Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Before I purchase the GF16 plans I had a few questions. I've found some info but I'm uncertain on specifics so here's my post

If I want to build the GF16 +10%
- is that do-able? I know most, if not all plans, CAN be +10% but does Jacques give his blessing on doing this?
- if it is do-able, how much more wood/foam boards would I need?

Next question:
- I have some 1/2" marine plywood (2 sheets), some 1/2" foam board (1.5 sheets) and 1 sheet of 3/8 foam board. Is it possible to mix/and match them? With wood prices right now I'd like to use what I have if possible.

Last question:
- Is it possible to lay down a sole and remove the middle bench if I put it another brace or two? It would be nice to have a large open sole like the XF20 does

Ideally I want an easy to build boat that allows me to use what I have right now so that when I build my TX18 in the future I'll have all the nuances down and won't make as many mistakes hopefully. I thought about the XF20 but that's a lot of wood/foam to buy and the GF16 could possibly be down with only 3 or 4 sheets versus 14+ for the XF20. I've got a family of 4 so size matters in this case.

wpstarling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:47 pm Before I purchase the GF16 plans I had a few questions. I've found some info but I'm uncertain on specifics so here's my post

If I want to build the GF16 +10%
- is that do-able? I know most, if not all plans, CAN be +10% but does Jacques give his blessing on doing this?
- if it is do-able, how much more wood/foam boards would I need?

The GF16 is a a larger build of the GF14, so to make it larger you will need maybe 2 sheets of extra plywood, it depends on how it lays out. Jacques will need to answer this question.

Next question:
- I have some 1/2" marine plywood (2 sheets), some 1/2" foam board (1.5 sheets) and 1 sheet of 3/8 foam board. Is it possible to mix/and match them? With wood prices right now I'd like to use what I have if possible.

What type of foam do you have? That will depend if you can use it. Divinycell is what is sold here and Jacques would have to approve where each thickness is used and how much fiberglass is needed on it.

Last question:
- Is it possible to lay down a sole and remove the middle bench if I put it another brace or two? It would be nice to have a large open sole like the XF20 does

It is possible you will need 3" frames where the center seat is at present. And if you are stretching it by 10% you may need to add an additional frame.

Ideally I want an easy to build boat that allows me to use what I have right now so that when I build my TX18 in the future I'll have all the nuances down and won't make as many mistakes hopefully. I thought about the XF20 but that's a lot of wood/foam to buy and the GF16 could possibly be down with only 3 or 4 sheets versus 14+ for the XF20. I've got a family of 4 so size matters in this case.

Well I hope those answered your questions some what. I have fished in a GF16 and it is a really nice boat. My concern for you is by putting a deck in you are raising the Center of Gravity quite a bit on a small boat. With a family I do not know if I would do it. When i was out on the GF16 the 2 of us weighed about 450lbs and with a 25HP 2st had a top speed of about 30mph. If you have any questions please feel to ask.

I see your in FL, don't know how far you are from Vero Beach, but you could go meet the guys and pick up what you need as far as extra plywood, fiberglass and epoxy.

Tom

The foam core I have is Nidaplast (https://www.boatbuildercentral.com/prod ... 5AEALw_wcB). I got it from a friend who bought it from BBC years ago and never used it because he developed an allergic reaction to epoxy

Currently my family of 4 would weigh less than 450 without gear so the weight wouldn't be much different, 2 of my passengers are less than 60 lbs, but they'll keep growing so it is a concern of the future.

I figured another 3 inch frame or 2 would be needed, I could keep the 16 foot length, I was just curious if it was possible to safely stretch it or not.

I am in the Panhandle in FL so I'm no where near Vero but I grew up in Fort Pierce so if I purchase a large amount of stuff I'll just stop by BBC and then go see my mom so I'm not worried about that, I'm just trying to see what I can and can't use so I know what I need.

The GF16 can not be enlarged. One of the reasons is that the bottom is made of a the full width of a plywood panel (48"). If you enlarge it by 1", you have to change the whole structure.
There is a larger version named the GF18. As any larger boat, it uses more materials. A larger boat needs a more elaborate structure (framing).

You will be able to use the materials you have but select a plan first.
If you choose the GF16, you can not remove the middle seat box. It is a very important part of the structure.

jacquesmm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:25 am The GF16 can not be enlarged. One of the reasons is that the bottom is made of a the full width of a plywood panel (48"). If you enlarge it by 1", you have to change the whole structure.
There is a larger version named the GF18. As any larger boat, it uses more materials. A larger boat needs a more elaborate structure (framing).

You will be able to use the materials you have but select a plan first.
If you choose the GF16, you can not remove the middle seat box. It is a very important part of the structure.

Good to know. If i do the GF16 i'll stick with the planned specs. I was hoping the seat could be removed in favor of an extra frame or 2 so I could do a sole/floor but I was worried about integrity. Looks like I'll have to decide if I'm good with it or not. What got me thinking was a friend has a late 90's Carolina Skiff that's a flat bottom and about 19' long and it feels like he has plenty of room to walk around so I was trying to find something like it that didn't require 15 sheets of plywood

The TX18 is my 'dream' boat but I know it'll take me a while to do so that's why I was thinking of an easier boat first.

The middle seat and the two other ones at each ends are boxes that provide the needed stiffness. The design goal was a boat economical and easy to build: a flat plywood sheet as bottom and sole and no stringers. To replace the stringers, we need those boxes.
The Carolina skiffs have a very thick bottom: at least 2", up to 6" in some boats and those boxes provide the stiffness.
We could do that with foam sheets but it would be very expensive.

The TX18 is my 'dream' boat but I know it'll take me a while to do so that's why I was thinking of an easier boat first.

I would suggest you seriously mull that statement over for a while. If the GF16 (or any other boat) is not what you truly want or need, why not just start on the TX18? The technique(s) are the same, and you will get all the help you need here if you run into something that you aren't sure about. Yes, the bigger boat will take more time and money to build, is more complicated, but if you take your time you can do it, and it will also allow you to break the costs out over that time.

Whatever you decide, welcome to the BBV. Once contracted, this disease can only be treated by building on, or spending time on something you made.

cape man wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:25 pm

The TX18 is my 'dream' boat but I know it'll take me a while to do so that's why I was thinking of an easier boat first.

I would suggest you seriously mull that statement over for a while. If the GF16 (or any other boat) is not what you truly want or need, why not just start on the TX18? The technique(s) are the same, and you will get all the help you need here if you run into something that you aren't sure about. Yes, the bigger boat will take more time and money to build, is more complicated, but if you take your time you can do it, and it will also allow you to break the costs out over that time.

Whatever you decide, welcome to the BBV. Once contracted, this disease can only be treated by building on, or spending time on something you made.

Or start with something much simpler than even the gf16 for your first build, like a canoe or kayak, and then try the tx18. One thing about this build process is that you often need to cut your teeth on critical areas. Like the hull/keel/transom etc. I think its wise to go through the whole process on a much smaller scale before starting something big. You absolutely can start with the tx18 but I think you'll build a better boat in less time and for less money if you pilot the process first. That's my broken-record rant. Welcome, in any event, and best of luck!

“build something simple first” is always good advice - but I am disciple of “build what you really want and be done with it”!

My first ever build is a 22’ beast that is everything I want in a boat. I had no previous experience.

The stitch and glue process can be as slow and steady as you need and leads you from the new/ simple stuff into the more challenging stuff you need to get the job finished!

I had no help other than from my wifes extra pair of hands with big glass layups and the ‘tipping’ part of ‘roll and tip’ painting.

You can look up my build thread on here.

I'm in the Barra/Capeman camp. Use the money spent on the boat you don't want to help build the one you do. If you can build the GF16 as a first build then you can build the TX18 the same way. It's just some more of the same. Aside from money, the key thing to a successful build is just to start and not quit. Mistakes will happen pretty much no matter what and they can all be fixed. That said, the GF16 is a fine boat and one I would consider if I ever get rid of my LB22.

Dougster

Dougster wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:09 am I'm in the Barra/Capeman camp. Use the money spent on the boat you don't want to help build the one you do. If you can build the GF16 as a first build then you can build the TX18 the same way. It's just some more of the same. Aside from money, the key thing to a successful build is just to start and not quit. Mistakes will happen pretty much no matter what and they can all be fixed. That said, the GF16 is a fine boat and one I would consider if I ever get rid of my LB22.

Dougster

I suspect you guys are probably in the majority. Here's my final(no promises) argument for starting small.

If you go through the whole process soup-to-nuts on small scale, it will free your mind to focus on quality when you start your ultimate boat, instead of it being mired in entry-level issues and questions. It will allow you to focus on your vision of what you want the boat to end up like instead of focusing on how to best mix epoxy, which epoxy to use, how to deal with blush/air bubbles, what to use for fairing compound, what to fill the glass weave with, how to best form fillets, etc etc etc. Get all that crap cleared out of your mind with a small build so on the big one, you can focus on the boat you're building and not the building process itself.

I'll freely admit to being a "Look-before-leap" type, though I wasn't always.

I agree with the idea of building a small boat to get used to the material. That is why I designed the Cheap Canoe CC14. Free plans are available in the Free Plans section.
You will save a lot of labor and materials thanks to that 1st experience.
To build a GF16 to gain experience is different however, the GF16 is a lot more boat than the CC14. You will be able to use that GF16 and resell her for more than the cost of the materials if built properly.

Each way has pros and cons.

I've known a few guys who skipped the small boat learning experience, then discovered they HATED fiberglassing while 5% of the way into a much larger build. One of them is entering his 8th year of hating the mid-sized incomplete hull in his driveway.

I think if you like to build, it's not a big deal and you can learn on a bigger boat. But if you get a little bit in and find that the process isn't fun, now you have a problem.

My first boat was a sharpie sailboat of my own design, which is not how most people would recommend getting started at all. I never regretted starting that way, but I always liked building stuff and was fascinated with boats from an early age. In fact when I was really young, I did a SOF kayak that was just polytarp over bamboo; technically I guess that was my first boat but it barely qualifies. Anyway if that's how you feel about boats, I don't think there's a huge risk going big early.

But personally I think if you want to build something first, I'd make it the smallest, cheapest boat that you can imagine using, that incorporates most of the techniques you'll need. You burn a lot of time and glue just glassing boxes together, and after you've done a couple you know everything you need to know, IMO. So if it were me, and this is the same advice I gave to my 8 years of hate friend about 9 years ago...why not build something like a D5 and treat it as a play boat for the kids, or for goofing around on lakes? Here you can often find beat up old 2hp motors on FB for a couple hundred bucks or so...that would make for kind of a fun little mini fishing machine and a medium fish in a tiny boat is a lot of action. Plus then you'd have built boxes, wet out glass, faired a boat...

I'm certain if that one friend of mine had started a D5 he'd have had a bonfire two months in and given me the unused epoxy, and only be a couple hundred bucks lighter in the wallet, instead of the $3-5,000 he's into it now, with no boat and no prospects for being on the water anytime soon. That money could have bought him a decent used boat, and he'd be a happier guy today. Also I would have had a couple of gallons of free epoxy.

Sorry if that sounds bleak, I love building boats and really enjoy the time I spend on it. I just find that not everybody feels the same way.

(Actually, when I'm fairing I hate it as much as anyone, I just try to find good podcasts and zone out. It's still better than being at work.)

I've done lots of fiberglass work on my Glastron and a previous Proline boat so I know all about laying glass, fillets, mixing epoxy, etc. I just know it'll take a lot of time so that's where most of my hesitancy to going straight to the TX18 is. Don't want to take family time to build my boat haha. Rather just go out on the boat I have

Oh, in that case I'd go straight to the TX18.

wpstarling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:20 pm I've done lots of fiberglass work on my Glastron and a previous Proline boat so I know all about laying glass, fillets, mixing epoxy, etc. I just know it'll take a lot of time so that's where most of my hesitancy to going straight to the TX18 is. Don't want to take family time to build my boat haha. Rather just go out on the boat I have

Then do a quick build of the GF16 so you can keep the family happy. 40 hours is 4 hours a night for 10 days and add in week ends and your down to less than 2 weeks. The camouflaged boat under the specifications with all the rods sticking up is the one I went out in. It had a small fish finder and did not help us find any fish. But we were 5 miles off the coast of Crystal River, FL with it on a nice calm day. Came back in with some white caps. It is a very stable boat. And if nothing else the kids will have there own boat when they grow up.

Wel good luck to you!

Tom