Have no doubts about the performance: I have been onboard a modified Rescue Minor and she performed as Atkins stated.
I came to love this hull shape in a strange way: I built and owned a 40' sailboat of the Seabright Skiff type. Crossed the Atlantic in her.
This was well before I heard the name Atkins or Seabright Skiff.
Despite her very wide (36") box keel, she was fast on almost all points of sail, had very shallow draft and dried out on her keel.
Years later, I discovered the Atkins tunnel, a development of the Seabright Skiff for power boats.
I would love to design more hulls in that style. With the CAD tools we have today, I can produce drawings for plywood plates for a boat like the River Belle. It would not be my design, the builder would have to buy the Atkins plans and commission me to draw the plates.
River Belle - Atkins design
River Belle - Atkins design
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: ST 21 Noosa Australia
Hi Jacques,jacquesmm wrote:I would love to design more hulls in that style. With the CAD tools we have today, I can produce drawings for plywood plates for a boat like the River Belle. It would not be my design, the builder would have to buy the Atkins plans and commission me to draw the plates.
What's the estimated commission cost for your version of the River Belle?
Re: ST 21 Noosa Australia
Expensive.
It will take me a full week at least and if someone has to pay me the same rate than the local mechanic, that would cost several thousand $.
I would not do it that way.
I would do that work on speculation. That means, I would invest my work in a project that I could resell more than once.
For example, last year, one of our builders asked me to produce a kit for an Atkins design named the Shoreliner, scaled 10%.
I entered the hull in my modeling software, faired and analyzed surfaces then extracted developable panels.
I also adapted the scantlings to epoxy-fiberglass: thinner plywood between many layers of glass. I did a complete weight spreadsheet to stay true to the original design: same weights and centroids.
Since the builder buys a complete kit, about 10K, and wanted only the hull modeled, I did not charge him for the design work.
He will use the Atkins plans for rigging etc. I also take in account that I will probably sell more kits or more plywood plates drawings for that boat . You will see that plan on one of our web sites later this year.
Note that the builder had to purchase the Atkins plans, the original designer must be paid and he needs those plans for the rig, superstructure etc. The Atkins plans do not cost much anyway.
I worked about 40 hours on that project. If he had not bought the kit, I would have charged him about $ 500.00 since I expect to sell more of the drawings over the years.
The River Belle falls in that category. If somebody commits to buy a complete kit, CNC cut plywood and all epoxy-glass and uses the Atkins plans for all other parts of the boat, I'''ll do it for free.
If he does not buy the kit, the cost will be about $ 500.00.
There is a catch for the River Belle and probably for other designs: I don't know if the hull panels are developable. If the boat is designed for plywood, it will work. If not, I may adapt it.
One more thing, like for all other stock plans, I retain the copyright to my work. That means, even if he pays $ 500,00, the builder can not redistribute my work or Atkins work. He paid for a license to build one boat.
It will take me a full week at least and if someone has to pay me the same rate than the local mechanic, that would cost several thousand $.
I would not do it that way.
I would do that work on speculation. That means, I would invest my work in a project that I could resell more than once.
For example, last year, one of our builders asked me to produce a kit for an Atkins design named the Shoreliner, scaled 10%.
I entered the hull in my modeling software, faired and analyzed surfaces then extracted developable panels.
I also adapted the scantlings to epoxy-fiberglass: thinner plywood between many layers of glass. I did a complete weight spreadsheet to stay true to the original design: same weights and centroids.
Since the builder buys a complete kit, about 10K, and wanted only the hull modeled, I did not charge him for the design work.
He will use the Atkins plans for rigging etc. I also take in account that I will probably sell more kits or more plywood plates drawings for that boat . You will see that plan on one of our web sites later this year.
Note that the builder had to purchase the Atkins plans, the original designer must be paid and he needs those plans for the rig, superstructure etc. The Atkins plans do not cost much anyway.
I worked about 40 hours on that project. If he had not bought the kit, I would have charged him about $ 500.00 since I expect to sell more of the drawings over the years.
The River Belle falls in that category. If somebody commits to buy a complete kit, CNC cut plywood and all epoxy-glass and uses the Atkins plans for all other parts of the boat, I'''ll do it for free.
If he does not buy the kit, the cost will be about $ 500.00.
There is a catch for the River Belle and probably for other designs: I don't know if the hull panels are developable. If the boat is designed for plywood, it will work. If not, I may adapt it.
One more thing, like for all other stock plans, I retain the copyright to my work. That means, even if he pays $ 500,00, the builder can not redistribute my work or Atkins work. He paid for a license to build one boat.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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Re: ST 21 Noosa Australia
Hi Jacques,
First, Glossie's thread has been somewhat hijacked by River Belle. Let me know if we need to start a new thread.
Second,$ 500.00 is very reasonable. My time to loft and fair Atkins plans would certainly cost me more than that.
I have Atkin's River Belle plans so what is the next step to get you started on it?
At the rate I'm going with my ST21 I'll be older than Methuselah when I get to River Belle. If this one ends up last on your list of design commissions it's no big deal
First, Glossie's thread has been somewhat hijacked by River Belle. Let me know if we need to start a new thread.
Second,$ 500.00 is very reasonable. My time to loft and fair Atkins plans would certainly cost me more than that.
I have Atkin's River Belle plans so what is the next step to get you started on it?
At the rate I'm going with my ST21 I'll be older than Methuselah when I get to River Belle. If this one ends up last on your list of design commissions it's no big deal
Re: ST 21 Noosa Australia
OK, topic is split, not perfectly but that way we can follow the Australian ST21 progress separately and discuss the River Belle project here.
About design: I"ll do but you will need some patience.
I do the modeling and the calculations, a drafter (James) produces the final drawings.
James is very busy with a new free plan and with a translation of most of the plans to PDF files for Digital Downloads.
To proceed with the modeling of the River Belle, I need a copy of some of the plans sheets:
- lines and table of offsets,
- scantlings (planking specifications) in particular for the plywood version.
- general specifications if present on the plans. Atkins rarely shows displacement and hull weight but I calculate that from the lines plan.
I will fair the lines in 3D. In traditional boat building that is called lofting.
Looking at the Rhapsody in Glue project, it is clear that the hull is developable.
About design: I"ll do but you will need some patience.
I do the modeling and the calculations, a drafter (James) produces the final drawings.
James is very busy with a new free plan and with a translation of most of the plans to PDF files for Digital Downloads.
To proceed with the modeling of the River Belle, I need a copy of some of the plans sheets:
- lines and table of offsets,
- scantlings (planking specifications) in particular for the plywood version.
- general specifications if present on the plans. Atkins rarely shows displacement and hull weight but I calculate that from the lines plan.
I will fair the lines in 3D. In traditional boat building that is called lofting.
Looking at the Rhapsody in Glue project, it is clear that the hull is developable.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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Re: River Belle - Atkins design
OK. So how does this work? Do I send the Atkin's plans to the Vero Beach snail mail address on the home page?
When and how do you want payment?
Patience I have in spades. It's going to be at least two years before I start that build. Let me know when you are ready to start work on this and I can mail the plans.
Captain AB's build process on his comprehensive website and your simplification of the scantlings are a major time and headache saver.
When and how do you want payment?
Patience I have in spades. It's going to be at least two years before I start that build. Let me know when you are ready to start work on this and I can mail the plans.
Captain AB's build process on his comprehensive website and your simplification of the scantlings are a major time and headache saver.
Last edited by JoshuaAhab on Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: River Belle - Atkins design
Address: yes, the one at the website:
E-Boat Inc.
1360 SW Old Dixie
Vero Beach FL 32962
Payment: credit or check to Mertens-Goossens Yacht Design. Why not mail a check with the copy of the plans?
Send it right away, it will be a "fit in between" project at some stages.
i do a better job if I do the main part of a project then let it simmer a little bit . . . get ideas for improvements etc.
Yes, Captain AB's web site is very informative. I wish he would post more pictures.
E-Boat Inc.
1360 SW Old Dixie
Vero Beach FL 32962
Payment: credit or check to Mertens-Goossens Yacht Design. Why not mail a check with the copy of the plans?
Send it right away, it will be a "fit in between" project at some stages.
i do a better job if I do the main part of a project then let it simmer a little bit . . . get ideas for improvements etc.
Yes, Captain AB's web site is very informative. I wish he would post more pictures.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
Re: River Belle - Atkins design
BTW, I am certain you know that but the topsides of the River Belle are lapstrake, 5 laps I think.
The drawings will include the shape of the laps and lap marks on the stations but you will assemble the same way than Rhapsody in Glue. Epoxy laps are easy to do: minimal beveling.
The bottom will be our method: epoxy glass sandwich.
The drawings will include the shape of the laps and lap marks on the stations but you will assemble the same way than Rhapsody in Glue. Epoxy laps are easy to do: minimal beveling.
The bottom will be our method: epoxy glass sandwich.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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Re: River Belle - Atkins design
Can do. It might be a week or two before I get it sent off. I need to make copies. In the event it goes awry in the mail system I'll have the original as back up. My copier is too small so I need to take the plans to a facility with one large enough. I'll make an entry on this thread when it's in the mail.
Thanks Jacques.
Thanks Jacques.
Re: River Belle - Atkins design
Looked again at the Atkins lines I have, from a book and there is no tumblehome, no laps.
I"ll see when I get the lines but it is possible that Rhapsody in glue has modified topsides. I may offer the two, a little bit of flare and tumblehome will not hurt either.
I"ll see when I get the real lines, not what I have here.
I"ll see when I get the lines but it is possible that Rhapsody in glue has modified topsides. I may offer the two, a little bit of flare and tumblehome will not hurt either.
I"ll see when I get the real lines, not what I have here.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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