Jaysen's Mini 580 plan -- on indefinite pause :(
- Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
Thanks FG1K. I'll be in touch. Once I see the plans I'll decide what to use.
- Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Globe 580 plan
Fecal matter is getting real!
Been in communication with Mr McIntyre. I have queries into Jeff on some materials. I have a couple of other NA builders looking for supplies. I have a pile of questions lined up for the designer. I have a "class compliant" blog setup on my personal site (https://jaysenodell.com). I will duplicate a lot of content while offloading images to personal blog. If I can find a PHPBB plugin I'll enable it but for now you will need a facebook account or create a new account on my site. If enough folks ask I will gladly add new login aggregates if possible.
Ok enough of that. New post will be out tomorrow. The build plan to maximize build while minimizing need to travel to Beaufort will be explained. A few more tidbits about he build plan will be revealed. A few of my nits may be mentioned as well.
Been in communication with Mr McIntyre. I have queries into Jeff on some materials. I have a couple of other NA builders looking for supplies. I have a pile of questions lined up for the designer. I have a "class compliant" blog setup on my personal site (https://jaysenodell.com). I will duplicate a lot of content while offloading images to personal blog. If I can find a PHPBB plugin I'll enable it but for now you will need a facebook account or create a new account on my site. If enough folks ask I will gladly add new login aggregates if possible.
Ok enough of that. New post will be out tomorrow. The build plan to maximize build while minimizing need to travel to Beaufort will be explained. A few more tidbits about he build plan will be revealed. A few of my nits may be mentioned as well.
- Netpackrat
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
Actually went to the website and watched the promoter's video on it. For some stupid reason I had assumed the globe race would be a southern ocean route. But they are actually going through Panama and over the top of Australia, which seems significantly less insane. Still couldn't pay me to do it, but perhaps my earlier comment re: suicide methods was a little excessive.
Minor question and I am sure they have (or will have) such details all worked out, but I didn't see any provision for auxiliary propulsion, and it was my understanding that you couldn't do the canal without an engine. Is the plan to ship/truck the boats across, or will there be some special arrangement to tow them through the canal or something?
Other thing I noticed was the simple 5 panel hull construction. Not sure where I have seen that before but looked familiar...
Minor question and I am sure they have (or will have) such details all worked out, but I didn't see any provision for auxiliary propulsion, and it was my understanding that you couldn't do the canal without an engine. Is the plan to ship/truck the boats across, or will there be some special arrangement to tow them through the canal or something?
Other thing I noticed was the simple 5 panel hull construction. Not sure where I have seen that before but looked familiar...
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
The only way I run open ocean in an 18 footer is if she is self righting.
Is it, assuming dismasted, or with sheet furled, indeed sef righting?
Is it, assuming dismasted, or with sheet furled, indeed sef righting?
- Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
Netpackrat, there is a requirement for outboard. Allows for direct dinosaur or differed dinosaur style (fossil fuel or electric). I’m assuming we will need to raft and transit as trailer/shipping requires removing keep and rigging. That seems... prone to failure. That detail is still unannounced (4 years out yet). The route does go south around Africa so it isn’t completely sane.
And yes, the similarly to the SB18 is not lost on me.
FG1k, it is self righting. There is a 130kg lead bulb on the end of a 1m steel wing. Should the keel be knocked off the 580 is less stable inverted and would roll back. Not as fast as an AD or VG but it would roll back. There are 2foamed crash boxes forward, a watertight hatch/bulkhead under the mast and the cabin aft bulk head extends below deck unbroken. That effectively seals the boat into thirds that, with some required foam, should make it “unsinkable”.
And yes, the similarly to the SB18 is not lost on me.
FG1k, it is self righting. There is a 130kg lead bulb on the end of a 1m steel wing. Should the keel be knocked off the 580 is less stable inverted and would roll back. Not as fast as an AD or VG but it would roll back. There are 2foamed crash boxes forward, a watertight hatch/bulkhead under the mast and the cabin aft bulk head extends below deck unbroken. That effectively seals the boat into thirds that, with some required foam, should make it “unsinkable”.
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
Jaysen,
1)There's plenty of challenges out there without going around the great capes. Going around non-stop as in the recent Golden Globe obviously takes a bit of insanity, but counter-intuitively, there is one part that is easier. You don't close the coast anywhere, so navigation can be sloppy and you still don't hit the rocks. Getting into unfamiliar harbors can be scary, particularly after dark or in rain or fog. We normally stood off, because we're sissies (or one might say prudent); but you'll be racing so you'll have to soldier on.
2) All ballasted monohull sailboats are self-righting...you know that but I'm just responding to fallguy.
3) In regarding to self-propulsion through the Panama Canal: You will have an auxiliary but still, there may be a slight problem which will nonetheless be workable. If you don't have enough speed to make it from the Atlantic locks to the Pacific locks during the daytime--and it's over twenty miles--you have to anchor overnight in the lake until the next afternoon's descent. Twenty miles should be doable for your boat, or would be, except you have no control over what time you get to start. I recall we had to motorsail for all we were worth and I think they want you to do about 7-8 knots. And by the way, people have swum the canal although it took special permission, but not for a very long time and I doubt it would be allowed today. Speed is also a bit of a deal in the Suez, which is a two-day trip. You overnight in Ismailia. I'm sure Don will work this out.
4) A very gentle word of caution: No boat has ever been built that can't sink.
1)There's plenty of challenges out there without going around the great capes. Going around non-stop as in the recent Golden Globe obviously takes a bit of insanity, but counter-intuitively, there is one part that is easier. You don't close the coast anywhere, so navigation can be sloppy and you still don't hit the rocks. Getting into unfamiliar harbors can be scary, particularly after dark or in rain or fog. We normally stood off, because we're sissies (or one might say prudent); but you'll be racing so you'll have to soldier on.
2) All ballasted monohull sailboats are self-righting...you know that but I'm just responding to fallguy.
3) In regarding to self-propulsion through the Panama Canal: You will have an auxiliary but still, there may be a slight problem which will nonetheless be workable. If you don't have enough speed to make it from the Atlantic locks to the Pacific locks during the daytime--and it's over twenty miles--you have to anchor overnight in the lake until the next afternoon's descent. Twenty miles should be doable for your boat, or would be, except you have no control over what time you get to start. I recall we had to motorsail for all we were worth and I think they want you to do about 7-8 knots. And by the way, people have swum the canal although it took special permission, but not for a very long time and I doubt it would be allowed today. Speed is also a bit of a deal in the Suez, which is a two-day trip. You overnight in Ismailia. I'm sure Don will work this out.
4) A very gentle word of caution: No boat has ever been built that can't sink.
Tony
- cape man
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
I have been watching with interest, and admire your insanity! Go baby, Go!
The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before - Neil Gaiman
- Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
Tony, replies tied to your enumeration for clarity.
1. The course is not set in stone yet, but it currently avoids north east Africa and the Suez. Part of that is to add the "big water" and part to avoid the safety issues of that region. I think the times have changed enough to warrant avoidance for small craft that are on independent schedules and can not be escorted. Also... $$$$. Current CG580 fees for the race are $7+k. We expect those to go up. As to ports, we are only forced into checkpoint ports. We are free to stop anywhere we need. With a 5ft draft I'm not sure I can actually get into ports here in SC. Noosa would be out of the question!
2. There is that, but if you look at the VG and AD designed by JM, they are unstable in any position not "upright". The GC580 is not as unstable, but even sans-ballast it would tend to self right. That was asked of Don in one of the comments.
3. I suspect we will not be transiting on the water. There is no position on this, but it would make sense for all parties be loaded on a transport and moved over land or via canal. I don't know this for a fact, but a unrigged hull fits in a 20' container. a 7.8m mast would not need to be removed on a float barge. I'm not sure about that though. I do know that it would be cheaper to pay for a haul out, dismast, stick on a flatbed, and then buy a bus ticket than it would be to transit in the canal. I'm hoping Don has a plan for that. We shall see. Keep in mind there is no requirement to sail every leg. So I could sail the first leg, skip two and three, ship hull to Australia and rejoin there.
4. Hence the quotes in my use of unsinkable. Cut a Boston whaler in half and the motor section will sink. I think the overall plan for safety is well thought out, and, if built to spec, this hull is no less safe than any other 19' (5.8m) hull.
1. The course is not set in stone yet, but it currently avoids north east Africa and the Suez. Part of that is to add the "big water" and part to avoid the safety issues of that region. I think the times have changed enough to warrant avoidance for small craft that are on independent schedules and can not be escorted. Also... $$$$. Current CG580 fees for the race are $7+k. We expect those to go up. As to ports, we are only forced into checkpoint ports. We are free to stop anywhere we need. With a 5ft draft I'm not sure I can actually get into ports here in SC. Noosa would be out of the question!
2. There is that, but if you look at the VG and AD designed by JM, they are unstable in any position not "upright". The GC580 is not as unstable, but even sans-ballast it would tend to self right. That was asked of Don in one of the comments.
3. I suspect we will not be transiting on the water. There is no position on this, but it would make sense for all parties be loaded on a transport and moved over land or via canal. I don't know this for a fact, but a unrigged hull fits in a 20' container. a 7.8m mast would not need to be removed on a float barge. I'm not sure about that though. I do know that it would be cheaper to pay for a haul out, dismast, stick on a flatbed, and then buy a bus ticket than it would be to transit in the canal. I'm hoping Don has a plan for that. We shall see. Keep in mind there is no requirement to sail every leg. So I could sail the first leg, skip two and three, ship hull to Australia and rejoin there.
4. Hence the quotes in my use of unsinkable. Cut a Boston whaler in half and the motor section will sink. I think the overall plan for safety is well thought out, and, if built to spec, this hull is no less safe than any other 19' (5.8m) hull.
Thanks! I don't know if it is "insanity" or pure stupidity. Time will tell.
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
In regard to #2, I am very surprised that Jacques would design a ballasted sailboat that could not right itself. It is of course true of the V12 and any unballasted boat of his...but the AD and VG series? Really?
Tony
- Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan
you misread (or I misexplained) the vg/ad structure. the will NOT sit upside down even without ballast (as I understand it). The design crates a displacement that forces the hull to roll when the hull is inverted in the water (upside down). the hull is 'unstable in any position not "upright"' meaning that it will fight to get righted. They are VERY stable right side up.
It's an awkward statement. in the end we are in agreement that JM hulls are self righting.
I found the line from the ad16 study plans: her high profile cambered deck makes her very unstable upside down.
reference https://boatbuildercentral.com/StudyPla ... _STUDY.pdf
you will also see JM make a reference to that in my questions about SB18 as a weekend cruiser. He recommended the AD/VG series partly because of the increased safety in righting. I didn't look that up.
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