CH16 - Turbo Cayuco: The Next Phase

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rudar
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Post by rudar »

I thought we wanted to avoid using acetone as it can leave residues that interfere with the epoxy :doh:

I also thought one would put duct-tape on between the stitches to prevent the spot-welds from leaking through the seam, so using zipties wouldn't really avoid potential problems with glue residue anyway... If good quality duct-tape left in place for only a day or two would even leave any residue?

Wouldn't alcohol take care of duct-tape glue?

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Post by jacquesmm »

Acetone will quickly evaporate, no problem with it. Lacquer thiiner is good too.

Alcohol and some other paint thinners may leave residues.
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Jerry-rigged
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Post by Jerry-rigged »

I used "Monster" duct tape, left it on for several weeks, (maybe two months?), and didn't have any residue to deal with. Ofcorse, about 1/2 the tape had let go on it's own by then... :lol:

I didn't use any tape behind the spotwelds, and didn't have much of an issue with the glue dripping thru. But then, maybe my glue was too thick. :doh:

Jerry
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rudar
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Post by rudar »

I'd assume it would also depend on how wide your gaps are. I'd hazard a guess that if they're close to the minimum 1-2mm, glue dripping won't be a problem; if they're closer to the maximum 10mm, perhaps the duct-tape backing would do some good. I guess I'll have to see how my sawing skills are, once I finally start building. Maybe I'll pick up some acetone just to be on the safe side.

ks8
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Post by ks8 »

I had two cans of acetone with no residue problems. Then I had a third that left the wood slightly darker than an equivalent water wipe. I sanded, vacuumed well, and wiped it down with a barely damp paper towel (folded twice), frequently turning. Then sanded again and wiped clean. I have no problems with adhesion, and might not have with only the acetone wipe, but the slightly darker color spooked me a bit. I don't think alchohol will cut any tape residue as well as the acetone. Perhaps some acetone out there is slightly recycled? Don't know. But I did see one of three cans behave slightly differently.

I suppose a simple enough test would be pouring a couple of ounces of the acetone into a glass first to see if it is crystal clear, without smoking a cig at the same time. :help: I'll probably do that with my last batch when I get home (not the cig part), but it is probably fine.

If you do a water wipe and it is very wet, you may need to sand again after it thoroughly dries as softwood and hardwood swells differently when wet, and then stays that way after drying, exagerating grain patterns.

As said earlier, the ties allow you to see the seam positions clearly while laminating, where the duct tape may hide that something slipped into a strong overlap where you don't want one.

gepineda
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FG Splicing done

Post by gepineda »

Both sides are now spliced. I am currently waiting to the second side to cure. I did all the applying of the epoxy with a small roller. I tried out a brush, but liked the roller better. It's hard to put too much resin with a roller, and it spreads the resin more evenly. On one of Shine's posts he mentions that it is very common for newbies to apply to much epoxy. I know that too much epoxy will weaken a fg seam, but is there such a thing as too little resin on the fiberglass? I made sure that all the glass appeared wet, and had no bubbles or raised areas. However, on the splicing of the second side of the panels I only used around 75ml of mixed resin for all four panels and that includes a precoat. Is this ok or I am being too sparse on the resin?

Gabe
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gepineda
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Post by gepineda »

I think the insecurities about my fg splicing were unfounded after all. I went to the basement this morning to check out how the splices cured and everything looks and feels ok. Yesterday as I was flipping the panels, with just one side spliced, it was a very different feeling. The one splice seemed way too fragile and easy to bend 8O. I thought maybe I should have slattered on more resin to end up with a thicker splice that would seem more sturdy :roll:. But luckily I resisted the temptation while splicing the second face of the panels.

Jerry-rigged
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Post by Jerry-rigged »

Are you using the new bi-ax tape? Your tape looks a little diffrent than mine.

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Jerry
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gepineda
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Splice failure

Post by gepineda »

Are you using the new bi-ax tape? Your tape looks a little diffrent than mine.
Yes, I am. Six inch biaxial. Is your's the older tape?

Yesterday I had problems with one of the fiberglass splices. I'd finish stitching the upper panels at the bows. Even though the lower panels were also stitiched at the keel, I had not attached upper and lower panels together. I opened the stitched upper panels to put in the Mold C batten. I had already done that several times (at least 5) before with no ill effects. But that last time I did so, a crack sounded and the inner splice of the panel I had in my hands (see stick drawing) gave way. Instead of the nice curve I used to get when I opened the panels, now I had a very wide angle at the seam. The panel just above my feet was ok. The fiber in the inner splice that gave way was not broken or separated. It only seemed bent out of its rigid shape. Image

Given that these splices are supposed to be stronger that the wood all by itself, I was opening the panels vertically instead of horizontally. I never opened the panels beyond the lenght of the batten. Heck, I never got the chance to put the batten in.

Now I'm trying to figure how to repair this. I'm thinking of laying it flat again, spreading some epoxy on top of the failed splice and then fiberglassing it with 8" long strips laid lenghtwise or at 90 to the orientation of the original failed tape. This way I put to work the logitudinal fibers that hold the biaxial pattern together. I would also have one inch of fiberglass going beyond the width of the original tape in each of its two sides.
Image
I'd have to repeat the same process on the opposing panel in order to keep the boat symmetrical. I was thinking of only sanding the epoxy coated area right beside the tape but not the fiber in itself. Will I have any problems if I do it that way? Or should I just sand out the fiber completely and try to start "fresh"? My concern with the latter option is that the opposing panel will have a different flexibility and I'd end up with an asymmetrical boat. The opposing panel is ok. Why should I sand the fiber out. I'd rather just lay more glass tape on top of the good fiber.

Jacques or Shine, why would this have happened? :help: I follwed the plan and the instructions without deviating, splice the panels together with one strip of fiberglass tape on each side of the panels. I just wanted to install the batten pulling the panels vertically. Once the batten was in place, but not secured, I would lay the panel opening horizontal to the ground and let the springing action make it symmetrical, and then I'd secure the batten in preparation to affix lower and upper panels together. While the opening was vertical, I never stepped on the panel, I only allowed gravity to pull it down as I pulled up. The wood never broke nor suffered any damage, but the splice, that's supposed to be stronger, failed.

ArizonaBuilder
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Post by ArizonaBuilder »

A good FG joint will also have some epoxy/wood flour mixture joining the edges together as well as the FG on each side.

Did you put any mixed epoxy in the joints?

If the edges of the ply were simply butted together, you would have one big void and therefore a very weak joint.
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