Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

It is past time to look for motors for our soon to be completed RB14 build. I'm in the fortunate position to be shopping for a new motor for only the second time in my life. Kind of overwhelmed so I thought I would lean of the experience of those of you who have already been so helpful.

The RB14 was built for a 15" short shaft motor. I didn't realize that the offerings by the major motor guys out there might be a little limited.

Although it can, by design, handle up to 35hp without an issue, the new motors of that size are pretty heavy. The current practical size limited by vendor and weight is 25/30hp. I need remote steering and electric start, and would like power trim/tilt.

Here are my questions for the more experienced outboard buyers among you.

Is there much of a difference between 25hp and 30hp in today's market? Some motors are just aspirated differently and maybe run at slightly higher WOT to gain the extra 5hp. Why would anyone turn that down? For that matter is 25hp "enough" for the RB14? (Geir is the only one I know who has built one and I think he was running a two stroke 30-35hp)

In some brands, the power trim/tilt isn't available (Yamaha F25 for example). I love being able to trim my other boat and find it handles better so should I only consider those outboards with power trim? Has anyone ever added the after market tilt/trim plates (like this one http://thmarine.com/cmc-pt-35-tilt-and- ... p-to-35-hpand can you relate your experience? Would moving the outboard aft 4" change the handing? Improve the handling? Ruin the aesthetics?

Without getting into a "best" motor debate (I know that can turn ugly fast.) Can anyone point to any brands to avoid?

Is it worth holding off a few weeks and trying for one of the "boat show deals" that crop up?

Is an extended warrantee worth some added expense? (We hope to own the boat for many years and Kyla is forbidden to part with it while I'm at least still kicking.)

Thanks for any help and opinions are welcome and solicited.
-Jim (the wallet) and Kyla (the daughter avoiding sanding at the moment)

Jim,

Take a look at this place, no taxes and free shipping. I bought my 2017 Tohatsu 9.8 4 stroke Electric start and charging system, $ 2,100. Hope my dog loves that motor!

Onlineoutboards.com

I do not think CMT PT 35 option would be a positive for the "look" of this style boat.

Thanks Capt,
They ship only the "portable" models so most top out at 20hp.

However, I'm intrigued by the Suzuki DF25ATS2 which is the exact configuration I want (even power trim/tilt) for $4070. out the door. Very interesting....

tcason wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:08 pm I do not think CMT PT 35 option would be a positive for the "look" of this style boat.

That is what I was thinking too... makes it a bit harder to find the right motor then.
Thanks for the feedback.

Just to provide other with some information that I have found out thus far, Suzuki is the only outboard company that I have found so far that will allow their outboards to be shipped direct to the buyer from a dealer with the remote controls instead of tiller. (They still consider any motor up to 30hp portable even with all the options.)

Also, Capt's lead has panned out well. Suzuki is offering a free extended warrantee until end of the year. Covered for 6 years.

I might be falling in love.

jtdums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:25 pm Just to provide other with some information that I have found out thus far, Suzuki is the only outboard company that I have found so far that will allow their outboards to be shipped direct to the buyer from a dealer with the remote controls instead of tiller. (They still consider any motor up to 30hp portable even with all the options.)

Also, Capt's lead has panned out well. Suzuki is offering a free extended warrantee until end of the year. Covered for 6 years.

I might be falling in love.

With the outboard...right!

The 25 and 30 HP Suzuki motors have the same specifications basically. So you might as well go for the 30 it will not give you a lot more speed as I have found running my calculations but maybe 3-4 mph's. A four blade propeller will help in your steering and maintaining running control. You may or may not get a 3 blade aluminum prop with the Suzuki.

I like the Suzuki's good motors. Be aware the Onlineoutboards 30HP is a 20" shaft. Check with them if you can get a short shaft. Also remember a short shaft may not be 15" it may be 17".

Tom

Tom, what makes you like Suzuki motors?
Have you ever owned one?

Thanks for asking RIchard, no but have several friends that have and they have never had a problem. Also Larry's brother belonged to a club that used Suzuki's and swore by them and I talked to there service manager. Since I can't get a Yamaha around here I would have gone that way if I hadn't gotten No Excuse. Take care.

Tom

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:59 pm RIchard no but have several friends that have and they have never had a problem. Also Larry's brother belonged to a club that used Suzuki's and swore by them. Since I can't get a Yamaha around here I would have gone that way if I hadn't gotten No Excuse.

Tom

So you have never owned a Suzuki?

Richard I said no. Enough of this. What's your point. I explained why in my post above. You once said that all motors are equal only I can''t find the post you said it in. If you really want to get into a dicussion on this lets do it.


Tom

Capt UB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:18 pm

jtdums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:25 pm Just to provide other with some information that I have found out thus far, Suzuki is the only outboard company that I have found so far that will allow their outboards to be shipped direct to the buyer from a dealer with the remote controls instead of tiller. (They still consider any motor up to 30hp portable even with all the options.)

Also, Capt's lead has panned out well. Suzuki is offering a free extended warrantee until end of the year. Covered for 6 years.

I might be falling in love.

With the outboard...right!

Sorry Capt, should have been clearer on this point.

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:31 pm The 25 and 30 HP Suzuki motors have the same specifications basically. So you might as well go for the 30 it will not give you a lot more speed as I have found running my calculations but maybe 3-4 mph's. A four blade propeller will help in your steering and maintaining running control. You may or may not get a 3 blade aluminum prop with the Suzuki.

I like the Suzuki's good motors. Be aware the Onlineoutboards 30HP is a 20" shaft. Check with them if you can get a short shaft. Also remember a short shaft may not be 15" it may be 17".

Tom

Tom,
Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I was looking for and I respect the hell out of the knowledge you share with the forum when it comes to props and motors.

The Suzuki would have to be the 25hp. The 30 is offered with the long shaft only it would appear. Kind of crazy since the change in the motor seems so minor to gain the extra 5hp. I will certainly clarify with the dealer though just to be absolutely clear.

Also, I will follow up on the forum with what ever motor/prop combo I end up with in the interest of providing other future builders as much information as possible.

I'm still trying to avoid the "best" motor discussion since everyone has favorites. I haven't managed to find any documented negative feedback on the Suzuki. Absent that, this looks to be a good choice for me even if it is only available in the 25hp model. I think I will sacrifice the top end speed for the convenience of the power trim. (I suspect that the power trim may compensate for the difference in hp by enabling me to "dial in" the motor on the fly with different weight aboard.)

If I were to build the RB14 again, or another boat of similar size/ design, I might consider raising the transom up to the 20" long shaft only because there are more options currently available. (although I have to admit I like the idea of the "tucked away" 15" short shaft motor for the aesthetics of the RB)

When it comes down to it, if I want power trim and tilt and don't want to add a bracket for looks or weight, then with the short transom some of the "popular" motors are out of contention. (Yamaha F25, Etec 30,25) because they don't offer the right length shaft with this configuration.

Further, since the Suzuki DF25ATS2 is considered "portable" and Suzuki doesn't limit their dealers from shipping outboards with remotes (most other brands seem to limit this) I can get the entire package dropped at my door step. At around 150lbs it won't be easy, but from experience I know that I can hang that motor in my garage without too much difficulty.

No matter the brand, I wanted the controls before hand because I don't want just anyone cutting holes in my new boat! Every dealer I spoke with was OK with this so no problem there.

Now I just need to tell my kids that I'm canceling Christmas and all future vacations will be taken locally on the water.

The RB14 is a 15" or 20". It's in the study plans. My boat is the FS14, says 20" shaft, but transom is 19 5/8". My 2017 Tohatsu 9.8 4 stroke (87 lbs.) short shaft is 18". which puts the cav. plate up 1.5" from the bottom. Safe and better for skinny water. I did not buy this ob for this boat, I would have bought the 20" (Long shaft). Anyway, go for the long shaft. A jackplate if needed will help.

For what it is worth, I purchased and installed a Suzuki DF30A on the FS17 I completed in 2016 and have been delighted with the performance. This is the max HP that includes remote with trim and tilt that I found available online. Delivery and installation was seamless and Suzuki's 6 year extended warranty was a plus. Changed the prop to stainless this summer which resulted in a slight bump up in efficiency.

byboatbuilder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:00 am For what it is worth, I purchased and installed a Suzuki DF30A on the FS17 I completed in 2016 and have been delighted with the performance. This is the max HP that includes remote with trim and tilt that I found available online. Delivery and installation was seamless and Suzuki's 6 year extended warranty was a plus. Changed the prop to stainless this summer which resulted in a slight bump up in efficiency.

That's what I'm talking about, great report.

Captain UB, the industry standard is 15, 20 and 25" but I have seen a bunch of shafts that do not respect the standard.
Builders should know what their shaft is before cutting the transom.

When I design a transom for example for a 20" shaft, I often set the clamp at 19.5". That gives the builder 1/2" to play with if he decides a wants the engine a down a little bit.
In most cases, it will be installed the other way, 1/2" higher. That works fine as designed.

jacquesmm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:42 am Captain UB, the industry standard is 15, 20 and 25" but I have seen a bunch of shafts that do not respect the standard.
Builders should know what their shaft is before cutting the transom.

When I design a transom for example for a 20" shaft, I often set the clamp at 19.5". That gives the builder 1/2" to play with if he decides a wants the engine a down a little bit.
In most cases, it will be installed the other way, 1/2" higher. That works fine as designed.

Good to know.

My 2017 NMZ 15.4 Gheenoe was a 15", the motor I have now was for that boat. The cav. plate went way below the bottom!
The FS14, will be just right, no changes from me. Anyway, I'll know by the end of November when I do a float test with motor on.

jtdums wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:24 am

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:31 pm The 25 and 30 HP Suzuki motors have the same specifications basically. So you might as well go for the 30 it will not give you a lot more speed as I have found running my calculations but maybe 3-4 mph's. A four blade propeller will help in your steering and maintaining running control. You may or may not get a 3 blade aluminum prop with the Suzuki.

I like the Suzuki's good motors. Be aware the Onlineoutboards 30HP is a 20" shaft. Check with them if you can get a short shaft. Also remember a short shaft may not be 15" it may be 17".

Tom

Tom,
Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I was looking for and I respect the hell out of the knowledge you share with the forum when it comes to props and motors.

The Suzuki would have to be the 25hp. The 30 is offered with the long shaft only it would appear. Kind of crazy since the change in the motor seems so minor to gain the extra 5hp. I will certainly clarify with the dealer though just to be absolutely clear.

Also, I will follow up on the forum with what ever motor/prop combo I end up with in the interest of providing other future builders as much information as possible.

From what I understand (rumor on the web) to increase the 25hp to a 30 hp on the Merc it is a plate change under the throttle body and a very slight timing adjustment. Suzuki and others could be the same, if you wanted those extra ponies. But a pitch change on the prop maybe more productive in the long run.

byboatbuilder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:00 am For what it is worth, I purchased and installed a Suzuki DF30A on the FS17 I completed in 2016 and have been delighted with the performance. This is the max HP that includes remote with trim and tilt that I found available online. Delivery and installation was seamless and Suzuki's 6 year extended warranty was a plus. Changed the prop to stainless this summer which resulted in a slight bump up in efficiency.

Thanks for the feedback. Great info and reassurance.

OrangeQuest wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:44 pm

jtdums wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:24 am

TomW1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:31 pm The 25 and 30 HP Suzuki motors have the same specifications basically. So you might as well go for the 30 it will not give you a lot more speed as I have found running my calculations but maybe 3-4 mph's. A four blade propeller will help in your steering and maintaining running control. You may or may not get a 3 blade aluminum prop with the Suzuki.

I like the Suzuki's good motors. Be aware the Onlineoutboards 30HP is a 20" shaft. Check with them if you can get a short shaft. Also remember a short shaft may not be 15" it may be 17".

Tom

Tom,
Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I was looking for and I respect the hell out of the knowledge you share with the forum when it comes to props and motors.

The Suzuki would have to be the 25hp. The 30 is offered with the long shaft only it would appear. Kind of crazy since the change in the motor seems so minor to gain the extra 5hp. I will certainly clarify with the dealer though just to be absolutely clear.

Also, I will follow up on the forum with what ever motor/prop combo I end up with in the interest of providing other future builders as much information as possible.

From what I understand (rumor on the web) to increase the 25hp to a 30 hp on the Merc it is a plate change under the throttle body and a very slight timing adjustment. Suzuki and others could be the same, if you wanted those extra ponies. But a pitch change on the prop maybe more productive in the long run.

I was able to find the information about the Merc conversion too, but I haven't seen any confirmation on the Suzuki. I'm probably too chicken to mess with a new motor. I'd hate to void that 6 year warrantee.

depends on your budget..... i would recommend a 30 HP Evinrude etec with trim.... its a light boat and trim is important .. and the pull like nothing else .. they are light and low on maintenance

deuce_454 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm depends on your budget..... i would recommend a 30 HP Evinrude etec with trim.... its a light boat and trim is important .. and the pull like nothing else .. they are light and low on maintenance

Not available with the short (15" shaft) with power trim, electric start, remote controls apparently.
I'd love to hear differently.

jtdums wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:04 pm

deuce_454 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm depends on your budget..... i would recommend a 30 HP Evinrude etec with trim.... its a light boat and trim is important .. and the pull like nothing else .. they are light and low on maintenance

Not available with the short (15" shaft) with power trim, electric start, remote controls apparently.
I'd love to hear differently.

Received confirmation from Etec that this configuration is not available in the short shaft.

I have gone ahead and ordered the 2017 Suzuki DF25ATS2 motor package.

It comes with electric start, power trim/tilt, a side mount remote and harness, 6 gallon tank and fuel line, and Aluminum prop. This totaled $4070 with a lift gate additional charge of $90. No tax or shipping. I'll do the install. 6 year warrantee.

Hope this information might help someone down the road.

jtdums wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:26 am I have gone ahead and ordered the 2017 Suzuki DF25ATS2 motor package.

It comes with electric start, power trim/tilt, a side mount remote and harness, 6 gallon tank and fuel line, and Aluminum prop. This totaled $4070 with a lift gate additional charge of $90. No tax or shipping. I'll do the install. 6 year warrantee.

Hope this information might help someone down the road.

I had Suzukis 115's on my last boat. They ran fine and had no big issues for ten years. I did have to replace a high pressure fuel pump from the rig sitting. When gas hit $4.00 a gallon I simply could not afford to go offshore. I think you'll be pleased.

Thank you Eric. It is pretty stressful when you are talking about such a big ticket item. Hopefully I'll be able to report back a positive experience.

If anyone now has anything bad to say...keep it to yourself, you're too late.

That is a great deal on a 25 HP outboard.

jtdums, very good information!! Thank you, Jeff

Where is it coming from, a dealer or web?

Capt UB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:59 am Where is it coming from, a dealer or web?

It is from the online dealer...https://onlineoutboards.com/suzuki-25-hp-outboards.html

jtdums wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Capt UB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:59 am Where is it coming from, a dealer or web?

It is from the online dealer...https://onlineoutboards.com/suzuki-25-hp-outboards.html

OK, so they did have what you wanted!!
They did me great.
One thing, take photos of the shipping box, before opening it and the driver leaves. I had a corner ripped and taped back. All was OK, but!!

It took me a a week to break-in the ob right. I followed the owner manual to a tee. I did not listen to the outside voices!

Good luck and I know the two of you will enjoy the big day.

Capt UB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:35 pm

jtdums wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Capt UB wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:59 am Where is it coming from, a dealer or web?

It is from the online dealer...https://onlineoutboards.com/suzuki-25-hp-outboards.html

OK, so they did have what you wanted!!
They did me great.
One thing, take photos of the shipping box, before opening it and the driver leaves. I had a corner ripped and taped back. All was OK, but!!

It took me a a week to break-in the ob right. I followed the owner manual to a tee. I did not listen to the outside voices!

Good luck and I know the two of you will enjoy the big day.

Note any visible damage on the driver's Bill of Laden! And have the driver sign the noted damage. Damage DURING shipping is shipping company's dime not the Dealer.

Just wanted to follow up to continue to document my experience on the motor hunt. Online Outboards did receive the motor back. They inspected it and have elected to send out a new unit in exchange. It is now on its way. I'll follow up when it comes and I have results to report.

Good result!! Jeff

jtdums wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:07 am Just wanted to follow up to continue to document my experience on the motor hunt. Online Outboards did receive the motor back. They inspected it and have elected to send out a new unit in exchange. It is now on its way. I'll follow up when it comes and I have results to report.

Good for Online Outboards. Their mechanics must of seen some damage to the motor. Hope it gets to you safely.

I am so excited to see ya'lls boat in the water!!!

I missed something.... What happened to the ob?

It had a rough trip from them to me. Not their fault. Delivery was refused, but they are making good on it.

jtdums wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:34 am It had a rough trip from them to me. Not their fault. Delivery was refused, but they are making good on it.

When my ob came the box looked ruffed up, but it was the old guy (thin as a rail) and the girl (300 lbs. driver) could not lift it out of the truck! So I pulled it out and used MY dolly to get it in the house!! I forget what shipping company it was, not UPS. I think it was FedEx.

Glad they are taking care of the problem.

Well the new Suzuki 25hp outboard arrived today.
No damage this time. Took a lot longer than expected to get it (salesman apparently left on vacation), but it's here.
Unwrapped and uncrated. Already ran the new wire harness so I can now continue the build. I'll try to post motor related information here as I have anything to report.

That is some good news! How is the wood work coming?

Jtdums, really good news and glad they replaced without much trouble!! Jeff

They are a good group to do business with. Glad it worked out. Now build on.....

PICTURES!!!

Back to the wood working this week and I will continue to post pictures under the companion thread "RB14 by Kyla" as they come available.

I know this is a older post but I re-read the whole thread and didn't say if you got the 20" shaft or I missed it. Seem to be thinking you did but, my question is: If it is the 20" shaft will it bolt to your transom without a jack plate?

Was out of town so just now getting back to you. Sorry.
I did buy the short shaft (15") Suzuki so I didn't need the plate. This Suzuki does have remote, electric start, and power trim and tilt, so hopefully it is just the right thing.

Just thought I would update that this same company (and I'm sure others soon too) are selling etec outboards "online" all the way up to 60hp. The prices are not yet available without getting a quote, but this might be of use to someone else working on a motor solution.

https://onlineoutboards.com/evinrude-e- ... oards.html

I've no skin in the game here just FYI.

jtdums, good information!! Thanks for sharing with the members!! Jeff

Happy to throw it out there and hope it can help someone else down the road.
I've taken my fair share of good tips from the forum and hope to give back where I can.