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FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:12 pm
by wadeg
Here we go again. I finished building an OB15 last year. Great boat and great design, but I figured out that I needed a bigger boat. To save me from the time involved building another boat, I purchased a used production bay boat but I was not at all happy with it, so I just sold it. Those things are way too heavy and I was constantly finding things I wanted different about it.

I guess once you get spoiled with a custom build, you just can't settle for a production boat. I purchased the FS17 plans a few weeks ago and purchased the first load of ply today. I will also try to keep a better record of my build here. My OB15 build was not well documented, but here is a link to the build thread if anyone is curious.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=20793

This FS17 will be built as a center console and powered by a 50hp Tohatsu TLDI. I love these motors and was very happy with the 40hp TLDI I had on my OB15.

Once I start cutting, I will start posting pictures. I know how much you all love boat porn.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:49 pm
by tech_support
I remember the OB15, that was a great build. I like the tohatsu motors as well :)

Look forward to seeing the FS17 go together. Your right about having a boat your way, once you build your own you wont be very happy with anything else

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:59 pm
by wadeg
Nothing really exciting to post yet, but I decided to keep a better record of my full build process so here we go.

This weekend, I completed the rolling base to my building jig. It took a while to get it pretty square but I finally got it to within 1/8th of an inch and branced it. I also installed some heavy 4" casters on the bottom so that I can move it in and out of my garage easily. The strongbacks and molds will be mounted to this base and after flipping the boat, it will act as a cradle. Right now I am using it as a cutting platform.

Due to the waviness of 2x6 lumber that you buy at the home store, I decided to rip a sheet of 3/4 inch ply into 5 3/4 inch strips that are offset and laminated together to form my strongbacks. My molds will all be disposable except for the transom since I plan to bring the rear deck and a small deck at the bow to the gunwale and install a 6 inch wide gunnel deck between them.

I really like the metric plans over the Imperial ones. I don't have an issue with arithmetic involving fractions but, having everything in mm, I can do it all very quickly in my head. At least when I have not done too much pondering. The act of pondering usually involves at least one alcoholic drink and often more. The one challenge I did have with the metric plans is finding metric tape measures. The local homestores are not big on carrying metric measuring tools. I had to order a pair of tape measures off of Amazon and absolutely love them. They are both accurate to within 1mm or 1/32" which is very hard to find in a tape measure. I also find the flat one easier to use when outlining my molds. Here are some pics of my new favorite tools and my build area.
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Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:03 pm
by sitandfish
wadeg wrote:...I decided to keep a better record of my full build process so here we go...
I remember that build very well. I wish guys would publish more performance information once the build is on the water. I do see where you posted some info. This is not a specific question for you only. I guess I am just taking the opportunity to ask ALL the builders to PLEASE tell us as much as you can about how it handles on day one and on day 1 plus 100, 500, 1,000, etc.

Your OB15 was a great build. This new build is going to be great fun to watch, I'm sure. :wink:

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:29 am
by Lower
Looking forward to watching another FS17 come together!!

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:08 pm
by remedy32
I guess I am just taking the opportunity to ask ALL the builders to PLEASE tell us as much as you can about how it handles on day one and on day 1 plus 100, 500, 1,000, etc.
Could not agree more!!! IMHO one of the impediments to starting a build is the uncertainty that the finished product will meet one's needs/expectations. About a year ago I made a similar request that finished boats document as much information as they can: things like configuration, finished weight, engine, prop and of course performance at various loads. Idea didn't go anywhere though. Let's face it, it's a big leap to start a build of any of these boats both financial and especially in terms of time and space. I still believe that well documented successful completions will only serve to help both the builders and the sales of plans/materials. A general topic like " FS17's on the Water" might be what we need, where a number of builders can collect information and general thoughts AFTER the boat has hit the water.

Sorry if this hijacks your thread a bit but I do feel it would benefit many. Good luck with the build!! :D

Bill in CT
FS17
FL14
Both "on the water"

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:24 pm
by wadeg
I took a little time off last week and made some progress on my build. Now I am working on fairing and debating about the skeg. The plans say it is optional. I still have to put on the rub rail and sharpen the chine, so I have some time to debate. I am not sure I want a skeg on this one though. I can understand the need for one on a flat bottom and my last OB15 did not require one. I don't want to create additional drag if it is not needed. The 3 degree dead rise as the transom makes me think about putting one on though. I also debated about strakes, but really don't want those either. Just more drag.

Here are some pics of my progress as I know how much you guys love pictures.
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Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:18 pm
by steve292
Fast worker :D
FWIW, I put a skeg on mine. It turns like it is on a rail & tracks really good even at low speed with a side wind. I'd put one on, unless you want to keep the draft as small as possible.
Steve

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:44 pm
by remedy32
Lookin' good!

I agree with Steve about the skeg. I put one on mine and the boat tracks well from very slow to flat out. With only 25hp my boat still exceeds 20kts. on flat water easily. Good luck with the build.

Bill in CT
FS17

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:15 am
by wadeg
I have been neglecting my build documentation a lot. It looks like my last post was even before I flipped the boat. Wow!! I have now finished primer and am painting. After reading a lot of posts about spraying the System Three primer and topcoat, I decided to post some of my information about how I am spraying it. I sprayed almost all of the primer and have now sprayed the first top coat on the outside.


Spraying System Three primer
For the primer, I used an old gun that I had sitting around. This is a cheap Husky HVLP gun with a 1.4 tip. It worked pretty well with the primer thinned about 10% using a 50% concentration of IPA. I only got drips where I spayed too heavy and these were minimal.

Spraying System Three WR-LPU
I have sprayed my first coat and if I can spray the rest as well, then I will be very pleased with the results. Three spots developed a drip. All three were due to my going over a spot twice. One of then is on a corner, and I like to double coat the corners, so a little drip here is expected. The other two were from my trying to fix a spot that I thought had some light coverage. I believe the right gun and compressor along with the right thinning are the secret to spraying this stuff well.

The Gun
I used a cheap LVLP gun that I purchased from Grizzly online. This gun has a 1.3 tip and sprays this topcoat like a dream. It also sprays really fast. I believe I can move fast enough to paint exactly like they do cars doing while side panels in long strokes and still keep a wet edge.

Thinning
I thinned the material to 20% for the first test and was not pleased. It did not get the atomization I wanted. After turning the pressure up to 40psi and upping my thinning to 25%, the material atomized really well so I went with that mixture. I used only pure water to thin the paint as I did not want the paint to flash too quickly.

The Compressor
I purchased a Dewalt 200psi 15Gallon compressor specifically for spraying this boat and could not be happier. It puts out enough air to drive both of my guns well. When spraying, the compressor does come on to recharge shortly after staring, but the recharge keeps up very well and the tank pressure does not drop below 150psi using either gun. The instructions for this compressor say that it is rated for 100% duty cycle, but they recommend for long life to let the compressor rest for 15 mins every 45 mins which is more than enough time to finish a coat of paint or primer.

Prep work
I sanded all of the primer using 6" and 5" RO sanders and 150 grit sand paper. After looking at the outside a little more, I also went over the primer with 150 grit lightly by hand to give a little extra tooth for the paint. Before spaying the primer, I sanded with 80 or 120 grit using the RO sanders. Before the primer, I used a tack cloth, but after the tack cloth, I used a liberal amount of IPA to clean any possible residue from the tack cloth. For the topcoat, I only used IPA and plain water to clean the primer. I don't know about the adhesion of the top coat yet, so I won't comment on that, but the primer adhesion looks really good. Just before spaying the topcoat, I also sprayed about 8 ounces of water into the air to up the humidity level in my garage.

Here are some pics of the gun, compressor and the side of my FS17 after the first coat. If you are really curious, you can view my entire album by following the link.
https://picasaweb.google.com/awgouge/Fs ... directlink


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Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:25 am
by Prarie Dog
Wadeg, you are clipping right along on your build, looks real nice. Two questions, what do they call that color and, where are you buying your motor? :D

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:40 pm
by Steven
Hey Wade,

Great info and looking great. I have that same compressor and like it a lot. Bought it because It seemed up to the task of spraying. What is the CFM requirement of the gun you used for the topcoat.

Regards,
Steven

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:20 pm
by wadeg
Steven wrote:Hey Wade,

Great info and looking great. I have that same compressor and like it a lot. Bought it because It seemed up to the task of spraying. What is the CFM requirement of the gun you used for the topcoat.

Regards,
Steven
I don't remember exactly what the CFM requirements are for this gun, but I think it is somewhere around 4 CFM at 30 PSI. The Dewalt compressor pushes it really well. I am really liking this LVLP gun. I have now sprayed three coats with it and it is doing great. It takes me less than 15 minutes to spay a full coat on the outside and I use about 15 to 16 ounces of material (this is thinned, so about 13 to 14 really). With the thin coats I am laying on, I am going with 5 total coats. Don't get me wrong, I do have some drip, but those are my own fault for not being careful enough and over spraying some areas. You need to move fast with this gun.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:24 pm
by wadeg
Prarie Dog wrote:Wadeg, you are clipping right along on your build, looks real nice. Two questions, what do they call that color and, where are you buying your motor? :D
That color is Mercer Green and I am buying my motor from Rodney at San Marcos Marine. I actually already purchased the motor. It is a 50hp Tohatsu TLDI with binnacle controls. This is a direct injected two stroke motor. What I really like about the package is that the wiring harness, binnacle controls, prop, and steering arm all come with the standard Tohatsu package and the price is still right. This one cost me $5550 plus installation and rigging which was quoted at $400, but I am having him install some extra stuff, so it will be a little more than that.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:37 pm
by Prarie Dog
Wadeg, that's pretty cool, exactly the same motor I put on my boat. So far we like it very much, hoping they're as reliable as everybody says they are. Runs about 30 on my GF18, got a Powertech prop on order that I hope improves the top end and the hole shot. We'll see. :D Image

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:30 pm
by whosmatt
wadeg wrote: That color is Mercer Green and I am buying my motor from Rodney at San Marcos Marine. I actually already purchased the motor. It is a 50hp Tohatsu TLDI with binnacle controls. This is a direct injected two stroke motor. What I really like about the package is that the wiring harness, binnacle controls, prop, and steering arm all come with the standard Tohatsu package and the price is still right. This one cost me $5550 plus installation and rigging which was quoted at $400, but I am having him install some extra stuff, so it will be a little more than that.
That's a good price for that motor; I'm thinking of the same one for my FS17. Is that with or without sales tax? My quote was close to that if I subtract sales tax. The dealer offered for me to do a self-install as long as they get to inspect it to validate the warranty. Certainly beats the 8k they quoted me for the 50hp Honda. I've never owned a Honda outboard, but I have owned a couple of Honda cars and they are easily the best made cars I've ever had... Not sure if the extra 2.5k is worth it though. Your build is looking great.
-Matt

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:40 pm
by sitandfish
whosmatt wrote:...The dealer offered for me to do a self-install as long as they get to inspect it to validate the warranty...
-Matt
Man, that sounds like a great deal to me. You get a "professional" inspection for free and a second set of eyes to make sure you didn't do something....um.... "not exactly smart". :D

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:10 pm
by whosmatt
sitandfish wrote:
whosmatt wrote:...The dealer offered for me to do a self-install as long as they get to inspect it to validate the warranty...
-Matt
Man, that sounds like a great deal to me. You get a "professional" inspection for free and a second set of eyes to make sure you didn't do something....um.... "not exactly smart". :D
Actually that' not quite accurate... he offered the self-install for the 4 stroke I was originally considering. The TLDI might be a different story, I haven't verified.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:19 pm
by wadeg
If anyone buys that lvlp gun I used to spray the outside of my fs17, be careful cleaning it. Even though the material feed tube has a hex head on it, you are not supposed to remove it and clean it. There is a seal under it that is made of something like plumbers putty that prevents the air from mixing with the material before it exits the gun. If you destroy this seal, the air pressure will force the material out with much greater force and make a big mess. I know as now I have a log of drip to clean up.

I purchased another gun today though and should have the rest of my fs17 painted by the end of this weekend.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:51 pm
by wadeg
She has finally hit the water. Here are some pics of her in action.
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I still have to work out the kinks in performance. The first prop I used was a 13x11.1 which gave me a top of 32 at 5600 RPM. That was with 2 guys and a full tank of gas. At 3000 RPMS, she will start to plane and hit a speed of 12MPH. I traded that one for a 12x11.4 just for grins and I was amazed at the hole shot. With just me in the boat, she will jump up on plane in about a boat length ( I am sure it is longer than this, but this is what it feels like). At 4500RPM with the 12x11.4 prop and a whole lot of weight in the boat (3 guys, full fuel, bait well full, ice chest full), I can cruise at 22MPH. With the same load, I can hit 30MPH at 5700RPM and plenty of throttle to go. Neither of these props had any cup in them so I have had to run the motor lower than I would like also.

I think I will order a 13x11 or so stainless with cupping. This should allow me to run the motor a little higher and use up the rest of my throttle stroke. I am hoping to pick the cruise up to 25mph at 4500RPM with 3 guys, full fuel and bait. My confidence is high that I can hit this number as a 13pitch prop would have to slip by over 15 percent to get a number that low.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:11 pm
by gstanfield
Very nice :D

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:41 am
by Uncle D
Good to see another hit the water. Nice pic of Mansfield dam. I think it is, anyway looking forward to see that beauty close up at the meet. Don

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:40 pm
by cottontop
Wafeg, You now have 2 beautiful builds. Great job. John

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:30 pm
by tech_support
very nice, that may be the best gloss I have seen from S3 paint.

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I'm looking forward to hearing about which prop you end up with, so i can copy you (I have the same boat/motor). I never did install a tach on mine, its a tiller, so Im just guessing I have it right with a 10.5 x 14 3 blade stainless prop.

EDIT: I see now your is a 50hp, mine is the older version and 40hp.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:50 pm
by TomW
Wade great boat! Like the color.

Joel have you ever looked into TinyTachs. I think they have been brought up before, but are good where you don't want to run a regular tach. http://tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php#

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is a beautiful boat, and I really like that color green 8)

Joel have you ever looked into TinyTachs.
Those are great little devices. We used to use them on ultralight planes, and I used one on my 25 Merc. to get the prop pitch right.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:32 pm
by gstanfield
They are good for things that have more or less continuous RPM's like boats and airplanes. I tried to use one on a dirt bike once but the bike revved a lot faster than the tach would keep up. :lol: They just don't have the ramp rate to match a high performance bike engine that goes from 2,500rpm to about 11,000rpm in a matter of a second and a half or so as they only update a couple of times a second. Otherwise they are great tachs.

I'll chime in with everyone else on saying that is a gorgeous boat you built. I love everything about it 8)

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:34 pm
by wegcagle
Great job on the boat. I agree about the color. I really like it. That's what I was originally going to paint mine, but I got scared away after everyone said Georgia is too hot for that dark of a color.

AWESOME

Will

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:42 pm
by Prarie Dog
Wadeg, that is a super nice looking build, love the color. 8) I think the first prop I had on my boat was the same as yours after jumping through the hoops what we wound up with is a Powertech PTSWC3R10P-TN40. This prop is a semiweedless prop that has an incredible hole shot and will run 29 at 5700rpm. I think your boat is a little lighter than mine so you might need a little more pitch on yours. If you want more speed the have a semi cleaver blade that is supposed to be faster. We have the same motor.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:08 pm
by TomW
Wade a thought. When you add cup you effectively add pitch. The water pushes on the prop more effectively. You also normally get more rake when you get more cup again making the prop more effiecent. You'll see your rpm's drop at WOT.

When you went down an inch in diameter you effectively went down an inch in pitch. Thus why you had more throttle left with the smaller prop.

If it was me I would probably start with the smaller prop or it's equivalent for cupping and go from there. But you make the call, every boat and motor combination is different.

Good luck and again you have a beautiful boat.

Tom

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:41 pm
by wadeg
TomW wrote:When you went down an inch in diameter you effectively went down an inch in pitch. Thus why you had more throttle left with the smaller prop.
I did not actually go down an inch in size. The smaller 12 pitch prop has a larger diameter than the 13 pitch, 13x11.1 vx 12x11.4. That small of difference in diameter should not make a difference though. I believe the rake on the stainless I am looking at combined with the cup and reduced diameter will give me close to what I am after. I believe I need something similar to the Michigan Wheel Apollo at 13x10.5. The slightly smaller diameter will offset the cupping. I also need to play with the engine height as I think it is too low at about 1 inch above the keel.

Thank you all for the good words about the boat.

Shine,

The system three is really not that shiny, it is just a fluke of that picture. I really like how it looks in that pic though. You can see your reflection in the paint, but no where near a clear picture. The gun I used to spray the outside spayed the system three really well though. I did not have near so much luck with spraying the inside though.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:07 pm
by TomW
Okay Wade I see what happened here. Diameter is usually written 1st then pitch in prop terminology. So you have tried a 11.1 x 13 and a 11.4 x 12 pitch prop so far. I gotcha now. So yes, you picked up your rpms with the smaller pitched prop by having less pitch not diameter. The Apollo or similar would be good.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:50 am
by wadeg
TomW wrote:Okay Wade I see what happened here. Diameter is usually written 1st then pitch in prop terminology. So you have tried a 11.1 x 13 and a 11.4 x 12 pitch prop so far. I gotcha now. So yes, you picked up your rpms with the smaller pitched prop by having less pitch not diameter. The Apollo or similar would be good.
I have a request in at powertech now to see what they recommend, so we will see. I definitely need more cup as I primarily fish the shallow salt flats and need to run the motor as high as possible. I am not prop expert though, so any tips are appreciated.

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:52 am
by BassMunn
Wadeg, Congrats! That's one fine looking boat. Ah man I think I'm going to have to build an FS17 they look so cool :D

Over 32mph on a 17ft boat with a 50hp motor on it - Got to love it.

Can you try to get some pics of the boat running, would love to see what it looks like up on plane (or videos if you feel like spoiling us :D )

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:57 am
by TomW
Wade good job going with PowerTech good company to work with. They will get you what you need.

Tom

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:55 pm
by wadeg
BassMunn wrote:
Can you try to get some pics of the boat running, would love to see what it looks like up on plane (or videos if you feel like spoiling us :D )

Here are a couple pics of the boat on plane. They are a ways off though which is why I did not post them. I will try to get some closer ones.
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Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:53 pm
by BassMunn
Cool thanks :D

Looks good up on plane 8)

I feel another case of BBV coming on :lol:

I just went through your pics on Picassaweb, nice work, can't get over what your epoxy coat looked like 8O Very similar layout to what I want to do.
Congrats again on a lovely boat

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:20 pm
by whosmatt
Wadeg,

I've got a question about the TLDI. As I'm getting closer to completing my build, I'm thinking about power and the TLDI is still at the top of my list. My question is about the battery... much is made about the battery requirements for this motor, and I want to know which battery you went with, where you put it in the boat, and what size cable you used. Thanks! Your build looks great; I can't wait to post running pics of my own.

-M

Re: FS17 build in central Texas

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:36 pm
by Prarie Dog
Whosmatt, I used the 50TLDI on my boat and mounted the battery in the RR compartment. These engines come with the harness and controls, the battery leads are appx. 6' long. The guy that rigged my boat said you want the battery as close to the motor as possible, which makes sense. I wanted to put the battery in the center console and told him so, he said if you look at a wire chart with the amperage requirement (850 CCA) you would need a huge power and ground wire that would be expensive.
I used the Optima blue top battery, I think group 27. Their website has a lot of useful info about their batteries. So far the battery has been great, it's only been on the boat about 6 months, so I don't have much history with it. So far like the motor too, when it's idling it's very quiet, revved up it has a kind of whine that is made by the compressor. Have never smelled that two stroke smell, mileage is very good. Grandpa used the boat to check out a remote creek near our place in Texas a couple of weeks ago. He didn't know the creek so he ran the boat slow for a total of 16 miles (gps track) very little of it on plane. Before he parked it he filled it up and it took 2 gallons of fuel. Pretty good mileage for stopping and starting and a lot of idling, he says he thinks the motor ran for about 4 hrs during that slow trip. :D