Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:33 pm**

Hi All,
I have been kinda working on the P19 for a few weeks now as seen in some other post but with the weather being off and on here in Michigan so has my boat building and fishing but here's where I am to date.
I started with drawing everything up in CAD for the build of the hull so we could CNC the wood, it's has been a learning experience if anything, we cut the transom, clamping boards and bottom so far and they turned out perfect but I have decided, after we are done with the sides, that's all that will be cut on the CNC machine for now, between having to haul the wood an hour away from my house to the CNC shop, cutting a few pieces of wood and then re-loading the wood and driving back home it's just too much hassle, besides that it's taking some of the personal aspect of cutting it myself away, sounds weird but I like that one on one with cutting the wood myself, not to mention the CNC cutting was painfully slow because we only had cutters made for cutting steel. I should also mention here that my daughter's boyfriend really knows his stuff and when he gets his own CNC machine set-up with a 4 X 8 table and a wood cutting cutter we will be able to fly through the next phase or boat we decide to do.

I finally got the frame together and all aligned after some challenging moments and thoughts of what did I get myself into but all is good now, well almost,
I don't know if you can see it but at the front of the outside stringer the bottom of the frame does not line up with the bottom of the stringer???
I'm not sure where I went wrong but I'll crunch some #'s tonight and see what I come up with.

Next I will lay the CNC cut panels on the frames and see how she lines up.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:54 pm**

Looking good Joe... thanks for posting the pics.

-Mike

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:43 pm**

Very Nice! I look forward to following a P19 build...

Matt

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:07 pm**

Great start Joe

That's some serious looking machinery

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:49 pm**

CNC cutting was painfully slow because we only had cutters made for cutting steel

Even when you have the right cutting tool, speed is limited because of heat. You can run a stream of coolant on metal, but slowing down is about the only way to keep rotary wood cutting tools cool.

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:45 am**

Agree with Gary you have to slow down with a CNC wood cutter to make it work well. Instead of 20,000 rpms your down to 8-9000 rpms. To slow you'll be leaving burned marks. A metal cutter can be a lot slower depending on the thickness of what it is cutting.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:55 am**

Lools great Joe, and I'm looking forward to seeing it come together.

What happen to that professional crew you had.

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:39 am**

Looks great.. That is one huge boat.

I like the shot from the transom you can see to bottom already.

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:48 am**

fantastic machine

For those rough cut flute bits you need to run slow enough RPMs to allow the chips to get clear. There are various calculators for RPM and cutting speed, but we have found that the wood speci (density) also is a significant variable.

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:55 pm**

The CNC machine is pretty much retired from any actual production work so they didn't mind us setting up a jig for cutting plywood, how would you like to have one of those in your garage! you guys are right on about slowing the RPM's down and the travel speed, we used a 1/4 dia cutting bit usually used for cutting steel, one of the workers there said it was one of the best cutters you could buy, I'm not sure what kind of special cutter it was but the tip was gold in color, Tom your close we slowed it down to 10,000 rpm's for the best results and no splinters.

Hey Murray, I had to let my crew go they were fun to have around for awhile but they were smoking all my cigarettes and drinking all my booze!

I hope to get the bottom and side panels spliced together this weekend and try a dry fit but only if the weather sucks, I still might have a couple of weekends before I have to pull the OD16 out of the water and perch fishing is great this time of year, that is as long as the duck hunters don't take my head off!

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:58 pm**

Got a little work done this weekend on the P19, finished cutting the side panels on the CNC machine, I was way off on the rpm's, we were turning 2500rpms @ a feed rate 10" every 2 ½ minutes in order not to splinter the plywood.

I splice the bottom panels together and temporarily place them on the frame, more or less just to get them out of the way so I could splice the sides together, I was able to do the lower sides but it looked like the weather was turning nice and I think my OD16 was getting a little jealous of all the time I was spending in the garage with another boat so I went out fishing.

BTW: I made what I hope is a small mistake when splicing the lower sides together but if no one can see it from the pictures I think I'll just let it go and deal with it later.

Kind regards
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:24 pm**

That sure is a pretty OD16

Big boats looking good, just fix it and move on

Is it just the camera lense, or does the rear portion of the bottom have a hook along the keel?

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:35 pm**

Joe, glad to see that you are boat building and fishing

Is that a thunderstorm I see behind your OD in the pic

Good luck on your boat and say hi to Janet from Sandi and I. Hope to see you in Boca Grande next year....

Richard

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:03 pm**

I can't tell dimensions very well from the pictures, but it looks like the sum of the two side panels just adds up to the length of the bulkhead sides. The upper side panel is supposed to overlap the bottom panel by a several inches. If the former is true you are working with an earlier set of drawings that had the dimensional mistake. I hope for your sake I am just imagining this. (You can see the whole story by starting with my post of March 10, 2007 on the P19 side panels and following the discussion until the panel drawings were changed in late March.) Otherwise, go for it. The next few weeks are very rewarding.
As for possible hook in the hull, just shim on top of the stringers until everything is dead flat before you get serious about taping the joints.

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:00 pm**

Wow, Eric I read your post and had to go out and measure right away, I'm good with 6" of overlap.

I just put the fiberglass splice on the wrong side, I had it all laid out on the floor and was reading the building notes and they said to put the splice on the outside of the lower and upper sides so I hurried and flip them over and put on the splice, sat down in my thinking chair and noticed I put them on the wrong side, ha, too late.

Good eye Larry, I have to adjust the stringers under the bottom ply yet but it's not nearly as bad as the picture show's it.
I love that OD16, Richard we were heading out to do some night fishing in the river for walleye, it was great weather all day until we got to our destination and that storm came out of nowhere, we pulled up to someones island to find shelter and drink a couple of beers until the storm blew over, never did get to fish, but that's okay we had a blast driving home in 3 to 4 footers and a good reminder of why I'm building the P19, we got our butts kicked but the OD16 held up just fine.
Man, I really want to go to Boca Grande but just don't know yet, soon. Tell Sandi we said hello.

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:15 pm**

Your OD is pretty Joe.

I can't wait to see your P19.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:27 am**

Sorry for the false alarm. That extra hull work is forever burned into my memory.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:48 pm**

I didn't quite understand your comments on the splices. Just make sure that the fiberglass splices near the bow include the outside of the panels. Those pieces are under a lot of stress due to the hull shape. You will not get a fair curve if the panel does not have a lot of strength at the splice. It is fun watching another P19 come together. You will be the first to post pictures of a hull the way Jacques designed it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:05 pm**

Joe isn't that typical midwest/Great Lakes weather.

I have never been out on the lakes when it hasn't changed for either the worst or the better.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:25 pm**

Eric, I put the fiberglass splice on the inside of the lower panel, it was supposed to go on the outside, I don't think it will be a big deal? I'm glad you are watching my build, I'll try and document it as a go along and I'll have a lot more questions.

Thanks Murray, I really like the OD16 but I don't know how to slow down in a chop and end up really hurting after a day out on the water and as Tom pointed out the weather seems to catch me off guard way to often, the bay I live on is called choppy Anchor Bay for a reason, I need a "V" bottom!

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:39 pm**

Nina requires the fiberglass splice on both sides. I'd think you'd for sure need it at least on the outside or you'd risk breaking the splice when bending it around the frames with no glass on the outside of the bend. Mine seemed pretty flimsy till I flipped it and did the other side. After both sides were done it was plenty strong. EricS will know better than I do though.

Says it's lookin' good Dougster

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:58 am**

Joe,
The reason for avoiding tape on the outside is so the top panel will lie nice and tight when it overlaps the bottom panel. This may work on the HM19, but it is a big mistake here. The curve is so hard at the position of that splice that it is impossible to hold it fair when you lace the hull. I know, that's how I did it. A bucket of fairing compound later I can still see a little break in the hull shape when the light is right. The best approach is probably to put tape on the outside below the overlap of the upper panel. This will give you the strength to make the bend and still let the top panel lie firmly against the lower.

Good luck.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:00 pm**

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:07 pm**

Got-it, sounds like a plan, I already taped the inside, and I'll go back and tape the outside avoiding the 6" overlap, I also mixed a little wood flour and resin and put it between the joints before I taped it, most of it probably squeezed out but it makes me feel better.
I also got the upper side panels spliced together last night.

Thanks a ton!
Joe H

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:13 pm**

D2Maine,
I didn't see your post until after I posted. What do you guys think, any advantage to what D2 is saying?

It's after 12:00, I gotta get back to work!

Joe H

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:09 pm**

I think it would work either way. I have the plans for the C21, and Jacques says that the outer (top panel) you add a full fiberglass splice to the outside and a fiberglass splice to the point of the overlap on the inside. Vice versa on the innter (bottom panel). Full length inner splice and a splice that stops at the area of overlap on the outer face of the ply. My personal feeling is that if the designer says that this is good enough then it's probably good enough

Will

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:24 pm**

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I don't see why both wouldn't work perfectly. It's builder's choice. Go for it.

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:03 pm**

I finished splicing the side panels together but I had to move the jig over to make room, after moving it back into position everything was out of alignment, I must have gotten lucky the first time because it seemed to take me forever to get her re-aligned, not perfect but the bottom panel seemed to fit real nice so I stitched them together.

Put the lwr sd pnls on but just wasn't satisfied,

So I took it all apart and put 1/2" dia PVC under each stitch and what a difference, every panel just fell into place, I have to believe the CNC cut panels & PVC made all the difference in the world, perfect fit!

Dry fitted the upr pnls, nice! Looks like a Boat!

Also got a good deal on some epoxy from Craigslist, went to look at clamps, he sold the clamps but had 2 gallons of West System Epoxy with Hardener he no longer had a use for, $80.00, not bad, especially since I just paid $85.00 the day before for 1 Gal & Hardener.

My Granddaughter & Grandson are always willing to lend a helping hand!

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:36 pm**

looks like you have it right, but you generally need a fiberglass splice on the outside of the bend, especially with the more tightly bent parts (side panels towards bow) - otherwise a splice on the inside will be in compression and could buckle. Ont he outside it will be intention and quite strong

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:07 pm**

Hey Joel,
I'm not sure what you mean, the fiberglass splice is on the outside toward the bow just as the plans discribe, are you seeing something in the pics that doesn't look right? All was fixed from my previous conversations.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:21 pm**

The bottom appears to be missing a piece of tape where the bottom panels are joined. You need a piece of tape on both sides when you join long panels, one side is under tension, the other compression. Looks good

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:44 pm**

you have it right, I was just confirming that and also offering an explanation why the splice should be on the outside

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:59 pm**

I believe that they are talking about the area circled in red

Posted: **Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:57 pm**

Thanks Joel,
Yep, you guys are right I put the fiberglass on the wrong side on that 1 bottom panel, it is on the other side so I didn't think it would make a difference, I'll throw another piece of fiberglass on the outside before I glass the whole thing, just to be sure!

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:13 pm**

Quick update,

I finished gluing the outer panels together and everything fit together pretty good, the bottom and side are extremely fair but I still have to tape and glass.

However at the front or bow of the upper panels I ended up with a gap of just over an inch, I don't think this should be to much of a problem, I'll glue, woodflour & epoxy, it together and glass over it.

I'll be ordering some tape and glass next weekend when my financier releases some $$.

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:27 pm**

That hull looks really great. The gap is nothing to worry about. It just leaves enough room for the fairing compound to make a nice shape on the bow. After 9 layers of tape and epoxy you will never know it was there.
Have you made sure the bow is pulled back as tight toward the stern as it should be? It is a surprisingly hard bend to get the curvature as designed. Cut out the bow deck panel if you need a template. Otherwise you will have some droop at the bow, like many of the boats in this forum, including mine.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:44 pm**

Thanks Eric,
I've got enough drooping going on without my boat drooping! I'm not sure on how I could use the bow deck to check for droop, wouldn't the frames be in the way? I used the bow mold and it lined up as far as coming together lengthwise, I attached the upper side panels to the transom first and bent it to the bow 1 foot at a time, it seemed to go together real nice, I wonder if I could measure from the tip of of the bow to the transom, or if I should even be concerned about it at this point?
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:21 pm**

What I was thinking was that the bow deck piece would give you the shape of the last couple feet of the hull and the desired angle at the bow. Alternately, you may be able to sight near the floor and see if the top edge of the hull makes a fair curve all the way to the bow, getting closer and closer to the floor, or tends to curve back upward for the last couple feet. A little variation here is no big deal. Several of us have proven that the boat will float whether or not the bow droops a little.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:29 pm**

What about a cable with a come-a-long from bow tip to stern. Just a little pull might lift the nose (considering her as right side up) and even tighten those side panels. Still, like Eric says, that's no big deal gap, and will disappear. Dunno if it's worth fooling with, cuz it looks pretty good to me, but I sure haven't built one. I have climbed around Eric's though, and let me tell you it's a fine boat.

Did all kinds of odd things hangin' my side panels Dougster

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:19 am**

I was looking at some of your earlier pictures. Since you are hard against the bow mold it must be pretty close to the right position. If there is nothing obvious after you check a little, I would slap on that fairing compound and go for it.

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:18 pm**

Eric, I have to glass it before I can fair it but I'm going for it, I just got in from the garage glued the front together and plug the holes I put in when I screwed the side panels together.
Dougster, I been watching your tread pretty much from the bigining, side panels and all, Oh, and I'm going to have an aluminum gas tank made for the boat.

Joe H

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:10 am**

I filled in the gaps with woodflour & epoxy mix, put in a ½" fillet on all the hard edges and I'm ready to glass, I have some time off for Thanksgiving so will see what I can get done between eating & fishing.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Joe H

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:27 pm**

Looks cool..

Nice to see another pic.

Posted: **Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:39 pm**

I made a little progress over the long Thanksgiving weekend, I managed to tape all the outside seems but I had to do the Transom twice because of air bubbles, the only difference was I used slow hardner on the chines and fast hardner on the transom, I ended up sanding it all down and re-doing the whole thing, I put more of a radius on the transom edges just to be sure, they might have been a little smaller then 1/2".

It was worth re-doing it though because it came out perfect the second time around and I feel much better about it.

Here's a few pictures of my progress.

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:20 pm**

Wow, that's real neat work. I never quite seem to get it that nice, but then I'm used to me by now. I have noticed it's usually worth it to do over if you're agitated over it. Always a good feeling to make it better. 'Course there's that good 'nuff point of view, but it's a risky path. No risk for you up on that high road you're travelin'

Watchin' it happen Dougster

Posted: **Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:53 am**

Thanks Dougster, beleive me there are plenty of good 'nuff area's that only the builder know's about!

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:00 am**

Very neat work Joe. I agree; make sure it's done correctly now and no heart ache in the future

I'm currently in the midst of grinding down and cleaning up an area that I did a "quick job" on a few months ago right before I flipped my boat. It'll end up costing me an extra 10-15 hours to do what should've been done right the first time

Live and learn.

Will

Posted: **Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:12 pm**

Hey Will, don't know if I can make it any shinyer but I'll keep on fixing the f, huh, over sights.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:35 am**

Joe,

Looks great!! I'll be chatching up with you soon

I only hope I can be that neat as you.

I know with system 3 epoxy you can mix slow and fast to make a medium set. So you have time to glass, but it cures quick enough to sand and keep production going. I did that with my previous build and it woked good.

Andrew

Posted: **Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:12 pm**

Joe your boat is looking great

Nice clean work and great pics as well. Keep up the fine work and we hope to see you in Boca Grande in the Spring....

Richard

Posted: **Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:35 pm**

Thanks Richard and Andrew,
I was supposed to go oversea's for work next year but no one is saying much of anything about next year, we are scary slow so I'm just laying low, if all works out I'll see you guy's in the spring!

I have more questions about my build so see ya in the power boat section.

Joe H

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:03 am**

That is a really neat taping job Joe. I did not start posting until after I had painted the hull, partly to give me time to fair over the mess I made along the way. Hope you can keep going all Winter like that.

Since you are soon to be adding the skeg, let me comment. One problem I have with the P19 handling is its ability to scoot sideways in the wind when you are creeping up to the dock. Admittedly, most of my previous experience was with well-keeled sail boats, so I noticed the difference immediately. I would make sure your skeg is at least as large as the plans call out. I made mine a bit shorter and have regretted it ever since it hit the water. In fact, I might have made it 30% deeper and been happier in the Maine winds. The boat has a fair amount of windage for its weight and needs all the help it can get when you are barely moving. At speeds of 6mph or higher, the tracking is great.

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:48 pm**

Thanks again Eric, did you use a strake? I still don't know if I'm going to.
I couldn't help myself so I drew up another picture.

Joe H

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:57 pm**

Joe,
I did not consider any strakes, partly for the cautions mentioned by Tom. I had not settled on a trailer at that point and did not know where the bunks, or rollers, or whatever, were going to hit. I doubt they will add as much for a V hull as for the dory designs like the HM19.

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:27 pm**

Joe, you sure draw cool pictures

I think I'd leave off the strakes and install a larger skeg.

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:19 pm**

Hey Larry,
Yeah, no strake and a little bit bigger skeg, that seems to be the general consensus.
It's amazing what can be done on CAD these days,we can simulate the entire build of a vehicle and set it in any environment so it's like you looking at a real picture or movie, almost as good as computer games! ha ha

Joe H

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:22 pm**

Joe I'm just the opposite. With a v-hull you don't need a skeg as much. You have a 10 degree V. On my C17ccx I'm going to go the same way that the C19 is setup and go with four strakes and no skeg. The C19 has only an 11 degree deadrise. First the skeg adds to the draft as it is not included in the draft numbers. Second with a V hull a 3/4" peice of lumber is not going to do any more for you than 2 3/4 peices of strakes. 3rd every boat I have had with a skeg I end up replacing the skeg or repairing it to d**** often. 4th I am going with a true reverse chine so that they will help with the steering also. That means attaching a peice under the hull instead of beside the hull. I was a little surprised to see your change to that in your present drawings from the previous ones.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:10 pm**

3rd every boat I have had with a skeg I end up replacing the skeg or repairing it to d**** often.

Tom, come on, how many power boats have you owned with skegs? What kind of boats were these, specifically? How many production boats even have skegs? I've never even seen a production V hull boat of this size with a skeg. Can you show me one? Jacques told me that all of them would have skegs, if they could figure out how to produce them in a mold.

A boat with a skeg behaves better than one without, and strakes are not much help in tracking or lateral drift. And if you build it tough, you'll never have to replace it. I'm confident that mine will last as long as the rest of the boat, even banging oysters like I do.

Posted: **Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:18 pm**

TomW wrote: Second with a V hull a 3/4" peice of lumber is not going to do any more for you than 2 3/4 peices of strakes. 3rd every boat I have had with a skeg I end up replacing the skeg or repairing it to d**** often.
Tom

Not sure about that. The strakes are at a shallow angle to the water flow in a sideways drift. The skeg provides much more lateral resistence to water flow. I would think the strakes would be good for tracking without impacting draft, if that's important. A skeg provides tracking and lateral resistance at the cost of added draft.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:04 am**

Stephen the less the deadrise the more important the skeg is. Your OB19 only has 7 degrees of deadrise so a skeg is much more important. Joe and my 10 and 11 degrees of deadrise is larger and can be done with strakes and proper reverse chines. A skeg will help some but is not as critical as on your boat or the 6" skeg on an OD18. It all depends on the boat the and the deadrise whether a skeg is required or optional. A skeg will never hurt a boats perfomance unless draft is important, I'm just not crazy about putting a 3/4x3/4 peice of wood on and then spending the money to put a peice of aluminum on it when I know that it can be replaced by two strakes 1x1x1 1/2 roughly.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:30 am**

A skeg will never hurt a boats perfomance unless draft is important

I doesn't change the running draft. The engine foot will always be lower than the skeg and will meet the bottom 12 inches sooner than the skeg will. It would only increase draft with the engine up, but you can't go far with the engine raised, without poling or paddling, and you ain't going to paddle that P19 very far

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:25 am**

I second Larry's comments about the draft. Maybe it is a big deal on some boats, but not on a P19. Just to drag out the discussion a little longer, here is what I ended up with. Doing it again I would have made the skeg 9-10 ft long instead of 6 ft, but probably not much bigger in cross section.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:55 am**

Referring to the picture above... that a nice size, it will really help when docking and at lower speeds.

I would not go any taller though on a high speed (planing hull). I also would not go any further forward, you do not want that skeg to become a "keel" while coming down a wave, in the extreme it could cause the boat to pivot and/or bow steer. Also, ideally the skeg will taper off towards the end, to keep the flow of water from becoming too aerated/disturbed.

Jacques and I attended a "boats behaving badly" seminar this year at IBEX where many design issues were exposed (manufactures names were protected) and discussed. There was one boat in particular where the traditional keel they had used for years (with lower powered boats) was causing alarming bow steer and the boat could spin like a jet ski if it hit a wave just right, the boat was over 30'

. They removed the keel altogether and the problem was solved.

The lecture was given by a Marine Engineer from a very well known Naval Architect Firm> He gave us all a link to a tool that can be used to predict some of these issues. If was very helpful to give a graphical representation of how changing the LCG of a boat to far forward can lead to quirky behavior.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:19 am**

Here's the skeg on mine(FS17) FWIW.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:34 pm**

Joel, what about the skeg on Nina, very deep (8") at the stern tapering to nothing at 12 feet long. I was told by the technical editor of WB magazine that it would help when coming off a steep wave but what you are saying sounds different or maybe (I can't imagine) I am just misunderstanding.

Daddy

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:19 pm**

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:04 pm**

Hey Tom, I still have the original drawing the last one is just another rendition, I just thought the 3/4 round would be an easier installation then the first design.

Here is a rear view of my old Sea Ray, I think it backs up what Tom is saying about the reverse chine and strakes but that would be hard to duplicate on my P19 and I don think it's necessary to that extreme. It goes to a V behind the beaver troll, no skeg of course.

Here's a rear view of my brother-in-laws last build, nothing right at the stern but if you look at the second picture behind Janet and Donny you can see strakes.

I have a little way to go before I have to decide but I'll go with the skeg as the design shows for now and figure out the rest later.

Hey Larry I'll see if I can make some more cool pictures, maybe the spray rail next, maybe the whole boat!

Thanks for all the fantastic feed back.

Joe

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:13 pm**

I wanna see more pics of curvaceous!!!!! Got any? That thig is awsome.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:23 pm**

Longrod

I don't know if this link will work but I'll give it a try, Mayea - Intro

Plus there's a couple more in my Gallery.

Joe H

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:51 pm**

Joe H wrote:Longrod

I don't know if this link will work but I'll give it a try, Mayea - Intro

Plus there's a couple more in my Gallery.

Joe H

http://www.mayeaboats.com/
Joe, let me know if this is wrong.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:55 pm**

That's it Sitandfish! Thanks.

Joe

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:05 am**

that boat is a work of art, amazing. No problem posting pictures of her, the more the better. I do not think anyone will confuse her with one of kits.

Daddy, I was referring to only higher speeds boats. Nina is not going fast enough o have any of those issues But, if you pushed nina say maybe twice as fast as designed, with a large keel you could encounter strange issues.

Posted: **Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:40 pm**

I ordered 20 yrds of 12oz Biax the other day, I thought I'd put on the rub rail while I was waiting for the glass to arrive, now of course I'll need more epoxy, how much epoxy and glass do you think it will take to do the bottom? According to the plans I only have to go 6" above the chine with the glass, I'm okay with that but I noticed a lot of you go all the way to the rubrail, why if the plans don't call for it?

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:10 am**

Joe to protect the wood from things that go bump in the night.

You don't need to use 12oz you can use 6oz. Or I'm going to use a slurry of epoxy and fiberglass milled fibers at a 50/50 ratio to protect the wood, 2-3 coats the other name for this is liquid fiberglass.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:15 pm**

Hey Tom,
I just looked and didn't see any milled fiberglass here, maybe I missed it or can I just make my own?

Thanks
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:29 pm**

It's under fillers here's the 4lb: http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... =E_mil_4lb I like it because you have to coat the wood anyway and mixing it 50/50 is about the same as a layup with fiberglass cloth at 50/50, without the expense and fussiness of the cloth and extra fairing of cloth. When I did the Mirror's deck it was a light white in the deep depression after one coat and a light white after two coats all over 3 coats makes another layer of depth. Dropped both a hammer and a sander on it with no damage. A quick coat of fairing on it then smooths it out unlike the cloth.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:48 pm**

Thanks Tom!

I finished one side of the rub rail and put 1 layer on the otherside.

Joe

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:52 am**

Joe

Your P19 is looking good.. I'm building a P21. I used some glassed in strakes.
I thought about a skeg and even built one but decided not to use it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:48 am**

Thanks Fastlane,
Where are you at on your build, do you have a gallery going, I'd like to see some pic's.
I hope to be glassing the bottom over the Christmas Holiday but I'm down to 1/2 gallon of epoxy and Santa doesn't know where the epoxy store is located, I'm measuring my CAD model right now to see exactly how much I'll need.

I'm still going back and forth on the skeg, strakes and chine, but I do like the idea behind the reverse chine.

Joe

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:16 pm**

Okay, I measured the area for square yards on the bottom piece (1/2) and included the 6" of overlap at CL and 6" up the side it equals 6.08 yards X's 2 gives me about 12 yard's + the transom @ 1.4 yards = 13.4 yards of 12oz biax cloth.
13.4, lets round up to 13.5 X 12 = 162 oz's of epoxy needed to complete the glassing for the bottom. I have about ½ gallon left, = 64 oz's, I'll buy another gallon today plus the hardener that will be 160 oz's,
64 + 160 = 224 ounces of epoxy, that means, even with the armature factor built in, I should be able complete the bottom without having to spend money I don't have on more epoxy, man Santa was way to generous this year.

What do you more experience laminators have to say, am I way out in left field?

Joe H
BTW: I received my fiberglass the other day, thanks Joel for the quick responce and it was nice talking with you.

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:43 pm**

Hi Joe,

Glad you got the materials quickly.

I think you have plenty margin for this, but your going to have to be pretty stingy, and the wood cant soak up too much.

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:02 pm**

Joe, your boat is looking great, I would have built one of those if I had the space. I gave up trying to figure out exactly how much epoxy I needed for a given application because I was never close with my guesses. You definately don't want to run out laminating such a large piece of cloth.

I have a question about your bottom hull panel seam. I'm refering to the second pic on page 8, the seam up towards the bow. From the pic it looks like the joint doesn't have any glass on it. Am I seeing things or does the lamination schedule call for this?

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:42 pm**

Yeah, you guy's are right, why second guess it, maybe I'll wait until I can get that 5 gallon bucket of epoxy, if I can stand not working on it all of my Christmas break thats what I'll do........

John, you are right on, see page 4,
it's so nice you take your Dad out fishing with you, even if he can''t bring the smaller fish home you know he's enjoying it, I hope my son returns the favor some day.

Joe H

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:40 pm**

Oh OK Joe I see you took care of that seam, just checking.

Yeah taking my dad out fishing is the least I can do for him after all the things he's done for me over the years. He really does enjoy it. I'm sure you're son will do the same.

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:39 pm**

Hey, it cut the front part of my pictures off, whats with that? ha.

John, I didn't fix the front splice yet but I will tomorrow, I should also be able to finish the rub rails.

Thanks
Joe H

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:32 pm**

Joe H wrote:Hey, it cut the front part of my pictures off, whats with that? ha.

Not only that, but the transom isn't drawn level. Maybe you need to put something under the right legs of the drafting table to level it up.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:34 am**

Hey Gary, maybe I can just tip the monitor to straighten up the transom.!

Fastlane, I was watching your build, I don't know why I didn't make the connection, I'll blame it on old age.
How about an update on your build, I seen your latest picture, very nice.
I like your Foxbody, maybe I should clarify that, your Ford Mustang Foxbody, I sold mine last spring (sad day) to make room in the garage and buy the plywood for my P19 (happy day).

I'm heading out to the garage to finish the rubrails, later.

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:00 pm**

Ahh too bad you had to sell that convertible.

I have two Mustang GT's, an 85 and 86 sitting in my yard just begging to put back on the road. Man I miss driving that 5 speed 302, what a fun car.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:11 pm**

I used to have a 66 with a 302. What a car! It would run 100mph in second gear. Had to sell it to pay some taxes a few years back

Probably a blessing that I got rid of it though, before my son reached driving age

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:51 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:I used to have a 66 with a 302. What a car! It would run 100mph in second gear. Had to sell it to pay some taxes a few years back Probably a blessing that I got rid of it though, before my son reached driving age

What a car indeed! My brother is doing a frame off restoration of his 67 GT fastback. 390 big block, top-loader trans with the big ol 9 inch rear.

Sorry Joe just blabbing about cars. Back to your boat, keep up the good work!

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:28 pm**

I grew up in Algonac Mich, home of Christ Craft and have been working in Detroit for the Auto industry for 30 years now, so if it ain't about cars it's about boats and if it ain't about boats it's about cars....................

I had a 67 Mustang 289, I took my wife out for our first date in it, the heat didn't work and it was the middle of winter, it was really a piece of junk but ran like a bat out of he!!, she still jokes about it to this day, there's a lot more to the story but I'll let it go at that. ha.

Yeah Larry I'll bet you son didn't think it was the right move!

I could go on and on about cars but I have to go out to the garage and make sure the epoxy for the rails went off, my wife was mixing well I was installing them, I know it's fine, just have to check.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:42 am**

Joe H wrote:Hey Gary, maybe I can just tip the monitor to straighten up the transom.!

Fastlane, I was watching your build, I don't know why I didn't make the connection, I'll blame it on old age.
How about an update on your build, I seen your latest picture, very nice.
I like your Foxbody, maybe I should clarify that, your Ford Mustang Foxbody, I sold mine last spring (sad day) to make room in the garage and buy the plywood for my P19 (happy day).

I'm heading out to the garage to finish the rubrails, later.

Joe H

Joe.. My build is coming along very nice. Getting ready to prime it with some yaught primer in the next week or so.
I really need to update my build page. Have lots of pictures but too many projects going on.

As for cars.HEHE. Before i started the boat project i raced. I have built many fox mustangs.Had a little race shop going for a few years and built cages and did chassis fab and engine work. The one you see in the garage is my street car. It runs 9.30 @ 150 on DOT legal drag radial and c16. on pump gas it runs 9.90's in the 140's all day. I got into a big accident a few years ago and wound up rolling and burning that car. I fixed it up and now we cruse around and to test and tune once in a while. It has a 306 with a Precision turbo PT-76 turbo and a carb. Its apart rite now for some upgrades. 363 stroker and a 88MM turbo. shooting for 8's in spring in street trim.

some video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9KfACOZ8HI

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:05 am**

"Horse" power

My dad has been restoring a '69 Mustang for a couple of years. It's almost there.

He also has a Fox body convertible, a '94 I believe.

Then there's cousin Bill's race prepared machine...

Bill also has a '67 coupe with a landau top that he bought from my dad a few years ago.
Sometimes, family gatherings in Indiana look like a Mustang rally.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:29 pm**

Nice video, brings true meaning to Fastlane, WOW!

"69" was a good year.

I have a link to a Ford web-sit where you can build your own Custom Mustang, it's really cool, but I'm missing something when it comes to posting links?

Here's my computer rendition: (2010 Mustang)

Back to Boats after this, really.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:07 pm**

I'll find a picture of my 66, with a 1971 boss engine. Other than fast and it looked good, it wasn't much of a car. The lights worked sometimes, same with the turn signal, wipers and brakes. It made gawdawful squeaks too, but it sure was fast

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:01 am**

I need to test drive a new Mustang.

Larry, up until this last one, dad would have told you that all of those characteristics are what makes owning an old Mustang a unique experience. On this red car, somebody disconnected all of the taillight wiring and taped it back into the harness. Same thing with the neutral start safety switch on the tranny and a few other circuits.

He finally got it all worked out a couple of months ago, but never could figure out any reason for it.

Bill's car was an old wrecked racer when he bought it. It was mostly original, but had a tubular front chassis that he didn't like, so he designed and fabricated his own. New firewall, floorpan, rear firewall, roll bar. Gas tank moved to rear seat area, headers run under the passenger seat. Body widened 6". Powered by a souped up 302 that dyno tested around 400 HP. Altogether around $120K invested by the time he was done. It's also still street legal.

Posted: **Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:39 am**

I need to test drive a new Mustang.

Build your own virtual Mustang before you test drive: (this is really cool)

http://www.fordvehicles.com/the2010mustang/?id=

I'm not sure how to post a link, just copy & Past the above.

Merry Christmas!

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:08 am**

I finished the rub rails, I used 3 layers of 1/4"

At the transom

I had to cut a curve into the last 4 feet or so at the bow to get it to line up properly, all in all it went on without an issue.

I have the next week off so I hope to get off this couch and get some work done on the boat and maybe a little ice fishing for some perch, I know, I would much rather be down south fishing for some of those grouper & reds but that may have to wait until spring for now I'll take what I can get and I hope I can give an update on the "Anyone Fishing" thread before the weeks end.
Just noticed this guy out fishing behind the house.

He's nuts!, I'll have to go see if he's catching anything after this post.

Bundling up in Michigan
Joe H

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:41 pm**

He's nuts!,

The understatement of the month

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:30 pm**

He's nuts!,

The understatement of the month

I was thinking very dedicated or very hungry!!!

Joe - Did you use plywood strips because you had left over wood or planned it from the beginning?

Andrew

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:09 pm**

Looks good Joe, I did the same on my build with the leftover ply. The 3 layers of 1/4" makes it super strong, docks and other boats will fear it

Whats wrong with a little ice fishing, it's the only game in town come Jan-Feb.

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:24 pm**

Are yall standing in the ice to catch bait

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:31 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:Are yall standing in the ice to catch bait

Haha, pretty much. Good eating, you just need to catch about 46367 of em and fillet for about 5 hours and you've got yourself a great meal.

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:47 pm**

you just need to catch about 46367 of em

You'd need that many for bait where we fish

You telling me that you stand out in the snow and dig a hole in the ice to fish specifically for those little things

Must be very bored or very hungry. I've got a 5 letter word for that- DELTA

Here, this will be good for your soul. Delta can have you fishing in just a few hours..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRk_EVNG5Xs

Posted: **Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:13 pm**

Joe - Did you use plywood strips because you had left over wood or planned it from the beginning?

Andrew, I planned it on this build, as kdog mentioned it added a ton of strength and I found that to be true on my OD16 as well when I did just use leftover ply, so I figured I would repeat it, it's really an easy process it just takes a couple of days and lots of clamps.

Kdog, not all of us can get a pretty girl like that out ice fishing with us! That might even change Larry's mind.

Hey Larry, thats just not nice, ha ha, how far is it to heaven?
I'll have to admit the grouper you guys caught and Richard cooked up at Crystal River was mighty tasty but I sure wouldn't mind some fresh perch right about now!

Here's to walking on thin ice and eating fried perch!

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:32 pm**

Yep Joe, you really need to come down and get on a grouper trip. I went down and fished with Richard again in November. The night before we stayed up until 0200 catching bait, then the next morning I caught bait while Richard got the boat ready. We put almost 200 pin fish in the bait well, and they were all bigger than those perch

We used every one of them grouper fishing

Plus 25 pounds of brined cigar minnows and 5 pounds of squid.

Kdog, not all of us can get a pretty girl like that out ice fishing with us! That might even change Larry's mind

I didn't even notice there was a girl under those clothes

I couldn't do nothing with it anyway in those temps

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:36 pm**

You have not experienced fishing until the water is hard and the temperatures are below 0 F. Some of the biggest freshwater fish I have caught was on hard water, three pound perch, 5lb pickeral (as big as they get) and a whole string of 5lb and larger bass. I have heard of pike large enough to get stuck in the 8" whole. can't take the cold anymore.

Boat is really moving along and looks good.
BF2

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:42 pm**

three pound perch, 5lb pickeral (as big as they get) and a whole string of 5lb and larger bass

Now were talking fish that would make a decent bait

I like fish that gives 80 lb tackle a work out

When you can get a 400 lb marlin through that ice, it might be worth me standing on it. Until then, it aint gonna happen

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:23 am**

C.L. One more little thing they forgot to tell you about ice fishing.

It requires at least a fifth of liquor per person per trip, and that's just to keep warm. It takes twice that much to catch a good buzz

Will

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:07 am**

Yeah a good buzz helps, but you can't to carefull when you out on the ice, I've caught some of the biggest Walleye ever through the ice. There is an extended duck hunt this weekend and for the last week there have been hundreds of thousands of ducks out in the bay, Redheads, Canvasbacks, teals, but the duck hunters are going to be real disappointed, there was a deep freeze last night and the bay is frozen over, the ducks have moved out, duck hunters are crazier then ice fisherman, they'll find the ducks.

Glassing the bottom of the boat in the next couple of days, I'll post updates.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:03 pm**

Best time to hunt ducks is when everything is frozen. You get out there a couple of hours earlier and bust up the ice (I usually use the butt of my shotgun, but the ice here never gets more than an inch thick in a REALLY bad freeze). Since you're the only open water in town all the ducks come a runnin'

Will

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:49 pm**

boat is looking good..

We ice fish round these parts too. It gets you out and about.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:22 am**

Thanks Mecreature, I hope you enjoyed your D15 with your crew this past summer.

I managed to get what I think is a big step out of the way, I laminated the bottom of the boat yesterday.
I started out by cutting the cloth to the proper size then filling in the weaves on the tape job I did a couple of weeks ago with a slurry mix of epoxy and woodflour, I was wishing at that point that I would have went wet on wet but in actuality it only took me about 45 minutes to prep for the cloth.
My son walked into the garage just as I was attempting to lay the cloth back onto the boat, he seen I was struggling, hee hee, and said "hey do you need a hand" ha, gotch ya!
4 hours later we were done. We took turns using a 7" roller to apply the epoxy and a 6" squeegee to spread and thin it out, this system worked very well well, one was spreading the epoxy the other was mixing, the only down side was I didn't listen to everyone's suggestion on prepping the epoxy before hand, I use the West System, I know, I know, but for reasons it's my epoxy of choice but I also use the pumps and after about 3 or 4 sessions of 15 pumps of epoxy and 15 pumps of slow hardener, well, it was obvious this was going to be a real pain in the arss, very tiring, I'll pour the epoxy next time.
With the prep work and cloth I used almost 2 gallons epoxy, my brother-in-law saved the day by bringing me an extra gallon of epoxy along with the slow hardener right about the time I was thinking I wasn't going to have enough to finish. He also returned about an hour later with cut examples of what I should do for strakes and chines, I'll elaborate on that later with pretty CAD renditions.

Well all and all I think it turned out very nice, what do you think?

Thanks for all the comments and help up to this point.

Joe H

BTW: 12 oz cloth isn't really 12 oz cloth, it's more.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:25 pm**

It looks good from Virginia Joe.

Great Job. Yeah, haveing someone do the mixing saves a ton of time, a must have doing a large boat like yours.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:57 pm**

Hey that hull shape looks very familiar. Looks like you did a nice clean glass job.

No worries about your method, you can try the other technique on the inside.

On to the fairing!

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:29 pm**

Nice neat glass work, fairing should be pretty easy on that clean hull

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:52 am**

Looks very nice. Good job.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:14 am**

Happy New Year to you and your family Joe. What a great job on your new build. Keep up th good work. John

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:10 am**

That looks great Joe! Happy New Year to you and Janet

Not sure what you're going to do with that big boat and all that frozen water though

If I lived up there where the water was hard, I'd be building one of these

Yall should talk to Jacques about plans. Wonder if he'd design a 100 mph sailboat

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:39 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:Yall should talk to Jacques about plans. Wonder if he'd design a 100 mph sailboat

I'd never be able to wrap my mind around close reaching in a 50 knot tailwind.

On the other hand, if I still lived up there, I'd entertain the thought of making a set of skates to clamp on the bottom of the V10. She would be Hell on ice

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:51 pm**

Thanks for the great comments guy's, I went trough extra measures to make sure the bottom was good a fair before I glassed so we will see how the fairing goes.

John, glad to hear everything is going well, full recovery takes time, I hope to see you in the spring, and with the build Bassmun is doing it's no wonder your going for the same boat.

I have seen a few of those ice boat out on the bay early in the year but I think the snow tends to slow then down, 100mph are you kidding me? That would be a blast. Larry please keep a small corner of your boat open for me at Boca Grande I'm still not 100% certain if I can go this year but it's looking good.

I glassed the transom yesterday, and will be ordering some micro balloons and fairing compond tomorrow.

Back to work tomorrow, it's going to be tough after being off for the last 2 weeks but someone has to pay for this addiction!

Joe H

gk108, have you built your new Mustang online yet? Let me know if and when you need a pin #.

Posted: **Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:54 am**

Not to worry Joe, I've got a spot reserved for you in No Excuse

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:55 pm**

that hull looks sweet...

You are getting some work done despite the cold weather.

That last blast was chilly.. We got an unusually large amount of lake effect snow from Lake Michigan all the way down here on the north side of Indy last week from that crazy system. We use these cold spells to plan our summer trip up north. I think we are going to UP maybe to the 2 hearts river.. or somewhere in that area.

Keep up the good work.

That P19 is the boat.

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:12 pm**

Thanks Mecreature,
This warm up is ruining my outdoor plans.

I received my order of mix of micro balloons and silica the other day and I'm ready to fill in the weaves of the 12oz biaxial cloth, I have already sanded the edges of the cloth and knocked down the radical threads a little and I think I'm ready to apply the slurry, I'll mix it up to a catsup type consistency and slap it on and use a rather large straight edge to spread it out, wait a day and sand it down, right? This will be new to me because I just used woodflour and epoxy then sanded like crazy on my OD16, to much work.
My brother in-law, who is a pretty good boat designer in his own right

, stopped by with a couple of examples of how I should do the strakes and chine.

I drew up a CAD rendition, no skeg, he said if I were going to be beaching her or running where I had a chance running up on rocks or oyster then by all means put one on, but it will add nothing for the perfomance of the boat, also start right at the transom with the strakes & chine then we will adjust the strakes forward after the first ride if needed. They measure 1" high by 2 1/4" wide.

Joe H

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:05 pm**

Your first goal is to fill the weave. The consistency for this is too thin to build up. Once the weave is filled, use a straight edge to find the humps and hollows. Mix it to a thicker consistency to fil in the hollows. A straight edge to drag works good at this stage. At least that's how I do it.

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:12 pm**

Joe I like the strakes and chine. I might make the chine one a little taller instead of 1' maybe 1 1/4 -1 1/2 just because of the volumn of water comin off the hull at that point. Talk to your brother-in-law. I'm doing about the same thing.

Tom

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:51 am**

Yeah Tom it's very similar to what you suggested in the first place, he's already mentioned making the chine just a bit larger, you must have been listening in.

I'm heading out to the garage to spread some slurry and fill the weave.
Steve, I'll use quickfair to fill in the humps and hollows, pics to follow!

I'm getting a late start but it will be a good weekend to work on the boat, the Saint Clair river is jammed up with ice in Algonac not allowing much water through from Lake Huron so the water level in Lake Saint Clair is dropping like crazy making it very un- safe for ice fishing, there are a few freighters caught up in the mess so the coast guard have been vey busy with their cutters trying to open it up, it's quite the operation, those guys in the cutters are amazing.

Thanks guys.
Joe H

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:33 pm**

I started to fill in the weaves of the glass yesterday but ran out of epoxy before I could finish, I used 1/2 gallon and almost 3/4 of the mix of balloons and silica and managed to just finish 1/2 of the boat and the transom, I may have put it on a little thick but it looks good this morning no runs and covered most of the weave, I wish I would have used fast hardener instead of slow, it's still tacky this morning, all I can do now is watch it dry.

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:50 pm**

Fairing putty can be spread along way....but I also found that it disappears quickly too

She sure does look good from here. While she's drying just sit back and enjoy a warm cup of hot chocolate and knock out a few honey dos (that's what I try to do anyway

)

Will

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:49 pm**

Sounds like a plan Will.

Lazy day in Mich

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:51 pm**

I just love watching epoxy dry (setup, cure) kinda like watching the grass grow. Except I don't like grass to grow, then you have to mow it.
Come to think of it after the epoxy sets you have to sand it

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:22 pm**

Lazy day in Mich

Joe H

Joe, you could always drill a hole in the ice and catch us some bait. Just leave it outside until you come to Boca Grande in the spring, put it in a cooler and we'll feed it to something

Your boat is looking great

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:31 pm**

Joe,

What part microballoons, silica, epoxy did you use for you slurry? Also, will that slurry with the micro-balloons be strong enough to hold your strakes and skeg? ( I have never used microballoons before and don't know their strength.) I plan on filling the weaves with a slurry too....before fairing .
Looks great!!!
Andrew

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:27 pm**

Andrew, I don't know the ratios but if you get the blended filler from here it works great. No filler is structural, it's cosmetic, it has no strength. Install all your strakes and skeg before doing any filling and fairing.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:30 pm**

Hey Larry that's funny but what even worse is I'd be out there catching that bait if the ice were just a little more stable, this little warm up is killing me! If I can't get out fishing soon your gonna see me on your door step with fishing pole in hand!

will that slurry with the micro-balloons be strong enough to hold your strakes and skeg? ( I have never used microballoons before and don't know their strength.)

Andrew I ordered the blended filler from here at Boat Builder Central, but thats a good question, I planned on using quickfair over the filler then put on the strakes but thinking about it I think I've read fairing after putting on the strakes and chine????

I just love watching epoxy dry (setup, cure) kinda like watching the grass grow. Except I don't like grass to grow, then you have to mow it.
Come to think of it after the epoxy sets you have to sand it

Weird but I can't wait, I get to try out my new hand made sanding long board.

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:31 pm**

Hey Larry posting at the same time, I filled in the weaves with the mix, still need to put on strakes and chine, now what??

Joe H

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:10 pm**

Strakes over your slurry Joe the Quik Fair doesn't have enough strength. If you want a definative answer ask Joel up in Epoxy, Paint section.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:23 pm**

Hey Larry posting at the same time, I filled in the weaves with the mix, still need to put on strakes and chine, now what??

Joe H

Grinder

Joe, don't glue anything over fairing compound, it's just for cosmetics, it has no strength.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:29 pm**

Grinder Joe, don't glue anything over fairing compound, it's just for cosmetics, it has no strength.

Larry, does that mean you can glue the strakes/skeg over the microballoon/ silica slurry??

... just making sure I understand. I know you can't over fairing compound, or is the microballoon/silica slurry for fairing too?

Thanks

Andrew

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm**

Andrew, the the micro-balloon/ silica is strictly a fairing compound, it has no (minimal) structural strength. Install all your skegs, strakes and spray rails directly over glass. If you have to fill first, use wood flour or milled fibers, a structural filler.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:51 pm**

Larry I just went through Joel's FS17 build because I seemed to recall he put his strakes on after the slurry as I mentioned above. Well he did. Not only after the slurry but after totally fairing the hull. So apparently Quik Fair has enough strength to hold the strakes. Or Joel seems to feel it does. Joe, Andrew, you can see his attachment of the strakes on page 10 of his FS17 build at the top of this section

Tom

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:01 am**

I'm not sure now but when I ordered the microballoon/ silica slurry I talked with Joel and I thought he mentioned it was okay to attach the skegs and such to the slurry, I checked out his build and yes he did.
If anything, I just put 1 coat on 1 side, I can grind it down or I have a whole coffee can full of brass screws!!!

Thanks for pointing this out Andrew.

Maybe Joel will comment, if I don't hear from him by lunch time I will do as suggested Larry and ask in the epoxy/paint section.

I'm at work now but can't think, must think about cars not boats.................... it's no use.

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:37 am**

I'm at work now but can't think, must think about cars not boats.................... it's no use.

BBV...it's a wonderful thing!

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:56 am**

BBV...it's a wonderful thing!

I got it good and I got it bad!

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:14 pm**

Joe, You sound like me when I was building "EZMORNING". I took off quite a few days earlier than I should have. How bout taking a picture of your fairing board and posting it? Keep up the good work. John

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:22 pm**

With the slurry of slurry excitment I almost forgot, just before I fiberglassed I noticed a bit of a dip in the hull, maybe 1/4", 5' from the transom, so I climbed under the hull and propped it up right under the dip, it worked great, I have since removed the prop-up, after the glass cured, and no dip.

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:15 pm**

after the glass cured, and no dip.

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:10 pm**

It's not much John, I bought the handles at Lowes for a few bucks, sandpaper for a belt sander and some 3M spray on adhesive, here it is!
It was someone else's idea here on the site, I just borrowed it.

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:15 pm**

It's a step up from mine. I just used an extra chunk of plywood cut to size with 2 more extra plywood clunks for handles. Then I scraped out the remainder of a epoxy putty bag and..... voi la, instant red neck fairing board

Most of us around here make them. Have you seen the price to buy one

Lookin' good Joe.

Will

Edit: I also bought my sandpaper on line. I just googled, "stick on sandpaper" and played around until I found the big rolls. Then I layed the sticky side down on the fairing board, cut to size, and watched my arms get bigger

Posted: **Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:15 am**

Did lots of sanding over the weekend, I don't know if my arms are any bigger but I'm sure they are going to fall off sometime today, my wonderful Dentist gave me some pain relievers last week after 2 root canals, I think I need to ease the pain. I used the micro balloons and silica blended filler on one side and woodflour & epoxy on the other, the blended filler was a pleasure to sand compared to the side with the woodflour but both side came out nice and we will see if the strakes fall off of the side with just the blended filler, I did do some extra sanding for the strakes and chine.

I also cut the strakes and chines and placed them on the hull temporally just to see how they looked, next step is to install them permanently.
Lee gave some excellent installation advice on another thread but I am still not sure how to maintain the proper alignment to the centerline of the boat, any suggestions would be appreciated. Lee mentioned a template??

CAD concept:

Actual:

Joe H

Posted: **Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:45 pm**

I am still not sure how to maintain the proper alignment to the centerline of the boat, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Joe,

When you figure that out let me know too. I was discussing this subject that with Bradley this morning. I still have my centerline on the stern. Don't know if that will be much help.

Bradley suggested lining up two strips of straight material (same thickness) parallel to the center line (same distance from either side of the centerline) and measuring the diagonals of the strips so they are parallel. So in theory the skeg in the middle of the strips should be aligned. ( A laser level would help too) You would base the alignment of you strakes off the skeg. Sound like it might work...

but I'm not there yet

. I'll lean from you!!

Hopefully, I'll have everything filled and sanded by the end of the week. Try to get a little done each night.

Your boats looking great, keep on truck'en!!

Andrew

Posted: **Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:55 pm**

Check out Peter's suggestion/solution. I like it!!!

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22444

Posted: **Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:37 pm**

Check out Peter's suggestion/solution. I like it!!!

It's very cool, did you see it Andrew? I'll use it! I already told my wife I'll need a "laser" level though.

Thanks Peter.
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:42 pm**

Joe H wrote:
Check out Peter's suggestion/solution. I like it!!!
It's very cool, did you see it Andrew? I'll use it! I already told my wife I'll need a "laser" level though.

Thanks Peter.
Joe H

Your very welcome, you know I have a laser level and for some reason I couldn't get it done with that thing

still a very cool toy though so don't cancel that order

very useful to set your waterline

Posted: **Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:56 pm**

How do you like this Peter, I couldn't help myself it's what I do. I think it could be made out of aluminum or wood but I will never make it, 1- I don't have the tools, 2- I'll be done this weekend using Peters home made version, but it was fun to draw, I drew holes every 1" and drew it to be adjustable by 1" I figure that should cover anything from 4" from C/L to 26". If anyone is intrested in making it I have detailed up some 2D drawings or I could send you the 3-D file.

Designed by NASA
Netherland Antilles Society of Appropriate technology

Joe H

BTW: The picture was trimmed down when I edited, to see the full pic go to the gallery or is it just me?

Posted: **Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:10 pm**

Very Cool !!!!

I wish I could do that, I started once with it but didn't had the patience to put it through

Edit one suggestion though I would have done the adjustment with 1 wing nut

Posted: **Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:19 pm**

That's a sweet tool right there

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:27 pm**

one suggestion though I would have done the adjustment with 1 wing nut

Peter I thought about doing that but for one, have you ever tried drawing a wing nut! pain in the arss. but really, if you only have one slot with a wing nut then there is nothing to keep the 2 pieces parallel to each other, know what I mean?

Larry, thanks, now we just need someone to make one and we can throw it in the tool exchange. I have our tooling department intrested but they have been pulling back on what we call goverment jobs (personal stuff) at work.

Joe H

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:07 pm**

Peter I thought about doing that but for one, have you ever tried drawing a wing nut!

LMAO

When you figure that out let me know too. I was discussing this subject that with Bradley this morning. I still have my centerline on the stern. Don't know if that will be much help.

Here's my idea, don't laugh too hard, I'm not an engineer

All you need is 2 plumb lines, and a roof overhead. Hang one plumb bob from the ceiling directly over the center line at the transom. Hang the other one directly over the center line up forward, even with the longest strake. Then pull a string line between those 2 points on the ceiling. From that line measure (using a square to insure a 90 degree angle) the distance that you want the strakes spaced and mark those points on the ceiling. Pull a line between them. Eyeball them for parallel. Sometimes the eye is better than a measurement. Now drop your plumbs anywhere from the new line and they will point to the exact centers of the strake position, anywhere along their length. You don't have to index to the center of course, you could use an edge instead.

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:56 pm**

Joe H wrote:Peter I thought about doing that but for one, have you ever tried drawing a wing nut! pain in the arss. but really, if you only have one slot with a wing nut then there is nothing to keep the 2 pieces parallel to each other, know what I mean?

I meant leave those nuts as guides and take one wing nut to lock, reason I said is when I was busy with my home edition tool I wish I had 3 hands

So wing nuts doesn't come with autocat??? :doh:here you go then

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:02 pm**

Larry, I had to read that 3 times before "BAM" I got it, and you are so right about the eye being better then a measurement, I had calculated the perfect angle for cutting the rectangle in half for the strakes, after wasting the first board I went by eye and the others came out much better.

I see what you mean Peter, that gives me an idea , I'll use dowels in place of the bolts and 1 wing nut, on the drawing that is because I'll never build it.
I think you meant Autocad, and in my neck of the woods we call it kindercad.

I use a CAD system called Catia, pretty powerful tool, not that Autocad isn't, just different applications.

From one nut to another nut, thanks for the wing nut.
Joe H

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:39 am**

Joe,

Saw you strakes in the builders gallery. They look great!!! How did you attach yours to the boat while gluing.?

You'll start looking like Popeye this weekend!!

Andrew

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:58 am**

Hey Andrew,
I used the tool, idea stolen from Peter, to mark alignment lines down the hull then drilled some pilot holes in the strakes about every 20" and temporally attached them with drywall screws to the hull one at a time, some looked a little wavy so I adjusted by eye, then, when I was satisfied with the alignment, I drew an outline around each one removed them and used woodflour and epoxy mix to permanently attach them removing the drywall screws the next day, I also did this before fairing as Larry suggested to ensure they don't fall off when I'm hulling A$$ across the lake!

You can see in the pictures I started fairing too, I used a mix of West System 410 Microlight & 406 silica with Westsystem epoxy and I'll have to say I didn't like it the first time around, it just seemed heavy if you know what I mean, it didn't go on as smooth as the purple stuff from bateau here, but in all fairness I had a pretty flimsy straight edge so I will try again this weekend with the Westsystem stuff, simply because I already bought and paid for it, and a stiffer straight edge, if I don't like it for the second time I will move on to Quickfair, thoughts?

As far as sanding, I will have to try again this weekend but as Richard from OZ would say, I stuffed my back about 5-6 weeks ago and things haven't been the same since, the back seems better but now my right shoulder, arm and hand are paying the price and sanding just seems to aggravates it, it sucks getting, huh, older but of course I'll be out there sanding Saturday just so I can bitch about not being able to lift my cup of coffee on Sunday.

more pics in my gallery:http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=1061

Joe H

BTW: Nice Trout

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:56 pm**

The boat is looking good Joe, keep up the good work

Brian

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:32 pm**

Thanks Brian,
Man wish I was in Florida fishing even though it was a mild winter here in Michigan I need some warm weather.

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:38 pm**

Looks great Joe! You really need to clean your camera lens though

Delta is ready when you are

Well, they used to be

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:24 pm**

Hey Larry, I don't think it's the camera lens, it's floating dust bunnies.

Delta huh. I don't think it's going to happen this year, you don't know how much it's killing me just to admit that.

Posted: **Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:28 pm**

Oh no Joe

I was really hoping you and Janet would make the meet again this year.

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:10 pm**

Joe meant to ask you earlier why didn't you extend the spray rail further forward. I think you may have a wet boat with them that short. You have nothing on the front leading edge to direct the water out and away from the boat.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:41 pm**

Ya know Tom I was thinking the same thing, just the opposite of Andrews problem, but the reason I put them there is because that's where my boat building brother-in-law marked the hull to stop it and then go 45 degress toward centerline to end the strakes, I didn't question it at the time but I was thinking of putting a small splash rail along the line where the 2 panels come together if needed, just big enough to break the water, It does have the cabin up front so maybe it doesn't matter?

Joe H

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:04 am**

Yea, Joe the cabin will help a good bit, but still.........., I'd want the spray rail going further forward even if it narrowed and got smaller towards the bow. But, then your brother-in-law should know what he's doing.

Sorry your not going to make it to Boca this year but things come up and understand. Enjoy the Walleye run!

That's always fun!

Tom

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:58 am**

I'm going to look at extending the chine further up the bow, it might take a little work but I think your right, better take care of it know then say yeah I should have after it's in the water!

Joe H

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:44 am**

Joe,

I know what you mean.... better take care of it now. Thanks for pointing out my rail... It didn't feel right installing it ... should have listened to my "gut". Take a look of my theory and see what you think. See my last post on my thread. Boat looks great!!

Andrew

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:07 pm**

I thought a couple of pictures might help you make a decision. Note that at 30mph the P19 cut water is far enough back that the spray hits the break well back on the hull. However, at 9-10 mph, the spray break moves well forward and, if not interrupted, could go high enough to blow into the boat if there is much wind at all.

I would worry more about how far forward you ran the inner strakes. This is going to give you more lift in the bow than on my boat and may???? cause you to run more nose-up. I also wonder a little about whether this could cause some bow steering. Needless to say this is a difficult modeling job which is well beyond my capabilities.

Anyway, have at it. You are doing a great job and I want to see the results.

P.S. I can E-mail you full resolution pictures if you need a closer look.

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:10 pm**

Eric, I was looking for those pic's, yes please email me higher res pictures. Thank you very much. It's beyond mine too, from what I'm told in the traditional way of boat building you tune the strakes after you take her for your first a ride.

Andrew, gut feelings seem to go along way here, I'm at work right now but will check out your thread tonight.

Thanks
Joe H

BTW: Tom, I called my brother-in-law, he will be stopping by this weekend, we will see what he has to say.

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:22 pm**

Joe, since the strakes were brought up, that also sort of concerned me when I saw how you had done them on your boat. The Westlawn course I took covering strakes make yours sort of counter intuitive. They are reversed from what is normally considered good design. Normally the outer one is the longer one and the inner one is the shorter one. That way as the boat comes up on plane the longer outer one will maintain contact with the water for a longer period of time, until it is equal to the inner and both then provide steering control for you. But I took my course in the 70's so things may have changed since then.

Again something to bring up with your brother-in-law. I don't know if the current set up will cause bow steering or not as Eric suggests but he has more experience with his boat and over 2 years in Maine should know how she handles.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:47 pm**

Donny, my brother-in law who is a 3rd generation boat builder and designer stopped by and had a look at the strakes and chine, his word's "perfect" exactly what he had in mind, it will give it the proper lift and maybe even add some top end speed. Tom, I explained your concern and he said with strakes and chines ask 20 different designers and you will get 20 different answers, this is what he recommends for this particular hull design and they are far enough back were they will not cause any bow steering, lengthening the chines however will cause bow steering, and the current design will have just the opposite effect of what you described but if they were further up the bow it could happen. we may have to tune them after the first ride but that would mean taking some off from the back side.
We may add splash rails in the back, he had some good ideas which will have function and form.

Back to the fairing, did I mention fairing sucks!

I have questions about the 410 west system micro light fairing stuff compared to Quick Fair, I can tell you I'm not impressed with the 410.
Joe H

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:50 pm**

Joe, I don't think anything compares to Quick Fair for ease of use, nothing I've ever tried anyway.

Posted: **Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:36 am**

Okay Joe the master has spoken.

I totally agree with him that you should see some lift and additional top end speed with the design of the strakes and you'll be more efficient at midrange speeds on plane. They are perfectly designed for that!

I just wasn't sure on the length inside vs. outside. Guess I have to rethink that on my boat.

My only real concern is the length of the spray rail and like he says we will see.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:03 am**

Hey Tom, we will see when the boat hit the water, I'm still concerned about no splash rail up front as Erics pictures shows it will be needed.
I also showed Donny pictures of the P26 built in Turkey and he suggested bringing my P19 to thier boat works to finish the top side to show boat quality, it's tempting but I don't think I can afford thier work, even if I would be doing all the work to his instructions, but he also wants to change things up to look a little like the C19, it's a lot to think about but I have a little time before I need to make that decision, hell it might be the closest I ever get to owning a Mays Craft.

Larry, I was sanding the 410 stuff from westsystem yesterday, well you were out fishing with the misses, and it came off real nice but I'm moving on to the quick fair, I'm ording some today from bateau, I can't find it anywhere localy.

If you guy's ever find a reason to come up to Michigan I would be more then happy to give you the 5 cent tour through the Mayea Boat Works, they do have some real classic beauties there, and Herb Mayea who's 90 years old and still designing and building boats, of coarse they keep him away from the power tools now!

Thanks guy's
The ice is finally out of the canel, fishing is in the short term future!
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:38 pm**

I was able to open the garage door for the first time in several months and blow out all the saw dust and get a decent front view picture.
Sanded the first coat of fairing compound and still have a few low spots to fill in and sand again, fill in and sand again and so on.........

I just finished sanding 3/4 of the boat and putting on the first coat of fairing compond on the rest of the boat, advil time.
Joe H

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:44 pm**

Lookin good there Joe, aint sanding fun

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:41 pm**

What ya got there Joe, a Outlander 400, my daughter used to have one. The rack looks familiar.
Boat looks good, bet that was nice to pull that door up and breath some fresh air and get a different perspective on the boat from a distance.

Brian

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:40 am**

Hey Larry, I can't wait to get home from work and do a little more sanding, but I just put the more fairing compound on yesterday so it may not be cured enough today to sand,(one can only hope) I only had slow hardner and it went down to 40 degree's last night.

Brian, that's a 440 high output outlander, good eye, I use it mostly for ice fishing in the winter and trail riding up in northern michigan in the summer, it's a great machine but I really messed myself up on it coming of the ice very early in the year and it put an end to my ice fishing for the rest of the winter, at the time I would have traded it in a heartbeat for a new outboard for the P19 but now that I have had time to think about it I'll just keep saving my pennies for the new engine.

In the mornings the sun shines right into the garage on the boat bottom, man I thought I did a better jod of fairing, the sun shining on it showed every little inperfection, but it was still very nice to be able to open the doors.

Joe H

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:55 am**

Joe H wrote: Brian, that's a 440 high output outlander, good eye, I use it mostly for ice fishing in the winter and trail riding up in northern michigan in the summer, it's a great machine but I really messed myself up on it coming of the ice very early in the year and it put an end to my ice fishing for the rest of the winter, at the time I would have traded it in a heartbeat for a new outboard for the P19 but now that I have had time to think about it I'll just keep saving my pennies for the new engine.

Joe H

Joe, thats a dilemma I've been struggling with for awhile now. Do I sell one of my toys to buy the outboard or just save

As of now I'm with you, just keep saving my pennies for the new outboard. I'm going to love my boat, but I love my other toys also

Some just never get used like the waverunners, but on certain occasions they are fun and the wife likes them

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:38 pm**

I got ya there Joe, I had to sell my two quads but my wife still has her Yamaha 400 4x4 so when I want to do a little riding I take that.
Joe not to worry, you can't see those imperfections when the boat is upright and your fishing.

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:55 pm**

Joe, I've been following your new build for quite some time now. You sure are doing a jam up job. Maybe you'll have her finished for next years meet. Love to see you and your wife again. John

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:01 pm**

Yea Joe, what John said.

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:17 pm**

Thanks guy's but I won't be bringing any boats down south until I'm ready to stay!

But we are already making plans so we can attend next year wherever it may be.

Larry B, the wave runners went a couple of years ago, I sold my mustang last year to buy the wood for this boat, the ATV may have to go so I can get the engine, but I hope not.

I'm a little bummed right now, I did some fairing Monday and still can't sand today, it just gums up the sand paper,

Starting to think about primer, I used interlux InterProtect 2000E/2001E epoxy primer on my OD16, it worked very nice but it's not a high build primer and I would like to try some high build stuff this time, I'm assuming the high build will help hide any small inperfections? If there is any of course.

Joe H

Posted: **Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:40 pm**

Joe H wrote:Thanks guy's but I won't be bringing any boats down south until I'm ready to stay! But we are already making plans so we can attend next year wherever it may be.

Larry B, the wave runners went a couple of years ago, I sold my mustang last year to buy the wood for this boat, the ATV may have to go so I can get the engine, but I hope not.

I'm a little bummed right now, I did some fairing Monday and still can't sand today, it just gums up the sand paper,

Starting to think about primer, I used interlux InterProtect 2000E/2001E epoxy primer on my OD16, it worked very nice but it's not a high build primer and I would like to try some high build stuff this time, I'm assuming the high build will help hide any small inperfections? If there is any of course.

Joe H

I really like the S3 Yacht primer. I used Interlux on my GV11, and I much prefer the S3. Very nice to work with.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:10 am**

Yes Joe the S3 Epoxy Yacht Primer Joel sells is really nice. It will fill anything up to an 80 grit sanding scratch and maybe a little more but not much. That is about all you can expect from the high builds. The key to a final perfect finish is fairing as good as you think you can. Then put on one layer of high build. Do a speckle coat of something like Krylon Fast Dry and then a light sand with the boards to show where your highs and lows remain. There will be some.

Fill the lows with Quik Fair and sand the hi's. Another coat of primer and Krylon, fair and sand if you want. Then 2-3 coats of primer. Sand with 220-330 for your final top coat.

I don't know how long it's going to take me to do an 18' boat but it took me 2 weeks for an 11' one to get it the way I wanted.

I may start doing the Krylon after the first or second fairing sanding.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:51 pm**

Tom, now that you bring that up, I'm curious. I tried the Krylon spray thing and put it on WAY to heavy. Made it too tough to sand off, so that taught that lesson pretty good. But I always wondered if you have to sand it completely off or can just leave a bit in the lows, to show you where to QuickFair? My concern was it would trouble the bond, but maybe it's a trivial bit and not to worry?

Got curious Dougster

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:39 pm**

I've been using the same technique for years on cars and I've never had an issue with a little guide coat under the filler, but then again I spray it on so light that one can lasts me 5-6 entire car paintjobs. If you're worried (and you put it on light) just scrub the krylon overspray off before you lay down the quickfair. It doesn't take much to remove it and if it helps you sleep better then it's not a waste of time

George

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:32 pm**

A little bit won't hurt as there is more QF to speckles. But if you have more paint to QF take the paint off. The key to getting speckles is standing off aways and moving the can quickly.

Speckles good, solid bad.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:53 am**

I'll be doing the Krylon this weekend after a little sanding.
I'd like to use the S3 Epoxy Yacht Primer Joel sells but with shipping cost, ouch!
I can get awlgrip and interlux products for cost so I'm forced to checked that out first, I'm sure 1 of them will have a good high build epoxy primer??

Thx
Joe H

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:04 am**

I can get awlgrip and interlux products for cost so I'm forced to checked that out first, I'm sure 1 of them will have a good high build epoxy primer??

Both of them do. Getting at cost I would go for the Awlgrip. Nice paint, similar to Sterling in the final finish, and you are doing a lot of prep for a good paint job.

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:39 am**

I agree with Cape Man. Awlgrip and Interlux products are very good and getting them at wholesale is great. Awlgrip's high build primer is better than the Interlux product (fills better) in my opinion. That said, I do like the S3 high build primer most. In the end, they will all work and it comes down to preference.

For me, the decision is usually about the location I have for paining. If I'm painting in the garage under my house, I use the S3 product line due to the vicious fumes of the other stuff. If I can paint in another space, my favorite approach is S3 primer followed by Interlux Perfection paint.

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:05 pm**

Decisions, decisions right Joe!

The Awlgrip primer from what I know is better like Dan says, again get the high solids one I think it is listed for filling 80-120 grit sanding streaks. Either Perfection or AwlGrip should serve you well as a top coat with AwlGrip probably the better paint. You'll need a respirator with a chemical filter with either of them and good ventilation.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:46 pm**

Actually you guy's have help with those decisitions, on my OD 16 I used Interlux 2000E primer, Interlux antifouling bottom paint and interlux brightside on the sides, I didn't admit it at the time but if Craig can I guess I can too, I used porch paint for cement on the interior, it all has held up beautifully for the last 3 years, but interlux doesn't have a high build epoxy primer, not that I can find anyway, awlgrip does, interlux doesn't have the special color I want, awlgrip does, so I'm glad to hear you all think the quality is very good, I might give thier fairing compound a try too, awlgrip it is.
Yeah ya can't beat whole sale Dan but it's through my in-laws account so believe me I still pay a price , I stopped by the marine stuff supplier and $52.00 for 2 quarts or $85.00 for 1 gal of awlgrip highbuild primer, sounds pretty good to me.

I'm still a couple weeks away from priming, more fairing and sanding in my immediate future, I can't wait to get that sander out tomorrow.

Another question, I know it's been answered here before but can't find it, I'm using 60 then 80 grit paper for sanding the fairing compound, what should I use just before priming?

Thx
Joe H

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:46 pm**

The Awlgrip should be able to handle 80 grit Joe. Give it a try for your first coat and speckling. If it doesn't then you know you'll have to go to 120.

Tom

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