1st DE23 in CZ

[ficcus]

Hello from Czech Republic.
I´m ficcus and I´m preparing my new project after I sold my small sailboat. I decided for DE23. I have plans from Jacques and I have a few questions before ordering the material.

1 – the boat will predominantly move in inlands water – rivers, water canals, lakes. There may be some hard contact situations with wood in the water, stones on the riverbed and with other boats in lock. Should I add 1 layer of biaxial tape for all the seams of hull + 1 layer of woven over everything on the hull (outside + inside)?

2 – for frames B, C, D and E are shown 2nd layers of plywood in the project (Frames details). But in the "Nesting" plan for frames C, D and E the 2nd layers aren´t shown. I suppose that I have to make it from 2 layers.

3 – When the long fuel tank interrupts frame F and G between bottom and sole, do I must increase glass fibers there? Or should I add next very low frames under fuel tank?

4 – Transom is made from 3 layers of 13 milimeters plywood (= 39 mm). In Europe is common 12 millimeters thickness. Can I use it? 3 x 12 = 36 mm and should I add 2 layers of fiber on the transom or should I prefer to use 4 x 10 millimeters for 40 mm transom?

Could you give me an advice please?
That´s all for now and excuse my English please.

[piperdown]

Welcome to the Forums!

I can't answer your question but here's a build thread that might help.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64625&hilit=DE23

[ficcus]

Hi piperdown, thank you. I read Sorin´s thread and other threads from this community. But I´m not see this informations.

[Jaysen]

Your English is more than sufficient. It is better than many native English speakers

4. Use 4x10mm. Make sure you adequately cover the transom layers with epoxy (full surface with no additives, adequate glue, even clamping preasure).

Keep posting questions. Folks here are quick to proved answers.

[fallguy1000]

Hello from Czech Republic.
I´m ficcus and I´m preparing my new project after I sold my small sailboat. I decided for DE23. I have plans from Jacques and I have a few questions before ordering the material.

1 – the boat will predominantly move in inlands water – rivers, water canals, lakes. There may be some hard contact situations with wood in the water, stones on the riverbed and with other boats in lock. Should I add 1 layer of biaxial tape for all the seams of hull + 1 layer of woven over everything on the hull (outside + inside)?

It depends, what is the specified tape? I like the idea of adding tape to the keel, but not the chines. If you add tape to both; you are going to need to build up lots more fairing. Also, if you plan to beach her, then you may want to add a sacrificial skid.

2 – for frames B, C, D and E are shown 2nd layers of plywood in the project (Frames details). But in the "Nesting" plan for frames C, D and E the 2nd layers aren´t shown. I suppose that I have to make it from 2 layers.

This is a question for the designer or another de23 builder. Oftentimes, some bulkheads are made thicker to allow for cutaways. Not sure

3 – When the long fuel tank interrupts frame F and G between bottom and sole, do I must increase glass fibers there? Or should I add next very low frames under fuel tank?

It should be in the notes or plans.

4 – Transom is made from 3 layers of 13 milimeters plywood (= 39 mm). In Europe is common 12 millimeters thickness. Can I use it? 3 x 12 = 36 mm and should I add 2 layers of fiber on the transom or should I prefer to use 4 x 10 millimeters for 40 mm transom?

Well, it would be wrong for me to tell you to drop below the specified transom. But, getting the transom built well is much more important as Jaysen says. Typically, you will 0.5mm vee trowel thickened resins on each side of the board. This would give you about a 1 mm glue joint which is ideal. It is likely better to build from fewer laminations as getting all that troweling and many batches of epoxy made might cause trouble time wise to get under vac or clamped. I woukd recommend you ask the designer, but as a builder I would prefer 3x12 mm for a final 38mm before glass which is one less joint. I can warn you that a large transom and lots of epoxy with thickeners is very time consuming and might even be a two day process. You want to have locating pins ready as well. Precoating is also important here and done on all bonding sides a day before the laminating. I don't believe 10mm ply is actually 10mm is it? I thought it was 9 only. 4x9=36-so double check thet as well if you go that route because those 4 are the same then as 3x12..

Could you give me an advice please?
That´s all for now and excuse my English please.

[jacquesmm]

1 – the boat will predominantly move in inlands water – rivers, water canals, lakes. There may be some hard contact situations with wood in the water, stones on the riverbed and with other boats in lock. Should I add 1 layer of biaxial tape for all the seams of hull + 1 layer of woven over everything on the hull (outside + inside)?

Yes, at least outside.

2 – for frames B, C, D and E are shown 2nd layers of plywood in the project (Frames details). But in the "Nesting" plan for frames C, D and E the 2nd layers aren´t shown. I suppose that I have to make it from 2 layers.

All frames and bulkheads are made from one layer only.

3 – When the long fuel tank interrupts frame F and G between bottom and sole, do I must increase glass fibers there? Or should I add next very low frames under fuel tank?

Yes to one extra layer of fiberglass.

4 – Transom is made from 3 layers of 13 milimeters plywood (= 39 mm). In Europe is common 12 millimeters thickness. Can I use it? 3 x 12 = 36 mm and should I add 2 layers of fiber on the transom or should I prefer to use 4 x 10 millimeters for 40 mm transom?

12 mm is fine. I wonder why the text says 13, probably some CAD software rounding up. I built boats in Europe and know that there is no 13 mm ply. Use 12 mm please.

[ficcus]

Thanks for all!

@Jacques
In plans are shown 2 layers for all the cabin frames - That is why I asked.


13 mm plywood for transom and sole is written - That is why I asked:-)


Have a nice day

[jacquesmm]

Yes, the upper part uses two layers. Two layers are used only for the roof beams and cabin sides frames.
It's a matter of names but you are correct: we use two layers there. The wide parts are made from one layer, the roof beams from 2 layers just at my drawing shows.

About the 13 mm note: use 12 mm, it is fine.

[ficcus]

Hello to all, in bill of materials for DE23 are Fiberglass (totals):

Biaxial fabric 77 yards / 69 m - is it in square area? Thus 69 m²? Is it also for the pilothouse?

[jacquesmm]

It is in linear yards or linear meters. 77 yards or 69 meters long.
The standard roll in the US and Europe is 50" wide = 125 cm.
You can calculate the area but that would give bad results: we calculate how much you will use by measuring the glass unrolled (virtually) over the panels.
The pilothouse is not included, we calculate based on our specifications. see your notes.
If you plan to glass the pilothouse or add a layer to the bottom, look at at the nesting and see the layout on the plywood. A plywood sheet is the same width than a fiberglass roll. Count the panels to add and you have your customized BOM.
Fiberglass is cheap (compared to plywood and resin), buy a little too much.