AD 14, question for Jacques

[bondo]

Gonandkarl, Jacques, I believe there is a problem with the plans. Gonandkarl, did you use the supplied pattern? At this point I became very frustrated. I will help you if you want. The topside of the centerboard trunk and the "C" frame form a right angle.

[gonandkarl]

Hallo Bondo ( and Jacques ),
Thanks for the info that you also had problems with the trunk. I definitely could not arrive at the von Jacques supplied picture with the red and yellow outlines of the trunk on full size measurements. He has drawn the trunk top practically parallel to the keel which does not coincide withe the supplied measurements. ( I made a full size plan of the trunk on tracing paper and established that. )
I decided to cut everything rather wide and arrived also at a right angle for the skew part at the top of the trunk
On the other side I had a good look at all your pictures of trunk and keel and I noticed you had a white board as a test centerboard. Did you use it until you were sure that trunk and keel fit together correctly or also to define the right position of the pivot ? ( I dont believe quite in the position per plan ).

I dont know how far down the centerboard should go because this can influence the position of the pivot. If one let the keel go down that it hangs underneath the pivot then the straight side after the radius should not press punctual but over the whole length against the forward batten of the trunk. Is that correct ? ( The building instructions talk only of all the way up and half way down in connexion with the locking holes. )

Next centerboard question: Did you actually install the short ss bar I think it is called painter in the middle board of the 3 boards that are laminated to make the keel ?

I am glad you will be able to carry on finishing your boat in the existing shed even that you have to travel between new home a roadhouse and the shed, because it is very important for all Bateau builders to get all the info and pictures of your boat before
the splashing. Nowhere else will I find an answer to problems of building an AD14. I actually think you are the first one to build and finish an AD14. Keep up the good and exemplary work.

Greetings from Karl ( Austria )

[bondo]

Try to be patient. The designer will say the plans are fine. (on his computer the plans are good) You will try to scale the plans but you will not be given a scale to work with. So you are left with just a picture. But we can still get it! Do not cut anything more yet. You are on the right track with using a paper pattern. I was able to make the bad parts work. I don't have my plans with me but look at the side view. The top of the trunk and the top of the centerboard are supposed to be parallel. Maybe 1/8" between them. Let's start elsewhere.

For a moment look at Jacques design as lines and not measurements. The sole is obviously a level line. It is also your "baseline" from making the parts. And it is much more than that. If you keep the concept that the sole/baseline is a flat and level plain then you can make everything easy to verify. You can build any kind of cradle on any kind of crooked surface you choose just so that your sole/baseline is level all ways. If you are always working toward a flat level sole/baseline you will eliminate twist, you can fine tune frame levels, you can set the centerboard trunk correctly. You don't have to be perfect, but if you try you will always know you are close. A flat level line for our baseline/our sole means that when our boat is built and in the water we could in theory set a level down on the sole and see if we are balanced. The designer placed the sole level all ways when the boat is on her lines. (not surprising) Sorry if I am overdoing this. Before I get away from lines notice that the seat tops are also level with the world. This all goes back to the baseline concept. When you set your stringers for a flat/level sole your seat tops of the stringers will be close to perfect. If your parts aren't perfect not to worry. You keep working things back toward a level sole/level stringer tops. (the seat tops/stringers are important because of the nice changing camber of the cockpit seats.) I know I am overdoing this sole/baseline thing but bear with me. Fit the boat to its trailer with the sole level. Make the mast plumb by knowing the sole/baseline is level. Also the window tops are level. Up close you may not be able to tell but on the water from a distance you will be disappointed if the seat tops and window lines disagree with each other. Btw. I don't know how you intend your windows but the bottom of mine look/finish at the same elevation as the seat tops. (you actually need to curve the bottom up a little. If you finish flat it looks pinched)

[bondo]

Adding to the above post the window tops are in line with the tip of the bow. Sorry! I couldn't edit the previous post. I want to mention that I am obviously not trying to say what Jacques intended with his design. Only he knows best. I am throwing out thoughts from my point of view. I will say there are few other mistakes on the plan (the mast should be raked 5 degrees, not 2 as printed) also keep in mind that Jacques would help if he believed there was a mistake. And one other thing. The sixteens seem to be fine. Only two fourteen footers that we know of and both have a similar complaint.

[bondo]

Now back to it Gonandkarl. One of the frustrating things for me was I couldn't say exactly where it had gone wrong. If I recall I had three issues. The angle of the top of the trunk was wrong. If you "retracted" the centerboard it would hit "c" frame. And I believe the pivot location was off as you suggested. Before I prattle on, does any of this sound like what you have? Did you use the paper pattern from the plans? Another thought about the level sole/baseline. The centerboard top (retracted) is level. The centerboard bottom leading edge is level and parallel with the top (retracted). The keel shoe should finish parallel with the others. All of these elements are level with the world and therefore you have an important yet easy guideline to work with. I will try to answer more of your specific questions later.

[jacquesmm]

I wonder if the full size patterns are printed correctly. Check a dimension, a long one if possible.
We had a few of those problems: discrepancy between full size and dimensions because the printer automatically adjusted the patterns to fit a certain size of papers.
(It's the week-end, I'll check some printed plans in the office on Monday).

[bondo]

Oh, hey Jacques. Yes I believe the pattern is a part of the problem. Some compression took place in printing. Happened with the Sb18 keels too.

[jacquesmm]

That may be it.
Question: if you work only from the dimensions, does everything fit?

[bondo]

If I recall, it wasn't that simple. There were a few conflicts with the parts. The overall length was good. Some angles in the trunk were wrong, and the centerboard/painter wing would hit "C" frame when retracted.

[jacquesmm]

Here is another picture extracted from the plans:

It shows how the CB fits in the trunk.
It is designed with the tip of the CB sticking out in the cockpit. There is not cover over that slot in the cockpit. It is well above the waterline.
As an option, one can close that slot.
One of the holes you see at the top of the tip of the CB is to put a pin trough and lock it in the up position.
The top of the CB in the trunk butts against the top of the inside part of the trunk.
We want everything to be very tight in the up position, safer in bad weather.

Looking at the picture, besides the tip that stick out, what other parts do not match?

Each time I answer a question, I check against the plans and while I admit that sometimes a dimension is missing or not clear, I see that CB fitting in the trunk and I sincerely wonder where the problem is.
One possible problem that we discovered a few messages above is that the printer may have slightly scaled the full size patterns. Or that they shrunk or moved . . . I hate those patterns but for the rest, I still don't see what doesn't match.