Steve's FS18

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Jeff
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Jeff »

Nice to have your Grand Dad involved in your build!!! Jeff

Mikem59
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Mikem59 »

Steve,

Build is looking good. Your splice looks real good, mine didn't look that pretty :lol:

Like others have commeted neat that your grandfather is able to help.

Mike

Dutch1
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Dutch1 »

Finished the fiberglass. I took K2's lead and wrapped the sides as well by using the full 50" of fiberglass with a large overlap of the keel. And, I really didn't feel like cutting the entire roll of fiberglass down the middle. If I build another one I'll see if I can get it cut first. I know. It was overkill. BUT, there are rocks the size of cars where this boat will spend a lot of its time and I feel better with the added strength and weight. Some of the large rocks come out of the water 3-4 ft during low tides and they are an ominous reminder of what could be. Others swear the smaller ones move with the tides/storms (and I agree) and I have to go through this area when I'm near shore and fishing that area. https://binged.it/2fUwc4P This is another bay I play around in quite a bit that is FULL of oyster bars/beds. Spend much time around here and you will eventually hit something.

I prepped the hull during the week and on Saturday Grandad came over at 8 and we started the long job of fiberglassing the hull.

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Ready for rounding the corners

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Waiting for Saturday

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I didn't bother taking many pics from this point to the finish. It was a long day.

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Trimmed up and curing.

I've got to give my Grandad some props here. He hung with me until 5PM wetting out the fiberglass. I had to finish it by myself and that was tricky with the temperature dropping fast when it got dark. I had to put the epoxy in a large stock pot with hot tap water to get it to flow and I didn't have much time to work it until it thickened up. It got to the point where the pump would barely work at all. I thought the pump was going bad at first before I realized it was just cold.

I trimmed up the fiberglass with a carpet razor and rolled it out into the sun for a few hours today. It was still tacky when we got home from church and after a few hours in the sun it wasn't tacky at all but I know it still has some curing to do before I start sanding. I plan to start sanding this coming Saturday. If I finish it up I'll start fairing. I'm hunting a cheap/used coffee grinder to grind up the filler for fairing. I saw that on another post and felt it was a good idea.

Now for some questions:
1. Keel- What kind of wood should be used? Has anyone molded their own keel out of an epoxy filler material?

2. Rubrail - Should I stick with the plans and piece together the rubrail with scraps or do you recommend another kind of wood? I can see how the laminated strips would be very strong but also a royal pita to put together. Red Oak, Teak, etc?? What should I stay away from?

3 . Cleats - What kind of wood should I use for the cleats? From the posts I've seen with pics of the cleats they look like cheap pine but I can't tell.

4. Graphite - It's going to more than likely be cool when I paint the graphite on the bottom. In reading other posts they recommend it be as hot as possible. Is that critical or will it be OK? Is that to keep it warm so it will spread well? I can use heaters in the garage if I need to and that will warm it up real good.

Thanks for the help!!

narfi
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by narfi »

Looking good.
What were the temperatures in the evening when you ran into trouble?
Which brand and speed epoxy are you using?

Fuzz
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Fuzz »

Hey Narfi I bet you are wanting to know how cold you will be able to work in. Go to Bateay2.com. In the tutorial section there is one called epoxy cure times. It should give you the info you are looking for. I use only fast hardener and work down to around 50F.

Sorry if this is a hijack Steve.

Fuzz
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Fuzz »

Steve as for spreading the epoxy/graphite mixture I understand the warmer the epoxy is the thinner it will be and it will lay out smoother. also the graphite will mix much easier if the epoxy is warm. Somebody else compared it to trying to mix powered creamer in cold coffee. If the coffee is warm no problem. Not so much if it is cold.
Sorry somebody else will have to help with the other questions.

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topwater
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by topwater »

Don't use red oak for the keel , its way to porous and rot proun . Doug fir or almost any kind of pine will work and be easy to
find , cypress works well and is very rot resistant . whatever you use glass it and it should be good to go.
Novi 23 finally launched !

Dutch1
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Dutch1 »

narfi wrote: What were the temperatures in the evening when you ran into trouble?
Which brand and speed epoxy are you using?
It was around 40 when I started having to go to smaller batches to finish. I could see my breath REAL good and it was definitely too cool for this FL boy in shorts and a t-shirt but I was trying to finish. The epoxy was just cold and didn't take long for it to thicken up but it wasn't curing. That thought didn't even come into my mind. Check out the diagram Fuzz was talking about. A slow hardener in those temps would take a loooong time to kick. Probably somewhere around 100 minutes or so. I was able to go back and roll several feet where I had already worked if I saw a bubble or something so it wasn't kicking. It was just getting thick. Think of trying to wet out thick fiberglass with cold syrup. Then you will get the idea. I wasted epoxy that night but I learned. If it got thick I would throw it out and mix another 6oz batch. I just went to smaller batches to go faster. When it was warm right after mixing it was smooth as butter going through the weave and I had about 5 minutes before it started to thicken up so I worked as quick as I could. I'm very pleased with the epoxy results so far but I should have pulled it in the garage and tried to warm up my work area and the boat. Another lesson learned. . . I used the Marine Epoxy sold here with a slow hardener. Since you are in Alaska I would try to keep it warm where you worked.
Fuzz wrote:Sorry if this is a hijack Steve.

NP at all, we are all in this together! And, thanks for the info. I remember Cracker Larry saying that in another thread. I figured it had to just help it flow but wanted to make sure. I'll go get an electric heater and warm up the garage REAL GOOD before doing the graphite. I'm wondering how much epoxy it will take to graphite the bottom.
topwater wrote:Don't use red oak for the keel , its way to porous and rot proun . Doug fir or almost any kind of pine will work and be easy to
find , cypress works well and is very rot resistant . whatever you use glass it and it should be good to go.
I'm glad I asked because I was leaning towards red oak. I'll see what I can get my hands on around here. Should I primarily stick with pine or cypress?

Dutch1
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by Dutch1 »

I had to go look... The page Fuzz is talking about is here http://bateau2.com/howto/cure_times.php

At 60 degrees it will start to gel at 120+ minutes so who knows how long it would have taken to to start kicking in those temps. Like I said, I worked several feet back a few times if I saw something where I had already been without any issues. I could both roll and use a scraper (piece of plastic) and it didn't give me a minutes trouble. Still a nice finish.

I think I might go ahead and order a jug of fast hardener too! You never know what the weather will do down here. We'll have lows in the 20's and highs around 50 or so by the time I've flipped it and working on the inside. At 50 degrees I'll have around 50 minutes of work time with a fast hardener and that should be more than enough.

And I thought it would be easier waiting for the winter to build this thing. . . I should have started when it was still hot.

K2FS18
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Re: Steve's FS18

Post by K2FS18 »

Dutch, I used western hemlock for my keel and rub rails. Rub rails are laminated with 3 layers of 1/4" that I ripped and planed. I laid one after the other using a brad nailer to hold in place. The brad nails where long enough on the first ply to pull through form the inside, the middle layer they are buried within the wood and the third layer I used longer brads so i could pull through from the inside. This made the job go quick and easy. If I did not have the Hemlock, I would have used cypress.

It seems some guys will glass over their keels while others used it as a sacrificial keel. I choose to glass.

I am currently graphite epoxying. Having a hard time with it laying out smooth. I am picking my days where we have warm temps so my epoxy has a good workability. The rollers are the difficult part. I used the west systems epoxy rollers; total suck. Also used the HD epoxy roller; not as sucky. The West Systems must have some type of chemical in them that is causing the epoxy to fish eye. They also seperate from the roller. Takes two per coat. The HD epoxy roller works better, but the gap in the seam of the roller telegraphs and leaves a line in the finish. Looks like I will need coat number 5 and a new type of roller. Gonna take CL advise and get the premium 3/8" nap for glossy acrylic latex kitchen/bath bath from Lowes.

BTW, nice looking glass layup.

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