Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:48 pm**

(If this needs to be in a different section due to not being a Bateau design, I apologize. But my understanding is that since I’m buying from BBC, this is the right place. Obviously, just move it if I’m wrong.)

Probably too early for me to really start this thread yet, but I can’t make myself wait any longer.

I’m about to start a shanty boat build for river and fair weather lake use - gunkholing is probably a good descriptor if I understand the term correctly. I’ve posted a few miscellaneous questions elsewhere, but I’ll make this my build thread. On vacation now, but talked to Reid at BBC last week and will probably have the ply delivered next week.

Plan is a 22’ x 7’6” barge type hull with sleeping accommodations to support a couple together or a couple of guys separately, a fully enclosed head(camp style), a tiny interior galley area, and large front porch.

I’ve drawn from all the on-line shanty boat designs I could find, which wasn’t many, as “design” really isn’t historically a big factor in their build. My biggest departure from most of them are the size and location of the outside area and location of the helm. Typically the deck area on a shanty is negligible or on the roof and the helm is either inside(remote) or out back via tiller.

My boat will have a large ‘front porch’ which will also be the location of the helm. The biggest challenges this presents are weight distribution, and shade for the driver. I think I have weight distribution covered. At this point still noodling through shade for the captain.

Windage is also a big consideration on this vessel, so the (aft) sleeping area will be reduced to just over 4 feet while the galley/head will be 6’2”.

Need to figure out picture posting. Seems like they have to be hosted somewhere not just dropped in. Then I can add a few drawings and ideas contemplated until I actually start cutting up wood.

Been wanting this boat for over a decade, actually sketching, planning, investigating for several years. Finally have the money and a place to build, so can’t wait to get started.

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:30 pm**

Congrats JBO on your future build, it sounds like you ha e really thought it through!!!! Welcome to the Builders Forum, our membership are great builders and always eager to assist in builds!!!! Jeff

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:00 pm**

Trying a pic post.

Hesperia: not really a shanty boat, but provided some inspiration.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:07 pm**

Actual shanty by another designer. Won’t post the name here.

My design will have many similarities with this one aesthetically, but a couple of significant differences.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:14 pm**

Early paper model I made while on vacation a couple of years ago. Hull shape will be the same, but have made a few changes since then. This model was based on18’ and a more austere arrangement. I’ve since decided (with wife’s input) that it needs a little more comfort, which will require me to go to 22’.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:52 pm**

This will be an interesting build to watch!!! Jeff

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:51 pm**

Make sure it has at least a porta potty er fergit it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:11 pm**

Should be fun to watch. I'll be planning a similar project in a few years. Good luck.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:28 pm**

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:51 pm Make sure it has at least a porta potty er fergit it.

Yep. That’s a big reason for the expansion. Also, she wanted a bed that wasn’t a conversion. Converting bed would have let me keep it to 20’.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:16 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:28 pm
fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:51 pm Make sure it has at least a porta potty er fergit it.
Yep. That’s a big reason for the expansion. Also, she wanted a bed that wasn’t a conversion. Converting bed would have let me keep it to 20’.

Jbo

Our bed is a conversion, but we made the back into a daybed, like 22" wide. There is your 2'.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:41 pm**

Yeah. But: a) that’s still a “conversion” and b) then it’s harder to split into two for two guys to make a trip.

It’s a great idea. I still consider a transverse bed, but my wife struggles with insomnia and we don’t want to be crawling over each other. So the bed has to be inline with the centerline of the boat.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:37 pm**

Just curious, have you ever traveled on a small houseboat/shanty? And where abouts are you located?

We rented a old 18ft houseboat earlier this year in central Fl and had a good time, but gave us some insight too.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:55 pm**

SN,

I’m in northeast Georgia. I think you and I actually corresponded on another forum recently about your trip.

I have spent some time on small boats, but not overnights. However, we are hikers/campers and don’t require much. So I’m confident we can enjoy the space I have planned for on the boat. We do use our boat frequently for the program noted above with the exception that we don’t use it for overnights.

Basically, I’m nearing the end of my physical ability to hike and camp the way I’d like, so this boat will be a way for me/us to extend that while saving our bodies as we move into retirement.

Would certainly appreciate the chance to weigh any thoughts or insights you offer. (Actually based on feedback - that I’m pretty sure you noted - I have begun exploring what it will take to include at least some form of conditioned air in my boat. Otherwise, I will lose the three central summer months for most overnighters.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:44 pm**

Just curious here: why not build a GF18, or one of the Flats designs then put a superstructure on it? Seems to me that that would be more straightforward.

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:17 am**

I think an 18' hb is a wee bit small.

An ac unit wise. When you find one, let me know. I think you need solar and plenty of battery. My battery box is under the aft bench on the outside of the cabin.

My wife gets the inside as she is the better sleeper. Beds for n aft robbed us of shower and galley and table.

Most everything needs to double purpose on a boat.

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 am**

OneWayTraffic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:44 pm Just curious here: why not build a GF18, or one of the Flats designs then put a superstructure on it? Seems to me that that would be more straightforward.

Good question, and I’ve considered it.

GF18 is far less real estate. Also is a planing design whereas I’m designing for low power. I’ve done lots of looking and actual designs for the hull I want are very few.

My hull will be very simple on its own and certainly simpler than scaling up a design with more complex panel shapes.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:24 am**

Yes, Fallguy, 18’ would be very small. I would have to give up almost the entire outside area. That seemed pretty dumb on something whose entire purpose was to get me outside to begin with.

That’s why I ultimately got to 22’. I tried hard to make it fit into 20, but just didn’t feel there was enough space outside the cabin.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:28 am**

A/C will probably be a later retro-fit. Haven’t found anything acceptable yet. I’ve been looking on forums on teardrop campers for ideas.

Swamp coolers are an obvious first thought, but here in the deep southeast are pretty much useless with our humidity.

I’ll let you know what I find.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:47 pm**

From a hull perspective, what about an XF? Be flat bottom. Skip the tunnel. Add some freeboard. Big displacement but should be easy to move.

Might be something to consider.

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:23 pm**

jbo_c, we may have spoken on one of the other sites I'm on, I frequent a few these days.

I know you are up in Georgia, but if you fancy a trip that will teach you a bit then I'd rent one of these little guys like we did from Tinyhouseboatadventures.com It was I think $260 for the weekend.
Or maybe find a rental that is local similar to your build. There really is no way to see how things work, other then using a similar example.

So here's the little boat we rented.

Naturally as any boat builder would, I brought a tape measure and did a rough sketch of the interior. Here it is. The numbers are in inches.

I'll start by saying we are not the smallest people. I'm 6'3" and 240lbs, so some of this boat was a bit tight. The dinette converted to a bed, but it was a little narrow and to short for 2 of to sleep on it, so I slept on the bench. The head/toilet was too narrow! I had trouble....err....cleaning up. It was also where the roof dropped down so I couldn't even come close to standing in it. I would make it at least 24-26 inches wide and increase headroom. These issues are all worked out if you stretch the boat a few feet like you plan and make the beam 8.5ft instead of 7.5ft.

Yes add AC! maybe a rooftop camper unit powered by a small generator on a swim platform? Or just a window unit, one that dehumidifies would be nice. I'll add more in a minute, my computers is about to die.

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:57 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 am
OneWayTraffic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:44 pm Just curious here: why not build a GF18, or one of the Flats designs then put a superstructure on it? Seems to me that that would be more straightforward.
Good question, and I’ve considered it.

GF18 is far less real estate. Also is a planing design whereas I’m designing for low power. I’ve done lots of looking and actual designs for the hull I want are very few.

My hull will be very simple on its own and certainly simpler than scaling up a design with more complex panel shapes.

Jbo

https://www.boatbuildercentral.com/prod ... lans-gt23/

That makes sense. Did you consider this? This style of boat is nearly useless where I live, so I'm interested in the thought process.

Posted: **Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:03 pm**

jbo the XF22 is almost perfect for you. Like Jaysen said just raise the sides. This way you have a proven design. If you want to make it a little narrower take it out of the center, though I don't know why you would want to. And also raise the stringers and deck a few inches. While it is a planing boat just put a 20 or 30 HP motor on it to make it a displacement boat. You will also need a skeg to help in turning. I can help you determine the size motor you need as you get close to the end of your build and have an idea of the weight of your build and I can put it through my calculators. Your cabin will add a bunch of weight aft so be careful you add weight forward like fuel and water tanks or some form of ballast, though you may not need to. The XF22 can carry a pretty good load and you might want to wait till after launch till adding ballast forward.

Well that's my thoughts and something for you to think about. Since your making it a plining boat you can get by with 170z instead of the 1708 but check with check with Jacques.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:03 am**

You really ought to rent one.

Here in Minnesota, it is not legal to not have a backup boat or tow boat.

I really like the ends of the boat to be open which pushes more footage and the sides of the hull need to carry the ropes, so a minimalist would be a rope tray.

Did Barry sell the gt23?

That'd be the way to go. Gt23

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:12 am**

Good thoughts here. Appreciate all the feedback.

This boat will most likely be pushed with a 10hp. Even that will likely be overkill, but I think that’s going to be the smallest I can find with electric start. I have an old 18 Evinrude that’s likely to be the initial propulsion, but planning to graduate to a modern high thrust.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:39 am**

That 18 will push the gt23 at displacement speed, say about 1-2 miles and hour or maybe up to 5 under the hump. In all my houseboat trips, top speed is about 15, but the operators want you to run below 3000 rpms. So the boats travel about 10 mph. Yes, a 30 mile trip is 3 hours at least. Most of the time, people are going slower.

The 18 won't provide you a margin of safety to get off or away from tstorms or high wind, but it is plenty for the gt23. That boat should probably never have a 150 on it. It is a ton if power.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:18 am**

We aren’t fast boat people. 5-7 knots is plenty. We’ll just wait out a storm inside rather than try race it somewhere. 90% of use will be within 100 yards of shore, frequently much less, often on both sides of the boat.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:21 am**

SilentNeko,

Thanks for the pictures, and especially the measurements. My wife and I are looking at doing that very trip in the fall. Would appreciate any further thoughts or pictures from your trip.

We actually had planned a 7 day trip down the Eerie Canal for this summer, but COVID ate it. Hoping to do it next year if my shanty boat isn’t finished and on the water by then.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:50 pm**

jbo a 9.9HP will be enough for you. I ran the numbers through my calculators and you would be fine. I assumed a weight of 4500lbs with the shanty, people, safety gear, food, and everything else. A 9.9 will be perfect and will allow you to cruise at a 5-6 mph without stressing the engine, top speed is 9mph. A 15 will give you a little safety margin with a top speed of 12. I used Yamaha outboards for my calculations. Mercury also has a 9.9HP Pro Kicker EFI.

I used 4500obs as Jauques listed 3000lbs as the DWL for the XF22 so I may even be light for your boat. You will need to keep a spread sheet to determine what your final weight is or weigh it on a scale once finished.

Wishing you the best and post pictures as you go.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:14 pm**

No problem. The trip was a blast. The 3 boats he has to rent have different interiors so make sure to look over the pics for the one you want. If there is high wind he doesn't want you to go into the larger lakes for obvious reasons, but the wind never pushed us much. We even got stuck in a storm and never had a worry.

We didn't cook. Instead we chose to bring snacks in the cooler and stop at the various eateries up and down the river. Swamp House is a definite stop. Good food, good drinks, and the basin it sits in is a pretty cool setup.

When traveling up and down the river you literally just find a hole or side canal, drop anchor and go to sleep at night. They give you a 12v fan which was good enough for us at night. Make sure you go when it's cooling off. The river is pretty, lots of wildlife and old growth.

Just remember these are antique boats from the 70's, and pretty basic. Ours was clean, but a little rough around the edges. Plenty good enough for the weekend. It was a pretty unique experience cruising around in it. We had plenty of airflow with the windows and door open, and with the screens and such we never worried about bugs, sun, or rain. We never even put on sunblock.

There are a few places to hit up, but the best we hit by far is Blue Spring. There are tons of fish and manatees in the spring, and its a really nice park. You are allowed to beach the houseboat there. There's a small area to the south that you just pull up to, tie off to a tree, and walk around the park. There is ropes and floats blocking the water entrance to the spring, but you can motor right up to them and drop anchor. Then sit there and drink while the manatees circle your boat.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:18 pm**

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate your efforts. I was figuring around 4500 pounds all up so it sounds like we’re thinking along the same lines.

Will definitely share pictures. I know how much I enjoy looking at others’ progress when I cruise the forum.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:22 pm**

Thanks for the info ‘Nemo. We’re going to look into going for three nights in October or November. Our daughter lives in Orlando, so it will be a good way to break up a week long visit.

Love the pics.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:22 pm**

TomW1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:50 pm jbo a 9.9HP will be enough for you. I ran the numbers through my calculators and you would be fine. I assumed a weight of 4500lbs with the shanty, people, safety gear, food, and everything else. A 9.9 will be perfect and will allow you to cruise at a 5-6 mph without stressing the engine, top speed is 9mph. A 15 will give you a little safety margin with a top speed of 12. I used Yamaha outboards for my calculations. Mercury also has a 9.9HP Pro Kicker EFI.

I used 4500obs as Jauques listed 3000lbs as the DWL for the XF22 so I may even be light for your boat. You will need to keep a spread sheet to determine what your final weight is or weigh it on a scale once finished.

Wishing you the best and post pictures as you go.

Tom

Not to try and argue your calculations, but since he won't have enough power to plane won't he be restricted to hull length based displacement speeds? Assuming he has about 20ft at the waterline I don't thing he will be able to exceed 6mph with that low a HP outboard.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:33 pm**

Yes, if I stick with a displacement hull, I’ll be restricted on speed. Think Tom was referring to if I chose to use one of Jacques’ designs(XF or HB).

Then, in theory, I could run in a transition phase(incredibly inefficiently) and beat hull speed.

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:26 am**

My calculations take any boat into account, once they go into it, it doesn't cares who the design comes from and depend on the inputs. Both boat and motor. Any flat bottom boat can be considered a planing boat by its design. To make it a displacement boat you you just reduce the HP. That is the advantage of a flat hull. My calculator I used your boat at 22' with a 20' water line at 4500lbs and a 9.9HP motor. It also showed ideal displacement speed of 6.5mph one of the calculations it throws out. So your puttering along at what you want will be fine.

Silentneko my calculators throw out many different calculations from max speed to best cruise speed for displacement boats. I don't control what they say but they are accurate.

jbo I still think you should build the XF22 hull as it fits your needs perfectly only 6" wider and already a proven design you don't have to mess around with, the design of your stringer widths/length, bottom strength, frame distances, etc. that is all taken care of for you. Just build everything to the height of the front and rear decks and put some type of railings like a house boat would have around the edge.

Well my thoughts worth 2 cents today and nothing tomorrow,

Tom,

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:57 am**

So, Tom, a question I keep coming back to in one form or another:

How much efficiency is lost on a flat bottom that is immersed vs one that is designed specifically for displacement with the transom above the water line?

Put another way, if a person is building a boat specifically for displacement speed, why would he build a planing hull?

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:02 pm**

Best reason I can think of is draft. The flat bottom, or shallow V hulls will give you the ability to load up weight without a huge penalty. Cruising around its not needed, but finding safe harbor or gunkholes and beaching it's an advantage. Personally I'd build a planing hull just so I can exceed hull speed to outrun a storm, but I'll be running the coasts and might need to make long runs on occasion. Either way if your running a smaller motor and not stressing it then it will have great efficiency.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:59 am**

He is correct the flat hull is more efficient. Add a keel, strakes, and spray rails on the edges to help in steering and maintaining straight line way on.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:03 am**

TomW1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:59 am He is correct the flat hull is more efficient. Add a keel, strakes, and spray rails on the edges to help in steering and maintaining straight line way on.

Tom

So why would anything be built on a “displacement hull” then?

I’m not trying to be argumentative. Just want to understand. I’ve always read/learned/been told that displacement hulls were the most efficient because the immersed transom on a planing boat creates drag at displacement speeds. Has physics changed over the last few years? (That last one was in jest.)

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:17 am**

Xf22 requires too much horsepower with 70 at Mertens low end recommended.

The gt23 is a great design with a larger displacement houseboat hull option.

The xf22 is the wrong hull for what he wants.

Build a gt23 houseboat version; power it with the old evinrude 18 until you decide or must replace.

I had an old Evinrude 18 and it died when I forgot to add oil to a 6 gallon tank fill up. Broke the crank right in half.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:26 am**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:03 am
TomW1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:59 am He is correct the flat hull is more efficient. Add a keel, strakes, and spray rails on the edges to help in steering and maintaining straight line way on.

Tom
So why would anything be built on a “displacement hull” then?

I’m not trying to be argumentative. Just want to understand. I’ve always read/learned/been told that displacement hulls were the most efficient because the immersed transom on a planing boat creates drag at displacement speeds. Has physics changed over the last few years? (That last one was in jest.)

Jbo

A displacement hull is not designed for speed, but for loading. Big people, water tanks, waste tanks, kitchen sink, kitchen stove. Sure, a planing hull can have all that, but the engine power requirements are great and then fuel burn is as well.

A planing hull is not right for your plan. Tom is mistaken, but he is a great guy and offers lotsa help on props for people and we can give him a break here.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:57 am**

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:17 am
The gt23 is a great design with a larger displacement houseboat hull option.

I had an old Evinrude 18 and it died when I forgot to add oil to a 6 gallon tank fill up. Broke the crank right in half.

Interestingly, both the GT hulls have immersed transoms/are planing hulls unless I’m very mistaken. I’m actually considering considering a GT27 build when I retire depending on physical ability and monetary comfort level.

Love my little 18. It’s been going as long as I have. I’d be heartbroken to lose it.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:08 am**

I don’t think transom immersion defines planing or displacement. If it did sailboat hulls designers would have a lot of explaining for how many are incorrectly designed.

The shortest answer is that the hull shape, things like planned rocker vs flat to transom, is what differentiates planing vs displacement. Jacques has often commented that planing hulls can be displacement hulls much much easier than displacement hulls can be used as in planing hulls. His advice in the past has been to ask his direct advice on how to use a planer in displacement context.

I’m not sure if Jacques would approve of the XF as a displacement platform but it seems to me that it would be easier to build and hence worth asking Jacques about.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:46 am**

Jaysen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:08 am I don’t think transom immersion defines planing or displacement. If it did sailboat hulls designers would have a lot of explaining for how many are incorrectly designed.

The shortest answer is that the hull shape, things like planned rocker vs flat to transom, is what differentiates planing vs displacement.

I understand the difference. But folks here keep recommending I use a hull designed for planing for a program plan for displacement, which just doesn’t make sense to me, so I’m trying to understand why.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:23 am**

I wouldn't say transom immersion is necessarily what defines a planing boat per se but an immersed transom generates a lot of drag and I can't think of anything designed to run at displacement speeds with an immersed transom other than a barge.

If you look at the same boat in planing and displacement forms...say Ross Lillistone's Fleet and Flint - the big difference is that one has enough rocker at the stern to pull the transom out of the water. If you leave it in, it's going to suck, literally.

An immersed transom needs enough speed for the water to separate cleanly. That's not normally part of displacement operation, and definitely not on any typical hull form that I can think of. Maybe there's some freak boats out there that are exceptions, I'm not sure. But generally speaking, if you leave the transom in the water, it means that until the boat begins to plane you're dealing with a lot of suction on the transom.

You sometimes hear guys saying something like "the transom dries out at 11 knots" - this is essentially a description of planing.

Of course you can chug around in a planing boat - I sometimes do in my deep V pig. The xf would be way more efficient than that.

But a true displacement form, even more so.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:35 am**

Anyway in regards to this particular boat, I know that the tendency here is always going to be to steer people to one of the existing plans. I do think that the plans here are very good and owning a set or two is worthwhile from a study perspective.

But if you want something not quite identical to what's available here, for sure, design something yourself. There's always Dave Gerr's scantlings (which are total overkill on small boats), experience and imitation to guide you. People get really wrapped around the axle that you need every number worked out to five decimal places and every detail accounted for.

I would totally agree on any boat that will cross oceans or hit 50 knots or something.

A shanty boat in protected waters? Keep the weight down low. Look at proven scantlings from someone like Gerr. Enjoy the process. I find it really rewarding.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:28 pm**

cracked_ribs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:23 am I wouldn't say transom immersion is necessarily what defines a planing boat per se but an immersed transom generates a lot of drag and I can't think of anything designed to run at displacement speeds with an immersed transom other than a barge.

If you look at the same boat in planing and displacement forms...say Ross Lillistone's Fleet and Flint - the big difference is that one has enough rocker at the stern to pull the transom out of the water. If you leave it in, it's going to suck, literally.

An immersed transom needs enough speed for the water to separate cleanly. That's not normally part of displacement operation, and definitely not on any typical hull form that I can think of. Maybe there's some freak boats out there that are exceptions, I'm not sure. But generally speaking, if you leave the transom in the water, it means that until the boat begins to plane you're dealing with a lot of suction on the transom.

You sometimes hear guys saying something like "the transom dries out at 11 knots" - this is essentially a description of planing.

Of course you can chug around in a planing boat - I sometimes do in my deep V pig. The xf would be way more efficient than that.

But a true displacement form, even more so.

Thanks, Cracked.

Those are the points I was trying(perhaps unsuccessfully) to make.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:28 pm**

Well nobody is obligated to agree with me, but I think you have a good point! You could totally motor the XF around on a small engine - I have no problem pushing my two ton deep V with a 9.9 - but it's not ideal and if you want to design something yourself anyway, why not?

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:35 pm**

Well said CR it is his boat to build. I was trying to get him a proven hull to build that would get him off to a great start and hold his shanty. jbo just make sure your confident in your scantlings, weight and flotation calculations. Your PPI should be closer to the XF22 at 627lbs than the HDM19 displacement at 320lbs my last advice to you.

Good building and good luck.

.Tom

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:07 pm**

Yeah that's a fair point about the XF22 - at least it's got all the scantlings totally ready to go and you know the parts will fit. It's not a bad choice at all.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:33 pm**

I do really appreciate everybody’s help. Can’t wait to start the build.

Already 5 pages into my thread and don’t have the wood yet.

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:45 am**

Buy this one.

All ready to go hull.

viewtopic.php?p=491610#p491610

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:13 pm**

Too much done, WAYYY too big a motor(that I wouldn’t know what to do with). Nice that it has a trailer already, though.

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:15 pm**

Sell the motor and acquire something sized to your liking. Motors are gold plated based on the current market valuations. You might even come out ahead on the deal.

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:00 pm**

jbo agree with Jaysen motors are hard to find and new ones are on hold for 4 months or more out. You should have no problem selling. Tom

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:46 pm**

Probably get a hull for nothing. Barry jist wants to sell to someone who will build. It is the planing version, but it'll work fine with the 18hp.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:35 pm**

After lots of deliberation, I’ve decided I need to pass on that one, Fallguy. It’s a good deal for somebody who’s looking for an open/deck boat type concept, I think. But just not a good fit for my planned build-out and program.

Thanks for connecting us, though, Fallguy. It was hard to say no.

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:29 pm**

Some semirandom ramblings this afternoon. You guys seem to be hung up on submerged transoms and efficiency for some reason. Someone commented previously that not many displacement boats have submerged transoms, but that is not true around here. Nearly every houseboat, cruiser, and trawler in the US have submerged transoms, somewhat because adding to the waterline increases displacement speeds in a monohull and decreases draft. The only modern boats that I've noticed with so much rocker that the transom is out of the water are some sailboats. This is because they are designed to be powered, by wind obviously, from the middle of the hull instead of the stern. They need to be able to be able to rock and pivot. In this case if they have a small outboard it is just secondary propulsion.

Looking around at boat designs I wonder if you are looking at canal boats more then a house or shanty? The canal boats of europe are made to only move a limited amount, some are barges that have to be towed. They are designed to be tied off or anchored from both ends instead of swinging with the tide, and move at very slow speeds. The weight balance is central, so you often see front and rear decks with the cabin in the middle, or no decks at all.

Maybe post a few more examples of what you want, and more clearly define it's criteria. Are you looking more for fuel efficiency (very slow, but great fuel economy)? Looking for efficiency at a certain speed (a product more of waterline and power)? Looking to maximize speed with small power (not a good program for a monohull)? What draft numbers are you looking for? You likely answered much of this in part, but maybe reorganizing your thoughts in one post might get some additional traction.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:26 pm**

I’m looking for efficiency at low speeds. Maybe sailboat accommodations and pace in a power boat. A short, fat canal boat is pretty much my plan. This boat is for exploring sloughs and slow rivers for long weekends. - maybe spend some time on the Tenn-Tom.

Hesitant to post a lot about other designs out of respect for the plans/designers offered here. Here is a description of a design similar to my plan “ Is real estate getting too pricey for that waterfront cabin you’ve always dreamed about? Then consider one of these houseboats as an alternative. While not meant for anything fast, foul, or furious, they make a perfect retreat for anchoring a spell in your favorite backwater cove, or for moseying along protected waters in search of game, fish, sights, or solitude.”

My wood is due to hit the distribution center tomorrow. Got a couple of house projects to finish before I can make the first cut, but I’m moving forward.

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:22 pm**

You may find out quickly that slow and efficient can be fine in static canals and lakes, but can give you trouble on a river. Fighting flow and wind can mean little momentum if any at all. Make sure you have enough power reserves to forge ahead. It's better to have it and not need it...

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:57 am**

Agreed. Will definitely have to plan for wind and current when those will be factors.

This boat will be used in many of the same places and ways that I use a canoe or kayak, only with more room and comfort and no need to sleep ashore under a tarp or in a tent, so speed shouldn’t be a big concern.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:05 pm**

jbo ran your shanty boat at 4500lbs again through my calculators once again. A 6HP is not feasible, only 5 mph at top speed and no remote steering on either Mercury or Yamaha motors. A 9.9HP is a little better with a top speed at 8-9mph and the possibility of remote steering. That will give you an efficient cruise of 5-6mph. In my opinion the Yamaha 9.9 with remote steering would be the best motor for you. Dependable and allow you if needed to go over higher currents and tides.

Well good luck with your build and post pictures.

Regards, Tom

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:50 pm**

Thanks, Tom. I was thinking one of the Bigfoot motors would be a good call long term. Realistically, it will be an old 2 stroke to start with.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:10 pm**

TomW1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:05 pm jbo ran your shanty boat at 4500lbs again through my calculators once again. A 6HP is not feasible, only 5 mph at top speed and no remote steering on either Mercury or Yamaha motors. A 9.9HP is a little better with a top speed at 8-9mph and the possibility of remote steering. That will give you an efficient cruise of 5-6mph. In my opinion the Yamaha 9.9 with remote steering would be the best motor for you. Dependable and allow you if needed to go over higher currents and tides.

Well good luck with your build and post pictures.

Regards, Tom

Be careful to make sure the prop can be big enough... the big beef for me on my kicker is the prop size is limited to the shaft to cav plate dimension.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:30 am**

But is 9.9hp enough to push 4500lbs against a light wind, say 10mph, once you take the windage into consideration? This is what you need to work out before you choose your power.

If you haven't yet, I would go to boatdesign.net and post up your questions on the forum. Many of the guys there are experienced designers and naval architects.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:19 pm**

No Silentneko a 9.9HP only gives him a max speed of 9-10mph top speed as I explained in my post.

But it is his build and he wants it to be low powered. I forgot about wind so thanks as I was only thinking about water effects.

So thanks.

Regards, Tom

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:22 am**

Good points. On the plus side, at least initially, it will be fitted with an 18hp(because I own it already). I can use performance there to inform my choice.

Horsepower is not the primary consideration. I just would like to use the least that provides satisfactory performance. The 18 I have is a family “heirloom” that I have no other use for, so if it’s the right fit, that would be more than fine. However I don’t want to use it so badly that I’d spend double on fuel over what I’d get with a 9.9.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 pm**

Keep in mind that that 18hp is very inefficient. I had a 18hp fast twin long ago, but only used it for a short time before upgrading. My 20hp yamaha 4-stroke got almost twice the mileage as the 18hp 2-stroke. Prop selection helped a bit since there's not much out there for the 18hp.

Actually my new 60hp tohatsu does pretty well despite being more then 3x the power. Cruising I think I'm getting around 12mpg with my FS17.

Just for info purposes, that little houseboat we rented had a 40hp Etec on it. It pushed the boat to a max of 6.5mph no matter the RPM, but it was climbing and tossing a huge wake. It was pretty happy at 5.5mph. We went I think 37 miles total, but only burnt maybe 3.5 gallons of fuel. Thats pretty fuel efficient to me. Not sure what your target numbers are.

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:51 pm**

Yes. My burn with the 18 will be about 1.5 gph based on past experience. Funny thing is, it’s pretty much the same whether at idle or 75%. Wot uses a little more.

So I don’t plan on using it long term, but it will put me on the water so I can shop for the permanent power plant at my leisure.

We’re working on our trip one of the two weeks surrounding Thanksgiving. I appreciate your turning me on to that place. I’m looking forward to it.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:18 am**

silentneko wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 pm
Just for info purposes, that little houseboat we rented had a 40hp Etec on it. It pushed the boat to a max of 6.5mph no matter the RPM, but it was climbing and tossing a huge wake. It was pretty happy at 5.5mph.

Which, again, begs the question for me: Why bother putting a 40 on it? A 15 or likely even a 10 would have pushed it as well.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:26 am**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:18 am
silentneko wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 pm
Just for info purposes, that little houseboat we rented had a 40hp Etec on it. It pushed the boat to a max of 6.5mph no matter the RPM, but it was climbing and tossing a huge wake. It was pretty happy at 5.5mph.
Which, again, begs the question for me: Why bother putting a 40 on it? A 15 or likely even a 10 would have pushed it as well.

Jbo

Short answer: sometimes you are fighting more than just the bow hump.

The displacement hull can’t beat the hump. That limits max speed. This is “hull speed”. But what does it take to beat a 10mph wind on the nose? Now you need to beat that BEFORE the HP is limited by the hump.

This is the problem with high wind profile boats and low HP. My Helms only need a 4hp motor to make hull speed. It needs 6hp to make headway in a 25mph wind. Hence the 9.9 two smoke on her transom.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:32 am**

Yeah, but a 40 is a big bump in largely protected water with a .3mph current flow. I just think we get obsessed with bigger for the sake of bigger sometimes

For instance, I’m still struggling with building this boat at 22’ rather than the 20’ I originally planned. 2’ isn’t much, but do I really NEED it?

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54 pm**

It's not really bigger for the sake of just being, it's an efficiency of machinery too. Can it move with a 10hp, yes, but will it move against wind and current, maybe. However at what RPM? If you are running a small motor near WOT just to move at non planing speeds it will burn a lot of fuel, foul, and have a short life cycle. Since you only have a single motor you have to protect its reliability and serviceability.

Many times you can get better MPG out of a larger motor at half throttle, and longer life, then a smaller motor at higher RPM. And you have reserve power. 40hp may be overkill, but as you go up in motor class you also get better torque and much better prop selection or lower unit choice.

Also look at the motor class. For instance the 40-50-60hp motors mostly use similar blocks, so I went with the 60hp over the 50 for my FS. It added no weight, a 20% bump in power, and helps when we load down the boat for scalloping trips.

Most 9.9's are the limit of that class. 15hp is typically the same as 20hp, same with 25-30hp.

As far as 2ft bigger goes, I've never heard anyone say I should have built my boat smaller, lol. You never heard of 2ft-itis?

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:28 pm**

For Suzuki and Tohatsu the 9.9 is shared with 15 and 20 blocks. May as well get the 20.

My 6hp kicker pushes the ~4000lb DE25 to hull speed in calm water, but that is for emergency use only. For long term I’d pick something with a larger prop, and better prop selection available.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:41 pm**

As a person who is trying to get a program together to sail around the world in a 19' sailboat, you don't need to convince me that "bigger ISN'T better". The reality though is that you need to be able to get out of your own way in more conditions than just the current. The biggest factor for most displacement boats is wind. My guess is that you will find the 18hp more than enough for hull speed and HOPEFULLY oversized for winds up to about 20mph. My gut says that a modern 15hp propped down will get you what you want. If you can find a 9.9 two-stroke that is jet upgradeable to 15+ ... that's your sweet spot. Problem with those ugly turds is that they are noisy and messy.

Big things I would look for:
1. 2cyl motor: more torque for displacement hull
2. Larger prop shaft (standard with 2cyl) with a LARGE space between shaft and cav plate. This will let you prop up larger if needed.
3. remote throttle/steer and electric start. not all outboards have capacity for remote throttle and/or steering.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:55 pm**

silentneko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54 pm As far as 2ft bigger goes, I've never heard anyone say I should have built my boat smaller, lol. You never heard of 2ft-itis?

Absolutely nobody ever wishes a boat, barn, patio, or workshop was smaller. I tell people that all the time.

I’m just trying really hard to resist. I know from my past experience that the smaller and simpler it is, the more likely I am to use it more often.

If it weren’t for some “have-to’s” from my wife, this boat would be 18 feet, but making a boat she won’t enjoy enough to share with me regularly is a non-starter, so it has grown.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:56 pm**

All good points, Jaysen. Thanks for the feedback.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:43 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:55 pm
silentneko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:54 pm As far as 2ft bigger goes, I've never heard anyone say I should have built my boat smaller, lol. You never heard of 2ft-itis?
Absolutely nobody ever wishes a boat, barn, patio, or workshop was smaller. I tell people that all the time.

I’m just trying really hard to resist. I know from my past experience that the smaller and simpler it is, the more likely I am to use it more often.

If it weren’t for some “have-to’s” from my wife, this boat would be 18 feet, but making a boat she won’t enjoy enough to share with me regularly is a non-starter, so it has grown.

Jbo

I think you could fit what you want into a 20ft package, or even an 18, if you only ever intend for 2 people to be on board. That said the 18ft we rented had a tendency to wonder a bit as it was short and fat. An extra few feet of waterline would make it cruise better and more efficiently.

My plans are for 22ft, but with a euro transom for a generator. Instead of a 20ft with a swim platform/motor bracket. More waterline to increase speed and reduce draft.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:44 pm**

What’s a euro-transom?

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:55 pm**

I’m all ears for ideas if you can fit it into 20’.

Must have:

Full time(not folding) full sized bed(in-line, not transverse)
Fully enclosed(no curtain) stand up head
4’ reclining area on deck
Stand up galley
Outside(front) helm
Room at transom to futz with motor if necessary
And, of course, room for stores and kit for several days

Admittedly, some of this incorporates my have-to’s as well. I can make it work in 22’ but can’t squeeze it into 20’ without compromising one of these.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:12 pm**

I keep coming back to the idea of a pontoon/tritoon platform. The biggest problem would be keeping the 'toons from being overloaded. That's when the barge seems better, but I think going with something that is a well-established, wide, and square platform would make your goal much easier.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:23 pm**

A barge is a pretty much what I’m building.

Jbo

Posted: **Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:20 am**

I say build what you want and make it as big as it needs to be. I would not try to save two foot and then not have the room you need.

Posted: **Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:34 am**

Wood arrived from BBC. Probably start cutting Labor Day weekend.

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:46 am**

I'm waiting and watching!

Please post pictures!

Posted: **Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:52 pm**

Can’t wait to post pics.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:05 am**

jbo sounds like you have made some wise choices. Build on and post lots of pics now that you know how. Tom

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:58 pm**

Got a few fiberglass splices done today. 6 more and I can go 3D.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:00 pm**

Hmm. Apparently screwed up adding the pics. I’ll try again.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:36 am**

If the weather holds. I could be 3D by this time next week. We’ll see.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:42 pm**

Go for it jbo, I'm watching how our shanty boat works out. It should be great.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:44 pm**

Double, triple, and quadruple checked for level and square.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:47 pm**

Hmmm. Seems I forget from one post to another how to do pictures. I have the memory of a starfish when it comes to technology.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:52 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:47 pm Hmmm. Seems I forget from one post to another how to do pictures. I have the memory of a starfish when it comes to technology.

Jbo

What you want for phone gallary is the IMAGE tag and just the image ID.

Like this

Code: Select all

[image]8982[/image]

Posted: **Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:02 am**

Funny, but when I opened the page the image didn't show, it just said something like "img 8982". I clicked on it and the image opened by itself, when I clicked to go back to the thread the image was visible in the post. Quirky, but it works.

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:02 pm**

Hopefully get the bottom glassed by the end of the week. - maybe Saturday all wet on wet.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:16 am**

Looks like you have a fair sized glassing session ahead of you. I am sure you know having some help will make life much better.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:12 am**

Help would be great. Unfortunately, it will be just me. Fortunately will be cool to slow down kicking.

I’m just trying to figure out how long it will take me to wet out the fabric so I have an idea the length of my day.

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:16 pm**

Eat a big breakfast, you are going to be there a while

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:52 am**

Well, wet on wet went out the window due to some obligations this weekend, but I did get a third of it done.

24’x50” of 9oz biax done alone in about 2 hours and 15 minutes. Literally spent half the time mixing, so a helper would have made it just over an hour of work.

I enlisted my son to knock out the remainder with me Saturday morning. “Trading” him for some tile work he needs help with.

Jbo

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:11 am**

When I saw your post yesterday I thought, "Heck, I would do it in thirds". I did the LB22 in halves and it's been no problems at all.

Dougster

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:13 am**

jbo,

I too am interested in a shanty boat style craft. The GT27 is beautiful but to ambitious a project (right now) and actually the GT23 is large too. I have been looking at a canal boat plan that is 18' and have looked at the 20' design you posted earlier. That designer also has several garvey type hulls he puts a cabin on too. Then I found this site and am getting dizzy with the amount of choices here. I learned a lot from this thread so figured I would share a bit of my own musings in case they are of use.

My size limitation is partly due to garage, hull budget, motor budget and tow vehicle rated for 3500lbs. I am in upstate NY, very close to the Erie Canal, several canals in Canada and small lakes. So I am not looking for speed. Will go with newer motor instead of faster speed. My intent is similar to yours to use this as a floating RV. I too am a backpacker and am looking for something to find out of the way places to overnight in, sipping a cup of coffee while listening to the loons.

Standing room: I would prefer a low profile to reduce windage on the water and the highway. There are a few designs that provide standing headroom in the center aisle and not over the seating area. The roof is arched or slanted. I am also intrigued by "pop tops" commonly found on Catalina sailboats and also on the 1970's vintage "hunter compact jr" RV trailer and current Meerkat trailers. To me it reduces weight and windage.

Head: Yes, my princess wants a throne. Like yours she is adamant about walls rather than curtains. The small Roadtrek van campers have bathrooms configured in such a way that when you open the door to the cubby the door locks in place across the aisle. So you are half covered. Depending on location of head in floor plan this may be enough, like if it is pushed back with rear bulkhead. I am amazed at the variety of portable heads - composting and what not, but my princess spec's her throne out with moving water - the Thetford Curve model has caught her eye. Honestly, we have this boat design backwards. Should send the marine architect the measurements of such a throne and say "here, build a boat around this." I would include a folding shelf or closet rod in the airspace above the head. I suspect the onboar head would be used sparingly and am overly cheap with the space usage. I could see hooks for duffle bags, easily tossed aside as needed.

Side decks: So my boat will have to be easily trailered. I subscribe to the same viewpoint as you - smaller the boat greater the use. I would love to push the interior space out to the max trailer width but also want more deck space. One designer seems to have folding elbows that swing out and accept a simple platform or grating as a narrow (6"?) side deck. Hey - that increases width 1'!

Intrigued by the GT27 landing craft bow ramp as well. A proper swim deck on an outboard can be tricky but who says it must be at the stern?

Many shanty boats include a small wood burning stove. Some designers fit this in so it is seasonal - not taking up space on hot summer days but doing a great job of extending the season. With proper ventilation I will start out with a buddy type propane heater. There are marine stoves, wood or propane, but their installs look fixed. I have the heater so intend to use it. Can install CO and smoke detector.

The 18' canal cruiser I admire has berths set up like a sailboat. The berths extend under the decking. The canal boat extends them under the fore deck, sailboats of course extend them under the rear. My princess affectionately calls these "wooden coffins." But it is an easy way to have two separate berths dedicated. With my sailboats I found the under deck portion of the berths made great places to throw your duffle bag too during day sails.

I saw a powerboat design for a V berth I like. Instead of the traditional v-berth separated by bulkhead from the cabin it was open. At the helm you could put your foot on the v-berth. Van campers commonly have extend-a-bed functionality where a bench pulls out to a berth and I can see something like this on my boat but understand it does not pass your dedicated requirement. I also like the RV style flip out sofas (RV Sofas)to quickly transform day space to night space. Again, I understand this is not in your spec.

AC would be luxurious. There are spots on the Erie canal that offer electrical hook ups. So my intent would be to cut out for a window unit that could be installed when not venturing off grid. I would also however look into energy efficient RV style windows (dual pane and tinted). Expensive I know - an alternative could be simple awnings to keep the solar impact low. Could go with something simple like car windshield reflectors too. The composite nature of designs on this site lend themselves well to an insulated roof too. I thought of two simple dc powered vents, one probably in the head area. Set them up to push/pull air. White reflective roof, possibly some insulation there. Prevent as much heat from getting in with passive methods.

This site sells composite panels. I am unfamiliar with their use but am intrigued about possible weight savings for interior bulkheads or fixtures. If you wanted to go a bit crazy you could design the cabin as an empty box and then handle the interior furnishings with aluminum strut building systems like 80/20. Would enable you to reconfigure your living space as needed to some extent. I think I built to many forts with giant tinker toys as a youth.

Electronics on board may be simplified by one of the units sold to the outdoor crowd that regularly plug into solar panels. Goal Yeti is one such vendor. I think such a unit is more expensive than wiring your own panel, outlets, etc but for me the advantages of it being so portable might outweigh that.

I toy with the idea of an electric outboard with spare battery. Charging while I am at work, ready to play. But I do not know enough yet to give up on a trusty dino fuel OB. I would also include one or two stand up paddleboard paddles.

I see a lot of "counter space" dedicated to kitchen activity in boats and campers. Elaborate slide out mechanisms, hammered copper sinks, electric faucets. This is all nice but when I backpack I set my trusty alky stove on a flat rock and start brewing. I can see a folding or removable counter occupying the airspace above seating or storage. A collapsible basin maybe for the dishes - out of site out of mind. A sink with faucet would be great but in an 18' boat the kitchen and head should share such extravagance.

They sell simple butane can cook top units but I also have a trusty trangia Alky stove. Wish to avoid running propane lines I think.

I see the portable DC fridges but will start out with yee-olde-ice-chest. Probably two. One for casual access and one set up for longevity. I could build this in with proper foam paneling and such but my old Precision sailboat actually had an ice check with teak across the lid that doubled as a step/bench. Dual functionality you know.

Lost on hull shape. Leaning towards garvey. Like the low power requirements of pontoons but it increases the air draft to much for towing and on water. I did see a cat with a pop-DOWN floor section but view that as overly complex. I see you started with the trusty barge footprint and that I think is where I am headed too. Super intrigued by the inverted-V TX 18 but I think I like it because it is different and that is not the best way to go about this.

So thanks again for information in your thread, I look forward to seeing updates. I hope you can use one or two of the above ideas. Sorry to getting long winded.

John

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:20 pm**

Just a heads up on garage building. I was working on a design for a shanty the other day, and interior height got me stumped a bit. I'm 6'3", so I'd want at least 6'6" of standing height in the center, but 7ft would be better. I also want at least 6" stringers. Combined with coring and insulation, that puts me well over 7ft. It's still a very small profile, but on top of a trailer, we are at 9ft plus. I'll have an RV style roof AC as I hate window shakers in a small space, so I'm 10ft+.

I say all this because most shops have a "10ft door. " that really only measures 9.5ft and only if you can pull in level. Measure your garages, where it will be stored, and then figure out the build process.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:38 pm**

Also here's a good video series about live-aboards and shantys. He's still making videos, but has 10 or so up right now.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9 ... BEHsAJuqxR

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:13 pm**

Thanks for all the prose, John. Sounds like you and I think a lot a like. I enjoyed the read and already have in mind implementing several things at least along the lines of things you propose. I’ll keep posting, though work is probably halted until March or so when I’ll kick back into gear.

Good point about heights, Neko. There’s a fun family story here about when my grandfather built a boat in the house stairwell in the 40’s, then had to cut it in half to get it out of the house.

I do like that Idyllic Dreams series. I appreciate his sense of humor.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:17 pm**

Finally at a point where I can start working on the shanty again. I got some cypress cut down to make some runners for the bottom to help with tracking. Wanted to install this weekend but had rain forecast the whole time. Didn’t end up raining. Wish I’d installed the runners.

But . . .

Saw a listing on the local marketplace for an old(1967) Evinrude 18hp same as my “family heirloom” engine - only with electric start!!! It’s in my barn now. Picked it up for $100 and will get parts that would have cost me close to $800 for mine and I can convert to electric start. So, while not ideal, my old family outboard will definitely spend at least the first few seasons as primary power for the shanty.

Now, to actually get it ready to go on the water . . .

Need to install the runners, do “a little” fairing, coat with graphite, and flip. Thinking(hoping) if I can get it flipped before fall that I’ll be able to actually get some work done on our warmer winter days so I can launch not too late into next spring/summer.

The best paid plans . . .

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:17 pm**

As I started building another boat last week I've been reading through posts catching up, as I've been absent from the board for quite a while. It's nice to see many builds that I previously watched have now hit the water and some other exciting projects are on the go - this being one of them.

I find this a very interesting build and your program sounds similar to what I want in a retirement boat one day in years to come.

Keep the updates and pics coming, looking forward to your progress.

Cam.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:33 pm**

Will do. - and I hope not to disappoint(either of us).

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:05 pm**

Ended up rehabbing a house for my daughter and her husband, so not much done this year. There’s a VERY small chance I finish it to the point of flipping it if we have a warm lead in to the rest of winter.

But I did get runners installed.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:26 pm**

Well, crap. Finally mixed a bad batch of epoxy this weekend. The details are unimportant, so here they are:

My son came to help me and I was, of course, excited he would take time to come hang out with Dad. I’m 99.9% sure the first batch after he arrived and we were visiting/catching up/talking plans was mixed 1:1 instead of 2:1. (By me.)

Happily/sadly the goal for the night was to glass the compound joints where the runners meet the hull. The first batch was the neat epoxy to go down before we started glassing. So the three layers of glass we put down were “floating” on a thin film of never-going-to-cure epoxy.

Confirmed this afternoon when I got home from church. The glass was all nicely cured but (with lots of effort) peeled off the runners/boat. Poop.

The “happy” part is that I wasn’t trying to glass the full runners, only the compound angles where the runners meet the boat. So the part(s) that had to be removed “only” amounted to four sections about 16” long.

Now to figure out how to get the uncured layer off so we can start them over.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:34 pm**

I give up. I’ve tried like 6 times to post the image and can’t make it happen.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:03 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:26 pm Well, crap. Finally mixed a bad batch of epoxy this weekend. The details are unimportant, so here they are:

My son came to help me and I was, of course, excited he would take time to come hang out with Dad. I’m 99.9% sure the first batch after he arrived and we were visiting/catching up/talking plans was mixed 1:1 instead of 2:1. (By me.)

Happily/sadly the goal for the night was to glass the compound joints where the runners meet the hull. The first batch was the neat epoxy to go down before we started glassing. So the three layers of glass we put down were “floating” on a thin film of never-going-to-cure epoxy.

Confirmed this afternoon when I got home from church. The glass was all nicely cured but (with lots of effort) peeled off the runners/boat. Poop.

The “happy” part is that I wasn’t trying to glass the full runners, only the compound angles where the runners meet the boat. So the part(s) that had to be removed “only” amounted to four sections about 16” long.

Now to figure out how to get the uncured layer off so we can start them over.

Jbo

jbp acetone is the best thing to wipe off the uncured epoxy. Try to scrape off what you can first then glove and mask up and wipe off the rest of it. Tom

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:11 pm**

jbo_c wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:34 pm I give up. I’ve tried like 6 times to post the image and can’t make it happen.

Jbo

Fixed

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:31 pm**

Thanks, Jaysen.

Posted: **Mon May 29, 2023 5:04 pm**

Finally back at it. Last of the glass is on the bottom. Some filling, sanding, and graphite and I can flip.

Not planing to spend too long on filling and sanding since it’s a “slow boat” anyway.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:44 am**

Think I’ve finally gotten the majority of my “bulk” fairing done. Fairing may not be the right word to use compared to the level of finish many here seem to do, more “smoothing”.

Already thinking maybe I should name the boat “Sand-y”.

Plugging along

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:44 pm**

Definitely interested in your build and am looking forward to more updates!

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:45 am**

Lots of sanding to do today and tomorrow. Then will graphite the bottom and put some high build primer on the sides and I’ll be ready to finally flip. - hopefully by next weekend.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:37 am**

Here is a cutaway profile view of the planned arrangement. It’s taken me a long time to settle on what I think will work and will look reasonably good.

Probably the biggest challenge was getting the helm outside while still allowing for protection from wind during cool/cold trips. I think the frame forward with a custom canvas will handle that in a very workable manner.

The only real issue I see at this point is that trim will be off to the stern with two of us in the bunk. Will have to see how much. Hoping it’s as simple to balance as moving a cooler to the front or maybe even just permanently mounting a house battery up front.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:21 pm**

jbo I like it. Don't know much about shanty boats but frames are normally no more than 4' apart not the 6' you show. Just a thought.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:41 pm**

Thanks, Tom. That is a nice complement coming from you.

Yes. Those lines were just to delineate “furnishings” to give a idea of the interior. Max distance between frames is 4’.

Thanks.

Jbo

Posted: **Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:24 pm**

I’m calling the sides ‘good enough’. All that’s left for “fairing” is a fill and sand to clean up the joint between the sides and the rub rail. If I can do that tomorrow, it’s high build primer for the area to be painted this week.

Then, if the weather cooperates next weekend, graphite for the bottom.

Jbo

Posted: **Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:10 pm**

Lookin good JBO

Posted: **Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:21 pm**

Graphite done. High build primer and painting the sides (hopefully) this week before the flip.

Jbo

Posted: **Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:49 pm**

Nice! Can’t wIt to see it continue to take shape!

Posted: **Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:30 pm**

Been traveling and missed a lot. Looking good!

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:44 am**

Nice work!! Jeff

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:33 am**

Looking good jbo. Tom

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:35 pm**

Really nice progress and job on your boat.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:10 am**

Getting some color on. Excited about that. Not as excited about the actual color, but my wife picked it and I’ve had trouble getting her involved, so . . .

This is the first coat. Will get two more, then a cut and polish before the flip.

I’m sure folks will ask, so I opted to go with Rustoleum Topsides paint with catalyst added. Had planned to roll and tip, but, honestly, there wasn’t anything to be tipped. It went on very well. It’s a little thick, as most Rustoleum is, but I didn’t have any issues with runs or sags.

I’m very pleased with the level of finish as it is. It’s not showroom by far, definitely workboat, but I think it’s appropriate to the style and even without cut and polish meets my standard for what I wanted. I think with C&P and some wax, it will exceed my expectations/intent. Let’s hope durability does the same.

Had to blend my own color since their paints are not tintable. This is Deep Green, Navy Blue, and Oyster White blended 1:1:1 to keep it easy to replicate for future repainting or touchups.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:06 pm**

I really like the color!

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:42 am**

Man that looks sharp! Great idea on how to get your wife involved and invested in the build too! Keep up the good work!

Posted: **Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:37 am**

Any more progress made jbo?

Posted: **Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:18 pm**

Not yet. Just layering paint and sanding between. Need to do one more coat when I get home this week and I’ll be ready to flip.

Jbo

Posted: **Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:14 pm**

jbo missed the earlier posts of your paint on the Shanty boat. It looks sharp!!! Tom

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:48 pm**

Thanks, Tom.

Got the last coat of paint on. I’m very happy with how it looks, though my preference would have been a dark color.

No pics because it looks the same as the previous coats did. But I’m going to cut and polish it after it has a couple of weeks to cure, so will post pics then.

For now, on to making a cradle that will roll with it when I flip. Hopefully will get some bulkheads in before the temps get too cold, but first I’m committed to some honey-dos before I move further.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:51 pm**

Thanks, Tom.

Got the last coat of paint on. I’m very happy with how it looks, though my preference would have been a dark color.

No pics because it looks the same as the previous coats did. But I’m going to cut and polish it after it has a couple of weeks to cure, so will post pics then.

For now, on to making a cradle that will roll with it when I flip. Hopefully will get some bulkheads in before the temps get too cold, but first I’m committed to some honey-dos before I move further.

Jbo

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:12 pm**

Finished polishing the paint. Very happy with the Rustoleum Topsides paint. The rolled paint was acceptable for the level of finish I wanted, but I had planned to cut and polish to get to that point, so it exceeded my expectations.

That said, since I had planned to cut and polish before, I decided to do it anyway. Process was 600 wet sand, good old Turtlewax polishing compound, then Meguiar’s Swirl Remover 2.0. Still has orange peel, but that’s me, not the paint. Again, really satisfied and I’m sure if I wanted better, the paint was up for it.

Here’s a before and after of the same corner(well, it seems to insist on posting “after and before”):

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:18 pm**

Nice jbo. Tom

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:10 pm**

That looks dang good

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:10 pm**

Thanks, y’all. Hopefully it holds up as well as it shines up.

Have my “crew” coming to flip on Sunday. Finally. The big day.

Jbo

Posted: **Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:31 pm**

The day finally arrived. Now working on making a plumb and level “cradle” so I can climb in and work on the inside.

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:36 pm**

Heck yea man! The ole “Flip” is a major mile stone! Looking good!

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:18 pm**

Good job! It is always nice to get that part in back of you.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:59 pm**

Good job jbo . Tom

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:27 pm**

Got most of the inside glassed today. A couple more days of 60F and no rain and I can have the whole inside hull finished before winter shuts me down. Then I can cut and assemble bulkheads in the barn over winter, making spring progress quick(for a while at least).

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:33 pm**

Really well done. I love the idea of a Shanty boat. You are going to have such a good time on that boat.

Posted: **Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:58 pm**

Got some bulkhead work done in the barn today. Was supposed to be warm enough later in the week I might install them this weekend, but now the forecast is 50s and rain. Maybe not, but glad I had weather to keep some bulkheads.

Jbo

Posted: **Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:10 pm**

Nice looking work.

You are two steps ahead of my build. I’m so close to a flip.

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