Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Ken Ford wrote:Why not design two boats – a VG 18 and a AD16?

You can build the Vagabond-Plus (VG20) without the transom skirts and it becomes the Vagabond (VG18). The plans already exist. Or were you thinking of something else?

Hi Jacques.

Question #3: should I just stretch the AD14 with minimal changes?

The Adelie design is great for what is intended, as Justin said. I'm aiming at several adventurous short periods each year, no long term occupancy, in a MINIMUM sail boat. Your AD14 plans are fine and I'm still committed to build ASAP; there is only one thing that worry me, and maybe other EU builders: length at water line. I think an AD16+ could be more appreciated in some countries due to those law & regulation limitations we talked about in another thread. Do you agree ?

When the classic +10% question arose for the first time, your answer was:

Yes, you can scale the plans by 10%.
I would scale 10% in length only.

http://forums.bateau2.com/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=29

You're saying a +10% Adelie is still a good boat, but a +10% in length only is better (compared to a AD16, with a +10% in every dimension). Please, correct me if I didn't understand well.

I think that to scale 10% in length only is a +/- trivial task for a carefull builder, except hull panels. This was the ONLY reason I asked a custom design modifications: because I trust you ("I would scale 10% in length only") and I lack the knowledge in CAD (and the CAD itself, BTW) to do it by myself.

So, while a VG16 could be an interesting boat for other people, what I was asking for is one very simple drawing sheet showing new hull panels development dimensions with that 10% lenghtwise only rescale and the skirts. About the skirts, you could recycle some documentation from VG20 plans and let us adapt and measure from the boat.

We already have a great design; for those, like me, just interested in more water line, this simple plans addendum would be a bless.

If it will cost a 10% of the plans (ok, the skirts ... we'll negotiate ), eMail delivery, I'll buy it.

Fair winds

Angelo


P.S. Against my economic interests, I want to tell you a funny story about "manual" task raising costs:

A guy went to an auto repair shop and complained with the shop owner about a defect in his car engine; the shop owner watched the engine, carefully, and slammed a precise hammer shot; he tested the engine and now it was OK; then he said to the guy:

- That's 50 bucks. -
- Wow, 50 for a single hammer shot ! - the guy replied.
- No, no, the shot is costing you 1. -
- Well, what are the other 49 for ? -
- They're for my decision about WHERE to shot. -

Rick wrote:Or were you thinking of something else?

Yes, a smaller boat but in the VG five panel style, a VG16 with the optional skirt making it a VG18 with minimal cruising accommodations but not the camper style conditions of a AD16.

We may do a VG16 later ( or never) but this morning, Ryan and I scaled the AD14 to 16.
A simple lengthwise scale. We use the same rig, same CB keel.
We need 2 or 3 days to draft the plans. It takes a little more work than just scaling the panels: new nesting, new frames, move all appendages and sailplan, redo hatch etc.
I have to do the hydrostatics: the longer hull will float higher and I will add some ballast.
Tomorrow is a holiday in the US and everything is closed until Monday.
The AD16 plans should be ready by the end of next week, web page one week later.
Angelo and Ken will get an upgrade at a special low price for their participation on this project.

abr wrote:what I was asking for is one very simple drawing sheet showing new hull panels development dimensions with that 10% lenghtwise only rescale

Angelo, I figured out that if you multiply all longitudinal dimensions by 1.125 this will result in a 16' boat and a faster hull using the same frames. For the cut out of the hull sides the typical becomes 27" rather than 24" and the longitudinal dimension at the bow gets multiplied by the 1.125 factor. The frames can be distributed along the longer hull by adding 3&5/8" each time you locate a frame. The first frame near the bow (Frame A) get moved 3&5/8" aft. Frame B gets moved 7&1/4" (3&5/8"+3&5/8") aft. Frame C gets moved (3&5/8"+3&5/8"+ 3&5/8") aft etc. Sorry about the English measurements but you have a calculator, right? I will be applying the 1.125 factor to all longitudinal measurements including the centerboard and its case, cabin sides, deck, rudder, tiller, and even the boom and sail. Ken

The AD16 plans should be ready by the end of next week, web page one week later.

Will the study plan explain any advantages the AD16 has over the AD14?

Angelo and Ken will get an upgrade at a special low price for their participation on this project.

Jacques, now you have me thinking about the AD16... Will there be a non-special upgrade price for all current AD14 plan holders?

Oops! Sorry Jacque, you must have posted your response to Angelo while I was typing mine. I hope that doesn't cut me out of the special discount you mentioned. I am interested in doing it correctly.

On an eariler thread about the frame running through the window. I would never eliminate a designed frame on a boat of yours (space them out a little maybe). All I was suggesting was that the frame move through the window space at the same diagonal angle as the aft edge of the window. You can see what I mean at http://128.186.7.22/ken/ This may necessitate adding an additional ceiling frame in a new location but since my ceiling frames will be foam I see this as a good thing, not bad. By mounting an outside trim piece on this diagonal frame line, it physically makes the boat stronger as well as making it look stronger too. I just think if you stretch the window that it looks better on the outside to show midway support and on the inside it looks more like you figured for the frame passing through the window. Ken

Advantages? It's a larger boat with all what that entails.
The program for the AD14 was to design a 14' boat, not a 16.
If you go back, you will see that most were asking for a very samll crusier and that is what we designed.

Window worries: why not cut the opening smaller? Why is that window such a problem? You will never see it from outside.
The window shape is very important esthetically. It flows with the other lines.
You could cut the opening in such a way that it doesn't overlap the frame but keep the Plexiglass as designed.

I like the pictures on your link Jacques. Though I am a total amateur at building boats it seems to me that an AD16 would be simpler than a shortened VG. My vote is for a larger cabin and sit in cockpit. Yes I know all the reasons its safe but as you said you wont get your family out there sailing with a sit on top cockpit. At least I wont.
Lori

Wow! A AD16 on the way...maybe my winter project. I dont suppose the AD16 will have a sit in cockpit????
Lori