Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

I have been researching building a low sheer FS-17 after completing my FL-14 but searching craigslist on my lunch break led me to buying this on the way home (turns out the guy lives on my street). I ended up getting it for $500 with the trailer which I figure is worth it alone and the boat appears to be solid. The floor is soft and stringers are gone but the transom seems solid. I drilled a hole in the transom with a 1.5" holesaw and came out completely dry. I cut a section of the deck off to see what I am dealing with and it's nothing but rotten/water logged foam and wood. At this point I'm thinking the best thing is to cut the entire deck out, put in in stringers then glass a new deck down. What I would like to do is keep this as simple and low cost as possible (seems to be a common theme). For what it's worth I plan on buying all supplies from BBC since they had the best prices on my FL and being in Florida I get everything the next day.

My questions are:

1. Estimated amount of epoxy - I was thinking 2-3 gallons
2. Wood for stringers and deck, I was thinking Marine Fir but I want to do this right so if marine plywood is best let me know which type (1088, 6566, etc).
3. I believe I can cut the old deck out completely out and rip all the old rotten mess out. From there it should follow like building a new boat, lay down stringers, tab them to hull, install deck over, glass in place. Is this correct or am I missing something?

Below are a few pictures from when I picked it up, I haven't done a ton of work on it yet since it's been raining so much lately.

Joel is out of the office today, he will reply tomorrow but . . .

- Marine fir will be fine for stringers and sole. Where in Florida are you? Shipping plywood is expensive.
- I don;t know what you will need. See this:
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13371
We need those figures, we can't estimate any BOM without them. How many stringers, how high, etc.
- You will need more than 2 or 3 gallons of epoxy but we need the figures above.
- For the techniques, see our tutorials. Don't take short cuts. What you describe seems right.

Post those figures and Joel will reply.

Thanks for the response, I'm going to get the relevant info tonight and this weekend when I rip up the deck to see what's really down there.

I live in Orlando, when I built the FL I rented a trailer and drove down to pick everything up because as you pointed out shipping is very expensive. I might be able to get marine fir locally here but I am waiting to see the quality of it. If not I will probably take a day and come down again with a trailer to get supplies.

I believe I can cut the old deck out completely out and rip all the old rotten mess out. From there it should follow like building a new boat, lay down stringers, tab them to hull, install deck over, glass in place. Is this correct or am I missing something?

Thats about right. Its not too difficult a job, especially if your going for "work boat" level of finish

3 gallons

probably, but we will know for sure one you demo the sole and stringers. I would be very surprised if the transom was not rotten also, but it possible its OK

Thank you for the responses, I did a little bit of work this weekend but got rained out and then went fishing in ML (FL14 is perfect for the NMZ at Tiger Shoals btw!). I believe once I get the stringers and rotten mess out it will be a lot more motivating but right now I'm starting to see this as a much larger project than I had thought. I ordered 3 gallons of epoxy, 5 lbs of wood flour and 50 yards of 6" 9oz tape and seeing those on my shelf in the garage is motivating me to keep going. Lots more mess left but I'm looking at this as a bunch of little jobs, not a big impossible one.

Small update, starting to get the bulk of the deck/foam out. One questions, why would the stringers be spaced/numbered like this, it doesn't seem symmetrical.

Looks like you're missing one?

in theory it doesn't necessarily have to be symmetrical, but its odd to find one that is not.

I'm not sure what's going on under the deck, I think I'm going to stick with the plan and just rip everything out and replace it. Also I was thinking about it more, what if I did a completely open deck and just a simple bench across the back and did a tiller handle? I believe I'm looking at the 40-50hp range and I've found there are tiller versions, this seems like it would be the easiest, simplest and lightest route. My goal is to have a simple but rugged skiff that can take a decent chop but can take 2-3 people fishing inshore. For flats I have the FL14 which cannot be beat in terms of where it can go, just looking for a simple boat that is light and cheap to run w/ a few friends.

Arawak wrote:Looks like you're missing one?

Agreed. In looking at your last pic there appears to be a ridge (like what would be left when a stringer was removed) where scraps of old foam came to rest after you cleaned the crud out. My guess is someone hacked that boat up once before.

I think you're right, I can see evidence that someone did some "repairs" at one point. The deck was going to need to come out anyways but that sped up the rotting process quite a bit I bet.

Made some decent progress getting the deck out, basically just needs some trimming and cleaning up, then the stringers come out after making templates. Found evidence of a prior repair where they either ran out of or never heard of fiberglass cloth and epoxied a tube sock down. To their credit it was on there pretty good but no match for an angle grinder. I feel like I've pulled 500lbs at least of disgusting water logged foam/wood. The smell is getting better too.

tube sock composite, huh. Well that's a new on to me.

Took a month off to go to New Zealand (I know, poor me) but I have made some progress since coming back. I'm at the point where I'm going to start cutting the stringers out this weekend. I was going to start with just the middle stringer, cut and replace, then do the 2 outside ones once the middle one is cured. I'm trying to avoid the hull developing a hook or rocker if possible. As far as the stringers go I was thinking of using un-treated yellow pine. The deck I am planning on using 6566 from Bateau but the stringers, since they wont be seen, I was thinking SYP would be fine. I plan on completely encapsulating the stringers as well. Any thoughts?

I was thinking of using un-treated yellow pine. The deck I am planning on using 6566 from Bateau but the stringers, since they wont be seen, I was thinking SYP would be fine. I plan on completely encapsulating the stringers as well. Any thoughts?

I would not do it that way.

Laminated plywood is much more stable, and will not draw moisture like a candle wick.

The issue that I'm having is that I won't be able to make it down to Vero to pick up marine plywood for about a month but I wanted to start getting the stringers done. I was looking at alternative methods that wouldn't be cutting corners but also is available locally. Would using Fir 2"x8"x16' be acceptable? Also would using exterior grade plywood be acceptable if it's completely encapsulated? Thanks for the help.

Also would using exterior grade plywood be acceptable if it's completely encapsulated? Thanks for the help.

that is a better alternative

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I'll do. Looking forward to visiting the shop to get the wood and other materials, seems like there's always a cool project going on.

Thought of another question, would it be best to pull the boat off the trailer and have the keel sitting on the ground and block the sides when I replace the stringers? I want to make sure that the boat doesnt have a hog or sag in it and when the stringers go in I make that permanent. Sitting on the trailer now I don't believe there is any deformation but I was wondering if putting it on the ground so the keel is level to the ground would be a way of ensuring there wasn't any unseen issues.

I just did my stringers one at a time like you are talking about doing because I was concerned about deformation like you. I left it on its 2 bunk trailer and had no problems. There are some downsides to replacing one at a time:
1. If you remove them all at once, there is only one cleanup. You will have to clean up 4 times.
2. It can get tight putting the grinder to the removed stringer bed with another stringer right beside it.
3. In some places I wished I had ground out a wider path for the tape. If you grind the whole thing out, you don't have to worry about it.

In short, leave it on the trailer if you do one at a time. Otherwise, put good support under it and do all the stringer demo at once. IMHO

Will

PS That's going to be a really nice flats skiff when you are done. Nice looking lines on the hull.

Thanks for the reply, I like your thinking with leaving the boat on the trailer. I'm going to play around with blocking the hull and making sure it's supported well to replace all the stringers at once.

I'm hoping the boat works out well, it appears to have decent lines and a nice V to it.

Shockingly the transom was rotten too so I pulled that out. Wasn't as bad as I thought, not fun, but still not too terrible. Going to do another layer of wood just in case I get a smoking deal on a 70-90hp engine.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to cover the gunnels where the foam is? There wasn't any fiberglass there originally (see below photo).



I was thinking of cutting some plywood and epoxying it over the foam and having it extend past a few inches to bond to the fiberglass portion of the gunnel. From there I was going to tab it to the 2nd layer of the transom I will be adding. I'm not explaining it right but basically this is what I'm thinking:



My biggest question would be can I put fiberglass mat over the foam (several layers) or is it better to put wood over the foam and fiberglass it in place?

What is behind the foam? how thick is the foam. I cant really see whats going on, but it looks like the foam was sandwiched between the outside hull skin and the chop matt "liner". If that is correct then you should just cover it with a layer of glass (overlap the edges). I would use a layer of 1708. Grind back the gel coat all around so your glass patch is bonding to glass.

Thanks for the reply. you're correct its gelcoat on the outside then foam then chop strand on the inside "liner". I cut plywood to cover the opening and epoxied them outside of the boat, should I scrap them and do the 1708 instead? If I hadn't already cut and epoxy them I'd do the layer of 1708 but I hate to waste the wood and epoxy if its an acceptable solution.

I would use glass, but plywood would work

Noted, thanks for the help. Looking to make a trip down there in the next few weeks for more supplies.

I just put in an order for 3 yards of 1708 and 50 yards of 12oz cloth, that should really help out with structure and cover the foam areas (not giving to mess around with the wood).

Another question: the original transom was an outer layer, 2 pieces of 1/4" ply stapled together and chop strand on the inside. all of this totaled to 1" thick. I tore that mess out and replaced it with a piece of 3/4" ply (kept the outer skin). Can I do a layer of 1708 on the inside with 12oz cloth at the seams? I will possibly have enough 1708 to do 2 layers if needed too. I was originally going to do 2 layers of 3/4" but I'm trying to keep the weight down too.

Can I do a layer of 1708 on the inside with 12oz cloth at the seams?

Yes, that is much stronger than the original inside skin of chopped mat.

I will possibly have enough 1708 to do 2 layers if needed too. I was originally going to do 2 layers of 3/4" but I'm trying to keep the weight down too.

stiffness comes from thickness, so long as your total reaches the old total it will be at least as stiff

Perfect, that's what I was thinking, nice to have confirmation. Looking forward to getting this transom done and start working on the stringers.

Dumb question, when using the 1708 the mat side goes down (towards the transom) and the woven is on the outside, right?

yes

Thanks! Also thanks for the fast shipping, ordered Friday morning and it's sitting at my front door already!

Question for you guys; I have the stringers in and am planning on doing the deck soon but ordering supplies now. Originally the boat had foam under the deck which I ripped out to get to the stringers. Should I replace that foam or can I leave it as an empty space? The boat still has the foam filled gunnels all the way around but I was wondering if I should do the foam under the deck or if I can just leave that empty (but still sealed).

I'd foam it. The foam will add some additional support for the sole, some additional rigidity to the structure, and will help to quieten the ride when you're planing across a chop.

The foam will also maintain flotation should the hull be compromised.

That's what I was thinking, I was trying to figure out how to save a few bucks on it but I agree, there's a lot of reasons to put in the foam. Plus if I sell it down the road that will probably be a question that gets asked. Thanks.

I'd foam it too, for all the reasons TRC mentioned.

Made a trip down to Vero to get the wood and supplies (nice meeting you Jacques). Ended up with 5 sheets of 3/8" Greenwood XL, 3 gallons of epoxy, 10 yards of 10oz 50" wide woven, 50 yards of 12oz 6" biaxial, wood flour, pigment and graphite powder. Worked on getting the deck traced/cut out Friday night and epoxied butt blocks and the underside of the wood. Saturday I cut it out, test fit and Sunday was the big day to glass it in. Took 4 hours from the first batch to being done and used almost all of my epoxy supply but I think it was worth it. Putty on top of the stringers and at the gunnel, then 2 layers of 12oz biax to tab the deck to the gunnel and 10oz cloth covering it. I also had some extra 1708 matt so 3 more layers of that on the transom for a total thickness of about 1.5". Boat is outside and covered now since it hasn't rained in a few weeks and of course it started raining right after this. Epoxy was set up and almost cured last night so I'm not worried. Next step is to fix a few smaller issues then start on the deck hatches and seats.

Also you'll see the 10oz cloth looks like it's not straight on the deck, it's not. Tough to get it perfectly aligned by yourself while the epoxy is curing but once it's sanded and painted it shouldn't be seen. Pictures make it look worse than in person but it's at the stage where it's going to look like crap until the final sanding/painting.

After the epoxy on the deck cured I cut drain holes in the transom and deck, it's extremely nice to have a deck that drains again! I also looked at the plugs I pulled out to make sure everything looked good and to me it looks like the transom layups were a success.



I cut the rear seats and epoxied them in place last night, ran out of epoxy last night so there's no seat top but I have a few ideas I'm kicking around anyways. I angled the front of the seats with the outside forward to help drain water better and cut a small radius in the lower portion where it joins the transom to help water drain. With my other boat the biggest lesson I learned was that no matter what water will get into everywhere so instead of fighting it make it easy to drain back out.



Next step is to cut the bow deck. The reasoning behind this is the deck I put down is 3/8" ply with 10oz woven on it but it flexes a little more than I wanted. I have a full sheet of ply that I am planning on putting on the deck but only from the front deck back to the front of the rear seats. Basically where you would normally stand on the deck. The logic behind this is 1. it makes it easier since I can use basically 1 sheet of plywood and not have to cut the whole deck out again, 2. the portions of the deck where seats/top deck are wont have people walking on them and 3. it will be lighter. Hopefully will be able to update more as the week goes on.

Working on rear seats and mocking them up w/ an outboard on to make sure my seats are in a good spot. Seems like it's going to work out pretty well.

Question: The deck is a little springy between the stringers. I used 3/8" marine ply tabbed into the hull sides with 2 layers of 12oz biax and them 10oz woven covering the deck. I was debating about adding another layer of 3/8" ply to the deck or covering the whole deck in 1708. After seeing what the 1708 dis to the transom I believe it will be strong enough to add stiffness and also encapsulate the deck. Any other ideas or suggestions?

I got the boat flipped, bottom graphite applied, primed and painted with S3 primer and Top Coat. Going to give it another day or two to cure fully then get it back on the trailer to finish the inside. Overall I'm pleased with how everything turned out. It's not going to win any awards in a show but to me it looks good and this boat is going to be used, a lot.

Is that new paint I sent you?

Yes it is, I am in the process of documenting my impressions of it, conditions applied etc. Thank you again for sending it to me.

It looks good from here.

Thanks, I appreciate the help and knowledge from this forum, can't wait to get it out in the sun (and in the water too)!

Did the final layer of glass on the deck last night. 10oz 50" wide wrapped about 3-4" up the gunnels so I had to use 2 pieces. On the spot of the deck I was most concerned with I did one layer of 12oz biax for peace of mind. The spot is where I had to join an additional piece of plywood to get the right width and it has a butt block underneath but I still feel better with a layer of 12oz biax for additional strength.

Also added the vertical piece for the front deck, I'm going to be cutting an opening in it for access but until I buy the gas tank I don't want to cut it. Added the vertical piece now so it could be tied in with the 10oz on the deck and hopefully give one large lamination that covers the interior of the boat.

My goal is to keep the boat as open as possible, I want a very simple/clean boat that is easy to clean and can be used for bass fishing local lakes, taking to a campground, hitting the lagoon and even possibly sleeping out on it if I needed. Hopefully it's as big of a 16' boat as you can possibly get.

Cut the final wood last night (hopefully) for the rear seats and front deck. Waiting on more epoxy to get everything in place then start cutting hatches and getting prepped for paint. Bunch of little things to do but hopefully the big jobs are over with.

Success!

Floated it at the local lake to see how it sat in the water and make sure there weren't any leaks. I put my 4hp on it to putt around and get a general idea of how the layout works while it's still easy to make changes. The boat did really well, compared to my FL14' it feels huge and being completely open it really adds to open feeling. With 2 people we were able to get 8mph out of it. The engine was also titled up higher than it should have been since it was set up for my other boat but it was good enough for a test run. Now I need to finish the rest of the interior, get everything registered, new tires and lights for the trailer and it's ready to hit the lagoon. I was more nervous about splashing this one than I was with the FL14, probably because I have more time and $$ into this one. Either way I'm very pleased with it and it should be a great boat for east central Florida.

Haven't updated in a while, but if anyone's interested this is the progress. The transom area needs to be sanded and painted and a few other areas need paint but it's mostly done. Should be another weekends worth of work at this point.

Very nice.
Post it on Facebook, on the "trick My Skiff" group and tell them you got the supplies from us.

I'll do that, might have to hi-jack my wife's FB for a few min. Everything on it, except for the closet dowel rod and truck bed liner for the push pole was from bateau. I've sent a few people to you guys for supplies, including my Dad who just bought the small repair kit for some keel damage on his 16' Palm Beach (came out great).