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mistake?
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:35 pm
by peter-curacao
Hi Jacques,
Sorry to bother you again but after reading building notes again I think I made a mayor mistake with the transom, thing is I used 3 layers of plywood without the clamping board now I see in the notes I need 5 layers (I always thought that was about the glass) please tell me if I made a mistake and please advice me what to do
Thank's in advance
Peter
CS 25
From memory, the ABYC standards for 250 HP specify 2.25" total
thickness (57 mm), I prefer a little more.
Most of that thickness should come from the plywood core.
Look at the nesting drawing: you have 3 layers for the transom plus 2
for the clamping board. This means 5*12= 60 mm plus glass at the motor
clamp.
What do you have?
PS: I prefer to discuss this on the message board, others will learn
from it.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:39 pm
by peter-curacao
I have three (3) It’s a little confusing in the notes it says Full transom no clamping board, looking at Ollie's posting I'm afraid he is going to make the same mistake (I hope he isn’t) so now what to do
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:11 pm
by bernd1
Peter,
I'm not a designer, but I think you have to glue the 2 boards.
Let us see what Jaques recommends - don't be sad there gives always a solution.
Your boat looks so pretty - I'm sure you finish the project successful.
Bye
Bernd
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:14 pm
by jacquesmm
The nesting drawing shows 3+2 layers.
For a full transom, you use the same 5 layers but do not cut the last 2 down to the clamping board level.
See this on page 2 of the building notes:
[quote]Note that the full transom is made of the transom 1-1/2â€
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:15 pm
by peter-curacao
bernd1 wrote:Peter,
I'm not a designer, but I think you have to glue the 2 boards.
Let us see what Jaques recommends - don't be sad there gives always a solution.
Your boat looks so pretty - I'm sure you finish the project successful.
Bye
Bernd
Thanks bernd! I'm thinking the same I only hope I can glue those two over the glass that's already in
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:18 pm
by peter-curacao
[quote="jacquesmm"]The nesting drawing shows 3+2 layers.
For a full transom, you use the same 5 layers but do not cut the last 2 down to the clamping board level.
See this on page 2 of the building notes:
[quote]Note that the full transom is made of the transom 1-1/2â€
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:28 pm
by TomW
[quote="peter-curacao"][quote="jacquesmm"]The nesting drawing shows 3+2 layers.
For a full transom, you use the same 5 layers but do not cut the last 2 down to the clamping board level.
See this on page 2 of the building notes:
[quote]Note that the full transom is made of the transom 1-1/2â€
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:32 pm
by bernd1
peter-curacao wrote:bernd1 wrote:Peter,
I'm not a designer, but I think you have to glue the 2 boards.
Let us see what Jaques recommends - don't be sad there gives always a solution.
Your boat looks so pretty - I'm sure you finish the project successful.
Bye
Bernd
Thanks bernd! I'm thinking the same I only hope I can glue those two over the glass that's already in
Peter,
I would first glue the two pieces together and then glue this package to the installed one.
I think the most important thing is to prepare the surface of the inside to have a good bond.
To hold the right position during curing I would possibly use dowels - big dowels.
I would dry check how it fits and then mix the glue. Don't forget that you have to glue at a vertical piece.....gravity fighting - you know.
Have fun to glue...
Bye
Bernd
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:23 pm
by jacquesmm
Yes tape again, fiberglass again.
You can use temporary screws to add layers of plywood from inside.
Transom lamination
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:28 pm
by OllieK
I'm confused
Page 2 of my build notes says
"The transom is made of several layers of marine plywood or better, from a sheet of hi density transom foam. The foam core is 2" thick, with fiberglass, we expect a final thickness of approx 2 3/4". Plywood transoms are made of 3 layers of 1/2" quality ply like Meranti BS 1088. If lass expensive marine fir is used, add one layer for a total of 4 layers of 1/2" ply."
The nesting diagram shows 3 sheets.
Where has the number 5 come from?
Are there some suplimentary notes I am missing?
Ollie
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:36 pm
by Doc_Dyer
it should show 2 clamping boards which are not full transom pieces just the top parts... are there clamping boards on the nesting picture?
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:54 pm
by OllieK
Doc_Dyer wrote:it should show 2 clamping boards which are not full transom pieces just the top parts... are there clamping boards on the nesting picture?
No! 6mm ply list - upper side and lowerside panels and deck pieces. 13mm Divinycell list - deck, cabin roof, cabin sides, cabin front. 10mm ply lists bottom and chine step. 13mm ply list - transom x 3, frames A through I, MW side x 2, stringers, sole, no mention of clamping boards.
Ollie
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:09 pm
by jacquesmm
The CS25 and CX25 are different.
I was reading the CS25 notes and checked those plans.
The nesting shows 3 pieces for the full transom and 2 for the clamping, total 5.
For the CX25, you are correct. I specified less. The transom is made from 3 layers (or 4 as an option) but the CX25 is always a full transom version. It has a closed transom with the extra full bulkhead in front of it and with the vertical framing that we show.
Build as I show, that is sufficient.
If you build a CS25 with a motorwell you need the 5 layers: 3 plus 2 for the clamping board.
If you build the CS25 closed transom with the additional frame I and the raised ends of the stringers exactly as shown on B248/2_CT, you can skip the extra 2 layers despite what is in the notes.
Peter, let's avoid the extra work and just do a good fiberglass job on that 3 layer transom and use the raised stringers as we show on that drawing.
Bond deck and sole to transom and bulkhead and you will be fine.
Several boats are running with the CX25 transom.
I probably left the extra layers in the CS25 because there was enough plywood leftover. Two extra layers will not hurt but since you already built it with 3, leave it as it is.
Sorry for the confusion.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:18 pm
by OllieK
jacquesmm wrote:Several boats are running with the CX25 transom.
I probably left the extra layers in the CS25 because there was enough plywood leftover. Two extra layers will not hurt but since you already built it with 3, leave it as it is.
Sorry for the confusion.
No worries, this is why I love this forum and build method, problems solved as fast as they crop up.
Ollie
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:36 pm
by peter-curacao
jacquesmm wrote:
Peter, let's avoid the extra work and just do a good fiberglass job on that 3 layer transom and use the raised stringers as we show on that drawing.
Bond deck and sole to transom and bulkhead and you will be fine.
Several boats are running with the CX25 transom.
I probably left the extra layers in the CS25 because there was enough plywood leftover. Two extra layers will not hurt but since you already built it with 3, leave it as it is.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jeez look here!!
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=165146#165146 now for sure I can hang two 150 hp Evinrudes etech 300HP total
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:04 pm
by peter-curacao
This I don't understand
jacquesmm wrote:I probably left the extra layers in the CS25 because there was enough plywood leftover.
2 full sheets of ply is leftover? I had to buy those at a total of US$ 267,77 I don’t exactly call that a leftover do you?
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:04 pm
by Murry
Peter, I think Jacques was refering to enough left over for a clamping board, wich isn't a full transom.
I'm sure he'll respond tomorrow.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:13 pm
by peter-curacao
Murry wrote:Peter, I think Jacques was refering to enough left over for a clamping board, wich isn't a full transom.
I'm sure he'll respond tomorrow.
jacquesmm wrote:The nesting drawing shows 3+2 layers.
For a full transom, you use the same 5 layers but do not cut the last 2 down to the clamping board level.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:02 am
by jacquesmm
On the CS25 nesting, we show the 2 clamping board pieces. If we don't use them, the plywood is wasted.
We are talking about 2 different plans here: the CS25 and the CX25. The nesting is different, that is why you don't see them.
The CX25 was designed from the start with a closed transom.
The CS25 was designed with a motorwell and the closed transom is an option.
To show the CX25 transom on the CS25 would have required complicated options like shorter stringers. I kept it simple and in the closed transom version of the CS25, I kept the 2 clamping board layers.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:09 pm
by peter-curacao
So some free epoxy is out of the question?
Just kidding I’m still a Dutchman
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:19 pm
by jacquesmm
There is no mistake here, just a difference between two designs.
I will mention that point in the building notes of the CS25.
