What larger design for lake use in NZ - PH22, AB23 or something else?

[jmacnz]

Hi,

I've been reading various things on this forum over the last year, while pouring through the variety of designs available. Have to say this forum is a brilliant archive of information, with so much encouragement and positivity. It's really great, and to see the designer Jacques interact so much is brilliant.

However, even after this time of so much reading and research, I can't decide on what to invest in. I'm a carpenter/architectural designer in New Zealand, and have a lot of experience with wood. My experience with fibreglass is much more limited, although a couple of years ago (before I really discovered Boat Builder Central) I took on a jon boat project for hunting waterfowl, which is obviously a pretty simple design, and it became a merger of an UncleJohn's plan with my dimensions to 13ft and customisation. I've completed it, and it came out very well. Thoroughly enjoyed the experience of learning about epoxy and glass. But, now that I've discovered all these excellent designs of Jacques I am keen to plan out a larger lake boat for future family fishing and water sports use.

Originally I was thinking of something sub 20' but knowing the time investment that goes in, I would rather work on something around the 21-23' mark that will serve long term use with friends and my young family. I will only really use this boat on lakes as I'm a fresh water type of guy, however some of our larger lakes in NZ with the strong winds we get, can chop up a fair bit and I don't want to get caught in an unsafe position out in a choppy lake with kids on board etc. Shade and stability would be other factors that are important. On these lakes I'd be spending a lot of time jigging or slow trolling for lake trout, so something that's very stable at drifting or slow speeds would be best, along with a good size T top for shade.

That leads me to what I think are the best options, but that's where I need to tap into some of the expert advice on this forum before diving in and purchasing materials and cutting ply. I started thinking about the OB designs in 17 and 19, especially after I saw the OB17 Sideslippa built in Australia, that was a beauty. However, with that shade and wife and kids type thinking, I looked at large boats with T tops. I've always thought the AB23 was a great looking boat, but wonder if it's more of an offshore ocean boat, and well overkill for predominantly lake use. Which led me to studying the PH22 very closely. The PH22 feels like it could be ideal as a family lake boat, and I've seen people talk about it's low deadrise (6 degrees?) and that it doesn't handle rough well, but I wonder if that's talking more of ocean rough rather than a choppy lake when you're trying to get home?

Build time would also be a factor. Looking at the AD23 versus PH22, is it a correct interpretation to see the AB23 as a much larger time investment given the extra materials in the BOM? Material cost is not a concern for me, but if I'm talking about a boat that takes me 5 years versus 3 years (as a part time undertaking obviously) than that's a consideration. I've also noticed the PH22 beam is 2.59metres which would require a little adaption at my end as the maximum total towing width of anything on a trailer here in NZ without permits is 2.55metres (40mm or 1 5/8" difference)

Requirements:
Predominatnly lake use, maybe a little inlet or inshore use in fine conditions
Good capacity for family and friends, with a large T Top or similar for shade (I've always liked the top on the GS28)
Ability to handle a bit of chop, as conditions can change on our New Zealand lakes quite quickly with wind.
Stable at rest for jigging and low speed trolling for lake trout.
Will be a long term family use boat
Don't have any horsepower requirements, will be buying whatever is needed

Any advice anyone can give on what other considerations should be in there, and what designs might be most appropriate will be much appreciated. I'll be sure to start a build thread when I begin to share and tap into all of this knowledge that exists.

Thanks all for your time.

James

[fallguy1000]

Barraman?

[BrianC]

You might also look at the center console version of the GP21: GP21 Study Plans

[jacquesmm]

Considering your program, I agree with BrianC: the GP21 is a perfect candidate.

[fallguy1000]

You might also look at the center console version of the GP21: GP21 Study Plans

I like it! You could put up a really nice sunshade off the hardtop. Basically a couple of poles and shade fabric and the entire cockpit is in the shade.

That is also a lot of boat. C21 vs GP21?

[jmacnz]

Thank you guys very much for your quick replies. Understand about the GP21, and that had been on the radar also. Makes sense. I've had more than one look at the deck boat version of the GP21 with the side console as well as the centre console version.

In comparison of PH22 and GP21, do you expect the GP21 to be much more of an undertaking to build given similar internal layouts? i.e the amount of material listed for the GP21 looks to be a fair bit more than a PH22?

Also, I understand from the forum, that the cockpit depth and freeboard for a PH22 is around 20" and 22" respectively? And the deadrise at transom is around 6 degrees. (Not sure if it's much more at the cutwater? is it a fairly constant deadrise hull?). What sort of cockpit depth and freeboard are we looking at for a deckboat version of the GP21? And I understand that it is a variable deadrise type hull with 26 degrees at cutwater flattening off to 3 degrees at the transom, which sounds great for stability along with handling some chop.

[BarraMan]

Barraman?

Haha, I had the same thought!

The Mangusta 20 is a great hull that would fit needs comfortably. You would need to think creatively and do the cockpit and decks to suit your specific needs, as I did. However, I doubt that you will find a better handling hull that can go like the clappers in the smooth stuff and mix it in the rough stuff! Mine is a very dry boat when the going gets rough!

I'm doing 40 kts in the first video.....

https://youtu.be/iE-SHNpyNKA

....and about 16 kts in the second!

https://youtu.be/Odz0j1mpgdQ

[jmacnz]

Thanks BarraMan, nice videos, and great looking boat! Another consideration for sure. How do you find it at rest? Very stable or gets a bit of a roll on?

[BarraMan]

Thanks BarraMan, nice videos, and great looking boat! Another consideration for sure. How do you find it at rest? Very stable or gets a bit of a roll on?

Even with its 18 degrees of dead-rise at the transom, my boat is very stable at rest. My son and his mates think nothing of walking from the bow to the stern along the side rails. I probably have a video of them doing that somewhere too.

Here you go - four blokes walking around on the boat and it doesn't move at all - then Craig (aka Crabman) walks down the side rail and nets an 86 cm barramundi!

https://youtu.be/BK4iIrAZkIE

[TomW1]

If you are going to get into rough water I would look at the C21, it has the tallest insides and most V. The GP21 is a Garvey design and while capable in mild to moderate seas cannot handle the heavier seas a CC21 could and be comfortable, it depends on how heavy your seas are and the size of your kids. Well that is my two cents, take it for what its worth.

Tom