RB16 new build KY 1st timer

[jbo_c]

While not technically “wet”, the accepted time here for overcoating without sanding has historically been 24hrs with slow hardener. I have always used this rule of thumb, based on comments by Jacques, without any failures. That said, you get the best, cleanest join from an aesthetic standpoint if you can do subsequent layers while truly wet or at least malleable. Also, the harder’ the first coat, the more likely you are to entrain air in the weave, particularly with heavier fabrics, and that’s a bad thing.

Based on discussions back in the fall with one of the Duckworks presenters at the PT wooden boat festival, you can also game that system by putting on another neat coat within that time frame. I’ve also used this many times, but never had anyone confirm that I was correct until then. For example: I put on a coat this morning, but won’t really have time to recoat until tomorrow afternoon, which will put me past the 24 hour window, so tonight or early in the morning, I will take the 15-20 minutes to put a quick neat coat over my work, which will “re-start” the 24 hour clock and allow me to continue without sanding. Some would argue(correctly) that this is a waste of epoxy, but most of the time I find the relatively small additional expense preferable to the sanding.

I also agree that your tape looks a little starved.

Jbo

[Jaysen]

Lamiation roller, in my experinence, is best when you are "very wet on wet". Meaning laying 2+ layers at one go. they way I do this (and I stole this from watching fallguy1000 build a giant boat) is.

0. Use SLOW epoxy.
1. lay out layer one. mark its edges in black. secure it to hull with tape as you go.
2. Lay out layer two. mork its edges in red. secure it to hull with tape as you go.
3. Lay out layer three. mork its edges in black.secure it to hull with tape as you go.
4. repeat tracking your staggers and swapping colors and tape widths as needed.
5. Roll the tapes up on a rod.
6. mix epoxy and pour into a wetting trough. Mine is about 3 feet long because I don't have FG's build barn
7. put base "wet layer" on hull for first tape. the rest will happen naturally.
8. unroll bottom into wetting trough and onto a pvc carry rod.
9. Apply tape to hull. for layer zero roll with a wetted nap roller to press into hull.
10. 7-9 for layer 2.
11. clean out wetting trough, change roller and make new batch of slow as this one is going to gell any second by this point
12. 7-9 for layer 3
13. use the laminating roller to LIGHTLY compress the built up layers.
14. 11-13 until you are out of layers.

Key things.
* don't make too much epoxy.
* go slow on with the rolling and let the excess prime for the next tape.
* CLEAN YOUR TOOLS AND TROUGH. Hint: Celophane is your friend on that trough. 8" pvc makes a nice trough
* If you see the epoxy gelling on the working layer stop.
* If the epoxy gells on the hull... go
* use shorter tapes until you are real comfortable with this. I started with 3' sections. I think I did a 24' section in polyester last time I had to tape.

I'm not great at this, but I've managed to get quick enough to be "the boat repari guy" where I'm at. These are the tricks I've had to use.

Reid just got back to me. I'll post his repy here in a second.

[Jaysen]

From Reid:

I cannot get on the forum from my phone, so would you mind posting this for me?

I prefer to work “green on wet”. Jacques and I would discuss this frequently. Once epoxy is applied, whether it be a clear lamination, fillet, or fiberglass lamination, you have a long window to reapply another layer or coat, and still get a chemical bond, as well as a mechanical bond. Obviously, this window will vary depending on weather conditions, and the type of hardener speed that is being use. Typically, in temperatures, 75° or higher, you have a couple of hours or more.

I find that the 8th inch nap rollers worked very well when wedding out fiberglass. They allow the builder to put downward pressure which aids and saturating the cloth. For small applications, the cigar style foam rollers work well, however, if you push down on them, they tend to rip. They also have a shorter work time due to the fact that they soak up epoxy. The 4 inch or 6 inch spreaders work well in certain applications, however, you have to be careful not to pull the fiber of the fiberglass when using this. Lastly, when doing any lamination, it is important to work in small batches of epoxy, and not to overwork the Meaning. Keep in mind that the more you move the epoxy around with your tools you are creating friction which will speed up the curing process. Once the epoxy starts to get slightly tacky or starts to thicken up, you need to stop working with it.

Hope this helps!

[Jeff]

I prefer to work “green on wet”. Jacques and I would discuss this frequently. Once epoxy is applied, whether it be a clear lamination, fillet, or fiberglass lamination, you have a long window to reapply another layer or coat, and still get a chemical bond, as well as a mechanical bond. Obviously, this window will vary depending on weather conditions, and the type of hardener speed that is being use. Typically, in temperatures, 75° or higher, you have a couple of hours or more.
I find that the 8th inch nap rollers worked very well when wedding out fiberglass. They allow the builder to put downward pressure which aids and saturating the cloth. For small applications, the cigar style foam rollers work well, however, if you push down on them, they tend to rip. They also have a shorter work time due to the fact that they soak up epoxy. The 4 inch or 6 inch spreaders work well in certain applications, however, you have to be careful not to pull the fiber of the fiberglass when using this. Lastly, when doing any lamination, it is important to work in small batches of epoxy, and not to overwork the epoxy. Keep in mind that the more you move the epoxy around with your tools you are creating friction which will speed up the curing process. Once the epoxy starts to get slightly tacky or starts to thicken up, you need to stop working with it.
Hope this helps!

Reid

[Buz]

Now yer getting good, experienced advice.

That's a great idea about restarting the wet clock. Wiping on a bit more is waaay better than sanding any off.

I'm headed to get a long trough now.

[TommyD]

Yep experienced advice works too! Thanks for the help guys! With 3 people answering it might soak in

Second attempt at 2 layers I think I did a better job. Fed it a little more epoxy.

[TommyD]

Wide fabric:
Outside:
^ One-layer biaxial 45/45 12 oz., overlapping chine, keel, transom and bow minimum 6".
^ One-layer starboard, one-layer port side, overlapping at the keel.
Inside:
^ One-layer biaxial 45/45 12 oz. Up to at least 6" above chine.
——————————-
Ok I have 15 yard of 50” wide FG.

Working on the bottom right now.

Boat is 60” at widest point. So to me that reads one layer from bow to stern/transom overlapping the keel, transom, chine 6”. So I have to do this on outside and inside of boat. On a 16’ boat wouldn’t I need at least 4-16’ pieces or 64’ to overlap 6” on the keel? Actually probably 4-17’ to overlap 6” on front and back???.

[TommyD]

The sides of the boat are not touching stations C & D at the sheer. About 1” on C and 1/2” on D on both sides. Should I try to draw those to the jig before FGing the bottom?? Or let it take its own shape??

[Reid]

Tommy,

The "Details" drawing on page B293/7 shows the lamination schedule the best. Take a look at that picture and go off of that. Lay out the cloth, dry fit it, and trim the extra. Use the trimmed pieces on the inside.
-Reid

[TommyD]

Bump

The sides of the boat are not touching stations C & D at the sheer. About 1” on C and 1/2” on D on both sides. Should I try to draw those to the jig before FGing the bottom?? Or let it take its own shape??