Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

We are getting close:

and


LOA 18', max. beam 54", estimated hull weigth between 200 and 250 lbs, hull draft at load = 1,100 lbs = 4".

There is a little bit of deadrise left at the transom but not much. Transom is for a 20" shaft but can easily be cut down for a 15".

Don't be fooled by the beam, she has a narrow waterline and is easy to pole. Some production boats with the same waterline beam may announce a 5' + beam but that doesn't make them more stable, it's a matter of flare.

The boat is very easy to build: it goes together like our FS12 and FS14, on a pair of 2x4's.

The plans are 95% done and should be ready before the end of the week.

There's something wrong with me. I have no need for a flats boat, but everytime you bring out a new design, I'm impressed and want to build it. We have to give this illness a name.

Don't worry, there will be enough to choose form in the coming months

Once I'm finished with the FS18, I'll do the accommodations of the LB26 :drafter is late again, I'll do it myself!
Next is the Panga 28 which is very advanced and then I'll start on the Abaco 23 or 28 while somebody else progresses on the TW34.
Plus I have a few other ones that I never mentioned including one that is 100% ready.

I almost hate to ask this but I'm gonna.

The lip at the bow can that be cut down or off to allow
for trolling motors? I'm sure its a good idea as it will
keep fly lines under some control. Just wondering about
the lip

The lip at the bow can that be cut down or off to allow
for trolling motors?

I asked the same question years ago about the GF series (look at the scale drawings), as was assured that it would be fine to do so.

Yes, no problem.
You can also mount the trolling motor on a block made of a few layers of ply, it's only a couple inches high. Several type of motors come with that sort of mount anyway.

oh my! she is a beauty. i can't wait to get started on this one.

Looking VERY cool!

I've been real happy with the bow tip motor mount I made for Fir Elise.

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... 0235&pos=2

In this pic I took on Friday, you can see the motor mounted (and that I've removed the center console and remote controls, and changed out the 25 Nissan for a 4-stroke 15 Nissan). The chief advantage is that you can tilt the motor for running really shallow. I've tilted it several notches (perhaps 45 degrees) and have been able to troll along in as little as 5 inches of water. The thrust is downward by the degree of tilt, but the prop blades to not hit or tear up the grass. This is a major advantage when trying to be stealthy and quiet.

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... 0235&pos=1

I trimmed about 4" off the very tip of the bow, perpendicular to the waterline, then cut and tapered three pieces of 1/2" ply, then laminated them into the bow, sandwiching a piece of biaxial that overlapped the inside of the hull between the foremost piece and the mid piece, then between the mid piece and the aftmost piece, then behind the aftmost piece, overlapping onto the inside of the hull about 3" all around. That puppy is SOLID! In case of emergency the Coast Guard is authorized to lasso it and fly me out to safety.

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... 0235&pos=0

I think you could do the same thing with Jacques's latest beautiful creation.

5-0

Oh, hell yeah!
Looks great!
Thanks for getting it done!!!
When can we buy it?

Jaques, will the FS18 plane with 2 ppl and a 9.5hp?
I travel light.
I have a 14' Alumacraft now and it weighs 200lbs and planes no prob.

I will eventually get a 15 or 25 but I already have two 9.5s
Id love to save a few bucks.

-JB

Sweet!!!!

Looks great. Is a flat sheer still going to be an option or has that gone out the window during the design process? A flat sheer with a Birdsall style trolling motor mount would be ideal for me. Anyway, I can't wait to see the full plans.

Elie

Alright. No one asked yet, so I'll get it over with.

Can I stretch it two feet longer?



Great lines... as usual!

I want to hang twin 75's on it. Should I re-enforce the transom? Would it be better if they were counter rotating?

Can I counter balance the weight of the engines by putting a cabin and hot tub on the front?

Can I modify it to have 20 degree deadrise from front to back?

I too, would like to add 2ft if that would allow a heavier payload at 4" draft. My buddy and I each weigh 230lbs. I am preparing to build the XP-20, and have the plans, but my heart is closer to this new design. Would an extra 2 ft help on the draft/payload?

Jerry,

Go talk to Brian. He just finished his new one-off design that is very similar to this boat. I'm sure he'll take you out for a spin so you can see what to expect. Let me know if you need his email.

Tim

Tim,

Thanks. Please post his e-mail.

I'd rather not. I'll send it to you.

Tim

Anyone looking for a GREAT deal on a new, 2007 4-stroke Nissan (up to 15 hp) can go to http://www.porta-bote.com/NissanInfoRequestForm.aspx. I bought my 15 just after Christmas for right at $2,000, INCLUDING freight and all. The folks at Porteboat were super to work with, and I had the engine in 5 days.

BTW, it pushes Fir Elise along at 23 mph, and I would expect even better with the FS18.

5-0

I too, would like to add 2ft if that would allow a heavier payload at 4" draft. My buddy and I each weigh 230lbs. I am preparing to build the XP-20, and have the plans, but my heart is closer to this new design. Would an extra 2 ft help on the draft/payload?

Is this serious? 1,100 lbs at 4" draft with a PPI of 280 lbs will take care of you and your friend.
A longer waterline will almost certainly induce porpoising.

Boomer forgot to ask about the helipad!

Many small Gyrocopters are under 250 lbs, but I'm afraid you would need more beam for initial stability.

Looks good, but I was looking for something a little more Hells Bay/Gordon vice a pirogue style boat. Though the style would ceratinly be easy to build, great boat for a novice. Kinda reminds me of your Indian River Skiff.

Do you think it will track well poling...seems that flat dead rise would slide around or was there going to be a keel or strakes added?

The plans are 100% complete. I have to do the BOM, the kits, the web page . . . should be ready by Friday.

It looks super, Jacques. I gotta build one, as soon as I finish the two I'm working on, and maybe right after an FS14.

5-0

I do not purport to be a nautical engineer. I'll leave that to you professionals.
I am a fisherman who considers a boat to be a fishing platform that also carries me to and from fishing sites. When I wanted a flats boat I searched the web and decided to build my first boat, a PH-18. This site provided all my needs including technical support and input from fellow builders. The boat turned out beautifully and I enjoyed the build so much I have decided to build another boat; one that would operate in a more shallow venue. I bought the XP-20 plans because I wanted a very shallow draft, relatively low horespower, and the capacity to carry two full sized men and fishing gear. Before I managed to order the materials, the FS-18 project started to develope. I simply don't know which hull would better suit my needs. Stretching the FS-18 two feet seemed to me to be some possible insurance of maintaining no more than 4" draft with 2 full sized men, and I have a nice 40hp Yamaha to work with. I don't know about the interpretation of the specifications posted in reference to the FS-18 and my needs; I simply ask others who can help me find what I'm searching for. There always has to be a clown or two that feels the need to be witty when others are trying to learn by asking questions. I'm an attorney at law by profession and take great care not to dicuss complex legal issues with laymen in a manner that leaves them feeling as if I'm exploiting their lack of technical knowledge. I note that many posters ask about modifying plans because they have a specific use in mind that may not appear to fit the basic design. Jacques, I appreciate you taking time to answer my question. If I understand your reply, the FS-18 will draft four inches or less with two 230 lb men, and some fishing gear. Please confirm and advise if the 40 hp Yamaha is compatible with my requirements. The engine is equipped with a throttle, so I am not concerned with too much power...my concern is weight. Concerning twin engines, contra-rotating props, helipads, gyrocopters, and cabins....grow up. The FS-18 project is the direct result of other posters asking about modifying an existing design to meet more specialized needs. Without the questions Jacques may not have been aware of the need to market this new project at this time.

I think most of those people were joking. I don’t know about you but I think there is always room for a little humor.

-JB

Jerry,

I'm not sure if any of the comments you mention were directed at you. It's more of a commentary on the fact that every time Jacques comes out with a new design people immediately respond with, "I love it. Now can I dramatically change it in this manner?" As you referred to in your post, KS8 posted the whole two foot thing before you did. Only he did it as a joke. Two feet longer or shorter is asked many times on every design. So much so that it can be predicted with certainty. Nobody's poking fun at you. Not much of that goes on here. They're poking fun at the community as a whole. No problem.

I like it, cant wait to see the build notes and BOM

lots of possibilities for this one. I for one have a
question of sheer height from waterline?

This design of boat has intrigued me from the day
I found the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" web page

I wonder, if it were stretched 2 feet, say, to provide some additional buoyancy for a heavier engine, like the aforementioned 40 HP, would this be best implemented by adding sponsoons rather than stretching the transom back another two feet? Four thoughts behind the question...

1- It adds the additional buoyancy right at the engine
2- It effectively puts the driving force within the waterline instead of at the very back of it, and perhaps will help reduce some potential porpoising from the longer waterline? I am ignorant here and simply asking....
3- If used for duck hunting, we have heard from others that there is a theory that sponsoons help *hide* the *not natural* shape of an outboard from ducks.
4- It would not alter the nesting of the plywood parts, per the original design (which looks elegantly clean), if the sponsoons could be biaxed on as separate afterthoughts, if you will.

My 2 foot question was in earnest. Having followed the forums, most every new design has that question asked of it, along with 2 foot shorter (usually due to available building space), or wider beam, usually in earnest. I have benefitted greatly by following those insightful answers with other designs. My jest here was simply, in being the first to ask, and I did beat you to it Jerry. If it offended, that was not the intent. From it we learned of the higher potential for porpoising, and it would be great if point 2 above helps counter it, as that may be your answer fro getting slightly more buoyancy.

I'm eager to see the max HP when the study plans are complete as I know two people who might be interested in the design, and one of them might be offended by only a 15 or 25 HP (ah... youth...). Whether they are ultimately interested to build is another matter. I'll wait till friday on the max HP and max recommended speed for the hull and other final specs, before I link him the study plans page.

I hope that 40 works out for you Jerry.

I am interested about the sponsoons as one of those I am thinking of loves to fish and hunt and now lives very near the water. I'm trying to picture an fs18 or 20 (sponsoons) in camo. Maybe you duck hunters could tell me if the higher freeboard of this (over a typical duckboat) will cast too large a shadow and spook the ducks? I do not yet have any intuitions when it comes to duck hunting. Thanks....

For the capacity question, a little math:

1100 lbs design disp. @ 4" draft.
-250 lbs hull weight
-460 lbs two healthy fishermen
-180 lbs outboard motor (Yamaha 40HP)
leaves 210 lbs for fuel and gear.

That's a lot of fuel and gear. With a PPI of 280 lbs you could load 350 lbs of fuel and gear and still only draft 4½".

The "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" Guys use 40's
Same 4'/18' size.
Im sure the hull is different but weight is close.

I have a 50hp and a 9.5. So im screwed I guess.

---Cant wait---

--JB

My intent was not to appear mean spirited or lacking a sense of humor. I have a relatively thick skin. My concern was that one fellows' humor may have a chilling effect on others who want to ask questions. I appreciate the responses to my post. I look forward to tracking this forum daily because I learn something every time. I spent hours thinking about adding sponsons to my PH-18 in order to reduce draft, and finally decided to opt for another design. If I was too harsh in my post, I apologize. My intent was to emphasize that there's no such thing as a stupid question when asked in good faith. I too am looking forward to a new project, and am in hopes that the FS-18 is a viable option; otherwise, I'll build the XP-20. PAX.

Sign me up for one right now. I can pickup the needed PW on the way home

Obviously not every builder posts pictures of the build (I imagine Jacques would need several huge servers just for that). But when you decide on a design and finally get her launched, I think it safe to say that we all enjoy seeing another completed boat in her proper native element, skipper at the helm.

So... looking forward to seeing the project you decide on....

ks

Jerryholmes: the FS18 can take two men with gear as designed. No need to stretch the boat.
Look at the displacement at 4", 1,100 lbs should take care of it.

The 40 HP is another matter: it is too much power.
I did a preliminary run thorugh the USCG calculations and barely arrived at 25 HP.
The ideal engine is 15 HP, max. 25.
More will not only give a bad trim but make the boat difficult to control.
I am still working on the design and have to run the specs again through the Crouch formula but I believe that a 25HP will give 30 mph at 1,000 lbs.

I am still working on the design and have to run the specs again through the Crouch formula but I believe that a 25HP will give 30 mph at 1,000 lbs.

i am pretty sure that is an accurate number. my buddies boat that is similar in design but solid GRP skin has a 25 yamaha and loaded pretty heavy does just about 30 at WOT with 2 anglers 2 batteries a bowmount trolling motor a huge livewell plus fishing gear and you really don't want to run at that speed in this type of boat unless it is glass calm or just a ripple chop on the water. too much chop and you will get beat to death especially if you are the one sitting up front. i wouldn't even think about puttin a 40 on this hull. that would be one scary ride.

roob76 wrote:

I am still working on the design and have to run the specs again through the Crouch formula but I believe that a 25HP will give 30 mph at 1,000 lbs.

i wouldn't even think about puttin a 40 on this hull. that would be one scary ride.

But it sure beats paying 100bucks a day at Disney World, Orlando

you are right about that!

There might be some misunderstanding because the terminology isn't clear to everyone...

PPI Pounds Per Inch of Immersion. This means for every 280lbs. added or subtracted the boat will float 1" higher or lower in the water.

And at a designed displacement of 1100lbs and 4" of draft and a hull weight of only 250lbs, that means you have to add 850 lbs of motor gear and man to hit 4" of draft. I think that's pretty darn good. Thinking about it another way, imagine one guy with only a trolling motor and a bit of gear and a poll- you could probably float in two inches of water! That would be something.

(edited: there was a typo in the spreadsheet).
Just finished the final calculations.

Hull weight: depending on the skills of the builder, between 240 and 265 lbs.
I will show a light option that could be build at less than 220 lbs or even 200 lbs.
All our boats are very sturdy. This one will be able to crash on an oyster bed at 25 mph without sinking. We could make it lighter but there would be a price in toughness.

BOM:
5 sheets of 1/4", 3 sheets 3/8.
Resin: 6 gallons.
Glass: 3 rolls of biaxial tape 12 oz. and 33 yards 12 oz biaxial 50" wide.
With that, you can calculate cost.

Speed estimates:
loaded at 1,000 lbs, with a 25 HP = 32 mph, with a 15 HP, 25 mph.
At 800 lbs, 28.5 mph with a 15 HP.

USCG tag:
max. HP = 25.
Capacity persons and gear: 765 lbs or 4 persons.
-----------------

All together, it's exactly where we wanted it to be considering the program of the boat.

"At 800 lbs, 28.5 mph with a 15 HP. "

Awesome. I'm getting about 21 mph in the jon boat right now. Propped wrong however. BOM sounds very reasonable. I'm eager to see the plans/study plans to see how some of the cores can be used. At the beginning of the design process, you were kicking around having the front 6' of chine being rounded. Is this still an option?

Yes, that can be done. I will explain how to do it in the building notes.
I forgot to draw that. This may delay the publication of the plans by one day.

Jaques,
Whats the smallest HP required to plane?

JB

Jaques,
Whats the smallest HP required to plane?

JB

It depends on the weight.
I would say a 10HP when alone in the boat, maybe less. My formula, like most prediction formulas, is reliable in the middle of the range but not at the limits.
I have no problem to say that it will do 30 mph with a 25 or 25 with a 15 etc. but with 10 HP or less, I don't trust those figures anymore.
The formula shows 7.5 HP at WOT to get 18 mph which for this hull would be plane but I think it's minimum 10.

Jerry, just to show you nothing was aimed at you in the helicopter comment-I have always believed that no question is inappropriate.That's how we learn. But it's still okay to have a little fun.

JB, with 9.5 and 50hp, just mount the 50hp thrusting aft and the 9.5 thrusting to the bow, voila, 39.5 hp. Rube Goldberg, eat your heart out!

This thing is looking sweet Jacques, I can't wait until the plans are available. One quick comment on the 40 hp, "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" uses a 40 on the "Unnamed Skiff" which is more along the lines of a PH16, the most on the "canoe style skiff" I have seen is a 25hp, just like Jacques' max for this boat, "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" recommends 5-15hp for the "canoe style skiff" which is more like this boat.
This maybe a stupid question regarding displacement but what does it mean when the displacement @ DWL is 1450 lbs and PPI is 340? At 7.5", which is the DWL, the load is around 2500 lbs This is referring to the OB17 but can be related to this boat. Can I get a little explanation on this please? Especially the displacement @ DWL of 1450 lbs.

A note to Jacques and Joel,

I was going to post a link to a FAQ here that explains that, but the link in the FAQ goes to plans updates instead of "What do all those nautical terms mean in your plans".

dpurcell,

I think you may be reading that wrong. It's 1450lbs displacement at DWL of 7.5" draft. In other words, at 7.5" of draft, there is 1450lbs of boat, motor, men and gear in the water. For every 340lbs + or - the boat will raise or lower 1" of draft in the water respectively. So, at 1110lbs, you should have 6.5" of draft. In the other direction, at 1760lbs, you'll have 8.5" of draft, and you'll reach your scuppers at 2500lbs.

The 2500 lbs you're reading in the plans is for self-bailing status. That means that the boat will not have reached it's designed scuppers until you've got 2500lbs of boat, men and machine in the water.

(actually, I think the technical definition of displacement is the weight of the water the hull displaces at a given load, or something like that, but anyway)

DWL = designed waterline.

I think the technical definition of displacement is the weight of the water the hull displaces at a given load

That is correct

Thanks MadRUs, That is what I thought, but in another forum I could have sworn Jacques was saying the OB17 could be loaded to 2500 lbs and draw 7.5", I could be wrong, I will have to double check.
Donny

MadRUs, It was in the Waterline Question OB17 forum, Jacques first reply(third message) maybe 7.5" was not what Jacques meant...Jacques???

This is in the study plans section of the OB17:

We were able to obtain a safe average cockpit depth of 24" in a boat that is still self bailing at a displacement of 2,500 lbs!

This is sort of the inverse of what MadRus was saying. What this comment means is that even when loaded to a displacement of 2,500 lbs., the scuppers (drain holes) will not be submerged, and water will still drain out of the cockpit.

Then in the specifications, it says that the DWL is 7.5 inches, and the displacement at DWL is 1450 lbs. PPI (which is defined above) is 340 lbs.

So putting it all together, the comment from Jacques amounts to saying that at a draft of 9.5-10 inches (and a displacement of 2500 lbs.) the scuppers will still be above the waterline, and water will drain from the cockpit.

Thank you all: what you wrote is correct.

The weight of the hull is just that: only the hull as designed. You add your motor, fixed or portable tank, gear and whatever stuff you want. Some boats will weigh more than others: bigger engine, more stuff, you do the math.

The displacement at DWL (Designed Water Line) is the designers best guess of what the weight of the boat will be at normal load with everything on board including persons and fuel.
We don't really guess, we calculate the weight and CG of every part: plywood, resin, glass, engine, fuel, battery, persons etc. etc. Some of the spreadsheets for boats with cabin are 25 pages long.
We do a little bit of math and find out how the boat will float and put the DWL there.
And if the boat is self bailing, we put the cockpit sole level a little bit above that.

But not everybody is going to end up with the same weight: bigger or smaller engines, more or less persons etc.
For that reason we give you the PPI so that you can calculate how your boat will float.
PPI means Pounds Per Inch of immersion.
It is the weight to immerse the boat 1", the weight it takes to bring the boat down 1".

With all those figures, you can not only see what the capacity is but estimate where your waterline will be if you deviate from the plans and build her lighter or heavier.

ive been studying this style boat for quite some time...the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" guys only run 15's on theirs..one of the first few to have one (and there are only a handful) mounted a 25..he admits it was too much for that boat...another runs a 20 honda only because he is a guide and often carrys a heavy load...i think a 15 will be the ideal power for this hull...im planning to power with a four stroke 18 nissan, but thats me...this boat excites me...lol

I hate to be a pest but just trying to get this straight in my head (getting off on a tangent for this forum too, sorry guys , hopefully some other shallow water freaks are learning a bit from this as well). If the PPI of a hull is say.. 280 lbs and the hull weighs 280 it will draw 1"(hull only) ....correct? This is where I am confused with the OB17. The displacement @ DWL is 1450 lbs and PPI is 340...1450/340=4.25". BUT, DWL is 7.5". Is 1450 the amount of weight that can be added on top of estimated hull, engine, fuel, rigging weight to get 7.5"(aka floor height/self bailing draft)? Because 7.5in.*340lbs/in.=2550lbs
Donny

I agree with Mikebro! 15hp on a 4in setback jack! Talkin' skinny mini with all the speed ya need!!

reminds me of the Mitzi skiffs!

You guys should look at Tom C's jack plates, he makes light weight ones for gheenoes and "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" boats - http://www.tom.research.ucf.edu/pic/Gheenoe/TG1.pdf

He also has an electric one that would be nice on this boat, attached a link to the "canoe style skiff" that mikebro was talking about - http://www.inshore-fishing.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=11603

Taking measurements from study plans to check this out.

The ob17 weighs 750lbs- just the hull. The draft at the designed waterline is 7.5". And the displacement at that designed waterline is 1450 lbs. And the PPI (pounds per inch of immersion) is 340 lbs.

Therefore, unloaded, the boat will draft 750(Hull Weight)/340(PPI) = 2.2058823". Adding another 750 will bring you... eureka! You may be right, the draft would be more like 5" at 1450 and at 2500 it looks to be around 7.5". So the study plans may have a mistake there. It might be a much lower draft at DWL.

Jacques?

I hate to be a pest but just trying to get this straight in my head (getting off on a tangent for this forum too, sorry guys , hopefully some other shallow water freaks are learning a bit from this as well). If the PPI of a hull is say.. 280 lbs and the hull weighs 280 it will draw 1"(hull only) ....correct? This is where I am confused with the OB17. The displacement @ DWL is 1450 lbs and PPI is 340...1450/340=4.25". BUT, DWL is 7.5". Is 1450 the amount of weight that can be added on top of estimated hull, engine, fuel, rigging weight to get 7.5"(aka floor height/self bailing draft)? Because 7.5in.*340lbs/in.=2550lbs

A particular PPI applies only at one particular displacement. The PPI varies with the displacement. The only time it would be a constant is if the boat is a box, i.e. flat bottom with vertical sides. Because most boats have flare to the sides, the waterline beam increases as the boat is submerged, therefore the PPI increase as the boat is submerged. Therefore, you cannot do the simple math that you are trying to do.

Ralph

I hate to be a pest but just trying to get this straight in my head (getting off on a tangent for this forum too, sorry guys , hopefully some other shallow water freaks are learning a bit from this as well). If the PPI of a hull is say.. 280 lbs and the hull weighs 280 it will draw 1"(hull only) ....correct? This is where I am confused with the OB17. The displacement @ DWL is 1450 lbs and PPI is 340...1450/340=4.25". BUT, DWL is 7.5". Is 1450 the amount of weight that can be added on top of estimated hull, engine, fuel, rigging weight to get 7.5"(aka floor height/self bailing draft)? Because 7.5in.*340lbs/in.=2550lbs
Donny

If the boat was shaped like a brick your reasoning would be correct but not with a vee hull.
The PPI is at the DWL. That PPI increases above the DWL and tends to zero below it.
We do not use the PPI to calculate displacement, we use the real volume.
Don't worry, our figures are correct.

Thanks for the clarification Uncle Ralph, that is kinda what I was thinking. The PPI in this case applies only when the hull is drafting at or around 7.5". Now coming to think of it, the other boats I was thinking of (which is what was confusing me) had flatter bottoms therefore the simple math comes closer to being accurate. Although the comment Jacques made in the other post about 2500 lbs load yielding 7.5" draft still perplexes me.
Donny

Thanks Jacques your post must have gone on as I was typing

This is kind of on and off tipic sue me if its too far off
ONLY KIDDING JERRY

I just spoke to my trailer maker (custom trailers) given
the size, weight, and with 14" wheels the trailer for this
boat will be in the ball park of 850. This guy builds his
trailer PER the boat, not just a trailer that will work for
it.

Just thought I would throw this out so people can get a
good idea of total cost and what you should look to pay
for your trailer.

Can't wait to get my hands on the plans. Will start building it this spring. Been looking at the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer"'s and Gheenoe's for my son (6 1/2) to fish area lakes and back bays here in Houston area. Like the idea of building it myself, been looking at this option for a few years and am ready to take the plunge, especially with my very willing accomplice who is now old enough to help out.

Probably put a 15HP with mini jack plate, build in a bait well and spot for ice chest seat. and troll motor bracket on front.

BB

I planned to post the plans today but decided to finish some options first:
1. rounded chine forward
2. simplified version with no gunwales and smaller decks.
I know that most builders can figure those things out by themselves but if I dont show them, many will ask if it is possible.

I planned to post the plans today but decided to finish some options first:
1. rounded chine forward
2. simplified version with no gunwales and smaller decks.
I know that most builders can figure those things out by themselves but if I dont show them, many will ask if it is possible

I'm new here but have lurked form time to time. I ordered plans for the XP-20 but think I'll back burner for this one. Take your time, I'll wait.

You guys should look at Tom C's jack plates, he makes light weight ones for gheenoes and "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" boats - http://www.tom.research.ucf.edu/pic/Gheenoe/TG1.pdf

I've tried the electric jack plate on a Gheenoe Custom Classic and the mini manual on the "canoe style skiff" 18. His jack plates are the lightest on the market and Tom's great to work with. I've already called him about making one for the FS-18. Can't wait to build mine.

This will be my first attempt at building a boat. Anyone building one anywhere near New Port Richey that could/would offer advice?

Thx,
CR

What did he tell you the cost for the plate was? Also,
whats the weight?

Capt'n Ron

I'm in Brooksville .... will be glad to assist with some of the how to. It is real simple once you see it once - especially the idea of wet on wet. Remember: wood flour is your friend! Buy lots!

Dave
dshambone_60 (at) yahoo (dot) com

Wow, they're coming out of the woodwork. People can't get enough of the FS18, Jacques!!!!

Capt'n Ron,
I'm not real close, but I'll be in Gainesville trying to stumble through a build. I'll echo Fly's questions about price and weight on the jackplates. I've never heard of Tom C's until they were mentioned on this thread. They look interesting.

Elie

What did he tell you the cost for the plate was? Also,
whats the weight?

If you call the number on his site, he'll walk you through the options. Tell him Capt'nron sent ya and hopefully he won't hold it against you.

I really dont remember the cost since mine are over a year old now. Seems like the Mini Manual was around $250 to $300 and the Electric around $550 / $575?

Weight of the Electric was less than 20 lbs and the Manual has to be about half.

Like I said, give him a call or email him.

Will do, just trying to get ballpark figures to see what I
need to sell. lol

Great. Some local guys.

Hope the Jack Plate info helps. Tom specializes in Jack Plates for small skiffs.


Looking forward to building my first boat

Its a blast and a really bad addiction, ranks high on the
addiction list right along with sweets, booze, and smoking

Its the only addiction I find as tempting as fishing

jacquesmm wrote: BOM:
Glass: 3 rolls of biaxial tape 12 oz. and 33 yards 12 oz biaxial 50" wide.

Is the figure for the 50" wide correct? That would be enough
to do the hull outside, inside, sole, and deck and have nearly
30ft left over?

I'm liking this boat too. Was all set to order materials for the GF 18, already built the transom and most of the console, and now this comes out. It looks great Hmmmm......cheaper to build too, hmmmm.

I'm confused about something. Jacques said ...

The displacement at DWL (Designed Water Line) is the designers best guess of what the weight of the boat will be at normal load with everything on board including persons and fuel.

Isn't displacement actually the weight of the volume of water that is displaced by the hull submerged in the water? I think it has little to do with the actual weight of the boat.

O.K. I give up! I'll order the plans as soon as they are posted. I'll grow thicker skin so I can co-exist on this site. The trade-off is you will have to deal with my stupid questions and demented sense of humor that I have thus far held in abeyance. You asked for it. PAX.

Cool welcome to the parade

Hey Larry, this is the way an ole Yankee who has spent some time down your way, thinks of it. Picture quiet water, a bathtub, OK? Put anything in there that floats. Draw a line around that object at the waterline. Pick it up, look at it. The weight of the volume of water below the line is exactly equal to the weight of the object. The object poked a "hole" in the water, the water that was displaced. Add a pebble to your object, it'll will sink a little below the line.
When Jacques says a boat has 450 lbs PPI, he means for every 450 lbs of shrimp you add, you'll be an inch deeper. OK?

In the spirit of asking the inevitable..........can you add a tunnel?

you will not need a tunnel on this boat...trust that...with a 15 hp it would be a dog with a tunnel...motor set up right on a jackplate(setback)and the right prop, it will do better than with a tunnel...lets hear some other opinions, though...thats my 2 cents

all rounded chine more like a canoe and this babe
will be STEALTH.

I'm really looking forward to it!

O.K. I give up! I'll order the plans as soon as they are posted. I'll grow thicker skin so I can co-exist on this site. The trade-off is you will have to deal with my stupid questions and demented sense of humor that I have thus far held in abeyance. You asked for it. PAX.

Please continue your demented humor. As a fellow TEXAN it would be sourly missed.
Plus Im gonna need plenty of help with my FS18

Seriously you are one of the more active posters and your questions are always well thought out and valid.

In the spirit of asking the inevitable..........can you add a tunnel?

Im no marine engineer but I think that subject was seriously beat to death in the other post.

Rember The Alamo!
JB

O.K. I give up! I'll order the plans as soon as they are posted. I'll grow thicker skin so I can co-exist on this site. The trade-off is you will have to deal with my stupid questions and demented sense of humor that I have thus far held in abeyance. You asked for it. PAX.

Please do it for my sake. I'm too green to know what questions to ask.

OK all you Southeast Texas guys where are we getting the Marine plywood from? Haven't ever seen it at HD.

OK all you Southeast Texas guys where are we getting the Marine plywood from? Haven't ever seen it at HD.

Houstonhardwoods.com

Great folks in the Heights.
Every kinda wood you could imagine!

OK1088 Marine Plywood 1/2" $92.00
OK1088 Marine Plywood 1/4" $63.00
OK1088 Marine Plywood 3/8" $71.00
OK1088 Marine Plywood 3/4" $133.00

-JamesB

Isn't displacement actually the weight of the volume of water that is displaced by the hull submerged in the water? I think it has little to do with the actual weight of the boat.

As Archimedes figured out a couple of thousand years ago - the two are the same. The weight of the displaced water is equal to the weight of a submerged or floating object. See: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0804583.html

Ralph

capt'nron wrote:

You guys should look at Tom C's jack plates, he makes light weight ones for gheenoes and "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" boats - http://www.tom.research.ucf.edu/pic/Gheenoe/TG1.pdf

I've tried the electric jack plate on a Gheenoe Custom Classic and the mini manual on the "canoe style skiff" 18. His jack plates are the lightest on the market and Tom's great to work with. I've already called him about making one for the FS-18. Can't wait to build mine.

This will be my first attempt at building a boat. Anyone building one anywhere near New Port Richey that could/would offer advice?

Thx,
CR

Ron,

I'm right next door and am building an FS14 at the present time.

Derrick

BOM:
Glass: 3 rolls of biaxial tape 12 oz. and 33 yards 12 oz biaxial 50" wide.

Is the figure for the 50" wide correct? That would be enough
to do the hull outside, inside, sole, and deck and have nearly
30ft left over?

Thank you for noticing that: I made a typo in the spreadsheet.
It changes the BOM and weight.

Here are the corrected figures:
----------------
Hull weight: depending on the skills of the builder, between 240 and 265 lbs.
I will show a light option that could be build at less than 220 lbs or even 200 lbs.
All our boats are very sturdy. This one will be able to crash on an oyster bed at 25 mph without sinking. We could make it lighter but there would be a price in toughness.

BOM:
5 sheets of 1/4", 3 sheets 3/8.
Resin: 6 gallons.
Glass: 3 rolls of biaxial tape 12 oz. and 13 yards 12 oz biaxial 50" wide.
With that, you can calculate cost.

Speed estimates:
loaded at 1,000 lbs, with a 25 HP = 32 mph, with a 15 HP, 25 mph.
At 800 lbs, 28.5 mph with a 15 HP.

USCG tag:
max. HP = 25.
Capacity persons and gear: 765 lbs or 4 persons.
-----------------

Funny we are all hangin around like a
bunch of buzzards waitin on this new
design to hit the web page. lol


But I still see 33 yards of 50" wide?

I thought the purpose of a jackplate is to be able to adjust the motor height while under way, so as to best optimize the depth of the prop for the conditions at any point in time. With a manual jack plate, and the one you guys have shown us looks really cool, you would have to at least stop running and make the adjustment before continuing. Is this an acceptable inconvenience versus the added weight of a hydraulic adjustable plate?

That plate does have an electric motor version to make it adjustable underway but that is only one advantage of a jack plate. Just by the setback alone, the engine can be mounted slightly higher to reduce draft somewhat, of course if it able to be adjusted underway further reduction in running draft can be achieved. Another benefit of the set back is the prop will be turning in cleaner less turbulent water which in turn increases speed and efficiency.

I don't know about your back but mine couldn't stand
trying to lift a 112lb motor that is lower than my knees
then tighten some bolts. Most I have seen adjust the
plate for an all around good feel and how shallow they
may go and hammer down....

That extra 300 or so bucks to me is money well spent

Scott, thanks for your response on this. I couldn't agree more, trying to lift even a 25hp motor on the transom of an 18 foot flats skiff with a poling platform on top of the motor makes no sense. I guess i was trying to get a sense of how important the variability of the motor height would be.

I agree Scott, the power version would be much better IMHO, but I was just explaining the benefits of a manual jack alone.

Funny we are all hangin around like a
bunch of buzzards waitin on this new
design to hit the web page. lol

That's what I'm trying to do, but this whole work thing keeps getting in the way. I keep coming back and checking to see if the page is up. It's worse than when I used to smoke. At least this addiction is healthier.

I don't know about your back but mine couldn't stand
trying to lift a 112lb motor that is lower than my knees
then tighten some bolts. Most I have seen adjust the
plate for an all around good feel and how shallow they
may go and hammer down....

That extra 300 or so bucks to me is money well spent

Tom's manual plate has an adjuster built in. It is normally used to fine tune. EZPZ Once set, most of us leave it alone. These are used with boats that are a little more weight sensitive to keep the motor as close to the transom as possible.

IMHO if you are going for a 4" plus setback, then go for the electric. As already pointed out, you get the best of both worlds and can adjust on the fly. I had an electric on a Custom Classic Gheenoe with a 25 HP merc 2 stroke and I could raise the motor up a total of six inches.

Just my .00000000000002 sense

[

Need an extra pair of hands?

Uncle Ralph and Lon, thanks for replying. I must have had a brain cramp. Yesterday was a long day.

capt'nron wrote:

[

I have been doing most of the work solo except when two hands and two feet are not enough.....

I could always use some help. I have not found anybody crazy enough to build a boat close by.

I live near the Anclote Power Plant.

Derrick

I could always use some help. I have not found anybody crazy enough to build a boat close by.

I live near the Anclote Power Plant.

Derrick

I can be there in about 15 to 20 mins.

Is today the day?

capt'nron wrote:

I could always use some help. I have not found anybody crazy enough to build a boat close by.

I live near the Anclote Power Plant.

Derrick

I can be there in about 15 to 20 mins.

Ron,

Email me your contact info..

Derrick

Ron,

Email me your contact info..

Derrick

No email in your profile and it appears this forum does not allow for PM's. My emal addy: captainron4t6@hotmail.com

When you click on the email box (I see one under his message), a box open and you can type an email.
The system does not show email addresses to protect you from spam but the receiver will see your email address and you will see his when he responds.

Are the plans going to hit the web today? I'm real anxious to send you some money. Also, will your kit supplier have the CAD files?

Not today, not tomorrow . . . I am still working on that rounded chine option.

jacquesmm wrote:When you click on the email box (I see one under his message), a box open and you can type an email.
The system does not show email addresses to protect you from spam but the receiver will see your email address and you will see his when he responds.

OK, Is this pick on the new guy. I know I'm blind but I don't see an email box under his message.? I do see email boxes under other posts though.

I see one under dborecky.
I'll check that on Monday.

jacquesmm wrote:I see one under dborecky.
I'll check that on Monday.

Gheeeeez that was quick. I see one under yours. Maybe I'm under probation. Thanks.

My ears were burning, I now see why. If anyone has a question about my Jack Plates PM or call me.

holy cow!! a gheenoe hghsider with a 25 on a jackplate. that thing must go over 35 easy. my back hurts just lookin at it.

Tom,
How bout an open date group buy for us Bateau builders

capt'nron wrote: I had an electric on a Custom Classic Gheenoe with a 25 HP merc 2 stroke and I could raise the motor up a total of six inches.

Did Tom build you a special one? I haven't seen one in person, but I ask because I have seen all of his drawings and know he uses a Lenco Troll'n'Tab electric actuator for the movement on the electric ones. This actuator has about a 4 inch stroke. The fairly short stroke length is the only reason I didn't buy one for my GF-16T. I was going to build my own, but couldn't justify it in the end.

One other note is that a jackplate (just like a tunnel) will actually increase static draft. By shifting the weight of the outboard back 4-6 inches you change the lever by which it can exert it's force on the hull. Both a tunnel and a jackplate (especially when used together) will produce significantly less running draft though.

Tim

timoub007 wrote:

Did Tom build you a special one? I haven't seen one in person, but I ask because I have seen all of his drawings and know he uses a Lenco Troll'n'Tab electric actuator for the movement on the electric ones. This actuator has about a 4 inch stroke. The fairly short stroke length is the only reason I didn't buy one for my GF-16T. I was going to build my own, but couldn't justify it in the end.

One other note is that a jackplate (just like a tunnel) will actually increase static draft. By shifting the weight of the outboard back 4-6 inches you change the lever by which it can exert it's force on the hull. Both a tunnel and a jackplate (especially when used together) will produce significantly less running draft though.

Tim

Beacause of the 5" backset, the motor starts out about 2" to 2-1/2 higher depending on the installation.. Then I can jack about 4 to 4-1/2 "'s higher from that point. That's why I stated a "total" of about 6". It might be a little higher but I tend to give conservative figures ( I'm tierd of the hype w/ draft numbers). Shifting the weight back 5", I estimate I lost about one inch in draft so my net gain was over 5" and I must note that this was done with a lot of prop work.

Thanks for the clarification. If he was building one that actually moved 6 inches I might have to rethink buying one.

I only wanted to clarify the draft issues as there seems to be a few people interested in all of that. To me, static draft is not as important as running draft. That is why I built the only GF-16 with a tunnel (and took a lot of criticism while doing it too).

Thanks again,
Tim

I am starting think I will NEED one of these boats.

To me, static draft is not as important as running draft. That is why I built the only GF-16 with a tunnel (and took a lot of criticism while doing it too).

Thanks again,
Tim

You TX'ns have those long skinny flats to cross. On the FL W. coast normally we just need to get past the "skinny" to get back to deeper water. See Springhillsteve's posts. Running draft is important because the bottom is rock . Low tides this time of year dictate the boat used.

How does the GF-16 work with the tunnel? What is the running and static draft?

IM looking at the FS-18 to get the 25 hp rating. 25 hp has a better prop selection which is important with running the jack plate.

Don't want to derail this thread any further with talk about my GF-16. Click on the link in my signature, then go to the last or next to last page if you don't want to read about the entire build. That should tell you how much I like it, but if you still have a question ask me there.

Thanks,
Tim

Looking at the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" website today. I really like the thought of an extension tiller and a grab rail. What would be the best way to mount one on this boat?

I was thinking of constructing a coffin box like in the Hell's bay pictures. beefing it up with layers of glass, and just bolting a custom made, U-shaped grab bar to the back of it. Ideally, I would think the bar should span between the coffin box and the starboard gunnel, as it would be more comfortable to have it on the right hand side. Then wiring could be run from the gunnel, up through the tubing to a crossbar, and connected to GPS, jackplate or trim tab switches, depthfinder, etc. Everything would at your fingertips while running. Still debating this as I'm not sure if I want to block the right side of the boat with a grab bar. I like the idea of not putting holes in the sole though.

Elie

Ellie

Why not mount the switches and gps on the starboard
gunwale and run the wires under it? You can mount
hand rails on the gunwales also to keep the paths clear
Don't know about you but the only time I need a gps
is to find my way out

Its killin me, where are the study plans

I was hoping they would be up during my lunch hour because I'm going to have to spend the rest of the day away from the computer. The wait is almost painful.

As far as the grab bar goes, I think we may be talking about different things. On the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer"'s, one option is a handhold so that you can run standing with a tiller extension with less chance of eating it into the front deck or falling overboard. This link shows what I'm talking about.

http://eastcapecanoes.com/photos/image. ... age_id=349

I was talking about having the same setup but with the inside leg bolting to the coffin box back. Wiring would be in 1/2 a piece of PVC glued under the gunnel and run up through the U-bar. What do you think?

The Hell's Bay actually has all the switches on the bulkhead under the back deck. This way when you're running sitting, you just reach down by your right leg and hit the buttons. The boat I was on had tabs and trim/tilt set up this way.

Yeah I thought you were talkin about that stipper bar or
dancin pole

Not sure I would want that thing in my back cast, I have
been known to be pretty wild .... I am going
to do the bulkhead thing myself for switches and such.
I have an actuator around here I have been dying to
use I may mount my electronics and motorize them
out of something. Dunno yet.... I liked the GPS about
where my last one was near the starboard gunwale
this kept people from getting my numbers due to the
angle. I will have to play with the angle on this boat
to see where I can see it better.

I can tell you this I'm damn sure not gonna go all nuts
with all the wood I did on my last boat. This is going to
be SIMPLE, just like all the boats we have shown on this
thread.

this boat (and all boats) can obviously be outfitted to each and every owner's needs...but, my plan is simple, simple...the more electronics, and hydraulics....the more weight...battery, etc.. im thinking clamp-on running lights when needed..manual mini jack(we have one made localy here--mini cajun jacker, aroun 130 dollars)the key to this design is the simplicity...i even have a plan for trim tabs that require no power...if i want to hop a marsh bank to the next pond, no problem with 2 guys and only 350 pounds of boat motor and gear..just something to think about...

Please give details on the inexpensive manual jackplate and the trim tabs. If I'm going to build this boat I want to go ultralight. Can you adjust the jackplate while in motion? I have a friend here in Nederland who has one that is adjustable while moving. I'm thinking about pulling a pattern off of it. I realyy want to stay under 4".draft, static.

Second issue...poling platform. Where I fish the water is always turbid. You can't see the redfish in one foot of water. I seldom see a tailing fish....but I use a trolling motor. Can you spot fish in shallow turbid water? Am I missing seeing fish because of the trolling motor, even in turbid water? This is important because I don't want to add the weight of a poling platform if it isn't going to be helpful.

I wasn't sure if this thing was going to have a sole to it or not, with no study plans yet. If you were to put an "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" style grab bar/rail in it, it would need to be prety stout to hold up to its intended use. If you would mount it to the boats sole I would think you would need a good size backing plate.

jerryholmes wrote:
Second issue...poling platform. Where I fish the water is always turbid. You can't see the redfish in one foot of water. I seldom see a tailing fish....but I use a trolling motor. Can you spot fish in shallow turbid water? Am I missing seeing fish because of the trolling motor, even in turbid water? This is important because I don't want to add the weight of a poling platform if it isn't going to be helpful.

I fish in the chocolate milk water myself. If you fish
shallow water a platform is still of use because you
can see those waking, bulging fish. I don't think a
trolling motor scares them in this color of water, but
that is depending on the area. I have had the motor
nearly go right over fish in 4ft of water in clear water
and they didn't ever move. However, I have been in
little creeks and back waters where even the boat
will spook them off. A platform for this little narrow
boat will only weigh in the 20lb range. I do think they
are worth the money but then again if your the only
one fishing and you use the trolling motor just get a
good bow platform, say 12" to 18" tall.

i have pics of the jack plate, and i have some drawings for the trim tabs...but they are on my computer at home...ill be home tomorrow...ill put some up here so you can see...the jack is not adj under way...its a set and forget type of thing(once fine tuned, no problem)...weighs very little, i will be building my own this time around(i have one to copy)...the trim tabs are very simple...i ll have to show...cant explain....very common design down here...

about the fishing...my marsh, im sure is like yours in tx...i fish for redfish commonly in 1 foot to 18 inches, maybe 2 foot of water at the most....i can trolling motor around...but in the small ponds i fish(1/2 to 1 acre with ditches connecting series of ponds together), the first clump of grass the tm hits, the reds in that pond are spooked for 1/2 to an hour....thats why im wanting this boat....to pole....my aluminum tunnel boat(4 inch draft, run in 4inches) is a pain to pole...as ive said earlier, i had come up with my own design boat to build, but this one came and i trust a professional's design...mine would be alot of trial and error, probably...

the water i fish is brown...sight fishing is very occasional...we just blind cast to cuts and drains and what i call funnels....where ponds get real narrow...

so, as far as the poling platform....i havent decided yet...this boat should be able to be poled from the back deck(hence, the narrow beam)...ive never had a poling platform, my clumsy, 2 left footed self would probably fall off

http://www.anglerschat.com/showthread.p ... #post25254

look at the pics in posts 2 and 3 for pics of the jackplate...for pics of the trim tabs, i have to get them tom from home....i actually had these on my ipod...

Jerry,

The plate mikebro posted is similar to mine. The only difference is mine has turn-buckles on each side that should allow you to lift the motor without the use of a floor jack (once you loosen the bolts). Mike Watson (Watson's Propellor) makes these kind of plates for about the same money mikebro posted. He made the one that Brian had on his scooter.

As for trim tabs, you should go with the Smart Tabs. They really worked on my GF-16T and are fairly cheap and very light.

I wouldn't go for a poling platform. You could put a small bow platform on it though since you'll be fishing from the front. If you get someone 225+ up on a poling platform, your static draft is going to suffer. Put that weight up front and you should be okay. Not sure you're going to run a trolling motor to well in 4 inches though.

Let me know if you want to see the Smart Tabs. I'm not going out in this weather though.

Tim

Im all for super light. Like my neighbor Jerry I wanna keep it shallow. Id love to see the trim tabs! I want to use em but dont want to deal with the weight of hydro or a huge battery.
I also will use a TM but only when i fish alone. I like the removable TM mount on the "Unnamed Boat Manufacturer" page. The idea of simple and flexible is very appealing to me.

I also want to add a bait well that I will use mostly as dry storage but pipe it just in case i use bait.

I think there are gonna be like 10 people building this boat at the same time.
Has anything like this ever happened on this site before?

Man, this is gonna be fun!

-JB

Trolling motor bracket.
http://www.birdsallmarine.com/page29.html

I had one on my OB and it worked great. Best thing to do is make a
really large backing plate when you make your decks. Mine wasn't
large enough and I had some deck flex with a 54lb trolling motor.

At one time we had prolly 5 or 6 of us working at the same time
on OB15's it was pretty cool. We all came up with little tricks and
tips along the way. I'm sure this one will not be any different in
that respect. It should be fun.

im thinking...a buildoff...see who gets theirs completed first....nah...just playin..

about the trolling motor...i was thinking the same thing, just didnt say it...it is possible to be following reds shallower than the tm can run...it will just kick up mud in less than a foot...thats kind of where i was going with the comment about spooking the reds in a pond....kicking mud and hitting grass, that ole minn-kota is no longer the quiet power that catches fish...lol...i will post the drawings i have for the trim tabs tom...i sold the boat they were on, and since, the new owner has had friends of his call me to find out where i got them...i just tell them they are homemade...and they were....but i have alum welding machine and all at my disposal...the smart tabs are a very good option....i have no personal exp with them, but know people that do...

Is Aluminum tough to weld?
I have a small MIG setup and would love to fab some stuff for the boat.

Is Aluminum tough to weld?

kinda. mig welder is not really suited for welding aluminum. it might work though. but you really need a tig welder for aluminum. and you have to be carefull on the heat. too much and you will warp your aluminum. and ther are many different rods for the different grades of aluminum so if you want your weld top be as strong as the material you are welding you have to use the right rod.

not that i weld aluminum but a buddy of mine does. he makes custom turbo setups for Volkswagens and regularly welds stainless steel and aluminum pipping. he also made me a very nice rap around aluminum plate for the outboard on my bayboat.

mig welder is not really suited for welding aluminum

WHAT?

You must not have been to a few of the all aluminum shipyards here lately have you? At Austal, Mig is all we use in the complete construction of our ships...the only Tig done anywhere is done by pipe fitters with steel, copper, and bronze pipes.

As far as the warpage goes...you just have to watch your heat. Don't weld to much at a time and allow everything to cool before striking another arc. Also, where ever possible, try and use a strongback of some sort to keep any warp from taking place. But as long as you go slow and let things cool as you go, you shouldn't have any problems with Mig .

yup you are right. here is a read on welding that i found.

http://www.nomma.org/support/Welding%20 ... minum.html

Please stay on topic. We go all over the place in this thread. It make it difficult to read and search.
I close this thread.
If you want to discuss Aluminum, start a new thread and keep it about our designs or products please.

It seems everyone excitement over this little boat has ruffled some feathers:

We have been threatened with legal action from a boat manufacturer if we do not remove all of YOUR postings that even mention their product by name.

They wrote:

“If you feel the need to single our company out regarding this matter, you can tell your message board users that you have never received and will not receive the permission _____ to use any of ______’s materials and that they should refrain from referencing our company and/or any of its products by name. Please rectify this situation by no later than forty-eight hours from the time this email is sent.â€