Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:32 pm**

It's official

I've started my gf.
I picked up my wood Friday afternoon from Wanchese, N.C.. Saturday I was able to cut and laminate my side panels and cut out my transoms and seat frames.

More pictures and progress to follow.

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:31 pm**

The fun begins!

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:11 pm**

All right another build to follow. Have fun!

Tom

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:26 pm**

Welcome in the GF-Club

Bernd

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:31 pm**

I second the welcome to the '"GF" club from bernd. I am trying to get mine finished, but everytime I get going something goes crazy with my body and I have to take a break. I hope to do the final seal on the bottom this next couple of weeks and then go from there. Welcome to the club, jump on in and ponder awhile and build awhile.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:14 am**

Thanks for the warm welcome guys.

Well, I made my first mistake last night. I had a couple of spare minutes so I decided to precoat the frame locations on the side panels so that I could put the frames and side panels together tonight.

As I was about to drift off to sleep I realized that I marked and precoated the wrong side of one of the panels. (Two left sides won't work)

Silly mistake. Oh well, One thing I've learned so far, there is always something else to work on.

I'll cut and splice the bottom panel instead tonight.

Stay tuned, I'm sure this newbie will be needing some advice soon.
Thanks,
Daniel

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:43 am**

Daniel, don't hurry - take your build step by step......

If I look back to my first steps I carefully build one piece after one......but with the time you build faster as at the begin.

Make a checklist for all hardware you want to install in future - it saves a lot of time in further building.

My GF has at the moment about 35 backing plates for some hardware like clamps, rod holder, lights inside the box and outside, holder for a fishing umbrella, fishfinder, transductor, bow eye, battery holder........

After you made your side panels and your transoms and frames I highly recommend to build a jig which is on level and flat
.....on this jig I would mount my frames and then dry fit the transoms.

Please check then your boat for symetry /diagonal - don't glue the side panels to the transoms before this - I didn't - and it ended with a small error in symetry -but this error follows you through the whole build...I can tell you....

Keep on building

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:16 pm**

Thanks for the backing plate tip Bernd.

I am planning to dry assemble all frames and transoms without a jig.

I know this is against all advice that I have recieved concerning the gf bottom. Advice wich I have come to respect and appreciate but I have a theory/idea that I think will work without spending the money on jig
materials. My building area is a bit cramped as well.

I will explain through pictures in the near future, but I will not make anything permanent without getting the stamp of approval from you guys.

We all know that I'll probably have a jig built before this weekend, but you never know. I might be able to put that jig money towards Sterling paint instead.

Thanks for the tips Bernd,
Daniel

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:47 pm**

Daniel,

nothing expensive in a jig -just a panel flat and on level - or without if you have a floor on level in your garage.....

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:06 pm**

Hello Murry,

If the plans specify a jig... build a jig. There are all sorts of ways to measure costs. The designers take great pains to develop not only the designs, but the building method(s) to minimize costs measured in many ways. The cost of the jig, like the cost of the core plywood, is ultimately negligible compared to time and other materials invested by the end of the project.

Use good wood, and if the plans specify a jig, use a jig.

And welcome to the group.

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:14 am**

Thanks for the welcome ks8, and thanks for all the lessons I've learned through your pictures and posts.

The plans for the gf have you building this boat flat on the ground (level ground) and there isn't a mention of a jig.

The problem is that many folks have ended up with severe hook/rocker
when built that way.
(can't remember the deference between hook and rocker, someone please help with that so that I don't confuse people)

I am not against a jig and may end up building one and Bernd if I do I'll get some ideas from you on how I should build it. So stay tuned

Progress: I was able to get the bottom cut, plained and spliced last night and I finished precoating the panels so that I can start putting this puzzle together.

I'm alsmost ready to see a boat.

One thing I ran into was that my wood was 2500mm and instead of 2438.
Took some extra figuring but wasn't difficult it just made it alot easier to make a mistake.

Thanks for the help on my boat,
Daniel

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:16 pm**

I just figured out how to get the pictures loaded.

I'll try not to get carried away.

Wood all wrapped up for the wet ride home....the only water this wood will see/feel will be full of fish... Did I mention how beatiful the wood is.

I really enjoyed drawing out the panels...plans are very easy to follow.

Both side panels after plaining...I had them screwed together while plaining them..... just need to splice.

I left the side panels screwed together at the ends hoping to get two panels exactly the same after splicing... they came out nice.

I butted both sheets to draw out the bottom panel.... then secured them to a piece of luan to cut them out.

Plaining to my lines really has been enjoyable and it makes it very easy to get a nice line... not necessary, but hopefully the time I'm taking will show through to the finished product... we'll see.

I used a full piece of luan to secure the two bottom panels so they wouldn't move during the first splice(the panels are loosely screwed to the edges of the luan, about 4 feet from the splice). I proped them up, wet out the edges and faces, applied glue to the edges, lowered the panels and used a spreader to force more glue into the seam. I wet out the tape and applied weight to the seem for curing. I'll post pics after taping the other side.

What do you think so far?

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:45 pm**

looking good.

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:28 pm**

Nice work. I enjoyed the panel laying out.I understand why people will buy the kits, but to me this bit is a big part of building your own, as you stand or fall on your own.
good luck,
Steve

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:53 pm**

I also enjoy laying out the panels and cutting them. I'm a lot better at that than I am painting

Gives you better bragging rights if you can say you built it from scratch

Looks good Murray.

...I had them screwed together while plaining them.....

I know it's too late for this tip, but when making duplicate parts like side panels, if you screw both panels together and cut them out simultaneously as one, they will be exact duplicates without needing to plane. This also allows you to only have to mark one panel, reducing chances of mistakes in measuring and marking.

I do love to plane nice wood though

My favorite tool, and much friendlier than the sander

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:10 pm**

Every thing moves so fast at that stage.... Enjoy the instant gratification it is only temporary then comes sanding....

Posted: **Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:27 pm**

looking good.

Thanks Joel. I'm having alot of fun. I've been wanting to do this for about
two years.

I understand why people will buy the kits, but to me this bit is a big part of building your own, as you stand or fall on your own.

I almost purchased the kit Steve and I'm so glad I didn't. You miss the opportunity to turn a envelop of well designed plans and some plywood into a boat.

I do love to plane nice wood though My favorite tool, and much friendlier than the sander

This is the first time I've used a plane and man I love it. What a tool.

Enjoy the instant gratification it is only temporary then comes sanding....

Shhhhhh. I'm not thinking about that right now.

A little progress.

the bottom is done..pictures soon.

I started to attach the side panels to the frames lastnight. That's tough.
Especially without a jig. I may build one yet. Regardless, I'll have every frame and transom in place secured by screws with equal gaps so I can check the bottom for flatness and the boat for square before I put an ounce of glue on anything. I presanded all precoated glue locations before assembly.

I'll post pictures of the dry assembly after a couple of adjustments. I'll be honest I'm having a blast seeing this thing come together. I can't think of anything I'd rather build. Boat building is awesome.

Thanks for checking in and responding.

Daniel

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:20 pm**

I surrender

Alright guys a jig it is. Actually I've already built it, but I have some questions.

But on thing first. Larry and Bernd please remind of this post next time you give me advice.

Let me tell what I have so far incase you have any ideas.

I have both midseat frames, the rear seat frame and rear transom temporarly screwed to the side panels. I don't have the forward frame installed or the front transom but I have a strap pulling the front of the side panels together leaving a gap about the width of the front transom.
I installed the frames mentioned above making sure that the bottom edge is completely flush with the bottom of the side panels.

My issue is ofcourse with the bottom:
O.K. fastforward I've built a jig/strongback. 10 feet long and five feet wide and it's level. I haven't taken the boat back apart yet but I have placed it on the jig and rechecked my bottoom for flattness.

This is what I have:
When both midseat frames are flat on the jig the rear seat frame is one 1/4 of an inch off the jig and the rear transom is about a 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch off the jig.

When I force the rear seat frame to the jig by pushing down on the rear transom the front midseat frame raises of the jig about one 1/4 inch and
the rear transom remains off the jig about one 1/4 inch as well.

Is this a problem?

What has me confused is that the frames are indeed flush with the bottom of the side panels so it would seem that the bending of the side panels are causing the bottom to raise up in the rear. I'm not sure I can control that. What I mean is that if I have the frames fastenedd flat on the jig and let's say I start with fastening the side panel to the rear midseat frame wont the side panels naturally raise up as I bend them to the profile of the rear seat frame and transom.

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated and I bet I'll listen.

Thanks-- Have a great weekend
Daniel

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:53 pm**

Murry wrote:This is the first time I've used a plane and man I love it. What a tool.

Enjoy the instant gratification it is only temporary then comes sanding....
Shhhhhh. I'm not thinking about that right now.
...
Daniel

You are a wise man. Enjoy getting to where you begin the sanding, and let that fuel the sanding. You see what all that sanding did for CL's OD18, with glossy paint, and if I remember right, also stickstuff's XF20. Sanding isn't to be feared... it's what gets you finished.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:56 am**

ks8 I'll admit, I had been thinking about how glossy my gf will eventually be over the last couple of weeks as I've watched Larry's final touches, but that vision is beginning fade.

The vision isn't completely gone, but it's back where it belongs. I'm really stuck on putting the gf together at this moment.

Let me explain everyone:

I had put the boat together per the plans flat on the floor starting in the middle working to the transoms.

It's my understanding that the bottom is to be flat from the front mid seat frame to the transom. Well, I wasn't able to achieve that by my method of construction.

So I built a jig flat and level. I took the boat back apart (thankful It was a dry construction) and secured all three seat frames to the jig at 90 degrees. I then installed the sides keeping them flat on the jig. So all three seat frames and the bottom edges of the sides are flat on my jig, I'm getting excited now, I've fixed my problem.

Oh Yeah. Life is Good.

So.............then I put the transom into position. The transom is quite abit more narrow than the last seat frame and when I pull the sides into the rear transom they come right off the jig about 1/2 of an inch. WHICH MAKES IT NOT FLAT

.

Am I making to big a deal out of how flat the bottom should be from the front mid seat frame to the transom? I really hope the answer is yes.

If I widen the transom about 3/4 of an inch on each side It will remain flat but I feel like that's a large design change.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:02 am**

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:08 am**

Please do not cross post.
I answered your question in the "power Boats" section.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:15 am**

Please do not cross post.

Sorry Jacquesmm it won't happen again, my intention was to only get more folks to veiw it, not waist anyones time.

After I posted it on my build thread I decided to also post in the power boat section because I knew that it would most likely be seen there.

Thanks for the encouragement guys, and don't worry I won't be giving up over a small issue.

I'll get some pics. up and keep you posted.

Daniel

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:36 pm**

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:49 pm**

No worries D2Maine, that was definately my mistake.

I'm in boat building mode, I was trying to get as much coverage as I could.

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:16 am**

Alright, it's time for an update.

I attempted Round #3 on Thursday night and it was a success

Here are a couple of pictures to help explain, the first picture was taken after Round #2.

On the right side of this photo you can just see the rear midseat frame location(the picture is taken of the side panel) . Notice that it's flat on the jig, but following the picture to the left moving aft, you'll notice the frames progressively rising off the jig. The transom ends up about 1 inch high.......Not Good.

We got it right after Round #3.

The next picture is the same as above, but with the last three frames flush on jig. Much better.

This next picture is the forward midseat frame, it's about 3/8 of an inch off the jig.....I can live with that. Thanks Larry.

Next, I measured my diaganols (left rear of transom to right side of bow/right rear of transom to left side of bow) I was 5mm out so I mounted a couple of braces to hold the bow to within 1.5mm. Good enough.

Here are the braces.

I wanted to dry fit all panels and then glue the hull without having to take anything apart, so I used stiring sticks as spaceres to accomplish that.

I then taped oneside of the gap with tape.

and then forced glue from the other side all the way to the tape.

There you have it.

I'll be working on the rubrails tomorrow after church and I'm attempting all three layers of the lamination in one session. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice with the bottom issues guys and thanks for visiting this thread.

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:02 am**

Daniel -Great !!!!!!

Your bottom is more flat as mine - I learned it the hard way (with problems).

But I solved it a little different.

I'm sure your boat will plane perfect !

Bye
Bernd

(If you work the next time with this speed you will overtake me

)

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:03 am**

Perfect

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:44 pm**

Thanks guys.

Things came up this afternoon and I wasn't able to work on the rubrial today. It'll have to be my Tuesday night project.

Bernd, if my gf looks half as good yours, I'll be proud. You're doing a beautiful job and Larry, your direction was more helpful than you know.

Until Tuesday,
Daniel

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:25 am**

Hi Daniel,

during my building I got some ideas and changes in my building -easier and with less effort and less time for it.

The changes I would made are:

- one hatch in the middle of the rear seat and mid seat
- I would buy a hatch - wide enough to put a fuel tank through the opening
- I would install my pump box in a corner of the rear - never in the middle - because of space

If you follow these hints you save a lot of time - my hatches ......a waste of time

(...every day we learn more and more).

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:10 am**

You have inspired some thought with that post, Bernd.

I have been planning to do much more that that, but I will consider your advice.

Bernd, were you planning tomake your gf unsinkable? I've been thinking of ways to do that with my build, but it does require alot of extra work.

Daniel

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:13 am**

Daniel, I'd make it unsinkable. It's not much extra work for what you gain. And if you ever intend to sell it in the future it needs to meet USCG standards, which require it to be unsinkable.

I divided each seat compartment into 2 sections with plywood dividers, then filled the starboard section of the rear seat, the port section of the center seat and the forward section of the casting deck with foam. It might add 1 days work and $100. Worth it to save a life or the boat IMO.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:00 pm**

Thanks Larry,

I wasn't aware of the USCG standard. I just figured it would be an option for a small boat. You know what they say about assumptions.

I like your method that you described in your earlier post. I had been thinking about filling the rear and midseat areas up about 6-8inches and then adding ply to raise the floor over them and then do what you did up front. Not sure if that would be enough flotation, though.

It seems like my method would make it impossible to trim the excess foam since I'd be working down inbetween the frames.

The further I get with my build I thinking more and more simple. At my rate of design change I'll end up with oar locks and a natural work boat finish.

I think for now, I'll just concentrate on getting all interior glass done and then decide my layout.

Thanks for the idea and the USCG tip,
Daniel

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:48 pm**

Murry wrote:You have inspired some thought with that post, Bernd.

I have been planning to do much more that that, but I will consider your advice.

Bernd, were you planning tomake your gf unsinkable? I've been thinking of ways to do that with my build, but it does require alot of extra work.

Daniel

About to have a unsinkable boat.......I thought about that , but I fighted with myself because of lost storage space.

On the other side there are the rules in the US with the USCG and in Germany an equal one......but I loose storage space.

My idea is to have a moving floatation device which I put into the seat when I don't need so much storage space. I remove some parts if I need more storage space.
At the moment there is now floatation device in.

Daniel, by the way don't forget to cut your frames to have an access for your drain pipes through your seats.

In my GF there are PVC-pipes in - diameter 32mm , but for a new GF
I would use half pipes - diameter 50mm - half pipes are much easier to fasten.

You just stick it to the glassed bottom with a piece of cloth/tape - in other word just glass over them .
Don't forget to roughen the PVC for a good bond. I used sanding paper with 60 grit.

Have fun

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:12 pm**

Already bought the 2in./50mm pipe for the drains.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:49 pm**

Making progress.

I've glued on the rudrail and installed the bottom using tongue depressors like I did for the sides. It really worked well, allowing me to glue the bottom in place before flipping boat. I removed all temporary screws and plactic ties tonight and things really turned out nice. The bottom is nice and flat and the chines look identical to one another.
Thanks Jacques for designing such I good looking boat.
I guess I'm ready to tape the seams, flip and start glassing the interior. I'm planning to do each section (between frames) wet on wet.

Well see how it goes,
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:38 pm**

Daniel,
Check out another build in this directory by timoub007 called "Just getting started on my gf16" I think? He did some serious customization on the rear of his 16, but he had some neat ideas on how to put foam in an area under seats and then putting flooring over the foam so he did not lose all of the storage space. Real neat ideas. Your build is going great, she looks gopopd and the work is real clean.

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm**

Thanks Robbie,

I'll be needing some good ideas when I get to the foam stage. I was planning on doing something like that under my rear seat.

progress update...

Picture of the bottom glued before flipping.

I completed my first major tape and fabric job. I picked the middle seat
area for my first, since it won't be visable.

I thought it went pretty good.

I precut my tape and cloth before starting, precoated all wood using a spreader, used a stirring stick to lay all filets, installed tape at every seam (8 pieces) and wet out, layed precut 12 oz. biax on bottom and wet out, layed 9 oz. woven on frame and hull sides (4 pieces) and wet out.
I used a spreader to wet out all glass and a 1/2 lamination roller on the glass over the fillets.

Below are before and after pictures.

What do you think?
Daniel

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:31 pm**

hull picture didn't work above.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:00 pm**

...it looks good !!!!

By the way -which temperature do you have at the moment - in Germany it is "game over" - 7Â°C.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:29 pm**

Looking good... I sure can see one of those in my garage.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:26 pm**

Your first try looks pretty close to professional to me! How are you going to improve that when you get to the experienced level?

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:24 pm**

Thanks for the compliments, but I'm sure a closer look would yield different responses.

Bernd the highs here are around 50F but we may see 60F in the middle of the week.

Can't you use fast hardener with those temps? I used medium Sunday envening and by this afternoon my work area had hardened, with lows around 32F and highs at 50F.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:52 am**

Correction

I used 6oz. on the hull sides and frames not 9oz.. Sorry.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:56 am**

Daniel,

do you know there to install the battery/ battery box? If yes, I recommend to glue at this place a additional piece of plywood to have enough depth to screw the battery holders - I bought mine a few days ago .......yesterday I had to glue this piece...

- my battery rests in the mid seat.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:58 am**

Thanks Bernd,

I'll be using a 300amp lawn mower battery for the engine and a few accesories, mine will be going in the middle seat as well.

As far as gluing mounting plates, cutting hatches and rigging, I'm planning to wait until all hull glassing is finished.
After I finish the interior glassing I'm going to glue the cleats and temporarly fasten my seat tops with screws to keep the hull square.
I'll then flip, glass the outside wet on wet (hopefully), install strakes,
install spray rail, square up my chines, and transom edges.
basically everything except fairing.

I'll then flip the boat back over, fine tune my accessory list and go shopping.

That's the plan anyway, Am I mssing anything?

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:10 pm**

Daniel,

what's about primer and paint inside the box?
About the steps.....I did it in this way:
- glassing the whole inside
- installing all backing plates
- creating my seat tops and the foredeck
- glassing the undersides of the seat tops
- glassing all hatches / both sides

after this ......here is my plan

-......primer and paint all inside of the boxes ( the next weeks)
-......primer and paint to the underside of the seat tops
-......glueing seat tops......taping, glassing, sanding
-......glassing light cloth over the rubrail...sanding
-......primer, paint all inside
-.....flipping the boat
-.....doing all outside work

-....flipping back, install elektric, rod holders....
-....time for changes at my trailer....I have to adapt the trailer to the boat because my existing boat has a deep V-hull and there are rolls for the keel installed......I have to think about a new construction.....I want to use rolls for easy slipping.....let us see.

By the way Daniel, I would first go shopping and buy all hardware. In this way you have all measure at every time you need. Think about the size of backing plates. I did it not unfortunately I had to wait sometimes to have the right measure for my backing plates.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:33 pm**

Bernd, that sounds like a good plan to me.

I did forget all painting, huh.

I'm kidding.

I just didn't have time to type every detail.

Bernd, I'm planning to use pigmented epoxy in all boxes that won't see the sun instead of paint, but I will be doing that after all other glassing and backing plates are installed. Just before I glue the seat tops in place.

Seat top Mods--
I will draw out my hatch locations with the seat tops temporarly screwed inplace. Then I'll remove and glass the tops and then cut my hatch lines that I drew when they were installed on the boat.
I'm cutting my seat tops large so that I can plain/sand them to the frames and then just round the corners at the edges. I'll be doing this step when they are temporarely screwed in place.

Does that make sense?
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:48 pm**

Off topic

What size bow eye are folks using for the gf.

Posted: **Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:07 pm**

Murry wrote:Bernd, that sounds like a good plan to me.

I did forget all painting, huh.

I'm kidding.
I just didn't have time to type every detail.

Bernd, I'm planning to use pigmented epoxy in all boxes that won't see the sun instead of paint, but I will be doing that after all other glassing and backing plates are installed. Just before I glue the seat tops in place.

Seat top Mods--
I will draw out my hatch locations with the seat tops temporarly screwed inplace. Then I'll remove and glass the tops and then cut my hatch lines that I drew when they were installed on the boat.
I'm cutting my seat tops large so that I can plain/sand them to the frames and then just round the corners at the edges. I'll be doing this step when they are temporarely screwed in place.

Does that make sense?
Daniel

I will round the edges of my seat tops then they are glued to the frames - not earlier. About glassing seat tops.....I did it a little different....glassing the whole seat top underside (light cloth) and then I cut the openings. The topside has no epoxy and no cloth at the moment. I glass and glue it then they are glued to the frames. Next step I glue/glass/tape/ it to the side panels and tape it to the frames -believe me that's very strong ......I want to have a save boat.

Please buy your hatches before cutting anything - check the size .....and then cut. Buying hatches has a lot of advantages......you don't have to mention about the hinges and you have waterproofed one. Believe me for a further building I don't spend so much time with this. Boring work.

Bow Eye......I bought mine in Kuwait then I visited my friend....I have no idea about the size. Feel free and buy what you want......for me bigger is better as too small. I glue 2 backing plates in......you know German...

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:03 pm**

Please buy your hatches before cutting anything

Thanks for the advice Bernd and yes I was planning to gather all accessories before making any cuts or drilling any holes.

Progress report--
I glassed between the transom and rear seat frame on Friday night using the same method as before with the midseat.... it didn't go as smoothly and I didn't know the school of "Hard Knocks" offered classes on Friday nights.

Bellow are the two areas that I struggled with.

1-Taping the bottom of clamping board horizontaliy across the transom (not required in plans)
I had a difficult time wetting that tape out on the bottom of the clamping board (working upside down)
--lesson learned-- should have prewet that section of tape and difficult sections in the future.

2-Problem with the 6oz. cloth I'm using for abrasion protection developing air pockets.

(also not required in plans)
I had worked the 6oz. on smaller areas up until this point but the transom was to big (for this newbie anyway) to just place a precut piece of cloth over the wet wood with the intention of pulling the wrinkles out. I ended up with areas where the weave was to tight causing the glass to left up before cured. (atleast I think that's what happened-- I'm very new at this).
--lesson learned-- roll light woven cloth over the work area.

I guess I'll just grind the air out, and since it's not a structural area of glass, I'll just fair the low spot out starting with fillet mix on the next fillet I put down.

Does anyone have any further advice for this new builder?

Thanks,
Daniel

I'll have a handle on it before I get to the visable areas, I just know it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:11 pm**

For those areas of the 6 oz cloth that won't cooperate, there's nothing wrong with using a utility knife to make some cuts in the cloth after you wet it out. These odd shapes won't always allow the cloth to lay flat, but a few carefully placed cuts can relieve the cloth and allow it to lay down without a bubble.

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:55 pm**

Thanks GK,

I'll have a knife handy on my next attempt if I have trouble.

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:02 pm**

Also, if you use a metal or hard plastic roller is easier to press the air out than with a brush or foam roller. The woven cloth tends to float on the resin and it needs to be rolled down hard.

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:57 pm**

O.K. Larry. Yeah, I've been using a spreader mostly up to this point but it was pulling the glass away from the fillet that I laid at the clamping board to transom seam so I couldn't use it with firm pressure. The harder roller would have worked great for that. Thanks for the tip.

I have a quick question concerning you midseat arrangement on your gf.

Based on the pictures of your boat it looks like you had pedistal mounts on both you mid and rear seats over you foamed compartments. How did you keep the mounts from draining into your compartments?

I'm planning to take your advice and section off the midseat and fill the side that will be used for seating, but I wanted to have some type of removable seating in that area.

The rear seat compartment will have 6-8 inches of foam on either side of a tool storage area and bilge area, so that compartment will be completley open across the entire beam.

Let me know if my question needs more explanation.

Thanks

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:02 pm**

How did you keep the mounts from draining into your compartments?

The mounts are sealed. Water can sit in them but can't run through. I thought it was a good idea but I never used a seat in the boat. Maybe someone will one day

Posted: **Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:03 pm**

A lesson I learned whilst taping the inside seams of my console: cut a 6" strip of visqueen, and after you've rolled the cloth down with a laminating roller, place the visqueen over the lamination and smooth with another roller. A little more work now, but a LOT less work later filling in the weave and sanding. It makes a super clean and super smooth lamination that's very easy to sand and or fair.

Posted: **Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:50 am**

I think everybody learned the first time a lot -and had problems

.

While I use medium harder, I learned a lot how to handle the mixed resin. Sometimes you have to hurry when the resin starts to gel.

If I have to glass something I first wet the wood - wait a few minutes until the wood soaks the resin in . After that I wait until the resin is sticky - the advantage --> the tape or fabric doesn't move and you can easy wet out.

If you glass large areas twice (two layers) , you better do it with 2 persons - but the same prodcedur as before.

When I lay tape and fillet, I sature the plywood and wait until it is sticky, during this time I mix resin with woodflour for the fillets.

Next step, the mix into plastic bags - lay the fillet - wait until it is sticky - laying the tape (careful) wet out.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:18 pm**

I hope everyone had a great Holiday.

I want to throw out a thank you to the entire board. I wouldn't beable to list all the names of folks that have helped me to this point, but I've learn so much by reading and following the builds and questions about builds that were generated from them. One builder even let me come to his home to give me some pointers. Thanks You.

I've finished the interior hull and framing glass work, so next I'll be drawing hatches and making some decisions of hardware placement and such.

I wanted to post a couple of pictures detailing how it went for me.

First up is the bow compartment (under the casting deck)

The next group of pictures where taken last night as I finished the section inbetween the casting deck and midseat.

All glass gets precut. the roll of cloth is the 6oz. I'm using for abbrasion resistance and the folded section is the 12oz. biax for the sole.

I start by just wetting the corners of the wood where all gluing will take place, for fillets, holes from construction, ect..
I found that If I wet a larger area than just the seams before laying the fillet, the extra epoxy makes a mess when trying to make the fillet pretty.
So I wet out just enough area for the fillet.

I then build the fillet at all prewet seams with tongue depressor and fill all construction holes in the section that I'm working in.

I made this to prewet my tape, which I prefer. I use less epoxy and when working wet on wet there's less change of gougeing the fillet you just worked so hard on trying to the wet the tape on the boat.
Oh Yeah, if you make one of these.......don't make it white..

kind of hard to tell when the tape is wet if it can't change colors.

Using a 1/2 inch lamination roller, I then install the prewet tape.

Next, after using left over epoxy to prewet the sole I lay the 12oz. cloth down, starting in the middle and roll it out to the sides. I roll it up like a scroll with alignment marks on the hull and cloth as a starting point and simply roll it out towards each frame.

then wet it out.

Next I roll out the 6oz. cloth. I found it much easier to use a roll of cloth when installing this much lighter cloth. I just precut a section wide enough and long enough to cover the work area and then trim it after it's down.

And there you have it.
I didn't get any good pictures after I wet out the 6oz. , but I think I've worn out my picture welcome anyway.

You know, pictures are worth a thousand words and with my current typing speed I'd say two thousand atleast.

How's this thing looking guys? Will it float......

Daniel

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm**

Murry youre glass work looks very good to me.
Never to many pic's, i've learned alot from looking
at all the build pic's.

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:35 pm**

Nice. Your german is showing again.

The alignment marks I used when glassing the long bench seat tops kept those pretrimmed edges *on the mark*. Glad you did the same and spared yourself some frustration.

If I build a glassing tray for the next build, I'll try to remember to paint it to help see when the tape is fully wet out. I think Joel just rolls it up and dips it in epoxy for some laminations, without using a tray, but my memory may be criss crossing a few threads.

Enjoy planning the hardware.

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:55 pm**

Daniel,

Like others have posted, the glass work looks great

Keep up the good work!

D

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:03 pm**

You fibreglassing is top notch, good example of how it can be done.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your work.
And bring the pictures on, the more you post the more ideas we can steal from you

Posted: **Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:41 pm**

I agree with the others, very nice glass work. Keep posting pictures, we all like pictures

Steve

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:46 am**

Clean work - please slow down with buildung speed -otherwise you will overtake me

.....

Daniel, which harder did you use? slow, medium? Which temperature do you have in your garage today?

Outside I have about -5Â°C and inside about 0Â°C - the heaters power is to less now - unfortunately.

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:20 pm**

Thanks for the compliments everyone, It's good to know that my glass work is looking O.K. and I'll try to keep the pictures coming.

I think Joel just rolls it up and dips it in epoxy for some laminations,

That sounds like a quick method.

And bring the pictures on, the more you post the more ideas we can steal from you

That's O.K. with me, If you see something worth stealing off my build, I'm sure It's been stolen from someone elses.

I've been following your phantom build and it's looking great.

Daniel, which harder did you use? slow, medium? Which temperature do you have in your garage today?

Bernd, I'm using medium hardener on most projects and I'm using medium mixed with fast when the project allows for a short pot life.
I'm working in temps. rangeing from 25-35F at night and 40-50F during the day.

A bit more progress below.

This is will be my bilge/tool compartment.

There will be foam on either side of the bilge/tool compartment with 1/4 ply over the foam. I'll have a removable lid over the bilge/tool compartment so that I can use the entire area for storage.

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:20 pm**

Daniel,

I thats a neat way to run the drains to the transom

edit: I hope thats what the pvc is for, (I assumed)

D

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:21 am**

Nice idea,

I found out that my bilge compartment is a little bit small -next time I would do it in the same way as yours.

Every time I learn a little more

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:02 am**

I really like that angles half of PVC

It will drain very easy. great idea

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:53 am**

I hope thats what the pvc is for, (I assumed)

You're correct Daniel, I'm glad you like it.

Thanks Bernd!

I really like that angles half of PVC It will drain very easy. great idea

Thanks Joel, I'm sure I read about doing that on this site at some point, I just can't remember which build.

About glassing over the pvc:

I was planning to only use one piece of 12oz. tape down the length of pipe over fillets, which would give me and inch to inch 1/2 of glass contact on both sides to the sole.
Is that enough? Or would you use two pieces overlaping across the pvc.

Thanks,
Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:09 pm**

really looks good Murry,,, I sure like the gf16

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:26 pm**

One peice is fine over the pipe. Make sure you rough up the ends with 40 or 60 grit sandpaper or and heat treat the ends so that a filet will hold to the pipe. Then put another peice of fiberglass at each end. This will give you a good seal and keep water from escaping around the filet.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:05 pm**

Thank You mecreature, I like it more and more each day.

heat treat the ends

Thanks for the reply, Tom. How hot do I need to get the pvc? I'll probably heat all edges then, basically every place there will be glue/fillet.

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:22 pm**

Not very just so you see a change in the wall structure. I use a wide tip instead of a narrow tip so that I don't cook one area while another is to cool.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:11 am**

I use a wide tip instead of a narrow tip so that I don't cook one area while another is to cool.

propane torch

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:09 am**

Yes, or a heat gun.

Posted: **Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:31 am**

Thanks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:24 pm**

I haven't set my drains on fire yet

, but I made some more progress.

At first I was going to glass the bilge compartment and the drains in one session, but I decided that it would be better if I had a layer of glass over the wood before glassing the drains in place, so I'm doing them at seperate times.

I drilled my oversize drain hole before glassing, attempting to fill and glass in the same session so when I drill the correct hole for the insert I'll have complete glass coverage.

I decided to clamp a board over the fill area so that it would cure flush to the transom. (hopefully it will work O.K.)

Since the hole was over filled, (much better than not enough) I cut a smalll relief hole in the top of the tape for the glue to escape from as I applied the clamp from inside the boat.
(If you haven't figured it out yet, this is my first boat and my first project working with epoxy

. So go easy on me.

)

I glassed in the mid seat divider.

And this is the baitwell,cooler, that will go in beside it. I used a 20 gallon brute trach can for the mold.

This is the divider under the casting deck to seperate storage from a foam compartment.

I wanted to show you what my access hole is supposed to look like before I break out the saw.

I had to much coffee in me to make this cut last night.

Thanks for checking out my progress folks,
Daniel

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:31 pm**

(If you haven't figured it out yet, this is my first boat and my first project working with epoxy . So go easy on me. )

Wouldn't know it to look at it

Very nice work. I like the baitwell idea. Pour some foam around it and it will be great. Remember that 20 gallons of salt water weighs about 160 lbs. As much as a person.

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:53 pm**

I'm a long way from a pro but it looks good from here. I'm limping along with my first and, due to a severe epoxy allergy, probably my last build. I really wanted to build the new tug!

Maybe we'll get a chance to check out each other's build someday

don

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:44 pm**

Thanks guys, I'm having alot fun building, that's for sure.

Remember that 20 gallons of salt water weighs about 160 lbs.

Wow

, that's heavy. Fortunately the capacity won't be 20 gallons,
it will only be 15 inches tall. I'm thinking it will have a capacity of 6-7 gallons or so.

As much as a person.

I wish.

I'm limping along with my first and, due to a severe epoxy allergy, probably my last build.

Sorry to hear that Donk. I wish you the best.

Maybe we'll get a chance to check out each other's build someday

I've got to head that way to pickup one more sheet of ply, I'd like to see your build very much.

Daniel

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:55 pm**

Daniel,

Your progress looks great!

I just found something you may or may not be interested in, but thought I'd let you know,
Southeastern Marine is advertising a new '08 25hp yamaha for $2199, thats cheaper than Ed's.

Keep building

The other Daniel

edit: Thats a 2stroke

Posted: **Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:19 pm**

Thanks Daniel,

That's a good deal for the 25hp. I have an electric start 15hp that I'm going to try first, but I'm sure I'll be selling it to buy a 25hp

I should probably go ahead and sell my 15hp now so that I can get the 25hp before I finish.

Maybe I will. Thanks again

Do you still need wood for your build?

Posted: **Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:14 am**

That sure is nice work, all of it. It sure is cleaner than my work. I especially appreciate the pics of the bait well, since I will have to figure something out like that if I don't find some prefab one that happens to fit well. Compared to me, your flying on this build.

In the slow lane but still movin' Dougster

Posted: **Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:37 pm**

Daniel,

I'll still need a few sheets, but I'm not in any rush.

The more I think about it the more I like that baitwell, cool

, I thought about one combined into a leaning post, but I think its a little too much for my lil 17.

Hey Dougster, you have plenty of company in the slow lane.

Posted: **Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:01 pm**

Thank you Dougster, I've enjoyed following your LB build and thanks for the lessons on the graphite. I'll be continuing that battle on the gf when the time comes. I'm looking forward to seeing your LB fliped, if I was closer I'd be there to help.

I'm glad yall like the baitwell, I'm proud of it, as it was my first fiberglass project besides my experiment with the trail kit. I made the baitwell before I even had wood for the boat

. I was able to cut it down to size today and it fits nicely in the midseat. I also layed out and cut my hatches, they turned out pretty good but I left my camera at the house. Oh well, I'll take a couple of pictures next time I'm building.

Compared to me, your flying on this build.

Hey Dougster, you have plenty of company in the slow lane.

I don't know about that guys, the gf is a much smaller boat that is easier to build. I wouldn't be anywhere near this stage if I was building one of yalls

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:36 am**

Daniel, you're welcome anytime, just give me a heads up. E-mail me at dcknapkeatlocalnetdotcom, see what we can work out.

don

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:37 am**

more progress:

Shot of the overfilled drain area that I attempted to do wet on wet with the glass work inside the bilge area.

One of the limber holes cleaned up with a dremel and some quarter round wraped in 60 grit paper. It should fair up nicely and once I put some glue on the low spot in the middle, leveling it with the glass, wood should be protected from the water moving through these areas just fine.

I'm going with three hatches on the boat along with the opening cut into the forward frame per the plans. The front opening will remain open without a hatch. The rear seat compartment hatch will be used for light storage and will give me access to the bilge, the mid seat will have two hatches. One for the baitwell and the other will be for the starting battery (300 amp lawn mower battery), fuse panel,.ect...

havn't finished shaping opening, just cut and took picture.

rear seat compartment/hatch

midseat compartment/hatches

boat from the front showing better layout of hatch placement.

until next time,
Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:06 pm**

Murry nice job on the hatch cut outs.
nice and straight and smooth corners.
what saw did you use and what blade?

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:22 pm**

Jig saw with the thinnnest bosch blades I could find for the corners.

I can't remember what tooth the blades were and I only used the thin blades for the corners. I made the sraight cuts with standard blades.

I'll repost the tooth count later this week if you'd like.

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:34 pm**

Murry you're just flying along aren't you!
Your hatch layout looks nice, nice clean cut lines. Your work in general is very neat.
I better watch out, if I don't flip my hull soon you're gonna beat me

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:14 pm**

Daniel the high-speed builder

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:50 pm**

Thanks for the compliments BassMunn, but I didn't know we were racing.

Daniel the high-speed builder

Bernd, it's just these warm temps, compared to where you live.

My joints wouldn't even move in your conditions, much less work well enough to craft that fine boat you're building.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:16 pm**

Murry wrote:Thanks for the compliments BassMunn, but I didn't know we were racing.

Definately not

Besides I've got about 200 hatches to build

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:05 pm**

Daniel,
Like topwater said, nice smooth clean cuts, you must have steady hands.

Keep on building, those sheepshead will be in trouble this year

,

The other Daniel

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:21 am**

Murry wrote:Thanks for the compliments BassMunn, but I didn't know we were racing.

Daniel the high-speed builder
Bernd, it's just these warm temps, compared to where you live.
My joints wouldn't even move in your conditions, much less work well enough to craft that fine boat you're building.

Thanks too,

my aim is to have all finished (trailer, boat.....) in may ore june - I hope...

Please pray for me and higer tmperatures...

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:53 am**

those sheepshead will be in trouble this year

Now you're talking. I like it.

my aim is to have all finished (trailer, boat.....) in may ore june - I hope...

You set a date

You are a brave man.

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:48 am**

Great job murry....

My jigsaw cuts look like I used a chainsaw...

good luck bernd1

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:00 pm**

Thanks mecreature. I'm enjoying seeing her take shape.

My jigsaw cuts look like I used a chainsaw...

I friend who happens to be a carpenter told his simple trick of keeping a thumb planted beside the guide plate while cutting. It really helps to steady the saw when you can apply slight pressure to your thumb which is serving as an anchor. Ofcourse placing your thumb closer to the business end of the saw may not be a good idea.

, but it does help to get a straight cut. A good straight piece of lumber works well too and it's alot safer.

Posted: **Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:24 pm**

You are at the sweet spot Murry.. You got enough done to have fun and even though you know what's in front of you.. this is when the disease really festers.

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:04 pm**

this is when the disease really festers.

It's been festering for over two years.. it started the day I walked through a North Carolina boat shop and building this boat had been the only medicine that touches it.

It's was way to cold to work with epoxy today, so I took some time to
ponder and cut some wood.

I started the day with figuring out how to plumb the baitwell. I wasn't able to find a nozzle with long enough threads to reach through the foam between the well and frame, so I had to come up with something. I could have made something with p.v.c, but I like the ones you can buy.

This is what I was dealing with.

I wanted this much gap for insulation because I'm planing for this baitwell to double as a cooler some days, so I decided to move the nozzle an inch closer to the baitwell using two pieces of plywood.

like this...

I then drilled through the frame and one of the blocks...

After I fill the baitwell compartment with foam I'll over drill and fill this new mounting area for the nozzle. It doesn't look the best but it should work just fine.

I also settled on my rod holder style and location. I was going to mount some removable rod holders but I couldn't settle on a style or location and after discussing ideas with Bernd, I went with a more conventional style. I also wanted them to stand off the frames a bit for reel clearance so I went with this style instead of the ones that have strap mounts. Man they look cheap, because they are.

I'm installing two at the transom as well.

and I cut all remaining cleats for the interior, hatch stops and a few more backing plates for various things.

The weather really fouled up my big plans today, Oh well, atleast I'm ready to glue some stuff.

Happy building folks, and thanks for checking out my progress.

Daniel

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:32 pm**

That's one of the things weather like this is perfect for. I made my oarlock mounts and my battery box junction boxes in similar weather. And I'm finishing up my tiller now. Soon to make the actual battery boxes, all things that can be done indoors in the warm room. What you did with recessing the nozzle mount for the bait well is very similar to my battery connector boxes. The battery leads get stowed away waterproof when batts are removed. (I'll post a picture some day on my thread). What you did is a perfectly workable solution.

For maintenance/replacement, just make sure that you can get on the nut easily with whatever you plan to use to tighten and loosen it. Since I wanted to be able to use my hand if necessary, the *big* hole on the first *plate* is almost 4 inches. Lots of *clumsy cold fingers* room in the recessed area.

Looking forward to more pictures as you finalize foam install, etc. I like the idea of getting double duty as a cooler.

Posted: **Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:31 pm**

.......nice clean work

Keep on building

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:10 pm**

Soon to make the actual battery boxes

I'd like to see those when you finish. I've been thinking about how to design the layout of my electrical hatch, but I can't find a small battery box designed for lawnmower batteries. I'll figure something out.

.......nice clean work

Thanks Bernd, how did the underside of your seat tops turn out?

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:01 am**

but I can't find a small battery box designed for lawnmower batteries.

Scratch that, I found one on-line last night that will work great.

I was able to get a bit of work done this evening, but I'd I like to know if my drains will be strong enough. Check it out below and let me know what you think. Thanks

First.... I will be installing two of these for rod storage.

O.K. and now for the drain details.

I started be sanding the drain area and the drain, then I cleaned all surfaces with acetone.

Next I used a chip brush to wet things out and I then layed the fillet.
(it's a little messy, but it turned out fine.)

I then placed to small pieces at the ends. (prewet)

Next I placed prewet tape along the entire length of the drain.

shot of midseat drain.

I only used one piece of tape thinking it would be enough but I ended up only haveing about an inch and a half of tape actually touching the sole.

Is that enough?

Thanks for the advice,
Daniel

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:45 am**

Sure seems like enough. Very clean work

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:59 am**

I think it's enough - they're not a structural part of the hull; they only need to be strong enough to stand on; the pvc itself should be strong enough for that.

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:19 am**

Thanks for the replys folks.

I didn't word my concern correctly, I wanted to make sure that I would have a strong enough bond to the sole with an inch 1/2 surface area.
Thanks.
Three out of four of them will covered with foam never to be seen again and my greatest fear would be to have on of the pipes break away from the hull seeping water into one of the foam compartments and I would never know it.

Daniel

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:18 am**

I think it's strong enough, the hull doesn't do much flexing in that location. But what the heck, if you have any concerns at all that will keep you awake at night slap another layer or 2 on her. Just a couple of feet of tape, 20 minutes, no more worries

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:23 am**

Daniel,

you told something about aceton - be careful of use - you shouldn't use it to clean the surface of epoxy.

Look here

http://www.systemthree.com/members/lite ... y_Book.pdf

you can download the epoxy book from System three....a lot of information ....i like it to read.

.....I think you become a proffesional builder..

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:14 am**

Murray, I had the same concerns prior to installation of my drains under the seat of my FS-14. So, I took a piece of pvc pipe that I had cut in half and glued it to a 2 X 4 with E-Z Fillet. After it set up I took a hammer to it and it's still there. I added a piece of tape over mine too. I honestly don't think you have much to worry about, but I'm a long way from a pro.

donk

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:45 pm**

Just a couple of feet of tape, 20 minutes, no more worries

Exactly.. The day I glue my hatch stops up I'll probably slap some extra tape on them.

you told something about aceton - be careful of use - you shouldn't use it to clean the surface of epoxy.

Thanks. I hope mine isn't recycled. I'll check.

After it set up I took a hammer to it and it's still there.

Sounds like a good test to me. I had some glue fall on the edge of my tape machine which is made from pvc lumber and I couldn't ge that off either.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:21 am**

Well, I made a mistake with my drain installation. I forgot to roll a seal coat on the bottom under the drain area to ensure that the wood was encapsulated. One thing is for sure I don't want to have any doubt that every piece of wood is protected so that it will remain a strong core and not become a sponge.

I was working the day after I installed those drains and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was planning to apply a final seal coat before setting the drian in place but i didn't.

Hoping that the one layer of 12oz. would be enough protection I posted the question in the power boat section and Shine got me back on track.
Thanks. I'm just glad I hadn't foamed the areas in.

Oh well, here's my demo. work list night. I caught it before it was fully cured, which made it a little easier.

Atleast now I wan't have any doubt about whether it's sealed well enough after Round Number 2 this weekend.

Pease learn from my mistake. 2-3 coats for encapsulation means 2-3 coats and areas that will be wet areas on my boat will see 4 coats.

Daniel

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:24 pm**

.....I'm a little bit confused......

Does this mean that I have to give to all glassed areas 2-3 coats of epoxy before I'm fairing or painting.

In other words.....if I glass for example the bottom inside the seats , sand the high spots and then just want to paint it without fairing that this doesn't work?

Question:
If I glass the inside of my boat, sand the high spots and then use fairing compound without giving 2-3 coats of epoxy that this is wrong?

OR

does it mean that only these areas should have 2-3 coats after glassing which get no fairing compound or paint?

BTW:
Is it recommended to give a coat of epoxy onto the glassed surface just before I put the fairing compound on it?

At the moment I very confused and unsafe

Could please somebody give me/us these information

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:14 pm**

.....I'm a little bit confused......

I feel your pain friend. I was confused yesterday after I posted my original concern. Let me see If I can help based on what I learned from Shine through my drain mishap.

Does this mean that I have to give to all glassed areas 2-3 coats of epoxy before I'm fairing or painting.

No

In other words.....if I glass for example the bottom inside the seats , sand the high spots and then just want to paint it without fairing that this doesn't work?

I think that depends on what your using for paint. In this case I would apply one more seal coat of unthickened epoxy. I'm planning to use pigmented epoxy inside my hatches, so I will be sealing as I paint.

Question:
If I glass the inside of my boat, sand the high spots and then use fairing compound without giving 2-3 coats of epoxy that this is wrong?

OR

does it mean that only these areas should have 2-3 coats after glassing which get no fairing compound or paint?

No the first statement isn't wrong, I will be fairing after sanding down the cotton threads and high spots as well but I'm planning to apply a final seal coat of unthickened epoxy before primer. Keep in mind that the primer will also be sealing the surface.

I believe the second part of the above question is the safest option. If youir not planning to fair I would finish with a seal coat or two to ensure encapulation of all surfaces.

The reason I pulled up my drains is because I couldn't coat the wood under the drain after I covered it and I didn't apply the final seal coar or two before installing the drain. So it could have been unprotected.

I thing it my help, if you go to the power boat section and read over the thread "rookie mistake maybe". This is where Shine helped me with my drain issue.

Does this help?

I'm sure someone else will post to help explain things to both of us better if my information above is incorrect.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:15 pm**

bernd1 wrote: Does this mean that I have to give to all glassed areas 2-3 coats of epoxy before I'm fairing or painting.

No, that would be way overkill. The glassing layer counts as one, and so would the primer.

bernd1 wrote:.
Question:
If I glass the inside of my boat, sand the high spots and then use fairing compound without giving 2-3 coats of epoxy that this is wrong?

no its fine as long as you have sanded down too much epoxy.

bernd1 wrote:.
does it mean that only these areas should have 2-3 coats after glassing which get no fairing compound or paint?

Yes, if you are encapsulating wood (with no other coating), you should have 2 coats

bernd1 wrote:.
BTW:Is it recommended to give a coat of epoxy onto the glassed surface just before I put the fairing compound on it?

Not needed

There is no reason to be concerned.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:04 pm**

Yeah, what he said.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:10 pm**

Poor horse

Posted: **Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:28 am**

.....I'm happy not to be a horse

Thanks Shine ....

Thanks Daniel.....

...once a day I know the most of this building technique

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:36 pm**

I had to recover from my drain mess up so I decided to put a good full day in on Saturday, attempting to make up the lost time.

I ended up haveing the most productive day yet.

I actually got everything done that I intended to do. That never happens to me. My to do list are usually a bit over ambitous to say the least, so actually reaching a daily goal is rare for me and I'm excited about it.

Since my wife has heard enough about this boat too last a life time

, I'll have to share the details with you folks. Sorry.

I put in a full 12 hours yesterday and this is what I got done.

-Sanded and ground down the fillets from the drain mishap. (If you have any experience with a grinder, put down the DA and grab the grinder. It makes short work of glue mounds, but be careful, you don't want to damage the cloth underneath. I finished the cleanup with my DA but the grinder gave me head start.

)
-Cut and shape new pvc drains
-Drilled out my epoxy plug for my drain tube insert.
-Cut pieces and drilled a recess mount for a baitwell light (just like the baitwell nozzle from earlier post)
-Cut and routed a piece of starboard for a mutipurpose shelf on the back of the midseat. (for switch panel,cup holder, depth finder, ect..)
-Glassed in the four new drains- wetting underneath first

-Glued the hatch stops for all three hatches
-Glued cleats under the rear seat for raised sole that will be over the foam on either side of the bilge area. (eight pieces)
-Glued mounting blocks for baitwell light.

The moral of this story for me is to make a list a stick to it. My boat work days usually look like this- build a little and ponder a lot. The list kept me focused and I got alot done. For me anyway.

Daniel

A couple pics of the controlled chaos.

Posted: **Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:08 am**

Daniel,

Everything looks good, makin' progress is always great

The wife has tried the "list" thing with me before with undesired results (undesired for her

) maybe I'll try making my own list

D

Posted: **Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:13 am**

Looks good. The wife will come back around.. LOL

Nothing like getting a lot done in one session..

I have a rental house I have been working on. I do understand the List.

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:20 pm**

The wife has tried the "list" thing with me before with undesired results (undesired for her ) maybe I'll try making my own list

My wife taught me the list method.

Thanks mecreature.

Wy wife and I are in the planning stages for an overseas trip for this summer so I had to slow down to one evening during the week and Saturdays when available. I'll get her done but my progress will have to slow down a bit.

I've gotten a coulple of things done and I have a new question.

Since my bow eye stems will be sealed in a foamed compartment, I need to get it installed before gluing down my casting deck, but I wanted to glue it down before I've finished the outside painting.

Would it be O.K. to install the bow eye after fairing with blended filler in that area so that I can continue with the interior work. I was planning to seal it with 5200 and then just fair/paint around the taped bow eye.

What do you think?

Some progress....

I wanted to make some sort of console shelf for electronics and small personal storage. So here it goes. A came up with this using starboard.

layed out design..

cut out design...
used a v groove bit for the areas to be heated and bent
used a 1/2 straight for the supports and dividers
used hole saws for cup holder, tool holder, and wire harness locations. (Got to have my coffee with me.)

switch panel location...

clamped after heating, bending and gluing...it's upside down in this picture.

I got this idea from Larry's gf and it will be mounted in the same location,
on the back of the midseat to the starboard side. I'll install the electronics on top and route the wires down into the switch panel compartment to come out into the midseat for a clean look.. hopefully.

I also finished drilling the hardware locations and I glued in the live well so that I can drill its through hull fitting in hopes to fill them all with thickened epoxy next week in prepartion of flipping and glassing the oustside of the boat.

Please let me know if you see any potential problems or forgotten steps. I welcome and would greatly appreciate any corrections that need to be made and thanks for checking out my build.

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:31 pm**

Great work. That's going to be a very nice GF

Would it be O.K. to install the bow eye after fairing with blended filler in that area so that I can continue with the interior work. I was planning to seal it with 5200 and then just fair/paint around the taped bow eye.

What do you think?

That's the best option I think. It is somewhat of a pain to mask and paint around it, but if the foam and deck is to get placed before the final outside painting, you really have no choice. I had to do that on my GF too, and with a transom eye on the OD because of baitwell foam.

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:59 pm**

Daniel, Larry said it best, that is going to be one very nice GF. Your doing an excellent job.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:03 pm**

Very nice Murry. I think I need to get me a router

Posted: **Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:12 pm**

Thanks alot Larry, Tom and Shannon.

Sounds good on the bow eye Larry.

I think I need to get me a router

Indeed Shannon. They're a great tool.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:07 am**

Keep the pictures coming. I'm starting to see it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:56 am**

Daniel,

Your rolling right along, I like your shelf

, I also noticed it a while back on Larry's GF

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:46 am**

I also noticed it a while back on Larry's GF

If something looks good on my boat, It probably came from someone else.

Some progress....

I was able to glue some hardware holes (34 to be exact,

I had no idea). I also had time to start finishing my hatch stops.

I used these tools below to wet out and fill my holes.

I built my hatch stops using 1x3's and 1x4's from SYP. I left plenty of wood in the opening to allow for cutting the radius' in the corners.

like this.... (this is the only picture I have of the stops from the top side viewpoint)

I then installed a temporary guide for my router using a sraight bit. (the large holes are from a previous method I was going to use to cut the stops that I decided not go with)

I then drew out my corners using an 18mm socket as a guide. It just looked right to me.

Next, I cut the corners with my jig saw, cleaned things up with a DA and then rounded the topside of the stops with an 1/8 th round over bit.

I rounded the bottom of the stops with a 3/8 bit.

Finally, I used an 1/8th to finish up the edge of the hatch cover.

I'll need to seal and fair everything, but it should turn out O.K.

I won't install the hinges until all final fairing and shaping are done to ensure a good centered installation.

Thanks for checking out my boat,
Daniel

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:49 am**

Nice clean work again Daniel.
How are you going to seal those hatch lids to prevent water intrusion into the hatches. I still haven't quite figured this part out yet

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:04 am**

....clean work Daniel.

BTW BassMunn,

I will stick a window gasket on the underside of the hatch - look here:

I think that works enough good for me.

Bye
Bernd

Other ideas?

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:30 pm**

Murry wrote:Thanks for checking out my boat,
Daniel

Thanks for showing us very nice

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:34 pm**

bernd1 wrote:I will stick a window gasket on the underside of the hatch
Bye
Bernd
Other ideas?

Why not simply stick to marine gaskets made for this purpose?

Posted: **Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:12 pm**

How are you going to seal those hatch lids to prevent water intrusion into the hatches.

Good question.

My hatch decision was one of the hardest planning decisions I've had to make so far with this build. I did alot of pondering about hatches.

I waffled back and forth about installing prefab hatches or making my own and after I settled on making my own. Then it was to drain or not to drain and that decision made me start to consider the prefab hatches again, until one day it hit me. IT'S A JOHN BOAT MAN..... , but your boat aint a john boat Shannon. The luxury of building a john boat is, well, it can be more simple. Your boat is more complex than my gf and I wouldn't think cutting in hatches on a phantom that weren't water proof would make much sense. As you probably would agree, based on the quality of your build so far and reading about you rod storage ideas.

The day I remembered what I was building was the day I decided not to worry about water proof hatches. I went with cutting in my own instead of buying for a couple of reasons though.
1. I like the way the look
2. I will be sitting on top of them (more comfortable)
3. I liked the idea of making my own
4. Did I mention that I like the way the look.
5. I could be more flexible with size (baitwell specifically)

It's fairly common to hear folks that have made them, say that given the chance, they would buy hatches in the future instead . You don't save much if any money and they take alot of time. Mine are more simple without the drains, so I may not be the best to ask, but I'd build them again. Keep in mind, my design only requires three.

I'm not to worried about water getting in my hatches. The electrics will be installed in such a way, that water falling from above won't get anything wet and the drain tube running through the electrical compartment will have drain holes drilled to allow water out of that hatch.

right here....

The rear hatch will drain straight to the bilge and will be used for light wait storage. If I'm fishing with a chance of rain, things that I want to keep dry will be kept in water proof storage bags anyway and when the boat isn't being used It'll be stored under a cover with the compartments empty. To be on the safe side I designed the rear hatch area to drain into the bilge quickly by creating a slight grade towards the bilge area given the freak chance I ever have water come over the transom.

In the picture below you can see the angle of the cleats along the transom, how they fall to the bilge box. The cleats on the rear seat frame mirror those.

Alot of drain moldings have been designed by some good builders on this site. Capeman has designed some nice looking moldings out of ply and Joel made some out of glass for his Aquasport rebuild that are worth looking at as well, just to mention a few. (there are alot more)

I was going to make mine out of 5/4's lumber before I trashed the idea.
like this....

Take it for what's worth Shannon, but this is what I was planning to do for drain moldings. Perhaps it will help you make your decision.

Daniel

Posted: **Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:32 pm**

Daniel thanks for taking the time to post those details, I like the drawing you posted and I hadn't even thought about the drip edge - very nice idea.

I looked at the pre-made hatch lids but I don't like the fact that they are not flush with the deck and they cost a fortune here. I can buy 2 full sheets of 3/8 ply for the price of one hatch lid

I have 11 hatch lids to make

so need to make sure I get this right, my old bass boat had a problem with leaking hatches and I swore that I would never have to sit and hand dry over a 100 crankbaits ever again

Thanks for the ideas

Posted: **Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:49 pm**

Your Welcome and good luck.

I'm sure what ever you decide to do will turn out great.

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:18 pm**

Made more progress Sunday afternoon.

I'm planning to glass the exterior of the hull next weekend so I used Sunday afternoon to prepare the hull the big day.

I have a couple of pregame and post game shots of the sanding party for you.

before the fun began....

after..

pregame shot of the bow..

and after...

rubrail detail...

You should have seen this rubrail before the shaping..

I don't own a table saw and I didnt think I would be good enough with a fence to make perfect 38mm strips with my circular saw, So I cut the wood fat intending to shape it useing a belt sander. It wasn't sure how it was going to turn out but I'm happy with it...

This is what I started with....

all ready for the glass work next weekend..

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:32 pm**

Looks good Murry, best of luck with glassing

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:24 pm**

Your rockin' right along,
if need anything with the glassing let me know, but looking at your work I'd say you could show me a few things.

D

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:01 am**

but looking at your work I'd say you could show me a few things.

Your to kind Daniel. Did you see the pregame pictures of the rudrail?

If I had the skills that you speak of, it wouldn't have required as much work to make it pretty.

By the way, don't forget that I've seen your work.

I have a friend with a table saw and I'll be visiting him when I cut the strakes and splash rails.

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:25 pm**

Daniel,

do you need some hands to help glassing? I will visit you if I get a invitation..........

.....damned I checked the distance a few minutes ago in google earth ....you are 4207,30 miles away

sorry too far

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:31 pm**

Jeez bernd your a tease

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:51 pm**

peter-curacao wrote:Jeez bernd your a tease

Peter, I never helped glassing the outside of a CS23

......let me see....

....google earth....enter.....measure.....Curacao.......who the hell what a big number......

Why do you all live so far away - I have no chance to help others with glassing.....what a bad luck

Have fun while mixing epoxy.......

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:27 pm**

I will visit you if I get a invitation..........

You're invited.

You can work on mine since it's to cold to work on yours...

Posted: **Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:05 am**

Looks great... That sanding works..

Glassing that beast will be a breeze.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:43 pm**

Thanks mecreature. Yeah, the sanding made a big difference.

Alright, it's official, this gf16 will now float.

I was able to finish the exterior of the hull today

. I won't lie, it was long day.

Pictures of the tape. Both transoms and the chine.

After the taping I installed the first layer of 12oz. cloth on the bottom, by rolling it out inbetween the tape. I then installed 6oz. woven on the sides.
(picture of the first layer of 12 oz. after wet out and first side of 6oz. before it was trimmed and wet out)

After I wet out the side cloth I rolled the final layer of bottom cloth, covering both transoms also.

Next, I'll start to lay out the strakes and rubrails.

Spring's a comin'

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:06 am**

CLEAN WOW did you ever make that gf really look good. Keep after it,

Keep on Buildin'

Robbie

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:16 pm**

real nice job

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:03 pm**

Thanks for the kind words Robbie and Topwater.

It's really cool to see the wood covered in cloth, it makes me want to do a bright finish project one day.

I didn't get to document the process along the way like I wanted to, the clock was ticking and I was trying to keep moving, but one thing I did that I thought was worth mentioning was the way I prewet the long sections of tape.

Each piece was about 16 feet long, so after I premeasured and cut them, I then rolled each piece seperately onto short sections of empty fiberglass rolls. (fishing rod shiping tubes work great) As I wet out 4 feet sections at a time, (that's how long my tape wetting machine is) I tranfered it to another tube until the whole piece was wet and then I just rolled the wet tape onto the boat. Worked like a charm.

I prefer to prewet my tape so that I don't deform my fillets while trying to wet out the tape. The method above worked like a charm, for me anyways.

Thanks again for the compliments above guys.

I'm having a blast
Daniel

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:19 pm**

Congrats on the milestone!

Now, as Yoda might say....

Fairing now, do you must.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:05 am**

Now, as Yoda might say....

Fairing now, do you must.

I can put it off a little bit longer.

I was able to get my strakes cut and glued up last night.

After I cut them at my friends house I roughly marked their location so that I could sand and wipe down with acetone (non-recycled). After the wipe down I marked my center line and then maked the inside line of their location off the center line.

I then cut some braceing to hold the strakes in place as the glue dried and after prewetting the wood with unthickened epoxy I just glued them up.

Since the hull wasn't completley level, I taped this brace in place along the backside of the hull to keep them from sliding until the glue set. (it was cold so it might be awhile)

There we have it, it wasn't to bad. I'm planning to do some final shaping after there set.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:04 am**

Looks great Daniel! Runners look real good. Are you going to cover them with tape?

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:35 am**

Looks great Daniel! Runners look real good. Are you going to cover them with tape?

Thanks Larry, and yes, I am planning to cover them up with tape after shaping.

I haven't decided on whether or not to just cover the strakes only for abrasion protection, or to tape them to the hull for extra strength as well.

If I only cover the strakes, that would leave my bottom much easier to fair, but I don't want my strakes coming off either. I keep picturing the strakes coming off that phantom 22.

(I can't remember the builders name, I belive he's out of Warenton, VA) He had to go back and tape them to the hull and I don't think it was builder error based on the quality of his work.

If I tape them to the hull that kindof defeats the purpose of laying the cloth inbetween the tape like I did, because I'll end up with a highspot at the strakes form the extra tape anyway.

What do you think I should do? I'm not scared of faring, but I would rather not create the extra work for myself unless I needed it.

Thanks in advance for your input

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:08 am**

I'd tape them to the hull. One strip of 6" tape will cover and secure them. It's no problem to feather the edges of the tape to fair it in.

The bottom does some flexing, I'd want them well attached.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:15 am**

On the other hand I did read stories here from strakes that where laminated with tape and after the wear of time did delaminate, so whatâ€™s the best thing to do? I didn't tape my (hardwood) strakes

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:22 am**

I taped mine and they are still well attached after 4 years.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:37 pm**

Thanks for the input gentlemen. I think I'll tape them in for the extra strength.

Peter, I used Southern Yellow Pine for my lumber.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:08 pm**

Daniel,
The boat is lookin' real good, I like the lil' jig you made to keep your strakes straight while gluen'

cool.
I think you've made up your mind, but yeah I'd tape them down, if you sand that edge good it shouldnt be too bad to fair.

kinda chilly in the shop last night wasn't it, brrrrrrr

I can't wait for summer,

The other Daniel

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:30 pm**

I've got 3 layers of biax around and over my *beach bumper*. Then faired the biax on the sides of it. I expect to have to reseal gouges now and then, but wanted it very integral as part of the hull. Permanent. Some builders think of strakes or false keels as sacrificial. I went the permanent route. Further strengthens the hull at the bow too. I used wood flour as the fillet material... not microballoons. It is a structural component now even if not needed in the plans.

I faired the tape edges before the rest of the hull bottom. I found it easier to make it a two step thing. You've got to at least fill the weave in between the strakes anyway. Fairing a tape edge will just mean a little more fairing goop and sanding. Like lots of these little sorts of things, you'll be glad you did afterwards, but it will take some extra time to fair those edges. Compared to the whole build... an extra couple of days? Just be wary of how many *extra couple of days* you might add as you proceed.

Your hull is looking good glassed and straked.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:29 pm**

First sorry for the little hijack, but Iâ€™m confused when I asked Jacques how to do my strakes he told me hardwood no tape, now everybody is telling tape them

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:23 pm**

First sorry for the little hijack

No hijack here, Quite frankly, you and anyone else can jump in this thread when ever you feel the need. I mean, that's what it's about, right. I need the help most times, always appreciate the help whether needed or not and try to help when I can. When conversations bring out questions, concerns or cunfusion in general, they need to be brought to light so that we can all learn or atleast iron it out.

In my opinion there isn't a better place to talk about a particular question, concern or confusion in general, than where it started.

Which in this case, is right here.

As far as this topic and question. I haven't the first clue.

Based on what I've read and learned thus far, there are alot of different opinions on this matter. Like ks8 wrote. some builders consider strakes, runners, ect... sacrificial. After the different responses, I called and asked my brother what type of lumber is used for the runners on the boats he has worked on (Carolina built sport fishers, a large part of being a mate is boat work) and he said juniper or teak.

I understand Juniper to be very soft, but it's very flexible, very resistant to moisture and splintering. Teak on the otherhand is very hard and some builders perfer that species. (atleast I think that's correct about those species) When I asked him if they are glassed or not, he said sometimes. So basically, after our converation it's as clear as mud to me.

when I asked Jacques how to do my strakes he told me hardwood no tape

If Jacques reccomended that to you, I'm sure it will be just fine.

Daniel

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm**

Okay thanks for that Iâ€™m reassured now
Concerning the jump in this thread and your opinion about that, I feel the same way about my thread everybody can jump in

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:19 pm**

Like ks8 wrote. some builders consider strakes, runners, ect... sacrificial.

I prefer to consider every part of the boat permanent. Zincs are sacrificial, skegs and runners are not, IMO.

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:31 pm**

I spent some time tonight enjoying the latest details of your build. Nice work! The glass work looks very clean and nice attention to detail. Continued good luck on your build....

Richard

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:29 pm**

The boat is lookin' real good, I like the lil' jig you made to keep your strakes straight while gluen' cool.

Thanks Daniel, I'm sure I saw that used during one of my late night training sessions here on Bateau2. If I could remember who, I'd give them the credit. Yeah, it was cold for sure.

Like lots of these little sorts of things, you'll be glad you did afterwards,

For sure Ks8, I want to know that she's been built right, not wondering if it will hold up. I'll be taping those strakes in, maybe not three layers though.

I prefer to consider every part of the boat permanent.

I totally agree Larry. I don't know much, but that makes sense me.

I spent some time tonight enjoying the latest details of your build. Nice work!

Thank You very much for your kind words Richard. I'm haveing alot of fun and I'm trying to make it as nice as I can. My goal is to have it shine as well as it functions. It wasn't designed to be built ugly.

Daniel

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:25 pm**

...clean work Daniel,

the only thing that made me ruminative was the glassing work at your side panels.

If I looked right, I saw at the pictures that you didn't overlap the chine with the cloth of the side panels - I think you should overlap a few inch....look point 10 on the drawing.

What's about your floating foam - did you install it?
If yes, in which parts and how much did you install?

Keep on working.......

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:42 pm**

If I looked right, I saw at the pictures that you didn't overlap the chine with the cloth of the side panels - I think you should overlap a few inch....look point 10 on the drawing.

Thanks for being concerned enough about my boat to speak up Bernd1, but I think I'm O.K.

This is the lamination schedule that I went with. I have everything the plans call for, but I added the 6 oz. side cloth and the 12 oz. in between the tape. I didn't see a need in bringing the 6 oz cloth around the chine.

Am I correct?

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:51 pm**

After I posted that Bernd, I realized what you were refering to.

In the picture you're refering to, the main bottom cloth overlaps the tapeing by a couple of inches. If this is what you're talking about?

I don't think that it's possible to have that kind of overlap using one piece of cloth which is what's intended to be used on this bottom. (if you calculate the amount of cloth to be used)

You would have to use two pieces of wide cloth overlaping in middle of the bottom to achieve that much overlap.

Hopefully the designer will see this post and respond. I don't want to make that kind of mistake. Hopefull that much overlap was suggested to ease fairing.

Is that what you're refering to?

Daniel

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:08 am**

Yes, Daniel

thats what I mean - probably you have to overlapp two pieces in the middle to have enough cloth for the side panels.

Larry told me a long time ago that he butted two pieces in the middle to have enough for the side panels to overlap. Then he covered the bottom additional with one piece an only a few inch to overlap the chine.

Let us see what Jaques says.....

Well, I think the way you did is strong enough....

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:08 am**

Well, I think the way you did is strong enough....

I hope so.

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:36 am**

Murry wrote: I hope so.

It is.

Save the "hope" for Obama, build your boat with what we know works.

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:39 am**

Excellent.

Thanks Joel.

I'm moving on then.

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:08 am**

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:12 pm**

What's about your floating foam - did you install it?
If yes, in which parts and how much did you install?

Sorry Bernd, I forgot to answer this.

No, I haven't done the foam yet. It should arrive on Monday and I hope to be ready to pour in a week or two.

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:58 pm**

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:13 pm**

True hope ought to be a good thing. There is always the hope that those who hope to speak so highly of hope will begin hoping in true hope, hopefully.

I've always seen it as essential, and it is, but hope has no legs... it can't stand on its own.

Uh-oh... I doed a bad ting... sorry...

Do we get to see a picture of the strakes taped?

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:36 pm**

There is always the hope that those who hope to speak so highly of hope will begin hoping in true hope, hopefully.

Well said... In other words. Pray for the leaders of this nation. I like it..

Do we get to see a picture of the strakes taped?

Ofcourse, I just haven't had time to do boat work all week and I'll be out of town this weekend. Although, I've prepared my lovely bride for two week nights and a full Saturday next week.

We'll see how that works out.

Have a great weekend.

Posted: **Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:10 pm**

I had a chance to shape my strakes this afternoon and as soon as it warms up I'll cover them with 12 oz. tape.

I wanted to post some pictures to make sure the front and rear profiles would function O.K.. I'm happy with their shape but please let me know if I need to change them in anyway. Thanks

Picture of front view....

rear view....

and one from the transom...

What do you think?

Do you think the shape from the front will be O.K.?

Later this week I'll get some glass on those strakes and put some thickened epoxy around the chines and rear transom to sharpen them up.

Thanks again for ckecking out my progress.
If you have any advice for me, don't hesitate to respond and If you have any questions, I'll do my best.

Posted: **Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:37 pm**

Very nice work Murry. Very clean. The flow in at the front and back looks good. From what I know about surfboard fin design, the smoother the curve, the easier water flows around it and there's less chance of turbulence. I think they'll work great! And I agree about covering with glass. Make em solid

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:38 am**

I like em', the shape looks good,
just make sure you have enough radius on em' so the tape lays good, and rock on'

Daniel

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:45 am**

Looks good.......

I wish I could work at my boat.......damned temperatures outside...

Bye
Bernd

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 pm**

I like um too. Kept them out of the middle and you will get twice the bite..

should track great at idle speed too. I bet it doesn't slip one bit in turns..

again I sure like these boats.

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:23 pm**

Good job and that the first time I remember having a bit of trouble with mine, at the end I did change them a bit because I didnâ€™t like them, yours look great imo

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:04 pm**

Thanks for the compliments guys.

I was real happy with the way they turned out, but I want them to work as good as they look and since I didn't get any objections on their function, I'll move forward with the glass coverage.

And I agree about covering with glass. Make em solid

That's the plan Fonda.

just make sure you have enough radius on em' so the tape lays good, and rock on'

Daniel, they aren't as sharp as they look in the picture, so hopefully the cloth will lay flat without any problems. We'll see how it goes.

I wish I could work at my boat.......

You will be building before you know it Bernd, and when you do, I know your work will be inspiring as it has been.

again I sure like these boats.

You need to build one already

at the end I did change them a bit because I didnâ€™t like them

Mine aren't finished yet.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:54 pm**

Last night didn't go so well.

I tried glassing my strakes and they were to sharp.

You were right Daniel.

I'm not sure how much air I'll need to grind out, but I'll post the details after working on them Saturday. (it would have been nice to have two pieces of angle iron tape with packageing tape to place over them while curing. I didn't think of that until this morning.) After working with the wet tape for about an hour last night I gave up.

I was able to install a damn across the transom and down the chines the length of the strakes and get that filled, though. I'll square those edges this weekend.

I also had my first bout with the blended filler. I mixed and applied a slurry on the bow as I need to get my bow eye permantly installed before I can foam and glue down my seat panels and casting deck.

The blended filler really goes on nice. I like it

I'll post some pictures this weekend.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:40 pm**

I'm sorry to hear that but same as I and others you find a solution and that night is behind you before you know! After that you be a happy boat builder again

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:57 pm**

Murry wrote:
The blended filler really goes on nice. I like it

Me too, have had great luck with it, fairly easy to sand or trim with a paint scraper, thicken more and it wont sag on the verticals. Don't forget to seal again after fairing with unthickened epoxy

Daddy

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:06 pm**

Don't forget to seal again after fairing with unthickened epoxy

Thanks for the help Daddy. Primer is fine to use over blended filler, right? Or were you suggesting the need of using unthickened epoxy over blended filler and quick fair before primer?

Daniel

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:57 am**

if the primer is epoxy based,like the S3 yacht primer,it counts as a seal coat,otherwise you will need to seal coat the fairing with epoxy.
Steve

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:43 am**

What Steve said, that's what I did on my last build

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:04 pm**

If you graphite the bottom, that counts as the seal coat as well.

Posted: **Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:29 pm**

That's what I was thinking. Thanks to all of you for helping to clear that one up for me. It doesn't take much to upset the sea's of my shallow pool of boat knowledge.

A couple of pics of the process to sharpen the chines and transom. I'm going to start sharpening the chines right around where the strakes start.

I know this process may be bit of an overkill for a boat like the gf, but I want to do as much and learn as much as I can on this build, incase I need to do it again oneday

. Besides the end result may end up helping the performance of my hull at planeing speeds.

Right

I used epoxy thickened with woodflour and chopped glass.
Picture of damn set up around the boat to do it all in one shot.

Damn removed from transom after the cure

Picture after I trimmed down the transom with plane.
I still have alot of fairing to do, but It'll be nice when I'm done.

Back to my strake issue.
Just like I feared, I had air all the way down the strakes. I guess they'll be getting two layers after all.

I'm not giving up on glassing the profile that I like and I don't want to dull them down so the glass will lay flat just to build them back up again.

I'm going to use a piece of outside corner finishing nail strip with foam and packageing tape on the inside to maintain pressure on the glass until the cure.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:50 pm**

The sharp transom and chines will make a big difference, you'll be glad you did that. Looks good!

Posted: **Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 pm**

The sharp transom and chines will make a big difference, you'll be glad you did that.

That's good to hear. I wasn't sure if it would make much of a difference on small boats.

I was able to bust into the foam this week and man was that cool.

I started by drilling out my epoxy plugs and mounting my bow eye, once the 5200 cures I'll get the front compartment foamed as well.

In the picture below you'll notice a slight gap in between the bow eye and the bow. Since, I've decided to get all my construction done before fairing the boat I did this to allow for fairing and paint build up.

To deterimine how much gap I needed, I layed a sraight edge across the high spots to deteremine how much gap I had at the bow eye location. I had about a 1/32 of an inch so I used one washer per stud as a spacer. That should be plenty.

It's not going anywhere, I used a 1/4 piece of aluminum for a backing plate bolted through a one inch thick front transom. (I doubled the bow up)

And the foam!

I installed the trashcan (the one I used for the livewell mold) back into the livewell to support it while the foam expanded. The trash bag was to keep the foam from sticking to the trashcan.

Well she won't sink, I ran out of foam!

I ate up a two gallon kit and I haven't even started to fill the bow area. I wish you guys could feel how solid this baitwell is. I like it

The foam really firms up nice when cured. I'm going to glass a piece of 12 oz. tape aroud the top to make a lip to glue the seat top to.

It'll be sealed tighter than a drum.

I'll post a picture or two to better explain it after I've done it.

I'm happy with my layout here, but I've wasted some space with the size of my foam compartment in the middle seat.

If I could do it over I would have another storage compartment on the port side of the baitwell that mirrored the starboard.
Oh well, it is what it is. Maybe someone will learn form my oversight here.

Here's how the rear seat area turned out.

and with it trimmed up after a couple more pours.

I purchased a two quart kit locally to try and finish it up tomorrow night.

We'll see how it goes.
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:57 pm**

Well poured a 2 quart kit tonight and still not finished.

Did I mention that this boat will never sink. I was hoping to be able to sink it, if it was to ugly to look at, Oh well

Another 2 quart foam kit and I'll have it done.

I was able to drill and dryfit my baitwell accesories this evening so I thought I'd share it with you folks. I should be able to angle the nozzle slightly to creat a nice circular water flow.

I also finished glassing my bilge/tool storage divider in place. The rear portion of this compartment will be soley for the bilge pump which will be mounted on a bracket allowing it to sit just off the bottom(this boat doesn't have a sump so I'm trying to get the pump as low as possible), the front will be for tools, spark plugs ect. I'll probably seal them up with my "foodsaver" te keep them dry. There will be a removable lid over this compartment to create a nice wide flat storage area for life vest, throw cushions, paddle, anchor light, and what ever else and can fit. I'll try keep the things in this compartment lower weight items.

A couple more odds and ends and I'll be ready to coat my compartments with pigmented epoxy.

Good luck with your own build or planning your first one,
Daniel

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:30 am**

Murry, looking good. Your bait well is coming out nice. I don't see a drain to empty it out and get all the scales and crud out. Your making great progress and that extra foam is a good thing, make her nice and solid and quit.

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:21 am**

Thanks You Dog,

There's an epoxy plug through the bottom that will be drilled for the baitwell drain.

here it is before I filled it...

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:24 am**

Looks real good. I assume this will be a closed, recirculating system? Or does it have a fresh water pickup?

Posted: **Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:31 am**

Thanks Larry,

Yes, I'm keeping it closed for now. I'm planning to fill it with a bucket (I always carry a cast net and bucket when I fish anyway) and I'll use a stand pipe to maintain water level.

I may plumb a fill line later out the starboard side that I could use at rest but I'll probably leave it alone.

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Murry's gf16

Murry's gf16