Page 1 of 1

C17 in Washington

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:51 pm
by glcost
Here's the beginning of my build log. I actually started some time ago and moving slowly.

Ordered the plans in the fall of last year. Built a model in November 04, then started researching supplies. I purchased my plywood, Okoume BS1088, locally because of the abundance of supplers, but got the fiberglass kit and other supplies from Jacques. Went with S3 epoxy because I'm familiar with it and they're located 5 miles from my house. An internal battle I've had is whether to purchase locally (because I like supporting local businesses) or from Jacques. However, he quickly won me over.

The next dilemma was where to build it. My workshop is way to small, so I thought I'd use the garage. I've had many a battle at home over this and it still continues. So, I decided (with the help of my wife) to build a bigger workshop. That effort has become a mess due to the local city government (trying to get a building permit). Well, I became very impatient and got tired of delaying this project. So I started cutting and splining the frames and panels. Over the July holiday, I build the strongback and placed the frames and panels. As you can see from the pictures, I weased my way into the garage but there are restrictions: no chemicals or sanding!

Today I started glueing the hull panel joints. Yes, it involves epoxy. Hell yes, she was pissed. I'll be ordering a portable shelter this week and move the operation to it.

Here's one of the pictures that I posted.

Image

That's all for now.

George

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:07 pm
by Lackofdistinction
Try This site for a portable shelter Teksupply.com

Bought a couple of the little carport shelters for storage some poles and a couple tarps and (whalla)

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:43 pm
by Rick
Hey, George, let us know when you need help rolling the boat over. There are a lot of Bateau builders in the Sound area.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:41 pm
by glcost
Lack...,
Thanks I'll take a look at them.

Rick,
Sure, I'll let you know. I have a nice patch of grass to do the roll.

Is anyone planning on going to the Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend? It 's on the weekend of Sept 10th.

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:39 am
by Copro
Put that strongback on wheels!! I always push mine outside to sand. That way I can share my love with the neighborhood. It only take a second for the blower to make much dust disappear. Make sure you rinse off the wifes hedges however.

Jody

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:04 pm
by fishingdan
I agree with Copro. On wheels is the only way to go.

You can sand virtually dust free. Use decent (not the cheapest and not necessarily the best) power sanders with dust collection ports. Attach the ports to a good shop vac with the appropriate dust filter. Clean the filter regularly.

Also wear ear protection. Shop vac + power tool inside a garage is loud enough to cause damage.

After a year long building effort, I had more dust from mixing fillers than I had from sanding.

The boat looks great. Keep up the good work!

Dan

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:22 pm
by glcost
Yeah, I have a set of casters sitting on my workbench which will go on tonight. Wanted to get the hull joints glued first before moving around. Plan to roll the hull out into the driveway to do any sanding or fiberglassing.

There's already a hint that fall in coming. I can feel a coolness in the day air so the rain will be here soon enough. I'll need a temperary shelter to get any work done at that point.

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:44 am
by WobblyLegs
Hi George,

It's nice to see another progress log of the C17 running.

It looks like you're progressing a bit quicker than I have been - what I wouldn't do to have an indoor work area. And it took me the whole of last winter to persuade SWMBO to allow me to build in (an destroy?) her garden... :roll:

Anyway, I'll be following with interest.

Best of luck.

Tim.

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:28 pm
by glcost
This weekend I applied fiberglass tape to the keel, chine and transom hull joints. Since it was a pleasant 60-something degrees (F) and mostly sunny outside, the taping and wet-out went fairly smooth. I was using medium hardener so there was plenty of time before the epoxy started to kick allowing a relaxed work pace.

Ahead of time, I built a long, narrow, open box from plywood, 4' x 7", for wetting out the tape before applying to the hull. This worked quite well.

After applying the tape, I overlay 3mil plastic to help smooth the seams. I had a few spots where the fiberglass kept lifting on an edge and I found the plastic really help at hold it down.

After starting this log, I always wanted to go back and briefly explain the building of the strongback and hull panels, so I'm throwing it in at this point.

I pretty much followed the building notes to make the strongback. I built the base from 2x8’s – 18 feet long by about 32â€

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:43 am
by WobblyLegs
Looking very nice, George.

You have a good looking (half) hull there - you must be feeling very pleased with yourself at this stage - I know I was.

Tim

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:32 pm
by glcost
Thanks Wobbly,

Yeah, can't wait to get the hull fiberglassed and the upper hull sides on.

Sorry to here you have to wait till spring on your C17.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:31 pm
by glcost
Didn't get as much done as I hoped this weekend, but now have the FG cloth cut and laid on the hull.

I put plastic down on the garage floor, unrolled the fiberglass cloth, cut a 18' length, rolled up the cut length, then unrolled on the hull and trimed it. The blue tape in the photos marks where the upper hull panel will be. I plan on having the biax cloth cover up to that panel.

FYI: on the classic hulls, the sides are made from 2 hull panels. I only have the lower side panel installed. After fiberglassing and fairing, I'll add the upper panel. The first photo in this log shows the hull with both side panels temperarily placed.


Image

Image

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:17 pm
by DrBones
Looks like a great job and clean work! :P

I checked out your photos. Make sure you have no areas where folds can develop in the FG cloth when you apply the epoxy. Over large areas that can become a pain which is only aleviated by slitting the wet cloth to roll out the air underneath it. This especially in reference to the corners where the FG cloth transitions from the side panel to the transom. There you ought to slit the cloth and possibly trim it before you wet it.

Also keep an eye on that top seam (the one that's somewhat frayed) and use a roller to roll it flat when the epoxy goes 'green'. - It'll save you major sanding/fairing later on. Believe me, you will curse any FG transition areas that you didn't pay attention to early on.

The additional cloth actually will accentuate any FG tape that is already underneath it, creating 'humps' - if you will - that will add to the fairing job at the end. My headache were the ones on the side/hull panels, especially when it came to attaching the second set of panels. No big deal in the end (you can't see it now on the finished boat), but if I would've been more carefull early on, it would've been easier. Fairing uses up lots of epoxy and silica/microballoons..and generally one application isn't enough..so it also involves a lot of labor...even if it's a labor of love ;)

Oh..and my recommendation on large area epoxy jobs: I would NEVER want to do that alone! It took my son and me about 6 hours w/no breaks to do the bottom of the OD16. A slower curing epoxy is also a good thing when you do that since you can mix up larger batches. With the temps in Washington atm shouldn't be too hard. But to be on the safe side, increase your batch size incrementally, since larger batches in a tub also 'kick' faster than smaller ones.

Good luck and happy expoxy slinging! :D :P

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:18 am
by OzzyC
Looks good sir. I hope that Greg and I can get the seams on his GT23 taped in a week or two.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:33 pm
by glcost
DR,

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunitely (or fortunitely however you look at it) I work by myself so I'll need a full day to slop on the epoxy.

I think I have trimmed the cloth enough that it will lay flat after wet-out. There are a few wrinkles, but I've found you can work them out easily when applying epoxy. But I have been in the position before where it doesn't and you have to cut a slit when the cloth is wet... not easy to do at that point. I like using a paint roller to apply epoxy and that helps to flat it out.

I agree, getting the edge of the cloth (or tape) to lay flat is always a pain.


Wobbly,

I believe you work by yourself too. How long did it take to epoxy your hull?

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:39 pm
by Copro
For my two big glassing sessions (inside and out) I worked at night while it was cooler and elicted my wife to help mix while I spread. Can't imagine doing it completly alone. Find yourself a blender for a couple of hours. It'll help a lot.

Just my 2 cents
Jody

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:47 pm
by JASmine
GL..I also work by myself and my technique for laying the wide cloth was similiar to yours..
I first cut the cloth as you have so that it 'fits' where I wanted..including corner slits as necessary.

Next I rolled on the epoxy on half the hull surface using a foam roller (white).

Then I let the epoxy set up until it was just about dry to touch.

Then I layed the cloth on the epoxy and moved it around until it was in the right place. This is tricky with a 15-20 ft piece of 50" cloth.

Then I wetted out the cloth with a roller and squegee..working QUICKLY!!

Then I rested..and did the other half.

Good Luck

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:49 pm
by glcost
My wife stays away from boatbuilding like it's the plague. I'm going to have lots of pre-measured cups of resin and hardener, then all I just have to combine and stir.

I'm not planning on saturating the hull plywood with epoxy before laying down the cloth.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:26 pm
by Lackofdistinction
Why?

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:37 pm
by tech_support
glcost wrote:I'm not planning on saturating the hull plywood with epoxy before laying down the cloth.
Just so you know, this could lead to the wood sucking up some of the epoxy - leaving a resin starved laminate.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:17 pm
by WobblyLegs
glcost wrote:Wobbly,

I believe you work by yourself too. How long did it take to epoxy your hull?
George, it took me about 2.5 hours for the first side, and about 1.5 for the second - you know how it goes: once you get into the routine, things happen quicker...

Out of interest, what weight cloth are you using? It looks like it hangs down the sides easier than mine did (450g cloth).

Also, I didn't extend mine over the transom, but looking at the way your cloth is hanging, I would (next time) do it that way.

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:29 pm
by WobblyLegs
glcost wrote:My wife stays away from boatbuilding like it's the plague. I'm going to have lots of pre-measured cups of resin and hardener, then all I just have to combine and stir.

I'm not planning on saturating the hull plywood with epoxy before laying down the cloth.
Mrs Wobbly is quite helpful sometimes, as long as it doesn't involve getting sticky.

As to your measured cups: I've been using the West system with pumps, so mixing has been really easy - four squirts of resin, four squirts of hardener, mix 'n pour...
Shine wrote:
glcost wrote:I'm not planning on saturating the hull plywood with epoxy before laying down the cloth.
Just so you know, this could lead to the wood sucking up some of the epoxy - leaving a resin starved laminate.
This might be the case, but my wet-on-dry worked fine, being quite generous as to the amount of epoxy I spread. Keep an eye out as you near the end of one section on where you started to see if it needs a bit more added. Easily done.

Regards,

Wobb.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:31 pm
by Rick
glcost wrote:My wife stays away from boatbuilding like it's the plague.
I have a two teenage boys with experience building three boats for rent.

Reasonable rates! And they won't drink your beer, either!

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:37 pm
by glcost
Just so you know, this could lead to the wood sucking up some of the epoxy - leaving a resin starved laminate.
Yeah, I am aware of that Shine. I'm not doing this to reduce the amount of epoxy used, but to reduce the number of steps. Also, I hate laying out the fiberglass cloth on a tacky surface. I always make a mess of the cloth and can't get it to lay right.

I've never been stingy when applying epoxy too.

Do you not recommend laminating this way?

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:59 pm
by WobblyLegs
George,

Another thing to keep in mind with the time it took me: I did mine on a very warm day (30ºC or so), so the epoxy was very thin. If you're working at lower temp's your epoxy will be thicker, so it's going to take you longer (but you also get more working time...).

T.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:29 pm
by glcost
Rick, Thanks for the offer, but I'm gone pass. When it comes down to it, I just like working by myself! It's part the therapeutic reward for me.

Wobbly, The cloth is 12oz (340gm?) which I bought from Jacques and company. Looks like it might be lighter weight then you used. Yeah, I've never had problems with wet-on-dry lamination either. Like you said, keep an eye on previously worked sections and add a bit more if needed. I find the paint roller works well for wet-on-dry lamination too.

I liked using the pumps too, but when they got older stopped metering correctly. So I've been mixing with cups now. When you start up in the spring, remember to check your pumps.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:33 pm
by Rick
glcost wrote:Rick, Thanks for the offer, but I'm gone pass. When it comes down to it, I just like working by myself! It's part the therapeutic reward for me.
Heh. I forgot you were just down the Interstate. It supposed to be a joke.

They have gone from being a "helper" to really being a help. It's been fun. We finished the 2005 canoe project in just a few weeks of part-time work because they can actually help now.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:17 pm
by glcost
Rick wrote:Heh. I forgot you were just down the Interstate. It supposed to be a joke.

They have gone from being a "helper" to really being a help. It's been fun. We finished the 2005 canoe project in just a few weeks of part-time work because they can actually help now.
You should be proud of yourself for passing down your handy-work skills to your kids. It's the one thing I regret not doing with mine.

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:54 pm
by glcost
Yesterday was a brillant day here in Tacoma, WA, so I spent it laminating the outside of the hull. Since it was still a little cool in the morning, I placed a couple space heaters under the hull to warm up the plywood panels. After mixing my first batch of epoxy, it was a little too thick, I warmed up the jugs with the heaters too. In all, the work went smoothly and I'm very pleased with the results.

I spent about 1.5 hours getting everything prepared; putting down plastic, wiping down the hull with acetone where epoxy had already been applied, gathering supplies, etc... Working on my own, it took me about 1-3/4 hours to laminate the first side. Then I waited for the epoxy to harden enough so the cloth on the opposite half wouldn't stick too badly at the overlap. I think the second half took about 2 hours to laminate. I found this half to be a little more difficult because the overlap being tacky and not allowing the cloth to flow as well. Once complete, I applied a filler coat of epoxy. I used about 240 oz of epoxy to do it all.

To laminate, I placed the FG cloth for one side on the dry hull (I didn't saturate the plywood panels first). Then mixed up 12 oz of epoxy and poured on to a local area of the hull and spread it with a 7" paint roller. Then went over it with a squeegee. I started at the transom and working forward one section at a time. If a previously done sections looked light on epoxy, I'd roll on some more.

Here's a few pictures of the results:

Image
Image

Image

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:02 pm
by Rick
So, George, why did you leave the tape on after you wet out the epoxy? I would have thought that you would want to wet the edges, too. Of course, you may have removed it right after you took the pictures, so forget I asked.

I'm sure I'm speaking for all PNW bpoers that we are looking forward to rides on opening day next summer.

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:00 pm
by glcost
Rick wrote:So, George, why did you leave the tape on after you wet out the epoxy? I would have thought that you would want to wet the edges, too. Of course, you may have removed it right after you took the pictures, so forget I asked.

I'm sure I'm speaking for all PNW bpoers that we are looking forward to rides on opening day next summer.
Openning boat day, lets see, that's 6 or 7 months away. No, no, no, way is that gonna happen. Now don't be pressing me Rick:) I'm hoping to take her out to Neah Bay in late August for kings, silvers, halibut, ling and rockfish, and I think that's pushing it.

I put the tape on as a reference for cutting the cloth and to keep it off the area where the upper side panels mount. It worked well for that. Only had a few unraveled ends laminated onto the tape that had to be cut before removing it. On the transom didn't need the tape other than for cutting the cloth neatly. I should have removed it before hand. As you can see in the photos, the cloth edge finished on top of the tape so I had to cut it to remove the tape. Of course it leaves an abrupt edge. But since I plan on laminating 6oz woven cloth on the upper panels and rest of transom it shouldn't cause much extra work.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:11 pm
by glcost
Started fairing the bottom of hull this weekend, but didn't get much done. I can see this will take some time, so there'll be a bit of a dry spell for photos.

George

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:09 pm
by WobblyLegs
George,

Any news?

T

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:42 pm
by glcost
Hi Wobbly,

I have been around, but not much to report. Too many other projects getting in the way. I have been watching your's and Louis' progress. It's awesome work you're doing.

George

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:39 pm
by Spokaloo
George, are you still out there? Did the C ever get finished? I absolutely NEED to see one of these in the flesh, and Id be willing to cruise all the way to Tacoma to have a look-see.

Thanks!

E

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:28 am
by Rick
Spokaloo wrote:George, are you still out there? Did the C ever get finished? I absolutely NEED to see one of these in the flesh, and Id be willing to cruise all the way to Tacoma to have a look-see.
Hey! I asked first!