Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

As promised I've added a few pics of the VG23 construction to the gallery. Apologies for the quality - the camera and the photographer's 'skillz' are equally responsible

I'm building in the hayloft of a horse stable and the topic of conversation around the farm as of late is how I'm going to get it down once construction is complete. This shot should give you an idea of where its going to have to go:


The entrance way is the area all the sunlight is coming from on the right side of the photo (behind the ladder) - it's about 10 or 12 feet down. I've got a few rough ideas but figure I'll be better motivated once I actually have the boat built.

As I mentioned in a separate post asking a few building related questions I'm beginning to temp install the framing in the cable tied hull in order to shape it. I'm having a great time so far and hope all the upcoming sanding you more experienced builders talk of won't crush my "newbie enthusiasm".

If anyone has any advice or sees anything I seem to be doing wrong please point it out. I'm not too proud to admit that I'm pretty clueless (atleast regarding boatbuilding) . I'll do my best to update as I progress. Perhaps my photography will improve with along with my building.

Cheers,
A.

edit: Here's a link to the gallery if more shoddy pics interest ya:
http://gallery.bateau2.comindex.php?cat=12054

okay, I am salivating now... Keep sending us your pictures..

I have always loved the lines of the VG23.. I am hoping the VG27 is just as impressive.

Can you take a couple pics with humans in the picture, so we can
get a good feel for the size of the boat.. It sure does look like a good size boat right now..

andrew lucking wrote:I'm building in the hayloft of a horse stable and the topic of conversation around the farm as of late is how I'm going to get it down once construction is complete.

I think it would be easier to get the horses to live upstairs than to get that boat down.

ArizonaBuilder wrote:Can you take a couple pics with humans in the picture, so we can get a good feel for the size of the boat..

I shall try to lure someone up into the loft next time I'm building. That is actually a brilliant ruse as folks are starting to catch on to the fact that they get put to work each time they venture up. Now I can get an extra pair of hands under the guise of requiring a "model" for a photo.

In the meantime here's a shot of the beam on my mug after the chine panels were installed. If it helps at all with proportions the horizontal support of the two mid frames in the basket are an 8 foot 2x4.


Thanks for the encouragment Terry!

ChrisObee wrote:I think it would be easier to get the horses to live upstairs than to get that boat down.

LOL. It really would be the least they could do seeing as how they have such big plans for sailing adventures once its complete.




Cheers,
A.

I have always been thoroughly amazed at how quickly the Vagabonds shape up into a boat. Keep up the great work!

Nice work space, I cant wait to see the pictures of the boat coming down.

Great work, and great work space.
Don't worry about taking the boat down, concentrate on building it. Once your friends and family see the boat taking shape I'm sure they will have lots of ideas about how to take her down.

Happy building!
JG

worst case scenario.....rip the barn roof off and crane it out. rebuild roof with new found wood working experience.....

Leave the barn door open this winter and slide the boat down the resulting snowbank.

Thought I'd post a quick progress update.

The hull panels all around have been glued / welded. I'm thinking about adding a few small pieces of fg tape in some strategic locations as well once the glue has set up. The transom has also been glued in place - its a nice milestone but damn I have to do some climbing to get in and out of the hull now Atleast it's stopped me from putting tools down on the hull and banging up the plywood. I've also added the first layer of tape on the inside of the bow.

Alas, I've forgotten about the camera the last few times out so no new photos. Not that you need a jpeg to imagine a mess of "putty" smeared about the hayloft. Oh, for those who find themselves in a similar predicament - I've found that scissors do an excellent job of removing epoxy from hair.

Cheers,
A.

Well, I managed to remove the framing, sand the hull and get a good part of it taped up this weekend.

Here's a shot after sanding:


You'll notice how I "hooked" the side panels with some scrap plywood to help them keep their shape. I was actually quite amazed at how sturdy it is even before taping any of the seams.

I 've uploaded a few more pics to the gallery:
http://gallery.bateau2.comindex.php?cat=12054

Cheers,
A.

I've found that scissors do an excellent job of removing epoxy from hair.

no... I'm not going to say anything...

ks

ks8 wrote:

I've found that scissors do an excellent job of removing epoxy from hair.

no... I'm not going to say anything...

ks

lol, how could ya when we have evidence like this KS?



It was such a nice evening here in Montreal I decided to spend a few hours in the loft and finished filleting and taping the seams. I must say my fillets are nowhere near as pretty as those in the pics in KS's gallery. Anyway, looks like I've some more sanding to do on the weekend.

Cheers,
A.

ZING!



Fillets have to do their thing... they don't have to be pretty. But they get better with more practice. Chine fillets, I think, on your boat, like mine, will never be seen anyway... they only have to be strong, not perfectly faired.

Remember, some of my fillets were sloppy first, then cured, ground, and then I added a bit more material and laid on the glass wet-on wet. It's almost cheating. I guard my trick back. So if I can't get it done wet-on-wet immediately, all at once, I just let a small and *not quite so pretty but strong enough* fillet cure, then grind a bit and finalize it as stated above. But it takes time and a bit more epoxy. The gallery captions summarize.

It looks like you are going to love that vagabond! Go to it!

I'll have to be more careful what pictures I post!

Have you decided how to get the boat out of the barn yet??? Any barn swallows signing your work???

Sincerely,
ks

ks8 wrote:I'll have to be more careful what pictures I post

Yikes, don't do that. I for one enjoy looking at pics of the way it should be done The workmanship demonstrated in some of the photos of the various builders here really is inspiring.

Heh, heh, the birds have a favourite roosting spot directly above the bow. A tarp will definitely be required over the winter or I'll need a shovel come next spring.

As for getting her out, the "suggestion of the week" has been to seal off the the alleyway below and fill it with water. I'm still in "negotiations" with my folks who own the stable as to the amount of structural damage permitted. :lol:

Cheers,
A.

Hi Andrew

I'm in Plattsburgh area, not too far from you. When your ready to get he down post here or e-mail me and I'll come up.

Eric

Eric,

That would be awesome if you could make it up! I should warn you the stable where I'm building is actually located about 45 mins. north of Montreal. I will definitely get in touch with plenty of advance notice before hand but suspect with the present rate of progress, (not to mention "funding"), it won't be for atleast a year or two.

Man, this group is fantastic.

Cheers,
A.

I don't know what all the barn is used for, but in case you haven't thought of it I'd caution you about letting the sanding dust get all over in the barn. If there's feed in the barn (such as hay bales, etc.) or if there are animals kept in the barn, the fiberglass laden dust will get all over them and will make life miserable for the animals.

I highly recommend using a shop vac attached to your sanders to suck up all of the dust right away. That dust gets EVERYWHERE. Hanging tarps help, but arn't perfect unless you really tape them off well.

And I wish I was your neighbor. I'd love to help with the boat and where you live sounds beautiful.

jason

Hi Jason,

You raise a good point. I've been covering the small pile of straw in the loft with a tarp when sanding but you can never be too cautious with these things.
Conveniently for me the feed and bedding is now stored in a separate hayshed (that coincidently my brother and I built a few years back). I like the shop-vac idea...

...where you live sounds beautiful.

Do me a favour and remind me of that one January afternoon when you come in from a day on the Florida waters

Cheers,
A

I lived in Minnesota for the first 34 years of my life. I actually like the change of seasons over what south florida has (hot and hotter). But now that I have a boat, the little lakes of minnesota pale in comparison to the water available down here.

The fiberglass dust is pretty annoying stuff. I'd shower after sanding, but I'd still be itching from the fibers until I fell asleep. And if I didn't change the sheets, I'd feel the itch the next night even if I didn't do any sanding.

jason

The shop vac is the only way to go. I will never use a sander without it again. The only dust I had was from using a grinder (not very often). If I could find a way to hook the vacuum to the grinder, I would do that to.

fishingdan wrote:I will never use a sander without it again.

I live in a fairly fussy neighborhood and I was concerned about people getting upset about the sander noise. I didn't want to take the chance of the homeowners associating coming down on me and not being able to finish the boat, so I skipped the shopvac just to keep the noise down as much as I could. Now I've (still) got dust all over my garage. I suppose I should have built an enclosure around the shopvac to reduce the noise. Live and learn.

a quick little note i learned from fiberglass installing in attics...take a cool shower instead of warm or hot. the cooler, the better. the warm water open up your pores and lets the 'glass get even deeper or not let it rinse off. cool water, no washcloth. just lather up with a bar of soap and let the water rinse you off. it doesn't get every piece of fiber off but it does get most. it take some getting used to the cool water, i slowly get in. but it's worth it when it's time to climb in bed

I suppose I should have built an enclosure around the shopvac to reduce the noise.

Once built one for a noisy pool filter... called it *the silencer*... it did a great job! You can also buy several hose extensions if it will let you put the shop vac in a shed. I then run my power to a surge protector with switch in the boat, for ease in turning it on and off for short blasts.

I second the cool or cold shower trick. Works great, and boosts the circulation!

sincerely,
ks

In the two year process of building Just Right, I "Used Up" two Shop Vac cleaners. The fiberglass dust seemed to creep into the motor bearing.

I tried to build an intermediate water trap which helped to some extent.

There are commercial grade shop vacuums that are designed for dry wall contractors but are expensive.

Notice that I didn't use "Shop Vac" in referring to the cleaners except to identify the ones that eventually failed. I replaced the Shop Vacs with a Rigid vac sold by Home Depot. I chose that brand for several reasons. They hipe the motor as being made by Emerson and guarantee the motor for ever. I figure that I can use the warantee if it conks out. Second reason is that they sell a special filter which is supposed to be better for fine dust. I am still using the filter that came with the cleaner so I can't vouch for it. Like the paint sprayer I bought after completing the boat, I haven't tested either device on a heavy duty project.

It is tough to get rid of FG dust entirely so realizing that, I wore a dust mask anytime I was sanding. I was able to open the garage door when ever I was working, particularly with solvents. I have a fan in my shop which I hope will take out some of the dust and fumes.

With the usual precautions, I have been able to complete four epoxy bonded boats without getting sensitized. And, I am still alive! And I still have all my fingers!

Time for another quick progress report:

I have about half of the inside of the hull glassed now. I had to pack up part way through wetting the fg cloth one day and have a few decent sized "bubbles" where I started up again. My plan is to grind 'em out and patch as required. Does that sound like the best approach? I know a photo would be helpful but as per usual the camera slipped my mind.

Once I've finished putting the cloth down inside the hull is there any point to "filling the weave" with another light coat of epoxy? I think most of it will be covered with framing and furnishings etc but am curious as to some of your thoughts on this...

Cheers,
A.

My thoughts:

If it’s an internal area that won’t be seen, then getting the bubbles out isn’t that critical. You’ll pretty much lose all structural strength from the area with the bubble, so whether or not you can live with it depends on where it is and its size. If it’s a bubble the size of a quarter over 100 square feet of area, then I’d say you can safely ignore it. But if it’s several inches in diameter at a critical joint, then you’ll want to fix it.

If it’s an external surface that’ll be visible, you run the risk of it cracking the paint, so you’ll want to fix it.

As far as fixing, if it’s not too big you can just make a cut and fill it in with epoxy, or grind it off as you say. Grinding it off will generally be the strongest way to fix it.


I’d like to know the pros and cons of filling in the weave with epoxy as well. I filled in my wave with fairing compound, which took a lot of compound. I’d have believe that it would have been stronger with the epoxy though, and I think that I read later in the S3 literature that you should go back and fill in the wave with epoxy. I think that initially you want as little epoxy as possible to get the cloth as close to the wood as possible, but then later you want to fill in the wave with more epoxy. But I don’t know for sure.

jason

Now is the easiest time to sand down the interior. I filled and sanded and primed the interior before installing builkheads as I remember. After I installed bulkheads and filleted, I flowcoated the interiors of lockers with two coats of pigmented resin. The lockers are smooth inside and easy to clean. Took extra materials and time but I wanted to be able to put my hand anywhere inside a locker and not get a sliver.

We are off for a weeks cruise to Santa Cruz Is. ... the payoff for all that work.

even a bubble can get moisture in it and cause problems. sealed or not, it still contains air and is vulnerable to condensation, which is not good for wood. heat it up, and it will sweat. albiet very small amounts but still....personally, i would grind them out and patch as necessary, just to be safe and have a clean conscience. there are too many other things to worry about other than "what if"....i'm helping a buddy restore a fiberglass sailboat now. he has a bubble on the inside of his cabin arae and whenever we go in during the day, it swells. at night, when it cools off it goes away. not a big problem but it still exists. and that's just fiberglass...

we'll be cutting that area out and repairing the area. we take the boat for a weekend and you can phycically see the area contract due to the cooler water outside the marina. and this is in the cabin.....4 feet from the waters surface!! for me, all i want to worry about is when and how fast that storm is coming up me.

Grind and patch it is. Thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm leaning towards filling the weave too as I get the impression it has some strenghtening advantages as well as the aesthetic ones. I hadn't thought about also laying down a coat of primer while the hull is still empty as you mention Justin. I wonder if there are any disadvantages in that approach when it comes to bonding of the frame/bulkhead fillets? I'm all for doing any work that can be done without all those "knee-knocker" (not to mention head-knocker) err..., bulkheads in the way.

Justin, enjoy that cruise. As fun as the building process is I can only imagine the sailing process has it's own rewards.

Thanks again,
A.

Andrew,
Any updates on your VG23? I am anxious to see how it turns out for you and even more anxious to get started on my own boat and learning to sail.
Tony

tonymart wrote:Andrew,
Any updates on your VG23? I am anxious to see how it turns out for you and even more anxious to get started on my own boat and learning to sail.
Tony

Hi Tony. For sure:
Things are coming along nicely. The hull is now completely glassed on the inside and I've patched up the bubbles I mentioned previously. I squeeged on a 'coat' of epoxy on the weekend to fill the fg weave. One more "quick" sanding and I should be ready to begin installing the stringers and frames. (I'm still trying to figure out how to sand a 23' boat quickly ). I've also been plugging away at applying a saturation coat of epoxy to the frames to get 'em prepped.

I was going to run a few gallons of epoxy short before the cold hits so I ordered some jugs of the E-Poxy with a medium hardener and they arrived just in time - the last few evenings of work the temps have dropped to 12-15 celcius. If winter doesn't hit too early this year I hope to be able to get the framing installed before halting for the cold months.

Not much to photograph but I'll snap a few when I'm up the next time.

Hey Tony, do ya think we could get some sort of group deal on sailing lessons?? Have you settled on which boat you'd like?

Cheers,
A.

andrew lucking wrote:I squeeged on a 'coat' of epoxy on the weekend to fill the fg weave.

Why did you decide to fill the weave with epoxy rather than fairing compound? Did you learn that epoxy would be stronger?

jason

jasonmcintosh wrote:Why did you decide to fill the weave with epoxy rather than fairing compound? Did you learn that epoxy would be stronger?
jason

Only anecdotally I suppose. My thinking is that fairing compound is intended for more of a cosmetic application and I do intend to use it on other visible areas. I feel that inside the hull I'm better off going for the structural and bonding advantage straight epoxy gives. To be honest I didn't sweat it much, and my opinion is worth what it is - that of an amateur.

Cheers,
A.

Andrew,
You looking to learn sailing also? I have never sailed but have become very interested in sailing after years of motorboating on lakes. My interest is to be able to coastal cruise when I retire in 5-6 years. I have read stories of people coastal cruising and all the possiblities around the continent after having my interest peaked from reading about Justin Pipkins cruise to the Bahamas with some trailer sailors.
Originally thinking about building the VG20 and purchasing the plans I have now become more interested in the VG23 or the serpentaire. I am happy to see you building the 23. I have looked at other plans and have not found any that compare to the VG20, VG23, or the Serpentaire for their size.
By the way, only way I know to sand that 23 footer any faster would be with a 23 foot sander!!!! If I lived near I could give you a hand with it for the experience but I reside in Oklahoma.
Lots of luck,
Tony

Well, here are a couple of the latest pics:




I tried to get some shots from across the alleyway to give you folks an idea of what the boat looks like sitting up there in the loft but they didn't turn out. Too dark I guess. I'll try to set up a couple of the halogen worklights and see if that'll help.

I started to install some of the framing on the weekend. Well, I started to fit them atleast. Its nice to switch back to working with wood for a bit.

tonymart wrote:You looking to learn sailing also? I have never sailed but have become very interested in sailing after years of motorboating on lakes. My interest is to be able to coastal cruise when I retire in 5-6 years. I have read stories of people coastal cruising and all the possiblities around the continent after having my interest peaked from reading about Justin Pipkins cruise to the Bahamas with some trailer sailors.

Learning to sail is definitely on my to do list. When I started dreaming of this project I thought it would be more "adventerous" to build the boat and then learn how to sail her. I must be getting old as that little plan is starting to seem less practical lately. No matter the order though, following that dream is certainly the important part.

Cheers,
A.

Lots of people learn to sail on a 23' sloop. But do yourself a favor and go take a class or get a friend to help or join a local club.

andrew lucking wrote: Learning to sail is definitely on my to do list. When I started dreaming of this project I thought it would be more "adventerous" to build the boat and then learn how to sail her. I must be getting old as that little plan is starting to seem less practical lately.
Cheers,
A.

I seem to recall Dennis Conner's book suggests learning to sail on a light-to-moderate displacement, performance oriented keelboat in the low 20 foot range, gives you a lot of feel for changes made to trim without the fear of going swimming....

Alas, I know very little about sailing, but one thing that my 12' snark taught me is that how you rig your boat is important.

If you don't have much sailing experience, you may not know how to rig it well. Not sure what are in the plans, but I'd highly recommend that you get some sailing experience before you spend the money and effort on rigging your boat.

Which is to say, unless the plans include some very good rigging guidelines, DON'T rig your boat until you've got the experience to know what you want!

A number of months ago, someone finished one of the Bateau sailboats (he left the rear transom open so he could get in and out easily). The guy did a stellar job with the boat, and the pictures of his rigging setup was amazing. Certainly nothing you would have come up with some afternoon. That guy knew what he was doing, and I'm sure that the performance of the boat benefited greatly.

jason

LarryA wrote:I seem to recall Dennis Conner's book suggests learning to sail on a light-to-moderate displacement, performance oriented keelboat in the low 20 foot range, gives you a lot of feel for changes made to trim without the fear of going swimming....

Excellent. It just so happens I have one of those in the attic... err... hayloft. Mind you it needs a bit of work if I recall correctly!

jasonmcintosh wrote:Which is to say, unless the plans include some very good rigging guidelines, DON'T rig your boat until you've got the experience to know what you want!

More words of wisdom, Jason. To go along with that I find myself in a similar situation with planning the layout of the cabin and all the "convenience customizations" etc. I'm kind of looking forward to the pause winter will give me to spend some serious time investigating, reading and plain old thinkin' about how I specifically want to set things up. Of course I'm going to do some of these things wrong but heck I am doing it, not still sitting on my couch talking about it (as I did for quite sometime)

A.

The first time I got on a sailboat the guy said "here take this" gave me the tiller and off we went. When we got back and tied up to the mooring he asked me how long I had been sailing for... Well about an hour

I did a little more as a crew on various friends boats. Lots on a Kelt 5.50 micro class. We regularly were faster than larger boats which meant we got invited over for drinks a lot when we arrived in a port.

Then I needed a boat of my own so I bought a 4.6 metre catamaran. The first day I went out with just the main because of untrained crew (ex wife). Scary how fast we went thinking back. My first regatta I finished 38th of 120 boats - I refused to cross the line in one of the races because I wasn't pleased with losing my compass over board and losing a heap of places... Yes I was leading... I am a light wind sailer. Mostly because my cat had badly designed kickup rudder mechanism that gave me lots of problems in heavy weather (got to spend 15 minutes lifting the thing back on its feet at Cap de la Chèvre).

So I guess that I am a natural. I put that down to being raised on a farm - you learn real quick which direction the wind is coming from when you are out shooting rabbits

The only things to learn are keep your head down and don't run into other boats

Tony

.....and it's always a good idea to know how deep the water is and how deep you draft...Never let those two dimensions get too close to being the same!!

shawnk wrote:.....and it's always a good idea to know how deep the water is and how deep you draft...Never let those two dimensions get too close to being the same!!

Ah you heard about the time we ran aground in the dark

Lucky us, the Kelt was a centre board version We knew the shoal was there but we didn't have a tide table with us...

Tony

we went on a weekend cruise and hit bottom, in the dark. our problem was, we were in really shallow water and didn't realize it. we went in at a good heel, so we didn't hit until she sat up!!! we spent the night right there. the next morning the tide came in and we were able to drift off. that's the main problem with floridas gulf coast. five miles off shore, it's still only 4 feet deep if you're not in a channel. lesson learned.

i forgot....i was going to tell andrew...while you're not building through the winter, fly on down here. we have a sweet 25' bayfield we can go out on. you can learn some basic sailing in a very stable boat. be more than happy to show you some things. i'm by no means a pro, but i can show you a few things.

shawnk wrote:i forgot....i was going to tell andrew...while you're not building through the winter, fly on down here.

Shawn that is a very generous offer. Thank you. :!: I would be thrilled to be able to take you up on it. My paying job seems to be piling up for the winter but ya never know...

I've said it before - this group is fantastic! The knowledge, time and pretty much everything else folks are sharing here is mind-blowing.

Cheers,
A.

The boat that I was talking about having some great looking rigging is the "Alexa's Rocket" poster boat. I don't know much about sailing, but the guy who buld that boat sure looks like does:

http://www.bateau2.comAR15/index.htm

This is off topic, but I just saw that someone finished a R550 Randonneur!!!

That boat looks really nice. I wish he had shown pictures of the building process on this site.

jason

Here's a "very-little-to-report" progress report:

Stringers and frames are installed. Half of them are all fg taped as per spec, the remainder are glued in-place. Probably a bit more work doing it this way but I wanted to be sure to get all the frames in before it got too cold - didn't want to take any chances with the hull "changing shape" over the winter. September was awesome weather wise up here and I wasted it working at the bill paying job.

Anyhow, I spent Sunday covering the hull with a couple of tarps. So now what am I gonna do with my copious amounts of free time? No hockey, no boat...

Cheers,
A.

"Anyhow, I spent Sunday covering the hull with a couple of tarps. So now what am I gonna do with my copious amounts of free time? No hockey, no boat... "

a sugestion: Talking sailing on gulf St-Laurent and may be start a "flotille" of V23 in Quebec !

If you want to know what i mean by "talking sailing" visit my web site a http://www.petitdelire.com

DELIRIUM wrote: If you want to know what i mean by "talking sailing" visit my web site a http://www.petitdelire.com

Monsieur je vous salue bien bas!

Tony

we are not worthy my friend

following this link and the excellent photo's makes me want to start ASAP...

looking for some UK based posters building the VG23

max

Thanks for the good word !

But if you know or someone know how i could contact Andrew Lucking PLEASE tell me . This VG23 builder live may be no more then one hour from my home, so i really want to talk and look this famous VG 23.
Dam ! It's easier to talk with a builder who live in U.K or in France then talk with a guy who may be live "next door".

Delerium,

Just sent ya an email. I don't know how I missed this post 'til now.

While building may be suspended for the winter I still find myself "consumed" by the vg23. For those who are interested I've been "serializing" the various stages of construction progress to date in a bit more detail in my weblog whenever I get the chance.

My blog is here:
http://www.andrewlucking.com/
I've created a boat category which can be reached directly here:
http://www.andrewlucking.com/archives/category/boat/
For you techies who use news aggregation software you can "subscribe" to the syndication feed from there too.

As the unofficial bateau.com slogan goes, "build on dudes"!