v12 and a center board conversion

[lefty801]

First a little about myself. I'm 34yrs old, married, two boys(8 and 2yrs). My needs for a boat came about as we are beginning to camp more often and I wanted to have sailboat to take the kids out on. Mostly inland lakes, but occassionally out on Lake Erie from a beach access in a protected bay of sorts. I have been sailing on and off my whole life. First in a Snark 8footer, then up to a Cardinal 12, then on a MacGregor 25.

I am first time builder with no epoxy experience and with moderate woodworking experience.

I know that the first thought is Don't mess with the way the boat was designed. But in my situation a center board that would kick up as I beach her would be one less thing for me to have the worry about(remember the two kids lol). Has anyone built a v12 with a centerboard? Or even thought about it and have some opinions about it? Am I missing something that prevents it from even being a possibility? I realize that it changes the layout and the bill of materials, what else? Why not just choose a design that already has a centerboard? Any suggestions? I really like the lines of the v12.

Okay, this post is way longer than I expected it to be(sorry).

Lefty

[ChuckS]

Lefty801 -- welcome to builder's forum. Be careful about modifications and the law of unintended consequences.....even the simplest modifications seem to always affect the boat or building process in some way down the line. A single boat is always a compromise of all the things you would like to do with it -- pick something that you feel best meets most of your needs.....with that said, pick a design that also meets your needs, because if you feel you need to modify the boat before you even start, you may want to reevaluate your boat choice.....

Just my 2 cents.....above all enjoy the experience!

Chuck S.

[slitvamo]

I think that would be a bad idea. It would take a sizeable trunk for a swing up centerboard and the centerboard would have to be weighted. You'll find that a 12 foot boat is still a 12 foot boat. Actually you are sitting realtively close to the daggerboard. It's light weight and held down with a bungee. (At least that's how it is on my boat.) So, one hand can bring it up quick enough to clear the keel.

Keep it simple and don't add extra parts, especially ones that move.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth too.

It's a cool boat. You be amazed as she come together.

Tom

[Barney]

I think the Centreboard idea is not without merit, although the dagger board is so simple it is hard to get away from. You would have to check with Jacques about the strength you would lose from making a bigger hole in the bottom of the boat.

Size wise, I don't think you'd lose too much space, because the configuration of the middle seat is such that the trunk would probably only stick out by a foot or a bit less from the back of the middle seat - still a big unnecessary lump of wood in the middle of a small boat for little shins to bang against, but probably not that much of an issue if you are happy with the trade off.

One other benefit that I see is that the whole trunk could be sealed - I get a lot of water splashing up through the trunk in choppy conditions when using my motor - I have a cover for it, but it isn't that effective. With a centreboard trunk sealed at the top, you would avoid this entirely.

I would ask Jacques about it, and if he says it is structurally OK, do some measurements and see if you'll be happy with the compromise in space.

NB, I have a weighted swing rudder on mine, and it is great - makes all the difference when landing.

[Laszlo]

Lefty,

The centerboard is overkill on a boat that size. I've got quite a bit of sailing time in a couple of very similar boats and getting the daggerboard up is no issue. If you don't use a bungee the way Tom does, it'll keep wanting to pop up on its own. (When you're sailing on anything other than a run, your leeway will hold it against the inside of the trunk, so once you're up to speed it'll stay down.) The point is, getting it up is no problem.

The trouble you can get with a centerboard is the mechanical complexity, the extra weight and cost and the extra time to build it.

Another slightly subtle thing to keep in mind is that as the V12's high aspect ratio daggerboard moves straight up and down, the location of the center of lateral plane (CLP) doesn't move fore and aft, so the boat stays in balance with the sail. A centerboard would have the CLP location changing as it went up and down, so there would be a definite change in sailing qualities.

So my recommendation, for what it's worth, is back away from the centerboard - go with the design as is on that point.

Good luck,

Laszlo

[Charlie]

Most of these small sailing dinghies are row boats with a sail option. The setup of the sail options will give you about as much performance as is possible. Playing with any of the sailing options, like moving the center of effort on the sail or the center of lateral resistance on the fin means you will have to figure how to make it work.
A design of that size with a drop centerboard is the C12. It's a bit bigger and heavier but it will do everything you want. I saw one under sail and the performance was excellent for a dinghy style hull. It does carry considerably more sail but, since you are experienced that shouldn't be a problem.
The C12 that's pictured with the plan offering is "Little Gem". It was built in Northeast Ohio and is the boat I mentioned above.

Charlie

[lefty801]

Thanks for all the responses. I agree that the design is best left alone and I will drop the centerboard idea. Something that I didn't consider first time around was the added weight of a centerboard and considering that I plan on cartopping the boat, the centerboard is out of the question.

Thanks,
Lefty

[Rick]

Unless you need to cartop because you are also towing a trailer, I would suggest that you consider the C12 or one of the Corsairs and buy a small trailer. Even the V12 or SD11 will be a handful to cartop (especially since your first boat will absolutely weigh more than Jacques' estimate in the study plans -- and I invite anyone who's boat came in lighter to share their experience), and might reduce how often you use the boat. The advantage of the C12 or the Corsairs or even the Moonfish is that they were designed to sail, while the V12 is an "and" boat that is not optimized for any particular task. I think the Corsair 13 is sweet-looking little boat.

Or... build a PK78 first and then build an AR15 later. You know you want to.

[lefty801]

Thanks for suggestions, rick. Early on in my selection process I listed my needs in a boat. The high points are as follows, cartoppable, enough freeboard to keep my two kids in the boat and out of the water, a stayless rig(simplicity), enough carrying capacity for 400lbs, v bottom as opposed to flat for stability in choppy water. The C12 was my first choice but it lacks cartoppability(theres a word for ya). I will primarily be using the boat when camping, so yes I already have a trailer in tow. If all goes well I could see me with a AR15 on a trailer in the driveway next to the camper, to use on days that we aren't camping.

Lefty

[Barney]

Laszlo is dead right about the daggerboard - it is very simple, and is held down by lateral force on a reach, and pops up when there is no sideways pressure. I think it is good advice to leave it (as you have since decided).

Just a point on cartoppability - as Rick says, most boats come in well over the weight specified in the plans. My V12 is too heavy to cartop - I have done it, but it needs two strong blokes to get it up and down - and the time I did it, my father and I dropped it onto my wing mirror on the way down causing a bit of damage

I now use a trailer. My point being that as much as I love the V12, you may want to reconsider the cartopping as a viable factor.