Page 1 of 1
CV16 Caravelle ks8 - more photos of caprails around Cuddy
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:30 pm
by ks8
I've added a few more CuddyTop Caprail (railcap?) pictures to the gallery. More to follow. I hope the 4x layout isn't making each photo too small. I'm trying to minimize the total number of pictures while giving the most points of view.
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=235
These pics were spring 2004. If you want a better rez single picture of any of these, list the pic number and the blue circle number and I'll upload a larger version.
Sincerely,
ks
Re: CV16 Caravelle ks8 - more photos of caprails around Cudd
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:56 pm
by chrisobee
ks8 wrote:I've added a few more CuddyTop Caprail (railcap?) pictures to the gallery. More to follow. I hope the 4x layout isn't making each photo too small. I'm trying to minimize the total number of pictures while giving the most points of view.
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=235
These pics were spring 2004. If you want a better rez single picture of any of these, list the pic number and the blue circle number and I'll upload a larger version.
Sincerely,
ks
As always KS looking good. You just help but add on the mods can you?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:51 pm
by ks8
Though it did not matter much up front, they add much stiffness to the cockpit area, give a good grip, add a little freeboard, and still may end up being bright finished even though only doug fir. And, they are Practice for the next project. I had to repair the roof on the tent after the big snowfall. The first 3 x 4 inch hole opened up, but the *cathedral* kept snow out of the boat. Soon there will be more duct tape than tent... yet it has held up, more or less, 4 years in Northeast weather... not bad.
After looking in there, .... I've got to finish this this year. The bay is icing up again... I'll have to look into that mod for ice runners.
ks
Re: CV16 Caravelle ks8 - more photos of caprails around Cudd
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:17 pm
by andrew lucking
Man that looks good! I should hope you're thinking about finishing atleast some of it bright.
ks8 wrote: These pics were spring 2004.
I was so eager to look at the photos that I missed this first read through. Sure was confused when I couldn't locate that sweet console you built (this summer?) in those pics.
Cheers,
A.
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:40 pm
by ks8
Thanks for the encouragement guys...
I flip flop on the bright finish every other week. I didn't do all the scarfs with color matched filler. Consequently, some shout at you. I may not permanently decide until I'm mixing paint. They are not teak or mahoghany, but they do not look bad for humble doug fir.
How goes things in the hayloft Andrew?
sincerely,
ks
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:25 pm
by Steve_MA
What kind of hardware are you using for hatches? I looks like I see recessed hardware......
I am trying to figure out what my options are for hardware (if I use any) for my seat/hatch covers. I think I can get recessed pulls, but I dont want hinges above the plane of the seat/hatch cover..
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:40 am
by chrisobee
Steve_MA wrote:What kind of hardware are you using for hatches? I looks like I see recessed hardware......
I am trying to figure out what my options are for hardware (if I use any) for my seat/hatch covers. I think I can get recessed pulls, but I dont want hinges above the plane of the seat/hatch cover..
Don't let KS be humble he hand crafted his hatches.
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:53 am
by Jonnas
Hello KS,
Just found your newest pictures at the builders gallery but had a hard time finding this thread ... It seems you now consider your Caravelle a "small boat"
...
As always it's looking good. Congratulations.
Best regards.
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:16 am
by jacquesmm
I moved this thread to the Builder's section, sail boats.
Tent Construction
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:57 am
by popiworks
Hello KS
Am I to understand that you are building inside a tent? If so have you found it dry enough to protect your project?
Your pictures look great - nice craftmanship.
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:37 pm
by ks8
Steve_MA wrote:
What kind of hardware are you using for hatches? I looks like I see recessed hardware......
Mostly stainless steel hardware. I'm making some handles from dimensional stock and cheap SS tangs. There are 5 hatches made of plywood laminate. a- the cuddy hatch, b and c- the hatches under the front seat compartments, d and e- same under mid seat compartments.
There are also 4 circular inspection plates for other under seat compartments to *inspect* and to tighten or maintain hose clamps for electrical, bilge, and to tighten nuts on safety line ubolt connections. This all could have been simpler by far, but I am training myself for a larger project and wanted to encounter all problem issues here first. It has paid off, and I can think of many other ways to do it now, though these will do for now.
There are a couple of plywood hatches on the console also, but they may only serve part-time, or I may scrap the idea there as with no hatch, the small storage area on either side of the console is a great handhold when standing just aft of the cuddy hatch.
If you refer to a particular *hatch*, let me know the link to that picture and I can explain more, but it really isn't that big a deal on any of them. Unless you want to spend more time toying with ideas, the commercially available deck hatches and access plates are probably plenty or more than you need on a small boat, and they only require a few measurements and drilling and sealing some holes to attach them. Circulars are cheaper and easier, and you only need to plan if the largest object you plan to store will fit in and out of the opening of them (minor but important issue
).
Oh come on ChrisObee... handcrafted means cut a panel or two with a jigsaw, sanded 'em and glued them together for a nice fit. You're handcrafting your own boat aren't you?
Jonnas wrote:
It seems you now consider your Caravelle a "small boat"
It was late when I posted that, but then, it is, less than 15 feet long. Maybe next winter I'll be building a *model* of a VG27. Will those pictures go under small boats or sailboats? hmmmm ....
Are you going to build an AD16?
popiworks wrote:
Am I to understand that you are building inside a tent? If so have you found it dry enough to protect your project?
Yes. Rare days it is too damp for my taste, such as heavy fog. I have done quite a bit of work in there during thunderstorms with buckets of rain coming down. I've already been hit by lightening, 15 years ago, so I figure I've got awhile before the odds roll around again. When building the main hull structures, such as stitching together panels, I tried to work during drier days, until I had the panels assembled and sealed, but with 6 cheap work lights in there, it is surprisingly dry even in a rainstorm. I mixed epoxy in the house on rainy days, and covered the batches VERY well when transporting them out and into the tent (fillers blow around to much in the tent on windy days). Now I have the boat in a tent within a tent as I work on final internal structures and that is plenty dry and wind free for mixing. Many of these tents ship with only 3 sides. You will want a fourth side either ordered from them, or made from tarp. Mold blows around from outside the tent. If the project takes multiple seasons, you may need to wipe down wood with a mold/fungus killer every few months. I use what I hope is fairly good grade acetone for the purpose. I keep panels indoors as much as possible until they are needed, because the tent, though shelter, is an open environment when the wind is really howling, even though it keeps the rain off.
I sanded caprails during Hurricane Jeanne...
http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... 202&pos=17
If you think it will take more than a year or two to build, order an extra set of sides for the tent. Mine are beginning to be an eyesore with all the duct tape holding them together. This is important if you are in a tight packed surburbia, for the neighbor's sake. A ratty old tent can look pretty ratty. I put white tape over the more obvious grey to hide it. It's easier to order spare sides! These boats do not take too long to build. Mine has taken awhile due to work schedules and the customizing I've done with the boat, and a trick back. The tent can't keep freezing temperatures out, so winter is not a build season unless assembling smaller parts indoors.
Jacques... thanks for moving the thread.
Thanks to all for the encouragement. Man, I've got to finish this thing!
Sincerely,
ks
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:39 pm
by Jonnas
ks8 wrote:Are you going to build an AD16?
No. Not in the near future anyway. As soon as I can start building, I'm still planning on the AR15. But, unfortunately, I am still not certain of a true beginning date. I already made the SS chainplates and cut the CB and rudder. But that's all I can do for now ...
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:49 pm
by ks8
A start is a start! Glad to hear you've begun.
ks
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:56 pm
by andrew lucking
ks8 wrote:How goes things in the hayloft Andrew?
The vg's wrapped in tarps and hibernating for the winter. I'm alot like epoxy in that we both don't work so well in this cold weather.
ks8 wrote:Maybe next winter I'll be building a *model* of a VG27.
...so you'll be building fullscale come next spring?
Cheers,
A.
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:28 pm
by Steve_MA
What do you think about this hardware for hatches? I am not sure what I want to do - and I am also interested in experimenting to get experience for future projects -
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/es ... 1779815466
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/es ... 1779815466
These hatches will be the seats of the FL14. They will give me a flush seat and hatch cover that doesnt open when the boat is tipped (to drain). I dont know that much about hinges and I dont know how many options there are for creating a flush surface. Also, I assume this is solid brass. I know it pits - I dont know what to do about that but keep it clean and polished.
(PS> I assume these links are OK and not considered competitors....)
Try coating your brass hinges with epoxy
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:22 am
by JustRight
As an experiment, probably 30 years ago, I coated a simple wooden handle for a top on a cheap aluminum egg poacher with epoxy and glued it onto the aluminum cover. I have run the cover through the dishwasher perhaps hundreds of times. The glue joint is still intact and the finish on the handle hasn't deteriorated. Certainly a test of temperature cycling in materials with dissimilate coefficents of expansion in temperatures beyond normal range recommended for epoxy while immersed in a strong chemical solution.
Recently, perhaps five years ago, I coated an aluminum defrosting plate with epoxy. We use the plate about once a day, heating it with hot tap water. I don't run it in the dishwasher but it is washed each use. I have one place where the epoxy has come off, otherwise, it is intact with no oxidation.
These weren't boatbuilding applications but do validate some of the claims for epoxy. Too bad my dishwasher isn't big enough to scrub my Vagabond!
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:42 am
by ks8
Hello Steve_MA,
I'm giving my opinions here, on my thoughts regarding this hardware.
The hinges look alright, but you would have to maybe double up the thickness of the hatch top so that you could recess the depth of what looks like a thick hinge. Also, the 3 piece mechanism which allows it to fully recess... As a seat top, I don't know if it is something that shorts or skin would get stuck or pinched on... it may be fine, I really don't know. I would not totally rely on the hinges for vertical support of weight on the hatch top. I'd also put a lip on the hatch hole/opening that the hatch top rests on and carries the weight of whoever sits or stands on the hatch cover.
The pull latch, it certainly looks sharp, but perhaps you will have water pooling in its shape. If salt water, I don't know how much that would cause future troubles.
But these two products may work out fine and look quite sharp. I haven't the experience to give a further qualified opinion, except again to remark that this hatch will also be a seat and is horizontal, and these must be taken into consideration.
Did you want this hatch to be completely watertight, or does it not matter at all? This will potentially affect the structures just under the hatch opening, depending on your approach. Some make simple seat top hatches semi water resistant with a simple thin gaskket and let gravity hold it down, not even recessed, then sponge out any water that finds a way in. If not recessed, such a simple hatch is a slight bump on the seat. If recessed, a bit more water may find it way in.
Again, others use a simple circular inspection hatch, some of which are quite large, and they too will be a slight bump on the seat, but very simple. However, I'm assuming that you are looking at hinges and such because you want a different look to it.
How fussy are you with water entry? Hatches can be super super simple if your demands are low. What's your low end need and your high end hope? Maybe you could post a couple of rough sketches? Many builders here have already gone down the hatch road and can tell you what works, what doesn't, what's good enough, etc.
To keep a simple hatch shut when you flip the boat to drain it, all you need is an appropriately elastic piece of bungee holding it down from the inside. You pull open the hatch and remove the bungee to fully open, then reattach to close... cheap spring action. But how often will the hatch be accessed and how heavy an object will crash against it when the hull is flipped?
Another thought... brass can get very hot in the summer sun. If you sit on that with shorts on, and your (or someone else's) skin hits it, it could raise an eyebrow. But I've never compared the temperature of brass and SS in sunlight. Any hatch on a seat top, personally, I'd keep as simple as possible, and maybe have a large seat cushion that must be flipped to access the hatch, but that's considering guest crew comfort, something which perhaps the local Spartans would frown upon?
You best know who will be joining you, and you best know how accessible that hatch needs to be, and you best know what you'd like it to look like.
I suggest that in your FL14 thread, maybe post some sketches of ideas, and then the gang can pat you on the back or tear you to shreds for such ideas ...
Those who have built FL14's may be more likely to scan your thread, even though it is a generic topic. A hatch on an FL14 may have particular considerations due to the structures of which I am unaware.
sincerely,
ks
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:32 pm
by Steve_MA
KS - Great comments thanks. You thought of a couple things I didnt (like - yes, the hinges do get hot, I have "burned" myself on SS hinges on a hatch - or now that I think about it maybe it was the black plexyglass or whatever they used...but I know the SS gets hot) My passengers may have to just avoid it.... I have thought of doing a sketch, but thats going to take some time. As I narrow it down, maybe I will....
Hatch will definitely be recessed.
It will be sat on so it needs to be strong.
I may double up the 3/8 ply or but some supports under it.
It could be as simple as a recessed cover with a finger hole to pull it out and gravity to hold it in. I dont really want to do this.
Maybe I will try to sketch something....
Thanks for all the thoughts..
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:43 pm
by ks8
I dont really want to do this.
Which do you really not want to do?
ks
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:05 pm
by Steve_MA
Steve_MA wrote:
It could be as simple as a recessed cover with a finger hole to pull it out and gravity to hold it in...
Thats what I dont want to do. The covers will always come out when I tip it. They will probably always be sliding off....got 2 little kids.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:17 pm
by ks8
With little ones, a latch is an invitation to play anyway!
If you went real simple, you could use internal bungee to keep the top on, but again it depends on how heavy the contents of the storage area are, when they fall against the lid when flipping the boat.
I think those latches will work fine, but I'm just not sure of the maintenance in salt water environment. You could *handcraft* latch mechanisms also, from the simple to the stupid complex, but your need for waterproofing will play into whatever would be *handcrafted*, especially when you want it recessed.
Winter is for these subjects, right?!
A simple recessed bolt latch would also do it, but not be as, well, I guess you'll need to decide what is the most *shippy* way to go. Even a simple recessed bolt latch will gather water if it rains.
ks
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:57 pm
by ks8
To Jacques or Fritz or Joel,
Disk quota time again...
I've got more to upload of details showing abiltiy to bright finish over 4 oz cloth, etc. (no more broom men though).
Here, the cuddytop caprails have been fully shaped and final sanded with 100 grit. Next 4 pieces of cloth were prepared for glassing. 1 six oz for the cuddy top, and 3 four oz cloth for the caprail sections.
The cloth is now applied and wetout. The cuddytop 6 oz cloth was the last to go on. Additionally, I filled the weave on the cloth of all caprail cloth except one. When the Disk quota is bumped up, I'll post two detail shots that show the benefit of filling the weave on the cloth, in such a case, while the first wetout coat is not fully cured (and blushed), when bright finishing is a goal, and later tomorrow, I'll post a tutorial on how to construct the worst possible run on sentence, given any particular subject matter, and utilizing redundancy to increase the length of the sentence, until it becomes ridiculously long, so that no one wants to bother getting to the end of it, to see where it finally ends, at the end of it, finally..
Sincerely,
ks
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:05 am
by ks8
The pictures better show that Doug Fir stock is under rated as a bright finish wood. It really depends on the grain of the piece. This bow cap is not particularly structural, so I ripped the wood to show off the grain on top. This is already under 4 oz glass with the weave filled with a second coat of clear epoxy laid on after the first wetout coat setup halfway. I really don't want to be blinded by gloss clear LPU here, but it does llok nice and the console can block a glare in to the sun if I slightly slouch. If I go with satin clear I'm wondering if I should bother bright finishing at all. Hey, I can always paint it white later, right?
The grain on the side caprails was cut to run parallel with the top surface to add greater athwartships stiffness (the boat built per plans is plenty strong without this caprail, but I've added *stuff* that I thought could use a little more support, stuff like rod holders for deadsticks while striper fishing), So it does not look nearly as nice as these bow pieces on top. Those pics have to wait til spring.
When a small dimension of trim is added and is not structural, you can have a nice bright grain if you cut the wood to best show off what Fir has got. I like its lighter color, taking summer sun and heat into consideration, and the likelihood of grabbing the sheer while sailing!
Sincerely,
ks
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:55 pm
by MadRus
Hi ks,
Haven't received anything. Thought this might help...
-Dave
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:18 pm
by ks8
Thanks. I think I spelled it right. You should have it by now. Had a couple of business calls that needed immediate response. Done.
The Jibsheet fairlead photo should be posted by this weekend.
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:32 am
by MadRus
That's a lot of alliteration from... I wish I could remember the exact quote from Broadcast News... darn it! Anyway, what's with the "winter widgets"? It looks like something else might slip and lock into them- no?
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:12 pm
by ks8
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:44 am
by WobblyLegs
Any new pic's you want to share with us?
I'm curious about your new avatar, but it's too small to make out exactly what it is - looks like your inner tent has come down too?
T.
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:25 am
by ks8
Hello Wob,
That picture is two or three years old, when I was finishing the fore deck. That was actually before the cathedral. I need the inspiration of seeing at least part of the boat finished, whenever I add to the threads.
I've been fairing the interior and giving it a final seal of epoxy before the final sand and primer. I think I'll post one or two of that tonight (no primer yet). The cold wet weather just broke here, so instead of 50F it's now 85F in the tent! I guess it is character building...
I may not get to prime before I have to move the boat. Too bad as the bugs are not in full force yet.
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:36 pm
by ks8
Well before this posting... the more complete and current thread can be found here...
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=330
I figured I'd post this link and make it easier to find the main thread that is up to 23 pages as of today, in a different section. Finished bonding on the stbd rubrail trim today. It gets cleaned up tomorrow. Pictures and text will be on the main thread as per the above link.