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OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:42 pm
by dbcrx
It´s getting a little chilly to be out paddling now (and for the next couple of months) so I´ve just placed another order. :D
Watch this space...

Re: WV13

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
Watching :D

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:43 am
by OptiMystic
also watching - just ordered plans for WV-13 myself last week. My build will likely be slow.

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:55 pm
by dbcrx
Good luck with yours. I'm still waiting to get startedon this one. Stupidly busy at work at the moment (will update another of my old threads with more on that soon). Hopefully get started in the next month or two.

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:37 pm
by OptiMystic
I doubt I will complete mine before late this year or early next (Santa may have to bring fittings, finishing supplies and accessories), so you may well pass me at some point. I hope to get the forms done fairly soon and the hull before summer is over.

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:29 pm
by OptiMystic
I hope you don't mind, but rather than starting a new thread I figured I would post here since there isn't yet an ongoing build being documented. I have my plans and have been sourcing and planning. I plan to make a deviation that may look like a major deviation but really isn't. My layout will be largely inspired by this:

Image

That's the Stealth Evolution 430, a 4.3 meter fishing kayak. It's about 14' long and 24" wide, so the WV-13 is about 18" shorter and 5" wider. I am planning to build the hull, deck and the frames in the tail exactly as specified. But the cockpit sole I will sculpt from styrofoam so that it will fit up under the deck opening with my butt and feet at the height specified in the plans.

My budget is a little tight and for various reasons it is more realistic for me to get parts piecemeal as I work on it rather that saving up and buying in bulk despite the potential savings.

A friend is working on a building renovation and gave me a few workstation tops, which are MDF, that I will use to build the forms. I will pick up 2 pieces of plywood the last week of June as I will be down near a supplier that has a good price on 1088 4mm meranti, which I have decided to use for the hull. I am starting with just 48 oz (32 + 16 of 2:1) of marine epoxy to join the panels. I hope to have an assembled hull with a sculpted seat by the end of the summer, frames and deck in the fall, laminating supplies under the tree at Christmas, paint and fit out in early spring and paddling through the surf when the kings and cobes show up here (NC) next year. So for those watching this spot to see one built, I am afraid mine is not going to appear quickly. I will likely do a better job if I don't rush anyway...

Re: WV13

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:51 pm
by OptiMystic
In our last episode, I said I would be picking up 2 pieces of 4mm meranti the last week of June to start on the hull. Friday I was at the wood seller's warehouse to pick it up and the guy was having a tough time finding it because they were moving wood around to liquidate everything from one supplier because of an exclusive deal their parent company had worked out with another supplier.

So while he is looking for the meranti, I am browsing and happen across this white board of specials:

Image

Look at that last item. I had to do a triple take. It just did not seem possible. Pinch me, I'm dreaming. :D
It was no dream. I told him to forget trying to find the $41/sheet meranti. I got all 4 sheets needed for the plan in 4mm okoume and my total price out the door was under $100. If anyone reading this is in or near NC, this is AV mill outlet in Beaufort. It's a little hole in the wall; one guy behind the counter that also drives the fork lift to go get your wood.

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:24 pm
by BB Sig
What a deal! I would have been tempted to buy a few extra sheets to keep around. I hope the rest of the yak works out this way for you. :D

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:46 pm
by OptiMystic
I thought about that. But I had already agreed to keep the hobby purchase I was planning under $100 (we were on a beach vacation and already going over budget), which is why I had been planning to just get the 2 meranti boards for $41 each to do the hull and then I was going to get 3mm okoume for frames and decks later this summer at another place I would be near for $47 a board. The plans say either 3mm or 4mm will work. I like the idea of it being all 4mm okoume better especially when I got that cheaper than the mixed species and thickness option would have been.

Re: WV13

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:12 pm
by OptiMystic
Cut the forms.

Image

EDIT - One of the forms is slightly crooked in the picture; I had to make a minor adjustment to one of the stringers. When I put it together to actually use it, I will line everything up exactly and secure the forms.

Re: WV13

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:03 am
by pee wee
Looking forward to watching this come together. I've been thinking this would be a fun build, and a useful little boat. :D

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:48 am
by OptiMystic
Test fit. I worried over butt joining with just glass tape for no reason; the planks feel solid. The epoxy needs to cure a little longer before I properly trim and sand the glass tape, but I wanted to see how close the fit is. I just attached the bottom sides to the bottom with a few pieces of painter's tape and then I also held up one of the top side planks to see how it will fit. I don't think I will have any trouble stitching it; the fit is pretty good.

Kind of exciting; finally to the point where someone walking up on it might realize what I am making.

Image

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:25 am
by topwater
looking good! I wouldnt worry about those glassed butt joints my whole boat is held togeather with them :-)

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:36 am
by OptiMystic
topwater wrote:looking good! I wouldnt worry about those glassed butt joints my whole boat is held togeather with them :-)
Funny thing is I was worried about the planks hinging or breaking there but it actually seems slightly stiffer through that section. But it does bend through the section, so it isn't brittle or anything; just a slightly stronger spring through that part.

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:43 am
by jacquesmm
After many thousands boats built that way, you can trust the method.
Be optimistic. :)

Re: WV13

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:15 pm
by OptiMystic
Sorry about the blurry photo. This was early on; there are more stitches and better alignment now.

Image

I stitched over the weekend and glued it enough to hold the shape so I can work out some interior details before I move on to full gluing and glassing (could end up making more stitches/holes).

Anyway, I found a build of a different kayak that has a home built rod pod in it as an example to go by.

From this page: http://www.kayakfishingnz.com/forum/vie ... 0&start=60

a few posts down, you see it out of the yak. Skip ahead to page 10 and you will see it in the yak.

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:49 pm
by pee wee
Any progress on the kayak? Pictures would be nice, too. :D

Re: WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:06 pm
by OptiMystic
I am terrible about that, sorry. I have made progress. It has glass on the hull but my craftsmanship is not that great. It also has holes in it with fiberglass tubes epoxied in to make it more of a SOT. I am using the plans to get a good hull design and bulkhead placement and kind of veering off. The cockpit will be sculpted styrofom that I glass over. Right now the interior looks like a canoe with standpipes coming out of the floor; they will be drains. I will try to get some pictures this weekend.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:24 pm
by dbcrx
Just to save any confusion (by me mostly), I've changed the topic of this thread to "OptiMystics WV13". I started the thread in anticipation of my build but still haven't started it yet. After being too busy, not having space, making the rudder for the SK16 instead and generally doing other stuff, lunchtime work conversations have now led to another little project and the materials that were waiting to be the WV13 are now being turned into something else. :roll: I won't post too much on the actual build as it's not a Bateau design (we've come up with our own designs! :help: ) but may post a quick pic or two when it's done - if it floats.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:25 pm
by dbcrx
PS. looking forward to seeing more of yours OptiMystic. Sounds like it's getting interesting.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:34 pm
by OptiMystic
It wasn't my intent to hijack, but I guess I did. Sorry about that. I had first posted because I was interested in following a build while I planned mine and then when mine started actually slowly unfolding...

I am aiming for a true launch in late spring. I say "true launch" because I will actually splash the hull quite soon to check how far up the drains water comes with me and some weight in it and decide exactly where the seat should be. This will happen with just the bottom fully sealed with unpainted glass on the bottom.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:50 pm
by pee wee
You had me confused, glad you were able to straighten things out- I don't think I've ever seen a thread so completely hijacked, though. Should be some kind of prize! :lol:

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:54 pm
by dbcrx
No worries. I did start this thread over a year ago and still haven't started the build yet, so someone may as well use it! :lol:

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:22 pm
by OptiMystic
OK, so some catching up. i did a float test to make sure the drains I am planning to use will work and to make sure the seat will work where Ithink.

I have the bottom hull built with drains in it:
Image

and I put some styrofoam blocks in:
Image

mounted the seat on a piece of ply:
Image

and dropped it in a pond to check it out:
Image

It did okay. I put 2 gallon jugs of water in the bow and 3 in the stern and got in again. Water was pretty close to the top of the drains (they are a little over 5" off the bottom). So I think building up the styrofoam to just above them will work perfectly.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:52 pm
by jacquesmm
It looks good and your testing matches my calculations if your weight is around 170 lbs.
What is that kink in the rubrail?

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:22 pm
by OptiMystic
I think I got the one form slightly off. When I clamped the rail, I cracked on both sides. I thought about tearing it out but it resolves to a curve before the water line and I convinced myself it would resolve itself at the the top also. Obviously it did not. But the hull is rock solid. I think/hope it will just be a visual imperfection, especially once I get the deck in place. If all that damages is my pride, I can live with that. Is there a bigger problem than aesthetics?

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:26 pm
by jacquesmm
No, it should be strong. You be able to correct it a little bit while putting the deck on:
- attache a temporary batten to the rubrail before decking and get it fair.
- install the deck
- remove the temporary batten.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:34 pm
by OptiMystic
I take it the temporary goes on the outside(?). Screwed in and then repair the holes after removing it? I felt pretty sure about the strength, which is why I pressed on. It's only right at the top that it kinks a little and not enough to have lifted any face grain in the okoume or anything.

Also, I used 7.5 oz cloth on the outside of the hull; got a good deal and thought every little bit helps. But it slurped up a bit more epoxy than I expected. I don't think this is a problem either, just noting it. I may end up a little heavier than most.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:32 am
by dbcrx
Did you glue the frames in first then glue sections of batten between them? It's hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the frames are cutting through the battens and you have a kink at each frame. I think normally you should glue the batten full length first which will help give a smooth curve and then trim the frames to fit loosely inside.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 am
by OptiMystic
I started full length and cracked and broke battens and then cut them cleanly instead. You hit what is likely my trouble - the frame were not loosely fitting inside, at least not near the top. I should have trimmed or recut them. Too much short session "I need to get this done today" work and much of it late night. Yeah, I screwed up and pressed on but Jacque's assurance that I will get a strong boat is encouraging. I believe I will get the functional boat I am after out of this, but it may not be a thing of beauty. Maybe I should call it a Breaker instead of a Wave...

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 am
by OptiMystic
I started full length and cracked and broke battens and then cut them cleanly instead. You hit what is likely my trouble - the frame were not loosely fitting inside, at least not near the top. I should have trimmed or recut them. Too much short session "I need to get this done today" work and much of it late night. Yeah, I screwed up and pressed on but Jacque's assurance that I will get a strong boat is encouraging. I believe I will get the functional boat I am after out of this, but it may not be a thing of beauty. Maybe I should call it a Breaker instead of a Wave...

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:52 am
by dbcrx
Don't worry, I'm sure it will be plenty strong enough too.

I had a similar issue with the deck on one of my kayaks. The deck was supposed to be one piece from the front going down the sides with camber across it. The frame was obviously a bit too high and put a slight curve in it lengthways too. Decent marine ply would probably have taken it with a bit of force, but the cheap stuff I was using just cracked along the frame. So, I recut it in 3 pieces - one for the front and one for each side and made a feature of it by making the kink obvious. No one has ever questioned it! :lol:
Image
Image

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:16 am
by OptiMystic
Oddly, aesthetics is one thing that drove me this way also, though I may not have made the best decision. When the batten cracked/broke along both sides, it was uneven; I could see that the lines were not symmetric. Cutting made the break at the same spot and symmetric. The only people who have questioned the kinks are other builders.

A landscaper buddy is giving me some help/advice with getting the foam properly gap filled and suitably firm enough to form the cockpit. I posted a picture of an Evolution before as my pattern of sorts, but a Supralite is a closer size match.
Image
I will make it only slightly different to accept the seat I got:
Image
and not as form fitting as I have drains at all four corners of the cockpit.

One thing I wonder about is if I will ever want a rudder system and should I think about having some sort of conduit? I kind of think not; I may just want a removable fin/skeg at the stern. I have paddled a couple of boats with fixed fins and they don't turn as easily but track well when dealing with crosswinds, which would be the primary concern I may have. But a number of popular boats up to 15' or so commonly paddled at the coast have neither rudder nor fin.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:33 pm
by OptiMystic
Working on the rod storage and console. The seat will be over where the clamp is so the console will be between my knees. Tested stuffing a couple of rods in and it works fine. The rods are fed in through the console, under the seat, tankwell and stern. There is a divider in the channel so the eyes won't hang up on each other. I should be able to slip both rods in and have a little extra room for a small bag and close a hatch over them before paddling out through the waves.

Dry fit; they are not glued in yet.

ImageImage

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:10 pm
by pee wee
Looking good. That's a great thing about building your own boat, getting all the details just like you want.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:46 pm
by OptiMystic
Thanks. It won't be the prettiest girl at the dance, but I am confident I will have a good beach and in shore boat by summer. Too chilly to do any epoxy work though; I was going to seal the corners of the storage channel with a slurry and leave it in the garage with a heater, but it is going down to the teens tonight. My wimpy little heater wouldn't stand a chance. It may be a couple of weeks before I get more done.

I have 2 part foam on hand now also. I have some heavy duty styro from industrial frozen shipping containers that I am using. I will cut blocks to about the right shape and use the 2 part as filler/adhesive. I will do that to get just above drain level going up and on the sides to get a shape somewhat similar to the Stealth but slightly more open inside.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:06 pm
by Boost240sx
I've been considering a very similar rod storage to mine but I may carry it forward instead of aft.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:22 pm
by OptiMystic
So yours is still in progress? Since you were so far along in October I thought you might be done. You do nice work, BTW. I thought about the front way also, but the limit that puts on length concerned me and because I had decided on a big tankwell, the area under it was already dead space. I also convinced myself, rightly or wrongly, that it will actually be more awkward to pull rods out toward you. It seems more natural in a way, but you will have to get out of the way. I will have to dig around for the link (I think it may be earlier in this thread) but I have seen this design on at least one model.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:31 pm
by Boost240sx
Thanks. My first time with major fiberglass work so it has been a learning process.

I saw your post on mine after I posted the one above. I just posted some float testing I've done, it has been too cold for resin to kick off and also hunting season. I finished some of the fillets for the seat stringers and it took almost a week for them to cure so I figure I'd take a break till it got a little warmer.

I had the same thought about the direction until I borrowed a friend's store bought kayak that went forward and it is less awkward than I thought. Most of my rods are 6' and that happens to be the perfect distance from the bow to frame C.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:02 pm
by OptiMystic
I found the boat I was talking about - the Eddyline Caribbean 14.

At about 1:30 in this video you will see the rod storage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNchDo3PU8s#t=156
Scary implementation - all interconnected.

I combined it with the design from this thread which you may find of interest:
http://www.kayakfishingnz.com/forum/vie ... 0&start=60
he did what you are proposing.

So are you doing the drains? Side or bottom?

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:50 pm
by Boost240sx
I've seen the second one and plan on something similar but not as high and 2 of the rod holders below with the bottom sealed off and maybe a partial tray under the cap.

Image

Image

I'll have to check the youtube one out this evening.

By drains do you mean the scuppers for the cockpit? If so I found scupper inserts at a local kayak store that conveniently fit in a PVC pipe that I'm going to insert in the 4 corners of the cockpit. I figured with the camber in the sole I'll need them in all four corners and cut the PVC flush. I figured I can always add more fairly easily if I find it doesn't drain fast enough.

http://www.rei.com/product/833761/ocean ... 4044271280|

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:20 pm
by OptiMystic
yes I mean scuppers. I am avoiding PVC for scuppers; my understanding is that epoxy won't permanently seal it. I bought some fiberglass pipe instead. I went a bit overboard, but I plan to paddle through breakers. Both the cockpit and tankwell have 4 - 1.25" ID (1.5" OD .125" wall) scuppers. Sitting up on blocks, you would have trouble filling it with anything short of a fire hose. I will plug them in flat water.

I am still undecided on rod holders. I like those you show. I would consider using PVC like that where there is a surface lip you can put a gasket under and use a mechanical fastener with. I will likely have 2 rods. I may go with a purpose built crate that fits the tankwell almost exactly and has a very secure fastener and put the rod holders in it. Nor sure...

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:42 pm
by OptiMystic
I ran this calculator:
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g
on my pipes and if they were draining into open air, they would drain about four and a half liters per second - each!

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:24 pm
by Boost240sx
I should have pointed out that when I put them in I'll do as I did for the tube in the bow and stern for handles and that is wrap the PVC in fiberglass tape then fiberglass the external tape on the outside of the tube to the hull. If for some reason it ever leaked it is still in a fiber glass tube and above the water line.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:09 pm
by jacquesmm
OptiMystic wrote:. . .I bought some fiberglass pipe instead. .
It is easy to make fiberglass tubes cheaply in that diameter: warp some fiberglass around an old neon tube. When cured, break the tube and you have a super nice straight fiberglass tube.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:16 pm
by OptiMystic
I need to put more confidence in fiberglass; I know a simple wrap of cloth would probably be fine. These tubes are heavier duty than that; I could slip rod holders or cart posts into them with no concern. They would probably withstand small arms fire. :help:

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:09 pm
by OptiMystic
OK, I bought something that may seem a little odd:
Image
It's a half rack for a commercial dishwasher. Behind the seat, in the tank well, I am going to make the front part of the space fit this sideways (just as pictured) with only a little to spare on either side and then taper the sides toward the stern leaving a trapezoid about 20" at the big end, 16" at the small end and about 1' between the ends. Not positive what I will stow in that spot yet, but probably a small soft cooler. The reason for doing this instead of the more standard milk crate is simple - I can keep it flat across the top. I have a 12" x 40" fish/bait bag that I can lay flat on top of gear. But if I am not taking it or just really need to cram in a bunch of gear, I might be able to squeeze in a regular square milk crate instead of the soft cooler.

I will likely add low angle rod holders at the front corners of the crate. I am pretty good about minimizing tackle and that is actually big enough to hold a fair amount. I really like the idea of being able to have a crate back there without giving up the flat deck space.

Skeg?

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:04 pm
by OptiMystic
Is a skeg a good idea on this boat? I will likely be using it on open water with wind.

Re: OptiMystics WV13

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:32 am
by pee wee
How's progress, anything to show?