LM18 vs PH16/18

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JCW1982
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LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by JCW1982 »

Howdy everyone! First post to the board since the days of Bateau.com.

I have been sitting on a set of PH18 plans for going on 15 years (life got in the way). Fast forward to today and the itch to build a boat is becoming significant. The PH18 is still one of the better designs to my eye compared to the rest of the catalog, but the LM18 has really caught my attention. The fact that I have a 20' Sea Chaser flats skiff kind of makes me feel the PH18 will be just too much redundancy for my fishing style. The Sea Chaser, being heavy with sharp deadrise is great at taming a chop when I have to cross open waters or running around the barrier islands...but the draft is about 8-10" (at rest w/ motor trimmed up). This makes me think the boat I build should be one that would let me get into skinner water...which has me eyeballing the LM18.

Whenever its complete, the primary use will be chasing speckled trout and redfish in the marshes of AL and MS. Not much of a poling game and I'll often be solo. Plans will include a trolling motor. I am not a huge fan of tiller steering and plan to install a console (undecided on center or small side console). If possible, I would like to also install a small bait well.

No plan on building a speed demon, I plan to keep HP in the range of the design recommendations. I know the LM18 is designed to be an ultralight...and adding a trolling motor, battery (or batteries), bait well and steering console will all be significant weight penalties. Can it still be built as self bailing?

Besides the skinnier capabilities, it looks like the LM18 can come together a little faster than the Phantom which is another benefit to me.

Given the details outlined, would the LM18 be a viable option or would I be better off going the route of a Phantom 16 or 18?

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VT_Jeff
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by VT_Jeff »

JCW1982 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:33 pm Can it still be built as self bailing?
Welcome to the party!

You can, theoretically, move the sole up as high as you want to ensure self-bailing capabilities. The designer is going to balk if you raise it too high but he balks at most everything we do here, esp over-building, which everyone does. :lol: :lol:

The plans and maybe study plans give you the PPI of the hull form, which means the number of pounds it takes over the design load to sink the boat another inch. Use that to guesstimate what you can add and have it remain self-bailing.

If I had the space, I well may have built the LM18 instead of my FS14, there have been some real beauties made, as I'm sure you've seen. Colemanfire comes to mind, check his out.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

JCW1982
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by JCW1982 »

If I raise the sole, I doubt I raise it more than one inch. I would also be building the standard sheer design. Undecided on the standard vs round chine (but the aesthetics of the round chine are growing on me).

Colemanfire's and Jwhitakeriii's builds are the two that I have studied the most. Both are gorgeous builds.

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VT_Jeff
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by VT_Jeff »

JCW1982 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 2:50 pm If I raise the sole, I doubt I raise it more than one inch. I would also be building the standard sheer design. Undecided on the standard vs round chine (but the aesthetics of the round chine are growing on me).

Colemanfire's and Jwhitakeriii's builds are the two that I have studied the most. Both are gorgeous builds.
I originally thought the guys that went through the hassle of the round chines were nuts. I now realize that that extra effort is a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things and probably well worth while. It's critical, I've learned, to remove the right amount of material from between the fingers, as they do with the kits by cutting them with a bit and not a saw.

(I should be clear that I've never done it, just read a lot about it)
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
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TomW1
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by TomW1 »

Sounds like a plan to me. The LM18 would work fine with a small trolling motor on it. As it is wider a small console also works. That will let you keep the trolling battery under the console to balance the weight of the trolling motor forward. I looked at the Study plan and they have neither the Displacement at DWL or PPI so you might want to reach out to Jacques for those. I would not raise the deck more the 1" This is a small boat with out much free board to begin with. But by raising it you would have a little more room for running your chase tubes.

You are also correct the LM18 is a lot easier to build that a Phantom and you can get a lot skinnier.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

Cbuf
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by Cbuf »

I have built the LM18 and I love it. I had every similar requirements as you, but I needed to be able to run faster than 30 to keep up with the flow of traffic in the channels off of marco and naples FL. I put a about a 15 gallon live well, a narrow console (16 inch wide) 11" steering wheel that also contains the livewell, a 55 lb trolling motor to hold me in current, and I raised the sole 1". My cockpit is dry, but in part because of a helper bilge pump in the the drain tubes (see pics). At rest with 2 people full gas and livewell it didn't drain fast enough for me. Especially when I'm bringing in and empting cast nets full of bait, the inline helper pump was the trick. Any extreme amounts of water empties in seconds, the rest overflow out the plumbed drain tubes. This method keeps the bilge dry as a bone. At the dock however the auto in line bilge system is turned off and the cockpit is self draining. I thought about building the phantom as well, but it was a more work and this was my first build.

Things I got right:
Adding 1'.5 inch to the rub rail and spending a ton of time radius'ing the underneath of the rub rail so that water hits it and deflected down. My boat rides so dry people don't understand how you can stay dry in a 1' chop.
The inline bigle. No wet feet.
weight distribution. I actually rolled the boat on a pipe to ensure I had the center weight about 10-11 feet from the back.
Electric system. I have an isolated 12 lbs starting battery in the back, and the house battery is at the far front on an automatic charge control relay. I can run the trolling motor down to nothing and still start the boat, and if needed run the house loads from the little battery.
Find the small steering wheel. I had a normal steering wheel and when I mocked it up it was always in the way. Look for that 11" one, so nice.

Things i might do differently.
I would not paint it white, it can be blinding
I would not use white non skid, it is hard to clean.
I have a 9" inch screen, I wish I went with a 12"
I went with flow right livewell value, do not do this. Pump the livewell without the use of values. The sucker gets clogged, and I have killed my bait several times, I plan on drilling another hole in the boat to fix this problem.
While I like my electrical and the plan was good, I wish I would have made it more accessible.
I should have added more rod holders for drifting live bait.

cbuf
See my LM 18 build here.
viewtopic.php?t=64254
See my LM 18 Questions here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64299&hilit=lm18\
Finished Boat Here
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=65173

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VT_Jeff
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by VT_Jeff »

Cbuf wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:20 am I would not paint it white, it can be blinding
I would not use white non skid, it is hard to clean.
Cbuf, I'm on the verge of doing both of these things, though I'm using Oyster White and using the BBC non-skid grit.

What would be your choice for a deck/non-skid color if you were going to do it again, flat gray maybe?
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by Jaysen »

VT, I used oyster white on lil bit. I find it tolerable but would a shade darker if I do it again. Not grey though. I wear dark tinted shades and it’s perfect for me. It also roasts me evenly ensuring a nice red color for the Mrs to slap when I get out of line.

In my opinion, the lighter texture of the bbc nonskid makes he white easy to clean.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
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VT_Jeff
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by VT_Jeff »

Jaysen wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 12:28 pm VT, I used oyster white on lil bit. I find it tolerable but would a shade darker if I do it again. Not grey though. I wear dark tinted shades and it’s perfect for me. It also roasts me evenly ensuring a nice red color for the Mrs to slap when I get out of line.

In my opinion, the lighter texture of the bbc nonskid makes he white easy to clean.
Interesting. My sailboat deck/cockpit are white, my Grady deck/cockpit was white.....so I guess I am well-accustomed to getting blinded.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

Cbuf
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Re: LM18 vs PH16/18

Post by Cbuf »

VT_Jeff wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 11:42 am
Cbuf wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:20 am I would not paint it white, it can be blinding
I would not use white non skid, it is hard to clean.
Cbuf, I'm on the verge of doing both of these things, though I'm using Oyster White and using the BBC non-skid grit.

What would be your choice for a deck/non-skid color if you were going to do it again, flat gray maybe?
Well, I would choose the Oyster Gray. It is a very light gray. The reelreports captain Mike just paint his boat with it and it turned out sharp. I had used the system 3 White paint, I can't remember the official color name. Then I used white Kiwi Grip for non skid. Also just for reference. If you use Kiwi grip do not use the aggressive method, the stuff is pretty grippy as is no need for aggressive grip. go with medium texture.
See my LM 18 build here.
viewtopic.php?t=64254
See my LM 18 Questions here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64299&hilit=lm18\
Finished Boat Here
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=65173

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