats.

I am fitting the underside of both with extra plywood for the hardware that will be mounted in them.

I sealed the underside of the plywood for the sole.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:38 am
by OrangeQuest
Everything looks like it is coming along great! What size is that fuel tank? And looks like it has electrical wires coming off it, sending unit? Looks small.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:18 am
by reefie
Think you will find that the tank you are referring to is the remote 2 stroke oil resivour - my guess is for an etec?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest, good question. reefie is correct, the small tank is for the 2 stroke oil. I will post up some pictures of the reinforcing I epoxied under the floor of the locker for mounting this tank.

Below is a picture of the fuel tanks. Two 13 gallon tanks.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:38 pm
by narfi
Looking good.
I did notice two bolts through plywood not oversized and filled. Was that just for fitting and still to be done?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
narfi wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:38 pm Looking good.
I did notice two bolts through plywood not oversized and filled. Was that just for fitting and still to be done?
Correct. That was to find the location of the stiffener board for under the floor. Once the floor is in, I will drill out the oversized holes and fill and drill again for the correct size of the stainless steel wood screws.

Here are a couple more pics of the stiffener boards. And one of the chase tubes I am centering in preparation for the two part foam. I am heating the garage up so the foam will expand better.

I like to use plastic wrap for covering small parts it makes it easy to clamp them or set weights on them to hold them in place without concern for stuff sticking together.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 pm
by Eric1
If you're happy so am I! Build on!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 pm If you're happy so am I! Build on!! :D
Slowly but surely. I tell you what, this 2 part foam is so unpredictable. One batch will not expand too much, then the next batch will fill up the whole box. It's hit or miss. I just locked in the three chase tubes. What I like about the foam is how quickly it cures.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:59 pm
narfi wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:38 pm Looking good.
I did notice two bolts through plywood not oversized and filled. Was that just for fitting and still to be done?
Thanks! And correct. That was to find the location of the stiffener board for under the floor. Once the floor is in, I will drill out the oversized holes and fill and drill again for the correct size of the stainless steel wood screws.

Here are a couple more pics of the stiffener boards. And one of the chase tubes I am centering in preparation for the two part foam. I am heating the garage up so the foam will expand better.

I like to use plastic wrap for covering small parts it makes it easy to clamp them or set weights on them to hold them in place without concern for stuff sticking together.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:09 pm
by Jeff
Casey, that is very odd as the buoyancy foam, Part A and Part B, was poured from the same 55 gallon drums. Never had any issues with inconsistency!! Give me more feedback as you complete the foaming process!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:19 pm
by peter-curacao
do you mix it with a drill and paint mixer? if not try that

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:09 pm Casey, that is very odd as the buoyancy foam, Part A and Part B, was poured from the same 55 gallon drums. Never had any issues with inconsistency!! Give me more feedback as you complete the foaming process!! Jeff
I noticed it with more with the Evercoat brand I picked up. I imagine it has to do with temps. But some seem to really grow, others seem to be normal consistency similar to the Bateau. Now my Bateau foam is several years old, because it was what originally came with the kit.
peter-curacao wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:19 pm do you mix it with a drill and paint mixer? if not try that
I don't think its stir time as I simply stir it until it starts to expand then I poor it in. It seems really mixed well, when I do a batch of 20oz. My fear with a paint mixer is it would be such a mess to get off the paint mixer each time. It cures so fast.

I'll get some pics and post up. The last small batch grew really well, with the garage heated up.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:43 pm
by peter-curacao
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm I don't think its stir time as I simply stir it until it starts to expand then I poor it in. It seems really mixed well, when I do a batch of 20oz. My fear with a paint mixer is it would be such a mess to get off the paint mixer each time. It cures so fast.

I'll get some pics and post up. The last small batch grew really well, with the garage heated up.

Casey
because it goes of doesn't mean it's mixed sufficient, electric mixer mixes better and faster before it goes of,use the cheap plastic ones they aren't to hard to clean and when it becomes to hard throw away and use a new one,It did help getting more balanced batches.
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
peter-curacao wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:43 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm I don't think its stir time as I simply stir it until it starts to expand then I poor it in. It seems really mixed well, when I do a batch of 20oz. My fear with a paint mixer is it would be such a mess to get off the paint mixer each time. It cures so fast.

I'll get some pics and post up. The last small batch grew really well, with the garage heated up.

Casey
because it goes of doesn't mean it's mixed sufficient, electric mixer mixes better and faster before it goes of,use the cheap plastic ones they aren't to hard to clean and when it becomes to hard throw away and use a new one,It did help getting more balanced batches.
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Hey! Now that does look nice. That is not what I was thinking at all. How tall is that? Is it huge, like for a 5 gallon bucket? Or do they make a smaller one for say a one gallon paint can? I'll look around on Amazon.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:20 pm
by Jaysen
Lowes has the small ones in the paint section. do NOT use them in a big drill unless you use the "go slow" setting. Please don't ask me how I know this.

The one problem I had was all temp related. Warm it up and the stuff dang near explodes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:20 pm
by peter-curacao

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:42 pm
by OrangeQuest
reefie wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:18 am Think you will find that the tank you are referring to is the remote 2 stroke oil resivour - my guess is for an etec?
:oops: :oops: And the fuel tank a few pictures up! :oops: :oops:
Oh! I see the dip stick, fill cap and the bulb to prime it? Warning system to warn when low. One of my brothers had a two stroke and it had the oil tank but I have never cared for them.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:42 pm
reefie wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:18 am Think you will find that the tank you are referring to is the remote 2 stroke oil resivour - my guess is for an etec?
:oops: :oops: And the fuel tank a few pictures up! :oops: :oops:
Oh! I see the dip stick, fill cap and the bulb to prime it? Warning system to warn when low. One of my brothers had a two stroke and it had the oil tank but I have never cared for them.
Yeah hopefully it will be a nice engine. I selected it for the lower weight.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:20 pm
by OrangeQuest
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 am Yeah hopefully it will be a nice engine. I selected it for the lower weight.

Casey
They have been getting a lot of good reviews! And your build is coming a long great! Seems the "crew" is always helping out to get it on the water!

My feelings about 2 cycle outboards is the older ones more than anything, newer ones I know little about. Back in the day I owned a very old fiberform with a Ford boss engine. Show up at the marina and get in line to launch. A lot of the boats in front of me would be of the 2 stroke variety and some would start their engine before backing it down into the water, not really sure why. There wasn't a one of them that didn't have to hit the starter two or three times and when the engine kicked off it would rev up and blow blue smoke out. Cold engine and excessive oil/fuel mix. As they idle away you could still see the blue smoke drifting behind each boat.

My boat may have looked old and faded but when I hit the key the starter engaged then just a low rumble of all cylinders giving it life. No smoke just the bubbling noise of power coming to the surface.

Ken J

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:20 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 am Yeah hopefully it will be a nice engine. I selected it for the lower weight.

Casey
They have been getting a lot of good reviews! And your build is coming a long great! Seems the "crew" is always helping out to get it on the water!

My feelings about 2 cycle outboards is the older ones more than anything, newer ones I know little about. Back in the day I owned a very old fiberform with a Ford boss engine. Show up at the marina and get in line to launch. A lot of the boats in front of me would be of the 2 stroke variety and some would start their engine before backing it down into the water, not really sure why. There wasn't a one of them that didn't have to hit the starter two or three times and when the engine kicked off it would rev up and blow blue smoke out. Cold engine and excessive oil/fuel mix. As they idle away you could still see the blue smoke drifting behind each boat.

My boat may have looked old and faded but when I hit the key the starter engaged then just a low rumble of all cylinders giving it life. No smoke just the bubbling noise of power coming to the surface.

Ken J
Yeah I imagine the older ones are not all that great, but the newer 2 strokes seem to be pretty good. I guess we'll see. I always have the push pole as a backup. :lol:

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
So I am married to the sweetest women in the world. I have had this in the front entry way for almost a week and a half and she has not complained once. I wonder how long it will sit there before she mentions it...

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:56 pm
by Jeff
Casey, I think you might just be pushing the envelope by your console being there that long!!!! It does look good though!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:56 pm Casey, I think you might just be pushing the envelope by your console being there that long!!!! It does look good though!! Jeff
I hope it does not just vanish. There is a lot of hours in that thing!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:18 pm
by OrangeQuest
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:59 pm
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:56 pm Casey, I think you might just be pushing the envelope by your console being there that long!!!! It does look good though!! Jeff
I hope it does not just vanish. There is a lot of hours in that thing!

Casey
And when it is gone you ask her and her reply maybe "Console!? what console?....I never noticed!" You are playing with fire!!!

I know my first ex wife would have sold it by now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:18 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:59 pm
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:56 pm Casey, I think you might just be pushing the envelope by your console being there that long!!!! It does look good though!! Jeff
I hope it does not just vanish. There is a lot of hours in that thing!

Casey
And when it is gone you ask her and her reply maybe "Console!? what console?....I never noticed!" You are playing with fire!!!

I know my first ex wife would have sold it by now.
I better move it....

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
I lost some build time doing some work on the car, but it was good, and a successful repair. Now back to the boat. Here is the latest.

The two lockers at the back now have the floors glassed. It went very well. I cut out the glass for the anchor locker, life jacket locker, and the fuel tank lockers has now been cut and is ready to glass into place.

I abandoned the original barbed drain fittings I had for the cockpit and the bait and live well, and am replacing it with rigid pvc instead of hoses and clamps. I tried three different hoses and all three still seemed like they would eventually loosen, even with hose clamps. The barbed fittings I have (two different manufacturers) simply have too small of an outside diameter and with it being permanently glassed under the floor I just did not feel good about it.

Jude loves working on the boat and he enjoys being in charge of the shop vac. You can also see in a couple of the pics the drains for some of the lockers, and the foam I have recycled by entombing it into the two part foam.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:51 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have not worked on the boat much the last few months, because of how busy life and work has been. But a break has allowed me to get some progress done. The compartments for the fuel tanks and the batteries (very front of the bow) have both been glassed. I went back and re-plumbed the drains for the live well and bait well with fixed pipe, and did not use the flexible pipe. This meant I had to heat some of the pipes to bend them and get them to fit. I then proceeded to work on the tie downs for the fuel tanks, and like how they came together.

Next up, the battery compartment.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:22 am
by cape man
Nice work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:53 am
by Jeff
Agree with Cape Man, really well done and good to hear from you!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:58 pm
by TomW1
Glad to see you back at it guy sure miss it when your not showing your build porn. Hope all is well and the new house is coming along well also. That has to take a lot of your time.

Regards and best wishes.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks everyone! It's nice to get some time in on it.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:56 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The last few days I worked on the cleats for the top of bulkhead A, and in this case made them all in one pass. The bulkhead, since I lengthened the hull, is a little lower so I used a new dado blade I picked up to rabbit cut the length of a 1" piece of mahogany for the cleat. I really like how it turned out. Next up I am working on the cleat for Bulkhead B, and the fabrication of the battery tray. So far the cuts I have made on the battery tray have come along nicely. It will hold three batteries. Once I have made a decent amount of progress on the battery tray I will post pics.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am
by glossieblack
Beautiful work Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:18 pm
by TomW1
Nice Casey. A good set of dado blades can do some great things. Your boat is going to be outstanding.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the fuel tank tie downs. I like how it came together. Once installed there will be two straps per tank. The last couple pics are of the lumber I picked up for more cleats, gutters, etc. And then there is Jude at the boat store. He loves messing with the merchandise.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the battery tie downs. I will have it held in place at with bolts at the bottom, and a strap over the top just for good measure.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 pm
by Fuzz
The boys look like they are having too much fun boat building.
That is a slick set up for holding the battery in place.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 pm The boys look like they are having too much fun boat building.
That is a slick set up for holding the battery in place.
Thanks Fuzz! Yes, they have fun, and my wife is always kind to help hold the boards as I cut them. She's a trooper.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:49 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some more progress.

The frame for the hatch through bulkhead B is coming along nicely.

Fortunately the Rockler store has a good selection of mahogany. This evening I epoxied in the fuel tank u-bolts (for the straps), and the large cleat support that goes along the top of bulkhead A.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:52 pm
by Eric1
Nice work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Wed May 16, 2018 1:52 pmNice work!
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of the battery tray. I like how it is taking shape. It will hold three batteries - on starter and two for trolling.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:29 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nice looking tray.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:37 am
by glossieblack
Nice detailing. 8) What are nuts shaped like this called?

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 am
by OrangeQuest

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:23 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have always referred to them as blind nuts, since they tighten up flush when used with a countersink.

I believe he is right with them being called tee nuts too.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:31 am
by Jaysen
I’ve always called them “PEM nuts” even though that’s more metal/automotive. T nuts have always been what you use to hold fixtures in T track. It may be that some old timer adopted the pem name to keep folks like me from screwing things up too badly though...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
T track is very helpful stuff, especially when on a table saw or on my router.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am setting this gem right here so I don't have to hunt for this pic in the future.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:48 pm
by Eric1
Bellissimo!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:22 pm
by Jeff
Yes, beautiful!!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That is Dougster's, he made a very nice craft.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am
by Dougster
Lord no, I never made something that beautiful! I did the LB22, Plyak, and SK14.

8O Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Dougster wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am Lord no, I never made something that beautiful! I did the LB22, Plyak, and SK14.

8O Dougster
Then I am trying to remember who's that one was. Hmm....

I'll have to look for it when I have a few mins.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have almost completed the battery tray. It is tied down in 6 places. Against bulkhead A it will be simply wedged under two blocks. Then there will be two posts that will have 3/8 ths bolts that hold it down, in addition to a strap that will go over the batteries. The post is the 2 x 3 that is in the photo, and the strap will go through a u-bolt, same size I used for the fuel tie downs. You can also see two vertical posts for mounting the battery charger, and on the opposite side will be a similar post for mounting the horn. They are adjacent to bulkhead A. They also hold up the deck frames and cleats (cleats are not in the photo). I did get the cleats epoxied onto the deck brace but did not get photos of them yet.

Then at the very bottom are some pics of the frame for the hatch that goes in bulkhead B. The cleat that runs along the top of bulkhead B is also the top frame for the seal for the hatch.

I have also started on a box for the anchor, a chain, and two ropes, but no pics of those yet. I really like how the anchor box is coming along.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress... and lots of clamps.

The pic is hard to tell, but this is the back side of the frame for the hatch that goes through bulkhead B. And then a pic looking forward.

The bottom picture is of the frame on the front side of the center console, specifically the panel that will screw on and will have the back seat cushion for the cooler seat.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:33 am
by pee wee
Looks good, nice progress!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:55 pm
by willg
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 10:05 am
Dougster wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am Lord no, I never made something that beautiful! I did the LB22, Plyak, and SK14.

8O Dougster
Then I am trying to remember who's that one was. Hmm....

I'll have to look for it when I have a few mins.

Casey
Casey, that beautiful PH16 was built by Doug. I got a lot of inspiration from his build. Here's his 2016 update
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... 16#p379601

Great work - as usual - on your build.

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
willg wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:55 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 10:05 am
Dougster wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am Lord no, I never made something that beautiful! I did the LB22, Plyak, and SK14.

8O Dougster
Then I am trying to remember who's that one was. Hmm....

I'll have to look for it when I have a few mins.

Casey
Casey, that beautiful PH16 was built by Doug. I got a lot of inspiration from his build. Here's his 2016 update
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... 16#p379601

Great work - as usual - on your build.

Will
Ahh that clears it up. Thanks!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:57 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the door frames, and some pics of the new anchor box.

I found that if I use a 1/8th round over on the inside of the frame of the hatches, it makes for a really nice finish.

The anchor box is made with 1/4 ply for the sides, and 1/2 on the bottom. There is one rectangle compartment in the middle that will hold the anchor, wedged between 4 form blocks (yoga blocks). The box then has two rectangle cubbyholes for the chain and ropes. One rope will be 40 feet, one 60 feet, and a 6 foot chain.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 am
by Eric1
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna need to fly you up here to help me finish my boat! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:32 am
by OrangeQuest
Nice set up for your anchor locker but I am not a big fan of the type of nylon rope you are using. For me it twists to easy, when pulling in an anchor it will spin, and then it becomes a tangle mess as when it twists it doesn't lay flat. It becomes very brittle quickly and snags on everything. I used a lot of it for ski rope and each spring would have to replace it due to being exposed to the sun. After pulling kneeboards or tubes all day would have to spend some time letting the handle just spin before coiling it up. Few things I did like about it is that it floats and it's cheap.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:32 am Nice set up for your anchor locker but I am not a big fan of the type of nylon rope you are using. For me it twists to easy, when pulling in an anchor it will spin, and then it becomes a tangle mess as when it twists it doesn't lay flat. It becomes very brittle quickly and snags on everything. I used a lot of it for ski rope and each spring would have to replace it due to being exposed to the sun. After pulling kneeboards or tubes all day would have to spend some time letting the handle just spin before coiling it up. Few things I did like about it is that it floats and it's cheap.
Good input! I had not idea it was that bad. When this stuff gets tangled I'll pitch it for something better. What have you found works best?

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:55 am
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:32 am Nice set up for your anchor locker but I am not a big fan of the type of nylon rope you are using. For me it twists to easy, when pulling in an anchor it will spin, and then it becomes a tangle mess as when it twists it doesn't lay flat. It becomes very brittle quickly and snags on everything. I used a lot of it for ski rope and each spring would have to replace it due to being exposed to the sun. After pulling kneeboards or tubes all day would have to spend some time letting the handle just spin before coiling it up. Few things I did like about it is that it floats and it's cheap.
Good input! I had not idea it was that bad. When this stuff gets tangled I'll pitch it for something better. What have you found works best?

Casey
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 am I'm pretty sure I'm gonna need to fly you up here to help me finish my boat! :)
Heck yeah, fly me up and we can work on it for a few days!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:38 am
by OrangeQuest
I like this stuff.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/aamstra ... -per-foot/
It lays flat, easy to tie knots and knots hold but easy to untie too, even when it gets wet. When pulling into an anchor locker because it lays flat don't have to worry as much of getting tangles. You can use longer one piece lengths too, just tie off the amount you need. After using all day if you want to hang it up to dry then isn't effected by the sun so much. Soft and easy on the hands. May be a little pricey but pays in the long run. Use markers to know how much line is played out helps too when setting scope of 50 to 70% of depth.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:38 am I like this stuff.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/aamstra ... -per-foot/
It lays flat, easy to tie knots and knots hold but easy to untie too, even when it gets wet. When pulling into an anchor locker because it lays flat don't have to worry as much of getting tangles. You can use longer one piece lengths too, just tie off the amount you need. After using all day if you want to hang it up to dry then isn't effected by the sun so much. Soft and easy on the hands. May be a little pricey but pays in the long run. Use markers to know how much line is played out helps too when setting scope of 50 to 70% of depth.
Excellent. When this first rope goes bad or I get frustrated and toss it in the trash can I will replace it with this. - Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:42 pm
by TomW1
Casey I agree braided nylon is the best, more expensive than 3 strand but it lays so flat and easy. This might be something you would be interested in when your current line gives out. http://www.boatersland.com/lewhm10ht150px.html

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:42 pm Casey I agree braided nylon is the best, more expensive than 3 strand but it lays so flat and easy.

Tom
Thanks for the feedback. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:55 pm
by TomW1
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:49 pm
TomW1 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:42 pm Casey I agree braided nylon is the best, more expensive than 3 strand but it lays so flat and easy.

Tom
Thanks for the feedback. =)
Casey added something to my post.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:05 pm
by Jaysen
I swapped all the 3x for braid in Lil Bit pretty quick. 50' of gordian* anchor line in the bow was just not fun. Even with a 5gal buck to feed it into it would be a mess. The braid goes in and out like it's on a reel. never knots. Never spills out. Planning to swap sheets later this summer (assuming I get more than a week with the sail up).

* there's a joke in there fuzz... I promise.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Maybe I should do a preemptive strike, and dump the nylon now and go with braid...

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 pm
by TomW1
Casey I took a look at your "nylon" rope. Is it nylon or polypropylene. Nylon is not usually colored like that. The reason I ask is that you said it floats and I don't know of any nylon that floats. Poly on the other hand will float. If it is poly definitely get rid of it. 3 strand nylon I can put up with in an anchor locker. That is what I have. It has been around for years.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:15 pm Maybe I should do a preemptive strike, and dump the nylon now and go with braid...
Get the use out of it first and then stow it as a spare or to loan to someone that needs it. I get all kinds of line that people leave on our rentals. If it is long enough I keep it all in a crate. Never know when someone just needs some line.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:44 am
by topwater
You can also look at 8 Brait anchor line , defender and Jamestown both carry it . Excellent anchor line
but not cheap.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:01 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks for the feedback guys. I will use this a few times to see how good or bad it is and will then replace it with one of the suggestions from the group.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress from the last two or so weeks.

Cleats are now on between the front of the bow and bulkhead B. I had to remove some of the support so the tanks can be taken out in the future if they need to be repaired or replaced, so I beefed up the cleat for additional strength.

Where the support beam terminates at the bow, I added some glass for good measure. Next I will use some thickened epoxy to further bridge the support to the underside of sheer clamp.

The anchor box and battery tray are almost complete, as is the way I intent do tie down these components.

I have one side of the rod end tubes almost done, and need to heat two more pieces of PVC for the other side. Taping one piece of pvc that has been shaped to fit, to a straight piece of pvc, and using a heat gun to bend the straight piece against the piece that already has been shaped, works great. Especially if you keep the straight piece on top and let gravity work for you.

The mahogany with the holes cut at an angle hold the pvc in place against bulkhead A.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:06 am
by Jeff
Nice Casey!! Great progress!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:36 pm
by Fuzz
Looks like two fuel tanks, how much fuel is that puppy going to carry?
Really nice looking work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Jeff and Fuzz.

26 gallons total if completely topped off.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hello Everyone,

Here is the progress on the battery tie downs, and the anchor locker. It is all coming along nicely. I haven't done much work the last month, with how busy work has been. But at least I made some progress today. I met another boat builder in the neighborhood, so that is cool!

There will eventually be three batteries. I plan to make a nice wooden bar that goes over the top of all three to help give even force from the strap. The strap is just for good measure, as the batteries are held from the bottom.

I also epoxied in the post for the horn, and the battery charger. I'll try to get good photos of them.

Next up I have a four more pieces of wood to epoxy for the mechanical tie downs for the battery tray and the anchor box.

I abandoned my original rod tubes, and had completed 6 of them. I purchased more pipe to make the tubes longer, planning to have them extend all the way up in front of bulkhead A. This will give me the ability to hold switch rods without having to break them down. I don't own any but plan to and the original design would only support a fly rod up to say 11 feet.

After that I plan to move toward the completion of the 2 part foam. Once foamed there are still three sole pieces to be epoxied and glassed down. Then I will probably want to do something new so I will probably make headway on the center console, which is about 75% done.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:10 am
by pee wee
Fine work, as usual!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:10 pm
by TomW1
Looking good guy. Casey do you plan to close off that hole between the gas tank compartment and the battery compartment. It absolutely must be done. That is the one sacrosanct rule the USCG and two rules boat building bodies does not allow.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks PeeWee and Tom,

The hole between the gas tank compartment and the battery compartment eventually gets closed. It is an access for removing the fuel tanks if they need to be repaired or replaced.

There will actually be two more panels that hide the fuel tanks, so the life jackets and the life ring can store under the front deck.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:14 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I made a little progress today. I worked on the rod tubes, specifically where they terminate on the inside of bulkhead B, and will go through bulkhead A. I am going with rod tubes that will be about 4 to 5 feet long to accompany switch rods. They are long, between 10 and 12 or so feet.

Also did a little fiberglass, and worked on the front tie down for the anchor box.

I got a new car, but I decided to give it a home in the garage in the third bay. So now things are a little more tight for working on the boat.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:27 pm
by glossieblack
Nice work Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:17 pm
by cvincent
Nice Work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:26 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some of the latest progress. My family came to town for the baptism of my son and daughter, so I had an opportunity to get some work done with the help of my father and brother-in-law.

Rod tubes - they will now support switch rods up to 13 or so feet in length. The last two are of the battery charger. The pipes under the charger are for the chase tubes that take the wires back to the center console.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:13 am
by Jeff
Nice work Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:13 am Nice work Casey!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is this week's progress.

I did some more work on the battery charger mount, added holes for wires to pass through. One side is epoxied down. With it cured I will get the other side level with it.

I proceeded with the foam. I used a jug of coolant to create a void for where one of the transducers will be glued to the bottom of the hull. I like how it turned out.

I think I am getting ready to use gallons 10 and 11. I estimate it will be between 13 and 15. It's overkill.

Anyone know how much ventilation we are supposed to have to the compartments that hold the fuel tanks? Tom?

Thanks!

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:53 am
by Eric1
Good work Casey! I can't answer your question though.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:49 am
by Jeff
Nice work Casey and looks like you have some really good help!! I will leave your question to TomW!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:22 am
by TomW1
Hi Casey staying up watching a taped replay of Murder She Wrote with Angela Lansbury. Now as for your question. Since about 2012-2013 the USCG, ABYCj and the other rule making organization passed legislation that prohibited all fuel tanks from out gassing any gasses. This in effect eliminated the need to vent the compartment. In effect this required companies like Moeller and other to come up with ways to prevent outgassing from their tanks. Moeller now lines there below deck tanks with a double liner inside there tanks, but you must use there white below deck tanks and not any of there red above deck tanks. I think this pretty much answers what you need.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:50 am
by flyfishingmonk
Ok fantastic. What did it use to be, out of curiosity?

Murder She Wrote, what a classic.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:21 am
by TomW1
Casey the old requirement was a vent on one side of the compartment for air intake and an outflow on the other for complete ventilation of the space the tanks were in. The size of the vents were dictated by the size of the volume of the compartment.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:21 am Casey the old requirement was a vent on one side of the compartment for air intake and an outflow on the other for complete ventilation of the space the tanks were in. The size of the vents were dictated by the size of the volume of the compartment.

Tom
Ah makes sense. Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This weekend I worked on completing the access panels for the fuel tanks. They will be held in place with screws, two at the bottom and 4 along the top.

Between these panels will be my storage for life vests and a life ring. I like how it turned out. It looks real clean.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:10 am
by Jwhitakeriii
TomW1 wrote: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:22 am Hi Casey staying up watching a taped replay of Murder She Wrote with Angela Lansbury. Now as for your question. Since about 2012-2013 the USCG, ABYCj and the other rule making organization passed legislation that prohibited all fuel tanks from out gassing any gasses. This in effect eliminated the need to vent the compartment. In effect this required companies like Moeller and other to come up with ways to prevent outgassing from their tanks. Moeller now lines there below deck tanks with a double liner inside there tanks, but you must use there white below deck tanks and not any of there red above deck tanks. I think this pretty much answers what you need.

Tom
This is very good information thanks Tom. You learn allot from other people's builds. Casey your boat is looking really good. I like the access panel idea

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Jwhitakeriii!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 am
by Eric1
After I get the stringers in you may come finish my boat! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 am After I get the stringers in you may come finish my boat! :lol:
If you rely on me it will be 2046 before she floats.

😂

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is an update. I epoxied in the four plates for the center console. Each plat has two bolts. Each bolt has a lock washer
The threads were epoxied, and a blob of thickened epoxy was added to the nut and threads after it was tightened.

I reinforced the drain tray with fiberglass. Next up, completion of the 2 part foam and drain pipe - the pipe goes from the drain tray to the bilge.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:31 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Casey.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:31 pm Looking good Casey.

Tom
Thanks Tom!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:40 am
by Jeff
As always, really nice work Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:40 am As always, really nice work Casey!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the latest update. The braces for the rod tubes are complete, and ready to be epoxied into place. I will add a little glass for good measure. They are mainly there to keep the last few feet from vibrating.

For the foam, I mix in old milk jugs by cutting a hole in the top. It seems to mix in small enough batches that it is easy to manage.

My daughter wanted a Fairy House, so we converted a jug into a Fairy House with a cute little door and a hole up at the top for her to put stuff in. She was pleased.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:40 pm
by Eric1
Good stuff Casey! She's a Sweetheart! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:43 pm
by Jeff
Very nice Casey!! Glad to see you have really good help!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:43 pm Very nice Casey!! Glad to see you have really good help!! Jeff
Eric1 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:40 pm Good stuff Casey! She's a Sweetheart! :D
Thanks guys! Yes, she is a real gem.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I would like your feedback. I am moving toward painting the inside of some of the lockers and the bilge. Thoughts on what to use? I understand that without some uv protection in the form of paint, then the sun can deteriorate the cured epoxy overtime. I am thinking just a gray, so they don't show the dirt as much.

Same would go for the live well and bait well, but in a blue.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:52 pm
by Fuzz
Great pictures. Superb work you are doing. A ton of features in this build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:01 pm
by OrangeQuest
I used PETTIT EZ Bilge and it comes in gray. For a really hard finish it takes a few days and needs lots of ventilation while painting and drying and then a few days more. I am very keen on paint smell and took a week to stop smelling it in a very well vented warehouse.
I rough sanded the epoxy, primed and the next day painted.
3634
As you can see the paint was just to cover, not to make look pretty. Once the hardware went in you can't really tell! :D
3678

I am no paint expert and not even a novice but I was lucky and only got paint on one flip flop.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest - Great feedback. I will check it out. Thanks!

Fuzz - Thanks for the complements!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is this weekend's work. I managed to get the four braces for the rod tubes glassed in with small fiberglass pieces. Since they are not too structural, and are sandwiched between the sole and the deck, I did not use too much glass. The forth hole is for the fuel vent hose, to keep it in place so it does not bounce all around in the fuel compartment. I routed this whole with a round over so the wood is not abrasive on the hose. The top photo is toward the bow. The second photo is in the fuel compartment. The last two pics are of the battery tray.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is an update on the drain for the cockpit. We had to heat the pipe to shift it over about two inches, so it would go through the hole in the bulkhead, and then line up with the drain tray. Jude insisted I take a picture with the hat in it, which he was not interested in sitting it right-side up, but upside-down.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:15 pm
by BB Sig
Good job keeping the little guy involved! The boat work looks good too! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:15 pm Good job keeping the little guy involved! The boat work looks good too! :D
Hey thanks! Tonight I finished epoxying in the drain pipe for the cockpit drain. Next up, I will finish the foam and prepare the cleats for epoxying down the two remaining cockpit sole pieces, and the one piece for the bait well and live well. Hopefully that will happen the weekend after next. Here are a couple pics.

You an also see in one of the photos where I took a glob of thickened epoxy and dabbed it onto each hose clamp that will be permanently under the cockpit sole. These are just little drain hoses for compartments and such. I used two round pieces of 1/4 inch ply, one on each side of the bulkhead, epoxied in place, to hold the pipe in position so it would stay in place for the foam, and for the epoxy to cure that you see around the fitting where it transitions from the straight PVC to the hose that will be in the bilge.

The center one actually simply drains into the bilge, but the two on the outside, will drain through flexible pipes that connect to through hull fitting for the live well and bait well drains. The two black fitting are drains for the lockers. One dedicated to the fuel and oil lockers, and one dedicated to the other gear lockers.

This time of year the large dragon flies always visit, finding themselves stuck flying circles in between the fluorescent lights. This one was pretty calm. I caught him and took a pic. No sooner did I snap the pic and he flew back off - opened the garage door and shut off the light - hoping he would work his way back outside with the glow of a streetlamp.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today I took the morning off and worked on the foam, and ordered the extra glass I need for the remainder of the boat. The crew at Bateau is great to work with. Hopefully in the next two weeks the floor will be down and I will be moving toward the deck and completion of the center console.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:33 pm
by Jeff
Very nicve work Casey and thank you for the kinds words!! Have a nice weekend, Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is this weeks progress. My parents came to visit so dad is helping big time. He did all the shaping of the bow eye reinforcement block, and it fit like a glove with angles going all different directions in the V of the bow, especially when considering the V and the bracket are not parallel along the top and bottom.

The cover to the depth finder is now in place. It sets under the cooler.

Then there are pics of the reinforcements where the cooler holder is mounted into the deck.

Then the k reinforcement block for the bow eye.

Next up, we are gluing down the floor section for the bait well and live well.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today my father and I had the chance to get some great progress done. Now both sections of the cockpit sole are epoxied down, along with the floor for the bait well, center locker, and live well.

I used 2 part foam in all compartments under the floor and lockers for the whole boat. It was A LOT of foam. Obviously for it to float if something happens, but the additional foam is for rigidity and to further sound proof the hull. Now hopefully it wont sound like a drum as we walk on it or toss bags into lockers.

On top of the 2 part foam I used spray foam to fill voids to further reduce the sound. The spray foam is not too waterproof but I am not worried as it is encased in the hull. I was fortunate enough to pick up a box of spray foam for free from Lowe's. One in the box had opened up in shipping and had stuck all the other cans together. I saw it on the floor when I went up there to buy more foam, and asked if I could have it. They were cool and we ended up with a lot of free foam.

I also cut out hockey puck sized sections of foam for where the extra wood is glued on the underside of the sole for the brackets that hold the cooler. I used brown sidewalk chalk, that had been rained on, to make the markings. The soggy chalk worked like a charm. You will also see where I used the electric hand planer to cut out some of the plywood for where the 6 inch tape will go.

Dad helped with a few extra speciality shaped pieces of wood for reinforcing the center console while I worked on the prepping sole. We even had time to cut out sections for the bait well and live well, and fit them into place.

Here are some photos of my kids and my parents along with some of the work we accomplished. Summer was in the house so she did not make the photo.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:07 am
by OrangeQuest
Nice progress! Lots of chase tubes! Hope you know where they all go! :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:07 am Nice progress! Lots of chase tubes! Hope you know where they all go! :wink:
Thanks! Yeah there are probably a couple tubes that lead to nowhere. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Progress on the bait well - locker - live well continues. I was very pleased to find that both bulkhead D and E were almost perfectly perpendicular with one another by a 1/16 or so, and the middle panels fit like a glove. I had paid special attention to their fit before and it paid off.

Here are a few pics of the sealing epoxy I put on before the Ez-Fillet tabs. And then pics of the tabs themselves. Hopefully I will be able to put the glass on wet for the fillets, if time allows. Something to do with work and providing for my family keeps getting in the way of my boat building progress. :lol:

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:05 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:05 pm Nice work Casey!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
The progress for the sole fillets is coming along nicely. Soon I will epoxy down the last of the sole fiberglass.

I am coming close to the completion for the live well, bait well, and the cockpit drains.

The top picture is the drain for the bait well. The bottom two are of the cockpit drain.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:45 am
by Jeff
Casey, as always, really nice work!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:45 am Casey, as always, really nice work!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress with the drains.

I used a Rotozip with a router bit to get the height I wanted, about an 8th of an inch. Dad's idea. He always has good ideas.

Then I filled the void with epoxy. I will use thickened epoxy to angle down toward the drain from the wood.

The pic with the metal is the mount for the center console coming up through the sole.

The last pic is of the 30 holes I have drilled and and filled for the cooler brackets, and the small circular hatch that will allow me to access the sounder.

Next up will be a little more epoxy work, the epoxy around the cockpit drain, and then giving the sole a light sand in preparation for the glass.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Continuation of the drains is going great. One more to complete. Both drains for the live well and bait well turned out really nice. Once cured, I will add a pic of the drain tubes in place.

The rod tubes are glued in place. They worked great. Now the boat can hold switch rods without them being broken down.

I took a break to help Elise make some mittens out of an old dress she had. We had fun with that project, and just in time for winter.

I find the EZ-Fillet is easiest to mix by placing equal clumps on a 1/4 plywood board. I like this better than using measuring cups. Much faster and works really well.

Elise asked to get a picture of me, while I worked on the fillets.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:16 am
by Eric1
I'm with you on the Eze Fillet mixing. No measuring, Eye ball close and mix.
It's a bit harder with this second tub. The green is much more runny than last.
But it still works.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:56 am
by joe2700
Eric1 wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:16 am It's a bit harder with this second tub. The green is much more runny than last.
But it still works.
My newest batch of ez fillet also has a much more liquid green and a much more red ... red. It worked fine but they seemed to have changed something.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
These batches have been pretty dry. Probably the old stuff.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

So I am thinking through the radius for the bait well. You guys think that a 2 inch radius is enough for the bait fish not to get stuck in the corners? It's a decent size bait well. I would prefer to use what I have, which is a 4 inch drainage pipe I ripped. It looks good.

I recall on Steven's boat it has some 1/4 ply at a 45. I never did see the pics of Larry's, so not sure how much radius there is. Tom may be able to chime in. Other places I have been reading seem to not state much concern for the size of the radius, as long as there is some. One person even specifying that his oval tank performed poorly when compared to his more square tank with radius corners. Both on the same boat. The sloshing was less and he stated it seemed to be easier on the fish. I feel pretty confident, that something this size will allow the bait fish to never be stuck in the corner, and he will turn left or right and keep on swimming. Thoughts?

Here is a pic of the corner, along with a pic of the overflow drain pipe. My feed hose is I think 3/4" and the drain is 1.5". I really like how the drain has come together.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:27 pm
by Eric1
I think you're good to go! Build on!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:49 pm
by TomW1
I looked at my/Larry's OD18 and your fine.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:27 pm I think you're good to go! Build on!!
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:49 pm I looked at my/Larry's OD18 and your fine.

Tom
Thanks Tom!

Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I ordered a 72" Hiber-Net from Frabill. I'm looking forward to making a custom holder for it to rest above the drain in the cockpit, along the bulkhead. The deck will extend out over the bulkhead enough to keep it tucked back under the cockpit coaming and the bench seat, a few inches off the sole.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:36 pm
by OrangeQuest
Interesting net!
3998

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:13 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah it seems pretty handy.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:29 pm
by Fuzz
Learn something new every day :D Never seen one like that before, be interesting to see how it works out.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It seems relatively durable, hopefully I'll get 5 or so seasons out of it when the boat is up and running.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:17 am
by flyfishingmonk
And the glass on the sole is down, with the help of my best friend Jeff.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:31 am
by Eric1
Very nice job Casey! You too Jeff!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:06 am
by Jeff
Great work Casey & Jeff!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:07 pm
by TomW1
Congrats Casey and Jeff another step done. :D

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
Well when I was using the table saw for a workbench, which is something I know now to do, this is what happened.

Moisture got under the table cloth and tarp I had laid on top of the saw. We were mixing epoxy.

I am appreciative of the Rust Free product. I have used it for several years and finally ran out and had to buy more.

I also got a new miter gauge. Actually it is one I purchased for my dad years ago, and I asked him if I could have it back since he was not using it. Come to find out he had three or four of those things, various manufacturers. It's much more solid than the factory gauge.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving, for those of you here in the states.

Here is the progress from the last few weeks. It's all been on the rod holder location, the gunwale coming, and the creation of the gussets. I made four gussets to go in between bulkhead B and C, and C and D. You can hardly see them when they are in. See the second photo.

I am getting down to scraps, but fortunately found enough wood for the gussets and coming. After cutting them on the bandsaw, I hot glued them together so I could sand them to be the same. Then I gave them a rounder on the router, and will glass them into place with biaxial tape, which should make the rock solid.

I also took the kids on a camping trip, which was a lot of fun.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:37 am
by OrangeQuest
The build looks like it is coming along!

Looks like you guys had mild weather for camping!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:07 am
by Eric1
Boat is looking great!
Those camp pictures look like fun! Wish I was there!! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:36 am
by Jeff
Good stuff Casey!! Always good to see parents outside with the kids!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!

I hope to glass in the gussets, and the live well and bait well floors and corners this weekend.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Today more progress was made on the coaming. I plan to have a radius toward the bow and am working with 1/4 and cutting it to make the bend. Then I plan to reinforce it with another piece of 1/4 behind the outside bend. Here are a couple pics.After making the cut I sanded the ends sharp so they will lay flat against the coaming and the back of bulkhead B.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:32 am
by OrangeQuest
Looks good!

So many little cuts, bet that was time consuming! :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:32 am Looks good!

So many little cuts, bet that was time consuming! :)

Yeah it kind of is, and you always feel like you will take a chunk out of your thumb since you get to going back and forth so many times.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I decided to go ahead and tack the coaming into place with some 5 min epoxy, using it in small places to hold everything just perfect before I mix epoxy that will cure overnight.

I am using an 8 foot level to get things flat from the front of the boat to the back. It is working well. I also pulled a fishing line front to back to nail down the coaming height perfectly. I jacked up the nose of the boat a bit thinking I could tweak the sheer up and down a tad to get it level with the coaming, but the boat would not flex, not even 1/16 of an inch. It is rock solid. So I will have to take down a bit of the sheer to make it perfectly level with the coaming. No big deal. I picked up an electric plane awhile back assuming I would need to do this step. I plan to attach the plane to the 8 foot level to get a perfect height on the cut.

I am glad I ripped two 8 foot coaming strips a long time ago, or I might have had to order an extra sheet of plywood. So far the scraps laying around are all getting consumed at a rate that should keep me from having to purchase more plywood. I rounded the underside of the coaming with a 3/16 th router bit. Each gusset will rest up inside the coaming by 1/4 inch, to give a shadow line.

Here is the progress so far, with pics starting toward the back and coming forward. The coaming from bulkhead C to E is straight, then curves after bulkhead D toward the center of bulkhead B.

There is a pic of the router set up I use when putting an edge on a long piece of plywood.

The last pic if of a nice cup of tea my sweet daughter brought to me as I was typing up this post. =)

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:59 am
by glossieblack
Lovely precise work. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:59 am Lovely precise work. 8)
Thanks glossieblack!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Below is the picture of the coaming being tabbed to the bulkhead, using the 8 foot level to get the exact height. Instead of EZ-Fillet for little places like this, I like to use West Systems 404 mixed into the epoxy, because of how strong I believe it cures. The second pic is where I am using the 8 foot level to locate the position of the gussets, so they will be parallel with the bulkheads.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:08 am
by pee wee
It's plain to see you get pleasure from building to a high level of excellence, I'm enjoying watching and picking up tips. Nice progress!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:21 am
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys! It's a lot of fun to work on.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:58 am
by glossieblack
Nice work. :D How close are you to getting the decks on?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:58 am Nice work. :D How close are you to getting the decks on?
Thanks! I think I am still quite a ways. I have not worked on any of the cleats toward the stern, and there has been no fairing done on any of the boat since it has been flipped.

But things have been progressing well, so that is encouraging.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:34 am
by OrangeQuest
You do seem to be getting there!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:34 am You do seem to be getting there!
Yes, slowly but surely.

Here is an update on the gussets. The first two are tabbed into place. Today I plan to tab in the other two, and seal the rod holders in preparation for their installation.

The small piece of wood point straight up was to move the coaming just a bit to make it straight up and down.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:38 am
by Eric1
Really looks nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Eric1 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:38 am Really looks nice!
Thanks Eric!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The four gussets and two bulkheads, for the gunnel, are glassed to the coaming with 12 oz Biaxial. The two coaming strips, where the gunnels start at bulkhead B and end at D, are glassed to the bulkheads with the same.

Next up I plan to glass the four gussets to the hull with 6 oz tape set in place at a 30 to 45 degree, so all strands bridge the joint. Four pieces of glass per gusset. It should do the trick strength wise, and I have a lot of 6 oz laying around.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are crude Photoshop versions of the deck, one with a radius and one without. I did this to get a feel for what it would look like. Then the pics before I played around with Photoshop. I am going to use the radius corners, and will use the same radius I have on the poling platform so they are styled similar. In addition, I plan to install a small speaker in the radius so I can use all four speakers for the Lawrence Sonic Hub.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress with the coaming, and a pic of one of the lockers - the one that holds the two stroke oil and the fuel filter.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:38 am
by glossieblack
Phew! I thought I was the only one who produced fly-away-hair fibre glassing. :wink: :D

The build is looking great. :D

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks glossieblack!

It makes it so great to smack your hand down onto afterwords. Makes a person pay attention when getting in and out of the boat. :help:

I had a friend over to help and I showed him that if we fit it to the base of the coaming, it will be easy to cut perfect along the top, before it fully cures. As you probably know, works like a champ.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:47 am
by piperdown
Looking good! Love the attention to detail on your build :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am
by narfi
Yes, a box knife along that while it's still green works great.
Looking good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
I like how it ended up, and will reinforce it with mahogany wedges, thickened epoxy, fiberglass, and another strip of 1/4 inch ply.

My son insisted that he get a photo of me.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
narfi wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am Yes, a box knife along that while it's still green works great.
Looking good!
Thanks narfii! One day it will see the water.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:50 pm
by Salty F17
Its Coming out great

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Salty F17 wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:50 pm Its Coming out great
Thanks Salty!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:50 am
by Jeff
Really nice work Casey, always enjoy following your build!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:28 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:50 am Really nice work Casey, always enjoy following your build!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

I will be ordering more material soon so keep an eye out for that.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Update - The speaker boxes are coming along nicely.

I added the second quarter inch to the coaming radius. I am used scrap for the inside radius.

Next up are the cleats for the gussets.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are the cleats for the gussets. They look a lot like gussets. I decided to drop them down on one side to beef up the gusset since the gunnel will have some weight on it with anglers.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:47 pm
by Jeff
Casey, as always, beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:47 pm Casey, as always, beautiful work!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff, and I just placed an order for more supplies from Bateau.

Today I also ordered three more speakers for the boat, for a total of five speakers, and I ordered a cup holder to try out. If it works, I plan to order four more, one for each family member to keep a cool drink. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:54 am
by glossieblack
What a pleasure to follow this build. As bespoke as Cracker Larry's GF18 build for Rogerdog. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:54 am What a pleasure to follow this build. As bespoke as Cracker Larry's GF18 build for Rogerdog. :D
Thanks glossieblack!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Merry Christmas. In the spirit of the evening, I will share a verse. "She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” Matthew 1:21.

I hope everyone had a great celebration. I was able to get some work done on the boat the last few days. Here is the progress of the cleat work, the creation of a mounting bracket for the retractable landing net, and some speaker work.

The 2 x 4 is for prototyping the size, but the final will be made ouf of mahogany and ply, and will be the same design as the rod holders. You can see one of the rod holders in the picture with the table saw along with the three new pieces of wood that will become the holders for the net. The net will be installed along the back of the cockpit, on the outside of bulkhead D, just behind your legs when sitting down to drive the boat.

I took down the sheer to be level with the coaming using an electric hand plane. This is the only tool I own that really makes me nervous, and I have a lot of tools. That sucker will take some wood off in a hurry. It is mean. The boat is about 1/2 inch tall in the middle, and toward the stern and bow it levels out. So making it true in the middle of the hull is quick work with an electric hand plane. I do however find that I like the old fashioned hand plane for the final pass, if I did not hit it perfectly with the electric version. The old tools give you much more control. That and they look cool.

Next up are 8 more cleats that actually look like gussets, since I shaped them to give more strength for the gunnel. The small 3 inch speakers that will be toward the front of the cockpit came in - so one pic is of me messing around with the mounting hole, and backing plate. The hole saws nor the forester bits will work. The speakers take a 2 7/8th hole, so looks like I will need to pick one up. I tried the 3" and it is just too sloppy, and the mounting screws are too close to the hole.

For Christmas I got a new travel bag for fishing trips, so I am excited about that.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:51 am
by OrangeQuest
Really looking good Casey!

I bought my hole saw set at a really good price. I think there are 10 or 11 saws from 3/4" to 2" and I have already bought a few sizes that I don't have in that range. I hate getting one saw for a single hole, so it's justifiable if more than one hole is needed.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:08 am
by Jeff
Nice Casey!! Don't forget to tell us what Bilge Paint you want!! Happy Holidays, Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:51 am Really looking good Casey!

I bought my hole saw set at a really good price. I think there are 10 or 11 saws from 3/4" to 2" and I have already bought a few sizes that I don't have in that range. I hate getting one saw for a single hole, so it's justifiable if more than one hole is needed.
Yeah good call. I had this conversation just two days ago about purchasing another set, loaded with sizes of forester bits I don't have, that stretch from 2 1/4 to 3 1/8th. Boat building is the best for filling your garage with tons of tools. :D

Jeff wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:08 am Nice Casey!! Don't forget to tell us what Bilge Paint you want!! Happy Holidays, Jeff
Thanks Jeff, will do!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:19 pm
by Fuzz
Hey man happy birthday to you. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:27 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:19 pm Hey man happy birthday to you. :D
Hey thanks Fuzz!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is some progress. I am finally checking in on this and getting back to the build since before Christmas. Lots of travel (fam and business).

This weekend my brother-in-law came down from OK to hang out and help on the boat.

Below is a pic of the coolest 4 year old I know. He is getting really good at working the drill press.

We made good progress on the console and the gussets today, and I worked a little bit on the speakers. It took purchasing a 2 7/8 bit to get the right size for the speaker. We also worked on the coaming, specifically where the unique boards are with all the table saw cuts. We made things stronger with some additional thickened epoxy.

Over the break I spent some time with my mom and dad up in OK, and dad and I started thinking through the plans for the hatches.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:57 am
by glossieblack
Once again I am gobsmacked by the thoughtful detailed design and precise execution of this build. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:39 am
by OrangeQuest
What is crazy is you make it look so easy to do a 4 year old could do some of it! :lol:

That young man is going to have mad skills when he gets a little older.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:39 am What is crazy is you make it look so easy to do a 4 year old could do some of it! :lol:

That young man is going to have mad skills when he gets a little older.
He is learning a lot. Of the three littles the youngest has taken to the tools the most. Today he was spending time looking over the router table, and how it can make the bit go up and down. Of course it was unplugged and I was watching him. It was fun seeing his curiosity.

Yesterday he asked how the speaker wires worked, and was showing concern for us not having some way to get the wires out of where the speaker will be installed under the gunnel. So I told him that we would be drilling a hole for them to pass through. That somewhat satisfied his curiosity, but then led to another question of where exactly the wires would run.

I remember when he was three we were washing his hands in the powder bathroom after working on the boat. The exhaust fan was on. He looked up at the fan, then at the switch, and asked, "Are there wires behind the wall that run from the switch to the exhaust, that plug into the switch, and then into the fan, to make it turn on and off?" His little hand pointing to each part as he asked. But it was said with such confidence that he knew the answer before he asked. Super cute. :P
glossieblack wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:57 am Once again I am gobsmacked by the thoughtful detailed design and precise execution of this build. 8)
Thanks for the kind words!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 pm
by OrangeQuest
It is very impressive of the young one.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:55 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 pm It is very impressive of the young one.
Thanks!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress from this weekend. My brother-in-law helped.

The speaker boxes are coming along nicely. The speaker below is mounted under the gunnel and points down. This will keep it from getting wet. I will add a ring around the hole so the screws that mount the speaker in will have something to go into. The underside will be cleaned up and the glue made uniform, but you can see how the speaker will be hidden up inside. I think it will add some nice additional sound to the other three speakers (two on the sides of the console, and a subwoofer on the front of the console behind the cooler).

The picture of the glass is the underside of the steering column. We added glass under the curvature of the column to strengthening it, since it is made up of individual pieces of plywood.

The blue tape pic is on top of the gusset between the sheer and the coaming. I add tape to wet sections to keep us from accidentally sticking our arms in the wet epoxy. Then once it is hard it peels right off.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the locker progress. This is the center locker that will be under the bench seat. To the left and right are the baitwell and livewell.

The top pic of course has no epoxy. The bottom pic has epoxy and additional tape that is not seen in the top pic. I used biaxial in the corners and 6 oz on the floor and the joints of the floor.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:42 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:42 am Looking good!
Thanks!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Getting a shipment form Bateau is always like Christmas - looking at all the cool stuff.

I have found that the only gloves worth using are these orange ones. All the others seem to fail, but I find the orange ones can sometimes be used twice.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
Oh yeah the baitwell is glassed. Next up is the livewell. I also sealed the center locker.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:44 am
by Jeff
Nice Casey!! Glad your order arrived safely!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:52 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Jeff!

The livewell is glassed, and it went very well. Next up, I am moving toward the gutter system for the bench seat and three lockers at the back of the boat. I plan to use mahogany dimensional lumber for the gutters.

I also ordered a cup holder to see if I liked it. I did, so I am picking up two more for the boat.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:48 pm
by Jondavis
Hi!! First build I’ve seen that is actually still in progress and actually about the same stage I am at, although my boat is a lot less complex as yours (fs14-ls) plan on building this boat as soon as I’m done with my little flats boat they are very similar in shape so it will be like a big-little brother thing!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 pm
by Jondavis
I forgot to mention that your boat looks GREAT!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jondavis wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 pm I forgot to mention that your boat looks GREAT!
Hey nice boat! I like the picture. Cool lighting.

Yes, my build has been in progress for a long time. I take off with big gaps in-between the stages of building. Major life events, which are positive, happen along the way - kids, building houses, etc.

What is so fun is working on it, so I don't know what I will do when it is finished. I suppose I'll have to take up fishing! :)

Here is the progress of the gutters - a cross section and some dimensional lumber I am getting ready to rip for a very long gutter piece.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:14 am
by pee wee
Love the attention to detail, careful planning is paying off!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:16 am
by OrangeQuest
Nice! Looks like two hatches will share the same gutter? Very nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:40 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:14 am Love the attention to detail, careful planning is paying off!
Thanks Pee Wee,

Thinking through every detail is very fun.

It's nice dad knows AutoCad so well, because we get to test some measurements before I start chopping wood.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:44 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:16 am Nice! Looks like two hatches will share the same gutter? Very nice!
Thanks OrangeQuest,

Yes, the livewell will share a gutter with the center hatch on one side, and the baitwell will share a gutter with the center hatch on the other. Each will have a cushion on top to create the bench seat.

The gutters drip into the sole, so thankfully no hoses. The only gutter that will drip into a hose will be the anchor gutter. The back three will drain over the side.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm
by Rtorres2411
I’ve been following your build and it’s very impressive the work you are doing.
What type of wood are you using for the dimensional lumber?


Ruben

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Rtorres2411 wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm I’ve been following your build and it’s very impressive the work you are doing.
What type of wood are you using for the dimensional lumber?


Ruben
Thanks Ruben and cool name!

I use Mahogany for all of the dimensional lumber (cleats, reinforcing, gutters, etc). Usually it is Honduras or Philippine or maybe another version, whichever is in stock at the wood shop. I always go of course with the one that is the straightest, regardless of species.

I have read up on some of the differences for Mahogany species, and that some are really not Mahogany, but did not find them to vary enough to worry about, since it is all getting encased in epoxy and then painted. I have found that when cutting or shaping with the router for example, all of the various kinds of Mahogany are just great to work with.

I am imagine there are other solutions for dimensional lumber that are less expensive, that will work great. I am not familiar with what they are, but someone on here will know. Lots of talent on this forum.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:33 pm
by cvincent
Nice work Casey! I like the way you set up your speaker boxes.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:33 pm Nice work Casey! I like the way you set up your speaker boxes.
Thanks cvincent!

They were a lot of fun to think through and work on.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 pm
Rtorres2411 wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm I’ve been following your build and it’s very impressive the work you are doing.
What type of wood are you using for the dimensional lumber?


Ruben
Thanks Ruben and cool name!

I use Mahogany for all of the dimensional lumber (cleats, reinforcing, gutters, etc). Usually it is Honduras or Philippine or maybe another version, whichever is in stock at the wood shop. I always go of course with the one that is the straightest, regardless of species.

I have read up on some of the differences for Mahogany species, and that some are really not Mahogany, but did not find them to vary enough to worry about, since it is all getting encased in epoxy and then painted. I have found that when cutting or shaping with router for example, all of the various kinds are just great to work with.

I am imagine there are other solutions for dimensional lumber that are less expensive, that will work great. I am not familiar with what they are, but someone on here will know. Lots of talent in this forum.

Casey
Ruben,

I checked to see what Eric was using on his boat, and it's pine for his cleats. I thought that was the wood getting used elsewhere, but thought I would double check.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:34 pm
by Rtorres2411
Thank you Casey, I have searched in central Florida for mahagony but had no luck so far. It is easy to find pine, fir and cherry. I would like to use the best I could get, but as you say it gets encapsulated in epoxy anyways.
Build on my friend, I'm really enjoying seeing your art work.

Ruben

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Rtorres2411 wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:34 pm Thank you Casey, I have searched in central Florida for mahagony but had no luck so far. It is easy to find pine, fir and cherry. I would like to use the best I could get, but as you say it gets encapsulated in epoxy anyways.
Build on my friend, I'm really enjoying seeing your art work.

Ruben
I have had to take a road trip from Dallas to Austin just to find the necessary wood. Fortunately there is a Woodcraft in OKC, and one here in Dallas, as well as a Rockler, that both carry dimensional lumber. So that does help.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress. Here are some pics of the beginning stages of the gutters.

One piece of Mahogany was too cumbersome to cut alone, so Summer came out and helped. And then she came out again to check on the progress. She has been so nice to always let me use every square inch of the garage for projects. I just love her. =)

I had to work on getting the lumber flat on one side to true up both sides on the table saw, since I sold my jointer to make room for the boat build. I used four feather boards on the table saw to hold the lumber in place. I rarely use them on the table saw, typically only on the router. But I figured it would make it safer for Summer to not have to keep the board steady.

You can see in the photo how the gutters will overhang onto the sole, and the water will drip down into the sole. The coaming edge will actually be four inches out from bulkhead D, and underneath the coaming will hang a net, in a similar fashion to the rod holders. The center two lumber pieces will be a gutter that will work for two hatches at the same time. This will also be where the poling tower will mount into the deck. You can see the tower legs in the picture.

The long piece going from side to side will all be installed as one piece, and will serve as three gutters for the three bench seats.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:59 pm
by Bogieman
:D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:47 pm
by Jeff
Nice!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Bogieman and Jeff!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been working on the gutters, and testing the AutoCAD dimensions against the dimensional lumber - refining the measurements for the gasket I plan to use.

Here are a couple Sharpie market mockups. I really like how they are coming together. I may round nose the gutter, with a Whiteside 1406B 3/4 since 11/16 is odd. And it gives me an excuse to buy a new router bit. :D

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:27 am
by glossieblack
Casey, you sculpt wood, with precision. It's just lovely to follow. 8)

Lacking your wood working skills, as my Skinnydip post of today will show, I have to sculpt goo from a bucket, then fair, then more goo, then fair, etc, etc.

Different paths up the same mountain - building a boat. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:27 am Casey, you sculpt wood, with precision. It's just lovely to follow. 8)

Lacking your wood working skills, as my Skinnydip post of today will show, I have to sculpt goo from a bucket, then fair, then more goo, then fair, etc, etc.

Different paths up the same mountain - building a boat. :D
Thanks for such kind words! Yes, same mountain. Hopefully mountain of big fish!

I recall my dad saying to me, when I first started working on a bandsaw at around the age of 10, "That we really don't do woodworking. We do wood machining." That always stuck with me. So I always try to think through the projects with an eye for machining, and if I am lucky to get to use an old school gouge or hand plane, then even better.

Eventually the dust created by the woodworking over the years got to be such an annoyance to mom, that he shifted gears to restoring old cars, making both of them very happy. No dust, and she gets to cruise around in some awesome cars. Now he has managed to restore a 1930 Franklin, a 76 XKE, and is putting the finishing touches on a 1930 Cadillac Roadster. After the boat we hope to work on a car project together, as I will probably avoid the wood working (machining) for a season to teach the kids about auto mechanics. I get to help him on the projects when I see him in OKC. It's a lot of fun.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Two of the littles and myself, we did not make it to church this morning since one of them picked up a stomach bug. Poor thing.

So after getting her all settled with something to eat and a TV show, I made some progress on the gutters. So far so good.

The 1/4 inch groove cut along the length of the board is for the panel that separates the livewell from the center locker, and the other gutter rests on top of the baitwell and the other side of the center locker.

The larger round-over is so bags and fish heads don't bop a hard 90 degree corner when being lifted out of the lockers.

The round-over and groove stop at certain locations where they will meet up with other board, hang over into the sole, etc. That is why they don't run the length of the board. The marks on the boards at this point are just old brainstorming marks left on the lumbar, so they don't line up with the cuts.

I like how they are coming along.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
More progress from the weekend. It was cut short because we went up north to escape city lights and watch the eclipse. Very amazing sight to see in an area with few lights.

Dado cuts for the gutters. Then some shots of the cuts on the dimensional lumbar. The sun was setting so it made a cool effect.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
I have interviewed a few people in my life time that tell me that with the right tools they can do just about anything. I always try to tell them that just having the tools do not mean you can do something, you also need to know how to use them. You sir know how to use them.

It is great that you are teaching your kids how to use their hands and minds to make things too. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:05 pm I have interviewed a few people in my life time that tell me that with the right tools they can do just about anything. I always try to tell them that just having the tools do not mean you can do something, you also need to know how to use them. You sir know how to use them.

It is great that you are teaching your kids how to use their hands and minds to make things too. :wink:
Thanks! The tool aspect is a lot of fun to research and practice with, testing different things until you find what works. I appreciate the kind words!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:56 am
by flyfishingmonk
To locate the stiffeners and gutter placement I had to get the poling platform up on the boat. This required getting out the deck, and the shallow water anchors to position the poling platform. I also set up the helm to help aid in the coaming and cushion placement, checking it against the AutoCad drawings.

My 5 year old decided to Silly String the boat. He actually turned 5 today and the Silly String was a gift. He gave it right back. He gave some to the living room, the hallway, the kitchen...

My daughter figured out that if she takes her brother's new balloons that they can be pulled under the spoiler of his Hot Wheels and used to make them race when being deflated. Pretty impressive. The center island works quite well for this by the way.

A furniture clamp works well for holding a saw blade for loosening. I have done it this way a long time and it makes tightening easier. I use a stick jammed in the teeth, down from the top, to hold the bland to loosen.

I used my shoes to get a feel for the space allowed for an angler, that will be behind the bench seat and adjacent to the poling platform.

The poling platform is 48" tall. Elise is a little shorter than that. Here she is with the left side of her mouth full of her brother's birthday gum. About 1/2 of it she stole.

One of the long boards had a funny crack in it, so I used another one and plan to cut out the crack and use the lumber on the back most gutters. I checked it for level and cut off the very end that had a small warp.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:02 am
by flyfishingmonk
The gutters continue. After thinking through the bench seat depth and the fishing areas adjacent to the poling platform, talking with my dad over the phone, him on his AutoCad and me with the boat, we zeroed in on the bench seat depth that seems to work well.

My challenge was having the three cushions somewhat hide the gutter line since the cushions will be right on top of the hatches. So that means reducing the size of the openings to the locker and wells just a tad. They are still plenty big.

Of course the gutters act as the bracing for the seats, and you will see the outer most gutters extend along the same path as the coaming, and will extend through bulkheads D through E and sung up against the transom. This will further strengthening the transom and the area where an angler will stand.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:48 am
by glossieblack
Very nice. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:01 am
by Jeff
Agree, very nicely done!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:51 am
by Bogieman
Yessssss! What everyone else is saying. You sir, are a craftsman :D She is going to be beautiful.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Bogieman wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:51 am Yessssss! What everyone else is saying. You sir, are a craftsman :D She is going to be beautiful.
Jeff wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:01 am Agree, very nicely done!! Jeff
glossieblack wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:48 am Very nice. 8)
Thanks everyone! The boat is coaming along well these last 12 months.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:04 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nicely done. :)

The thin slots were to clearance for the boards to fit over the frames and stringers with the round overs so the fish don't get hung up on a square edge? So you still need to cut out for the gutters?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:04 am Very nicely done. :)

The thin slots were to clearance for the boards to fit over the frames and stringers with the round overs so the fish don't get hung up on a square edge? So you still need to cut out for the gutters?
Thanks OrangeQuest. That is correct. The small slot is where it will rest on top of the dividers for the wells, and the gutter has yet to be routed. I figure the large round over is a nice touch, to it is easier to get stuff out of it (big redfish, tackle bags, etc).

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:40 am
by OrangeQuest
The round over is a nice touch and it gives it a very professional touch that a true craftsman would add. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks OrangeQuest!

Here is a pic of the bit. It's a big bit. Fortunately the router can turn it, and I don't have to have shaper. Little room for a shaper.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
The first gutter rail is in place. Not sure quite what to call it. So I suppose gutter rail works. The gutter is not cut yet. I'll do that later.

The measurements came out well, and the added round corners that I put in the bait well are not interfering with the gutter rail. I used a level to get the exact location of the cuts.

The notch is where the other board will run along the back side of the hatches for the gutter. One board for all three gutters.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:46 am
by OrangeQuest
The rounded corners are really a nice touch. It's something that a lot of builders won't think to do and even less people will notice it once finished. :)

I am guessing this is still in the test fit stages and the rails will be making another trip to the table saw to get the gutters cut? I like the way you show how you set your machinery up and then show the results with a finished piece. Makes it a lot easier to understand what you are doing.

That bit is big! Does it come with it's own box to store it in? :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hi OrangeQuest,

Thanks!

And correct about the next trip to the table saw. I actually may cut the gutters with a router once they are all glued down and in place. I am thinking to make the deck cutouts first, then use the deck as a template, and cut the gutters with a template bit. So they are perfectly aligned.

As for the router bit, it gets its own room in the house for storage, caution tape on the door, orange cones, the works. Then guests and family members to bust a hip on it.

Actually just a cheap plastic bag.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:27 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Very nice looking work Casey.
I’ve been enjoying watching your hatch progress.
Great you are getting the children involved. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:48 am
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:27 pm Very nice looking work Casey.
I’ve been enjoying watching your hatch progress.
Great you are getting the children involved. 8)
Thanks Aripeka!

The kids and I have a lot of fun together. I can't wait for them to be out on the water.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the latest. The rails for the gutters are working out well.

Tonight I fit into place two more rails for the outside of the bench seats. You will see that two of them extend to the transom, supporting where a person will stand and fish. They also serve as one side of the gutters for the two corner lockers. The back two lockers toward the corners adjacent to the transom will not have a very large hatches, because the space is limited and the electronics and other items that install in those compartments will easily fit through the openings. I may also toss a couple fenders back there along with some dock rope.

The very last picture is the board that is next up to be dado cut.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
Some more progress...

One more rail has been dry fit into place. I opened up the gap between the cuts some to make room for thickened epoxy.

The shot of the oil container is looking down through a hatch that I am working on finding the right size for. Something not too big, but big enough for the oil tank to pass through. Also giving enough room to bleed off the water out of the fuel filter.

Then a pic of several cleats.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
The little guy really wanted to try the Dremel Tool, so we had some fun trying out different attachments. And how to trace a board to length. We also made some good progress on the gutter rails. The new bit is the one I am going to test out for cutting the gutter, using my plunge router to drop down to the right height. It will take more than one pass to cut.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:42 pm
by glossieblack
Teaching your boy, teaching us. Thanks. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:42 pm Teaching your boy, teaching us. Thanks. :D
Thanks! It's loads of fun to work on this project and post the progress.

Today I tackled a little metal working, and did a bit of epoxy.

The metal was for the jacked up Bob's Jack Plate. New out of the box the mount for the pump was plastic, and broken. So instead of messing with them sending me another plastic one, I made a new one out of 1/4 inch thick aluminum. It came together well. All that remains is cutting off the excess metal, Installing the solenoids back on, and adding a small terminal for some of the wires that originally bolted together with one of the solenoid mounting bolts.

The wood contraption on the table saw is the first of the three rails being epoxied together. I made sure the table saw was nice and level, and used a carpenter square to make the rails true. Next up I will add additional pieces onto this assembly. It will get pretty big before it gets epoxied into the boat, and all but the bilge locker will be connected. I am excited as my dad comes to visit soon. Apparently, according to my wife Summer, when he comes to town we would never eat if it was not for her, all we would do is work 14 hours a day on the boat. She will be out of town this go around, and my mom wont be with us this time either, so I guess it's pizza delivery, if we even eat at all. :D

I went today on a daddy-daughter date. I was hoping that the Rockler store would have 2" thick mahogany, but they only carried 1 3/4, so I will have to hit up another store to get the last of the dimensional wood for the few remaining gutter rails. This was one of our stops. At the Rockler store, my little girl picked out a nice kid size tool box equipped with her first 5 tools - complete with goggles. Now she wants a small work bench so she can start building projects of her own. Maybe we have a future boat builder in our midst.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
Progress continues. Two more rails have been epoxied to the rail and gutter assembly. The rigging tube, steering hydraulic cables, fuel line and some other odds and ends arrived last week as well.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:05 am
by OrangeQuest
Sorry I missed your latest pictures of the young lady's toolbox and tools. That is great she it taking up building things.

Your rails are looking very good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:05 am Sorry I missed your latest pictures of the young lady's toolbox and tools. That is great she it taking up building things.

Your rails are looking very good!
Thanks! Yes I am pleased with how they are coming along. Slowly but surely.

I think I will pick her up a little bird house kit. She would love that.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:22 am
by Jeff
Nice Casey!! Great to see her at work with Dad!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:09 am
by cvincent
You are doing a excellent job with the build. It is nice to see that your kids are involved.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:01 pm
by OrangeQuest
flyfishingmonk wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 am Thanks! Yes I am pleased with how they are coming along. Slowly but surely.

I think I will pick her up a little bird house kit. She would love that.

Casey
It was a sad day for me when my daughter told me that any new toys needing to be assembled to leave it in the box and she would do it. :(

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:32 am
by TomW1
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:01 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 am Thanks! Yes I am pleased with how they are coming along. Slowly but surely.

I think I will pick her up a little bird house kit. She would love that.

Casey
It was a sad day for me when my daughter told me that any new toys needing to be assembled to leave it in the box and she would do it. :(
I remember when I told my Dad that. All he did was clean off a spot on his workbench and said go at it. :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:44 am
by OrangeQuest
Back then it was the start of my kid not needing me anymore. And she broke the guy code of just looking at the pictures. :lol: She was like 2 or 3 and couldn't read yet! :cry:

Don't even get me started on her "but why?" years, let's just say because I said so was not enough. She is a very independent woman now.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest, Tom, and cvincent,

Yeah the kids grow up too fast! I they helped me with some tracing for the deck pieces. I'll post pieces. Areas that only a child would fit.
cvincent wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:09 am You are doing a excellent job with the build. It is nice to see that your kids are involved.
cvincent and Jeff - thanks for the compliments!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:19 am
by flyfishingmonk
My dad and I are making a lot of progress this weekend, and we made A LOT of sawdust this weekend cutting and shaping wood.

The kids helped trace the underside of the deck. Progress is happening with the rigging tube and the steering hoses too. This is where we are working with some custom cuts to save on epoxy and prepare for the rigging parts.

Today we hope to epoxy the rail system together into tow large pieces that can be removed for the finish work in the hatches. One of them is the bilge area, and the other assembly connects all the other rails into one large piece.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the rail system. I took apart one section before it cured, the bilge hatch in the center, to epoxy it again. I did not feel it was square enough. Everything else came together very well. The slanted piece is for the rigging tube and steering hoses.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:54 am
by BassMunn
Nice work Flyfishingmonk! I love how custom each build is, with each owners unique inputs and ideas.
Getting to build a boat with your dad and your kids.....priceless :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BassMunn wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:54 am Nice work Flyfishingmonk! I love how custom each build is, with each owners unique inputs and ideas.
Getting to build a boat with your dad and your kids.....priceless :wink:
Thanks BassMunn. Yes it is great getting to hang out with them. Making some good memories for sure.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:24 pm
by glossieblack
Very nice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:55 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:24 pm Very nice.
Thanks!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the rails. I have been rounding over the underside of the rails. Mainly so when I pull stuff out of the lockers, or the bait well and live well, it comes out easily and does not get caught on the 90 degree wood. I suppose a second benefit is reduced weight, but I can't imagine it reduces it by much. Where the rails epoxy to the bulkheads, I left some stock for surface adhesion. I used the sander to clean up the epoxy overflow from when I assembled the rails, before I messed with the router work. I am using a 3/4 inch round over. It barely fits in this router. I almost had to bust out the 3 1/4 hp, but I like this standard size router for general work.

Let's be honest, I just like making sawdust. :D

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:59 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nice work!! Like I stated before most of us would not bother with the underside as much but the reason makes sense and it just adds that little something that a craftsman would add. I can just see myself pulling something out and it hangs on my unfinished rails then I think of your work! :lol:

The boat is going to look beautiful.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:37 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:59 am Very nice work!! Like I stated before most of us would not bother with the underside as much but the reason makes sense and it just adds that little something that a craftsman would add. I can just see myself pulling something out and it hangs on my unfinished rails then I think of your work! :lol:

The boat is going to look beautiful.
Hey thanks! Yes, hopefully the extra round over comes in handy some day, especially with so many modern bags being somewhat large and made of fabrics. Fabric seems to catch on things more, straps and such.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:50 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a few pics of the reinforcing lumber for the four legs of the poling platform. The area where the clamps are show where I am making the rails thicker. The last pic is where the rail meets the transom. I stopped the router just sho of the end of the board when doing the round over to increase the surface area. Not really necessary but easy to stop short.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:57 pm
by glossieblack
Stout as .... :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:57 pm Stout as .... :D
Yeah hopefully it will work. :)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:43 am
by flyfishingmonk
The extra wood added for the poling platform mounts looks good after the epoxy cured. I used clamps to hold the pieces of wood level, since they kept sliding down with gravity.

I finished the epoxy for the bilge hatch rail and gutter. I did this one twice. The first time it was not square so I dissembled it before it cured, and did the epoxy a second time. What I learned is on a 4 sided hatch, only glue three at once to make it square, then come back and epoxy on the 4th piece. It was 100 times easier to get it square doing it in two stages.

I then started working with the sizing of the front hatch, making it just big enough to slide a fuel tank in and out of it, so if I need to access a tank I can remove it from the boat.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:30 am
by flyfishingmonk
I worked on finishing up the routing on the underside of the gutter rails, and began to work on the gutters for the locker hatch. My son and I have been discussing what size to make the hatch.

This top pic is of the bilge gutter rails. In this pic you can see that the rails are also acting as the cleat adjacent to the bulkhead and stringer. Those pics that follow are of the front hatch, using tape to lay out the size. The other areas under the deck hold the fuel tanks and the life jackets, so they do not get a top hatch.

It is amazing now matter how often you clean the boat and the garage, it quickly becomes trashed again.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:51 am
by glossieblack
Nice progress Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:45 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nice work!
Really like the picture of the whole boat!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:16 am
by Jeff
Nice Casey!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:54 pm
by BB Sig
I always look forward to the pictures from your build. Looks great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
BB Sig wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:54 pm I always look forward to the pictures from your build. Looks great!
Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:16 am Nice Casey!!! Jeff
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:45 am Very nice work!
Really like the picture of the whole boat!
glossieblack wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:51 am Nice progress Casey. :D
Thanks everyone! Hopefully I can post more pics tonight.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
So the last board I am using is warped. I have been cutting out the warps along the way. You can see the warp in the picture below, of it in my wife's SUV. It was a very long board and was the best of the three at the store.

So when I have a board that is warped I really work on all four sides of the board cutting out the warp that is in each direction. Or somehow working with he warp. For example, I found the warps to be very helpful when cutting out the cleats, and I left the warps to better fit against the fiberglass that was raised up off the wood stringers and bulkheads.

However, warps here are no bueno. This board warped both up and down and side to side. So I make several passes, and sometimes freehand the board on the saw to eliminate the warp - which I know is not best but it works. I have pics of both my dad and I free handing the big Powermatic but I figure it is best not to post so as not to encourage other boat builders to freehand. 8O

The warp caused a problem when I was ripping the last two rails out of the last section of the board. The warp immediately pinched the saw blade, heated it up so much that it began to flop around like a piece of American Cheese, and ate up the sides of the table saw's throat plate in four places. I hit the stop on the saw and walked around the corner to get out of the way of potential kick back.

When the saw slowed down, I was looking at a blade with about a 3/8th bend in it, apparently on the top and bottom, since all four sides of the throat plate were damaged. I thought well that blade is shot. It looked like someone had taken a clamp and bent if over. I immediately unplugged the saw and pulled off the blade to put a on a spare. I had more boards to cut, this was not going to slow me down. It was on tight and was hot so I worked fast and set it down on the flat surface of the table saw to snap a picture, and even though maybe I can straighten this thing somehow.

Right before my eyes the blade cooled and flattened back out. It was like the spoon in the movie the Matrix. I guess the steel preferred to be flat. The blade straightened so fast I was not able to get a pic, but I have pics of the chewed up board, and the damaged throat plate. You can also see where the saw cut is narrow from the warp.

Because of the warp it was pinching the blade so much I had to make a portion of the cut, turn off the saw, pull out the wood, cut again, turn off the saw, pull out the wood, and on the third pass it cut through. The rails were fine because I was cutting out each rail from 1/2 of the ripped board, and had given myself about an extra 3/8ths of stock to rip back off of each rail to make the true.

One photo is of the thin shavings I ripped off to make the rails square, and the last two are of the rails in place as I tinker with the size of the hatch - making sure to make it big enough for the tank to pass through. Progress, progress, progress.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
The progress for the anchor locker hatch continues.

To get the same angle I epoxied the rails next to one another on my table saw, but kept the separated with masking tape. The excess epoxy went to top off a couple of cleats on the gussets.

I also picked up two bags for the center console - one for the binoculars, a bullhorn, and a spot light, etc. The other smaller bag is for a first aid kit.

I was running low on lumbar so I picked up two more 3/4 boards for the front and back rail for the locker hatch.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:23 am
by OrangeQuest
Really like the grain of the wood and your joints there!

How will the bags be attached or will they just be in a compartment?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:41 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:23 am Really like the grain of the wood and your joints there!

How will the bags be attached or will they just be in a compartment?
Hey thanks. Yeah I was thinking, its such a shame to paint over all this nice wood.

I was considering having them hang but still rest flat, if that makes sense, to keep them form jostling around. Not quite sure yet...

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I made a few more cuts to the rails. I will be using this 3/4 for the front and back rail, taking advantage of the length of the board epoxied vertically into place to give some additional support.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
The front of the locker hatch is working out well. I used the 3/4 to span all the way across the tip of the bow for support, and built up the remaining of the rail with dado cut mahogany.

My brother-in-law worked on the cut out for the subwoofer, and then sealed the center console.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:41 am
by OrangeQuest
Everything is looking really good Casey!

I am a little concerned of having an electrical device so close to the fuel tank and in the same compartment. Hopefully the electrical device is “ignition protected”.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:41 am Everything is looking really good Casey!

I am a little concerned of having an electrical device so close to the fuel tank and in the same compartment. Hopefully the electrical device is “ignition protected”.
Good thought. The fuel tanks actually go in their own compartments behind bulkhead A. I am just making sure I can access them through the front hatch in case need to ever remove one.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:17 pm
by OrangeQuest
Oh, Ok. I see it moved back now. Sorry! :oops: Hope if you see something you think it "ain't right" you would bring it to my attention on my build. I was still asleep this morning.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:17 pm Oh, Ok. I see it moved back now. Sorry! :oops: Hope if you see something you think it "ain't right" you would bring it to my attention on my build. I was still asleep this morning.
Absolutely! That is hopefully what we all do for one another. I'll find a pic of the fuel tank layout and will share it. Hopefully it will all work out.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:31 pm
by flyfishingmonk
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:45 pm
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:17 pm Oh, Ok. I see it moved back now. Sorry! :oops: Hope if you see something you think it "ain't right" you would bring it to my attention on my build. I was still asleep this morning.
Absolutely! That is hopefully what we all do for one another. I'll find a pic of the fuel tank layout and will share it. Hopefully it will all work out.

Casey


OrangeQuest - Here you can see where they will go, between bulkhead A and B. They will also have panels separating them from the center locker that will hold the life jackets. Batteries are in the front locker.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:08 pm
by OrangeQuest
Oh, ok, Thanks Casey! I see your young engineer is giving it a good inspection too! Hope he sign off on them. :wink: :lol:

I love working with kids, I have more fun I think than they do but it's part of my job! 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:08 pm Oh, ok, Thanks Casey! I see your young engineer is giving it a good inspection too! Hope he sign off on them. :wink: :lol:

I love working with kids, I have more fun I think than they do but it's part of my job! 8)
That is cool you get to work with kids!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:41 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I worked on the holders for the fishing net. My son was a big help on these, as it took a third hand to manage the drilling the drill press. I would hold the contraption, and he would crank down on the drill press handle. He is really learning how to use that tool, and what pressure to apply when drilling.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:52 pm
by Jaysen
You need a bigger fostner bit

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:09 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jaysen wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:52 pm You need a bigger fostner bit
Yeah right! The 3 inch was just a tad too big, and the 2 7/8ths allowed for the speaker to fit better, leaving room for the screws to go into the wood. Actually the screws will go into epoxy plugs but you know what I mean - something for them to bite into without being too close to the inside of the ring.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:16 pm
by Jaysen
Why not just cut out a 3.25” hole fill it with epoxy? You could count out a 2.75” plug to red use the epoxy use... a little glass on the backside to make the epoxy ring a bit less likely to drop in.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jaysen wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:16 pm Why not just cut out a 3.25” hole fill it with epoxy? You could count out a 2.75” plug to red use the epoxy use... a little glass on the backside to make the epoxy ring a bit less likely to drop in.
Where were you a week ago?!?!? :D :x :lol:

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm
by Jaysen
Sulking about lack of mini-boat building options.

I’m like that. Day late and a couple screw loose from a full dozen (if your going to mix metaphors mix them like a batch of epoxy!).

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:33 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jaysen wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm Sulking about lack of mini-boat building options.

I’m like that. Day late and a couple screw loose from a full dozen (if your going to mix metaphors mix them like a batch of epoxy!).
Ha!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:14 am
by flyfishingmonk
A little more progress. During the work week it is a bit more challenging to break away. The hooks for the net continue.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:23 am
by Fuzz
You sure do some pretty work there Casey.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:23 am You sure do some pretty work there Casey.
Thanks Fuzz!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:41 pm
by TomW1
Casey your boat work is beautiful as always. Have you even had a chance to go fly fishing between it the family and your jobs. :D I know how much you like to be out on the water. Just keep reading the book I sent you on catching trout up here in the mountains as a dream trip, someday. :) :)

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:41 pm Casey your boat work is beautiful as always. Have you even had a chance to go fly fishing between it the family and your jobs. :D I know how much you like to be out on the water. Just keep reading the book I sent you on catching trout up here in the mountains as a dream trip, someday. :) :)

Tom
Thanks Tom! The time on the water has been less for sure. I did get to catch some nice pike last Summer, but that was about it. Hopefully this year I can spend more time on the water. Would love to fish up there sometime. It looks great up that direction!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:36 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are the net holder hooks. I am running out of things to make out of wood for this boat, and and to transition over to epoxy and fiberglass. I kind of like the epoxy and fiberglass work, but not near as much as I like the wood working part. I keep looking around the garage for more things to build. I guess it is time to start mixing. I also worked on the oversized mounting holes for the battery charger. I will fill them with thickened epoxy.

The kids are loving working the Dremel tool to make a slingshot out of a branch. The last pic is of a little boat Elise has been making out of scrap. This is the second one. I looked up and she had the first one ready to glue up, clamped down to a board and everything.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:23 am
by TomW1
Looking good Casey my friend. Those helpers just keep getting bigger from when we started corresponding. :D

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:39 am
by OrangeQuest
Everything is looking good! Love the kids having an interest in the wood working.

Seems you need more tools for them! :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:43 am
by glossieblack
Lovely wood working. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:22 am
by Jeff
flyfishingmonk, beautiful work!! Glad to see the kids very involved in helping dad!!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:25 am
by BB Sig
Beautiful build and family. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:06 pm
by cvincent
Looking good! The net holders are very nice.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks everybody! I appreciate the compliments. :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:11 am
by flyfishingmonk
I have been too busy to do any real work on the boat, but I did work on the anchor box a little.

It was a bit too tall so I took an inch off the top. Hopefully I can dive back into the project this weekend.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:12 am
by wegcagle
Fantastic work Casey! Glad to see that you’re passing on those wood mastery skills. Lucky kids!

Will

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
wegcagle wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:12 am Fantastic work Casey! Glad to see that you’re passing on those wood mastery skills. Lucky kids!

Will
Thanks Will! Hopefully they pick it all up and then surpass me.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Progress on the center console. The base and the two interior pieces were epoxied into place. One side now has glass. My brother-in-law visited to help.

We also sealed the rod holders, and worked a little on the front hatch gutter rail.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:52 pm
by OrangeQuest
All that work looks really good. You sure you want to put all them nice looking pieces of wood on a boat? :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:25 pm
by cvincent
You made a very smart decision by designing hatch access on the backside of the console. I had lots of fun installing my Yamaha binnacle remote with only access through the front of the console.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:57 pm
by MarkOrge
Beautiful woodwork Casey. Your boat is a work of art.

I just responded to your query re HP.

As a Project / Health and Safety Manager for Johnson Controls, glad to see everyone is wearing their PPE !

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:36 am
by TomW1
MarkOrge wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:57 pm Beautiful woodwork Casey. Your boat is a work of art.

I just responded to your query re HP.

As a Project / Health and Safety Manager for Johnson Controls, glad to see everyone is wearing their PPE !
Casey did I miss your question on motors and HP.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:45 am
by OrangeQuest
Have not seen any updates lately, last post you mentioned you were getting busy. Hope all is well.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
cvincent wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:25 pm You made a very smart decision by designing hatch access on the backside of the console. I had lots of fun installing my Yamaha binnacle remote with only access through the front of the console.
Thanks! With all the stuff I am bolting on this boat I figured it would be wise.
MarkOrge wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:57 pm Beautiful woodwork Casey. Your boat is a work of art.

I just responded to your query re HP.

As a Project / Health and Safety Manager for Johnson Controls, glad to see everyone is wearing their PPE !
Got it. Thanks! I just asked another regarding the fire extinguisher.
TomW1 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:36 am
MarkOrge wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:57 pm Beautiful woodwork Casey. Your boat is a work of art.

I just responded to your query re HP.

As a Project / Health and Safety Manager for Johnson Controls, glad to see everyone is wearing their PPE !
Casey did I miss your question on motors and HP.

Tom
I could not remember what size motor Mark had on his boat. I am planning on the 115 HO.
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:52 pm All that work looks really good. You sure you want to put all them nice looking pieces of wood on a boat? :D
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:45 am Have not seen any updates lately, last post you mentioned you were getting busy. Hope all is well.
Thanks!

Yes it has been very very busy. For me March and April are quite busy with work, tax season, helping people with investments, etc.

Finally I hope to get some time back on the boat.

Casey


Here is one update of some glass my brother in law and I put on the console - specifically the cut out where the speaker goes.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:29 pm
by Jwhitakeriii
Can't wait to see this thing finished. Good job!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jwhitakeriii wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:29 pm Can't wait to see this thing finished. Good job!
Hey thanks! I am looking forward to it being on the water.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:59 am
by OrangeQuest
Ahhh, nice to see you getting a little free time! It would be nice seeing that beautiful boat on the water but have missed seeing your craftsmanship in action.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:59 am Ahhh, nice to see you getting a little free time! It would be nice seeing that beautiful boat on the water but have missed seeing your craftsmanship in action.
Thanks OrangeQuest!

Here is today's progress. I got the first three rod holders epoxied into position. The tolerances of these things are within 1/8th to 1/2 inch in each direction. The back rod holder is for a switch rod, with the one I am eyeing having a 4 3/4 butt section, so I made the tolerance 5 1/4. It had to hang low enough not to hit the gusset. The lowest rod holder had to be high enough so the bottom of the reel was not rubbing on the floor, and the middle one had to split the difference top to bottom and allow a person to take the rod off the holder without them bumping the rod above. Then they are all three angled downward a tad toward the three holes in bulkhead B. It took a few hours to dial in but I think I have it right where I want it.

Next up will be the other three, and then the three I made to hold the net.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 12:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
With all 6 rod holders now epoxied into place I am proceeding with sanding all the lockers. I then plan to seal all the dry hatches with two coats of epoxy and the live well and bait well with three, before I do any fairing on the inside of the lockers. I should not have to fair much because the area of each locker that is seen should not be all that bad to fair out. They look pretty nice and flat already.

Once the fairing is complete I plan for one more coat to seal the fairing compound, then the rails to be epoxied into place, and then on goes the paint. I plan to paint the op of the rails after I rout the gutter. The paint I purchased is gray. Hopefully this section comes together well.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 6:44 am
by OrangeQuest
Really like the way your build is coming together. Very nice work!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 6:44 am Really like the way your build is coming together. Very nice work!
Thanks OQ! I got a lot of sanding done this weekend, and even sealed the center locker and both the live well and bait well. My friend Frasier came over and helped me on the boat. We thought through the fuel system and the tolerances of the fuel hose and valves for them being hidden under the gunnel. I am running the fuel hose and the wires for the LED lights in their own PVC pipes to keep the rats form chewing through them when the boat is parked. I just ordered an LED light to test out, one valve to mess with, and couple fittings - LEGOs for adults.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:28 pm
by flyfishingmonk
At this stage the six lockers in the back are sealed and ready for some quick fair to make them look a little nicer, but only the areas that will be seen through the hatches.

Then a pic of the kids when we picked up the conduit for the fuel line and wires.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:32 pm
by Jeff
Love seeing the young help Casey!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:24 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 12:32 pm Love seeing the young help Casey!!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Today a valve arrived for the fuel system and it looks pretty solid, so I plan to purchase two more for the boat. One for each tank and one for shutting off the fuel at the motor.

A light arrived too, LEDs for under the gunnel. I purchased one to see how I like it, and if it is nice I plan to pick up more.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress of the back six compartments. The fairing is coming along nicely, and reminding me how to work with the QuickFair in prep for the areas that are more seen, like the deck, hull, and the sole.

Then the LED, and the valve for the fuel. That Groco valve seems pretty beefy, I was pleased.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I am setting this right here so I don't forget.
cape man wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 11:42 am I made a "box" in the corners of my OD18 for the scuppers, with a plate on the front to receive and recess a standard plug.

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There's a 1" PVC coupling that goes through the hull, all epoxied in.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:25 pm
by OrangeQuest
That is so cool!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:29 pm
by Jwhitakeriii
flyfishingmonk wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 pm I am setting this right here so I don't forget.
cape man wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 11:42 am I made a "box" in the corners of my OD18 for the scuppers, with a plate on the front to receive and recess a standard plug.

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There's a 1" PVC coupling that goes through the hull, all epoxied in.
Looking really good. I may be dumb but what's the idea behind the box and scupper thing? I'm still trying to decide on a way to do my scuppers through my hull and am interested in that design. I assume it's probably just so you can plug it and have somewhere for the plug when it's plugged in?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jwhitakeriii wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:29 pm Looking really good. I may be dumb but what's the idea behind the box and scupper thing? I'm still trying to decide on a way to do my scuppers through my hull and am interested in that design. I assume it's probably just so you can plug it and have somewhere for the plug when it's plugged in?
Sorry Jwhitakeriii - I did not see your post.

The hull is only 3/8ths or so thick, and the plug needs to have some room to fit up inside of the tube. The box creates the room.

I am just debating on using the tube or just going with an epoxy hole, I suppose both will work fine.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Progress has been made the last week or so, but not a whole lot.

I had a chance to seal the rail and gutter assembly. And I worked on the mount for the jack plate pump.

I also picked up some plugs for the hull side drains - but debating using the tubes or not.

Then I made some flanges for some chase tubes I am working on that will give me access between the lockers in the back, passing through the bilge.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:22 am
by glossieblack
Lovely work Casey. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:26 am
by OrangeQuest
very nice!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:08 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks guys!!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
Community of builder and boat enthusiasts, what are your thoughts regarding brass drain tubes, verses just a hole that is clean and rounded on the edges? I have two drain tubes, and the device to flare them, but am curious of your thoughts.

Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:08 am
by seaslug
I use Schedule 40 PVC pipe for transom to cockpit, hatch gutter drains, and rod tubes. Rough it up with sandpaper and epoxy will never let go.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:01 am
by Aripeka Angler
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:00 am Community of builder and boat enthusiasts, what are your thoughts regarding brass drain tubes, verses just a hole that is clean and rounded on the edges? I have two drain tubes, and the device to flare them, but am curious of your thoughts.

Thanks!

Casey
I’ve used both methods described in your post.

Epoxy/painted cockpit drains on the XF20...
1E60A427-B621-49DA-8088-F61EE9E6E4F4.jpeg


Bronze cockpit drain tube on Bare Bones...
E071BEBD-3471-4005-B6F2-3EAB4C675130.jpeg
536A169D-727F-470A-9736-DF816B89AB2F.jpeg

While both setups have worked and held up great, the metal tubes look more professional IMHO. Good luck, I’m sure whatever you do will look great!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Things seaslug and AA! All sound like good options. I suppose since I have the drain tubes I will go ahead and use them.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:35 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the latest. This weekend was about 6 hours of garage cleaning, and 3 hours of boat building. After so much cutting a person just as to slow down and clean the place. There was sawdust everywhere! The youth group at church are trying to raise money for church camp, so I paid one of the young men in the youth group to help with the cleaning. Man he must have spent 45 minutes under the boat getting everything swept out. He vacuumed for hours, organized, and really helped clean the place. My five year old was in heaven because he loves to run the vac picking up all the dust from the saws and shavings from the drill press.

The first picture of the frame is for the gutter for the front hatch. Then a couple pics of the the two 1/2 half inch ply that make up the deck for the splash well. I used stainless steel to get the glass to lay flat, and where the glass is I cut down the board 1/16 of an inch with an electric hand plane. I plan to make the deck of the boat all one piece in the same manor before bonding it to the boat.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 am
by pee wee
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:35 pm Here is the latest. This weekend was about 6 hours of garage cleaning, and 3 hours of boat building. After so much cutting a person just has to slow down and clean the place.

Casey
It's taken me years to come to the view that time spent cleaning and straightening is an essential part of the job, not a detour or byproduct. On a smaller project I now consider the job finished only when all the tools are put away, floor swept, work table cleaned up- it's part of the job. The additional benefits are it helps me straighten up cluttered thoughts, and sometimes find that "thing" that had been lost or forgotten. It always feels so good once it's done! Some people are just born neatniks, for the rest of us it requires discipline.

Considering how neat your work is, I suspect you keep a neater shop than most of us. 8)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I agree with what you said Pee Wee. When things are clean I find a greater energy to work on the boat.

The work may be neat, but the floor sure gets crazy dirty! Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:19 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is a pic of the cross piece that will hold the front of the hatch gutter, and make it strong enough to stand on. I have since sanded it clean but this gives the idea.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:32 pm
by BB Sig
Looking good. Your attention to details will make this boat awesome.

What type of wood are you using for your gutters?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:45 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks Barry!

I have used dimensional mahogany and marine ply. I like how easy both are to work with.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:42 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are a couple more pics of the rail and gutter. The gutters have not been routed yet.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:30 pm
by OrangeQuest
pee wee wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 am
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:35 pm Here is the latest. This weekend was about 6 hours of garage cleaning, and 3 hours of boat building. After so much cutting a person just has to slow down and clean the place.

Casey
It's taken me years to come to the view that time spent cleaning and straightening is an essential part of the job, not a detour or byproduct. On a smaller project I now consider the job finished only when all the tools are put away, floor swept, work table cleaned up- it's part of the job. The additional benefits are it helps me straighten up cluttered thoughts, and sometimes find that "thing" that had been lost or forgotten. It always feels so good once it's done! Some people are just born neatniks, for the rest of us it requires discipline.

Considering how neat your work is, I suspect you keep a neater shop than most of us. 8)
Well said PeeWee, when I made a living using hand tools daily they were also put away at the end of the day. Now that I am retired, they seem to stay out more often than not.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
My 5 year old buddy caught him a nice perch and lost an amazing bass that broke off.

Then my 8 year old sweetheart caught a catfish! They had a blast. This was from a family vacation we took to East Texas.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 pm
by Capt UB
Cute! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:08 pm
by Fuzz
Great family pictures Casey :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:27 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Capt UB wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 pmCute! :D
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:08 pm Great family pictures Casey :D
Thanks guys!

Tonight I picked up two new push button fishing poles for the two youngest kids. The two in the pics. Some simple Zebcos on 6 foot rods. Their first real set up.

A few weeks back I purchased my oldest a new spin reel and rod. And I also got him a really nice frameless pontoon boat. I actually purchased three because they are made of such quality material, and it can get us all on the water at once. I purchased one similar from the same group about 20 years ago and it still works the same as the week I purchased it, with no problems.

:D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:39 am
by flyfishingmonk
I love to do woodworking, and I tell you what - I am running out of stuff to work on.

At this point it is pretty much narrowed down to the deck, cutting the hatches, some hardware, and the gutter routing. I know I have a toe rail to look forward to. Maybe a support piece in the center console. A board to help hold the batteries, specifically a piece that goes between the strap and batteries. Something to mount the fuel filter to.... and I think that is just about it. I find it kinda sad... :cry:

I am also venturing into the final stages of the fairing, epoxy, and the paint for the interior of the lockers and center console. I plan to get it professionally painted on the exterior.

Here are a couple pics of some of the last pieces that I built. One is the gutter for the bilge hatch. The hooks for the net, and the battery clamps that hold the toe of the batteries to the battery tray. They are prepped to get sealed. I did get to work on the front gutter and rail for the anchor locker. It is coming together nicely and I plan to start routing on it tomorrow.

Just for fun I am at 1,767 personal build hours, and family and friends have helped right at 300. I am thinking I will hit 2,000 build hours for myself. This does not take into account time on the form, research, or purchasing materials.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:24 am
by Fuzz
When you are done with the PH18 there is nothing saying the kids will not need their own boat :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:24 am When you are done with the PH18 there is nothing saying the kids will not need their own boat :D
Good call! Probably the LB28 and the LM18 and the GS28x and the..... :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
More progress. Tonight I worked on the anchor box, which is a box that will be in the anchor and battery locker and has a place to store the anchor the chain, and the rope. Here is a little trick. If your saw blade is tearing out the gain on your ply, put a piece of tape along the cut and it will reduce the tear out a lot, probably by 95% or more. It's when the play is cross cut. I had to cut off about an inch off the top of the box because it was a little high.

I then hand planed and sanded down the edge of the battery tray so it would slide up under a couple boards I have that hold it in place flat against bulkhead B - to keep from vibrating.

I also had a chance to round over the underside of the gutter rails. I am doing this on all the horizontal hatches so they are smooth when equipment is being pulled out or they are grabbed onto from a rocking boat. And because messing with the router is fun.

On the gutter rails in the picture, one part will actually be removable to allow room for the fuel tanks to be taken out of the boat if they ever need to be serviced or replaced. It will be screwed into place with wood glue, and then some silicone for water proofing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:39 am
by OrangeQuest
The tip on using tape is new to me, I have been scoring the cut with a razor knife that prevents tear out on the side you want a clean edge, the waste side not so much. I bought my router to round edges over but have yet to use it, but I know from the past how enjoyable it is to get a smooth rounded over edge quickly with just one pass.

Your work looks awesome!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:39 am The tip on using tape is new to me, I have been scoring the cut with a razor knife that prevents tear out on the side you want a clean edge, the waste side not so much. I bought my router to round edges over but have yet to use it, but I know from the past how enjoyable it is to get a smooth rounded over edge quickly with just one pass.

Your work looks awesome!
Hey thanks! Slowly but surely I am getting there. I hope to get some good build time in this weekend.

And the razor knife cut makes a lot of sense. Good call on that. I have not tried that before.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:00 pm
by Jeff
As always, beautiful work Casey!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:57 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:00 pm As always, beautiful work Casey!!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff! I will be placing an order soon for more epoxy, probably my last batch.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:09 am
by flyfishingmonk
So I was worried about me, or someone else, accidentally grabbing the incorrect screw for mounting the battery charger, and screwing it through the bottom of the hull. The battery charger is at the very tip of the bow, and if a 2" screw were used instead of 1 1/4" it may pass through the outside of the hull.

To stop this from ever happening, I epoxied a bolt in the bottom of each mount hole right at 1 1/4 depth. Now if a longer wood screw were every used, it simply would not continue past the bolt. And when I drill my pilot holes the bit will not pass through to the outside of the hull.

I have two panels that will hide the fuel tanks, and one is warped. To take out the warp, and to finish out the life jacket locker nice and pretty, I am epoxying on a stiffener board with a round over. It will give a finished look, and reduce any vibration of the 1/4 inch ply.

As for the pic with the pvc coupling, it is an experiment to install a pipe between two 1/4 ply panels that hide the fuel tanks, so I can get a fuel hose from one to the other. The rubber grommet worked well, and will hold the pipe in nice an snug. I'll share pics of it when I get it constructed.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:42 am
by flyfishingmonk
I think I ordered my last batch of epoxy. That is a nice feeling.

Almost all of the wood work from bulkhead B forward is done. The top pic does not show the stabilizer bar that is at the very front of the gutter assembly. When I epoxy it in I will get another pic of it. There is one panel I need to work on that will close the access hole in bulkhead A.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Evinrude announced the new G2 115hp High Output motor. I am waiting for the specs to come out, but I think I am going to change up the rigging of my boat, and eBay or return the few parts I picked up for the E-Tec.

This also means I may adjust some of the center console to go with a top mount binnacle control that I like. I had built the side mount binnacle into the center console because it looked 1000 times better than the plastic top mount they had in the past. With the new clean looking top mount I can modify console to fit. If it works out I will also be able to ascetically improve the center console, to possibly make it look more symmetrical on the sides.

The release of the new motor came at the right time, as the old E-Tec design has been around for 12 or so years I believe. When I purchase my motor it would have been out for two years. So hopefully some people will have some results online. I'll prob wait to hold off on the center console changes until the very end.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:58 am
by Jwhitakeriii
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:42 am I think I ordered my last batch of epoxy. That is a nice feeling.
That is a nice feeling indeed! I think I am about to have to order more. I'm almost twice what the plans called for and still going. I'm very epoxy heavy when fairing I guess. Plus all the extras I've built that weren't in the original plans. Every time I order more I think it will be my last order. 8) looking very good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:57 pm
by Aripeka Angler
If the G2 115hp motor is anything like the 200’s I just bought, you are going to love it.
The 200 HO’s have incredible low end torque and the hole shot is amazing.
I’ve been a Yamaha guy forever but these G2’s are growing on me fast.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:28 am
by topwater
The new G2 115 is the same engine they use for the 150 , so if you are going to carry the weight you can have more HP.
Pretty impressive engine for only 3 cylinders with great MPG especially at lower RPMs .

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Jwhitakeriii wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:58 am
flyfishingmonk wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:42 am I think I ordered my last batch of epoxy. That is a nice feeling.
That is a nice feeling indeed! I think I am about to have to order more. I'm almost twice what the plans called for and still going. I'm very epoxy heavy when fairing I guess. Plus all the extras I've built that weren't in the original plans. Every time I order more I think it will be my last order. 8) looking very good!
Hey thanks! Yep I used an amazing amount of epoxy for all the extras. And good call, this may be the second to last.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:57 pm If the G2 115hp motor is anything like the 200’s I just bought, you are going to love it.
The 200 HO’s have incredible low end torque and the hole shot is amazing.
I’ve been a Yamaha guy forever but these G2’s are growing on me fast.
That's good to hear. Yeah I look forward to the good fuel economy.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
topwater wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:28 am The new G2 115 is the same engine they use for the 150 , so if you are going to carry the weight you can have more HP.
Pretty impressive engine for only 3 cylinders with great MPG especially at lower RPMs .
That is a really good point. I did not realize they used the same engine. My jack plate is only rated to 115. So maybe I sell my jack plate, since it is new and jump up a size to hold a 150hp. I'll probably just get a new one since I can get the power up to 150 for the same weight.

I found an article that was written on the 14th, that said, "The Evinrude 115 HO, 140hp and 150hp engines are said to weigh just 180kg. This makes the flagship 150hp motor in this trio the lightest engine in its class by a long way."

This is only 6 lbs heavier than the current 115hp, and since it does not have an external oil tank I imagine the actual weight comes in less than the old 115. So the 150 is looking to be the engine of choice.

Which actually means I will have a very nice 4 inch set back Bob's Jack plate rated at 115hp, and some additional Evinrude parts that I would sell on eBay to replace with the new ones for the G2. This includes a side control, and an engine harness for the G1, and the oil tank. All new. The supplies I have used for the Evinrude parts may take the stuff back, and let me swap for the G2 stuff, as they have been very easy to work with.

I find this engine upgrade stuff to be a lot of fun!

Thanks for the feedback.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:17 am
by OrangeQuest
Casey your boat is looking really great!!

Keep reading about all the motors and you may wind up with something over 200hp!! :lol:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:22 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:17 am Casey your boat is looking really great!!

Keep reading about all the motors and you may wind up with something over 200hp!! :lol:
Thanks!

Before I know it I will have three mounted on the end of this thing! 900hp!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
Continued work on the panels that hide the fuel tanks. I am drilling holes that are for screwing down the panels to the stringers and a couple other blocks in the corners.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:11 am
by Dougster
Dang, that flexi thing on your drill! My life is incomplete until I get one. I got tool envy. Nice build, I hope to see it some day at the Port A boat show in April.

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Dougster wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:11 am Dang, that flexi thing on your drill! My life is incomplete until I get one. I got tool envy. Nice build, I hope to see it some day at the Port A boat show in April.

Dougster
Thanks Dougster! That would be great if I could be done by April 2020. But maybe April 2021.

The flex extension I picked this up years ago and the part that holds the drill bit I got at Rockler. It came in a set with 6 or 7 different sizes to hold various drill bits.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:46 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Can you guys think of a situation where going up to the 150hp would be an issue? I overbuilt the transom with three 1/2 sheets and 4 layers of biaxel, and two stringers in the middle coming all the way up to the deck. The floor added even additional glass and support. I could probably go up to 300hp to be honest, the way it is built. I dont have any concern but was curious.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:29 am
by Fuzz
I hear Merc will have a 450 out soon. Might be just the ticket :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:36 am
by flyfishingmonk
Fuzz wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:29 am I hear Merc will have a 450 out soon. Might be just the ticket :D
Or the Seven 627hp. :D

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:00 am
by Aripeka Angler
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:46 pm Can you guys think of a situation where going up to the 150hp would be an issue? I overbuilt the transom with three 1/2 sheets and 4 layers of biaxel, and two stringers in the middle coming all the way up to the deck. The floor added even additional glass and support.
Casey
Sounds like you built the hull is plenty strong enough for 150hp.
I probably wouldn’t do it though.
If something bad happens it could torment you for a long time.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:23 am
by cape man
I'm with Richard. That boat will scream with a 90hp, you'll get much better fuel efficiency, and you won't have to worry about the transom, gunwales, or stringers coming loose. Plus you will sit higher at rest or when idling. You are building her fat already, which is fine, but a 150 is kinda big for her.

However, she's yours, and a 150 would be fun! :help:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:48 am
by cvincent
The new G2 115 and 150 will share the same block and weight. Depending on the price difference it may be worth getting the 150 and operating the boat conservatively.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:35 am
by flyfishingmonk
Aripeka Angler wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:00 am
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:46 pm Can you guys think of a situation where going up to the 150hp would be an issue? I overbuilt the transom with three 1/2 sheets and 4 layers of biaxel, and two stringers in the middle coming all the way up to the deck. The floor added even additional glass and support.
Casey
Sounds like you built the hull is plenty strong enough for 150hp.
I probably wouldn’t do it though.
If something bad happens it could torment you for a long time.
cape man wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:23 am I'm with Richard. That boat will scream with a 90hp, you'll get much better fuel efficiency, and you won't have to worry about the transom, gunwales, or stringers coming loose. Plus you will sit higher at rest or when idling. You are building her fat already, which is fine, but a 150 is kinda big for her.

However, she's yours, and a 150 would be fun! :help:
The boat is a fair bit bigger than the 18. It's wider, longer, and has a ton of stuff added. Thinking....

cvincent wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:48 am The new G2 115 and 150 will share the same block and weight. Depending on the price difference it may be worth getting the 150 and operating the boat conservatively.
Yeah this is what has me considering it. I blame topwater for pointing it out and having considering the changes. :wink:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:59 am
by flyfishingmonk
I upgraded my band saw this week, and did some work on the speakers for the center console. The upgrade was for the guides, and the work was to make something for the speakers to be mounted into. I angled the blocks to give more meat for the screws to mount into. The blocks follow the angle of the sub woofer speaker cone .

For the mid size speakers I made little round over blocks since they can be seen from the inside of the center console.

The blue block picture is of the anchor box. I am adding a red bungee cord to keep it in place, specifically thinking through the hooks the cord will have and where the cord will attach. Thinking through stuff like this is really a lot of fun, how each detail works out in the end.

The blind nuts have been epoxied into place. They are for the battery hold downs. I pulled them down tight with large washers and the boltsI plan to use on the batteries.

The pic of the fillet is on the panel that hides the fuel tank. It is more to make things easy to clean up than anything else.

And Dougster - found one of the flexi things at Rockler, made by Makita. Looks to very similar so I took a pic for you.

And then one picture of what I think is the last board I will purchase for the boat, some dimensional mahogany, along with a cool picture I received from a client.
Dougster wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:11 am Dang, that flexi thing on your drill! My life is incomplete until I get one. I got tool envy. Nice build, I hope to see it some day at the Port A boat show in April.

Dougster
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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:16 am
by Dougster
Looks real fine, I'd make of mess trying that I bet. Thanks for the pic of the attachment, I'm gonna hunt one down.

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:04 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Dougster wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:16 am Looks real fine, I'd make of mess trying that I bet. Thanks for the pic of the attachment, I'm gonna hunt one down.

Dougster
Thanks for the compliment. It seems to becoming together well enough.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:11 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here are some pics of the tube I made to span the fuel tank panels. This is what will hold the fuel line as it passes through the life jacket compartment. I purchased rubber grommets I found online, and then had to use my lathe to bevel the coupling so it would be easier to install. I should have beveled the couplers before I glued them into place, but did not know it would be that challenging to get them into the grommets. I like how it turned out. Messing with custom stuff is so a lot of fun. The notch in the cleat is so the fuel tank will slide into place when installed. It had to be shaven off some for the top of the tank not to rub.

The last two pics shows the completion of the anchor box, with the anchor and rope. The anchor is held in place with yoga blocks, and will be bolted into the boat. Then a bungee will keep the anchor from coming up out of the foam. The foam itself keeps it held in place very tight, but the bungee will be for good measure. "Belt and suspenders" is what my dad likes to say.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 pm
by TomW1
Everything is looking good Casey. Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 pm Everything is looking good Casey. Tom
Thanks Tom! Good to hear from you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:42 am
by steeps
Casey,
Your build is looking great. Can't wait to see her in the water. Question, you mentioned selling your jack plate in a previous post. After splashing my OD16, I'm going to be in the market for one. If you want to sell it, send me the details (make, model, $, @ (stoeckel.jim@gmail.com)), maybe I can help a brother out.

-Jim

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:16 am
by Jeff
Casey, beautiful work!!!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
steeps wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:42 am Casey,
Your build is looking great. Can't wait to see her in the water. Question, you mentioned selling your jack plate in a previous post. After splashing my OD16, I'm going to be in the market for one. If you want to sell it, send me the details (make, model, $, @ (stoeckel.jim@gmail.com)), maybe I can help a brother out.

-Jim
Hi steeps, sounds good let's chat. I'll email you.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:43 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:16 am Casey, beautiful work!!!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:00 am
by flyfishingmonk
After a couple weeks of travel to the East Coast for business, and a few days off, I am back home and getting some work done on the boat. I did manage to squeeze in a half day of a guided fishing trip while I was gone, but the fishing was slow. On another occasion during the same tirp my 8 year old caught her first little fish on a fly rod. That was fun. I took a picture of the sunrise that won me $100 bucks in a contest with some of associates.

Today I began to prime the inside of the fuel tank compartments. I feel like getting to some of the painting stage is a cool milestone. My little guy joined me in the garage before I started the painting. Then, because of the fumes, he had to stay inside while I worked. This paint is some stinky stuff. My new 3M mask form Home Depot did the trick. I could not smell a thing.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:02 am
by OrangeQuest
Hope all is well, you have not posted in a while so figured I would check up on progress.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:39 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:02 am Hope all is well, you have not posted in a while so figured I would check up on progress.
Howdy OrangeQuest, and everyone else!

It has been a super busy summer, with little work on the boat. I did manage to get the second coat of paint on the fuel compartments, so they are now done. This weekend I finally started back up on the boat, specifically the drain plugs that empty the cockpit. I will put some pics up of the progress, but first the fishing from this summer.

As for the delay on the boat - this summer I have been working on a big work project, the launch of our new website. Completed that so now I will get my evenings back. I have also been working on getting ready to build a new home, so that takes time. And two fishing trips back to back - one to fly fish for pike in Canada, and another 4 day 3 night backpacking trip into Yellowstone park to fly fish for trout.

I managed to catch a 36", 37", 38" and a 39" all on the fly over the course of 4 days. I had a handful of ever bigger Muskie follow the fly, two strikes, but no hook set. That was a day and a half on the water in Minnesota. Next time maybe. I used 10 and 12 weight Thomas and Thomas surf fly rods. Those rods can cast a fly a really long way. Typical cast between 60 and 80 feet, with some approaching 100'. Works well when blind casting to pike, or site casting to Muskie. Two arm rods make for an easier day than the typical overhand fly rod. The pike loved the flies my son and I tied up before the trip. I also picked up a new reel for my 14 weight fly rod, big enough to land tuna. It's is a monster fly reel, and you can see it next to a full size keyboard in the pic below. I call it the dinner plate. One day I hope to fish with it.

As for the trout, I landed a 22" on my 5 weight with a dry fly. Site casting. That was a lot of fun. This was after hiking 5 to 6 miles and two nights of camping before the third day of finally catching some fish. The first two days were really more hiking and exploring the river. I purchased a tent to replace my old one that finally fell apart, and it works great for hiking and fly fishing, with a vestibule large enough to hold everything under the rain fly (pack, waders, boots, etc), but not inside the tent.

Next up I will post some pics of the boat progress.

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:01 pm
by OrangeQuest
Really nice looking fish and reels!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:01 pm Really nice looking fish and reels!
Thanks!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:48 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the completed fuel tank compartment. It won't be seen but I painted it anyway. My friend Matt came over and I taught him how to use the lathe. He turned some mahogany dowels I need for the rod holders. This weekend my parents came down to visit. I had not seen them in what seemed like ages. Dad and I worked on the brass drain tube locations. Then the pic of my youngest is of him taking apart some old parts from my bandsaw upgrade. To him taking screws and ball bearings off of different parts are like finding little treasures. He keeps them all in his locked tool box. The garage is a total mess right now since I have not worked in there for weeks. But the AC still works. =)

Casey

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:03 am
by Jeff
Great fishing and nice progress Casey!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:47 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Jeff wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:03 am Great fishing and nice progress Casey!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:29 pm
by steeps
Hi Casey,

Been travelling and just read this. My best email is stoeckel.jim@gmail.com

thanks

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:12 am
by flyfishingmonk
steeps wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:29 pm Hi Casey,

Been travelling and just read this. My best email is stoeckel.jim@gmail.com

thanks
Jim I shot you an email.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:21 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress on the drain plugs. I went ahead and epoxied them in now, instead of messing with them later. I used the tool to shape them (forgot the name... it's late), and also used that to hold them in place as I epoxied them into the boat. The drain tube is within a 16th of an inch or so of the floor. I started with a block that made the thickness of the hull and the block the exact same thickness of the brass tube, and then I added a 3/4 piece of mahogany shaped to hold the brass handle. I made it slanted just for fun, after discussing it with my son. He thought it would look cool. I like how they turned out. Next up I will finish other side, it is almost done. Then I will proceed hopefully with some more painting of the lockers.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:13 am
by glossieblack
Nice scupper plug detail Casey! :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:46 am
by OrangeQuest
I really like the way that turned out too!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:13 am
by flyfishingmonk
glossieblack wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:13 am Nice scupper plug detail Casey! :D
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:46 am I really like the way that turned out too!
Thanks guys! I am getting ready to post some more pics of both plates. They came together very well I believe.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:24 am
by flyfishingmonk
Here is the progress of the plates. You can see the finger slot for opening the handle. Works like a champ.

I keep running out of woodworking stuff to do and finding myself needing to mess with epoxy. I prefer the woodworking over the epoxy. :?

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 am
by Fuzz
Man this build is full of custom features! That is going to be one nice boat!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:10 am
by cape man
Those plates look familiar 8) You will like them. Nothing to catch a toe or anything else.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:53 am
by Dougster
Very cool, I really like those. I'm experienced wood worker at all but, like you, enjoy fooling with the wood more than the epoxy.

Dougster

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Yep Cape Man gets full credit. I saved his pic on my thread months ago to not forget his genius skills.

Casey
cape man wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:10 am Those plates look familiar 8) You will like them. Nothing to catch a toe or anything else.
Jwhitakeriii wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:29 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 pm I am setting this right here so I don't forget.
cape man wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 11:42 am I made a "box" in the corners of my OD18 for the scuppers, with a plate on the front to receive and recess a standard plug.

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There's a 1" PVC coupling that goes through the hull, all epoxied in.
Looking really good. I may be dumb but what's the idea behind the box and scupper thing? I'm still trying to decide on a way to do my scuppers through my hull and am interested in that design. I assume it's probably just so you can plug it and have somewhere for the plug when it's plugged in?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:08 am
by flyfishingmonk
Dougster wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:53 am Very cool, I really like those. I'm experienced wood worker at all but, like you, enjoy fooling with the wood more than the epoxy.

Dougster
Fuzz wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 am Man this build is full of custom features! That is going to be one nice boat!
Thanks guys! Credit to Cape Man. The only tweak I made was setting it at a slight angle for fun.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:00 pm
by cape man
I like fun!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:08 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Ok it's been a long time since I have posted, but I have managed to get a fair amount of work done over the last 3 or 4 months. Below are photos for the interior lighting. In some new posts I will add photos of some modifications to the center console, and the hatch and latch work. I also made a lot of progress on the fuel lines too.

First a quick life update. Work has been good, and we broke ground on a new house. Summer sold a book to Simon and Schuster, and it should be in stores this fall. Here is a pic of the cover. It's for kids age 11 and up, the same age group that the first Harry Potter was written for. I should get an Amazon preorder link soon, for anyone who enjoys reading middle grade, or has young kids or grandkids ages 11 and up. It is around 70,000 words, is apparently a really fun read, so they say, as I have not read it yet. This is by design, so I don't get in her creative space. A sequel comes out in 2021. Below the following pics is a boat update.

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We also got a new puppy. I plan to train him to be a great gun dog. His name is Atticus Sebastian Murdock the Third. A fine name for a fine dog.

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Elise and I plan to paint a picture in all 50 states. We haven't started yet, but we did manage to get in a painting lesson over the break.

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And Colton started learning how to use the band saw, so he made his mom a puzzle. Here is one of the first cuts on the puzzle.

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I managed to build 8 custom junction boxes for led lights that will illuminate the sole. The boxes are between the coaming and a piece of class PVC that I am using to run speaker wires and the wires that power the lights. I really like how it turned out. The PVC does not pass all the way through the gussets, so as to keep the gussets strong. The PVC has also been heated and bent to keep it up tight under the gunnel, and just at the right height for each LED light strip and the center line of the gusset. I cut each piece to the right length so each is held in by both friction between the gussets, and the epoxy. Each box is routed with a cove bit to meet up with the PVC radius. The reason for the PVC is to keep rats and mice from eating the wires. My brother-in-law's boat has been eaten twice, and they got into my work car last year and chewed through a wire to the headlight. My brother-in-law helped and is in the photo below with my youngest son Jude and I. Jude is getting very proficient on the belt sander and the drill press, and he is only 5. His sister is getting quite skilled with a dermal tool and the belt sander. Colton and I then added a piece on the backside of each junction box to permanently hold in the PVC, and to stiffen the gunnel. It is shaped like a hood. We rounded the edges of them with a router before we epoxied them into place. We are getting down to only a few pieces of wood that can be cut and added to the boat, kinda sad if you ask me - because I love the woodworking part the best and sorta don't want the project to come to an end. =/

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I also got some painting in on the front hatches.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:08 am
by Jeff
flyfishingmonk, good to hear from you!! Great photos of the kids & pup!! Good progress on the boat as well!! Jeff

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:14 am
by Browndog
When you start painting the interior of hatches you know the deck will be in place soon.

You have some good momentum building. Looking forward to seeing the paint job on the deck.

Way to go.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:56 am
by OrangeQuest
Was just thinking about your build. Glad to see you at it again! With all the little workers, who is "really" building the boat? :lol: :lol:

At any rate, the boat is really looking good!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:19 am
by cape man
Great update!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:49 pm
by Jwhitakeriii
flyfishingmonk wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:08 pm Ok it's been a long time since I have posted, but I have managed to get a fair amount of work done over the last 3 or 4 months. Below are photos for the interior lighting. In some new posts I will add photos of some modifications to the center console, and the hatch and latch work. I also made a lot of progress on the fuel lines too.

First a quick life update. Work has been good, and we broke ground on a new house. Summer sold a book to Simon and Schuster, and it should be in stores this fall. Here is a pic of the cover. It's for kids age 11 and up, the same age group that the first Harry Potter was written for. I should get an Amazon preorder link soon, for anyone who enjoys reading middle grade, or has young kids or grandkids ages 11 and up. It is around 70,000 words, is apparently a really fun read, so they say, as I have not read it yet. This is by design, so I don't get in her creative space. A sequel comes out in 2021. Below the following pics is a boat update.

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We also got a new puppy. I plan to train him to be a great gun dog. His name is Atticus Sebastian Murdock the Third. A fine name for a fine dog.

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Elise and I plan to paint a picture in all 50 states. We haven't started yet, but we did manage to get in a painting lesson over the break.

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And Colton started learning how to use the band saw, so he made his mom a puzzle. Here is one of the first cuts on the puzzle.

Image

I managed to build 8 custom junction boxes for led lights that will illuminate the sole. The boxes are between the coaming and a piece of class PVC that I am using to run speaker wires and the wires that power the lights. I really like how it turned out. The PVC does not pass all the way through the gussets, so as to keep the gussets strong. The PVC has also been heated and bent to keep it up tight under the gunnel, and just at the right height for each LED light strip and the center line of the gusset. I cut each piece to the right length so each is held in by both friction between the gussets, and the epoxy. Each box is routed with a cove bit to meet up with the PVC radius. The reason for the PVC is to keep rats and mice from eating the wires. My brother-in-law's boat has been eaten twice, and they got into my work car last year and chewed through a wire to the headlight. My brother-in-law helped and is in the photo below with my youngest son Jude and I. Jude is getting very proficient on the belt sander and the drill press, and he is only 5. His sister is getting quite skilled with a dermal tool and the belt sander. Colton and I then added a piece on the backside of each junction box to permanently hold in the PVC, and to stiffen the gunnel. It is shaped like a hood. We rounded the edges of them with a router before we epoxied them into place. We are getting down to only a few pieces of wood that can be cut and added to the boat, kinda sad if you ask me - because I love the woodworking part the best and sorta don't want the project to come to an end. =/

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I also got some painting in on the front hatches.

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https://www.gundogsupply.com/smartfetch ... 5cQAvD_BwE

Not sure what kind of gun dog you are wanting to end up with but this is a great series of books that will take you through every step. I bought a bunch of books on dog training 11-12 years ago and this was my most valuable resource. I trained him completely myself and could go pass finished hunt tests with him no problem at all. Seasons have changed and now he mostly sits around the house but I'd like to think i at least used to have a decent grasp on retriever training and would be more than happy to share what I may still know. It almost requires as much time as building a boat and I can say it is probably just as satisfying!

The boat looks great and (just like any other time I look at your project) makes me feel like I'm over here playing in the sand box. Keep up the excellent work.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:25 pm
by henry26
Updates?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:30 am
by glossieblack
Happy birthday! :D

How goes the build?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:03 am
by fallguy1000
Did we lost him forever?

I'm awful curious about these phantoms.

Might get the book, too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 12:25 am
by flyfishingmonk
henry26 wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:25 pmUpdates?
Well let's see not much happened on the boat the last 2 years. But I did build a house during 2020 and 2021 so that took quite awhile because houses are a challenge, some delays with supply shortages and contractors. In addition, the "attention to detail problem" that I have slowed things down a bit more but it turned out fantastic. There is a lot of it I did myself (built-ins, steam punk tornado shelter, rounding staircase up to a catwalk designed to hold three fly tying stations, speaker wire for future ceiling and wall speakers, bedrooms and such.

Then there is all of the work-from-home stuff like cat-6 throughout, server room for printers and computers, a four camera studio for live streaming to clients, a home office for my wife, a home office for myself, Unifi access points stations, outdoor Wi-Fi, etc. The real blessing is I did most of it under the pre-Covid price arrangement so pricing was decent. And now my old house I am preparing it for the market. This means hopefully I will sell it for a nice upswing.

But the new house, you should see the garage!!! Its about 1,000 sf of awesomeness with garage doors large enough to back in and out the boat with a poling platform, 13 foot high ceilings, heated and cooled (still need to move the AC unit over from the old house). So now I soon hope to be back on the build. Some photos below are of the new garage - my daughter sitting on some new workbenches I set up, a friend helping with some wood paneling.

The large blue bookshelf is what I built my wife. She loves her books!

As for fishing man have I seen some AMAZING water from 2020 and 2021 and now here in 2022. Alaska twice and Montana once, Idaho, and some I may be forgetting. So the fishing has been great. Loads of fish. I caught three steelhead rainbow trout on fly rods running 34, 32, and 27 inches in length over the last 13 months, and lots of other fish. Loads of fun!
fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:03 am Did we lost him forever?

I'm awful curious about these phantoms.

Might get the book, too.
Hopefully getting back in the swing of things.
glossieblack wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:30 am Happy birthday! :D

How goes the build?
Thanks! The build was on pause for the above, but I am now moving closer to setting up the new garage for the final push. I estimate I have 5% to 10% more left to finish the build.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 1:49 am
by TomW1
I am glad you are about ready to get back to finish your PH18. The new house sounds wonderful. May you enjoy every day that you put into it. Those are some nice fish.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 5:05 am
by glossieblack
Thanks for the update. Good to have you back on the air. :D

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 1:48 pm
by Fuzz
Couple of questions. Where did you go in Alaska and where did you catch the steelheads?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 2:47 pm
by cape man
NICE STEELHEADS!!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:21 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Thanks everyone!

I hope everyone is well. I am getting my shop set back up, currently building an elevator lift to take advantage of the attic garage storage. It will be beefy! 1,500lb beefy! I am going to put my lathes, bandsaw, and a few other odds and ends that don't get used as much in the attic, as there is adequate space to use them up there, saving on the floor space.

Doh! Looks like Evinrude is out...Yamaha or Merc?

I am leaning toward Yamaha.

Other suggestions?

Thanks all!

Casey

P.S. I took the boys fishing, breaking over into the world of spin gear for them. I picked up a nice spin rod (St. Croix) and two 5000 Vanford Shimano reels. My goal is to slowly accumulate a collection of spin and bait casting rods for the boat, so anyone can fish - as fly fishing takes too darn long to learn for a day out with a guest.

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Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:07 pm
by cape man
Yamaha! Pricey but worth every penny!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:25 am
by TomW1
I agree Yamaha, they just keep on running. If you need help in selecting a prop let me know.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:20 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Boat Building Friends,

Here is a post to catch up on 2022, and 2023.

Well the house is pretty much done. Wife is happy, and the kids are doing great.

I managed to build another set of bookshelves, and a nice rounding stair case in my home office up to a loft I designed for my fly-tying. I built a steam punk storm shelter (décor and final door still pending completion).

I also built an pretty epic elevator that will lift about 1,000 lbs. I made it so I could take advantage of the space above my garage. I put my lathe, planer, bandsaw, two decent size sanding stations, and a load of other tools in this space. Works great.

I finished my new 3 car garage, stained the floor, put in an AC system, and got my boat set back up and ready for building. I made a separate tent in my garage just for the boat project, so the dust made form finishing up the last 10% of the boat build will be kept in check.

Onward and upward.

Casey

P.S. I took up guitar, that was a mistake. I may never finish this boat. =)

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:51 pm
by TomW1
Casey glad to have you back now put aside the guitar and finish the boat. :lol: :lol:

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:10 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:51 pm Casey glad to have you back now put aside the guitar and finish the boat. :lol: :lol:

Tom
That is some good advice there!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:11 pm
by OrangeQuest
Wow! Sounds like we need some new pics! :lol:

Glad you are gearing up to continue the build.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:04 am
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:11 pm Wow! Sounds like we need some new pics! :lol:

Glad you are gearing up to continue the build.
I'll see what I can pull together. =)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:38 pm
by OrangeQuest
If I remember correctly, you have a couple of kids that were becoming good craftsmen, hope they are joining back in too.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:51 pm
by flyfishingmonk
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:38 pm If I remember correctly, you have a couple of kids that were becoming good craftsmen, hope they are joining back in too.
Oh they are the greatest! Picking up a lot of knowledge along the way. All three of them are doing dynamite in school too. And involved in church. Great kiddos! :)

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:49 pm
by flyfishingmonk
It's amazing how stinky the Interlux system, but very easy to work with.

I am working on all the front lockers of the boat, which consist of two fuel lockers, a center locker for life jackets, and the front locker for 3 batteries and the anchor.

Making some progress today!

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:48 pm
by TomW1
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:49 pm It's amazing how stinky the Interlux system, but very easy to work with.

I am working on all the front lockers of the boat, which consist of two fuel lockers, a center locker for life jackets, and the front locker for 3 batteries and the anchor.

Making some progress today!

Casey
I hope the front locker has two compartments one for the batteries and one for the anchor and rode. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 5:29 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:48 pm
flyfishingmonk wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:49 pm It's amazing how stinky the Interlux system, but very easy to work with.

I am working on all the front lockers of the boat, which consist of two fuel lockers, a center locker for life jackets, and the front locker for 3 batteries and the anchor.

Making some progress today!

Casey
I hope the front locker has two compartments one for the batteries and one for the anchor and rode. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom
Well I was looking at sealed batteries (Optima), and the anchor and rode are in a separate "box" but sitting within the same locker. Does that create a problem? Anchor is galvanized and rode is stainless. :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:14 pm
by TomW1
The batteries always need a compartment of their own no matter what type they are. Just build a removable compartment wall so you can get to them. But seal them as you are putting them where they will get, they will get the most pounding of anywhere in the boat. If I were you, I would try to reconfigure your console to hold them there in a separate compartment. Well hopes this helps you.

Tom

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:01 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:14 pm The batteries always need a compartment of their own no matter what type they are. Just build a removable compartment wall so you can get to them. But seal them as you are putting them where they will get, they will get the most pounding of anywhere in the boat. If I were you, I would try to reconfigure your console to hold them there in a separate compartment. Well hopes this helps you.

Tom
.

Duplicate post... see above.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:14 pm The batteries always need a compartment of their own no matter what type they are. Just build a removable compartment wall so you can get to them. But seal them as you are putting them where they will get, they will get the most pounding of anywhere in the boat. If I were you, I would try to reconfigure your console to hold them there in a separate compartment. Well hopes this helps you.

Tom
Well when you and I worked on the displacement a few years back, the only place that worked for them to give the correct weight distribution was that far forward. So I'll just plan to sacrifice a few anchors and chains over the years. Realistically, as little as I get to fish, general age and TX heat will be the death of the batteries before any pounding on the sea.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:09 pm
by BarraMan
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:14 pm The batteries always need a compartment of their own no matter what type they are.
Why? :doh:

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:42 pm
by Aripeka Angler
BarraMan wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:09 pm
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:14 pm The batteries always need a compartment of their own no matter what type they are.
Why? :doh:
No, just not in the same compartment with a fuel tank.
Keep in mind this guy has never built a boat of any kind.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Good thoughts on fuel tanks.

The fuel tanks have some very nice compartments of their own.

All good there.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:15 am
by flyfishingmonk
So today I was able to get the 2nd coat of primer on the front lockers.

Next up, I plan to get two coats of paint on the fuel tank lockers, life jacket locker, battery locker. That will tidy up the front of the boat.

Then I'll focus on the back of the boat for the remaining 6 lockers. They are about 95% ready for their primer coat.

After that, I'll see where my energy is for the next section.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:18 am
by flyfishingmonk
Anyone have a strong opinion of the Mercury vs. Yamaha 115?

Or is it 6 of one.... type of thing.

I like the idea of the Mercury being lighter, if I am looking at the specs correctly.

Thanks in advance.

Casey

P.S. Wow I am so thankful the garage has two doors between it and them main house. That primer is so strong smelling.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:20 am
by BarraMan
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:18 am Anyone have a strong opinion of the Mercury vs. Yamaha 115?
Or is it 6 of one.... type of thing.
I like the idea of the Mercury being lighter, if I am looking at the specs correctly.
Thanks in advance.
Casey
P.S. Wow I am so thankful the garage has two doors between it and them main house. That primer is so strong smelling.
I have reasonably strong opinions on the subject! :D
I used to be a Mercury man - but then they went bad. I hear the new generation Mercs are better.
I am now a Yamaha man and currently own two - I luv'em! There is a reason that 90% of commercial operators here use Yamahas!
My fishing mate is an OB mechanic and Yamaha is his go to motor!

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
BarraMan wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:20 am
flyfishingmonk wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:18 am Anyone have a strong opinion of the Mercury vs. Yamaha 115?
Or is it 6 of one.... type of thing.
I like the idea of the Mercury being lighter, if I am looking at the specs correctly.
Thanks in advance.
Casey
P.S. Wow I am so thankful the garage has two doors between it and them main house. That primer is so strong smelling.
I have reasonably strong opinions on the subject! :D
I used to be a Mercury man - but then they went bad. I hear the new generation Mercs are better.
I am now a Yamaha man and currently own two - I luv'em! There is a reason that 90% of commercial operators here use Yamahas!
My fishing mate is an OB mechanic and Yamaha is his go to motor!
Good feedback! Ok we have a strong vote for Yamaha here.

Casey

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:33 am
by pee wee
Something else to take into consideration is service support- is there a great service place for one near you, but for the other you have to drive an hour or more away?

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:12 am
by narfi
I went with mercury because it was willing to play nicely with my chart plotter and display all engine info on the screen.

Re: PH18 Build in North Dallas (PH20)

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
pee wee wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:33 am Something else to take into consideration is service support- is there a great service place for one near you, but for the other you have to drive an hour or more away?
narfi wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:12 am I went with mercury because it was willing to play nicely with my chart plotter and display all engine info on the screen.
Some more good input! Ok I had not thought of this side of the equation yet, for either of the above comments.

Casey