Simmon Sea Skiff

[retrosub]

The "What next?" thread started going in the direction of the Simmons Sea Skiff, so I thought I'd start a new topic that will be easier to search on in the future.

The 18' and 20' are very different in size, I wonder which one you would do? And will you keep the lapstrake construction?

Thats what we have to decide. If it will be a re-design (better plans and use of more modern techiques/materials), or if it will be a completely new boat that resembles the function/layout and looks of the Simmons.

So... if anyone else has an opinion about a redesigned Simmons, let's hear it.

[tech_support]

You beat me to it.

I would like to included any sea skiff builders/fans in this discussion as well.

As I mentioned in the other thread we have to first decide if it will be a re-design (more amateur friendly plans, easier building method, and use of more modern techniques/materials), or if it will be a completely new boat that resembles the function/layout and looks of the Simmons.

So lets define the boat

[retrosub]

Here are some of my thoughts for starters:

The Simmons 18' is a small boat and close to the OB18 in length, beam, power requirements, etc. For that reason, maybe that's not your first priority. I'm sure many people would want to build an easier version of this classic, but I'd personally rather see a bigger one.

The Simmons 22' is a big boat, and I think competes too much with your PG22 and maybe NV series (considering the number of cabins I see on the Simmons 22).

However, I think the Simmons 20' fills in a nice gap in the lineup. You can think of it like a roomier PG20, or longer OD18 with a vee, or shorter Nina. I bought the Tolman Skiff book because I thought that was about the right size boat, but I was turned off by a few things in the construction, and honestly, I'd rather build a boat from here. A Simmons 20 would be a worthy competitor to the Tolman skiff, IMO. Tolman got rid of his motorwells, so people who want to drag nets over the back or change a prop pin in cold water might find the Simmons is a better boat for that, and would buy your plans instead. All said, I think the Simmons 20 is the one you should design.

So how do I envision a 20' Sea Skiff? For starters, I think the lapstrakes are essential. I think if you design one that's just a panel or two you will not draw in the classic builders that want an easier-to-build Simmons. I think it's cool that you can change a low-side boat into a high-side simply by adding a panel, and that should be an option in the plans. I often look at my OD18 plans, and it's *almost* a lapstrake, having three panels: the chine panel and the two panels that overlap....

I'd like it if the motorwell was made for a 20" shaft. The transom should be full-width bulkhead with lockers on either side. I'd like a self-bailing cockpit, and with a reasonable sole, those lockers would be at the right height to be used as seats (if not while in motion, then at rest, or as a casting deck).

As far as the interior layout, I'm not much into the windsheld version, but a center console would be neat. I think a stripped down version with a tiller steer should absolutely be an option, that's the one I'm keen on.

One thing I don't like about the historical Simmons design is all those frames. Now that I'm used to seeing boats without frames, I like 'em that way! Maybe reduce those to two frames that can be used for horizontal rod storage (spearguns in my case) and to help support gunwales perhaps?

While I'm dreaming, a flat casting deck should be an option in place of the arched bow deck. Oh, and a sail, I want a version that has a daggerboard and a sail. (OK, I'm sort of kidding on that last one. Sorta.)

[jacquesmm]

Candid questions:
- What is it that makes the Simmons Sea Skiff special?
- what attracts you in those boats?
- how are they different from the boat plans we offer? By that, I mean which advantages do you see in a Simmons Sea Skiff.

If we design one, I need to know what makes it different because I don't see anything special in hull shape or seaworthiness.

[Super Spook]

I'll echo Jacques here (or maybe just demonstrate my ignorance of classic designs) and ask what void this fills in the Bateau lineup. If it's a stylistic void, I can see where you guys are coming from. It's a pretty boat, and I love the lapstrake look. From a functionality point of view, to me, it seems like an OD18, PG20, or even a C19 can do any of the things that the SSS can do, and maybe even do them better. For those that pull a lot of nets, I could definitely see the need for the motorwell. It's something you see on the some of the mullet boats on the Gulf Coast. But what else makes this boat so sought after, aside from the lines.

[Old E.]

I'm not overly familiar with them, but they are attractive to me for the following, percieved, reasons:

Simple lay out
Easily customizable
Shallow draft
Minimum deadrise, but not a flat bottom
Simple, classic lines
More beam than some of the existing models in these sizes (pangas) mid-range (longer than the ODs) as far as teh 22-23 is concerned.

I don't like the motor wells on the classics, I think it is a waste of space. I'm pretty sure y'all had mentioned that you would put your own typical transom on there, which is a big improvement IMO.

I know I have blathered enough about the boats I like for this section of FL. Suffice to say that 222 Joel is rebuilding is right up my alley. I don't know if this boat is more like that or not.

If I think of other things I will add them.

[anonymous]

I think a 20-22 ft OD wold be a great addition! The SSS is is a nice classic nastaligic boat but not reflective of methods and materials here. I would like to see a 22 ft 8 to 8.5 ft beam boat with a little V at the bow much like the SSS. Motor on the Transom not in a well! Reason for the 22 is because the OD 18 already is like a 20 ft boat so skip to a bigger boat if possible! this would fill a gap in the currant plans available of a wide large boat that is economical and relatively easy to build. the panga fits the bill but is too narrow for many to go with. and the Classic series is to large of a commitment for many. I know that I am not being very specific but I do thing that 22 ft 8-8.5 beam is what I would like to see! Definitely in a redesign along the same lines of the already successful OD's!

[retrosub]

What makes a Simmons Sea Skiff special?
* The Simmons is a classic boat, with a rich and interesting history. It appears to me that people often build boats out of pure romanticism; the history is often reason enough.
* The Sea Skiff has an admirable reputation for being seaworthy. I'm sure there are many modern designs that are better, but the Simmons EARNED that reputation. Some people like a safe bet.
* The motorwell may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's an interesting feature of this design, and some people are looking for just that.

---
What attracts me to this boat?
* I like the look of lapstrakes. You can tell me why they are inferior, and I'll still say that I like the look of lapstrakes.
* The Sea Skiffs are lightweight boats for their size, with modest power requirements. (Yes, this describes many of your boats as well.)
* I'm hoping for a towing weight of around 1500 pounds. That means the boat needs to weigh close to 750. The SS20 should weigh around 700 lbs (if the classic boat weighs about the same), and that'll put me in the ballpark.
* It appears to fulfill my requirements of an easily trailerable, seaworthy, economical, good looking, classic skiff that is roomy enough for 3 people and camping gear.

---
How is the SS20 (I'm only interested in the 20') different from other designs you have?

* SS20 vs OD18: I bought the OD18 plans because I love the looks of the boat. But I haven't started the boat because I want a vee bottom. I have been thinking about how to make a vee hull on the OD18, but it's just too complicated for me. The SS20 would be more comfortable in a chop, but still have that classic look I like.
* SS20 vs PG20: The PG20 is a small boat, smaller than the OD18. I want more room. Also, the listed hull weight of 1000 pounds scares me off, even though I know it must be wrong.
* SS20 vs LB22: I take long admiring looks at the Nina all the time. It's a sweet boat. But I reckon on a calm day I could go about twice as fast in a SS20, and about the same through a chop.
* SS20 vs Tolman Std: Your designs are easier to build and maintain, and there's better support.

But having said all that... if you design an FS20 (your construction methods on a FS14 the size of a Tolman Std - 20' long, 7' beam, 700lbs), I'll bite.

[Old E.]

Oh, and I could care less about lap-strake... a smooth hull is just fine with me, and easier to clean and maintian, if you ask me.

[anonymous]

I am like some of the others. I have and love the OD-18 plans, I would like to see an OD-18 or an OD-20 with a vee-bottom like the Simmons or Tolman Skiff. I also have the Tolman book, but much prefer you construction methods.