Phantom 15 - Foam Core

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Jack Tunn
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Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jack Tunn »

I've been looking at all the small fishing boat plans and I'm interested in the PH15 because it has a foam core option which the specs indicate would be very light. I'm usually out by myself or just one other person so it looks big enough.

I understand it will be more complex but I would like to try vacuum bagging. I've done compression bagging with great success making components for my composite fuselage airplane and it worked out great.

I would like to hear comments from anyone who has built a foam PH15 or built any of the boats foam core with vacuum bagging.

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Jeff
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jeff »

Jack, Yes, one of our local builders, Ken or StickyStuff (Forum Name) built the foam version of the PH15. Here is a link to assist you:

https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=9166

Regarding Vacuum Bagging, fallguy1000 (Forum Name) is just about to start a major vacuum bagging operation in MN. He is building the Skoota 32 and using CoreCell and System Three SilverTip Epoxy. He should be staring his thread very soon. Hope this helps you. Jeff

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Evan_Gatehouse
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Evan_Gatehouse »

Hi,

I'm a designer of some of the bateau boats. I've also built some big vacuum bagged foam cored panels for the bridgedeck of my catamaran - about 8'x8' were laid up in one shot.

1. Cut up your foam for the hull
2. Do a test layup with some of the scrap foam first. Say 18-24"' square or so.
3. Don't use too much bag pressure. I used about 1/2 atmosphere and that was fine. Lots more vacuum and you suck the resin out, leaving a dry laminate. But this depends on the particular resin you use - slow resins less vacuum. hot day - more vacuum to get it bonded before resin gels.
4. Use a resin trap. I used a mason jar with holes in the lid.
5. I used cheap fabric store ripstop nylon for peel ply. Works fine but do clean the resulting surface afterward before bonding/painting as the fabric may have contaminents from the weaving process. Ugly colors are usually discounted :)
6. I used cheap polyester batting about 1/2" thick from the fabric store for the breather/bleeder layer. Worked fine
7. I used 4 mil builders plastic for the bag. Not very stretchy but o.k. Don't buy the very cheapest as it may have holes and drive you crazy
8. I used rolls of butyl mastic tape from Home Despot - used to stick windows in. Works quite well at sealing.

I don't think you have to use the fancy bagging materials sold by composite suppliers for most applications.
designer: FB11/GV10,11,13/ HMD18/
SK17,MM21/MT24

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Jeff
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jeff »

Evan, Thank you very much!! That is great information regarding vacuum bagging!! Jeff

Jack Tunn
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jack Tunn »

Is there a Phantom 15 CNC foam kit?

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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by jacquesmm »

We did build a foam sandwich version of the PH15, here at bateau, around 10 years ago.
We saved about 150 lbs, maybe 200 lbs
There was no weight saving worth talking about on the hull skin because you need a minimum glass thickness for resistance to puncture but all the flat parts were lighter. For maximum weight savings, I would recommend to build a plywood-epoxy hull skin with foam sandwich frames, sole, deck.
If the goal is not weight saving but to overcome the prejudice against plywood (resale value?), I would build it all in foam sandwich, flat parts vacuum bagged (see Evan's advice), hull skin open layup.
Read my foam sandwich tutorial.
The specs for foam sandwich are included in the plans and ask questions here for substitutions. For example, the specified transom should become Aquaplas or equivalent since the specified Renicell does not exist anymore.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

Jack Tunn
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jack Tunn »

Thanks Jacques,

I do have a 50+ year aversion to wood used in boat structures. I'm sure this comes from cheaply built polyester resin over cheap non-marine plywood. I've seen too many soft transoms, floors, decks and structure. I have seen several large multihull sailboats built with epoxied cedar strip and bagged. Those may last forever it terms of the original builder's lifespan. I'm trying to come to grips with quality wood and epoxy. If I go that way, I'm back to looking at the Texas Sled.

I assume a wood core Sled will be easier and possibly less expensive than a foam PH15 and definitely ride better out in the bays.

What should I expect for lifespan on a wood core boat like the sled that is mostly not stored in the water or outside?

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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by Jack Tunn »

Also, if I select the Texas Sled, would foam sandwich frame, sole, and deck give any significant weight savings?

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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by jacquesmm »

The larger the boat, the higher the weight saving.

Now that I am back from vacations, I am ready to prepare specifications for almost any of my designs for foam sandwich but I want to finish a set of standard building notes for foam sandwich construction, a building booklet. In addition to what you can read in the foam sandwich tutorial, it will address issues specific to outboard powered boats: transoms, stringers, hull to deck seams, finish of panel edges and appendages. It will also describe a building method that does not require an elaborate mold but instead uses partially pre-skinned panels. That booklet will be included in the foam sandwich plans.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

TomW1
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Re: Phantom 15 - Foam Core

Post by TomW1 »

Jack per your longevity question I have a Mirror Dinghy, an international sailing class, one of the very, very first stitch and glue boats. It was built by my wife and her dad in the late 1960's. I did repairs on it 8 years ago do to improper storage but she could sail today. I know of the first C19 built in about 1996 still going strong, only maintenance a repaint a couple of years ago plus basic maintenance on motor and gear. Don't be afraid of stitch and glue with the right marine plywood and properly covered in fiberglass and epoxy it will more than outlast you with proper maintenance. If your worried about scraping the bottom up, double up the fiberglass there as well as several layers of graphite mix. You'll add a little weight for some piece of mind

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

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