Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

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Vundu
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by Vundu »

jacquesmm wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:31 pm Thanks Fallguy. Since he does not plan to use any of those for the hull skin, it will probably work.
I will look for more details about the use of those for transom foam but the TX18 is not going to suffer from extreme transom stress.
Thanks again.

Hi JM, Not sure if you picked up the message below re the core foam values. When you ahve some time I would really appreciate your advice on lamination schedules and which cores you advise for sole, deck and transom.

Corelite450
Compressive Strength ASTM D1621 psi 847
Compressive Modulus ASTM D1621-B psi 423
Tensile Strength ASTM C297 psi 481
Shear Strength ASTM C273 psi 445
Shear Modulus ASTM C273 psi 5519
Shear Elongation at Break ISO 1922 % 1.404
Flexural Strength ASTM D790 psi 1799

Mycell 80:
Compressive strength ASTM D1621-10 MPa average min-ave, min-min 1,43; 1,22; 1,03
Compressive modulus ASTM D1621-10 MPa average min-ave, min-min: 68: 53: 44
Tensile strength ASTM D1623 MPa average min-ave, min-min: 2,60: 1,82: 1,63
Tensile modulus ASTM D1623 MPa average min-ave, min-min: 137: 107: 94
Shear strength ASTM C273 MPa average min-ave, min-min: 1,13: 1,06: 0,92
Shear modulus ASTM C273 MPa average min-ave, min-min: 29: 25: 22
Shear elongation at break ASTM C273 % average 20

To give a general response to the other comments.

I am buying out of South Africa and have been unable to find any coosa products.

I wanted to use the Mycell80 in the stringers and ribs to save weight and rot resistance. I would be happy to use the corelite 450, it would be fractionally heavier if at all as they say 27% ligther than plywood.... so may be the same or lighter, but wider (16mm corelite450 vs 2 x 6mm ply + epoxy), which suits me. I can only buy 16mm corelite450.

The sole, front deck and transom I would like in synthetic core, but only the transom is a real must have. I have access to 20, 15 and 10mm Mycell80 and was hoping to use that on the sole and decks.

Once again, thanks to you all for your comments and advice.



jacquesmm
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by jacquesmm »

I just came back from a short vacation during which I had very little internet access. I will compare those core materials to Corecell and Aquaplas.
This will take a day or two: I have to find the specs of each for the same ASTM test method and also check if those ASTM methods are adequate to measure peel strength.

Can you get samples? You can apply skins to the samples and do some testing but we'll talk more once I assemble data for comparison.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

Vundu
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by Vundu »

jacquesmm wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:33 pm I just came back from a short vacation during which I had very little internet access. I will compare those core materials to Corecell and Aquaplas.
This will take a day or two: I have to find the specs of each for the same ASTM test method and also check if those ASTM methods are adequate to measure peel strength.

Can you get samples? You can apply skins to the samples and do some testing but we'll talk more once I assemble data for comparison.
Hi JAcques, Thanks very much. Unfortunately I can't get samples.

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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by jacquesmm »

Corelite 450 looks very close to Aquaplas and could be used as transom foam IF it bonds well with epoxy.
That would require a sample and some testing.
It's a PVC and some PVC's like Aquaplas III bond well but many other high density PVC foams peel easily.
Corelite agrees with me about testing. This is what their processing guide says:
All 3 CoreLite core materials are compatible with epoxy, polyester and vinylester resin systems. It is
advisable to create a test sample of the core-laminate sandwich panel with reference
to the resin suppliers recommendations, prior to initiating a full core installation.
Note that it states compatibility with polyester and epoxy, a good point.

The Maricell Mycell 80 characteristics are close to Divynicell, shear strength is good, compatible with epoxy. I would use it for all flat panels like sole, stringers, bulkheads.
I would not use it for hull panels without testing but you plan to use a plywood core there.

Assuming that there is no peel problem, and there should not be since each of them clearly mention compatibility with polyester and epoxy, I would use Corelite for the transom
and Mycell for all flat parts.

It is strange that you can get an Italian foam but no others. I suppose that you deal with the South African distributor. Can he not help you with samples? I feel good about those two core materials now that I read their brochures and data sheets but nothing beats a test.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

Vundu
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by Vundu »

jacquesmm wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:12 pm Corelite 450 looks very close to Aquaplas and could be used as transom foam IF it bonds well with epoxy.
That would require a sample and some testing.
It's a PVC and some PVC's like Aquaplas III bond well but many other high density PVC foams peel easily.
Corelite agrees with me about testing. This is what their processing guide says:
All 3 CoreLite core materials are compatible with epoxy, polyester and vinylester resin systems. It is
advisable to create a test sample of the core-laminate sandwich panel with reference
to the resin suppliers recommendations, prior to initiating a full core installation.
Note that it states compatibility with polyester and epoxy, a good point.

The Maricell Mycell 80 characteristics are close to Divynicell, shear strength is good, compatible with epoxy. I would use it for all flat panels like sole, stringers, bulkheads.
I would not use it for hull panels without testing but you plan to use a plywood core there.

Assuming that there is no peel problem, and there should not be since each of them clearly mention compatibility with polyester and epoxy, I would use Corelite for the transom
and Mycell for all flat parts.

It is strange that you can get an Italian foam but no others. I suppose that you deal with the South African distributor. Can he not help you with samples? I feel good about those two core materials now that I read their brochures and data sheets but nothing beats a test.
Hi Jacques. I have only found 2 suppliers of core materials in South Africa. The suppliers of the corelite and mycell have been extremely helpful and supportive and advised that the corelite450 is usually used for transoms. The alternative supplier has not. Coosa also seems to not be sold there at all.

As I am a few thousand miles and 2 countries away I have a few logistical issues LOL. I took a chance and ordered some corelite450 and the mycell 80 in mid October. I hope to have it in the next 2-3 weeks.

How you would like the peel tests undertaken?

Could I use the 16mm corelite 450 for the stringers too?

Thanks.

jacquesmm
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by jacquesmm »

Yes, you could use Corelite for every thing.
I will try to find pictures of a simple peel test. I use the same method than Boeing: a sample with a tab of skim that extends from the core and is pushed up and won by an eccentric, a cam.
There is an ASTM method, just do a google search.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Vundu
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Re: Mycell 80 and Corelite 450 for TX18 build

Post by Vundu »

jacquesmm wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:59 pm Yes, you could use Corelite for every thing.
I will try to find pictures of a simple peel test. I use the same method than Boeing: a sample with a tab of skim that extends from the core and is pushed up and won by an eccentric, a cam.
There is an ASTM method, just do a google search.
Will do, thanks, Materials arrive this week.

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