Evening Dan
I am going down the Aussie route ( Reefie ) V joint and then piped with resin mix. It seems this method is tried and tested so will give it a go....
I have been in contact with a really helpful guy at Gurit and he says it works !!!
Will hopefully finish the planking tomorrow. Will then check and aline any dodge areas before bonding.
The next process is laminating ..... this one I am not sure of.... My plan of attack is to give the hull one coat to strengthen the foam let it cure, sand a prepare and then wet on wet the remaining coats. this may require working until it is finished ( moon light and on )
The question is am I mad ???
Will post more photos soon.
Cheers
Les
LB26
Re: LB26
Good plan.
It is important to make certain that no gaps exist in the core. Cutting a small groove and filling works well. I also tried to push a resin slurry through but it results in drips inside that are difficult to grind down.
Use the method you describe.
For the fiberglass, what you describe is standard procedure. We often call it a skin coat.
If you apply too many layers at a time, the exotherm can produce wiggles in the core. With a single skin coat, you stiffen the core and once that skin is cured, you can follow with multiple layers. It's not crazy, it is the proper way to do it.
It is important to make certain that no gaps exist in the core. Cutting a small groove and filling works well. I also tried to push a resin slurry through but it results in drips inside that are difficult to grind down.
Use the method you describe.
For the fiberglass, what you describe is standard procedure. We often call it a skin coat.
If you apply too many layers at a time, the exotherm can produce wiggles in the core. With a single skin coat, you stiffen the core and once that skin is cured, you can follow with multiple layers. It's not crazy, it is the proper way to do it.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
Re: LB26
Afternoon Guys
For some reason I can not find what the correct mix is for adding Silica and Microballons for making my bonding mix. I have been on the Gurit website, no luck. I am using Ampreg 31 with a slow hardener. Anybody got any advice.
A couple of questions for Jacques.
I am planning to fit a 125mm tube bow thruster, before I order do you have any advice or points you would like to add, position / size / depth etc
I am also planning to build the swim deck in core material with a slightly raised side to take 9mm marine deck.
How do the side rails attach to the side of the hull ?
What would the platform thickness need to be ?
M80 or M200
My thoughts would be to laminate 3 layers of the 15mm M80 and then laminate 2 layers of M200 to edge the platform and run down the side of the hull as the rails, these I would bond and tab to the hull ???
Finished the planking today.... will hopefully start bonding tomorrow.
The lines on this boat are really great.
Cheers
Les
For some reason I can not find what the correct mix is for adding Silica and Microballons for making my bonding mix. I have been on the Gurit website, no luck. I am using Ampreg 31 with a slow hardener. Anybody got any advice.
A couple of questions for Jacques.
I am planning to fit a 125mm tube bow thruster, before I order do you have any advice or points you would like to add, position / size / depth etc
I am also planning to build the swim deck in core material with a slightly raised side to take 9mm marine deck.
How do the side rails attach to the side of the hull ?
What would the platform thickness need to be ?
M80 or M200
My thoughts would be to laminate 3 layers of the 15mm M80 and then laminate 2 layers of M200 to edge the platform and run down the side of the hull as the rails, these I would bond and tab to the hull ???
Finished the planking today.... will hopefully start bonding tomorrow.
The lines on this boat are really great.
Cheers
Les
Re: LB26
For the bow thruster: this is a small boat for a thruster, there is limited space.
First find a small thruster, Vetus has one. Then, starting from the bow, go to the required width below the waterline, at last 10" (25 cm). You will see that it puts it far aft. It is probably not worth the troubles.
For the swim platform: specs like deck or 50% more but you need lots of inserts for fasteners. I would build the whole thing from HD foam, that should be your 200 density.
First find a small thruster, Vetus has one. Then, starting from the bow, go to the required width below the waterline, at last 10" (25 cm). You will see that it puts it far aft. It is probably not worth the troubles.
For the swim platform: specs like deck or 50% more but you need lots of inserts for fasteners. I would build the whole thing from HD foam, that should be your 200 density.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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Re: LB26
I do not use a balloons in bonding mixes. For three reasons.les2021 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:39 am Afternoon Guys
For some reason I can not find what the correct mix is for adding Silica and Microballons for making my bonding mix. I have been on the Gurit website, no luck. I am using Ampreg 31 with a slow hardener. Anybody got any advice.
A couple of questions for Jacques.
I am planning to fit a 125mm tube bow thruster, before I order do you have any advice or points you would like to add, position / size / depth etc
I am also planning to build the swim deck in core material with a slightly raised side to take 9mm marine deck.
How do the side rails attach to the side of the hull ?
What would the platform thickness need to be ?
M80 or M200
My thoughts would be to laminate 3 layers of the 15mm M80 and then laminate 2 layers of M200 to edge the platform and run down the side of the hull as the rails, these I would bond and tab to the hull ???
Finished the planking today.... will hopefully start bonding tomorrow.
The lines on this boat are really great.
Cheers
LesC13A90E5-0F49-4E99-AF0A-B76827EF230B.jpeg
1. Pretty sure they weigh more.
2. They sag more.
3. Sanding bonds should be avoided, and balloons are used to make sanding easier. Some sanding of bonds is needed, but work should be clean.
4. I believe, wothout solid evidence, the bond is weaker.
I use the following...from memory.
Fairing mix.
543g mixed resin
25g cabosil
75g balloons
(You will need to adjust for your epoxy and you can also tweak it to 20 cab and 80 balloons for easier sanding. So, use this ratio for a smaller test batch)
Bonding/fillets (sags less)
Can't find my sheet right now.
..by volume.
1 part epoxy mixed resins
2.2 parts cabosil
Mix all in a bucket with a good sized stick. Fingers get real sore after awhile.. transfer well mixed resins to a board and trowel them thin to avoid exotherm and early kicking off. I also like to mix on the board. I use a two trowel system and for bonding seams would use a 3" and 4" wide trowel.
Get a 5 gallon bucket and put a couple inches of acetone in the bottom and throw tools in it. If they are not solvent proof handles; they'll dissolve.
If I find my cab mix by weight, will update.
Re: LB26
Thanks Jacques ? Dan
Jacques can explain the swim deck in a bit more detail ( side rail fixing etc as my proposal ) high density is not a problem.
It's mainly fixing it to the hull ( side rails ) and depth of foam. I am planning on 3 support frames under.
When you say lots of inserts for fasteners ???
Many thanks
Les
Jacques can explain the swim deck in a bit more detail ( side rail fixing etc as my proposal ) high density is not a problem.
It's mainly fixing it to the hull ( side rails ) and depth of foam. I am planning on 3 support frames under.
When you say lots of inserts for fasteners ???
Many thanks
Les
Re: LB26
Wherever you bolt something, you need HD foam instead of the regular hull foam.
I think that your transom is entirely made from HD foam. Is that correct?
In that case, there is nothing to worry about from the point of view of fasteners.
For the swim platform itself, I do not show any details because I expect most builders to install and aftermarket platform.
If you make it your self, my 3D model uses a rail all around. That flange (rail) will be single skin. For the flat part, I would use the same material than the deck, same core, same glass . To support it, if you make them from foam sandwich, I would use 3 or 4 brackets, single skin thick glass, let's say 10 mm thick or cored with HD foam or cored with an L shaped Al angle.
I would prefer the brackets to be metallic.
I think that your transom is entirely made from HD foam. Is that correct?
In that case, there is nothing to worry about from the point of view of fasteners.
For the swim platform itself, I do not show any details because I expect most builders to install and aftermarket platform.
If you make it your self, my 3D model uses a rail all around. That flange (rail) will be single skin. For the flat part, I would use the same material than the deck, same core, same glass . To support it, if you make them from foam sandwich, I would use 3 or 4 brackets, single skin thick glass, let's say 10 mm thick or cored with HD foam or cored with an L shaped Al angle.
I would prefer the brackets to be metallic.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
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- * Bateau Builder - Expert *
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- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am
Re: LB26
You want the swim platform to be able to break off.
Sounds off, but you don't want another boater or yourself crashing into the swim platform and punching thru the hull. For backing the LB26 with a swim platform, the best thing I have seen is the use of a small cheap rib inflatable which is secured to the slip or dock and the swim platform actually hits the side of the inflatable and you avoid damage. Or four old tires, etc.
But the rib works if you are transient.
For hard points, like a cleat mount, you can preplan with coosa or you can decore and insert just cabosil n resin.
The cabosil method works if one side is laminated and you can decore, but maintain the laminate.
I have used both. I do not trust corecell 12# for acrew holding, but do trust coosa 20#. Designers may spec HD core, but it varies from 12-26#. For my Skoota, Ii serted 12# core for beam socket load support and hope now that it is not too light! At the time I did the work, I don't recall if I asked for a clarification or not.
When decoring and filling with thixo, use caution to avoid fire. The thickened resins can get very hot and also crack at 1/2". The best way to do them is in steps. Apply 1/4" first, allow it to go to gel, then return 60 minutes later and apply it to flush. Oftentimes, that much infill will shrink and a 3rd coat 8 hours later may be needed.
Anyhow, I have tons of tips for you. I answer about 4 times a day. At lunch, morning coffee, after dinner, bedtime.
Sounds off, but you don't want another boater or yourself crashing into the swim platform and punching thru the hull. For backing the LB26 with a swim platform, the best thing I have seen is the use of a small cheap rib inflatable which is secured to the slip or dock and the swim platform actually hits the side of the inflatable and you avoid damage. Or four old tires, etc.
But the rib works if you are transient.
For hard points, like a cleat mount, you can preplan with coosa or you can decore and insert just cabosil n resin.
The cabosil method works if one side is laminated and you can decore, but maintain the laminate.
I have used both. I do not trust corecell 12# for acrew holding, but do trust coosa 20#. Designers may spec HD core, but it varies from 12-26#. For my Skoota, Ii serted 12# core for beam socket load support and hope now that it is not too light! At the time I did the work, I don't recall if I asked for a clarification or not.
When decoring and filling with thixo, use caution to avoid fire. The thickened resins can get very hot and also crack at 1/2". The best way to do them is in steps. Apply 1/4" first, allow it to go to gel, then return 60 minutes later and apply it to flush. Oftentimes, that much infill will shrink and a 3rd coat 8 hours later may be needed.
Anyhow, I have tons of tips for you. I answer about 4 times a day. At lunch, morning coffee, after dinner, bedtime.
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- * Bateau Builder - Expert *
- Posts: 10205
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am
Re: LB26
Here is a hardtop with coosa 20# mounts for horn/hailer/flir/radar/lights
Make sure to photo document the locations if they will vanish with paint. I have closeups, won't bother you. See they are labelled a,b,c....
Make sure to photo document the locations if they will vanish with paint. I have closeups, won't bother you. See they are labelled a,b,c....
Re: LB26
Hi Guys
Well it is hard work here at the moment, it is now the hottest on record in Greece 46.8 degrees..... So spending 5 hours piping resin in to v joints is good for loosing weight and bad for drinking beer !!!
But she is now bonded and ready for fairing before fibreglassing. will give it a go tomorrow depending on heat....
So is the latest snap shot, she really is beginning to take those lovely lines.
Cheers
Les
Well it is hard work here at the moment, it is now the hottest on record in Greece 46.8 degrees..... So spending 5 hours piping resin in to v joints is good for loosing weight and bad for drinking beer !!!
But she is now bonded and ready for fairing before fibreglassing. will give it a go tomorrow depending on heat....
So is the latest snap shot, she really is beginning to take those lovely lines.
Cheers
Les
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