PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Questions and Answers about the Woods Designs, multihulls and others.
SLRS
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PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by SLRS »

Pontoon Cat Boat Plans (PC24)
E-Cat 24 Boat Plans (EC24)

Hi there, and thanks for the information and a place to ask questions.

I may have narrowed my search down to as few as 2 designs, and they are both found here! Hopefully, it is ok to ask for more information than is found on the study plans (tell me if it is not).

I see the PC24 hulls are referred to as planing hulls. Are the EC24 hulls displacement? I am very interested in efficiency and am attracted to the EC24 design because of it, but the PC24 may not be all that much less efficient while being able to carry more weight. Yes?

How wide and tall are both the hulls? Partly, I am wondering how much interior room will be available for fuel, water, storage...I have 16 gallon steel drums (14.5" diameter) for fuel and 16 gallon plastic drums for water. I am also trying to get an idea of deck height as waves on the Great Lakes, yachts and barges often create big chop.

I would be using this on the Great Lakes, the Mississippi and possibly the great loop.



fallguy1000
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by fallguy1000 »

Edited!!!

Pontoon boats are less than ideal for the Great Lakes.

I have done quite a lot of great lakes fishing and I have NEVER seen anyone on a pontoon boat out in the main lakes. These lakes are massive. Fish in them are pelagagic and roamers. Finding the fish typically requires driving far out to sea. This is not a safe vessel for such behaviors. The sea states in the great lakes are fast chop and conditions change rapidly. Lake Michigan, in certain areas, is 10 miles out. A small skiff is safer. A larger boat like the C19 or others are muchmore suitable for the predictably unpredictable conditions.

The pontoon cat 22 is not really a pontoon. I forget this often. It would work well for Lake Michigan. It has sufficient power to get you home safely.

The electric boat, in my opinion, is not suited for the big lakes. It is not fast enough and could take you hours to get back in bad head seas. Despite the study plan callouts, I would not run it a long way from shore with electric either.
Last edited by fallguy1000 on Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SLRS
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by SLRS »

"I have done quite a lot of great lakes fishing and I have NEVER seen anyone on a pontoon boat out in the main lakes."
-I have seen pontoons, which these are not. I have also seen people regularly (and safely) going out in boats that are much smaller than the C19. Safety is a serious issue, but also subjective. It is easy to go out in a safe boat in an unsafe manner.

-The C19 looks perfect for someone that is looking for that kind of boat. I am not.

-I am not primarily fishing...and thanks for introducing me to a word that I needed to look up.

-Search: Birth of the Gougmarans by Meade Gougeon. Similar use and design.

-Did you have those measurements?

fallguy1000
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by fallguy1000 »

SLRS wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:06 pm "I have done quite a lot of great lakes fishing and I have NEVER seen anyone on a pontoon boat out in the main lakes."
-I have seen pontoons, which these are not. I have also seen people regularly (and safely) going out in boats that are much smaller than the C19. Safety is a serious issue, but also subjective. It is easy to go out in a safe boat in an unsafe manner.

-The C19 looks perfect for someone that is looking for that kind of boat. I am not.

-I am not primarily fishing...and thanks for introducing me to a word that I needed to look up.

-Search: Birth of the Gougmarans by Meade Gougeon. Similar use and design.

-Did you have those measurements?
PC22 is 8'3" beam with 16" bdeck tunnel clearance.

I think actually, the boat is more of a catamaran than a pontoon and would work fine on big water. I am correcting my other post as well, in a bit.

I did not check on the ecat because it would not work for you. The electric boats are severely range limited. If you wanted to do the great loop, the ecat would need to be modified quite a lot and it would get heavy quickly and I don't believe it was designed for that. The engine specs are all very small. The Ecat 24 is 8'10" beam.

The designer will comment most likely. Give him some time.
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SLRS
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by SLRS »

I appreciate your help here.

16 inches of clearance on the PC24 would be between the water and under side of the deck. That might be the minimum for my use as i have seen 10 foot+ wakes behind some of the larger yachts, on flat water, in the UP. Something to think about. Also, I believe the max beam is designed up to 10 feet.

For the EC24.
-I know there is a place for electric, (I have an 8.28kwh solar system on my property), but I do not prefer it on a boat (or car). I would choose an engine over a motor every time and agree that electric is out. Thus, I would choose an engine. A pair of 10 hp is mentioned.
-My plans would include a 8 x 20 foot platform, an 8 x 8 wall tent with 5.5 foot side walls and a 6 foot high rain fly / sun screen over the whole platform. This would be a rustic, aquatic camp site (but not a heavy camper) without the dirt, able to pull up to any island or out of the way creek for the night or weekend. All plastic tables, aluminum chairs and aluminum cots for 2. I have many decades in aviation so "light" is covered and under control. Even still, I am concerned about having enough buoyancy.

I am just able to design my own boat, but have too much respect for a skilled / experienced engineer to be satisfied with my (probably good enough) design when i know there are quality designs that provide 100% reliability, safety, predictability and are completely able to accomplish the designed goal.

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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by fallguy1000 »

The pc22 is about the smallest boat you'd ever consider for the great loop. But what about the de25? It would be far better all around. A head for One thing. Still, low power needs.

I purchased plans for the LB26, but I decided it was too small to do the Inside Passage. Now, I may never do the Inside Passage, but will have a boat well capable. For the Great Loop, the pc22 is really a bit too small...the twin engine power and control cost is about an xtra 10k you can spend on a bigger hull like the de25.

Another boat that you could consider is the Skoota powercat series in a 20 or 24 foot version. Those would take longer, but they are beachable and safer in big seas than any of the others mentioned thus far.
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SLRS
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by SLRS »

Found this in an earlier reply for the EC24. I will copy it here for information sake.

-20" from under the deck to the DWL. Cross beams are 6" high = 14" under cross beams.

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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by Browndog »

Welcome to the Forum!

Congratulations on your decision to pursue a boat building project.

For many years I used my boat on Lake Superior and Lake Michigan pursuing salmon, lake trout, steelhead and walleye.

Fallguy is correct that the weather and sea conditions can get downright nautical in a hurry. The cold water can also make it life threatening pretty quick in an emergency. But it can also be glassy smooth with nary a ripple too.

Before I retired I dreamed often of doing the Great Loop. The goal sustained me for years and provided wonderful times to research and learn about the type of craft best suited for such a fabulous adventure. What I learned was that the Great Loop has been done in everything from a Jet Ski, Pontoon boat, sail boats, house boats, Trawlers, etc. It all just depends on how far and fast you want to go each day, what type of weather and seas you are willing to tolerate while operating, how much fuel you want or can afford to buy, whether or not you plan on living on the boat or staying at Marinas, campsites or hotels along the way.

It sounds like you have some very specific things you want your boat to do and are also less concerned about luxury and maybe comfort.

Pontoon boats are far more capable than they are being given credit for here. They will and can handle rough water. They are usually used on more sheltered waters though so I understand the confusion. The problem is the typical run of the mill round tube aluminum dual pontoon boat won’t keep you very dry in windy and choppy conditions, but neither will a flat bottom skiff. There is also danger of the bow stuffing in a wave and water rushing over and swamping the deck.

The Pontoon Cat 24 is not the run of the mill round aluminum tubed pontoon boat. I have been contemplating building one for my lake house in Northwest Wisconsin which is on a deep water 5000 acre lake. Over the last 25 years I’ve noticed that pontoon boats have far exceeded all other types of watercraft on the lake due to their multipurpose abilities to provide a stable and safe platform that is easy for young and old to get in and be on while also allowing people to fish, swim, tube, camp, cruise, and generally just have fun on the water with.

There is no doubt that building a boat will give you immense satisfaction and allow you to tailor whatever you build to your specific needs. The problem is that it may not be the most economical choice. Boats generally are not used often and they depreciate quickly so used boats often are a better value than home built ones. It is not unusual for people to buy a boat to do the Great Loop and then sell it once they have completed their trip creating good opportunities to get some nice deals.

The forum is a great place to learn, get help and encouragement while also interacting with the designers and other builders.

Best wishes to you for success as you embark on your boat building journey.

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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by jacquesmm »

I missed this thread because it was posted in the Woods section.
Neither the pc22/25 or the EC are suited for the Great Loop or for any offshore navigation.
The Great loop requires several offshore passages in the Great Lakes and in Florida.
Those lights catamarans or pontoons boats are great for inshore fun not for offshore.
Look at any of the Skootas, even the 24 would do the job if you are frugal.
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SLRS
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Re: PC24 vs EC24 questions.

Post by SLRS »

"Those lights catamarans or pontoons boats are great for inshore fun not for offshore." Naturally, I need to ask why. Surely these designs are not so weak if properly fabricated that they cannot handle mild weather. I don't think anyone would take these out if a storm were coming or waves were out of hand. I have seen inshore weather toss barge covers like they were paperplates.

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