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Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:38 pm
by FluidDynamic
So I have purchased my plans, wood, and some of the epoxy/fiberglass to start my Panga 20. I'll be documenting every step of the way. I have started with the jig and have placed Frame A and the Bow mold. I decided to use MDF for the frames. This will allow me to start now as it will take awhile to receive the plywood. I decided to use all Okoume. The caribeanna in the second pic is the look I'm going for.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:44 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Great boat!
Looking forward to following your build. 8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:47 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'll be placing Frame B tomorrow evening. I decided to use a self leveling cross beam laser level. So far it seems to be working. I'm also verifying the measurements to make sure the laser is correct.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
Any idea how to turn my pics?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:54 pm
by Aripeka Angler
I’m viewing your photos on an I-Pad pro.
The pictures are oriented correctly for me. All are correct.
If you are uploading your photos to the BBC site, there is a rotate photo function.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:32 pm
by Jeff
Excellent selection FluidDynamic!!! Welcome to the Builders Forum & we look forward to watching your build of Panga 20!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:10 pm
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:31 pm
by OneWayTraffic
At least on my iPhone I find it useful to have the phone oriented correctly when taking photos. Home button underneath or on the right.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:00 pm
by Jaysen
Use the forum gallery and all those problems go away.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
IMG_20181231_194638.jpg
I placed Station B and quickly learned the cross beam laser moves when I'm pushing on the strongbacks. To solve this, I anchored the strongbacks in each end of the jig with concrete anchor bolts. It's not moving now. I've also made some marks that line up with the vertical laser so I can verify that everything is straight.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:09 am
by fallguy1000
I use lasers extensively.

Even as a relative, not absolute reference.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:38 am
by FluidDynamic
Station C is in.
there's nothing like the feeling when a boat starts to take shape.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:49 am
by fallguy1000
Did you tapcon the 2x chuncks to the floor? It looked like nails, but also saw washers, so might be my eyes is all.

You don't want the strongback to move.

When I setup the cnc'd frames for my cat build, it took awhile for me to realize a bevel was required in the front sections to avoid a wave in the hull. I used a 22 degree cutting head with a flush bearing. Had to add a piece temp for the bearing to ride iirc or I bumped the top edge woth bearing? But just a heads up for you to remember.

Your plans might even advise.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
They are ramset nails that were shot into the concrete. Should anchor with bolts instead?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:37 pm
by fallguy1000
Just make sure they aren't loose. Ramsets should be fine.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:37 pm
by FluidDynamic
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:28 pm They are ramset nails that were shot into the ground. Should anchor with bolts instead?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm
by FluidDynamic
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:28 pm They are ramset nails that were shot into the concrete. Should anchor with boots instead?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:38 pm
by FluidDynamic
I've been reading Jasmine and Dynamos panga 20 builds and have a question about bending the bottom around the frames. It looks like they used Meranti for there bottom panels. If I'm using Okoume, will I have as much trouble as they did?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:32 am
by OrangeQuest
Okoume bends easier than Meranti.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:19 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, OQ is absolutely correct!! Okoume BS1088 is a lighter and easier to bend & shape!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 pm
by FluidDynamic
I was going to put Frame D on tonight, but ran out of screws. I have question on the deck. I would like to finish the top of the deck so I can epoxy and varnish it. The plans call for 1 layer of biaxial tape at the seams. If I place biaxial on the top of the deck, won't this show through the epoxy. Is there a way I can use woven so the weave can disappear?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm
by jacquesmm
I deleted my previous answer, sorry.

That edge "problem" exists on all our boats along the chines, transom, bow etc.
In some cases like this one, we specify tape over the deck to side seam.
If you use non-skid on the deck, there will be no problem on that side, the non-skid hides that small edge.
Along the hull side, keep in mind that the edge is just under the rubrail and will be barely visible anyway.
I would still fair with putty and sand it but not worry too much about it because the shadow of the rubrail will hide it.
If you want it mirror perfect, there is only one solution: fair and sand.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:14 pm
by fallguy1000
I was gonna answer this is a JM question, but he beat me to it!

Skip the biax tape.

Is there a coaming or rubrail?

How will you finish the ply edges?

My brother ran rubrails on outside and then we had some unevenness with the thickened epoxy and he opted to paint the rail.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:46 pm
by jacquesmm
To skip the tape is also a possibility. Those boats are very strong with the deck epoxied on the rubrail and an inwale. The inwale is a batten that you add along the sheer, inside. You glue the deck to it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:57 pm
by fallguy1000
jacquesmm wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:46 pm To skip the tape is also a possibility. Those boats are very strong with the deck epoxied on the rubrail and an inwale. The inwale is a batten that you add along the sheer, inside. You glue the deck to it.
The tricky bit will be hiding the ply edge. The ideal is is the deck sits down inside the inwhale and rubrail. Of course, this creates a void for ingress...

So, on the windward 15, we wrapped the deck and rubrail with glass and painted the edges black to deal with variations in the void fill. It looks super and I have posted it before, so must refrain. The deck itself is varnished.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks for the replies. I finally got frame D placed and will be putting E up tonight. I also received my plywood today. The curb side delivery was tough when I had to open the box at the curb and carry each piece by myself up a hill and into the garage. Finally, I am ready to start cutting some plywood.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
Plywood looks good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:05 pm
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, Nice!! I hope R&L did a good job in the delivery!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
No issues with the plywood. No issues with delivery.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
What is the point of placing the stringers on now if I'm going to remove all of the frames when it's flipped?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:16 pm
by jacquesmm
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:10 pm What is the point of placing the stringers on now if I'm going to remove all of the frames when it's flipped?
Does that mean you are thinking of planking without the stringers? The stringers will help guarantee a straight run on the planing area. Without them, there could be a hook or a hog that you don't see.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:22 pm
by GuyP
I believe they will keep the hull panels in line as they are being stitched and tacked together. Let’s see what the veterans say.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 pm
by GuyP
Oops. Jacques beet me to it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
Never built a boat before so I didn't really know what the point was. I see now. Thanks. I have the plywood, but not the epoxy yet. It was supposed to come today, but I saw the ups truck drive right by.

I know I've read not to use patterns to cut out the plywood, but I use microstation on a daily basis which I used to recreate the plans. I then have been printing the patterns out on mylar so there is no shrinkage. I'll have to put the patterns back on the frames so I can mark where the notches need to be cut out. Although I have been using patterns, I have been checking all of the measurements which have all checked out. I did catch a printing error which could have messed up the frames.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:51 pm
by Fuzz
I am really happy to see a panga going together. I have a soft spot for them :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:42 am
by fallguy1000
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:51 pm I am really happy to see a panga going together. I have a soft spot for them :wink:
I want to like them, but can't get used to the narrow beam or what I perceive as narrow beam.

Anyone know why they are narrow?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:44 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:41 pm Never built a boat before so I didn't really know what the point was. I see now. Thanks. I have the plywood, but not the epoxy yet. It was supposed to come today, but I saw the ups truck drive right by.

I know I've read not to use patterns to cut out the plywood, but I use microstation on a daily basis which I used to recreate the plans. I then have been printing the patterns out on mylar so there is no shrinkage. I'll have to put the patterns back on the frames so I can mark where the notches need to be cut out. Although I have been using patterns, I have been checking all of the measurements which have all checked out. I did catch a printing error which could have messed up the frames.
You might need to bevel forward edges of the last two frames. I did on mine and some similarities; despite being a very different hull. Oops, already mentioned.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:14 am
by FluidDynamic
What frames are you talking about beveling? E and F or A and B?
The narrow beam is what I want in a small boat. I have a 28 foot McKee Craft with a 10 foot beam. This boat draws 30 inches of water and I can't get it in narrow places for inshore fishing. I wanted a boat that can take Bay chop and also float in less than a foot of water. I know that it has it's limitations, but so does my McKee Craft. It will be used for me and one of my kids. No more than two people in boat. Anymore than that, we will take the other boat out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:46 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:14 am What frames are you talking about beveling? E and F or A and B?
The narrow beam is what I want in a small boat. I have a 28 foot McKee Craft with a 10 foot beam. This boat draws 30 inches of water and I can't get it in narrow places for inshore fishing. I wanted a boat that can take Bay chop and also float in less than a foot of water. I know that it has it's limitations, but so does my McKee Craft. It will be used for me and one of my kids. No more than two people in boat. Anymore than that, we will take the other boat out.
Frames toward the bow is all.

I don't know if Mertens already figures that in or not. I just had some trouble with the issue in a different build.

Thanks for the feedback on the Panga. They are neat boats and I love the lines or I wouldn't be cheering you on.

They use them a lot fishing around Mexico and I think they use them nearshore in deeper water. This may be the confusion for me.

Perhaps they do so for the versatility to fish beach edges?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:05 am
by TomW1
Fallguy the original Panga was developed by Yamaha as part of a project for a World Bank project for 3rd world countries. They were designed to be seaworthy, easily powered and easily built. The narrow beam resulted as part of the seaworthy and easily powered part. The first ones were about 22' long and others developed from about 19 - 28' long. Wikipedia has more info.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:16 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have marveled at the beauty of a Panga for years. I'm now building one.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:02 pm
by fallguy1000
TomW1 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:05 am Fallguy the original Panga was developed by Yamaha as part of a project for a World Bank project for 3rd world countries. They were designed to be seaworthy, easily powered and easily built. The narrow beam resulted as part of the seaworthy and easily powered part. The first ones were about 22' long and others developed from about 19 - 28' long. Wikipedia has more info.

Tom
Cool. I had no idea and will read up on them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:28 am
by TomTom
Looks are a somewhat subjective thing - the Panga looks have grown on me over time - but maybe it is because Form follows function!! You absolutely can not beat a Panga as the most versatile and capable offshore fishing boat for its size. It punches so far above its weight class.

The ability to troll lures at any speed you like, with no planing hump to get over, a very small prop wash so u can fish your lures really close, and do all this on half or a third the fuel of a similar sized planing hull is what makes them so great.

Image

Here is a well kitted out yamaha Panga 23 that regularly outfishes everyone all on about 12 gallons of fuel a day!!

It has a canvas dodger and they have raised the rod holders at the back and added thin sheets of fiberglass to keep it drier. The free board is pretty low and these ones are not self bailing - though the hulls are foamed so they don't sink. Not a lover of their looks but they work great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:36 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I made a mistake with applying the marinepoxy to the transom. I ordered and used slow hardener. My garage want get above 65 for a week. It will probably range from 55 to 70 for the next week. Is the transom ruined, or will it eventually harden?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:58 pm
by Fuzz
Should not be a problem. I used Marine epoxy with slow hardner on my transom. I keep my work area at 60f and it was hard as a rock overnight. If it has been over 24 hours and it is still not hard I would be wondering if I mixed it correct. Now if it is 40f overnight and only warms up to 60f during the day it could take some time for it to set but it will with a little warmer weather.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:05 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks, I was hoping I didn't mess it up. I'll check it tomorrow and see if it's hardening. I guess I could add some heat with maybe a warning light.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:47 pm
by fallguy1000
I screwed up one batch on my build. Forgot to stir enough. Took me 8 hours to remove the glass.

It was cold, too, so lost some days thinking it was the cold.

Those halogen heat lamps work well, but keep em back far and don't use them unattended.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
I hope I'm stirring enough. I put 2 parts resin in one cup then 1 part hardener in another. I pour the resin from one cup to the other then stir for a minute. I then pour that cup back to the other cup and stir for another minute. I do the same another 2 times. Might be a little overkill.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:14 am
by fallguy1000
One minite 12 oz or less
Two minutes bigger...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:37 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, Maybe a little overkill on mixing, go with guidance from FallGuy. What is your current day-time and night-time temps in your area? Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:20 am
by FluidDynamic
Wed H 61 L 35, Thur H 57 L32, FRI H 59 L 39 The garage is much warmer than the outside temps. Should be at least 70 in garage today.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:50 am
by fallguy1000
Epoxies generally cure okay above 60F. Below 60F, I have had trouble.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:57 am
by FluidDynamic
My question is, if it dips below, does it stop curing. Will it start to cure again if it is 60 and above?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:58 am
by Jeff
No, it does not stop but the curing process will slow as temps get cooler!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:17 am
by FluidDynamic
Ill check it when I get home from work. I forgot this morning. Its probably cured by now. It was above 60 for most of the night last night and my garage was warmer. When I was looking at the curing chart, I thought it was hours not minutes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:55 am
by Jeff
OK, let me know!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
The epoxy cured. No problem.

I placed the transom a little earlier. I ran out of 2x4's so I had to temporarily brace the transom. I'll build something more substantial tomorrow. On my plywood cuts, does it matter if it's off a little. The transoms edges overlapped each other a little. I'm assuming this will be taken care of with either sanding or epoxy putty? I guess the stringers are next. I've been checking the cross dimensions and the dimensions between each frame. Everything is lining up. The stringers should go in no problem. The stringers will be cut with notches. I'll have to cut notches in the frames.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:37 pm
by Fuzz
Glad to hear the epoxy set up like it should for you :D About the transom, sand off the parts that stick out too far. If it is a little short remember "gaps are good" This style of building is pretty forgiving of small errors.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:38 am
by Jeff
Glad the epoxy cured for you!! Watch your temps, especially the overnight drops!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 am
by OrangeQuest
Not only dropping temps but in high humidity the moisture will want to stick to everything. Increases risk of epoxy wanting to blush. I avoid epoxy work if temps will be in the low 60s in a 24 hour forecast.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:21 am
by Bogieman
8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:27 pm
by Fuzz
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 am Not only dropping temps but in high humidity the moisture will want to stick to everything. Increases risk of epoxy wanting to blush. I avoid epoxy work if temps will be in the low 60s in a 24 hour forecast.
If I did it that way there would only be 3 days in the year I could lay epoxy :P

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:44 pm
by Jaysen
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:27 pm
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 am Not only dropping temps but in high humidity the moisture will want to stick to everything. Increases risk of epoxy wanting to blush. I avoid epoxy work if temps will be in the low 60s in a 24 hour forecast.
If I did it that way there would only be 3 days in the year I could lay epoxy :P
you barely have 3 days a year where your tongue won't stick to a metal pole!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:00 pm
by BB Sig
Jaysen wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:44 pm
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:27 pm
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 am Not only dropping temps but in high humidity the moisture will want to stick to everything. Increases risk of epoxy wanting to blush. I avoid epoxy work if temps will be in the low 60s in a 24 hour forecast.
If I did it that way there would only be 3 days in the year I could lay epoxy :P
you barely have 3 days a year where your tongue won't stick to a metal pole!
I wish we could "like" posts!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:27 pm
by OrangeQuest
The months March, April, May, October and November have a nice average temperature.
Hot season / summer is in May, June, July, August, September and October.
On average, the warmest month is August.
On average, the coolest month is January.
The average annual maximum temperature is: 80.6° Fahrenheit (27.0° Celsius)
The average annual minimum temperature is: 60.8° Fahrenheit (16.0° Celsius)

The monthly mean minimum and maximum temperatures over the year in Houston, United States of America.
Average min and max temperatures in Houston, United States of America Copyright © 2019 www.weather-and-climate.com

Notice they only list a hot season (6 months), no cold season or cool even. But we do have 5 months that are considered "nice" season.
I can afford to be picky on when I sling epoxy or paint! :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:40 pm
by piperdown
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:27 pm The months March, April, May, October and November have a nice average temperature.
Hot season / summer is in May, June, July, August, September and October.
On average, the warmest month is August.
On average, the coolest month is January.
The average annual maximum temperature is: 80.6° Fahrenheit (27.0° Celsius)
The average annual minimum temperature is: 60.8° Fahrenheit (16.0° Celsius)

The monthly mean minimum and maximum temperatures over the year in Houston, United States of America.
Average min and max temperatures in Houston, United States of America Copyright © 2019 www.weather-and-climate.com

Notice they only list a hot season (6 months), no cold season or cool even. But we do have 5 months that are considered "nice" season.
I can afford to be picky on when I sling epoxy or paint! :D
Been ranging between 22 and 41 here. Not that conductive to epoxy....

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
I cut all the stringers this evening. I'll epoxy and tape the seams tomorrow night. I should be able to keep my garage warm enough for the epoxy to cure. If I'm going to notch my stringers and frames, should I splice the stringers on one side and then splice the other two stringers on the other side, then epoxy glue the two long stringers together?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:21 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm The epoxy cured. No problem.

I placed the transom a little earlier. I ran out of 2x4's so I had to temporarily brace the transom. I'll build something more substantial tomorrow. On my plywood cuts, does it matter if it's off a little. The transoms edges overlapped each other a little. I'm assuming this will be taken care of with either sanding or epoxy putty? I guess the stringers are next. I've been checking the cross dimensions and the dimensions between each frame. Everything is lining up. The stringers should go in no problem. The stringers will be cut with notches. I'll have to cut notches in the frames.
What is the transom angle at the DWL? It looks totally square to me. What am i missing?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:24 pm
by fallguy1000
Sometimes the pictures are deceptive. I also built my transom at 14 degrees to dwl, so that mght impact my perception.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:28 pm
by Fuzz
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:34 pm I cut all the stringers this evening. I'll epoxy and tape the seams tomorrow night. I should be able to keep my garage warm enough for the epoxy to cure. If I'm going to notch my stringers and frames, should I splice the stringers on one side and then splice the other two stringers on the other side, then epoxy glue the two long stringers together?
Do you mean splice with fiberglass? The two pieces of plywood used to make the stringer should have their joints offset by a foot or more. Once the two are glued together it is like one solid piece of wood.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, I meant fiberglass splice. The plans I have don't show an offset.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:37 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, I meant fiberglass splice. The plans I have don't show an offset. They are to be fiberglass spliced. See the thread shown in the picture attached.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
Don't know if the nesting drawings we're ever updated. It still shows the stringers that would have to be spliced. I think I misunderstood this post and thought they were supposed to be spliced. Oh well, they are cut and spliced already.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 pm
by FluidDynamic
fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:21 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm The epoxy cured. No problem.

I placed the transom a little earlier. I ran out of 2x4's so I had to temporarily brace the transom. I'll build something more substantial tomorrow. On my plywood cuts, does it matter if it's off a little. The transoms edges overlapped each other a little. I'm assuming this will be taken care of with either sanding or epoxy putty? I guess the stringers are next. I've been checking the cross dimensions and the dimensions between each frame. Everything is lining up. The stringers should go in no problem. The stringers will be cut with notches. I'll have to cut notches in the frames.
What is the transom angle at the DWL? It looks totally square to me. What am i missing?
It's just the picture distorting. There is an angle. I don't know what it is. The motor wells provided the angle that was specified by the plans.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 pm
by FluidDynamic
I epoxy glued the stringers this morning, cut the notches on the frames, and braced the transom. I should be able to place the stringers on the frames tomorrow.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have a question about using epoxy on fiberglass. When I built a paddleboard, I used cloth and filled the weave with multiple coats. Am I supposed to fill the weave with multiple coats of epoxy with the 12 oz biaxial cloth? If I only have to place one coat of epoxy on the hull, won't the sander eat some of the fiberglass cloth away. I'm a little confused on the steps to get to where I have a fair surface.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:52 am
by OneWayTraffic
Have a good look at the FS17LS build by shine on builders power boats. It goes through the steps. There may also be a tutorial in the How tos.

In brief.

Lay glass and when it kicks but before full cure you can fill the weave with a loose mix of epoxy, cabosil and or a microballon filler.

Then after it sets grind down obvious highs with a power sande

Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard

Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard

Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard

Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard
Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard
Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard
Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard
Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard
Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard

Then fill lows with fairing mix. WEST 407, 411 or similar

Longboard

Prime

I missed most of the above in my dinghy, so it looks a bit rustic.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:38 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 pm I have a question about using epoxy on fiberglass. When I built a paddleboard, I used cloth and filled the weave with multiple coats. Am I supposed to fill the weave with multiple coats of epoxy with the 12 oz biaxial cloth? If I only have to place one coat of epoxy on the hull, won't the sander eat some of the fiberglass cloth away. I'm a little confused on the steps to get to where I have a fair surface.
The sanding generally touches off the knitting or the stitching in biax. That stitch is a telltale and not part of the main fiberglass. There are basically two methods.

You can attempt primary bonding by fairing while the boat is not fully cured or working on green epoxy.

Or, you can sand the surface using the thread as a telltale and realizing if that thead vanishes, you have sanded plenty. Then follow sanding with fairing and the dreaded longboard.

You can try a weavefill approach, but I would not weavefill the knitting. It would be pretty deep..

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:38 am
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 pm I have a question about using epoxy on fiberglass. When I built a paddleboard, I used cloth and filled the weave with multiple coats. Am I supposed to fill the weave with multiple coats of epoxy with the 12 oz biaxial cloth? If I only have to place one coat of epoxy on the hull, won't the sander eat some of the fiberglass cloth away. I'm a little confused on the steps to get to where I have a fair surface.
The sanding generally touches off the knitting or the stitching in biax. That stitch is a telltale and not part of the main fiberglass. There are basically two methods.

You can attempt primary bonding by fairing while the boat is not fully cured or working on green epoxy.

Or, you can sand the surface using the thread as a telltale and realizing if that thead vanishes, you have sanded plenty. Then follow sanding with fairing and the dreaded longboard.

You can try a weavefill approach, but I would not weavefill the knitting. It would be pretty deep..
I see the stitching your talking about after my splices cured. So, sand it down until the stitching are gone. Won't there still be areas that will not get touched by the sander. Does this matter?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:25 pm
by FluidDynamic
I notched the stringers and they fit perfect.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:15 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:23 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:38 am
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 pm I have a question about using epoxy on fiberglass. When I built a paddleboard, I used cloth and filled the weave with multiple coats. Am I supposed to fill the weave with multiple coats of epoxy with the 12 oz biaxial cloth? If I only have to place one coat of epoxy on the hull, won't the sander eat some of the fiberglass cloth away. I'm a little confused on the steps to get to where I have a fair surface.
The sanding generally touches off the knitting or the stitching in biax. That stitch is a telltale and not part of the main fiberglass. There are basically two methods.

You can attempt primary bonding by fairing while the boat is not fully cured or working on green epoxy.

Or, you can sand the surface using the thread as a telltale and realizing if that thead vanishes, you have sanded plenty. Then follow sanding with fairing and the dreaded longboard.

You can try a weavefill approach, but I would not weavefill the knitting. It would be pretty deep..
I see the stitching your talking about after my splices cured. So, sand it down until the stitching are gone. Won't there still be areas that will not get touched by the sander. Does this matter?
Any areas of heavy shine need sanding.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:52 pm
by FluidDynamic
I cut the bottom panels tonight. This is the first cut that I made without using patterns. Wasn't that bad.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:45 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, you are off to a good start!! I look forward to watching you build the Panga!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
I finished cutting my bottom panels and prepared them for splicing. Have to wait until the temperature rises tomorrow. Tonight will be in the low 40s.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm
by Eric1
Very Nice!! :)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:07 pm
by Rtorres2411
Looking good, hope to see the pictures of it stitched together soon.

Ruben

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:54 pm
by fallguy1000
We are subzeros overnites here...bit of a cold spell

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:00 am
by FluidDynamic
I'm hoping to get the bottom panels on by tuesday. High will be 63, but garage should be warmer. Took a mini vacation to Crystal River, FL and it will be in the 30s here tonight.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:32 am
by stickystuff
I live in Crystal River. Just a mile or less from all the springs. Should have hollerd. 3523426619

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:03 pm
by FluidDynamic
Might do that next time I come that way. Did some fishing in the river. Caught a dozen redfish all under size and a dozen specks also under sized. Still a fun trip. We usually come once a year during summer to scallop.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
Still too cold most of this week to epoxy except Tuesday and Wednesday which I will be out of town for work. Can't wait to get these bottom panels done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:50 pm
by FluidDynamic
I put the bottom panels on today and I'm cutting the side panels.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:21 pm
by FluidDynamic
I ran out of 12 oz biaxial fiberglass tape. I'm going to order more, but I would like to finish the back side of the side panels. Currently, I have one side taped with the 12 oz. West Marine has 17 oz biaxial tape. Would this be okay for one side of the side panels so I can stitch the bottom and side panels this weekend?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:48 pm
by Fuzz
I would use the 17 oz tape and move ahead. your Panga is looking good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
I couldn't find the 17 oz. Can I use 2 layers of 6 oz woven?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:19 pm
by Fuzz
I think that will work to let you move ahead. It might not as strong but most things on these boats are way stronger than what is needed.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:24 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:59 pm I couldn't find the 17 oz. Can I use 2 layers of 6 oz woven?
No. Woven is entirely different. Different glass directions, too.

It is not right.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:59 pm
by TomW1
Order the 12oz from here and you will have it by WED a short delay is not the end of the world, don't use the woven.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's actually 9 oz woven. Trying to figure out away to get by until I get some more biaxial. I don't want to wait a week. One side has biaxial already.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
Gotcha. Just wanted to work on it this weekend.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:57 pm
by fallguy1000
Just so you understand, some of the strands on the woven do nothing as a tape. The 0 strand runs the long way, doing zip for strength. The 90 strand gives the joint strength, but only against direct forces. So the 9 oz is only 4.5 oz of fabric strength in a single direction. The biax offers strength in multiple directions and at 12 oz is about 6 times stronger (or so). If you cut the woven on a angle, you can achieve the proper angles, but the thickness is off by about 2x. A 1208 tape is a 20 oz tape.

Then the work quality in a woven will suffer as it will be harder to work cutting diagonals and not damaging the light woven in wetting.

You can use no mat tapes as well in building. I opted away in my boat and the net penalty is 250#!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks, I understand now. I'll just wait. It's a little cold anyway and it's going to get much colder Monday and Tuesday. I still have plenty to do. I think I'm going to keep the bottom panels to make them easier to bend. Also need to clean my garage. There's about an inch of saw dust covering the entire floor.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:35 pm
by FluidDynamic
I feel like this thing is about to explode. No way I could have bent this plywood without kerfing. As you can see Frame A is giving me some trouble. If I leave it as it is for a few days, will it be easier to bend the last little bit? Station B through the Transom is good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:54 pm
by jacquesmm
It will take the shape as you let it sit but the Pangas have some compound curvature at the bow IF you try to make them follow the molds closely. It looks good from here.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
Looks a little short. Is it okay if I trim the bow mold so I can finish stitching up the bottom panels?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:23 pm
by fallguy1000
It would be the only ez solution and I would trim or move the bow mould.

Although I am not s&g expert, I don't see many alternatives, especially if the other side panel is same.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:33 am
by jacquesmm
Yes, trim the bow mold.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:02 pm
by fallguy1000
Now that JM spoke, you can fix that in fairing by making a reverse of the bow station; especially if you don't force the errors tight to each other.

I had to do something similar in my build to get two bows alike. If you look close, I wrote dimensions for the filler on the boat. The big hole is 9/16". My build was in female frames; so very hard to get bow perfect. It might have been easier to build square and a nosecone.

You might even have the bow mould offcut sitting there or a simple batten board might work as a fill guide.
5588F6C8-CAC2-4C5D-96E4-55F29D58403B.jpeg

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:44 pm
by FluidDynamic
The bottom panels line up perfect with each other. They just don't match the bow mold. I'm thinking the error was caused by me using the pattern that I cut the bow mold from. I did not use a pattern on the bottom panels. I used a batten to draw the curves. I suspect the differences between the curve drawn from a pattern vs a batten is the cause.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:34 pm
by jacquesmm
Paper patterns are unreliable: the paper shrinks, stretch and moves.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 pm
by fallguy1000
Keeping a batten round is dependent upon the batten thickness. I would probably try to avoid going tight there and fill it back, but it is up to you. If you like the way it looks; never look back.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
I printed my plans on mylar, so I don't think it was shrinkage. It was probably that batten size or an error on my part. I guess I won't really know if I should keep them tight or leave a larger gap until I put the side panels on. I went ahead and ordered the rest of my fiberglass and epoxy today. Hopefully I'll get everything by the weekend so I can put the tape on the other side of the side panels.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:27 am
by jacquesmm
The main function of the bow mold is to pull the tip of the bow back and eliminate the droopy bow syndrome. The shape of the bow is set by the plywood panels or by the builder if he wants to round it a little more or less.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:07 pm
by FluidDynamic
I cut the bow mold so I could stitch the bottom panels up. They lined up perfectly. Should be able to get the side panels on this weekend.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:23 pm
by OrangeQuest
Everything is really looking good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:10 pm
by fallguy1000
Looks good from here!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:43 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. I might take the next few days and clean up some of the saw dust while I wait for the rest of my materials. It's starting to pile up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:09 am
by cape man
Build on!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:08 am
by pee wee
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:43 pm Thanks. I might take the next few days and clean up some of the saw dust while I wait for the rest of my materials. It's starting to pile up.
I've come to the belief that cleaning and reorganizing is an integral part of the job, and things haven't come to a stop just because you're cleaning up. Keeping an uncluttered work area has lots of benefits, too.

Your build is looking good, I always liked the look of the pangas.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:14 pm
by fallguy1000
I can't stand a filthy shop.

I worked 12 years in a highly productive manufacturing plant. It was generally spotless in the work areas.

My shop is a mess right now.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
I got one side stitched up. I'll have the other side done tomorrow. Then I'll probably adjust and readjust for a few good days to get it lined up the best I can before placing tabs.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:31 am
by OrangeQuest
Looks good!

Looks like your build is going through some inspections, did it pass?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:36 am
by icelikkilinc
Boat looks great but please make sure your daughter has protection. She is bare foot walking on sand epoxy dust.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:19 am
by fallguy1000
Fun thing about stitch n glue is the speed of build.

And, yes, shoes are the law in the boat building shop.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
How am I supposed to take out the waves in-between frames A B C where the rub rails are supposed to go. Beyond that it's OK. If I don't pull the side panels in at Frames A and B, there are no waves, but there is a 3" gap between the side panels and the Frames.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:18 pm
by fallguy1000
This is a Mertens question. Give him some time.

If the panels fit the frame before you stitched; then the stitching is probably too tight. This would pull the top in and force the bottom out.

Generally, JM is not too concerned about frame gap, but within reaons I suppose. Is it 1.5" per side or 3" per side?

You do NOT pull it in. You would release th tension above or apply a shim/pipe to maintain a larger panel gap at the stitch.

I wish I could help more. Just wait for others or JM.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:46 pm
by Freaknreakn
Agree with fallguy. I used both shims and pvc piping to maintain spacing.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:50 pm
by FluidDynamic
3" per side.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
Sorry it's about 1.5" at Frame B and .5" at Frame A.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:25 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I did have them too tight. I cut all the ties and started using pipes and spacers. I still have about a 1 inch gap between frames B and C and the side panels. Is this exceptable?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:55 pm
by Fuzz
If everything is fair and like it should be those gaps would not bother me. Get one of your helpers to lay packing tape over the gaps from the inside and fill them in with wood flour glue. In fact it may be even easier to get a nice radius for laying to glass over.
All that being said if JM or someone who has built a panga thinks different do as they say. :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:15 am
by fallguy1000
Wait for Mertens, but things look good.

Fuzz gives good advice; you can use shipping tape to help hold thixo mixes.

Also, use a hawk when mixing. You want to wer the ply to avoid a dry joint, and probably let it tack even, but a stiffer mix will not fall oit as easy. When you mix on a board; mix small batches of epoxy until you get the hang of it. For 2:1 epoxies, a 3 oz batch is where you want to start. Then 2-2.5 times the epoxy by volume on the filler or About 6-7 volumetric ounces of filler ought to get you close to a stiff enough mix.

Also, peelply can be used to stabilize a wider joint and keep it from sagging and falling out.

Again, looking better.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:02 am
by Fuzz
Do as Fallguy says unless JM says different. Also if you are using non blushing epoxy you can partiality fill the gap, wait for it get pretty stiff, and then go back with another fill layer. It is surprising how big of a gap that can be filled. The only real downside is the added costs in fillers and epoxy.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:52 pm
by TomTom
Remember that in “stitch and glue” boat building the panel shapes should define the hull shape ... and the moulds are really there just to help support them whilst you stitch the panels together. If you have cut the panels correctly, I would focus more on making sure that the hull is nice and symmetrical and fair over being too concerned that the panels don’t quite meet the moulds in places.

There have been many successful builds on this forum where the panels didn’t quite meet the moulds; I think that much of this variation is dependent on which ply you use and which ply the designer had in mind when designing the boat - some are stiffer than others and so some variation is to be expected.

I remember trying all sorts of ways to get my panels to touch the moulds before accepting that fairness at this stage is more important.

Keep tweaking your cable ties, and even just leaving the panels a few days often helps them take shape.

But it looks pretty good to me how it is.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:41 am
by OrangeQuest
I may be way off on this but the diameter of the PVC pipe could be keeping the panel ends from being pulled together closer. Without cutting the tie wraps you could slide one or two of the pipe spacers out and use smaller diameter pipe. All your ties looks very tight and if I am wrong you just have to replace the spacers on the ones you removed.


DISCLAIMER: This is just my opinion and my understanding of physics, able to see how things go together but the picture could be at a bad angle, I don't have enough coffee yet or just all out wrong. It is very common on the last part. 8O

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:17 am
by jacquesmm
It looks fine to me. I get the panels a little closer but it is not very important. What matters is fairness.
Do not worry about the gaps between hull skin and frames. The hull shape is set but the hull panels, the frames and molds are there to support the hull panels but not to shape them.
I would keep going with the plywood as it is.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:20 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks, I did manage to get the gaps at frames B and C to less than an inch. Everything is stitched up and I've tabbed half of the boat

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:56 pm
by OrangeQuest
Oh yeah, that looks better!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
My helper helping me build our small boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:35 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, nice progress and always great to see family involvement!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:43 am
by TomTom
Your build looks great.

Glad you got the fairness sorted.

I am curious about the tabs? I thought that you could usually get away with putting thickened epoxy in the gaps between the wire ties, then pulling the ties and filling the gaps with more thickened epoxy and then taping the seams in one go? Or did you feel the panels were under a lot of tension?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:21 am
by fallguy1000
Tabbing is not the way I would be doing this work.

Tabbing was done on my build, but it is entirely different method.

There is almost zero fairing where we did tabbing, for one thing and we don't stitch in a female frame.

I would stop tabbing until Mertens speaks.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:06 pm
by jacquesmm
Each method is valid.
When spot welds are sufficient to hold the panels in place, tabs are not needed. They are needed only when the panels try to jump out of place or when the gap is a little too wide for spot welds. That seems to be the case here. Tabs or not tabs, the boat will be just as strong.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:18 pm
by Fuzz
If worried about fairness you can always cut some glass to fill between the tabs and level it all out. Probably not needed as there will be a lot of glass in that area but it could be done :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:44 pm
by fallguy1000
Fuzz wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:18 pm If worried about fairness you can always cut some glass to fill between the tabs and level it all out. Probably not needed as there will be a lot of glass in that area but it could be done :wink:
Yup, and you can hotcoat fill before taping as well. This also eliminates or reduces air pockets.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Too late now. It's all tabbed except for the keel seam. It was under and still is under a lot of tension. At what point would I put on the rub rails? At frames A, B, and C, I had to use screws to bend and hold the hulls around the panel. I was just curious to see what would happen if I unscrewed one and I could see the panel bowing out where the rub rails go. My question is how do I control the side panels from bowing out further away from the frames as I unscrew everything? Once I fiberglass the entire hull and epoxy the areas on the side panels that won't receive glass, will this control some of the tendacy to want to push out?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:59 pm
by Fuzz
Epoxy with no glass is not going to do anything for you. You may have to have the rub rails installed first to keep things in shape? Having never built a Panga do not take my guess as gospel :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:13 pm
by FluidDynamic
I was thinking about glassing the whole sides even though the plans only called for glass to be up part of the sides.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:30 pm
by Fuzz
Not sure if it is needed but it would help. Glass is way stronger in tinsel compared to compression. If you glass the outside the glass will not want to stretch and let the sides pouch out as much. I think I would still install the rub rails before flipping.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 am
by jacquesmm
Install the rubrail before flipping the hull and the shape will not change. I think that's what I recommend in the building notes.
In some cases, I recommend a temporary rubrail = a batten clamped to the sheer. You can remove it after flipping the hull. The rubrail gets in the way of sanding with a long board. It's your choice.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:00 pm
by FluidDynamic
Starting to regret tabbing with fiberglass. Sanding is tough. Please tell me when I get to the point I'm using quickfair to fair the hull, it sands easier.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:37 pm
by fallguy1000
I would probably only sand the high areas of the tabs and any not bonded to the wood for sure.

Then measure the spaces between tabs and glass up that width, no overlaps.

So, say you have 6", then glass inside the 6", but never overlap. To make future fairing easier, the tab lengths can be similar.

Then sand again.

Then apply a straight cabosil/epoxy thixo mix over the tabs where you will tape. Apply with a nice wide trowel like a 9" or so. Pass the mixture over the chine the wide way. For a 4" tape; go about 3" per side.

Then run your seams to spec provided by JM while the thixo is just starting to set. Consolidate well with a good consolidation roller.

The reason for thixo is to avoid air pockets in the spaces between tabs.

If not clear on this, ask away and plenty of support.

I have not seen the tabbing method used, but I am assuming you still will meet the tape specification..

I am qualified to help you mitigate the likelihood of air.

Using thixo mixes will reduce air pockets. If you see any larger air pockets; you MUST inject them. A dime size air pocket on the bottom will create a place for hydraulic erosion. All preventable, but easier to error now with tabbing.

If you wish to avoid more tabbing; you can also just skip the additional tabs and just apply the thixo before taping.

If, oth, you overlapped any tabs, get a flap disk and sand them off I'd say. Each layer of tape is about 0.040" and you don't want any xtra layers.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
Will I need to sand the epoxy in between the tabs that I've already placed? See the epoxy in between the tape in pic. I was under impression that I would need to sand this before applying anything between the tape that I've placed already.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:13 pm
by TomTom
A variable speed sander polisher like this https://www.makita.co.nz/products/model/9237CB will be your best friend...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have one, is the buffer just to knock the shine off?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:59 pm
by Fuzz
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:24 pm I have one, is the buffer just to knock the shine off?
If you already have a sander/polisher you need these. They will throw a lot of dust but they will make short work of the heavy sanding.
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/3m-gree ... e-disc-751
And you will need this also
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/3m-8510 ... read-85105
Having the right tools will make a ton of difference. There better options but they are lots more money and may not be worth it to you for just one project.
The link to the sanding disks did not work but I like the 3M hook and loop in either 36 or 40 grit. They are a little spendy but they work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, a random orbital sander is not cutting it for the heavy sanding.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:29 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:04 pm Will I need to sand the epoxy in between the tabs that I've already placed? See the epoxy in between the tape in pic. I was under impression that I would need to sand this before applying anything between the tape that I've placed already.
Yes. This can be done very quickly with something like 36-60 grit paper.

I use a festool quarter sheet sander for all my sanding.

Now n then a cheap random orbital with vacuum as well.

You can pick up a cheap ryobi? i think at HD. The papers are good for like ?6-10 sq ft of sanding or less if you hit rough edges.

But you will want to take the shine off.

It will be micro glass shards, so wear a mask and gloves and blast off with compressed air when you finish.

It shouldn't be that horrible...

IF you are using Silvertip epoxy; I consider the window open on their slow hardener for 24 hours. Almost as a rule, I sand at 12 hours or more though.

Also, duct tape or lint remover sheets are kept by my bed. That way, when I notice some glass in my ring finger webs; I can remove it. Water won't.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:34 pm
by fallguy1000
If you are having trouble; it is a likely a paper issue. Fiberglass eats sandpaper. I underbudgeted sandpaper by like a grand for my big build.

New piece, when it stops cutting; trashcan.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:43 pm
by FluidDynamic
Are there any issues using colloidal silica from West Marine if I'm using Marinepoxy?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:09 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:43 pm Are there any issues using colloidal silica from West Marine if I'm using Marinepoxy?
Nope.

With Marineepoxy, watch out for blush is all.

Also, mix the thixo on a smooth board, aka hawk.

The hawk helps you achieve the proper thickness by allowing a slump test. See if a pile sags...if it does, too loose, add more cab.

The hawk allows you more open time if you keep the mix flat and not big gobs while you work. I use fast epoxy for most of my thixo precoating/fillet work. I graduated up from slow, but gotta go quick! Stick with slow for your bottom work-big area for a rookie.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:33 pm
by FluidDynamic
I plan on using quickfair to fair the hull after filling. I have one question about filling the weave and one about the quickfair.

Is there a benefit to using a blended filler with silica and micro balloons or should I fill with silica or just micro balloons?

I know quickfair is used to fill the low spots, but I'm a little confused. If it cured, is it like epoxy where it has to be sanded for another layer to bond to it?. If I sand the high spots with the long board, the low spots were never touched by the sander. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:15 pm
by fallguy1000
No, you are spot on.

But you need to understand some key concepts.

Epoxy bonds in two ways.

Chemically and mechanically. The chemical bond is a far superior bond on a molecular level.

A mechanical bond is subject to the roughness of the substrate. Also called secondary bonding.

For example, a waxed vacuum table has epoxy poured onto the table and it does not stick. This is because there is obviously no chemical bond and the mechanical bond is too weak.

How to overcome the weak mechanical bond? Rough sanding of the substrate.

So, QF....we longboard sand it and as long as we are within their application window for primary bonding; no sanding of the substrate is required because the bond would be primary. However, if they suggest always sanding, then you longboard sand to fair and use guidepowder and hand sand the powder areas; clean and QF again which is the same for if you are outside the primary bonding window. I really dislike shine and always sand anything shiny.

Now, this is all great stuff, but I will tell you that you can also bond test to familiarize yourself. How? Well, fomd a board and put a hole or two in it and test one hole with QF inside the window and another test no sanding outside the window and then sand them in a day and check.

I have done enough sanding to tell you epoxy does not bond well to smooth surfaces in a secondary orechanical bond. A perfect test is a drop of thickened epoxy on a piece of glass vs a piece of wood vs the concrete floor. The mix will easily shear off the glass, and the concrete will ne stuck forever; the wood is generally also stuck, but can have some variation.

I use a balloons cab mix as a base for QF. It would get super spendy to used say 30 gallons of QF. I apply it with slow epoxy and sand it all back with 50-60 grit.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
Nothing to show yet. Took a break while I contemplated what route I was going with filling the areas between the tabs I placed. That was a big mistake. There was a few areas I really needed the tabs, but the majority I could have done without. I decided not to cut and place more tabs between the existing tabs. I decided as fallguy1000 suggested to just fill the gaps with thickened epoxy. I've done one side and now I'm just waiting for it to dry so I can sand. I've also been working on getting the proper radius on the seams. On some of the tabs I placed, the radius was too small and air was trapped between the glass and the wood flour epoxy mix. I ground out all of those mistakes and formed a new proper radius with no air gaps. I learned the hard way. It seams like ill have to grind some areas when I flip it to get a good filet. Is this common to have to prep the inside before filleting?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:26 pm
by fallguy1000
Yes. Absolutely in all building you end up with excess. I use the oscillating tool with a carbide head to remove unwanted chunks.

My boat has 128 feet of bottom chine, 128 feet of mid chine and 80 feet of deci chines where thixo squeeze out excess cutback was needed. We, of course, had to cut the outside vs you the in, but in 320 feet of chines; we had plenty of squeeze out areas.

All said, keep in mind you don't need to fully fill the gap on first go. You get another shot at the gap on reverse, so it isn't vital to fill under the first tape perfectly.

You do need to run tape seams over those chines yet, right?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 pm
by FluidDynamic
I should be able to run the tape over all seams by Monday. I don't know that I'll be able to do wet on wet for the tape and the blanket. Don't really have anyone to help. I would have to wait for a couple of weeks to get some help. All my friends are in that young kids stage and don't have a lot of time.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:14 pm
by fallguy1000
Wet on wet is too hard for the tapes and hull
Combo

But if you have multiple layers main hull; better when possible. Or minimize secondaries..,so you only samd overlap for example if you can't finish a single,etc.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
I've filled the areas between the tabs I placed and sanded it to a smooth surface. All of my radius are about 1/2" with no air gaps. The temp dropped again and I'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to warm up enough to tape all of the seams with biaxial. I'm starting to think ahead and was wondering after I place the fabric blanket over the hull and wet it out, how is the weave filling application of silica/micro balloons applied? Is it with a trowel?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:57 pm
by Browndog
You can use a variety of tools to spread fairing mixes. Plastic squeegees, putty knives, and tools for spreading drywall joint compound all work pretty well. In the thread for the FS-19 that I built last year there are some pictures of all the tools I used for both fairing and then sanding the hull.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:40 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:04 pm I've filled the areas between the tabs I placed and sanded it to a smooth surface. All of my radius are about 1/2" with no air gaps. The temp dropped again and I'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to warm up enough to tape all of the seams with biaxial. I'm starting to think ahead and was wondering after I place the fabric blanket over the hull and wet it out, how is the weave filling application of silica/micro balloons applied? Is it with a trowel?
Yes, ftmp.

Wider flatter the better.

We use progressive widths. Start at 9", then 12", then 22", and I have a 39" for my build; you won't need that.

The trowel edges need to be sort of spotless.

There are other guys here that can help you better. If the fairing mix doesn't work well; you might be too dry or you might want to switch to a commercial product like Quikfair.

I can't afford QF for my whole job, but plan to use it for all final fairing.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
I officially have no screws holding the hull in place. Everything has taken the correct shape and I'm ready to tape all of the joints. Should be able to place the biaxial cloth hopefully by Sunday.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:59 pm
by Fuzz
Getting to that point is a big step. Congratulations.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:10 am
by Jeff
Congrats!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:20 pm
by FluidDynamic
Can biaxial tape be placed upside down? Or dies it matter? It seams like I'm sanding the fiberglass first, not the stitching. Probably screwed it up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:29 pm
by cape man
You're fine. Just stop standing into the cloth and put another fill coat of epoxy. Looks like you just got into the top of the fibers.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:16 pm
by FluidDynamic
There's still shiny spots in between the fibers. Will this effect the bond?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:13 pm
by fallguy1000
Fill coat.

2 oz per sqyd is my calc

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm trying to decide if I have enough time to fibergoass the hull this afternoon. Both chines are taped and sanded. The keel still needs some tape and the transom. If I'm trying to do wet on wet for the remainder of the outside hull. Just don't know if I have enough time. I would at least like to get at least 2 coats of blended filler on the cloth as well. Can this be done before say midnight?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:18 pm
by fallguy1000
I never start a major project after lunch.

I have lotsa small stuff to do for after lunch goals.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
I went ahead and did it. About 7 hours. Now I have to figure out how long it's going to take to become tacky so I can put a coat of blended filler/ epoxy on. May have to call in sick in the morning. How long should I wait before I fill? It will be 45 degrees tonight and 65 during day tomorrow. Would it be possible to still get a chemical bond tomorrow at 3 pm. I finished wetting out epoxy at 10 pm.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:27 am
by cape man
Within 24 hours you can get a chemical bond. At least that was what the Cracker told me...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:54 am
by fallguy1000
As long as you didn't use a fast epoxy; I'd say 3pm is a good late go time.

But the morning would be my goal.

What epoxy again?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:56 am
by fallguy1000
Bow seam looks a bit odd. I would have done all my fairing work before any weave fills.

Might he the photo.

So hard to tell sometimes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's marinepoxy slow hardener. The photo makes seam look funny. In that pic, I hadn't wet that part out yet.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:16 pm
by fallguy1000
Just watch out for the greasy blush!

If you have blush; you need to soap and water wash and sand.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
They claim no blushing with slow hardener. I've never seen it, so hopefully I'd be able to tell.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:39 pm
by fallguy1000
All epoxies can blush; especially in an environment with changing humidities and temps.

A finger swipe.

Greasy is bad.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
Any idea how to fix this? I thought I had it right last night and I came home to this. Half of one chine is this way. It's still tacky from late applying last night.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:28 pm
by fallguy1000
Inject would be easiest.

You order flat nose injection needles and get the matching drill and two hole the holes and inject. One hole is a vent and all holes need to be high to beat gravitt.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:29 pm
by fallguy1000
Otherwise, you have to grind it all out to the edges and fill with some fiberglass and epoxy repair pieces and then sand and fair it all out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:45 pm
by Fuzz
What Fallguy said :wink:

I think guys are too worried over getting sharp edges and do not round over the edges enough before glassing.
Sometimes using too slow of hardner will let the resin drain away before it gels some. You might try thickening up the resin a little in that area to keep it from running away from you.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
I had a 1/2" or greater radius, the epoxy was rather runny.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:51 pm
by FluidDynamic
There's so many of them in just a 10' area of the chine, I'll just grind them and patch with some more glass. I haven't had that problem until now. Everything else looks good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:03 pm
by FluidDynamic
Frustrating

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:09 pm
by fallguy1000
When you grind; you can pour some pure epoxy into those holes to get any feather edges. Then fill with thixo.

I would use milled fiber in the repair.

Otherwise, you can also cut small bits of wetted woven glass and bed them into the thickened mix as well.

The good news is you caught it.

The best way to avoid this is to run thickened mix over all inside and outside radiuses with a flat trowel and then consolidate, but it is not ez and the laying the fabric requires rolling off a cylinder and it all gets very difficult.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:55 pm
by Fuzz
Sounds like you rounded things over plenty. The rest of your glass work looks so good I think the resin just ran away from you. Do as Fallguy says to fix things. And the next time you have an outside corner mix up a little thickened epoxy to use there. Just have to make sure the glass is well wet out when doing it. I know this bugs you but it is no big deal. You will fix it and move on. Unless you are very lucky this will not be the last little boo-boo :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:21 am
by cape man
The injection method works well. I had maybe 12 such places on the inside seams on the SC 16 that I filled with a needle.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:32 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm going to grind the bubbles out. I didn't have time to do it while it was still uncured. I did manage to get the epoxy/blended filler on last night except that small area where I'll have to grind. I need to be careful and only grind the outside layer of glass. The taped layer looked good. Anyway, the cab micro balloon mix grinds way easier than pure epoxy. I grinded the area in the pics in 10 minutes. A couple of hours of grinding at the most should do it. Think I'll need to level the areas as shown near the keel. Should I do this with quickfair or should Istill put another layer of blended/ epoxy mix on all of the low spots? Also,there are a few wavy areas on the chines between the frames. There not bad, just slightly noticeable. Should this also be corrected before the fairing compound is used?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:06 pm
by fallguy1000
Your call.

For the grind out areas, the best thing is to put wet epoxy in first and then overcoat with thickened.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I'll fill one more time with the blend. Only have 3 quarts of quickfair.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:53 pm I think I'll fill one more time with the blend. Only have 3 quarts of quickfair.
Do a guide coat then your last coat of blend.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:47 pm
by FluidDynamic
I've probably asked this question before, but I'm still a little confused as I keep seeing pictures of other projects where it looks like people are placing a new layer of epoxy over shiny low spots. I was under the impression that all shiny areas must be sanded if the previous layer was allowed to cure. I have some areas like this as shown in the pictures below. Once and for all, should I sand every area like the second pic, or is it okay to leave some shiny areas since the areas adjacent are sanded?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:30 am
by fallguy1000
I sort of use a dime for a rule.

If I have an area smaller than a dime, I consider it done. After I blow the dust off, if I see a spot that really looks shiny and it bothers me, I hit it by hand with some 36-60 grit paper. Some of those grooves down in the glass are nearly impossible to get.

Now, all that said, this is the reason most of us use peelply. It leaves a surface that is not shiny, except if the peelply laid proud of the surface. It also prevents sags and runs.

I would use pp on initial glasswork. I would only use it on large fills after that. I would not use it with quikfair. And a tip about peelply. The cheaper stuff is actually generally more pleasant to work with. The heavy aircraft grade stuff with lines for reveal is harder to use.

So, sand all, blow or remove dust. Review your work with a piece of sandpaper and hit any areas of shine that are bigger than a dime or grooves/lowspots that look really shiny. Blast again, and go for it. Wetout/fair/ etc.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:44 am
by FluidDynamic
Thank you, that clears it up. What size long board would be sufficient for project? Any particular board or do most people make there own?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:31 am
by fallguy1000
Measure max width of each flat section and report it back here.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:05 pm
by TomW1
The boards that they sell on here work well and sanding paper is available through here also. Or you can make your own, I did, one solid for flat areas and one flexible for curved areas.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:16 pm
by fallguy1000
A couple of ways you can go.

You can make a sanding board from a good flat board and two furniture legs from Home Depot. You can buy adhesive back flooring paper from the Rental shop at HD.

Or, for a bigger build, you can buy flexisander tools.

I have both. My board sander is warped and need to make a new one.

I have the 21" and 39" trowels and the ?34" or so sander iirc in flexisand and I bought mirka in bulk. The sander plugs into my vac, but the static can be bad, so I might need to buy a new Festool vac. They are horribly expensive, so I might try the antistatic line first.

You can also use a padded random orbital, but very hard on flat panels to get right.

I am dreading the hull sanding and plan to hire help.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
Should be 3 feet. I looked at the flexisander. Do they work well?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:25 pm
by fallguy1000
I think those HD sand papers are 18" long, so you get a noce piece of hardwood and make a sanding board, say 3" wide. Cost is like 20 bux.

Or you can buy tools from flexisanderusa.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
Had to take a break from sanding and take the other boat out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:13 pm
by fallguy1000
Damn! What are those?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Triggerfish. Great to eat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
Where to get sandpaper for flexisander?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:55 pm
by Jeff
Nice days catch FluidDynamic!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:00 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:29 pm Where to get sandpaper for flexisander?
I bought online from some abrasives outfit in a roll for good price. I can look it up if u need. I might need some varying grits.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:03 pm
by fallguy1000

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:52 am
by pee wee
Another source for what you might need:

https://www.woodworkingshop.com/abrasive-rolls/

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:05 am
by fallguy1000
pee wee wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:52 am Another source for what you might need:

https://www.woodworkingshop.com/abrasive-rolls/
He wants to know a source for Mirka Abranet. The stuff is woven and allows suction to pull fairing compounds into the trash can/vac instead of all over the longboard operator.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:27 am
by pee wee
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:05 am He wants to know a source for Mirka Abranet. The stuff is woven and allows suction to pull fairing compounds into the trash can/vac instead of all over the longboard operator.
I (obviously) didn't know that. I use the Abranet discs and it's great stuff, I think getting the dust picked up faster seems to make it last longer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:31 am
by fallguy1000
pee wee wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:27 am
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:05 am He wants to know a source for Mirka Abranet. The stuff is woven and allows suction to pull fairing compounds into the trash can/vac instead of all over the longboard operator.
I (obviously) didn't know that. I use the Abranet discs and it's great stuff, I think getting the dust picked up faster seems to make it last longer.
I am something of a nit Hank. So, please laugh at me here!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:14 am
by BB Sig
:lol: :lol: :lol:

At double the price, does it last twice as long? Not being a nit, just curious! :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:56 pm
by TomW1
Here is another source. https://woodworker.com/search.html?sear ... archmode=2 I use www.woodworker.com for a lot of my woodworker and sanding supplies. If the Mirka discs are not what you are looking for they have many other sanding disks and rolls and will custom cut to your requirements. I use there 6" 8 hole Super Gold for normal sanding. I used this https://woodworker.com/4-12x10yds-120-g ... 76-106.asp for fairing board just made them 4.5 x 30 and cut the sanding paper off the roll as needed.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:51 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yeah, I was looking for the 4.5" x what ever roll length. As far as the discs go, I've been using the shopsmith 6" discs from Lowe's. I bought the gator power discs, because they were cheap for a 50 pack. Each disc only lasted a minute or so. The shopsmith lasted a lot longer. Are the mirkas that much more superior? I also used a net style disc and liked it, but the smallest available at the store was 100 grit.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:42 am
by topwater
Supergrit.com they have pretty much anything you need.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:13 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, were you and your family anywhere close to those horrible tornadoes? Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
We don't live near the area, but was driving through for vacation in the area where it happened. Missed us by a couple of miles. Got a few pics.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:46 pm
by FluidDynamic
How do I handle this? It's less than 1/4". Should I fix it or should I leave it. It's symmetrical like this on both sides of boat. If I do fill it, can I use the blended mix or should it be a layer of fiberglass/ epoxy? It's only the first 5' of the front of the boat.there was a slight overlap of the bottom panel over the side panel that caused this.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:01 pm
by Fuzz
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... play_media
From looking at this what you are looking at MIGHT not even be in the water when running. If that is the case it should not make any difference. But I am only guessing here the only answer that matters is what JM has to say.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
That area will never be in the water. Is only the first 5'.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:02 am
by Fuzz
Can you post a picture showing the whole bottom from bow to stern?
Your sanding/fairing looks very nice :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:04 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:46 pm How do I handle this? It's less than 1/4". Should I fix it or should I leave it. It's symmetrical like this on both sides of boat. If I do fill it, can I use the blended mix or should it be a layer of fiberglass/ epoxy? It's only the first 5' of the front of the boat.there was a slight overlap of the bottom panel over the side panel that caused this.
My boat and these get faired out.

But if symmetrical, you can let it go if it doesn't bother you. Fairing that will take about 4 days to a week.

I would use, by volume..

Epoxy - 1 part
Cabosil - 1 part
Balloons - 2 parts
Adjust stiffness on a mixing board by spreading flat amd salt shakering cabosil or adding 1 ounce of mixed epoxy. Must be fairly stiff and not slump or sag when mounded in the middle of the board.

Maximum batch size is 12 oz epoxy. Final batch should ne commercial fairing compound after you blow the boat with air. The above mix will pinhole.

Consider peelply on the first shot; you will end up a bit low, but pull the peelply; scuff shiny spots and go to next coat which is a fill to the right level all the way. Or try for the fill first pass and sand.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:05 am
by jacquesmm
Is that the side or the bottom?
If it's the side, leave it as it is. In production boats, we try to create that type of camber. Aesthetically, it looks better than a boring flat surface.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:07 am
by FluidDynamic
It's the side panels.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:28 am
by cracked_ribs
I would say leave it and be pleased with yourself for managing to work in a nice bit of compound curvature which is, IMO, difficult, and aesthetically desirable.

I would not even consider trying to remove that.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:42 pm
by Fuzz
Dang I must have been cross-eyed last night. I thought it was the bottom :oops:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm in that "sand for hours and nothing looks like it's happening" stage. It's been a couple of weeks sanding the first coat of blended filler. Only finished one side and the transom. I'm a little confused when I'm supposed to put a guide coat on. I was planning on filling low areas one more time with the blended mix. Overall, everything looks fairly smooth except some low areas near the keel and other tape joints. If I put another coat of blended filler on, when do I put on a guide coat. The blended filler dries a redish brown color. Am I supposed to put a guide coat over that coat? Little confused with the guide coat. I understand the concept and could see where it would be used once primer was applied, but should place it over the last blended fill?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:20 pm
by cracked_ribs
Personally, I like to sand the filler to the point that I think it's getting either smooth enough, or in need of more filler, then throw on a really light guide coat, let it dry, and sand the whole thing really lightly. That way you get a look at the highs and lows and you can apply filler accordingly.

I think some people put on filler and then a guide coat right away and sand through it, which for all I know, works better. I like the "guide coat after sanding" approach partly because when you've absolutely had it with sanding, you can spray the guide coat, and say to yourself, "well, I would keep sanding, but unfortunately I have to wait for the guide coat to dry."

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:33 pm
by FluidDynamic
Makes sense.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:01 am
by fallguy1000
You can also use guide powder.

Basically when you feel like the boat looks great; you powder the area or entire boat and then longboard sand.

Guide powder is basically carbon black.

So, when you sand; the high areas will turn color and the lows stay black.

Then you know where to add fairing compounds.
(This is transom only)
B7BD2DC0-FC7F-408A-8905-D4FCDAD1A8F0.jpeg

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:13 am
by cvincent
I like to apply one coat of primer when everything looks smooth. The primer coat will reveal areas that need additional work. For a very smooth finish the Quik fair product cannot be beat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:28 am
by FluidDynamic
Almost done sanding the first coat of blended filler. I've only had time to sand a few hours for the last couple of weeks. Work had me out of town. Everything looks pretty good, except where I had to fix the air bubbles on the starboard chine. I've repaired the area, but it's a little wavy. I'll need to even it out. Is the blended filler okay to use to fix this or should I use something harder? Except for that one chine, I think I'm ready for quickfair. First pic is the wavy chine.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:37 am
by Fuzz
If I were going to put something on the chine I would want it to be tougher than the fairing mix. Wood flour, chopped glass,milled glass something on those lines.
Your hull is looking good :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:13 pm
by fallguy1000
On the chines, I like to use epoxy, cabosil and milled fibers for anything major much. About 1-1-1 by volume will be a bit runny, so add a bit from there.

It doesn't fair too well, so I like peelply. Then you can really fashion the edge with the inside of your thumb and index finger.

In the case of the wave, you might want to write the depth on the boat of the infill. That way if you need 3/16" in a spot, you have a good reference.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:27 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finally done sanding the first coat of the blended filler. That stuff is hard to sand. The longer it cured, the harder it was to sand. I have applied the epoxy, cabosil, milled fibers to the wavy chine. Waiting to cure then sand. I think I'm ready for quickfair.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:08 pm
by fallguy1000
The reason for the hard stuff is chines can take a beating.

But you don't want that stuff real humpy as you now know.

Glad to hear you can get to QF.

If you can put it on in the morning; it speeds fairing up a bit.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
I filled a few more areas last night around 10 pm. Temp was in 50s in garage last night and 70s today. The epoxy/ blended filler that I used is not completely cured. It's usually cured in 24 hours in those temps. If it's cured some, is that a sign that it will continue to cure. Could the mixture of hardener/ epoxy been a little off? I can leave nail imprints.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:26 am
by fallguy1000
Here is a specific recipe and walk through.

Epoxy is 2:1 Silvertip

3 oz

Add one ounce hardener to 2 ounces resin. Mix well for a good minute (2 minutes is standard, but small amounts homogenize faster).

Add a shot glass of cabosil.
Add three shot glasses of bubbles.

Mix all in a bucket.

Move the mixture to a board and mix very thoroughly woth a 4" trowel. If you are fast, the mixing time to finish can be as little as 3 minutes. If you use fast epoxy with a 26 minute cure; you want to be fast.

Slump test. Pile the mix up in the middle of the board. If it moves; it needs more fillers. Salt shaker it onto the board and mix fast and well. Test again.

Keep the mix flat and thin on the board to avoid kickong it off. The largest batch I ever mix is 12 oz epoxy. It is a massive batch.

Epoxy does not perform well at 50 degrees. There is a magic temperature for epoxies somewhere around 55-60, below that and the gel times are massively retarded.

My advice is to make sure it gets sufficient heat.

If you failed to mix the epoxy; usually all the filler mixing will get it close enough. If you mixed incorrect ratios; nothing can help you.

My hunch is your cure was retarded to the weather. It is always harder to work outside on boats.

When it does cure; be especially cautious about blush. It will feel greasy. You wash it with warm soapy water and rinse.

I think you'll be fine after it heats up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:31 am
by fallguy1000
I see now that you had given it 24 hours and posted after a day went by....

Something was probably not done right....wrong ratio or you failed to premix it well enough or post mix it well enough.

Test a section with a sharp chisel and see if you can peel/scrape it off.

If it peels with a chisel; you need to remove it, most likely.

Give us a picture of the area..

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:03 pm
by jacquesmm
If you want a sharp chine angle, finish the corner with a milled fiber putty. It is very hard to sand, use it for the chine only.
Note that production boats have a chine radius of 3/8" or large and it is usually filled with a big glob of gel-coat. Your chine will be better and stronger anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:44 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's still not completely cured. It feels like a very hard rubber. Thankfully it was a very small area. Yes, I was sharpening the transom corners. I should have used the milled fibers anyway. I'll sand them back down, clean in really well and do it again. I did manage to route out where my rope rub rails is going.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
Rounded over the bottom of rail as well.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:31 pm
by FluidDynamic
I got a little more done today. I placed a 1/2" radius filet on the bottom of the rail. Used peel ply to smooth it out with a 1" pvc pipe. The other side came out really well. Second pic is the torture device.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:16 pm
by fallguy1000
Lookin good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:55 am
by OrangeQuest
Yes, Looking very good! Looking at the long board makes me itch! :)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:39 am
by Jeff
Nice work!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:02 pm
by FluidDynamic
The rail is made from Southern Yellow Pine. Would I need to put a layer of fiberglass offer it or will a couple coats of epoxy work? I originally planned to cover the rail with 6 oz woven.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:22 pm
by TomW1
I would definitely cover it to provide the strength and abrasive resistance of the fiberglass.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:16 pm
by sharkbait2576
Hi there. Getting ready to start my first boat. Panga 20. I have my plywood and wood for the jig. I was under the assumption that the frame shapes were built out of marine plywood. I thought to myself why? I see you did yours as you said out of MDF. Is there any reason not to do this? Seems like it saves a bunch of expensive wood to use cheaper wood. Am I missing anything? Sorry for the ignorance. Trying to catch up!

Thanks

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:33 pm
by Browndog
Only the frames that will eventually be part of the boat need to be made of marine plywood. All other temporary frames can be made of less expensive materials.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:50 pm
by jacquesmm
What you see in MDF are throw away molds.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:00 pm
by sharkbait2576
Ok. Thanks very much. I appreciate it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:04 pm
by FluidDynamic
When I was first thinking of building, I didn't have the money to buy all of the wood at once. I wanted to get started, so I used mdf for the molds. Yes, they are throw away. I'm actually glad I used mdf and not the Marine ply because I may have to modify my frames a little to make everything fit. My errors. I also had to use quite a few screws to hold everything in place before welding. I would have butchered my Marine ply if I had used them as frames.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:00 pm
by sharkbait2576
Thanks very much. I think I will be doing the same thing. I'll extra marine plywood but that's just fine.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:30 am
by FluidDynamic
Your still going to use the Marine ply for your frames. When you flip the boat to finish inside, you will remove the MDF. The only think you keep is the hull and the stringers. Then you will cut your permanent frames using the marine ply and place them in the boat along with the stringers. Still need all of the Marine ply the kit specified. The MDF is additional.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:07 am
by sharkbait2576
Ahh. Now I have it. I see what you're saying. Thanks very much again!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
I just realized I'm going to be fairing for a while. What's the best filling board? I used the flashing shown in picture for first coat of quickfair. It didn't seam to fill very well.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:25 pm
by fallguy1000
I use drywall trowels. Flat spade type 12" then move onto bigger if available

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:05 am
by OrangeQuest
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:25 pm I use drywall trowels. Flat spade type 12" then move onto bigger if available
Fallguy you have also said to avoid plastic trowels too. I have seen a few in Home Depot that look like hand broom but a thin metal or plastic blade and I have also seen the trowels that have the handle on top of a flat blade. One or the other or both kind?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:58 am
by topwater
Flat blade with handle is what i use.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:03 am
by fallguy1000
You can get these all the way to 20", but that will be really hard to keep flat. At 20", you sort of need a two handled trowel. But these work well in a progression to like 12". After that, or depending on the width, I use the 21-22" flexi.


https://www.amazon.com/MARSHALLTOWN-Pre ... ay&sr=8-12

This one is about 120 bux, but I like it. I also have the 39" for my work.

http://www.flexisanderusa.com/flexisand ... board.aspx

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:13 am
by pee wee
This kind of thing also works well for spreading fairing compound:

https://www.amazon.com/Edward-Tools-Pai ... 13&sr=8-35

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:57 pm
by FluidDynamic
I already have the 22" flexisander. I really like it. I went ahead and ordered the 22" filling board. I'll just sell both when I'm done with boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:50 pm
by sharkbait2576
Setting up my jig. I have a question. The transom angle is not shown in the plans. No measurement at the top. Just the 19” at the bottom until the next station. What did you use?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:16 pm
by TomW1
sharkbait2576 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:50 pm Setting up my jig. I have a question. The transom angle is not shown in the plans. No measurement at the top. Just the 19” at the bottom until the next station. What did you use?
The angle is taken from the end of the stringers. It is usually not given, just measure it after you cut out the stringers. There is no frame at the transom on the jig. You will attach the sides and bottom to it as you build the boat with temporary attachments to the stringers so you can take the stringers and frames out to fiberglass the inside..

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:31 pm
by FluidDynamic
The transom angle also comes from the part on the plans labeled MW side. You don't need the angle since all of the dimensions were given. Just cut out those two parts and you will see the angle. As long as you line the side up without the angle, with a vertical level, the angle will be where it needs to be.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:35 pm
by fallguy1000
Typical angle is 12-14 degrees to the waterline.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:50 pm
by sharkbait2576
Thanks again!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:52 pm
by sharkbait2576
Wondering if I got all the plans I was supposed to. I have file pg20 US complete and pg20 US LS.??

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's in pg20 ls. It's labeled MW side. These are the two peices I'm talking about. If you cut them and line them up as shown in pic, it provides the correct angle.it should look like the drawing I attached.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:02 pm
by sharkbait2576
Thanks

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:04 pm
by sharkbait2576
I see it. Thanks again

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm still learning as well. We will get through the builds together. If I were you, I would start a build thread and document along the way. The thread has provided me a wealth of information.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:46 am
by OrangeQuest
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 pm I'm still learning as well. We will get through the builds together. If I were you, I would start a build thread and document along the way. The thread has provided me a wealth of information.
I like reading everyone's thread on their builds to help me learn as they go so when I get to that part in my build I have a better idea as to what is going on. Everyone has their way of doing things and it is great to have all those options! Like you said FluidDynamic, we get through the builds together.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
Are there anymore pics of this Panga 20 in the forum? I've looked and can't find any?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:24 am
by OneWayTraffic
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:31 pm The transom angle also comes from the part on the plans labeled MW side. You don't need the angle since all of the dimensions were given. Just cut out those two parts and you will see the angle. As long as you line the side up without the angle, with a vertical level, the angle will be where it needs to be.
If anyone is the kind that likes to know the angle but your trig is dodgy it's arctan(horizontal/vertical). The plan drawings are also to scale. You can get a fairly accurate idea of angles from the drawings, but not enough to cut parts. No need anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:59 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, I don't think there are additional photos of that boat, at least nothing I could find!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:38 am
by jacquesmm
The transom is always given on my designs but not as an angle. I show it with the dimensions for the motorwell sides or stringer ends. Usually, it is the motorwell sides that set the angle. This is much more accurate than to give an angle.
Almost all my transom are at 13 degrees but use the dimensions, please. You must anyway cut that motorwell side. Do it and you will have the angle.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
Do you know what the builders name was or was there ever a build thread? I swear I saw some other photos of the boat, but I can't find them now either. It looks like his center console is pushed further back than the plans show. I would also like this as well. Just trying to plan ahead.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:38 pm
by Jeff
I don't, that was a old build and I just can't find anything else!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:26 pm
by cape man
Here you go. It was built in Germany.


https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... te#p286178

He hasn't posted anything for 7 years...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:54 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:10 pm
by fallguy1000
The other important thing about the angle is it is measured to design waterline; not hull bottom.

But Mertens makes it easy and 13 is a good figure with a scosh of tuck against say Yamaha's standard of 12.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:57 pm
by FluidDynamic
How do I prevent these waves when I'm pulling the filling board? Seams like I just keep creating more work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:16 pm
by fallguy1000
Gotta change the pull directions each time. You will habe three directions basically or four. 45s and the way you are going and 90s...more or less. And may not be perfectly 45s; let the board find the hull a bit

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:19 pm
by fallguy1000
I also like using guide powder because you can quickly see high spots and avoid dipping into the lows

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
Can quickfair be thinned a little? Seams like it's getting a little thick after a few minutes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:06 pm
by Fuzz
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:39 pm Can quickfair be thinned a little? Seams like it's getting a little thick after a few minutes.
I do not think you can thin it. I have never heard of anyone doing it. Maybe try smaller batches and get it spread out quicker.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:08 pm
by fallguy1000
You need to wash the surfaces to avoid getting dusts into the compound or it will thicken quickly.

Also, I never do more than 3 oz at a time.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
I was mixing 10 ounces. I see now it was too much to spread. I'll mix a smaller batch.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:42 pm
by FluidDynamic
More sanding. After I finish other side, I think I'll be done with the bottom. The side of the bottom I sanded is smooth and I can see an x pattern of sanding marks everywhere. No low spots left. The sides look really good. I think they were last sanded with 40 grit. Should I smear a coat of quickfair on the sides and sand or should I sand with a higher grit then go to primer on everything?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:02 pm
by OrangeQuest
I can see a reflection on the hull! That sanding is really good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:37 pm
by fallguy1000
40 grit way too low for primer

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
I spent a lot of time fairing. More than I thought it would. I have fair hull, but need to out on my skeg and spray rails. I have cut the pieces for both and was thinking about vacuum bagging them on. Few questions. If I vacuum bag, will it be a lot easier to fair them to the hull? Also, if I use vacuum bagging, can I leave the sharp edges on the skeg or should round them a little?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:32 am
by Dougster
I've never done any vacuum bagging, but it sounds like a lot of trouble for just the skeg and rub rail. The skeg is easy, just dry fit it, mark it, butter it with glue, and hold it on with straps around the hull. A trangle square or two butted against it will keep it square. Or drill pilot holes after you mark it and run temporary screws up through the holes to hold it on. Dunno about your rail. I used three layers of off cuts from left over ply for all mine and then used temporary screws or permanent dowels to hole each layer on.

BTW, like others have said, that hull sure does look good!

Dougster

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:25 am
by jacquesmm
Yes, keep it simple. No need for vacuum bagging. use a strap or two to keep the strakes down while the glue sets. For the skeg, it should stay in place by itself, look at the pictures in the Stitch and Glue 101 tutorial. There is no need for pressure with epoxy.

Now, if you want to experiment with vacuum bagging, do it. This is a simple application, an opportunity to learn a new technique. Not necessary but why not?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:07 pm
by FluidDynamic
I like learning new techniques. May use it to build a cooler/storage for the deck of the boat. I already have a pump, so I would just need a few other things. A friend of mine has the bagging and I already have peelply. I would just like to try it. To learn. As far as the sharp edges goes, can I leave them or should I round them a little before vacuum bagging?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:51 pm
by jacquesmm
Round them or cover the edges with duct tape.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:05 pm
by fallguy1000
You need peelply and release fabric and breather fabric and bag and some way to seal. If you skip the release fabric; you will epoxy the breather to the hull.

If you avoid the breather; you might still be able to pull vac, but it would trap air on the non-vac side of the job quickly and finish wrong.

Avoid putting the vac onto the glassed area or it will imprint.

Basically, the breather must go beyond the fiberglass.

You would still also do the same prep as hand laid.

Release film is reusable.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
When using peel ply, can I prime right over the cured surface or is it too rough? Also, if I use release film instead of peel ply, will that surface be too smooth to prime?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:45 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:41 pm When using peel ply, can I prime right over the cured surface or is it too rough? Also, if I use release film instead of peel ply, will that surface be too smooth to prime?
Pp is too rough and release film will be too glassy, but peelply is a ready surface for fairing and sanding

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm
by FluidDynamic
I would like to put the helm/coffin cooler/storage a little further back from what the plans call for. I was thinking if building a platform that I could use as storage under a leaning post. See pic fir details. Is this doable with the center of gravity on this boat? Also, is this enough room to walk around the sides? How much width is acceptable? I can provide more measurements as well if needed?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:33 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm I would like to put the helm/coffin cooler/storage a little further back from what the plans call for. I was thinking if building a platform that I could use as storage under a leaning post. See pic fir details. Is this doable with the center of gravity on this boat?
A Merten's question.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:38 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm I would like to put the helm/coffin cooler/storage a little further back from what the plans call for. I was thinking if building a platform that I could use as storage under a leaning post. See pic fir details. Is this doable with the center of gravity on this boat? Also, is this enough room to walk around the sides? How much width is acceptable? I can provide more measurements as well if needed?
You need to be very careful moving weights in the Panga20, it is a narrow, long boat. The COG is about 42% of the waterline from the transom. Jacques depending on the boat sets the COG between 40 - 44%. The narrower the boat the more critical the number is.

The thing you really need to do is figure out how much weight you are going to be moving around. Best way is to set up a spread sheet. This has been described in previous posts. As an example if you have 2 men onboard and they weigh an average of 200lbs and you move them back 2' then you are moving 200*2*2 or 800lbs effectively towards the transom. Do this for all your heavy weights, moving things forward negative. This the old fashioned way designers used to have to do it.

If you have questions, ask.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:33 am
by FluidDynamic
How much weight towards the transom beyond the center of gravity is acceptable? Isn't already weight positive towards the transom because of the motor? I guess the fuel tank under the deck in the front negates some of the weight on the transom.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:00 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 8:33 am How much weight towards the transom beyond the center of gravity is acceptable? Isn't already weight positive towards the transom because of the motor? I guess the fuel tank under the deck in the front negates some of the weight on the transom.
I think what Tom is saying is essentially zero for static loads and I agree. Your statement above shows you are confused about center of gravity. The center of gravity already accounts for certain things and the designer knows these. You cannot move the motor, of course.. [sorry, I did not understand you were just uncertain about assumptions]

That is, static loads in the Panga must be offset across the center of gravity.

So, if you have a console that ways 100 pounds; and you move it back one foot, you have a 100 footpound moment that you must offset on the other side of the center of gravity. So, then a 30 pound battery must move 3.3 feet forward, for example.

I don't know how Mertens designed all these weights and if people moving aft are a factor, but I assume so. Mertens would know the center of gravity and the assumptions in it.

The easiest way to offset hull weights going aft is by moving the fuel tank forward. Anchor, etc.

Involving the designer is a good idea, but basically think of all the weights in lever terms.

If you move the console two feet back and the passengers two feet back, and figure them at 450; you have a 900 ft pound moment to offset. (No small task). The reason to include the designer is of you move a large fuel tank; he may tell you to add a layer of glass to the hull, etc. (example)

Another way to help make these changes possible is by building the console lighter. This is attainable with foam and vacuum, or you can use a lighter plywood, etc.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 am
by FluidDynamic
I understand the concepts of engineer statics. I'm a civil engineer. I just didn't know if the motor and tank we're already factored in. I guess I need to know if the COG did factor in the tank all the way forward under the step platform. If it was not, then I could use that to offset some if the weight towards the back.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:48 am
by pee wee
One of the difficulties with calculating for things like fuel tanks and bait or live wells is that they sometimes are full and sometimes not. If things are set up with an assumption of weight and it changes, so will the trim. I've read that Jacques likes to put the fuel tank under the console because it is a variable weight, unlike a battery or the console itself.

Another detail is that there are some weights that are movable, so you can do some adjusting for the occasion; many boats have a portable cooler and those could be placed forward or a passenger can move forward to help balance things. The idea is to get the fixed weights as close to balanced as you can, and be prepared to adjust as needed for the occasion.

I don't have the plans for the PG20, but there should be some mention in the notes about fuel tank and location.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:55 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 am I understand the concepts of engineer statics. I'm a civil engineer. I just didn't know if the motor and tank we're already factored in. I guess I need to know if the COG did factor in the tank all the way forward under the step platform. If it was not, then I could use that to offset some if the weight towards the back.
Sorry if I had a tone. Mertens is the man on layout changes. The boat has a c of g and various assumptions.

What is the fuel tank size? I have a good quality aluminum from a Bayliner 22 on a shelf.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:12 am
by jacquesmm
Weights in my LCG calculations are always based on a running boat: with engine, fuel, gear, expected crew etc. It would not make sense otherwise.

This is a long thread, I will read it later today and try to understand what is a concern but unless somebody makes major changes, I see no problem.

To redo my old calculations represents a lot of work. I use Orca Marine. In that software, the weight and centroids of every part is calculated and a resulting LCG is produced.
For the PG20, all that was done in an old version of Rhino and old versions of Orca. I discovered a few months ago that after I upgraded, it could not read the Orca database anymore. Which means that I have to recreate a complete set of material weights and assign all those new values. The first step is something I have to do anyway but represents about 3 days of work. The second step at least one day.
That is a lot of work and I am not ready to stop what I am doing unless it is very important.

It is quite easy to calculate changes your self if I give you the moment to trim 1" and the LCB. I should have that somewhere.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:41 am
by jacquesmm
I understand the question now. No need to calculate trim changes, just use the method described by TomW and try to keep your new LCG close to what it was. On that plan (as on most others), the LCG is just behind the console, under the feet of the tillerman.

The good news is that your coffin box is close to the existing LCG. I also see a larger seat that is not on the plans and that one is behind the LCG.
The resulting LCG looks close to what I designed.
That thing looks heavy BTW and the PG20 is a small boat for it's length.
Is the baitwell in there? Try to keep variable weights like fuel tank and baitwell as close as possible to the LCG.

Since you are an engineer, you can duplicate what I do in Orca:
- set a unit weight per material area (epoxy-ply), linear for tabbing, point for objects (steering, crew, fuel tank).
- calculate areas and length, apply weights, get moments for each and a total moment and weight
- do the same for the original parts and compare
The difference will tell you what to do: probably disregard the small difference.
Or take a short cut and trust me, it like it will be close.
-

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:04 am
by cape man
To answer another question you raise about clearance, the 5 gallon bucket is a great way to do it easily. If a 5 gallon bucket will fit on the deck between the console, leaning post, casting deck, etc. you can walk through that area as well (without the bucket there 8) )

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:58 am
by FluidDynamic
Fallguy, I think tones get lost in text sometimes. I didn't think anything of it. I think the tone got lost in my text as well. No big deal. You have been a major help with this project. Thank you.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:27 pm
by FluidDynamic
The baitwell was on front of coffin. I could switch the baitwell to be behind console if needed. I guess I need to sit down to figure out the weights of everything and calculate all the moments. The leaning post in the back can also be made smaller. Could also remove platform that leaning post was sitting on.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:01 pm
by TomW1
FD I have been away all day and Jacques is correct do the calculations as you want the boat. I think you will find with the water in the livewell forward that you will be pretty close depending on how many gallons your right. He and I have talked on this subject and both of us have taken courses from Westlawn me back in the 70's when I was bored sh**less while an officer in the Navy, he also after moving to the States, neither of us completed the full course load. :) But we can generally understand each other as we both got through power boat design.

HP for the PG20 is rated for 50-70, by Jacques and there are several companies that have motors in that range that weigh very close to within 10lbs of each other. Once you get to the 75-90 range you are adding 125-150lbs to the weight on the transom. Set the Longitudinal Center of Gravity as your fulcrum. Then move things fore and aft of it.. Remember it is at the waterline while you will be moving things at the deck level in most cases.

Well get out your old fashioned spread sheets :lol: and like Jacques and I previously said lay it out how you want. Once the deck is built how you do it as long as the LCOG is balanced the design is yours. :D :D 8) Remember we both said it is a long narrow boat when you make changes so keep them on the center line.

Tom

PS: Don't move the livewell back as it will just add more weight aft which you don't need. Do your calc's.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:26 am
by TomTom
FD - your build looks great - I think you are going to have a beautiful boat, beautiful boat.

At the risk of sounding presumptuous, but also as someone who has spent a lot of time putting way too much stuff into small boats, and learning that hard way that most often less is more... could I suggest that perhaps you consider a removable live well, and removable storage.

I have found that with small boats you have to think about what you will be doing on it for that particular day and pack accordingly. We all tend to start to imagine ourselves as the proud new owner of a 36 foot Sportfisherman and then imagine leaving that much stuff on board ... rod lockers, bait prep stations, fighting chairs get built with great enthusiasm - only for us to realize our boat is way heavier than designed.

The reality is that one day a small boat will be used for a day with mates and beers, another will be live bait fishing, another will be towing kids on a tube, or taking the relatives for a cruise.

You can never keep all that stuff, for all the different things you use your boat for on a small boat, so you end up taking it on and off the boat daily at the ramp. How do you get your stuff to the ramp ... probably in a storage box or cooler or something like that anyways. It then makes no real sense to unload this and put it into another storage locker.

Same goes for a live well... what about a live well that you put on the boat on the days you will use it. Have your plumbing in place and plug and play.

All of this means that you can adjust your weight and balance to suit the boat, the no of people on board etc.

Look around the forum and you will find post after post from people who say the boat sits deeper than planned, water comes in through the scuppers, its not as fast as it should be etc...

It isn't because Jacques got his maths wrong - its all because we love to overload our small boats. We've been brainwashed by the fact magazines and boat reviews to think that a 20 foot boat should have a fly-bridge!!

I think you are slightly in danger of doing this, and in so doing taking away all the advantages of having a small, light, fuel efficient Panga!

At the very least, I would suggest you build your boat to near completion and then launch it with the engine mounted, fuel tanks full etc. Have the console built or a mock up of it - but don't fix it anywhere - or bolt it temporarily where you want it.

Then move your other weights around and see how she sits in the water, how you feel about the spacing etc. Its much easier to take a little time and do this before your finish her beautifully inside and then realize its not how you want it.

Please don't take this as me being a harsh critic - it isn't - its 19 years of being on the bateau forum and 2 boats and one rebuild later suggesting how I would do it in your shoes. Best wishes Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:00 am
by FluidDynamic
I don't take it as harsh at all. I usually dream big about something and bring it back to reality. I just quickly drew that concept up and really hadn't thought it through. To be honest with you, I'm probably going to just put a simple console and a simple leaning post on it and let it fly. I do realize that this is a small 20' boat. That was the intention. Just got a little out of control on things I wanted in the boat. I do think I'll end up just having a portable cooler that I can take out. May still put a livewell in, but it would be smaller.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:17 am
by TomTom
I think u are making the right choice... you can always make a livewell that fits in place nicely later on ... or you can have one that is removable with straps or similar. But get to know your boat as it should be first. Many production boats use a cooler strapped in as a seat rather than a built in one. We fish a lot on Yamaha 23 foot Pangas ... there isn’t a lot of room and I have come to appreciate fwd planning for the day ahead over any amount of storage space in the boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:01 am
by jacquesmm
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 12:00 am I. . . To be honest with you, I'm probably going to just put a simple console and a simple leaning post on it and let it fly. I do realize that this is a small 20' boat.
Wise decision.
The Pangas are small for their length, they have a small waterplane but they are very seaworthy.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:50 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finally got the skeg and the spray rails on. Next step is to fiberglass them on. Hopefully they won't be hard to to fair them in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am
by Jeff
Nice work FluidDynamic!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:26 pm
by GuyP
Looks like pine for spray rails. Are they one piece? How are they attached? Please excuse all the questions. I’ll be attaching rails to a FS 19 build in a couple weeks and also covering them with fiberglass.

Thanks

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:37 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes it SYP. It's two pieces. There screwed in at the moment. I'm about to filet the joints, take screws out, fill holes, and fiberglass over them. SYP would be too soft to just epoxy over.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:29 pm
by GuyP
Thanks. I’ll do the same for mine.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
I put the filets on the spray rails today. I used a plastic cup to spread the filet on the top of the rail. On the bottom, I just used a popcycle stick.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:11 am
by fallguy1000
Fillets look great.

I am sort of partial to a vee shaped rail. I sure hope these work well for you.

I am also used to them being partway up the hull sides.

Are they spec'd lower?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:38 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks, I placed spray rails along the chine as the plan indicated. I'm not sure the reasoning behind it. I thought ight about putting one higher towards the back as well.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:46 pm
by fallguy1000
Things look good. Spray rails can be added as needed later. Or you might see if anyone else had to...9

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 pm
by Fuzz
Check out this http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... play_media
It looks like things work pretty darn well without them being higher up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:07 pm
by FluidDynamic
I blended my skeg in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:09 pm
by OrangeQuest
I like the way that looks! Very good job!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's hard to tell in the pic, but it is a really smooth transition. Pic makes it look crooked.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm planning on vacuum bagging the fiberglass on over the rail and I have a few questions on the setup. I'm going to use perforated release film, breather fabric, and then the bagging film. Do I make the width of the release film wider than the fiberglass? Does the breather fabric need to be the same width? I'm a little confused on I set those items up. Also, is the tubing supposed to be throw away. I would imagine the tubing will be messed up when the epoxy cured in it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:17 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 pm I'm planning on vacuum bagging the fiberglass on over the rail and I have a few questions on the setup. I'm going to use perforated release film, breather fabric, and then the bagging film. Do I make the width of the release film wider than the fiberglass? Does the breather fabric need to be the same width? I'm a little confused on I set those items up. Also, is the tubing supposed to be throw away. I would imagine the tubing will be messed up when the epoxy cured in it.
1. Where do you intend to seal the pull?

2. The release film is intended to provide a release of the breather. Anything the breather touches that gets epoxy on the breather will stick. So, the release is required to be in excess of the areas wetted. A bunch is best. Think like a 6" overlap all the way around, plus the feed line needs film under it or it will stick. But just under the feed end, not under the sealant tape. Release film there would cause a leak.

3. The tubing gets reused. When you apply vacuum, you generally have a resin trap. However, for your small job, it is unneeded. I have never gotten any resin into my traps. If I did, my resin losses to the bag would be like 50% and Jeff could retire on my purchases of epoxy. What you do is this. Run the vacuum line off the rail about 6-12" and install a bunch of breather media between the rail and the inlet, like folded over itself and made 4 layers thick. This area will need release film under it or you will stick the media to the hull. And the release film goes just under the inlet, but not at the bag seal. If you use a vac inlet on top the bag, disregard the concerns about the release film under the hose. When you pull vac on your job, you need to see release film all the way around. The reason release films are highly colored is to make sure you see release film when you bag the job instead of breather. Release film showing all around is good. Release film hidden by breather is bad. Anyhow, any excess resin will fill that portion of the breather media going to the line.

4. It is kind of hard to do this job with vac and I sort of advise against it. I saw your work and it is exceptional and glassing it will be easy with a lighter glass like 6 ounce woven. Vac is really unnecessary and the gains from it are very incremental if any at all other than experience. If you want to do some vac work, it is much easier to do on a table for a noob.

5. When you do this work on a side piece, the parts(release film, breather media) are going to want to fall off. When they fall off, they will disturb your work. Think pull the glass off or over, etc. In order to avoid that happenstance, what you do is tape the release film to the hull bottom in just the right spot. And same with the breather media. So those things will be ready to just lay over the top and the tape on the hull will hole them. Use something like a 2" wide 7 day release tape. The vac will pull it down, but it will come up if you don't epoxy it down. When they are taped, you just roll them back over the vac bag you prepped on the hull. After glassing, you'll roll the release film over the work, then roll the breather, then roll the bag. The bag would have been stuck on the long edge. Then you seal the bag on the sides and the hull side further down.

6. Closing the bag requires pleating. Make sure and watch a video of how to do it or ask me how I do it.

7. Closing the bag will require gum tape. You can use butyl tape.

8. This is important. You will need some slack in the bag or the vac won't pull down on the edges of the rail right where you want it. This means the bag needs to be a little loose. When you turn on the vac, you will want to help the bag lay down into those areas a bit. Don't over think it, but you need to avoid bridging or you'll have a big bunch of epoxy over your beautifully coved fillets. And this is why I advise against it. That said, I vacuum bagged over the keels on a Boston Whaler and this is similar, just that the keels are easier because they are on the boat bottom upside down.

9. I hate to tell you this, but this job needs peelply more than vac or in addition to vac. The peelply will keep the resin from running down the hull sides. Any resin on the hullsides that even as much as touches the vacuum bag will destroy the vac. Epoxy is the biggest problem in sealing a bag. If I was going to glass those rails, all I would do is cut the glass and cut a piece of peelply about 4"-6" wider then the glass. Once the glass was on and wetted, I'd hit it with the peelply or even have a 2nd person follow with the peelply. Drips are a worse enemy than a small air bubble in this lamination.

Kind regards.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:19 pm
by fallguy1000
by the way, if you try to peelply the job and vac, the peelply goes on after the glass, then the release film goes over the peelply, but you'd have the same problems with the release and breather falling off the boat, so you'd still do everything else the same, the peelply is the only way I would vac it because you won't need much sanding with it on there

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:12 am
by FluidDynamic
Thanks for the very good explanation. The reason I wanted to do the vacuum bagging was I had trouble getting the 6 oz woven to lay down over the rails. I even used peel ply and it still would lay down without having a lot of air bubbles. I ended up removing the glass when it was still wet and just used peel ply over the epoxy to smooth it out. Could it have been the fact I was trying to do this over the raw wood?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:38 pm
by fallguy1000
Most likely you were laminating wrong.

Yes, it can be done wrong.

You can only roll the laminating roller into the cove fillets.

You don't go in and out or out. Only roll into the fillets.

When you roll outwards, it will pull the glass away from the fillets. In only.

Another thing to recognize is glassing over the fillets jist set is easier. This means fillet, then glass immediately. The curing fillet coating puts a great hold on the glass. It can be trouble if too sticky, so plan how you will lay the woven to avoid cursing me!

You can also hotcoat over the finished fillets. This would be a batch of thickened epoxy you trowel over the rail all the way. You'd use a wide trowel to speed it up. Actually, I would coat it with a 4" trowel first and fast and then clean it up with a 9-12" trowel. Then you lay the woven into that and it holds it super well.

As for raw wood; you need to prewet it. Either the hotcoating or a wetout and let it suck resin for a bit.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. I wasn't using a roller. I was only using a chip brush. I'll try the roller. . Ill try pre wetting it and let it sit. Last time, I pre wet it and immediatly put the glass over it. I think the pine soaks up the epoxy and starved the glass.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:15 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:29 pm Thanks. I wasn't using a roller. I was only using a chip brush. I'll try the roller. . Ill try pre wetting it and let it sit. Last time, I pre wet it and immediatly put the glass over it. I think the pine soaks up the epoxy and starved the glass.
Just prewet the pine and let it go to kick time and then rewet it so the glass does not stick.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
Going fishing. This is the only time these chairs are ever used.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:11 pm
by Jeff
Nice, good luck!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:54 pm
by FluidDynamic
I listened once again and decided not to vacuum bag the skeg and rails on. I did what Fallguy said about wetting the wood and letting it kick before wetting again and placing the fiberglass over it. I got a metal roller and rolled towards the filet. It turned out great. No air bubbles.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:04 pm
by fallguy1000
Looks great.

Glad it worked out well for you.

Vac bagging has a place in boat building, but not there.

Today, I built one part in the bag and another was hand laminated out of the bag.

I am sure you will doubt me saying it, but your product turned out better with the method used than it would with vac. The vac is really hard to do and avoid bridging. A bridge is a place where the bag doesn't touch the part. Resin collects there and you have lamination defects of humps to sand. Those humps are hard to sand and then you sand through the glass. Ask me how I know!

The only way it could have been better was with peelply,
but for a noobie; peelply has a downside. It is easy to end up with an air pocket here n there, or the peelply pulls the glass away if it doesn't lay properly. Ask me how I know!

Now, do be careful and avoid sanding that with a power sander. Very easy to sand through. Ask me how I know!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
by FluidDynamic
I actually did try peel ply over it. I couldn't get it to lay down without a ton of air bubbles. I pulled it off and rolled it in a few spots to push the cloth back down. I've used peel ply successfully on flat surfaces, but tight curved surfaces have been a challenge.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am I actually did try peel ply over it. I couldn't get it to lay down without a ton of air bubbles. I pulled it off and rolled it in a few spots to push the cloth back down. I've used peel ply successfully on flat surfaces, but tight curved surfaces have been a challenge.
You basically need the peelply the exact dimensional width and you have to wet the peelply like glass.

It looks great and I might have abandoned the peelply as well.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finally got my Keel glassed and faired. I also glassed one spray rail. Hopefully I won't wake up in the morning with air bubbles. How do I prevent puddling between the rail and bottom of hull?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
It turned out really good. Only 1 small air bubble. There is done puddling, but I guess it's just a little more sanding.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:36 am
by Jeff
Really nice work FluidDynamic!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:34 am
by fallguy1000
To prevent puddles; use peelply or masking tapes and swipe with acetone as needed (only not fresh areas).

Puddling is generally caused by using too much epoxy. Of course this happens in building. One of my decks were more like lakes than puddles because I ran short on time for any lifting off.

Over not raw wood; you can use a squeegee and lift excess off into a cup before gel time.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:41 am
by fallguy1000
by the way your work looks great

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
Fairing the skeg and spray rails have taken just as long as building the hull. This is tough work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:07 pm
by Fuzz
It is purely amazing how some of the "little" things can eat up time.
Keep taking bites of the elephant, you will get it eaten :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:11 pm
by Bogieman
Yes, what Fuzz said. The rub rails on my AD16 took a lot of fairing material, sanding and time...something I thought would've been a much easier process. Your boat is looking really good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:38 am
by Jeff
And your weather in Alabama has been hot!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's hard to work in a garage that's 110+. I'm a little concerned about painting in high temps and high humidity. How does this affect the paint laying down?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:57 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:49 pm It's hard to work in a garage that's 110+. I'm a little concerned about painting in high temps and high humidity. How does this affect the paint laying down?
Spray or roll?

I think you are going to have trouble.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:58 am
by OrangeQuest
Can you paint in the morning, before sunrise? Our warehouse starts to heat up around 10 in the morning and will reach 3 digits before noon if all the doors are closed. You will need to have a hydrometer set up inside your work space to make sure the humidity is low enough per the specs from the manufacturer of your paint.

Love the race of mixing 2 part foam in those conditions! It starts to react as soon as you start to pour the two parts together!!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:31 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm planning on rolling. I havnt made up my mind on EMC or Alexseal. I guess I could wait until it cools down a little. As far as humidy goes, its usually pretty high in the summer. Take a shower, get dressed, walk outside and within a minute your clothes are wet.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:11 pm
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, We have not sold Alexseal Paints in the past but I just had a recent request regarding this brand and I have a supplier where I can get it easily here in Florida. But boy, is that stuff expensive!! Makes EMC & AwlGrip look cheap!! Just let me know when you want something priced!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm
by FluidDynamic
Great. Alexseal isn't readily available as EMC. I know someone who rolled and tipped their boat with Alexseal and I couldn't tell that it wasn't sprayed.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:45 am
by Jeff
OK, just let me know and I will get you a quote on Alexseal paint!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:35 am
by piperdown
Jeff wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:11 pm FluidDynamic, We have not sold Alexseal Paints in the past but I just had a recent request regarding this brand and I have a supplier where I can get it easily here in Florida. But boy, is that stuff expensive!! Makes EMC & AwlGrip look cheap!! Just let me know when you want something priced!! Jeff
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm Great. Alexseal isn't readily available as EMC. I know someone who rolled and tipped their boat with Alexseal and I couldn't tell that it wasn't sprayed.
Jeff wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:45 am OK, just let me know and I will get you a quote on Alexseal paint!!! Jeff

That "recent request" was from me lol :D

It is expensive but I am still leaning toward using alexseal myself. I've been reading good things about their paint but what really is pushing my decision is from this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtD0wvNAjD0

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:32 am
by Dougster
Nice video. It kind of reminded me of when I used EMC. I ended up not tipping at all, but then I am no painter and not too critical. EMC says it is also able to be buffed and touched up, but I haven't tried that yet. This stuff is all pricey but a miracle for those of us with no painting experience.

Dougster

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:33 pm
by FluidDynamic
The same guy did an EMC video and it looked like it didn't flatten out like the Alexseal. How did your EMC turn out? That guy is also painting in a controlled environment.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:43 pm
by FluidDynamic
I am having a dilemma. I'm wondering if I should fiberglass my rubrails now and paint or should I wait to put the gunnel cap on over the rubrails and then have one continuous layer of fiberglass. The fiberglass would go over the cap and then go down over the rubrails. I'm afraid of the connection between the cap and the rubrails cracking and separating down the line. The filet in the pic already has a layer of glass over it. Right now, the rubrails has a coat of epoxy on it except the groove. The epoxy was applied with peelply. I just need some help deciding the sequence of construction. I have some fairing still left on that fillet.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:47 pm
by fallguy1000
Glass now.

Paint.

Flip.

Gunnels.

Glass to glass edge.

Caulk intersection.

You might need to use spray adhesive to keep the glass in the right spot at the end.

What about epifanes 2 part?

Really looked great in my samples.

I'm gonna use it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:16 am
by FluidDynamic
I used epifanes clear varnish before on a paddle board. It turned out great. Never thought about the paint. I'll check it out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:48 am
by OrangeQuest
I don't understand why you would not have a continuous piece of glass from the rub rail to the gunnel cap? If the gunnel cap over laps the top of the rub rail then lapping the glass past the edge of the cap will help seal the edge of the plywood or am I not understanding correctly?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:30 am
by fallguy1000
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:48 am I don't understand why you would not have a continuous piece of glass from the rub rail to the gunnel cap? If the gunnel cap over laps the top of the rub rail then lapping the glass past the edge of the cap will help seal the edge of the plywood or am I not understanding correctly?
I think he wants to glass over the gunnel and down onto the hull, but after paint it is tricky to wrap it all the way around the rubrail.

Here is a sketch of how I'd try with some assumptions about the gunnel/rubrail shape.

Black is now.

Blue is later. Requires masking boat...big deal.
A56BC1E0-77BC-4181-ACB5-894D080E4D36.png

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:35 am
by OrangeQuest
Thanks Fallguy, but why paint first? Doesn't it need to be painted AFTER the glass is put on?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:10 am
by fallguy1000
He can paint the boat while upside down, flip it over once, mask and glass to the union. Paint the top, then seal the glass union with 4200.

Might need to hold the final glass with spray adhesive..

The idea the entire boat needs full encapsulation in glass is giving him angst.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:27 am
by FluidDynamic
This is what I was thinking about. Let me know if this is feasible. I would paint to the radius where I've already glassed. Wait until I flip it and place glass over coaming, gunnel cap, and then down the rub rail to the radius.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:54 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:27 am This is what I was thinking about. Let me know if this is feasible. I would paint to the radius where I've already glassed. Wait until I flip it and place glass over coaming, gunnel cap, and then down the rub rail to the radius.
Yup, but you don't paint where you plan to glass is all.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finally done fairing skeg and rails. I have to do a little more fairing on the transom then I will go over the entire hull to see if I've got any small holes or imperfections before priming.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:59 am
by Salty F17
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:01 pm Finally done fairing skeg and rails. I have to do a little more fairing on the transom then I will go over the entire hull to see if I've got any small holes or imperfections before priming.
Looks good dont spaz to much on the pin holes the primer will reveal them easy you will be able to fix the with a lite fairing mix

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
Took a little time off for fishing. Back at it. Everything is ready to prime. Hopefully prime this weekend.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, thank you for the update!!! Looking really good now!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:21 pm
by Fuzz
Love the look of the Pangas. This going to be a nice boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:58 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. First coat of primer on. Can still see through the first coat. Two more to go before I sand. It's pretty smooth. See alot of pinholes. Will 2 more coats fill some of them?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:53 pm
by Cbuf
I finished my second coat last night. The some pin holes remain. So I stopped at my second coat to fill, fix, and re fair issues. I plan on another 2 coats on the sides, and go straight to epoxy on the bottom. Im not sure if this helps you, but best I can offer.

Thanks

Cbuf

Below are examples of pin holes left after two heavy coats, now filled.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
2nd coat of primer on.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:32 pm
by GuyP
Looks great after 2 coats. It’s amazing how they transform with a little primer. I’ll be putting coat 2 on mine tomorrow after filling pinholes this afternoon. I hope yours feels as silky smooth as mine after a light orbital sanding with 220 grit. Flipping time coming up fast :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:33 am
by Fuzz
Dang that looks nice :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 am
by OrangeQuest
Yeah it does! Very Nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:04 am
by fallguy1000
lookin good, thanks for the boat pic

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:27 am
by Bogieman
8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have alot of pinholes. I thought three coats of primer would cover some, but it's so thin. What's the best method to fill the pin holes. Should I sand first then fill them or should I go ahead and fill them before I sand?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:28 pm
by fallguy1000
I'd try neat coating them. Does a single net coat fill them?

Quikfair does not pinhole like a homemade mix either, so I would final pass the entire hull with it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:29 pm
by fallguy1000
I'd try neat coating them. Does a single net coat fill them?

Quikfair does not pinhole like a homemade mix either, so I would final pass the entire hull with it.

After seeing the picture; you need to quikfair that...

Mike B or Daytrip roll on sprayfair. Not sure if that would fill those or not, but QF will. You just need to make sure they are not full of powder.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:19 am
by Dougster
I've had fits with pinholes, even with quickfair at times. Someone told me to use this:
http://www.sikkensnamobile.com/Products ... tegoryId=7

Sikkens Kombie Putty

It's an automotive product and has held up for several years so far with no problem (on S3 primer topped with Sterling and EMC on another build). I put a tiny bit on my finger, rub it in, wait 10 minutes, then sand it off. Works like magic for me.

Dougster

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:31 pm
by Browndog
Quickfair has worked for me to fill pinholes. Fill with Quickfair then sand with 220 grit after it cures and recoat with primer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:45 pm
by FluidDynamic
Before I fill holes, I'm marking all imperfections. What's wierd, is the front of boat has pinholes, but midship to aft, there are no pinholes. Also, no pinholes on sides.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:55 pm
by fallguy1000
I have discovered something about pinholes. Pinholes seem to like to form when you don't kite the original coating well, or it doesn't grab the surface well. Then they fill with dust or contaminants and don't like to fill again.

Clean them as well as possible and use a lot of pressure over them on a couple passes, then a lighter pass to clean off the compound and see if it helps.

I will be doing lots and lots and lots of fairing in the coming weeks, stay tuned.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
I filled all pinholes with quick fair. Should I plan on priming the whole boat again or should I spot prime and feather it in with sanding. Also, the sanded primer areas feel completely smooth, but I can see where the tops of primer was sanded and a little unsanded primer in the low spots. Do I need to sand it down where there are no unsanded areas, or will the topside paint cover those areas. Imagine the surface of a golf ball where the highs were sanded and the lows we're untouched. That's what surface is like. Of course it's microscopic compared to the dimples of a golf ball.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:57 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:26 pm I filled all pinholes with quick fair. Should I plan on priming the whole boat again or should I spot prime and feather it in with sanding. Also, the sanded primer areas feel completely smooth, but I can see where the tops of primer was sanded and a little unsanded primer in the low spots. Do I need to sand it down where there are no unsanded areas, or will the topside paint cover those areas. Imagine the surface of a golf ball where the highs were sanded and the lows we're untouched. That's what surface is like. Of course it's microscopic compared to the dimples of a golf ball.
Primer and topcoat generally enhance imperfections.

The stuff the Bertram guys are using 'sprayfair' for anove the WL is the magic I think. You can roll it over epoxy primer; torture board to perfection.

Very curious about it, bit spendy.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:20 pm
by Jwhitakeriii
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:26 pm I filled all pinholes with quick fair. Should I plan on priming the whole boat again or should I spot prime and feather it in with sanding.
I have the same question. I think I'll just spot prime the areas and feather. The build is looking great

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
Any pointers on sanding the primer? It's difficult to sand? S3 primer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:07 am
by Jaysen
My experience is 80 or 100 and go slow. Otherwise you’re going to keep applying primer.

It is easy to sand compared to wood floured epoxy. Hard to sand compared to fairing compound. Remember you’re not clearing highs and lows... that’s fairing. You’re just making to smooth and pretty for a fancy top coat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I'm going to put another coat of primer over whole boat after sanding through in alot of places. After the next coat, how can I sand and not sand through the primer. It feels very smooth, but if you shine a light, I can see a slight orange peel. Can't feel it, but can see it. If I have to sand this down, wont I keep sanding through the primer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:46 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:28 pm I think I'm going to put another coat of primer over whole boat after sanding through in alot of places. After the next coat, how can I sand and not sand through the primer. It feels very smooth, but if you shine a light, I can see a slight orange peel. Can't feel it, but can see it. If I have to sand this down, wont I keep sanding through the primer.
To avoid sand through, the best way is to step up to a higher grit, like 120. But you might not get the orange peel all the way...the only thing to do after that is to use something like sprayfair..above the waterline only I think

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:35 am
by deering
Been reading through this build process with a lot of interest. FluidD, you are doing an awesome job! Can’t wait to see the finished product.

I’m interested in building a PG20. Mine will be more of a workboat so I probably (certainly) won’t be doing the meticulous job you’re doing. I’m wondering two things that I hope you can help with:

1. The study plans list the hull weight at 1,000 lbs. That seems very high to me. Do you have a rough weight estimate on yours yet?

2. One of the main reasons the PG20 interests me is its narrow beam. I need it to fit through the transom gate of my big boat so I can drag it up on the aft deck when traveling. Allows me to avoid towing. What beam are you measuring at the widest point? How high is the gunnel above the keel at that point? I’ll probably need to reduce the maximum beam by a few more inches. I’m thinking I can do that by tilting the sides up a little more vertically in that section. No doubt that’ll have some impacts on panel sizing, but not so much that I can’t adjust - thoughts?

Thanks for posting your progress. Looking forward to seeing her floating.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:16 am
by cvincent
I used 120 grit but did not sand to aggressively followed by 220 grit. I sprayed one full coat of EMC and completely sanded the first coat of EMC with 320 grit. The first coat of EMC makes a very smooth base. I then sprayed two coats of EMC and the finish looks like a mirror.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:39 pm
by Fuzz
deering wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:35 am Been reading through this build process with a lot of interest. FluidD, you are doing an awesome job! Can’t wait to see the finished product.

I’m interested in building a PG20. Mine will be more of a workboat so I probably (certainly) won’t be doing the meticulous job you’re doing. I’m wondering two things that I hope you can help with:

1. The study plans list the hull weight at 1,000 lbs. That seems very high to me. Do you have a rough weight estimate on yours yet?

2. One of the main reasons the PG20 interests me is its narrow beam. I need it to fit through the transom gate of my big boat so I can drag it up on the aft deck when traveling. Allows me to avoid towing. What beam are you measuring at the widest point? How high is the gunnel above the keel at that point? I’ll probably need to reduce the maximum beam by a few more inches. I’m thinking I can do that by tilting the sides up a little more vertically in that section. No doubt that’ll have some impacts on panel sizing, but not so much that I can’t adjust - thoughts?

Thanks for posting your progress. Looking forward to seeing her floating.
Man that is one big boat if you can put a panga on the back deck :!: How wide is the opening? The panga would make a great tender/fishing platform.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:12 pm
by deering
51 ft by 14 ft. The back deck is about 25 ft long and wide open. There’s a 6’ wide ‘tailgate’ that flips down on the transom with rollers that allow me to drag a skiff up on the deck. There are railings on the tailgate that reduce the clearance by a few inches, so any skiff has to be a bit shy of a 6’ BOA. The boat is aluminum. I finished the major refit this spring and it’s working out great.

I’m looking for the biggest skiff I can haul aboard when need be. I’d use it especially for crabbing and shrimping, with a hydraulic davit. The self-bailing deck is a huge plus. Generally I’d tow it, but there are times when pulling it onboard would be the best option.

If I can pull in the gunnels of the PG20 by just a couple inches it could work. Or if the gunnels are tall enough, they might pass over the top of the railings.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
deering wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:35 am Been reading through this build process with a lot of interest. FluidD, you are doing an awesome job! Can’t wait to see the finished product.

I’m interested in building a PG20. Mine will be more of a workboat so I probably (certainly) won’t be doing the meticulous job you’re doing. I’m wondering two things that I hope you can help with:

1. The study plans list the hull weight at 1,000 lbs. That seems very high to me. Do you have a rough weight estimate on yours yet?

2. One of the main reasons the PG20 interests me is its narrow beam. I need it to fit through the transom gate of my big boat so I can drag it up on the aft deck when traveling. Allows me to avoid towing. What beam are you measuring at the widest point? How high is the gunnel above the keel at that point? I’ll probably need to reduce the maximum beam by a few more inches. I’m thinking I can do that by tilting the sides up a little more vertically in that section. No doubt that’ll have some impacts on panel sizing, but not so much that I can’t adjust - thoughts?

Thanks for posting your progress. Looking forward to seeing her floating.
I think mine will be a little on the heavier side. I think I saw a post where it was stated it was 1000 pounds +or- 200 pounds. I'm shooting for around 1600 to 1900 rigged out. It's around 74" wide. I'm not sure how you would narrow boat. If you pull the gunnels in by cutting the frames a little shorter, wouldn't the sides have bows in them. Probably have to modify the side panel dimensions. Keel to gunnel is around 26" to 28" at the widest point.

Sorry for late reply. It's been too hot in garage to do anything. 100 degree days equal 120 in my garage. I'm still sanding the orange peel out of my primer. To do this, I'm having to sand through in a bunch of areas. I'm afraid the next coat of primer will do the same. Maybe when it cools down in a month, it will lay out better. I want to paint the boat, but the weather isn't suitable.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:31 pm
by deering
Thanks for the info. Just what I was looking for.

To narrow it I’m thinking that I’d bring in the top of the widest frame and then run a batten to determine how much adjustment the intermediate frames would require for fairness. From that I’ll need to modify the side panels, probably on three sides, though I don’t think by very much. The result will be side panels a bit more vertical, which might mean a bit more spray and a bit less reserve buoyancy, but really the difference shouldn’t be dramatic.

How many frames are there between the transom and the bow?

Incidentally, heat won’t be the issue here. I rarely use slow hardener...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:42 pm
by FluidDynamic
6 plus transom.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:44 pm
by FluidDynamic
Frames

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:51 am
by FluidDynamic
Hope to be back at it in a couple of weeks. The weather hasn't been conductive for painting. Its been 100 plus in the garage and 90% humidity. Weather window is right around the corner.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:54 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, good to hear from you!! Yes, the weather has been crazy hot for most of the South East!!! Look forward to seeing some photos soon!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
So, I know I've been asking the same questions, but see the photo below. I have put three coats of system three on then sanded it. I put a guide coat on and the only way to sand all of the guide coat off is to sand the primer almost off in some spots. I guess I'm having trouble with orange peel and to sand the guide coat out of the orange peel leaves little primer on the boat. I'm not sure if I need to put another three layers of primer on again and try again. It was really hot and high humidity when the primer was applied. Could that have caused the orange peel?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:12 am
by fallguy1000
I can't make out anything from the pictures.

On my build, we experienced heavy pocking when using a standard cabosil and balloon mix.

We switched to Quikfair at the end and went over the entire boat, but we use concrete trowels and worked in 3 oz batches.

We found that regular trowels were flexing and pulling too much material back off the hull. And we found that QF is indeed too fast to skim in larger quantities than 3 oz.

My hunch is that you were simply not smooth enough. If it were me, I would trowel out the boat tight with Quikfair and resand with 120. Sorry. But try a small area and see.

What was your final grit?

And you are spraying or rolling?

Did you wash the boat first? Was it dry enough?

I sort of doubt orange peel, but can't tell from pics.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:51 am
by Rtorres2411
I rolled and tip the primer on with good results and it has been hot and humid here in central Florida. I did the hull with 3 coats and before painting sanded using 120 grit. If I didn’t tip the primer It would have orange peel.

Your boat is looking great 8) .

Ruben

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:59 am
by fallguy1000
Rtorres2411 wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:51 am I rolled and tip the primer on with good results and it has been hot and humid here in central Florida. I did the hull with 3 coats and before painting sanded using 120 grit. If I didn’t tip the primer It would have orange peel.

Your boat is looking great 8) .

Ruben
What roller did you use?

Orange peel on a primer coat is generally not a big issue as it is getting removed/sanded.

But the final topcoats; big trouble.

If he is going through the primer coat to the guide coat; he is not just sanding orange peel.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:49 pm
by Rtorres2411
I used cheap foam roller, applying the primer with light pressure. Used a chip brush to tip to get the few air bubbles to pop and the primer basically self leveled. Also system three primer have to be left to sit for 20 minutes after mixing before applying.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
I rolled it with the mini EMC quantum mohair rollers that are sold here. I did not tip it. Said they were for use of primer only according to the website. Should I be using the foam rollers with he system three? I let it sit for whatever time the can recommended. I washed and cleaned with TotalBoat dewaxer and surface prep. Final grit before cleaning was 220. Its definitely orange peel. Looks like my paint on my sheetrock walls, but not as bad. The hull is fair, but there may have been some slight highs and lows that the primer has now filled. I'm thinking that another couple coats of primer will sand smooth now. Just hoping I don't get the orange peel effect again.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:05 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:40 pm I rolled it with the mini EMC quantum mohair rollers that are sold here. I did not tip it. Said they were for use of primer only according to the website. Should I be using the foam rollers with he system three? I let it sit for whatever time the can recommended. I washed and cleaned with TotalBoat dewaxer and surface prep. Final grit before cleaning was 220. Its definitely orange peel. Looks like my paint on my sheetrock walls, but not as bad. The hull is fair, but there may have been some slight highs and lows that the primer has now filled. I'm thinking that another couple coats of primer will sand smooth now. Just hoping I don't get the orange peel effect again.
Went on too thick.

Use thinner at a higher %.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:57 pm
by Rtorres2411
Try tipping it with a brush, I think you will be surprised with the results if you tip it. It will smooth out imperfections and any bubbles left behind.
I have mixed several batches of system three primer and didn’t see a need for thinning it as the 4:1 ratio it calls for the primer is thin enough.

Ruben

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm finally done sanding the primer. I'd say half the primer is gone after sanding through. Can I put on one more coat of primer and then sand before the topcoat? Or would I need to put on a couple of coats of primer and then sand? The system three primer is extremely hard to sand the orange peel out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:07 am
by fallguy1000
I am struggling with some orange peel as well. I am finding the orange peel more in areas which are low.

You really want to have primer and not fiberglass or filers before you final coat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:52 am
by Jeff
FluidDynamic, good to hear from you and I hope your weather has improved greatly!!! Yes, go ahead with another coat of primer, then sand!!! I am really looking forward to seeing another Panga completed!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm almost done sanding the system three primer. Whoever said this stuff is easily sandable is wrong. I'm using a festool 150 on the most aggressive setting and I'm still having to work it to get the orange peel out. I'm going to have to put another coat of primer on. Should I try hand sanding as soon as its sandable? Maybe this stuff is hard to sand after fully cured. In my opinion, it's harder to sand than epoxy.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:58 am
by Fuzz
Yes sir you want to get on it early. The longer you wait the harder it gets.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:04 am
by fallguy1000
So, a couple of lessons I learned.

First of all, fair and fair again. Longboard fair the most.

After fairing, apply carbon guide powder. Then fair some more after the guide powder shows problems.

Then a coat of primer or of you are really fair a couple coats or in my case 3 coats after your first few coats on a less than fair boat!

Then I let it harden. (Epifanes)..

Hard as nails. Then I too sanded with the Festool rts400 with 220 grit. A sheet of paper lasts about 15 square feet and then chuck it.

Start sanding too early and it will corn on the paper.

Most likely you are not changing papers enough.

We had better success with the rts400 than rotary sanding. If you were gonna rotary sand for a better finish; you could use the two in concert. Cut with the quarter sheet sander and smooth with a rotary.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:12 am
by fallguy1000
If you don't thin or use a hd foam roller; you will have more orange peel as well.

The op is caused by thick paint applied unevenly.

I had a lot of it.

For my final coats; I just applied 3 no sand coats, so I could sand it back noce and even. It isn't perfect, but is is flat with some sanded down orange peel dimpling here and there. Think it'll look okay. And probably look really good on a repaint on 5-10 years.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:27 am
by FluidDynamic
I put 3 coats of system three primer on before I started sanding. I think the boat was not sanded properly before the primer went on. After sanding off almost half of the primer, I think the lows/imperfections have been filled. It is super smooth now. Hopefully, I can just put one more coat of primer on and then sand to 320. Hopefully, I won't sand through. This primer ordeal has been tough. Sanding it 3 months after it was initially put on is really difficult to do. Its extremely hard even with 120 grit. I'm now sanding with 120 and then moving up to 220 in prep for hopefully the last coat of primer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:45 pm
by FluidDynamic
My sand paper is lasting 4 sq ft. I'm going through sanding discs quick. I'm using festool granat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:31 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:27 am I put 3 coats of system three primer on before I started sanding. I think the boat was not sanded properly before the primer went on. After sanding off almost half of the primer, I think the lows/imperfections have been filled. It is super smooth now. Hopefully, I can just put one more coat of primer on and then sand to 320. Hopefully, I won't sand through. This primer ordeal has been tough. Sanding it 3 months after it was initially put on is really difficult to do. Its extremely hard even with 120 grit. I'm now sanding with 120 and then moving up to 220 in prep for hopefully the last coat of primer.
Personally, I would not sand to 220 for a primer coat. I would sand to 220 for the final topcoat.

We ran 120 for the primers and had no issues with fills. Then, of course, I did put 3 layers of primer on for that final 220 sanding. I would think 150-180 would cover for another primer coat and you'd cut more imperfection with it. My sandpapers are actually going about 4 feet on 32" panels, so more like 10 sq ft with the rts400 quarter sheet sander.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:54 pm
by FluidDynamic
Struggling with finding the weather to put last coat of primer on. It was 70 degrees today and 55% humidity, but I didn't have paint rollers or supplies to finish it today. Everything's closed. Looks like another week to wait before humidity is below 90%.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:15 am
by Jeff
The weather in the Southeast has been crazy the whole month of December!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:22 pm
by FluidDynamic
I put another coat of primer on this morning. I used a foam roller and then tipped with a soft synthetic brush. This is what directions say. I'm wondering if it will help with the orange peel. Probably will have streaks now. I almost want to put 5 coats on and then sand so I dont sand through before sanding below orange peel or streaks. I guess I'll see what it looks like in a little while. It looks thin. I dont know if one coat is going to do it. I put three on originally and most of it was sanded off.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:04 pm
by fallguy1000
The three coat method worked for me, but I have climate controlled...sort of

Too dry here and if I heat my building up; I can't tack off.

Looks like you need to send me some humidity and I you some arid stuff.

I just have to tack off at 55%RH and then I can warm up my building.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:38 pm
by FluidDynamic
After the primer has been sanded, is a thin film of primer enough? When its sanded, does it need to be one solid color of primer grey? I would think as long as it has any thickness of primer, it should be okay to paint. ???

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:47 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:38 pm After the primer has been sanded, is a thin film of primer enough? When its sanded, does it need to be one solid color of primer grey? I would think as long as it has any thickness of primer, it should be okay to paint. ???
Might show through, but paint it!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Is it ok to wash the boat with a drop of dawn before I put the topcoat on. Of course I'll still wipe it down with solvent wash and then tack it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 pm
by fallguy1000
soap and water wash is common after all the sanding fairing

I did it on mine.

Rinse well.

Alcohol or solvent wash.

Tack final after swamping floor with water.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:44 am
by FluidDynamic
After rolling the primer on with foam roller and tipping with a soft synthetic brush, I have been able to sand the primer easily with no orange peel. The temperature was 65 F and the humidity was 65% to 70%. I had to fill some pin holes, but they have been spot prime and sanded. Everything is sanded to 320 and is ready for the topcoat. Min temp for Alexseal is 60 F. My garage will be around 60 F to 65 F. Humidity should be around 50% to 70% for the next few days. Only problem is I want have my rollers until Monday. Weather sucks after Monday. I'm a little concerned with ventilation. I can't open the garage doors all the way, because it will be below 60 F. How does everyone safely paint in a garage?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:03 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:44 am After rolling the primer on with foam roller and tipping with a soft synthetic brush, I have been able to sand the primer easily with no orange peel. The temperature was 65 F and the humidity was 65% to 70%. I had to fill some pin holes, but they have been spot prime and sanded. Everything is sanded to 320 and is ready for the topcoat. Min temp for Alexseal is 60 F. My garage will be around 60 F to 65 F. Humidity should be around 50% to 70% for the next few days. Only problem is I want have my rollers until Monday. Weather sucks after Monday. I'm a little concerned with ventilation. I can't open the garage doors all the way, because it will be below 60 F. How does everyone safely paint in a garage?
You must wear an organize vapor mask.

My eyes bother me a bit, so I probably could use a full face respirator.

Avoid breathing the 2 part paints; they are highly toxic.

I even wear my respirator mixing now.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:52 pm
by Fuzz
Most parts of boat building do not bother me much but the two part paints are another story :help: Even with a full face respirator and good organic filters I have to be able to open the shop door. So using two part paint is a summer deal only for me.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:04 pm
by fallguy1000
Fuzz wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:52 pm Most parts of boat building do not bother me much but the two part paints are another story :help: Even with a full face respirator and good organic filters I have to be able to open the shop door. So using two part paint is a summer deal only for me.
I hear you David. I took my mask off because it dripped some condensed breath vapor onto my transom edge and within 30 seconds I either had to mask up or run out.

We are painting attached to the house, but I have two rooms between the paint area and dwelling and I run the furnace and open a window in the middle room and the house doesn't get it too bad. But man that shit is bad.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have an attached garage. Will I smell it in the house?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:36 pm
by Jaysen
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:59 pm I have an attached garage. Will I smell it in the house?
Yes. In your neighbor’s house too.

If it were me, I’d wait till warm weather and paint doors open.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:04 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:59 pm I have an attached garage. Will I smell it in the house?
It'll wreak like hell in the house.

Unless you create positive pressure. That could be done by, for example, cracking a service door a bit and then running your furnace or a/c in the house. Then the air coming into your furnace or a/c is theoretically fresh air(or should be) and you are forcing air out of the home. Avoid running any exhaust fans if you try it.

You can test this idea. Basically see if the airflow is coming out of the house service door with a match or your hand. You run the house on fan on full time.

It'll still smell, but if you paint in the morning; the place will be better by dinnertime.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:15 pm
by FluidDynamic
Painting day. Only painting the bottom sea foam green, then I will paint the sides white.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
Pics

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:29 pm
by fallguy1000
I am jealous. Looks great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:39 pm
by Fuzz
To say that looks great is a major understatement :!: That is way too nice for a boat bottom :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:45 pm
by Jeff
Beautiful work!!!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
It laid out even more. I do have a few fish eyes and some dust, but I'm really impressed with the Alexseal so far.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
Is this a fisheye? If so, how do I fix them?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:44 pm
by fallguy1000
The red spot looks like a contaminant. If you are doing multiple coats; I would sand it out with 220. Then use denatured alcohol and see if you can remove it. If you used a red marker on the hull, then see if it will cover on another coat if you plan one; especially don't sand it if it is only a see through and not a divot.

It is hard for me to see the pic well...fyi.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 pm
by FluidDynamic
It's a divot. That was actually a spot where I sanded through the primer and didn't spot prime. Has to be a contaminant. I'll wipe it, sand it and paint over it. I've got two more coats anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:17 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 pm It's a divot. That was actually a spot where I sanded through the primer and didn't spot prime. Has to be a contaminant. I'll wipe it, sand it and paint over it. I've got two more coats anyway.
Up to you...a big divot you can sand with 180 and reprime and topcoat back if you want.

But for bottom, I would just 320 sand or 220/320 if you can't get the 320 to cut it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:26 am
by Jeff
Again, really well done!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
Not going to lie. This hurts my feelings a little. Sanding the mirror. Thankfully, this is the easiest sanding I've done yet on this build.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:36 am
by FluidDynamic
Ready for another coat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:33 am
by fallguy1000
FD - do you have a recoat window with that topcoat?

Perhaps it would have been better to two coat and then sand. Just throwing it out there.

I did two coat mine in the window. Of course, I am having a heluva time keeping my paint thin enough to tip, so what do I know.

What grit did you fall back to?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:06 am
by FluidDynamic
I thought about two coats and then sanding, but I had to get the containment out that caused some fisheyes. I sanded with 320 and it sanded like butter. I used my festool 150 only on the flat spots and sanded by hand the rest. It took me 45 minutes. I have a 4 day window according to the directions to recoat after sanding since the boat is in my garage. If the boat was outside, the window would be 24 hours. I'm not sure why that is. I didn't tip mine at all. I rolled it on with a foam roller and let it sit. I did lightly back roll. At first it looked terrible. Within 15 minutes, it flattened out. I think I have a dust problem. I didn't wet the floor which I think I'll do this time. I'm also still getting some kind of fibers in the paint from maybe the wipes. The wipes are suppose to be lent free, but its coming from somewhere and that is the only thing I can think of. Worse case, if the last coat has some fibers and dust, I can wet sand and buff it. I actually have a extra quart of that color, so I may put on a total of 4 coats. Still would have some left for touch ups later on. I want it pretty thick so I could wet sand and buff if want.

I may thin the paint a little less this time or try to go a little thinner on the application. My ratio was 2:1:1. It started to run on me on the verticals. Thankfully I noticed it quick enough. I took the roller and pushed as much paint as I could out of it and rolled it back over the runs and it smoothed it out. Started to get a little nervous as I have read never to go back and try to rework a spot.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:09 pm
by fallguy1000
You don't wet the floor.

Vacuum the floor. Then swamp the floor.

Then tack off boat.

Then the next morning, before painting, swamp the floor again and tack again.

Clean was not my issue. Paint flow was....

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:27 am
by Dan_Smullen
The last precaution to take, if you haven’t already, may be to wrap the new roller with masking tape, then pull it off,which will pull out any loose fibers left on the roller from manufacturing and shipping.

I feel badly about offering anything seeing how it looks so good already. Kudos for spiffing up the last few details!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
I decided to put two coats on last night. I thinned it a little less this time 2:1:3/4 and it actually did put a slight orange peel on it. Still getting some dust, but I have not followed what Fallguy said about swamping the night before and again in the morning. I think I'm going to sand one more time and thin it again with 2:1:1. I'll just have to make sure I dont go to thick and get runs. I'll also follow the dust suggestions this time as well as use tape on the rollers. Think this will be last coat. I'll have 4 total coats.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:44 pm
by Jeff
FD, I hope this goes well for you!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:40 pm
by Fuzz
So just to make sure I am understanding correctly. You are doing all of this painting on the boats bottom :doh:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:07 pm
by FluidDynamic
The sides have primer on them and are ready to paint. The sides will be white and the bottom will be sea foam green as you see.ki d of like picture below.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
Last coat of sea foam went on today. I'll start on the sides and transom this week.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:31 pm
by FluidDynamic
This turned out better than I ever thought it would. Sides are next.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:05 pm
by VT_Jeff
Looks amazing, inspiring me to keep working on my hull!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:07 pm
by fallguy1000
I think I am gonna repaint mine. Again.

Looks great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:51 am
by FluidDynamic
I do have to say it's not perfect. There is some lint here and there and some dust, but I would say it's a 2 foot finish. I did everything I could. I actually swamped the floor for 3 days prior to painting last coat. Cleaned the surface using the two rag method and made sure rollers were clean with tape. Roller trays were clean. Paint containers were clean and I also strained the paint. Dont know much more I could have done besides building a clean tent. All in all I am happy. Most of this bottom will never see the light of day anyway except the front. I wonder if I could buff the imperfections out without wet sanding.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:06 pm
by fallguy1000
I think you can wet sand buff, but I would make a panel to test and not test on the hull.

“Not far behind your build”

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:07 pm
by Crystal Craft
https://forums.bateau2.com/app.php/gall ... image/5997

Your boat looks great! My Panga 25 build is right behind yours! Following all the postings has been a great help! Thank you all!!
This is my first posting I think a photo of my project is attached if not it will follow when I figure it out!
I’m just moving from sand and fairing to prepping a prime coat.
I will also set up a thread of my project next
Thanks again for the inspiration and information
Crystal Craft
NW Michigan
Sunny over new fallen snow last night 8 degrees

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:15 pm
by FluidDynamic
Crystal Craft wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:07 pm https://forums.bateau2.com/app.php/gall ... image/5997

Your boat looks great! My Panga 25 build is right behind yours! Following all the postings has been a great help! Thank you all!!
This is my first posting I think a photo of my project is attached if not it will follow when I figure it out!
I’m just moving from sand and fairing to prepping a prime coat.
I will also set up a thread of my project next
Thanks again for the inspiration and information
Crystal Craft


NW Michigan
Sunny over new fallen snow last night 8 degrees
Thank you. I was wondering if anyone else was building a Panga. Please post. I couldn't open your picture. Posting has definitely helped me with a better build.

Re: Panga 25 yes I’ll get photos here eventually

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:25 pm
by Crystal Craft
https://forums.bateau2.com/app.php/gallery/image/5997
3442AF9C-F379-4139-AB8B-227A5B1858CB.jpeg
1E4F990C-94F0-4B5D-82C6-054BABE039F0.jpeg
This is another photo try if not here it will follow ASAP
I look forward to sharing this ahead!
Crystal Craft

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:09 pm
by FluidDynamic
Looks great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
I forgot to post this, but after posting about how great the paint looked, I woke up the next morning to see what it looked like and it had dried to a semi-gloss finish. All of my conditions were the same, but I think I forgot to stir the paint before I put the last coat on. Do you think that is what caused it. All the other coats looked like a mirror after drying. There is also one area that is a little thin where I must have not rolled over it. It only took 45 minutes to sand in between coats and 45 minutes to put a coat on, so I think I'm going to sand and put another coat on. My first reaction was to see what the humidity was, but it was around the same as it was for all of the other coats.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
I had to do it. I went ahead and sanded. There were some spots that I missed with the roller and there was a bunch of lint on the first part of the boat I painted the other night. As I mentioned in last post, the gloss wasn't looking good either. If I'm going g to do it, it's going to be done right. Another layer will help in the future for buffing anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:11 am
by fallguy1000
It takes me about 20 hours of sanding and about 4 hours of cleaning and prep.

Tomorrow is final sanding and cleaning the hull and room. Then we tack morning of.

Best of luck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
I know it looks the same in the pics, but I think I got most of the lent out this time. I'm happy with it. Moving on to the sides.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm
by fallguy1000
It looks great. I had some lint or paint solids or something in my transom steps when we started. I kind of think it was some dry paint on the can edge from my panel testing yesterday.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:42 pm
by Dan_Smullen
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 pm I know it looks the same in the pics, but I think I got most of the lent out this time. I'm happy with it. Moving on to the sides.
Looks like you got it. Slick work, bud!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:15 am
by Jeff
Really well done FluidDynamic!! She is going to be a beautiful Panga!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:02 pm
by FluidDynamic
Waiting on warmer weather to finish painting the transom and sides. Too cold this week.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
Are a few pinholes in the final finish okay?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:31 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:23 pm Are a few pinholes in the final finish okay?
Sure hope so..I got a couple. I have been told the paint will blister..

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:42 pm
by FluidDynamic
Painting is done. May have to put some kinda pin stripe to cover the line between the two different colors. It's not perfect. Anyway, next step is to build some kind of flipping jig on the hull then flip it this week sometime. It's going to be wierd walking g out in my garage with a boat flipped. It's been a year. If anyone's wondering, the rub rails will be painted later after I wrap fiberglass over the gunnel cap.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:32 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Well done!

She looks great upside down, but right side up will be good to see too!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:32 pm
by Rtorres2411
WOW 8) Great job.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:50 pm
by Fuzz
That is going to be one pretty Panga :!:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
I started building a cradle for flipping. I hope this will be sufficient. I plan on putting the cradles on each frame. Build a level frame around the cradles. Then put the cradle on the floor next to the jig, flip the boat, then put it on the cradles. Next, I will cut all of the frames off of the jig, then set the boat sitting on the cradles back on the strong backs.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:44 am
by Jeff
Beautiful paint job FluidDynamic!!! Good luck on the flip!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:28 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 pm I started building a cradle for flipping. I hope this will be sufficient. I plan on putting the cradles on each frame. Build a level frame around the cradles. Then put the cradle on the floor next to the jig, flip the boat, then put it on the cradles. Next, I will cut all of the frames off of the jig, then set the boat sitting on the cradles back on the strong backs.
I would tie the cradles together for and aft to make sure they don't roll over on you.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:52 pm
by FluidDynamic
4 more sets of cradles and I'll be ready to flip the boat. Maybe a couple of weeks. Vacation time now.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:42 pm
by Jeff
Enjoy your vacation!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
One more cradle.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:27 pm
by Fuzz
Your cradle is going to work out just fine. The way you made it should give a perfect fit when flipped.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:14 am
by OrangeQuest
Wow! Very nice!!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:20 pm
by FluidDynamic
Still have not flipped it. I put some casters on the cradle so I could push it out of the garage when needed. I realized there would be no way to fit a trailer and the cradle in the garage at the same time. The idea is to flip the hull on to the cradle and finish everything except installing the motor. Then I'll push the boat sitting on the cradle outside to transfer to the trailer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:40 am
by Eric1
Great job on the cradle! Good luck on your flip!! :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:19 pm
by Fuzz
Putting casters under the cradle should almost be mandatory. Being able to move the boat with ease just makes the whole job better.
I love the looks of the pangas and this one is going to be great!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:05 pm
by rbecker08
I know I am late to the party but that paint job is incredible

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:21 pm
by FluidDynamic
Got a little more done. I flipped the cradle over onto the floor. I'll need to brace the frame for the cradles. Beef it up a little so it doesn't twist and warp on me. The boat is next.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:47 am
by Jeff
Good plan!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
Starting to think about motors. Debating whether or not to go with Yamaha or Suzuki. I was thinking of the white Suzuki 70 hp, but it weighs 343 pounds. A Suzuki 60 hp weighs 229 pounds. While a Yamaha 70 hp weighs 253 pounds. The Yamaha 60 hp weighs 247 pounds.

The Suzuki 60 hp sounds good, but will it matter give or take around 100 pounds on the transom for the Panga?
I just think a white Suzuki would look good on this boat. Not really sure what the difference would be with 10 hp.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:12 pm
by Fuzz
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=440

I have no advice on motor choice but the above link might help you.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:19 am
by OneWayTraffic
Remember that the Pangas plane very easily, are designed to cruise at 25mph and are very sensitive to weight on the transom. I wouldn't go any heavier than 120kg max. I don't see that the extra grunt of the Suk 70 or any motor in that weight class will help. The Yamaha 70 is a nice motor by all accounts but I don't know how often you would use the extra 10hp over either of the 60hp in those brands. I would go with any 60hp from a major brand but no heavier unless it was free.

There is a Panga25 with a 90 Honda. That boat is much bigger than yours and preforms well apparently.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:07 am
by cape man
I LOVE my Yamaha 70 and it has made my OD 18 a new boat compared to the 40 I ran on it for years. At 253 lbs it is just 3 lbs over 120 kg. I get almost the same fuel economy as most of the time I am way below WOT when running. 4 days in the Keys last summer, including a trip off shore, only burned 16 gallons of gas. Suzuki makes an excellent engine, but if weight is an issue I would go with the Yamaha and not worry about the color. Grey will look fine on that boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:15 pm
by OneWayTraffic
JAsmine got 31mph+ with a F60. How much extra $ is the 70 Stateside? I would be surprised if you see a lot of extra speed on that hull, but if the difference was only a few $ I'd go with that.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
If I can get 30 mph, I'd be happy with that. I haven't really compared prices yet. I do know that the Suzuki 60 weighs less than all of them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:35 am
by FluidDynamic
1 year and 1 month, the boat is finally flipped. Flipped it with 4 people total. Two adjusting the chains on the houst and two flipping the hull within the straps. It was flipped in 10 minutes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:53 pm
by Eric1
Good Job!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:22 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Congrats on the flip!
Sweet rig made it a snap!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:04 am
by Jeff
Great flip FluidDynamic!!! Congrats on making it look easy!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:21 am
by FluidDynamic
I sanded all of the drips and epoxy runs. I filled part of the kerfs where the tape for the keel needed to go and I placed three overlapping layers of epoxied tape. The plans only called for two, but I was thinking it would be stronger with three. Might be overkill. I ran out of time, so I had to sand all of the other filets

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:01 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:21 am I sanded all of the drips and epoxy runs. I filled part of the kerfs where the tape for the keel needed to go and I placed three overlapping layers of epoxied tape. The plans only called for two, but I was thinking it would be stronger with three. Might be overkill. I ran out of time, so I had to sand all of the other filets
Looks good. When you tape; avoid laying tapes on top of each other creating a high edge. This creates issues with localizing weakness (next to the higher strength area) as well as difficulty with future laminations.

It could also just be my eyes or the picture.

Stagger the tapes or size them differently to avoid this issue. An example is taping 4-4 offset with a 3" tape in the middle on top of the two offsets. Or 6,4-4 offsets, or 8-6-4.

Sometimes hard to do, but always the best way.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:05 pm
by FluidDynamic
They are staggered. Its just the picture that makes it look like that. There is at least a 2" overlap on each tape.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:55 pm
by sharkbait2576
Back in action. I have everything cut out. I try to do my own research and not ask questions that others have asked. But……I can’t find anywhere in the plans how far from centerline the stringers are? I see how deep to cut the notches based on the stations. Any help? Thanks

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:02 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 pm I epoxy glued the stringers this morning, cut the notches on the frames, and braced the transom. I should be able to place the stringers on the frames tomorrow.

Where do you find distance from centerline for stringers. Wanted to quote your post so it’s easier to find. Thanks.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:27 pm
by FluidDynamic
Look at Frame C on the sheet that shows the cutout dimensions for the frames. It is 12" from the centerline.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:16 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:05 pm They are staggered. Its just the picture that makes it look like that. There is at least a 2" overlap on each tape.
All good. Truth is I can't see shit early in the morning. Too much fiberglass sandmen in my eyes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:42 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:27 pm Look at Frame C on the sheet that shows the cutout dimensions for the frames. It is 12" from the centerline.
Thanks for the help!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:20 pm
by FluidDynamic
Dry fitting the blanket.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:20 am
by fallguy1000
Big hunka glass. Is that db1700?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:14 pm
by FluidDynamic
Its 12 oz biaxial.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:25 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:14 pm Its 12 oz biaxial.
12 oz is much easier to work with, but still lotsa glass

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:55 pm
by FluidDynamic
Wetting out the Biaxial as l is a ton of work. Only got one side done. I guess I'll have to sand the overlap. I dont see how anyone could do wet on wet for all the tape joints and the fabric.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:07 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:32 am
by fallguy1000
Looking good. About the best you could do for all that work is wet on green. (Lay glass on cured, but but before primary bonding window closes. That would mean every day. I glassed the rooftop Monday and laid fairing compound Wednesday, so that is wet on green. I gave it am xtra day cuz I had to walk on it.

If you were gonna try to do it all in a single day you have to roll your way back. Or with 12 oz; you would walk your way back out to do it in a single go.

Possible, but pretty hard. The overlap would require extra effort because it won't wet down through both layers.

The only way to do wet on green is lay tapes on day and glass within the window both sides. Honestly, not worth the efforts.

I sort of had to glass the entire roof in one day. It is 8 by 12, so perfect for a middle overlap where I wanted some more strength. I rolled the last glass back toward me because it was db1700 which wants epoxy under to wet.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:34 pm
by ChaisnTails
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:55 pm Wetting out the Biaxial as l is a ton of work. Only got one side done. I guess I'll have to sand the overlap. I dont see how anyone could do wet on wet for all the tape joints and the fabric.
It’s a lot of work. If I had to do it again, I wouldn’t have done it that way. Do what he says! 👆🏻

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:01 am
by FluidDynamic
Working from home and taking care of kids while this virus is circulating prevented me from wet on green. Not too much sanding. I'm still going to sand again before I put the stringers and frames in. Guess alot more sanding is in my future.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
Fiberglass complete inside. Start on the stringers today.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:49 pm
by PapaDave
Nice looking work and boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:12 pm
by cape man
Go baby go!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
Using the throw away frames to line up the stringers.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:36 pm
by cape man
Good use

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:50 pm
by FluidDynamic
Stringers are tacked in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:01 pm
by fallguy1000
Looking good.

Tab em in!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:09 pm
by FluidDynamic
Should I finish fileting the stri ger and glass it or should I put the frames in and then finish fileting everything then glass?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:14 pm
by joe2700
I think it's a lot easier to tape in the stringers in one long go rather than working around each frame. You'll just need to take a little off the frames to make room for the fillets before you add them back in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:00 am
by Fuzz
Glass in the Stringers first like Joe says. The stringers are the backbone of the boat. They need to be strong and having the glass run full length without interruptions helps.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:50 am
by FluidDynamic
Makes sense to me. I already have to trim the notches in the frames to account for the extra width of the glass. Cutting the corners next the notch wont he a big deal.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:36 am
by Jeff
Really nice progress FluidDynamic!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:58 pm
by FluidDynamic
I got one of the stringers done this afternoon. It's a lot of work filleting the stringer and putting 2 layers of 12 oz biaxial on both sides. This boat is going to be ridiculously strong. It's amazing the weight difference already from the time I flipped until now.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:17 pm
by fallguy1000
Nice clean work. Looks great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finished with the stringers. That was alot of work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:31 am
by fallguy1000
Backbone of the boat. Looks real good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:45 am
by Jeff
Really nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
Fitting frames in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:23 am
by Browndog
Well done and nice pictures!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
Think I made my first screw up with mixing epoxy. I was taping in Frame B last night and I almost finished, but had to mix a little more epoxy. I must have not measured it correctly, because it didnt fully cure. It's been about 18 hours and it's a consistency of a hard rubber. Should I wait another 24 hours or should I start scraping? Its Marinepoxy slow hardener. All of the epoxy that I did prior to that is fully cured.Last night it got in the upper 50s, but today it's been in the mid 70s.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:42 pm
by cape man
Give it a day.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:15 am
by Arm&Hammer
I agree with Cape Man. Give it a little longer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am
by Jeff
I also agree!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:40 am
by FluidDynamic
I put some heat on it last night with a heater. It's now hardened to where I can barely push my finger nail in it. Yesterday, I could push my finger into it and compress it. Cant do that now. Looks like its curing, but taking alot longer than normal. If the mix was off a little, does that effect curing time and final strength.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:58 pm
by FluidDynamic
All frames except the motor well bulkhead are glassed in. After the motorwell, I'll clean up a little and start with the plumbing.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
Beginning of the plumbing. Much more to go.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:46 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:00 pm Starting to regret tabbing with fiberglass. Sanding is tough. Please tell me when I get to the point I'm using quickfair to fair the hull, it sands easier.
I am at the point to put the sides of the boat on tomorrow. What would you do instead of tabbing with fiberglass? Thanks for letting me hang on to your build! I have been documenting but don't have any experiences different than yours.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:55 pm
by FluidDynamic
You can just use filets of thickened epoxy. It should hold everything together so you can cut all of the zip ties out. Then you can fill the remaining joints.The fiberglass tabs, increase the amount of fairing. I ended up sanding most of them down which was a pain.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:46 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:55 pm You can just use filets of thickened epoxy. It should hold everything together so you can cut all of the zip ties out. Then you can fill the remaining joints.The fiberglass tabs, increase the amount of fairing. I ended up sanding most of them down which was a pain.
Very nice. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:57 am
by OneWayTraffic
Given the pressure on the PG20 panels though, I'd still think that a patch or two at the bow would help. Especially with Meranti. Okoumes another story. My C17 had a panel pop loose when I got too enthusiastic on planing a radius on the corners. I had to restitch it and used a patch.

I'm not saying don't do it, just proceed with caution.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:29 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, it does matter what type of wood you are using. I used okoume. As the previous poster said, towards the bow, a few tabs won't hurt. I tabbed the whole boat which was not necessary.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:21 am
by OneWayTraffic
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:40 am I put some heat on it last night with a heater. It's now hardened to where I can barely push my finger nail in it. Yesterday, I could push my finger into it and compress it. Cant do that now. Looks like its curing, but taking alot longer than normal. If the mix was off a little, does that effect curing time and final strength.
Yes, to a point. There's a certain allowable tolerance of course, then mixes outside of that will compromise physical properties, even if it gets hard. I am assuming that since it is curing that you weren't too far out but it is a judgment call as to what to do. If it's in a structural area, and if I had any doubts at all about the overall bond, I'd remove and redo. Otherwise I'd think long and hard about where it is in the boat. If it's cured hard I'd have a dig with a metal probe (like an iki spike) and compare to a known good cure.

One option is to put another layer of tape over just that bit, overlapping onto good glass by a couple of inches. That might be overkill, but I'd sleep at night. If it's only a small area in a frame then you might be ok.

At the end of the day it's your call.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:10 am
by FluidDynamic
It ended up curing. I really don't know what happened.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:08 am
by OneWayTraffic
Possible that it's not as strong. Only a destructive test would tell you. Build on, I suppose.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
It was a small area. This thing has so much fiberglass on it, I'm not worried.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:51 pm
by FluidDynamic
Plumbing is done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:45 pm
by OneWayTraffic
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:49 pm It was a small area. This thing has so much fiberglass on it, I'm not worried.
In that case I wouldn't be either. Nice job by the way. I considered building a Pg20, even bought the plans. It would go well in NZ chop. In the end wife wanted a 'roof' and I wanted more protection from the elements, so went with the C17.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:40 pm
by sharkbait2576
OneWayTraffic wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:57 am Given the pressure on the PG20 panels though, I'd still think that a patch or two at the bow would help. Especially with Meranti. Okoumes another story. My C17 had a panel pop loose when I got too enthusiastic on planing a radius on the corners. I had to restitch it and used a patch.

I'm not saying don't do it, just proceed with caution.
Thanks to the both of you. I went with just the filet. I was very skeptical. But....I'm not anymore. I cut the zips and unscrewed from the frames. Everything just kind of went into shape. Very cool part of the build. Filled in the holes and zip tie spots today. Gonna sand some tomorrow and get on with the fiberglassing.. Thanks again guys.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:43 pm
by sharkbait2576
On a side note. I got some silica filler for the filet. I paint cars etc. and had a little mixing bucket that must've still had a small bit of clean up chemical. Either alcohol or mineral spirits. i mixed the epoxy in it and added the filler. I'm not joking....about ten minutes later there was a large clump in the bottom that was hardened and it was hot and smoking. I got to teach my son some important lessons about chemicals. LOL

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:18 pm
by OneWayTraffic
sharkbait2576 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:40 pm
OneWayTraffic wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:57 am Given the pressure on the PG20 panels though, I'd still think that a patch or two at the bow would help. Especially with Meranti. Okoumes another story. My C17 had a panel pop loose when I got too enthusiastic on planing a radius on the corners. I had to restitch it and used a patch.

I'm not saying don't do it, just proceed with caution.
Thanks to the both of you. I went with just the filet. I was very skeptical. But....I'm not anymore. I cut the zips and unscrewed from the frames. Everything just kind of went into shape. Very cool part of the build. Filled in the holes and zip tie spots today. Gonna sand some tomorrow and get on with the fiberglassing.. Thanks again guys.
I suggest you get a build thread started. They are meant to go in the bottom subforum: builder's progress. Worth the time you spend on it, with the pointers you get.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, please. I would like to see some pictures.When I started this thread, I didn't realize it was supposed to be in the builders power boats.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
Today, I had to clean the garage while I wait on the foam. It got a little out of control. Its better now. Makes the 20' boat look small when its clean.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:12 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:48 pm Today, I had to clean the garage while I wait on the foam. It got a little out of control. Its better now. Makes the 20' boat look small when its clean.
Nice big workspace!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:00 am
by pee wee
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:12 am Nice big workspace!
Work- space, it is the space that is so valuable and allows us to work. We all appreciate the space, it just takes effort to maintain and preserve, but it's worth the time.


Great job getting your space functional again, FD!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:05 am
by OrangeQuest
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:48 pm Today, I had to clean the garage while I wait on the foam. It got a little out of control. Its better now. Makes the 20' boat look small when its clean.
Looks nice.

Reminds me of something I need to do with my work space, right after I find it under everything! 8O

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:10 pm
by Fuzz
Heck you have plenty of room to build a PG-25 plus 10% :lol: Nice looking work space.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:21 pm
by Jeff
Nice work space!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:46 pm
by FluidDynamic
Gluing on the cleats for the sole.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:58 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I'm going to be in the foam it and forget it boat. After pouring and filling one area, I'm not sure where water could ever be even if there was a large hole in the bottom of the boat. It literally sticks to and fills ever little nook and cranny. Its not exactly easy to cut flush to the floor. I had to cut 8t higher and then sand it down. Are there any easier ways to cut this stuff. It cuts easy, just awkward.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:58 pm
by Fuzz
I have had pretty good luck with a good cross-cut saw.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:40 pm
by FluidDynamic
I put in the floor where the gas tanks sits. Tank should be here in a week or two. Great price through Boat Builder.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 12:03 pm
by sharkbait2576
Did you glass the entire bottom first then put the rubrail on or the other way around? Same question with the spray rail

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:41 am
by FluidDynamic
Yes, I glassed the entire hull before I put the rub rail on. I will put the glass on the rubrail once the gunnel cap is attached. The idea is to have fiberglass over the gunnel cap and down the rail so its seamless. I put the spray rail and skeg on after glassing the entire hull. Before you do that, you can do a little fairing. Just don't attach anything over quickfair. Make sure it attaches to glass. I then put fiberglass over them and then finished fairing the hull. I think it took me longer to fair the skeg and the spray rails then it did the hull. One thing I started doing half way into filleting skeg was to use peel ply. It makes it so much easier to come back with fiberglass a day or so later since you don't have to sand.I did use peel ply on the fillet on the bottom of the rail. In general, when you know you can't complete joints wet on wet, then I try to use peel ply on the fillets.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 11:27 am
by sharkbait2576
Awesome! Thanks very much.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:31 pm
by Reid
FluidDynamic,
Fuel tank is packed up and on its way. Hope you like it!
-Reid
IMG_5498.jpg

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. I'm looking forward to putting the deck over it and never seeing it again.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 1:57 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks for the fuel tank from boat builder. It was cheaper to get a custom powder coated tank through boat builder than buy a rds premanufactured tank. It looks great.

Also got some foam in the boat. Pain in the ass to cut level to the deck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 2:29 pm
by Jeff
Thank you for the kind words FluidDynamic. I think yours was the fourth tank we have sold and I have been impressed with their quality of work and time frame in getting them finished!!! jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 2:38 pm
by Reid
Clay,

Try the hot wire method to cut the foam. It worked really well for me.

-Reid

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:39 pm
by sharkbait2576
Looking really good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 11:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
Too cold to foam the rest.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:58 am
by cape man
I may have missed it but how big is the fuel tank?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:04 am
by OneWayTraffic
18 gallons if it's the same as the plans. Looks the same. I've always liked the PG20, wanted to build one, but decided a cabin was a must have.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:14 am
by Browndog
Looking really good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 8:35 am
by FluidDynamic
Same dimensions as plans state which is 18 gallons. Its stamped as 17 gallons.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:45 pm
by FluidDynamic
I forgot to epoxy some bolts for the tank under the sole where the tank sits. I had to build a platform with the bolts epoxied under and through.

I also got one of the soles glued in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:47 pm
by FluidDynamic
I officially have a floor.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:40 pm
by fallguy1000
Great feeling ain't it?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:13 pm
by FluidDynamic
Absolutely. They are glued down and ready to fillet and tape.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:51 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm wondering if I should put a couple of fairing coats on the gunnels before I tape in the frames. Should make it easier to fair the frames in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:44 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 9:51 pm I'm wondering if I should put a couple of fairing coats on the gunnels before I tape in the frames. Should make it easier to fair the frames in.
If you think it easier; do it. Fairing is hard enough. But how are you gonna fair frames with tapes? Isn't that gonna get done twice then?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:56 pm
by FluidDynamic
If I'm using a longboard, I think it would be easier to fair to a certain point then put the frames in. The tape on the frames will be 6 oz woven and I'll use peel ply on those. After that, there would be little left to fair.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:38 am
by GuyP
Looking really good. Especially the exterior hull photo. You brought your splash rails to about the same place foreword as I did.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:08 pm
by sharkbait2576
Couple of questions. I'm getting ready to put on rub rails and spray rails.

1. Did you buy pieces long enough you didn't have to splice? I'm going for the same type look you are with natural wood rub rails and on top of gunnels.
2. When you put the rub rails on, did you epoxy them to the side and clamp? What about the spray rails?
3. After you filets the edges all the way down, did you glass over the whole rub rail and spray rail? If so, how do you keep the wood color with a layer of fiberglass over it.

Thanks for putting up with my ignorance. I've got about a thousand ways in my head it could be done and just looking for the best.

Jerry

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:38 pm
by FluidDynamic
1. You need to splice them or buy long enough pieces. I messed up and didn't do either of those. I put a 12' piece on and then the rest. It slight bowed the side panel out where the two pieces met. Its barely noticeable, but would have done it differently if I had to do it again. I'm actually not doing bright work. I asked the same question in my thread some where and there were a few answers. Search for varnish in my thread and you will find some info. Mine will be painted. Before painting, I will wrap fiberglass over the coaming and over the top of the deck then down the rub rail.
2/3 Yes, I epoxied them with clamps. I would use system three gel magic for that or thicken the epoxy slightly. You want no voids so use alot. The spray rails were screwed down with thickened epoxy behind them. Once cured, you can remove the screws and filet the joints. From there, I shaped them the way I wanted them by using a longboard. That way it was a smooth curve over the entire spray rail. After getting the shape I wanted, I then glassed over them with 12 ounce biaxial tape. Same with the skeg. After deciding against brightwork, I never researched any further on how to keep it bright. I have built a paddleboard that I used brightwork. On that, I used a lightweight cloth, with a Special clear epoxy. I think they sale the clear on boatbuilder. The problem you will have is hiding the filets or transitions between the deck and the rail. It can definitely be done, but I never got that far to see the best way to do it. Mine will be painted the same color as my sides, but the groove you see on my rail will be covered with a rope rub rail. Main reason for painting, is because of the maintenance for brightwork. You have to have something to protect it from UV rays. I varnished over my paddleboard. Clear epoxy will yellow over time without something protecti g it from UV rays.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:15 am
by cape man
The EMC Clear Quantum 99 paint is awesome for covering bright work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:22 am
by pee wee
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:38 pm 1. You need to splice them or buy long enough pieces.I put a 12' piece on and then the rest. It slight bowed the side panel out where the two pieces met. Its barely noticeable, but would have done it differently if I had to do it again.
You won't find lumber over 20 feet at many lumberyards, so a splice will probably be in your future. To help avoid the kink at the splice joint, clamp a temporary piece on the inside spanning several feet in each direction when you glue the rub rail. Use a long scarf joint if you can make one, and try to match the color of the wood- maybe cut them from the same piece and flip one end for end. If you set up supports and trial fit things, you may want to start at the joint and work fore and aft as you glue and clamp, do a dry run before you commit. Hope you have lots of clamps! Check that your wood will make the bend, since you're finishing bright you could: use a wood that bends easily, steam a piece of wood to the bend and let it dry before applying epoxy, or laminate the whole rub rail out of thin layers (and stagger the seams).

As you are finding out, finishing au naturel takes planning, extra work and more time.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:13 am
by sharkbait2576
pee wee wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 9:22 am
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:38 pm 1. You need to splice them or buy long enough pieces.I put a 12' piece on and then the rest. It slight bowed the side panel out where the two pieces met. Its barely noticeable, but would have done it differently if I had to do it again.
You won't find lumber over 20 feet at many lumberyards, so a splice will probably be in your future. To help avoid the kink at the splice joint, clamp a temporary piece on the inside spanning several feet in each direction when you glue the rub rail. Use a long scarf joint if you can make one, and try to match the color of the wood- maybe cut them from the same piece and flip one end for end. If you set up supports and trial fit things, you may want to start at the joint and work fore and aft as you glue and clamp, do a dry run before you commit. Hope you have lots of clamps! Check that your wood will make the bend, since you're finishing bright you could: use a wood that bends easily, steam a piece of wood to the bend and let it dry before applying epoxy, or laminate the whole rub rail out of thin layers (and stagger the seams).

As you are finding out, finishing au naturel takes planning, extra work and more time.
Thanks!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:17 am
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:38 pm 1. You need to splice them or buy long enough pieces. I messed up and didn't do either of those. I put a 12' piece on and then the rest. It slight bowed the side panel out where the two pieces met. Its barely noticeable, but would have done it differently if I had to do it again. I'm actually not doing bright work. I asked the same question in my thread some where and there were a few answers. Search for varnish in my thread and you will find some info. Mine will be painted. Before painting, I will wrap fiberglass over the coaming and over the top of the deck then down the rub rail.
2/3 Yes, I epoxied them with clamps. I would use system three gel magic for that or thicken the epoxy slightly. You want no voids so use alot. The spray rails were screwed down with thickened epoxy behind them. Once cured, you can remove the screws and filet the joints. From there, I shaped them the way I wanted them by using a longboard. That way it was a smooth curve over the entire spray rail. After getting the shape I wanted, I then glassed over them with 12 ounce biaxial tape. Same with the skeg. After deciding against brightwork, I never researched any further on how to keep it bright. I have built a paddleboard that I used brightwork. On that, I used a lightweight cloth, with a Special clear epoxy. I think they sale the clear on boatbuilder. The problem you will have is hiding the filets or transitions between the deck and the rail. It can definitely be done, but I never got that far to see the best way to do it. Mine will be painted the same color as my sides, but the groove you see on my rail will be covered with a rope rub rail. Main reason for painting, is because of the maintenance for brightwork. You have to have something to protect it from UV rays. I varnished over my paddleboard. Clear epoxy will yellow over time without something protecti g it from UV rays.
Awesome. I appreciate it. I was on the fence about the brightwork. Getting votes from my wife and daughter...both artists, one liked the wood, the other thought it looked better painted. I'll go the easy route on this build. Makes the wood cheaper for the rails too!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:55 pm
by FluidDynamic
Not trying to discourage you from doing bright work, just giving you the reasons why I chose against it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:17 pm
by pee wee
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:55 pm Not trying to discourage you from doing bright work, just giving you the reasons why I chose against it.
Same here! Look at Cape Man's OD18, Hybird (sic) MF14, Peter Curacao's Rum Runner, Joel Shine's runabout, the sole of Cracker Larry's GF18 . . . more work to do, but they look great. And they took longer to build- your choice, some guys want to get on the water as fast as possible, or save the extra touches for the next build; your build, your reasons.

Another option would be to use a touch of bright work somewhere it was easier to do, but highly visible, like trimming a cockpit edge, or a rail on the console, etc. Or not.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:30 pm
by cape man
Check out Glossie Black's ST21 also. Touch of wood on the coaming.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:16 pm
by sharkbait2576
pee wee wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:17 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:55 pm Not trying to discourage you from doing bright work, just giving you the reasons why I chose against it.
Same here! Look at Cape Man's OD18, Hybird (sic) MF14, Peter Curacao's Rum Runner, Joel Shine's runabout, the sole of Cracker Larry's GF18 . . . more work to do, but they look great. And they took longer to build- your choice, some guys want to get on the water as fast as possible, or save the extra touches for the next build; your build, your reasons.

Another option would be to use a touch of bright work somewhere it was easier to do, but highly visible, like trimming a cockpit edge, or a rail on the console, etc. Or not.
Good thoughts. Maybe I'll do some trim pieces etc.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 1:00 pm
by FluidDynamic
Fiberglass in my finger.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 1:47 pm
by Jeff
Were they able to get the glass out of your finger? Take care of yourself, Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:13 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yea, they had to cut it out since it was buried. It's been in there for a couple of weeks. I thought I just scraped it since it didn't swell until yesterday.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:40 pm
by Jeff
Well, at least it is out and you can properly heal!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:08 pm
by cape man
Nothing worse than a foreign body pain. Well maybe some things are worse, but they suck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:32 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 1:00 pm Fiberglass in my finger.
That sucks.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
Taping the joints on the floor. Using peel ply to get a smoother joint so fairing will not be as difficult.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:15 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have a question about the scupper assembly. See attachments. What should I use at A? Should I use another through hull through the bulkhead? Should I use a 1.5" PVC pipe labeled C in the photo? If I use a pipe, what should I use at location B on the photo to connect the gemlux adaptor to the pipe? There doesn't seam to be any way to have the thru hull right at the sole level since the transom is angled. I'm a little lost how to connect all of this. I have attached pictures of all of the fittings as well. I was also planning on using a plug when under way so water wont enter the boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:39 pm
by Rtorres2411
What you are planning is the same setup I did on the OB15. I used a reinforced flexible pvc hose clamped to the thruhulls. The transom thruhull is at a slight angle because of the transom angle. On the cockpit side I used a plastic thruhull. This setup has worked well for me. With no passengers on the boat, the sole is dry. With passengers the port side lets a bit of water in. While underway the sole is completely dry, except from spray :D .

Ruben

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:44 pm
by joe2700
I have the same gemlux duckbill thru hull and will be doing the same setup as Ruben. Using 1.5" ID fuel fill hose between the inner and outer thru hulls because I have some extra. I just cut the inner thru hull down from a normal one because I wanted stainless steel for looks. This album shows what I did for that inner thru hull.
Imgur Album
.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:52 pm
by Cbuf
I did an pretty elaborate setup for my cockpit drains. I used pvc in between the to gemlux scuppers. I also installed a helper pump to help clear the cockpit of light water and it overflows out the scuppers if I get swamped. From what I have heard from the pangas you might want to do something similar as I thought I read you could be in two - three inches of water until you get on plane to clear it all out. I think that was in panga Ron’s thread. When my boat is sitting at the dock it drains without the aid of the pump. However with 2 people and a full livewell the scupper is underwater or at water level, so without the aid of a pump it is slow draining.
Couple other points
Fuel line is not very flexible. I used 1.5 inch bilge hose. Why, because connecting to the gemlux on the transom is at an angle that doesn’t allow the pipe to be level.
Don’t forget to take into account the thickness of the transom when drilling the hole. Mine is about 3/8 higher than I wanted it because the angle and thickness of the transom wasn’t accounted for in my measurement.
Also when measuring don’t forget to account for the length of the gemlux plus the hose fitting. I think at the transom it drops about an 1” to get level.
The scuppers do a great job but not perfect you will get some back flow leaking.
Lastly I had raised my sole 1”. That left me a nice channel to hold and direct water into the drains.

Check out my build thread pages 7 and 8.
If I was to do it all again I would have only
Planned for a better scupper drain box. Right now I’m using a Walmart clear plastic food container. I will eventually make a better box.

Let me know if you want more pics

Cbuf

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thank you for the responses. I was thinking of doing the same thing with cutting the thru hull for the motorwell bulkhead. I see now a pipe isn't necessary. Now the stressful part of cutting a large hole through the transom.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
Got the deck over the tank glued down today.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:56 am
by Dan_Smullen
That seems like a significant milestone!

Nice collection of tools on the deck too! I’m a firm believer that the right tool for the job always makes for the best possible end result.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:20 am
by Jeff
Nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 am
by FluidDynamic
Dan_Smullen wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 6:56 am That seems like a significant milestone!

Nice collection of tools on the deck too! I’m a firm believer that the right tool for the job always makes for the best possible end result.
Yes, I started with a cheap orbital sander and used it for a month. I realized real quick that wasn't going to cut it. The Festool makes quick work out of sanding. Can also sell it when I'm done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:53 am
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 am
Dan_Smullen wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 6:56 am That seems like a significant milestone!

Nice collection of tools on the deck too! I’m a firm believer that the right tool for the job always makes for the best possible end result.
Yes, I started with a cheap orbital sander and used it for a month. I realized real quick that wasn't going to cut it. The Festool makes quick work out of sanding. Can also sell it when I'm done.
Which festool sander is that? Do you use their paper with it?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 2:14 pm
by FluidDynamic
Its a festool ro150 rotex. Yes I prefer the festool paper.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 4:47 pm
by Fuzz
The thing I like most about my Festool sanders is how well they work with their vac system. All my work is indoors and I no longer have a huge about of dust every where. I also have a 125 sander and use it as much or more than the 150 because it is lighter and easier to control even though it will not remove material nearly was fast.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:27 pm
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:14 pm Its a festool ro150 rotex. Yes I prefer the festool paper.
I'll never question you again. Went and go the sander. Ohhhhh myyyyy. What a sweet ass tool.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:42 am
by fallguy1000
Those rotex are the s..t.

Looking good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:01 pm
by sharkbait2576
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 10:42 am Those rotex are the s..t.

Looking good.
Got that right.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:42 pm
by Fuzz
Be very careful :help: Festool is crack for boat builders :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
The small stuff is the most time consuming. Cut the electrical tube down in the rear port locker. I then placed cleats and the sole. Once cured, I will cut the hole over the flushed electrical tube where the engine harness can be run.

I have also finished taping all the sole joints. Left a hole for the fuel fill and vent line in the sole over the tank. I'll hide those by boxing them in to the hull side.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:23 am
by sharkbait2576
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:53 pm Starting to think about motors. Debating whether or not to go with Yamaha or Suzuki. I was thinking of the white Suzuki 70 hp, but it weighs 343 pounds. A Suzuki 60 hp weighs 229 pounds. While a Yamaha 70 hp weighs 253 pounds. The Yamaha 60 hp weighs 247 pounds.

The Suzuki 60 hp sounds good, but will it matter give or take around 100 pounds on the transom for the Panga?
I just think a white Suzuki would look good on this boat. Not really sure what the difference would be with 10 hp.
I know everybody has their preference on motors....My boats (and most others) in the Bahamas run Yamaha. I have a buddy that gets Suzukis and it seems they have very weird problems. Some big some small. We run the hell out of them and generally only fresh water rinse them if they are going to be put up for more than a week. I.E. we don't baby them. I've had Mercury before but I think the Yamaha is the way to go for reliability. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:14 pm
by Fuzz
For me it would depend on dealer and price in that order. Now days I think all of them are good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:50 pm
by fallguy1000
Yamaha 70hp is lightest in class; few complaints I have read about. Was going on my boat, but I wanted more alternator.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:00 pm
by sharkbait2576
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:50 pm Yamaha 70hp is lightest in class; few complaints I have read about. Was going on my boat, but I wanted more alternator.
Same. Exactly what I’m going to get.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:25 pm
by FluidDynamic
I think I've settled on the white suzuki 60 hp. If you read jasmine's thread he said a 50 would even be OK. There are alot of charter boats in my area running suzukis. My other boat i have 300 verados and love them. I've had Yamaha, mercury, and suzukis. All three have been great motors. Maybe, I've been lucky and never had any issues. I also maintain my motors and keep them in top running condition. Probably the reason they have all been great motors.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finished my bilge. Ready to sand and paint. Then ill install the fuel water seperatorand put the motorwell floor in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:31 am
by sharkbait2576
That looks great!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
First coat of bilgecoat. A few more to go.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
I decided on Monstaliner for the anchor locker.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:02 am
by Dan_Smullen
Looking good as always, Clay. Great use for the liner in the anchor locker. That should hold up against dropped anchors and chains better than any paint ever would.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:56 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks Dan.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:19 am
by Jeff
Nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:52 pm
by sharkbait2576
Looking nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:06 am
by TomTom
Great looking build. Am following with anticipation of the launch!

What’s happening with the cross beams clamped between the frames?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:43 pm
by FluidDynamic
They were used to line up the frames on each side. They just held the frames in place so I could tack them to the gunnels.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:28 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have all of the gennel frames in. Need to tape the joints then cut the gunnel cap.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:37 pm
by GuyP
Question on fuel/water separator. I’m getting ready to install my separator in my FS19. Plan to put it in one of the motorwell side compartments (the one with no electrical stuff). Where should the priming bulb go? I’m thinking just before fuel line gets to engine in the open splashwell. I assume you still need one with these new tangled four strokes.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:46 pm
by joe2700
GuyP wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:37 pm Question on fuel/water separator. I’m getting ready to install my separator in my FS19. Plan to put it in one of the motorwell side compartments (the one with no electrical stuff). Where should the priming bulb go? I’m thinking just before fuel line gets to engine in the open splashwell. I assume you still need one with these new tangled four strokes.
I think that's correct because if you get a rigging tube it will have a spot for the fuel line to go in and out of the tube to expose the bulb between the thru hull and the engine.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:43 am
by FluidDynamic
This is what I'm planning to do. My fuel water separator will be mounted to the side of the bilge. Then I will attach the hose with the primer bulb. I think I'll keep the primer bulb in the bilge area as well and put the fuel hose through a rigging tube in the splash well. Ive seen the bulb above and below the splash well. You only need the bulb when you initially prime the new motor or if you run the tank bone dry. That is why I'll keep it out of sight.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:25 am
by swglenn
What motor will you use? My 90HP 4S Mercury recommends not using a primer bulb. The engine installer used a primer bulb for the first start. Some people put the primer bulb on the inlet side of the fuel/water separator so they can fill an empty separator using the bulb. I have been able to mostly fill the separator before I spin it on. The engine fuel lift pump will suck it up and purge the air or maybe it just runs it through the injectors.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
Suzuki 60hp. I'm not sure it will need one either. If it does, it will be in bilge.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:09 pm
by sharkbait2576
I leave mine in the Bahamas sitting for a couple months at a time. Yamaha 150. The four strokes don’t seem to need primed. Mine cranks for 2-3 seconds then starts right up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:10 pm
by sharkbait2576
Because the fuel runs through them they often are the failure part that cuts off the fuel. Just a thought.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:01 pm
by FluidDynamic
I know my 300 verados on my other boat don't have them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:18 pm
by Rogerogrant
I know my 300 verados on my other boat don't have them.
Multiple aspects of that statement make me jealous....
:lol:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
This made me nervous.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
This made me nervous.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:49 am
by fallguy1000
There is a hole in the boat!

I have to cut in ports in mine. Maybe booze will help me.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:56 pm
by sharkbait2576
Those look fantastic!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:46 pm
by FluidDynamic
:doh: Gunnel frame is in on one side of the boat. Boat is getting smaller. Notching the gunnel frames and placing one continuos cleat in the notch made a smoother transition.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:44 am
by Browndog
I really like the way your gunwales are looking. In my opinion, gunwales like the type you are building really set a boat apart and give it that custom look. Plus they are so useful for a place to sit, stand, lean up against and keep people and things in the boat. In use they really don’t intrude on the floor space due to the flare of the hull. Looking Good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:53 am
by TomTom
Looking good. Are those the Gemlux scuppers you just put in?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:04 am
by FluidDynamic
Yes they are 1.5" Gemlux thruhulls with the duckbill inserts. I ordered all Gemlux rod holders, pop-up cleats and thruhulls. I think im going to put rubber plugs in the inside scuppers when I'm in the boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:18 pm
by TomTom
Do Gemlux sell rubber plugs too?

I have always found I ended up plugging the scuppers most of the time at sea and letting a bilge pump do the work and then taking them out on the mooring - I have yet to find a scupper system that really works well so excited to hear your thoughts on these ones ...

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:55 pm
by joe2700
Since the scuppers are just thru hulls with an insert you could just screw one of their ball valves on to each one. I am using the same scuppers and will initially install without a valve/stopper. If I find water comes in while the boat is loaded I plan to just add a ball valve to each one I can close when under way.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:49 am
by FluidDynamic
Gemlux does not make a plug that i'm aware of. I was going to use something like the picture below. I thought about putting a ball valve in as well, but would rather not have to open the bilge when I want to unplug them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:08 pm
by Rover1
Very cool build!
Rover1

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:03 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm a little concerned with separation between my gunnel cleats, frames, and gunnel cap. I may be overthinking this, but I want to make sure that i never have any issues in the future. I have installed my frames above the sole and placed the cleats along the frames and gunnel. I used system three gel magic for the glue and plan on using the same for the gunnel cap adhesion to the cleats. Once the gunnel cap is on I plan to place biaxial over the radius connecting the deck to the coaming pad and also over the radius connecting the gunnel cap to the rub rail. See left drawing on attachment. Will this be sufficient or can I place an additional layer of biaxial between the cleats and the gunnel cap as shown in the drawing on the right? Would this even add any strength or will the cap hold all of the cleats together?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:18 pm
by jacquesmm
I don't see the inwale (sheer clamp) in there. You can skip it if the gunwale sits on top of the rubrail.
Look at the drawing named details. It shows how I propose to build the gunwale.
There are 5 perspective views, step by step.
Built that way, you do not need any fiberglass there.
There is another drawing on that sheet showing how the cap goes over the sheer clamp and over the rubrail.

I guess that you prefer to cover it with glass but that does not mean that you can omit the sheer clamp or the coaming cleat.
Maybe it is present and not included in your sketch? Those cleats are more important than any fiberglass covering.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
It was a bad drawing. I installed as per plans. I guess I was thinking a layer of biaxial would tie the frame cleats and inwhale shear clamps together. If its not needed, then I'll leave it out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:26 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Doesn't seem like it will hurt anything to tab from the rub rail to the inwale with a tab as wide as the cleat at the top of the frame. That will create some tension to hold things more soundly.

Also, I suppose a layer on the bottom of the deck will act the same as a tab once glued to the cleats, rubrail and inwale.

I appreciate your thinking. Other than time and materials, I can't see a detriment to over engineering this part of the boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 pm
by fallguy1000
No need for that. Just make sure your cap is epoxy sealed and sanded with 40-60 grit before you glue it down into thickened epoxy and make sure the base is also precoated to avoid drysuck. Make sure the glue consistency is decent and coverage good.

The only reason to use biaxial in that seam would be if you are bolting two areas together. Or bomting the cap down. A bolt drives out the bonding material and so 1708 is used instead of thickened epoxy to avoid squeezing out all the bonding material.

You may have seen a cracked gunnel cap here on the forums, but that was an entirely different set of issues caused in part by cutting down the frames on the hullsides too far for rod holding. It was not caused by flex in the joint you mentioned.

Build on!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
Ready for gunnel deck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:52 pm
by Fuzz
Very nice! And getting it decked is really going to show off her lines :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:37 am
by fallguy1000
Lookin good.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
I dont think the dimensions from the plans for the gunnel cap would of worked since the beam dimensions are not exactly to spec. They were an inch of two out so I had to improvise. I used poster board to get a cut out so I can trace the caps on the plywood.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 am
by BB Sig
Great idea! :)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 am
by Jeff
Nice progress!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:20 pm
by Fuzz
Me likey....................a lot! Those pangas just have great lines. JM did good with this design. They are all good but to me the pangas are special. :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
Wood is cut.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:16 am
by Jeff
You are doing some great work FluidDynamic!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:52 am
by GuyP
Beautiful lines! Your surf board may be feeling a little disrespected. Take a break and give it a spin.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:42 pm
by FluidDynamic
It will get some love once this project is done. I'll use the left over paint from boat to fix it back up.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
Trying to decide if I should paint under my gunnels. I was thinking since I have to coat them with epoxy, why not just tint the epoxy white or does it even matter to paint under there. You would have to lay down to see under them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:56 pm
by Jeff
I would just tint with Epoxy!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:38 pm
by OrangeQuest
Jeff wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:56 pm I would just tint with Epoxy!!! Jeff
If you have the tint then I agree, just tint and YOU will know it looks nice under them.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:44 pm
by silentneko
I never painted under mine, and haven't seen the undersides of my gunnels on my previous boats since the day I bonded them down. Tint won't hurt anything though.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:56 pm
by FluidDynamic
At least with the tint, I'll know where I've coated.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:04 am
by BB Sig
It will take 3 or 4 coats with tint to get a solid color. The boat is looking good! :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
It was a struggle to get all of the epoxy glue on the cleats before it hardened. Another person mixing would have helped. I made it just in time before it setup too hard. Sanded a radius on the inside and outside of the deck. Its ready for fiberglass after I fill a few holes. Should I use biaxial or cloth tape over the joints?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:56 pm
by fallguy1000
Cloth. One or twl layers of 6 oz depending on if you think it can wear

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:50 am
by OrangeQuest
That is some nice wood working there!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:14 pm
by Jeff
Very nice!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:44 pm
by FluidDynamic
Next will be glassing the decks.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:49 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Yo! I love it! Nice and fair from stem to stern!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:16 pm
by Jeff
Really nice work!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:47 pm
by TomTom
Your build is fantastic! Well done can’t can’t wait to see it in the water

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:49 am
by FluidDynamic
Thanks for the kind words. I have been a little slow this past week and got a little done. I managed to tape one seam on the deck and I also cut out the sides for the console. I borrowed a design that I really liked from another user.
20200804_200612.jpg

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:00 am
by Fuzz
Mighty fine work. I just love the looks of the pangas.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 am
by Jeff
Great work!! She is going to be a beautiful boat!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 am
by Browndog
That is downright Pangalicious!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:05 pm
by jacquesmm
Browndog wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 am That is downright Pangalicious!
:D :D :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:55 pm
by GuyP
Nice, very nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
Seems like I'm at a stage where I can do a little and have to wait.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:37 am
by Jeff
Really well done!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:43 pm
by Dan_Smullen
You’re on a roll, Clay!

Did you cnc cut the console sides? Looks nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:52 pm
by FluidDynamic
No, I just drew them on CAD and printed the template out. Cut them using the template.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:24 pm
by FluidDynamic
I've gotten a lot done, but they are boring pics so I haven't posted much lately. Almost done fairing the gunnel caps, rub rails, and coamings. I think im going to go ahead and prime and paint those before fairing the inside. All I should have left us fairing inside of gunnels and console. Im going to fair the floor, but I'm not going to go crazy with it since I'm putting seadek down anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
More pics

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:27 am
by Jeff
She looks great, I really like your console!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:00 pm
by FluidDynamic
Received some goodies in the mail. Gemlux steering wheel, seastar classic tilt helm, and Suzuki Binnacle kit.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:59 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Now that’s a mail call to look forward to!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:29 am
by Fuzz
Always nice when the bling starts getting put on :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:52 am
by Jeff
Nice!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:39 pm
by FluidDynamic
Motorwell done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:07 am
by Fuzz
Very nice! This is going to be one nice boat.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:11 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Fuzz wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:07 am Very nice! This is going to be one nice boat.
Got that right!

Pretty work Clay!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:03 pm
by FluidDynamic
Motorwell almost faired.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:05 pm
by Jeff
Really well done!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:17 pm
by GuyP
Beautiful

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:38 am
by fallguy1000
Any chance for a closeup of your well drains from inside?

Mine don't drain super well. I couldn't really bottom the drains as well as I wanted due to a radius I faired in...

Now I am wondering if I should put an angle in the bottom so they drain nicer.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:15 pm
by FluidDynamic
I haven't cut the holes yet. I'm worried myself, because I have a radius also. I still have not cut a hole for my drain plug for the same reason. I made the motorwell bottom thick, so when I drill through transom, ill drill into the motorwell bottom to make a depressed area.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
First coat of primer. Two to three more before I start sanding.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:40 pm
by cape man
Looking good!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:48 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Looking good! The transition from the motor well cut out to the gunwale looks sharp!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:19 pm
by fallguy1000
This is what they look like with drains a bit high. Wish I had made a ditch now. Still can, but lots of fairing. My boat has a washdown; eventually. Brand new boat with lotsa dirt.
A4623B99-7C62-413F-85F1-258A3D9AC233.jpeg

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:33 pm
by joe2700
My attempt to solve this problem with my scuppers was to make one side of the thru hull flat to get it much closer to flush with the bottom. It looks like it will work but not launched yet so we'll see in practice. The album below shows the process and how it came out. For the motorwell drain I just did a nice big hole and epoxy coated with no hardware. Only way to get it 100% flush I think.
Imgur Album

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 pm
by FluidDynamic
I did the same with my deck drains.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:26 pm
by FluidDynamic
Coat 2 always looks better. Its ashamed that you have to sand it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:15 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:00 pm
by FluidDynamic
Got my switches in today.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:45 pm
by GuyP
Looking good. Electronics are exciting!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:26 am
by FluidDynamic
I have sanded the primer and will likely have a few spots hear and there to fill before topcoating. Ive also drilled holes for all of my deck hardware and bilge access. Still need to drill my holes for my splashwell drains. Not looking forward to that since I have a radius and they won't likely fit right. Still trying to figure that one out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:35 pm
by BB Sig
Looking good with some bling! :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:46 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:26 am I have sanded the primer and will likely have a few spots hear and there to fill before topcoating. Ive also drilled holes for all of my deck hardware and bilge access. Still need to drill my holes for my splashwell drains. Not looking forward to that since I have a radius and they won't likely fit right. Still trying to figure that one out.

fwiw
I drill after final. Really harder to paint around openings imo.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
It may be, but I'm sick of sanding. I needed something else to do for awhile. Also want to seal the holes with epoxy.

Laid out simrad go7, fusion ra7, switch panel, ignition, binnacle, and tilt steering helm.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:32 pm
by Fuzz
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:19 pm This is what they look like with drains a bit high. Wish I had made a ditch now. Still can, but lots of fairing. My boat has a washdown; eventually. Brand new boat with lotsa dirt.

A4623B99-7C62-413F-85F1-258A3D9AC233.jpeg
Can you drill a hole at the lowest point and then do the fill and drill thing? Might be a way to get it all to drain.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:04 pm
by fallguy1000
Fuzz wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:32 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:19 pm This is what they look like with drains a bit high. Wish I had made a ditch now. Still can, but lots of fairing. My boat has a washdown; eventually. Brand new boat with lotsa dirt.

A4623B99-7C62-413F-85F1-258A3D9AC233.jpeg
Can you drill a hole at the lowest point and then do the fill and drill thing? Might be a way to get it all to drain.
Thanks. Post on my thread p&t. I will post a picture for u.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:46 am
by FluidDynamic
I figured out what I wanted to do with the splashwell drains. I grinded off the bottom of the fitting as others have. I then placed the fitting on the inside of the transom on the bottom of the spashwell. I marked the center and then marked another mark about 1/4" below. I then drilled a pilot hole from the inside on that mark.. On the rear if the transom, I used the pilot hole to line of the hole saw. I then drilled through the transom and into the bottom of the splashwell by about an 1/2 inch. Then i used a grinder to cut out the radius so the thruhull would fit flat on the transom. I used a dremel to smooth everything out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:46 pm
by GuyP
Looking good. That flattened side should work nicely. I just installed the typical flared brass tube. I just installed one to starboard side splash well without a ditch. With the 25 inch transom I doubt I’ll have very frequent back splash. It will live under a roof when not actively running the lake.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:13 pm
by OneWayTraffic
That looks nice but a lot of work. A simple hole drilled and sealed with epoxy would have worked as well imo.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:07 pm
by FluidDynamic
It only took 10 minutes. Whole boat is alot more work than I ever imagined.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:21 pm
by sharkbait2576
Looking fantastic!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:48 pm
by Jeff
Agree, very nice!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:06 am
by FluidDynamic
1st of 3 to 4 coats of Alexseal on the rail and deck. Can still see some primer Gray through the first coat. Gonna gave to clean the hell out of the garage before the final coat goes on.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:52 am
by OneWayTraffic
Maybe it's just the camera magic, but that looks perfect already.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:51 am
by Jeff
Looks great!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:38 am
by FluidDynamic
Lot of dust in the paint. I got in a rush and didn't clean the garage before the first coat. There are a few spots that I noticed that I will definitely have to fill. Some pin holes that I didn't notice in the primer. I rolled the hull previously with Alexseal which I was really happy with. They just came out with a rolling additive which I used. It really flattens out and pops all of the bubbles. For someone that has never painted a boat, I have been extremely happy with the product. Roll it on, slowly back roll it, and forget it. Come out in the garage the next morning and it looks like glass. THe only issues is dust which I'll have to quit being lazy and clean everything up.

The part I'm dreading is sanding the overlap between the old and new paint. I'll have to compound that area to bring the shine back. I hope it blends well. I've seen it done on YouTube and it looks great with this paint.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:22 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:38 am Lot of dust in the paint. I got in a rush and didn't clean the garage before the first coat. There are a few spots that I noticed that I will definitely have to fill. Some pin holes that I didn't notice in the primer. I rolled the hull previously with Alexseal which I was really happy with. They just came out with a rolling additive which I used. It really flattens out and pops all of the bubbles. For someone that has never painted a boat, I have been extremely happy with the product. Roll it on, slowly back roll it, and forget it. Come out in the garage the next morning and it looks like glass. THe only issues is dust which I'll have to quit being lazy and clean everything up.

The part I'm dreading is sanding the overlap between the old and new paint. I'll have to compound that area to bring the shine back. I hope it blends well. I've seen it done on YouTube and it looks great with this paint.
Please post your overlap sanding experience. I want to see it.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'll post before and after pics once the last coat goes on and it cures for abit. My plan is to sand it up to 800 or 1000 grit and then compound it. Alexseal is repairable.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:41 pm
by Dan_Smullen
FluidDynamic wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:38 am For someone that has never painted a boat, I have been extremely happy with the product. Roll it on, slowly back roll it, and forget it. Come out in the garage the next morning and it looks like glass. THe only issues is dust which I'll have to quit being lazy and clean everything up.
Looking sweet for sure!

The Alexseal rep told me that suspending plastic over the work, rather than a full tent, will prevent a lot of dust from settling in the paint.

Great results with the roller for sure.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
When I painted the exterior hull, I didn't have too much of a dust issue. Ill just have to clean like I did before and wet the floor. That helps with stirring up dust when walking around boat to paint. Just got lazy thus time.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:42 pm
by cape_fisherman
Before you finish paint, wet down the floor.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:54 pm
by FluidDynamic
Taping everything for the nonskid on the deck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:02 pm
by Dan_Smullen
All those for rod holders, Clay?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:53 am
by TomTom
Great looking build!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:41 am
by FluidDynamic
Rod holders, pop-up cleats and the fuel fill.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:52 pm
by FluidDynamic
I like this better.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:10 pm
by FluidDynamic
Kiwigrip applied.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:54 pm
by Jeff
Very nice FD!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:06 am
by FluidDynamic
Nonskid done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:34 am
by Jeff
Very nice!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:56 am
by gstanfield
Absolutely! That is very clean work.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:50 pm
by FluidDynamic
Kinda hard to see. This is the before and after for the paint overlap. I wet sanded the transition and then compounded with totalbuff and a foam pad. First is the before and second is after.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:16 am
by gstanfield
Oooooooo..... shiny!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:05 pm
by TomW1
gstanfield wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:16 am Oooooooo..... shiny!
Glad to see your back :D How are the kids and you still with the sheriffs department.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm
by gstanfield
TomW1 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:05 pm
gstanfield wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:16 am Oooooooo..... shiny!
Glad to see your back :D How are the kids and you still with the sheriffs department.

Tom
Kids are great, the twins got a little brother for their 3rd birthday so I now have two girls 12 and a boy that's 9. I left the SO a few years back, had some health issues and was offered to cash out my retirement without penalty as an "early retirement lump sum" so I took it and went back to restoring antique cars, teaching motorcycle classes and working in my friend's machine shop. I'm too busy a person to work one job, I go crazy with "spare time"! I've built a few small craft from other designers and decided to build another FL14 so I'm back here. It's good to see that you're still around, taking care of No Excuse. I'll be passing by your way in December as I take the family to my paren't place in Toccoa, GA for Christmas. We're stopping in Gatlinburg for a day on the 19th of December then headed down 441 to 23 and down to my folk's place. If you see a van with Wyoming plates be sure to wave!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:52 am
by TomW1
gstanfield wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm
TomW1 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:05 pm
gstanfield wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:16 am Oooooooo..... shiny!
Glad to see your back :D How are the kids and you still with the sheriffs department.

Tom
Kids are great, the twins got a little brother for their 3rd birthday so I now have two girls 12 and a boy that's 9. I left the SO a few years back, had some health issues and was offered to cash out my retirement without penalty as an "early retirement lump sum" so I took it and went back to restoring antique cars, teaching motorcycle classes and working in my friend's machine shop. I'm too busy a person to work one job, I go crazy with "spare time"! I've built a few small craft from other designers and decided to build another FL14 so I'm back here. It's good to see that you're still around, taking care of No Excuse. I'll be passing by your way in December as I take the family to my paren't place in Toccoa, GA for Christmas. We're stopping in Gatlinburg for a day on the 19th of December then headed down 441 to 23 and down to my folk's place. If you see a van with Wyoming plates be sure to wave!
Well dang you will be going right by me. I would love to meet you there is a McDonald's in Cherokee on 441 that we could meet at if you want. It may be better to do it after your visit with your folks as I am having shoulder replacement surgery on Nov. 16. Give me a call 828 488 6840 if you want to. Toccoa is a beautiful area enjoy your time there.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:51 am
by gstanfield
TomW1 wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:52 am
gstanfield wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm
TomW1 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:05 pm

Glad to see your back :D How are the kids and you still with the sheriffs department.

Tom
Kids are great, the twins got a little brother for their 3rd birthday so I now have two girls 12 and a boy that's 9. I left the SO a few years back, had some health issues and was offered to cash out my retirement without penalty as an "early retirement lump sum" so I took it and went back to restoring antique cars, teaching motorcycle classes and working in my friend's machine shop. I'm too busy a person to work one job, I go crazy with "spare time"! I've built a few small craft from other designers and decided to build another FL14 so I'm back here. It's good to see that you're still around, taking care of No Excuse. I'll be passing by your way in December as I take the family to my paren't place in Toccoa, GA for Christmas. We're stopping in Gatlinburg for a day on the 19th of December then headed down 441 to 23 and down to my folk's place. If you see a van with Wyoming plates be sure to wave!
Well dang you will be going right by me. I would love to meet you there is a McDonald's in Cherokee on 441 that we could meet at if you want. It may be better to do it after your visit with your folks as I am having shoulder replacement surgery on Nov. 16. Give me a call XXXXXX if you want to. Toccoa is a beautiful area enjoy your time there.
I saved your number in my phone so you can delete it from the post if you'd like. I will certainly give you a call and best wishes on your shoulder surgery.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:18 am
by gstanfield
FluidDynamic: Pardon us for the momentary thread-jacking. Your build is looking fantastic and I certainly don't want to take away from that. 8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 am
by FluidDynamic
No Problem

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:04 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:29 am No Problem
Also sorry haven't seen Stan on the Forum in a long time thanks for your patience. Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:21 pm
by FluidDynamic
I epoxied the rope rub rail on. Ill let this side cure before I wrap it around the other side.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:47 am
by cape man
Nice!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:30 am
by Jeff
Nice!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 pm
by FluidDynamic
Tape pulled.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:49 pm
by gstanfield
Beautiful!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:53 pm
by Jeff
Again, beautiful work!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:17 am
by cracked_ribs
Man, that looks fantastic.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:19 am
by TomW1
That is outstanding!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am
by fallguy1000
Wjat the heck is the poltergeist on the wall?

Looks great. Boat is long.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:19 am
by cape man
Man, that gives such a classic look!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:48 am
by BB Sig
fallguy1000 wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am Wjat the heck is the poltergeist on the wall?

Looks great. Boat is long.
:lol: :lol: I'm guessing the wife's decorations!

Great looking boat. I love the rubrail! :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:58 am
by FluidDynamic
Lol. My wifes holiday decorations that are covered in fiberglass dust.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:06 pm
by Fuzz
Like the others have said the boat looks great! You have about a month before the dust had better be off the wife's stuff :help:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:52 pm
by Cowbro
FD,

Do you have any more info on how you did the rope rub rail? I like the look and think it could look good on my HMD19. Any idea what durability is like?

Phil

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:15 pm
by TomTom
Gorgeous looking build. I fished today on a friend’s 19 foot Yamaha Panga with a 50 HP Yamaha 4 stroke. We fished 7 hours including running 8 miles and trolling lures and pulling live baits and we burnt 3.5 gallons of fuel! Just amazing! I am sure you are gonna get a lot of fun out of yours

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:42 pm
by FluidDynamic
[quote=Cowbro post_id=480271 time=1603936336 user_id=82488]
FD,

Do you have any more info on how you did the rope rub rail? I like the look and think it could look good on my HMD19. Any idea what durability is like?

Phil

Before I rounded over the rubrail, I used a router with a cove bit to route the cove. It would have been difficult to do once it was rounded. I then of course placed a layer ofcepoxy over the rail including the cove. Primed, painted the rail, and then sanded just the cove before I epoxied the rope in the cove. Make sure you buy a rope that is uv stable and water proof. I used 1.5" unmanilla rope from ropeandcord.com. I thought of using the synthetic hemp rope, but it looked like it freys easily. The unmailla is hard. I figured bumping into things it would last and look better longer. When it wears out, ill just replace it for $100. You can see the cove in the pic. The line you see below the rub rail in the paint job was sanded and buffed out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:49 pm
by FluidDynamic
Cowbro wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:52 pm FD,

Do you have any more info on how you did the rope rub rail? I like the look and think it could look good on my HMD19. Any idea what durability is like?

Phil

Before I rounded over the rubrail on the top, I used a router with a cove bit to route the cove. It would have been difficult to do once it was rounded. I then of course placed a layer ofcepoxy over the rail including the cove. Primed, painted the rail, and then sanded just the cove before I epoxied the rope in the cove with fast cure total boat cartridges. Make sure you buy a rope that is uv stable and water proof. I used 1.5" unmanilla rope from ropeandcord.com. I thought of using the synthetic hemp rope, but it looked like it freys easily. The unmailla is hard. I figured bumping into things it would last and look better longer. When it wears out, ill just replace it for $100. You can see the cove in the pic. The line you see below the rub rail in the paint job was sanded and buffed out

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
TomTom wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:15 pm Gorgeous looking build. I fished today on a friend’s 19 foot Yamaha Panga with a 50 HP Yamaha 4 stroke. We fished 7 hours including running 8 miles and trolling lures and pulling live baits and we burnt 3.5 gallons of fuel! Just amazing! I am sure you are gonna get a lot of fun out of yours
Its going to be used alot. I'll have it on a lift so I can put it in the water and go. Ive got a large center console, but I'll use this more.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:09 pm
by cracked_ribs
Cowbro wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:52 pm I like the look and think it could look good on my HMD19.
I think that would look great on your HMD19 - it's a very classic look. I had been thinking about doing the same for my next boat, actually - simple, cheap, durable, timeless.

I think the usual thing guys do is bolt a piece of angle iron (or aluminum, more likely) to a router and just walk it along to get that cove cut FD shows.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:17 pm
by Cowbro
cracked_ribs wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:09 pm
Cowbro wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:52 pm I like the look and think it could look good on my HMD19.
I think that would look great on your HMD19 - it's a very classic look. I had been thinking about doing the same for my next boat, actually - simple, cheap, durable, timeless.

I think the usual thing guys do is bolt a piece of angle iron (or aluminum, more likely) to a router and just walk it along to get that cove cut FD shows.
Yeah, machining the cove is no big deal. I am definitely going to keep it in my storage chest of ideas.

FD,
Thanks for the details on the rope. Your Panga is turning out awesome!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:57 pm
by FluidDynamic
Been working on the console.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:26 am
by fallguy1000
Is that a chair in front?

I'd put a 10 degree angle on the seat to make it 90-100.

A flat seat is hard to stay in if you get a chopor hit a wake. But you can also have the cushions made fat in front to support the rider.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:34 am
by Jeff
Nice work on your console!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:27 pm
by FluidDynamic
It is a chair, there is a slight angle towards console, but hard to see in pics.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:59 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:27 pm It is a chair, there is a slight angle towards console, but hard to see in pics.
I mean the base of the chair should be at 10 degrees versus 0. If you have it all done; get a custom cushion made and have them add thicker foam to the chair front. Same result. Otherwise, the chair is a slider..

I see the back. That part is good.

On my boat, I am going with the foam option versus the angle.

The foam in the front of this bench is 1" thicker. Just enough to keep you from sliding forward.
BB92353C-0D8C-4F28-81C9-816AFAB80116.png

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
The console is a little more time consuming than I originally thought. Still pushing ahead.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:19 pm
by FluidDynamic
More photos

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:05 am
by Jeff
Nice console!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:24 pm
by cape man
Looks awesome. It is a bit of a surprise how long the "other things" take to get how you want them. Build on!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
Absolutely. One of the most time consuming things is fairing inside radii.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:14 pm
by FluidDynamic
Small pieces at a time. I feel like this thing is never going to be done. Can't wait until I dont use epoxy products anymore.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:38 pm
by cape man
You will miss epoxy. 8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 pm
by FluidDynamic
Center console is done except for putting on door.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:51 am
by cape man
Amazing design and execution.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:46 am
by Jeff
Very well done!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:27 pm
by Coach
Those last few pics make me wonder how beautiful that cockpit would look if it were cedar brightwork!
Against the white that could be a great combination for the sole and in-wale.
Well done Sir!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:00 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm definitely putting down the faux teak seadek on the sole or a different brand. Boat will always be covered under roof on boathouse.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:16 pm
by GuyP
Beautiful overall finish and console. Saw the Suzuki key. What size year model?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:34 pm
by FluidDynamic
2021 white Suzuki 60hp. Another pic after door and sun installed.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:38 pm
by cape_fisherman
Cool little console! Not a fan of that door.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:04 pm
by Jeff
Nice work FD!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:41 pm
by FluidDynamic
cape_fisherman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:38 pm Cool little console! Not a fan of that door.
I'm not a fan of the color. Boat outfitters sent me the wrong shade of white and I didn't realize it until it was already installed. They are remaking the door and sending another out.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:45 pm
by FluidDynamic
I'm getting ready to put this boat on a trailer. I would like to use the straps and chain falls to lift the boat off the cradle, slide the cradle out and then push the trailer under the boat. I'm wondering can I still lift the boat as I did before. The boat weighs a lot more now than it did when I flipped it. See pic below for where the straps would be placed.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:32 pm
by jacquesmm
Yes as long as there is a cross beam where the straps are going to push on the sides.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:52 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thanks. Good to know.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:02 pm
by FluidDynamic
Boat is wired except transducer and under gunnel lights.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:28 am
by cape man
Very clean and professional job on the wiring. I'll never post a picture of the inside of my console! :help:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:30 am
by OrangeQuest
Wiring looks very nice inside the console!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:31 am
by OrangeQuest
cape man wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:28 am Very clean and professional job on the wiring. I'll never post a picture of the inside of my console! :help:
I have not even built my console yet but was thinking the same about not posting pictures after it is done. LOL

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:19 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:39 pm
by Fuzz
I have a soft spot for the Pangas but yours is REALLY nice :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:34 am
by Bogieman
Nice !

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:31 am
by fallguy1000
Really taking shape. It looks great.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:13 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Hey, Clay. Q&A time if you have a minute.

I went way back to page 59 to see your plumbing. Did you use 3" PVC? How many skinny runs to you run up forward? Looked like 1 @ 1.5" and a few smaller. What are the smaller ones for?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
Yes, I used 3" electrical. I'm glad I did. It was still hard to get all the wiring through them. Once you have a few wires in the tubes, the harder it is to get the wire fish through it. Still have the control cables, hydraulic hoses, and the motor wires. I'm sure they will all fit, but it's going to be hard.

The 1.5" tube on right is for the fuel line. The tube on far left wasn't used. I'm not sure what I was thinking. The tube that meanders away from centerline was for the gas tank grounding wire and the two wires for the fuel sending unit. The bigger white tube that is going through front bulkhead into the anchor locker is for bow lighting. The smaller white tube that runs down the entire center line of the boat is to drain the anchor locker.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:18 am
by FluidDynamic
Primer on inside. 3rd coat. Also cut the patterns to send off for faux teak foam flooring.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:43 am
by cracked_ribs
Boy, that is quite a work of art.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:32 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work!!!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:54 am
by fallguy1000
Lookin good. I am using faux teak Seadek in the cabin, but wall to wall, so I am cutting it myself.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:22 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Beautiful!

What do you have in mind for finish of the sole where not covered with SeaDek?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:43 pm
by FluidDynamic
The entire sole will be covered with an alternative to Seadek. I have a friend on a Facebook group that bought a company out that does seadek type floors. He's cutting the floors for me. His company is called maxxtread.com. The pic I uploaded only shows the pattern for the front deck.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
Finally painted inside the gunnels. I Still need to do a final sanding and one last coat.. About to wrap this thing up. Flooring and the motor is what's left. I ordered the motor two months ago and there is still no eta.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:02 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic if you want I can work up what prop you need like I did for GuyP and his FS19 and others. Let me know what motor you are getting and I will let you know the numbers I need from you. You have a really sharp looking PG20. :D

Regards, Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 am
by FluidDynamic
TomW1 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:02 pm FluidDynamic if you want I can work up what prop you need like I did for GuyP and his FS19 and others. Let me know what motor you are getting and I will let you know the numbers I need from you. You have a really sharp looking PG20. :D

Regards, Tom
Sure. Suzuki 60 hp. It may be 2 or 3 months until I receive the motor. There seams to be a large demand for outboards, larger than production can keep up with. California is also not cooperating with ships entering the ports.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:35 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 am
TomW1 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:02 pm FluidDynamic if you want I can work up what prop you need like I did for GuyP and his FS19 and others. Let me know what motor you are getting and I will let you know the numbers I need from you. You have a really sharp looking PG20. :D

Regards, Tom
Sure. Suzuki 60 hp. It may be 2 or 3 months until I receive the motor. There seams to be a large demand for outboards, larger than production can keep up with. California is also not cooperating with ships entering the ports.
Okay, I will start working on it once you provide the following: I will start with the Plans weight of 1000lbs and add from there. I really like Suzuki's. :D

Any additions you made to your Panga that added weight over the 1000lbs:
Average number of passengers and there weight:
Gas amount:
Water in bait tank:
Coolers and Ice:
I will then add for additional gear 100 lbs. to finish the up what Jacques has started.
I will also add an other 100 lbs. for fishing gear and tackle, food and drinks or maybe a little more depending how many people you are taking out.
Finally I will add the weight of the Suzuki. I will take it from there specs as I need other specs from them.
Well those are the basics if I need anything else I will let you know.

No rush, do it when your ready.

Regards, Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:46 pm
by FluidDynamic
TomW1 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:35 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 am
TomW1 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:02 pm FluidDynamic if you want I can work up what prop you need like I did for GuyP and his FS19 and others. Let me know what motor you are getting and I will let you know the numbers I need from you. You have a really sharp looking PG20. :D

Regards, Tom
Sure. Suzuki 60 hp. It may be 2 or 3 months until I receive the motor. There seams to be a large demand for outboards, larger than production can keep up with. California is also not cooperating with ships entering the ports.
Okay, I will start working on it once you provide the following: I will start with the Plans weight of 1000lbs and add from there. I really like Suzuki's. :D

Any additions you made to your Panga that added weight over the 1000lbs:
Average number of passengers and there weight:
Gas amount:
Water in bait tank:
Coolers and Ice:
I will then add for additional gear 100 lbs. to finish the up what Jacques has started.
I will also add an other 100 lbs. for fishing gear and tackle, food and drinks or maybe a little more depending how many people you are taking out.
Finally I will add the weight of the Suzuki. I will take it from there specs as I need other specs from them.
Well those are the basics if I need anything else I will let you know.

No rush, do it when your ready.

Regards, Tom
Any additions you made to your Panga that added weight over the 1000lbs: I think it will be 100 pounds for extra cloth inside and double cloth tape on inside. Also an extra 100 pounds for console, gas tank, steering wheel, helm, binnacle, radio, mfd.
Average number of passengers and there weight: 2 at 190 each.
Gas amount: 17 gallons
Water in bait tank: n/a
Coolers and Ice: 25 lbs

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:11 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:46 pm
TomW1 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:35 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 am
Sure. Suzuki 60 hp. It may be 2 or 3 months until I receive the motor. There seams to be a large demand for outboards, larger than production can keep up with. California is also not cooperating with ships entering the ports.
Okay, I will start working on it once you provide the following: I will start with the Plans weight of 1000lbs and add from there. I really like Suzuki's. :D

Any additions you made to your Panga that added weight over the 1000lbs:
Average number of passengers and there weight:
Gas amount:
Water in bait tank:
Coolers and Ice:
I will then add for additional gear 100 lbs. to finish the up what Jacques has started.
I will also add an other 100 lbs. for fishing gear and tackle, food and drinks or maybe a little more depending how many people you are taking out.
Finally I will add the weight of the Suzuki. I will take it from there specs as I need other specs from them.
Well those are the basics if I need anything else I will let you know.

No rush, do it when your ready.

Regards, Tom
Any additions you made to your Panga that added weight over the 1000lbs: I think it will be 100 pounds for extra cloth inside and double cloth tape on inside. Also an extra 100 pounds for console, gas tank, steering wheel, helm, binnacle, radio, mfd.
Average number of passengers and there weight: 2 at 190 each.
Gas amount: 17 gallons
Water in bait tank: n/a
Coolers and Ice: 25 lbs
Okay I will probably have something for you tomorrow afternoon, nice to be retired and able to help you guys. :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:26 pm
by TomW1
Well it is early afternoon and here we go.

Your boat will weight 2186lbs plus or minus a little
1000 PG20
150 added weight
102 fuel 100*6
0 water
175 gear 1 add on from what Jacquce started prop, hardware, electronics lockers etc.
125 gear 2 fishing gear, safety gear, etc.
380 people 2 @ 190
25 1 cooler + ice
229 60HP Suziki 2.27 gear ratio max rpms 6300

2186 Total

The prop you will need is an 11 x 11. I actually came up with an 11 x 10.6 but the 11 x 11 should get you close to 6000 rpms which is close to your mac 6300 rpms. Top speed will be in the low 30's. I would suggest going wilt a prop from Powertech Props if the first is not right on they will exchange it for only $75. I know of one guy who spent $2000 getting the right prop. I looked at the PT props that they recommend for 60HP motors and suggest the NReb at 10.375 dia x 12 pitch which also works in my model, or what ever diameter and pitch they suggest around that range. They are good people and will get you the right prop. https://www.ptprop.com/c-class-propellers1.html If you want to go to a dealer in your area there are ones in Mobile(George's Water Sports), Fairhope(Gulf Coast Marine} and Stapleton(L&M Marine). The map from PT had you right in the center of all 3. :D

Rerads, Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
Thank you for your help.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:35 pm
by TomW1
Your welcome, once you get it on and up to max rpm's let me know what it is doing and I can recommend any adjustment if needed. Suzuki's have a good break in period, so you won't be able to take it up to full throttle right away. I just went through this with on GuyP's FS19 and Suzuki 90, fortunately I hit the right prop head on.

Well good luck when you get your motor and the break in period. Your boat is one of my favorites of those built, nicely done. :D

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am
by FluidDynamic
Just got quoted $2000 for a custom boat cover. Seams a little high to me. My foam flooring patters are on the way tomorrow for me to test to make sure everything fits. Once I give the go ahead, they will cut them and ship to me. The only thing I'll have left then after that is to put the boat on the trailer and get the motor installed.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:38 am
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am Just got quoted $2000 for a custom boat cover. Seams a little high to me. My foam flooring patters are on the way tomorrow for me to test to make sure everything fits. Once I give the go ahead, they will cut them and ship to me. The only thing I'll have left then after that is to put the boat on the trailer and get the motor installed.
That is a bit high. I had a cover made for my 16' boat and it was 700. I figure $1500 should be plenty for your boat unless they are charging tons for reinforcements around all those rod holders!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 am
by Jeff
FD, $2K seems quite high for your cover!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
My motor came in today. I plan on putting the boat on the trailer this weekend and dropping the boat off at the dealer Monday morning.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:17 pm
by Jeff
Congrats FD!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:23 pm
by FluidDynamic
It floats.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:47 pm
by Dan_Smullen
I bet it feels as good as she looks!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:27 pm
by cape man
Of course it floats! 8)

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:11 pm
by Fuzz
Man oh man that is a good looking boat :!:
No matter what your head tells you it brings joy to the heart the first time your baby floats :wink:

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:26 pm
by fallguy1000
What fun!

Bit nervous about making my splash now. Electrical and systems are really complex.

I gotta keep workin on what I know...fairing and glasswork...

Boat is a beauty.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:27 pm
by cracked_ribs
What a beauty! Congrats on that milestone.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:41 pm
by Jeff
FD, beautiful boat!!!! Please send me some photos once you have her motor and in the water!! I will use her for the main photo on the website!! Again, great job!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
Will do.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:18 pm
by FluidDynamic
I may have made a huge mistake. Fixable but a pain. The motorwell bottom is only 3.5" deep from the motorwell to top of transom. The dealer is concerned along with me that the steering cylinder may hit the motorwell bottom when you tilt the motor. If I can't tilt the motor enough to get the prop out of the water, then I may have to cut the motorwell bottom out and lower it. Would a jack plate work? There's one that only has a 4" offset from transom. Not sure if that would affect cog by that much as I do have the fuel tank up front and the console a little forward. A jack plate would be useful. Hopefully I have enough tilt and I want have to do anything. Will know in a day or two. If I can get the prop above the bottom of the boat, I think I'll be happy with it. The boat will be on a lift and I'll never sell it..the Suzuki motor also has a tilt trim setting to limit the travel.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:21 pm
by Fuzz
Take a 50lb sack of sand and set it in the splash well. If the boat still looks and runs good then a 4 inch set back will not hurt you. Are you thinking of a manual set back or a hydraulic one?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:36 pm
by FluidDynamic
Hydraulic. The whole system weighs 23 pounds. I like the idea of having a jack plate. The motor can be raised and if need the motor could be fully tilted. Also run in shallower water.

The boat is rated for 50 to 70. I have the lightest 60 on the market. A suzuki 70 weighs 343 pounds while the 60 weighs 229 pounds.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:57 am
by TomW1
A 4" setback jack plate with a 5-6" lift should be fine. Doing the math 4" or .333ft x 226.lbs is 75.33lbs that you need to move forward of the LCG and it sounds like you have already done that with the gas tank and console.

Remember since you don't have a tunnel you won't be able to raise it to far when on the water under power. The set back will help a little.

Good luck.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:48 pm
by TomW1
FluidDynamic I am pulling my hair out right now. I went back and checked your numbers in my prop calcs and found I made a mistake. The prop you need is a 11.75 x 14 or a 12.25 x13. I am so sorry hope you have not bought a prop yet. I would probably go with the 11.75 x 14.

Again I don't usually don't make a mistake like this. So since you have the Suzuki you have a good long break in time to see what you need.

Again sorry I didn't catch this sooner, Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:46 pm
by FluidDynamic
I have not ordered prop yet. No problem. Thanks fir your help. They will swop them out anyway.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 pm
by FluidDynamic
Good news. The motor is mounted and I have full tilt trim. They are still doing some wiring, but everything's looking good for Friday. The stainless prop is on backorder, but I may just put an aluminum on for now so I can start breaking the motor in.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:08 pm
by Dan_Smullen
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 pm Good news. The motor is mounted and I have full tilt trim. They are still doing some wiring, but everything's looking good for Friday. The stainless prop is on backorder, but I may just put an aluminum on for now so I can start breaking the motor in.
High level of stoke!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:39 pm
by Jeff
Congrats again FD!!!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:24 pm
by VT_Jeff
FluidDynamic wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 pm Good news. The motor is mounted and I have full tilt trim. They are still doing some wiring, but everything's looking good for Friday. The stainless prop is on backorder, but I may just put an aluminum on for now so I can start breaking the motor in.
Huge!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 am
by cape man
I started with an aluminum on the new motor which gave me what I needed to know to get the right stainless. I now have a spare prop on board.
Great news on the tilt working.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:56 pm
by TomW1
Great news, it never hurts to have a spare prop. I have an aluminum one also.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:27 pm
by FluidDynamic
My motor was installed, but my dealer ordered a 11.6x12 prop. I put the boat in the water and used that prop for the first 3 hour break in period. I'll definitely need to change props to the 11.75 x 14 (TomW1 was correct) as the rev limiter was coming on at 30 mph. I still had a little throttle left, but could not push it any further. I found an aluminum 11.6x14 that will be in before Friday. Will test it again then. Overall, the boat rides great. It turns well and is stable. It is a weight sensitive boat since it is so narrow, but this was expected. Three people on one side of the boat is a no go when drifting. Once underway, people can move about the boat with no issues. There is no bow lift. It pretty much rides at the same level throughout the speed ranges. I didn't test it any anything other than crossing boat wakes yet. It slices through the wakes with ease and doesn't pound at any speeds. It planes at 15 mph. Overall, I'm extremely happy with the way it performs. I was worried about the self bailing aspect and even with two people standing in the back of the boat, water still does not come in the scuppers. I think the lightweight Suzuki helps with that. I thought I was going to need some rubber plugs on the inside to not let water in, but I don't think I need them. Pics to follow.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:30 pm
by FluidDynamic
Pics

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:32 pm
by FluidDynamic
Pics

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm
by FluidDynamic
Link to video of first ride after breaking it in for initial 3.5 hours.
https://youtube.com/shorts/dLCzKcnuVKQ?feature=share

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:02 pm
by Jeff
Beautiful work FD!! email me some photos to jeff@boatbuildercentral.com

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 pm
by Coach
Wow! Have to say I am a bit envious! Great work...she is a beauty!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:11 pm
by FluidDynamic
Jeff wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:02 pm Beautiful work FD!! email me some photos to jeff@boatbuildercentral.com
I'm still working on some good pictures in the water.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:43 pm
by Jeff
No rush FD!!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:23 pm
by Fuzz
I would think you have to try very hard to take a bad picture of that thing from any angle :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:54 am
by cape man
She is a beautiful thing! Have you picked a name?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:44 am
by TomW1
FD your boat is a beauty. Like the white Suzuki on her. Glad to be a help on the prop.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:08 pm
by FluidDynamic
Another pic of the flooring. I used a company called Maxxtread.com. Very easy to deal with and a great product. On another note, I tested out the 11.6x14 prop today. I'm hitting 34 mph with 6300 rpm. I think I need to go up one more pitch. I'm not sure if they make a 11.6x15. Will have to look. Any suggestions Tom?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:53 pm
by FluidDynamic
cape man wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:54 am She is a beautiful thing! Have you picked a name?
I keep my boats simple with no name.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:34 pm
by Matthew Anderson
Beautiful boat! Well done.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:15 pm
by fallguy1000
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:53 pm
cape man wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:54 am She is a beautiful thing! Have you picked a name?
I keep my boats simple with no name.
Just curious. How would you call the CG without a name?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:37 pm
by Jaysen
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:15 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:53 pm
cape man wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:54 am She is a beautiful thing! Have you picked a name?
I keep my boats simple with no name.
Just curious. How would you call the CG without a name?
I’ve been told that using registration numbers is the answer. Lots of “small craft” here have no name. More than a few don’t even have radios. They rely on cell phones. CG always comments on that when they rescue someone that had to wait for a Good Samaritan because salt water and cell phones are mortal enemies.

Of course vhf radios that are a fixed to an underwater hull aren’t all that useful either.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:57 pm
by fallguy1000
Jaysen wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:37 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:15 pm
FluidDynamic wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:53 pm

I keep my boats simple with no name.
Just curious. How would you call the CG without a name?
I’ve been told that using registration numbers is the answer. Lots of “small craft” here have no name. More than a few don’t even have radios. They rely on cell phones. CG always comments on that when they rescue someone that had to wait for a Good Samaritan because salt water and cell phones are mortal enemies.

Of course vhf radios that are a fixed to an underwater hull aren’t all that useful either.
I have this vision of me frantically calling the CG and trying to remember the numbers which I do not know.. They are on the outside of the hull. I suppose from a swimming position. Got the decal inside as well.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:37 pm
by VT_Jeff
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:57 pm
Jaysen wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:37 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:15 pm

Just curious. How would you call the CG without a name?
I’ve been told that using registration numbers is the answer. Lots of “small craft” here have no name. More than a few don’t even have radios. They rely on cell phones. CG always comments on that when they rescue someone that had to wait for a Good Samaritan because salt water and cell phones are mortal enemies.

Of course vhf radios that are a fixed to an underwater hull aren’t all that useful either.
I have this vision of me frantically calling the CG and trying to remember the numbers which I do not know.. They are on the outside of the hull. I suppose from a swimming position. Got the decal inside as well.

Securite securite securite

This is sv.............hang on......................break.........................securite securite securite, this is sv.............VT 5...........is that a zero or O?...............nm, I'll just use the phone. Over.


I dont have a name on the back of my boat, but it has a name, which I use when crossing into canada and back, and that's about it. If you go with a us reg I think you have to have the name on the back visible from some distance plus the hailing port.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:36 pm
by FluidDynamic
My offshore boat I have a handheld vhf and fixed vhf, 2 epirbs, and life raft. I have no name on it either. Most boats don't in our area unless there big sport fishers. I would use the registration number and color of boat(yellow) if I had to call cg. If I'm calling the cg, I've probably already used my epirb.

This boat I will just use a handheld vhf.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:02 am
by fallguy1000
Thanks all. Sorry FD. I have a 16' skiff and I always wondered how I'd call the CG, even if for someone else. Giving my name as blue Lund seemed odd.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:15 pm
by cape man
The Coast guard rescues people, not boats. Give them your name.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:35 am
by FluidDynamic
I tested the 11.6x14 prop out again with one adult and a ice chest. It is the right prop for those conditions. When I'm by myself with an ice chest, it is borderline teeter totting above 6300 rpm.

I also ran the boat in a 1 to 2 foot chop head sea and following sea and the boat rode great. No pounding or walking. I'm really impressed with how it drives.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:29 pm
by Fuzz
Great report! The one thing panga builders all seem to say is they are like driving a sports car :D

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:37 pm
by TomW1
FD if your running up against the rev limiters with the 11.6x14 aluminum you might want to go up to an 11x15 SS but see what you get with the one you have ordered. I think you said you said you can exchange it. A SS is more efficient than an aluminum prop. I had someone get into my computer and block me from using it for a week.

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:35 pm
by FluidDynamic
Put the finishing touch on.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:35 pm
by FluidDynamic
I do have to give credit for the designer on the boat. Everywhere I go, I get asked what kind of boat it is and comments on how beautiful it is. The lines on the design are incredible. I've even had people wave me down going down the road and ask questions about the boat.

All I did was follow the plans.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:13 am
by gtcoupe
That is one beautiful boat!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:38 am
by Fuzz
Hate to disagree but I think you did just a tad more than follow the plans.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:24 am
by Jeff
Absolutely beautiful FD!!!!!! Congrats on a great boat!! Jeff

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:37 pm
by TomW1
A real work of beauty FD! You have something to be very proud of! :D

Tom

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:53 pm
by Coach
Looks Awesome!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:03 pm
by cape man
Between what Coach did with his SC16 and what you did here, I'm looking at sea deck much harder for any new boat or if I ever redeck one of mine. That Triple Tail and name on the cooler is just awesome! Who cut that for you?

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:49 pm
by Browndog
The Tripletail is da bomb!

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:17 pm
by FluidDynamic
cape man wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:03 pm Between what Coach did with his SC16 and what you did here, I'm looking at sea deck much harder for any new boat or if I ever redeck one of mine. That Triple Tail and name on the cooler is just awesome! Who cut that for you?
A guy from a Facebook group I'm on for my McKee Craft boat. His name is Shawn Queeney. He owns Maxxtread.com. Highly recommend him.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:33 pm
by FluidDynamic
Pretty efficient boat. Drove 43 miles today at an average speed of 28 to 32 mph and only burned 4 gallons of fuel.

On another note, I just realized I've never had water come in the scuppers with me or with a crew+ ice chest. I was worried about this, but now I don't.

Re: Panga 20 Build

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:12 am
by TomW1
FluidDynamic wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:33 pm Pretty efficient boat. Drove 43 miles today at an average speed of 28 to 32 mph and only burned 4 gallons of fuel.

On another note, I just realized I've never had water come in the scuppers with me or with a crew+ ice chest. I was worried about this, but now I don't.
That is outstanding a little over 10 mpg. :D The Panga's are efficient. :D A 15 pitch SS will give you even a little more efficiency. But not a lot, maybe 10.75-11 mpg and maybe another 2-3 mph.

Good deal on the scuppers.

Tom