Page 1 of 1

TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:06 pm
by Vundu
Hi Guys,
I am not sure if this is the right place to voice these questions as they cover foam core materials and some design advice. Appologies in advance if this is incorrectly placed. So.. here goes.
History:
A couple of years ago I placed a question about building a TX 18 using foam core, with the advice recieved I opted to build with ply as no one was in a position to give me a definite laminating schedule. This went well, and now I would like to build another, but with some mods.

1) I am going to go up to 115hp Merc, which is +-90lbs heavier than the recomended 60hp max. Reason being this is what I already have.
2) lift the sole to allow for some under floor storage (4- 6 inches).
3) Raise the sheer (4-6 inches).
4) Increasing the hull size by 7% in all aspects, (as that keeps the beam within our trailering width laws).

My foam core questions are:
1) Can I build the stringers, ribs and sole out of a foam core material, keeping the rest of the hull ply. The stringers and ribs would be deeper than currently designed (to allow for storage) and therefore stronger??. If yes, is there any advice what the laminating schedules should be and core material used?

Non foam core question.
I would think that with such a flat bottomed hull a main reason not to increase HP is the posibility of a blow out on a sharp turn. Would adding a single or a pair of strakes have a potential benefit?

Thanks very much for taking the time to read this.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:04 pm
by jacquesmm
I am glad to hear that you like your TX18 but can we have a performance report and some pictures?

Some of your questions are easy to answer, others not.
Let's start with the easy ones.

Scale by 7%: no problem at all.

Raise the sides 4 to 6" easy, you can do that.
BTW, we can talk metric, 10 to 15 cm is fine.

Raise sole for storage: yes, as long as all the framing is present and is raised the same way.

More HP: not ideal but the transom can take it. Trim at rest may not be nice but it is possible. We will have to move tank and battery for the CG.

Foam core: no problem at all if you make the bottom from plywood epoxy. All other parts can be made in foam sandwich and I can give specs.
I can give specs for the bottom too but I will consider them experimental. You may have seen the debate about the PH22 in foam. The TX18 does not slam as much as a low deadrise and with the proper foam and resin, there will be less risk of shear failure than with the PH22.
Your problem is one of supplies: how easy is it to get supplies in Zambia? BBC can ship in a container, we have done it a few times.

Strakes: I don't like that idea. You know that the boat hull shape is based on the Hickman's sled. Hickman and others designed many hulls in that style and in some cases, there was a problem with chine tripping. For that reason, the last Hickman's design and my own have those small slanted chines. Strakes could be dangerous and I don't think that they would reduce blowouts. Blowouts may happen in turns with the TX18 and with tunnel hulls. In a straight line, the flow to the prop is steady, regular but in turns, you will always have turbulences and the only way to avoid blowouts is to take wide turns.
Did you try different height settings?

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:36 pm
by Vundu
Hi Jacques,
Thanks very much for the indepth reply. I'll go through my pics and post them, and I think I have a video or 2.

The build was eventually done out of commercial pine plywood, of extremely low quality as thats all we could get at the time. As I had never worked with wood, or glass before I know I overdid the build, making a heavier hull. I also added more glass to the hull as per advise as I was considering a 90hp at the time. She eventually was fitted with a 60hp 4 stroke merc, and runs well. We are at 1300m altitude so I do think we have some reduction on performance due to weight and altitude.

She is an absolutely fantastic fishing platform, stable and spacious. I have taken her on a lake in strong winds with a heavy chop, and she had a suprisingly good ride and dry. I was very happy with her, and everyone that fished in her was likewise impressed with her.

Since the build I have found suppliers of quality foam cores in South Africa, as well as BS1088 grade marine ply. To ship from the USA would be too costly as I cannot find anyone that will do a part load in a 20 ft container.

I would love to explore a complete build in Foam core - if it had a weight benefit and you have the time to look into it, but am concious of your reservations. I would take your advise on this and if there is no benefit would go with a blend of foam core and ply as you might specify. I am happy to adjust the weight distribution as you might advise too.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:41 pm
by Vundu
Sorry missed the height settings question. I made a 3 inch jackplate and we ended up with the cavitation plate set just below (10mm) the bottom of the hull and a standard factory aluminium prop. Out here we have limitted access to props, hydraulic jackplates etc. She turns well at speed. For this new build I will install a Hydraulic jack plate.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:50 pm
by jacquesmm
Thanks for the report and keep us up to date on the progress of the scaled boat.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:56 am
by Vundu
Hi,
I have uploaded some pictures of the last build to the gallery. I can't upload the videos as they are to big, is there any advise on how to do it without opening a youtube account?

I have lofted the plans +10% in all dimensions and and now working on cutting out the forms. Please can you help out with advise on what foam core density and laminating schedule I would need to make the ribs, stringers and sole out of foam core. I can buy mycell 60 and mycell 80 out of South africa. Or do you advise something else?

I can buy Corelite 450 out of South Africa, would that be a good product to use for the transom purely to counter potential rot damage? If so, what thickness and glass schedule do you advise? Thanks

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:42 am
by wpstarling
Vundu wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:56 am Hi,
I have uploaded some pictures of the last build to the gallery. I can't upload the videos as they are to big, is there any advise on how to do it without opening a youtube account?
Vundu, that boat looks great! What did you do for the trailer bunks? I'm going to be building a TX18 once I finish my Jon boat build so I've been looking at all the pictures I can.

I think for YouTube you just need to sign up and then you should be able to post a video and link it here

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:37 am
by Vundu
Hi WP, thanks for the advise and compliments.
We travel on extremely bad roads here so we make the trailer bunks as long as possible. I actually built the trailer upside down on the inverted hull before painting. By doing it this way it was much easier to get the bunks to follow the contour of the hull for as far as possible. I used 100x50mm (4 inch x 2 inch) steel roofing C channel that was 4mm thick and covered it with 12mm (1/2 inch felt) that was wider and longer than the bunks. I'll sign up for youtube and post a link this weekend. Looking forward to seeing your progress on the new build.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:14 am
by OneWayTraffic
Hi Vundu. If you have a question for the designer to answer try posting it in the 'Power boats' forum above. Either that or quote his reply in this thread while asking. That way he will get a notification.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:26 am
by Vundu
Thanks OneWayTraffic!!

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:35 am
by Vundu
jacquesmm wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:04 pm I am glad to hear that you like your TX18 but can we have a performance report and some pictures?

Some of your questions are easy to answer, others not.
Let's start with the easy ones.

Scale by 7%: no problem at all.

Raise the sides 4 to 6" easy, you can do that.
BTW, we can talk metric, 10 to 15 cm is fine.

Raise sole for storage: yes, as long as all the framing is present and is raised the same way.

More HP: not ideal but the transom can take it. Trim at rest may not be nice but it is possible. We will have to move tank and battery for the CG.

Foam core: no problem at all if you make the bottom from plywood epoxy. All other parts can be made in foam sandwich and I can give specs.
I can give specs for the bottom too but I will consider them experimental. You may have seen the debate about the PH22 in foam. The TX18 does not slam as much as a low deadrise and with the proper foam and resin, there will be less risk of shear failure than with the PH22.
Your problem is one of supplies: how easy is it to get supplies in Zambia? BBC can ship in a container, we have done it a few times.

Strakes: I don't like that idea. You know that the boat hull shape is based on the Hickman's sled. Hickman and others designed many hulls in that style and in some cases, there was a problem with chine tripping. For that reason, the last Hickman's design and my own have those small slanted chines. Strakes could be dangerous and I don't think that they would reduce blowouts. Blowouts may happen in turns with the TX18 and with tunnel hulls. In a straight line, the flow to the prop is steady, regular but in turns, you will always have turbulences and the only way to avoid blowouts is to take wide turns.
Did you try different height settings?

Hi Jacques. I have lofted the boat +10% all round. I have also found mycell 40, 60 and 80 in South Africa as well as Corelite 450. If you have the time could you please help me with advice on the type of core to use and laminating schedule for the sole. Could you give me your thoughts on using the Corelite 450 for the transom? If its useable do you ahve a laminating schedule for it? Thanks very much!

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:05 am
by fallguy1000
Corelite 450 is fine for a transom. Two pieces with a 1mm pb epoxy bond done at about 2-4psi bond pressure. Wet both sides with thickened epoxy using a 1/16" or 1/2mm vee trowel. The schedule is up to JM. Something in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 layers of db 1700 each side with wraps over the top. First piece would be 12" overlaps all sides. So inside wraps bottom and sides and top 12". Next 10", etc. The fillets and radiuses need to be good sized like 3/8" to allow for all the wraps. It might be nice to get some uni into the layup as well as the short strands would be vertical...up to JM.

The top of the transom should get wrapped by both the inside pieces and the outside pieces. In order to do this well, you must also fair the landing zone for the outside or the inside with pb epoxy. This will be 10-12 layers of glass along the top. Each side takes a day of work. Be careful to mix the epoxy here. I made the mistake of putting my epoxy for the transom into a roller pan and forgot to mix one batch... luckily it was the last piece..

After the wraps; you will want to square off the bottom edge for performance. The top can be squared off, but that is just for looks.

The pieces of glass should be dry fit first, with some sharpie writing on them so you remember any special overlap wishes.

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:05 pm
by Vundu
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:05 am Corelite 450 is fine for a transom. Two pieces with a 1mm pb epoxy bond done at about 2-4psi bond pressure. Wet both sides with thickened epoxy using a 1/16" or 1/2mm vee trowel. The schedule is up to JM. Something in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 layers of db 1700 each side with wraps over the top. First piece would be 12" overlaps all sides. So inside wraps bottom and sides and top 12". Next 10", etc. The fillets and radiuses need to be good sized like 3/8" to allow for all the wraps. It might be nice to get some uni into the layup as well as the short strands would be vertical...up to JM.

The top of the transom should get wrapped by both the inside pieces and the outside pieces. In order to do this well, you must also fair the landing zone for the outside or the inside with pb epoxy. This will be 10-12 layers of glass along the top. Each side takes a day of work. Be careful to mix the epoxy here. I made the mistake of putting my epoxy for the transom into a roller pan and forgot to mix one batch... luckily it was the last piece..

After the wraps; you will want to square off the bottom edge for performance. The top can be squared off, but that is just for looks.

The pieces of glass should be dry fit first, with some sharpie writing on them so you remember any special overlap wishes.
Thanks very much Fallguy. I really appreciate your help!

Re: TX18 Foam core stringers, ribs and sole. Strakes.

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:05 pm
by fallguy1000
What is the sole core in this boat?