Trent's FS14 LS Build
Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Mojosmantra, Thank you for the comments regarding the comparison of SystemThree SilverTip and our MarinEpoxy epoxy!!! Jeff
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Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Another marathon post...I can't seem to do this on a regular basis. Last post was shaping rubrails. Since then:
Prepping for foam, installed the sole butt block. I went about it a bit differently by insetting it into the cleats from frame D to C:
My cockpit is shortened, so rather than spanning again from C to B, the other butt block "thwarts" between the stringers and will double as a backing plate for the the grabrail mount:
Cardboard template for the half sole:
You may start to notice how I have compartmentalized things, essentially extending the stringers up to the deck. At the stern, I cut some access/inspection holes. The XPS foam serves as a dam for the foam and a temporary conduit support:
I made these little "support rings" for a some extra support for the conduit ends:
First foam pour. You can see how I used the "support rings" at the conduit end:
A few more foam pics below, which may raise some eyebrows. I have alot of foam. Probably too much (6 gallons) in all. I'm still not sure if it was the right move or not. It didn't dawn on me until afterwards how much weight, perhaps unnecessary, I added. But I justified it in my mind in a few ways. First, I wanted to deaden the hull. Second, it acts as a great conduit support. At the stern, it provides insulation for my fishbox/livewell. So it's doing alot of good things. Finally, if all of this area was open and available for storage, I would have put stuff in it. I've never had a boat with extra storage space. There always seems to be something you need if there is space to put it in. So, if not foam, then it would undoubtedly been filled with something else. With all that said, I'm still not sure it was the right move, but what's done is done. I've always envisioned her as a giant motorized surfboard and I guess she really is now. One thing is for sure - she will not sink. It will be good to have that confidence when I'm all alone 20 miles in the backcountry.
When I cut the foam, there were areas with some pretty large bubbles. Filling them with epoxy would have taken a ton of neat epoxy, which would have been really expensive and heavy (yes, now I'm concerned about weight). So I did a fill of epoxy & microspheres, which extended my epoxy by about four times. That's why it's white. I still applied a neat coat over that:
Sole dry fit, glue down, and glass:
A day on the water with the dog:
With the sole down, I installed my gunnel supports. I used a "beam" approach, which is a departure from plan. I wanted to sole to be clear of any obstructions and was able to do this because of the shortened cockpit. The initial beam was a 1"x2" laminated with plywood on one side. It had a little flex so I added another layer of ply, which stiffened it up nicely:
Finally, fairing and painting the lockers. Two passes of Quick Fair, one coat of System 3 primer, and two coats of bilge paint. I used Total Bilge, which turned out well but was certainly not a pleasure to work with. Maybe it's the heat, but it tacked up quickly and it was difficult to keep a wet edge. Total Boat calls it an epoxy and it certainly worked like an epoxy - but it wasn't 2-part. It was straight out of the can. I thought epoxy was 2-part by definition?
Can't end without a little fishing. My Dad came for a visit for the first time since COVID. I was more than happy to put him on some fish and I think he was too. In my book, there is nothing more fun than some big Jack and some Juvenile Tarpon...
Prepping for foam, installed the sole butt block. I went about it a bit differently by insetting it into the cleats from frame D to C:
My cockpit is shortened, so rather than spanning again from C to B, the other butt block "thwarts" between the stringers and will double as a backing plate for the the grabrail mount:
Cardboard template for the half sole:
You may start to notice how I have compartmentalized things, essentially extending the stringers up to the deck. At the stern, I cut some access/inspection holes. The XPS foam serves as a dam for the foam and a temporary conduit support:
I made these little "support rings" for a some extra support for the conduit ends:
First foam pour. You can see how I used the "support rings" at the conduit end:
A few more foam pics below, which may raise some eyebrows. I have alot of foam. Probably too much (6 gallons) in all. I'm still not sure if it was the right move or not. It didn't dawn on me until afterwards how much weight, perhaps unnecessary, I added. But I justified it in my mind in a few ways. First, I wanted to deaden the hull. Second, it acts as a great conduit support. At the stern, it provides insulation for my fishbox/livewell. So it's doing alot of good things. Finally, if all of this area was open and available for storage, I would have put stuff in it. I've never had a boat with extra storage space. There always seems to be something you need if there is space to put it in. So, if not foam, then it would undoubtedly been filled with something else. With all that said, I'm still not sure it was the right move, but what's done is done. I've always envisioned her as a giant motorized surfboard and I guess she really is now. One thing is for sure - she will not sink. It will be good to have that confidence when I'm all alone 20 miles in the backcountry.
When I cut the foam, there were areas with some pretty large bubbles. Filling them with epoxy would have taken a ton of neat epoxy, which would have been really expensive and heavy (yes, now I'm concerned about weight). So I did a fill of epoxy & microspheres, which extended my epoxy by about four times. That's why it's white. I still applied a neat coat over that:
Sole dry fit, glue down, and glass:
A day on the water with the dog:
With the sole down, I installed my gunnel supports. I used a "beam" approach, which is a departure from plan. I wanted to sole to be clear of any obstructions and was able to do this because of the shortened cockpit. The initial beam was a 1"x2" laminated with plywood on one side. It had a little flex so I added another layer of ply, which stiffened it up nicely:
Finally, fairing and painting the lockers. Two passes of Quick Fair, one coat of System 3 primer, and two coats of bilge paint. I used Total Bilge, which turned out well but was certainly not a pleasure to work with. Maybe it's the heat, but it tacked up quickly and it was difficult to keep a wet edge. Total Boat calls it an epoxy and it certainly worked like an epoxy - but it wasn't 2-part. It was straight out of the can. I thought epoxy was 2-part by definition?
Can't end without a little fishing. My Dad came for a visit for the first time since COVID. I was more than happy to put him on some fish and I think he was too. In my book, there is nothing more fun than some big Jack and some Juvenile Tarpon...
Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Your work is looking good. Dad looks Happy with that Jack.
Tom
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
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Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Nice work, indeed.
Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!
Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?
Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?
Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!
Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?
Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?
Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Great work! I like how you approached the sole.
It's been interesting to see how between you, Jeff, and myself, we can build the same boat yet make them totally different.
It's been interesting to see how between you, Jeff, and myself, we can build the same boat yet make them totally different.
Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Wow, marathon is right! I used no foam and one thing that stands out is engine noise at certain rpm, the whole boat resonates pretty fierce. also when I smack waves hard, I silently wish I had some foam to help stiffen the bottom panels and make me less paranoid about over-deflection. So def not a bad way to spend 40-50 pounds.
I also switched from system 3 to marine and also didnt notice too much difference, at least with the slow. The fast hardener gave me some headaches early on but I started using it fir glue and filler only and used the slow for wetting and coating, worked great that way. I'm just too slow moving for fast hardener.
Your deck and sole layout is really interesting, looks very well thought out and executed like the rest of your work. Cant wait to see the finished vision.
Is the total bilge a pre catalyzed epoxy? I used a lot of total products and had some good and some not so good experience, I found the primer hard to work with, though I now wish I had worked harder at it as it did provide a good surface once on. I skimped on primer severely.
Awesome on the fishing with your dad, making us green up here!
Keep on!
I also switched from system 3 to marine and also didnt notice too much difference, at least with the slow. The fast hardener gave me some headaches early on but I started using it fir glue and filler only and used the slow for wetting and coating, worked great that way. I'm just too slow moving for fast hardener.
Your deck and sole layout is really interesting, looks very well thought out and executed like the rest of your work. Cant wait to see the finished vision.
Is the total bilge a pre catalyzed epoxy? I used a lot of total products and had some good and some not so good experience, I found the primer hard to work with, though I now wish I had worked harder at it as it did provide a good surface once on. I skimped on primer severely.
Awesome on the fishing with your dad, making us green up here!
Keep on!
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
"Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"
Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.
Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie
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Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Thanks Dan. Yes - the bottom of the cockpit drain is the top of the butt block. Can’t take credit for that - think I first saw it here but I’m forgetting the posters name at the moment.Dan_Smullen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:20 am Nice work, indeed.
Your attitude about the foam is the best way to deal with it. Spend a great deal of time thinking about what will work best, then go for it!
Of all accomplished, the small recess for the bilge drain jumps out at me as a smart feature. The bottom of the recess is the top of the butt block. Right?
Also, great fish! Did Dad catch them all, or did you get on some too?
Dad caught all the big ones and I focused on making sure he got them to the boat…and on dinner since I promised my wife some snapper. We ate well.
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Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
Thanks Jeff - good to hear some real world experience. I was leaning towards a keel - but now that I’ve probably cost myself some draft with extra weight, skegs may be the way to go after all. I’m about 2 weeks out from flipping and will need to make the decision then.VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:38 am "Thinking about a keel/skeg - not convinced yet, but thinking this would be the layout - tapering from bow to stern, stopping short of the transom by 18" per plan suggestion. I like a boat that tracks, but also don't want to lose 1.5" in draft. Any thoughts on that?"
Thoughts on that: My boat has no skeg and last time out I did notice it would slip side-to-side a bit at speed. Seems to corner fine. Cameron and I worked out that you should be able to add a tapering skeg up to about .85 inch without adding any draft due to the low point at the bow being .85 inches lower than the transom low point. If I were back at that stage, that's what I would do. Cameron may be able to give you the offsets for that skeg from his drawing/model.
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Re: Trent's FS14 LS Build
I hear you Cameron. It’s super interesting how they are all so different.
I’ve had some tricked out Jon boats in my past and while I loved the care free indestructible hull, the noise drove me nuts. I think that’s what primarily drove my thinking with the foam - to not have that again.
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