Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Got some questions that I hope I can get answered here but first what I have done to the boat so far.

I removed the top half of boat, removed the soles, and all of the flotation foam. I have found wet cores and wet stringers.

The two inner most stringers are removed (one piece) and now the questions. The stringers are made from 3/4 pine board, or at least its not plywood and are 10" at its tallest. I don't think I will be able to find a pine 1x12 18 foot long, so I am planning on using 3/8 douglas fir.

I will be using epoxy, but am not sure which weight of biaxial to use on stringers. Also not sure how many layers to use.

When I get to the transom I will be using 1708, as that seems to be the standard recommendation.

I am confused about using mat and epoxy, seems some say it isnt necessary.

The glass on current stringers look about 1/16" thick. On the transom the glass looks to be 3/16" thick. ( transom plywood is 2")

I will try to post pictures but am very computer challenged. The boat is 19.6 ft long. 200hp outboard.

More info on boat while I try to figure out how to post a picture. The boat is 19.5 ft long, 86" wide. The stringers are spaced on 10.5" centers and there are 4 of them. Seems like there was woven cloth on stringers about 1/16 total thickness. The stringers are made of solid wood, maybe pine, 3/4" thick.

The cores, which are wet, are 1 1/2" wide and 1/2" thick. They are beveled on both sides at close to 45 degrees. There are a total of 7 of these, one of which is in the very bottom and doesn't look to be made the same but I haven't cut them out yet.

Alrighty then

Hi Backwoods. Posting pix will get your post a lot more traction. Go to the post it notes in the first part of the forum for a how to on posting pix. You will get better results as well if you narrow your questions down to specific parts of the build. Also read through some of the detailed builds on here and you will get a much better feel for what will be involved and the best way to do things. Read all of the how to's and so forth as well. That will get you a long ways to asking good pointed questions that will get a good response from the forum members.

thanks and welcome to the board.

TG

can I epoxy glue, fillet, and tape in succession? Or do I need to let glue set, and then fillet and tape?

I cant seem to get a url from the pictures on my computer, if my pics had a url address I am sure I could post them.

Hi Backwoods,

If you need, you can email the pics to me, and I can put them up for you.

wegcagle at gmail

Will

To answer your other question, I usually let the glue kick before proceeding. Otherwise the stuff your gluing becomes a mess . Everyone has there way of making filets. I use the method described by Cracker Larry (Larry please correct me as needed )

1. Lay the filet
2. 30 minute cubra libre break let the filet firm up to where it's tough to change it's shape by pushing on it.
3. Paint some neat epoxy over the filet
4. Lay the tape and wet it out with neat epoxy.

Hope this helps.

thanks, I will email you some pics this evening.

I cant seem to get a url from the pictures on my computer, if my pics had a url address I am sure I could post them.

You first have to upload them to an online photo storage site, then link to them. You can start a gallery here on the Bateau site, http://gallery.bateau2.com/ or use photobucket or similar.

Will answered your other question, that is the best and fastest way to do it.

thanks larry, I figured it was something simple.

Although I may not add much to this thread, I'm looking forward to following the pictures and comments of your restoration.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... 950000.jpg


This pic is of center two stringers removed. I started to remove some wet hull stiffeners, which were 11/2" wide and 1/2" thick.



This is the transom area as found. You can see where the plywood sole ended in front of the livewell pumps and glass was draped off the end, I left the glass sticking up for reference. I assume the proper way to rebuild this area is to run the sole closer to transom then epoxy glue it to the step.

The hull stiffeners, if thats the proper word, are made of 1/2" ply with a 45 angle on each side. The ends were just butted and towards the bow the pieces were short. I assume that's not the proper method to use and if its not, what would you recommend?

I have found some of the stiffeners to be dry so I won't have to replace them all, but considering the construction method used, should I?

Any thoughts Joel?

If you're taking pictures of the entire process, and have resale value even remotely in mind, replacing them all might be the way to go, but after creating some proper support for the hull from the other side first, I imagine, so it doesn't deform while working on it.

resale isnt a concern, just don't want to have this problem again.

Joel is out of the office today, he will reply tomorrow.
You are correct that extending the sole all the way to the transom and tabbing it all around including to the transom, will be stronger.
Does that not interfere with the cap?

There is still a good amount of grinding to be done.
Dry framing can stay but it must be really dry and nothing can peel away from hull skin.
Secondary bonds (between hull and other glass components) are the weak point.
Everything that even slightly peels away must go.

The sole near transom does not come in contact with the cap. I have been grinding any light colored glass and I'm pleased to note that it seems in better condition than many I have seen on here.

The "hull stiffeners" need to be replaced with the same thickness core. It might be difficult to remove one without removing other, especially if they are covered with the same piece of fiberglass.

The two inner most stringers are removed (one piece) and now the questions. The stringers are made from 3/4 pine board, or at least its not plywood and are 10" at its tallest. I don't think I will be able to find a pine 1x12 18 foot long, so I am planning on using 3/8 douglas fir.

I assume you mean laminating 2 layer of plywood? that is what I would do.

I will be using epoxy, but am not sure which weight of biaxial to use on stringers. Also not sure how many layers to use.

12 oz tape for the tabbing, and 17 or 1708 to cover them. You need to replace at least the old thickness

I am confused about using mat and epoxy, seems some say it isnt necessary.

matt is not necessary for strength (with epoxy) , but it does add thickness more quickly than only biax.

The current hull stiffeners are 1/2" thick plywood that is 1.5" wide at bottom and 3/4" wide at top. Sides are cut at a 45 degree angle. Do you think I will have a problem using 1708 over this? There were bubbles on top of them in spots when I tore it apart.

no, if you bevel it back at an angle, and use some putty (thickened epoxy) as a tiny fillet, there should be zero air bubbles

This is the starboard side after sanding and removing the hull stiffner


This location is where the bilge pumps are mounted, I removed plywood to check for water, everything looks ok.


This is towards bow and shows how the hull stiffeners all come together



Hopefully this weekend I can get everything cleaned and start glueing stiffeners back in place.

I have my hull stiffeners glued in the hull and I assume that I need to glass all of them in before I add stringers. I'm thinking that my next step is to sand glue and wipe with acetone. Coat stiffeners with epoxy, add fillets, then tab with 1 layer of 12 oz cloth then 1 or 2 layers of 1708. Is this the correct procedure?

I think the strength of those stiffeners probably comes more from the glass than the wood core -- I'd get a layup schedule from Joel. If you already got one, by all means proceed.

The old stiffeners had a layer of mat and 2 layers of roven cloth. I assume that 2 or 3 layers of biaxial will be as strong or stronger. Correct me if I'm wrong

backwoods1975 wrote:The old stiffeners had a layer of mat and 2 layers of roven cloth. I assume that 2 or 3 layers of biaxial will be as strong or stronger. Correct me if I'm wrong

All things being equal, same weight of biaxial glass with fibers in same direction is stronger than woven roving.

The variables in strength introduced by how well the man in the factory did his lamination vs. how you will do yours is more than the difference in strength between the two materials ...... that is why we play it safe and recommend building back the same thickness that was there before.

How many layers to build up to 1/8 inch?

about 2 layers of 1708

How in the world do I keep the little white spots out from under 1708 cloth? I get it looking all nice then turn my head and BAM! there they are.

supposing that you have enough resin on it... that normally means there is something sticking up, or a depression on the surface

how bad does that hurt the strength of the glass. I'm thinking it was a combination of both. I'm doing better but should the resin be smooth on top of the cloth? so far mine hasnt been. I can still feel the cloth but they are coated in resin. Make sense

No, it won't be smooth on top of the cloth, the weave should still stand out. It needs to be smooth under the cloth before you put it down, then wet out good, repeatedly, with a roller.

pictures of the situation?

Cracker Larry wrote:No, it won't be smooth on top of the cloth, the weave should still stand out. It needs to be smooth under the cloth before you put it down, then wet out good, repeatedly, with a roller.

So in the case where one layer of biax goes over another, do you fill the weave of the bottom layer with epoxy & woodflour? What if you're working left side/right side of the hull in one operation and the pieces of fiberglass overlap in the middle- straight epoxy or some filler under the overlap?

So in the case where one layer of biax goes over another, do you fill the weave of the bottom layer with epoxy & woodflour? What if you're working left side/right side of the hull in one operation and the pieces of fiberglass overlap in the middle- straight epoxy or some filler under the overlap?[/quote]

Not if your working wet on wet. If your going over cured epoxy/glass, after sanding a loose slury of epoxy/wood flower helps. Wet on wet just work the overlap with an epoxy roller.

This is the pad where the bilge pumps will mount.


This picture shows some of the spots I am talking about.

It looks like you may not be starting with a very flat or smooth surface so it will be hard to get the heavier cloth to lay down in there and it will require more resin to fill those gaps or it may pull in air bubbles.. You may need to grind a little more, but overall I don't think it looks that bad. You are still getting a lot of surface area bond and that is primarily just adding thickness, so I don't know that you should be too worried. Like someone said above, keep working it with your hard roller. I usually come back over it several times to work in the resin and work out the air as it continues to set up.

thanks fitz, I was getting worried that I was gonna have to grind it all back out. I agree with you that I should have had it smoother before I started, just didn't know how good it needed to be.

Are you using a glass roller to roll the glass out?

I am using a laminating roller. I have the two center stringers glued in and one side of each taped with 2 layers 0f 12oz biax and one layer of 1708. If taking the time to get everything smooth it is going much better. But getting time to work on the boat is hurting me, It's not worth it to start for only a couple hours, at least not to me. Of course, standing on your head working makes it hard to put in a days worth of glassing. Catch 22 lol.