And the planning begins!

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Billharrison

And the planning begins!

Post by Billharrison »

Good morning! New here, new to boating and working on a plan. Throwing some ideas out to those in the know.

I'm 44, and I want to sail the world at 55. I have 11 years to make it happen. I've roughed out some ideas, maybe you more educated fellows can help lock them down.

I have three main scenarios:

1. Build a boat, likely a 40ish food catamaran definitely want blue water long term liveability and security and safety

2. Buy a boat, possibly an insurance total and repair / refit

3. Buy a 40 footish monohull and just adapt and sail.


I'm leaning towards 1 as I have some time, I can make it exactly mine, and I feel the value proposition is better. It obviously has its issues.

My budget is a little tight and I want as much available for the sailing period as possible. I'm very technically capable (automotive master tech) so most things shouldn't be a problem on the tech end but obviously that's later and building the boat glassing etc. I have no experience.

I envision a 40-50 foot catamaran either using standard sails with electric drives and lion battery banks,. Or I have interest in a full electric cat no sails and a parasail drive (unfortunately other than a couple websites info is pretty scarce on these)

Sooooo as a real beginner smack me around a little anyone have much info on sail drives? I know solar and ev drives very well. And I know current tech doesn't make a full solar boat possible. Sails limit solar even more. I see the parasail as a perfect combo of both with a decent diesel generator for worst case scenarios (outrunning weather)

Any great plans to pickup? Any well tested boats? Lots of upper surface helps with the solar obviously. Also open to ideas still very much in the planning phase.

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gstanfield
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by gstanfield »

Welcome aboard!

I have no experience that will be helpful answering your questions, but in terms of budget you can buy a used boat much cheaper than building your own in most instances.
Previous builds: FL14, NC16, and others...

Current build: FL14 (+10%)

silentneko
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by silentneko »

Tight budgets, large boat building, and electric drives generally do not mix well. Start by defining your budget. $60k, $75k, $100k?

Being you want an open ocean vessel and have zero experience glassing I think I would spend several years building my skills on smaller projects. I'm on my 4th build and think I could pull off a bigger boat if I had warehouse space to build it, but no way would I have been able to do it as my first few boats.

The best value in your list is refitting an older hull. Homebuilds can be hard to sell since there is no manufacturer notoriety, and older hulls can be bought cheap and sold for a premium once fixed up. I would stay away from insurance totals as that hurts value also.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe, and an FS17.

Billharrison
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Billharrison »

Budget is flexible but what I don't spend on the boat I save for travel. I am very good at savings and cost cutting. I'm guessing a large build like that takes at least 5-8 years part time. Sourcing quality used or cannibilized parts is definitely going to be par for the actual build and outfitting.

I would like a finished hull for approx 20k materials only. Not sure how close to reality that is.

I'm hoping you guys can say!

silentneko
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by silentneko »

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can make a 40ft hull for $20k. Maybe if you are just floating on a lake, but that would be a stretch. Anything that will be strong enough to cross open waters needs to be significantly stronger. A material cost closer to 50k, without rigging, propulsion, and electronics, would be more realistic, at a minimum.

For comparison my FS17 cost about 6k in materials. This is for a light weight, single skinned hull. Your boat will likely need 4 times thicker glass and is nearly 3 times the length, twice the width, and 4 times the freeboard.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe, and an FS17.

fallguy1000
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by fallguy1000 »

A 40 foot bluewater sailboat costs about $3000-$4000 a foot to build. Takes 5-7 years work.

Can be purchased good condition about $2000 a foot. Takes a year of work.

Can be purchased fixer condition for about $1000 a foot. Takes a couple years if work.

Don't think I am not correct!
My boat build is here -------->

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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Jaysen »

So I'll be the dissenting opinion here.

Go for it. It will be hard and you WILL go over budget. You need 10yr to get a safe boat on the water. If you can live with that, then have at it.

Do not fall for the trap that you can scavenge everything. Don't fall for the other trap that you MUST buy marine products (but you will have to repair/replace more frequently). Understand the compromises you are making with each purchase and be certain you are willing to live with the consequences of the compromises (budget overrun, maintenance frequency, safety issues).

If you don't know anything about sailing, rigging, maintenance of sailboat hulls, maintenance of sailboat rigging, maintenance of propulsion systems, 12/24/96v marine electrical systems, international logistics, international healthcare, navigation (electronic and celestial) and emergency medical care, start with looking into each. There is a LOT to learn. Some of it requires time on water.

As to the "how do I want to get my boat" ...
1. Full electric is possible. But you will give up some serious conveniences. Others have done it. Hell, how many centuries of "nothing but sail" predated motorized propulsion? This is where you have to understand the compromises and live with your decision.
2. Cat vs Mono religious wars aside, make sure you understand the ugly realities of both hull types. Both suck donkey. But they suck different donkey. We are back to understanding the compromises and living with the consequences. For example... monos are easier/cheaper to maintain and cheaper to dock; you get less than 50% of the living space for a similar sized cat.
3. it is much easier to retro fit, but you are stuck with the factory floor plan. Building from scratch will KILL YOU IN SO MANY WAYS but you get to decide where everything goes in the hull. And you start with a hull that is 90% of what you want then work with a naval architect to make it what you want.

Smart people buy a used boat and retro fit. Nut jobs build. I assume you are nuts just like me.

When I get this one built, I will be done building. I may never build it though...
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

narfi
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by narfi »

I am at a similar place as you and have been researching a lot the last couple of months.

I do not think pure electric drive is wise at the current stage of technology, You just don't have enough solar real estate to be practical and if you are running a diesel you may as well be more efficient and use it to run your prop.
Perhaps in 10 years technology will have changed in the 3 needed aspects, Solar, Battery, and motors.

One good option now is to have 1 electric drive and one diesel drive with a huge alternator. For short stints out of the harbor or whatever you could use just your electric drive off of battery power and recharge off of solar the rest of the day. You can get electric drives that can be programed to create power when under sail to also help recharge batteries on cloudy days.

Woods sells his power cat plans on this site, but also has plans for sailing cats. There are lots of good options out there for plywood or balsa or foam cored catamarans out there, especially seems popular in Australia.
My wife and I are strongly considering the Schionning Solitare which looks beautiful and at the upper end of what we would want in terms of size. We were quoted 120k usd(after conversion) for the materials kit including already glassed foam panels out of south africa, you could a little cheaper sourcing your own materials, but not significantly in terms of a project that size.

You list all the options, and a time frame, it all depends on what you really want and how you want to budget the time and money into that.
You can find ~10yr old 45yr old catamarans that you could buy and polish up to your preferences for cheaper than you could build and in less time.

I love to build, I love the idea of stretching the cost of our new boat over multiple years, and I am not free to roam for quite a few years still. For my wife, all of those factors favor building. For me, I love building and really want to have finished a project like that. So for both of us the decision is 'fairly' easy to find a design we like and build it to our own preferences.

Something to really consider when narrowing down your plans is what you really want, what does your wife want, etc.... The idea of 'Sailing Catamaran' can range anywhere from rough camping in tiny hulls with an open deck, to a full blown luxury apartment floating around the world with all the luxuries you could imagine. Where you choose on that spectrum not only determines your initial cost to build or purchase, but also your cost in time and resources to maintain and keep seaworthy.

How supportive is your wife, how involved would she be with your building? How close to your bed and meal table is the shed or shop you would be building in? How motivated are you to complete long grinding projects? Have you completed any other multi year projects to experience the staying power required?
All of those will affect your success in building and completing your dream, and should be considered when deciding between building, buying, or refurbishing.

Woods also offers a consulting service, when we get closer to making decisions we may higher him for advise even if not purchasing one of his plans, he has lived on several of his own designs and knows somewhat how the lifestyle and design styles affect each other in reality.

Will love to see what you decide, keep us informed :)

Billharrison
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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by Billharrison »

All great info it's what I came for. Certainly my goal is to be around 100k completed for the boat. I was of course hoping to build twice the boat I could buy for that. I have considered fixing a damaged boat but as someone mentioned it's definitely got resale issues and probably insurance issues.

I also agree with the last post, a solar boat just isn't there yet. Hence my interest in the parasail. And the backup of enough wattage via diesel to run the motors in a rough situation. My current EV is a bmw i3 rex and is basically that exact principal in a car. Enough battery to go 80 miles, and a big enough generator to run forever on gas.

I intend to scavent running trian from automotive sources being that's my real forte. Also as mentioned using not necessarily marine stuff for all items just where it absolutely coun
It's a lot to learn. As mentioned earlier but that's my point in this.

Also probably alot to be said for buying a boat and refitting but I'd want at least a 50 monohull to be comfortable it looks like a 40 cat would be similar with better liveability.

I plan on living aboard about a year in the carribean to learn the boat inside out before departing. And obviously I have alot to learn about ports travelling sailing tons lol.

I welcome all advice. If building is dumb someone smack me. The dream is real. The method is still undetermined.

Is the 2-3000 per foot outfitted or bare hull?

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Re: And the planning begins!

Post by silentneko »

I like the dream, I just think your method needs focus. I have a similar dream to cruise the great loop later in life, but I will do so in a 25ft or so camping cruiser. I'll most likely build it myself, but it will be the 6th build for me.

Honestly if I were you I would find a smaller boat to refit now. There are so many 30ft sailboats you can get for dirt cheap out there that need work. Learn the boat, build methods, systems, how to sail and navigate..... then sell it as a functional boat and upgrade if you still want that life. A 50ft boat is a LOT of boat. You may find its unrealistic to handle it without a deck hand as you hit retirement age.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe, and an FS17.

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