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Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:25 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacquesmm,
I got the epoxy kit in about a week or so back but I have not been able to get started until now. I have been in great pain with my shoulder. The packing list shows 1.5 gallons of EZ fillet, I receive a 1 gallon kit. If this is sufficient that's fine, if not please ship the balance when you can.
One additional note: Double bag the graphite powder for shipping!!! Mine developed a small hole in the bag and it was a heck of a mess! LOL :lol:

As I'm unfamiliar with some of the products in the kit I have to ask these questions:

1. Am I supposed to use the GelMagic adhesive for Transom lay up? If not, do I use the Silvertip epoxy without any filler?

2. Is the Ez Fillet used in place of wood flour for making fillets by itself or do I mix it with ST epoxy??

3. Is the Quickfair used on it's own or is it mixed with ST to make a fairing compound?

4. Is the 4" wide 9oz. fiberglass tape or the 6" biaxial 12 oz. used for making long panels?

Thank You for patience, I'm not a boat builder yet, but I plan to be!!
God Bless You,
Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:30 pm
by Dougster
I'll chime in for now;

1. Am I supposed to use the GelMagic adhesive for Transom lay up? If not, do I use the Silvertip epoxy without any filler?

GelMagic is a stand alone product, and works best as a glue. Yes for the transom. Do not mix ST with it. ST is the "champagne" of epoxy resin, best used for wetting out glass. You may consider ordering a bit of Marinepoxy for general purpose use. You can mix epoxy in the 2:1 ratio and add wood flour to get a thicker consistency. A little thick makes glue, thicker makes fillets.

2. Is the Ez Fillet used in place of wood flour for making fillets by itself or do I mix it with ST epoxy??

Same answer as 1. EZ Fillet is very nice and best used exclusively for fillets. Again, you can make your own with general purpose epoxy (marinepoxy) and wood flour, but start wih the EZ stuff to see what you're looking for.

3. Is the Quickfair used on it's own or is it mixed with ST to make a fairing compound?

Same answer. Quickfair is lovely stuff, pricey, and a stand alone fairing compound. As in the above, you can make your own compound, but instead of woodflour you buy a fairing powder at Bateau to blend with general purpose resin.

It will become more clear as you use the products.

Hopin' that helps Dougster

4. Is the 4" wide 9oz. fiberglass tape or the 6" biaxial 12 oz. used for making long panels?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:00 am
by Eric1
Thank you Dougster!! Big Help!!! :D :D :D

Does anyone know if Jacques is ok? I hav not seen him on the forum in a while. Just concerned for him.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:48 am
by terrulian
Eric,
I think what a lot of builders do with Quick Fair is start with a cheaper blend mentioned by Dougster for fairing, typically epoxy mixed with microballoons and silica (which is an additive that helps control sag). You can mix these to a thickness appropriate for the job. This is messier and takes longer to cure but does the job. Then after a round or two of filling and sanding, switch to Quick Fair for final fairing. It really does work better but is a bit pricey to use for all the fairing on the boat.

PS sorry about the shoulder pain!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:54 pm
by Eric1
Thanks terrulian! :)

Jacques , I found the EZ Fillet.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:58 pm
by kcinnick
Jacques has open heart surgery a couple days ago, there are a few threads on it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:23 pm
by Eric1
Thanks for letting me know,
I will have him in my prayers.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am
by mmachonis
Eric,

My name is Mark Machonis. I am about to start building the C21 also. I do not have any boat building experience. I have read several boat building books prior to embarking on this project. I just received my kit and will be ordering the Silver Tip Epoxy kit this week. I have a few things to get done around my house before I get started. I am hoping for next Friday. I was wondering if we could keep in contact directly to discuss our progress and our challenges. My email address is mmachonis@comcast.net.

Mark

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:45 am
by mmachonis
Hey Eric,

I had an idea to build my center console first to get familiar with the Epoxy Systems and the Paint System before I start the main Hull Structure.

Mark

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:59 pm
by PrometheusNL
Whenever i start trying something new like epoxy glue or filleting or even a new tool i bought. I test it out on a couple of scraps of wood and see how it behaves.

Why not make a wood box with filets fiberglass or something else you wish to make.

I find that the time spent experimenting the tool or technique will benifit me more over the duration of the build then if i started right away and ran into problems and got stuck on stupid stuff.

Now i'm somebody that likes to know what they are doing before ever doing it so i went a bit overboard i built a scale model of my fl12 just for fun :)

Glad Jaques din't charge me the extra build on the boat plans ;)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:12 pm
by Fuzz
Building something for a test is a great idea! I much prefer to run outboards in a tank rather than a hose so I built a tank on casters for that use. Got to learn about epoxy and got the tank I wanted out of the deal.
Fuzz

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:54 pm
by Eric1
Ok Fellas,

I got the first backing board glued to transom. That Gelmagic is thick as camel snot!! :lol:
Hardest thing I had to figure out was how much to mix. I mixed a small batch (6ozs.) then I could get an idea of how much to bond both surfaces. I only layed up the first backing board as I want to see how it cures. Being a machine shop owner I have plenty of weights around the shop in the form of stainless steel drops. I put about 450 pounds on the lay up that should be good enough.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:39 pm
by Matt Gent
450lbs is a lot! You'll see lots of pictures around here with a few epoxy jugs or paint cans on top of a laminate.

You just need enough to get even pressure across the surface, doesn't need a huge clamping force. With lots of force you can risk squeezing out some of your epoxy at the highly loaded spots.

I also like to have something to locate the boards relative to each other - either an edge to index on, or even better a couple of small dowels. I've had a couple sheets try to slip around as they cure, only takes a slight angle to make it slide.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:32 pm
by jacquesmm
Matt is correct. Epoxy is gap filling. Do not squeeze all the glue out with so much pressure. The bond will not be as string if you squeeze the glue out.
Most of our pictures show pressure applied with the weight of a couple of CBS blocks or paint cans.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:04 pm
by Eric1
Well Crap. It's a done deal at this point. I use less pressure on the stringers. There was not a lot of glue that was squeezed out, hopefully I'm ok. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:39 pm
by Eric1
Well had a major goof today. I cut the wrong Motor well brackets. I planned on a single motor and cut the brackets for the twin motor set up.

So I have fiberglassed the waste back to the top of the cut piece. I'll only need about 3 inches at the top of the bracket to make the correction. I believe this will be fine for two reasons: First the thrust vector of the outboard will not be directed at the very top of the transom and second, I plan on full transom so this surface will be boxed in.

Word of advise, Never cut anything without a clear mind. I'd left the hospital to check on my Father, he had quadruple bypass last Sunday and recovery is going tough on him. I had hoped to escape life and cut some plywood today. Not the best of ideas. :cry: [-o<

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:47 pm
by Steven
Hope your dad recovers well. Don't sweat the goofs. We all make them. I cut the stern end of my bottom panels backwards. You can see the wedge I glued back on. :)

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:59 pm
by Eric1
So much Fun! HAHAHAAA

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:00 am
by Eric1
Transom Lay up!

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:07 am
by Eric1
Testing another route

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:44 pm
by Steven
Is that your strongback? Make sure it is screwed/bolted together firmly. You might want to add some support to keep it from racking. I don't have a great picture, but you can make out the 2x4 diagonal I attached to the bottom.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:30 pm
by Eric1
I plan to reinforce as I go. It's pretty stable as it is, I used OSB in the corners and joints to stiffen it. Made a world of difference. Thanks for the Tip!! :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:47 pm
by Steven
I didn't make out those osb triangles. Those should be good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:33 am
by Eric1
I still need an answer on using the 4" for joining long and stringers panels.
I read through the notes and the lamination schedule but I'm not finding the answer.
I made some progress yesterday. I cut and mounted the motorwell sides to the transom and made the bow mold.
I hope to get all the forms on the strongback this week.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:30 pm
by jacquesmm
Eric1 wrote:I still need an answer on using the 4" for joining long and stringers panels.
.
What is the question? Stringers do not require any butt block or anything to join the two layers. The seams are offset, you just glue the two layers together.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:58 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Jacques, I assumed one needed to add a strip of glass on the seam.
Is the 4" inch tape correct to use use on frame "G" and the side/bottom panels?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:01 pm
by jacquesmm
I don't use any tape over the puzzle joints.
The joints will be covered by a good number of fiberglass later.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:11 pm
by Eric1
I don't have a pre cut kit. I'm cutting these out myself. I will simply have butt joints.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:02 pm
by jacquesmm
Sorry, there is a C21 kit builder that is posting regularly.

For you, same thing for the stringers: the seams are offset and no need for a fiberglass splice BUT for the hull panels, you should use a splice. You need a fiberglass splice. I may mention it in the notes but if I don't, one layer of biaxial tape each side. On the outside, grind the plywood down a little bit to reduce the need for fairing.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:02 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I finally got all the frames in place and I'm ready to cut out the hull. I had to put the build on hold for a number of reasons, including my 76 year old Dad have emergency quadruple bypass. On DWG# E226/7 it shows the layout for these pieces. The sides are clear to me but not the bottom panel. Are the curves on the bottom spaced at 2' like the sides or are they all spaced like the bow end (last section) at 1'-11 1/2". Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:22 am
by jacquesmm
Yes, every 24".
There is a part that is a straight line, it is marked straight but after that, we measure every 24".

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:27 am
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

Thank you for the answers. :) I have another. When I apply the biax cloth to the hull, do I wrap along the length or from side to side? I don't want to mis use the cloth. I'm thinking along the length would be easier to fair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:24 am
by jacquesmm
Lengthwise.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:45 pm
by Eric1
Well today I was able to put the bottom on the jig. I zip tied at 1,3,6,9 and 12 feet just to keep the panel loosely in place. It looks pretty good but when I tried to push the bow together the panel want to jump over each other between the last frame and bow mold.
I looked in the gallery at Stefan's C21 build. It looks like he used copper wire about every 4 inches. I also noticed his bow mold appears to be a good bit higher than mine.
First thing tomorrow I am checking the height on bow mold. I'm sure I have it set 1/2" below baseline at the center. Once I confirm it's correct, I plan to add zip ties every 4 inches.
All I know is something is not right, this is my plan to try to find out what's off.

Signed,

Determined Old Fart

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:10 am
by jacquesmm
For the bow mold, don't set it up with the baseline. Instead, line it up at the keel. It must be flush with the last mold.
Which type of wood do you use?
If necessary, you cut a slice off where the panels interfere. Often, 1/2" is all what it takes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:16 pm
by Eric1
Ok, I'm confused as a cross eyed rooster. I'm not understanding where I should have bow mold vertically.
May I ask you to draw a picture for me?
I double checked my mold spacing and it is correct and I was at 1/2" below baseline on the bow mold. I used the base line to level all the other molds , so I assumed this was correct from the drawing that shows the mold dimensions.

To answer your question, I have used Okoume 1088. I had thought trimming the panel may be needed as when I layed these out the short curve was a bit difficult so they may be off a little.

Can you tell I've never built a boat? :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:29 am
by Eric1
Any luck with the missing posts on this thread?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:33 am
by jacquesmm
I am working on it as fast as I can. I guess it will take me a full day, I have to go through them one at a time.
Feel free to post the same question, I will answer.
I remember that you had flipped the panel: keel side to chine side but there was also a question about trimming.
What is that you want to trim?
With the panel in the correct position, it should match now.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:07 am
by Eric1
There is the rub, I had the keel side correct.

A couple of things I've noticed: When I have brought the panel together to form the bow I noted both outside edges do not touch the edge of frame "B" and the panel are above the inside stringers about 1"-1 1/2".

Right now the plan is to mount a ledger board at centerline from frame "B" to frame "A".
Then pull each bottom panel to the bow mold one at a time. First pressing the panel down to the edge of frame "B" and zip tiying it in place. Continue to form panel down to inside stringer and zip tie it in place within a 1/4" of touching stringer.
Finally bring panel down to bow mold and zip tie it in place.
Once in place I will get underneath the panel and mark the centerline onto the panel. Then I plan to trim off the edge outside of the marked line.

There is so much stress in the plywood right now I doubt filled epoxy is going to hold it together when I remove the zip ties.
I am considering using some 6oz plain weave cloth to make 2" wide x 6" long reinforcing strips to be added after the fillede epoxy is in place.

Plan B is not a great idea. Try to use small screws (10-32) and large flat washers above and small washers below the panels to keep the plywood from jumping over each other.

All that said, I'm stepping away from this until this weekend I'm stressed and I need a break. Wish I had a Mentor to help me at this point.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:58 am
by jacquesmm
Can you please post pictures?
If you can't post pictures, email them to me at
support@e-boat.net

We can try to discuss it without pictures but that will be very difficult.

Try this first:
- are all you stitches loose? I mean loose with about 1" play?
- are you working on the bottom panel only or on the bottom and side panels at the same time?
- did you go to our gallery and searched with the word C21? I found many pictures of the building including this one:
Image
and that one:
Image
and this:
Image

That is a C21 and that is how your panels should look.
Look for the album named
Stefans C21 Album

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:01 am
by jacquesmm
Do not look at everything at the same time, do not worry about the stringers or a gap between panels and frames.
Focus on getting the panels together and form a fair shape.
The bow will want to pull away from the bow mold, that is why we have a bow mold: to pull the panels back closer to the mold but only after everything is fair and smooth.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:48 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

Yes I have reviewed Stephan's C21 photos.
I have been trying to fit/form only the bottom panels, which I had gaped with a small nail.
I will reset the panels with an inch of play.

I shall go ahead and make the side panels, I thought I had to get the bottom panels together then add the sides.

I sent a test email an photo to you.
Thank You Sir

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:38 pm
by jacquesmm
I got the test pictures but it does not show the bow. Keep sending pics, let me see the bow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:37 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I finally had a few minutes to work on my issues with the bottom panels. I decided before I cut away any material I would re measure everything. I found the bow mold and frame "A" was off center by 3/8". That made a big difference in the keel issues. I will still have to cut some of the bottom panels away from keel edge, but it will be about a 1/4" or so.
Having found and corrected the issue, I'm comfortable moving forward. Next, I will cut the sides out and make the long boards. Hope to have more time for this project next week.

Eric :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:54 pm
by jacquesmm
Thanks for the updates.
To have the frames off by 3/8 explains it.
I am glad you discovered it before trimming the panels.
Still, to trim a little bit is perfectly OK, a small gap along the keel and bow is perfectly fine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:04 pm
by jacquesmm
Image

Problem solved. :D
It looks very nice and fair now.
And no plywood wasted.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:47 am
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I'm going to layout the side panels today. I just want to confirm I'm drawing my points correctly. On Dwg#E226/7 look at the lower panel, at the 8 foot point you show two points. The first is 3/8" and the second is 2'2".
The 2'2" is measured from the edge of the plywood correct?
In other words, I do not measure it from the 3/8" mark (3/8" + 2'2").

I just want to confirm I doing this so I don't run into alignment issues with the side panels.

Thank You again for your help.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:20 pm
by Eric1
Jacques, The question must stand. Upon laying out the side panels it appears these dimensions are incremental.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:41 pm
by jacquesmm
They are incremental.
The drafting on that plan dates from 25 years ago. Right now, I show everything always from the same baseline but here the dimensions are incremental.
You can see that by looking at other dimensions a little further to the left: the arrows clearly point to one side first then to the next one.
Look at the one starting with 3-1/2" followed by a 2' 2". That is how the dimensions are set.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:20 pm
by Eric1
Ok, That's what I thought. Thanks for the quick reply!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 7:15 am
by Eric1
Just a quick update, I got the first side panel hung and it lined up perfectly! The second on is curing. I decided to take a break from work and building and hit the trout stream. I had two on line line briefly, they spit the hooks. I did manage to catch a smallmouth, a knottyhead, two trees and a cable I didn't see. My fishing buddy and I have seen over dozen snakes, He thinks they are all copper heads but they are just banded water snakes. Still tons of fun watching his reaction!!!! Y'all have a blessed weekend.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:49 am
by Eric1
Jacques,

Is it alright to Epoxy and appy the 6" biaxial tape to the keel and chine seams before I hang and position the 2 upper side panels?
The reason I ask is It will be much easier for me to have access to the under side of the plywood. Not much fun having bad knees.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:22 pm
by jacquesmm
Don't put anything on the inside until you flip the hull, only the outside.
If you are talking about the outside layer, yes, no problem.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:19 pm
by Eric1
Yes just the outside, Thank you.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 2:31 pm
by Eric1
Jacques,

Just to make certain, I use the EZ Fillet to bond the bottom and side panels to the Transom, correct?
Also regarding the Transom bond, I zip tie these panels as tight as possible (flush)?

I'm assuming I wait to fill the gap form by the transom and bottom panel.

I'm going back through my tie points and adding a small sectio of PVC pipe to keep the panels in position. That is a neat trick I saw on the forum.


Thank in advance,

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 2:51 pm
by jacquesmm
Eric1 wrote:Jacques,

Just to make certain, I use the EZ Fillet to bond the bottom and side panels to the Transom, correct?
Yes, you build a fillet with the EZ Fillet and follow with fiberglass tape.

Also regarding the Transom bond, I zip tie these panels as tight as possible (flush)?
I screw the sides and bottom to the transom with temporary drywall screws but not too tight, I don't want a flat there. You can zip tie too then use EZ fillet to fill the gap.

I'm assuming I wait to fill the gap form by the transom and bottom panel.

I'm going back through my tie points and adding a small sectio of PVC pipe to keep the panels in position. That is a neat trick I saw on the forum.


Thank in advance,

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:43 pm
by Eric1
Remind me to buy you a nice dinner next time
I'm in Florida. Your help is invaluable!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 8:13 pm
by Eric1
Jacques,

I'm moving right along with the EZ Fillet. That is some amazing stuff! Should I use this where the side panels overlap?
I may need to order more. I'm not sure I'll have enough pot life to bond the side panels at one time. I think I should order another gallon epoxy kit and some wood flour. What say you?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:22 am
by jacquesmm
Use real glue between the side panels: GelMagic.
Pot life may be short but once it is spread over a large area, the gel time increases significantly.
If your pot life is 8 minutes, once it is spread (with a notched trowel), it increases easily to 30 minutes.

Another tip is to put the Gelmagic components in the refrigerator before use. More difficult to mix but much longer pot life.
And for that stage, get a helper.
Or, if you haven't assembled the long panels, install one at a time but do a dry run first for alignement and mark with a pencil.

Some builders use more resin that others. If you need more, order it on time, don;t get stopped waiting for materials.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:04 pm
by Eric1
I am getting close to applying the biaxial tape. I the keel line ready to sand and and then I'll have to mount the last side panels. waiting on more Gel Magic to arrive for that. I was going to sand the keel line today but I'm tired from a long week. Plan on resting this weekend and starting back Monday. I can't say enough how helpful Jacques has been with this build. I am learning a lot along the way and I am enjoying it very much. Maybe I'm a bit crazy but I am feeling rather proud of my boat. I don't even have a finished hull and I am getting a lot of compliments!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:38 am
by jacquesmm
Nothing wrong with being proud of your work.
You wouldn't believe how many builders admit that after a day of work on the boat, they sit there admiring their job. I have done it many times.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:21 pm
by Eric1
I got the upper side panels on today! I used 16oz. per panel of Gel Magic.
I am Super pleased with the form and lines the boat has. I sent Jacques photos and I'm hoping he can find time to post them here for everyone to enjoy. That's all for today, I have to prepare for an awards ceremony for my eldest daughter. She is graduating high school with honors!!! Her plans are to attend culinary arts school to become a Pastry Chef.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:47 pm
by jacquesmm
Oooh, a pastry chef . . .
That can be great career plus, you can eat all her homework.
I got the pictures and will post them tomorrow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:33 am
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I am ready to apply the fiberglass tape! This has brought me to another question. As I tape the transom and bow there is a square corner created by the over lap of the plywood trim line. Do I cut the tape at those corners or should I build that area with the EZ Fillet? I'm concerned because fiberglass never likes to form on a square corner, well maybe 4oz, but I can't see the 12oz doing it!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:40 am
by jacquesmm
Round all edges before applying the glass. A radius of 3/8" should be fine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:04 pm
by Eric1
I applied the first tape layer to transom today. I uploaded images to gallery (Eric's C21).

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:19 pm
by Eric1
Posted a few more photos today. Today i learned what planking is! Being a short man, I'm standing on a table to reach the keel. If you look at photo #15 on the right side of photo you will see where I cleaned up the epoxy spill. The table pushed out from under my feet and I was left with my belly being the only thing in contact with the boat!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

No more today, I have my daughter's high school graduation to prepare for tonight. :D 8) :D
Hope you enjoy the photos.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:50 am
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I will start laminating the transom today. Should I overlap the transom with cloth when I lay up? Also should I overlap when I laminate the bottom?

Thanks Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:44 am
by jacquesmm
Yes, overlap everywhere, over all seams.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:42 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I over lapped the first layer by 5 inches. I plan to go 6" on the next layer. That put me at 109" of 52" cloth. I used 4 each 12 ounce batches and 1 batch at 3 oz. Doe that sound about right to you? I posted a photo in my gallery.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:45 pm
by jacquesmm
Make the next overlaps smaller. As long as the edges are not on top of each other you will be fine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:56 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Jacques,
I'll drop them back to 3".


Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:34 pm
by Eric1
Just finished the second layer of glass on Transom. It was 103" x 52, used 48 oz of mixed epoxy. It was much more difficult than yesterday, Temp. was 87 degrees inside. Epoxy would go to a thickened state (like honey in about 10 minutes), therefore fabric didn't wet out as easily. Batch size was 12 oz. Over all I'm happy with the progress.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:52 pm
by jacquesmm
Mix smaller batches and/or, store your epoxy in AC or in a fridge.
Once it begins to gel, you can't use it anymore.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:01 pm
by Eric1
It never got to a gel state, but it was thicker than yesterday. As warmer day are going to be the norm for a while i will use the fridge trick. Plus I'll do my glass work in the morning rather than after lunch. I'm concerned about glassing the bottom, The transom layers take me about 1.5 hours and that is not 3 yards of glass!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:34 am
by topwater
When you do the bottom have somebody mix the epoxy while you spread it. Dump it on the hull
and use a spreader to wet out the glass, the faster you get it out of the mixing cup the more
working time you will have.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:54 pm
by Eric1
topwater wrote:When you do the bottom have somebody mix the epoxy while you spread it. Dump it on the hull
and use a spreader to wet out the glass, the faster you get it out of the mixing cup the more
working time you will have.
Thanks for the tip Topwater!

This is my plan, I'll premeasure epoxy and have it ready for my helper to mix. I plan on moving fast on the bottom! I'm going to make a couple of drawings for the glass layup to see what Jacques recommends. The fabric is running right at 52" so I want to plan the overlaps carefully.

I completed the third and final layer on the transom this morning. It was 101" x 52", used 46.5 oz's of epoxy. Wetted out much better today, Temperature was 78 when I started the layup. So far I wasted 4 oz's of epoxy doing the tape and three layers on transom, I'm doing ok with it I think. Truth is, Without pulling a vacuum I can't do much better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:57 pm
by Eric1
I finished the sanding prep for glassing the hull today, which has me thinking of what's ahead. I'm 99% sure of how to approach the use of the biaxial cloth. Using the parameters from the layup schedule I can really only do it one way. Starting at keel maintain a six inch overlap. From keel to chine edge at transom the will produce a 3" overlap that I can progress to 6 inches. This brings me to my first question: Would I be better off maintaining the three inch overlap at chine?

Also, I'm planing a third bottom layer so I want to keep shifting the overlap from trim edge/chine layer with keel/chine layer to make fairing easier. I'm only talking an inch or so when I say shifting the overlap.Is this a good idea or not?

How much do you builder's overlap the bottom layers at the transom?

Final question on this part of the build: With the understanding I can not possibly be ready for the second/third layer within 24 hours from the previous must I sand in between layers? I did this on the transom lay up, only enough to knock off the stiching in the fabric, I stopped when I started to expose the bias in the cloth. This is a crap load of surface and it is tough on older shoulders! :P

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:00 am
by jacquesmm
Try to have a at least a 3" overlap, 6 is better. You can also add layer form leftover fabric.

If you can't get another layer wet on wet, you can do it the next day without sanding as long as the surface is smooth.
If more than 2 days between layers, give ti a light sanding.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:24 pm
by Eric1
Hi Jacques,

I sent you an email. i also added those photos to my gallery.


Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:12 pm
by jacquesmm
If you want a fast reply, please post here.
I"ll get to the office tomorrow and will check your email.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:07 pm
by Eric1
It can wait Jacques. I am running machines this week.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:24 am
by jacquesmm
OK, I looked at your email. It is fine. There is no need to worry about one overlap being 4" and the next one 5". One or 2 " do not matter as long as the edges are offset. This does not require machine shop precision.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:13 pm
by Eric1
Well Friends, I got the first layer on the bottom today. Started at 10:20 finished at 1:30, Temp was 71 degrees at start 75 at finish. I posted a couple of pictures in the gallery under "Eric's C21". I'm a bit tired but I got it done, going to the house to relax. Y'all have a great weekend and God Bless.

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:55 pm
by jacquesmm
Good progress.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:38 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Sir!

I plan on getting second side done in the morning. It's brutally HOT here, 97 outside. Afternoon temps in the shop are hitting 89. We have one of the 10 ton AC on the fritz.

Posted a photo of second side glass in place. The weights are there just for tonight. there was a crease in the fabric I'm trying to flatten.

I have a question on the roll of glass cloth in the photos. I'll be in touch in the morning. If it was shipped in error and I was not charged I'll return it to you guys.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:19 pm
by Jeff
Eric, I will call you not later than 8:15 in the morning!! Pretty warm down here as well!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:25 am
by bateau-webmaster
Eric, testing to see if I can post your gallery pictures here: Image
It appears to be working for me. If you copy/paste the image URL (http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... AG0066.jpg) then highlight the whole thing and click the "Img" button above the text box in your post it should work perfectly.

If it gives you an error message, please let us know what it says.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:50 am
by Eric1
Thank You!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:52 am
by jacquesmm
The kit contains some 6 oz. woven fabric to fiberglass the sole and the console. See the kit contents listed here:
http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=C21_E
Do not use it on the hull. As specified on the plans, the hull is glassed with the biaxial fabric.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:57 am
by Eric1
Thank you Jacques. I completely missed that. I assumed that it was for sole, heck I may have even read it but I could not remember it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:01 am
by Eric1
Webmaster,


Image test...

This was reply:
It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:01 am
by jacquesmm
Eric1 wrote:Thank you Jacques. I completely missed that. I assumed that it was for sole, heck I may have even read it but I could not remember it.
There are options and the kits are based on what most people build and almost every builder likes to cover the sole and console with fiberglass.
There is more to say about that kit: the plans specify to fiberglass the bottom outside and inside with biaxial but not all the way up to the sheer. many builder like to go all the way up to the sheer on the outside. It is not necessary for strength but it protects the plywood when going alongside a dock for example. The kit does not include enough glass or epoxy for that option.
Last, for the biaxial, we assume that the builder will use letfovers from the outside glass but not everybody likes to do it that way. You"ll see when you get there. That biaxial is inexpensive, if you decide to fiberglass the complete outside, order some more.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:53 pm
by Eric1
Thanks for the extra information Jacques. I saw that the biaxial stops at trim line. I have some 8 oz plain weave cloth I plan to use above that. I also have 4 gallons of a 3 to 1 epoxy I plan to use in that area. I'm running a test with the Silvertip and the Aeropoxy to see if they will crosslink and bond. As the name suggests Aeropoxy is used for aviation airframes and while it is a top quality product I want to be sure the two are compatible. I'll do a mechanical sheer test after the samples cure for a week.

I had help this morning so things went much smoother with this layer. :D :D :D

I was planning on purchasing long boards from FlexiCat for the fairing process but the US distributor is out of stock and their website states the don't know when they will be. I plan to design my own to that purpose, after all I am a machinist! LOL
If I'm satisfied with the result I will forward a sample for your review. Perhaps you can stock them to help other builders.

Be wishes for a great and hopefully cooler weekend,

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:27 pm
by jacquesmm
We sell the flexboards but it is easy to make one.

For the Aeromarine, be careful. Don't get fooled by the name, it almost as good as our MarinEpoxy but not as good as our Silver Tip. I would limit the use of it above the waterline.
It will NOT crosslink with Silver Tip.
You can use different epoxies on a project but you MUST wait for a full cure then sand and clean before applying another resin.
Full cure means one week. If you don't, you may inhibit the full cure of the previous resin.
Plus, Silver Tip will post cure in the sun but you"ll loose that advantage if there is another resin on top.
I would keep the Aeromarine for the console or covering the decks but not use it for the hull.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:49 pm
by Eric1
AeroMarine is different than what I have but I can wait a week For Silvertip to cure out.


I'll post a photo of the Flexicat fairing board I'm talking about. It's not the same as what you have.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:37 pm
by Eric1
Image


Side 2 finished! Finally got photo to load to Forum!!!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:42 pm
by Jeff
Looks good Eric!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:46 pm
by Eric1
Thank You GAJeff!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:53 pm
by Eric1
I have first side ready for epoxy but temp is to warm. This is as far as i can go this weekend.
Happy Father's Day to everyone.


Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:10 am
by Eric1
I got the First side laid up this morning. 7 Yards of Cloth, 66 ounces of epoxy. I'll check to see if I'm tack free before I go home. If so, I will get the fabric for side two on the hull so it can relax overnight.


Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:52 pm
by Eric1
I have fabric in place on side 2. Just too hot to epoxy today, we'll see what the morning brings. :D :D :D

It's incredible to see this coming together!!

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:08 am
by Eric1
Side two is finished. Now I'll take a break and do it all over again!

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:37 am
by Eric1
Jacques, Cracker Larry and ant other experienced builders.

What is the best choice of wood for lifting strakes and spray rail?

What is the best product for securing these to the hull?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:05 pm
by cape man
Pine is fine, especially if you are going to glass it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:27 pm
by Jeff
Eric, your boat is really looking good!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:41 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Jeff! Being my first boat I have nothing to compare it too. I feel like I'm on the right track and thus far I'm enjoying everything about the build. I enjoy learning my way through a project and making this boat is very satisfying. How's this for a kick in the pants...I've been sharing photos on my Facebook page and one of my friends want me to sell him a boat! LOL!!!

I told him I would have to finish this one first. If I do decide to build him a boat,I'll have him buy a set of plans and we'll go from there.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:39 am
by Jeff
Eric, Glad the experience is a positive one for you!! Most of our Forum members would agree!! Keep sending me pictures!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:28 pm
by Eric1
Spent the morning prep. sanding for the next layer. It was only about four hours of work.


Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:30 pm
by Eric1
Another picture after sanding. I'm posting these with the hope they will help another builder along the way.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:32 pm
by Eric1
Last one today..
I'm sanding these overlaps a little heavier. Just to the point they no longer catch my fingernail. I'm not sure if this has to be done but I believe this will make the fairing process go smoother.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:21 pm
by Eric1
I started the second layer today. Got another 6 yards of fabric layed up. Fabric seemed to take longer to wet out, temp was good at 73 degrees, maybe the humidity played a part. It's been very high the last several days. We're actually in a thunderstorm as I write this.

Here is a picture of the layup:

Image


I've been planning to use a Yamaha 115 or 150 for power on this boat. I looked for dealers on the net and was going to have to drive 62 miles west or 64 mile north east. Decided yesterday to go for a ride and found the local mercury dealer has picked up Yamaha!!! He's 4 miles away!!!!!!! How's that for Providence?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:47 pm
by TomW1
I would go with the 150 on the C21. A 115 on a C19 hit a top end in the low 40's. The study plans state that a 125 will push her to 37mph, thus my recommending the 150. Good deal on finding the local Yamaha dealer so close. Take a look at the new VMAX SHO's, they are supposed to be lighter and more efficient than other motors.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:06 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote:I would go with the 150 on the C21. A 115 on a C19 hit a top end in the low 40's. The study plans state that a 125 will push her to 37mph, thus my recommending the 150. Good deal on finding the local Yamaha dealer so close. Take a look at the new VMAX SHO's, they are supposed to be lighter and more efficient than other motors.
Thanks TomW1, That input helps. I was thinking a four stroke though, nothing written in stone.
Last boat had twin Suzuki four strokes, I liked the quiet running.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:07 pm
by terrulian
Very clean work. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:09 pm
by Eric1
terrulian wrote:Very clean work. 8)
Thank You Sir! There are a lot of runs the picture don't show. They sand off pretty quickly. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:25 pm
by Eric1
This was 7:30 this morning, prepped 6 yards plus 5" for second bottom layer, side2.
After trimming with scissors, I lightly sweep the edges with a whisk broom. Then any of the stitching that has loosened I burn off with a bic lighter. This gives a much cleaner finish.

Image


5" overlap at Transom, corner tacked down with a Extremely light mist of 3M #77 spray adhesive:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:39 pm
by Eric1
This is about one third into layup, fabric is over saturated in this picture. My technique is to completely wet out a section about my arm span. Then move forward wet out first pour on next section, while its soaking in I go back to previous section and pull excess epoxy forward with scraper. I'll try to shoot a video when I layup the next layer. 8)

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:53 pm
by Eric1
These pictures show second bottom layer, side two complete. Finish time was 11:45, temp. had climbed to 82 degrees.
I used 128 ounces of epoxy this time. Fabric wetted out better today, I'm pretty sure humidity was the culprit on the last section I did. It was lower today and things went much smoother.

Image

Shot of transom:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:45 pm
by Jeff
Great detail and pictures!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:49 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:01 am
by Eric1
Jacques, Can you tell me how long the lifting strakes are suppose to be? I know I am a way from needing them but I would like to get the lumber. From what I see in the build notes I would have 2 at 100" and 2 at 150". Is this correct?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:22 pm
by Eric1
I'm going to order some 24 oz. foam 1" x 1" triangles for the lifting strakes.
These only cost $5.50 per 4' section, so the risk is minimal.
I had been trying to figure out a way to avoid having to rip 1" x 1" lumber at a 45 degree cut.
The plan is to wet it out and cover it with fiberglass tape, couple of layers of 6 oz.
If I like the them I'll use same material for the spray rail.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:01 pm
by jacquesmm
Sorry for the delayed reply, I was out of the country and came back last night.

Yes, the foam triangles are good solution. You could make them bigger than 1" but 1" will work.
They are optional. They will help a little bit with lift at high speed, also deflects sprays a little bit.
In production boats, they also supplement the stiffness of the fiberglass bottom but that is not required here.

For the length, look at your developed panels drawing.
The bottom is about 20' long = each strake will be max. 20'.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:19 pm
by Eric1
Glad for your return, I hope you had an enjoyable trip. I just increased my order for a total of 80 feet of triangular foam. :)
Thank you for getting back to me on this.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:37 pm
by Eric1
Here is where I am today:
This is sanded and ready for the second side layer to go on. A little over fours hours of prep for the entire hull.

Image

This shows how I'm sanding the overlapped edges. You can also see where the epoxy had ran. I use a plastic wiper about 20 minutes after the last epoxy goes on, but I still sand away the excess epoxy. I believe this creates a stronger layup.

Image

Lastly, I'm finding a few small blemishes here and there. These spots are hard and do not deflect under my thumbnail when I apply pressure. I'm guessing these are from sweat dripping off my face as I wet the surface with epoxy. I hope this is no cause for concern.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:47 am
by Jeff
Eric, are you doing any work on your C21 over the holiday weekend? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:26 pm
by Eric1
No Jeff, I'm giving my shoulder a rest until Teusday. I bought a TENS unit and it has helped a bunch, just gonna rest up before the next push. Y'all have a great forth down there!

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:27 pm
by Jeff
Thanks and you too Eric!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:20 am
by Eric1
Hey GAJeff,
I came in this morning and got a little bit done. I plan to wet this out tomorrow morning.
The day will be short as I'm taking my oldest daughter out for driving lessons! 8O 8O 8O !!!

I measured trim line, It was 253". I added a total of 12" for a 6" overlap at transom and bow for a cut total of 265". I rolled fabric out on the long table keeping on side of fabric at table's edge and cut the 265". Then I marked off 25 1/2" from edge every couple of feet. After striking the marked line, I cut fabric. That made the opposite side measure at 26 1/2", This creates a slight overlap at chine for lay up. This photo is the second layer, the first was at 25 1/2"
Image

This photo shows the fabric distressed at the bow when I cut it. The cut angle was very acute to bias in glass due to bow curve. No way to avoid it.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:23 am
by jacquesmm
Excellent illustration of how it must overlap at the bow.
Thank you for posting the pictures.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 am
by Eric1
Thank You Jacques! I hope this pictorial of the build will help some one else one day.

This is the first 60 ounces measured out. I calculated 7.36 yards of 12 oz. cloth this time. At 47% saturation that should be 82 ounces of epoxy. I keep extra cups marked and ready, as well as extra gloves etc. The clear(ish) squirt bottle is laquer thinner for cleaning spatula.

Image


Start time was 8:00 am, room temp. was 70.5 degrees. Finished at 9:42, temp. was at 71.5 degrees. Pretty good time as I worked alone and stopped twice for coffee. Used 87 ounces of epoxy. I was a bit rich in a couple of places but still not bad, That should put me close to a 44% saturation.

Image


I plan to return this evening to place fabric on the other side for wet out in the morning. I have to run and see if my youngest needs glasses. I noticed her squinting at her IPad yesterday. It never ends with children but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:21 pm
by Jeff
Eric, excellent photos and even better detailed use of the fabric and epoxy!! Please keep the photos coming!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:03 pm
by Eric1
Hey, Thank you Jeff!! :D
I'm getting excited when I step back and look at the boat! Friends and family on Facebook are following the build as well. I am getting many compliments on the project. 8) 8)

So here is where I am today. I gave this mornings wet out about five hours and at 76 degrees with a small fan moving air I was tack free. So I placed the final fabric on the other side. It's the same as previous length 265", however not as wide. This side is 25 1/2". At 44% I calculated 81 ounces. I'll prep. 6,12 oz batches and have marked cups on standby for a 6 and 3 oz. mix.

Image


I noticed this very unappealing gap this afternoon. I plan to use some of the drops of biaxial fabric to build this gap to a fair transition. At least for the most part, the rest I can fair with Quick Fair. I think this is best as this area will be where I install the bow eye.

Image


When I'm not boat building and working, Dad life takes over. This is how I looked when my oldest daughter parallel parked for the first time yesterday. I had a fighter pilot's 6G suction on the seat!!! The scary part is we picked a driver's manual for my youngest today. I feel more white hair coming on!! 8O :lol:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:21 pm
by Cracker Larry
:lol: :lol: Mine's all white! I went through a teenager who totaled 4 vehicles in 3 years :help:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:58 pm
by Jeff
Good picture Eric!! I remember teaching my daughter to drive, difficult days!!! Good luck and buckle-up!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:13 pm
by Eric1
Cracker Larry wrote::lol: :lol: Mine's all white! I went through a teenager who totaled 4 vehicles in 3 years :help:
Oh Sweet Baby Jesus I'm not ready for that!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:13 am
by Eric1
I was able to get this much done today. With any luck I will get the third bottom layer placed this afternoon. I would like to have all the glass work finished by Monday.

Start time was 8:07 am., Temp was 70.5 degrees. Finish time was 10:00 am., Temp. was 71.5 degrees. I used 6, 12 oz. batches plus another 2 oz. batch. I mixed 3 ounces and had a one ounce wasted. That put me at a 46% saturation. Photo looks like I have trapped air but I don't. I guess it's the way it's refracting light.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:14 pm
by Eric1
I went to shop and got some sanding done. It's ready for the third and last layer on the bottom. Two hours in a Tyvek suit sanding plus vacuuming dust and then a warm water wipe down. I'm beat, it sucked the energy right out of me. It was 76 inside and my car said it was 100 outside. I don't even know how y'all build boats in Florida!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:42 pm
by Jeff
Eric, excellent work on your boat even in the heat!! Yes, pretty hot down here too!! Have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:08 am
by Eric1
Thanks Jeff! I hope you had a great week end too!
I spent the weekend with family, More driving lessons! Happy to say My daughter has mastered parallel parking. :D
I got back to work and I will have to play catch-up this week so I'll be lucky to get these last two layers complete.

Here is the photo of next lay up.
This is a total of 248"(6.89 yards)of biaxial. I have a 5" overlap at transom and a 6" overlap at keel. This is as frugal as I can be and stay within design parameters.

Image

I been thinking ahead of the way I want to finish the build. I have moved forward with a full transom in mind. I am having second thoughts on this. The cost of an Armstrong bracket to do this is a concern. I may still use an outboard bracket but not one that wraps the entire transom.

My other concerns are what I really want from this boat.
While I'd like to think I am building a rigged out fishing machine, the truth is I am getting older. That means I need to build this boat around my need to fish but also be a comfortable boat to use. My knees can't take the pounding from a stand up boat anymore, so there won't be a lot of offshore use. Plus, I want this to be a family friendly boat, with seating for everyone. It needs to boat I can take my girls out on the lake and pull them around tubing etc. I have some ideas on final layout I'll have to run by Jacques. This maybe an odd set up but It is most likely my last boat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:37 am
by Cracker Larry
While I'd like to think I am building a rigged out fishing machine, the truth is I am getting older. That means I need to build this boat around my need to fish but also be a comfortable boat to use. My knees can't take the pounding from a stand up boat anymore,
I've been having to face up to that getting older thing lately too. My knees and legs don't hold me up like they used to. In fact nothing works as well as it used to :help:

Boat is looking great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:44 am
by jacquesmm
Let's talk about layout after you flip the hull but you can build an Hybrid boat, fishing and family, for example with jump seats or even a bench in the back.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:58 am
by Eric1
Cracker Larry wrote:
I've been having to face up to that getting older thing lately too. My knees and legs don't hold me up like they used to. In fact nothing works as well as it used to :help:

Boat is looking great!
Thank You Larry, That means a lot coming from a man that has built some Beautiful Boats!

This getting older junk is no fun. Heck, My shoulder aches from sanding and laying this boat up. I used to laugh at Granny on the Old Beverly Hillbillies show when she would sip moonshine for her rheumatism. I ain't laughing anymore. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:59 am
by Eric1
jacquesmm wrote:Let's talk about layout after you flip the hull but you can build an Hybrid boat, fishing and family, for example with jump seats or even a bench in the back.
My thoughts exactly my Friend. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:57 am
by Eric1
Build status:

This was the 248" (6.88 yards) of 12 ounce x 52" biaxial fabric I placed yesterday. Start time was 8:05 at 71 degrees, finish at 10:15 at 72 degrees. I used 141 ounces of epoxy this time. That was 11, 12 oz. mixes plus 1, 6 oz. and another 3 oz mix. That works out to a little better than 46%. After I had all the fabric wet I went back and checked for runs, I had quite a bit. I lifted the now gelled runs with a spatula. I probably cleaned up a good ounce.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:12 pm
by Eric1
Material came in today for these. It's a T240 foam from Polyumac.
They sent way more than I ordered. I called and asked them about it and they told me they just threw in the extra!!!! :)
Best part was I don't have to rip these on the table saw! :D :D :D

Image

Here is a detail picture. This is 1" x 1" by 90 degree. I'll piece these 4' sections together and cover with 6 oz. glass.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:57 pm
by Jeff
Very nice Eric!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:23 pm
by Eric1
Jacques,

Allow me to pick your brain. I am thinking I would be better off to to fair the hull with epoxy/microballons/sylica, then fiber glass the strakes in place with 6oz. tape. Then do the final fairing with quick fair. Is this a good idea?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:35 pm
by Cracker Larry
No, you don't want to glue and glass over fairing compounds, it's not a structural base. Do all the gluing and glassing before any fairing.

As clean as you are working, the fairing will go easily.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:43 pm
by Eric1
I was afraid of that. That will make fairing harder to do. Thanks for the help Larry.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:35 pm
by Eric1
Jacques, More questions.

Do think a single layer of 6 oz. fiberglass tape is enough to protect the strakes?

Should the strakes stop about 12" to 18" before transom?

Last one for now, Would you bond the foam strakes with epoxy and a small amount of silica+milled glass? Or what do you prefer?


Thank You,

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:48 pm
by jacquesmm
1. Strakes can extend all the way to the transom. A skeg should stop 12 to 18" before.
2. epoxy glue strakes to hull
3. fiberglass with several layers of 6 oz., 2 minimum
4. grind air out
5. coat with epoxy putty, either milled fibers or silica, several passes

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:18 pm
by Eric1
Got it! Thank You Sir!

I got this in place today. It is Stupid Hot today, 89 in the shop, 98+ outside! I hope to wet this out no later than friday morning. I doubt it will be cool enough in the morning to do it. It takes time for a 15,000 square foot machine shop to cool off even with the AC's running.

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I feel like I'm reaching a small milestone.

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I just want to give my sincere Thank You to everyone that has helped me thus far! You all have been fantastic to learn from!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:09 pm
by Cracker Larry
I feel like I'm reaching a small milestone.
A fairly large one really :D
Last one for now, Would you bond the foam strakes with epoxy and a small amount of silica+milled glass? Or what do you prefer?
I ain't Jacques, but I would use wood flour.
Do think a single layer of 6 oz. fiberglass tape is enough to protect the strakes?
I still ain't Jacques, but I would use 2 layers of 12 ounce biax tape. When it comes to boat bottoms, they can't be too tough to suit me. Like too much money, a woman too pretty, or a car too fast :lol: Build the SOB tough and forget it the rest of your life.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:48 pm
by Eric1
I'm with you on toughness Larry. :) I just doubt I can get 12oz. biaxial to form over the tight corners. I'm going with 2-3 layer of 6oz glass to start with. I had thought about using aluminum but bonding would have been a major issue.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:42 pm
by jacquesmm
I proposed milled fiber and silica for better resistance to abrasion. Woodflour will be easier to work with but not as hard.
If you plan to coat with graphite-epoxy, it does not matter, the abrasion resistance will come from the graphite.
12 oz. will be difficult to shape but strangely, because of the mat, 1708 shapes quite well: use what you have, try.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:52 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've never had any trouble shaping 12 oz. biax, give it a 3/8 radius, inside or out, and it will follow any curve :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:58 am
by Eric1
Cracker Larry wrote:I've never had any trouble shaping 12 oz. biax, give it a 3/8 radius, inside or out, and it will follow any curve :doh:
Larry I had problems with the 12 oz. tape forming the transom to the trim line step, it was a 1/4" step. I ended up filling the gap with ez fillet to get the tape to hold shape. Here I can't apply the 3/8" radius at the peak of the triangle so I figured Biaxle was out. Remember this is my first boat so I am trying to avoid the same issue. One other note, On the last roll of 12 oz fabric the stitch bonding seems a good bit looser. The glass fibers are moving around a lot more than the initial fabric I had. With that in mind, I would have had to buy 6" wide biaxial tape and cut it down to 4", That seemed wasteful to me.

Your advise and input is priceless to me! Just wanted you to understand why I chose 6 oz. tape. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:45 am
by Eric1
Final outside glass has been layed up!!!!

Final layer as required by Jacques for a 150 HP motor is done!!!!!
135 oz of epoxy used, start time 0830 temp. was 72 deg., finished at 10:20 was 74 deg.
This roll of fabric is not the same as the first. This glass fibers are not bonded as well as the first roll and they lift out of place much easier. It's forcing me to use a bit more epoxy to wet it out as I can't squeegy it out as much. Still, I'm staying withing acceptable parameters for saturation so I'm happy. Tonight I'll celebrate with my girls and have some cubed steak, rice and gravy! :D

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On a personal note,
I cut my shin during layup on the edge of the boat and it got me thinking. Every major project I've done in my life from building cars, custom motorcycles etc., I have given not just hard work and sweat but some measure of blood. I considered how Christ shed his blood to pay for our sins and what a great endeavor that was! Think of me what you will, but this thought has made me closer to my Lord!


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Have a Wonderful and Blessed weekend!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Every major project I've done in my life from building cars, custom motorcycles etc., I have given not just hard work and sweat but some measure of blood. I considered how Christ shed his blood to pay for our sins and what a great endeavor that was! Think of me what you will, but this thought has made me closer to my Lord!
You and I both :lol: I seldom can do any project without bleeding on it, pretty much never really. Every boat I've ever built has my DNA permanently embedded in it, in numerous locations. As does my shop, my house, my fences, my chicken house...... :doh:

Good looking work Eric!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:08 pm
by Jeff
Eric/Larry - Blood, sweat and tears!! Have a good weekend guys!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:02 pm
by Eric1
Hopefully I can get this on without bleeding all over it! :lol:

Plans do not call for this, I'ts my preference to seal the wood and give it some protection from scuffs. This is a 7.25 oz. style 7532, I'll be using US Composites 3:1 epoxy for this. I have about 4 1/2 gallons of this from an different application.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:03 am
by glossieblack
Beautiful and clean work Eric. :D 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:44 am
by Browndog
More blood please. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:41 am
by Eric1
Browndog wrote:More blood please. :D
:P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:03 am
by Eric1
Busy as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest!! :lol:

Man was this a Royal PITA! All this time I've been using Silvertip with slow hardener, that will spoil you! This Epoxy is fast, I was using a pump on the bottles. I could only do a single 3 pump resin to 1 pump hardener or it would gel. I had help from my Buddy Marc. He would mix as I rolled. We started at 8:15 at 72 degrees and finished at 9:20, temp was still 72. I would roll out the mix until pan was empty, then while Marc mixed the next batch I would do the spatula work. All that said the layup was smooth, just had to work fast.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:27 am
by Jeff
Really looks good Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:47 am
by Eric1
Just thought I'd show the method I used,to trim the style line while epoxy is in a plastic state. I did this to save some time sanding a difficult edge. This is using a rotary cutter. You can pick these up a Wally World in the sewing section. Keep a dry cloth and laquer thinner handy. After you cut a 6-8" section be sure to wipe the cutter clean. Here are the "Weapons of Glass Destruction":

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Trick is to work SLOWLY!!!
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Slowly lift the cut section watching for strings that want to pull at the fiberglass. Keep your trim scissors close. ;)
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Last step is to cut away the waste section. The idea of the small section is to, "Work small, Miss small". You have to be careful not to lift the fiberglass away from the boat. I was more comfortable working in this manner.
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I will wait until I have both sides on and cured before I trim the bottom edge. It comes off quickly with a side grinder.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:57 am
by Eric1
GAJeff wrote:Really looks good Eric!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:34 pm
by Eric1
I learned from from first layup with this material. I taped the fringe to keep the strings out of the way. ;) I'll wet this out in the morning.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:04 pm
by MrPaul
Looks beautiful! You mentioned being spoiled by the silver tip. Did it last longer before starting to harden? I'm using the marine epoxy with slow gardener that they sell here and I'm getting about 10 minutes to work with it in the roller pan before it starts to set up. It would be nice to have a little longer to work once I start glassing the inside. I'm usually working in 85 to 90 degrees.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:23 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've used both and haven't noticed the Silvertip having a longer pot life than Marinepoxy, if you use slow hardeners for both. I also work in 95 degree heat. With big layups like that you have to work fast, in small batches, about 12 ounces at a time. Start at one end and work towards the other. Spread it out as soon as possible. I don't even use roller pans, I just pour it straight from the mixing cup onto the hull and start rolling and spreading. I estimate what I'll need for the entire job and pre-measure that amount in plastic cups ready to mix. 8 oz.resin in red cups, 4 oz.hardener in blue. Spread one, mix one...keep going. Get it out of that container ASAP. Measuring everything first and getting tools organized before you start really helps prevent problems. One red, one blue, spread, repeat, keeping the wet edge all the way.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:54 am
by Eric1
I should have been more clear. I meant to say I am spoiled by the Slow hardener I have for the Silvertip. The hardener I have for this is Fast. Normally I use the same method my friend Cracker Larry described. I even tried that on the other side but I could not keep up with the runs. So that leaves me using a small roller, It's not too difficult, you just have to move pretty quick. This is the only surface I have had to have a helper. That is due to the fast hardener. I hope I remember all the stuff I'm learning for the next build. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:09 am
by Eric1
Nice and cool in the shop this morning. Started at 8:15 temp. was 70, finished at 9:40 temp steady at 70.
The outside skin is complete!!! :) :) :)
Next up lifting strakes and spray rail.

Image

Last glass on transom. 8)

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I'll remove the excess fiberglass from the trim line today, the rest can wait until Monday.
I hope everyone has a blessed weekend!
All the Best,
Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:56 am
by Jeff
Eric, your boat is really looking good!! Have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:50 am
by cvincent
Your fiberglass work is very nice. Thanks for the tip with trimming the glass.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:02 pm
by Eric1
Thank You my Friend!

Well I started towards the shop to sand and prep for the next objective but I never made it. I have been useless as boobs on a fish this weekend. I have a busy week ahead in the machine shop so I'm resting up. I reckon there are reasons old dogs like to lay on the porch sometimes. ;)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:28 am
by Eric1
Well I'm finally able to work on my build again. I've been very busy in the machine shop the last couple of weeks.
This is a photo of the trim line at the transom. In order to get the 12 oz. tape to form here I had to bevel the step away. Now that the hull is glassed I can repair this. I re-established the step with some file work first.

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Had to come up with a fixture to do this. I used a small piece of 3/16 aluminum wrapped in peel ply and placed on trim line.

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Secured it in place with duct tape. (I love the stuff)

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I filled the step filled with epoxy and silica/milled glass. Not the easiest thing to sand but it will be strong.

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I have a good bit of prep/sanding to do so I'm getting back to it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:59 am
by Eric1
Jamie, This is the void I'm talking about. It is very pronounced at the transom and will become smaller toward the bow. This is where I'm thinking to fill with chopped glass /milled/silica.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:48 am
by jacquesmm
From the designer:
that installation looks correct. The type of filler is not very important.

The same principle applies to all those edges: fiberglass will not lay properly over a sharp edge without creating air bubbles. It needs a radius. The radius size depends on the type of fiberglass and the skills of the builder.
In general, a 1/2" radius can be used.
Ideally, for hydrodynamic reasons, wherever water leaves the hull (transom edge, chine, rails etc.), we want a sharp edge, an easy separation of the water flow.
That sharp edge can be created either by adding putty and shaping it to a sharp edge or by adding a rail.
There isn't much stress on those rails, the type of fillers and glue is not critical.

More: production fiberglass boats do not have sharp edges because it is impossible to create them from fiberglass in a mold. They get close by filling a somewhat sharp corner with an excess of gelcoat in the mold. Often, when repairing those boats, we find air bubbles in those edges.
Racing or high performance hulls are "blue printed". Stuff is added to the bottom including sharp edges made from putty.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:45 pm
by Eric1
Jacques, I ordered some 1/4" chopped fiber to add to the milled and silica. I maybe paranoid but I don't trust milled by it's self in applications over 3/16" thick. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me!

On a different note, the filled epoxy was not setting after 4 hours. :? I scraped and cleaned those edges before I left work. I'll give it another shot tomorrow after the church car wash. I did manage to completely sand the hull and prep for strakes and fairing.

Have a great weekend every one!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:25 pm
by Eric1
I decided to clear the dust and sweep the floor today. Fiberglass dust was getting thick. I also cleaned the hull again. Here are where the lifting strakes will go. I think on the next boat I'll try to mark these out while the plywood is flat! Marking square and perpendicular lines on a curve was a lot of fun!

Image

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:25 pm
by Jeff
Looking better all the time!!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:18 am
by Eric1
Hi Everyone,
I started putting the lifting strakes on this morning. Here is how I'm doing it.

Had to come up with a way to get the glue on these without getting it every where. Thankful for the half rounds left over from a job at work.
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The arrow on trowel shows I'm using the middle set of teeth. The arrow on strake is the direction I'm pulling the glue.
Image

I came up with these cantilever weights to apply a bit of down force while gluing the strakes down. I think they will be more helpful at the bow curve.
Image

The surveyors string runs to this on opposite side of boat.
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I'm using the fast hardener for this, I thought since the mixes would be small it would be a good place to use it. I used 1 1/2 ounces of epoxy with a 2 ounce cup of wood flour for the glue. It came out to be the perfect amount! :)

You have to watch these for a little bit as they want to drift out of place until the epoxy starts to gel. The fast hardener was the right choice in my opinion.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:34 pm
by Eric1
I've made some progress, both of the lower strakes are on. I glued a small section to a piece of scrap wood so I can see how the foam will act when I apply the fiberglass. I'll test that tomorrow. Also,received some supplies this week, 1/4" chopped glass came and a box of sandpaper rolls came in today.
I've pretty much given up on the sample material from Polyumac for the spray rails. I'll move to plan B on that.
That's all for now.
Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:25 am
by Eric1
Here is where I started this morning. I have the first two strakes on.

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I left them short so I can easily fair the step created from overlapping the glass at the transom.

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Marked a line 2 1/2" back then used the top of my milled fiber bucket to outline the curve from center back to that line. This foam is very easy to work with. I have not pulled fillets yet, that is today's task.

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Test piece I just want to make sure the glass will form over the sharp edge without issue.

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NOPE!
Not what I hoped for, but I kinda expected this. I'll have to form a radius at the top and build it sharp after glassing.

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Truly not sure at this point these are bringing enough to the build for the amount of tedious work they will require.
None the less, they are on my plans so I'll see it through.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:01 pm
by Jeff
Eric, excellent work on a Saturday morning!! Your C21 is really looking good!! Have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:01 am
by topwater
Nice strakes, what kind of glass are you using to cover the strakes with :?: 12 oz bi axe mite make
that curve. Try a test with the 12 oz.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:23 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote:Nice strakes, what kind of glass are you using to cover the strakes with :?: 12 oz bi axe mite make
that curve. Try a test with the 12 oz.
Thanks Topwater, This was 6 ounce tape. Cracker Larry suggested the same thing. I'll set up another test, but I believe the sharp bend will have to go.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:29 am
by topwater
Maybe try the 6oz bi axe i think it has a more open weave.
Looks like i am not the only one not getting much sleep any more.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:32 am
by Eric1
Ok, I'll get some from Jeff Monday. Thanks for the tip.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:30 pm
by Eric1
The build is on hold, I've worked myself a good case of tennis elbow. It's very painful, Doc put me on anti inflammatory and a brace. Dang it, we're suppose to stay under 90 degrees all week too.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:53 pm
by Jeff
Eric, take care of yourself!! The boat will be there when you are well and able!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:29 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Buddy.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:01 pm
by Eric1
Well I'm finally able to get some more work done. It's been pretty rough the last several days. After my bout of tennis elbow subsided I had a flare up of a staph infection that returns once a year. This comes in the form of a very painful abscess on my posterior, this year just for fun, it returned to me near my male parts. 8O I had surgery tuesday to take care of the matter. Needless to say there is a part of my body that is swollen and painful. Lucky me, It feels like I have a ten pound clapper of the church bell between my legs! :lol: :lol: :lol:
All of that and school starts monday for my high school sophomore and my college freshman!!! :D



None the less, Here is where I'm at with my C21.
After sanding a small radius (about a 1/4" radius) I was able to get the glass to lay up without forming air bubbles.
This is the first layer of glass on the strakes, 2" wide 6 oz. tape, I used 3 oz. of epoxy for 4.33 yards.

Image

Here I just finished this lay up. Second layer is 4" wide 6 oz. tape. I used a little over 5 ounces of epoxy for this. That's kinda crappy but I had to use a brush for application and couldn't use the spatula to remove the excess epoxy. Any attempt to squeegee the epoxy would pull and lift the fiberglass. I got a frustrated and said to heck with it. Some days you are the windshield, some days you are the bug.

Image

From the transom.

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That's all for today. I may try to get the second layer of 4" tape on in the morning, just depends on how I feel.
Y'all stay safe and have a great weekend!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:24 pm
by Jeff
Eric, I hope you are better!! Have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:25 am
by Eric1
Continuing with strake work today. I had several air pockets I had to cut away and fill yesterday. They will need a bit more epoxy to complete. Oddly they were on the flat of the strake not the crest.

I also started addressing the Transom edge yesterday. I built a dam of 1/16 g10, wrapped that in peel ply and positioned in just above the bottom plane of the boat. Here is the before picture:

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Here is the after, I still have some fill work ahead but I need both sides in the rough so I'll have a surface to work from. This was two 1.5 oz. mixes of silica and milled glass. The first was a sludgy pourable to fill to the bottom of the dam. The second was a thicker paste to hold without running. The shiny surfaces are low spots and will be scuffed with 80 grit to help with bonding.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:33 am
by Jeff
Eric, really nice work!! Hope you are better!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:40 am
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff,

I'm not hitting on all cylinders yet but I'm better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:10 am
by Jeff
Good, at least you are better!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:43 am
by Eric1
Pictures of dam and first "pour" on second side.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:26 am
by Cracker Larry
You've been paying attention in class :D Looks great, Eric.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:51 am
by Eric1
:D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:08 pm
by Eric1
Slow going this week. I got last layer of tape on the inner strakes. Also got second layer of camel snot on transom edge.
With any luck It will sand out and be ready to fair in the morning.

Image

Behold the snot!

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Done for the day. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:50 pm
by Jeff
Great work Eric!!! She is really looking good!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:03 am
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff! I appreciate the encouragement. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:46 am
by MrPaul
Cracker Larry wrote:You've been paying attention in class :D Looks great, Eric.

Wish I would have paid attention. That dam really makes the job of sharpening the edges look a lot easier than just a bunch of packing tape. What do you make the dam out of?....just so I'll know on my next build.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:28 am
by Eric1
Mr. Paul,

I used a strip of 1/16" g10 fiberglass sheet. You could use aluminum the same size also. I wrapped the strip in peel ply and duct taped it on the back of the strip. Then this was positioned just above the plane of the bottom of the boat. I held it with duct tape at the bottom of the strip and cut small strips of tape to hold the top of the strip to the bottom of the boat. I filled with two mixes of epoxy/milled glass and silica. The first was loose per say like molasses, this allows the mix to get to the bottom of the dam. Be prepared with a mixing stick to pull and re-position the first pour, it will run some. The second is more like putty. Let the first mix set for an hour or so (fast hardener) before adding the second mix.

All the Best,

Eric

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:07 am
by Cracker Larry
That dam really makes the job of sharpening the edges look a lot easier than just a bunch of packing tape. What do you make the dam out of?....just so I'll know on my next build.
That's the trick. Make a dam. I use a scrap piece of plywood and cover it in plastic, then attach it with duct tape.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:16 am
by Eric1
Good Morning,

Here are the transom edges. I'm calling these complete for now. I still have a little bit of fill work to do but I need the spray rails in place first so it can wait.

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Second side.

Image


I have finished the fiberglass on the first two strakes and in doing so I have changed my plans. I don't see me bring these back to a sharp edge. For the time and epoxy it will take it is not in my opinion worth doing. Even Jacques said earlier "they are not required". Plus this is not a race boat so blue printing to that level would be nuts!
All that said, I can lay across these without discomfort so I'm going to go ahead and install the other two before I start fairing anything on the bottom. I may start fairing the transom as I wait for epoxy to cure on the other strakes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:32 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice crisp edges. Those will clean up perfect. No need to do that on the strakes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:00 pm
by MrPaul
I had all the supplies on hand except for the fast hardener. Looks like I took the most difficult route. I went over a packing tape dam with a hard roller and a spatula for hours on each one. Well...at least I got some experience in what not to do on my next build. I could have done all the corners in 1 day had I done it the right way. :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:14 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote:I had all the supplies on hand except for the fast hardener. Looks like I took the most difficult route. I went over a packing tape dam with a hard roller and a spatula for hours on each one. Well...at least I got some experience in what not to do on my next build. I could have done all the corners in 1 day had I done it the right way. :doh:
All I can say Mr Paul is post questions to the forum. Everyone here has been a great help to me!
"Anyone can walk the cow pasture barefoot once, after that they learn and NEVER do it again!!"
My Father's wisdom. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:25 pm
by MrPaul
I'm sure I'll go for a few more barefoot strolls in the pasture before I'm done but all the help is definitely appreciated. The next time I have to sharpen edges it will be a lot easier. Thanks again!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:12 pm
by Eric1
I made it this far today. Had other things to attend. -_-
I may finish this strake in the morning. Pretty good day, Transom edge sanded, Inner strakes sanded ready for fairing, plus swept hull and wiped it down again with warm water. I hate working in dust.

Image

I'm headed to the house, There is a Large glass of iced tea calling my name!! :D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:44 pm
by Jeff
Looks great Eric!! Have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:55 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Jeff,You too!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:37 pm
by Cracker Larry
Anyone can walk the cow pasture barefoot once, after that they learn and NEVER do it again!!"
My Father's wisdom. :wink:
I think we've all walked through that pasture, some of us a few times :lol: There aren't many problems that we haven't figured out the easiest way, or the best way, which isn't necessarily the same thing. When in doubt, don't fight it and do it wrong, just ask :wink: Somebody here knows how and there is no need to re-invent the wheel.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:59 pm
by Jeff
Eric, have a look at the main website, BoatBuilderCentral.com where you will find your C21 featured!! Again, really well documented build with details and pictures for all of our members and guests on the forum!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:01 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Eric, have a look at the main website, BoatBuilderCentral.com where you will find your C21 featured!! Again, really well documented build with details and pictures for all of our members and guests on the forum!!! Jeff
Thank You! I'm honored!!! :D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:47 am
by Eric1
I came in this past Saturday and glue the last section of the third strake in place.
Due to the amount of curve on the bow I could not get this perfect, it will have to do.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:58 am
by mmachonis
Eric,

This is Mark Machonis, in New Jersey on my C21. I wanted to ask you how fit/attached the Upper Side Panels to the Low Side Panels. I know they over lap 6 inches to create the Style Line on the boat. How did you hold the panel in place after it was glued? I am using Gel Magic as my adhesive. I'm not sure what the best method is for holding the panel in place after it is glued. I will use screws on the transom. I'm not sure what to use on the bow and along the port and starboard sides, more screws, zip ties all the way through both panels?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

I hope all is well!

Thanks.

Mark

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:12 pm
by jacquesmm
I replied to the same question in another thread and deleted it to avoid a double post.
That panel should fit with just a couple of temporary screws. I have seen it done on a C19 with no screws at all, panel supported at the sheer and a couple of straps to help where needed.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:06 pm
by Eric1
mmachonis wrote:Eric,

This is Mark Machonis, in New Jersey on my C21. I wanted to ask you how fit/attached the Upper Side Panels to the Low Side Panels. I know they over lap 6 inches to create the Style Line on the boat. How did you hold the panel in place after it was glued? I am using Gel Magic as my adhesive. I'm not sure what the best method is for holding the panel in place after it is glued. I will use screws on the transom. I'm not sure what to use on the bow and along the port and starboard sides, more screws, zip ties all the way through both panels?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

I hope all is well!

Thanks.

Mark

Mark, Per Jacques, I was able to use some small #6 screws for this. After the Gel Magic was hardened it was very easy to back the out and fill the holes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:47 am
by Eric1
I got the last section in place this morning.

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This build has slowed to a crawl due to my health. Three nights ago I was cleaning the wound from the abscess and something was sticking out of it. The following morning I went back to the doctor. This turned out to be a pinky finger size piece of surgical gauze that had to be removed. Seventeen years ago I went to the ER with the first outbreak/infection of this nature. The doctor at the time opened and cleaned the abscess and pack it with gauze to drain it. He told me after two days to pull the small string out, and I did, about three yards of very small gauze tubing came out. I was never told to return for a follow up and I thought all of it had came out. I was wrong, there is still gauze in my body and I have an appointment (a month from now :x )with a surgeon to have it removed. This is why the infection keeps coming back. I am am not happy about this and I am considering a lawsuit. I am on two antibiotics and pain meds until then. :x :( :x :(

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:04 pm
by Fuzz
Man that sucks :!:
At least you know what was causing the return infection and maybe this time it will get taken care of.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:48 pm
by Jeff
Eric, that is absolutely not acceptable. You should review all of your options as this gross medical mistake could have killed you!! Please take good care of yourself and let us know when the surgery is completed and you are recovering!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:50 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Guys, I'll keep y'all updated. I'll do what I can on the boat but it will be slow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dang :!: Nope, that's not acceptable. Call a lawyer. And I sure hope you get better fast !

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:47 am
by Eric1
Here is an update on me and my boat. I talked with a couple of lawyers about my medical situation and was basically told I was hosed. Hospitals here only have to keep records for 7 years so I have no way of proving who did the procedure. Second, I was told only about three percent of medical malpractice cases are won in S.C. . Nice :x So I'll have to pay to have this junk removed.

So After taking antibiotics for a while I'm feeling better and I decide to catch up on weed eating my yard. It had been about 5 weeks so I had a forest of grass etc to deal with. I get up last Saturday while it's cool and get on it. Two hours into it my weed eater gets hot and doesn't want to crank. I'm pulling the cord and my shoulder pops. Yea, You guessed it, I'll pull muscle going to my rotator cuff. I got a cortisone shot monday and Doc says not to run machines or sand on my boat or anything. Like I could do any of that from the pain anyway! :lol: :lol: :lol: I may be changing my name to Job.

I've been going a bit stir crazy so I decided to do what I can without further injuring my shoulder.
I decided to start putting the spray rails on my boat. Here are some pictures of this morning, I'm not sure I like the lines though. I've got these placed right at the chine. Working with 4 foot sections of straight foam and making it form to the hull shape is not easy. This the best I can do.

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What do y'all think? Does this look bad or is it ok?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:42 pm
by Jeff
Eric, sorry about the law suit, I did not know they only had to keep medical records for 7 years!! Your boat looks great! Just take it easy for a while longer!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:57 am
by MrPaul
The spray rails and runners look great. Take it easy on the shoulder. You're going to need it when your boat's done and it's time to cast baits.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:37 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Fellas.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:19 pm
by Eric1
Still taking it easy with this but I got a little bit. done today.

I ripped forty feet of spray rail at a 30 degree angle. Then I made a small gage to check the radius I had to sand and fit for fiberglass. This shape will be easier to glass and use a less epoxy over a single 3/4" radius.

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First one is glued to boat. That's all for today. I hope the storm spares you all.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:38 am
by danieloldhouse
What material is that Eric?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:00 am
by Eric1
It's 24 ounce closed cell foam from Polyumac. It is the same density as pine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:06 am
by danieloldhouse
Interesting! Better then wood cause it doesn't move at all

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:56 pm
by Eric1
My main goal was to keep it rot free. These will have three layers of 6 ounce glass on the top and sides. The bottom will be a platform for epoxy milled glass to form a sharp edge.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:39 am
by Eric1
Good Morning my Friends!

The boat build is moving at a snails pace. My shoulder gets sore from the least amount of work. I was able to get the second spray rail in place this morning though. I mixed 6 table spoons of epoxy, I needed half of that. I need to find a better way to mix these small batches. I had to make some strap clamps to keep the pressure from the band clamps from lifting the rail away from the hull. Thought I'd share the way I am doing that.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:01 am
by Fred in Wisc
Small batches work great with these:

http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... =e_syringe

Just get one for resin and one for hardener. Very precise and easy to mix whatever size batch you need.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:56 am
by Eric1
Thank You Fred! I have some 10cc but they are a PITA to fill. These look like the trick. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:44 am
by Fred in Wisc
How are you filling them? I use 2 small cups, one for resin and one for hardener. Each one gets its own syringe. First suck up the resin with the syringe, taking a little more than you need. Wipe the tip off with a paper towel, point the syringe up and draw a little air in, wait for the bubbles to rise to the top, then press the plunger a bit to purge the air, then purge the excess resin back into the cup to get to the amount you want (lets say 10 cc for example) in the syringe. Then shoot that into a small mixing cup or bowl. Now do the same with hardener, but half as much. Mix and use.

It takes longer to explain than to do. The important part is getting the air bubbles out so they don't throw off the ratios when you are dealing with small amounts.

The syringes last a while doing it this way, as long as you don't let them sit too long between uses. then they get sticky. You can usually fix that by drawing a little epoxy in and working the plunger back and forth a little at a time to free it up again.

I've had some that have a real small opening and are hard to fill since the resin is viscous. On those I either use a narrow pick tool or a small drill bit to make the opening a little bigger. then they work fine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:42 am
by Eric1
Big Thank You to Fred! You motivated me to find some bigger syringes and they are the trick! :D
I didn't want to wait for these to ship from Jeff. I found these at Tractor Supply in town.

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I mixed 24 cc's of epoxy and it was perfect for the 1 1/2" x 4' section. The next section has to bridge the overlap of biaxial tape at the bow so there is a small gap from that to the side. I plan to mix about 30 cc's to have enough to fill that gap. Here is the section I put on this morning.

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I've been taking it easy at work and not sanding anything on the boat this week. My shoulder is not hurting at all this morning. As a matter of fact nothing was hurting when I woke up! I pinched my self just to make sure I wasn't dead!! :lol: :lol:

So after that last section sets up I'm gonna try some sanding with this air tool. It's a tool we use in the shop for deburring metal parts. I could not justify buying it to build a boat, This one runs around $500.00. 8O I'll knock the tops off the last two strakes and finish the radius by hand.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:03 am
by Eric1
I got the last 4' section of sprayrail on this side on this morning. I've tossed ideas around on the lamination for this and I've decided I'll have to round the sharp edge of the foam to do it right. It's going to add a fair amount of work to the build but I would not be pleased cutting the corner so to speak. I'll build the edge back up like the transom after the fiberglass is in place.

Jeff, I may have to order another roll of 4" tape. :lol:

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Here is the reason for building this boat. On the left is Danielle my oldest and third from left is Judy. We spent yesterday afternoon at the lake goofing around. It's always good to be near the water.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:05 am
by Cracker Larry
Fine looking family Eric 8) :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:54 am
by Eric1
Thank You Larry. They are my world.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:28 pm
by Jeff
Good looking group of young ladies Eric!!! I think they are waiting for their boat???? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:48 pm
by cvincent
Your spray rails are looking great. Sanding a large hull like yours will certainly wear a person down. I hope your tool makes the sanding job more efficient. It will be worth the labor in the end when you can cruise around the lake with your daughters in a boat you built.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
Just wondering, how in heck do you keep the boys away :?: :!: Shotgun :?: :help:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:15 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Good looking group of young ladies Eric!!! I think they are waiting for their boat???? Jeff
They are! I keep telling them I'm doing the best I can. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:17 pm
by Eric1
cvincent wrote:Your spray rails are looking great. Sanding a large hull like yours will certainly wear a person down. I hope your tool makes the sanding job more efficient. It will be worth the labor in the end when you can cruise around the lake with your daughters in a boat you built.
You got that right! This small detail work is slow but I can't hurry it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:23 pm
by Eric1
Cracker Larry wrote:Just wondering, how in heck do you keep the boys away :?: :!: Shotgun :?: :help:
Well the truth is I don't try. When a young man shows up, I'm cleaning an AK or something of the sort. Then I take their picture. I explain that a good relationship is all about communication. I tell them that I know what they are capable of, and more importantly, I KNOW what I'm capable of. Then I ask if they feel I have communicated clearly with them. Every one of them has said, "Yes Sir". Never had an issue with any of them. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:02 pm
by danieloldhouse
Cracker Larry wrote:Just wondering, how in heck do you keep the boys away :?: :!: Shotgun :?: :help:
Larry looking at some of your posts (may be in the bilge?) I was just wondering if you can bore me some of your toys, I've got a sixteen years old daughter... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:16 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sure Daniel, but not too sure that I could ship them to Italy though. Might get both of us put in jail, in the big house 8O :help: Just shipping across state lines here is a bother. Legally any firearm bought in any state other than the one you reside has to first be transferred to a Federally licensed gun dealer in your state. Then he is required to run you through the FBI background checks. It is a PITA for a law abiding citizen, but overall, maybe a good thing. I don't know. I can almost see South Carolina, can hit it with a rifle shot, but if I buy a firearm from across that bridge. it has to go through a licensed Georgia firearm dealer. It really isn't easy for an average person to buy a firearm, but it's very easy for criminals to get them.

Sorry for the hijack Eric.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:24 pm
by Eric1
NO Hijack at all, just good fun. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:39 pm
by danieloldhouse
:lol: :lol: :lol: yeah just good fun! My nephew showed me once a nice t-shirt with the ten rules for daughter's pretenders:
1) find a job
2) be sure I don't like you
3) I'm everywhere
4) hurt her and I'll surely hurt you
5) bring her back home 5 minutes earlier
6) find yourself a lawyer
7) I'll always understand when you'll be lying
8 ) she's my princess not your conquer
9) I don't mind going back to prison
10) everything you'll do her I'll do it to you

Don't know why but point 9 looks the most convincing 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:57 pm
by Fuzz
My best friends daughters new boyfriend showed up one evening to take her out. After the father had spent some time speaking with the young man he put an arm around his shoulder, pulled him close, kissed his cheek, and told him "anything you do with my daughter I will be doing with you" :lol: Must have worked as the young ones are now married and from what I see he is a really good guy. Air Force Academy grad, Raptor pilot.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:26 pm
by Eric1
Love these! I salute Dad's with girls!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:20 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've got a friend and neighbor who had two teenage girls. They aren't anymore, but he actually made 2 tombstones and put one on each side of his front porch. One said "Boy who brought my Daughter home late" . The other said "Boy who hurt my Daughter". He never had much trouble with boys :lol:

I'm really glad I had a boy instead :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:26 pm
by Marshall Moser
:lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:27 pm
by cbdigh
I'm with you Cracker Larry, glad I've got boys and don't have the headaches of boyfriends of daughters! Although my late father in law was very intimidating!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:36 am
by Eric1
I got the first layer of glass on the outer strakes today. If temp stays low I'll shoot for second layer after lunch.

Image

Here is a picture of first spray rail after I removed the clamps. I should have left it short at the bow so I could overlap it with glass. I'll grind it back a few inches, Dang it. :roll:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:15 pm
by danieloldhouse
Better too long then too short Eric :wink: adding is more difficult then remove, you're doing a very nice job!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:54 pm
by Jeff
Excellent point Eric!! Hope you are getting better!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:12 pm
by Eric1
Thank Guys, Yes I'm a good bit better. Still being careful with the shoulder, I got a lot of sanding ahead.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:43 pm
by Eric1
I continued work on the outer strakes today. After sanding the fillet on port side and the first layer on starboard this morning. I got the second layer of 6 oz. tape on starboard side and first layer on port. It was a total of 31' of 4" wide tape, I used 9 ounces + 18 cc's of epoxy. I don't know why but the edge of the tape is lifting up and requires sanding between layers. So far working with this tape has been my least favorite thing to work with.

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I'm off to pickup a birthday cake and card for Danielle. She will be 18 tomorrow!!! :D :D :D
Where does the time go? I remember carrying her in the hospital to show the new grandparents. It felt like my feet were not touching the floor, It still does, every time I hug her.

Y'all have a Great Weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:47 pm
by Jeff
Eric, you too and hope you are feeling better!! Happy Birthday to your to your 18 year old!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:17 pm
by topwater
If you use biaxe tape it would probably lay down better than regular tape.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:02 pm
by Browndog
Eric,

Have had similar problems with the tape in the past. Especially the thicker finished edge. It is helpful sometimes to trim the finished edge off of the tape prior to applying as this often allows the tape to lay down better. Also, occasionally making a slit in the tape will help it to go around curves.

Been admiring ythe progress of your build. Looking good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:00 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Eric, you too and hope you are feeling better!! Happy Birthday to your to your 18 year old!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff, I'm doing much better. I'll pass your greeting to her. :)
topwater wrote:If you use biaxe tape it would probably lay down better than regular tape.
I may try that next time. Thank You
Browndog wrote:Eric,

Have had similar problems with the tape in the past. Especially the thicker finished edge. It is helpful sometimes to trim the finished edge off of the tape prior to applying as this often allows the tape to lay down better. Also, occasionally making a slit in the tape will help it to go around curves.

Been admiring ythe progress of your build. Looking good.
Thank You!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:04 pm
by Eric1
I came in to sand and apply third layer to the last strake and found Murphy sent his gremlins to the shop. I had a half dozen air pockets to grind out and fill. Did I mention I hate 6 oz. tape?!?!?!?! :x

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All filled with silica/milled glass. Pick it back up in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:08 pm
by Fuzz
Needs to be a hunting season on Murphy and his gremlins. No closed season, no bag limit :D
Even with all that the boat is sure looking good. Keep up the good work.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:48 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote:Needs to be a hunting season on Murphy and his gremlins. No closed season, no bag limit :D
Even with all that the boat is sure looking good. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Fuzz! Those gremlins might slow me down but they can't stop me!!! :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:24 am
by Eric1
Good Morning Friends,

I got the last layer of tape on the port strake this morning. I'm very happy to be finished with the 6 oz. tape for now.

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I've been using any left over epoxy to build up the bow where I had a gap I didn't like. Here is the before and the current picture.

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Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:41 pm
by Jeff
Looks good Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:10 pm
by Jeff
Eric, give me a call this afternoon (when you have time and no rush) regarding the US Government (Navy) Haze Grey paint!! 772.770.1225. Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:01 pm
by Eric1
Thanks for the time on the phone Jeff. I'm pretty excited about the news!! :D

Yesterday I made three more clamps to speed up putting on the spray rails. I'm glad I did! I got four sections on today alone. 8)
I did have three more blisters in the last strake, I'll go back and grind and fill them after the spray rail is complete.
Today's progress:

Image

Once these are on, I have the glass work to do and I can start fairing.
I feel close to another mile stone!!!!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:03 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!! Hope to have you a response on the paint tomorrow afternoon!! US Government (Navy) Haze Grey will be very cool!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:18 pm
by Eric1
Been a crazy day. Walked in the door and I had machine issues. :(

I worked a little on the boat. I got the air pockets ground out of the last strake and I shaped the spray rails. I'm going to fill the air pockets after this post and pull some fillet on the last spray rail.

Image

Bow

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:04 am
by tcason
real nice build and attention to detail!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:11 am
by Eric1
Thank You!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:15 am
by Eric1
I filled these yesterday, used a duct tape dam to get form close. Sanded this morning. I'll finish these when I apply the same mix to the spray rails.

Image

I spent 2 hours laying the 6 oz. tape PITA. Yes I laid it over the sharp corner, I'm expect air pockets to form there. I will relieve the corner once wet with a razor blade. It maybe an exercise in futility but I hate to have to sand that nice edge away.

Image

Couple of pictures from bow:

Image

Image


I just got off the phone with Jeff and Jamie and I got the primer, paint and brushing activator ordered.
All I can say is DAYUM! 8O 8O :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:02 pm
by MrPaul
This boat is really coming together nicely. The runners and spray rails look sharp!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:39 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote:This boat is really coming together nicely. The runners and spray rails look sharp!
Thank You Paul!! :)

Last work of the day, I wetted these out this afternoon. My chine length was 237 1/8" per side, each side used a 6 oz. batch of epoxy with about a teaspoon leftover. That's about a 43% saturation, not bad because I have had to use more epoxy working with this tape.

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I made a gut instinct decision at the last minute and decided to cut the fabric at the edge before I applied the epoxy.
So far I think this technique is going to preserve my sharp corner and work well!! 8)
Here you can see the effect this had on the layup. As I build the layers I'll extend that raise fabric each time. I hope after three layer I can create a uniform edge to apply the thickened epoxy/silica/milled glass mixture.

Image

Termination at bow, should just need sanding and fairing!

Image

This probably all I'll get done over the weekend. I'll be back here in the morning to check on it, but, the reason for coming is my girls want to shoot their guns and have me teach another young lady to shoot!!!

Y'all have a Great Weekend!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 pm
by Jeff
You too Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:14 pm
by Eric1
The second layer is on. I only used a total of 9 oz. of epoxy but I only needed to wet 3 inches of the 4" tape.
I may only use two layers here. I'll decide after this cures.

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:12 pm
by Jeff
Looks really good Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:32 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Buddy!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:54 pm
by Eric1
Today I sanded the spray rails decided to go with the 2 layers of glass.
Started filling the bottom edge with milled glass and silica.
Here is the first layer.

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Other end:

Image

Also this came arrived in good order.

Image


As a bonus the Good Lord saw fit to give us some nice rain!!
We've been lacking up here in the foothills.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:54 pm
by Jeff
Good stuff Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:20 am
by Browndog
Looking good!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:51 am
by Eric1
Thank Y'all!

I've been sanding this morning since 8:30. I just came to my office for a break and coffee.
Kinda out of steam, I'll pick it back up after lunch.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:51 pm
by Jeff
Eric, did you receive the examples of the rub rail? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:05 pm
by TomW1
Eric looking good! When you get to the 3rd fairing coat and before you sand it, do a guide coat. This can be any thing from a fast drying spray paint like Krylon, I like a bright blue, or printers ink, or even the graphite sold here. After you sand it you will see the high and lows and know what you need to do with either the epoxy mix or with Quick Fair. For the Krylon keep the can moving so you only get drops and not a solid spray.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:45 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Eric, did you receive the examples of the rub rail? Jeff
Not yet Jeff, I'll probably see it tomorrow.
TomW1 wrote:Eric looking good! When you get to the 3rd fairing coat and before you sand it, do a guide coat. This can be any thing from a fast drying spray paint like Krylon, I like a bright blue, or printers ink, or even the graphite sold here. After you sand it you will see the high and lows and know what you need to do with either the epoxy mix or with Quick Fair. For the Krylon keep the can moving so you only get drops and not a solid spray.
Thanks Tom, I actually looked at where you did this a few weeks back. I'd plan to use the technique. 8)


BUILD UPDATE!!!!
Milestone reached!!!!
All exterior glass is ready for fairing
:!: :!: :!:

I've spent the last two days sanding and checking for little drips etc.
I stopped at 3:30 to clean up the hull and the work area, put things away and get the long table back in order.
A couple of my employees volunteered to sweep the deck with compound to get the dust up. I'm thankful for people like that.
Here are the pictures.

You know Jacques designs strong boats when it will support my chunky self without flexing! :lol:

Image

I'm feeling rather Proud of this boat. 8)

Image

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:57 pm
by Jeff
Great Eric!! She looks really nice!!! Glad you have reached this milestone!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:30 am
by danieloldhouse
You MUST be proud of your work Eric, you're doing a very good job!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:43 am
by Cracker Larry
I'm feeling rather Proud of this boat. 8)
you should be! You've done one hell of a fine job of building it so far 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:46 am
by Eric1
Thank y'all!!!

I stopped in the grocery store and got a sponge mop. Came to the shop and gave the hull a hot water wash.
Then I went over it with a clean cloth. I took another look at the bow and decided to add another coat of milled/silica.
I'm sure it's filled to my satisfaction now. What did Yogi say?.."It ain't over till it's over". :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm thinking it will be close enough for fairing after this. I'll get up in the morning and long board it to see where I'm at.

I don't know if I've mention this but but I'm mixing this filling compound at 1 part silica to 2 parts milled glass until I get a thick paste that doesn't slag after 10 seconds on the mix stick.

Here is the bow:
Image

The mix was 1.5 oz. so I used the left over to fill step from tape on transom.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:50 am
by Jeff
Did you receive the rub rail yet? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:41 pm
by Fuzz
Really nice build! I am enjoying watching this one come together.
I got to ask.........how many drips do you have on the floor that will need ground off :doh: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:06 pm
by cape man
Image

That's a great picture!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:08 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Did you receive the rub rail yet? Jeff
No, It didn't come today. :( Did you use my UPS#?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:10 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote:Really nice build! I am enjoying watching this one come together.
I got to ask.........how many drips do you have on the floor that will need ground off :doh: :lol: :lol:
Thanks Bro! Believe it or not only four so far!!
cape man wrote:That's a great picture!
Thank You. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:30 pm
by Fuzz
Dang you work much cleaner than me. I have learned to put plastic on the floor from the start or spend a bunch of time on my knees grinding the floor clean :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:46 pm
by Cracker Larry
I got to ask.........how many drips do you have on the floor that will need ground off :doh: :lol: :lol:
I've got an epoxy drip outline of 8 different boats under my shed. Adds character :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:07 pm
by Jaysen
advantage of working on sand or cheap ply... just don't care about the drips :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:49 am
by Eric1
Good Morning Everyone,
After a weekend of doing nothing but relaxing I started fairing this morning. I switched over to this epoxy for the task at hand.

Image

First thing i had to do was make fairing mix of microballons and silica. I weighed out 4 ounces of balloons to 1 ounce of silica.
Placed that in a bag and shook the crap out of it. Decided to mix small and start at the transom. That being a large surface it will give me and idea of how much coverage I'll get for a given mix. I ended up mixing two 3 oz. batches of epoxy with 4 ounces of fairing mix by volume. This was like a "thick gravy" consistency which was very good for a fill coat on a vertical surface.

Image

This is what I spilled and why I don't always lay down plastic/paper. I can clean this up while it's still wet.

Image

Well I'm going to go get some more done.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:53 am
by Jeff
Eric, nice advertisement for MarinEpoxy, Thank you!! Did you get the rub rail samples? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:06 am
by Eric1
No :(, Jeff you may want to get tracking going. UPS just came in the door with other things but not that.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:18 am
by bateau-webmaster
Eric, they say they arrived (USPS not UPS) at your most recent ship to address. They will be in a cardboard tube, with plastic end-caps.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:02 pm
by Eric1
Hey Guys It just came in. Thank Y'all :D

After a quick look I think the Tessilmare 30mm kit will look just fine. I need to get one measurement to confirm the kit will cover what I want.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:05 pm
by Eric1
I mixed a 6 ounce batch and got about 1/4 of the bottom surface coated. I'm gonna grab a sandwich and see if I can get the first coat done today.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:33 pm
by Eric1
Another 6 oz mix finished half of bottom.
Temp. is climbing, I'm at 79 degrees now, going to try one more pour.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:35 pm
by danieloldhouse
Wow Eric, you're pushing down the accelerator! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:58 pm
by Eric1
Yea, Also pushing my luck Daniel. Shop temp has reached 84 degrees at end of third 6 oz. batch.
Mixture started to get thick at the end and I had to throw another 1.5 oz mix to reach the same distance as other side.
What that tells me is I need to stop, I almost pushed the last batch too far. :roll:

Last batch:

Image

I'll pick up here in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:06 am
by danieloldhouse
Ouch, still very hot down there! Here the last two nights has reached 50 degrees :cry:
keep up the good work!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:39 am
by Eric1
Went to work this morning, I got the bottom fished with first coat.

Image

Started down the first side also. This is how far a 6 ounce mix went (6 oz. epoxy to 6 oz. fairing mix).

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:39 pm
by Jeff
Eric, looks great and nice clean work!!! Did you receive the rub rail samples? Hope all of you are getting ready for Hurricane Matthew!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:14 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Eric, looks great and nice clean work!!! Did you receive the rub rail samples? Hope all of you are getting ready for Hurricane Matthew!! Jeff
Hey Buddy, Thank You. Yes the samples came in. I think the 30 mm Tessilmare will look just fine. I'll ship these back to you tomorrow. 8)
I just need to make sure a 46' kit is enough for this boat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:41 pm
by Jeff
Good Eric!! I thought the 30 would work!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:10 pm
by Eric1
Well while y'all are boarding up I got the first fairing coat completed today.
I wish you all the best of luck and we will be praying for all y'all in the path of the storm.

Image

Image


Jeff, My paint came in today. I'll call you monday morning!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:35 pm
by peter-curacao
WOW 8O very nice job already !Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:42 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Peter. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:29 pm
by seaslug
Eric, the boat looks fantastic. My approach to the initial fairing may be totally wrong after seeing yours. I use West System 410 filler mixed a little thicker than what I see you're doing, trying to get 90% of the imperfections filled with one coat. Than I sand it down and fill where needed. Do you now, after what you're showing in the photos, re-apply more filler before sanding, or do you sand this first application, than fill some more? I'm working on my second build, and still feel I need to work on perfecting my technique to minimize the horrific job of sanding, and to waste less material. I find that the Silver Tip package that is sold and recommended for the build doesn't even come close to the filler and filleting material needed for a top notch finish. Of course I made my dry bilge/storage areas smooth as a babies butt, so that uses a lot of filler. Great job. Mike

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:10 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Mike. I just wanted to get a thin coat in the weave first. Next I'll kiss sand it with 80 grit. Then I plan to spread a thick mix over the transition areas. You know where the tape layers build up from over lapping and where clothe overlaps. When that's cured I'll go thick on those D@#m strakes and the spray rails. Keep watching the build Mike, I'll post pictures as I go. For what it's worth I'm not sure about what I'm doing, it's my first build and I'm going with my gut and help from the forum.
As for the kits needing more in them, I would agree based on my build. In all fairness, no pun intended, I know Jacques designed this boat a long time ago and I'm adding glass in places he did not call for. I will present my BOM at completion for Jeff and Jacques to review. I will say this, every epoxy kit they sale should include four things they don't have in them now. A tube of Ben Gay,a bottle of Aleve, a heating pad and an ice bag!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stay safe down there and God Bless

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:55 pm
by Jeff
Maybe a new kit may be in order!! Good luck with the hurricane!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:23 pm
by Eric1
Hope the storm is staying away from y'all.
It took all day but I have the whole boat sanded. I sponge mop her in the morning and resume fairing.
All done with orbital and 80 grit.

Image

Image

Image

I'm tired and I'm going to the house.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:40 pm
by Fuzz
You might be tired and sore at this point but the hull is really looking good.
Later on you will be glad you put in this amount of effort. Well maybe much later :lol: After the soreness goes away :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:15 pm
by seaslug
Eric, you're a braver man than I, taking on a 21 foot boat for your first build, and doing what appears to be very nice job. But, I was hoping you or someone else would have some special magic method of applying and sanding all this fairing filler. I think Jacques and the crew in Vero need to develop a revolutionary new wonder product you just throw on the hull with a broom, that flows out like a sheet of glass, with no sanding necessary.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:38 pm
by Eric1
seaslug wrote: But, I was hoping you or someone else would have some special magic method of applying and sanding all this fairing filler.
That's the idea behind the way I'm trying this. By adding a little at a time I hope to avoid having to heavy sand most of the boat. Who knows, I may be creating more work for myself. :doh: :lol:

Here is the second coat on the transom, I used 4 ounces of epoxy with 8 ounces of fairing mix by volume.

Image

Here is the second coat on the surface below the chine and above the trim line. I used 16.5 ounces of epoxy mixed 2 to 1 with fairing mix to do both sides.The fabric above the trim line was a 7.1 ounce plain weave so I'll go to quick Fair to finish it.

Image

Image

My knees are sore from yesterday so I decided not to start the second coat on the bottom today.
I'm going to go pick up a pork tenderloin and some vegetables to roast for supper tonight.
Still hoping all of my Coastal friends are being spared from this Hurricane.
I'm watching the forum for updates and still praying for your safety.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:21 pm
by Jeff
Eric, thanks for your comments!! I think we were very lucky, for those of us south of Indian River County!! The hurricane could have been much worse!! My thoughts are with everyone from Jacksonville north up the coast!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:26 pm
by Eric1
I think Charleston is gonna get hit. Hopefully it will keep loosing strength.Local news is projecting Tybee island will be under water and most of Hilton Head too.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:52 pm
by Jeff
Eric, you and the family stay safe!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:52 pm
by seaslug
Up here in Flagler power went out at 7:15 this morning, max winds probably 90, I've heard part of the pier came down, Snack Jacks restaurant on the ocean gone, and 10 blocks of A1A washed out. Mandatory evacuation, so I can't leave the house to look around. My house lost most of the screens on the pool enclosure, one gate ripped off, and the highest water in my canal in 39 years, not much more before I'm shampooing the carpets. Hope it doesn't get any higher. A lot of people I'm sure got hit hard, I'm lucky.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:05 am
by Eric1
Jeff wrote:Eric, you and the family stay safe!! Jeff
Thanks Jeff, We are a long way inland.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:08 am
by Eric1
seaslug wrote:Up here in Flagler power went out at 7:15 this morning, max winds probably 90, I've heard part of the pier came down, Snack Jacks restaurant on the ocean gone, and 10 blocks of A1A washed out. Mandatory evacuation, so I can't leave the house to look around. My house lost most of the screens on the pool enclosure, one gate ripped off, and the highest water in my canal in 39 years, not much more before I'm shampooing the carpets. Hope it doesn't get any higher. A lot of people I'm sure got hit hard, I'm lucky.
I saw a1a on a video, it's eroded and the road has collapsed. St. Augustine is swamped. Praying for you my friend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:45 am
by Jeff
Sounds like SeaSlug has had it bad. Let us know if you get any further details on him or any of our other members. Headed to the office in about an hour to check on everything!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:15 pm
by danieloldhouse
Jeff wrote:Sounds like SeaSlug has had it bad. Let us know if you get any further details on him or any of our other members. Headed to the office in about an hour to check on everything!! Jeff
:( :( :( praying for him and for all involved in this tremendous moment

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:57 pm
by seaslug
Sea slug here, No need to worry, I came out fine with no serious damage. Still no power, but the weather is beautiful, dinner on the Coleman stove, and hoping the power comes on before I lose the Shrimp and Fish in the freezer. Guess I should own a little generator. Most of the damage around town was to older homes that weren't in great shape, lots of vinyl and aluminum siding gone along with older roof shingles. Could be a lot worse. Thanks for all your concern, can't wait to continue my build after the clean up. Mike

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:39 pm
by Eric1
seaslug wrote:Sea slug here, No need to worry, I came out fine with no serious damage. Still no power, but the weather is beautiful, dinner on the Coleman stove, and hoping the power comes on before I lose the Shrimp and Fish in the freezer. Guess I should own a little generator. Most of the damage around town was to older homes that weren't in great shape, lots of vinyl and aluminum siding gone along with older roof shingles. Could be a lot worse. Thanks for all your concern, can't wait to continue my build after the clean up. Mike
Very Happy to hear this!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:47 am
by danieloldhouse
seaslug wrote:Sea slug here, No need to worry, I came out fine with no serious damage. Still no power, but the weather is beautiful, dinner on the Coleman stove, and hoping the power comes on before I lose the Shrimp and Fish in the freezer. Guess I should own a little generator. Most of the damage around town was to older homes that weren't in great shape, lots of vinyl and aluminum siding gone along with older roof shingles. Could be a lot worse. Thanks for all your concern, can't wait to continue my build after the clean up. Mike
Thx God!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:49 am
by Jeff
Really good to hear SeaSlug!!! Hope the power is back soon!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:34 pm
by Eric1
I got some sanding done today. Transom looks good , one more coat of micro balloons before I switch to Quick Fair.

Image

This did well also,

Image

This side was the last I did friday around 2 pm. It is not sanding well and loading my paper with a hard plastic grit.
It is fingernail hard to the touch but I needs more time. I had to stop about halfway froward from transom.
I plan to run a couple of work lights on it to see if that will help it cure out. We were pretty chilly this morning, about 47 degrees.
Praying I don't have to strip it off. :roll:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:29 am
by Eric1
After running a couple of work lights the second side cured hard, so I finished sanding it.
Then I moved back to the Transom and started putting on third layer of fairing mix.

Image

I had a good bit left over from transom so I added it to the sides where the transom joins up.

Image

Image

I'll start at the bow after lunch as this is the heaviest application.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:39 pm
by Jeff
Eric, this looks really good!! Send me the afternoon pics when you have a chance!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:35 pm
by Eric1
Hey Jeff,

I'll post them in the morning when I get to work. Cooler temps feel great but it is killing cure times.
I have had 2 halogen work lights on the transom since 10 am, it's still slightly tacky. I did another three ounce batch to the bow before
I left, 'i have a small space heater going on that tonight.
I may give you a call in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:05 pm
by Jeff
Eric, give me a call after you have had a look to see how well the curing has gone (overnight)!! Have a nice evening!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:12 am
by Eric1
This was yesterday afternoon's progress, Here is the bow with a small space heater I left running overnight.

Image

Here is the one side at transom, for control I did not use a heat soucre.

Image

This was the set up on the transom.

Image

The results are the control side set up as well as the other surfaces. Perhaps the proximity to the lights at transom skewed the results.
The bow set up but was the softer of all the surfaces. My guess is the heater did not bring much to the picture. I believe I would have to shroud any area I use the heater on to trap the warm air. I test sanded everything lightly and all surfaces are loading the paper with firm plastic particles. Here is a photo of the post cure on the transom, if you look closely you will see am "X" I made with my thumbnail.

Image

I believe the best results are from the power lights so I have those on the bow now.

Image

I talked with Jeff this morning and I placed an order for some fast hardener. I will mix it 1/1 with slow hardener for the first batch to see the results and pot life time. Our morning temp in the shop is around 69 degrees. That not far off from the 71 degrees it's been but we are barley seeing 80 in the afternoon, where we were seeing 89+ by quitting time.
Rather than waste time, I'm applying a third coat with what I have to the upper sides where I have low spots. Look close at the underside of the sprayrail. The rest of the mix I using to feather out the overlap from the 12 oz. cloth/tape. I hope once this cures and I sand it I can switch to Quick Fair.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:06 am
by Fuzz
Eric your boat is really looking good. Nice place to work in also.
I think you will be good with the fast/slow mi on the hardener. I keep my shop at 60 or less in the winter. I only use the fast hardener and it works fine. Most of the time I end up waiting over night for things to be ready to sand. Your shop being warmer and using a mix should be just right. As always I think making a small test batch would be a good idea :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:37 am
by Eric1
Just finished second coat opposite side.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote:Eric your boat is really looking good. Nice place to work in also.
I think you will be good with the fast/slow mi on the hardener. I keep my shop at 60 or less in the winter. I only use the fast hardener and it works fine. Most of the time I end up waiting over night for things to be ready to sand. Your shop being warmer and using a mix should be just right. As always I think making a small test batch would be a good idea :D
Hey Fuzz, Thanks for the info!! I'm not going to start the bottom until the fast stuff gets here.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:44 pm
by Jeff
Eric, your half gallon of Fast is shipping today!! I know it is not curing as fast as you want but you are really making some great progress!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:04 pm
by Fuzz
One more thing. I used a bunch of QuickFair on my dory and other projects. I have never had any problems with it going off and getting hard. The difference is it is never ready to sand in 4 hours. I normally need to let it set overnight and the next day it is good to go. One good part is I seem to have a much longer working time than most of you :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:19 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote:One more thing. I used a bunch of QuickFair on my dory and other projects. I have never had any problems with it going off and getting hard. The difference is it is never ready to sand in 4 hours. I normally need to let it set overnight and the next day it is good to go. One good part is I seem to have a much longer working time than most of you :lol:
Well Fuzz, All I can say is you found a way to look at it in a positive fashion. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:35 pm
by Eric1
I've been steady sanding today since 8 am. I lost an hour and a half for lunch and return of a sander.
After maybe 10 hours of time I wore the sander out. I returned it and I got a new one.
Here is the transom sanded after two coats of fairing mix. I believe I can switch to Quick Fair now.
What do y'all think?

Image
Image

I got started on this corner but I'm wore out and I'm feeling it in my shoulder. That is going to be a wrap for today.

Image

If I work on it anymore I'll post progress. Y'all have a good weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:53 pm
by Jeff
Eric, nice work!! Have a good weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:07 pm
by cvincent
Eric, in my opinion you will are ok moving forward with quick fair at this point. Quick fair is great to work with.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:55 pm
by danieloldhouse
Good progress Eric, thanks for your prompt updates! Have a nice weekend

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:59 pm
by Eric1
cvincent wrote:Eric, in my opinion you will are ok moving forward with quick fair at this point. Quick fair is great to work with.
I'm looking forward to using it. Everyone seems to like it.
danieloldhouse wrote:Good progress Eric, thanks for your prompt updates! Have a nice weekend
Jeff wrote:Eric, nice work!! Have a good weekend!! Jeff
Thank You Gentlemen! :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:53 pm
by pee wee
Is that a pneumatic body file you've got there? How do you like it for sanding a boat hull?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:21 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote:Is that a pneumatic body file you've got there? How do you like it for sanding a boat hull?
Yes Hank it is. It's great to use where you are working a flatter section of hull. Have to be mindful around the bow as it will cut an unwanted flat real quick. It also reminds you how bad of shape your triceps are in when sanding a transom! :lol: It wasn't that bad but I was wore out after today's session. O'Reilleys auto part for 69 bucks. If you get one be sure and tighten the screws and nuts that hold the sanding plate to the actuator. I didn't on the first one, and the star washer wore through the plate. First thing I checked on second one and sure enough they were only finger tight.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:19 am
by Fuzz
It is cheating to use an air sander :!: You need to be using a fairing board, it builds character :lol:
Boat is looking good. You are going to like using the QuickFair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:19 pm
by MrPaul
Fuzz wrote:It is cheating to use an air sander :!: You need to be using a fairing board, it builds character :lol:
Boat is looking good. You are going to like using the QuickFair.
I started cheating with a dual action sander. Fairing boards build character, and they build muscles. :lol:

With the bad shoulder it's probably best you stay away from the fairing board.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:53 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote:I started cheating with a dual action sander. Fairing boards build character, and they build muscles. :lol:

With the bad shoulder it's probably best you stay away from the fairing board.
Right you are Mr. Paul. I'm also using some Durabloks and they work on the shoulder.It's gonna take me longer with my shoulder the way it is but I will get this done. I just have to stop more often and take breaks.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:43 pm
by Eric1
I continued sanding today. Finished the sides from chine to trim.
Fast hardener came in also. I still have some deeper places I need to fill so I'll get a batch made in the morning.
The bow is a sweat hog! :lol: The bright spots in the first picture are low areas I need to fill.
Third picture is a close up of that area. I'll scuff that shine off before I fill it in the morning.
I'm envious of you guys that are building skiffs!!!

Anyway, I hope everyone had a good day. Here are the pictures.

Image

Image

Lows
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:29 am
by MrPaul
Eric

I've quit using the fairy dust and resin mixture and started using the quick fair. It's easier to apply and easier to sand (like a night and day difference). I haven't done a cost analysis on it but once you count the cost of the epoxy you use, the fairy dust fairing method is still expensive.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:58 pm
by Eric1
This morning I mixed a 50/50 blend of fast hardener to slow. Threw a three 3 oz. batches to fill the worst of the lows. Was finished by 10:30 am., all have set up and will be ready for sanding in the morning. It's 5:50 pm and they are not even tacky!!

Image

Image

I started using a small coffee grinder to mix the microballoons and silica. It does a great job of turning the chunky silica to powder.
After dumping the mixture out you have to scrap the silica out of the bowl though. My guess is it is hygroscopic which causes the clumping.
You get a really smooth fairing compound using this method.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:55 pm
by Jeff
Great tip Eric!! Glad it is going well for you now!! Thank you, Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:13 pm
by Eric1
After a busy week at work with new projects I came in this morning to reclaim my new title of Dust Monkey! :lol:

Image

This crap gets in everything and travels all over the shop.

Image

I started around 9 and I'm done for the day. My dang shoulder can't handle more than a few hours. :(
Here pictures of what got done. I had just vacuumed and sponge moped. First twelve feet on the side and the transom.

Image

Image

Y'all have a great weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:21 pm
by Eric1
I believe I have finished the rough sanding from the chine to the trim line. I think I'll prime it next then I will fill with Quick fair.
I know I have some low areas but I can't tell how much the primer will cover until I use some. Does this sound like a smart move to y'all?

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:34 pm
by Jeff
Eric, I will call you in the morning. I agree on going to the primer now!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:01 pm
by MrPaul
I've been fairing for 6 weeks. Your making me feel like a slow poke.

Your boat looks great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:23 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote:I've been fairing for 6 weeks. Your making me feel like a slow poke.

Your boat looks great!

I've only faired from the chine to the trim line and the transom. Thank You for the compliment though. :)
I'm going to put another coat above the trim line in the morning. I would like to prime both of those surfaces
at the same time.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:47 am
by topwater
Eric if you know they are low at this point they will be low with primer, hit them now then prime.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:53 am
by bateau-webmaster
She looks pretty fair to me, but priming is a good way to see all the little fairing mistakes. If you are to the point where it's hard to find obvious spots to add fairing to, then yes I'd say it's time to prime.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:54 am
by bateau-webmaster
by the same token, I'd say just do a single coat first, touch up your fairing, and re-prime once you're satisfied with it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:20 am
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote:by the same token, I'd say just do a single coat first, touch up your fairing, and re-prime once you're satisfied with it.
THis was the plan I have in mind. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:35 am
by Jeff
Good Eric. Send me some photos after the first cost of primer!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:31 am
by TomW1
Eric if you want to check it and get a really good fair boat do a guide coat. Use a fast drying spray paint like Krylon or 3M's Guide Coat if you can find it. Then sand and it will show your low's and highs.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:16 am
by Eric1
Hi Everyone,
I have not touched the boat this week due to work load at the shop.
I decided to hold off on the primer for now as I really want to fair the upper panel first.
That way I can prime both side panels together. I am doing a test on fairing technique to see how to go about fairing the lighter cloth.
It's only a 7.1 ounce fabric so I mixed 6 ounces of epoxy to 4 ounces of fairing mix. I rolled it on with a foam roller. I covered what you see in two passes until I could see an orange peel look, then I gently "tipped" it with a squeegee. I plan to sand this with 120 to start as it is a thinner coating. I'm just trying to fill the weave without a lot of build.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:47 am
by Jeff
Eric, nice!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:38 am
by mmachonis
Eric,

This is Mark Machonis from Mark's C21. How are you! I hope you recovered from the storm without too much trouble.

I was looking through your posts to get some ideas for ensuring that my laying of the fiberglass cloth goes smoothly. Thanks for your pictures, they are very helpful. I have a question about the use of the rotary cutter along the style line. When you are trimming the fiberglass cloth along the stlye line, are you trimming the cloth against the lower panel so the cloth folds over edge of the panel overlap or are you trimming the fiberglass so it is flush with the upper side panel face edge? Ultimately, I am trying to find out if the cross section edge of the upper panel, where the upper panel and lower panel meet and overlap, is covered with fiberglass cloth. Or is that edge only covered with resin without any cloth. I would hope that it is covered with cloth? Does the cloth bend over edges more easily than the tape? Jacques has always said that the tape needs a 1/2 round in order for the tape lay flat without any air pockets. Does the fabric lay on an edge easily? As you say in your post, wait until the fabric is still in a plastic state before cutting. In doing so, will the fabric fold over that edge and stick easily?

Similarly, the fabric that covers the lower panel from the Chine to the Style line, does that fabric overlap the top panel at the style line? Or does the fabric get cut just at the style line flush with the lower panel?

Lastly, when did you put the fabric over the transom, before or after you finished the bottom and sides?

Thanks.

Mark

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:51 am
by Eric1
Hi Mark,

I hope you enjoying your build. For my build there is no overlap at the style line. I trimmed at the corners trying to keep a square edge.
If you try to overlap without building a radius or transition it won't work. This leaves the edge of the plywood exposed but that is going to be addressed when I finish fairing. My plan is tape off below the style line and pour a slightly thickened epoxy milled fiber radius to cover it. Once I have both the upper and lower panels faired I'll go back and do this.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:14 pm
by Eric1
I came in to see the results of the test. I am pleased with what I found, but first I want to go on a short rant.
One of the tools I'm "cheating" with is an inline air file. I had to return the first one due to the backing plate wearing through. The second one has given me nothing but trouble. I mean to the point of cussing and feeling the need to throw it against the concrete floor. The only thing that stopped me is I want to get my money back. Here is a picture of the Terd, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS BRAND!!! I have a $15,000.00 scroll compressor for the shop and the dang tool would only run for 2 minutes and it would lock up like it was air starved. I had pressure at 95 psi, Shop air is 125 psi, it ain't lack of air. :x :x :x

Image

Lesson learned I bought a new one from Amazon. It cost me $280.00 ish. It is not a piston design but uses a geared track. Much smoother operation and it works! American made not a wang chung import!

Image

Ok, so now that's of my chest here are the test results. I started with 120 as planned but it was cutting to slow. I switched back to 80 an got down to business! This really shows the low areas well, I am quite please with the results of the roll technique for lighter weight cloth. From my past experience with fiberglass I would say this would work well up to an 8 ounce fabric. Any lamination above that will need a thicker mix to fill the weave and show the lows with the same contrast. Understand I'm speaking more to the small lows not the obvious large areas.

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A little closer.

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Well I'm off to do one thick fill on the a few areas on the chine panels then I go buy tickets for the hay ride and corn maze with my girls tonight. I hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:11 pm
by Jeff
Great information Eric!! Clearly helpful for the builders!!! Have a fun weekend with your girls!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:47 pm
by Jeff
Have not had an update from you in the last few days, all well up your way? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:05 am
by Eric1
Hi Jeff,
Thank for checking in on me. The boat is on standby for now. I'm am busy with new work in the machine shop. I make all the fixtures and write all the programs for our CNC's. Plus I Step through each new setup to proof the process. Right now I'm fighting with my lower back, it's very painful and stiff. I'm taking a prescription muscle relaxer that makes me a goofball when I get home. It's a bit much but I never surrender and I will get back to the boat when things settle down.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:30 am
by cape man
Hope the back heals. I had three years of it in early 2000's that I remember too well. Hard to build anything when you're hurting. Jealous of the air tools :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:34 am
by topwater
Hell i'm jealous of the shop :!:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:14 am
by Jeff
Eric, glad your shop is busy but hate hearing about your health!! Take care of yourself and watch those crazy meds!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:28 pm
by Eric1
cape man wrote:Hope the back heals. I had three years of it in early 2000's that I remember too well. Hard to build anything when you're hurting. Jealous of the air tools :wink:
Thank you for wishing me well. The air tools are a blessing. :)
topwater wrote:Hell i'm jealous of the shop :!:
It used to make good money but competing against China and Mexico has us surviving not growing. Level the playing field and no country can out produce us.
Jeff wrote:Eric, glad your shop is busy but hate hearing about your health!! Take care of yourself and watch those crazy meds!! Jeff
Thanks Buddy.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:18 am
by MrPaul
It used to make good money but competing against China and Mexico has us surviving not growing. Level the playing field and no country can out produce us.

Looks like that might just happen. Soon! On the down side...you might be so busy you don't have time to build your boat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:16 am
by Eric1
Wow, I can't believe it's been almost a month. I have been busy with work, family and church. I'd forgotten how busy life can get through the holidays!
I put another 6 ounce of fairing compound on today. I might get more on after lunch.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:35 am
by Jeff
Glad to hear from you!! Hope all is well with you and your girls!! Happy holidays, Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:40 pm
by danieloldhouse
I'm very glad to hear you're ok, waiting for more pictures :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:51 pm
by Eric1
Hi Everyone! I hope you had a wonderful Christmas!!! I got some work done today on the build and thought to share pictures of the progress.
I started out sanding where I left off. A couple of hours with the air file and orbital got this section done.

Image

I decided to work in 3 oz. bathes today so I could take little breaks and give my shoulder a rest. I didn't want to get halfway into a large mix and have to stop if it acted up.

Image

Next:

Image

I had enough fairing mix to do one more batch. I decided to put it on the aft section as it takes a bit more to fair the tape overlaps.

Image

I may get to do a little more tomorrow afternoon. I have to hit the DMV in the morning to renew my license, let my 15 year old get her permit and my oldest will hopefully pass her road test this go around. :lol:
If for some reason I don't post before Jan.1 2017, I hope you all have a safe and Very Happy New Year!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:04 pm
by Jeff
Eric, Good to have you back on the forum!! Best of luck at the DMV!! I remember my daughter getting her license about 12 years ago now!! They grow up too fast!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:01 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Jeff. It has gone too fast!!
So far tonight the shoulder is fine, no pain. Hopefully I can get back on this.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:15 pm
by Jeff
No pain is always good Eric!!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:21 pm
by Eric1
Hi Everyone,

I got back to slinging mud today. Again 3 oz. mixes.

First mix finished trim line to sheer and started working the bottom.

Image

Next batch went on other side of bottom.

Image

I'm going to do one more batch of mud then I'm headed to the house to get cleaned up. I don't go out on New Year's Eve so I'm taking these two out for a dinner tonight. :D :D :D

Image

I wish you all a Very Happy New Year!! Be Smart, Don't drink and drive. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:35 pm
by Eric1
Last Batch this year.

Image

Other side.

Image

For posterity,
I don't don't need your rocking chair, Your Geritol or Obamacare,
I still got Lighting in these veins, this gray hair don't mean a thang!

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:33 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!!! Happy New Year to you and your girls!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:10 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Buddy!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:07 am
by Eric1
Just wanted to post to let y'all know I'm still alive. :lol: I've been blessed with a ton of work in the shop. The only drawback is I have a supervisor out from a motorcycle wreck so I'm running machines to help keep up production. There is not a day that goes by that has me wishing I could work on my build. I have to keep the machine turning to make a living first.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:41 pm
by MrPaul
MrPaul wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:18 am
It used to make good money but competing against China and Mexico has us surviving not growing. Level the playing field and no country can out produce us.

Looks like that might just happen. Soon! On the down side...you might be so busy you don't have time to build your boat.
Told ya

I hope your supervisor is better soon and it frees up a little time for you to build.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:46 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:41 pm
MrPaul wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:18 am
It used to make good money but competing against China and Mexico has us surviving not growing. Level the playing field and no country can out produce us.

Looks like that might just happen. Soon! On the down side...you might be so busy you don't have time to build your boat.
Told ya

I hope your supervisor is better soon and it frees up a little time for you to build.
Thanks Mr. Paul.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:19 pm
by MrPaul
I was enjoying the show. This thread is definitely boat porn at its best!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:23 pm
by Eric1
Worked on the Boat today. Last Friday I put 9 ozs. of Fairing compound on the bottom. Today I added another eighteen. Moving at the speed of a racing turtle! :lol:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:58 pm
by Jeff
Nice work and good to hear from you!!! Boat really looking good!! Hope you and the kids are doing well!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:02 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Jeff, We are all doing well.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:19 pm
by Eric1
I finished putting the first coat of fairing compound on the bottom today. To cover from keel to chine I've used 51 ounces of epoxy. I put this on thicker than I did the sides. I feel like I was putting it on to thin when I worked the sides and I still have work to do there. I'm going to treat this like 6 sections. I plan to fair the two "sections" that form the keel from transom to bow. I'll work forward until the shape becomes heavily curved. Then I'll work the middle two and then the chine. Once I have this coat done I'll fill the strakes and spray rail. After that I'll go to quick fair for final fairing. I don't know if this is best approach, but when I was fairing the sides the surface under the spray rail was problematic. This way I hope to avoid the issues I had. To be honest, I most likely would not use the closed cell foam for the strakes and rail again. That has created more work than I believe was needed for the benefit they will bring.

Here is the Boat "Porn"

Image

From the bow.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:52 pm
by Fuzz
I think working in sections is a good deal. On a larger project it does not feel like you are getting any where if you try to do it all at once. At least it does to me.
Boat is looking really good. Keep plugging along and it will get done.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:03 pm
by Eric1
Hi Everyone,

I decided to start fairing the bottom today. These are pictures of the first cut with #80 grit.
I had to take four pictures to show the entire surface. I've ordered another 1 1/2 gallon kit of Quick Fair.
I'm getting tired of the wait time to start sanding using epoxy and micro balloons. I still have half a bag left
of the fairing mix and I'll use it in deeper spots as needed.

Here is where I am today.

Image

Moving forward towards bow.
Image

Image

I started getting into the curve of the bow so I stopped with the air file. The last thing I want to do is introduce flat spots.

Image

I plan to come in and work another section tomorrow. Y'all have a great weekend!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:43 pm
by Jeff
Eric, nice work!! Glad to see you back on the boat!! Quick Fair shipping today!! Have a good weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:55 am
by Eric1
I'm just now getting back to work. I last worked on this on a week ago. I caught the flu and was out all last week, still don't have a voice.
I'm really happy with the first half. All the lows areas were where I thought they would be. I had to modify my sanding plan because I'l a bit lazy. I didn't feel like dragging my work tables back and forth to do it the way I planned. Here are couple of pictures of the progress. What do y'all think?

Image

From the Bow.
Image

I'm going to grab a bite of lunch and start the other side.
P.S. Jeff, The quick Fair came in fine last week. Thank You.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:04 pm
by Fuzz
Looks to me like you are darn close to the priming stage. Very nice looking work.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:08 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Very nice, good progress Eric! Clearly visible lows, and as long as all the high spots are mostly smooth that's exactly where you want her. Now she's ready for a semi-final quick fair pass, more sanding, and then primer (at least on that section).

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:28 pm
by TomW1
I am not sure how sure how well you want to get the bottom fair, but now is the time to apply a primer coat before you add any more fairing material. I like a blue fast drying Krylon, there are other options also. It has been discussed before. You want to keep the spray can moving to get dots not a solid coat. Once it is on and dry then do a sanding and it will show you your lows and how low they are so you can put in the right amount of fairing material.

Good luck

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:31 pm
by pee wee
TomW1 wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:28 pm I am not sure how sure how well you want to get the bottom fair, but now is the time to apply a primer coat before you add any more fairing material.
I think he meant to say guide coat, not primer coat- it can be spray paint, ink, graphite powder, anything that is easily visible when applied and so the low spots will retain the material after sanding to point out where filler is needed. You can get fancy and buy a special product from the automotive paint suppliers, but as Tom said, cheap spray paint will work.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:34 pm
by Eric1
Thanks for the guide coat reminder! I'm not quite ready to go to Quick Fair. I still have a couple of areas I'll use the micro balloons on. The tape transitions at bow and transom will need a thicker fill. after that I'll go to Quick Fair.
The bottom has taught me a few things. I will most likely have to go back and do a complete fairing job on the side panel from chine to trim line. I'm concerned I have overworked the fairing there. I am showing glass in far to many places for my liking. I plan to address this after I finish the bottom.
Thank You to everyone for your input!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:02 pm
by Eric1
I almost got side 2 sanded. My arms gave out around 3 pm.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:20 pm
by Jeff
Really looking good Eric!! Nice work!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:40 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:19 am
by danieloldhouse
Oh oh, flippin' in sight! :wink: Very nice, Eric!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:18 pm
by Eric1
I finished sanding the bottom this morning. As I said I have a little more work to do with the epoxy microballoons.
Here is the low area at the transom.

Image

I mixed another 3 oz batch and filled as follows. I do this to the other side and the bow areas.
Then I plan to switch to Quick Fair.

Image

Well I got the other side at transom done and my coffee grinder gave up the ghost. I'm headed to Wal Mart for another one.
I like using it, I get a really nice creamy mixture when I grind the silica and micro balloons first.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:59 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!! I will ensure I pass-on the coffee grinder tip!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:40 pm
by Dutch1
Re: the coffee grinder.

It works great!! I bought a cheap one from goodwill and sat there one night and ground up the whole bag I got from BBC. As Eric says it was very smooth with no bumps at all.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:35 pm
by joe2700
Dutch1 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:40 pm Re: the coffee grinder.

It works great!! I bought a cheap one from goodwill and sat there one night and ground up the whole bag I got from BBC. As Eric says it was very smooth with no bumps at all.
Does it make the product harder to sand or more dense? I'm imagining it crushing the balloons so you end up with something closer to silica than fairing filler but maybe I have it wrong.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm
by Eric1
joe2700 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:35 pm
Dutch1 wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:40 pm Re: the coffee grinder.

It works great!! I bought a cheap one from goodwill and sat there one night and ground up the whole bag I got from BBC. As Eric says it was very smooth with no bumps at all.
Does it make the product harder to sand or more dense? I'm imagining it crushing the balloons so you end up with something closer to silica than fairing filler but maybe I have it wrong.
Hey Joe,

It does not not affect the sanding from what I've seen. Keep in mind, I'm only pulsing the grinder for a few seconds.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:02 pm
by joe2700
Ahh, I was picturing a burr grinder. I can totally see how a blade grinder would just break apart any clumps.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:15 pm
by Eric1
Started this morning putting on another 3 oz batch in the low surface at the bow. I had a little left over and used it on the other side.
Good idea I thought, Not so much, That prevented me from filling the other side because I had wet out my guide surface. :roll: :lol:

Image

So I decided to move on to something I have been dreading, filling the strakes. I had to kiss sand these from where I dripped fairing compound when I was working the bottom. I applied tape to the bottom to keep from building that surface any higher. Then mixed another 3 oz batch and went to work.

Image

I'll hit the bow in the morning. After that I have to hang and wire a bunch of LED lights in the shop.
I may not get much done on the boat tomorrow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:46 pm
by Eric1
The weekend passed without further boat work. Seems my teenage daughters made other plans for me.
So, I got back to it today in and around machine shop business. I picked up filling the other side of the bow.

Image

After that I taped the strakes on the other side and started filling those in.

Image

Third batch for the day was to fill the chine to transom and also the radials at the transom.

Image

I used the last bit on opposite side and on the spray rail.

Image
Wow! I just realized in the last picture you can see how bright the new LED shop lights are!
I can't wait until I get the rest of the up. I only got six up last Friday before I ran out of steam. :)
I hope to get the rest of the spray rail filled in the morning. Y'all have a good evening.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:06 pm
by Jeff
Eric, you got a whole lot of work done today and the boat is really showing well!! By the way, the new lights look great and no yellowish anymore in photos!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:28 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff! I thought I had already posted that but I guess I didn't, sorry about that.
Well I have a couple of tired arms. I sanded the second fill at transom, the strakes and the second fill on the bow from yesterday and today.
I was not able to use the air file on the strakes other than knocking of the overlaps from the spatula. The tools weight and aggressive nature had it trying to cut into the glass where the strake meets the bottom surface. This means I had to hand sand all of that! 8O
None the less it's done! I have the highest respect for those of you who have faired really big boats, it's a ton of work.

Here is a photo of where I am thus far. The white spot is a low spot that's shiny and reflecting the lights.

Image

Tomorrow's plan is to finish filling the spray rail and sand the trim line down. Then i'll have to wait until next Thursday before I apply Quick Fair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:34 pm
by Jeff
Eric, that future US Navy Grey Boat is really coming along nicely!!!! Enjoy your break from sanding!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:42 pm
by MrPaul
I'm starting to feel like a slacker. You finished fairing a bigger boat a lot faster than I've done mine. Bad shoulder and all. Looks like I need to pick up the pace.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:57 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:34 pm Eric, that future US Navy Grey Boat is really coming along nicely!!!! Enjoy your break from sanding!!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff! I am looking forward to a small break. :wink:
MrPaul wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:42 pm I'm starting to feel like a slacker. You finished fairing a bigger boat a lot faster than I've done mine. Bad shoulder and all. Looks like I need to pick up the pace.
Ah, It's just that grass is greener thing. :)
I'd truly hoped to have this done by summer but I doubt that is going to happen.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:31 pm
by cape_fisherman
I'm pretty sure I saw pictures where you glassed in the strakes and chine (spray rail). It really helps to fair the hull before adding those pieces. Then you don't have them to work around for the bulk of the fairing.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:15 pm
by Eric1
Spray rails filled. Used left over where it was needed.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:11 am
by Browndog
Looking really good! Are you going to paint the boat before flipping it?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:18 am
by Eric1
Thank You Browndog! Yes I plan to paint before I flip.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:41 pm
by Eric1
Today was a day of sanding. Got both sides sanded out below the trim line.
Also got the spray rail sanded on this side.
Image

Other side, still working the spray rail rail.
Image

Found this left over work from a while back. I'd completely forgotten about it. :lol:
Image

I'll have to mix some more microballoons for this fill. The chine to trim I can use Quick Fair.
I remembered it when I looked out the back door and saw this deviation.

Image
I hope to come fill this in the morning.
Y'all have a great weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:26 pm
by Jeff
Eric, you and your girls have a nice weekend as well!! Glad to see you are back on the boat and it is really looking nice now!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:19 am
by pee wee
Your persistence is paying off, it's getting done! This is a good reminder of how keeping the pressure on, slogging ahead with the part of the process that most people dislike is the quickest way to get it behind and on to the next phase of the build.

That's looking good!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:55 am
by Eric1
Hank, I really appreciate those words. It's true fairing is not a great deal of fun. You just have to get through it. To wit, I finished sanding the starboard spray rail. Then I moved forward to more fill work. I used a total of 6 ounces of fairing mix and applied it as shown. I think I can go to Quick Fair next week. I really won't be sure until I get this sanded out.

Image

Image

Transom transition was still low so I used the leftover mix to fill it one more time.

Image

Image

I'm going to pick up my Beautiful girls and take them to lunch. Y'all enjoy the day!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:38 am
by Eric1
Good Morning Everyone,

I started my day at Lowes for some paint sticks. The guy in the paint department gave my a dozen of the large ones for free! 8)
I was surprised, Your lucky to get the time of day for that anymore. Then I picked up a gallon of Moo Juice for my girls and ran it by the house on the way to the shop. Then I mist sprayed my work surface with water and wiped it down. I'd sponge mopped the entire hull couple days back but there was still some fine dust left on it. I have a fan rigged to blow across the hull while I work so I turned it on to dry out the damp spots. Then I went and made some coffee. I got out the Quick Fair and read the instructions again. Then I covered my scale with a gallon ziplock to keep it clean.

I opened part A first. It looked like "Silly Putty" for those of you old enough to know what that is. Next up was part B, When I opened it there was a yellow oil like liquid on top of the compound. I figure since it has sat over a year this was normal. i spent some time folding and mixing this back in the compound. I scooped out 7 ounces of part A in my weigh boat with the stick I labelled A. Then got out 3 ounces of part B. I stirred the two together until it was streaked looking. I decided to get it out of the container and on to my mortar board. There I finished mixing with a small spatula. That was a lot easier than mixing in the weigh boat.

On to the hull. I decided I'd work the merge surface of the two bottom pieces. As I started I used a 5" spatula to put the quick fair on the boat. Once I had enough down I used a 14" wide piece of G10 fiber glass to smooth over the quick fair. As I went I saw I most of the low areas were from the tape over laps so I continued with the 5" spatula only on that "line". I was not sure how far 10 ounces would, I felt this would give me a better idea.

First impression, WOW this is so much easier and nicer to use than epoxy/balloon mix. It spreads like a thick frosting and is smooth as silk under the spatula. Only near the end did it feel slightly gummy. That said, It probably felt that way as I was using the last remnants from the spatula. I'll come back around 3 pm to see if it has cured. I finished right at 11 am and the shop temperature was 68 degrees. As of now I kinda wished I had started with this stuff. I know it costs a bit more but the way it mixes and if it cures that quickly (4 hour) as opposed to overnight, it is worth every penny.

The goods:
Image

This is how far the batch went. That's about a foot short of the lifting strake.
Image

Well I'm headed to the grocery store for a few things. I'll post later when I check on the cure state. Y'all have a great weekend!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:44 am
by BB Sig
Good work even if you made me feel old with the silly putty comment.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:13 pm
by Fuzz
Eric I am not sure how warm your shop is but temperature will make a huge difference in the cure time. System3 says 4 hours to machine sand if the temp is 77f. My work area is usually around 60f and I find it works best for me to let things set overnight.
I do love the QuickFair. I have found it to be pretty forgiving. I mix by eye, 2 scoops to one scoop, and have not had a problem yet. Most of us put it on way too thick and end up sanding most of it back off. As Cracker Larry says "we are not icing a cake here" I found that to be good advise from "The Man" :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:39 pm
by narfi
One of my son's friends had some silly putty the other day, so it's still around.

I asked him if he knew how to lift comics out of the funny paper with it. He didn't, nor did he know what a funny paper was......

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:44 pm
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:44 am Good work even if you made me feel old with the silly putty comment.
Thank You, Sorry I made you feel that way. I feel old when my kids say "what is silly putty? :lol:
Fuzz wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:13 pm Eric I am not sure how warm your shop is but temperature will make a huge difference in the cure time. System3 says 4 hours to machine sand if the temp is 77f. My work area is usually around 60f and I find it works best for me to let things set overnight.
I do love the QuickFair. I have found it to be pretty forgiving. I mix by eye, 2 scoops to one scoop, and have not had a problem yet. Most of us put it on way too thick and end up sanding most of it back off. As Cracker Larry says "we are not icing a cake here" I found that to be good advise from "The Man" :D
Shop was 70 when I left, I'll check it but I don't think it will be ready to sand today. I did throw it thick in that low line, but I know it needed it. We'll see after I sand. That's why I only did this one batch today. I have no idea of how low these lows are. I miss Cracker Larry a bunch, I hope he gets better soon.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:56 pm
by Eric1
narfi wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:39 pm One of my son's friends had some silly putty the other day, so it's still around.

I asked him if he knew how to lift comics out of the funny paper with it. He didn't, nor did he know what a funny paper was......
That's Exactly what I'm talking about! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:19 pm
by TomW1
Eric sounds like you need to put a guide coat down. Use anything from Krylon fast drying spray paint, I like the bright blue on the purple mix, but black works well on Quik fair, keep the can moving so you only get dots. You can also use graphite spread very lightly, or there is a product on line specifically made for guide coats. Once you put it down sand the hull lightly and you will see the highs and lows very clearly and how deep the lows are. This will prevent you from wasting Quik Fair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:02 pm
by MrPaul
Tom is right. I've wasted a ton of quick fair. I've used over a gallon on my xf 20....so far. If I try to sand too quick when its cooler in my shop it instantly gums up my sand paper even though it feels dry. If it's below 70, i let it sit overnight before sanding it. I really need to get my fairing done quick. Looks like you're about to pass me up.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:52 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:19 pm Eric sounds like you need to put a guide coat down. Use anything from Krylon fast drying spray paint, I like the bright blue on the purple mix, but black works well on Quik fair, keep the can moving so you only get dots. You can also use graphite spread very lightly, or there is a product on line specifically made for guide coats. Once you put it down sand the hull lightly and you will see the highs and lows very clearly and how deep the lows are. This will prevent you from wasting Quik Fair.
Let me get this straight, I put the guide coat on before Quick fair? Then sand?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:03 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
I haven't done a boat yet but have done a few tractors and couple semi cabs and assuming it the same process. I would fill just obvious low spots then light spray of black rattle can to where it looks like confetti or if you have the carbon powder stuff and do a light rub over. When you go over it with your board .repeat this tedious process till it comes out as straight as you like. But I would think you would need to put a thin coat down first since fiberglass is not remotely smooth

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:11 pm
by Eric1
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:03 pm I haven't done a boat yet but have done a few tractors and couple semi cabs and assuming it the same process. I would fill just obvious low spots then light spray of black rattle can to where it looks like confetti or if you have the carbon powder stuff and do a light rub over. When you go over it with your board .repeat this tedious process till it comes out as straight as you like. But I would think you would need to put a thin coat down first since fiberglass is not remotely smooth
Thanks, I think I'm on track. What I filled was clearly low. I plan to do the other side tomorrow. It to has the same obvious lows. Then I'll spot fill the rest of those two surfaces and move on to a guide coat. It's my first boat build so some of this is new to me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:13 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
The left side to me looks a little heavy on auto you would be going for almost see though except for the low spots.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:15 pm
by Eric1
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:13 pm The left side to me looks a little heavy on auto you would be going for almost see though except for the low spots.
I think you may be right. I'll sand it down tomorrow and try to learn from that first coat. I really appreciate all the help.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:14 pm
by Eric1
I managed to get a little done today. I lost a part of an old filling over the weekend. A quick trip to the dentist and $333.00 and I got to work by 11:00.

So, I sanded the Quick Fair out. Unbelievable how easy it is to sand!!! 8O 8)
Makes a heck of a mess though. Whats comes up is almost baby powder.
I'll take that for all the benefits!!
I have some obvious lows, mostly from me putting it on poorly. :lol:
To my surprise it was not applied to thick. Y'all had me kinda concerned I was screwing up but I think it's fine.
I suppose I can see what's needed better than my photos show.

Never the less, I sprayed a guide coat on the work surface. I'm gonna wait until morning before I mess with it.
Should I stick to #80 grit or drop to #120 to kiss sand the guide coat?

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:27 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Looks good to me when I was saying heavy I was just meaning more elbow grease required.lol it looked like some of my work the other guys i worked with filler job looks about like the sanded job couple passes they would be done. So you get to work at 11:00 then lunch and fairing that a long cycle time lol

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:43 pm
by Eric1
Not a normal day, I lost a filling over the weekend. First stop dentist this morning. New Fairing err filling in old tooth, $333.00. I thought quick fair was pricey, Boy Please! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:49 pm
by Jeff
Eric, a filling is never fun!!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:15 am
by TomW1
You can drop to 120 for the rest of you fairing now that you are using Quick Fair or you can stay with the 80 for faster sanding. Your choice is really you. The guide coat looks really good. Just leave it in the lows and go right over it with the Quick Fair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:45 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:15 am You can drop to 120 for the rest of you fairing now that you are using Quick Fair or you can stay with the 80 for faster sanding. Your choice is really you. The guide coat looks really good. Just leave it in the lows and go right over it with the Quick Fair.
You Must have read my mind. I dropped to 120 to knock off the blue paint. I thought I was doing a good job until I saw what the guide coat left behind.
Besides the obvious that guide coat shows the faintest low spots (and there a plenty of them). I'm trying to figure the best way to approach this. I'm thinking fill the larger surfaces with a 5" and 12" spatula, let those spot harden. Then kiss sand those and try to feather in the areas that need a tiny amount. I'm going to try an experiment first. I've taken a strip of counter top material (Formica) and fixed that to my 24" hard foam sanding block with two sided tape. The theory is It will flex enough to fill without overfilling. Since That block is what I'm using to sand with, I thought this approach has some merit. We shall see. I'll post pictures of the test as I go.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:53 pm
by Eric1
Maybe I was not suppose to work on the boat today.
I found out why I had to rush order 2500 lbs of stainless last week. We ran out of a critical size and my supervisor told me all the order up untill then had been delivered. Well I went to place a material order for another 216 bars of 1 5/8" stainless today and the Vendor reminded me I have 80 bars due in monday on a Purchase Order that I show had been delivered. It was supposed to have been here on 2/13/2017 it some how got scheduled for 3/13/2017. That's about $11,000 in raw materials I'm having to adjust.
Then my brother had called an electrician to hang the new outside lights today. I had to stop what I was doing and make 4 custom mount to adapt these to the old hardware. While I'm trying to do that my nephew kept interrupting me until I sent him to the shipping department. I get the brackets made and I told my brother he would have to go to lowes and pick up 8 bolts,nuts and washer to put up the lights. I look up and he sent the electrician home because he was to busy to go to lowes.
So already frustrated from the days events I proceeded to test my idea.
I mixed 5 ounce of Quick Fair. While the theory seemed plausible it yielded frustration.
The formica spatula I made was leaving far to much with moderate pressure. If I applied heavy pressure it was lifting to much up.
I was busy as an eight legged cat after a laxative, trying to cover this up.
I ended up just spot filling the obvious places as not to waste the Quick fair.
Moral of the story...Somedays your are the windsheild, Somedays you are the bug. :roll:
Here is the result:
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:01 pm
by Jeff
Just hope there are more "windshield" days than "bug" days!! Looks really good!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:50 pm
by TomW1
Jeff wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:01 pm Just hope there are more "windshield" days than "bug" days!! Looks really good!! Jeff
Eric I hope your future days are better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:15 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:50 pm
Jeff wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:01 pm Just hope there are more "windshield" days than "bug" days!! Looks really good!! Jeff
Eric I hope your future days are better.
Thank You. Most days are good,Today just got to me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:00 pm
by Fuzz
When I have one of those days I always think back to one of my worst days and compare it to that. 99.9% of the time it doe not even come close so it rates "it is just a thang, from CapeMan" Hard to compete with explosion, fire, and abandon ship :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 am
by bateau-webmaster
Two points on the formica spreader idea. (not a bad idea) depending on the formica thickness, you may want to back it with something thick but flexible. (I'm imagining .5mm formica, like you see on a countertop or so, correct me if I'm wrong here) The other thing is that the formica has a very stiff rigid edge, which you would want to round over a bit, otherwise it will give you those little hard edge lines where the spreader hangs up on any of the surface it catches momentarily and "jumps". Other than that, this looks relatively smooth, but then I can't see the surface too well from the photo.

Sorry to hear about your day of frustration. Need a case of boat building beer for days like those.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:57 pm
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 am Two points on the formica spreader idea. (not a bad idea) depending on the formica thickness, you may want to back it with something thick but flexible. (I'm imagining .5mm formica, like you see on a countertop or so, correct me if I'm wrong here) The other thing is that the formica has a very stiff rigid edge, which you would want to round over a bit, otherwise it will give you those little hard edge lines where the spreader hangs up on any of the surface it catches momentarily and "jumps". Other than that, this looks relatively smooth, but then I can't see the surface too well from the photo.

Sorry to hear about your day of frustration. Need a case of boat building beer for days like those.
Hey Jamie,

Thanks for the input and you are spot on the formica. I think leaving a 3/8" to 1/2' overhang would have netted better results as well.
I did notice the I had a very light streaking effect and rounding the edge would have most likely corrected this.

Today has been much smoother and the cuss factor has been 0% :) :) :)
I sanded what looked terrible to me yesterday and found it was not all that bad. Chaulk it up to my mindset yesterday.
I sanded out the previous fill and took a few photos. I still had some definite lows, some very light lows and pinholes.

Image

This is midway on the boat. You can see the blue guide coat peeking through.
Thank You Tom! I like this technique.

Image

This is where I used the last bit yesterday at the bow.
I basically just knock the highs off as there is plenty of fill left to do.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:26 pm
by Eric1
Trying to figure the best way to apply very light coat(s) of Q.F.. I decided to go back and use these.

Image

I mixed a 30 gram batch (21:9) of quick fair and applied it to the lows.
By using the drywall tools I could fill in the shallowest low spots and pinholes.
I think this is the way to go. Smaller batches and using these to only fill the lows.

Image

Midway where Blue guide was peeking through.

Image

Used the rest here.

Image

I think I'm on track with this stuff now. I have to see the results and modify my approach until I'm happy.
Being my first build there has been a lot of trial, error and correction. It does start to make sense after a bit of that.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:23 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric, looks like a good method!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:23 am
by bateau-webmaster
8) Glad you are getting the hang of it! Just remember that the texture can throw off your eye, and after you have worked yourself till you're blue in the face applying and sanding the quickfair as smooth as you can get it, it will still look like it isn't quite fair in spots, and that's when you want to prime, so that you can see everything in a uniform color, the minor details really pop out at you then, and become easier to touch up with the quickfair.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:09 am
by Eric1
Hey Jamie,
Thanks for the tips! Here is what I discussed on the phone with you.
The goal here is to maximize use of Quick Fair and reduce sanding.
First I measure the distance between the strakes. It was 10.375". Next I cut a piece of 1/16" g10 fiberglass to 3.375 x 10.25".
Image

Next I inverted a sanding block with #220 grit paper and flat sanded the working edge.
Image

After I got a nice flat surface, I beveled the edge at 20 degree or so. I had my friend Marc hole this for the picture. Just overhand the edge around 1/2" hold it down with one have and sand with the other.
Image

I mixed a 60 gram batch of Quick Fair and went to work. First I would spread a line out about a foot or so with a plastic spatula. This kinda lays a base for the g10 spatula. Once the surface is filled with the base coat, the g10 is used to evenly spread the compound into the lows.
Image

To the naked eye this first looks as fair as the second coat did on the last surface. I may have a winner here. We'll see after sanding this out. It is my hope to go directly to the metal spatula technique after sanding this application. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:05 pm
by cape_fisherman
I'm trying to catch up my reading here, but I can't find if you said why you added the strakes before fairing the bottom. Was there a reason for that?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:14 pm
by Eric1
Finished first coat on surface between the strakes. Had a tiny bit left over so I used it on the third surface.

Image

I sprayed a guide coat on opposite side panels. I decided to fair these again. This time with Quick Fair.
The boat doesn't have to be perfect but I have to like what I see.

Image

Image

I'm tired, I'm going home.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:19 pm
by Eric1
cape_fisherman wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:05 pm I'm trying to catch up my reading here, but I can't find if you said why you added the strakes before fairing the bottom. Was there a reason for that?
Yes, I did it because I used foam for the strakes. That had to be covered in fiberglass. It is my understand that you should never glass over fairing compound. I would not do it again.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:34 pm
by cape_fisherman
Gotcha. And thanks for the answer!

If I may make a suggestion...next time fair the entire bottom. The solid surface will be easier to work with. Then you mark your lines for the chines, and grind that area back down to the glass. Install the chines & glass. You still have to fair along the chine/new glass area, but those are pretty straight lines...and the surrounding bottom is already fair.

You're right in that you don't want to glass on top of the fairing compound...but that's why you grind back down to glass in those areas afterward.

Best of luck. Your sweat will pay off in the end!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:38 pm
by Eric1
I promise you I won't make the same mistake twice!! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:03 pm
by Fuzz
Eric I saw you asking about casters on a different thread. for what it is worth with a boat as big as yours I say go big on the casters. After the build you will always come up with another use for them. By big I am talking 8 inch. No less than 6 inch or you will be sorry.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:03 pm Eric I saw you asking about casters on a different thread. for what it is worth with a boat as big as yours I say go big on the casters. After the build you will always come up with another use for them. By big I am talking 8 inch. No less than 6 inch or you will be sorry.
Thanks for the tip Fuzz. I was thinking 4-6 max.
I'm moving this on a concrete shop floor, much smoother and more level than a driveway.

Here is end of the week. From keel to first strake 98% ready for primer. From strake to strake 80% ready in one pass!!
My triceps are tired as all get out so I'm gonna rest up this weekend. Read as "NO SANDING" :lol:

Image

I also sanded the bow section after I sprayed the guide coat yesterday. The paint would sand off as powder but it's loading the sandpaper.
I think I'll pick up a fresh can tomorrow, the can I have is around 2 years old. Plus it takes overnight to cure.

Image

Close up to show how guide coat makes lows jump out at you.

Image

Y'all have a good weekend!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:21 pm
by Jeff
Eric, looks really good!! You and the girls have a nice weekend as well!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:14 pm
by Fuzz
Eric this is the flat I built to build my dory on.Image
Those are 8 inch casters rated for 1600lbs each. Might be a little over kill for the dory but even with my tank sitting on it I can still roll it around by myself without too much effort. I bet there will be times you want to be able to roll yours outside for washing or something and will be real happy if it is easy to roll.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:18 am
by Eric1
Fuzz, You got me convinced. I'll head to Northern today and check them out.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm
by Eric1
Sanded section 2 with #80 grit. Then I filled section 3 and the bow with 180 grams of quick fair. Waited overnight then sanded with #80 grit. I sprayed guide coat Wednesday with fresh can of blue enamel. Same results have to wait a couple of days or the paint loads my sandpaper. :x

Image

I went to work block sanding the opposite side around 10:30. The guide coat clearly shows all the lows. I just wish it cured quicker, I don't like waiting on it. This picture is after sanding and washing the side.

Image

I'm going back to the floor to put Quick Fair on this side. Lots more sanding to come. :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:36 pm
by Jeff
Yes, more sanding to come but look how much you have already done!! Looks nice!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:22 pm
by pee wee
If it's the paint that's too slow to dry, use something else. I've heard of ink being used (not sure what ink or how), graphite powder, they sell lacquer in spray cans and that's quite fast drying . . . there's bound to be a better way than what you're doing.

It does look like the boat's coming along, looks very good so far.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:56 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:36 pm Yes, more sanding to come but look how much you have already done!! Looks nice!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff!
pee wee wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:22 pm If it's the paint that's too slow to dry, use something else. I've heard of ink being used (not sure what ink or how), graphite powder, they sell lacquer in spray cans and that's quite fast drying . . . there's bound to be a better way than what you're doing.

It does look like the boat's coming along, looks very good so far.
Thank You too Hank.
I will try something else, this ain't getting it.

So I planned to work until 3 today. I got another 60 grams of Q.F. applied. I'll come in in the morning to do some more.
I skipped lunch and now I need to eat, getting light headed.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:07 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz, I almost forgot. I decided to go with 8 castors under the strong back. I just think it's too long for only 4 wheels. I went with 4" diameter wheels, load rate is 300 pounds each. I went to the transom and tried lifting the boat up dead lift style. I'm still fairly strong for an Old Fart, I was able to pick the boat up off the strong back with a little effort. So I'm thinking 2400 pounds of support will be enough.
Here are the castor boards:

Image

These are the brackets I made to mount the castors. 1/8" x 1 3/4 angle iron. Securing with 5/16 lag bolts.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:13 pm
by pee wee
Here's the standard guide coat product for auto body finishing: http://3mcollision.com/3m-dry-guide-coa ... 05861.html

I believe it's a powder, they mention "no dry time". It's just one option, but a good one.

Here's a link to an auto body forum where a member describes using it: https://www.autobody101.com/forums/view ... =5&t=17445

I think you can improvise with other products, but it helps to know what is available.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:30 pm
by Eric1
Hank, Big Thank You!! I'm gonna get some on order!! What a blessing!!!!! 8)

I'll have it monday! Thanks again for the research!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:36 pm
by Fuzz
Eric I am sure you went with a good choice. Your strongback/skid has to be really stiff to get away with only four castors. My shop floor is all tapered to flow water to a drain so the more casters the harder it is to keep it level and not have any twist in it.
Boat is coming along nicely. Even if it does not feel like it the fairing will end at some point :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:41 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:36 pm Eric I am sure you went with a good choice. Your strongback/skid has to be really stiff to get away with only four castors. My shop floor is all tapered to flow water to a drain so the more casters the harder it is to keep it level and not have any twist in it.
Boat is coming along nicely. Even if it does not feel like it the fairing will end at some point :lol:
Thank You Fuzz. Our floor has to be pretty flat because of the CNC machines. I look forward to the fairing coming to an end. It's tedious, tiring work. Sometimes feels like I'll never get this boat built. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:50 pm
by TomW1
Yea your using the wrong kind of paint. Krylon fast dry is ready in 15-20 minutes, it is lacquer based. You can't use just anything. What you are ordering is the top of the line of the guide coat materials, not sure it is worth the extra cost but it will sure do the job.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:53 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:50 pm Yea your using the wrong kind of paint. Krylon fast dry is ready in 15-20 minutes, it is lacquer based. You can't use just anything. What you are ordering is the top of the line of the guide coat materials, not sure it is worth the extra cost but it will sure do the job.
Tom, I'll post a photo of what I bought tomorrow. I thought I had bought the right stuff. The can said "dry in 15 minutes" and it is dry to the touch that quick but it is overnight to sand. :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:56 pm
by Fuzz
For me when building a boat it goes like this. At first it seems fast because you can see progress at the end of each day. When you get to the fairing part it just drags because it is hard to see the progress. After the flip things will speed up a bunch. And then for me the final fitting out drags. But as Cracker Larry says one bite at a time and it will all be gone.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:06 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:56 pm For me when building a boat it goes like this. At first it seems fast because you can see progress at the end of each day. When you get to the fairing part it just drags because it is hard to see the progress. After the flip things will speed up a bunch. And then for me the final fitting out drags. But as Cracker Larry says one bite at a time and it will all be gone.
That makes sense. Just hard to see progress while fairing. Rigging? Don't even start with that. I'm thinking of where and how to put everything every night when I get home! So much to consider. Outboard bracket, Gas Tanks, Electronics. Hatches, chase tubes, deck layout... need I go on?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:16 pm
by dbcrx
I prefer the dry guide coat too. It's quick and easy to apply, gives a much fully even coat than a spray can and can be sanded straight away. Here's a link which discusses guide coats with some pick of me using graphite as a cheaper alternative - http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 10#p343128
I haven't used the 3m stuff, but have used another brand name one. It is more expensive, but is darker than the graphite. And a little goes a long way, so I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of a tub.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:31 pm
by Eric1
dbcrx wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:16 pm I prefer the dry guide coat too. It's quick and easy to apply, gives a much fully even coat than a spray can and can be sanded straight away. Here's a link which discusses guide coats with some pick of me using graphite as a cheaper alternative - http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 10#p343128
I haven't used the 3m stuff, but have used another brand name one. It is more expensive, but is darker than the graphite. And a little goes a long way, so I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of a tub.
Thanks Dave, That looks like the trick. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:33 am
by bateau-webmaster
I always thought graphite as a guide coat was a great idea, especially since if you drag it around it spreads further. That and it increases strength within the epoxy instead of being weaker like paint (not that you use much, but still)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:39 am
by cape_fisherman
GUIDE COAT

Next time you do a guide coat take some denatured alcohol and add food coloring to it. Don a pair of gloves, soak a cloth, and wipe the boat down. It's alcohol and will evaporate/dry in no time.

Go ahead and test this now on a small spot on the boat. You'll see how easy it is.

Best of luck to you.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:50 am
by cape_fisherman
The quote below was made by a friend of mine on another fishing forum. In full disclosure, his name is Bill Schwab, and he is an owner at Lightning Yachts located at the Jarrett Bay Marine Industrial Park in Beaufort, North Carolina. Bill is...as we say...THE MAN.

"...food coloring and denatured alcohol wiped on with a rag, cleans and fills pinholes so you can spot them easily, just have to blow off the surface during sanding so any dust filling the holes doesn't hide them."

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:17 am
by jacquesmm
Graphite is what I use. It is also what professional plug builders use and it is used by many auto body shops.

You may wonder why some of my tutorials show spray paint? Simple, we were out of graphite those days and spray paint is a good substitute.

Another good guide coat is alcohol or water with ink. There is a special ink used by pattern makers: Dykem.
Food color sounds like a good idea too but try graphite, it is very fine, show every scratch, no liquid and it is 100% compatible with epoxy.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:57 am
by Eric1
Thank You Everyone for the help!

Tom here is the paint I bought. The "dries in 15 minutes" is what got my attention. It can't be the right stuff.

Image

Here is why I say that. This is after 2 days of cure time. One minute of sanding and my paper looks like this. :x
I'll wait on the 3M stuff to come monday. I'd never use this paint again for this purpose.

Image

So I finished the Quick Fair application from Chine to Trim line. I changed the way I was putting it on. I found it easier to apply it to the surface just under the spray rail first. Then I applied it above the trim line. The bow took a good bit more to fill. There are multiple overlaps of biax just under the spray rail area. I'm pretty happy with where I am.

Image

Time to take the girls out for lunch!!
A Happy Weekend to you all!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:26 pm
by Fuzz
Boat is looking very nice there Eric. Even with the guide coat headaches you are getting there.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:45 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Buddy! heal up and get back to that rebuild! Honey,Lemon and Bourbon.
Honey for antibiotics, Lemon for vitamin C, Bourbon just because Bourbon. You'll feel better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:37 pm
by csotelo
Hey,

It´s looking very good!

I used the spray paint after I saw you doing!

It helped a lot, but the fairing drank some paint and the points where the fairing board just touch it stayed colored.

Regards,

Carlos Sotelo

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:35 pm
by Eric1
csotelo wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:37 pm Hey,

It´s looking very good!

I used the spray paint after I saw you doing!

It helped a lot, but the fairing drank some paint and the points where the fairing board just touch it stayed colored.

Regards,

Carlos Sotelo
I'm happy it is working for you. Thank for the compliment too!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 pm
by Eric1
I was able to get a few hours in after lunch today. I hope I'm not boring y'all with sanding pictures but that's all I'm doing now. Fill,sand,repeat. Anyway I got the first eight feet on the side sanded with 80 grit paper. I'm glad I decided to fill and fair this again. Between the Quick Fair and the blue paint I can clearly see the lows.

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Close up:

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I also sanded the entire bottom half down with 120 grit. I still have work to do here also.

Image

Bow lows reflecting light.

Image

The guide coat powder came in today but I did not get to use it yet.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:05 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
It's looking pretty good to me. How big is you CMM :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:09 pm
by Eric1
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:05 pm It's looking pretty good to me. How big is you CMM :lol:
We own two. Small Brown & Sharp MicroVal and a much larger one in it's own lab.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:38 am
by Eric1
I thought I posted this yesterday but I guess I forgot to submit it.
I spent all of yesterday sanding, First caught up this side panel with 80 grit, then sanded the whole panel with 120 grit.
I was wore out.

Image

Then my brother wanted to show me the way he would fill so I cut him loose!
He seems to think I'm putting it on a bit thin, I don't know. This was another 30 grams.

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First thing today I sanded the second fill out. It looks pretty good. I'm going to spend time with a bright light and do fill work today.

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I'm going to start with this corner transition, Tired of looking at it. I built a dam from G10 and peel ply and got it in place.
I plan to round this but I think this is the easiest way to fill it.

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Dam from back side

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:45 am
by Jeff
Great progress Eric!!! And yes, that is a whole bunch of sanding!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:22 pm
by Eric1
Thanks for the support Jeff! You know I like posting here. The support from the forum is amazing! 8) :D 8)

Ok, I just finished the second fill of Quick Fair. I tried to only apply it to the low spots.
The big picture after another 150 grams.

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Detail of corner fill at transom.

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That's most likely all for today. Oldest daughter is meeting me for lunch then I have to help her get her submission ready for Teen Talent.
She entered photography and it has to be turned in tonight. It has to be printed and in a frame so we have to go get that done.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:20 pm
by Fuzz
You are gaining on it even if it does not feel like it at times. Just keep telling yourself this to will end :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:49 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Eric. While fairing is a PITA what you get out of it is what you put in to it. The more the better. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:20 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:20 pm You are gaining on it even if it does not feel like it at times. Just keep telling yourself this to will end :D
Ok Fuzz I will, but you're responsible. All my Doctor tell me to ignore the voices in my head! :lol:
TomW1 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:49 pm

Looking good Eric. While fairing is a PITA what you get out of it is what you put in to it. The more the better. :D
Thank You too Tom. It is, just so much I can get done in a day. Hey on a Very positive note, After sanding all day yesterday I did not have any rotator cuff pain. Maybe the worst of that is behind me. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:22 pm
by Eric1
Eric1 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:20 pm
Fuzz wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:20 pm You are gaining on it even if it does not feel like it at times. Just keep telling yourself this to will end :D
Ok Fuzz I will, but you're responsible. All my Doctors tell me to ignore the voices in my head! :lol:
TomW1 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:49 pm

Looking good Eric. While fairing is a PITA what you get out of it is what you put in to it. The more the better. :D
Thank You too Tom. It is, just so much I can get done in a day. Hey on a Very positive note, After sanding all day yesterday I did not have any rotator cuff pain. Maybe the worst of that is behind me. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 am
by Eric1
Good Morning Everyone.

I removed the dam at the transom corner. Here are the results.
I still have some fill to do but not much.

Image

Built a bit proud on transom side.

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After second pass of Quick Fair I'm still seeing tiny lows that wont fill well. I think if this is the worst I have I'll move forward to primer.

Image

I'm kinda excited to see what I'll have towards the bow! I think it's looking good. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:03 am
by Jeff
Eric, that looks really good!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:32 pm
by Eric1
Guess what I did today? Sanded the whole side again with 120 grit. I found I still needed to build the transom corner a bit more proud. Also more need at bow and I had a low spot and a tiny hole. I'm pretty sure after this fill this panel will be ready for primer. Hoping to move on.
Another 30 grams mixed and used as shown.

This is on kinda thick, tired of coming up lacking.
Image

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Small low I somehow missed.

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Tiny hole I found.

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After block sanding all week, I think when I finish fairing this boat I'll be able to rip pineapples and coconuts in half.
Pina Coladas all around!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:03 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Looking good better now than when you start priming that will really send you off :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:28 pm
by Huntsabunch
I don't know if it helps but I did almost all of my fairing with drywall tools, using drywall techniques. I squared all of my corners without dams or forms and then sanded a radius on them so they weren't too sharp and fragile. "Feathering" the knife was the key that made it all work. Your boat is a lot bigger and more complicated than mine, especially with the strakes, but if you know a drywall guy I bet he could show you some stuff that would help you out. I also found that, once you get it close to flat and can use 100 grit on your long board, you will be able to see the low spots without a guide. You can then use a drywall knife wider than the low spot to fill it in.

550

553

551

552

746
I think this is your first build and I KNOW it's mine so whoever screws something up first has to give a heads up to the other one. deal?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:42 am
by Eric1
That's a deal!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:04 am
by Huntsabunch
Eric,
When you do finally get ready to prime you might want to check out the "Sealing micro balloons" thread in this index. Some very good info from Seaslug regarding the Awlgrip 545 primer. He says it dries fast and builds quickly which is exactly what you need to eliminate the final few imperfections in your fairing job. It also serves to seal the fairing. I used plain resin to seal mine which is a lot harder to sand than the primer.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:55 am
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:04 am Eric,
When you do finally get ready to prime you might want to check out the "Sealing micro balloons" thread in this index. Some very good info from Seaslug regarding the Awlgrip 545 primer. He says it dries fast and builds quickly which is exactly what you need to eliminate the final few imperfections in your fairing job. It also serves to seal the fairing. I used plain resin to seal mine which is a lot harder to sand than the primer.
I've been reading that thread. There is some good info there. Thank You Again!

Did a little more fill this morning.
This will be where I stop for the weekend. Teen Talent with my girls for church tonight and tomorrow morning. Then going to my Uncle's funeral Saturday afternoon.

This was a 30 gram batch to fill top of strake and some small lows;

Image

Then I mixed a 60 gram batch for the second fill at the bow.

Image

Playing with this idea for paint, except bottom will be black.
I'm Crazy enough to do it too.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:25 am
by Jeff
Good looking shark teeth!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:19 pm
by Huntsabunch
Sorry to hear about the funeral. I've been attending an unusually high number of them lately. by the time I get to mine, I'll be an expert. :)
I've been struggling with which paint scheme to go with also. I want to go darker colors on the hull but everything I read advises against it. Plus I know darker colors really show up imperfections. I may go ahead and flip it after priming and try to finish coat it on blocks later. Gives me a little more time to ponder it. :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:29 am
by TomW1
Eric sorry to hear of your Uncle's passing. God Bless to you and your family.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:33 am
by Eric1
Thanks Tom.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:49 am
by Jeff
Eric, really sorry for your loss!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:38 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Jeff. It was a long day.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:39 pm
by Jeff
Eric, always tough on the family!! Hope the best for you all!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:27 pm
by Eric1
Started work at 1:30. Busy morning in shop. I got more fill work done today. Third fill at bow.
Used 150 grams of Quick Fair today.

Image

Second fill on these surfaces.
Trying to spot fill the lows and not waste the Quick Fair.

Image

Put it down heavier here at transom.

Image

We have a hot streak of weather this week here. It's 77 degrees right now. That's warm for this time of year.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:56 pm
by pee wee
That's going to be a pretty looking hull, good thing you are taking pictures. Such a shame to turn it upside down and hide it in the water! :lol: Seriously, it's looking shapely.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:36 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:56 pm That's going to be a pretty looking hull, good thing you are taking pictures. Such a shame to turn it upside down and hide it in the water! :lol: Seriously, it's looking shapely.
Thank You Hank. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:15 pm
by TomW1
Eric have you checked the bottom of the hull for flatness on the last 6-8' of the planning area. I'm a little late in bringing this up but it is important. Just take a six or eight foot straight edge and run it from the transom forward along the keel line. There should be no big dips or humps along the straight edge lines.

Keep on going your doing great.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:38 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:15 pm Eric have you checked the bottom of the hull for flatness on the last 6-8' of the planning area. I'm a little late in bringing this up but it is important. Just take a six or eight foot straight edge and run it from the transom forward along the keel line. There should be no big dips or humps along the straight edge lines.

Keep on going your doing great.

Tom
Honestly no I have not. I'll take a look in the morning though.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:47 pm
by Browndog
Eric,

Great job on the fairing. I hope to be at that stage in another month. A little bit of Quick Fair goes a long way.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:31 pm
by Fuzz
Eric I saw on another thread you were asking about the notched trowel deal. If it were me I would skip that idea. I tried it twice and ended up sanding the whole mess off. But others might have better luck than me. If you do it I would try it in a small area first JMHO

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:16 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:31 pm Eric I saw on another thread you were asking about the notched trowel deal. If it were me I would skip that idea. I tried it twice and ended up sanding the whole mess off. But others might have better luck than me. If you do it I would try it in a small area first JMHO
Yea Fuzz. I'm way past that plan. I might try it on my next build but I doubt it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:26 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:15 pm Eric have you checked the bottom of the hull for flatness on the last 6-8' of the planning area. I'm a little late in bringing this up but it is important. Just take a six or eight foot straight edge and run it from the transom forward along the keel line. There should be no big dips or humps along the straight edge lines.

Keep on going your doing great.

Tom
Well SH*!!!! :x :x :x :x :x

I ran a straight edge out to around 9'. The small blue marks are at 2".
There are some small gaps 1/16" or so but the first 2' from the transom is showing a gap of around 3/16".
Let me guess, I have to grind the fairing away and build this surface up with glass. I suppose my big butt pushed down on the plywood when I was stitching and laying glass IDK.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:44 am
by Huntsabunch
I don't mean to butt in here but I am interested to know what kind of problem would be created by a dip like the one on Eric's boat. I assume it would be a performance problem but I can't imagine what it would be. I know guys who build strip boats locally who intentionally put a concave in the bottom of their boats (flat bottom). They claim it creates a suction effect that keeps the boat in contact with the water better. What amount out of level would be considered tollerable on a planing hull?
Ken

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:27 am
by jacquesmm
That is due to the thickness of the extra layers of overlap from the transom.
In some boats, including the C21, I add a little bit of a rocker to the plywood, about 1/8" to absorb that but it is almost impossible to see when setting up the plywood.
Ideally, that dip, just in front of the transom tabbing, should be filled with fairing compound at the very beginning of the fairing process.
I disregard a dip of 1/8 or less but you can fill it if you want.
The effect of it on performance is so small that you can ignore it. Imagine that it is like a trim tab down by about 1/8": it does not matter.

You can fill it or you can leave it. It is easy to fill at this stage and I think you will feel better if it is straight but it is not important.

BTW, what Huntsabunch say is correct. Some people build a small "shingle" in there deliberately. It can be seen on some old designs that were under powered, it helps them get on plane faster.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:24 am
by Eric1
Praise God!!! I really didn't want to have to grind fairing compound away and fill this! :D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:06 pm
by TomW1
Eric like I said I was a little late in bringing the subject up and as Jacques pointed out it should be done early in the fairing process. Glad he said not to worry about it as it is a small amount.

Take care the boat's looking good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:43 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:06 pm Eric like I said I was a little late in bringing the subject up and as Jacques pointed out it should be done early in the fairing process. Glad he said not to worry about it as it is a small amount.

Take care the boat's looking good.
I got to tell ya Tom. I got pretty wound up over that 3/16" gap. To a machinist that is a mile! I've been thinking that way over thirty years now. It's hard to adjust to a 1/16 of an inch. It's all good though, Atavan has kicked in. :P

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:47 pm
by Jeff
Glad it worked out for you!!!!! No grinding!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:27 pm
by Browndog
Eric,
It is unlikely caused by you at all. I'm seeing on my build that the panels can dip in between the mold frames due to the weight of the unsupported panel. I've tried to minimize it, but when you flip the boat, my guess is that the dip disappears.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:32 pm
by Eric1
It's been a hectic day. I only managed to get this little bit done.
I started putting Quick Fair on the lower panel. I've used 120 grams but it's not covered yet.
I'm try to go very thin as most of the lows are only as tall as the blue guide coat I had applied.

Image

From the bow.

Image

I'm ready for a strong drink tonight.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:36 pm
by Eric1
Browndog wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:27 pm Eric,
It is unlikely caused by you at all. I'm seeing on my build that the panels can dip in between the mold frames due to the weight of the unsupported panel. I've tried to minimize it, but when you flip the boat, my guess is that the dip disappears.
Hey Browndog,

Go up on the page where Jacques responded. As I have multiple overlaps from the extra layer I added that made it higher than normal. I'm gonna leave it be. I have never been offshore where I didn't have to run trim tabs down anyway.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:45 pm
by Browndog
Eric,

You and me both. Use the trim tabs all the time. It is comforting from Jacques response that it is not a big deal. Thankfully there seems to be some wiggle room in boat building, compared to other forms of construction. Guess that is why I like it so much, don't have to be a brain surgeon. The boat is looking really nice. Can't wait to see her flipped.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:10 pm
by Eric1
Browndog wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:45 pm Eric,

You and me both. Use the trim tabs all the time. It is comforting from Jacques response that it is not a big deal. Thankfully there seems to be some wiggle room in boat building, compared to other forms of construction. Guess that is why I like it so much, don't have to be a brain surgeon. The boat is looking really nice. Can't wait to see her flipped.
Yes Sir Bro! Me too!! I was crapping bricks this morning. Thank You Too.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:48 am
by Eric1
I sanded the transom section, panel seam and bow only as I knew these areas would need more filler.
I'm either getting better at this or I was just lucky.
I only needed 45 more grams of Quick Fair to fill the lows and part of that I used to touch up a couple of places on the upper panel.

Image

Image

Image

I'll start sanding the bottom after lunch.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:23 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:26 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:23 pm Nice Eric!!! Jeff
Thank you Jeff. :)

Spent the afternoon sanding the bottom.
I got decent results, still some spots to fill but not much.
I made it about 16' from transom then I called it a day.

Image

Marking lows with pencil. It helps me remember them.

Image

Image

Going home to grab a shower before Bible study tonight. Y'all have a good evening and I'll see you tomorrow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:07 am
by Eric1
I finished sanding the bow from the second pass of quick fair.
As before I circled the obvious lows with a carpenters pencil. I stumbled on a quick and easy way to "guide coat" the curve.
After sanding with a 16" block with 80 grit, I circled some of the lows with the pencil. Then realized I had not sanded with the 24" 120 grit block.
So I proceeded to sand over the whole surface. That revealed I was sanding away some of the pencil marks. I'm having a little bit of a time trying to see whats fair due to the different colors that blend from sanding quick fair against micro balloons. So I used the pencil to draw kind of an "S" shaped pattern over the bow and sanded again. That revealed a good bit of what I thought was low was already fair. Yes, I was chasing ghosts! Blame my eyes they are as old as the rest of me. LOL It also revealed some lows I thought were already fair.

This picture shows a circled low (sore thumb) and a low that I would have missed. Note the two near vertical lines.

Image

This after sanding the whole bow area

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From the front

Image

The keel line looks like hammered dog poop but I'm going to address that after I get both bottom panels faired.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:17 pm
by Fuzz
Eric it sure sounds to me like you are at the point of needing to roll a thin coat of primer on, imho. That is the only way I can see how close I am. Boat is looking really nice.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:05 pm
by dbcrx
There comes a point when fairing that you need to stop and put some primer on. I agree with fuzz that you seem to be at that point.

When you get down to small spot filling you can end up chasing round the boat again and again trying to fill low spots that may only be there as a result of the last round of sanding. Each batch of filler you do will sand slightly different, especially when you start mixing different materials into the game. You are now sanding fibreglass, microbaloons and quick fair. Even using a sanding block each surface will sand slightly different possibly causing new low spots.

Now would be the time to prime so you have a fresh even coat to see/work with. Apply the primer and then a guide coat. Sand untill the guide coat is gone or you start hitting filler/glass. That will show where you're really at.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:08 pm
by Eric1
dbcrx wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:05 pm There comes a point when fairing that you need to stop and put some primer on. I agree with fuzz that you seem to be at that point.

When you get down to small spot filling you can end up chasing round the boat again and again trying to fill low spots that may only be there as a result of the last round of sanding. Each batch of filler you do will sand slightly different, especially when you start mixing different materials into the game. You are now sanding fibreglass, microbaloons and quick fair. Even using a sanding block each surface will sand slightly different possibly causing new low spots.

Now would be the time to prime so you have a fresh even coat to see/work with. Apply the primer and then a guide coat. Sand untill the guide coat is gone or you start hitting filler/glass. That will show where you're really at.
Thanks Dave and Fuzz. I think y'all are right. I am going to spot the obvious lows and stop.
I will then fill and sand the strakes then move on to primer. I wanted to keep going today but I had to stop around 3.
I was sanding away and ran out of energy. There was nothing in my arms left, I am just flat out tired.
Thanks again for the help, it means a lot to me. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:38 pm
by peter-curacao
LOL told you that what? 1 or 2 weeks ago? 8) 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:46 pm
by Eric1
peter-curacao wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:38 pm LOL told you that what? 1 or 2 weeks ago? 8) 8)
I know. I have a hard head sometimes. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:15 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Agree, you've hit that point. It also makes the rest of the small fairing bits go a lot quicker, and the guide coat stand out better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:53 pm
by Huntsabunch
Looking good Eric. That's a lot of boat to sand. I agree a carpenter pencil is a good way to mark the little spots I'd notice. I also found I could watch the scratch pattern while I sanded. If I thought a place was low, I changed directions with the long board. If a new set of scratches didn't show up in the direction I was sanding I either kept sanding or used the pencil to mark it for filling. It's surprising how shallow of a dip you could detect. Also could tell it was low if the board didn't push all of the dust out of the way as I sanded. I'm going to have to get busy or you're going to pass me. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:37 pm
by Eric1
Sanded previous fill and was still low at bow and the first long panel seam.
Another 60 grams of QF.

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Filled under side of spray rail also, 60 more grams.

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Used another 60 grams to fill these strakes.

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Last was spot filling with the mixes from above.

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I've tried to be as frugal as I can with the Quick Fair, so far this is half of what came with the kit.
I think I've stretched it pretty good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:27 pm
by Jeff
Yes Eric, you have done extremely well with the QuickFair and amount used!!! Have a good evening!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:40 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Jeff, I wasn't sure.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:00 pm
by Fuzz
If it means anything you have used about 10% of what I would have used by now :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:55 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:00 pm If it means anything you have used about 10% of what I would have used by now :D
It does, I didn't have much go compare with. It seems everybody posts a fairing picture one day and the next day is primer. This is time consuming.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:01 am
by Fuzz
No matter who you are fairing takes more time than anything else. And there are many different ways to get it done. Some guys want it perfect, some are good with work boat. Some guys try to use as little as possible fairing compound others lay it on like cake icing. I have never been able to sand the same day so I tend to put too much on so I do not need to come back to the same place three or four days in a row. I am not sure there is an absolute best way to do it. The way that makes you happy is the best way for you.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:21 am
by TomW1
Eric your doing a great job. Don't be afraid to do a guide coat as you get close to the final coat. I will even do one on the first coat of primer since Quick Fair will adhere to the Silver Tip High Build Epoxy Primer. It is just a matter of how perfect you want you want the sides to be. The bottom should be fine by now.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:51 am
by Huntsabunch
I couldn't even tell you how much fairing compound I've used. I know I bought the 2 quart kit of Total Fair, the three pint kit of Quick Fair, a bag of the purple stuff form BB2, and a little bit of West system 410. All of which ended up on the boat. I know my garbage man hates me because every time he dumps the can he gets covered by a cloud of sanding dust. I'm sure we would all be more efficient the second time around but at this point it's a learning process (for us first timers) and I would rather brag about the final results than how little fairing compound I used. Although being able to brag about both would be the real deal. From here it looks like you are doing a great job. Stick with it. Prime time is right around the corner.
Great job with you postings too. Lots of info, lots of pics. And I notice you always clean everything up before taking a pic, making me look like the slob I am. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:07 am
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:51 am I couldn't even tell you how much fairing compound I've used. I know I bought the 2 quart kit of Total Fair, the three pint kit of Quick Fair, a bag of the purple stuff form BB2, and a little bit of West system 410. All of which ended up on the boat. I know my garbage man hates me because every time he dumps the can he gets covered by a cloud of sanding dust. I'm sure we would all be more efficient the second time around but at this point it's a learning process (for us first timers) and I would rather brag about the final results than how little fairing compound I used. Although being able to brag about both would be the real deal. From here it looks like you are doing a great job. Stick with it. Prime time is right around the corner.
Great job with you postings too. Lots of info, lots of pics. And I notice you always clean everything up before taking a pic, making me look like the slob I am. :lol:
Thank You, But I promise I don't clean up every time. :lol: I do run a shop vac with a dry wall bag in it as I sand though. It helps, I create a crap ton of dust!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:30 am
by MrPaul
I used to let it pile up on the shop floor....until the wife got mad after I tracked it into the house.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:39 am
by Browndog
The dust is a real problem. After vacuuming the big piles I open the garage door and blow out as much as I can with a leaf blower. But there is a fine layer of dust pretty much over everything in the garage due to the two kayaks, the canoe and now the FS 19.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:56 am
by Huntsabunch
I have a fine layer of dust that covers the fine layer of dust from the previous project, which covers .... well, you get the picture. My little workshop area is another story. The "dust" from a Bridgeport creates a whole different set of challenges. Especially when mixed with coolant or cutting fluid. Let it be known throughout the land that I am the King of the mess makers! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:22 am
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:56 am The "dust" from a Bridgeport creates a whole different set of challenges. Especially when mixed with coolant or cutting fluid. Let it be known throughout the land that I am the King of the mess makers! :D
Very true! I'm concerned when it's time to prime/paint about the residual oil in the air of my machine shop. I didn't want to build a spray booth just to roll paint but I may have to. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:23 am
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:30 am I used to let it pile up on the shop floor....until the wife got mad after I tracked it into the house.
You know the rules. If Momma ain't Happy, No ones Happy! :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:06 pm
by Eric1
Limited progress today. Started out taking Youngest daughter Judy to DMV for her third attempt at passing her Permit test.
She's really studied hard for this.
Third time is a charm!!

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Very Proud of her. She was so happy she was shaking! :)
Then went to pick up other daughter. We're expecting Very severe weather today. With both them being on spring break I didn't want her home alone.
Weatherman was saying large hail and good conditions for tornadoes so I brought them to work with me. So far so good just thunderstorms.

I started sanding some of yesterdays fill. started on underside of spray rail. This is at transom, looks pretty nice.

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Then moved forward to bow. I found the last four feet is sanding like it did not finish curing. I'm giving it until tomorrow to cure but I have doubts. Quick Fair has not given me any issues so far, I mixed two tiny (15 gram batches yesterday) this was the last one I mixed. I may have botched the mix? :doh: From the paper forward is sanding like hard rubber. I had two batches of micro balloon mix act this way, but they cured out after a couple of days.

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Finally I put down a test batch with left over quick fair from filling the last strake. I used a piece of PVC pipe to pull a fillet. It think it will do just fine.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:11 pm
by Huntsabunch
Eric, have you decided what kind of primer you are going to use?
Ken

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:13 pm
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:11 pm Eric, have you decided what kind of primer you are going to use?
Ken
Yea, I have 2 gallons of System Three that Boat Builder Central sells.
Ken, give me an hour or so. I'm leaving work and I have to pick up some groceries. Didn't want to start a dialogue and you think I was not interested.
Thank Man

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:25 am
by topwater
Looking good :!: I have used both the System Three and the EMC high build primer and like the System Three better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:34 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:25 am Looking good :!: I have used both the System Three and the EMC high build primer and like the System Three better.
Thanks for that. That builds confidence!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:43 am
by Eric1
I checked the Quick Fair I found yesterday. I either screwed the batch up or I may have had some laquer thinner on my hands. It will not set up. :oops:

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Even though this blows like a northeast wind, it has to come off. :oops:

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:46 am
by topwater
Mr Murphy rears his ugly head :(

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:31 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:46 am Mr Murphy rears his ugly head :(
It never fails, Murphy show up with no invite. I kicked him off the boat though.
What was that Kinks song?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://youtu.be/Lqil8_JFCVU

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:52 am
by Huntsabunch
I have a small digital scale (sealed inside a ziplock bag for protection) and mix my quick fair by weight rather than volume. I assume you are doing that since your posts reference the weight of your batches. As long as your calculations are correct your batch will be also. You've got to be pretty good at math because a machinist who is bad math would have a very large scrap pile, and I don't see one of those sitting around your shop. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:01 am
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:52 am I have a small digital scale (sealed inside a ziplock bag for protection) and mix my quick fair by weight rather than volume. I assume you are doing that since your posts reference the weight of your batches. As long as your calculations are correct your batch will be also. You've got to be pretty good at math because a machinist who is bad math would have a very large scrap pile, and I don't see one of those sitting around your shop. :lol:
Yep, doing it the same way. Scrap has to be a minimum in my shop. The cheapest thing I machine in volume is 316 SS (About 2.17 a pound right now). :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:18 am
by Huntsabunch
I try to stick with aluminum, brass, or anything with an "L" in it. Kinda lazy that way. I fish the same way but I'll hunt in any conditions. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
by Eric1
Well I hope I got it mixed correctly this time.

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I also filled the spray rail on the other side at chine.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:59 pm
by Jeff
Eric, looks good and glad you got it fixed!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:02 pm
by Fuzz
Eric be happy that was only a small set back! You could have been like me and had to scrape the entire side :oops:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:24 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:02 pm Eric be happy that was only a small set back! You could have been like me and had to scrape the entire side :oops:
Oh Lord! Yea my Friend, That could not have been fun.

Last bit of work today. I sanded the lower panel again. It's ready for primer now.
Here is the long board transition.

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The bow is also ready for primer.

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Last I was sanding under the spray rail on this side and I'm getting lows. I think tomorrow I'l recoat with QF using the PVC pipe trick.
I used my thumb to apply it the first time. I though tit was gonna work. Maybe I'm being to picky, It's my nature.
Here is what I'm talking about, you can see a beige color under the PVC pipe that needs to be filled.

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Considering this mornings set back and a 75 mile round trip to pick up plating for the machine shop I think today was productive. Tomorrow will bring more sanding and filling, I'm getting used to it. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:48 am
by Eric1
Well I didn't get much done on the boat yesterday. I went in late around 8:30 and an old friend surprised me with a visit. We talked and caught up until 11 or so. :D My Brother and I had two guys working overtime so we took every one out for lunch. When we got back I placed my weekly tool orders and material orders. Then I wrote 3 mill programs and loaded them in the machine. That took me until 2:30. I decided to sand on the boat at that point, I got the spray rail sanded (the side I had to re-work). then I started on the strakes on the bottom. I got about four feet of that done and my stupid shoulder started hurting. I've learned not to push through this pain, it just makes it worse. Heck it's 5:45 am as I write this and it's still jolting me now and then. No picture this go around. I'm gonna spend the day with my girls, book shopping Barnes & Noble, pick up some sushi supplies and get my car washed.
Y'all have a blessed weekend and have some fun.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:37 am
by Jeff
Eric, have a good weekend with your girls!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:35 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Buddy!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:18 pm
by Eric1
Jacques,

This is a picture of the gap at the transom form all the over lapped glass. This is at the centerline of keel, it's about 3/16 inch.
Should I fill this with biaxial cloth and fair it with Quick Fair?

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:09 pm
by fishgitr
I would fill it with biaxial as much as you can then fair it. I noticed on my build that I filled some low spots about 3/16 low with quikfair on my deck and I realized today that I have some spider cracking going on.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:06 am
by Fuzz
If you fill the low with biax/epoxy at least you get something out of it. ie a tougher bottom and that is never a bad thing :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:00 am
by Eric1
Eric1 wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:18 pm Jacques,

This is a picture of the gap at the transom from all the over lapped glass. This is at the centerline of keel, it's about 3/16 inch.
Should I fill this with biaxial cloth and fair it with Quick Fair?

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:12 am
by Huntsabunch
If the gap along the keel is a result of extra layers of glass at the transom, won't you have the same situation all the way to the chine? If so, won't you have to fill most of the bottom on both sides of the keel to make it perfect? I can't see where 3/16" over a 20' distance would have a dramatic effect on performance but, then again, we already know that I'm lost in the woods when it comes to boat building. :?
If I was going to fill a large area by that amount I think I would fill and level it most of the way with fairing compound then cover it with a light weight woven cloth. That should protect from checking and the fine weave is easier to fair out. Full disclosure: this advice is more "experiment" than "experience". :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:49 am
by Eric1
Huntsabunch wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:12 am If the gap along the keel is a result of extra layers of glass at the transom, won't you have the same situation all the way to the chine? If so, won't you have to fill most of the bottom on both sides of the keel to make it perfect? I can't see where 3/16" over a 20' distance would have a dramatic effect on performance but, then again, we already know that I'm lost in the woods when it comes to boat building. :?
If I was going to fill a large area by that amount I think I would fill and level it most of the way with fairing compound then cover it with a light weight woven cloth. That should protect from checking and the fine weave is easier to fair out. Full disclosure: this advice is more "experiment" than "experience". :)
Yes It has a good bit of layers at chine as well. Picture the transom to bottom intersection. This has the pronounced build up of fiberglass down 4-6" from that edge going down the transom. My concern is that when I mount the outboard bracket it will cause issues. I am thinking I could use a piece of 1/4" thick rubber sheet as a gasket and around each bolt hole cut holes for a 2-2 1/2" aluminum washer to keep the bracket parrelel to the plan of the transom. I'll wait for Jacques to advise here. No hurries, I have plenty to do. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 am
by jacquesmm
That happens often there. 3/16 is not too bad but you can fill it.
Use whatever leftover glass you have to get closer and finish with Quickfair

If you leave it as is, you will probably never feel the difference. That little hook will make you loose half a knot, maybe.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:56 am
by Eric1
jacquesmm wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 am That happens often there. 3/16 is not too bad but you can fill it.
Use whatever leftover glass you have to get closer and finish with Quickfair

If you leave it as is, you will probably never feel the difference. That little hook will make you loose half a knot, maybe.
Half a knot does not deem that much work. I leave it as is.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:21 am
by Eric1
I got a little bit done yesterday afternoon and this morning. I pulled fillets on the strakes and finish the spray rail. Other than that just spot filled some small holes. I finished the stainless plate job yesterday and my wrist is sore from tightening the vise on the machine, so no sanding today. :| I woke up at 0330 this morning with it throbbing, took a couple of advil and ran the hot water out in the shower on it. Went and made coffee, took a couple of swigs and fell asleep in my computer chair. My daughters woke me up getting ready for school.
Any way the goal is to have the first half of the boat ready for primer by Saturday.

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Spray rails:

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Back side

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:09 pm
by Jeff
Very well done Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:28 pm
by Fuzz
Eric your work is always neat and clean. Mine never looks that good, I rely heavily on the sander the clean up my mess. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:05 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:28 pm Eric your work is always neat and clean. Mine never looks that good, I rely heavily on the sander the clean up my mess. :roll:
Jeff wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:09 pm Very well done Eric!! Jeff
Thanks guys. I'm at home with ice on my wrist now. I can't pick up my coffee cup with my right hand.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:22 pm
by Jeff
Eric, be careful and take care of that wrist!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:23 pm
by Jeff
Eric, be careful and take care of that wrist!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:30 pm
by Fuzz
I swear any boat builder over 30 needs to find a young, strong, not too bright, minim wage fellow to do the sanding. That would make boat building much more fun. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:59 pm
by MrPaul
Ain't that the truth. Everything about building my boat has been fun except for the coat of dust on EVERYTHING in my shop. Sanding is for the birds.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:38 pm
by csotelo
Looks good man!

In my opinion fairing is the hardest part. After it, everything looks easy! You are almost there!!

Cheers!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:37 pm
by Eric1
Thank You!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:38 am
by Fuzz
Eric get all healed up and take care of yourself. This is not a speed contest. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:36 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:38 am Eric get all healed up and take care of yourself. This is not a speed contest. :wink:
Thanks Bro,
I saw this last night but I was hurting so bad I didn't want to type reply.
I am able to make a half fist today so the swelling is slowly going down.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:42 am
by Eric1
I got back to sanding today. The wrist is still a little sore but manageable. Of course Murphy had to show up. I found an air pocket while sanding one of the lifting strakes. I'll open this up and fill it this afternoon. :x
The last couple of weeks have been frustrating. All the rain we've had has the rivers muddy and flowing fast so trout season has been a no go for the most part. Then the wrist injury brought everything to a stop. For me this is almost unbearable. I can't stand sitting still for long. So I've read, watched TV (Lord help me) and thought way to much about how I want to finish the boat. I will be thankful when the fairing is done and I can move on, don't get me wrong, but I am happy to be doing something again.

Here is the hole.

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I finished sanding the strakes on this side this morning.

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And the Spray rail too.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:09 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Making progress, injuries aside. Just don't hurt yourself more, to get the boat done, else you won't be able to drive it. I admit I'm eager to see that thing in paint, but not if it means surgery.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:12 pm
by Fuzz
What Jamie said :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:55 pm
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:09 pm Making progress, injuries aside. Just don't hurt yourself more, to get the boat done, else you won't be able to drive it. I admit I'm eager to see that thing in paint, but not if it means surgery.
Fuzz wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:12 pm What Jamie said :D
Thank You and you are both correct!
I'm not going at it full speed. I just filled that hole and three spots I wasn't quite happy about. I used the rest on the opposite side at transom. That's it for today. I'm not wanting the wrist to swell up again. What ever i did to cause it I don't want to repeat. It takes a lot to put tears in my eye and that's how most of last week was by 10 pm.

Low spots behind strakes filled.

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Lows under spray rail. I thought this was filled but I didn't like it.

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Leftover of a 30 grams batch. By putting it here I have to stop today. I built in this "safety" because I know my nature. :lol:

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I do have a question. When I was fairing the bottom, I stood on tables. In doing so my shoes have left a "scuff line" on the side panels I'n about to start fairing. Is it alright to use Dawn detergent to wash this off? I'm concerned with oil from my shoes being on the hull.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:11 pm
by Jeff
Eric, if you don't hear back from a more experienced builder than me tonight, I will get Jamie to respond to you tomorrow. I think the use of Dawn is fine!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:29 pm
by TomW1
Dawn works fine. Used it when I rebuilt our Mirror Dingy. Just rinse if off well of course.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:09 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:29 pm Dawn works fine. Used it when I rebuilt our Mirror Dingy. Just rinse if off well of course.
Thanks Tom.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:31 am
by Jeff
Eric, glad Tom got back to you!! Dawn always does a great job!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:56 am
by Eric1
Here is a picture of the smudge my shoes left. It's the dark line about six inches under the trim line. First thing today I'll be scrubbing this off.

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Feeling pretty good today!! The Shifting of the tables! 4/26/2017
The hull is halfway faired!!

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Superfluous Glamour shot! There should be pipes and drums playing. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:30 am
by Jeff
Your hull is really looking very good!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:26 pm
by csotelo
Hey Eric,

Good the hear your wrist is better and you are back to the build!

The boat is looking really good!

Congrats!

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:30 pm
by Fuzz
Treat each step as a milestone. You are getting there. Boat is looking really nice.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:53 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Jeff, Carlos and Fuzz. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:02 pm
by Jeff
Eric, How did the Dawn work for you today? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:05 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:02 pm Eric, How did the Dawn work for you today? Jeff
It did well, easily lifted all that crap off the side. I just lightly scrubbed it with a scotchbrite pad and rinsed.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:20 pm
by Jeff
Good Eric!!! Glad it worked well!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:14 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Looking good

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:00 pm
by Eric1
Thank You!


Didn't get much done today busy with day job. I had a quote package to get out. I sanded the Quick fair I put on yesterday. This is just the first pass on areas I know need a heavy application.

Image

Image

If the front moving over me doesn't flood the river, I'll be trout fishing in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:08 pm
by Fuzz
Good luck fishing! Take pictures :D
Be good to take a break you have been hitting that thing pretty hot and heavy.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:55 pm
by Eric1
Pretty strange day. I went to the shop with the intent of getting some boat work done. I ended up getting busy with the day job. Ordering steel,tools etc., Monday order are always rush items. Happy for the Blessing of work but man I'm covered up. I did get a little done on the boat, just putting Quick Fair on the second side. I get home and in the mail I received my tax return from 2012! Some how my wife passing away confused the IRS. :| Of course they didn't bother paying interest or penalties to me. :x
Oh well, I turn on the news and see that a cousin by marriage has been charged with murder. He had posted a Harley on Craig's list, a guy shows up and asked to test drive it. He took off and never came back. Well my cousin found him,calls the sheriff and while he's waiting for them, the guys tries to take off on the bike. My cousin ran over him and drug him several hundred feet, killing him. 8O He also had his infant baby in his truck at the time. I wish he'd have thought of that baby and not killed the guy. Just a rotten shame. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Here are boat pictures. Just don't seem important.
390 grams of compound used.
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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:17 pm
by glossieblack
Awful story. Keep your chin up. Boat looking good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:29 pm
by Jeff
Eric, how terrible!!! I just hope it gets better for the (your) family. Just horrible!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Boat building is great therapy for life's trials. Terrible story, sad to hear it.
Nice looking work, I really like the hull shape as well.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:15 pm
by Fuzz
Family problems are always the worst. Sorry to hear of them for you. Nothing like sanding to take your mind off of stuff. But then again that might not be so good for the wrist.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:28 pm
by Eric1
Thanks everyone for the kindness. Fuzz the wrist is doing good and building has helped a lot, keeping my mind occupied. Just so much has happened in the last four years. I am just floored tonight. All I can think about is the eight year old boy I met and how his life has come to this. One moment of anger and such a price has been paid by both him and the thief. Such a waste of life.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:54 pm
by TomW1
Eric my thoughts are with you. May God bless your cousin in law and hope that all will go well for him. God bless.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:50 am
by cape man
My OD 18 was pure therapy at a time I needed it. Sucks about your Cousin's husband. Hope they are lenient with him.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:50 pm
by csotelo
Hey Eric,

Sorry about your cousin in law.

This is the third time I mess with boats and nothing like do it to clean your mind! Every hour in boat building recharges my batteries days of work!

Regards,

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:29 pm
by Eric1
I got back to work on the boat today. I finished applying quick Fair to the second side of the bottom and I got about halfway up the second side panel.
I have not been sleeping good because my neck muscle have been tight as a banjo string. Work and Family issues have taken a toll on my nerves. :(
I needed to go trout fishing this morning but it was pointless due to all the rain last night. Any way here is where the build is at present.

I've lost track of how much Q.F. I've used to cover the bottom.
Image

I got 180 grams applied to the side panel.
Image

Maybe tomorrow I can come get the rest of the side panel covered.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:12 pm
by Eric1
I came in and finished putting Q.F. on the side. I used another 150 grams. I'm getting low on the 1st kit I bought. I guess I used a little over 3/4 of it so far. I'm glad I bought a second kit. :wink:

Image

I thought I'd start sanding the bottom, start was all it was meant to be. I'm having to sit and twist my body to reach it and my neck muscles said no way.
I only got this far, maybe two feet or so.

Image

I'm heading to the house to clean up. Y'all have a great weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:30 pm
by Fuzz
Eric the boat is looking good. Sorry your body is not as good as the boats :lol: How does the air sander work for you?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 5:15 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 3:30 pm Eric the boat is looking good. Sorry your body is not as good as the boats :lol: How does the air sander work for you?
Thanks Bro, I wish I held up better too. :lol: I really like this tool a lot. It is well worth the money spent for it. I'm playing with design idea to make a flexible base for it to work over compound curves. Foe now I just hit though areas to knock off the heavy stuff and hand block them.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:21 pm
by Eric1
Delete this

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:22 pm
by Eric1
Eric1 wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 5:15 pm
Fuzz wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 3:30 pm Eric the boat is looking good. Sorry your body is not as good as the boats :lol: How does the air sander work for you?
Thanks Bro, I wish I held up better too. :lol: I really like this tool a lot. It is well worth the money spent for it. I'm playing with design idea to make a flexible base for it to work over compound curves. For now I just hit the rough areas to knock off the heavy stuff and hand block them.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:35 pm
by Eric1
I've been busy today. Finally got my banking done, got the car washed and a haircut. Busted butt and sanded the second half of the bottom too!!!
I'm Very happy with the results. I only have some small places to fill and I don't think the bow will need as much work as the first side did. :D 8)

Image

From the Bow.

Image

Close up of low spots on the Bow curve.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:13 pm
by Fuzz
Dang man, that thing has got to be getting close to primer time :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:21 pm
by Jeff
Eric, agree with Fuzz, she is getting really close to prime and paint!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:41 pm
by Eric1
Jeff and Fuzz, I can see light at the end of the tunnel! I'm getting excited thinking about it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:48 pm
by csotelo
Hey Eric,

I know the feeling!

She is smooth, even shine under lights!! Nice work!

Congrats,

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:39 pm
by Fuzz
Remember the first coat of primer will show little flaws. That is good as once you can see them you can fix them. But then again you just might not have any :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:24 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon May 08, 2017 10:39 pm Remember the first coat of primer will show little flaws. That is good as once you can see them you can fix them. But then again you just might not have any :D
I'm sure there are places I'll have to attend to. The question is how fair is fair? :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:42 pm
by TomW1
Hi Eric, don't forget to put on a guide coat after maybe your second round of fairing before sanding this will show your highs and lows.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:33 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Tue May 09, 2017 12:42 pm Hi Eric, don't forget to put on a guide coat after maybe your second round of fairing before sanding this will show your highs and lows.

That is the plan. I tested that 3m guide coat on the bow yesterday. It makes it pop out at you and there is no wait time. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:11 pm
by Eric1
I decided to come to the shop and work on the boat for a little bit. I put on a second batch of Quick Fair.
It was mostly spot filling and filling the keel. I used 90 more grams. It was a couple of hours at a leisurely pace, my knees are tired from the river yesterday.

View from the table:

Image

From the Bow.

Image

Hope you all are having a great weekend. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:16 pm
by bateau-webmaster
She's looking smoother than a baby's butt Eric. When you gonna prime that beast 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:18 pm
by bateau-webmaster
I'm betting this guy's gonna bust out the laser level on us, and sweep for lows with it :p

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:28 pm
by Jaysen
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 1:18 pm I'm betting this guy's gonna bust out the laser level on us, and sweep for lows with it :p
Industrial 3D scanner. Input data to surface modeler. Modeler creates map to modified 3 axis CNC. Map includes tool switching to "ez fair" and adequate waits for curing. There is another customization to the CNC, "micro fairing board" that uses tunneling electron microscope to ensure leveling at the molecular level.

Then he will give it a third pass just to make sure.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:33 pm
by bateau-webmaster
I'm lovin it. I do have plans to one day build a "fairing drone" something along those lines :P

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:37 pm
by Jaysen
3D printer for complete (and safe) hull.

There has to be something viable there.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:40 pm
by Fuzz
You come up with something to do the fairing and you will be a zillionair in short order :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:46 pm
by bateau-webmaster
I hope so! That's definitely on my bucket list.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:28 pm
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 1:16 pm She's looking smoother than a baby's butt Eric. When you gonna prime that beast 8)
Jamie I still have the lower third of the bottom to touch up and the entire other side to do. I've been really busy in the shop lately so I squeeze in what I can.I'm thinking June for primer.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:29 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 1:28 pm
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 1:18 pm I'm betting this guy's gonna bust out the laser level on us, and sweep for lows with it :p
Industrial 3D scanner. Input data to surface modeler. Modeler creates map to modified 3 axis CNC. Map includes tool switching to "ez fair" and adequate waits for curing. There is another customization to the CNC, "micro fairing board" that uses tunneling electron microscope to ensure leveling at the molecular level.

Then he will give it a third pass just to make sure.
You are crazy! LOL!!! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:30 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Sounds good Eric, don't want you to think I'm rushing you! You do good work.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:32 pm
by Eric1
Not at all Jamie and thank you.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:10 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
They just don't understand our type Eric lol 1/64 might as well be a mile to us.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:39 pm
by Jaysen
I'm with you guys. I'm just forcing myself to get used to thinking of building a boat like welding jeep bumpers. And based on the amount of sandpaper I've consumed I'm getting the message :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:36 am
by bateau-webmaster
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Sat May 13, 2017 3:10 pm They just don't understand our type Eric lol 1/64 might as well be a mile to us.
I understand the Machinist mindset. I'm just not the type to fair a boat to perfection. Anything I build you can expect a workboat finish on, unless I have a whole bunch of free labor, (or unless I plan on building anything to sell). In fact I've given a lot of thought toward justifying leaving the glass weave proud over the entire surface of the boat, because it might be a benefit, hydrodynamically (fish scales create tiny vortices that reduce drag).

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:28 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Oh great now another thing we might take to extremes I hadn't thought about the drag coefficient until now . :lol: you may have triggered an idea I might have to try on a kayak.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:04 pm
by pee wee
How long would it take to carve fish scales all over a C21? :help:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:26 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 4:04 pm How long would it take to carve fish scales all over a C21? :help:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay Longer than this old fart will give it. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:44 pm
by Fuzz
Quick, prime and graphite that thing before you get any ideas :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:27 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 6:44 pm Quick, prime and graphite that thing before you get any ideas :lol:
I'm trying! :lol: I got a little done today but not much. I spent most of the day putting out fires in the machine shop and dealing with a couple of bone head engineers in Europe.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:30 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Don't succumb to peer pressure :wink:
Prime when it's time.
Nice work :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:41 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 7:30 pm Don't succumb to peer pressure :wink:
Prime when it's time.
Nice work :D
Thanks Richard! They're just busting chops, I think. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:30 pm
by Fuzz
Us...........now would we do something like that :roll:

You have a ton more discipline than me. I can only stand it for so long and then I have to move on. And that is why I will never build a work of art like some of these guys. Well that and a major lack of talent :cry:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:28 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 10:30 pm Us...........now would we do something like that :roll:

You have a ton more discipline than me. I can only stand it for so long and then I have to move on. And that is why I will never build a work of art like some of these guys. Well that and a major lack of talent :cry:
Yes Y'all would!!! :D That's the nature of friends!

Not buying the second part. You have done a crap load of great work on the Sintas rebuild! For what is worth there are times I have had enough of boat work too. In my part of the country trout season is over pretty quick. They are stocking the river this week and I'm saving some knees for friday's trip to catch some. I can't hunt deer anymore because my body won't let me put the time in the woods to be successful. Duck hunting is a distant dream now, but I can sure go fishing! Yea Bero, Sometimes the boat has to wait.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:12 pm
by Eric1
Well it's been a while but I got back to work on the build today.
I got two sections sanded today and the bow form. All of which still needs filling.
This is as far as I got and the left knee got wobbly So That's enough today.

Image

Found an area full of pin holes. Wish I knew the cause, these can be a pain to fill.

Image

More lows, Most of what I'm seeing is from my crappy spatula work. I could do better feathering these in I think.

Image

The Bow on this side is filling differently than the first. I have more lows after 2 passes but they are not as deep.
I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Image

Just a dumb question I think I know the answer to. Should I sand a radius along the keel for the epoxy/graphite coating?
I'm thinking I should, maybe 1/2" or so.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:51 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Your boat looks great Eric.
I would sand a little radius on the keel. I believe slightly radiused edges tend to be tougher to chip than sharp edges.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:01 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 7:51 pm Your boat looks great Eric.
I would sand a little radius on the keel. I believe slightly radiused edges tend to be tougher to chip than sharp edges.
Thank You Richard.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:28 pm
by Fuzz
Boats looks great Eric. Is it starting to feel like it is 50 foot long yet :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:47 pm
by glossieblack
Nice work Eric. You're almost out of the fairing doldrums. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:43 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 9:28 pm Boats looks great Eric. Is it starting to feel like it is 50 foot long yet :lol:
Thank You Fuzz. Yea at least 50 foot long. :lol:
glossieblack wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 10:47 pm Nice work Eric. You're almost out of the fairing doldrums. :D

Thank You too Glossieblack. I'm ready for it to end. It's 3:30 pm as I write this and I'm worn out from the day already.
I finished the third bottom panel first thing this morning. Then I vacuumed and washed the bottom again. After that Io mixed 30 grams of QF and put it on the bow. That took me until 11:45 so my Brother and I headed to lunch. After lunch I mixed another 30 grams and spot filled the bottom. It went pretty far as most of the lows were light, Some were just textures I didn't like.

Here are the pictures, The fat old fart is finished today.

Image

Spot fill on bottom.

Image

Torture devices...Not really but I'm feeling it today.
This was where I stopped. All in all a pretty good day's work.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:56 pm
by Jeff
Eric, I agree, it looks like the fairing and sanding is almost over for you!!! The boat looks great!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:00 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 3:56 pm Eric, I agree, it looks like the fairing and sanding is almost over for you!!! The boat looks great!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:18 pm
by Fuzz
I got good news and bad news. The outside fairing is almost done. Before you know it you will be done with this one, a little time will pass, and then you will be wanting to build another one. Sort of like a woman having babies :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:40 pm
by Jaysen
Oh god! It's been 9mo that I've been gestating mine. Literally. Fuzz may be evil.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:23 am
by Browndog
Looking good. This is probably the only time that anyone will be looking at the bottom as carefully as you are. Don't to be too hard on yourself. A few coats of Epoxy Graphite can do wonders to a boat bottom!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:49 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 10:18 pm I got good news and bad news. The outside fairing is almost done. Before you know it you will be done with this one, a little time will pass, and then you will be wanting to build another one. Sort of like a woman having babies :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I already have the plans!
Jaysen wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 10:40 pm Oh god! It's been 9mo that I've been gestating mine. Literally. Fuzz may be evil.
Nah, Not evil he just knows your ways. 8O
Browndog wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:23 am Looking good. This is probably the only time that anyone will be looking at the bottom as carefully as you are. Don't to be too hard on yourself. A few coats of Epoxy Graphite can do wonders to a boat bottom!
Man I hope you are right, I feel bad knowing there are small spots I'm trusting the graphite will cover. I mean three coats of the stuff should cover something. Right?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:40 am
by cvincent
Looking good Eric. Fairing to me is the most difficult part of building these boats.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:20 pm
by Eric1
cvincent wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:40 am Looking good Eric. Fairing to me is the most difficult part of building these boats.
Thank You and I agree, Fairing is tedious.

End of the day post.
I sanded the second side from chine to trim line. This is what I have after the first coat of Quick Fair.

Image


I am pleased with it. Here is the bow up close. It's better than expected.

Image

Here is the worst of it, but I expected this much. It's where I joined the ply to make a long panel.

Image

All in all. A good days work. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:18 am
by TomW1
Man that is a big boat Eric. Glad your doing the fairing and not me. :lol:

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:33 am
by glossieblack
Very nice work Eric. I admire your skill and tenacity. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:01 am
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:33 am Very nice work Eric. I admire your skill and tenacity. 8)
Thank You Glossieblack. I consider that a Big Compliment having watched your build! :D
TomW1 wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:18 am Man that is a big boat Eric. Glad your doing the fairing and not me. :lol:

Tom
Yes it is! Trust me, After a day of block sanding your hands feel like stone. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:09 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Damn nice, I really like the way the foam strakes are turning out, especially at the ends.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:27 pm
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:09 pm Damn nice, I really like the way the foam strakes are turning out, especially at the ends.
Thank you Jamie!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:02 pm
by Eric1
Today was another day of block sanding. The bottom and the upper side panel have been sanded again.
I've only found a few lows that need another bit of Quick Fair as shown below.
I'll fill these in the morning when I start to fill the strakes.

Side panel near bow
Image

Bottom on bow opposite side.
Image


It's been a long road to get to this point but I have just little to do before priming and painting.
My check list.

1. Fair last two strakes.
2. Dam and fill upper side panel to transom.
3. Fillet the strakes.
4. Fillet the last spray rail rail and fair.
5. Fair the last side panel.
6. Fair the transom again.
7. Mount castors
8. Wash and prep for primer

Last item for today, My daughter Judy has reached a big day in her life! Today is her 16th Birthday!!! :D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:01 pm
by MrPaul
Congrats on your daughter's 16th. She'll be wanting to drive in no time.

Those little pencil circles look really familiar. I'm at that stage too. Circle the deep spots, fill, sand, find more deep spots, repeat. I can't wait until I can't find any more deep spots.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:26 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:01 pm Congrats on your daughter's 16th. She'll be wanting to drive in no time.

Those little pencil circles look really familiar. I'm at that stage too. Circle the deep spots, fill, sand, find more deep spots, repeat. I can't wait until I can't find any more deep spots.
Thank You!
She is driving with me already. I gotta say she doing well.
I'm with you on fairing, happy it's almost done.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:34 pm
by Jeff
Eric, your boat is looking great!!! Almost there!! And congrats to both you and your daughter on her 16th birthday!! That is a big day---start of some real independence!! Let me look your order over in the morning and I will call you to discuss how many rollers!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:21 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Very nice work Eric! Do you use flexible sanding sponges to sand the fine contours?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:21 pm Very nice work Eric! Do you use flexible sanding sponges to sand the fine contours?
Thank You,
I did today, I tried one on the keel after blocking with 80 and 120. I want to say it was 150 but I can't recall. It made the surface slick as goose poop.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:00 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:21 pm Very nice work Eric! Do you use flexible sanding sponges to sand the fine contours?
Thank You,
I did today, I tried one on the keel after blocking with 80 and 120. I want to say it was 150 but I can't recall. It made the surface slick as goose poop.
Great! We buy them by the thousand, was going to offer to send you some if you didn't have a supply.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:53 pm
by csotelo
The to do list is getting short, almost there Eric!

Congrats to your daughter on her birthday!!

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:56 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:00 pm
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:21 pm Very nice work Eric! Do you use flexible sanding sponges to sand the fine contours?
Thank You,
I did today, I tried one on the keel after blocking with 80 and 120. I want to say it was 150 but I can't recall. It made the surface slick as goose poop.
Great! We buy them by the thousand, was going to offer to send you some if you didn't have a supply.
Thank You Very Much!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:57 pm
by Eric1
csotelo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:53 pm The to do list is getting short, almost there Eric!

Congrats to your daughter on her birthday!!

Carlos
Thank You Carlos!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:38 pm
by Eric1
I worked some yesterday and most of today. A little bit of sanding but mostly filling.
See changes to the check list. :)

1. Fair last two strakes. Filled
2. Dam and fill upper side panel to transom. Filled and Sanded, needs another pass.
3. Fillet the strakes.
4. Fillet the last spray rail and fair. Filled
5. Fair the last side panel.
6. Fair the transom again.
7. Mount castors
8. Wash and prep for primer

Side to Transom

Image

Fillet on underside of first spray rail.

Image

Last two strakes are filled.

Image

Pulled fillet on top of spray rail #2.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:52 pm
by Jeff
Eric, looks great!!! Your order shipped today. Should have the UPS tracking numbers by 5:00 PM!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:12 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Buddy. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:50 pm
by Fuzz
You must have that thing smooth as a babies butt by now :D Great job spending the time to get it right.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:41 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:50 pm You must have that thing smooth as a babies butt by now :D Great job spending the time to get it right.
Thank You Fuzz, :) It's only slick as 120 grit paper will go. After fairing everything with the 120 I plan to go to my 5" Random Orbital sander with 220 all over the boat. Just a light kiss to smooth it. I may go to a soft sponge block for this as I don't want to have any dig marks from the sander. One slip with the RO would cause a problem. I try to keep Murphy away with forward thinking.


Today's update:

1. Fair last two strakes. Filled
2. Dam and fill upper side panel to transom. Filled and Sanded, needs another pass.
3. Fillet the strakes.
XXX 4. Fillet the last spray rail and fair. Filled, Complete!! XXX
5. Fair the last side panel.
6. Fair the transom again.
7. Mount castors
8. Wash and prep for primer

Spray Rail #1

Image

#2

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:43 pm
by Fuzz
Lord knows I am lousy at finish work but isn't there a point where you can get things too smooth for the paint to adhere well to?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looking good Eric :D I admire your attention to detail on such a big boat!
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:43 pm Lord knows I am lousy at finish work but isn't there a point where you can get things too smooth for the paint to adhere well to?
You are correct, you can get the fairing too slick for the primer to adhere to.
System 3 recommends 150 grit as the final prep for primer.
I use either 120 or 150 grit paper. 220 is too fine, especially if it has been on the RO a little too long...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:26 pm
by Jaysen
Then my 20' 60gr workboat finish will never peel ;-)

I may be losing my mind, but from 60 to 100 on the RO the difference was minimal. I did take a swipe or 50 with 220 and that was noticeable. Keep in mind I'm talkin fairing/straight epoxy not finish layers. In finish layers EVERY step up was noticeable.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:27 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm Looking good Eric :D I admire your attention to detail on such a big boat!
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:43 pm Lord knows I am lousy at finish work but isn't there a point where you can get things too smooth for the paint to adhere well to?
You are correct, you can get the fairing too slick for the primer to adhere to.
System 3 recommends 150 grit as the final prep for primer.
I use either 120 or 150 grit paper. 220 is too fine, especially if it has been on the RO a little too long...
Thank You so much! I'm glad you have posted about the 150 grit. I tried to find what System three required and never saw it.
You may well have saved me a disaster.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:46 pm
by Aripeka Angler
You're welcome. Here is a screen shot of the sanding requirements for S3 primer. All other primers have similar specs...

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:00 pm
by Eric1
Jamie emailed that to me and completely missed it. In my defense I have machine down and it's all I've dealt with today. Less than 3k hours and the transmission has failed. Never the less, Thank You again.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:16 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I hear you, I had a cnc saw down on Monday.
Glad to help, looking forward to your primer photos 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:32 pm
by csotelo
Looking good, Eric!

Once you got the primer, open the can and stir it. Mine (Interlux) is so thick, even after I thin it as recommended that covered all marks of 60gr sanding in the first coat. It can save a good time and don´t compromise the results.

Regards,

Carlos.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:50 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:16 pm I hear you, I had a cnc saw down on Monday.
Glad to help, looking forward to your primer photos 8)
Just ridiculous what repair costs on CNCs. The transmission will run me 14,555.00 and the spindle rebuild was 8,800.00. :x

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 pm
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:50 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:16 pm I hear you, I had a cnc saw down on Monday.
Glad to help, looking forward to your primer photos 8)
Just ridiculous what repair costs on CNCs. The transmission will run me 14,555.00 and the spindle rebuild was 8,800.00. :x
Those home made $500 units seem a bit more attractive now? :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:06 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 pm
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:50 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:16 pm I hear you, I had a cnc saw down on Monday.
Glad to help, looking forward to your primer photos 8)
Just ridiculous what repair costs on CNCs. The transmission will run me 14,555.00 and the spindle rebuild was 8,800.00. :x
Those home made $500 units seem a bit more attractive now? :D
Not really, not for what I do with a CNC. :lol: You would have to see one of these running a 2 1/2" indexable drill at 14" a minute in Stainless to understand. The CNC you are talking about would not be accurate enough either.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:08 pm
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:06 pm Not really, not for what I do with a CNC. You would have to see one of these running a 2 1/2" indexable drill at 14" a minute in Stainless to understand. The CNC you are talking about would not be accurate enough either.
yeah, you are way to big. But it sure would be nice if you could DIY something that would work...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:10 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:08 pm
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:06 pm Not really, not for what I do with a CNC. You would have to see one of these running a 2 1/2" indexable drill at 14" a minute in Stainless to understand. The CNC you are talking about would not be accurate enough either.
yeah, you are way to big. But it sure would be nice if you could DIY something that would work...
Dang sure would!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:45 pm
by Eric1
csotelo wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:32 pm Looking good, Eric!

Once you got the primer, open the can and stir it. Mine (Interlux) is so thick, even after I thin it as recommended that covered all marks of 60gr sanding in the first coat. It can save a good time and don´t compromise the results.

Regards,

Carlos.
Thank you Carlos! I plan to take my primer to Lowes and ask them to mix my primer up too.


End of the day report.

XXX 1. Fair last two strakes. Filled Complete! XXX
2. Dam and fill upper side panel to transom. Filled and Sanded, needs another pass.
3. Fillet the strakes.
4. Fair the last side panel.
5. Fair the transom again.
6. Mount castors
7. Wash and prep for primer

Strakes from transom

Image

Image

Image

Tomorrow's plan is to pull fillets on the strakes and start filling the last side panel. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:52 pm
by Jeff
Eric, That is going to be one slick boat!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:55 pm
by Eric1
Thanks buddy! By the way I got my shipment in today! Thank Y'all, As always very fast delivery!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:54 pm
by glossieblack
Does the shipment include primer? I'm sure looking forward to seeing her primed. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:14 pm
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:54 pm Does the shipment include primer? I'm sure looking forward to seeing her primed. :D
No, I've had the primer a while. It was silica,graphite and some 3/8 Nap rollers and frames.
I hope to need all of this by the end of the month!!! :D :D :D
The rollers look to be top notch!! I still plan to run them over some duct tape though.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:27 am
by Fuzz
Hate to hear about the CNC break down and its costs. That would put a serious damper on the boat building budget :cry:
On the up side you have a whole bunch of folks eagerly looking forward to primer pictures.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:01 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:27 am Hate to hear about the CNC break down and its costs. That would put a serious damper on the boat building budget :cry:
On the up side you have a whole bunch of folks eagerly looking forward to primer pictures.
Thank You Buddy. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:32 pm
by Eric1
Today has gone as planned other than a few interruptions from salesmen. I pulled fillets on the strakes, put a second coat on the side/transom corner and washed the lower side panel and started filling it. After I used 90 grams of Quick Fair I emptied that container and opened a new bucket. I have to say that first kit went a lot further than I thought it would!

Today's report.

1. Side panel to transom. Filled and Sanded,second coat applied.
XXX 2. Fillet the strakes. Completed XXX
3. Fair the last side panel. Started, finish filling tomorrow!
4. Fair the transom again.
5. Mount castors
6. Wash and prep for primer

Fillets:

Image

Image

Started last side panel.

Image

Tomorrow morning sand fillets while it's cool. The shop hit 86 degrees around 3:30 today and the rest of the week is supposed to be even hotter.
Then continue to fill the side.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:41 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looks great! Very nice looking fillets.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:09 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:41 pm Looks great! Very nice looking fillets.
Thank You Richard. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:20 pm
by Eric1
Not a great day of boat building. I've felt like mud all day, just no energy. I managed to sand the fillets on the strakes.\
I found an air pocket in the process. It's been repaired but that it. I'm going home to rest.

Today.

1. Side panel to transom. Filled and Sanded,second coat applied.
2. Fair the last side panel. Continue tomorrow
3. Fair the transom again.
4. Mount castors
5. Wash and prep for primer

Fillets

Image

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:46 pm
by Jeff
I hope you feel better tomorrow!! Boat is looking good regardless!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:03 pm
by Eric1
I'm try to get some work done but I had spend the morning at the doctors office.
I may have an ulcer, going for ultra sound tomorrow. Doc said it could be liver or gall bladder also.
I've spent the last five day days feeling like I've been kicked in the stomach.
I have most of the last side panel filled. I have a little bit left to go. Saving it for first light before ultra sound.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:15 pm
by cape man
Good luck at the Doc!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm
by Eric1
cape man wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:15 pm Good luck at the Doc!
Thank You Kindly

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:50 pm
by Jeff
Eric, take care of yourself as an ulcer can be ugly and painful for a while!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:06 pm
by Fuzz
Reading your symptoms and the tests needed my thought was sounds a little bit preggers to me :lol:
Hope the Docs get you fixed up. I am really enjoying your build.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:10 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:06 pm Reading your symptoms and the tests needed my thought was sounds a little bit preggers to me :lol:
Hope the Docs get you fixed up. I am really enjoying your build.
Dammit Boy! That's funny!! :lol:
Thanks

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:49 am
by Aripeka Angler
Eric, it was nice talking to you the other day.
Your boat is looking great! That is a big rascal to fair!
Hope all goes well for you with your health.
Take care.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:01 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:49 am Eric, it was nice talking to you the other day.
Your boat is looking great! That is a big rascal to fair!
Hope all goes well for you with your health.
Take care.
Thank You Richard.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 pm
by Eric1
Well Guys, I started meds for ulcers yesterday and I can already feel a change for the good. Now it just feel like a kid is punching my stomach. :lol:
You're gonna love this Fuzz. The woman that did my ultra sound was pregnant!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
She had a great sense of humor too. She dimmed the lights and put that warm jelly on my gut and I said, Dim lights, pretty girl,warm jelly...What could go wrong? She cut loose laughing!!! I also asked if she saw an alien trying to eat it way out? She said, "I can't diagnose but nothing is jumping out at me.
Results monday.

Then I came in and sanded about half of the side panel and I sanded the bow just to knock off the highs. Then I filled the remaining area and the bow again. I moved back and started filling the transom too.

Bow second fill.

Image

Sanded this far..

Image

Transom first pass, Blue line is the lower limit of the lowest surface. From there down is a relatively flat plane.


Image


1. Fair the last side panel. Halfway there
2. Fair the transom again. Started today
3. Mount castors
4. Wash and prep for primer

That's it for today. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
by Eric1
I heard from the Doctor before I left the shop. I got the results from my ultrasound. Doctor said, my gall bladder is normal and my liver is normal. The ulcer meds are working, I'm not hurting near as badly as I was. So she thinks it's an ulcer. I have to cut citrus out of my diet for three months and take this medicine for three months. She told me if I'll listen to her and do what she asked it will go away.
Thanks again to every for the kind thoughts.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:44 pm
by BB Sig
Good to hear! My wife complains when I joke with medical people. I work in a clinic around them all day...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 pm
by Fuzz
Eric1 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 pm Well Guys, I started meds for ulcers yesterday and I can already feel a change for the good. Now it just feel like a kid is punching my stomach. :lol:
You're gonna love this Fuzz. The woman that did my ultra sound was pregnant!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
She had a great sense of humor too. She dimmed the lights and put that warm jelly on my gut and I said, Dim lights, pretty girl,warm jelly...What could go wrong? She cut loose laughing!!!
Well you had me rolling with that one :lol:
It is good to hear it is something that can be fixed and maybe with not too much trouble.

Speaking of nurses a few years back I had my dad in the emergency room. They had him all hooked up and every 15 minutes the machine would pump up and take his blood pressure. It was normal, 130/80, pretty good for 80 something. Pretty nurse comes in to check him out and while they are chatting the machine pumps up again. She says boy you are in good shape for your age. I look at the BP numbers and just start rolling. They look at me like I am crazy when I say "happy Too" BP 150/90 pretty girls effect men of all ages :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:58 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 pm
Eric1 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 pm Well Guys, I started meds for ulcers yesterday and I can already feel a change for the good. Now it just feel like a kid is punching my stomach. :lol:
You're gonna love this Fuzz. The woman that did my ultra sound was pregnant!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
She had a great sense of humor too. She dimmed the lights and put that warm jelly on my gut and I said, Dim lights, pretty girl,warm jelly...What could go wrong? She cut loose laughing!!!
Well you had me rolling with that one :lol:
It is good to hear it is something that can be fixed and maybe with not too much trouble.

Speaking of nurses a few years back I had my dad in the emergency room. They had him all hooked up and every 15 minutes the machine would pump up and take his blood pressure. It was normal, 130/80, pretty good for 80 something. Pretty nurse comes in to check him out and while they are chatting the machine pumps up again. She says boy you are in good shape for your age. I look at the BP numbers and just start rolling. They look at me like I am crazy when I say "happy Too" BP 150/90 pretty girls effect men of all ages :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:12 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Great to hear you are on the mend :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:05 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:12 pm Great to hear you are on the mend :D
Thank You Richard! I hope this mornings fishing was fun!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:14 pm
by Jeff
Sounds like the meds must be working for you!! Glad it is Eric!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:41 pm
by Eric1
I worked this morning, finished sanding the side panel. I tried letting the foam block follow the radius of the bow and only open up a buttload of pinholes.
I sanded the first fill on the transom build up. It came out pretty good. Next I filled the port and starboard side to transom corners. Then I filled the transom low area again. I think once I block the transom after this I can fair it the rest of the way.

Here is the last side panel finished.

Image

Starboard corner.

Image

Port corner.

Image

Second fill on Transom, 90 grams of Q.F.

Image

Opened a can of @#%$ :oops: , I will go back over this with Q.F. and sand with 120 grit max.
The 80 will be to aggressive.

Image

This is looking down at the trim line. I've done the best I could to keep this a sharp clean line but I'm not happy with it.
The first thing I'm gonna try is to tape it off and fill with epoxy or epoxy and a little silica as it will want to run towards the bow.
If that doesn't get it my next plan is to pull a radius of Quick Fair and sand it like those mother loving strakes.

Image

Well I'm off to the grocery store and to cook hot dog chili for church tomorrow. They want to cook hamburgers and hot dogs for Father's day.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:44 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:14 pm Sounds like the meds must be working for you!! Glad it is Eric!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:48 pm
by Browndog
Looking good! I found a few small bad spots now that I'm putting on the paint. Hard to find them all.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 pm
by Eric1
I spent a couple of hours on the boat today. Most of my time was on shop business.

I filled the pin holes on the bow.

Image

Then I free hand built up this edge.

Image

I used a dam on this side.

Image

I sanded the second fill on the transom and I have it ready for final pass.

Image

I used the left over mix to touch up about a dozen places I was not happy with.
Of course after I took the pictures and had used all I had mixed I saw a huge low in the picture above where I had just filled. :lol:

Image

Tomorrow morning while it's still cool I'll sand and fill some more. We seem to be in a Florida weather pattern. Humid and hot all day then a thunderstorm in the late afternoon.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:12 pm
by Jeff
Hey, what about the results from the doc? Call me tomorrow when you have time!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:13 pm
by Eric1
After filling in the transom twice below the tape lines I felt comfortable enough to cover it in one complete layer of Quick Fair.
We'll see what it brings.

Another boring fairing picture

Image

I'm slight ahead of my end of the month plan. :D
1. Fair the transom again. Last major fill complete
2. Mount castors
3. Wash and prep for primer

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:09 pm
by cape man
Never have I spent the time and effort you are. Looks awesome.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:41 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Nice looking work Eric! I'm getting additional motivation to soldier on with fairing by looking at your photos.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:55 pm
by Eric1
cape man wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:09 pm Never have I spent the time and effort you are. Looks awesome.
Thank You!!
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:41 pm Nice looking work Eric! I'm getting additional motivation to soldier on with fairing by looking at your photos.
Thank You too! I glad it's giving you motivation! So many times I've poured into the forum and just admired all the work I've seen. I've watched every video on YouTube I could find on Bateau builds. I too have found much inspiration from what others have done. Most of y'all make this look easy. It's such a different world than what I'm used too but I like this world. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:59 am
by glossieblack
I agree with Cape Man and Richard. Lovely work. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:28 am
by Eric1
Thank You GlossieBlack!

I got here around 7:30, had some coffee and started sanding.
The transom is faired in pretty well, but I have some small pockets of fill work to do.
After fairing the corners are low again so I have more work to do there. I'm going to pickup some Dykem after lunch and spray a guide coat.
Then hit it with 120 grit on a block and go from there.

Current status:

Image

Shallow angle view:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:41 am
by Jeff
Eric, again, that is going to be one slick hull!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:45 am
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:41 am Eric, again, that is going to be one slick hull!!! Jeff
Probably seems Crazy to get it this slick just to paint it flat Haze Gray but That's what I'm doing.
I never said I was "right" in the head. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am
by Reid
Looking good Eric!!!

I was sanding/fairing the FS18 yesterday and will be back at it today. Every time I get tired of sanding I think to myself: "WWED - What Would Eric DO!!"

Reid

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:10 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Reid wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am Looking good Eric!!!

I was sanding/fairing the FS18 yesterday and will be back at it today. Every time I get tired of sanding I think to myself: "WWED - What Would Eric DO!!"

Reid
:lol: First Build, and he's taking from the most meticulous Fairer I've seen on the board 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:03 pm
by pee wee
It may not be nice to pigeon-hole anybody, but every machinist I have known likes to take things down to insane levels of accuracy compared to mere mortals (I mean in addition to their work, of course). It's both a point of pride and a curse, I guess. No two ways about it, though, you're doing a great job.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:56 pm
by Eric1
Reid wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am Looking good Eric!!!

I was sanding/fairing the FS18 yesterday and will be back at it today. Every time I get tired of sanding I think to myself: "WWED - What Would Eric DO!!"

Reid
You saw me admit I'm not right didn't you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:58 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:03 pm It may not be nice to pigeon-hole anybody, but every machinist I have known likes to take things down to insane levels of accuracy compared to mere mortals (I mean in addition to their work, of course). It's both a point of pride and a curse, I guess. No two ways about it, though, you're doing a great job.
Thank you Pee Wee. You're dead right about machinists! We are an odd lot.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 pm
by Eric1
I came back from lunch and applied a guide coat of Dykem. So far I like this better than anything else for a guide coat. It dries in seconds and does not load your sandpaper!! I paid about $17.00 for a spray can of the stuff. That cheaper than the graphite powder I bought. This is all I will use from now on.
Perfect now that I'm about finished fairing!!! :lol:

Blue dots of Dykem, I almost forgot to take a picture.

Image

Worst two lows.

Image

Near upper left on transom.

Image

This is on the side I used the dam on. I'll open these a little with a pencil grinder so I don't trap air again.

Image

Just left of centerline.

Image

Lower right side.

Image

Right side edge. This is the side I free handed. Dam will go on in the morning, I'm tired of messing around with it.

Image



Summary of today:

Transom air sanded with 80 grit on air file.
Sanded again with 16" hard foam block 80 grit.
Guide coat applied and sanded a third time with 16" hard foam and 120 grit.
The Fat Boy is done for the day!
I'm gonna pick up some chicken chow mein on the way home and do a whole lot of nothing tonight. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:16 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Best way to spend an evening. Build's coming along good! Not many people really take the time to go for the level of detail, and smoothness you are going for. But as they say, if you are going to do something, take the time to do it right.

Can't wait to see what you wind up doing for the deck/sole. This build thread hasn't disappointed me yet.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:28 pm
by Eric1
I love the feel of teak on my bare feet but another part of my body says it will cost to much!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:52 pm
by Browndog
Way to go Eric. The sanding and fairing and guide coating and resanding is a major pain in the rump. But your boat will be the better for it. Now that I've painted mine and can see all of the little flaws, I wish I had taken even more time fairing everything.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:17 am
by Fuzz
Eric I think it would be better to set that junky thing aside. I will haul it off for you this fall :D Least I can do for a buddy :lol: :lol:
I am sure it is really going to shine when you do paint it :!:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:01 am
by Eric1
Browndog wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:52 pm Way to go Eric. The sanding and fairing and guide coating and resanding is a major pain in the rump. But your boat will be the better for it. Now that I've painted mine and can see all of the little flaws, I wish I had taken even more time fairing everything.
Thanks for the motivation. I hope my paint looks as good as your. You've built a beautiful boat so far! :)
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:17 am Eric I think it would be better to set that junky thing aside. I will haul it off for you this fall :D Least I can do for a buddy :lol: :lol:
I am sure it is really going to shine when you do paint it :!:
I'm still not sure if I will come to the meet. Ten hours of driving for me. I stand stand to fly anymore, all the HS bullcrap sucks.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:57 am
by Eric1
Good Morning,

First thing I did was set up a dam on the port side edge. Then I ground out the pin holes with a pencil grinder. Glad I did this two of the hole opened further to expose a bigger void. Mixed 30 grams of quick fair and went to work.

Image

Filled small lows

Image

Pin holes filled

Image

Earlier I'd mentioned I needed to dress the trim line. I'd thought about taping it up and applying thickened epoxy to do this.
I think the lazy side of me got to make the call this morning. I thought that is a crap ton of work and I doubt it will yield better results than working with quick fair. So I'm just pulling a fillet with my finger and I think it is going to look pretty good. I plan to use a soft foam sanding pad to finish these.

Image

Well, Back to the fillets...to be continued....

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:21 pm
by Eric1
Everything has been sanded. Two more minor places have been filled.

Fillet in trim line sanded.

Image

Last Item for today:

Image

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

https://youtu.be/BT1ircqQklo

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I'll add a smiley :D
Congratulations on a job well done 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:23 pm
by TomW1
HIP, HIP, HORRAY :D :D :D :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:29 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Y'all!! It feels really great to have gotten this done!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:42 pm
by narfi
Woop Woop!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:59 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!! It has taken a while but you are finally there!!!! Congrats friend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:11 pm
by seaslug
I think you missed a spot a couple of inches off your left elbow! Only kidding. You probably did a more thorough fairing job than all of the builders on this sight, past, present, and future, and from your photo, you don't even look completely crazy! Ok, maybe a little crazy. I just hope that after you put primer on it you cannot find a single tiny little blemish. You deserve to move directly to finish painting, and I and everyone else can't wait to see it with the topcoat finished. Great job all around, and have enjoyed the build all the way through. Mike

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:50 pm
by Eric1
Narfi,Jeff and Mike, Thank y'all!!! :D :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:33 pm
by Fuzz
Late to the party but I offer my congratulations also. I am sure you are the happiest of us all :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:51 pm
by glossieblack
One contended looking Eric! Congratulations. :D

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 am
by csotelo
It was tough, but you did it!!

Congratulations my friend! Excellent job!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:49 am
by Browndog
Awesome!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:40 am
by BB Sig
Congratulations. :D

Now let's see how picky you are with priming and painting! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:59 am
by topwater
About time you stopped rubbing that boat and put some primer on . You are just going to make the rest of us look bad :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:12 am
by bateau-webmaster
Awesome! can't wait to see what the primer reveals (mirror finish most like)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:13 am
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:40 am Congratulations. :D

Now let's see how picky you are with priming and painting! :lol:
I'm gonna try my best not to be to critical. I'm getting tired.
topwater wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:59 am You are just going to make the rest of us look bad :lol:
Nope, I've seen the builds. I doubt I'll make anyone look bad.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:38 am
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:13 am Nope, I've seen the builds. I doubt I'll make anyone look bad.
Unless you literally start shooting your hull with bird shot, Lil Bit's work boat finish will be far far below your finish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:04 pm
by Eric1
Alright I'm ready for Monday! Castors are mounted and I can push her around with my finger tips!
I have a bad case of glass itch. Amazing how much sanding dust gets under the boat. :lol:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:45 pm
by Fuzz
You made me feel bad looking at how clean your work area is. I went out and spent 2 hours with the shop vac cleaning my shop. I know it had to have done some good but another 48 hours would not hurt :help:
Say what you want but I am not buying you will slack off on the finish work at this point. You spent way too much time doing the fairing for that to happen.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:56 pm
by glossieblack
Enjoy priming her Eric. You're about to be rewarded for making her fair. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:33 am
by dalnilo
Congratulations you did a good job. keep it up.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:23 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Great job and I'm with Fuzz no way you'll slack off now lol if you like me it would bug you till you fix it anyway. Fuzz are we sure he is the one that cleaned it up (poke poke) hey since you have a long cycle time can you clean this up for me real quick

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:48 pm
by Eric1
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:23 pm Great job and I'm with Fuzz no way you'll slack off now lol if you like me it would bug you till you fix it anyway. Fuzz are we sure he is the one that cleaned it up (poke poke) hey since you have a long cycle time can you clean this up for me real quick
LOL It was me, The crew is off on fridays. Just management and QC work fridays.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:51 am
by Eric1
Field Day. Getting the work area cleaned up so I can prime and paint. Don't know when I can get the primer on though. Both of my girls start driving school tomorrow so I have to be limo driver.

Picture for Fuzz. :lol:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:18 pm
by Jeff
Great shop Eric, How many square feet? Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:28 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:18 pm Great shop Eric, How many square feet? Jeff
Thanks, It's 15,000 .

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:02 pm
by Jeff
Really nice!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:36 pm
by Eric1
Shop pictures

This is a launch rail I made for rockets up to 500 lbs. The C Clamp was for mock up. This shows the front of the shop a little better.
I don't fly much anymore.

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:54 pm
by Jeff
Eric, you are now building and deploying ROCKETS in your machine shop?? Again, really nice shop!! Love those CNC machines!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:02 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:54 pm Eric, you are now building and deploying ROCKETS in your machine shop?? Again, really nice shop!! Love those CNC machines!! Jeff
Not since I started building a boat. I took a break from that hobby.

This is my L3 Certification flight.
https://youtu.be/uH9_hXvFRTU

By the way how many coats of primer do you guys use?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:54 pm
by MrPaul
If I worked in your shop I'd never get anything done. You've got too many cool toys there.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:59 pm
by Jeff
Wow, that is a real rocket!!!! Great flight Eric!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:00 pm
by csotelo
Really cool rocket!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:59 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Nice shop! It's way cleaner than mine :D The rocket is too cool!
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:02 pm
By the way how many coats of primer do you guys use?
It depends.

Scenario 1) If your fairing is perfect, roll on a coat of primer. When the primer is dry to the touch, put on another coat without sanding. At this point, I would let the primer dry completely overnight and lightly sand. Roll on a final coat or two of primer and let it dry. Lightly sand and you are ready for paint. I have alway gave the final coat of primer a week to dry before paint.

Scenario 2) If you are not satisfied with the first prime coat, (pinholes, etc) you may have to do touch up filling and sanding between coats. Let the each coat of primer dry completely before touching up defects with fairing compound. At this point, it takes as many coats as it takes to get happy...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:42 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:59 pm Nice shop! It's way cleaner than mine :D The rocket is too cool!
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:02 pm
By the way how many coats of primer do you guys use?
It depends.

Scenario 1) If your fairing is perfect, roll on a coat of primer. When the primer is dry to the touch, put on another coat without sanding. At this point, I would let the primer dry completely overnight and lightly sand. Roll on a final coat or two of primer and let it dry. Lightly sand and you are ready for paint. I have alway gave the final coat of primer a week to dry before paint.

Scenario 2) If you are not satisfied with the first prime coat, (pinholes, etc) you may have to do touch up filling and sanding between coats. Let the each coat of primer dry completely before touching up defects with fairing compound. At this point, it takes as many coats as it takes to get happy...
Thank You! I was thinking along these lines, but I wanted to run it by you guys on the forum. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:29 pm
by Aripeka Angler
You're welcome.
Make sure to clean the boat very well before the first coat of primer and after each round of sanding.
For the first wipe down, I use clean lint free rags with water to remove the dust and finish with denatured alcohol soaked rags.
I'm excited to see your boat in primer :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:39 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:29 pm You're welcome.
Make sure to clean the boat very well before the first coat of primer and after each round of sanding.
For the first wipe down, I use clean lint free rags with water to remove the dust and finish with denatured alcohol soaked rags.
I'm excited to see your boat in primer :D
I'm excited too! After I drop off my girls in the morning, I'm rolling her outside for a wash down with Dawn detergent. I hope to remove any oil from the machine shop. Day of primer I will go with denatured alcohol an hour or so before before rolling. I'm hoping to find paint strainers at Walmart tomorrow. We had a PPG Paint store but it closed down three years ago. I hate that too, they all the supplies you needed to paint cars etc. I may have go for a drive tomorrow and go on the hunt. I'm searching the net for something nearby.

Edit, found one in Greenville, about a 30 minute drive. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:26 am
by Fuzz
So now you are mopping the dang floor :?: You are nuts :!:
Ok so prime till you are happy..............what is the over/under? I am putting my bet on 7 coats. :lol:

Need to talk to the BBC folks. There needs to be two classes of builder threads. One for normal folks and one for the truly over the top nuts :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:11 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:26 am So now you are mopping the dang floor :?: You are nuts :!:
Ok so prime till you are happy..............what is the over/under? I am putting my bet on 7 coats. :lol:

Need to talk to the BBC folks. There needs to be two classes of builder threads. One for normal folks and one for the truly over the top nuts :D
1. In fairness, the floor had not been mopped in two years. :P

2. I know. :lol:

3. Only seven? You under estimate the nature of my condition!! Don't feel bad, So do the Doctors! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:47 am
by glossieblack
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:59 pm
Scenario 1) If your fairing is perfect, roll on a coat of primer. When the primer is dry to the touch, put on another coat without sanding. At this point, I would let the primer dry completely overnight and lightly sand. Roll on a final coat or two of primer and let it dry. Lightly sand and you are ready for paint. I have alway gave the final coat of primer a week to dry before paint.

Scenario 2) If you are not satisfied with the first prime coat, (pinholes, etc) you may have to do touch up filling and sanding between coats. Let the each coat of primer dry completely before touching up defects with fairing compound. At this point, it takes as many coats as it takes to get happy...
Eric, If any builder is going to pull of Scenario 1, it will be you. Good luck!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:35 am
by TomW1
Last chance to check your fairing two coats of primer and then another guide coat!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:41 am
by bateau-webmaster
Wow, Forgot all about the Bad Azz Rocketry thing. I remembered you using an E-mail address with that name for your plans order. That is just plain Awesome. Your shop looks like it has damn near everything! I can hardly imagine the trouble I would get into in a shop like that.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:43 am
by Eric1
Thanks Glossieblack, Tom and Jamie!
Yes Jamie, It is easy to get into trouble with the tools on hand. You would not believe some of the things I've been ask to make and modify.
As far as the rocketry thing, I used to monitor where all the website hits came from. You would be surprised to have seen all the hits from Iran,Afghanistan etc. I had messages from people there wanting me to teach them how to make rocket fuel. HE!! NO!

So The guys in the shop helped me roll the boat outside for a wash down.
Here is a picture of Ray Next to the boat.

Image

From the field behind the shop.

Image

After washing I found some pin hole on the bottom to fill.

Image

Both spray rails had pin holes too. I pretty much had to fill the entire port spray rail.
I just did't see these when the boat was inside. Sunlight made all this jump out at me.

Image

All of that and a bit more has been filled and I'll sand it this afternoon.
I left the boat outside so the quick fair will be cured. I'm picking up the kids at 2:30 so it will be after that.

That's all from this Fairly Mad Boatman. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:58 pm
by Fuzz
Get the hull outside and somebody standing next to it and the size really stands out. The is a big hull you have there :!:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:13 pm
by Eric1
That's a friend and employee, Ray. He's a bit over 6' tall. So, I have sanded all the places I filled this morning. Right after I rinse it off again a mocking bird flies over the boat and drops a load on it out of my reach, of course. I wait for the water to dry and we get it back in the shop. Ol' Ray says, "I can reach it do you want me to get it off?" I said, Sure. He reaches up, wipes it gently off then brushes the rag quickly sling the bird poop back into my face. :roll: What could I do, That's the worst part of my day. Heck, I had to laugh.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:16 pm
by Fuzz
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:53 am
by Eric1
Rough morning, Up early with a bad headache. Took shower,made coffee took a three sips and fell asleep at the computer. I'm just now headed to the shop to prime the boat. It may only get one coat. The primer say I can go 24 hours between without sanding so I'm holding that option in my trump.
Wish me luck. :|

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:57 am
by Jeff
Eric, send us some photo's after coat 1 today!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:42 am
by Eric1
I feel like I'm moving in slow motion today.
First thing I wiped it down with denatured alcohol. I found one place I dripped quick Fair.
Sanded and wiped it again.
Last pictures of my naked boat.
Image
Image
Image
Image

I mixed up 20 ounces of primer and went to work. I've used two foam rollers so far.
I change them at the first sign of damage. That batch went this far. Start time was 9:10 am, temp. was 70 degrees.

Image
Image

So far I've only found three pin holes. The worst is at the crest of a strake. May have to repair it, we'll see after the second coat.
This primer seems to fill and cover the small stuff very well. I thought I'd take a small break and post this, grab coffee and a smoke.
I'm headed back to it..Stay tuned...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:00 pm
by bateau-webmaster
YEAAAH Man! Looks good so far!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:04 pm
by Jeff
Eric, that looks really good!! I think the ST SilverTip Yacht Primer will take care of those pin holes!! Post more photos at the end of the day!! Again, really nice!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:54 pm
by Fuzz
Can't fool us. You could not sleep because wanted to be priming that girl :lol:
Like most girls she is going to look good with some clothes on :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:10 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:13 pm That's a friend and employee, Ray. He's a bit over 6' tall. So, I have sanded all the places I filled this morning. Right after I rinse it off again a mocking bird flies over the boat and drops a load on it out of my reach, of course. I wait for the water to dry and we get it back in the shop. Ol' Ray says, "I can reach it do you want me to get it off?" I said, Sure. He reaches up, wipes it gently off then brushes the rag quickly sling the bird poop back into my face. :roll: What could I do, That's the worst part of my day. Heck, I had to laugh.
Put Ray on lookout over the painter with a double barrel 12 gauge. I bet he would enjoy some payback.
Your primer is looking great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:35 pm
by Eric1
Thank You everyone.
Just had a bite. My girls were out driving around with Nanna. They stopped and brought me a chicken sandwich from Chick-Fil-A.
Nanna had some Tylenol and I took a couple, Headache is thumping pretty good.
Any way the next 20 ounces finished the bottom, Transom and first four feet of the first side. Thought I'd take another break and let the Tylenol kick in.

Progress pictures:

Image
Image
Image

I'm gonna get back on it at 3:00 and go until it's done.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:52 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Aaahhh, your painting inside. No need to shotgun the birds :lol: Looks really good!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:20 pm
by cape_fisherman
Looks like that primer is laying down nice. Good choice on filling in the pinholes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:53 pm
by Eric1
The primer did a great job. The first coat is complete! :D
I'll be back tomorrow to do it again.

Image
Image

Found a patch I'll have to repair, Don't know how I missed these. :roll:

Image

Going to pick up Pizza on the way home. It's been a long day.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:13 pm
by Fuzz
I am a little surprised to see YOU have some pinholes. Just goes to show how hard it is to see everything until you put a coat of primer on it.
I really like the look of that hull. That is going to be a nice boat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:18 pm
by Jeff
Eric, looks great!! Tell me what you think of the System Three ST Yacht Primer!! Great job today!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:19 pm
by glossieblack
Congratulations on getting the first coat on. She's looking great. And here's hoping that you're feeling better tomorrow. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:21 pm
by cvincent
Your persistence with fairing has paid off. Your first coat of primer looks great. I have an area with pinholes that looks exactly like yours near my transom that I need to fix.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:24 pm
by TomW1
Looking good Eric another step done. That first coat always seems to bring out a few flaws. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:06 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:13 pm I am a little surprised to see YOU have some pinholes. Just goes to show how hard it is to see everything until you put a coat of primer on it.
I really like the look of that hull. That is going to be a nice boat.
I too was surprised to see a patch of them like this. I've tried to be thorough but these got by me. Thanks for the compliment too! :D
Jeff wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:18 pm Eric, looks great!! Tell me what you think of the System Three ST Yacht Primer!! Great job today!! Jeff

Thank you Jeff. :D
It's easy to work with and covers great. You definitely need to wait 15 minutes after mixing. I tried to go with 10 minute on the third batch and it rolled thin. I guess the time allows for the chemicals to start to cross link. After 15 minutes it is the same all the way through the pot life.
glossieblack wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:19 pm Congratulations on getting the first coat on. She's looking great. And here's hoping that you're feeling better tomorrow. :D
Thank You my Friend! :D
cvincent wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:21 pm Your persistence with fairing has paid off. Your first coat of primer looks great. I have an area with pinholes that looks exactly like yours near my transom that I need to fix.
Thank You Too! :D That's where those are, Right at eye level. :roll:
TomW1 wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:24 pm Looking good Eric another step done. That first coat always seems to bring out a few flaws. :lol:
Thanks Tom. :D Boy does it ever!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:34 am
by Eric1
First thing this morning I shot the projected waterline with a laser level.
My plan is to only put a second coat of primer above this line as I will be doing epoxy graphite on the bottom.
The bottom came out with out any need of repair.
Lesson learned from yesterday, foam rollers are easy to tear on the trim transition. Today I will prime these with a 2" brush before rolling.
More to come.....Oh Yea, Have a great day!......

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:01 am
by glossieblack
Are you feeling better?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:03 am
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:01 am Are you feeling better?
Yes, Very much so. No headache what so ever!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:09 am
by Eric1
Just finished a 20 ounce batch of primer. I got it all done except the last 11 feet.

Image

You can see where the second coat overlap the first here.

Image

Transom.
Sorry for the dark picture. It's raining outside so I didn't roll the back door up for more light.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:23 am
by narfi
Beautiful!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:25 am
by Eric1
narfi wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:23 amBeautiful!
Thank You Narfi!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:22 pm
by Fuzz
I see you are ready to shoot the first cat that gets near your wet paint. :lol:

Really liking the looks of your girl in primer. Paint should have her ready for the dance :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:37 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Damn fine job sir! Pinholes aside, she's about as fair as I've seen a boat that size. And the pinholes should fill easy enough.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:42 pm
by Jeff
Eric, really well done!! Hope you are happy with the results!! Also sent you an email with photos of Center Consoles at a liquidation center near us!! Just as an example!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:21 pm
by Eric1
Thank Y'all Fuzz, Jamie and Jeff!!
I'm pretty Happy with the hull after priming. Does it need some touch up?, sure, but not much. :D :D :D

The second coat is complete! YAY!!

Image

I'm gonna let it rest until Monday. By then the primer should be cured and I can do some fill work with quick fair.

Thanks to every one for helping me get this far!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:32 pm
by pee wee
That looks great! I'm kind of surprised, even recognizing how careful you were being, that you didn't end up seeing about a dozen new places to attend to. What a fine job you did. 8) 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:32 pm
by BB Sig
Like a proud poppa. Congrats! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:20 pm
by Browndog
Looks great! Way to go Eric. All that fairing is paying off now. Keep up the good work.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:25 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Beautiful fairing job Eric :D Congratulations, that is one fine looking boat 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:01 pm
by seaslug
All I can say is that's disgusting! Your primer looks better than most finished paint jobs. We should all chip in and either buy a trophy for the best fairing job in the history of boat building, or find you a good shrink, to possibly cure you of this very serious affliction. Nice job! Mike

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:03 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Guys! I'm honored this boat pleases y'all too.

seaslug wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:01 pm All I can say is that's disgusting! Your primer looks better than most finished paint jobs. We should all chip in and either buy a trophy for the best fairing job in the history of boat building, or find you a good shrink, to possibly cure you of this very serious affliction. Nice job! Mike
Mike, That is very nice of you. As crazy as I am, this boat is my shrink. I can get lost in it and forget about everything while my hands are at work. If I can make the builder's meet I can explain in better detail. Thank again, God Bless.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:14 pm
by Jeff
Eric, sorry I am late but I could not agree more with all of the comments from the builders, really nice work and she looks fantastic!! Hope you have a nice weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:20 pm
by Eric1
Thank You my Friend. You too.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:03 pm
by seaslug
Eric, I hope you do make the builders meet, seems like a good turn out so far. I completely understand the need sometimes to just get lost in a task like endless sanding, it's kind of therapeutic. I've been in the construction business for over 40 years, and sometimes it's nice to just swing a sledge, or dig, or roll paint. Whatever, just something mind numbing. I actually like the sanding and fairing, but I've only built little toy boats, not a ship like yours. I really miss the boat building process right now, but really can't justify another build at this time. But I am accumulating wood for the next one, and just salvaged some really nice Fir from an old house I'm re-modeling. Can't wait to see the rest of your build. Mike

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:31 pm
by TomW1
Eric she is really looking good. But I really wasn't kidding in doing a last guide coat once you have these first two coats of primer on. Especially on the sides. It really depends on how anal you want to be and how smooth you want them to be.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:19 pm
by Eric1
Yea, Mike you totally get it. I look forward to seeing that fir put to good use.

Tom, I will probably do a guide coat prior to sanding. It's worked so far.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:12 am
by topwater
Late to the party , boat looks great all one color :!: Anybody that puts 2 coats of primer on the bottom of the hull before doing
a graphite bottom must be a machinist . Love the pocket dump pic , was that a Ruger :?:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:49 am
by glossieblack
I'm even later. The primer looks great Eric. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:11 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:12 am Late to the party , boat looks great all one color :!: Anybody that puts 2 coats of primer on the bottom of the hull before doing
a graphite bottom must be a machinist . Love the pocket dump pic , was that a Ruger :?:
Thanks . Yes that's my little .380, I keep something handy all the time. Shop has been broke into before so if I'm alone I'm carrying.
glossieblack wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:49 am I'm even later. The primer looks great Eric. :D
Thanks Glossie!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:10 pm
by Eric1
I got a late start morning, just eased into the day. I had to take the trash to the dumpster so I came to the shop around 12:00.
After that I decided to check on the boat. After giving it a walk down with pencil in hand I went to work filling all the little pinholes I found.

All the dark spots are where I filled.

Image

Found a giouge from sanding at the end of this spray rail.
Image

Most of what I filled was tiny in nature but two coats of primer didn't fill it so I put quick fair over it.
I realize I could have never seen this prior to primer so I'm not beating myself up over it.

Image

Well I have to go home and decide which firearm I'll be cleaning tonight when my youngest daughter's date shows up.
It's her first date and I know they boy. They used to play together when he lived across the road from us. Never the less, That was when they were 6, 16 is different. No Quarter!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:20 pm
by bateau-webmaster
If you have a S&W 500 Magnum . . . :p (Careful though, he might be too enthused about it, I know that would have been my favorite growing up. I liked the Desert Eagle back then, but the revolver is much more reliable)

I'd say a shotgun is probably most appropriate.

Like I said with the primer, it really calls attention to all the little details. Much harder to see with all the different textures/patterns from the initial fairing.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:04 pm
by Eric1
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:20 pm If you have a S&W 500 Magnum . . . :p (Careful though, he might be too enthused about it, I know that would have been my favorite growing up. I liked the Desert Eagle back then, but the revolver is much more reliable)

I'd say a shotgun is probably most appropriate.

Like I said with the primer, it really calls attention to all the little details. Much harder to see with all the different textures/patterns from the initial fairing.
Think I'll go with this one. :D
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:12 pm
by Jeff
Excellent choice!!! Nothing like being a father to daughters!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:20 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Yeah, that'll do.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:33 pm
by Fuzz
My daughters first date I took the young man aside and asked if she had told him I do not mind going back to prison :D
Daughter teared up and said she would never have any dates. I replied that I would knock it off when she was really old enough to date...............you know anything over 30 :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:51 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:33 pm My daughters first date I took the young man aside and asked if she had told him I do not mind going back to prison :D
Daughter teared up and said she would never have any dates. I replied that I would knock it off when she was really old enough to date...............you know anything over 30 :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:48 am
by topwater
Nice , Looks like a Sig 8) Legal now to shoulder that puppy without dealing with the ATF for a SBR permit.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:34 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:48 am Nice , Looks like a Sig 8) Legal now to shoulder that puppy without dealing with the ATF for a SBR permit.
Yes Sir, It's a lot of fun. I have a binary trigger for it but I haven't done the install yet. Sighted about an 1 1/2" high at fifty yards. That gives me a "flat" hold to about 87 yards. That's all a 9mm will do for the most part.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:37 am
by glossieblack
Looking forward to pics of the primer touch ups and the graphite bottom. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:31 am
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:37 am Looking forward to pics of the primer touch ups and the graphite bottom. :D
Thanks for the motivation Glossie! I was sitting at the house thinking I wouldn't mess with this today but your post got me moving. :lol:

As I had said there were areas I was not happy with. This is on of them. After repairing the fillet from the bad batch I made I proceeded to do a really crappy job of sanding this part of the fillet. I've worked to hard on this to allow anything not to meet my standards. So I refilled the fillet and sanded it out again. This time I am ok with it. Note the PVC pieces, I pulled the fillet with the larger size. Then I sand with a single layer on it. After that I sand with the smaller size. Last I feather the ends with paper wrapped around my index finger. It works pretty well.

Before sanding.

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After.
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Pin hole area before.

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After, Just knocked the highs off. I'll be sanding the entire transom and all above the waterline with 120 to prep for two more coats of primer.
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I started sanding the bottom (1 coat only) to prep for graphite. I'm using a 5" R.O. sander with 120 grit paper. I've also set the R.O. to it's slowest speed.
Then I hand sand the strakes and after I block sand everything with a medium sponge sander. I'm only working a foot or so at a time.

Image


I'm going to get back on it, I've got to head to the house after while to make a couple of peach cobblers for the family get together tomorrow!
It's always fun, we cook a Frogmore stew, make ice cream and after dark filled the sky with fireworks!!!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:11 pm
by Fuzz
Frogmore stew :doh: Toads and bullfrogs?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:01 pm
by Jeff
Looks good Eric, enjoy the holiday!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:43 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:11 pm Frogmore stew :doh: Toads and bullfrogs?
:lol:
Boiled Shrimp, Andouille Sausage,potatoes and corn on the cob. We use a Cajun spice for shrimp and crabs.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:09 pm
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:43 pm
Fuzz wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:11 pm Frogmore stew :doh: Toads and bullfrogs?
:lol:
Boiled Shrimp, Andouille Sausage,potatoes and corn on the cob. We use a Cajun spice for shrimp and crabs.
My local post office was "Frogmore SC" before the damn Yankees forced it to be renamed St Helena Island.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:30 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:01 pm Looks good Eric, enjoy the holiday!! Jeff
Thanks buddy, you too!

I got half of the bottom and the left side sanded before 'I left the shop.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:33 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:09 pm
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:43 pm
Fuzz wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:11 pm Frogmore stew :doh: Toads and bullfrogs?
:lol:
Boiled Shrimp, Andouille Sausage,potatoes and corn on the cob. We use a Cajun spice for shrimp and crabs.
My local post office was "Frogmore SC" before the damn Yankees forced it to be renamed St Helena Island.
Best I can remember that's where this boil got it's start. Good ole lowcountry!! 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:59 pm
by Jaysen
Yep. Gullah or Geechee stew is another name it goes by here. Especially in those back road local places.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:23 am
by glossieblack
May the graphite force be with you Eric. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:18 am
by BB Sig
I was in a Marine squadron that trained other units in adversarial (communist) tactics. We used to go to Beaufort, SC every year. One of the officers was previously stationed there and had a friendship with a plantation manager. He would come out one afternoon during our two weeks there and bring all the fixings for a Frogmore stew. I would help him clean the crabs and then throw them in. It was a great time. The fresh crabs made a difference to what everyone else calls a low country boil. This guy made it better and I just can't duplicate the memory or the flavors. Something about a group of Marines, great food and beer... :D

Oh yeah, your boat looks good too! :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:59 am
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:18 am I was in a Marine squadron that trained other units in adversarial (communist) tactics. We used to go to Beaufort, SC every year. One of the officers was previously stationed there and had a friendship with a plantation manager. He would come out one afternoon during our two weeks there and bring all the fixings for a Frogmore stew. I would help him clean the crabs and then throw them in. It was a great time. The fresh crabs made a difference to what everyone else calls a low country boil. This guy made it better and I just can't duplicate the memory or the flavors. Something about a group of Marines, great food and beer... :D

Oh yeah, your boat looks good too! :wink:
Great memories Barry! Thanks for sharing that. I know exactly how you feel. There is nothing like the brotherhood of military life, I miss it. I have had the stew with fresh crabs and you are dead right, That's take it to a whole new level! I'm to far from the coast to get them, I've tried adding snow crab to it and it's good too, but, not the same. Happy Forth of July Leatherneck, From this old Salty Squid!! God Bless you and Thanks for stepping up and serving. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:32 pm
by Jaysen
Eric, let me know if you want to arrange a quick shipment of some freshly caught crab. Dry ice and styrofoam will keep them safe for quite a long time.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:34 pm
by Jaysen
BB, your boys have been raising heck over on PI just as vigorously as when you were here. I love the morning PT drifting over the water followed by the ranges opening at 6:18am every day. Freedom has a price. Few Americans really get that. I'm privileged to be reminded of that price everyday.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:00 pm
by BB Sig
And I remember being at the range and seeing boats thinking how much I wanted to be on one! :lol:

Fond memories of PI but glad that chapter is over.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm
by csotelo
Hey my friend,

Boat looks really good with primer!

Congrats!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:44 pm
by Eric1
csotelo wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm Hey my friend,

Boat looks really good with primer!

Congrats!
Thank You Carlos! :D

I sanded the transom and about half of the other bottom side today. I had to stop and go get my haircut.
That curly mop had to go! High and tight now I'm feeling right! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:05 pm
by blueflood
Top notch Eric :D Going great !
Man, your shop. I want one 😥 I was looking for your build in the Builder section of the site.

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:21 pm
by Eric1
blueflood wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:05 pm Top notch Eric :D Going great !
Man, your shop. I want one 😥 I was looking for your build in the Builder section of the site.

Marc
Thank you Marc! It is nice building inside with the AC on. I'm gonna head back in the morning to finish this round of sanding.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:32 am
by Fuzz
Eric1 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:44 pm I sanded the transom and about half of the other bottom side today. I had to stop and go get my haircut.
That curly mop had to go! High and tight now I'm feeling right! :lol:
I have found that letting it all fall out works pretty good too 8O

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:47 am
by Aripeka Angler
What??? AC??? That would be fantastic, it was 103' in my shop yesterday at 1800.
Your boat is looking great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:58 am
by BB Sig
Eric1 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:44 pm I sanded the transom and about half of the other bottom side today. I had to stop and go get my haircut.
That curly mop had to go! High and tight now I'm feeling right! :lol:
The boat is looking good but a sailor with a high and tight!? :doh: What did you do in the Navy?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:00 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:32 am
Eric1 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:44 pm I sanded the transom and about half of the other bottom side today. I had to stop and go get my haircut.
That curly mop had to go! High and tight now I'm feeling right! :lol:
I have found that letting it all fall out works pretty good too 8O
I took after my Mom plenty of hair. My brother took after Dad, Pattern baldness.
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:47 am What??? AC??? That would be fantastic, it was 103' in my shop yesterday at 1800.
Your boat is looking great!
Thank You! I feel for you. It gets to 90's in the machine shop with the AC's but we're close this week. No metal being cut means not heat generation from the motors or the cuts!
BB Sig wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:58 am The boat is looking good but a sailor with a high and tight!? :doh: What did you do in the Navy?


Thanks Barry! I was an electronics tech. I went to "A"school with a bunch of Marines in Great Lakes. Spent more time with them than I did the other sailors. Our first instructor was a Gunny, I had nothing but respect for that man. He was smart as a whip and squared away. My first Chief was a slob, no respect for his uniform or person. That was pretty much the course of my tour of duty.
I joined the wrong branch of service to be honest. I did like Sea duty but I never fit in like I did with those Grunts.
Besides all that, I love the haircut. Cool in the summer and quick in the shower. :wink:

Mugshot.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:17 pm
by Eric1
I finished sanded the second half of the boat today.
I found a couple of places I needed to fill.

Probably where the air file got out of my hands.
Image
Filled.
Image

Spot in spray rail fillet I didn't like.
Image
Filled.
Image

After two coats of primer this is my average surface. I'm going to add another two coats and hopefully it will fill the "orange peel. I don't know, There was a tremendous difference from coat one to coat two. I'm wanting to avoid trying to throw quick fair that thin. It just seems to sand off when I try that. What do y'all think?

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:46 pm
by dbcrx
Adding more coats won't fill in the orange peel. If anything it will just make it heavier. You should be able to sand the orange peel out, but with only 2 coats on there you risk burning through the primer, adding more coats will give you plenty to work with to then sand it flat again. When rolling or brushing, you're better off putting thin coats on and sanding between each coat. It's a pain in the ass I know, but it's easier to flat off the roller texture from one thin coat. If you do 3 or 4 coats without sanding, the texture will build up and you'll end up sanding 2 of the coats off again to get it flat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:01 pm
by Eric1
dbcrx wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:46 pm Adding more coats won't fill in the orange peel. If anything it will just make it heavier. You should be able to sand the orange peel out, but with only 2 coats on there you risk burning through the primer, adding more coats will give you plenty to work with to then sand it flat again. When rolling or brushing, you're better off putting thin coats on and sanding between each coat. It's a pain in the ass I know, but it's easier to flat off the roller texture from one thin coat. If you do 3 or 4 coats without sanding, the texture will build up and you'll end up sanding 2 of the coats off again to get it flat.
Ok, That makes sense. I'll just do one coat at a time, sand and repeat. This is gonna take a while, stay tuned.. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:18 am
by Eric1
After thinking about the boat last night. I came in this morning and put a guide coat on the primer on a small section.
Light spray of Dykem:

Image

I put away the RO sander. I've about decided it is useless as tits on a fish for this work. I dressed my blocks with 120 and went to work.
As DBCRX posted it's a PITA, but in the end I think it will be worth it. I'm getting a very slick surface doing this but it is gonna take some time.
To get the orange peel out I have just barely went through the primer in a couple of spots. I plan to work the entire boat and prime it again.
Fellas it's been good to know you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:28 am
by pee wee
That looks like it's going to work, but are you sure you want a flawless mirror finish? :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:34 am
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:28 am That looks like it's going to work, but are you sure you want a flawless mirror finish? :lol:
Kinda wishing I was some one else right now! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:10 pm
by Fuzz
Eric have you been to the Doctor? You seem the have some sort if contagious disease and it is spreading through the web :!: I am pretty darn sure I am immune to it but not sure about some............ others :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:27 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:10 pm Eric have you been to the Doctor? You seem the have some sort if contagious disease and it is spreading through the web :!: I am pretty darn sure I am immune to it but not sure about some............ others :lol:
It is not intentional Fuzz! Madness transference via a boat builders forum? :lol:

Well Fellas, I've taken as many bites out of the elephant as I can handle today. I've been sanding pretty steady and I'm getting hungry.
Gonna head to the house. I may take tomorrow off the build and rest up for next week. I took a couple more pictures for y'all. It's not smooth as glass but I'm very happy with the surface of the primer after block sanding. I made it as far as the blue tape under the chine. The tape on the strake is a reminder to sand a pinhole repair. By the way, Quick Fair does not make a bunch of dust from sanding. PRIMER DOES!!! That crap is EVERYWHERE. :lol:

Image

A little closer..

Image

Y'all have a Great Weekend!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:18 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Dropped off the brown box at UPS.
UPS should be delivering it on Tuesday 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:28 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:18 pm Dropped off the brown box at UPS.
UPS should be delivering it on Tuesday 8)
Thank You !!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:39 pm
by MrPaul
So this is how it is after we finish fairing.....more fairing.

The boat is looking good Eric.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:41 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:39 pm So this is how it is after we finish fairing.....more fairing.

The boat is looking good Eric.
Thanks Paul. :D What did Yogi say?.."It ain't over till it's over".

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm
by MrPaul
I really want that pic-a-nic basket to come quick. :lol: I've been fairing for ages.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:48 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm I really want that pic-a-nic basket to come quick. :lol: I've been fairing for ages.
Oh Man! You made me chuckle. I was quoting Yogi Berra! :lol:
But a Pic-a-nic basket would be good too!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:37 pm
by Jeff
Gotta love it!!! Good one!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:29 pm
by TomW1
Knew you would end up doing a guide coat. :lol: :lol: It is looking great. Just think when you get it done with 120 and then have to sand with 330 for the final coats, then you are really done with prepping. :D

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:54 pm
by Eric1
I finished sanding the first side today. I had machine repairmen on the floor all day. Had to rent a larger forklift to get the transmission off the machine. Lifting a $25k gearbox twelve feet in the air at the tip of six foot long forks will tighten your pucker muscle more than you would think. We get to do it again in the morning. Yay :|
Sorry no pictures today.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:12 pm
by Fuzz
I can't wait to see what you call "finished sanding" :lol:

At my old job I picked million dollar plus stuff off of a boat a lot. Never thought much of it, it was an oil companies money not mine. It is a whole different deal when it is your nickel on the line. I hope all goes well for you tomorrow. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:39 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:12 pm I can't wait to see what you call "finished sanding" :lol:

At my old job I picked million dollar plus stuff off of a boat a lot. Never thought much of it, it was an oil companies money not mine. It is a whole different deal when it is your nickel on the line. I hope all goes well for you tomorrow. :wink:
Thank for the well wishes. I does wad me up some, the rental lift has a loose clutch and that don't help. 8O
I'll try to get a decent picture tomorrow after the install. It's doesn't convey well in pictures. I' basically taking the primer down to a 120 grit finish. then I'll prime again and sand that down to a 220 grit. I really don't want to go further than that because I'm concerned about paint adhesion. :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:42 pm
by Jaysen
I thought S3 (which I think your using) is no finer than 120. Might be worth checking the application notes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:46 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:42 pm I thought S3 (which I think your using) is no finer than 120. Might be worth checking the application notes.
That's prep for primer. The 220 Is for the EMC topcoat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:21 pm
by Jaysen
Check the EMC surface prep too. I know there was something there that surprised me. Either way that EMC is nice stuff to work with. I have had a peeling issue that is due to improper prep between topcoat layers. I'd also suggest NOT using the reducer. Everything was much better without the reducer.

Good luck.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 am
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:21 pm Check the EMC surface prep too. I know there was something there that surprised me. Either way that EMC is nice stuff to work with. I have had a peeling issue that is due to improper prep between topcoat layers. I'd also suggest NOT using the reducer. Everything was much better without the reducer.

Good luck.
Thanks Jaysen for the heads up. I will double check before I sand down to 220. :)

Fuzz, this is the surface after two coats of primer.
A boat builder on a facebook group said he thought I didn't mix the primer enough. I don't know, I thought about buying a cheap blender to mix the primer for a few minutes to see if it helps. :help:
Image

This is after block sanding with 120.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:12 am
by glossieblack
Well from here it looks the goods after the 120 block sanding. But I'm not exactly close, and neither is Fuzz!

Seriously though Eric, you're doing a great job. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:14 am
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:12 am Well from here it looks the goods after the 120 block sanding. But I'm not exactly close, and neither is Fuzz!

Seriously though Eric, you're doing a great job. :D
Thanks Bro, I hope so. I just don't want it to look bad after all the effort.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:28 am
by Jaysen
So... I think you are over thinking this.

The EMC is self leveling. I only sanded to 60 on fairing and didn't even bother on primer. It was rough! I put the EMC on and now anything that I didn't but anit-slip in is too smooth to actually hold. Only areas where I had gouges are unfilled weave/seams show anything like an unsmooth surface. EMC will cover all the small things you are showing. In two coats (that's all I did on the hull sides). Do a small sample. I think you will be surprised and will move into topcoat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:31 am
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:28 am So... I think you are over thinking this.

The EMC is self leveling. I only sanded to 60 on fairing and didn't even bother on primer. It was rough! I put the EMC on and now anything that I didn't but anit-slip in is too smooth to actually hold. Only areas where I had gouges are unfilled weave/seams show anything like an unsmooth surface. EMC will cover all the small things you are showing. In two coats (that's all I did on the hull sides). Do a small sample. I think you will be surprised and will move into topcoat.
I've actually got a test board made up. Just a primed/sanded piece of ply. There's no glass on it though, I want to see what bare wood would look like.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:36 am
by Jaysen
If you thin it at the rate on the can, you will need at least 5 coats. If you are like me, you do 2 unthinned coats, then a thin coat. DO NOT LET IT CURE COMPLETELY. DO NOT SAND IT. Just put it on "wet on wet" like epoxy. I can't remember who suggested the test to me, but the minute you don't leave a finger print, put the next coat on.

I'm telling you, that sh!t is magic. You can see the "workboat" fairing, but the paint... almost looks like someone smart did it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:18 am
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:36 am If you thin it at the rate on the can, you will need at least 5 coats. If you are like me, you do 2 unthinned coats, then a thin coat. DO NOT LET IT CURE COMPLETELY. DO NOT SAND IT. Just put it on "wet on wet" like epoxy. I can't remember who suggested the test to me, but the minute you don't leave a finger print, put the next coat on.

I'm telling you, that sh!t is magic. You can see the "workboat" fairing, but the paint... almost looks like someone smart did it.
I believe you but I'm not sure if I can go that route. My paint was mixed for a flat finish. I am supposed to mix 4:1:1 according to EMC.

I have the transom sanded out.

Image

This shows the surface finish on the primer pretty well.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:26 am
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:18 am I believe you but I'm not sure if I can go that route. My paint was mixed for a flat finish. I am supposed to mix 4:1:1 according to EMC.
I'm not sure that matters. I think the thinner is "optional" for all the mixes but I've been known to be wrong (mrs points that out all the time). Either way, that EMC really is the cats meow for self leveling. Like the S3 for primer. Just makes all the small stuff vanish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:40 am
by icelikkilinc
I hate the prep work as it requires the most manual labour :lol: :lol:
Good decision to leave the RA if you are after the smooth finish..

Also from my experience, Usually most paints require a little waiting period after truly mixing.
Haven't used the products that you are using but I don't expect them to differ too much.
I used to thoroughly mix, than pass the mix through a filter to a clean container and let sit there couple minutes prior to application.
That was helping a lot on eliminating dirt and air bubbles etc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:46 pm
by dbcrx
What made them think you hadn't mixed it properly? Looks fine to me, unless it's balling up when you sand it?

When you say the topcoat is mixed for a flat finish do you mean matt as apposed to gloss? If so then you will be better off doing thinner coats. Most matt paints don't get the full effect of the matting agent if applied to thick.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:25 pm
by Eric1
dbcrx wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:46 pm What made them think you hadn't mixed it properly? Looks fine to me, unless it's balling up when you sand it?

When you say the topcoat is mixed for a flat finish do you mean matt as apposed to gloss? If so then you will be better off doing thinner coats. Most matt paints don't get the full effect of the matting agent if applied to thick.
Yes, I suppose it's the same. I'm going to follow EMC's instructions on the paint. As for the primer, It's sanding fine. I just thought I'd share what the guy had said. I've have nothing to go by as this is my first build. First time for priming with this product etc.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:11 pm
by Eric1
It's been a week full of headaches. My Machine is still not repaired. I'm being told it will be ready by end of today.
I've been chugging along sanding the primer. I just finished all of it one inch below the waterline. :D

Image

Image

Tomorrow is boat bath day. Then I'll prime it again and sand it with a finer paper.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:41 pm
by Fuzz
Eric the boat is looking really nice. How fine are you planning on sending it down to?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:00 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:41 pm Eric the boat is looking really nice. How fine are you planning on sending it down to?
I had thought I'd go to 220 but the 120 is pretty slick. I think I'll see what 180 looks like before I get to CrAzY with it. Sorry for the slow response, I've only been home 15 minutes. Machine repair is on going and so far my week has not been great. I'm decompressing tonight with a couple bottles of cold Modelo Negro. If you like dark brew these are really good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:11 pm
by Jeff
You have a good evening Eric!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:24 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:11 pm You have a good evening Eric!!! Jeff
Thanks Buddy, You too! :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:38 pm
by AmbitiousRookie
Those are pretty good Eric it could be worse we have one the been down 6 week they can't get the drive right lol

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:58 pm
by Eric1
AmbitiousRookie wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:38 pm Those are pretty good Eric it could be worse we have one the been down 6 week they can't get the drive right lol
6 weeks! Good grief! 8O

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:22 pm
by Fuzz
Maybe it is my Cloof memory but I thought something around 120-150 was as fine as you should go to get good adhesion. And if YOU think it is pretty slick it must be as smooth as the proverbial babies butt :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:41 am
by topwater
I went to 220 before paint, worked for me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:56 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:41 am I went to 220 before paint, worked for me.
Thanks for letting me know! :D

Nothing major to report. I took her outside for another bath. You can see tons of places I broke through primer while sanding it down.
In particular, if you look to the upper right of the lower strake you can see what a hard spot looks like. That the result of sanding over the frame that's underneath the hull. I thought that was interesting.

Image

The other side.

Image

Next step...Prime her again!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:21 am
by cape_fisherman
What are you sanding with at this point? What I mean is, how long is your board?

Looking good by the way.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:24 am
by Eric1
cape_fisherman wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:21 am What are you sanding with at this point? What I mean is, how long is your board?

Looking good by the way.
I've dropped to a 12" and a 6". I hope to just use the small 6" with 180 and very lightly sand the next coat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:37 am
by cape_fisherman
I hate to even suggest this to you...but in these final stages I would rather see you using a longer board.

22"-24"

The shorter the board, the easier it will be to introduce new issues. At least...that's my theory.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:46 am
by Eric1
cape_fisherman wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:37 am I hate to even suggest this to you...but in these final stages I would rather see you using a longer board.

22"-24"

The shorter the board, the easier it will be to introduce new issues. At least...that's my theory.
I'll give that a go. I'm open to what you guys recommend. I'm learning as best I can. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:17 pm
by pee wee
What about flex, would a flexible board or padded board help at this stage?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:27 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:17 pm What about flex, would a flexible board or padded board help at this stage?
You must be reading my mind. I was thinking of trying the sanding sponges also.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:39 pm
by cape_fisherman
pee wee wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:17 pm What about flex, would a flexible board or padded board help at this stage?
Exactly...but that's what nearly all fairing should be done with...so in my mind it went without saying.

Make you a 2' board with handles...thin wood & stick the paper to it. Put small, single attachment point handles close to either end. Go to war...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:50 pm
by dbcrx
Have to disagree there. I don't like using soft pads for paint prep. I have some and they do get used, but only in very certain circumstances. If you are sanding the primer to still flat out any very slight highs/lows then a soft pad will just follow those and sand a dip back in. Fairing can only be done with a firm block. Flexible, yes, but soft, NO.

The only time I will use soft pads is if I know the surface is perfectly faired and it's a complex, curvy shape that just needs a light sanding to key up.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:48 am
by Aripeka Angler
dbcrx wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:50 pm Have to disagree there. I don't like using soft pads for paint prep. I have some and they do get used, but only in very certain circumstances. If you are sanding the primer to still flat out any very slight highs/lows then a soft pad will just follow those and sand a dip back in. Fairing can only be done with a firm block. Flexible, yes, but soft, NO.

The only time I will use soft pads is if I know the surface is perfectly faired and it's a complex, curvy shape that just needs a light sanding to key up.
I agree with with just about everything you say and I know you are a professional painter.
Around the strakes and spray rails you have to use something flexible though.
That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:10 am
by Eric1
I have to get another coat on. I plan to thin it down as I don't want a high build this time. The one thing I do know it the next round of sanding will be gentle! I have a pretty busy week ahead in the shop so I may not get a great deal done on the boat. Maybe I can at least get the primer on, we'll see.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:23 am
by Jeff
Send me some photos when possible!! Have a good weekend and try to stay out of the heat!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:47 am
by Eric1
Round two. I mixed 16 ounces of part A to 4 ounces of part B. Then I thinned it 10% with 1 ounce of 97% Isopropyl alcohol and 1 ounce of water. Start time was 8:45 am, temp was 72 in the shop. I waited 15 minutes and started rolling. Started on this side from bow. Then I did the transom. I changed the roller and went back forward to start the other side. I only made it about halfway when the primer started rolling like crap. It was 11:30 and shop temp was at 80 degrees. I dumped about 4 oz of primer out.

Happy side.

Image

Not so happy side. Primer was rolling out too thick about halfway down.

Image

I suspect between thinning it and the increase in temperature caused the shorter work time. No big deal, just hate I wasted it.
I'll finish this off in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:22 pm
by BB Sig
Good to know about the thinning making it go faster. Your getting closer. Keep up the good work! It's looking great.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:01 pm
by Jeff
Eric, Yes, your boat is really looking great!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:31 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Barry and Jeff. :D

Just a quick update. I test sanded a couple of places with 180 grit paper. It's going to take a little more work but I could finesse a nice finish from the areas where the primer got nasty with out cutting all the way through the new primer. :D :D :D

Man it feels like crap in the machine shop. I'm thankful I'm not building in the sun though. This is with 32 tons of AC running. The machines generate an unbelievable amount of heat. It's 90 outside and we'll hit 97 by Thursday. Y'all stay hydrated and build early if you are building down south.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:47 pm
by Eric1
It was nice and cool this morning so I went to work applying the second coat of primer. I finished priming where I had to stop yesterday. I had many places that did not cover well from the thinned primer. I used the extra I had mixed to go back over all that. I think the surface will stay smooth, the primer laid down well this morning.

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:59 pm
by cape man
I am curious why you would thin the primer. When I did mine I used a high-build system 3 primer which helped in the fairing before final coat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:02 pm
by Eric1
cape man wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:59 pm I am curious why you would thin the primer. When I did mine I used a high-build system 3 primer which helped in the fairing before final coat.
I was trying to keep it from having the orange peel texture I got from the first two coats. I'm not sure if it was necessary. :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:18 pm
by Eric1
I started at the transom this morning. I'm taking my time and going slow. It is already hot in the shop.
I switched to the graphite powder for the finer grit papers I'm using.
It details finer than the Dykem.

Application looks like this.

Image

After sanding with 180 part way. I'm being careful as possible not to cut through but it's still happening in a few places.
After this round of sanding I'll re-prime over these and just feather it in. I'm tired of fighting primer.

Image

Half of transom is done. I went down to 220 then a light pass at 320.
This is as good as I plan to get this.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:55 pm
by Jeff
Eric, yes, I hope so as it looks fantastic!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:22 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:55 pm Eric, yes, I hope so as it looks fantastic!! Jeff
Thanks My Friend! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:35 pm
by jacquesmm
I like the graphite better than the Dykum whihc is already better than the spray paint.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:35 pm
by Eric1
jacquesmm wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:35 pm I like the graphite better than the Dykum whihc is already better than the spray paint.
I very much agree, For the finesse work. I did find the Dykem stood out better before priming though.

I finished what I'm going to sand today. I have the transom sanded.

Image

From the edge.

Image

See Y'all later. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:49 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Looking good Eric. 8) You have to be getting close to "good 'nuff".

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:59 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:49 pm Looking good Eric. 8) You have to be getting close to "good 'nuff".
If I could just keep myself from cutting through the primer I would call it done. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:16 pm
by TomW1
Eric1 wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:59 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:49 pm Looking good Eric. 8) You have to be getting close to "good 'nuff".
If I could just keep myself from cutting through the primer I would call it done. :lol:


Ah say the heck with it put on 3 or 4 coats of primer and sand it smooth and call it done with. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:15 am
by Fuzz
Just wondering is primer supposed to shine like top coat :doh: Mine never will and that’s a fact 8O
Eric I just know that thing is going to shine like nobodies business :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:22 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:15 am Just wondering is primer supposed to shine like top coat :doh: Mine never will and that’s a fact 8O
Eric I just know that thing is going to shine like nobodies business :D
Fuzz, It only shines with light from an acute angle. That's just how I'm checking the surface.
I don't know if I'm doing this right or wrong, I'm just doing it as best I can.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:01 am
by Browndog
I had the same problem. When the sanding of the primer seemed to be introducing defects in the surface I put on one final coat of primer and proceeded to the topcoat. Looks like you are at the same stage. Very nice.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:03 am
by Fuzz
Eric my point was your primer looks better than my topcoat :D That thing is going to look way nice :!:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:09 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:03 am Eric my point was your primer looks better than my topcoat :D That thing is going to look way nice :!:
Thank You very much. I did not take it in a negative. :) I was just stating the Facts! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:51 pm
by Eric1
No big news today. I'm still just barely cutting through primer. My resolve is a new plan. Where I have applied this coat of primer (without the section that set up on me) it maintained a nice surface finish. I'm going forward with the rest of this sanding to 180. After that I plan to apply two more coats and pray I can get to 220-320 without issue. I left the boat rather frustrated around noon. I did not take photos. I just had to walk away it was really getting under my skin.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:00 pm
by glossieblack
Eric1 wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:51 pm I left the boat rather frustrated around noon. I did not take photos. I just had to walk away it was really getting under my skin.
Yep, that' the time to walk. Before you do something silly. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:05 pm
by cvincent
Eric,

You may want to try a finish primer over the high build. I used the EMC surface primer (not high build) over the top of the system 3 for a smoother finish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:16 am
by Eric1
cvincent wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:05 pm Eric,

You may want to try a finish primer over the high build. I used the EMC surface primer (not high build) over the top of the system 3 for a smoother finish.
Advice taken. Surface primer is on the way. Thank You. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:37 pm
by Eric1
Back at it today. We have a cloudy day so the shop is not quite as hot. 72 this morning and it's 80 right now.
Just thought I'd update status. :)

Image

Next section.

Image

Side one sanded.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:53 pm
by Aripeka Angler
80 degrees? That's like being in a deep freezer. :lol:
Your primer is looking pretty much perfect to me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:03 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:53 pm 80 degrees? That's like being in a deep freezer. :lol:
Your primer is looking pretty much perfect to me.
It did feel nice! Even though it got to 86. Thanks Richard. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 am
by Jeff
I fully agree with AA, we would take 80 at mid-afternoon in our warehouse/shop and would feel like a cold front just hit Vero Beach!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:31 am
by topwater
Okay i must have missed something , why do you need a surface primer over the high build ?
I am with Richard on this one i think it looks great. Is there some problem with the primer ?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:37 am
by Marshall Moser
EMC Quantum High Solids Repairable Marine Finish System Selection Guide:
http://boatbuildercentral.com/help/qguide.pdf

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:19 am
by cvincent
When I applied the system 3 primer I was able to obtain a very nice finish, but had a very fine orange peel. It may have been ok as it was but I applied the EMC surface primer over the system 3 to eliminate the orange peel before the application of the topcoat. I used these products when painting my D15 skiff. This is system that I used and it worked to my satisfaction.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:27 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:31 am Okay i must have missed something , why do you need a surface primer over the high build ?
I am with Richard on this one i think it looks great. Is there some problem with the primer ?
Thank You Topwater.:)
No issue with the high build, it's doing what it is suppose to do. I'm getting a real nice finish.
The thing is to get there I have cut through in many places. To cover these without having to have as heavy a build
I'm going to surface primer. I have discussed this with Jamie and Robin at EMC.

Jamie thinks I would be fine going on to topcoat. I suspect he's is most likely correct.
That said, I don't want to risk the paint coming off the boat a year from now. Though I think that is less than a 1% chance of happening.
Robin at EMC has advised me that if this were her boat she would go to surface primer as well.

I simply weighed the pros and cons.

Pro's:
1. I'll get a more even color from top coat.
2. I reduce the chance of paint adhesion issues. Same primer from topcoat manufacturer.
3. Reduce the chance of losing my finish from a heavy build of primer.

Con's:
1. Additional cost. (some what negated as this will last over several builds)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:31 am
by Eric1
cvincent wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:19 am When I applied the system 3 primer I was able to obtain a very nice finish, but had a very fine orange peel. It may have been ok as it was but I applied the EMC surface primer over the system 3 to eliminate the orange peel before the application of the topcoat. I used these products when painting my D15 skiff. This is system that I used and it worked to my satisfaction.
It was your post that started me down this path. I think it will work as well for me! :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:35 am
by topwater
Okay i get it now. I guess i'm not that anal 8) When my boat looked like that i went right to paint.
Not the best paint job but it looked good to me. Build on :!:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:38 pm
by Fuzz
topwater wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:35 am Okay i get it now. I guess i'm not that anal 8) When my boat looked like that i went right to paint.
Not the best paint job but it looked good to me. Build on :!:
Topwater your paint job might not be the best :?: but I am not sure how it could have looked any better than it does :doh:
Your boat does not need to take a back seat to anything I have seen.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:17 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:38 pm
topwater wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:35 am Okay i get it now. I guess i'm not that anal 8) When my boat looked like that i went right to paint.
Not the best paint job but it looked good to me. Build on :!:
Topwater your paint job might not be the best :?: but I am not sure how it could have looked any better than it does :doh:
Your boat does not need to take a back seat to anything I have seen.
I have to agree with this. Topwater, That boat is beautiful. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:54 pm
by Eric1
I'mmmm still sanding after all this time...Sing to Elton John's "I'm still standing".

Image

Next

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:22 pm
by Jeff
Nice Eric!!! Really nice work!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:40 pm
by TomW1
Eric that boat is going to be the most sanded and faired of any that has been built here. Can't wait to see it when finished.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:56 am
by topwater
I am pretty sure if you weighed the sanding dust at this point it would weigh more than the boat :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:00 pm
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:56 am I am pretty sure if you weighed the sanding dust at this point it would weigh more than the boat :lol:
That's funny stuff! :lol:

I finished sanding the second side. I decided to block sand the bottom with 120 to prep for epoxy/graphite.
I was not really happy with the job the RO sander did. It may not matter for what's going there but I want to start smooth.
The surface primer came in this morning. I plan to have a coat of that on friday. I plan to test it on the transom first.

Back on bottom.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:49 pm
by Fuzz
Eric I am pretty sure you know the church hymn "there’s a great day coming" That is what came to my mind when I saw you talking about putting the graphite to the bottom. Funny how the mind works :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:21 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:49 pm Eric I am pretty sure you know the church hymn "there’s a great day coming" That is what came to my mind when I saw you talking about putting the graphite to the bottom. Funny how the mind works :lol:
AMEN! :lol:

I had to stop just now. I got nauseous twice to the point of dang near losing lunch.
I'm calling that the end of the day. I'm almost finished with the first bottom side.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:24 pm
by TomW1
Hey Eric looking good. Keep it up guy and you'll be ready to flip in a short time. Don't forget the graphite coat will float the way you apply it, so roll and tip it carefully. You sure don't want to sand that black mess. Take care and good finishing.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:09 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:24 pm Hey Eric looking good. Keep it up guy and you'll be ready to flip in a short time. Don't forget the graphite coat will float the way you apply it, so roll and tip it carefully. You sure don't want to sand that black mess. Take care and good finishing.

Tom
Thank you Tom! :D

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the graphite coat though. What do you mean by it floating the way it is applied? :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:08 am
by topwater
I don't know if i would tip epoxy graphite but i would run a good heat gun over it to get it to flow out alittle.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:17 am
by Jaysen
topwater wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:08 am I don't know if i would tip epoxy graphite but i would run a good heat gun over it to get it to flow out alittle.
I attempted to tip my graphite. I'll never tip anything again.

Use the CL method for graphite. Even I got mirrors from that. Hot day, hot shop, small batches. The only change I had to make was putting the graphite into the mixed epoxy instead of the other way around.

Although, I'm wondering if anything will stick to your mirror polished primer ;) (that's a joke).

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:39 am
by Eric1
topwater wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:08 am I don't know if i would tip epoxy graphite but i would run a good heat gun over it to get it to flow out alittle.
Definitely part of the plan and heck no to tipping it. :)
Jaysen wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:17 am
I attempted to tip my graphite. I'll never tip anything again.

Use the CL method for graphite. Even I got mirrors from that. Hot day, hot shop, small batches. The only change I had to make was putting the graphite into the mixed epoxy instead of the other way around.

Although, I'm wondering if anything will stick to your mirror polished primer ;) (that's a joke).
:lol: What batch size did you run? One of my concerns is blending from batch to batch. I have a lot of surface to cover and that does concern me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:36 am
by jacquesmm
I do not mix the graphite in the fairing compound. I apply a light dust of graphite with a rag.
I am certain that mixing it will work but my method is used by all auto body shops and is easier.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:48 am
by Jaysen
My v12 took 2 3oz batches per layer. And that was too thick in each layer. My reason for 3oz was that I could get it out of the cup and on the hull fast enough. You MUST pre measure all your batches in separate cups (3 -- hardener in A, resin in B and graphite in C) and get it hot. Doing it again, I would use a heat gun or space heater to keep the pre measured stuff warm. My "quick mix" was
1. use one stick.
2. Stir hardener with stick (cup A)
3. Stir resin with same stick (cup B)
4. Scrape hardener into resin (cup A into B)
5. Stir about 10 times then start slowly adding graphite to resin (cup C into B)
6. WALK TO HULL WHILE STIrRING (cup B)
7. Pour onto hull in thin "zig zag".
8. Roll it out.

By the time I finished layer one, I could have started layer two, but I didn't. I changed roller after every layer. I "pre filled" roller with SLOW mixed epoxy to minimize soaking up graphite (mix 3oz/4" of roller and roll straight slow onto scrap ply)(also why I hesitated to go straight for second layer after first layer). My experience tells me that you for your c21 you will want three rollers ready to load and go as the roller will kick eventually. Better to have a spare frame with a cover and some pre measured straight ready to preload it than have your roller ruin the graphite.

I didn't need a heat gun but you may want one to smooth the seams between mixed patches. Small and fast seems to reduce that border line. Others used the gun to reduce bubbles. If I had any I didn't care or notice or both. The graphite is the ONLY finish work I was happy with.

And to reiterate a point CL made DO NOT try to dry sand it. I wouldn't bother sanding it at all, but you are ... you. Sand wet. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:26 am
by Eric1
jacquesmm wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:36 am I do not mix the graphite in the fairing compound. I apply a light dust of graphite with a rag.
I am certain that mixing it will work but my method is used by all auto body shops and is easier.
Jacques, I was referring to the epoxy graphite mix for the bottom. Not for fairing. Thanks for looking out for me. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:57 am
by jacquesmm
Oops, sorry. I was reading a post about fairing at the same time.
Yes, the Cracker Larry method for graphite bottoms is the way to go, the only way.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:51 pm
by Eric1
Well I finished sanding the primer on the bottom. As I moved the work light, the primer revealed a Butt load of pin holes.
Would epoxy and graphite cover these? Maybe, but I don't want to chance them becoming fish eyes in the graphite.
Going to go mix a small batch of Quick Fair. This will come to a close at some point. :P

Filled.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:07 pm
by MrPaul
Yours is looking great! Sure hope mine comes to a close soon. I want to start building again.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:22 pm
by TomW1
Eric pinholes will be filled by the graphite coating. Your going to be putting 3-4 coats on with a 25-33% ratio

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:29 pm
by Jaysen
Tom, what do you think of 5? I'm finding 3 isn't holding up well. Granted I'm bashing on concrete and shells. The sand isn't helping either.

Eric, what topcoat are you using? I k ow you've mentioned it but I can't recall.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:48 pm
by cape_fisherman
You're doing right by filling the pin holes. There is a certain satisfaction to going the extra mile.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:06 am
by Fuzz
Heck Eric at this point even I am rooting for you to take the time to make it perfect :D
But that in no way means I am not looking forward to seeing some paint on this girl. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:30 am
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:29 pm Tom, what do you think of 5? I'm finding 3 isn't holding up well. Granted I'm bashing on concrete and shells. The sand isn't helping either.

Eric, what topcoat are you using? I k ow you've mentioned it but I can't recall.
EMC Haze Gray.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:09 am
by BB Sig
Eric1 wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:30 am
EMC Haze Gray.
Did you spend too much time sanding primer and it stuck that the boat its now supposed to be gray?! :wink:

I am amazed at your patience and diligence on this build!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:16 am
by Jaysen
That EMC covers a LOT of sins. It filled all but the biggest pin holes for me. Getting them now will make that EMC a dream finish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:18 am
by Browndog
Looking good and getting real close now. Keep it up!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:15 am
by topwater
I am pretty sure that's the color of my boat 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:04 am
by Eric1
Thanks every one. Barry that's funny stuff!
No, Actually when I chose the C21 it reminded me of the Veitnam era river boats. I always liked the look of them. I think of my Dad when I see them and all the stories he told me. These were Tough small craft!

Image

I had to push myself this morning. My lower back is sore and I am having another go with my annual infection flaring up. :x
I sanded all the pin holes I had filled. Also went over entire bottom again with 120 and a kiss with a 220 block.
Just rolled her back inside from another wash down. It's only 72 this morning but the humidity is hanging like a cloud.
I'm too tired to start messing with primer so it can hang.

Image

I really appreciate all the encouragement you guys give me. It helps me stay at it! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:08 am
by BB Sig
Take care of yourself! Sometimes we all need a break. :wink:

Let us know when we can start mounting this:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:16 pm
by Jeff
Eric, Those Vietnam River boats were MEAN Machines!!!! Your boat is really looking "Slick"!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:45 am
by csotelo
Hey Eric,

The boat is looking really good! You are doing an amazing job!

Congrats,

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:07 am
by Eric1
I started with a trip to Lowes. They mixed the EMC Surface primer for me. Just to check it, I also mixed it with a rotary mixer.
I combined a total of 8 ounces. This is a very different animal than the S3 Primer. It has a very profound smell. If you use the EMC make sure you are in a WELL ventilated space! Also, You have a 30-45 second window of roll time. After that it gets very sticky and will pull at the roller. I try to slightly over lap when I roll to level out from the previous rolled area. The EMC does not like that at all. I don't know if I will continue to use it. I'll decide after it dries and I see what I have to work with. I think the EMC primer is probably best sprayed. :doh:

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:13 am
by topwater
I did use a gallon of EMC high build primer to finish the inside of the hull and pilot house on my build.
I didn't notice any of the problems that you mentioned so it must be a different animal than the surface
primer. I also didn't like it as much as the S3 high build.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:20 am
by Aripeka Angler
I have not used the EMC primer but I have used a bunch of their paint.
I use a 3M cartridge type respirator with the stuff, it smells horrible.
Which roller cover did you use?
Looking forward to seeing what the primer looks like when it dries :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:30 am
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:20 am I have not used the EMC primer but I have used a bunch of their paint.
I use a 3M cartridge type respirator with the stuff, it smells horrible.
Which roller cover did you use?
Looking forward to seeing what the primer looks like when it dries :)
4" hard foam roller.
I just got off the phone with Robin at EMC. She says it should not act that way.
She's going to talk with some one there and call me back.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:32 am
by Aripeka Angler
I'm very interested to hear what she says...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:43 am
by Jeff
Yes Eric, let us know what Robin says about the EMC Primer!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:51 pm
by Eric1
Status update. Five hours have past since I applied the primer. I should be able to sand after four according to instructions. Primer feels to have a rubbery touch. It's hard to cut with 220 paper. I'm not getting balls or prills from sanding but the powder is cake loading the paper. I'm going to wait until morning before going any further.
Robin at EMC has been informed of the situation. She still has not heard back from her chemist.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:03 pm
by cvincent
Eric,

Sorry you are having problems with the primer. Do you have the reducer? If the primer is going on too thick, try reducing the primer. I used the reducer for both the primer and paint to thin which allowed better flow out. Its hard to say what to do without laying eyes on the finish you are getting. Let the primer dry and try sanding, you may find the results are acceptable.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:04 pm
by Eric1
I just had another conversation with Robin at EMC. In a nut shell she is going to replace the product for me!! :D
She is going to check with the chemist to see if he wants the old product in return for testing. I told her I'd ship it if that's the case.
It is so nice to work with a company that offers technical help and expertise on the phone!
Not only that, but the fact I'm seeing this level of support really blows me away. It's almost unheard of in today's world.
KUDOS to Miss Robin and EMC!!! :D :D :D

I also want to thank Jeff at Boat Builders Central. I know he has also been in touch with her trying to figure out what's going on with the primer.
I think I've been on the phone with him about a half dozen times today and he's been nothing but patient and helpful trying to get this resolved!!
Great job Jeff!! :D :D :D

I don't know how many more boats I'll build but I dang sure know where I'll get my supplies!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:11 am
by BB Sig
8) Great outcome from a bad experience!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:08 am
by Jeff
Eric, thank you for the kind comments!! Regarding EMC and Robin at EMC, they are really good people to work with and always there to help you, even over the phone. Still nice to get a voice rather than have to search through a website for help!! Let me know when the new stuff arrives!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:09 am
by Jeff
Eric, thank you for the kind comments!! Regarding EMC and Robin at EMC, they are really good people to work with and always there to help you, even over the phone. Still nice to get a voice rather than have to search through a website for help!! Let me know when the new stuff arrives!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:58 pm
by Eric1
Spent the better part of the day sanding the primer from yesterday. It still is not done. It's been very tough to sand although it did harden more overnight. Now the transom is two colors, gray from the S3 primer and white from the EMC. :lol:
So far everything is staying covered and that's all I care about for now.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:07 pm
by Jeff
You are almost there Eric!! I spoke with Robin (EMC) and told her to go to the forum to see your comments!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:24 pm
by cape_fisherman
Have you considered spraying...or are you stuck on rolling?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:56 am
by Eric1
cape_fisherman wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:24 pm Have you considered spraying...or are you stuck on rolling?
I wish I could spray but I have nowhere to do it. Rolling will have to do.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:19 am
by glossieblack
Given your persistence, her paint job will turn out great. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:40 am
by Noles309
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:07 am I started with a trip to Lowes. They mixed the EMC Surface primer for me. Just to check it
Did Lowes just shake it for you or did you trust them to add the reducer/catalyst? If you relied on them to really mix the primer for you that may be your answer. Just asking because it really wasn't clear to me. I took kiwi grip there to be tinted and they looked at me like I had two heads. They have absolutely no experience in dealing with automotive or marine type coatings.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:47 am
by Eric1
Noles309 wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:40 am
Eric1 wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:07 am I started with a trip to Lowes. They mixed the EMC Surface primer for me. Just to check it
Did Lowes just shake it for you or did you trust them to add the reducer/catalyst? If you relied on them to really mix the primer for you that may be your answer. Just asking because it really wasn't clear to me. I took kiwi grip there to be tinted and they looked at me like I had two heads. They have absolutely no experience in dealing with automotive or marine type coatings.
All Lowes did was shake the product. I also mixed it with a stir mixer. No reducer was added.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:32 pm
by Eric1
Well, As promised Robin got new primer, activator and reducer to me today.
I'm waiting on a respirator and filters to come in. The chemicals made my head a little swimmy after I did the transom.
Yesterday evening after sanding this stuff I was wheezy and not breathing well. I looked everywhere this morning but could not find my old respirator so waiting on Amazon.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:06 pm
by Fuzz
Good move getting a respirator. Male sure you have the right cartridge for what you are working with. When doing heavy sanding/grinding I like to use a full face respirator. It sure seems to me like a lot of the paint products are nasty to work with. And to make it worse I think the better the paint the more nasty it is to work with. Be interesting to hear what others think.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:01 pm
by TomW1
I agree with Fuzz make sure you have the right cartridge or you may as well not be using the respirator.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:29 pm
by cvincent
I use a couple of box fans upwind to suck the fumes away from the boat and out my garage door. The fans are not explosion proof, but so far so good.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:48 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I'm guessing you bought a 3m mask or something similar.
You want a OV or VOC cartridge. I have the cartridge product model numbers for 3m at the shop.
If you need them, give me a holler.
Good to hear that EMC is taking care of you 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:50 pm
by Eric1
Thank guys. It was a 3M full face model. I read the chemical list to the 3M rep on the phone. She told me what to order.
Shop duties have me pulled away from the build for now.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:48 am
by blueflood
Hi Eric,

Full face respirator is the way to go, plus you will need it for the Monstaliner :wink: I should have done my research and bought one of those as well :oops: :roll:

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:52 am
by Eric1
Good Morning, The respirator performed well. I'm not dizzy after using the EMC primer. :)
Test number two. I mixed four ounces. Put on respirator and rolled it over the bare spots.
This time the primer didn't smell like a dead animal fell in it. It was still very sticky after a minute.
Perhaps the MEK or what ever chemical ate through the solo cup is attacking the roller, I don't know. :roll:
I think this primer is best suited for a spray set up, which I'm not going to do. I covered the places I think could cause issues with top coat.
I've had enough of this. After I sand this I'm calling the primer work done.
I'll move forward and put the epoxy graphite on the bottom. If the paint doesn't stick to the primed surface then I'll haul this out back and strike a freaking match. :wink:

Image

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:01 am
by Fuzz
Not to worry she would look good with just primer. Sort of the PBR look like you showed earlier :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:02 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:01 am Not to worry she would look good with just primer. Sort of the PBR look like you showed earlier :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:02 am
by Jaysen
That boat will turn heads. You'll have a hard time getting her in and out of the water. You'll be mobbed with drooling on lookers.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:54 pm
by topwater
you should have no problems it looks much nicer than mine did when i painted it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:09 pm
by blueflood
Hi Eric,
:lol: strike a match ? Bro, so many times that crossed my head :lol: Looking great.

Why not S3 High Build ? Water based and zippo fumes.
Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:44 pm
by Eric1
blueflood wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:09 pm Hi Eric,
:lol: strike a match ? Bro, so many times that crossed my head :lol: Looking great.

Why not S3 High Build ? Water based and zippo fumes.
Marc
I thought by using surface primer I could lighty sand over the trouble spots as it would not build as heavy. This EMC stuff orange peels worse than S3. Next time I will only use the S3. I just prefer it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:00 am
by glossieblack
Eric1 wrote: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:52 am I've had enough of this. After I sand this I'm calling the primer work done. I'll move forward and put the epoxy graphite on the bottom.
Good call. 8) :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:13 am
by Jeff
Eric, I know it was quite an excercise for you but your experience might help other builders make a good, informed decision on which Primer to use!! Have a good Sunday!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:15 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Everyone for the kind words and interest. :D
After a long business meeting I decided to sand the places I had applied the surface primer. It sanded well without the fumes/odor of the first stuff.
Never the less, I'll stick with S3 primer from now on. Below is a picture of what I'm calling good enough.

Image

I have a pump to install on a machine in the morning.
Once that's done I have a setup on the same machine, medical buckles for lifting large people in the hospitals.
Then, I have three programs to edit for a PITA small run of parts on a lathe. That customer decided to go backwards after 3 years of success with the design changes I made to save him money. It's his pocket that it will crunch, so be it.
Then, maybe, just maybe, I can find a window between thunderstorms to wash the boat again. We have rain forecast all week.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:23 pm
by narfi
That is God begging you to help out with the washing :P

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:26 pm
by Eric1
narfi wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:23 pm That is God begging you to help out with the washing :P
:lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:10 pm
by glossieblack
Eric, well done in persisting and getting the primer result to your high standards. Now wash that baby then give her a slap of black on the bottom. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:36 pm
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:10 pm Eric, well done in persisting and getting the primer result to your high standards. Now wash that baby then give her a slap of black on the bottom. :D
Thank You Glossie.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:14 pm
by TomW1
Eric glad things turned out for you in the end. Go get her with the graqhite.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:21 am
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:14 pm Eric glad things turned out for you in the end. Go get her with the graqhite.

Tom
Thank You Tom! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:37 pm
by danieloldhouse
Eric1 wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:15 pm Thanks Everyone for the kind words and interest. :D
After a long business meeting I decided to sand the places I had applied the surface primer. It sanded well without the fumes/odor of the first stuff.
Never the less, I'll stick with S3 primer from now on. Below is a picture of what I'm calling good enough.

Image

I have a pump to install on a machine in the morning.
Once that's done I have a setup on the same machine, medical buckles for lifting large people in the hospitals.
Then, I have three programs to edit for a PITA small run of parts on a lathe. That customer decided to go backwards after 3 years of success with the design changes I made to save him money. It's his pocket that it will crunch, so be it.
Then, maybe, just maybe, I can find a window between thunderstorms to wash the boat again. We have rain forecast all week.
8O 8O 8O 8O I've been away for a while due to a bad accident on work, I got a shoulder dislocated, three ribs broken and six points on my head but thanks God I'm still around, and man.. what a nice work!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:04 pm
by Eric1
danieloldhouse wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:37 pm 8O 8O 8O 8O I've been away for a while due to a bad accident on work, I got a shoulder dislocated, three ribs broken and six points on my head but thanks God I'm still around, and man.. what a nice work!
My goodness! I'm glad you are still with us!! I pray you will heal quickly.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:44 pm
by Fuzz
SO......................where is this black bottom :?: Waiting................waiting..........waiting :lol: :lol:
Do not tell me that nasty old thing called work is getting in the way of what is important :help:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:51 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:44 pm SO......................where is this black bottom :?: Waiting................waiting..........waiting :lol: :lol:
Do not tell me that nasty old thing called work is getting in the way of what is important :help:
I got the work knocked out yesterday, now it's weather. Best chance to wash her will be today! I am concerned about the cool temps though. Cracker Larry said this needs to be done on a hot day. I don't know how well it will go in the mid 70's. Plus I hope to line up a helper to mix epoxy while I lay it down.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:28 am
by Jaysen
Use something to warm up the resin. CL suggested the hot day to facilitate viscosity of the epoxy. You need it runny.

Because you are not me or fuzz don't forget:
1. Have spare roller frames with high end rollers ready to go.
2. have a heat gun ready to nuke air bubbles.
3. SIFT THE GRAPHITE
4. Do not use the very end of the cup. If you have lumps that's where they live and you will go nuts trying to remove them once they are on the hull.
5. Since you seem to love sanding, do NOT dry sand that stuff. You really need to wet sand it.
6. Use many THIN COATS instead of a few medium coats. You will be much happier with the result.
7. Don't forget the stagger your tape lines and remove tape after the epoxy sets a bit.

With a hull that size you can probably just go from coat to coat with no real pause. Tape, start at on end working toward other, pull tape, retape, start at end and work toward other, pull tape, repeat. Set aside a number of hours.

Make sure you have some small batches of straight ready to mix to preload the roller when you have to switch frames. That will save you from wasting the graphite mix.

I'm sure you'll knock this out making it look like a mirror. Can't wait to see it.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:19 am
by Jeff
Eric, how much has it cooled off up there? Still really hot here in FL!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:37 am
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:19 am Eric, how much has it cooled off up there? Still really hot here in FL!! Jeff
High today is only suppose to be 78. Current is 68, cloudy slight breeze.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:42 am
by Jeff
Wow, big change for you!!! Still VERY hot here in Florida!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:53 pm
by Eric1
I'm prepping for epoxy graphite coating on the bottom. This line is at a 10" waterline. I'll move it down a half inch at a time until I get to 11 inches. Planning 3 coats of EG.

Image

I had to razor trim the frog tape on the spray rail. It did not want to follow the curve.

Image

Next up I wrapped shrink wrap from top edge to the bottom over lapping it to keep any drip off my primer.
I used more frog tape from waterline to shrink wrap.

Image

Best I could do. Holding the line over the spray rails is dang near impossible.

Image

I used poly coated paper on the transom. I don't know why.

Image


Before I start putting the graphite on the bottom I'm going to do a test board using different rollers to see what I think does best.
I have a 3/8" nap roller, a 1/4" nap roller and foam. I also want to see if tipping will bring anything to the picture.
I'll get this set up this afternoon.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:02 pm
by Jeff
Eric, as usual, first class prep work!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:02 pm
by BB Sig
Looking good! I'm looking forward to your test results.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:05 pm
by Jaysen
Foam. No tip. You don't have much working time. Tipping will leave you with rough streaks.

I'd seriously consider more than three coats. While the graphite is hard it does take a beating. Especially in the impact/rub areas. When I get to the point of redoing Lil Bit I'm going to shoot for at least 6. I'm hoping that will last a bit longer.

That looks like some awesome prep. You will appreciate that.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:13 pm
by Eric1
Ok, Test board set up at an angle to match (close) the hull. This is to evaluate leveling and runs.

Image

Here are the rollers I will be testing. The cheap brush is to test tipping.

Image

I appreciate all the advice on this but I have to see for myself. :D
See y'all in the morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:53 pm
by Jeff
I look forward to your test!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:06 pm
by Jaysen
Eric, I used the 4" foam rollers. I had no issues with the foam, but they are too narrow. You wind up with overlap ridges if you apply to thick. Also, with the quick kick of hot epoxy, you go through them a lot faster than a wide roller. Ideally I'd use a 12" foam roller presoaked in 6oz cold slow, then use that to apply 12oz batches of hot medium/fast. I'd do the "pour it in the hull" trick with the pour lines running bow to transom at the keel. I'd then roll from keel to side spreading the graphite out.

I'll still suggest many, very thin coats. That will reduce the roller overlap thickness, increase overall thickness of the coating and I believe it will result in a smoother finish (no sanding till third coat which is when it will really start to cover).

I'm also anxious to see how your testing turns out.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:36 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:06 pm Eric, I used the 4" foam rollers. I had no issues with the foam, but they are too narrow. You wind up with overlap ridges if you apply to thick. Also, with the quick kick of hot epoxy, you go through them a lot faster than a wide roller. Ideally I'd use a 12" foam roller presoaked in 6oz cold slow, then use that to apply 12oz batches of hot medium/fast. I'd do the "pour it in the hull" trick with the pour lines running bow to transom at the keel. I'd then roll from keel to side spreading the graphite out.

I'll still suggest many, very thin coats. That will reduce the roller overlap thickness, increase overall thickness of the coating and I believe it will result in a smoother finish (no sanding till third coat which is when it will really start to cover).

I'm also anxious to see how your testing turns out.
I agree with the thin coat execution. I was thinking transom forward, keel to chine. Not sure about the hardener though. If temps stay like this I would go with medium. Once we get back to normal I would say slow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:31 pm
by Jaysen
I tried slow. It was just as fast to kick as fast once you heated it up to make it runny. But it took for ever to get from "unable to be spread' to "ready for next coat". I think the temp was in the mid 80s when I did it. The magic formula I finally hit was preloading the foam roller with slow to make it last longer and helping reduce the impact of the quick kick.

Just remember ... WET SAND ... you don't want to dry sand that stuff.

I bet you you can't "not sand" it. I dare you to try.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:05 pm
by MrPaul
Jaysen wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:31 pm I bet you you can't "not sand" it. I dare you to try.
Eric might get the jitters if there's no opportunity to sand :lol:

Either way the boat is looking good and I'm sure the graphite will come out great. Looks like all the hard work and attention to detail is paying off nicely.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:07 am
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:05 pm
Jaysen wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:31 pm I bet you you can't "not sand" it. I dare you to try.
Eric might get the jitters if there's no opportunity to sand :lol:

Either way the boat is looking good and I'm sure the graphite will come out great. Looks like all the hard work and attention to detail is paying off nicely.
You guys crack me up! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:41 am
by topwater
I am with Jaysen on this, it will be all you can do to walk away from the boat after you finish the graphite .
I bet you end up wet sanding it :wink: Remember put the sanding block down and slowly back away from the boat :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:12 am
by Eric1
I just finished the roller test with the epoxy graphite.
In an effort to eliminate any lumps I prepped the graphite in a coffee mill first.
Then I filtered it through a sieve. I used an 80 mesh (180 micron/.007" inch) to insure there was no foreign crap in my graphite.
The kitchen strainer Cracker Larry use is not fine enough in my opinion. If you wish to use what I did they can be purchased here:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#sieves/=18vo9dk

Next I made a stainless steel stir mixer to incorporate the powder into the epoxy. I really don't intend to heat up the epoxy to get the graphite to blend.
This does induce a tiny amount of air but the design keeps that to a minimum.

Image

I proceeded to mix two 6 ounce batches of Marine epoxy and slow hardener. Shop temp was 70 degrees.
I used the first batch to pre-load the rollers with out any graphite. Jaysen suggested it and I agree with the logic.
The second batch was hand stirred for one minute to blend the epoxy. then the graphite was added and hand mixed until it was wet.
Then I drill mixed it for another minute or so. It was emulsified perfectly. I poured straight from the cup from top to bottom and side to side.

Each surface was done one at a time.
I started with the 3/8" nap Purdy roller from Lowes. It loaded well and it covered quickly and evenly with minimum fiber release.

Next was the 4" 1/4" red Corona nap roller from Boat Builder Central. This roller is designed for applying epoxy over fiberglass cloth. It rolled well with firm pressure but it tended to apply the epoxy to thin for my liking. I believe it will be great for pushing epoxy into fiberglass cloth but the nap is to short to perform in this.

Next up was the 7" 3/8" nap Corona roller from BBC. It perform very similar to the 9" Purdy roller. The nap seems a bit thicker than the Purdy and thus it soaked up more epoxy. It seemed to leave a tiny bit more fiber in the epoxy but I would not hesitate to use these.

Last was the 4" epoxy foam roller from BBC. It did as expected. At first it tends not to roll and just pushes the epoxy until you have moved the epoxy around enough to thin it on the work surface. If you use these you must apply a very small amount of epoxy if you expect it to actually roll. Now, that said, it seemed to produce the best surface finish at the time of rolling. The key is to very lightly roll with it. Think of it as almost tipping with a roller.

Last, I tipped the lower half of all the test panel with a cheap brush. In my opinion it is a waste of time. Though it did induce light streaks they quickly leveled out. As always when tipping an incline you must tip horizontally. If you tip vertically those streaks will not lay down and will tend to produce runs. The only place I will tip is on the strakes and bottom of the spray rail. When I applied primer with the foam roller on those surfaces it induced air bubbles.

Here are the resulting panels. This was on bare wood. It sucked epoxy into the grain so keep that in mind when seeing the unevenness of the results.

Image

Final thoughts, I will most likely go with Purdy rollers because of the quick coverage. Followed up with a foam roller. I think a finely notched
spreader would be ideal to spread this out and then roll with foam. I would have to make one and I'm not going to invest the time to tune the spreader for this. I hope this has helped any one who had the same questions I did.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:15 pm
by Jaysen
Eric, warming the epoxy is not to mix it but to thin it for easier spreading. I experienced the same "no roll in the roller" until I heated the resin. Once hot it was very thin and a poured line did not hold firm (ran down slope) making it very easy to spread.

I know you've completed your test, but consider making a test batch with wanted resin and use the foam roller to apply. That was the magic solution for me.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:46 pm
by Reid
Eric,

Everything is looking really good! (with the exception of that Clemson cup, I will find you a nice FSU one for your next round of photos!!)

Reid

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:24 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:15 pm Eric, warming the epoxy is not to mix it but to thin it for easier spreading. I experienced the same "no roll in the roller" until I heated the resin. Once hot it was very thin and a poured line did not hold firm (ran down slope) making it very easy to spread.

I know you've completed your test, but consider making a test batch with wanted resin and use the foam roller to apply. That was the magic solution for me.
Perhaps, I'll think about it. I know Cracker Larry had stated this as an issue.
Reid wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:46 pm Eric,

Everything is looking really good! (with the exception of that Clemson cup, I will find you a nice FSU one for your next round of photos!!)

Reid
Thanks Reid! Don't send the cup though, I have plenty of things to shoot at up here! :P :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:35 pm
by tcason
I find the epoxy much easier to use when at 85 degrees - it is much thinner and really flows - almost like heavy varnish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 pm
by Fuzz
Dang if I had to wait until it was 85f to use epoxy I would need to do it all in one day every decade or so.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:48 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 pm Dang if I had to wait until it was 85f to use epoxy I would need to do it all in one day every decade or so.
Bingo!
Will the epoxy flow better? Sure. Is that enough issue to have me to warm up the epoxy? Not at all.
Does heating it up yield a much nicer finish? Dubious, It's still not going to look great.

Pro's:
Wets out graphite and roll easier.

Cons:
Waiting to heat it up.
Shorter pot life.
Having to rush to use it because of reduced pot life.

To each his own. As most of you have already said, I'll end up wet sanding this anyway. I promise it will ONLY be enough to knock off the worst of it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:56 pm
by narfi
Eric1 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:48 pm
Pro's:
Wets out graphite and roll easier.

Cons:
Waiting to heat it up.
Shorter pot life.
Having to rush to use it because of reduced pot life.
I think you have proven to be meticulous with your build so far. So I would have thought you would do every 'little trick' to make it nicer...
It seems like a pretty simple thing to set the jugs of epoxy in hot water for 15 minutes before you start so thats not really a big deal.
Shorter pot life also shouldn't be a big deal as you are immediately pouring it out and rolling it, so it will be over a thin area and still doable in your time window.
Having to rush... yes probably, but how long does it really take to roll out a nearly horizontal surface anyways?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:01 pm
by Jaysen
heating is relative in complexity. I just used an oil radiator and set my cups of resin (just the resin) on top. I found that I could mix, dump, spread up to 6oz before kicking but 3oz was less rushed in mixing. With bigger rollers 6oz would have been even easier. I do think the finish is noticeably smoother where I used warmed epoxy. Granted my standards are low but it is noticeable. Part of it may be that the higher flow paired with the faster kick let it "slick then freeze" before I could mess it up with extra attempts at smoothing.

That said, you will get good results with your attention to detail and sanding no matter what you do with the temp. Can't wait to see that black mirror finish.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:02 pm
by Eric1
narfi wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:56 pm
Eric1 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:48 pm
Pro's:
Wets out graphite and roll easier.

Cons:
Waiting to heat it up.
Shorter pot life.
Having to rush to use it because of reduced pot life.
I think you have proven to be meticulous with your build so far. So I would have thought you would do every 'little trick' to make it nicer...
It seems like a pretty simple thing to set the jugs of epoxy in hot water for 15 minutes before you start so thats not really a big deal.
Shorter pot life also shouldn't be a big deal as you are immediately pouring it out and rolling it, so it will be over a thin area and still doable in your time window.
Having to rush... yes probably, but how long does it really take to roll out a nearly horizontal surface anyways?
You left this part of the quote out:


Bingo!
Will the epoxy flow better? Sure. Is that enough issue to have me to warm up the epoxy? Not at all.
Does heating it up yield a much nicer finish? Dubious, It's still not going to look great.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:01 am
by danieloldhouse
Eric1 wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:04 pm
danieloldhouse wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:37 pm 8O 8O 8O 8O I've been away for a while due to a bad accident on work, I got a shoulder dislocated, three ribs broken and six points on my head but thanks God I'm still around, and man.. what a nice work!
My goodness! I'm glad you are still with us!! I pray you will heal quickly.
Thanks Eric, prayers are always well accepted, anyway now it's going much better :P
I'm really impressed for the accuracy with which you do everything, how you search every little flaw and try to fit it, it's gonna be a very nice boat :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:08 am
by glossieblack
danieloldhouse wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:01 am I'm really impressed for the accuracy with which you do everything, how you search every little flaw and try to fit it, it's gonna be a very nice boat :wink:
Yep. Well said.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:40 pm
by Browndog
Based on your previous work and attention to detail I'm confident that whatever you do will be top notch. Didn't mean to be a naysayer on the cradle approach vs. trailer in your other post.

You will make the best choice for your situation and it will set the bar for all of us to try and emulate. Keep up the fabulous work!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:19 pm
by Eric1
Browndog wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:40 pm Based on your previous work and attention to detail I'm confident that whatever you do will be top notch. Didn't mean to be a naysayer on the cradle approach vs. trailer in your other post.

You will make the best choice for your situation and it will set the bar for all of us to try and emulate. Keep up the fabulous work!
Thanks and I asked for thoughts and opinions on the trailer idea. I have not decided yet. If I go trailer it will have multiple bunks. I don't mind a different view from anyone. In the end I'll decide what I think works best for me. Thanks again for the compliments. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:39 pm
by glossieblack
You'll spend more time building with the hull right way up than you have to date. IMO, from here on, the more of the build you can do from outside the boat, the easier it will be. I'd make choices on trailer vs cradle etc, based on this.

To date I've built Skinnydip mostly from the outside, and I don't see that changing.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:53 pm
by Eric1
How I spent my morning. :D
This is five 6 ounce batches with 2 ounces of graphite per batch.

Image

Other side

Image

Close up

Image

Pulled tape, It was clean.

Image

In the morning I'll strike the next waterline an secure the tape for wet sanding. It won't take much as the test board I did was not this smooth and require very little sanding. This should take even less.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:08 pm
by pee wee
I think most guys would look at results like that and do a little dance, say good enough and carry on. That looks great, glad it went well for you.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:12 pm
by Jeff
Eric, That is a great finish!! You must be happy with these results!! Again, great work, lots of prep-work to get there but again, great job!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:21 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:12 pm Eric, That is a great finish!! You must be happy with these results!! Again, great work, lots of prep-work to get there but again, great job!! Jeff
Thank You Jeff. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:23 pm
by Eric1
pee wee wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:08 pm I think most guys would look at results like that and do a little dance, say good enough and carry on. That looks great, glad it went well for you.
Thank You too Hank. :D I'm pretty happy with it. We'll see what a couple more coats do. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:22 pm
by Fuzz
Just as I suspected.........dang thing looks like it came out of a high dollar mold :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:41 pm
by Reid
Looks pretty damn smooth Eric!!! That has got to be the nicest graphite job I have seen. Well done Sir!

Reid

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:06 pm
by Eric1
Thank You, Fuzz and Reid. :D It went pretty good. I had to get real busy with batch number two. I spilled about half of the cup on the hull and a lot got covered VERY fast! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:22 pm
by Jeff
Eric, Just called you at the shop, well about 30 minutes ago!! I will catch-up with you tomorrow!! Again, really well done!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:52 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:22 pm Eric, Just called you at the shop, well about 30 minutes ago!! I will catch-up with you tomorrow!! Again, really well done!! Jeff
Sorry Friend, I had to go home. I promised my girls I would cook some salmon and asparagus for them tonight. I left early to pick everything up.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:27 pm
by TomW1
That looks awesome Eric.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:43 pm
by MrPaul
I've been checking this thread the last couple of days wondering when I was going to click onto the mirror finish. Looks great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:16 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
The graphite looks fantastic, like the rest of your build. If you don't mind me asking, what tape did you use to mask the outline as you said it came away very clean? Alan.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 pm
by Eric1
Thank You Alan. :D It was "Frog Tape".

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:23 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Tom and MrPaul! :D
Man, All y'all have really made feel good with comments. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:08 am
by Fuzz
Just to show what a good sport I am I will let you sand and graphite the bottom of my next boat :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:15 am
by glossieblack
Late to the party, but very nicely done Eric. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:28 am
by blueflood
Good show Eric.
Fuzz wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:08 am Just to show what a good sport I am I will let you sand and graphite the bottom of my next boat :D
:lol: :lol:
Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:08 am Just to show what a good sport I am I will let you sand and graphite the bottom of my next boat :D
Wow Fuzz! That is mighty kind of you! :lol:

Thanks Glossieblack and Marc!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:40 pm
by BB Sig
Beautiful work Squid! Truly a masters hand at work... 8)

I think Fuzz was offering to pay your way to Alaska.... 8O :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:47 pm
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:40 pm Beautiful work Squid! Truly a masters hand at work... 8)

I think Fuzz was offering to pay your way to Alaska.... 8O :lol:
Thank You My Crayon Eating Friend! 8)

If that's what Fuzz is offering I might take up the offer. My luck, I'd get up there and have to fair and coat a 100' hull. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:41 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Eric1 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:20 pm Thank You Alan. :D It was "Frog Tape".
I love that stuff, I have a roll of it.
I kinda thought it looked familiar in your pics.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:39 am
by Eric1
Not wanting this get this started. My left knee is showing out and giving me pain.
It's hot as two rats scroggin in a wool sock. :lol:
No relief on the heat until 8/25 then it is suppose to drop into the low 80's. I started anyway, gonna take it easy.

Image

It's 10:30 and this is all I have done. Having to stop and rest my knee. It really sucks getting old. :x
Wish I could go back in time and tell my younger self not to be so damn gung ho with my PT and sports.
Oh well, I digress. Onward to boat building.

Wet or Dry Sand?
That is the question. Both make a heck of a mess. For me, working a section at a time, I find dry working best. As soon as I have the surface gloss knocked down, I spray with water and wipe clean with paper towels. Wet sanded the first two section and it made a bigger mess and was more difficult to sand. This is what works for me. If you want to wet sand your boat more power to you.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:32 pm
by MrPaul
I knew it! Obsessive compulsive sanders disorder. I have it too...and there is no cure for it. Maybe we should start an OCSD support group. :lol: The only benefit of OCSD is it makes your boat look really good!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:39 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:32 pm I knew it! Obsessive compulsive sanders disorder. I have it too...and there is no cure for it. Maybe we should start an OCSD support group. :lol: The only benefit of OCSD is it makes your boat look really good!
I know it seems that way for me but I'm not gonna put epoxy on top of slick epoxy. I'm trying my best to keep this at a minimum. :lol:
With the heat and knee I not having any fun right now. :|

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:40 pm
by MrPaul
I had the same issue with the knees. Soft knee pads really help.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:45 pm
by BB Sig
The PT exercises the military uses are horrible and yes, we love abusing our bodies by trying to out do each other... :lol: :lol: Youth has it's advantages and plenty of disadvantages.

Knee pads will help. I like that suggestion. When I was stocking groceries I used them all the time.

Looking good. Carry on. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:39 am
by Fuzz
Eric1 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:47 pm
BB Sig wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:40 pm Beautiful work Squid! Truly a masters hand at work... 8)

I think Fuzz was offering to pay your way to Alaska.... 8O :lol:
Thank You My Crayon Eating Friend! 8)

If that's what Fuzz is offering I might take up the offer. My luck, I'd get up there and have to fair and coat a 100' hull. :lol:
Ticket is no problem. Size of hull to be withheld until said sander is on site :D One thing I can make as a solemn promise is it will not be too hot for sanding :lol: And I have an independent source to verify this. That would be AA :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:59 am
by blueflood
Looking sharp Eric 8) Sanding is just no fun. None whatsoever. Even worst when the hull is right side up with flaring sides and on your knees sanding above the shoulders. I bought a cheap straight-line sander to "long board" fair the hull but even that is a pain. The thing weighs 5 pounds and it wanders if the air supply is not at a constant 90 psi. It did the job though - quite efficiently but again everything is so much more comfortable and efficient when sanding in a down position regardless what tools you are using. I don't want to discourage you Bro :help: your 21 foot length will seem like 42 feet in an instant :roll: :wink:

Get some Dura-Blocks :D and keep your work space cool.
Frog Tape rocks !!

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:31 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:39 am Size of hull to be withheld until said sander is on site :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: I did fall off a cabbage truck, but it wasn't last night's! :lol: :lol: :lol:
blueflood wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:59 am Looking sharp Eric 8) Sanding is just no fun. None whatsoever. Even worst when the hull is right side up with flaring sides and on your knees sanding above the shoulders. I bought a cheap straight-line sander to "long board" fair the hull but even that is a pain. The thing weighs 5 pounds and it wanders if the air supply is not at a constant 90 psi. It did the job though - quite efficiently but again everything is so much more comfortable and efficient when sanding in a down position regardless what tools you are using. I don't want to discourage you Bro :help: your 21 foot length will seem like 42 feet in an instant :roll: :wink:

Get some Dura-Blocks :D and keep your work space cool.
Frog Tape rocks !!

Marc
I don't know if you saw way back in my build but I had the same problems with the cheap sanders. The first wore through the sanding plate where it attached to the drive. I took the second one back and bought a Hutchings. Not cheap but it is still going strong! I've already bought some knee pads to help when I go to work right side up. Still, I'm filled with a slight sense of dread to get there. My right has been repaired,. It just feels odd when I have to get on the deck. The left knee is barely holding together. The ACL is a sliver, the meniscus is worn through and as of late the knee tends to over extend causing instant pain. I'm not discouraged by your "heads up" I know all to well what is coming. I have pain pills but I hate the way I feel after they wear off. I have an herbal remedy I take as needed. The problem with that is I can program and run machinery while it's in my system. I may can spread epoxy and sand while on it. We'll see, so far I'm going with Tylenol but it won't be enough after the flip. Alright, Time to go sand some more.
Thanks every one for the kindness and encouragement! It means a lot to this wore out sailor. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:56 am
by blueflood
Hi Eric, I went back on your early build photos and yep...that's the cheapo sander :lol: A high quality one would make a difference but for less than a hundred bucks, why not try ? At this point I almost did not care about the $. I have so many left-overs...what's the difference with another $75 wasted :lol:

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:50 am
by Eric1
The first side is sanded.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:11 pm
by BB Sig
One bite gone, half an elephant left! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:28 pm
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:11 pm One bite gone, half an elephant left! :lol:
Amen! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:50 pm
by Jeff
That was a big half!! Well done!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:37 am
by glossieblack
I admire your stamina! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:36 am
by Eric1
After a weekend of rest my knee feels a lot better. I came in this morning and sanded the second side of the bottom in prep for second coat of E.G..

Image

I'm going to give her a sponge bath after lunch to remove any dust I may have missed. Then tomorrow I'll roll out the second coat.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:15 pm
by Jeff
Eric, again, that is going to be a slick bottom on your boat!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:48 pm
by Eric1
Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:15 pm Eric, again, that is going to be a slick bottom on your boat!! Jeff
I'm hoping so. As you can see I just knocked off the spikes and scuffed the surface. As ugly as it is after sanding it feels like a piece of furniture after you Pledge

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:19 pm
by Fuzz
If the next coat comes out as good as the first one I would call it good and move on. I am pretty sure you will not until you have at least three coats on it and get to sand it at least one more time though :lol:
21 foot times three times is more than 45 foot one time I think :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:32 pm
by BB Sig
You can tell it is slick in the picture. It has a nice shine! I think this is going to be one fast boat with that slick of a hull. The first time you find bottom, I expect you will cry on the inside. :lol:

I predict five coats total... One down, four to go! 8O

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:37 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:19 pm If the next coat comes out as good as the first one I would call it good and move on. I am pretty sure you will not until you have at least three coats on it and get to sand it at least one more time though :lol:
21 foot times three times is more than 45 foot one time I think :D
Jacques said three because of the way I did strakes. I found a quick way to sand it , so it's not that bad.
Peter Hagenaars brought up a good point too. He thinks I should cover the lower(outer) two strakes all the way.
I may go back and tape them off. After graphite I will have to seal them in plain epoxy so I can paint over them at the waterline though.
It will be a minor nuisance.

I'm surprised you only went with a single coat. I figure your coast is a heck of a lot more rocky than mine.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:41 pm
by Eric1
BB Sig wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:32 pm You can tell it is slick in the picture. It has a nice shine! I think this is going to be one fast boat with that slick of a hull. The first time you find bottom, I expect you will cry on the inside. :lol:

I predict five coats total... One down, four to go! 8O
Gosh I hope three get it done. 8O

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:46 pm
by BB Sig
Eric1 wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:41 pm
BB Sig wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:32 pm I predict five coats total... One down, four to go! 8O
Gosh I hope three get it done. 8O
You sanded one coat almost all the way off. :lol: I still count that coat because you put it on. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:34 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Very nice job on the graphite bottom paint. :D Looks perfect from here!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:09 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:34 pm Very nice job on the graphite bottom paint. :D Looks perfect from here!
Thanks Buddy. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:32 pm
by Jeff
Agree with AA, looks really nice and confident it will finish beautifully!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:23 pm
by Fuzz
No matter how many coats you end up putting on it I just know it will end up looking perfect :D The only problem the way I see it is the first time you bump into something you are going to lay down and cry :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:26 am
by Fair WX Pilot
I'm thinking you wont want to put this boat up on a beach anytime soon. Looks fantastic.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:45 am
by Eric1
Thanks everyone! There are a couple of places I sometimes have to beach but not often. As far as rubbing the hull, I think every boat owner cries when that happens. The worst for me was a time we were catching bait at a jetty. Lessons learned: Barnacle encrust rocks will badly scar your bottom and that 10 yard hole full of menhaden is only 5 feet wide when throwing a cast net. :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:25 pm
by TomW1
Eric check your PM.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:04 am
by glossieblack
Nice work Eric. Looking forward to the flip. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:24 am
by Eric1
Well I have the final waterline taped off. The bottom has been scuffed ans washed. Now if I just had time to roll the last coat on.
I have some parts to set up and run. Tomorrow I have to run the dog to the clipper and may not have time to roll. Saturday, My brother and nephew are going with me to pick up a bunch of marine ply from Tom so I won't roll Saturday. I am going to run one final application test today to see if a slight change in the formula and roll type with yield a smoother finish. I had a Bunch of air bubbles on the last coat and I am going to see if I can get rid of most of them (hopefully all of them). I also plan to have a heat gun handy for the test board. I'm going to cut the graphite to 15% of total mix and see if I like it.

Here is the final waterline taped up.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:59 pm
by Eric1
Final application test. This make the thinnest coating so far. Bubbles were very tiny and there is some fiber even though I prepped the roller.
The heat gun performed well to break the bubbles up and flatten the EG. Tipping was again a waste of time. The pictures don't show the results as well as in person. I will go with nap roller and heat gun for final coat.


1/4 Nap Roller alone. 3 ounce mixed with 1/2 ounce graphite and 6 drops of black epoxy dye.

Image

This section was same roller plus heat gun.

Image

Last section, same roller, heat gun and tipped with foam brush dipped in alcohol.

Image

Side view of panel.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:08 pm
by peter-curacao
Try to warm the test pieces before rolling, if that works maybe the heater under the hull I was telling you about isn't such a bad idea?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:33 pm
by Eric1
Peter, I think I'm going to roll the boat outside and let the sun warm the hull for a couple of hours before I put the last coat on it. I have no good way of warming from underneath. I have a small space heater but I doubt it will transfer enough heat make a difference.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:00 pm
by Jaysen
I haven't read the CL tips in a while but I think:
1. You should reduce graphite in each layer by 30%
2. The warmed resin/heat gun addresses bubbles. Heat gun pointed right at bubbles but fat enough away that it doesn't ripple the surface.

CL was pretty adamant about this being the one time heat was your friend.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:22 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:00 pm I haven't read the CL tips in a while but I think:
1. You should reduce graphite in each layer by 30%
2. The warmed resin/heat gun addresses bubbles. Heat gun pointed right at bubbles but fat enough away that it doesn't ripple the surface.

CL was pretty adamant about this being the one time heat was your friend.
Hey Jaysen, Look for the words "builder's tips" in small letters on the forum header. He doesn't say to reduce the graphite. I don't think the black dye I have is compatible with the Marine epoxy. I rolled that panel right before lunch and when I checked it a 5:15 it still had a slight tack. Heat gun was a plus. Next week we are suppose to have highs in the low 80's. That means I will have to warm my resin in the mornings.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:21 pm
by TomW1
Eric nice meeting you and your brother and nephew yesterday.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:08 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:21 pm Eric nice meeting you and your brother and nephew yesterday.

Tom
Nice to meet you as well Tom. We really enjoyed lunch with you and look forward to coming back that way. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:13 am
by TomW1

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:50 am
by glossieblack
Eric, you're keeping those of us avidly following you build in suspense When will the graphite be finished!? When's the flip!? :lol: : :lol:

Informative article that thanks Tom. It seems counter-intuitive that the world's most sophisticated navy has been colliding with merchant ships recently. The article provides a plausible explanation why. :o

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:35 am
by Fuzz
By my count there is at least three more rounds of graphite and sanding to go before we can even hope for a flip :help: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:02 am
by Eric1
Terrible to see more confirmation of our suspicions Tom. SECNAV and MCON should be all over this. Operational readiness goes far beyond the equipment. The sailors must be awake for all the gear to have worth. I sat many watches in CIC, not because it was my job,but I wanted to learn all I could about our electronics. Work an 8 hour day then spend 4 or more hours watching a radar screen tracking everything out to #### nautical miles and you would understand. Tom I know you get it but civilians have no clue. Sailors should be known for endurance not their ability for swabbing decks. I hope the NAVY gets on top of this jiffy quick before more lives are lost.


As for my build, She awaits the final coat of graphite. Sorry to disappoint you Fuzz, I hope you didn't wager to much money on that. :lol:
I have been waiting for a window to open up on one of my lathes to run some motor components used in high power rockets. I got the first operation set up Friday. It will be late Tuesday or early Wednesday before I finish the last operation. I'll post pictures if you like. :)

So that would leave me ready for paint. However, After the gracious purchase of additional plywood from Tom I have to make a choice.
Should I stall the paint and add a wooden rub rail or go with my initial plan and proceed to paint and use the Tessilmare rub rail?
I really like the clean look of the Tessilmare rail and I will most likely stick to my plan.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:24 pm
by Fuzz
Eric1 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:02 am
As for my build, She awaits the final coat of graphite. Sorry to disappoint you Fuzz, I hope you didn't wager to much money on that. :lol:
Should I stall the paint and add a wooden rub rail or go with my initial plan and proceed to paint and use the Tessilmare rub rail?
I really like the clean look of the Tessilmare rail and I will most likely stick to my plan.
Dang it all............might have to go back to work to pay off my bet :cry:

If it were me I would put the rubber rub rail on it. I would love to put one on my build but it costs more to ship it than it does to buy it for me :roll:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:47 am
by Aripeka Angler
Eric1 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:02 am
So that would leave me ready for paint. However, After the gracious purchase of additional plywood from Tom I have to make a choice.
Should I stall the paint and add a wooden rub rail or go with my initial plan and proceed to paint and use the Tessilmare rub rail?
I really like the clean look of the Tessilmare rail and I will most likely stick to my plan.
The use of both elements provides a more finished look, at least in my opinion.
I put a 2" tall x 3/4" thick laminated rubrail of hardwood mahogany on my XF20 before I installed the Taco rubrail.
Water also seems to drip off very cleanly with this setup. Kind of like the function of the eave drip sub strip on a wood fascia board...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:16 am
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:47 am The use of both elements provides a more finished look, at least in my opinion.
I put a 2" tall x 3/4" thick laminated rubrail of hardwood mahogany on my XF20 before I installed the Taco rubrail.
Water also seems to drip off very cleanly with this setup. Kind of like the function of the eave drip sub strip on a wood fascia board...
You know what? This is a good idea. :wink:
I have gone back and forth over installing the rail before the flip. My concern is matching the edge of the boat to the rail. I thought this would be easier to do after the flip. However I would not have the strength and stiffness the rail provides during the flip. Another concern is the sides have pulled away from the frames with all of the epoxy and glass and I have thought it would "set" this by putting the rub rail on.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:00 am
by Jaysen
The top alignment is easy with a flush cut router bit. The bottom is the one that will drive YOU mad(der). Scribe your hull with the bottom rail mark then Install to that. Let the router deal with the upper rail. You will want to fair and sand the rail bottom quite a bit to meet your standards. Much easier to do all the before the flip.

How far did the side pull? Remember this is just glass and expoxy. If the hull lines are good and fair "extend" the frame with thickened epoxy and glass.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:40 pm
by TomW1
Eric I believe if you read your building instructions that you will find that the wood rub rail is a structural part of the C boats. I know it was in the plans of my C17 and C19 plans. They were 3/4 by 1 1x2 and could be made out of 1/4" ply 3 layers.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:42 pm
by narfi
Is it optional if you have an in wall?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:52 pm
by TomW1
Yes

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:37 pm
by peter-curacao
Stephen I flipped my CS with only the aft part of the rubrail installed, bow section had nothing, just leave your frames in during the flip and you should be safe. I did my rubrail same as Richard and works pretty nice as he describes, if you want to do it as you describe and your rail is structural as Tom thinks it is, just make an inner rubrail, this should be as structural as an outer rubrail I think, just ask Jacques to be sure.
Edit: with inner rubrail I mean on the inside of the boat under the deck

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:05 pm
by Eric1
peter-curacao wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:37 pm Stephen I flipped my CS with only the aft part of the rubrail installed, bow section had nothing, just leave your frames in during the flip and you should be safe. I did my rubrail same as Richard and works pretty nice as he describes, if you want to do it as you describe and your rail is structural as Tom thinks it is, just make an inner rubrail, this should be as structural as an outer rubrail I think, just ask Jacques to be sure.
Edit: with inner rubrail I mean on the inside of the boat under the deck
Peter that is a very good alternative. Thank You

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:13 pm
by Eric1
I finished up my machine work before lunch so I can get back to my boat tomorrow. I plan to roll the last coat of graphite on in the morning.
I just ordered the 30 mm black Tessilmare rub rail from Jeff. I am going to cut a 1/4" wooden rail from the 6566 Meranti I got from Tom. I want to have the Tessilmare rail in hand to determine the width I want the Meranti to be. Once I have that determined and cut I'll have to clamp it to the boat and strike the line on the sides. Then I'll have to remove it and cut the primer with 80 grit to ensure a good bond with the epoxy glue. Then I'll seal the plywood with a coat or two with epoxy.
Who knows I may get paint on her before Halloween! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:33 am
by glossieblack
That's a good job plan Eric, and the Meranti and Tessilmare combo will look sharp. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 am
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:33 am That's a good job plan Eric, and the Meranti and Tessilmare combo will look sharp. 8)
Thanks Glossie.
That's enough motivation to get this started today. I'm not moving well this morning.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:23 am
by Aripeka Angler
Eric1 wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:13 pm I finished up my machine work before lunch so I can get back to my boat tomorrow. I plan to roll the last coat of graphite on in the morning.
I just ordered the 30 mm black Tessilmare rub rail from Jeff. I am going to cut a 1/4" wooden rail from the 6566 Meranti I got from Tom. I want to have the Tessilmare rail in hand to determine the width I want the Meranti to be. Once I have that determined and cut I'll have to clamp it to the boat and strike the line on the sides. Then I'll have to remove it and cut the primer with 80 grit to ensure a good bond with the epoxy glue. Then I'll seal the plywood with a coat or two with epoxy.
Who knows I may get paint on her before Halloween! :lol:
Great decision.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:56 am
by Eric1
Thank You Richard. I'm trying to do it right. :)

I got myself moving finally. I premeasured 6, 6oz batches of epoxy with 2 oz. of graphite for each one. I have 4 ounce of resin in the Solo cups and the hardener is in the squeeze bottle. I get good control of the mix doing this. That is a little more than I used on the last coat but I know I'm going to change the rollers three times. The 9" nap roller soaks up about 2 ounces just to wet it out. I also used a 4" foam roller to "Tip" and a heat gun to break bubbles after rolling.

Image

After first two batches are rolled.
Image

HOORAH!!! Bottom Coat is Finished and tape has been pulled! :D :D :D

Image

Image

Image


I'm pretty happy with the results. I enjoyed the testing I did and I learned a little along the way.
To me that is part of the reason I'm building the boat. I've learned a good bit about the process so far and I've learned about myself.
In everything you do, take advice from the experts, but also try things you think would improve on the "norm" and debunk what you think may be un-needed. This is the true process of gaining wisdom. Thanks to everyone for their input and advice! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:01 pm
by narfi
Looks great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:05 pm
by Jeff
Absolutely great work!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:16 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Nice work!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:05 pm
by peter-curacao
Looks great 8) Any reason you didn't continue the waterline over the transom?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:35 pm
by Fuzz
Ok we need a little pole here.
Will he be able to resist sanding this coat or not :doh:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:40 pm
by Eric1
peter-curacao wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:05 pm Looks great 8) Any reason you didn't continue the waterline over the transom?
It's not needed for fro the intended purpose. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:42 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Y'all! :D
Please take Fuzz up on any wager he makes about me sanding this coat! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:14 pm
by Fuzz
I will be a believer once the hull is flipped :D Until then...........................

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:32 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:14 pm I will be a believer once the hull is flipped :D Until then...........................
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:36 pm
by MrPaul
I'll put all my chips on Eric sanding :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:08 pm
by Jaysen
He will resist for a few minutes. Then he will break out in cold sweats while someone tries to hold him down. But he will prevail and resume living as a victim of BBSV

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:19 pm
by Eric1
MrPaul wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:36 pm I'll put all my chips on Eric sanding :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
https://youtu.be/JZEIMQ42-oU

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:02 pm
by TomW1
I know Eric doesn't like sanding any more than the rest of us. But he is also a precision machinist who makes his lively hood on detail. So which comes through on this final coat. Well if there are few or very small bubbles he might be satisfied. If more than a few he won't be. Since he has pull everything up and out of the way I will bet against Fuzz and say he is done with the bottom. :lol: :lol:

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:46 pm
by glossieblack
It's great to see a perfectionist getting the job done. Too many perfectionists never finish the job, because their skills or endurance are found wanting.

Well done Eric! 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:53 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Looks amazing, thanks for documenting your process.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:01 pm
by Eric1
TomW1 wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:02 pm I know Eric doesn't like sanding any more than the rest of us. But he is also a precision machinist who makes his lively hood on detail. So which comes through on this final coat. Well if there are few or very small bubbles he might be satisfied. If more than a few he won't be. Since he has pull everything up and out of the way I will bet against Fuzz and say he is done with the bottom. :lol: :lol:

Tom
Good attention to detail Tom!
glossieblack wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:46 pm It's great to see a perfectionist getting the job done. Too many perfectionists never finish the job, because their skills or endurance are found wanting.

Well done Eric! 8)
Thank You Glossieblack!
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:53 pm Looks amazing, thanks for documenting your process.
Thank you too my Friend.
My goal with all these posts has been to help other builders. It is my hope they may glean something from my mistakes or successes.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:50 pm
by Browndog
Nice job Eric!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:32 am
by blueflood
Done Eric and looking great. You must be relieved and satisfied 8) :D The fun (and more frustration) is just starting :wink:

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:34 pm
by MrPaul
I'm gonna have to talk to my bookie about the odds on you sanding :lol: but the boat looks great!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:15 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Browndog, Marc and Mr.Paul! :D
All this talk of me doing more sanding on the bottom really cracks me up! :lol:

Happy Saturday my fellow boat bums! We have glorious weather here today so I'm inside with Danielle solving a minor issue with the rub rails.
After looking at Jacques drawings for the top edge of the side panels I wanted to shift the dimensions to accommodate cutting these from a single panel. After moving eight foot sections in my CAM system I could not get dimensions I could easily measure. Plus I didn't think the batten I used would bend the same over so few points.
My solution is to tape up poster board sections wider than the 2" wide rub rail I intend. I left that hanging below the edge of the boat. Once it was over the entire side I used a razor against the edge of the boat and cut the waste paper even.
Here is Danielle doing her impression of a Price is Right model. :lol: She is so much fun to be around. :D

Image

Now I take a small square and mark a 2" line from transom to bow. If you do this keep your left thumb against your right ring finger to keep the square and pencil moving together. Your hands are very stable this way.

Image

Everything above the line is waste. This should allow me to move this template around on the plywood to minimize waste. I know I can get one layer from a single sheet for both sides. I may use two layer of 1/4" though. I will mock it up before I decide.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:20 pm
by Jeff
Well done Eric!!! Nice system!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:30 pm
by Fuzz
Very slick there Eric. That should make installing the rub rails very clean.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:54 pm
by TomW1
Eric nice use of the scribe method. My dad taught me that a long time ago when working with wood. Everything is looking good guy.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:43 pm
by glossieblack
8) 8) 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:10 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I think I'm starting to figure out your thought process. This kind of scares me. :lol:
You won't be sorry that you are putting on the wood rubrail sub-rail.
Remember as you cut the wood strips that each will be a different width in order to match the angle of the deck or gunwale.
Looking good!
Build on...

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:18 pm
by Eric1
Thanks Fellas. We didn't layout the other side. Danielle wanted lunch. After we enjoyed the day just goofing off.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:22 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:10 pm I think I'm starting to figure out your thought process. This kind of scares me. :lol:
You won't be sorry that you are putting on the wood rubrail sub-rail.
Remember as you cut the wood strips that each will be a different width in order to match the angle of the deck or gunwale.
Looking good!
Build on...
Thanks Richard. I'm going to leave them proud so I can plane that surface after the flip. I noticed the angular shift from the creeper I used to block sand any hanging fiberglass. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:29 am
by Eric1
Happy Labor Day!

I got kinda bored with no dove field to hunt so Danielle and I came to the shop to layout the other side.

Image

Such concentration!

Image

Y'all have a great day! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:51 pm
by Fuzz
Must be great to have your kids take an interest in your project. Mine just looked at me like I was nuts :cry:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:13 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:51 pm Must be great to have your kids take an interest in your project. Mine just looked at me like I was nuts :cry:
Sorry to hear that Fuzz. For what it's worth I use this approach."Hey I really need some help with this." Never have I asked them, I just tell them what is needed. It's not easy to be a parent, so much to figure out along the way. :|

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:39 pm
by Jaysen
Fuzz wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:51 pm Mine just looked at me like I was nuts :cry:
But were they wrong?

In seriousness, I feel that pain. My son has very little affection for any of my hobbies. I've tried to get onboard with some of his, but ... Now that he's gone we've started to talk political "action reaction" without getting into politics, but it sure would be nice to have something in common.

Much like Eric I always said "come help" and both kids did. Still, would be nice to have common interest now.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:35 pm
by Fuzz
The wife loves to fish but neither of my kids want anything to do with it. My son went commercial fishing with a buddy of mine one season. After one dose of that he wants nothing to do with fishing or boats. It would be nice to do stuff with them but they are out on their own now. Daughter never has liked anything that involved physical exertion. She was more of a book worm but it sort of worked out for me as she got a full ride to collage :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:05 am
by blueflood
Fuzz wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:51 pm Must be great to have your kids take an interest in your project. Mine just looked at me like I was nuts :cry:
:lol: Fuzz...you crack me up :D

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:07 am
by blueflood
Great going Eric. Man, you are detailed and accurate 8)

Marc

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:32 am
by glossieblack
Eric1 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:22 pm
Aripeka Angler wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:10 pm I think I'm starting to figure out your thought process. This kind of scares me. :lol:
You won't be sorry that you are putting on the wood rubrail sub-rail.
Remember as you cut the wood strips that each will be a different width in order to match the angle of the deck or gunwale.
Looking good!
Build on...
Thanks Richard. I'm going to leave them proud so I can plane that surface after the flip. I noticed the angular shift from the creeper I used to block sand any hanging fiberglass. :)
Richard's advice, and your intention the leave them proud and then plane after the flip, is the way to go. I didn't have the foresight to do this, and I've been playing catch up ever since. If I was doing it again, before the flip I'd take as long as it takes to get what will eventually be the bottom edge of the rub rail spot on, leaving what eventually will be the top edge proud for planning after the flip. Build on!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am
by Eric1
Thank Glossie and Richard for looking out for me. :D
The template was about 2 1/32". I'm going to mark the edge 1 15/16" hoping it's enough to get a clean edge after the flip.

The first thing I did this morning was unload the Very Generous aquisition from Tom! Thank you again for the Great deal!!!
Marine Ply!!
Image
Epoxy and foam!
Image

That done, it is time to go to work. I am going to put two layers on the outside of the boat.
I'm reserving the option of one layer on the inside. I'll see when the time comes.
Tedious layout:
Image

This is going take time to do well and will push the build out further.
I don't really care though. I am enjoying this, It's keeping my mind and hands busy.
I can't tell ya'll the hours I've spent thinking about the different way to finish this build! :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:32 pm
by Jaysen
Why not CNC the rail strips? I'd think you'd be able to make a single sized strip work for all layers.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:42 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:32 pm Why not CNC the rail strips? I'd think you'd be able to make a single sized strip work for all layers.

Maybe I'm missing something.
I don't own a CNC router yet. My machines are suited for cutting metal, think more torque less rpms.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:51 pm
by Jaysen
I knew it was something obvious!

Someday I'll have to find a reason to drool over your shop and Richard's shop. Big machines doing precision work is something to admire.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:35 pm
by Eric1
Well I have the first layer clamped in place. The template layout worked perfectly! :D :D

Image

From the back. :D

Image

Tomorrow morning I'll splice the template back together. Then shift the cut line so I don't stack the seams on top of each other.
No Fuzz and Jaysen, I don't see a lot of sanding going to be needed here. :P :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 pm
by Jaysen
Let's wait a few days on that.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:46 pm
by narfi
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:24 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 pm Let's wait a few days on that.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
narfi wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:46 pm Image
Sicko! :P :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:17 pm
by glossieblack
Eric, your approach to getting the rub rails right is already paying dividends. The first instalment is very nice. :D

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:33 pm
by Eric1
Thank you Glossie!! :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:48 pm
by Fuzz
If you can hold the rub rail in place with just a few spring clamps the template must have worked really well. Anything is better than using 50 clamps, bunch of screws and words that would make a Marine blush :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:34 am
by TomW1
That rubrail looks nice Eric.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:31 am
by Eric1
Thank you Fuzz and Tom. :D

Here goes round two. Hoping that round spot of sticker glue won't effect the epoxy. :x
I've scraped it with a razor and washed it with laquer thinner.
I don't know why manufacturers feel the need to put stickers on everything.

Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:55 am
by BB Sig
Lol. Especially things like this! I like the stamps better. You would think at the very least they would use less tacky adhesive.

Good luck in round two. I'm sure it will be at least as good as the rest you've shown us!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:58 am
by Eric1
Thank You Barry. Sending prayers for all y'all in Florida!

Danielle is hanging with me today. She asked to layout the last three section! :D 8)
Of course I said Heck Yes!! Two layers of rub rail each side from one sheet.
Pleased with that.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:03 am
by Jeff
Always nice to have great help!!!! Very well done by Danielle!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:22 pm
by Eric1
I had both helpers with me today but I did all the work.
I wanted to do the cutting myself. I start sanding down to glass monday.

Image

Stay smart Florida! We love you and are praying you'll be spared.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:50 pm
by Jeff
Thanks Eric!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:18 am
by Fuzz
So once the sander is in your hand the big will power test will come :lol: It ain't over till the flip is done :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:59 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:18 am So once the sander is in your hand the big will power test will come :lol: It ain't over till the flip is done :wink:
It's not a question of will. I'm cutting the primer off the rub rail area. Not enjoying this, I worked hard to fair it. :cry: :roll:

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:12 am
by Jaysen
Isn't that s3? Just scuff and glue man... it's all epoxy!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:38 am
by Eric1
No some of it is EMC also. It's no big deal to cut it off. I'm halfway done with it. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:00 pm
by Eric1
It's gone.

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:18 pm
by Eric1
Well the first rub rail is on the boat. As you can see I started by putting epoxy on the wrong side! :lol:
I had two ready for epoxy glue and had a "wait a minute" moment! :lol: :lol:
So I got to working quickly. My brother Mark gave me a hand with this. It's so much easier when you have help with this.

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Maybe tomorrow I'll think first!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:28 pm
by Jaysen
Eric1 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:18 pm Maybe tomorrow I'll think first!
Don't do it! If you do you might start sanding.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:38 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:28 pm
Eric1 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:18 pm Maybe tomorrow I'll think first!
Don't do it! If you do you might start sanding.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:21 pm
by glossieblack
Eric, when the boat is right way up, do you want the finished bottom of the timber/glass portion of the rub rail to be at right angles to the hull, horizontal athwartships, or sloping up from the hull? First layer looking good. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:10 pm
by Eric1
glossieblack wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:21 pm Eric, when the boat is right way up, do you want the finished bottom of the timber/glass portion of the rub rail to be at right angles to the hull, horizontal athwartships, or sloping up from the hull? First layer looking good. :D
Thanks Glossie. :) I'm not sure yet,leaning towards a simple right angle but it depends on how I join the gunwales.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:27 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi Eric, the boat looks great. I'm really enjoying reading you're build thread as I'm unable to work on my boat till I get home. I did the same as your proposing and went for a 90 deg. angle between the bottom of the rub rail and the hull. I found it easier to get things square and it forms a negative angle when the boat is turned back over. I'm hoping this will help prevent spray from migrating over the top like a backup spray rail. Alan.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:01 pm
by Eric1
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:27 pm Hi Eric, the boat looks great. I'm really enjoying reading you're build thread as I'm unable to work on my boat till I get home. I did the same as your proposing and went for a 90 deg. angle between the bottom of the rub rail and the hull. I found it easier to get things square and it forms a negative angle when the boat is turned back over. I'm hoping this will help prevent spray from migrating over the top like a backup spray rail. Alan.
Thanks Alan. I was just thinking it would match/accent the style line already on the boat. Your thoughts however are plausible. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:38 am
by Eric1
Good Morning Everyone.
I got the first layer glued to the hull on the right. I paid attention and it went better than yesterday. :D
I used 4.5 ounces of epoxy in 3 batches to do this. I tossed about an 1 1/2 ounces of waste. That was enough for a spit coat on the glue side of the rails plus the wood flour glue. At the end I added more wood flour and made a putty to fill the bow where the two sides meet. After the next two layers are on I'll form a nice radius there.

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Bow

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:05 am
by Jaysen
Excellent!

When does they sanding start?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:16 am
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:05 am Excellent!

When does they sanding start?
That's not the question. The question is when does it end?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:53 am
by Jaysen
I sit corrected

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:54 am
by csotelo
Looking good my friend!

Good idea to cut the strips with curves, bend then in the bow is a PITA.

Regards,

Carlos

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:10 pm
by danieloldhouse
Eric1 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:16 am
Jaysen wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:05 am Excellent!

When does they sanding start?
That's not the question. The question is when does it end?
:help: :help: :help:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:29 pm
by Eric1
I didn't get started until after lunch. I had to wait for my newest employee to finish her job at noon.
Danielle is answering our phone and doing office work for us. So when you call you will hear her sweet voice instead of mine.

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We have the second layer of rub rail on. Every thing was test fitted and matched to the first layer as best as possible.

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Transom profile. I think once I add the Tessilmare rail to this it will look great. :D

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Going to get the second layer on the other side tomorrow.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:16 pm
by glossieblack
Eric1 wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:29 pm
Transom profile. I think once I add the Tessilmare rail to this it will look great. :D
I agree. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:54 pm
by Jeff
Eric, I agree with you on the Tessilmare!! I will check back with them tomorrow regarding your two additional end caps!! By the way Danielle did a great job on the phones yesterday!!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:28 pm
by Fuzz
Nice to have your daughter working for you. But I bet it is different for her than the others, they can not say but.............daddy :lol: :lol: Every little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger, and we like it :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:53 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:28 pm Nice to have your daughter working for you. But I bet it is different for her than the others, they can not say but.............daddy :lol: :lol: Every little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger, and we like it :D
Only a little Fuzz. She has to do her job just like everybody else. :D

I talked with AA about planing this. He wanted to send me a router bit that would do the job.
While I know that would work great I felt he probably has enough on his plate without worrying over my boat build.
So here is how I'm edge matching my rub rails.
First I set the second layer just proud of the lowest area of the first rail. This put me a good bit high at the back edge on this piece.

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I added some blue tape to the working side of the plane.
This has to be replace every five feet or so but it helps keep scuffs of the hull.

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Here is the same edge after planing and sanding.
The black mark on the previous piece is so I can line these back up when I glue them on.

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I'm considering using aluminum/epoxy of these for toughness. I may paint over them as well.
I'm off to finish the rest of it. Y'all have a great day. :)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:08 am
by Jaysen
I know I'm late, but why not just plane it all AFTER gluing it?

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:01 pm
by Eric1
Jaysen wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:08 am I know I'm late, but why not just plane it all AFTER gluing it?
You could certainly do that if you choose.
I prefer to spend more time getting the prep as close as I can and then move forward to the next step.
Just mt way of doing things. :)

Anyway the last layer is on.

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I had a small amount of plain epoxy mixed so I put a spit coat on the first side.
I had no idea this ply was so pretty. I may leave the rub rails bright. :D

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Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:10 pm
by Jaysen
I get it. I was just thinking that you'll have some glue push and will feed your sanding habit with plane then glue. Glue then plane would produce a finished surface. I do t think there's a right or wrong here. Just wondering if I missed something important that had you to plane then glue.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:07 pm
by peter-curacao
If you gonna paint it you might consider giving the outer corner (under) a radius with a router and put a fillet into the inner corner, I did it that way and I'm glad I did, it just gives you a much nicer grip opposite to hard corners. I try to find you a pic to explain better.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:17 pm
by Eric1
I understand. Even if I leave the wood finished bright a radius is a good idea. :wink:

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:20 pm
by peter-curacao
Eric1 wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:17 pm I understand. Even if I leave the wood finished bright a radius is a good idea. :wink:
keep in mind that If you rout the plywood it will give you different colors because of the multi layers, here's a pic to explain my previous comment better, not the best pic but it gives you an idea I hope.
Image

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:22 pm
by Eric1
Very Nice Peter!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:03 am
by Aripeka Angler
Eric, your rubrail looks great! I'll hang on to the router bit, I think you came up with a nice alternative. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:01 pm
by Eric1
Aripeka Angler wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:03 am Eric, your rubrail looks great! I'll hang on to the router bit, I think you came up with a nice alternative. 8)
Thank You Richard. :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:22 pm
by Eric1
I didn't work the build this weekend. I was rear ended Friday as I waited to turn in my driveway.The jerk ran from the scene. I got the tag and make of the car. The police are looking for him. My back and shoulder were very sore Saturday so I did very little. Sunday was Danielle's 19th birthday so Saturday night I cooked the meal she asked for. Steaks, Baked potato, salad with a nice Danish blue cheese and roasted onions. We just took it easy.
She was in the car as well but she had no adverse effects.

Today I removed the clamps and sanded the tops of the rub rails. As nice as the plywood looks I've decided to paint them. I really don't want the upkeep of bright work. I think the black Tessilmare rail will look good on the gray wooden rail.
No pictures today I was/am covered in work in the machine shop.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:40 pm
by Jeff
Good talk today and glad you are doing better following the crazy driver reading his text and hitting you in the rear last Friday afternoon!!! These folks should lose their license for an extended period!!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
by glossieblack
I'm impressed by the logical way you're thinking ahead with your rub rails Eric. The result will be spot on. 8)

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:39 pm
by TomW1
Eric sorry to hear about the accident glad to know your okay. The rub rail is looking great! Also sent you a PM.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:08 pm
by Fuzz
Man Eric, you have had more than your share of trials and tribulations during this build :( I hope things will go your way for a while and you can move ahead :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:51 pm
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:08 pm Man Eric, you have had more than your share of trials and tribulations during this build :( I hope things will go your way for a while and you can move ahead :D
Thank you my Friend. It all works out in the end. :D

Not much going on with the boat. I'm slammed with work at the machine shop and short handed. Monday I have a 12' stick of 1.5" x 4.125" 316ss coming in. It's going to be a bunch of small connections I'll have to mill. Plus I have some poultry processing parts to make on top of our regular work. So today I came by with my full crew to put a coat of epoxy on the rub rails to seal the wood. I only put it on the vertical surface because I'm going to put a small radius on the edges. I have a set of tools ordered to work with but they have not come in yet.

The help: :D

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The rub rails.

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These are the tools I ordered. I must be crazy but I like hand tools when I'm working on something like this.
I don't expect a great finish working the edge of plywood but it will ruff the radius in for me.
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Really hoping to have the rails ready for primer by next friday. I want to get the boat painted before cool weather gets here.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm
by Netpackrat
Where did you get those tools? I have a Slickplane that works OK for rounding over edges, but those look super neat as well!

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:41 pm
by Eric1
Netpackrat wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm Where did you get those tools? I have a Slickplane that works OK for rounding over edges, but those look super neat as well!
I ordered these from Woodcraft.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:59 pm
by Jeff
Rub rails look great!! Also nice to help that expert assistance your daughters provide!! I should have your end caps Monday. Their shop had been closed due to IRMA damage!! Have a good weekend!! Jeff

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:41 pm
by TomW1
Eric those are some nice tools. Try to use them in one long continuos sweep if you can. Trying to start and stop can lead to hi or low spots. They work fine on plywood, just may need to sand it.

Tom

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:24 pm
by Fuzz
Just so you know................I am missing my morning sanding fix :D

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:51 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:24 pm Just so you know................I am missing my morning sanding fix :D
I'm sorry Fuzz. I have been waiting on tools to come in. I got them late yesterday and did a test cut, they will do fine. Monday I got underneath the boat and knocked off all the places epoxy and wood flour had came through the filled holes and seams. I started with a small hand sander, it was slow, dusty and tended to cut into the bare wood. My solution was a 1/2" chisel and a hammer. I could put the edge of the chisel against the epoxy and with a light tap of the hammer the epoxy would cut flush. As I've said my knees are shot so anything I can do now will be better than after the flip.
I'm going to cut the radii this morning then do a test of epoxy and powdered aluminum.
After that I have to get back to machine work. I got word from our largest stainless vendor the price is going up in October so I spent Monday afternoon and all day yesterday adjusting prices on about three hundred parts we make. Today I have to set up a mill on that 316ss plate work that came in. I'll post the work for y'all as I go. Then write a program for a live tooled lathe job.
I'm feeling a bit pressured because I want this boat painted and flipped by the end of the year. I have to finish and prime the rub rails, prime them and paint the boat before cool weather gets here. I want to paint on a Friday and let it cure over the weekend. Then I plan to roll it outside every day for a week to let the sun further cure the paint. After that I have to frame up a structure to flip the girl over.
Well that's where I stand for now. Hoping for time to make progress.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:36 am
by Eric1
This is how it's going.

Before corner tools has cut.

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After tool has cut. Of course the end grain layer in the plywood looks like crap.

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After a bit of sanding.

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Side view. Left is not radiused, right is.

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Next I'll fill the lows with some Quick Fair or epoxy and wood flour.

Re: Eric's C21

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:41 am
by Jaysen
Yeah... you're an over achiever in my book. :P