HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

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narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

Jaysen wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:18 pm
For you and your crew, if you are planning on just one sail, just work then CoE on the sail, then plant the CoR under it. Given how small the whole thing is, I would be tempted to just run a skeg down the keel of each outrigger with a leeboard on the canoe (at CoE) if you find it is needed.
VT_Jeff wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:24 pm As you move the CoE forward and aft, you're going to add helm, lee and weather(edited, I think it's right now...) respectively. So under jib alone, CoE moves forward, more Lee helm. Main alone, CoE moves aft, more Weather helm. A safe boat should have some weather helm so in case you fall off, it will circle you like a jetski(not really).

I would get the mast and the outriggers on, clamp a leeboard to the canoe and sail it for a while on different points of sail, move the board around, see what feels good. I think Jaysen recommended about the same.

Awesome project BTW!
The thought was to play with it with the mainsail till I got bored and if it was successful buy a matching 420 jib and play with it getting it all setup as well, in my mind it was less of a learning curve doing one at a time....... But maybe I should commit to a plan?

I think the skeg idea with temporary leeboard before placing daggerboards is the wisest idea and I will probably talk myself into it, however it would be nice to get trunk and boards in during the building stage instead of as a planned afterthought.



VT_Jeff
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by VT_Jeff »

Mmmm. I see the dilemma now. Multiple mast locations may be the simplest route in that case, some wooden boat guys do that so they can adjust the mast location for when they do/don't use a mizzen, as an example. If you add a jib, mast moves back.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

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Jaysen
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by Jaysen »

narfi wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:03 pm But maybe I should commit to a plan?
Yes. No.

Yes. You should commit to a plan. You should have a sail plan so you can make the educated decisions for your modifications.

No. You don't need to commit to a plan. You built the hulls. You can change it ALL later.

Make sense?
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

Amazon still hasn't shipped the router bits I ordered last month. The joy of living off the grid....... Can't walk down to the hardware store when I want something 'right now'.

Got bored yesterday and cut the mating faces of my test halves and drew a preliminary profile on it, I'm pretty happy with it I think, will see how it all goes together once I have the bits I need.
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narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

Got the test piece finished and slit the track open on the back. Freehand on the table saw I couldn't even stay straight for 8 inches so will need to make a good jig for the real thing.....

The bolt rope slides well in it and holds firm as does the top slug and the foot slugs.

I'm happy with it!
When making the long pieces I will let the inside glass cure before bonding the halves together. This will serve two purposes. 1. No fear of it sagging down from the top half while curing. 2. I can sand the center section smooth to prevent abrasion if I decide to run the lines up the inside. The cotton string holding the glass tape together stands up kind of sharp when wetted with epoxy, so I can sand that smooth without compromising the glass(which is probably overkill anyways)

I weighed the test piece at 450g and 8.25 inches long. So a 21ft length should weigh about 30.5lbs. seems kind of heavy, but no problem for me to muscle around and the canoe can hold it, so for a fun experiment project it should work fine.

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VT_Jeff
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by VT_Jeff »

narfi wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:21 pm Got the test piece finished and slit the track open on the back.
Really impressive, Narfi, nice work! And now you know how to make your airplane wings.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

VT_Jeff wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:40 pm Really impressive, Narfi, nice work! And now you know how to make your airplane wings.
hehe, if I made an aircraft part that heavy....... o.0
The plane I am building is aluminum, so a different material and method completely. However I would love to build some composite wings some day, would just need to be much much lighter and more controlled than this :P

VT_Jeff
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by VT_Jeff »

narfi wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:48 pm
VT_Jeff wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:40 pm Really impressive, Narfi, nice work! And now you know how to make your airplane wings.
hehe, if I made an aircraft part that heavy....... o.0
The plane I am building is aluminum, so a different material and method completely. However I would love to build some composite wings some day, would just need to be much much lighter and more controlled than this :P
:lol:

Just being a wise-ass, as you probably guessed. It is a nearly perfect foil shape though! I am planning on building a sail/row boat next and the thought of a birds-mouth mast has me a little.....petrified, but your experiment is giving me ideas and maybe a little courage. People make them solid also, but the birds-mouth is pretty cool.

Can't wait to see that rig screaming with the rail buried, keep up the great work!
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

Good comedy sometimes requires the straight man, right? That's what I was trying :P
In other words, its all in good fun for me too.

The birdsmouth looks interesting, but intimidating. The thing with any of these is they really are simple, it just seems difficult till you get down to doing it, then you wonder why you were ever afraid of it to start with :P

If I was going to go into this with a new construction knowing what I know now and buying all the supplies up front.... I would strongly look into doing just like I am now, but instead of wood and glass using foam and unidirectional carbon. I think it could be built just as simple, yet much much lighter. It is so easy to build up the two halves and bond them together and profile them to any shape you want. I just don't know the engineering to know how much carbon and how thick for the foam of what density, etc....

narfi
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Re: HC14 to Sailing Trimaran!

Post by narfi »

So I made up the 2 halves of the mast and 2 halves of the boom. Currently 23ft and 12ft I will cut down to whatever I decide on final lengths.........
Brought over a bunch of clamps, but most of them were 1/2" short :/ so wasn't able to clamp it all as much as I would have liked, but checking this morning it turned out fine :)

Was thinking I would start long, always easier to cut something down than add to it.... So perhaps I'll cut them to 470 class dimensions instead of 420 as that is also a cheap and easy sail set to buy used. If I am happy with this setup I'll trim it all down to match, or if I decide I want to upgrade after a season I still have that option......

Thinking about daggerboard placement and balance, I thought up a Rube Goldberg solution where I build the cases 3x too long and wide enough to fit another case inside, then I can play with balance shimming the 'removable' case fore and aft to compare characteristics...... Still thinking about it.

Found some bs1088 mereniti at a local (anchorage) hardware store and bought out their last 5 sheets of 4mm and 1 sheet of 6mm. It's so much cheaper than okoumme, I hope it works ok.

Got my order from Jeff and Reid, some glass and tapes and epoxy and more importantly for yesterday wood flour to glue these mast halves up with.

Snowed AGAIN last night, it is a winter nightmare here, car hasn't been out of our driveway since Thanksgiving and the honda barely gets out on its own tracks, even it's packed down trail is probably a foot above ground right now..... Only reason it can still make it is because it's light enough to go on top of what it packs down each fresh snowfall.

Breakup is going to be a nightmare this year, worried about flooding in the basement and I'm sure the tent is going to be a mudhole for a while as well.

Did get more info on our plane though, so we will be able to stay busy till it's warm enough to do epoxy work.
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