panga 22

[cape_fisherman]

That has definitely not been my experience. My wife and I have paddled boats with kevlar bottoms on whitewater for years, smashed them on rocks, repaired them with minimal skills and never noticed any effects of water absorption, possibly be cause we never looked.

I'm probably the least qualified to comment on this topic but I did find this interesting:

Capture.PNG

from https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a074547.pdf

I would have to ask...in any of your smashing on rocks have you smashed hard enough to get the kevlar to fuzz up? You can't sand it. It has to be cut out, and that part of the hull replaced. Just curious if you've experienced the fuzzing that aramid fibers cause when abraded?

Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass & other fibers...hence the suggestion to bury it in the laminate...you really don't ever want it being abraded. You just want it there to protect in a worst-case-scenario event.

[VT_Jeff]

I would have to ask...in any of your smashing on rocks have you smashed hard enough to get the kevlar to fuzz up? You can't sand it. It has to be cut out, and that part of the hull replaced. Just curious if you've experienced the fuzzing that aramid fibers cause when abraded?

Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass & other fibers...hence the suggestion to bury it in the laminate...you really don't ever want it being abraded. You just want it there to protect in a worst-case-scenario event.

Sure. This clip shows one move that tends to shred the ends of the boat, though shes in plastic in the clip:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01WIoqQjjE0

This is the bow of Elaine's carbon/kevlar boat. She has smashed the bow any number of times and we usually repair it at some campsite while on the road. We started adding a kevlar profolactic to extend the time between repairs.

We just grind the kevlar/ fuzz and epoxy some more kevlar on, never seemed like a big deal.

Here's the whole boat, it was custom made by some dudes in canada. Elaine's nickname is "Snacks", best not to ask.

We dont have downriver boats anymore but it was the same deal: smash it in a race on saturday, dry it out and patch it at the campsite sat night, smash it again on sunday, hope for a podium

I'm no expert, but no one ever told me it was hard, so we just did it/do it.

I bought a kevlar downriver boat that was in rough shape. I spent some time grinding the bottom, bought a big piece of kevlar to fix it, and then bought a different boat and never completed the repair. The kevlar I bought ended up on the bottom of my driftboat. When it gets smashed,I'll patch it as I've been doing.

[fallguy1000]

That has definitely not been my experience. My wife and I have paddled boats with kevlar bottoms on whitewater for years, smashed them on rocks, repaired them with minimal skills and never noticed any effects of water absorption, possibly be cause we never looked.

I'm probably the least qualified to comment on this topic but I did find this interesting:

Capture.PNG

from https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a074547.pdf

I would have to ask...in any of your smashing on rocks have you smashed hard enough to get the kevlar to fuzz up? You can't sand it. It has to be cut out, and that part of the hull replaced. Just curious if you've experienced the fuzzing that aramid fibers cause when abraded?

Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass & other fibers...hence the suggestion to bury it in the laminate...you really don't ever want it being abraded. You just want it there to protect in a worst-case-scenario event.

They are impact whacking it.

The fuzzing happens in groundings when the kevlar grinds on a rock on the bottom on a beach overnite.

Two totally different deals. He just slaps on another piece.

If you leave your boat grinding on a rock overnite with kevlar under it, you'll get that rat's nest. Hope I havent't jinkxed myself!

[VT_Jeff]

That has definitely not been my experience. My wife and I have paddled boats with kevlar bottoms on whitewater for years, smashed them on rocks, repaired them with minimal skills and never noticed any effects of water absorption, possibly be cause we never looked.

I'm probably the least qualified to comment on this topic but I did find this interesting:

Capture.PNG

from https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a074547.pdf

I would have to ask...in any of your smashing on rocks have you smashed hard enough to get the kevlar to fuzz up? You can't sand it. It has to be cut out, and that part of the hull replaced. Just curious if you've experienced the fuzzing that aramid fibers cause when abraded?

Again, the stuff is extremely hygroscopic...much more than glass & other fibers...hence the suggestion to bury it in the laminate...you really don't ever want it being abraded. You just want it there to protect in a worst-case-scenario event.

They are impact whacking it.

The fuzzing happens in groundings when the kevlar grinds on a rock on the bottom on a beach overnite.

Two totally different deals. He just slaps on another piece.

If you leave your boat grinding on a rock overnite with kevlar under it, you'll get that rat's nest. Hope I havent't jinkxed myself!

I'll doc my next repair and we can pick up the debate there.

[jacquesmm]

panga 22, it does not show the DWL and I would like to know how much weight before water would come in the suppers? Plans say 8 inch draft, also 7 1/4 from bottom to cockpit sole

See the study plans:
The DWL is at the listed displacement of 2,000 lbs and at 8" draft. In this design, I did put the DWL at the lower face of the sole or just a little below. This means that at level trim and a displacement of 2,000 lbs, the cockpit drains. The study plans also list a PPI of 420 lbs. That means, the waterline goes up 1" for every 420 lbs of extra load. With the thickness of the sole, it will take about 300 lbs for the cockpit drains to be flush with the waterline. That does not mean sinking, the boat is unsinkable with the buoyancy foam but the cockpit may get wet around 2,300 lbs. The Pangas are small boats for the length but very seaworthy. I recommend cockpit drain plugs IF you load the boat hevily.

[jljones]

were can I find some information on putting spray rails on the Panga22?

[TomW1]

were can I find some information on putting spray rails on the Panga22?

I would look at your plans in more detail, they may be on a separate sheet from everything else. The study plans show spray rails on her in various pictures and drawings. If not ask again.

Tom

[jacquesmm]

were can I find some information on putting spray rails on the Panga22?

See the drawing "lamination schedule". There is a suggested spray rail on there, it follows the chine.

[OneWayTraffic]

Details like spray and rubrails builders make to their own preferences, usually. What is drawn will work and work well, but you could do anything you like from a Kapten boat collar, to leaving it without a sprayrail. I filled in my chine, and glued some UHMWPE strips to the chine and styleline. I'll put some more in at the rubrail. Won't look as good as a commercial one, but cheaper and tougher. Which suits me fine.

[TomW1]

Details like spray and rubrails builders make to their own preferences, usually. What is drawn will work and work well, but you could do anything you like from a Kapten boat collar, to leaving it without a sprayrail. I filled in my chine, and glued some UHMWPE strips to the chine and styleline. I'll put some more in at the rubrail. Won't look as good as a commercial one, but cheaper and tougher. Which suits me fine.

When the designer shows a spray rail, it is there to help the builder make the boat a drier boat. It is not a builders preference. I have an OD18 where the builder did not put on the suggested spray rail and it gets wet pretty quick in a chop.

OneWayTraffic rub rails must be built to the designers specs as they strengthen the sheer. You can make them bigger but not less than the designer requires. The FS17 requires a 1.5x.75 rub rail as I recall. Larger boats require larger ones You can make the rub rail of 1/4" pieces overlapped ply. Just don't make the joints end on each other.

So hope this helps other builders understand why the designer puts rub rails and spray rails in his plans and why they should not be disregarded.

Tom