Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Hi i have recently purchased the panga 22 metric plans as iam in australia , i have never built a boat before and thought it would be a great project , i have some questions about the hull assembly how do you attach the outside ply sheets to the frames when stitching and glueing it together like how do you get the sheets of ply to stick to the frames to take contour of the hull before you glass the joints ? If anyone could help i would really appreciate it cheers tom

You can do it a couple of ways. Either temporary screws or short pieces of FG tape, or a combination of both. I mostly use small hex head decking screws. They have a coating that epoxy won't bond to, and are much easier than a phillips head to drive and remove.

Welcome to the forum! Good to have another Aussie builder here - we should think about having an Aussie Bateau boat builders get-together some time!

I used a plastic cable ties to "stitch" the bottom and side panels to the bulkheads in a couple of places. When its all together, remove the ties and fill the holes with epoxy/wood flour.

Ah i see awsum thanks so much guys for the help really appreciate it so just simply tac it down with some screw to take its shape and glass and glue the joints and once cured remove the screws , yeh we should for sure mate sounds good .

tomcop1990 wrote: how do you get the sheets of ply to stick to the frames to take contour of the hull before you glass the joints ?

Ideally you don't want the ply planking sticking to the frames by any force other than gravity (see your Bateau Plywood Cored Composite Boat-Building Manual pages 22-24). You only use persuasion methods like those described by Cracker Larry and BarraMan as a last resort. What part of Qld are you in? I'm on the Sunshine Coast.

Ok so thats a last resort , so when i lay the ply sheets onto the frames and stitch and glue all the way to the bow the sheets shouldnt lift off from the transom ?

Lets see if this will help you out. lay your bottom panels on the jig holes drilled about every 2 feet for zip ties along the
inside and out side edges. Line the bottom panels up and install zip ties loose, i put two screws in each panel at the transom
to hold it in place.



Next hang your side panels the same way loose with zip ties.

Then slowly tighten all ties and bring panels togeather .

Take your time and make sure everything looks smooth and fair .

so when i lay the ply sheets onto the frames and stitch and glue all the way to the bow the sheets shouldnt lift off from the transom ?

I always use screws to align the sides and bottom with the transom. Sometimes need a few on frames, not usually. Topwater gave of perfect example of how to proceed from there. I lay my bottom panels one on top the other and pre-drill them for the tie wraps down the center, about a hole every foot or so. Then go ahead and put the ties through the holes very loose. Put the whole assembly on the frames and open it like a book.

The only problem with the example Topwater showed is no normal human has a shop that is that clean and neat
I Do not know how to work like that and get something done at the same time
Fuzz

Ok great thanks heaps guys thats really cleared it up for me appreciate it

Also does the bow mold stay in the hull perminently or is it solely there to make the bow shape then removed ? , and once you have stitched the sheets for the hull together how do you apply the glass over the stiches or do you tac it inbetween thd stitches and then remove them and glass the joint ? #

Bow molds are strictly temporary.

After you get it stitched, put spots of glue between every stitch and let it cure. Then remove the stitches, sand the glue smooth and fillet the entire seam. Sand that smooth then tape it. One step at a time. That boat is too big to do it all at once.

Welcome to the forum! Good luck and enjoy the journey. I'm building a Panga as well and will enjoy following your progress! I'm no expert, but am glad to offer any help I can. Keeping your splices as flat as possible will pay dividends later when it comes to "fairing" everything smooth. Post photos along the way!

Ok thanks mate oh great i will post my progress , cheers mate

When joining stringers is it worth scarfing them or just butting them an glassing the join? or just epoxy resin the join ?

The stringers are made from two layers, each several pieces and the seams are offset.
No need for scarphs, epoxy glue the two layers together.

Ok so the staggered pieces glued together should make up the stringer my plan for the pang 22 has measurements for only one stringer it does not have the measurements for the smaller one that is glued onto it or do I just roughly make one smaller by a couple of mm ?

The two layers have the same dimensions.
We abandoned the staggered layers method years ago, it confused many builders.

So ive installed my stringers and center mould and my transom but my jig seems to be 20mm out off square im struggling to bring it back to square as i cant find the problem area which is causing it could someone give some advise as to trouble shoot this .

I have my diagonals even measuring from each corner of the transom to the center moulds corners and they are exact the same but when i measure from the the transom to the mould straight along the stringers theres 20mm difference in length ?

If your diagonals are the same and the measurement from transom face to bulkhead face is 20 mm off
to me means your bulkhead is perfectly square in the wrong place . Move it 20mm and resquare .
I hope this helps and i understood what you were asking.

If the diagonals match. the jig is square but as Topwater says, the mold can be square but 20 mm too much forward or backwards.

Are you measuring from the correct side of the mold? Is it sometimes difficult to read.
Tell us which mold and which side you measure from. And is it 20 mm short or longer?

Thanks guys for the help im measuring from the outside corner of the transom to the inside corner of the 5th mould in the diagonal but im not using marine ply for the moulds and they are slightly warped i think it may have something to do with it

I got the moulds and transom square but now when i place my bottom sheets on there square corner to corrner whith the transom but theres one mould where it sticks out 10mm off one side how do you put photos up so i can explain it better ?

On one side only? Not on the two sides?
What happens on the other sidel?

BTW, you don't have to use the panel to check that, use a long batten.

Which mold is it? It can be square but too high. Check your dimensions and check the height of the mold on the jig.

Both sides but one side is about 5mm more ok il check my heights also when you joiin ur hull and peices together do you use just fiberglass tape up the seem of do you use a large square to cover the area a bit more

I need a picture, please.
What sticks out? The side or the bottom edge?
You should check your dimensions.

To join the panels, we use spot welds made from putty but you must solve that little problem first.

How do i upload photos ? Also my bottom hull sections are on but there are bug gaps where the timber needs to bend how do i go by doing this ?

tomcop1990 wrote:How do i upload photos ?

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 8718[quote]

Also my bottom hull sections are on but there are bug gaps where the timber needs to bend how do i go by doing this ?[/quote]

?

To post a picture: use the upload feature at the "Builder's Gallery", then right click the photo and copy the photo's url address, paste the url into your Panga 22 build thread, then highlight the url and then select "img" from the menu on top. Be sure to use preview to make sure it worked.

Ive tried it just tells me it was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image ? , how do you get the bottom panels of the hull to take shape of the frames ive even kerfed my sheets and there still not taking the contour of the hull

if it helps you can email the pics at gloster as westnet dot com dot au and I'll post them for you.

Bottom panels, at the bow, may not follow the exact curvature of the molds unless you use Okume, strap them over the molds and let sit overnight.
The Pangas have a lot of camber there and you have to accept gaps of more than 1 cm in some cases.

For your pictures, reduce their size first. Use any software to reduce the width a picture to 1000 pixels.
Paint.net is free and very good.

One item at a time:

Mold too wide: that mold is probably correct. Check the width at the chine but if it matches the plans, it is probably the bottom panel that is too narrow. I think I see a kink in there.
That is no problem at all. We recommend a gap of up to 10 mm, that 5 mm difference does not matter.

Camber of bottom panel at bow: it is always difficult to shape the panel perfectly there. As long as the panel is fair, accept the gap BUT in the last picture, I see what looks like a butt block on the outside.
If that is a butt block, the panel will not bend.
Is it a butt block? Why not using a fiberglass splice as the plans say?

Ok il check that mold , the butt block was solely to keep the peices align as i glassed them it it no longer there , on some of my molds i have between 50 to 70mm in gap between them and the hull and when i strap it down it bows out inbetween the molds makes the hull look lumpy ?

Once you are certain that your dimensions and molds height are correct, I would focus on getting a fair smooth bottom panel and not worry too much about the gap between molds and bottom panel.
The PG22 molds show a strong camber and it is difficult to get the panel to conform exactly to that camber close to the bow.
If you use straps, don't let them create a flat, use them with moderation.
Fairness comes first. The boat will be just as good with that gap.

Ok great ive checked the mold that was concerning my it needed to be raised slightly looks great not , alright so allow for the gaps as long as the hull is fair and simetrical i can go ahead and epoxy fillit and glass tape the seams ? , will the moulds sit in the hull ok onces ive turned the hull over if there are gaps ?

Good news about that mold.

No problem with fitting the frames in the hull later. You will have to make adjustment to the shape anyway because of the fiberglass in the corners: chine and keel.

Alright great thanks very much for your help really appreciate it so once my hull is completed and flipped over when it comes time to install the frames i jus adjust them to the hull shape

So I've come to classing the hull when it comes to gel coat are there any tips I could use to achieving a smooth glass like finish and do I need to apply a type of primer coat before applying the gel coat ? Also do I sand the last layer of glass before applying the gel coat ?

Paint, not gelcoat.
The process is simple:
- QuickFair until the surface is fair
- High Build primer like the System Three one and sand down to 300
- paint with an LPU like EMC or Imron, Awlgrip.

That will give you more gloss than any gelcoat and a much harder surface.

Ok so no gel coat what do you mean by sand down to 300?

Also what resin should I use for my glass polyester resin or epoxy resin ?

300 grit sandpaper. Epoxy resin only!

Ok Il use epoxy , also when it comes to marine paint how much will I need to cover the pangas hull roughly

A gallon should do it.

How do i achieve a smooth finish with the glass ?

How do i achieve a smooth finish with the glass ?

You get real friendly with your R/O sander and long board, and about every other sanding method known to man

Larry's the expert, but I wasn't able to achieve an acceptable result on the exterior with anything but the longboard and a helping of elbow grease. Using other methods like the multitool, RO, sandpaper around a dowel, and about ten other approaches for numberless hours on the inside was unavoidable because of the small areas interrupted by frames, seats, and other fittings. Outside looks pretty good; inside is fine from any point of view except mine.
For a "glass-like finish" I'm afraid you will have to have access to a spray booth. You will note that no one has their car painted with a brush and roller. Larry and others have reported success with LPU, which I chose not to use because of the expense. The only experience I've had with applying that was by rolling and tipping and the result, while nice looking, was not "glass-like." But I'm no pro.

Hahah ok cheers guy appreciate the advise , also when you say high build primer is automotive acceptable ?

Would polyester body filler be ok to use to smoothen the surface

Definitely no on the polyester body fill. My understanding is that polyester won't bond well to epoxy. (epoxy will bond to polyester resin, but not the other way around).

Either buy the Quik fair filler, or search the forum for epoxy fairing recipes. I thought it would be a pain to mix my own filler, so ended up buying WAY more quik fair than I should have. In hindsight, all I did was turn hard earned money into hard earned dust

From now on, I will make my own epoxy filler until the "touch up" stage of fairing. Then one or two rounds of quik fair.

Will

Polyester based autobody filler will not bond well to epoxy.
All epoxy based primers will work, most of the other may work.

Looks like we're at the same stage! There is definitely a learning curve along the way. The Malolo Panga 22 thread helped me a great deal.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=180

The journey is as fun as the destination, enjoy the ride!