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I purchased 1989 grady white 19' tounament this past summer knowing it had a bad stringer. What i didn't know was the tank was bad as well as almost all the stringers/bulkheads. I started deconstruction a couple weeks ago. the tank and floor are out. i had to remove 1 bulkhead to get the tank out thru the access opening. i removed the other 2 forward bulkheads because the starboard side stringers were wet all the way up under the bow. i didn't pop the cap. i can crawl under the bow to acces. i will have to get a little creative to tab the farside in. i do have a small access cover. i have approximately 50' of stringer/bulkhead to tab in, completely encase. also, the front half of the floor, approximatelt 4' x 6' has a small area that needs to be relaced. i am going to remove from the bottom and glass the plywood back to the existing fiberglass sole with the diamond pattern and access opening in it. I had figured on buying (2) 50 yard rolls of the 6" biaxil tape, 10 yrds of cloth, 6 gallons of epoxy resin and at least 5# of wood flour. I was thingof using a couple of the existing outside skins for the inner stringer. i was going to grind clean and laminate a few layers to the and using thickened resin to glue the to them. then tabing the nearside. After coating all stringers/bulkheads with epoxy, i am going to wrap them with cloth. Does this sound like a good idea? how much tape,cloth,epoxy, wood flour do you think i need?
A little of the foam was saturated at the bottom. I am checking different areas to decide if i need to replace all of the foam.
I haven't drilled any holes in the transom, but it seems solid. i removed a few screws and it was dry and felt solid when i checked with a pointed scribe, although given the history of these boats the chances are good it is wet and will end up replacing that also.
Hoping to start putting it back together next weekend
I can post some pictures when i get home.

I know that boat quite well.
First, your estimate of materials is correct to start. You may need a third roll of biaxial tape, 2 may not be enough.

If I was you, I would open it more.
If I remember well, in 1989, the Grady White was a 3 part boat: hull, sole with liner and the cap with gunwale as a third part.
The sole with liner was "mudded" to parts of the stringers and floor frames.
Did you remove that sole? Pictures would help. I don't see how you would work on the stringers with the sole part in place . .
To remove it must have been a struggle.
If you didn't, get an air chisel to break the polyester mud.

Foam was injected in places under that sole, probably around the tank too. That is what killed the tank.
Show us some pictures, I am not certain that I understand how far you are in the demolition part.

the floor is up except, for the bow area. when i get home i will post pics. the tank wasn't foamed in, but all the holes are where the neoprene strips contactend the tank trapping water, also the drain tube that was supposed to drain the water from the front of the boat to the bilge was broke.

Good news about the floor being removed. I"l wait for the pictures.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... al_009.jpg[/img]

I have to replace all the stringers except the outer starboard. I removed the forward bulkhead in the tank coffin and the bulkhead at the opening to the bow and the one forward of that 13". I'm not sure about the rear bulkhead. I think it may be a little wet. If so. I may go and replace that also in case I have to replace the transom. then i'll have the transom stringers tied into a solid bulkhead. easier to do it now, although I will have to remove the 2 small floor areas under the rear seats to gain complete access. Which cloth should I get to wrap the stingers? I will use the 120z biaxil tape to tab them in.
First I plan to rebuild the area under the bow. looks like everything on the starboard side is good up there. I plan to do 1 stringer at a time, removing and replacing as I go

Thanks for the pictures, it's much easier to discuss the repair that way.
Yes, it's a 3 part boat and there is no need to remove the cap. You have good access except close to the transom.
That thick glass along the stringers is 24 oz. roving or 2415. There should be 2 layers = 80 oz. each side but in polyester.
It will peel off.
Rebuild with 12 oz. biaxial 45/45 or 1708 for a total of about 50 oz. minimum each side. That means 4 layers of tape or 2 layer of 1708. More layers are better.
I would use the tape.
At least one of those layers should cover the stringers all the way to the top. No need to wrap around the top.
Cleat along the top, sole "mudded" (glued) to the cleats.
Everything 100% coated with epoxy resin.
As discussed earlier, get minimum 3 rolls of biaxial tape 12 oz. and 6 gallons of resin to start plus 5 lbs of woodflour.

for the area of the floor where i have to replace the plywood, the blackened area around the fish box access. i may just do the bad are, not the whole piece(haven't decided yet) what kind of cloth should i cover that with? how far on to the hull should my tabs go? 4"? i know i alternate where they start and finish. 6" wide tape? how far up the stringer sould the 4 layers of tape go. is it ok to leave 1 side of the roving from the old stringers? i would grind them clean,laminate a layer or so of biaxil, then thickend resin and press the stringer into it, the tab in the other side

crabbydad wrote:for the area of the floor where i have to replace the plywood, the blackened area around the fish box access. i may just do the bad are, not the whole piece(haven't decided yet)

Does that mean leave some plywood in?

what kind of cloth should i cover that with? how far on to the hull should my tabs go? 4"? i know i alternate where they start and finish. 6" wide tape? how far up the stringer sould the 4 layers of tape go.

It is 6" tape. 3" on stringers,3" on hull, next 4" on stringer, 2" on hull, next 2" on stringer, 4 on hull etc.
Start with a 1st layer that goes all over the stringer. That will require more than one width of tape.

is it ok to leave 1 side of the roving from the old stringers? i would grind them clean,laminate a layer or so of biaxil, then thickend resin and press the stringer into it, the tab in the other side

I don't like to leave anything in. There is probably a secondary bond problem there. Polyester has major problems with secondary bonds. If the hull was skinned on a Friday and stringer sput in on Monday, you don't have a good bond.
That problem does not exist with epoxy.
That old tabbing may fail, why take a chance when you invest so much in labor and materials?

yes, leave some plywood in. i'm not sure if i'll replace the whole underside of the sole with the bad area or remove the whole bottom of the sole. i"m only referring to the half of the sole with the fish box access cover. in the front under the bow, i won't be able to fully access the farside of the outer stringer. i will only be able to tab 1 side, do think this will be ok for this small area?

I am not crazy about having a patchwork of plywood, some old, some new. The seams between old and new are going to be a weak point.

yeah. i think i'll replace the plywood on the front half-probably easier

I think I'd remove the entire sole and replace it now. From what I can tell from the pictures of the cut out sections like this one...



Those squares look more like balsa core to me than plywood. I'd get rid of all of it. I've cut the sole out of a few older Grady's and there was a lot of ugly hiding under there

after reading another post, I took a closer look at the hull. Now I feel sick to my stomach. I knew there was damage to the cap in front of the windshield on the port side. The owner said a previous owner did some damage "loading it". I assumed he meant running in to the pier. After crawling in the storage area under the bow and closely examining the hull, it looks like this boat was tied to the pier when we had a major hurricane 12 yrs or so ago. From the inside, I can see cracking in the roving and what I think is a little delamination. on the bottom of the hull there are cracks at this location. I can tell when I look closely that the gelcoat was redone in this area. It isn't cracked, but the color is just a little off, but not enough to notice at a quick glance. I'm hoping I can grind inside and go over this with biax and maybe a layer of roving. On the outside I would grind down and use biax also. there are also smaller cracks on the front of the bow.
I hope this hull is fixable. I have too much invested, I'd hate to throw the hull away. The previous owner had it several years, and ran it this way, so if I reglass from the inside and outside, I would think it would be safe, but I need to know what the experts think. I just spent almost $900 on materials to fix the floor and stringers. It will cost me another $1000 for the new fuel tank and new hoses, which I haven't ordered yet.
I really wish I would have went with my gut feeling when I looked at this boat and not have bought it. I got it for a lot less than he was asking because I knew it had at least 1 bad stringer and a soft spot in the floor

Sorry about the bad news.

I have to go to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow and will be out of the office. I will look at your pictures later and ask questions.
The good news is that the Grady-Whites are very well built and if the hull shell has not delaminated, it may be worth rebuilding her.
If there is delamination in the hull itself, you may have to abandon the project.
If the delamination is between components like stringers and bottom, it can be fixed.
The gelcoat repair is bad news but maybe it was just to cover scratches.

Tap the hull, look for hollow sounds.

some of the areas look a little lighter in the pictures, that is where there is delamination. I just went out with a hammer and its definitely delamination. Not sure if its all the way thru. no way to tell without grinding I guess. the side looks the same in this area, but is solid when I tap with a hammer. This I where the gelcoat repair is, so they must have repaired the outer shell.
hopefully I can repair this.

Here are are few larger pics so you can get a better idea where it is. Tried to shine a light in to help

I'd knock the gelcoat off the area on the other side and have a good look from the outside too. This will also allow light to shine through the laminate and make it easier to see what you have going on.

I took a screw driver and stuck it in the crack at the bottom, and it went all the way thru. on the inside in the second picture, you can see where the glass has cracked away, this is where the screwdriver came thru. lots of very small spider cracks in the side of the boat gelcoat in this area also. If I can fix this correctly, how hard is it to spray the gelcoat and get a good finish? I sanded a small area and removed the gelcoat and they don't seem to go below the gelcoat

If you can go all the way through with a screw driver, I don't think it is repairable.

the place where I put the screwdriver thru was the existing crack in the pic. I couldn't push it thru anywhere else. I will take a pic when I get home.

That sounds better . . . It is difficult to judge the state of the laminate from pictures.
I'll wait for more pictures, not too close please.

I'm not sure how much you can tell from the pics. in the first one the stringer is kinda in the way, the second is a closer pic. the third from the outside shows the screwdriver sticking out. in the fourth you can see where I sanded to see if the small stress cracks disappeared when I sanded, which they did. this is where it looks like the gelcoat has been repaired. It looks like the crack is at the end of the overlap from the bottom roving to the side. I think my next move is to start grinding to see the extent of the damage. I can feel a few "dull" spots on this side where I'm sure there is some delamination. I went over the whole boat tapping it with a hammer. You can see a pic of the crack the screwdriver is in, in a few posts back

That crack is just at the chine?

Typhoon made a good suggestion: grind the gelcoat off in the areas of doubt and shine a light through it.

You wrote:

I just went out with a hammer and its definitely delamination. Not sure if its all the way thru. no way to tell without grinding I guess.

It's going to be a serious job, sorry.

I'll grind the gel coat in the area of the crack and do some grinding on the inside to evaluate the extent of the damage. I f I decide to repair, I know gel coat doesn't adhere to epoxy that well. what should I fill in on the outside? fairing compound? I plan to do the structural repair from the inside. I will grind out all the bad, then flare away from the removed damaged area. laminate biax, using a larger piece for each layer and tab up the side. I Really hate to have to scrap this hull and take the loss.

Before we discuss the details of the repair, you must be certain that the hull is worth the investment.
I don't want you to buy supplies that you will not use.
The repair will not be complicated, we have solutions including gel coat replacement but first check your hull.

I already bought the supplies. What's the best thing to do to determine if the hull is worth fixing? I certainly don't want to fix it if its not worth it, although I was looking forward to this for my winter project

You wrote:

I just went out with a hammer and its definitely delamination. Not sure if its all the way thru. no way to tell without grinding I guess.

That is where you have to grind to see how far the delamination extend.

I ground down some of the delaminate on the inside. Once I ground back to the good area, i could peel up the fiberglass up to the side of the boat. I didn't have time to do it all, just wanted to see the extent of the damage. the first 2 pics show the inside. the 3rd pic shows the length of the area as checked by tapping with a hammer, around 5" wide(up to side of boat) x almost 8' long, as marked by blue tape in the third pic. This is the are I feel needs to be repaired here(5" wide x 8' long) . some areas near the front don't fell as bad. the 4th pic shows an area that fells bouncy when tapped with a hammer. to access this total area I might have to pop the cap and pull the liner. the 5th pic shows damage to the cap. the 6th pic shows the damage to the underside of the cap damage, accessed thru the storage compartment. the area where the cleat is un this side looks depressed(not emotionally). There is also an extension added to the side of the center window because the gap is larger than it should be, and window may not catch on the other side of the opening. It looks like this boat was tied to a pier during a bad hurricane.
So, what do you think?
If you don't think its worth fixing, I still may pop the cap and pull the liner to get a good look at everything. I'd have to cut it up to take it to the dump anyway.

I would pull the cap and take a real good look before doing anything else.

First picture, with the yellow screw driver.
That can't be the hull. Is it some kind of box inside along the chine?
if the delamination is limited to port side, along the chine, then it is repairable but I can't guarantee that there is no delamination anywhere else.
Your theory about the cause of the damage makes sense and it that case, it may be limited to one side. It's your call.

For that kind of job, I would remove the cap.
Is it not possible to save it? Cut the screws or rivets from outside, and melt the putty with a heat gun?
Or, if fiberglassed, cut the tabbing?
I agree with Topwater that you should remove the cap.
That cost you labor but no material and you will have a much better feel for the condition of the hull.

first picture is inside the hull, maybe your seeing the stringer, no box there.
the delamination is near the chine, at the edge of the side of the boat, just before the vertical side
I think all the damage is port side. I have been over the hull with a hammer and don't hear anything starboard.
I removed the cap from a 17' grady white open bow about 15 years ago when I rebuilt the transom. I just moved it forward enough to access the transom. the cap was riveted on and I think only silicone in the seam to seal out water because I know I had to caulk it to keep the water from coming in when I hit large waves.
I started to remove the rub rail back at the transom a few weeks ago, looks like it just may be screws. I'm not sure if there is adhesive between them or not. Since I'm going to pull the cap, will there be a problem with fixing the delamination with the cap off and the sides distorting causing problems getting the cap back on? I will have to remove the rest of the liner also. Hopefully its not too flimsy with most of the floor out. I think the liner may be just attached with adhesive.
I have 12oz biax tape and cloth. Is this what I should use for this repair? Should I cover that with roving like I will grinding out?
What is the proper procedure for this repair?
thanks

Before we decide on the type of glass, number of layers etc., you should grind all the delaminated glass out.
Those chines were heavy, made from overlapping layers from the bottom and the side plus, sometimes tabbing.

Some explanations:
This is an area, where in the middle of the boat, you run in quality problems.
(I worked as engineer and manager in FG boat building).
Measure the bottom across the widest part of the boat and you will see that it is close to 50". The designer specifies an overlap but with 50" wide fabric, this is either tight or not possible.
I have seen laminators drop the glass too far away over the keel, with a good overlap at the keel but not enough of the 50" wide fabric left to reach over the chine or then barely. In that case, they must add a layer of tape but if the supervisor isn't looking, they may skip that step. The chine becomes weak and I have seen warranty problems right there.
That chine must be looked at as framing member like a chine log in old wooden boats. It must be thick with overlapped layers.

If that is the case with your boat, with the boat banging in a piling, it will split at the chine.
All to say that we will have to work on that chine. Over the healthy glass, we will have to rebuild a strong chine.
Once we see the pictures after grinding, we can estimate the thickness to rebuild and from there, I can give you a number of layers.
I already know what to expect, we will look for about 1/2" total thickness.
We will probably switch to 1708 and use the 12 oz. you have later on the stringers and transom.
You will need a lot of resin and glass but you can save the hull.

To repair, the technique is always the same.
Grind with a taper, in this case probably 8" of taper all around the damaged area then fill with fiberglass pieces progressively larger, each piece overlapping the previous one by at least 1".
I may find a picture of that and post.

Don't worry about cosmetics, we can solve that.

Right now, you must be certain that you have detected all the bad areas and grind the bad fiberglass off.

I would want to be absolutely certain that there is no delamination in the bottom, that is very important.
If the bottom is delaminated, the boat is to throw away.
If only the chine broke, you can save her.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining where the delamination is correctly. looking up from the bottom, it is at the edge of the bottom, just before the vertical sides. The delamination is at the outermost part of the bottom. I will have to take a good picture to show exactly what I mean. looking at the side of the boat from the outside. the delamination is just below the side on the bottom. I would be tabbing the side to the bottom. Not sure if this makes sense.

I drew lines where the delamination is. Is the corner considered a chine? I assume I will tab up the side of the boat and up the side of the stringer. I think it will be easier to grind it all out once the cap and liner are removed. I can't fit my grinder all the way under the remaining portion of the sole. the stringer closest to the delamination is going to be replaced , so I guess that needs to be done first? Or am I removing both on that side to cover all the way to the keel with 1708 before replacing the stringers?

I started working on removing the cap. I removed the rub rail and found that up in the bow area where there was damage. looks like the lip to the cap was rebuilt using fairing compound and faired right to the hull. a few pieces broke off with a little persuasion. any idea how heavy this cap is? I was figuring on building a frame out of 2 x 4's and lifting it off with my engine hoist. Once I get it all apart, I can fully evaluate it. looks like it will be a PITA to rebuild the front with fiberglass and make it look right. This hull is getting closer to the dump with every thing I remove.

crabbydad wrote:This hull is getting closer to the dump

I've got an old Grady as well that's headed down the same path and mine isn't nearly as banged up as yours. I just lost the motivation to work on it and would rather sink money into something I can use right away.

Good luck in whatever you decided.

I would scrap it, if it were mine. Not what you want to hear I know

Thanks for the pictures.
I finally understand where the problem is and it looks more extensive than what I thought.
The damage at bow that you just discovered makes me think that this boat has been seriously damaged and has been repaired by somebody who wanted to hide the problems. You may discover more.
Like you, I wanted to believe that there was some hope but I can't honestly recommend to rebuild that boat.
As you wrote:

This hull is getting closer to the dump with every thing I remove.

Sorry.

As much as I want to rebuild this boat, I really think it is a waste of time. If I'm going to rebuild a boat and spend that much time, I want it to look great. I don't think I could rebuild the bow and make it look good. It looks like the fairing is really thick on the hull under the connection the cap. when I first looked at this boat, my gut feeling was to pass, but I'm looking for this exact make and model and tired of looking. If I have the time. I enjoy tearing apart and doing fiberglass work. Its the cosmetic part I don't like as far as fiberglass goes.
I'm gonna take the cap off and remove the liner just for the heck of it and future reference. I'll strip everything usable and save or sell. I bought the boat for$2800. I can probably get $1500 or so for the 150 Johnson and the trailer. I also have $900 in materials I bought before discovering the additional damage. I feel ripped off. I think i'll send the previous owner an email describing the damage with pictures and see if I can get a little bit of money back. Maybe i'll come across another project to use this material or just sell it.
I'll post some pics when I take it apart

I agree. The seller probably knew the extent of the damage.
Try to get as much back as possible from the trailer, engine and rigging.
If you are set on that model, salvage parts like windshield, cleats, rod holders, railing, doors etc.
There are many of those boats out there, you may find a good one.
Grady-White are well built boats but no boat can survive banging against a piling during a hurricane.

That's a tough one. I've been watching and hoping this was going to work for you.
Check this out
http://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/5288918848.html

Thanks
I"m hoping to find a boat like that close by. I passed on one last year that needed a transom. In light of the experience with this boat, I wish I would have looked a it. I could have gotten the hull for free, but he wanted a $1000 for it on the trailer with a blown Mercury on it. I was looking forward to this for my winter project. I have all the material ready to go. There's a slim chance I may change my mind once I get the cap off and liner out. The bow and hull are bonded into 1 pc. where they made the repair port side. Its chipping apart. Its areal mess, I doubt I could make it look right again. I'll take pics as I go.
I'm glad I didn't order the fuel tank, I almost did. That would have been another $1000 for the tank and all new fuel lines

Walkers Run wrote:That's a tough one. I've been watching and hoping this was going to work for you.
Check this out
http://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/5288918848.html

That is a very good deal if it needs nothing else than the transom.
It's exactly what I paid for our Aquasport rebuilt but without engine.

depending on how the hull looks when I get the cap off, I've been contemplating possible fixing the hull. Is it possible to fix the delamination and be structurally sound? I have all this material, I'm not anticipating buying a boat that I will need it for.
here is a pic of the cap damage

It's possible but it will cost you much more in materials than what you have.
You will have to grind all the doubtful fiberglass off and replace it with layers and layers of glass with wide overlaps, much wider than for a simple repair.
There may be more damage in other places . . . that is why I don't recommend it but it is feasible.

Walk away. Enjoy Thanksgiving. A better hull will come along.

I just hate to give up on it and lose money on this boat, but i know you guys are right. I'm still gonna take it apart just for future reference in case i have to do it again. Hopefully i can find another. I should have listened to my wife and saved until i could get a newer one in better shape. I have another boat so it isn't like i couldn't get out on the water. I guess once i finish tearing this hull apart and hauling it away, i'll bring my sportcraft into the garage and do a few things to it.

I feel your pain, 'cause I'm the same way. That's why I have so much junk

It's difficult to cut your losses by just discarding it and walking away, or trying to salvage anything that might be worthwhile. It is much more satisfying to completely destroy it, venting frustrations on it, before discarding. It also makes it easier to haul away when there is nothing left to salvage


This last sentence reminds me of an incident after Hurricane Emily (1993). As hurricanes go, Emily was a lightweight, but she caused major sound-side flooding in Dare County, on the outer banks of North Carolina. Among others things, the Dare County High School; the furniture, student desks, bleachers, new John Deere lawnmower/tractor, etc; was flooded.

During clean-up operations, the Deere had its' carb and fuel tank flushed and refilled. The oil was changed, and it was used to drag items to the loader for disposal. Afterwards, it was loaded onto a truck heading to the landfill. When the driver, a neighbor, realized that the Deere was being discarded, he was almost crying; begging the officials to let him keep it

'Fraid not. It was discarded along with everything else

CrabbyDad,
If you do end up trashing the hull and need to cut it up before hauling it away I have found a 7 1/4 worm drive saw with a carbide blade will make short work of a hull. I would hate to see that happen but if it does you might as well make it easy on yourself.
Fuzz

Cut the old hull off near the chines, turn it upside own, six vertical posts and you have a carport.

Beware your carport might leak a little!

Sorry Crabbydad...... I couldn't help myself.

In all seriousness though....
Recently I acquired a 22 ft hull that only needed some cosmetic work (or so I thought). As I began working on her I continually smelled gas but couldn't find the source. Eventually I found that gas had leaked out of one of the tanks and was trapped in a compartment between the bottom of the fish box and the hull. No biggie right.... I can fix anything. One day I go to jack her up off the trailer and the keel starts caving in right under the fish box. Your keel should not do this! The gas sat in there so long it broke down the structural integrity of the glass and resin.
Thought about it for a couple of days and then stripped the boat and off to the landfill she went.
Sometimes you just gotta say NO!

I hate that conclusion but Grinder is correct.

Yeah, I know. I sold the canvas and the seats and I have a deposit on the motor. So, hopefully i'll be done with it in a couple weeks. It will take a few trips to take it to the dump.

crabbydad wrote:It will take a few trips to take it to the dump.

Not necessarily. Go talk to them first. I took an old 19' Thunderbird to the landfill down here in Calvert Co. w/out having to cut it up at all. Backed in, pushed it off the trailer, paid my fee and drove out.

I can take it whole, but I will have to pay. if I cut it up, its free. this boat has cost me enough already. I may consider taking it whole, but they would have to pull it off the bunk trailer.

Interesting. The dump down here charges by weight.

I could dump mine for free...but I would have to cut it into small enough pieces to get it in garbage cans and then dump it in the household trash bins. No thanks!

Well, I got rid of everything except the swim platform, fishfinder, vhf and removable fishbox. I sold the boat and trailer to a retired guy who wanted to fix it and use it for a crabbing boat and the motor and a few things to another guy. I paid $2800 for the boat plus another $150 or so for parts for the trailer. I got $2200 for what I sold. I lost money, but not too bad.

I lost money, but not too bad.

You actually saved money in the long run, and time and aggravation And gained some experience too.