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FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:59 pm
by finalfront
So, I've muddled through the early stages of my FS14 build. I'm in Sedgwick Maine hustling to get some progress this summer before the Fall and temps lowering in my uninsulated garage. I've glued up panels, framed up molds, stitched up sections (first too tight, then too loose, then too tight, ugh. - hope i left enough gap for glue to do it's job). Now I've used EZ-Fillet (conservative amounts, hope it's enough) in seams and sanded fillet and edges all down to a smooth, rounded over edge. I think I'm ready for fiberglassing seams, but would like opinions on how I've done, how it looks, etc. The sanding brought 80% of areas down to smooth surface, but still some epoxy and fillet mild raises and bumpy areas - seems that fiberglassing will go over these areas and all will be okay. If anyone disagrees, let me know sooner than later. Ha.
Here's some pics, I hope.
Wes
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:05 pm
by BB Sig
Looks good! :D

Check out the boweye made by some of your fellow Maine residents:

http://www.bayofmaineboats.com/boweye.htm

Really nice for the small boats.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:38 pm
by finalfront
Bb sig, love the bow eye. I'll order it up. Assume I drill hole for it after fiberglass seams..

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:44 pm
by Jeff
FinalFront, really nice work!!! Please keep those photos coming!!! Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:31 pm
by finalfront
So, after reading some other posts,, I'm concerned that I didnt get enough gap btwn boards before I used ez fillet to glue seams. Especially on the keel & transom edges. Some of the keel had gap, but some was pretty tight. I didn't use any specific spacers on it. On sides & bottom edges, there was a V wedge created using a nail under zip tie. Though boards did pretty much all touch. With transom, I had to screw a few spots to hold up sides & down the bottom, so no glue specifically btwn edge of transom & sides/bottom. Just in V wedge where they met at edges.
If this is a problem structurally, I need to deal with it now.
Input? Jacques? See pics in this thread.
Thanks, wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:43 am
by jaydillyo@yahoo.com
It's not going to be a problem. Very little of the strength comes from the glue in between the panels. Once you fiberglass tape these joints they will be very strong.

The reason for keeping a space is so the panels aren't pushing against each other which can lead to bowed or warped panels. If the shape of your hull looks smooth and fair then you're all set.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:33 am
by Dougster
Re epoxy lumps and bumps not yet sanded out: a little scrapper can help a lot with these without sanding down the surrounding ply.

Dougster

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:27 pm
by finalfront
Thanks Jaydilyo, I obviously agree with you, since i went forward and glued it up as I did, however some of the other threads seem to indicate I may not have done it correctly.
Hey Jacques, if you're around, can you weigh in on this issue - see my 8/2/17 post about the gap / glue issue and the detailed pics i attached.
Thanks, wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:55 pm
by jacquesmm
No problem with your build.
The purpose of the gaps is to avoid hard spots. I see that the contact between your panels is very consistent, I do not see anything that looks like a hard spot.
I still prefer a small gap simply because it gives a guarantee that there will not be any hard spot.
Your panels were cut by the CNC machine and are very regular, no high and low spots. It is much easier to avoid hard spots with a kit.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:05 pm
by finalfront
Thanks Jacques.. endless second guessing.. I suppose I'm not alone, but ugh.
I'll power on to the fiberglass - I think I'll run it right up the sides to the rail (this will help cover the entire puzzle joint on the sides, which i think is supposed to be covered)- should I just cut cloth at rail edge, or overlay into inside wall a few inches?
Wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:18 pm
by Jaysen
finalfront wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:05 pm Thanks Jacques.. endless second guessing.. I suppose I'm not alone, but ugh.
Hardest part is to just "get it done" and stop trying to make a perfect build. The stitch and glue method is VERY forgiving for a first timer but can STILL turn out amazing finishes (Look for Eric1 and his buid for a current perfectionist making it look easy). You really don't need to be incredibly concerned with perfect. You will have lots of opportunity to recover throughout the entire build process.

Remember, this is supposed to be fun, not work. Unless you're Eric1. :P

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:53 pm
by Browndog
Looks really good. I especially like your bundle of firewood used as a weight to hold a panel in place. :D It is funny what we all grab for a weight when needed.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:27 pm
by Jaysen
Browndog wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:53 pm It is funny what we all grab for a weight when needed.
Just make sure it isn't alive. Neither the dog nor the wife were willing to cooperate. YMMV though.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:41 am
by finalfront
i'm headed to FG bottom of hull - taping seams seems obvious, but see that one wide sheet isn't wide enough for whole bottom & 6" up sides (tutorial is FS12, so it is there, but not for FS14). so i am overlapping two sheets at keel about 6 " either side of keel, and then down sides and transom. Decided it then makes sense to go full way down sides to rail edge (not just 6" past chine). does this make sense?.. tho i think i may run out of wide FG sheeting when i get to the inside.. ??
thoughts?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:05 pm
by Fuzz
I do not think you need to glass all the way up the sides for strength. That being said I like to carry the glass all the way up for a couple of reasons. One you do not have the ridge from stopping the glass short to deal with. And two if you are like me the boat is going to bounce off something and it is nice to have that glass protecting the wood.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:16 pm
by jacquesmm
I am certain that you do not need to fiberglass the whole side: my plans say fiberglass up to 6" above the waterline. More makes the boat unnecessarily heavy and cost more.
Some builders insist on it and in that case, try to use light glass like 3.25 or 4 oz.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:43 pm
by finalfront
Unfortunately, I can never wait to see a reasonable suggestion - such as lighter weight fg.
I already pressed on & went up whole side with fg sheet.
My vacation time is almost done & I wanted to get hull fiberglassed.
Extra cushion for bumps is good, but extra weight is not. Ugh.
Hope I didn't wreck it.
I assume I'll now run short on fg for inside. Any idea if so, & how much more I'll need.?
Some pics to follow.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:01 pm
by finalfront
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:31 am
by Noles309
You will be glad you glassed the whole thing. I had enough to do the entire outside and what was required inside when I bought the FG kit for my GF16.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:36 am
by finalfront
thanks Gary. It looks great, don't see any real bubbles, and pretty smooth, so I'm pleased.
I hope Jacques can forgive me.. I'll stick to plan and just go 6" or so up the inside..
wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:59 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi Finalfront, The boat looks great. I glassed all the way up to my rails as well. I did use 6oz above the spray rail but I don't think it will make that much difference and I think the added protection from fenders and docks etc. will pay off.

Looks like you will be finished with the outside in plenty of time before the winter hits. I'm just down the road (comparatively speaking) in NH so I know the pitfalls of an uninsulated workshop. We spent a week in Belgrade at the beginning of August and have been going for the last few years. Your going to love the fairing process :D . Alan.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:20 am
by OneWayTraffic
I think you are using 400g (12ounce?) Biaxial there, which may be overkill, but keep things in perspective. Fibreglassing an extra foot up the sides would add maybe a kg of weight a side? About 3 pounds extra. All those little bits and pieces add up, but there are worse places to overbuild than the outside fibreglass. The majority of builders seem to glass much more than required and few regret it.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:38 am
by bateau-webmaster
Very nice progress, I've added you to the Build Threads page.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:10 pm
by finalfront
Thanks everyone for input on my glass up the sides. had a few blisters develop about 1" to 2" in size, so i cut open and ground them flat-ish and added a fiberglass patch - of course, now the patches are quite uneven, so hoping i can level them with orbital sander enough to allow fairing to level them off.

Vacation time over, so I'm in a bit of a lull, may have to wait until spring to get going again. ugh.

Quick question regarding size of outboard:
**Can I use a 25hp 2 stroke with remote steering and electric start? - I have a line on a 2005 engine that looks great and at a good price, so i hate to lose it - I had planned a 20hp, but I want a 2 stroke, and i'm having hard time finding a 20hp.
I feel the 2 stroke will be lighter, though I'd have to stow the extra weight of the battery - but could then add a bilge.
I'm planning a small console in front of mid-seat, and hoping balance will work out too.
any comments/advice will help.

*(Stay safe to all in in FL)
wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:11 pm
by finalfront
bateau-webmaster wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:38 am Very nice progress, I've added you to the Build Threads page.
Thanks!

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:03 pm
by TomW1
finalfront the 25HP will work if you go with a console. First you will need to cut down the center seat to be equal to the height of the stringers and leave 3" up the sides. Then route chase tubes back to the aft and forward for mechanicals, lighting, fish finder, bilge pump and what ever else you need power for. Then foam the compartments. Then cover with plywood and fiberglass it. It is listed in the options that you can cover the stringers with plywood.

Tom

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:49 pm
by finalfront
Hi Tom, thanks, I was planning a small console on starboard side in front of mid-seat and run cables etc, under gunwale I plan on installing along sides bow to stern. I think the 25 may be over-power, so to speak, but the 2-stroke is only about 110 lbs, so not too heavy. I would have to put battery and gas tank under rear seat/compartment - possibly put battery (or tank) under midseat on port side for better balance?
it sounds like your suggesting replacing half of midseat with console, and sitting on rear seat.. I'd prefer to sit on midseat and put console in front of it against bow deck (I'm covering bow deck, not using casting deck), if that makes sense.
wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:06 am
by finalfront
Finally getting back to my FS14 build - long winter - anyhow, I'm constructing the rub rail and wanted to be sure about whether I epoxy each layer to rail, one at a time, building it up to three layers (which seems logical), or laminate the three layers off the boat, and then add & bend as a unit (seems difficult)?
Second, is the Skeg.. true 1"x1" out of what type of wood? I assume a hard wood to take a beating and then a stainless steel strip to bottom edge? Can I use 5/4" pressure Treated ripped to 1" width - will epoxy adhere to PT??

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:58 am
by pee wee
It's going to be easier to bend individual rub rail layers, but harder to clean up the edges once in place. Depending on how severe the curve and how wide the rub rail, it will vary between not too bad and practically impossible to bend the assembled rub rail.

Don't use pressure treated, and with the metal strip you can use any wood.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:21 pm
by finalfront
Thanks Hank. That was my direction. appreciate the confirmation. :D

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:51 pm
by Capt UB
I bought pine lattice strips 16' long and 1 1/2" tall x 1/4" thick at Home Depot.
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:50 pm
by finalfront
If Jacques is around, please chime in on this: OK, So I finally got back to my FS14 build and in a fit of short time and lack of intelligence, I put on first layer of rubrail with straight epoxy resin mix (no wood flour, just straight epoxy mix) - like i did transom lamination and puzzle joints, instead of gelmagic glue, which i see is suggested. It is on hard and fast, but is this a grave mistake that I should try to remedy somehow? Of course I hope it is not. ugh. and if not, should i put on subsequent layers with gelmagic?
Help...

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:14 pm
by jacquesmm
As long as it glued, it's fine. If there is a gap, fill it with more epoxy.
Plain epoxy runs, is difficult to apply as a glue on vertical surfaces, that is why we mix it with some wood flour.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:21 pm
by finalfront
Thank you Jacques. I had coated both pieces and let get tacky, and then used epoxy that was setting up (slowly) so it didn't run too much - tho it did of course run.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:01 pm
by Bogieman
jacquesmm wrote: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:14 pm As long as it glued, it's fine. If there is a gap, fill it with more epoxy.
Plain epoxy runs, is difficult to apply as a glue on vertical surfaces, that is why we mix it with some wood flour.
Bet this was music to your ears?... Made a mistake on my AD16 and then made a command decision on how to fix it. Was on pins and needles until Jacques chimed in and gave the thumbs up. Glad it is going to work out for you too.

Bogie

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:45 pm
by finalfront
I guess i have to ask Jacques, to fiberglass over skeg, or not (and just seal with epoxy resin and paint)? I' concerned FB over skeg will just fray and shred.. and I suppose same question for spray rails...

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:57 am
by thb
I just installed a keel on my FS17 as previous builder had not installed one. I took a clear piece of cypress 1-1/2 by 1-1/2 and then rounded the bottom two edges so fiberglass cloth would lay nicely on top. I then cut out a shallow v-groove in the side which mounts to the bottom so that there was a descent fit to the hull panels. Less wood flour epoxy required when gluing it to the hull. Made large radius fillets with wood flour epoxy at the interface between keel and hull panels. Again this was so fiberglass cloth would lay nicely between hull panels and keel. I actually screwed the keel in place as I was working upside down at the time. Screws could be removed after epoxy set up but I left mine installed.

I then moved the boat outside and flipped it so I could properly finish the keel and bottom.

The next day, sanded the fillets and keel to clean up goobers of wood flour epoxy. Yeah we all make goobers which get cleaned up with sander. Then laid biax tape on each side and let each one overlap at the bottom surface of the keel so there were two layers there. I was amazed how nicely they laid down on each other. Then next day I laid another layer of fiberglass 3 inch tape over the keel. So effectively I have 3 layers of fiberglass at the very bottom of the keel. Yesterday put another layer of epoxy on the keel to fill in some of the weave. Had some resin left over from sharpening the chines.

The whole bottom wetted surface will receive 2 or 3 coats of epoxy graphite after fairing is done.

Yuck- fairing. I hate fairing.

Hope this helps.
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:05 am
by thb
Oh forgot the mention, the epoxy graphite if harder than nails when finished and make the bottom and keel almost impervious to wear from beaching, etc. We have lots of oyster beds down here so it should be able to take anything you have up in Maine.
Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:32 pm
by finalfront
Guess I'll FG two strips over skeg. I may also mold some flat (reverse) chines with gelmagic to avoid spray rail. Thots on that?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:02 pm
by finalfront
IMG_20180710_092638.jpg
Clips phew
Clips phew
Rubrail
Rubrail
Skeg with gelmagic
Skeg with gelmagic
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:29 pm
by OrangeQuest
It looks good! Just hope you have enough clamps!

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm
by Bogieman
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:29 pm It looks good! Just hope you have enough clamps!
I'm guessing he does, OQ! Makes things a whole lot easier when you have that many.


Looking good.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:10 pm
by finalfront
Clamps are like cow bell, never enough...

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:07 pm
by finalfront
Rubrail sanded & coated with resin.
Rubrail sanded & coated with resin.
Rubrail sanded & coated with resin.
Rubrail sanded & coated with resin.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:32 pm
by finalfront
So, I struggled with laying 6 Oz FG tape over skeg. Even though I rounded edges & did use some fillet on bottom joint, it did not stay put & created bubbles all along corners. Apparently not rounded enough at corners, & I had to sand it off. I'm thinking if skipping FG over skeg. Can't see where it's part of plan anyhow, but I did want tough skeg for rough shore. Any thoughts on what I should do? Or just leave it as sacrificial & call it a day with a couple coats of epoxy resin & bottom paint.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:40 pm
by OrangeQuest
Mix graphite in with your epoxy and do to the shear line.

One thing I did to help my tape form around the 90 degree angles was fold it and put weight on it for a few days. After wetting the area I am putting it I lay the tape against the corner and stick one side, unfold and stick the other. The crease of the fold in the corner.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:42 pm
by finalfront
I'm thinking graphite mix may be good & tough enough for skeg & good bottom cover too. However, I have silvertip epoxy bottom primer & Trinidad bottom paint already. These two seem pretty tough. Should I consider epoxy graphite mix as add'l pre-coat. Or stick with what I have?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
I said shear but the chine.
Isn't the Trinidad paint for a boat that will stay in the water for long periods at a time? I think what most builders do is just use the graphite mix for their bottom layer.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:55 am
by Capt UB
finalfront wrote: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:42 pm I'm thinking graphite mix may be good & tough enough for skeg & good bottom cover too. However, I have silvertip epoxy bottom primer & Trinidad bottom paint already. These two seem pretty tough. Should I consider epoxy graphite mix as add'l pre-coat. Or stick with what I have?

The epoxy/graphite is for protection from sand/oyster bars, hitting things. Trinidad is for antifouling of marine growth. The two are not the same.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:54 am
by finalfront
True. Boat will be in water for 3 to 4 months.. Maybe go with primer & then epoxy graphite mix (then Trinidad as last coat or just epoxy graphite mix as last coat)?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:58 am
by Capt UB
finalfront wrote: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:54 am True. Boat will be in water for 3 to 4 months.. Maybe go with primer & then epoxy graphite mix (then Trinidad as last coat or just epoxy graphite mix as last coat)?


I've used Trinidad on one of my sailboats, good stuff. I'm guessing be it should go over the graphite/epoxy mix if you ruff up the the mix. Primer is not needed for the graphite/epoxy mix.

This will help,

http://www.pettitpaint.com/media/4018/p ... pds-17.pdf

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:53 am
by finalfront
I've been fairing and sanding.. I failed on smoothing FG very well originally, so extra fairing material has been ordered. Certainly recommend using plastic sheeting (I did not).
Anyhow, I'm planning to finish fairing bottom and sides, and then add spray rails, but now I'm thinking Reverse (flat) chines like SideSlippa on his OB17 - his pics best seen in another post (and endorsed by Jacques as a good method): https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... ne#p247041
I think they'd look great, well contained in hull design, and probably just as easy as adding spray rail. I'm thinking about 5/8" to 3/4" height extending up from the side, and about 2 to 2 1/2" wide at stern, and begin tapering, at about 4'-5' from bow, down to nothing at bow or at a foot or so before bow.
**My concerns (I hope * Jacques (jacquesmm)* will hit me with an opinion on all this):
1. Is this an ok thing to do on FS14, instead of spray rails, regarding performance, and spray knock down?
2. If I proceed, should I use epoxy thickened with what? Micro-balloons, Silica, West product? -- using gelmagic is a simpler possibility, but seems expensive and unnecessary use of it?
3. How much will I need extra resin, etc. - I'm thinking extra gallon and half of epoxy, but how much of the filler?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:47 pm
by finalfront
Hi Jacques, any chance you saw my last post. was wondering if you had any thoughts on my questions.. thanx

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:07 pm
by jacquesmm
I use that type of chines on the OB15, CS23/25 and some other boats but I find them very complicated to build and prefer to epoxy glue a spray rail IF you want one.
I don't think you need a spray rail or chine step on that boat.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:26 pm
by finalfront
Thanks Jacques. I may skip chine step for now and add spray rail later if needed.. it does get choppy up here and i do want a dry-ish ride. Can you tell me if it's a mistake to do the chine step as I proposed? or is it just useless on this boat?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:29 pm
by jacquesmm
Not a mistake but not worth the effort.
Many do it to mimic fiberglass boats but those boats need stiffeners and those are made with strakes and chine steps. Our material has sufficient stiffness.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:42 pm
by finalfront
:D ok, i see, just worried about spray actually, and didn't like the look of spray rails... Maybe i should sharpen edges of chine with fairing? would this help with spray issue? (Thank you for your assist on this.. it's the small things that cause me such a angst)

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:57 pm
by finalfront
Best laid plans were not followed well, but finally got back to my build and all I can say is that fairing and sanding (over and over) is horrible. Definitely should have used the plastic peel.. wondering if a quick sanding of raised fibers on glass and then a light coating of resin would have leveled/smoothed out many of the cavities and reduced my fairing use. For first timers, I'd definitely suggest buying extra fairing compound (Quick fair does seem the way to go for ease).
Anyhow, I think I just s*ck at fairing - tried long 2' trowel, then short hand held (work better), then putty knife for misc cavities. Still bumpy in places and pinholes (and misc fiberglass cloth cavities), painted a thin primer coat and felt hull is generally fair, just not smooth throughout.. sanded, putty knifed some more quickfair. Done.
I've read the option is for a "workboat" finish - I'm taking that option, though I may not have even gotten it to that level.
Some pics below (they look better than it is, or maybe not. Ha)- I'm waiting for first coat of epoxy graphite to dry - put on real thin - had hoped it would hide more, but alas, not so much. maybe second coat..
IMG_20180717_154845.jpg
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:24 pm
by finalfront
After fairing and sanding and hoping to sharpen chine (as I hear it helps with performance and spray reduction - as I've chosen no spray rails), I found it impossible to use fairing to sharpen chine - also I feel it will be too soft and chip away. So, I contemplated using the cardboard dam and fill void with gelmagic, thus creating a kindof "reverse chine", but that seemed overkill and needed tons of gelmagic, or another filler. I decided to use an "outside corner" plaster/drywall trowel and I bent it open a bit more than 90 degrees to allow it to ride the chine (matching the bottom and side angles with some steady pressure from me). I then ran a bead of gelmagic down the chine, tapering off about 2 and 1/2 feet from bow. I ran the trowel on it and it created about a 1" overlap on side and bottom, give or take. Made a nice fairly sharp chine and hardened up solid. (Wish I had done this before I did any fairing, but hope it will still hold - certainly seems hard as rock.) It did create the mildest rise on the chine, far from reverse, but hope it works out. Hard to see in pics - sorry.
So, after more sanding, I used system 3d yacht epoxy primer I had purchased before I decided to go epoxy/graphite - thought it might fill some small dings and cavities because it says high build, but alas, it did not. Put on two light coats, and moved on to epoxy/graphite. Can't handle it anymore.. whatever the finish is, I'll live with it. 1st coat of epoxy/graph is drying - still showing imperfections - let's go! Work finish at its worst...
Oh yeah, what's with the waterline.. much research (people with lasers, etc.), but best I could come up with is measure down from keel on transom 5", draw level line across transom, tape string at corner (which becomes about a 3" drop from stern corner/chine), pull string taught around side of boat below chine and tape at about a 1 1/2 - 2" drop from Bow chine tip/nose. Then, I kindof adjusted string along, so that at mid-seat area it had about 3 1/2 - 3 3/4" down from Chine. created a nice curve, with bit deeper at mid seat area (which made sense to me). We'll see how it goes once boat is in the water (in five years, at this rate).
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:15 pm
by Jeff
Nice work FinalFront!!! Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:45 pm
by finalfront
:) thanks Jeff..

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:20 pm
by OrangeQuest
Looks like you are ready for the flip pretty soon! Looks good!

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:23 pm
by finalfront
Painted sides with wr-lpu.. Gloss shows all the imperfections.. Decided to consider it a learning experience. Fairing & Sanding very tricky stuff.
Painted bottom with Pettit hydrocoat (over the epoxy graphite, after I wet sanded it with 100 Grit then after with 80 Grit).
Looks pretty good. Hope bottom paint sticks well.
About to flip tonight...
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:33 pm
by Jeff
Nice work FinalFront!! Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:17 am
by finalfront
So, boat flipped, looks good. I'm preparing to FG the inside.. I had gone all the way up the outside of the hull with 12 oz cloth (kind of a mistake, but should prove to take wear and tear better.).
for the inside, i was planning on following the instructions and go just 6-8" up inside sides. What about the transom.? Should I go all the way to the top (filleting along clamping board edge)? I am using a 20hp about 125 lbs. Extra strength beneficial?
If I do go to top of Transom, do I go over edge/top, or stop at top edge top edge clear wood with epoxy coating?
Any advice is welcome.. Jeff, Jacques?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:20 am
by Eric1
If it were mine, I would glass the transom and seal the top edge.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:38 am
by finalfront
so, my tape job on the inside went very well. rolled on epoxy onto all inside sides and bottom, let get tacky and filleted and then lay tape and wet with roller. perfect. I should mention the temp here is about 62 when I did this. The original coat of epoxy on the wood and now over the tape job is still tacky an hour later, so I went forward with FG cloth. I did not add any more epoxy before I did this. The cloth was tricky to align because so tacky, but i was able to get it aligned and smoothed out by hand. I added what I thought was quite a lot of epoxy by 1/4" nap roller and then over with bubble buster roller in spots that sat up. I had a real hard time getting cloth to absorb epoxy. I should mention it got late and temp dropped to 52 degrees - though I was in garage and door closed, but sure it was at best 55.
I suppose I screwed up with temps so low, because this morning, about 7 hours later, I found a lot of epoxy starved cloth and several bubbles. It was still slightly tacky in places too. I assume temp is the culprit and did not allow heavy cloth to take epoxy.
I had thot about wetting out wood and tape again before I laid cloth, but it seemed that I'd never be able to adjust cloth correctly.
In any case, I did not.. So, The bottom (inside) panels seemed to be about 80% pretty good & I went back and brushed on more epoxy where it appeared starved and hope it will take (but today is raining and about 52). I then cut open the bubbles (all the bubbles were on sides and transom) and filled with epoxy and lay back smooth. Seems the vertical areas were the worst to not take the epoxy originally.
I even had some areas as big as 5" square that didnt even stick to the wood, so I either lifted and re-epoxied under, or patched with new wet-ed cloth.
The corners actually came out the best..
I'll take a couple pics, and post.
Am I screwed on this.. the thought of sanding it down and re-doing cloth is mind-boggling.
Feedback from Jacques would be greatly appreciated.
(PS. I only went up about half of inside transom with cloth - per instructions..

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:44 am
by finalfront
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 am
by finalfront
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:34 pm
by finalfront
So, I'm back at boat building for a short bit and am installing inside seats and stringers. I remember reading about lowering stringers btwn seats to install sole at slightly lower level. My memory is this can be done to 3"? I want lower it to 3" btwn stern seat and mid-seat (and leave full height within the mid-seat and stern seat compartment,-- but then btwn mid-seat and bow it tapers less than 3" already. Can I cut it down in this area at all?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:00 pm
by Capt UB
finalfront wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:34 pm So, I'm back at boat building for a short bit and am installing inside seats and stringers. I remember reading about lowering stringers btwn seats to install sole at slightly lower level. My memory is this can be done to 3"? I want lower it to 3" btwn stern seat and mid-seat (and leave full height within the mid-seat and stern seat compartment,-- but then btwn mid-seat and bow it tapers less than 3" already. Can I cut it down in this area at all?
Leave the stringers as is.

I put in a deck, no center bench and lowered the foredeck. I did beef up the rub rail, installed thick inwales and glassed inside and outside the hull fully.
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:37 am
by finalfront
Capt UB - Looks great, but I'm leaving in mid seat and putting remote steering. I saw "Bayou.?. " reduced stringer height to 3" (75mm) and it gave him a bit more legroom - I might need this for more comfort around the steering console and behind midseat as well. Can't see how this compromises anything? I had hoped to reduce it a bit in front of midseat as well..
Chime in Jacques, if you're around?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:03 pm
by Capt UB
You should ask the question in the:

Board Index, Plans and Building, Small Boats

JM checks this and so does Jeff.

JM wants 3" min. on frames, not sure about stringers.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:46 am
by OrangeQuest
When I was wanting to put a sole in my FS14 JM stated that the stringers and the frames could be cut to 3" but not any less than 3" .
But....
5322
I did not keep the frames at the minimum 3". But added more frames and will have a sole. My frames are closer together than the plans call for and more of them. There is a maximum distance the frames can be apart too. Once the sole is down, the sides will get 3" ribs and a gunwale. The seams were taped with 12 oz. and inside of hull also has 12oz cloth. Still have one more frame to install once I know where the console will go.

You can see where the sole will meet the bottom of the boat at the black line. I cut the top of the stringer and lost a few inches of the taper towards the bow. There is more than 8 feet from frame A to frame E. This will be a one person utility/fishing boat and at times carry two people. WILL BE VERY HEAVY!

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:06 pm
by jacquesmm
You can lower the stringers but the cockpit will not be self bailing anymore.
Such a small boat can not be made self bailing with crew but it can be self bailing empty at the dock. It is a good safety feature.
However, in this case, with all the reinforcements, the boat may be so heavy that it will never be self bailing.
All those reinforcements; double layers, extra stiffeners, are not necessary. They just make the boat heavier.
keep in mind that for a sandwich bottom panel, I can't specify less than 1 layer 12 oz. each side. That is fine for a PH16 or PH18 but overkill for a 14' boat.
I can't use less: I want 12 oz. outside for resistance to puncture and while I could use 6 oz. biaxial inside, we would gain very little in weight and make our life complicated by buying two different types of fabric for the bottom. Plus biaxial 45/45 in 6 oz. is special order.
That bottom is very stiff as designed.

I owned (and still own) several of my designs and always built them lighter than specified. They never broke or cracked.

From what I see in the picture above, that missing floor frame will not be a problem because the sole meets the bottom further back.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:03 pm
by finalfront
Getting very close. Here's pics. Got Honda 20hp 4-stroke remote engine used..
Two questions :
Engine height - 22"shaft, but 20" transom.. manual says anti-ventilation plate should be 0-2 inches below hull.. It's therefore 2" below hull, logically. Is this to low & if so, must I build up transom by filling in with an inch or so of plywood to the existing arc in design.?
Engine weight - 130 lbs. I added extra 3/8 ply to full transom when building, & extra clamping board. I feel it will handle 130 lbs? Do I need alum plate inside to distribute weight (more than the large washers)?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:17 pm
by finalfront
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:50 pm
by finalfront
Anyone else with thoughts on my last post about transom & engine height & weight? Calling Honda guy tomorrow on why manual says anti-ventilation plate install 0to2 inches below hull.. & why their long shaft is 22"

Here's some pics I finally got sized correctly...
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:44 am
by Jeff
Really nice work!! Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:38 am
by finalfront
Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:44 am Really nice work!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff.
Any thoughts on my questions in post before pics?
Seems I may have to mount/bolt my engine up 2"off transom to get anti-ventilation plate even with hull.
Tricky.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:38 pm
by Jeff
Lets wait and get a response from Jacques. Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:29 pm
by jacquesmm
See this:
https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... ansoms.pdf
In that tutorial, I explain that for planing, the cavitation plate should be flush with the bottom but for displacement speeds, it should be a couple of inches lower.
That is not my opinion or my preference, it is a well accepted practice.
The industry standards (ABYC and ISO) are 15, 20 and 25".

I did not know that Honda made 22" shafts. Do you measure as in my tutorial?
If that's the case, maybe they have a special model for displacement hulls.
I know those exist in Tohatsu and Suzuki but they are rare and usually special order.
Also, they have larger props and a different reduction gear.

The transom can take the bolts with large washers but a Al backing plate never hurts.

Talk to your Honda dealer.
I checked the Honda web site and it looks like the BF20 is always 15 or 20".

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:10 pm
by finalfront
Thanks for chiming in Jacques. (I did look at tutorial)
Honda bf20d manual I have for my model (1600000 models) does say it's a 22.2 inch shaft for long shaft in installation section. Honda dealer (&boat maker) confirms the 22" & says different engines do vary & it's fine with this engine to have anti-ventilation plate below bottom (manual says 0 to 2 inches below ok). He said he'd try it & only raise if an issue.. After more discussion we agreed raising it an inch (thus only 1"below hull) would be good compromise.
Thus top of bracket will be 1" above top of transom & engine solely supported by bolts.
Question: should all 4 bolts be in the thicker clamping board section of transom? Right now, the two bottom bolts are in section just below clamping board section. (also keep in mind I did two pieces of 3/8" ply for whole transom & two more at clamping section, so 3/4" below clamping board).
*I agree & was thinking of using alum sheet piece inside to distribute load along with large washers.
Hoping to get it done tomorrow...
Jacques, Any more advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:10 pm
by finalfront
Here's pic of manual page.
Screenshot_20200818-083527_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:33 am
by jacquesmm
This is weird but Honda outboards 20 HP or less have longer shafts. Check the specs of a 50 or a BF25, the standard shaft is 20", not 22.
I know that's the case for some engines less than 10 HP but all other 15 and 20 I know are 20".

Anyway, for the bolts question: the bolts must be in the full thickness area.
For those lower bolts, use a backing plate, that means, epoxy glue layers of plywood below the existing clamping board to match the thickness of the clamp.
It is below the aft deck, not visible.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:48 am
by finalfront
jacquesmm wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:33 am This is weird but Honda outboards 20 HP or less have longer shafts. Check the specs of a 50 or a BF25, the standard shaft is 20", not 22.
I know that's the case for some engines less than 10 HP but all other 15 and 20 I know are 20".

Anyway, for the bolts question: the bolts must be in the full thickness area.
For those lower bolts, use a backing plate, that means, epoxy glue layers of plywood below the existing clamping board to match the thickness of the clamp.
It is below the aft deck, not visible.
I can squeeze all 4 bolts on existing clamping board now (bottom two will only be about 1/2" up from transition of clamping bd to bottom section). Or, as you say, I can just add about 3" of 3/4" ply board under clamping board & use holes I've already drilled. (likely with alum backing plate for all 4 bolts).
Which will be best.. Heavy engine and all?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:21 pm
by VT_Jeff
Boat looks great, finalfront! I have a very old copy of Wooden Boat in my "reading room" and it features the Simmons Sea Skiff, your boat has some similar features as that, which I like a lot.

Here's my .02 based on some info I found in this article: YMMV, literally in this case.

I'm going to let the lower unit hang a little low and not worry about it. Extrapolating the data shown below down to my expected speeds, the calculated loss is negligible. I may be searching for info with bias, admittedly. IMO, the vent plate is going to plane whether it's at the surface or 2" below, and I'm sure the reynolds numbers are not there for attached flow in either case. It's a plate, not a foil, so it's not going to recover any energy. The extra 2 inches of drag may cause me to burn an ideal 2.2 GPH at WOT instead of an ideal 2.0 GPH at WOT, but I'm not willing to start changing my transom for that savings at this point. My last boat was 11.5 GPH at WOT so I am already WAY ahead of the game.

Please take my analysis with a grain of salt, I know barely enough to be dangerous on most of these topics.

https://media.channelblade.com/boat_gra ... tricks.pdf
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:25 pm
by finalfront
Thanks Jeff.
I'm going up 1" & thus 1" below. Good middle. Appreciate the article & thoughts.
Thanks Wes

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:17 pm
by OlivierP
When I built my GF14, I checked the specs of several engines 10-15hp, and as it happens, to my surprise most "long shafts" were 22" long instead of 20 : Honda, but also Yamaha and Tohatsu, if my memory is correct only Suzuki made real 20" shafts. Therefore I built my transom 22" high, because it's easier to shorten than to extend... I ended up buying a 9.9 Yam and it is perfectly flush with the bottom on the 22" transom.

Your FS looks fantastic, congratulations!

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:59 pm
by finalfront
OlivierP wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:17 pm When I built my GF14, I checked the specs of several engines 10-15hp, and as it happens, to my surprise most "long shafts" were 22" long instead of 20 : Honda, but also Yamaha and Tohatsu, if my memory is correct only Suzuki made real 20" shafts. Therefore I built my transom 22" high, because it's easier to shorten than to extend... I ended up buying a 9.9 Yam and it is perfectly flush with the bottom on the 22" transom.

Your FS looks fantastic, congratulations!
Thanks, that's what my Honda dealer said that most are 21" or 22".. Live & learn.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:08 am
by finalfront
Engine bolted on. Added extra 5/8 ply below clamping board & alum plate to spread load. Attached all cables except throttle/shift bc missing cable clip in engine. Ugh - another fault in buying used engine (was missing pivot ends too). Clip due in tomorrow. Launch Wed or Thurs.
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:19 pm
by finalfront
Launched.. Smooth ride..
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Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:23 pm
by VT_Jeff
Congrats, what a payoff to a long process! Looks great out on the water, you have to be stoked!

Very interested to hear some performance info if you have any as I'm building similar boat, same motor.

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:41 pm
by Jeff
She is a beauty!!! Congrats!!! Jeff

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm
by finalfront
Performance is awesome. 20hp is perfect. Still mildly concerned about weight on transom (used transom saver when on trailer) . You saw I added 5/8" thick 4" deep (& width to each stringer) ply below clamping boards & I added alum plate inside to help distribute weight on bolts. I mounted 1" high off transom thus 1"below bottom. Seems perfect. No spray, loads of power. Balance good with tank & battery in rear & me (& wife usually) steering remotely in front (middle seat).

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:56 pm
by VT_Jeff
That's great to hear, very encouraging. I'm still considering ss brackets between transom and rub rail, I assume your quarter knees are more for the cleats than for reinforcement, true?

Re: FS14 Build - Pics, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:59 pm
by VT_Jeff
Some very downeast looking boats in the background, btw, what a great backdrop for your launch!