And the planning begins!

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Jaysen
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Jaysen »

if you really are "solo" look in the 30-35ft range. much cheaper. Just as blue water capable. Much easier to single.

I saw a couple rangers for $15k. A number of Catalina's a few Morgans all in the <$10k. All checked out ready to go. The size just isn't popular as too many folks think "bigger is better" completely missing the true cost differential for boats over 35' (that's the new cut off to charge you more for foot on the dock, requires heavier sail material, requires bigger motors, etc).

If you really want to work to make a boat pretty you can get a CNC 30 for about $4k still. Solid boat. lots of $$ to make it a global cruiser (guess what I'm hoping to look at a bit later).
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

TomW1
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Re: And the planning begins!

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Billharrison wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:43 pm Excellent advice, assuming we have a boat show this year (Please 2020 / byeeee) Setting foot on different plans would be excellent advice. Anyone in the cleveland area wanna teach me to sail? Beer and dinners on me
Bill there are many sailing courses available in Cleveland. Contact the local US Power Squadron for instruction on sailing around the world. I know there is one in Cleveland, I think there is one in Akron, they offer courses in sailing up to circle navigating the globe. I looked it up there is one in Akron called Akron Sail and Power Squadron. http://akronpowersquadron.com/wp/

It sounds like you do not have much sailing experience, if this is true buy a high performance single handed sail boat and learn to sail it well. Then move up to a boat that has a spinnaker and learn to sail it well, a Lightning? Then move up to a 30' boat, Morgan or similar and learn it well, dock it at one of the Cleveland clubs. Take a circumnavigation of Lake Erie with her. Lake Erie can be one awful mistress, so be alert. My father-in-law docked his Morgan at Mentor Harbor YC. Not the best not the worst. Once you have this fully conquered and feel ready to head out then buy a 36-40 foot boat, out fit it for single handed sailing, do some over nighters on Erie, and head for the Atlantic and Caribbean.

Best wishes and have fun.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

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Jaysen
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Re: And the planning begins!

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Tom has the right plan for learning there. If you are able, get in a race crew. I was crew on a J30 and it was more educational than classes due to the practical hands on that a class just can’t give you.

One area I would alter in Tom’s plan... build the first boat. You learn nearly ALL the skills needed to maintain a large vessel and you have a bit more enjoyment when sailing. It is much easier to build a moonfish, V12, CK17 than a AD, SB, VG or other “big boy toy” sail boat.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: And the planning begins!

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Jaysen wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:36 am Tom has the right plan for learning there. If you are able, get in a race crew. I was crew on a J30 and it was more educational than classes due to the practical hands on that a class just can’t give you.

One area I would alter in Tom’s plan... build the first boat. You learn nearly ALL the skills needed to maintain a large vessel and you have a bit more enjoyment when sailing. It is much easier to build a moonfish, V12, CK17 than a AD, SB, VG or other “big boy toy” sail boat.
Jayson is right, the Power Squadron is a friendly group and once you join and start going to some of there meetings you should be able to get some rides and some help in learning on a real boat. You don't necessarily have to build a small boat, but join a yacht club that has sailing classes and learn on there boats. They normally have racing in each class as you move up in class and the better you get, the better off you are.

You have a long way to go from not being able to sail to sailing around the world. I knew of 3-4 members at Mentor Harbor that had done it. Listen to what Evan Gatehouse has to say as he just finished a circumnavigation in 2019 I believe, in his Cat.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Billharrison »

So I have spent the last couple months going and looking at boats, and as usual ideas change and everyone here has been quick to smack me lol so hows this for complicated!

I got to get on a few trawlers and man what a difference from a sailboat. A 32 foot boat has two nice cabins, huge everything. My biggest fear was fuel costs and boy do they have big hungry engines (two!).

But, what about converting one of these to electric with a diesel generator? Add auxiliary generator and plenty of solar. What a larger living arrangement in a smaller boat!

How Oceanworthy is something like a carver, or silverton 30-40 foot boat? Converting to electric seems very doable, I am considering using electric vehicle parts (Reliable, common, available used for far less than marine stuff) with plenty of battery, lots of solar and a diesel generator. Is it possible with todays technology to build something like this that has roughly the performance of a sailboat? (100 miles per day in transit?).

I am realizing that safety underway is very important but speed is not. I will have time on my side. But need enough power and range to avoid "Problems" in a pinch.

And lots of these boats for a fair price with bad engines (As an auto mechanic im not used to seeing so many failed engines, I am assuming the marine life is just very hard on them)

Sooooo looks like this:
And remember, im a mechanic, so automotive is my area of expertise:

2 Motor assemblies from 2012-2016 Mitsubishi I-Miev Electric car (Used 300 each)

Each 66hp and 145 lb ft torque. Very self contained, and plenty of used out there. Easy to source if one fails and small enough to be shippable. One should power the boat in a pinch.

Enough house batteries to provide 1 day cruise (imiev is 16kwh batt pack and small, very reliable, but pricey. Lots of used tesla batteries, just need enough to provide the proper 300v) and lets say around 60kwh worth

Enough solar to charge the battery pack daily

So this would provide plenty of power for daily living on the hook, and enough to provide sailboat like crossing speeds 6-8knts

Diesel generator with enough power to propel boat at 10knt forever on diesel if necessary.


Dream of possibly a parasail or such?

Haha just throwing ideas out there. I owned the first Mitsubishi I miev 2012 and had it 5 years, great little electric car dead reliable. Motors compact and self contained as the car is gas in japan so everything fits where the engine was. Should be pretty simple to fab up some mounts and drive the props.

Billharrison
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Billharrison »

So I have spent the last couple months going and looking at boats, and as usual ideas change and everyone here has been quick to smack me lol so hows this for complicated!

I got to get on a few trawlers and man what a difference from a sailboat. A 32 foot boat has two nice cabins, huge everything. My biggest fear was fuel costs and boy do they have big hungry engines (two!).

But, what about converting one of these to electric with a diesel generator? Add auxiliary generator and plenty of solar. What a larger living arrangement in a smaller boat!

How Oceanworthy is something like a carver, or silverton 30-40 foot boat? Converting to electric seems very doable, I am considering using electric vehicle parts (Reliable, common, available used for far less than marine stuff) with plenty of battery, lots of solar and a diesel generator. Is it possible with todays technology to build something like this that has roughly the performance of a sailboat? (100 miles per day in transit?).

I am realizing that safety underway is very important but speed is not. I will have time on my side. But need enough power and range to avoid "Problems" in a pinch.

And lots of these boats for a fair price with bad engines (As an auto mechanic im not used to seeing so many failed engines, I am assuming the marine life is just very hard on them)

Sooooo looks like this:
And remember, im a mechanic, so automotive is my area of expertise:

2 Motor assemblies from 2012-2016 Mitsubishi I-Miev Electric car (Used 300 each)

Each 66hp and 145 lb ft torque. Very self contained, and plenty of used out there. Easy to source if one fails and small enough to be shippable. One should power the boat in a pinch.

Enough house batteries to provide 1 day cruise (imiev is 16kwh batt pack and small, very reliable, but pricey. Lots of used tesla batteries, just need enough to provide the proper 300v) and lets say around 60kwh worth

Enough solar to charge the battery pack daily

So this would provide plenty of power for daily living on the hook, and enough to provide sailboat like crossing speeds 6-8knts

Diesel generator with enough power to propel boat at 10knt forever on diesel if necessary.


Dream of possibly a parasail or such?

Haha just throwing ideas out there. I owned the first Mitsubishi I miev 2012 and had it 5 years, great little electric car dead reliable. Motors compact and self contained as the car is gas in japan so everything fits where the engine was. Should be pretty simple to fab up some mounts and drive the props.



And as I was searching for parts, found this video of my totalled Imiev up for parts! This was my car that was totalled last summer!

https://youtu.be/s6GRplpujus

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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by VT_Jeff »

This guy breaks down trawler vs sailboat pretty well. $7700 annual fuel cost for his trawler. If you're not planning on crossing the ocean, not a bad option. I tend to mortor my sailboat a lot and can def see the benefit of moving to a boat without sails.

https://www.bumfuzzle.com/trawler-vs-sail/
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Jaysen »

Billharrison wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:33 am Enough solar to charge the battery pack daily
Not possible with your "running a full day" plan using current technology. You might get closer if you supplement solar and wind.

I would suggest looking at a Voltec drive train for the batt to diesel controller. The Voltec is what is in the Chevrolet Volt (petrol powered). it already knows to "start the motor" when the batts are low. If you use that as a starting point for learning, I think you will have a solid head start.

I would NOT use an automotive drivetrain. I would source e-motors from industrial suppliers. Automative motors are too finicky on cooling. Industrial are ... industrial. Also look at the step-down gearing... industrials will typically focus on the torque (which you need) vs automotive that are balancing torque and speed (rpm). You will also find that industrials are better able to run in reverse should you need to have counter rotating shafts to balance the boat (I've never looked at dual motors but wanted extended reverse run for position holding in current). I also think you will find that industrial motors will allow you to skip the transmission altogether as your controller will manage F-N-R for you.

You will need to have spare e-motors on board. Make sure you can afford 4 of them. You will need 3-5x your battery plan. Remember that 60KW will require 180KW storage to allow for load balancing and cycling for the batteries. I think, you will need way more than 180KW to make 100NM in a day with dual motors and a large displacement. There have been a number of electric conversions. You might want to reach out to a few and see how their batts systems are designed and then do some math to see what you need.

If I had my choice, I would build as you describe. The only difference is that I would be building on a functional sailing platform using e-motor only for in harbor and emergencies. That's been the only way I can see it working. I'm rooting for you though. It would be great to see long haul, non-sailing electrics vs the current offerings of "water taxis". Good luck.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Jaysen
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Jaysen »

VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am I tend to mortor my sailboat a lot and can def see the benefit of moving to a boat without sails.
Why is that? I'm curious for obvious reasons (see my sig if it isn't obvious).
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: And the planning begins!

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Jaysen wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:57 am
VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:54 am I tend to motor my sailboat a lot and can def see the benefit of moving to a boat without sails.
Why is that? I'm curious for obvious reasons (see my sig if it isn't obvious).
Fair question. Elaine gets bored sailing, but loves using the boat to get us out to SUP-fishing areas. If it's windy enough to sail, it's usually not good conditions for SUP fishing. We also use it to just get out on the lake, anchor up and beat the summer heat. It makes a very good lake-front cottage. I sail it solo pretty regularly. Luckily it's affordable enough in Lake Ontario to keep it for that kind of use.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

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