raising sole with tall cleats?

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OneWayTraffic
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Why is self bailing such a big thing in the USA for small boats like these? Obviously if your sole is 1' above the WL you can cut massive side scuppers, but for boats this size it's a permanent wet deck. Is it mainly due to many leaving their boats at a dock?

silentneko
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by silentneko »

OneWayTraffic wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:36 pm Why is self bailing such a big thing in the USA for small boats like these? Obviously if your sole is 1' above the WL you can cut massive side scuppers, but for boats this size it's a permanent wet deck. Is it mainly due to many leaving their boats at a dock?
I'd say it's a combo of things. Leaving a boat at the dock is one. For me the major thing is running through snotty waters, or worse, a jackholes wake. Stuff the bow once and you'll never have a small skiff that doesn't self bail again.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe, and an FS17.

TomW1
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by TomW1 »

OneWayTraffic wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:36 pm Why is self bailing such a big thing in the USA for small boats like these? Obviously if your sole is 1' above the WL you can cut massive side scuppers, but for boats this size it's a permanent wet deck. Is it mainly due to many leaving their boats at a dock?
I think there is a lot of misinterpretation here OWT. Most of our boats are not left at a dock, they are trailered. We want scuppers to drain rain water when on the trailer. We can raise the bow higher the scuppers with front lift. Self bailing is sort of a misnomer, most of the small boats are going to be wet, up to 17-18' and even they can be. It depends on the design.

Tom
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joe2700
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by joe2700 »

OneWayTraffic wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:36 pm Why is self bailing such a big thing in the USA for small boats like these? Obviously if your sole is 1' above the WL you can cut massive side scuppers, but for boats this size it's a permanent wet deck. Is it mainly due to many leaving their boats at a dock?
As others said it's two things. One is leaving the boat at a dock or mooring for those of us who do. While I build my self bailing FS17, with my current boat I have to check every few days in rainy weather to make sure the pump didn't fail or battery die leaving it to sink at the dock. It's just a constant background thing to think about when you are relying on one or maybe two tiny pumps.

Also, take a small(low freeboard) boat out in rough weather or a busy harbor once and you'll realize how close you are to swamping if you catch a wave wrong. Bury the bow and you'll sit low in the water for a long time while that little pump works away, and you are likely to take a second. I drive as carefully as I can but with the wake from ferries, tugs, and ships you can accumulate some water quickly and it's stressful.

If I have the wet feet problem I'll put valves to close my scuppers in nice weather, but I'll take wet feet and a floating boat in rough water.

OneWayTraffic
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Typical NZ trailer boats are non self bailing, cuddy cabin, with either pumps or duckbill scuppers. But the freeboard is higher.

I asked because self bailing isn't any more than a 'nice to have' with my boat. I do have massive scupper holes out the back, but they will probably need forward motion to work. I do plan to build the boat with sufficient side and underfloor flotation so that even if I were to open a scupper hole, and water enter, it shouldn't go higher than a couple inches. Empty not even that, but it's not critical. If the C17 didn't have such good freeboard, I'd be thinking about lowering sole height.

Fuzz
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by Fuzz »

I am not sure what percentage of factory built boats under 20 foot will self bail but it is not very high I would think. But if you are building a custom boat it is a nice feature to have if possible.

OneWayTraffic
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Fuzz wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:26 pm I am not sure what percentage of factory built boats under 20 foot will self bail but it is not very high I would think. But if you are building a custom boat it is a nice feature to have if possible.
That I can agree with. I'm aiming for something closer to Stabicraft stability and flotation myself. Generous flotation down the sides, so the craft will be stable even if swamped. Time will tell how it works, but I've spent hours going over the Physics of it.

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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by Fuzz »

Without running all over this thread I too have thought about a boat with the flotation all up under the gunwells. It would mean some trade offs but it might be worth it.

silentneko
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by silentneko »

Fuzz wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:26 pm I am not sure what percentage of factory built boats under 20 foot will self bail but it is not very high I would think. But if you are building a custom boat it is a nice feature to have if possible.
Been to quite a few boat shows in the last few years. Most center console and duel console boats 18' and up that I've seen lately have self bailing soles. Low freeboard skiffs under 18ft aren't due to lack of sole height.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe, and an FS17.

Woodenyouknowit
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Re: raising sole with tall cleats?

Post by Woodenyouknowit »

DSCN0762.JPG
Easier way, no slotting, glue on strips (sorry a little out of focus)

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