Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:11 pm**

Hi, Just started cutting out the stringers today(small child I can only work when she is having a nap,got 1 1/2marked & cut).I'll put up some photo's when i'm a bit further along.
cheers,
steve

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:56 pm**

Good luck with the build Steve. I'm starting this boat as well, under very similair circumstances...two little ones. Look forward to comparing notes.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 am**

Hi lower thanks for the reply,how are you doing?
cut frame A & finished cutting the stringers.
Missed the deliveryof the epoxy I ordered yesterday,hopefully it will be delivered today,so I can start sticking stuff together, then I will feel like I am making progress.Anybody got tips that they want to share?
cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:59 am**

steve292 wrote:Anybody got tips that they want to share?
cheers,
Steve

Hi Steve - have you read the tutorials? I'm guessing that your stringers are two pieces of ply thick, so you want to make sure that your glue mix is right (ketchup), and also that you have a flat place for them to rest while curing.

Don't go cheap on clamps - ensure that they are well clamped for the whole length, but not over-tight squeezing all the glue out.

Same for when you do the transom.

Stringers and transom are likely the first bits to be glued, and you want to make them strong.

Good luck with it, enjoy, and don't rush. Post pics.

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:15 am**

Thanks for the reply wobbly,
I have read the how-to's but it is always nice to pick other peoples brains as it were. I've been lurking for a while & reading builders threads as well(you've got a bueatifull boat B.T.W & you should be proud of what you have acheived),good informative thread as well, I hope I can do something as good. I will post pictures as soon as I can.
Cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:43 am**

Steve...I just got the ball rolling over the weekend. Cut frame C and D out of scrap plywood. Plan to do the bow mold tonight. Just getting the hang of things before the "good wood" shows up. Like you I've read everything on the site there is to read. Now it's just time to jump in and start. Once I get the wood, etc, I'll start a build thread as well.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:44 pm**

I'll try a pic

It worked!!!

this is frame A cut out -more pics later

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:41 am**

Hey Steve...I think that's the first official picture of a FS17 on the site! Congrats!

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:14 pm**

Welcome to the group!

Any double or triple layer ply laminations can be easily held in place while laminating them, by using dowels, or wood screws that get removed and the holes filled later. You want to use something though, else those panels will slide all around on the goo. Use wood flour for plywood laminations, and not the fairing blend with the microballoons in it. I think you'll have all this info in your plans and instructions, or you've seen it in the how to's. I remember when I first laminated my transom and showed it to people. They thought it would be a tiny boat when looking at that transom, but it grew more than they imagined when all the panels came together and took shape! Enjoy planning and building and launching. If you post to a thread to document the build, they'll be quite a few of us watching the build as it progresses. I really like the open cockpit option of that design with all its wide open room. Enjoy!

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:04 pm**

That pic is a bit small...anyone got any advice about getting nice big pagefillers in..a la KS8, Wobblylegs, Cracker larry & co

The boat is going to be the raised freeboard version with a small casting deck,175 mm wide gunnells & a centre console. I am thinking of putting the fuel tank in the bottom of the console with the batteries in the bottom of a small flip -flop type seat .

But one thing at a time, get the hull built first ready to flip.
BTW the raised freeboard has nothing to do with any perception of sea keeping ability, just the fact that I have a two year old & it will be safer for her.
Steve

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:47 pm**

Sure, you linked to the thumbnail instead of the other photo.
Click on the thumbnail in the gallery to open the page and link to that picture instead.

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:23 pm**

[quote="jeremy"]Sure, you linked to the thumbnail instead of the other photo.
Click on the thumbnail in the gallery to open the page and link to that picture instead.

thanks! such a simple thing to do when you know how.
Steve

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:32 pm**

anyone got any advice about getting nice big pagefillers in..a la KS8, Wobblylegs, Cracker larry

I usually resize all my pictures to 800 X 600 and try to keep the file size in the 200KB range. These fill the page without being too large for it.

Good luck with the build. The best advice I can give is, if you don't know something, ask, and don't proceed until you know

Posted: **Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:02 pm**

good lucK with the build!! i am very excited to see your build

I am building the same boat, with the raised freeboard ,center cockpit, and intended to build a full height bench against the motor well for bait and coolers. I have also tossed around the idea of having a casting deck out to the b station.or at least midway between a and b. I like the raised freeboard for the ability to lean my thighs against the gunwale when fishing for tuna. but want the casting deck for bass fishing. trying to make this an all around boat for myself and my kids. wish i could afford two boats!!!!

Posted: **Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm**

[quote I like the raised freeboard for the ability to lean my thighs against the gunwale when fishing for tuna. quote]

I don't think i'll be doing much tuna fishing in the Bristol channel, but I can dream. I to aim to have the casting deck out to station B, as I enjoy fly fishing & spinning for our european bass.There seems to be a lot of interest in these boats,so I feel the pressure from my peers already,& not a panel spliced yet.
PROGRESS.
frames A,B,E cut, both motorwell sides cut out,frames C & D marked out. Transom marked out,stringers cut.
I am doing it in stages mainly because I have limited storage for the ply, I cant store it flat so I am only buying 6 or so sheets at a time, I am tying to get all the frames,both stingers & the transom ready(laminated) before I aquire more materials.
will post pics on Monday(family gathering tomorrow).
Cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:57 pm**

Big evening for me,got the first stringer laminated.I thought having 30 odd clamps was enough, but I think i'm wrong by about a factor of three.
I have some pic's which I will post tomorrow when I have some more time.I used the dowel method to keep the stringer pieces in alingnment during glueing.It has also been a usefull excercise in mixing glue to get a good consistency.Had a small amount left at the end ,so I thickened it a bit more & filleted some scrap together out of interest, just to see if I have got the idea in my head properly.
Regards,
Steve

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:37 pm**

Today I finally got both stringers assembled & dressed.
I used the dowels to hold the pieces in perfect alignment during the epoxy glue cure-

I underestimated how many clamps I'd need so I went & got another half dozen before I embarked on the second stringer-

After the glue had set up overnight I used a surform to remove the epoxy that had oozed out of the joint,while it was still green. They now look like stringers & have stiffened up considerably.

I now feel up to the my next little milestone, which is assembling & glueing the transom clamping boards. I will post more pics as I go on
regards,
steve
P.S the thinking chair tip I got from the Dougster

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:51 pm**

Its going to be fune to watch this thing go together..

I got a feeling that work space is going to fill up quick..

keep the pics coming..

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:43 pm**

Steve, you do not need that many clamps

One of the only mistakes you can make with epoxy is squeezing too hard. The more epoxy left in the joint the better

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:20 am**

You killin me Steve. I am dying to get working on the boat, but life keeps interfering. Heading up to Maine for a few days. When I get back, I gotta get busting.

Thanks for posting pics. Fun to watch the build. Also helps others (like myself) when we get to that point. Sorry you don't have anyone to follow, but someone has to lead the show!

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:19 pm**

Progress-
Today I got the transom clamping boards routed to there final sizes & the first layer glued to the full transom. I should add here that the clamping board is made from 2 layers of 18mm ply as I already had a sheet in the shop. I did ask JM first if it was o.k. As I am raising the freeboard the 2 inserts have used a whole sheet of ply.
Some pictures for your viewing,all comments welcome.

This is the 2 roughed out inserts clamped & doweled to the full transom,I then used a router with a trimming cutter, which has a bearing to allow it to run on a template to trim the insert using the full transom as the template.

Just to show the transom & clamping board assembly after finish machining.
Finally the first 2 pieces of the transom glued & clamped

I didn't use as many clamps this time!(thanks for the advice Shine)
The dowels I find simplify alingnment of components greatly(thanks KS8)
cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:13 pm**

Steve,

Looking really good so far!

It looks like you have a nice workshop there, makes for easier building than in a tent in the garden!

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: **Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:43 am**

Nice pics.. thanks for taking the time to post them..

Posted: **Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:38 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Steve,

Looking really good so far!

It looks like you have a nice workshop there, makes for easier building than in a tent in the garden!

Regards,

Tim.

Thanks Tim. I thought about your build in your tent the other day when I was in the garage routing away with the rain hammering down outside.It can't be easy being weather dependent. The transom is fully assembled & is curing as I type.
Next step is to order some 6mm okume from robbins for the hull panels,clear the garage & think about the best way to mount them to mark & cut out. I am leaning towards the type of frames that Cracker Larry used to cut out his OD18 panels. My main problem is the garage is'nt wide enough to allow me to construct the building jig & lay out the panels at the same time, or store the sheets of ply flat & work which is going to slow me down shortly so I am buying stuff on a JIT basis. I must say that I am finding it fun so far

.The comments from the other forum members I find motivates me to try harder to make a decent fist of it as well.

Posted: **Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:52 pm**

Transom looks great Steve! Hope to have mine done soon. I think I'll use a router to trim up my transom pieces also, great idea.
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:42 pm**

steve292 wrote:The comments from the other forum members I find motivates me to try harder to make a decent fist of it as well.

In the voice of the "Churchill" advert: 'O-o-o-o-h yes!'

Apologies to the 'mericans if you don't get this....

Posted: **Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:59 pm**

Steve, Hows the boat coming? Just wondering how it was going. I started cutting out the lower hull panels this afternoon, still have some to cut out before I can start splicing. Hope its going well.
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:55 pm**

Daniel,
Work has got in the way this week.I work shift,all 12hr days & nights so when I work the boatbuilding stops, I'm afraid. This is when I try to mow the lawn, weed the borders & do all the little jobs around the place.
This is my last night tonight & then I'm off for a while so more progress next week I hope. I had the 6mm ply delivered on wednesday,& hope to be building a frame to lay out on fri/saturday. I have also cleared the garage to give a uncluttered workspace.

Taking an enforced break has the advantage however that you can stand back & think about the next step. Currently I am thinking about the strongback & try to source some reasonably straight timber at a reasonable price(not as easy as it sounds in the U.K.).

I Hope you are making good progress as well.I would like to think we will hear from some other FS17 builders soon, I can't think we are the only ones starting building,as it seemed a very popular design.
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:18 pm**

You'll be amazed how strong and solid that transom is when it is tabbed on the hull and glassed and ready to hang an engine on it. The whole thing gets stronger and stronger as the entire hull comes together. Enjoy watching it come to life!

Keep those pictures coming!

Posted: **Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:02 pm**

Things are looking good Steve. Daniel...you look like you are making headway as well. I'm trying to squeeze some in whenever I can. I just got back from a trip midweek and am leaving with the family up to maine agian this weekend. I did manage to draw up "B", "E" and my stringers last night though. This should be my last trip for a bit. Then I gotta get going. It's fun to watch your progress, but I'm getting jeleous.

I'll start a build thread as soon as I start cuttin stuff! Good luck the next few days and I'll pop back in when I return.

Posted: **Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:50 am**

Steve, I feel your pain on the 12hr swing shift. Just got off night shift this a.m. start back on days monday, I'm lucky though my wife loves to mow the yard, I guess any time she gets a break from the kids she's happy. Well, good luck this weekend.
Daniel

Posted: **Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:00 pm**

Hi,
Since I last posted I have taken delivery of 10 sheets of 6mm okume plywood from Robbins timber in Bristol. For the frames I used far eastern bs1088,but this stuff is worlds apart.The hull skin will be made from this & the side decks for the gunwales. The sole will be 10mm robbins elite as well,with the console a mixture of the far eastern stuff & robbins elite.

I have cut out the side & bottom panels of the hull & tonight I started to tape the panel sections together.Room is a bit tight,as you may be able to see from the photo's, so some planning is required so I don't paste myself in a corner.

I went & got a fabric cutter from our local haberdashery which is making short work of cutting the biax tape.(thanks wobbly!)
I would welcome any comments on the picture of the tape lamination below.I think it is o.k,with no bubbles in it but it is the first one i've done
so ANY constructive comment is appreciated.

I am also using any leftover resin to coat the frames, so far between the gluing & taping I have coated all of A, both motorwell sides & half of E
as you can also see in the pics.
cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:11 pm**

Looks great Steve. Making great progress.

? for you...what's the width of the motor well cut on the transom. Can't seem to find that measurement. Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:49 am**

Lower,
The motorwell is 32" wide.(812mm)
I have just been out to check the fg tape I put on last night, & all seems o.k,so I am well pleased.
Steve

Posted: **Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:52 pm**

Just a quickie-
I have finished cutting out all the side panels, the last fg splices are curing as I write. The wood for the jig is coming friday, so hopefully i'll have some more to show then, with pictures I promise.
Steve

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:51 pm**

Progress

I have finished assembling all the hull panels & have used the side panels to mark & cut the bulwark extensions as described in the building notes.

Here they are with the splices curing-

I have also built the jig, BUT incredible as it might seem a fortnight of rummaging through every timber yard for a raduis of ten miles did'nt yeild two straight,unwarped 2x8 beams. So I have selected two of the least bent ones. These are straight lengthways but have a slight
upwards cast to them,so I am going to lift the frames slightly on the jig to allow me to adjust them up or down using a water level. To this end I have mounted frame A about 40mm high & levelled it. This I will use as the datum for all the other frames.
You may be able to see the deck line above the jig crossmember in this pic-

to centre the frames I have marked the centre of the jig using a stringline.
A couple of views of the jig-

The chair was my third hand with some scrap ply packers, as I am single handed. I'd be lost without speed clamps.

Regards,
steve

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:29 am**

That chair also gives the rest of us a good reference for scale. Her bow looks big! Nice work and keep the pics coming.

Huck

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:23 pm**

Doing a great job Steve! I think you'll be one step ahead of me the entire build. Keep posting pics. I love checking them out.

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:52 pm**

Thanks guys,
Today I have mounted B & C frames & levelled them. I am thinking about the transom now as the building notes describe setting it of the width of the jig,& using the motorwell sides to set the height. As I have a wonky jig I will have to think of a way to do something similar, but up in the air.
That may make interesting reading, when I get there!
cheers,
Steve
P.S
The beams that looked straight when I bought them are'nt "!"Â£$**% straight either. Â£60 for wood thats not true..........at least dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask when he did highway robbery.

Posted: **Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:41 pm**

Your making progress Steve and looks great so far, can't wait to see more!
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:13 pm**

Slow progress this week,due to the rugby world cup, but some never the less,
I have mounted the frames on the jig & also the transom.

I am going to have to re-cut frame D due to what is best described as a momentary loss of brain function in that I marked it with a measurement that is not on any of the drawings, anywhere. I was always taught to think thrice , measure twice & cut once.One day I will take that advice & save myself time in the process. Nevermind.I can use the ply later on something else. I am gong to recut the frame from OSB later today.
I made some screwed adjusting brackets for the transom mounting as it was to big & heavy to hold & adjust on my own.
here are some pics-
overall view of transom

& one of the adjusting gizmo-

& last another view of the molds on the strongback

You might be able to see that the stringer is proud of frame D. the measurement I got wrong was the baseline to chine. Should have been 89, marked & cut at 59. 59 appears nowhere on the frames drawing,so what I was thinking I don't know.
Steve

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:04 pm**

If that's the worst mistake you make, you will be superfine!

Looks great. Build on!

Huck

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:06 pm**

Wow

Seeing the frames all cut out makes me relize that boat is a lot bigger than I was thinking when the plans were released...

Looks Nice...

Jerry

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:35 pm**

Looking good man. Your pulling ahead of me! I've made zero progress. Left suddenly last week to attend a funeral. Just returned today. Can't wait to get going again.

Jerry...just an FYI...he is building the raised sheer version. Makes those pieces look bigger than the standard build.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:54 pm**

Lower wrote:
Jerry...just an FYI...he is building the raised sheer version. Makes those pieces look bigger than the standard build.

It will be interesting to see a standard boat on it's jig to see just how bigger 8 extra inches of side panel makes it appear. I will agree with Jerry tho, it looks bigger than I envisioned.

Lower, you can only go as fast as life lets you............I am so keen to get on that I am trying to find time where none exists,thats how the stupid small mistakes are creeping in. Rushing.

Posted: **Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:57 pm**

Steve, great progress, good to see the jig up, keep pluggin along!
Daniel

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:21 am**

some photo's in the album "steves FS17" update later tonight,time permitting.
Steve.

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:59 pm**

since last time I updated this thread I have recut frame "c" from OSB (horrible stuff to work with btw) & mounted it on the jig.
I had two evenings last week where I had a couple of hours at a time to work & here is the result

As you can see both bottom panels are on & stitched, this went easy with hardly any stiches pulled tight on the straight part of the keel.The keel & planing surfaces seem really good with no hook or rocker that I can see or measure with the 1800mm staight edge I have. I realise this may change as the sides are hung.
It is also sitting nicely on the frames & stringers. The bow I did have to open up the gap between the panels with a jigsaw as the stitching pulled it into shape.
this is the view along the keel from the transom-

& one down the centre from the front-

finally, the tip of the bow panel came out right on the money at the bow mold,which I was dead chuffed about

I will post a pic later of that, with a hopefully fully assembled stitched hull.
I can tell you it looks a lot bigger than I thought,a bit daunting thinking about sanding

I realise I might be a trifle ahead of myself here, but am now looking for suggestions on the best way to tape the hull, i.e do the transom then the keel,then chines or?????. which way produces the neatest overlaps?. I don't think I will be able to fillet & tape in one session, my plan is this;

-fillet all the seams in one session & let cure
-radius all the edges & sand,precut all the tapes at my leisure
-coat seams with epoxy & tape all in one go

-unless someone has a better one

any suggestions/tips would be appreciated please.

Steve

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:29 pm**

Awesome Steve! That's what I've been waiting for. Hull looks nice...and like you say BIG! I'm slowly moving along as well. Just finished cutting everything out and put my epoxy order in. Time to start glueing things together. Thanks again for posting the pics. I'm enjoying watching it come together.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:53 pm**

Looking great Steve! hope mine comes together that good.
Daniel

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:21 pm**

Steve, it's looking really good!!

steve292 wrote: -fillet all the seams in one session & let cure
-radius all the edges & sand,precut all the tapes at my leisure
-coat seams with epoxy & tape all in one go

Yup, that about sums it up... That's how I did it. Think about the order you want to tape it... I did the keel-to-bow first (furthest to reach), then the chine tape overlapped the bow tape at the front, both sides, then the transom tape overlapped both the keel tape and the chine tape.

Don't mix too much fillet at a time, squeeze it through the gaps from outside until you see it coming out the other side, a little bulge inside, no more.

Later, when you flip, get yourself a Dremel (if you don't have one) and use a grinding cylinder to take out that bulge. It's my second most used tool.

You can guess which gets used most...

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:48 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Steve, it's looking really good!!
Yup, that about sums it up... That's how I did it. Think about the order you want to tape it... I did the keel-to-bow first (furthest to reach), then the chine tape overlapped the bow tape at the front, both sides, then the transom tape overlapped both the keel tape and the chine tape.

Don't mix too much fillet at a time, squeeze it through the gaps from outside until you see it coming out the other side, a little bulge inside, no more.

Later, when you flip, get yourself a Dremel (if you don't have one) and use a grinding cylinder to take out that bulge. It's my second most used tool.

You can guess which gets used most...

Regards,

Tim.

Let me guess

................ I know a tape measure!!!!!!

Thanks for the input....good practical advice about doing the keel line first, I had'nt thought of that

& thanks for the nice comments guys. It helps keep up the enthusiasm levels!!
The dremel's just shot to the top in my letter to santa..........................

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:09 am**

steve292 wrote: Let me guess ................ I know a tape measure!!!!!!

Nope. One day I'll post a pic of all my worn out sanding discs........

Weather's supposed to be a bit warmer this weekend - enjoy it!

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:49 am**

great to see your progress, I should be cutting ply myself but between the car and the washing machine my boat budget got smashed, but I'm lucky my wife lets me keep the overtime Ive been getting so soon will be getting things cut.
It has been a fantastic help with the forum and I feel I'm going into the project with 2nd boat experience and have gained much trial and error without the time and expence.
keep the posts coming

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:33 am**

I know that feeling,I was going to have a pop at a panga, but something similar happenned to me, then the FS17 plans came out,which is a better boat for me.

, lucky, hey?
Mind you I still have the PG22 plans.....................

Beware the BBV....

Steve

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:25 pm**

This weeks update;
Goes like this-

stitch, , measure for bottom straightness,curse.

unstitch

stitch,measure for straightness,ect

unstitch

& so on

But we got there in the end.The boat is now fully stitched & tonight I have put some small epoxy fillets down the chines. The bow I have shaped with a surform to blend in the transits between the panels & filled with epoxy putty. I will take some photo's tomorrow when the bow is set & post them later.I had limited time tonight so, Build or take pics ?.easy answer
some pics, as always all comments taken on board,
A view down the bow,

And another one from a slighty lower angle,

& two of the stringers touching nicely inside the hull, one between frame A & B, & one between C & D.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:43 pm**

Looking great Steve keep up the good work and you'll have her glassed and ready to turn in no time.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:57 pm**

Steve,

That looks like a boat!

It takes time, but I found the stitch-unstitch-restitch-etc. process quite fun...

'cos when it all finally fits, it's wow!

Keep building,

Tim.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:06 pm**

That looks fantastic Steve. I can't wait to see her hit the water.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:40 pm**

Looking great Steve, keep posting, it keeps me going
daniel

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:40 am**

Wow, seeing the boat take shape is amazing! Great progress. I am waiting on wood for the same boat.... I'm enjoyin' the pics for obvious reasons. Keep them coming.
Jeremy Groves

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:14 am**

Nice to see eveything stitched together.. I am sure the pics dont do the work justise... Looks like beautiful wood.

Posted: **Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:26 pm**

mecreature wrote:Nice to see eveything stitched together.. I am sure the pics dont do the work justise... Looks like beautiful wood.

Nice spot.................the bow on photo's were lifted with photoshop as they came out very dark & I did'nt have time for any more

The wood is LLoyds certified okume 6mm for the hull panels,& you are right,it is beautiful wood,both to look at & work with.nice stable plys,bends uniformly,cuts & shapesgreat ,Well worth the money IMHO.

Posted: **Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:28 pm**

Awesome Steve! Definitly inspiring. Been away on business...getting back at it agian. Epoxy came in while I was away

! I was marking up the stringer notches on my molds and when I was almost finished I noticed in the building notes it says to make them 1/4" bigger (5mm). I'm not questioning Jacques...just wondered if you made them bigger and if it helped when putting it all together??

I know I'll have more questions for you as I begin to put this thing together. Thanks again for the pics. Love to see them.

Posted: **Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:49 pm**

Lower wrote:Awesome Steve! Definitly inspiring. Been away on business...getting back at it agian. Epoxy came in while I was away ! I was marking up the stringer notches on my molds and when I was almost finished I noticed in the building notes it says to make them 1/4" bigger (5mm). I'm not questioning Jacques...just wondered if you made them bigger and if it helped when putting it all together??

I know I'll have more questions for you as I begin to put this thing together. Thanks again for the pics. Love to see them.

I cut the notches on the lines with the jigsaw,instead of inside them which gave me about 4mm total clearance.I wanted the clearance to be fairly small to help alignment of the parts.But it is better I think if you have some float instead of to tight a fit as this allows easy adjustments without pulling everything about.I read Lucky Louis's posts on setting up the jig (i'm not proud & will pinch a good idea from anyone)Which has some great tips on keeping it all together, & would recommend that as reading(its called lucky louis's OB17).Cracker larry, Wobblylegs,& Deedaddy's threads are well worth a visit as well while we are on the subject.
I was wondering why you had'nt posted.I have glued up the transom today & tabbed the chines with some small fillets,started to shape the bow & fill some of the holes. Pic's to follow.
hope

Posted: **Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:10 pm**

Thanks again Steve. I hope you don't mind me running these questions by you! As for the threads you've mentioned...I've definitly looked them over. When it's time to put the jig together I'll revisit them.

Your making great progress. I hope mine comes together half as clean as yours! Keep up the good work.

Posted: **Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:50 pm**

Stringer notches need to be a bit large to make sure there are no hard contact points. When you put it all together, you should have a layer of thickened epoxy in that gap. 1/8" is ideal, so Â¼" extra will give you the right amount on each side, in theory.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:10 am**

Hey Steve,

Can you please hurry up and finish that boat so I can decide if I am going to build one or not?

Just kidding.. Build on! looking good.

/another Steve

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:05 am**

spjoyce wrote:Hey Steve,

Can you please hurry up and finish that boat so I can decide if I am going to build one or not?

Just kidding.. Build on! looking good.

/another Steve

Ha! you could be in for a long wait!
An FS17 would be ideal for the more sheltered Fjords where you are.

Posted: **Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:05 am**

Looking good Steve! I am another of the many who has contemplated this boat. I bought the Garvey 13 plans, but have to construct a shop for the build first. I'm trying to talk myself into making a bigger shop, enabling a build of the FS 17, so I've been lurking on yours. I like both designs, but of course the FS 17 is a more capable skiff.

I am also interested in a slightly higher freeboard, maybe not the max. So thanks for sharing and keep the pictures coming! Good luck with the rest of the build. regards, bob

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:25 pm**

Hi, not much time to work on the boat this week,but FWIW here is a progress update.

I have completed all the external filleting around the keel, bow and transom & rounded all the plywood edges with this-somebody said i'd need it...I think this is a start of a long love hate relationship!

Also built up the bow profile-
roughed out-

& smoothed over

I built some small fillets along the panel edges & let them cure,then remove the cable tie stiches-no big sproing which was good!
then sanded the welds for a key for the next application of fillet.
like this-

I also decided because the transom is so thick in the area of the clamping boards that I would get under the boat & fillet the transom sides from the inside as well, to make sure that there are no voids in the fillets.

that's the inside of the transom to the hull side you can see there, the picture fails to show an epoxy precoat, but it is there.
After filleting was complete & cured (next day) I rounded all the edges with a surform & RO

These photos were taken during the process, as I had to go in for the nightshift, & time was short, the round overs are better than the pics show.
Next up is to fill in some small imperfections, & then we should be good to go with the taping.
More pics tomorrow , I hope.
Steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:33 pm**

Looks great

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:40 pm**

Thanks larry!
As promised more pics

These 2 are of the finished bow profile,I am really pleased how this turned out

.

This is the transom edges rounded over ready for taping, all the edges that will be taped are finished like this.

This is my biggest gap to fill so far caused by over enthusiasm with a jigsaw when creating a decent sized gap for the fillet.
you may be able to see the wobbly line above it where the red mist descended, after i'd seen my faux pas, I should have stepped back for 10 minutes

& finally the hull without the raised sides, waiting to be taped & glassed.

Garge floor swept, tools away,(most of em , anyway)

Epoxy being ordered later this week, I only bought 7.5 kg's first off, I have used about 4.5 kg's so far.
As you may have gathered, from other parts of the forum, I am a first time builder,so anyone is welcome to chip in here,I appreciate it.I am using my experience in engineering & fabrication to guide me, along with forum searches & questions BUT, people chipping with any handy tips,is nice too.
Steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:48 pm**

steve292 wrote:

That's a nice looking hull. I like the shape, and angle from bottom panels to the bow section.

It looks to me like the FS17 is a very popular design, lot's of new threads about it!

Nice work on joining all those bits of wood together!

Quick question: how many pieces of ply make up one side panel, as in the pic - it looks to me like only two?

Tim.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:05 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:
That's a nice looking hull. I like the shape, and angle from bottom panels to the bow section.

It looks to me like the FS17 is a very popular design, lot's of new threads about it!

Nice work on joining all those bits of wood together!

Quick question: how many pieces of ply make up one side panel, as in the pic - it looks to me like only two?

Tim.

Hi Tim,
there are two full sheets & about 700mm of a third IIRC, I changed the nesting a bit because roobins timber ply is slightly longer than 2440mm,
the reason being that the drawing for the panel uses a plywood edge as a station line, & it didn't quite work out using the suggested nesting,for reasons I don't quite recall

Old age creeping up I suppose.

you can just see the splice in this pic of the transom to hull skin joint
steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:09 pm**

OK, I see it now. Your 'short' section is near the transom - my short sections are near the bow.

Cheers,

Tim.

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:12 pm**

Steve, great work! everything looks like its coming together nicely, pretty work!
Daniel

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:00 pm**

colonialc19 wrote:Steve, great work! everything looks like its coming together nicely, pretty work!
Daniel

Thanks Daniel, The seams are taped now, some pics in the gallery, full post to follow,nights again this weekend ,although I was ill on friday ,spent the day in bed. I haven't had a headache like that for years

Have to order cloth next week so I am starting to dry fit the raised side panels while I wait.
hows your build?, lots of FS17's popping up,aren't there?

Steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm**

Hi,this weeks update
the taping of the outside seams is now complete.
some pics-
Two layers of tape on keel

view down the CL-see the air bubble about a foot down?

Can anyone tell me the best way to deal with this?- I am thinking of drilling a small hole in it and injecting some slightly thickened epoxy into it.
Two layers transom tape-

And an overall view-

There are already four layers of biax over the area where the keel meets the bow, which is impressive when you realise that with the extended sides taped along the bow seam there will be 11 layers of biax in total(inside & out) at that point.

Finally, I am waiting for cloth to turn up(ordered yesterday) so I have started to dry fit the extended sides, to mark & drill for screws for when the time comes.I was going to glue them on before glassing the outside of the hull, but I am leaning away from this.

The reason I am leaning away from putting the sides on before glassing is that the cloth will go right up to the top of the designed side along quite a bit of its length. I need some guidance here- can I Install the side panel over the top of the fibreglass,after the hull has been glassed or does it need to go on first & then glass up over the extended side?

I asked something similar in the power boat section earlier, but I am hoping that these pictures will help, I know quite a few boats have a double panel side, so there must be a lot of experience out there.
Steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:55 pm**

steve292 wrote:Can anyone tell me the best way to deal with this?- I am thinking of drilling a small hole in it and injecting some slightly thickened epoxy into it....

...can I Install the side panel over the top of the fibreglass,after the hull has been glassed or does it need to go on first & then glass up over the extended side?...

Fantastic progress Steve... I saw some of your pics earlier today, including the bubble one.

I had a similar issue: I drilled a small hole through the glass at each of the furthest ends of the bubble, and squeezed straight epoxy in one hole until it oozed out the other. Problem solved.

As far as the sides go, what do your plans say? On my boat the plans call for glass going up 6" from the chine. That is all I did. Unless your plans say otherwise, or you intend bumping into quay-sides/rocks without fenders, I see no reason to go further. Though, I know some peeps like covering their entire hulls in glass, it's going to add a lot of weight, glass and cost. If you want to cover the lower side panels completely with glass, I'd do it before the upper panels go on. The extra thickness might mean that the uppers (as they have been moved out a mm or two) might not meet at the front - no prob - gaps can be filled.

Just remember, from a cost-of-glass point of view, the glass might not be wide enough to run from the overlap at the keel all the way to the top of the lower side panel, so to extend it means at least another half-width sheet of glass at, what, about 6 - 6.5 metres long?

IMHO, stick to the plans - if they don't call for glass, don't add it.

Just my thoughts.

Looking fine!

Tim.

Posted: **Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:00 pm**

Steve, I have looked over my C19 plans today to try to help you. Hopefully JimW will also kick in since he has built a C19. Anyway, go ahead and put your bulwarks(additional freeboard) on now. Fiberglass it to the lower hull and then run your rubrail to strengthen the upper portion of it from to transom and bow.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:54 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:I drilled a small hole through the glass at each of the furthest ends of the bubble, and squeezed straight epoxy in one hole until it oozed out the other.

I should have said - injected epoxy into one hole with a syringe until it came out the second hole.

Tim.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:25 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:
WobblyLegs wrote:I drilled a small hole through the glass at each of the furthest ends of the bubble, and squeezed straight epoxy in one hole until it oozed out the other.
I should have said - injected epoxy into one hole with a syringe until it came out the second hole.

Tim.

Thanks for the advice, Tim.I've been looking for big bore syringes this morning. The glass just turned up for the hull

,so time to get everything sanded methinks.
Steve

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:54 am**

steve292 wrote:I've been looking for big bore syringes this morning.

Use little 10ml ones.

I have a couple of big ones, but never used them. Even with the little ones, you can feel the epoxy warming up inside them, so I think big ones might go off too quickly.

Tim.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:15 am**

I have the FS17 plans, so I have been following your build with great interest. I built a FS17 model with raised bulwarks, you can see it if you search on it (and some amusing additions done in photoshop).

I was thinking it would be easier to put the biax cloth on first, bulwarks afterwards. Since the bulwarks overlap the sides by 12", you could run the ragged end of the cloth say, 10" from the edge of the panel and never bother fairing it in. Just run the bulwark panel over the top of the glass and you've saved yourself some fairing.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:51 am**

retrosub wrote:I have the FS17 plans, so I have been following your build with great interest. I built a FS17 model with raised bulwarks, you can see it if you search on it (and some amusing additions done in photoshop).

I was thinking it would be easier to put the biax cloth on first, bulwarks afterwards. Since the bulwarks overlap the sides by 12", you could run the ragged end of the cloth say, 10" from the edge of the panel and never bother fairing it in. Just run the bulwark panel over the top of the glass and you've saved yourself some fairing.

I used your model photos as a screensaver for a while(replaced with my own boat pic now

). very good model BTW, I doubt if mine would have been as good.
The sides overlap 6" onto the hull panels,but your idea is still a good,valid timesaver of an idea,which I am leaning towards more & more,because the side will still cover a lot of the glass edge.
Steve

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:15 pm**

Steve are you doing the raised bulwark by the plan.. re: 12in with 6in overlap...??

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:50 pm**

mecreature wrote:Steve are you doing the raised bulwark by the plan.. re: 12in with 6in overlap...??

Well...............nearly, I am going 7" up (175mm) and overlapping the side panel by 155mm(6 1/4 ish"). The reason being, the way I nested the ply,this was the most I could get easily.I did this not because of any doubt about the seakeeping ability of the design but because I have a little girl who will be 3 in febuary, & I think it will be safer if she comes on the boat with me, & it will give me more peace of mind.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:55 pm**

Steve that is a great point for raising the bulwarks(sides). A 3 year old is a precious comodity. I looked at my C19 plans again. The instructions are basically mark the area on the lower hull where the upper bulwark will set. Then apply glue to both parts, you might want put some small nails or screws to support the upper bulwark, in the frames.

You should have extended the frames for the extra bulwark. if not do it before doing the above. This is why Jacque says flip it now with out attaching the rubrail.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:17 pm**

I would use the same method I used to glue the false laps on my skiff.
http://www.paysbs.com/forum/index.php?topic=3.0

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:18 am**

Steve, I've been following your build with interest I am starting 1st week in Dec. I would like to come up from poole and have a chat what is the best way of contacting you. Roger

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:19 am**

Sorry steve I should have said email me through the link at the bottom of my profile cheere Roger

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:15 pm**

Cockspur, I have e-mailed you, let me know if you got it.
Steve

Posted: **Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:24 pm**

steve292 wrote:Cockspur, I have e-mailed you, let me know if you got it.
Steve

just got your reply

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:09 am**

Steve, Thank you for putting up with me yesterday when you were glassing the bottom. Work always fascinated me when someone else is doing it !

I think you are doing a sterling job and she looks great.

The visit answered a lot of questions, I was intending to cut my teeth on the FS17 and then go for the big one next year, ie an LB26.
But as Pamela Anderson is reputabley to have said " Anybody who says size doesn't matter is a liar". I have now decided to cut my teeth on a Tender and build the LB26 starting next year. I will continue to monitor your progress with interest. Roger

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:21 pm**

Cockspur wrote:Steve, Thank you for putting up with me yesterday when you were glassing the bottom. Work always fascinated me when someone else is doing it !

I think you are doing a sterling job and she looks great.

The visit answered a lot of questions, I was intending to cut my teeth on the FS17 and then go for the big one next year, ie an LB26.
But as Pamela Anderson is reputabley to have said " Anybody who says size doesn't matter is a liar". I have now decided to cut my teeth on a Tender and build the LB26 starting next year. I will continue to monitor your progress with interest. Roger

It was no problem Roger, I hope I was some help to you in making your decision.
Since I last posted I have sanded down the whole boat to prepare it for fibreglassing the outside of the hull-I went a bit wild with the RO doing this & ground through 1 layer of tape on the bow

Cue some hasty posting to the fibreglass section of the forum, thanks to shine for the quick answers on how to repair it.
I cut a patch of biax to cover it which overlapped the damaged area by about 3" all round, which I later put on about an hour before I glassed the big sheets on the hull.
I laid out & trimmed the big sheets dry -

The cardboard on the top of the hull Has "PUT THE REPAIR PATCH ON FIRST"written on it BTW, as I am terrible at remembering things like that.
So, I folded one sheet of fabric back out of the way, glassed in the patch repair, injected neat epoxy in the air bubble,measured out 12, 8 pump batches of resin with no hardener(as I find it easier just to add the hardener to each batch as it is required) glassed one sheet of fabric, had a cup of tea, chatted to cockspur, who had come up from Poole to have a look, folded back over the other cloth panel & glassed that as well

.
just out of interest, I used a spreader to move the epoxy around on the glass, for speed & then went back & worked it with a foam roller to push it through the glass. This also makes the epoxy spread further.I wish I had weighed the glass & a batch of mixed resin so I could work out how I am doing on a resin/glass ratio.Oh well.
some pics
overall view

& one along the chine

I will glass the transom after the side panels are on, the other pic is some small air bubbles(tiny)that I will drill & fill with epoxy in due course.

as always comments welcome,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:25 pm**

Very nice...

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:42 pm**

Great job steve, i have been watching youre build since the start. I finally joined the web site. Iwas also was going to build the fs17 but when i saw the pic's of the abaco23 i decided to wait for those plans. In the mean time i will probably build an fs14 to get ready. Keep up the good work and post more pic's.

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:35 pm**

I'm gonna be a few months behind you if my wife doesn't leave me.

Can't wait to see when you flip it. Need you in the picture to give the size some perspective.

Great job so far. I hope I do as well.

What's your intent on the interior layout? or did I miss that earlier in the thread?

Jbo

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:08 am**

topwater wrote:Great job steve, i have been watching youre build since the start. I finally joined the web site. Iwas also was going to build the fs17 but when i saw the pic's of the abaco23 i decided to wait for those plans. In the mean time i will probably build an fs14 to get ready. Keep up the good work and post more pic's.

Sorry did I miss something where did you see the pics of the ABACO 23 ?

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:54 pm**

jbo_c wrote:I'm gonna be a few months behind you if my wife doesn't leave me.

Can't wait to see when you flip it. Need you in the picture to give the size some perspective.

Great job so far. I hope I do as well.

What's your intent on the interior layout? or did I miss that earlier in the thread?

Jbo

I am going with the centre console & gunnels(gunwales?)layout.It will have a full frame at A with an anchor locker, fuel in the console under the front seat.Battery located possibly in a different, sealed compartment in the console or in one of the stern lockers, I dont know yet.It is intended as a boat for family days out as well as a fishing boat so some compromise between deck space & seating will have to be done.Perhaps some removeable thwart type seats or suchlike.
Steve

Posted: **Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:07 pm**

Cockspur I saw the pic;s of the abaco23 in the questions before buying plans forum. posted nov 1. Also saw the thread alury bro's 23 and was waiting to see what jac's was going to do with it. I knew it would be good.

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:17 pm**

since last posting, I haven't had much time to work on the boat as I have either been working or on daddy duty, but I have managed to glue both bulwark panels on.
I did this by first dry fitting the panels & marking the hull where they lay when I was satisfied with their position,

I then marked 2 parallel lines 4 1/2 " apart along the bulwark panels with the first line set in 1" from what will be the style line. Then I drilled clearance holes for 3/4 long no8 woodscrews 6" apart with each row staggered 3" from the other in the bulwark panel only.78 screws in each panel.
I made 4 simple supports to clamp on the transom & frames A,B & E to hold the panels at the right height while setting up & screwing the panels on.

It was then fairly straightforward to roller a coat of straight epoxy where the panels mate to each other, & mix & apply a fairly stiff glue of woodflour & 'poxy, rest the panels on the supports, shuffle them back & forth to the correct position & screw them on, working back from the bow to the stern. It all looks very fair to me, but the sanding will soon tell me I suppose. I have also laid the first fillet in the bow seam & when everything has set I will start to shape the bow for taping.

glued & screwed panel resting on supports

First side set ,second side setting........bow seam filled.
I will try to get some pics with me in for perspective soon.
one thing at a time..........................................but its a bloody big 17 & a bit footer!
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:39 pm**

By how much did you raise the sides again? That looks enormous.

And how many extra sheets did it take?

Jbo

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:52 pm**

jbo_c wrote:By how much did you raise the sides again? That looks enormous.

And how many extra sheets did it take?

Jbo

you saying that set me wondering...............I was aiming for a 155mm (61/4") overlap with a 175mm(7") height extension. I've just been out and measured the extension at 190mm with a 150mm overlap.the frames all line up except frame E, so I am now wondering where I put in a consistently wrong measurement.which leads on to the next question- is that extension too high? it looks ok aesthetically but is there any other reason to be wary?Jacques does say you can go higher than 150mm so I dont think that 40mm is going to be to much.It took four more sheets of 1/4 btw.
Just to give you a reference i'm 6" the highest point on the chine is chest height with the sheer line at the same point mid thigh.

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:29 pm**

Hey Steve,
Lookin' good! I like the raised sides on your boat! I thought the standard FS 17 was big... wow I like the raised sides! Keep the pics coming!!!
Jeremy Groves

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:58 pm**

jbo_c wrote: Need you in the picture to give the size some perspective.
Jbo

Her you go-

I am 6' tall & the straight edge I am holding across the hull is also 6'

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:06 pm**

I like the way that worked out. It's like scaling the boat up, but different.

Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:08 pm**

Perfect, Thanks.

Other than (potentially)safety in heavy seas, what is your intention in extending the sides? You won't really add any capacity and it might tend to be tippy. What are you after?

I'm not trying to sharpshoot you. But how do you know you haven't added more problems than you solved. I know Jacques says the sides can be raised, but he doesn't actually "suggest" it.

I ask mainly because I'm considering adding to mine, but I don't know what I'll really gain(I'm leaning against right now). Maybe your thoughts will help.

Thanks.

Jbo

PS What's the max beam with the extended sides?

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:06 am**

Steve, Have you discovered how you ended up with that height of extension yet? I am back on for building mine starting in Dec and was looking at raised sides as we discussed when we met. I am now a little concerned having seen your pics. I agree with Jacques you are going to have an awkward job reaching in and out of the turned hull to fit stringers and frames. I am also interested in Jacques views on the result. I guess we are not going to know the scope of tipyness until she hits the water. I am thinking that maybe you have added to the safety issue by going so high. I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is what these forums are all about, I will be following the feedback and your progress with interest. Roger

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:40 am**

Steve, I am away for the next 10 days, sailing with the jubilee Sailing Trust www.jst.org Did not want you thinking I ... uck Roger

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:19 am**

Looks pretty cool to me.. maybe a bit more tippy on the water but it is all give and take.

I bet side by side with a FS17 without the raised panels it will seem like a much bigger boat...

Are you going to raise the front deck any?

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:53 pm**

jbo_c wrote:Perfect, Thanks.

Other than (potentially)safety in heavy seas, what is your intention in extending the sides? You won't really add any capacity and it might tend to be tippy. What are you after?
Thanks.
Jbo
PS What's the max beam with the extended sides?

The beam at station C has gone out from 2090mm to 2280mm which equates to about 7 5/8" extra overall. The 6" extension that JM shows how to cut in the plans will put the beam out by about 5" overall by my rough measurement(the jig is in the way) anyhow. This is without a rubrail obviously.
The reason for the raised sides are so I don't have to superglue a 3 yr old to the deck to stop her getting out/flying over the side.The boat is perfectly seaworthy as it is designed I think.The raised sides just ensure I can enjoy my day out with a bit less stress.

Steve, Have you discovered how you ended up with that height of extension yet? I am back on for building mine starting in Dec and was looking at raised sides as we discussed when we met. I am now a little concerned having seen your pics. I agree with Jacques you are going to have an awkward job reaching in and out of the turned hull to fit stringers and frames. I am also interested in Jacques views on the result. I guess we are not going to know the scope of tipyness until she hits the water. I am thinking that maybe you have added to the safety issue by going so high. I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is what these forums are all about, I will be following the feedback and your progress with interest. Roger

Roger,
you are quite right if I did'nt want to share stuff I would'nt post here, all polite comments are welcome. At least people here are frank.(which is a good thing). the bulwark panel should have been 330mmwide total(175 + 155) but has ended up 340mm(150+190) wide, which I just think I got the wrong figure in my head(tape measure blindness).Lets put this in perspective.It is 15mm higher than I planned due to a combination of measurement & positioning errors,& 40mm higher than the extension shown in the plans.It's not like i'm building the Mary rose is it.
I will, if JM does'nt read this thread & comment in the next 24hrs post in the power boat section & ask his advice before filleting & glassing the bulwark to the transom, so I can cut it down if nessesary.I know the inside work will be a challenge until the sole starts going in, or at least the stringers are in, but I will cross that particular bridge when I come to it.

Looks pretty cool to me.. maybe a bit more tippy on the water but it is all give and take.

I bet side by side with a FS17 without the raised panels it will seem like a much bigger boat...

Are you going to raise the front deck any?

Mecreature, thanks,the plan is to have a full frame at A with a deck to the bow.
keep the opinions coming i'm open to debate

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:35 pm**

Steve, when you quote the measurements it is not as drastic as it looked in your pics, and it is always difficult to judge when looking at a hull upside down I take on doard fully your reasoninhg for doing it, and when the sole is in the gunnel is going to be about knee height, which will stop abyone being catapulted over the side if they fall backwards against the gunnel. You are doing a great job both on the build and keeping us all up to date with details and pics, and I commend for it. Roger

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:37 pm**

Typing is atrocious must be that second glass of cockspur !!

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:53 pm**

Cockspur wrote:Typing is atrocious must be that second glass of cockspur !!

All you need is a third to help limber up the fingers

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:50 am**

Typing is atrocious must be that second glass of cockspur !!

All you need is a third to help limber up the fingers

Cider works for me, only trouble is I can't see the keyboard to type after a few...........

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:10 pm**

Hey Steve...I saw you over on Jeremy's thread trying to get some motivation...I think your doing just fine!!! Work has gotten the best of me lately. Looks to be settling a bit. Going to start the jig soon. Love your thread, always one of the first I goto when I have a chance. Keep up the good work!

Posted: **Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:19 pm**

Not much to report really,I had a think about the sides & stood back while I did it. I am going with them as they are & be damned.
So, I have taped the bow seam with 2 layers of tape, & the same with the bulwark panels at the transom. The transom has been glassed fully tonight, & I am using 2 halogen lights on it to keep up the temprature while it cures. I have been frustrated by not being able to do this before, due to some freezing weather, as it was the last major glassing before I could begin fairing.Other stuff I have made progress with includes cutting the rubrail strips, laminating a skeg out of 3 layers of 12mm 1088, 7 feet long, this I will glass before I fillet & tape it to the hull. I will post pics early next week when I have more time to do it. It is nice to have my motivation back, & I thank Jeremy Groves , Daniel & lower for posting progress which has got me going again.
Cheers,
Steve

Posted: **Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:35 pm**

Sounds like good progress to me Steve, keep at it. The weather here has also cooled off a bit, have had a few nights at or below freezing. Hopefully it will warm a bit this week, im looking to mix some glue and start tacking my panels together.
Rock on!

Daniel

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:28 pm**

Its not much but here are a few pics of what I have managed to get done in the last week or so,

After the glassing of the transom, I sanded off the edges of the tapes on the transom, the mixed up some fairing compound. This I bought from the epoxy supplier, I believe it is mostly made up of microballoons & some other stuff.
Anyway, the weather was cold through the day as well as the night,& even with two 500w halogens shining on it it took the best part of 18 hrs to go off. The end result is as you can see it ran & sagged a bit.What can I add to minimize sagging?. I have used silica on my vertical fillets,but hesitate to use it for fairing as I believe it is hard to sand. Any advice please?I also need to make a long board.
look at the temperature range I am working in, its not much fun.

I have some quickfair on order, I will build up the transom with the homemade stuff in thin layers to minimise sagging,& use the QF to finish it as QF is Â£126 for 5.7 litres by the time the shipping is added.
I also cut a skeg from three layers of 12mm 7 feet long

But I dont like it, too big & blocky. I think I will cut it down a bit & use a constant taper from front to back.
Also I have cut the rubrails, 3 layers of 6mm 45mm wide

& dry fitted the first layer on one side

so there it is, pitifully slow, but forwards neverless,
Regards,
steve

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:01 am**

That's great progress, Steve. Especially in chilly weather. The boat looks great, too. It is amazing how much you really got done, after you list it all. Can't wait to see her over!

Huck

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:55 am**

Try a space heater in your workspace...and place one UNDER your hull...heat rises and will warm the hull and help "kick" epoxies off...use electric and babysit them...dont allow them to run unattended...

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:03 pm**

Id give anything to have those temps back!

17F here today (-8C)

Looking nice!

E

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:34 pm**

Looks great steve.....Cant wait to you roll her.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:54 pm**

Spokaloo wrote:Id give anything to have those temps back!

17F here today (-8C)

Looking nice!

E

now thats cold!!(to a brit anyway) Thats inside the garage mind you with the door shut.Its quite wet & breezy here as well which is making it feel raw. I just get frustrated that I seem to have lost a lot of the momentum I had. Tho' seeing Daniel's TX18 go in gave me quite a fillip, you could feel his joy over the 'net.
If the weather starts to beat me what I think I will do is to cut all the console parts, skeg, sprayrails & start fitting the rubrails as that will only be small areas that need heating.
I did toy with Beach's suggestion of space heaters but the garage is attached to the house.................I have a memory like a sieve sometimes ,so good idea but not for me....I will just have to be patient, & go green at Jeremys progress. He will have his boat in by the time mines flipped I think

Edit; -3C here in work tonight

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:34 pm**

And here I am getting ready to build in Guam, where its always 85 - 90 degrees, and maybe I was the only one ordering slow hardener this week.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:35 pm**

Steve my wife and I have a cabin that we heat with electric space heaters. They have there own there own thermostats and keep us a nice toasty 50 when it is 0C. We only use 2 in 1200 sq ft. With electric you don't have to worry about watching them. Have had them for 10 years now. Paid about $29 for them at our home depot/lumber store. Saw them there for the same price last week. You could get a third and build an epoxy booth to keep your epoxy warm before you apply it. Another thing would be to help would be to get a couple of heat lamps and point them at the hull from the ceiling.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:53 pm**

Howdy Steve!
How is the boat coming? Have you got your quickfair yet? The stuff works wonders! I have used it in some fairly cold temps 30s F all the way up to 90s F.
It is colder here as well. Atleast cold enough that I am afraid to use the fast hardner at night. I am currently in the process of priming, but again it's cold and the primer Interlux primer needs 50 F to work properly.
Your boat's going to look great when your done.... I'm looking forward to seeing the raised sides upright.
Jeremy

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:29 pm**

I will 2nd... or is it 3rd or 4ths... the electic heater... give it and hour or so and it warms it up nice..

that boat looks great.. it will be nice when you get her flipped.

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:10 pm**

Keep at it man, she is looking very nice

I didn't have to fool with the cold during this build, but I did live in Alaska before moving back to FL. Even a slightly heated space will work wonders for your progress and your sanity.

I believe you are on track for a beautiful boat.

You are certainly right about moving forwards. My motto was "something done each day is something that wasn't done the day before" Persistance pays.

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:11 pm**

jgroves wrote:Howdy Steve!
How is the boat coming? Have you got your quickfair yet? The stuff works wonders! I have used it in some fairly cold temps 30s F all the way up to 90s F.
It is colder here as well. Atleast cold enough that I am afraid to use the fast hardner at night. I am currently in the process of priming, but again it's cold and the primer Interlux primer needs 50 F to work properly.
Your boat's going to look great when your done.... I'm looking forward to seeing the raised sides upright.
Jeremy

Jeremy, I have got the QF, came yesterday. I have to thank Paul McClure from KHL systems for that & the words of encouragement, nice fella to deal with so he gets the nod for the paint system as well.Did you seal the QF with epoxy before priming as it says so on the tin, or as the primer is epoxy based, did you just go straight into it?. This week I am fitting the rubrails & currently have one layer on each side glued, with another layer on the starboard side dry fitted for tomorrow. Also I have re-profiled the skeg & will probably shape it a bit more with the plane & sander, fair it a bit before fitting it after the fairing is done. I was going to tape it as well as epoxy glue it, but the boat will only rarely be run up on a beach, so I dont think it is nessecary. I am undecided wether or not to paint or coat the bottom of the hull with graphite as yet. The transom had another layer of homemade compound, as this I think is going to be the hardest bit to fair, because of all the glass overlaps & it will cut down on the QF use a bit, also I have made 2 long boards as well. I will post some pics over the weeekend if I can.
how about some more pics of your masterpiece ?

will 2nd... or is it 3rd or 4ths... the electic heater... give it and hour or so and it warms it up nice..

that boat looks great.. it will be nice when you get her flipped

Thanks Mecreature................It will be nice to flip it, I look forward to it
The space heater, I am still thinking about, I may get one in the new year, the weather has warmed up a bit here this week

.
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:14 pm**

familyman wrote:Keep at it man, she is looking very nice

I didn't have to fool with the cold during this build, but I did live in Alaska before moving back to FL. Even a slightly heated space will work wonders for your progress and your sanity.

I believe you are on track for a beautiful boat.

You are certainly right about moving forwards. My motto was "something done each day is something that wasn't done the day before" Persistance pays.

Your right about persistence..............thanks for the kind words, praise indeed from someone who has just turned out a mighty fine piece of work.
thank you,
steve

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:27 am**

Howdy Steve,
I will hopefully get some more pics up tomorrow. Last night I couldn't do much more than wipe the dust off.....

. I did not seal the quickfair with epoxy before I primed.... I hope I didn't mess up. However I only have one coat of Interlux Barier Kote on it so taking it off and applying epoxy is still possible. If you or anyone has advice on that I would be greatfull.
Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:53 am**

j don't know that mu;ch about the Interlux products without looking them up but if it is an epoxy based primer no problem.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:07 am**

TomW wrote:j don't know that mu;ch about the Interlux products without looking them up but if it is an epoxy based primer no problem.

Tom

Sheeeeeew! Yeah, I just check and the Barier Kote/ Primekote is an epoxy based primer. THanks for responding. I would hate to have to sand the primer off

Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:34 am**

Jeremy your not using Primekote below the waterline are you, when you said barrier coat in your first post I didn't know that, but Primekote is made to go under Perfection above the waterline. Double check me it's been a little while but that is my recollection.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:54 am**

TomW wrote:Jeremy your not using Primekote below the waterline are you, when you said barrier coat in your first post I didn't know that, but Primekote is made to go under Perfection above the waterline. Double check me it's been a little while but that is my recollection.

Tom

Hello TomW,
I was hoping that I could... Any idea what speed I would have to go to take the paint off

? I honestly hadn't paid much attention to the primer for the bottom but if I need to sand it off of the bottom now is the time. Thanks for you help Tom!!!
Sorry for getting off of your build Steve!
Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:01 am**

jgroves wrote:
TomW wrote:Jeremy your not using Primekote below the waterline are you, when you said barrier coat in your first post I didn't know that, but Primekote is made to go under Perfection above the waterline. Double check me it's been a little while but that is my recollection.

Tom
Hello TomW,
I was hoping that I could... Any idea what speed I would have to go to take the paint off ? I honestly hadn't paid much attention to the primer for the bottom but if I need to sand it off of the bottom now is the time. Thanks for you help Tom!!!
Sorry for getting off of your build Steve!
Jeremy

Don't worry about it. anyway this discussion has relevance for me as well, although I am planning to use all system 3 products for fairing, priming & painting where possible.
Steve

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:05 am**

I wouldn't worry about using that primer below the waterline if it is the 2 part primer Interlux . Are you trailering your boat? That primer is an epoxy primer. You should be fine.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:24 am**

BruceM wrote:I wouldn't worry about using that primer below the waterline if it is the 2 part primer Interlux . Are you trailering your boat? That primer is an epoxy primer. You should be fine.

Hey BruceM,
Yes I will be trailering the boat. I think that's how I came to the conclusion that I could use the Primekote (formerly named Barrier Kote) on the entire boat. Upon my new concerns I did read that Primekote is not for high speeds...??? I don't know if I will be considered fast or not

.
Any additional help/info (good or bad) is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:42 am**

Jeremy I have some time this morning, I'm down with a bug. I'll try to pull the tech sheet and see what it says.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:22 am**

TomW wrote:Jeremy I have some time this morning, I'm down with a bug. I'll try to pull the tech sheet and see what it says.

Tom

Thanks Tom!
I emailed Interlux and as far as I can tell the Primekote should be ok to use. However I gave the tech guy all the info I could on how I'm using it and the temps and types of use and I will see what he says.
Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:49 am**

Jeremy pulled the Data Sheet under

Number of Coats Above the Waterline: 1-2 Below the Waterline 5-6

That's a direct quote from the sheet. There is no mention about speed and with your FS17 I would not worry about it. That is usually only a problem for the over 50's guys if it is a problem.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:59 am**

steve292 wrote:Did you seal the QF with epoxy before priming as it says so on the tin, or as the primer is epoxy based, did you just go straight into it?

Steve, you can go direct to primer if you are using the epoxy primer.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 am**

TomW wrote:Jeremy pulled the Data Sheet under

Number of Coats Above the Waterline: 1-2 Below the Waterline 5-6

That's a direct quote from the sheet. There is no mention about speed and with your FS17 I would not worry about it. That is usually only a problem for the over 50's guys if it is a problem.

Tom

THANKS TOM for taking the time to look into it! More coats on the bottom shouldn't be a problem as that's the area I enjoy reaching

There are times I wish I would have used S3 for the paints because of the wealth of info on here about them. However a custom boat shop is on one side of me and Carolina Classic boat company on the other. Both within yellin' distance. They use interlux often and that is why I thought Interlux first.
Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:14 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:
steve292 wrote:Did you seal the QF with epoxy before priming as it says so on the tin, or as the primer is epoxy based, did you just go straight into it?
Steve, you can go direct to primer if you are using the epoxy primer.

Thanks Paul, I started using QF on the transom this afternoon, got one thin coat on & sanded & another one on & curing-wonderful stuff is'nt it, goes on bueatifully & sands like a dream.............also ordered another load of sandpaper....norton abrasives must love me

Steve

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:59 pm**

I hate fairing

I am starting to fair the bottom of the hull. I am using the homemade fairing compound to fill the weave of the fabric & build up the low spots. The transom is about 75% faired at the moment, what I plan to do is this;
get the bottom there or thereabouts & then square the transom bottom edge, I have some milled cotton fibre for this.Then I will finish the fairing.
I made 2 fairing boards 600mm long by 115mm wide with doorknob handles

this one is 2 layers of 18mm ply glued together, the other is 1 layer, I did that to see which one worked best.I use spray adhesive to hold the paper on-

I am using norton paper, cracking stuff.
It is a slow process at the moment as I am unsure of the best way to proceed with fairing really, so don't be shy with suggestions please.
other stuff I have been doing is fitting the rubrail one layer at a time. the port side is complete, just needs the kerfs filling & sanding to a finish, which I will do after the fairing proccess is over. I fitted these now because the raised sides seemed a tad flimsy, The rail has cured that

I used 6mm dowels in each layer, sanding them off & re-drilling for the next one.
This is the 1st layer on the port side glued ready for 2nd layer to be fitted

& this is the finished rail on the starboard side ready to be sanded.It may look a bit wavy in the pic but I assure you it isn't.Just the camera

slooowly ever onwards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:46 am**

Steve, looking great man! let me know how the fairing board works out for you, I'll be needing one soon i hope. Looks like you went with dowls for installing the rub rail?
Wish I could help you with the fairing question, but cant, no experience yet. Shines fs12 thread may be of some help, I think they touched on it some.

Dainel

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:56 am**

Looking Great Steve! Fairing seems to be a long process for most everyone. I like your fairing board! I believe 3M makes a velcro type material you can permanently glue to your board... then the paper just velcros on to that.
The more I look the more I like your raised sides! Great looking boat.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:58 am**

2 18 mil ply is a thick board.. .1 ply is thick. that is what I made and am going to make another even thinner to better match the curve of the panels.

You should be making good time with either of those board I would think. You just have to do your time is what I gather. I dont know how people can fair these big boats without help..

I use beer to help me.

That is going to be one sweet boat.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:51 am**

Awesome as usual Steve. I love the dowel idea and plan to use it as well. Don't think I quite get the cutting and re-drilling?? Can't drill all the way through and use the same dowel for all three?? Not doubting you, just curious. Sometimes things make more sense when your actually at that step!

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:48 pm**

Lower wrote:Awesome as usual Steve. I love the dowel idea and plan to use it as well. Don't think I quite get the cutting and re-drilling?? Can't drill all the way through and use the same dowel for all three?? Not doubting you, just curious. Sometimes things make more sense when your actually at that step!

Lower,
what I did was fit one layer of rail at a time. because I dont have enough clamps to do both sides at once I dry fitted the first layer one one side & drilled for dowels then removed it, glued it ,& fitted it. Whilst that side was curing I dry fitted the layer on the other side ready,using what clamps I had left, which believe it or not was just enough

.I did one layer at a time on alternate sides of the boat over four evenings & have one side completed & one more layer to go on the other. I read something by Shine once that to laminate one layer at a time is possibly the strongest way as long as you stagger your joints, it certainly was the easiest way for me as I can do a layer in the short work sessions that I seem to get.
Anyway today I lowered the boat down to make it easier to sand as it partially collapsed the trestles that the strong back was on, when moving side to side during sanding. I was going to do it anyway but the crunch came when the boat rocked away from me during a sanding stroke & kept going

.luckily no damage done

but a lesson learnt, I knew it was going to happen & should have been a bit less lazy & did something sooner.Tomorrow I will get under it with a level & re-level the strongback which is now on some big wood blocks & check everything carefully to make sure nothing is twisted.I dont think so from a check of the frames & stringers all seem pretty much where they where before.
Regards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:52 pm**

mecreature wrote:2 18 mil ply is a thick board.. .1 ply is thick. that is what I made and am going to make another even thinner to better match the curve of the panels.
I use beer to help me.

How thin would you suggest? I am all ears for any advice here.
Beer is a great help to me in many things

But also has been my undoing a few times

regards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:43 pm**

Steve 4 or 6 mil 1m. long works just fine for the non-straight areas. You get just enough pressure on each stroke for a good sand. You also sand fore to aft up and down so you don't have any big curves. You can also sand on an angle at the bow. Just be consistent in your sanding over the boat.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:01 pm**

I am going to make one with 1/4 in... just what Tom suggests. It will help make a fair curve. I have 2 ever so small flat spots where my butt blocks went. (fingers crossed).

also for small areas I recently tried some of those sandblasters.

http://www.3mestore.com/70071359817.htm ... OAodORGGAQ

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:15 pm**

mecreature wrote: for small areas I recently tried some of those sandblasters.

They work well, but don't last long. I began wraping disc paper around the soft blocks when they sandblasters ran out. Also 3M makes a hand held sander (also called SandBlaster) about 6" long that I found indespensable! It was purple and looked fragile.... The thing is now quickfair tan and still going!
Jeremy

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:03 pm**

Steve,

3M do a couple of types of longboard. One is a fairly rigid wooden one which doesn't flex and a lighter weight one which bends to the hull. They are designed to work with their Hook-It range of velcro-fastening abrasives. You get the board and buy the abrasive by the roll then just velcro the sandpaper on.

My preference is for the more flexible one since it's easier to follow the curves in the hull and get a nice even finish. I notice you are using your home-rolled fairing compound. You'll find the process much quicker and more pleasant when you start using the QuikFair, since it sands so much easier.

As to your eventual finish, it depends on what you want to achieve. My boats always look good from a distance - preferably through binoculars

I always start out with the intention of finishing it perfectly, but deadlines loom and I end up rushing to get the thing in the water, so I don't always take as much care over the faring process as I should.

If you are going for a really good finish then get a can of dark car spray paint. When the hull looks reasonably well faired, mist a coat of paint over the hull and pass over it with the longboard. Any hollows will show up with paint in them and should be filled and faired again. Repeat until you are either happy or lose the will to live...

If you get the fairing spot on the paint has a much better finish right out of the tin.

Paul.

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:32 pm**

Thanks so much for the advice guys.I will make a thinner board over the weekend, probably out of 6mm cheap ply. Paul I am going for as good a finish as I can. I already bought the black spray paint

. Time is not the issue here at the moment, it takes as long as it takes. I am using the homemade stuff to fill the weave & the tape edges, to make the QF go a bit further. the starbord side got its first coat of QF before I came to work tonight, so hopefully things will speed up a bit now.
thank you all for your input,
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:45 am**

I'm sorry Steve, I guess what I was getting at is, I thought it might be possible to clamp all three to the boat. Drill the hole through all three, add dowel, then remove strips. Then clamp one layer at a time, but only have to drill for the dowels once. Again, it's probably not a big deal, I was just curious.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:28 pm**

Lower wrote:I'm sorry Steve, I guess what I was getting at is, I thought it might be possible to clamp all three to the boat. Drill the hole through all three, add dowel, then remove strips. Then clamp one layer at a time, but only have to drill for the dowels once. Again, it's probably not a big deal, I was just curious.

Hi Lower,
It never crossed my mind to do it like that

It may have saved some work I guess.I see Jeremy did his rails off the boat & then fitted the whole rail in one,as I read it. I didn't have the room for that. I think as long as you achieve the right end result it what you do to get there,within reason is up to you. How is your boat going BTW?

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:59 pm**

It was more of a question than anything Steve. Your absolutly right in saying it's the end result that matters. I'll end up doing my rubrails just as you...with dowels. I was trying to figure it out. To be honest I wasn't even sure at first if you left them in or removed them somehow, but your saw off comment answered that.

I'm getting there. Jig is finished...finally. Panels are all spliced and holes are predrilled. I'm hoping to start hanging them this weekend. I'm having a blast with it to be honest...it's just taking longer than expected. I just keep telling myself...have fun...it gets done when it gets done. I think you wrote that somewhere too.

One last thing...I give you guys that are out in front a lot of credit. It's tough leading the show. As much as I'd like to be at your point, being a little behind has had some advantages, like that motorwell thing...Thanks again.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:23 pm**

Lower wrote:One last thing...I give you guys that are out in front a lot of credit. It's tough leading the show. .

I think every other FS17 under construction will be in the water before I finish fairing

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:38 pm**

jgroves wrote:
TomW wrote:Jeremy your not using Primekote below the waterline are you, when you said barrier coat in your first post I didn't know that, but Primekote is made to go under Perfection above the waterline. Double check me it's been a little while but that is my recollection.

Tom
Hello TomW,
I was hoping that I could... Any idea what speed I would have to go to take the paint off ? I honestly hadn't paid much attention to the primer for the bottom but if I need to sand it off of the bottom now is the time. Thanks for you help Tom!!!
Sorry for getting off of your build Steve!
Jeremy

I used Barrier Kote on my GV-11 and have been very pleased with it. I didn't use it on the inside, and I can definately tell the difference. No problems with it on the outside.

Posted: **Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:57 pm**

Hi, I hope everyone had a good christmas or whatever your choice of holiday/religous festival

.
Some progress has been made on the fairing front. I am getting more assured of the best way to progress, which for me means one thin skim of compound, followed by sanding, fill all visible imperfections with more compound & sand again. Sounds obvious, but when I started I was putting on too much compound which was causing me to sand way more off than I needed too.After the hull fell off the stands I lowered & relevelled it on stacked 4x4 timbers, which now means that besides being much easier to reach everything, there's no rocking as I sand

.I have finished one side of the hull bottom ready to prime, the transom is 90% done & I am currently working on the starboard lower panel.
A pic of the hull now it's lowered-

& one sort of semi side on-

I like that photo, I think it shows progress-or is that wishfull thinking?I also think it is the only one so far of a high sided FS17, though I may be wrong.
other stuff.... I finished the skeg-it is attached to the batten so I could hold it in the vice(or is it vise?

)

& the first bits of hardware are here, towing & bow eyes, 8mm s/s with a 4800kg SWL

I hope you all have a good new year, see you then

Regards,
Steve

Posted: **Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:31 pm**

Steve,

Nice job! As a result of the seven additional inches of freeboard, what is the new overall length of the boat?

Doug

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:02 am**

Dyce wrote:Steve,

Nice job! As a result of the seven additional inches of freeboard, what is the new overall length of the boat?

Doug

I have'nt measured it but it is about 7-8" longer at a guess I think,because the transom is further back as well.
I can measure it if it is important to you.
regards,
steve

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:12 am**

Thanks Steve, that's a close enough guesstimate...just kicking around the idea of building a boat that big in my garage.

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:29 pm**

Steve, looking great! Thanks for the pics and info!
Daniel

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:15 am**

Steve,
Looks great! Thanks for posting pics.
Jeremy

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:31 pm**

Steve, your boat is looking really good. I'm so jelous...wish I was that far along.

Posted: **Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:33 am**

Steve,

How's progress? I'm interested to see how you got on with the fairing job

Paul.

Posted: **Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:26 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:Steve,

How's progress? I'm interested to see how you got on with the fairing job

Paul.

Hi Paul,
I am slowly making progress with the fairing,although I am decorating a bedroom for my daughter, also have to do the nursery as well, we have a second baby due in march.

Also I have found that any quikfair on my skin at all brings me out in an incredible rash, this includes dust from sanding,so I have got to put on long sleeved shirts, tyvek overalls, face visor, respirator,barrier cream on any exposed skin,uncle tom cobbley and all.I found this out when I went outside the garage to stretch my legs, took my mask & gloves off & wiped my lips with the back of my hand after toucching the hull

the blisters took 2 weeks to go away

Apart from that it is going well I would say about 70% finished.Bear in mind that since end November I have probably put in less than 20 hours in total on the hull as having to dress up as above sort of puts paid to short sessions

. I am hoping to put in a hour or 2 later tonight to start sharpening up the port chine. The trouble is I want a fairly good finish & on the other hand have the boat flipped by easter

as then I will have plenty of stuff that I can spend the odd hour on.I will take some pics later to show what I have done.
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:47 pm**

Whenever you feel like your further behind than you would like to be...just think of me and all of a sudden your that much further ahead!

Congrats on the little one. Now your really going to have your hands full. I hope the Mrs. is doing well.

To bad about that fairing reaction. Sucks. At my pace, I'll find out if I have it in 09'!

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:37 pm**

Steve,
I hate to hear about the allergic reactions. I wonder what your allergic too in the quickfair?
Looking on the bright side the cooler temps will make the tyvek suit easier to wear

. Congrats on the baby too!!! Do you know if your have a boy or girl? Amazing you have time to sleep man! My wife and I had our first child on Sept 1st. One week later I hear the loudest blood curling scream I have ever experienced.... the dog and I looked at each other and seemed to have a mutual understanding... "time to get a hobby"! By the end of the month I had started the boat in the garage

. Our little girl is a blast! She actually spends all day at work with me which is great. However, her lungs have only grown stronger

Jeremy

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:58 pm**

Steve,

Sorry about the reaction. Normally S3 stuff is very allergy tolerant. I'll ask the guys and get back to you.

Paul.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:06 pm**

Steve,

I checked with System Three tech support about your reaction. They think that given your reaction it looks like you have already been sensitized to epoxy prior to using the QuickFair. Here's a quote:

"In our experience it is highly unlikely that one can develop a sensitization from contact with solidified but partially cured epoxy. However, individuals who are already sensitized may have a reaction from contact with sanding dust from totally cured epoxy. For this reason sensitized persons should give up their use of epoxy resin."

That is probably not the prognosis you were looking for. Had you got uncured epoxy on your skin prior to using QuickFair? We always recommend using disposable gloves when working with epoxy and changing them frequently. Also, never use any solvent to remove epoxy from skin as it actually helps drive the epoxy into the skin.

Some people can get a reaction fairly quickly but most don't experience any problems. But maintaining a barrier is the est way of avoiding the problem. I do get slightly concerned seeing pics of people working on their boats in bare legs and flip-flops since the risk of getting uncured epoxy on their skin is obviously greater. Well, at least judging by the state of my work overalls

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:30 pm**

Paul,
I always wear nitrile gloves.I have got epoxy on my wrists 3 or 4 times when removing my gloves. I also once had a bag burst when filleting. These are the only times I have had contact with uncured resin.I had never worked with epoxy in any significant quantity prior to this.I think the problem with the dust on my lips was due to the fact that I had a heavy headcold & already had a tender area(red coldsore) under my nose. I removed the respirator(3M 4277 BTW) & rubbed my nose, & thats how the dust got in.
However now I am aware of the fact that I seem to be one of the people whose skin can't tolerate exposure by contact, I will be extra carefull.
I will quantify this by saying thatI have worked in the petrochemical and power industries for 22 years and this is the first time I have had any sort of reaction.Thanks for your help & concern BTW, I may give you a ring to discuss it a bit more in the next few days if you don't mind.Have you got any of that nice primer yet?I will carry on with the quickfair as it is truly a time saver.I also sometimes wince when I see people working with no gloves ect.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:45 pm**

Steve someone else mentioned having a reaction to QF when he hadn't had a reaction to the epoxy recently in another post. I guess there may be something in the QF that is different from straight epoxy that can cause a reaction. Me I itch all over from the fiberglass fibers no reaction from the epoxy. Haven't got to QF yet.

Just be safe and cover up no use looking like a lobster.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:53 pm**

Steve,

Give me a call anytime. ETA for primer (and everything else I'm bringing over) is in the UK on the 12th of Feb. It usually takes a week or so to clear customs before it's in the warehouse.

Some people do get worse reactions than others. I know Jacques has mentioned he's been working with epoxy for years with no problems. With some epoxies I get a slight itching on my skin when I'm near uncured hardener, rather than the resin. But I don't seem to get any reaction when using System Three, which is fortunate under the circumstances

Having said that I'm really careful not to get any uncured epoxy on my skin and always work with a boiler suit (sleeves down) and disposable gloves. I'm probably more careful than average, firstly because I really enjoy building boats, but secondly because it's now my main business and I can't afford to be allergic to what I sell

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:20 pm**

jgroves wrote:Steve,
I hate to hear about the allergic reactions. I wonder what your allergic too in the quickfair?
Looking on the bright side the cooler temps will make the tyvek suit easier to wear . Congrats on the baby too!!! Do you know if your have a boy or girl? Amazing you have time to sleep man! My wife and I had our first child on Sept 1st. One week later I hear the loudest blood curling scream I have ever experienced.... the dog and I looked at each other and seemed to have a mutual understanding... "time to get a hobby"! By the end of the month I had started the boat in the garage . Our little girl is a blast! She actually spends all day at work with me which is great. However, her lungs have only grown stronger
Jeremy

Ha!!! In the U.K you can wear a tyvek suit all year except for maybe 2 days in August

I know where you are coming from with the hobby thing, with me it was a boat or a kit car.you can't fish out of a kit car so the boat won

. we don't know if the baby is a boy or a girl, I like suprises

.Lower, hang in there it's not a race,It will get done when it gets done.
See, I am hoping to paint before Easter, as when the baby comes work will come to almost a halt for a while.Oh, & did I mention SWMBO wants the kitchen & dining room extended & reworked as well

If the hull is rightside up I will be able to snatch an hour here & there, even it is just lots of dry fitting,sanding ready for filleting & taping,cutting cloth ect,so when I get half a day,or wondrous thing, a whole day I can get a bit done.

my partner works 2 days a week at the moment so I do daddy duty then which cuts down what I can do boatwise, obviously.BUT she starts her time off in febuary so I am hoping to have a bit of a push then...before she has a bit of a push ,if you get my drift

.

Posted: **Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:30 pm**

Steve,
Hate to hear about your quickfair problems, thats a bummer man.

Congratulations on the new addition

, love kids myself, have 3 boys

keep at it, the fairing process doesnt last forever, like Jeremy said at least its winter.

Daniel

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:01 am**

thank you all for your comments.
HOWEVER
I think I did the quickfair a bit of a disservice by blaming it totally for the reaction I had. I have been using blended filler as well in the deeper spots, & what I now think happened is that I sanded a mixture of QF & some not quite cured epoxy/filler mix,which then got into what was essentialy an open wound

, which set the blistering away .
I would not want to dissuade anyone from using QF, it is superb for fairing,much quicker to set & easier to sand than anything else.
having said that I am going to be much more carefull around epoxy in general & sanding it when cured in particular from now on.
I would certainly take every precaution if my employer asked me to use it in the course of my work, so why take short cuts at home?

Regards,
Steve

Posted: **Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:32 am**

Right now we are using QF every day with no reactions, BUT I know the hardener side is harsh. There is another builder here in FL who has had the same reaction to QF.

Allergies are interesting how they appear suddenly and only for some people. Best to use normal protective gear to avoid a possible allergy to any boat building material.

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:30 am**

Steve, hows the comming along?? havent heard anything from you since the qiuckfair reaction, just wondering how its working out.

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:56 am**

Hi Daniel,
Its moving along slowly,I only do an hour here and there. I would say about 80% complete with the fairing.I have some more to do on the port side of the hull bottom,the sides up to the bulwark panels are done,edges need to be squared off, transom nearly done. The bulwark panels just need all the filler on the screw holes sanded back, splices faired in & a coat of epoxy. I haven't posted much as fairing is an incremental thing, which only the person doing it will see until it comes together,so not much to show.I am going to use the new S3 primer,but it won't be in the UK until towards the end of Feb by all accounts,so I am hoping to be faired to my satisfaction by then.I really would like to flip around Easter. I have used about 4/5 off the 3.7 litre kit of QF I bought & am hoping it lasts out.
How about you?

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:25 am**

Steve, greetings. Your build looks great

I have been watching your build for several months and thought maybe it would be a good time to offer you some encouragment.

I am the builder from Florida that Joel mentioned in his post. My Quick Fair experience has been interesting to say the least. It first started when I was mixing some of the stuff and removed one glove to sign for a package. Finished mixing wo glove and got a blob on my hand and some between the fingers. My hand began to burn and get red later in the evening. At first, I blamed it on the acetone that I shouldn't have used to clean my hand. Over the next several days I sanded QF with gloves in a short sleeved button type shirt. After the rash kicked in on my face and arms I figured out I was allergic to the dust too.

I took it easy for a few days to let the blisters and rash go away. Spent several nights itching and trying to decide if I wanted to abandon the project. I decided to get more protection as you have done. Coat your entire body with baby powder before suit up. Make sure the collar is tight as the chest is a big problem area.

Hang in there you will get through the fairing stage, I did. Next time I am going to use phenolic and blended filler instead

......Richard

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:32 am**

Thanks Richard,
I don't know if it was sanding partially cured epoxy & fillers or the QF that did it, and I am in no hurry to find out

by repeating the experiment. I do much the same as you regarding protection now and have no real problems anymore.It is common sense when you think about it,& a bit of a no-brainer to wear appropriate PPE for the task in hand,like I said in an earlier post, I do it in work without comment or second thought, so why do so many of us not do it at home?

I have used blended filler to help with costs as it is about 1/3 the money of QF,but it is a PITA to sand.What I have found it good for is to build up areas such as the transom end of the hull where there are multiple glass overlaps. I build it up level,give it a sand, then use QF to finish.It is a shame really that its taken me so long to work this out

but it will be handy if I can swing the catamaran that has been mooted on the forum recently

I read & watch your build as well, I find it very interesting to see how other builders approach things. That XF20 sure looks like a nice boat,built by a skilled man who takes pride in what he does.It will be one of my coming milestones to find a trailer as well.
thanks for the encouragement,
regards,
steve

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:00 pm**

Steve glad your doing better. I am sure it was the QF that messed me up and it probably worked on you as well. I am almost done with the paint so I really won't have to use the stuff for a while.

It's a shame that we are allergic to the stuff because it really is the bomb.

Good luck on your build

....Richard

Posted: **Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:30 pm**

Steve, sounds like you have it moving along, I'm certainly guilty of improper PPE, been lucky so far, Don't think I'll push my luck anymore though.
Glad to hear of your progress,
Daniel
( the slowest Fs17 build on the board

)

Posted: **Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:09 pm**

colonialc19 wrote:Steve, sounds like you have it moving along, I'm certainly guilty of improper PPE, been lucky so far, Don't think I'll push my luck anymore though.
Glad to hear of your progress,
Daniel
( the slowest Fs17 build on the board )

Daniel...Think I'm going to have to challenge you on this one!!!!!! hahahaha

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:01 pm**

Hi Steve,

Congrats on the new baby. Hope mom and baby doing well.

Sorry to hear about the problem with QF or other filler. I hope that every thing works out well soon and you are back to the build.

I am itching all over from sanding fiberglass that I had to remove when the join on the bottom panels did not come out right. Had a gap of 1/16" between panels.

Any way it's OK right now.

I am taking my time also. no hurry.

Bushmaster

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:08 pm**

I don't think Steve's baby has shown up yet - got a while to go I think

Posted: **Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:22 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:I don't think Steve's baby has shown up yet - got a while to go I think

1st week in March,so not long.still fairing quietly,starting to really come together now.some photos at the end of the week ,maybe.
Paul, I will call you at the end of this week or the start of next about paint & primer
Regards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:57 pm**

Any colors in mind??? You plan to use S3 correct? Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will look awesome, as the rest of your build has been impressive.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:23 pm**

Hi Lower, how goes it?Thanks for the complement

You are right S3 it is,for 2 reasons
1. It's water based so it should be safer than a solvent based paint
2. Paul McClure comes across as a nice guy,(he is the UK supplier).
As for colours, Mercer green for the sides & console, with some off white or tan for the inside & gunwale, not finally decided yet.The bottom I am leaning towards graphite & epoxy as the boat will be trailer launched & I like the look of it from some of the recent posts,bit worried about application tho'.Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet with the finish required

,so I am trying not to embarrass myself with crap fairing

If I ever manage to finish fairing that is,everything is conspiring against me laying a hand on the b***** hull
regards,
Steve

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:27 pm**

Paul McClure comes across as a nice guy,(he is the UK supplier).

Nah, I'm horrible really, I just speak nice to people willing to part with their money

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:48 pm**

Steve,

Paint in tomorrow or Monday (at last)

Cheers,

Paul.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:58 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:Steve,

Paint in tomorrow or Monday (at last)

Cheers,

Paul.

lovely............. I will phone on monday to spend this years bonus

Steve

Fairing is nearly over 8)Photo's soon

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:15 pm**

lovely............. I will phone on monday to spend this years bonus Shocked

How much do I wish you were a City trader?

How did you get on with the rest of the fairing? Any adverse reaction?

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